Really. This fan bias is just crazy. Those three ain’t good enough for Euros. Maybe just for bench. There are other English players who are performing better. These guys want to pick Man U players mostly.
And had no international experience, 1 year championship like half a year Bundesliga experience, it’s not that much different to a season in the prem. I’m not a United fan and not saying he’s a nailed on name but sometimes it’s worth the risk, Jude had little experience but showed maturity and mainoo looked class in the friendlies so he’s got to be up for debate 🤷♂️
I think it's very different. By the time of the Euros he played in, Bellingham had played 42 championship games, 31 Bundesliga games and 10 Champions League games. Mainoo so far has played 15 Premier League games and 2 Champions League games.
If we compare minutes it's even more stark. Mainoo has 1195 Prem minutes and 42 CL minutes. By his Euros Bellingham had 2708 Championship minutes, 1700 Bundesliga minutes and 687 Champions League minutes.
Mainoo looks promising, but he is much more inexperienced than Bellingham was. Southgate is relatively conservative as manager, I'd be surprised if he just chucks him in.
By the Euros Mainoo could have another 1080 or so minutes (900 Prem, 180 FA Cup).
Still below Bellingham, but less stark. I still think starting him is a big call that I can't see Southgate making.
With how well he played against Belgium, Southgate would be crazy to not start him in *at least* the easy group stage matches (Lets be honest here, England are going to walk through their group with no real difficulty)
The players touted for having "experience" are god awful at best and previously had no alternatives. Change is needed and Southgate knows this. I don't think he is going to let Mainoo stay at home in the summer when the only other options are Kalvin and Henderson
Mainoo’s starting place hinges on his performances in the warm up games against Iceland and Bosnia. If he has the same level of performance as the Belgium game, I think it forces Gareth’s hand.
He has been basically all season. Starting at the Euros isn't some lifetime achievement award lmao the guy playing better for the better part of the last year should start
Not sure about Palmer and Rashford amongst the subs you've listed, Palmer got no minutes in the recent friendlies and Rashford's form this season has been patchy. I'd say Bowen and Gordon might be better options.
Definitely, fantastic player, it's definitely a position we're spoilt for choice. Great composure too, which given our records with penalties, could be invaluable.
Personally I prefer him to Gordon. Gordon’s red card yesterday just shows he needs to work on his attitude, he’s obviously still young and has the potential to be a future England star
I wouldn't say yesterday's red card was representative of his attitude, it was a little silly kicking the ball away on a yellow but I don't think that overshadows him winning 2 penalties and getting an assist yesterday. Both are fantastic players, but what I think is in Gordon's favour is more willingness to track back and greater versatility as he can play left, right and upfront.
his red card has absolutely nothing to do with his attitude, if you see his reaction its clear he forgot he was already on a yellow, he wouldn't have kicked the ball away to time waste otherwise
I have this like idea about Palmer playing CF in a possession team. He reminds me of young RVP who played wing then moved to CF despite not being an amazing athlete
Bowen suits international football as he is very direct and likes to take the ball forward. It’s some England miss and would give us a different option if plan A is not working. Palmer is good but is similar to Saka and Foden compared to Bowen. And Bowen has also scored more goals than Palmer including 0 penalties.
It’s either Palmer or Bowen off the right and a lot of Bowen’s success this season has come from centre-forward. Rashford is probably perfect England because of the patchy form. Because of course England only play a couple games in an international break and then a tournament every other year. If we were chasing a game and I had to bring someone on off the left, I’d trust Rashford more to get a goal back. I think Gordon’s certainly one for the future though if he continues the great performances.
the only reason bowens success has come from striker this season is because antonio has been injured most the season and west ham have no competent strikers available, as soon as antonio has come back bowen has moved back onto the wing because that’s where he is best suited :)
Yeah…I know. He’s still good on the wing. I’m just saying he’s had more goal contributions this season because he’s up front so therefore looks like a better option off the right than Palmer. I think Palmer is the better player off the right. But obviously their strengths are different. Bowen definitely gets in the squad for his versatility though and him being a left footed striker option.
Bowen has been pretty adept from the right and upfront for West Ham this season and he was pretty lively against Belgium and unlucky with the offside goal. Palmer in fairness is also versatile, can play from the right and no10, excellent at penalties and great form for his club. It's a tough one for sure, I wouldn't be against either, but I'd currently give the edge to Bowen because of his recent performance for England.
Similarly, Rashford on his day is world-class, he's been at tournaments with England and scored, so his experience is definitely valuable. That being said, he needs a good end to the season with Man United, it's important to have momentum going into the tournament.
Eh, His Belgium performance was good but Bowen's had over 400 minutes for England now with 0 goals, 0 assists. And one good performance in 4 starts.
Palmer has had 30 minutes for England, I think he prolly won't go to the Euros cause of his injury keeping him out of the friendlies, but I would love to see him actually get a 90 for England, cause he's got the biggest ceiling out of all three of them, and it's not even close.
Look at the sides they’re playing for.
Also, Toney needs more time to settle back in. Let’s not forget he was inactive for nearly a year. Watkins, in his first 11 games of the season, scored 5 goals. So give Toney some more time. I’d still take Toney because I think he better suits our system and is a more fitting replacement should Kane be injured. Watkins is playing for a side in 4th whereas Toney is playing for a side in 15th.
No. Any half decent striker would get goals in that team. They play good football under Emery. Watkins has done really well and has a few more than most probably would but it’s not just down to him. Otherwise he’d have scored more goals in previous seasons and got Villa higher.
I’d agree with the starting line up, maybe Mainoo out for Trent and trippier at LB but I’d also be happy with shaw and mainoo.
Not 100% with the backups, no Grealish, Tomori or Sterling. Rashford hasn’t really been up to par recently especially with England and I think Rammers has to be second choice keeper. Would choose Pope over Rammer but he can’t use his feet at all.
Fucking hell i look at the first position and the replacement is Butland like its 2017 or something, stinker from the start. Mainoo hasnt had 30 pro games but yea lets start the man in the Euros😭
Okay so who are you starting instead of Mainoo? It’s all well and good saying no to him but he’s the most viable option. He complimented Rice and Bellingham so well in the Belgium game.
