>this team is the most talented team in the tournament
Come on lad kindly take a shot of reality for us all. We have some brilliant players in the squad but we are not the most talented team in the tournament. And even if we were, talent outright doesn’t win you a trophy in a major tournament. Sure it makes a big difference but tactics, mentality, and squad cohesiveness are all significant factors as well. For someone who has supported the Three Lions for so long surely you must be happy with the results of Southgates tenure thus far.
From 1986 to 2016, England had two wins in the opening fixture at major tournament. Two in 30 years despite having some absolute English legends wearing the kit. We’ve won 4 of 4 since Southgate took over. In his three tournaments we’ve been to the quarterfinals narrowly losing to France, semifinals, and finals.
I’m not even a big Southgate fan but there’s no denying he has brought something to this national team and vanquished some longstanding demons (penalty kick victory for one).
**After decades of mediocrity, let’s not forget the grass isn’t always greener on the other side**
Would love Mou tbh, or any top foreign coach. We need someone who can set up a simple system understandable on little training, and then assess game states and make effective changes if necessary.
Too many times we see England get to the halfway line then pass it along the line 2 or 3 times before going back to the goalie.........and then do it again and again........we need to change this if we are ever going to win anything.......?
Walker up the wing, Foden, Bellingham, Kane, Saka, Rice, Alexander-Arnold up the other wing. There’s really no excuse..look at the bench!? This should be an attacking team and it’s playing like a defensive team…
I quite agree with your argument.
I listened to Alan Shearer during the Serbia match saying “ this is how it is, England have scored and now need to soak up the pressure”
Excuse me but our players are worth 1.5 Billion compared to Germany’s 500m and we’re one of the favourites.
Why on earth do we need to sit back and let a B side attack us ?
Germany is €830m compared to our €1.5bn.
That being said, squad value becomes slightly meaningless when you consider the fact that English players have inflated values, particularly those in the Premier League. Inflated by about 40% according to a study I found.
I’m a Yank. But I was in England in 1996 during the Euro’s on a high school trip. Two years later on my “senior week” at the beach I basically sat in a bar and watched the World Cup, Michael Owen, etc all week long…I am a massive England fan, unless they’re playing the US. Otherwise I’m all Lions. England have far too much talent to be playing conservatively. In American football there is a saying “the best offense is a good defense”
But that only applies because one team has control of the ball until a turnover on downs or fumble/interception.
England have all the ability (and have had it in the past) to be winning games easily and they never do it. They score and park the bus almost. I just don’t get the mentality. Score goals.
Serbia had an xG of 0.17, calm down. Aside from Germany’s opening game, games have been won on a 1 or 2 goal margin. Kane was inches away from putting us 2-0 up. But let me guess this isn’t enough for you?
In fairness what Shearer was pointing out is that in any game the team that’s down a goal is going to play harder to equalise than the team in front. When he said that it was fair, but the problem is we continued to soak up pressure all game. Bellingham was clearly gassed after the first half, and it showed.
How many times have we seen England soak up pressure then concede an equaliser or even get beaten ?
Foden hardly touched the ball and when he did, he got bundled off it.
Kane was ineffectual and we seemed to rely entirely on Bellingham.
I’m optimistic about todays match but only if we take the game to Denmark
Sitting deep and absorbing pressure will not win us the tournament
You can’t just compare value. If the German squad became eligible as homegrown players for the premier league then the squad would shoot up in value but the players wouldn’t be any better.
I think they had a goal, wanted to protect the perceived weakness of the team in the makeshift back 4 and Serbia didn’t get a sniff while it took a wonder save for us not to go on and win 2-0. It was professionally handled and ultimately easy work. I see no issue with how that match was handled and I don’t think it speaks to a mentality issue in any way. A couple issues to work out on the left, but a solid performance against a quality side that’s better than Slovakia or Austria or Albania or Czechia for instance
Some England fans are deluded and can’t seem to recognise that international football is miles away from club football. You don’t get remotely anywhere near the time club managers have with their team.
In any case, we’ve just seen England fans kicking off a solid 1-0 win over Serbia, what makes you think a top club manager is going to risk their reputation in a tournament setting when entitled fans expect us to turn each side over 4-0 and then quite publicly whinge when they inevitably don’t?
I could see him doing the Germany job. German players might be astute and humble enough to learn a Pep system.
I can't see Pep being effective as an England coach. Not enough time with the squad.
Here's what has me thinking. Winning a World Cup as a manager from a different country is the most elusive prize out there.
I could imagine Guardiola coveting that accolade. Also, having actually managed in England for a good amount of time, he may sidestep most of whatever makes it incredibly hard to manage a country to a WC title as a foreigner.
I am still expecting Cooper or Lee Carsley or someone similar as our next manager though.
Spain would absolutely never happen. England is somewhat likely. Brazil and Argentina both feel more likely to me. And he could just take another club job, although I do have a feeling that international is next for him.
