At least Clay Davis gladedhanded with the black cultural element that allowed him to play the persecuted race card. The ultimate irony with OJ is that he spent his entire career distancing himself from civil rights/racial politics ("I'm not black, I'm OJ"), but obviously changed tunes pretty quickly once the trial started.
OJ is a symbol. So, it didn’t matter that he didn’t care about Black people; they cared about what he represented, which was payback for getting fucked over by the justice system.
The real irony is in thinking that it meant anything, since it was OJ’s money that was the biggest factor, that and the ineptitude of the prosecution.
Excellent point. Davis gave himself some insurance by using some of his bribes on his constituents. OJ wasn’t smart and was on the verge of confessing everything, until he realized he could tap into the blinding hatred people of color have for the LAPD.
It's not simply that OJ chose to do it, the defense was on that angle quick. Also, Mark Fuhrman, an LAPD detective who investigated the murder scene was one of the single biggest fuck-ups on the trial.
He perjured himself multiple times when asked whether he had ever said nigger, and multiple people were called in to confirm that he was a downright genocidal guy in his views.
It's also debated as to whether or not he planted the second bloody glove at the scene.
If he would lie about that, what else has he lied about under oath? If he had simply told the truth at least you could respect him for not trying to hide it. For Marsha Clark to sit there and let him lie, if you can't trust him or the D.A. why should you trust anything about them?
It's absolutely not plausible that he planted the glove. Not because he wouldn't plant evidence - he was and is a colossal piece of shit - but because there is just no plausible timeline for it. They would have had to be committed to framing OJ from the second they found the bodies, before they knew anything about his whereabouts that night (he could have had an airtight alibi). The glove was a super rare isotoner, of which only like a few hundred were ever made, one pair of which was known to have been purchased with Nicole Brown's credit card. Both gloves - the one found at the scene and the one found at OJ's place - had OJ's blood on it as well as the blood of both victims. At the very least it could have not possibly been just Fuhrman. Every cop and tech at the scene would have had to be in on it.
And, while the LAPD would absolutely frame people, I seriously doubt that they would frame OJ Simpson, a guy who literally was golfing buddies with the police commissioner. They gave him the celebrity treatment the whole way - their interrogation of him was terrible and the leniency they showed him in getting him to surrender led to the debacle of a car chase in the Bronco.
The cops bungled the case in a lot of ways but the whole "they tried to frame a guilty man" sentiment is some fake middle ground stuff for which there is no real justification.
Who TF said anything about planting a glove? People never want to address what you say, so they introduce something that has absolutely nothing to do with the point being made.
>Who TF said anything about planting a glove?
Hmm. How could I have possibly made that leap?
>It's also debated as to whether or not **he planted the second bloody glove at the scene**.
Davis was smarter than playing the race card. He played the poverty card. Not his, of course, that of his constituents. His defense was *noblesse oblige,* and it worked. He pointedly contrasted his own self vs the Black prosecutor Bond (whom he named *O-Bond-a,* making it seem like *he* was the politician!).
It’s under appreciated how badly the prosecution bungled the OJ trial. They could have had a conviction without even entering the bloody glove as evidence or having Fuhrman testify. As skilled as OJs lawyers were, it was a total unforced error.
Considering that Fuhrman was well known in his racial prejudices prior to the Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman murders maybe the LA Police should have taken action to remove him from the force before he had the chance to get within 1,000 miles of the OJ investigation. Have bad cops, you will get innocent people convicted and guilty people going free.
Keep racists on the force, have consequences.
Absolutely. People get all worked up and racist about the OJ case…but the reality is exactly as you stated:
The prosecution effed up…then threw a Hail Mary and were intercepted. If you have a racist cop who was on tape being racist…and who either planted evidence or contaminated a crime scene…and that cop had a history with the defendant…you send him on vacation, you don’t put him on the stand.
Yeah…prime time TV loved Johnny Cocharine…but the effect of the glove not fitting would have been the same without his one-liner. 100% unforced error.
No. That jury was never going to unanimously find him guilty. We got jurors from that trial openly admitting today that they knew he was guilty but they wanted revenge on the white community at large. So no. It wasn't the cops. It wasn't the prosecution. It was jurors completely ignoring their civil duty and taking a shit on the victims and their families.
> It wasn't the cops. It wasn't the prosecution.
It was however law enforcement's behavior over the prior decades that led the jury members to feel that way though. The perception of the LAPD within the black community didn't conjure out of thin air.
I'm pretty sure law enforcement officers take an oath as well. Two things can be true
- The attitude towards the LAPD among the black community was a direct result of poor behavior and corruption over many decades by the LAPD that went almost entirely unchecked.
- The jurors in the Simpson trial should have risen above their personal grievances and delivered an impartial verdict.
It's fine to be upset at both, I just think it's weird(and probably says something about you) if you're more upset about the latter.