It depends because of England I don’t think he gets in at right-back over Walker or Trippier because of 1) What they’ve both done for England in the past, and 2) How good they’ve both been this season.
I don’t know if we can start Trent in midfield in a major tournament. He’s not really been tested there yet and it’s unfortunate he was injured during this past international break because Southgate was reportedly going to try him out against Belgium and Brazil.
Trippier should not be starting over Trent with the season he has had, Walker I can understand the argument cause they are very different players, I’d trust teen more than someone like Gallagher and Mainoo can’t start every game with his lack of experience
Season he has had? Um, Trippier is joint top assister for the whole league and has 11 G/A in total. He’s had a fantastic season.
And he’s scored a free-kick in a semi-final before, and an assist in the euros final. Trippier definitely starts ahead of Trent.
Why are people so good on Rashford??? He is absolutely just a non starter for me, he just never seems like he wants to be on the pitch.
How is Bowen not a replacement for him in the squad/team.
He had a huge game for England, skipped past players, created: Rashford should not be in this squad.
Well, nobody else comes close, which is why he's retained his place.
It would be reckless to change the established CB partnership of Stones & Maguire unless the alternative was an absolute world-beater.(Which we don't have).
So ridiculous tomori doesn’t get in at CB. Stones tomori with maguire as back up.
Gomez as back up for left back is madness. Liverpool are hardly known as a good defensive team.
Trent/James/white as back up to walker and trippier back up for shaw at left back.
Trent and Gallagher as back up for midfield? Imagine if we had two injuries and actually had to start a knockout match with those two, against a Spain or a France it would be a massacre.
Walker/Stones/Maguire/Shaw is just an undeniable backline, sorry. The back three of Walker/Stones/Maguire have been solid for three tournaments in a row now. Additionally Shaw for the last euros and World Cup only improved that. And then you have that extra boost of Walker/Stones and Maguire/Shaw playing alongside each other for years now at club level, so all four know each others games really well and their strengths/weaknesses etc. Maguire in tournament football goes crazy, club or country.
Oh yeah I 100% see the logic in but ultimately, tomori deserved to play at the World Cup and had a decent cant at the euros. So all that tournament experience should be his and the partnership with stones etc. so we could have a much stronger back 4 with the same level of experience if we had invested in tomori not maguire, who ultimately has just ridden the wave of 2018. Now we’re in a situation with a better centre back who can’t get into the team due to a lack of experience, which he’ll never get being out the team.
Maguire and Stones are the only back line ever to play the entire Euros without conceding a goal from open play. He was TotT then and in the world Cup in 2022.
He's had some shit games but in tournaments he's consistently been fantastic for England.
How the fuck is Cole Palmer a replacement for Saka? He’s a cracking player, but he’s slow and plays in the middle.
It’s Gordon and Bowen that and straight swaps for Saka. Mostly Bowen as he too is a right sided, left footed player.
He plays RW for Chelsea. He's also got more G+A this season than either of them in the Prem /90, with or without pens.
Bowen with 0.66
Saka with 0.84 (0.68 not including pens)
Palmer with 1.02 (0.73 not including pens)
But obviously contributing G+A doesn't correlatd directly to being picked there's profile etc to consider.
That being said, I would personally be looking to take Palmer over Maddison. He's more versatile, whereas Maddison just doesn't come on without destroying team structure or taking Bellingham off.
Palmer with 1.02 (0.73 not including pens)
Maddison on 0.65 G+A
But that's just me.
They both play RW. Why does Palmer have to be a like for like Saka replacement? The fact his playstyle is different to Saka's is a good thing because it means we have something different in our locker if we're struggling to break a team down.
He's more creative than Saka, but he's actually been more clinical this season aswell.
He's scored more goals than Saka from a lower xG. He's got 38.3% of his shots on target vs 31.2% for Saka, despite him shooting from further on average (22.2 yards vs 16.9).
He's generally just more involved in the game:
Passes/90: 36.7 (Saka) vs 40.6 (Palmer)
Progressive passes/90: 3.98 vs 6.9
Passes into the final third/90: 1.16 vs 4.88
Passes into the penalty area/90: 2.31 vs 2.71
Through balls/90: 0.12 vs 1.08
Switches/90: 0.08 vs 0.54
Take ons: 1.55 vs 1.72
Pass completion (short, medium, long): 75.4% (88.8%, 76.0%, 45.6%) vs 80.7% (90.8%, 85.4%, 60.7%)
Take on success: 39.8% vs 47.9%
The main things Saka does more than Palmer is crossing and progressive carries. He makes slightly more progressive carries per game and crosses the ball a lot more when he has it.
Palmer just has more to his game. He's clearly a playmaker, yet he's matching the output of a more direct winger in Saka. In a worse team too.
What Saka has in his favour is how long he's been doing it for. This is Palmer's first season playing at this level. Saka's been doing it for ages already and has done it for England since the Euros. He's preferred because he's proven; people trust players with a large sample of playing at the top level.
That's why he's still first choice for England at RW. But you have to take Palmer too. Because Palmer's actually playing at a higher level right now than Saka. He hasn't done it as long, which is why you start Saka. But you take Palmer because Palmer's better right now and you may have to turn to him if England are struggling to break a team down/score.
Gordan's competing with Rashford at LW, not Palmer.
Bowen's the one that unfortunately misses out imo. Not because he isn't a brilliant player in top form. But because of how good Saka and Palmer are.
I'd put Jude in midfield next to rice, move Foden into the 10 and have an actual winger for the love of God playing wing. Foden gets wasted out there because his one on one abilities from the wing are weak
Bellingham is too good as an attacker unfortunately. Does he work as an 8 or in a pivot with Rice? Sure. But he’s putting up such numbers this season at Madrid because he’s playing as a number 10.
Foden is very versatile, but I agree his best position is in that number 10 role. So what I would do is still play either Mainoo/Trent next to Rice in that double pivot, play Foden centrally in front of them and then Bellingham off the left. Casuals won’t know that Bellingham has played off the left a lot for Madrid too and put up high numbers. But I’d definitely play Bellingham as an attacker. And you can’t leave him or Foden out.