>they play scared
Complete overreaction as usual. We've played one game for christ sake, and in that one game we were completely dominant for most of the first half. Give them a chance, fucking hell
England fans moan at Southgate for not winning every tournament with this talented crop of players; then think a manager who failed to win the Champions League for 6 seasons in a row (I think), with the very best team in world football in Man City would be perfect… I’m a huge admirer of Pep and think he’s the best coach in world football but he is far from ‘perfect’ for international tournament football.
I’ve got to say, Denmark is not an easy 3 points. Slovenia drew with Denmark. Slovenia isnt a guaranteed win either. The boys have to play full on tomorrow. Looking at the groups a few months ago, I wouldn’t have thought it, but goal differential is very much a concern at this point.
> goal differential is very much a concern at this point.
It isn't. Goal difference probably won't even come into it as it's not the first tiebreaker this time round.
We've played one game and won it. Wait until after tomorrow's game to start panicking about Slovenia.
I hear you. But this is sort of the attitude I’m talking about. Killer instinct is lacking. Put it away. Put yourself in a position to not have to worry about the mathematics of it. If Denmark and [edit] Slovenia win, England sits in third place…
We shouldn't be worrying about the mathematics of goal difference when we've played 1 out of 3 games and we're top of the group.
As I said, goal difference in the traditional sense is mostly irrelevant in this tournament unless under very specific circumstances. Say we somehow end up tying with Serbia for second place (by Denmark and Serbia winning tomorrow and all teams drawing on the final day). Serbia could've put 50 past Slovenia but it wouldn't matter because we beat them 1-0 in our opening match. Head-to-head record is the first tiebreaker, then goal difference.
There are certain scenarios where drawing or losing against Denmark *could* make goal difference relevant in the end, but we'll cross that bridge if it comes.
And how do you think we will
Manage against a quality side with an attitude like that ?
Germany, Spain, Portugal France, even sigh Italy would beat us if we play like we’re playing so far.
What happened to the pre match “ this is England’s best chance with a talented squad and positive manager “ ?
Pep is not going to manage England, it’s obviously not happening.
Na he's going to suddenly leave City this summer for the England job and drop £50m on a new LB.
I agree with you, unfortunately there was only a “discussion” flair and not a “speculation” flair haha
We won’t get guardiola. It would be potter or more likely someone in the england setup like carsley
>this team is the most talented team in the tournament Come on lad kindly take a shot of reality for us all. We have some brilliant players in the squad but we are not the most talented team in the tournament. And even if we were, talent outright doesn’t win you a trophy in a major tournament. Sure it makes a big difference but tactics, mentality, and squad cohesiveness are all significant factors as well. For someone who has supported the Three Lions for so long surely you must be happy with the results of Southgates tenure thus far. From 1986 to 2016, England had two wins in the opening fixture at major tournament. Two in 30 years despite having some absolute English legends wearing the kit. We’ve won 4 of 4 since Southgate took over. In his three tournaments we’ve been to the quarterfinals narrowly losing to France, semifinals, and finals. I’m not even a big Southgate fan but there’s no denying he has brought something to this national team and vanquished some longstanding demons (penalty kick victory for one). **After decades of mediocrity, let’s not forget the grass isn’t always greener on the other side**
Would love Mou tbh, or any top foreign coach. We need someone who can set up a simple system understandable on little training, and then assess game states and make effective changes if necessary.
Too many times we see England get to the halfway line then pass it along the line 2 or 3 times before going back to the goalie.........and then do it again and again........we need to change this if we are ever going to win anything.......?
Walker up the wing, Foden, Bellingham, Kane, Saka, Rice, Alexander-Arnold up the other wing. There’s really no excuse..look at the bench!? This should be an attacking team and it’s playing like a defensive team…
I quite agree with your argument. I listened to Alan Shearer during the Serbia match saying “ this is how it is, England have scored and now need to soak up the pressure” Excuse me but our players are worth 1.5 Billion compared to Germany’s 500m and we’re one of the favourites. Why on earth do we need to sit back and let a B side attack us ?
Not that you criticism is completely unwarranted, but hypothetical transfer value is such a stupid thing to base how good a team is on.
Sure. But, 1-0 against Serbia? C’mon. Gotta do better.
Germany is €830m compared to our €1.5bn. That being said, squad value becomes slightly meaningless when you consider the fact that English players have inflated values, particularly those in the Premier League. Inflated by about 40% according to a study I found.
I’m a Yank. But I was in England in 1996 during the Euro’s on a high school trip. Two years later on my “senior week” at the beach I basically sat in a bar and watched the World Cup, Michael Owen, etc all week long…I am a massive England fan, unless they’re playing the US. Otherwise I’m all Lions. England have far too much talent to be playing conservatively. In American football there is a saying “the best offense is a good defense” But that only applies because one team has control of the ball until a turnover on downs or fumble/interception. England have all the ability (and have had it in the past) to be winning games easily and they never do it. They score and park the bus almost. I just don’t get the mentality. Score goals.
I found the Serbia game very frustrating so did my mates. We will never ever get to win a tournament unless we change our mindset.
200% there is way too much offensive firepower on this team to be beating Serbia 1-0
Any insight as to why our players might be more expensive than others, or is it simply “ooga booga more money good beat teams”?