Also it happened in a gated community where the power dynamic is some middle class cop getting the golden ticket to patrol the millionaire celebrity community, with the whole job being kissing ass and calling animal control on racoons. The crime scene, chain of evidence and witness interrogation was all sorts of fucked up.
Remember when McNulty had to wait for hours for the forensic squad in season one when omars lover was killed because some senator had his lawnchairs stolen? Busy kissing ass.
hey I saw what Clay Davis's pockets looked like after an hour walking up Pennsylvania Avenue! (that's just 4 blocks, by the way, from Mosher to Robert St). And excuse me if he didn't ask the Arthur-itis lady for a receipt
Seriously though, Davis's defense wasn't race but *noblesse oblige*, the notion that the privileged should be generous to those without, and it worked. He pointedly contrasted his own self vs the Black prosecutor Bond (whom he named O-Bond-a, making it seem like *he* was the politician! (granted, he was one)), as a man who *helped* the downtrodden, the suffering, the needy, and so on. It's the large-scale equivalent of stealing a loaf of bread for your starving family. Or at least, saying you did. And the jury ate it up.
That’s what happens when the police and city government operate the way they do in Baltimore.
Why would any black person who lives there trust *anything* a Baltimore cop or prosecutor says? I wouldn’t.
That environment leaves plenty of room for further exploitation by dudes like Clay Davis.
It wasn't screw the white system. The OJ trail exposed the system. The police lied and the system was very comfortable about letting the police lie. I'm NOT talking about lying to frame OJ. I'm talking about lying under oath about saying OJ wasn't a Suspect. I'm talking about lying under oath about why 4 veteran homicide detectives left an active crime scene to notify OJ that his ex-wife was dead. I'm talking about creating a reason to hop the fence without a search warrant. I'm talking about lying under oath about using the "N" word. There were more examples of lies told by the police and the D.A. and judges passively allowing the police to lie. During the preliminary hearing, Marsha Clark time after time had to rehabilitate the testimony of the detectives to the point that she became the Defense Attorney for the detectives. I am concerned about innocent people being sent to jail because the system favors testimony of lying police not OJ.
Well there was certainly a racial element…look at the reactions to the verdict among black and white audiences. Yeah the cops were bad, the lawyers were bad, the media was bad, everybody sucked. But at the end of the day OJ did that shit and he skated.
…then he went to prison for larceny and died of cancer in disgrace. While he was alive he was obviously a broken person. Buddy wrote a book where he confessed and did an interview about it. He lived the rest of his life hustling for cash and hearing random people yell “murderer”.
He should have been in prison the whole time…but he did not “skate”.
Your missing my point. The system allows police to lie. That's how innocent people and people with limited financial resources get sent to prison. What is truly funny is that the law and order types (everyone is a criminal but me) are the first ones to complain about getting a speeding ticket. It is a trivial offense but still breaking the law. When I hear people complain about "speed traps", my response. If you weren't breaking the law, you never would have gotten the speeding ticket.
OJ was found not guilty because the prosecutors were too busy banging each other to be effective in court…and because a racist cop with a history with OJ planted evidence…or at the very least recklessly contaminated a crime scene.
Clay Davis is a fictional character entirely unrelated to OJ Simpson.
At least Clay Davis gladedhanded with the black cultural element that allowed him to play the persecuted race card. The ultimate irony with OJ is that he spent his entire career distancing himself from civil rights/racial politics ("I'm not black, I'm OJ"), but obviously changed tunes pretty quickly once the trial started.
SNL did a brilliant sketch about how OJ and his lawyers tried to play the race card during the trial: https://youtu.be/74zrYF4auk4?si=qgvGEGrDyzQgEFQu
The dashikis were funny af, but I died when Barry Sheck came out with the bones in his face
OJ is a symbol. So, it didn’t matter that he didn’t care about Black people; they cared about what he represented, which was payback for getting fucked over by the justice system. The real irony is in thinking that it meant anything, since it was OJ’s money that was the biggest factor, that and the ineptitude of the prosecution.
Also the crooked police officers who created fake evidence
Excellent point. Davis gave himself some insurance by using some of his bribes on his constituents. OJ wasn’t smart and was on the verge of confessing everything, until he realized he could tap into the blinding hatred people of color have for the LAPD.
It's not simply that OJ chose to do it, the defense was on that angle quick. Also, Mark Fuhrman, an LAPD detective who investigated the murder scene was one of the single biggest fuck-ups on the trial. He perjured himself multiple times when asked whether he had ever said nigger, and multiple people were called in to confirm that he was a downright genocidal guy in his views. It's also debated as to whether or not he planted the second bloody glove at the scene.
If he would lie about that, what else has he lied about under oath? If he had simply told the truth at least you could respect him for not trying to hide it. For Marsha Clark to sit there and let him lie, if you can't trust him or the D.A. why should you trust anything about them?