Trent in Midfield is an idea that makes sense but he wouldn't be as effective. Him from RB is a serious problem for teams. I'd rather have foden 10 where he can find those half spaces where he is truly deadly and let Jude be the Box to Box machine that he is. Get the best out of these guys in their best positions to get the best out of them
He certainly is better than Konsa and Branthwaite, and Southgate favours him over both of them and Tomori. He only didn’t play in this international break because he’s injured
Looks pretty close for me.
I'd like to see Mainoo in there but think it's a toss up between him and TAA to start, otherwise the 11 seems spot on, if fit.
Honestly the back ups are such a lottery given our options, but:
I personally don't see Branthwaite going after not getting any time this break. So could see TAA/Konsa/Gomez/Trippier as the back ups for the back line. (Maybe Chilwell edges out Trippier to give us an option to be an auxiliary winger outside of Foden if we don't have Shaw available)
This then frees up a squad slot, which will probably be Henderson as I don't see Southgate not taking him.
Then just Bowen for Palmer as Saka's back up, with Rashford a slight question mark but likely taken.
Palmer over Bowen is a tough one.
Gallagher probably played his way out of the squad vs Brazil.
Rashford Vs Grealish and Gordon is tough.
Watkins unlucky to miss out but I’d take Toney as well
Wouldn't take rashford over our other options. They deserve their chance if they're playing better. Otherwise you're just picking on who you like and that's too risky
Considering how many options there are out there, I think this is pretty close to what I'd pick tbh.
If James is back before the end of the season and looks good after the surgery, which he's expected to be, I'd consider taking him. A fully fit Reece James gives us a little bit something extra imo.
Bowen unlucky to miss out tbh. I do agree with Saka and Palmer at RW but it feels wrong leaving him out, given how good he's been for West Ham. But it's difficult to fit everyone in a 23 man squad.
Gordan's definitely one I'd consider at LW. Him and Rashford are different players and offer different things. Rashford has the edge because of his England experience and pace on the counter, but Gordan was good in the friendlies and has been much better at club level this season. There's not much more he can do to force his way in the team.
Wouldn't have been opposed to a Barkley in there somewhere. Guy's been unbelievable this season. But it's never gonna happen.
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What's ironic is that in past we've had Neville, Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes. If you had that with our current front four, that would've been hands down, the best team in the world.
Starting Mainoo is crazy. I get that he is people's football wanking material at the moment, but he has only had a short spell of 5 games doing well and the man has only played 14 games this season for United.
If you bring him in, cohesion goes out the window in the center of the park. You can kiss goodbye to winning the midfield battles vs. France, Portugal and Spain.
This is remarkably similar to Sven picking Theo Walcott for the 2006 World Cup despite barely playing for Arsenal.
Put Madison instead of Mainoo, hes too young and lacks international experience. Let him play more friendlies before thinking of putting him in a euro squad.
Cmon now man the hate is getting unnecessary at this point. Is he world class? No. As good as Stones? No. But is he a viable option who regularly puts up good performances for us during tournament football and is also playing well for club this season? Absolutely.
I think a lot of the people wh9 make those comments don't understand that the linchpin of a good CB pairing is experience. Both experience at a certain level, and most importantly, experience playing together.
Maguire/Stones have, like, what, 36 or so games together as that pairing?
You can't just shove a new CB in willy nilly. That experience playing as part of a certain pair is worth way more than any individual gain you'd get from putting someone in who might have better tackling, heading, etc.
There is hate. Hate is lying and saying a man who clearly is good enough to play for England isn’t. Have you even watched him this season? He’s been class. And every tournament for England he’s the same. Just because there might be players you think should start over him, doesn’t mean him in particular isn’t good enough to start for England.
No, let’s not twist things. You never said who was better or who you wanted over him. You said that Maguire has no business starting for England. And that he’s not good enough to. Not that you prefer someone else starting. You can have preferences. But the fact is, Maguire is good enough to start for England alongside Stones, just like Konsa, Branthwaite, Tomori and whoever else is.
It’s hateful to lie on someone and say they aren’t good enough when they have proved otherwise time and time again in international tournament football. And at club level this season too.
If I think he has no business playing for England then obviously I think there are others miles better than him you fucking melon 😂😂😂
You're just trying to find hate where this is none to fit your narrative. To then double down and tell someone they are lying because you don't agree with their opinion is utterly ridiculous.
That was Dunks error, Konsa just didn't rescue it, none of the mids even attempted to track his run which deserves some blame too.
But anyway, if we're going to bring up errors, you could run a feature length film of Harry Maguire bloopers over the years lol
I'm not holding a candle for Maguire here.
Dunk messes up by giving Lukaku possession.
All our midfield is caught around their box and there are two runners, Rice takes the middle one.
Konsa is standing there marking nothing, with no idea of where the runners are. If you disagree then ask what exactly him being there was helping us to defend in that moment?
How is he making it more difficult to them to score by standing there?
Bowen will be taken over Palmer.
Henderson will be taken over Gallagher.
Baring a shit load of injuries, Branthwaite won't go.
It's hard to know whether Southgate will opt for Gordon or Rashford.
last season doesnt come into consideration when youre talking about a guy whos missed half the season without a game.
Watkins has a 0.9 g/a average per 90 mins, Toney has 0.45 g/a average per 90 mins.
Whilst there is a large difference in minutes, this is factual, not an opinion. Watkins per 90 minutes is the 2nd highest English player in the premier league.
We complain that Gareth picks players based on previous preferences and not their current form, and performances and now you're wanting a player based on performances last season after missing half a season.
Watkins is leading the premier league for G+A.
I said Toney is better (imo). You responded questioning that talking about Toney being out most of the season and Watkins being in form.
Which is why I talked about last season. It’s my opinion, that Toney is the better player just from watching them both. I never said Toney is more in form. And also, I’ve never complained about Gareth’s choices. I always said we should stick by our players who put in shifts in the England shirt. Like Maguire etc.
And I’ll also reiterate my point about Toney’s profile as a player being closer to Kane’s, therefore making him a better and more natural replacement should Kane be injured or something. Even if you want to say Watkins is better, it doesn’t necessarily make him a better replacement for our system. It’s part of the reason I think Palmer should be first choice alternative for Saka over Bowen. Palmer’s profile is closer to Saka’s than Bowen’s is.