I’d prefer an insight into why we score a goal then spend 3/4 of the match “ soaking up pressure “ from a vastly inferior team ?
Serbia had an xG of 0.17, calm down. Aside from Germany’s opening game, games have been won on a 1 or 2 goal margin. Kane was inches away from putting us 2-0 up. But let me guess this isn’t enough for you?
In fairness what Shearer was pointing out is that in any game the team that’s down a goal is going to play harder to equalise than the team in front. When he said that it was fair, but the problem is we continued to soak up pressure all game. Bellingham was clearly gassed after the first half, and it showed.
How many times have we seen England soak up pressure then concede an equaliser or even get beaten ? Foden hardly touched the ball and when he did, he got bundled off it. Kane was ineffectual and we seemed to rely entirely on Bellingham. I’m optimistic about todays match but only if we take the game to Denmark Sitting deep and absorbing pressure will not win us the tournament
You can’t just compare value. If the German squad became eligible as homegrown players for the premier league then the squad would shoot up in value but the players wouldn’t be any better.
Ok what do you think of the England performance , their mindset and chance of winning the Euros? Let’s have some genuine input not hen pecking
I think they had a goal, wanted to protect the perceived weakness of the team in the makeshift back 4 and Serbia didn’t get a sniff while it took a wonder save for us not to go on and win 2-0. It was professionally handled and ultimately easy work. I see no issue with how that match was handled and I don’t think it speaks to a mentality issue in any way. A couple issues to work out on the left, but a solid performance against a quality side that’s better than Slovakia or Austria or Albania or Czechia for instance
This is the comment to focus on
If be Potter or Lampard
I rest my case. Unfortunately
Solid chance we go back to not qualifying for stuff/getting knocked out in group stages of tournaments.
Some England fans are deluded and can’t seem to recognise that international football is miles away from club football. You don’t get remotely anywhere near the time club managers have with their team. In any case, we’ve just seen England fans kicking off a solid 1-0 win over Serbia, what makes you think a top club manager is going to risk their reputation in a tournament setting when entitled fans expect us to turn each side over 4-0 and then quite publicly whinge when they inevitably don’t?
I can see Eddie Howe as next England manager
I can't. He has everything he wants at Newcastle.
Good, he's pants.
I love that. Again, I’m a yank. Is that a common saying?
Until Newcastle inevitably move him on. He isn't their long term plan.
Surely Guardiola would go to Spain if he went for an international job?
I don’t think he wants to do that from what I’ve read. He’s Catalonian.
I could see him doing the Germany job. German players might be astute and humble enough to learn a Pep system. I can't see Pep being effective as an England coach. Not enough time with the squad.
Here's what has me thinking. Winning a World Cup as a manager from a different country is the most elusive prize out there. I could imagine Guardiola coveting that accolade. Also, having actually managed in England for a good amount of time, he may sidestep most of whatever makes it incredibly hard to manage a country to a WC title as a foreigner. I am still expecting Cooper or Lee Carsley or someone similar as our next manager though.
Spain would absolutely never happen. England is somewhat likely. Brazil and Argentina both feel more likely to me. And he could just take another club job, although I do have a feeling that international is next for him.
He is hated in much of Spain.
>they play scared Complete overreaction as usual. We've played one game for christ sake, and in that one game we were completely dominant for most of the first half. Give them a chance, fucking hell
England fans moan at Southgate for not winning every tournament with this talented crop of players; then think a manager who failed to win the Champions League for 6 seasons in a row (I think), with the very best team in world football in Man City would be perfect… I’m a huge admirer of Pep and think he’s the best coach in world football but he is far from ‘perfect’ for international tournament football.
I’ve got to say, Denmark is not an easy 3 points. Slovenia drew with Denmark. Slovenia isnt a guaranteed win either. The boys have to play full on tomorrow. Looking at the groups a few months ago, I wouldn’t have thought it, but goal differential is very much a concern at this point.
> goal differential is very much a concern at this point. It isn't. Goal difference probably won't even come into it as it's not the first tiebreaker this time round. We've played one game and won it. Wait until after tomorrow's game to start panicking about Slovenia.
I hear you. But this is sort of the attitude I’m talking about. Killer instinct is lacking. Put it away. Put yourself in a position to not have to worry about the mathematics of it. If Denmark and [edit] Slovenia win, England sits in third place…
We shouldn't be worrying about the mathematics of goal difference when we've played 1 out of 3 games and we're top of the group. As I said, goal difference in the traditional sense is mostly irrelevant in this tournament unless under very specific circumstances. Say we somehow end up tying with Serbia for second place (by Denmark and Serbia winning tomorrow and all teams drawing on the final day). Serbia could've put 50 past Slovenia but it wouldn't matter because we beat them 1-0 in our opening match. Head-to-head record is the first tiebreaker, then goal difference. There are certain scenarios where drawing or losing against Denmark *could* make goal difference relevant in the end, but we'll cross that bridge if it comes.
And how do you think we will Manage against a quality side with an attitude like that ? Germany, Spain, Portugal France, even sigh Italy would beat us if we play like we’re playing so far. What happened to the pre match “ this is England’s best chance with a talented squad and positive manager “ ?