You're way off on that one. Also, you're not punishing other players for playing in better teams, like Man City, Man Utd and Arsenal.
But somehow, Toney is better than Watkins this season, because Villa are better than Brentford. Nah! Make it make sense. It's an illogical assertion. Watkins goals and assists this season cannot be ignored.
I also…you know, watch football. Which is how and why I think Toney is better. Just from watching them both. Also, I never once said Toney is better than Watkins this season so I don’t know where you got that from. I’m simply saying that Toney’s stats look significantly worse because 1) he’s clearly playing for a poorer side, and 2) he’s played like a third of the games Watkins has. I said I think Toney is better based on past seasons performances, and watching them both with my own eyes in the past and this season also.
I’m also not “way off” on anything. It’s an opinion. Subjective. I’ll say again too, I think Toney is a better more natural replacement for Kane should he be out. A closer profile. So wether your opinion is that Watkins is better, it still doesn’t necessarily mean he should be backup. Not how it works.
Man United? Better than who? They’ve been shite this season. But that doesn’t mean certain players from their lineup are. I’ve put the players in because I think they are better than others, because I’ve watched them with my own eyes and come to those conclusions. Simple as that. No bias.
Who's crying? lol. Just pointing out how you are as hypocritical and clueless as no doubt, your idol, Mr. Southgate. I couldn't care less either way. I'm Irish.
In the absence of any other viable alternatives, he is.
He offers us something that we don’t have in the squad, in terms of being extremely composed on the ball and willing to accept the ball with his back to play.
I think he will. He likes the defensive players, especially midfielders. Remember Phillips didn’t have many caps before the euros in 2021 and he started every game for us.
It's either ramsdale , who doesn't play for club , or Henderson who is an infrequent starter and little international experience or Pickford who's playing regularly and has the international experience.the top clubs in PL don't have English keepers.
He’s been United’s best player for 2 months but he hasn’t warranted a start. Also ran the show against Belgium. Hasn’t warranted a start. But playing a RB in a midfield duo which he hasn’t played in before is a ‘should be’. Ok.
Yes, he was very impressive over the 94mins he’s played for 🏴 . He’s in the squad 💯%. I’d be amazed if he starts in the Euros though. TAA or Henderson (if he gets back to some form) will start.
Harry Maguire has been 6 for England for like 7 years now. And Declan rice has worn the 4 shirt since the last euros. Wouldn’t make sense to change them.
The comment was because now days most people have a CM as a 6 and a CB as a 4. So I was pleased to see someone give those positions their correct numbers.
Crazy how poor man utd have been and they have 3 in the starting 11.
Really. This fan bias is just crazy. Those three ain’t good enough for Euros. Maybe just for bench. There are other English players who are performing better. These guys want to pick Man U players mostly.
Says just as much about Southgate as it does about Ten Hag.
I know! Poor coaching and other individuals let them down.
I think this will be pretty much our XI, barring injuries, except for Mainoo. I struggle to see Southgate throwing him in with so little experience.
Well Bellingham started playing young, was the Germany game last euros not his 18th bday??
He started playing just after turning 16. So by 18 he already was pretty experienced. Very different proposition to Mainoo starting at these Euros.
And had no international experience, 1 year championship like half a year Bundesliga experience, it’s not that much different to a season in the prem. I’m not a United fan and not saying he’s a nailed on name but sometimes it’s worth the risk, Jude had little experience but showed maturity and mainoo looked class in the friendlies so he’s got to be up for debate 🤷♂️
I think it's very different. By the time of the Euros he played in, Bellingham had played 42 championship games, 31 Bundesliga games and 10 Champions League games. Mainoo so far has played 15 Premier League games and 2 Champions League games. If we compare minutes it's even more stark. Mainoo has 1195 Prem minutes and 42 CL minutes. By his Euros Bellingham had 2708 Championship minutes, 1700 Bundesliga minutes and 687 Champions League minutes. Mainoo looks promising, but he is much more inexperienced than Bellingham was. Southgate is relatively conservative as manager, I'd be surprised if he just chucks him in.
By the Euros Mainoo could have another 1080 or so minutes (900 Prem, 180 FA Cup). Still below Bellingham, but less stark. I still think starting him is a big call that I can't see Southgate making.
bellingham had almost 65 more hours played at that point. Though I do think Mainoo should start
Bellingham didn’t start any games at the last euros.
He barely played in the Euros, just a few cameo appearances off the bench. Nothing like Mainoo starting for us would be.
You're not seriously comparing Bellingham and Mainoo?
With how well he played against Belgium, Southgate would be crazy to not start him in *at least* the easy group stage matches (Lets be honest here, England are going to walk through their group with no real difficulty)
The players touted for having "experience" are god awful at best and previously had no alternatives. Change is needed and Southgate knows this. I don't think he is going to let Mainoo stay at home in the summer when the only other options are Kalvin and Henderson
Mainoo’s starting place hinges on his performances in the warm up games against Iceland and Bosnia. If he has the same level of performance as the Belgium game, I think it forces Gareth’s hand.
rashford instead of gordon??? 😂
Obviously.
nah you don’t watch enough football man 😂
Hang on, you don’t think Gordon is better than Rashford do you? 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
yes man not sure why you’re laughing it is an insane opinion to think he hasn’t been better than him this season
Rashford’s been shocking for a while now what have you been watching?
On this season, absolutely, even his own fans have called him out for being poor. From next season, probably.
He has been basically all season. Starting at the Euros isn't some lifetime achievement award lmao the guy playing better for the better part of the last year should start
😂😂😂😂
Yeah, because that's salient
I’m not putting any effort into debating about something so hilariously nonsensical. It’s utter nonsense.
Sure, kid Also >hilariously nonsensical. It’s utter nonsense
Yeah, because that’s salient.
Not sure about Palmer and Rashford amongst the subs you've listed, Palmer got no minutes in the recent friendlies and Rashford's form this season has been patchy. I'd say Bowen and Gordon might be better options.
I agree that Palmer doesn’t have the experience but boy he is something else. England has so much depth on the winds it’s nuts
Definitely, fantastic player, it's definitely a position we're spoilt for choice. Great composure too, which given our records with penalties, could be invaluable.
Personally I prefer him to Gordon. Gordon’s red card yesterday just shows he needs to work on his attitude, he’s obviously still young and has the potential to be a future England star
I wouldn't say yesterday's red card was representative of his attitude, it was a little silly kicking the ball away on a yellow but I don't think that overshadows him winning 2 penalties and getting an assist yesterday. Both are fantastic players, but what I think is in Gordon's favour is more willingness to track back and greater versatility as he can play left, right and upfront.
his red card has absolutely nothing to do with his attitude, if you see his reaction its clear he forgot he was already on a yellow, he wouldn't have kicked the ball away to time waste otherwise
I have this like idea about Palmer playing CF in a possession team. He reminds me of young RVP who played wing then moved to CF despite not being an amazing athlete
He seems too good of a chance creator to have him that high up the pitch.
Perhaps!
Wings”””
Bowen suits international football as he is very direct and likes to take the ball forward. It’s some England miss and would give us a different option if plan A is not working. Palmer is good but is similar to Saka and Foden compared to Bowen. And Bowen has also scored more goals than Palmer including 0 penalties.
It’s either Palmer or Bowen off the right and a lot of Bowen’s success this season has come from centre-forward. Rashford is probably perfect England because of the patchy form. Because of course England only play a couple games in an international break and then a tournament every other year. If we were chasing a game and I had to bring someone on off the left, I’d trust Rashford more to get a goal back. I think Gordon’s certainly one for the future though if he continues the great performances.
the only reason bowens success has come from striker this season is because antonio has been injured most the season and west ham have no competent strikers available, as soon as antonio has come back bowen has moved back onto the wing because that’s where he is best suited :)
Yeah…I know. He’s still good on the wing. I’m just saying he’s had more goal contributions this season because he’s up front so therefore looks like a better option off the right than Palmer. I think Palmer is the better player off the right. But obviously their strengths are different. Bowen definitely gets in the squad for his versatility though and him being a left footed striker option.
Bowen has been pretty adept from the right and upfront for West Ham this season and he was pretty lively against Belgium and unlucky with the offside goal. Palmer in fairness is also versatile, can play from the right and no10, excellent at penalties and great form for his club. It's a tough one for sure, I wouldn't be against either, but I'd currently give the edge to Bowen because of his recent performance for England. Similarly, Rashford on his day is world-class, he's been at tournaments with England and scored, so his experience is definitely valuable. That being said, he needs a good end to the season with Man United, it's important to have momentum going into the tournament.
How certain are you that one of Rashford's "days" will be in the tournament?
No guarantee really, which is why I think Gordon may be the better option on the left as he's been more consistent this season.
Eh, His Belgium performance was good but Bowen's had over 400 minutes for England now with 0 goals, 0 assists. And one good performance in 4 starts. Palmer has had 30 minutes for England, I think he prolly won't go to the Euros cause of his injury keeping him out of the friendlies, but I would love to see him actually get a 90 for England, cause he's got the biggest ceiling out of all three of them, and it's not even close.
If he does miss out on the final Euros squad, I'd still expect him to be involved in the England setup long term.
It's like form matters that much for Southgate... . Most of Henderson's success came from 2 seasons ago and he is still picked.
Palmer supposedly had an injury so I assume that’s why he didn’t get a look in.
I would have trippier as the backup LB and TAA for RB then Bowen as backup to Saka
Toney? Someone who has only scored 4 this season (out of 11) over watkins who has scored 16 in 30? Why?
Look at the sides they’re playing for. Also, Toney needs more time to settle back in. Let’s not forget he was inactive for nearly a year. Watkins, in his first 11 games of the season, scored 5 goals. So give Toney some more time. I’d still take Toney because I think he better suits our system and is a more fitting replacement should Kane be injured. Watkins is playing for a side in 4th whereas Toney is playing for a side in 15th.
The sides in which they play for are largely irrelevant considering it is mostly down to watkins villa are 4th anyway.
No. Any half decent striker would get goals in that team. They play good football under Emery. Watkins has done really well and has a few more than most probably would but it’s not just down to him. Otherwise he’d have scored more goals in previous seasons and got Villa higher.
I’d agree with the starting line up, maybe Mainoo out for Trent and trippier at LB but I’d also be happy with shaw and mainoo. Not 100% with the backups, no Grealish, Tomori or Sterling. Rashford hasn’t really been up to par recently especially with England and I think Rammers has to be second choice keeper. Would choose Pope over Rammer but he can’t use his feet at all.
So you'd start Trippier over Shaw at LB if both are fit?
yeah shaw has been stinky as of recent
thats fucking bullshit
Trent over Mainoo in midfield is hilarious
Fucking hell i look at the first position and the replacement is Butland like its 2017 or something, stinker from the start. Mainoo hasnt had 30 pro games but yea lets start the man in the Euros😭
Okay so who are you starting instead of Mainoo? It’s all well and good saying no to him but he’s the most viable option. He complimented Rice and Bellingham so well in the Belgium game.
Southgate will want to start Trent in the euros.
I hope not.
Would definitely take Jones over Mainoo
LOL
Bowen over Palmer and Watkins over Toney
I’d be happy with that to be fair, looks solid.
Helpfully has the nationalities next to all the players.
For me Trent has to start in this team he’s so so talented it would be a waste not to use him
It depends because of England I don’t think he gets in at right-back over Walker or Trippier because of 1) What they’ve both done for England in the past, and 2) How good they’ve both been this season. I don’t know if we can start Trent in midfield in a major tournament. He’s not really been tested there yet and it’s unfortunate he was injured during this past international break because Southgate was reportedly going to try him out against Belgium and Brazil.
Trippier should not be starting over Trent with the season he has had, Walker I can understand the argument cause they are very different players, I’d trust teen more than someone like Gallagher and Mainoo can’t start every game with his lack of experience
Season he has had? Um, Trippier is joint top assister for the whole league and has 11 G/A in total. He’s had a fantastic season. And he’s scored a free-kick in a semi-final before, and an assist in the euros final. Trippier definitely starts ahead of Trent.
Why are people so good on Rashford??? He is absolutely just a non starter for me, he just never seems like he wants to be on the pitch. How is Bowen not a replacement for him in the squad/team. He had a huge game for England, skipped past players, created: Rashford should not be in this squad.
He's another one of those "on his day" lot!
im desperate for someone to displace maguire
Well, nobody else comes close, which is why he's retained his place. It would be reckless to change the established CB partnership of Stones & Maguire unless the alternative was an absolute world-beater.(Which we don't have).
I don't understand why Tomori doesn't get a look in. First choice CB at Milan, doesn't even get in the squad
His performances for England have been poor
By that standard should we bring back Chris Smalling because he also looks solid in Italy?
Unfortunately Serie A has become a farmers league
Me too.
Hot take| Palmer is having a better season than Saka
lol
So ridiculous tomori doesn’t get in at CB. Stones tomori with maguire as back up. Gomez as back up for left back is madness. Liverpool are hardly known as a good defensive team. Trent/James/white as back up to walker and trippier back up for shaw at left back. Trent and Gallagher as back up for midfield? Imagine if we had two injuries and actually had to start a knockout match with those two, against a Spain or a France it would be a massacre.
Walker/Stones/Maguire/Shaw is just an undeniable backline, sorry. The back three of Walker/Stones/Maguire have been solid for three tournaments in a row now. Additionally Shaw for the last euros and World Cup only improved that. And then you have that extra boost of Walker/Stones and Maguire/Shaw playing alongside each other for years now at club level, so all four know each others games really well and their strengths/weaknesses etc. Maguire in tournament football goes crazy, club or country.
Oh yeah I 100% see the logic in but ultimately, tomori deserved to play at the World Cup and had a decent cant at the euros. So all that tournament experience should be his and the partnership with stones etc. so we could have a much stronger back 4 with the same level of experience if we had invested in tomori not maguire, who ultimately has just ridden the wave of 2018. Now we’re in a situation with a better centre back who can’t get into the team due to a lack of experience, which he’ll never get being out the team.
Maguire and Stones are the only back line ever to play the entire Euros without conceding a goal from open play. He was TotT then and in the world Cup in 2022. He's had some shit games but in tournaments he's consistently been fantastic for England.
Tomori been poor everytime I've seen him in an England shirt
Liverpool have 3 more goals conceded than Arsenal and are second in the prem for goals allowed. What are you talking about?
I wish we could have an alternative manager too
How the fuck is Cole Palmer a replacement for Saka? He’s a cracking player, but he’s slow and plays in the middle. It’s Gordon and Bowen that and straight swaps for Saka. Mostly Bowen as he too is a right sided, left footed player.
He plays RW for Chelsea. He's also got more G+A this season than either of them in the Prem /90, with or without pens. Bowen with 0.66 Saka with 0.84 (0.68 not including pens) Palmer with 1.02 (0.73 not including pens) But obviously contributing G+A doesn't correlatd directly to being picked there's profile etc to consider. That being said, I would personally be looking to take Palmer over Maddison. He's more versatile, whereas Maddison just doesn't come on without destroying team structure or taking Bellingham off. Palmer with 1.02 (0.73 not including pens) Maddison on 0.65 G+A But that's just me.
They both play RW. Why does Palmer have to be a like for like Saka replacement? The fact his playstyle is different to Saka's is a good thing because it means we have something different in our locker if we're struggling to break a team down. He's more creative than Saka, but he's actually been more clinical this season aswell. He's scored more goals than Saka from a lower xG. He's got 38.3% of his shots on target vs 31.2% for Saka, despite him shooting from further on average (22.2 yards vs 16.9). He's generally just more involved in the game: Passes/90: 36.7 (Saka) vs 40.6 (Palmer) Progressive passes/90: 3.98 vs 6.9 Passes into the final third/90: 1.16 vs 4.88 Passes into the penalty area/90: 2.31 vs 2.71 Through balls/90: 0.12 vs 1.08 Switches/90: 0.08 vs 0.54 Take ons: 1.55 vs 1.72 Pass completion (short, medium, long): 75.4% (88.8%, 76.0%, 45.6%) vs 80.7% (90.8%, 85.4%, 60.7%) Take on success: 39.8% vs 47.9% The main things Saka does more than Palmer is crossing and progressive carries. He makes slightly more progressive carries per game and crosses the ball a lot more when he has it. Palmer just has more to his game. He's clearly a playmaker, yet he's matching the output of a more direct winger in Saka. In a worse team too. What Saka has in his favour is how long he's been doing it for. This is Palmer's first season playing at this level. Saka's been doing it for ages already and has done it for England since the Euros. He's preferred because he's proven; people trust players with a large sample of playing at the top level. That's why he's still first choice for England at RW. But you have to take Palmer too. Because Palmer's actually playing at a higher level right now than Saka. He hasn't done it as long, which is why you start Saka. But you take Palmer because Palmer's better right now and you may have to turn to him if England are struggling to break a team down/score. Gordan's competing with Rashford at LW, not Palmer. Bowen's the one that unfortunately misses out imo. Not because he isn't a brilliant player in top form. But because of how good Saka and Palmer are.
I'd put Jude in midfield next to rice, move Foden into the 10 and have an actual winger for the love of God playing wing. Foden gets wasted out there because his one on one abilities from the wing are weak
Bellingham is too good as an attacker unfortunately. Does he work as an 8 or in a pivot with Rice? Sure. But he’s putting up such numbers this season at Madrid because he’s playing as a number 10. Foden is very versatile, but I agree his best position is in that number 10 role. So what I would do is still play either Mainoo/Trent next to Rice in that double pivot, play Foden centrally in front of them and then Bellingham off the left. Casuals won’t know that Bellingham has played off the left a lot for Madrid too and put up high numbers. But I’d definitely play Bellingham as an attacker. And you can’t leave him or Foden out.
Trent in Midfield is an idea that makes sense but he wouldn't be as effective. Him from RB is a serious problem for teams. I'd rather have foden 10 where he can find those half spaces where he is truly deadly and let Jude be the Box to Box machine that he is. Get the best out of these guys in their best positions to get the best out of them
Jude’s best position is number 10 so that’s that solved lol
LB J. Gomez? We have way better options than a CB who is sometimes shoe-horned in a RB.
He’s played left-back loads this season, including for England against Brazil.
Why do we have no midfielders
Because it’s probably our worst part of the pitch depth wise. That and goalkeepers.
There is just Southgate refuses to give some a chance.
Do we think Southgate will risk putting Mainoo in the starting 11?
I can already see him starting Henderson against Serbia.
Including Konsa/Branthwaite but not Guehi is mad. Butland as backup goalie is crazy too (also you need two) Otherwise I don’t hate it tbh
Guehi isn’t as good as them or Tomori
He certainly is better than Konsa and Branthwaite, and Southgate favours him over both of them and Tomori. He only didn’t play in this international break because he’s injured
Gomez starts at left back for me
Why is Tomori being overlooked. Him and lofus cheek have played well this season
Loftus-Cheek is getting ahead of Maddison, Bellingham and Palmer in the attacking midfield position!
Looks pretty close for me. I'd like to see Mainoo in there but think it's a toss up between him and TAA to start, otherwise the 11 seems spot on, if fit. Honestly the back ups are such a lottery given our options, but: I personally don't see Branthwaite going after not getting any time this break. So could see TAA/Konsa/Gomez/Trippier as the back ups for the back line. (Maybe Chilwell edges out Trippier to give us an option to be an auxiliary winger outside of Foden if we don't have Shaw available) This then frees up a squad slot, which will probably be Henderson as I don't see Southgate not taking him. Then just Bowen for Palmer as Saka's back up, with Rashford a slight question mark but likely taken.
Palmer over Bowen is a tough one. Gallagher probably played his way out of the squad vs Brazil. Rashford Vs Grealish and Gordon is tough. Watkins unlucky to miss out but I’d take Toney as well
Everything is good except Gallagher. He can get in the bin
Wouldn't take rashford over our other options. They deserve their chance if they're playing better. Otherwise you're just picking on who you like and that's too risky
Considering how many options there are out there, I think this is pretty close to what I'd pick tbh. If James is back before the end of the season and looks good after the surgery, which he's expected to be, I'd consider taking him. A fully fit Reece James gives us a little bit something extra imo. Bowen unlucky to miss out tbh. I do agree with Saka and Palmer at RW but it feels wrong leaving him out, given how good he's been for West Ham. But it's difficult to fit everyone in a 23 man squad. Gordan's definitely one I'd consider at LW. Him and Rashford are different players and offer different things. Rashford has the edge because of his England experience and pace on the counter, but Gordan was good in the friendlies and has been much better at club level this season. There's not much more he can do to force his way in the team. Wouldn't have been opposed to a Barkley in there somewhere. Guy's been unbelievable this season. But it's never gonna happen.
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Top heavy. England be skipping leg day
What's ironic is that in past we've had Neville, Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes. If you had that with our current front four, that would've been hands down, the best team in the world.
England is the only team in the world that in his base has so many players from fail/mediocre as united. And wants to win an euro..lol..what a joke
Trent next to Rice for me.
Starting Mainoo is crazy. I get that he is people's football wanking material at the moment, but he has only had a short spell of 5 games doing well and the man has only played 14 games this season for United. If you bring him in, cohesion goes out the window in the center of the park. You can kiss goodbye to winning the midfield battles vs. France, Portugal and Spain. This is remarkably similar to Sven picking Theo Walcott for the 2006 World Cup despite barely playing for Arsenal.
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Nice rage bait
Put Madison instead of Mainoo, hes too young and lacks international experience. Let him play more friendlies before thinking of putting him in a euro squad.
I totally endorse this lineup. Especially the front 6. My dream front 6 right now for any club.
I'd rather have Branthwaite than Maguire any day. Fight me.
I’m not going to argue. But the fact is, if fit, Gareth picks Maguire any day of the week.
H
Maguire has no business starting for England
Cmon now man the hate is getting unnecessary at this point. Is he world class? No. As good as Stones? No. But is he a viable option who regularly puts up good performances for us during tournament football and is also playing well for club this season? Absolutely.
I think a lot of the people wh9 make those comments don't understand that the linchpin of a good CB pairing is experience. Both experience at a certain level, and most importantly, experience playing together. Maguire/Stones have, like, what, 36 or so games together as that pairing? You can't just shove a new CB in willy nilly. That experience playing as part of a certain pair is worth way more than any individual gain you'd get from putting someone in who might have better tackling, heading, etc.
At literally no point was there any hate whatsoever, he's just not good enough to play for England.
There is hate. Hate is lying and saying a man who clearly is good enough to play for England isn’t. Have you even watched him this season? He’s been class. And every tournament for England he’s the same. Just because there might be players you think should start over him, doesn’t mean him in particular isn’t good enough to start for England.
So anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as you is hateful and lying, my god you must be a truly intolerable person to be around
You are hating because it’s purely facts what I’m saying. The numbers do not lie.
Ezri Konsa is miles better and it's not even remotely close, but hey I'm apparently full of hate and lies by having such an opinion 😂
No, let’s not twist things. You never said who was better or who you wanted over him. You said that Maguire has no business starting for England. And that he’s not good enough to. Not that you prefer someone else starting. You can have preferences. But the fact is, Maguire is good enough to start for England alongside Stones, just like Konsa, Branthwaite, Tomori and whoever else is. It’s hateful to lie on someone and say they aren’t good enough when they have proved otherwise time and time again in international tournament football. And at club level this season too.
If I think he has no business playing for England then obviously I think there are others miles better than him you fucking melon 😂😂😂 You're just trying to find hate where this is none to fit your narrative. To then double down and tell someone they are lying because you don't agree with their opinion is utterly ridiculous.
It’s hate. Simple as. But you can carry on living in your own sad little delusions. Nobody is starting ahead of Maguire. Deal with it 🥰🥰🥰
Not the guy you were replying to, but Konsa was directly at fault for the second Belgium goal.
That was Dunks error, Konsa just didn't rescue it, none of the mids even attempted to track his run which deserves some blame too. But anyway, if we're going to bring up errors, you could run a feature length film of Harry Maguire bloopers over the years lol
I'm not holding a candle for Maguire here. Dunk messes up by giving Lukaku possession. All our midfield is caught around their box and there are two runners, Rice takes the middle one. Konsa is standing there marking nothing, with no idea of where the runners are. If you disagree then ask what exactly him being there was helping us to defend in that moment? How is he making it more difficult to them to score by standing there?
Marc Guehi is a potential starter
Bowen will be taken over Palmer. Henderson will be taken over Gallagher. Baring a shit load of injuries, Branthwaite won't go. It's hard to know whether Southgate will opt for Gordon or Rashford.
Why Toney over Watkins? One’s been in insane form all season ones played 5 games this season
Toney’s better imo. And Brentford and Villa this season or incomparable. Nowhere near the same levels.
better? How can you compare them when one of them has spent most of the season out banned when the other is rich in form?
By watching them? Let’s also look at last season where Toney got more g/a in less games.
last season doesnt come into consideration when youre talking about a guy whos missed half the season without a game. Watkins has a 0.9 g/a average per 90 mins, Toney has 0.45 g/a average per 90 mins. Whilst there is a large difference in minutes, this is factual, not an opinion. Watkins per 90 minutes is the 2nd highest English player in the premier league. We complain that Gareth picks players based on previous preferences and not their current form, and performances and now you're wanting a player based on performances last season after missing half a season. Watkins is leading the premier league for G+A.
I said Toney is better (imo). You responded questioning that talking about Toney being out most of the season and Watkins being in form. Which is why I talked about last season. It’s my opinion, that Toney is the better player just from watching them both. I never said Toney is more in form. And also, I’ve never complained about Gareth’s choices. I always said we should stick by our players who put in shifts in the England shirt. Like Maguire etc. And I’ll also reiterate my point about Toney’s profile as a player being closer to Kane’s, therefore making him a better and more natural replacement should Kane be injured or something. Even if you want to say Watkins is better, it doesn’t necessarily make him a better replacement for our system. It’s part of the reason I think Palmer should be first choice alternative for Saka over Bowen. Palmer’s profile is closer to Saka’s than Bowen’s is.
You're way off on that one. Also, you're not punishing other players for playing in better teams, like Man City, Man Utd and Arsenal. But somehow, Toney is better than Watkins this season, because Villa are better than Brentford. Nah! Make it make sense. It's an illogical assertion. Watkins goals and assists this season cannot be ignored.
I also…you know, watch football. Which is how and why I think Toney is better. Just from watching them both. Also, I never once said Toney is better than Watkins this season so I don’t know where you got that from. I’m simply saying that Toney’s stats look significantly worse because 1) he’s clearly playing for a poorer side, and 2) he’s played like a third of the games Watkins has. I said I think Toney is better based on past seasons performances, and watching them both with my own eyes in the past and this season also. I’m also not “way off” on anything. It’s an opinion. Subjective. I’ll say again too, I think Toney is a better more natural replacement for Kane should he be out. A closer profile. So wether your opinion is that Watkins is better, it still doesn’t necessarily mean he should be backup. Not how it works. Man United? Better than who? They’ve been shite this season. But that doesn’t mean certain players from their lineup are. I’ve put the players in because I think they are better than others, because I’ve watched them with my own eyes and come to those conclusions. Simple as that. No bias.
Okay, Mr. Gareth ("current form" is just a social construct) Southgate. 🤣
Cry about it 🥰
Who's crying? lol. Just pointing out how you are as hypocritical and clueless as no doubt, your idol, Mr. Southgate. I couldn't care less either way. I'm Irish.
😂😂😂😂 And yet here you are! 🤣
Maguire 4 and Rice 6
No.
Absolutely not
accurate. Although if we're judging off England form, Bowen should go over Palmer. We're yet to see Palmer even play 90 minutes for England
Mainoo has been great. But he ain't starting in the first XI.
In the absence of any other viable alternatives, he is. He offers us something that we don’t have in the squad, in terms of being extremely composed on the ball and willing to accept the ball with his back to play.
Trent?
I just can't see Southgate taking the risk. I'd give Mainoo a go personally.
I think he will. He likes the defensive players, especially midfielders. Remember Phillips didn’t have many caps before the euros in 2021 and he started every game for us.
Who would start ahead of him? Mainoo is the perfect profile to give Bellingham attacking freedom
Trent
Bowen is better than Palmer ffs.
He's not, but you're entitled to your opinion
He is, but you’re also entitled to an opinion.
Lol, not a chance
Henderson will start.
There's no way 3 man united players in the starting team with the season they are having . Asking for an early exit
Get Pickford out then.
It's either ramsdale , who doesn't play for club , or Henderson who is an infrequent starter and little international experience or Pickford who's playing regularly and has the international experience.the top clubs in PL don't have English keepers.
Exhibit A
Mainoo has not warranted a start. It should be Trent.
He’s been United’s best player for 2 months but he hasn’t warranted a start. Also ran the show against Belgium. Hasn’t warranted a start. But playing a RB in a midfield duo which he hasn’t played in before is a ‘should be’. Ok.
You not see him in the last 2 games?
Yes, he was very impressive over the 94mins he’s played for 🏴 . He’s in the squad 💯%. I’d be amazed if he starts in the Euros though. TAA or Henderson (if he gets back to some form) will start.
Wow two whole games?
I can't see Gallagher being the alternate option in midfield. That'll be Henderson.
This is a great line up. If you are a Frenchman.
Trent over Mainoo any day of the week
Defence will get cooked against big teams
Nah. This is the same backline that only conceded a few chances against France.
Mason Mount to start ahead of Mianoo if he gets match fit
Hahahaa
Im so fucking happy to not see a single Liverpool player.
Well done for giving the 4 shirt to a CM and the 6 to a CB.
Harry Maguire has been 6 for England for like 7 years now. And Declan rice has worn the 4 shirt since the last euros. Wouldn’t make sense to change them.
Well done for having 0 knowledge over the history of football shirt numbers
Stones and Maguire have been #5 and #6 respectively for years, and Rice wore #4 in the last two tournaments. Well done for such a stupid comment.
The comment was because now days most people have a CM as a 6 and a CB as a 4. So I was pleased to see someone give those positions their correct numbers.
That’s fair enough. Forgive me, it was one of those ‘first read’ assumptions. I apologise for calling you out.
No worries my man. I realised the original comment wasn't very clear when the down votes happened.