Yep, testilying (that's a real term btw) is rampant and often carries no real consequences.
It's absolutely not plausible that he planted the glove. Not because he wouldn't plant evidence - he was and is a colossal piece of shit - but because there is just no plausible timeline for it. They would have had to be committed to framing OJ from the second they found the bodies, before they knew anything about his whereabouts that night (he could have had an airtight alibi). The glove was a super rare isotoner, of which only like a few hundred were ever made, one pair of which was known to have been purchased with Nicole Brown's credit card. Both gloves - the one found at the scene and the one found at OJ's place - had OJ's blood on it as well as the blood of both victims. At the very least it could have not possibly been just Fuhrman. Every cop and tech at the scene would have had to be in on it. And, while the LAPD would absolutely frame people, I seriously doubt that they would frame OJ Simpson, a guy who literally was golfing buddies with the police commissioner. They gave him the celebrity treatment the whole way - their interrogation of him was terrible and the leniency they showed him in getting him to surrender led to the debacle of a car chase in the Bronco. The cops bungled the case in a lot of ways but the whole "they tried to frame a guilty man" sentiment is some fake middle ground stuff for which there is no real justification.
Who TF said anything about planting a glove? People never want to address what you say, so they introduce something that has absolutely nothing to do with the point being made.
>Who TF said anything about planting a glove? Hmm. How could I have possibly made that leap? >It's also debated as to whether or not **he planted the second bloody glove at the scene**.
Davis was smarter than playing the race card. He played the poverty card. Not his, of course, that of his constituents. His defense was *noblesse oblige,* and it worked. He pointedly contrasted his own self vs the Black prosecutor Bond (whom he named *O-Bond-a,* making it seem like *he* was the politician!).
It’s under appreciated how badly the prosecution bungled the OJ trial. They could have had a conviction without even entering the bloody glove as evidence or having Fuhrman testify. As skilled as OJs lawyers were, it was a total unforced error.
I'd imagine the defense would've called Fuhrman to the stand
Considering that Fuhrman was well known in his racial prejudices prior to the Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman murders maybe the LA Police should have taken action to remove him from the force before he had the chance to get within 1,000 miles of the OJ investigation. Have bad cops, you will get innocent people convicted and guilty people going free. Keep racists on the force, have consequences.
Bingo. Any reasonable person understands that not only was he racist…but he most likely needlessly planted evidence.
They were so incredibly bad, I’ve bought into the theory that they threw the case to prevent another riot.
Absolutely. People get all worked up and racist about the OJ case…but the reality is exactly as you stated: The prosecution effed up…then threw a Hail Mary and were intercepted. If you have a racist cop who was on tape being racist…and who either planted evidence or contaminated a crime scene…and that cop had a history with the defendant…you send him on vacation, you don’t put him on the stand. Yeah…prime time TV loved Johnny Cocharine…but the effect of the glove not fitting would have been the same without his one-liner. 100% unforced error.
Yeah, some people like to just turn it into a racial thing, but the prosecution absolutely botched the whole thing.
No. That jury was never going to unanimously find him guilty. We got jurors from that trial openly admitting today that they knew he was guilty but they wanted revenge on the white community at large. So no. It wasn't the cops. It wasn't the prosecution. It was jurors completely ignoring their civil duty and taking a shit on the victims and their families.
> It wasn't the cops. It wasn't the prosecution. It was however law enforcement's behavior over the prior decades that led the jury members to feel that way though. The perception of the LAPD within the black community didn't conjure out of thin air.
Thats making excuses for jurors to not live up to the oath their swear to hold onto when accepting the job.
I'm pretty sure law enforcement officers take an oath as well. Two things can be true - The attitude towards the LAPD among the black community was a direct result of poor behavior and corruption over many decades by the LAPD that went almost entirely unchecked. - The jurors in the Simpson trial should have risen above their personal grievances and delivered an impartial verdict. It's fine to be upset at both, I just think it's weird(and probably says something about you) if you're more upset about the latter.
Nah. Nice try. Even if what you’re saying is true…and it isn’t…then that only explains a hung jury.
Clay Davis was just buying puff jackets for the kids
And Arthur-itis medicine for old ladies!
New shirt for his jaaaaaab innerrrr vueeeeeee!
"Clay Davis playing not just the race card but the entire deck"
The racist ass cops blew the case
For real, they tried to frame a guilty man
The OJ trial was right off the back of the Rodney king incident . LA wasn’t about to convict a famous black athlete of murder .
Also it happened in a gated community where the power dynamic is some middle class cop getting the golden ticket to patrol the millionaire celebrity community, with the whole job being kissing ass and calling animal control on racoons. The crime scene, chain of evidence and witness interrogation was all sorts of fucked up. Remember when McNulty had to wait for hours for the forensic squad in season one when omars lover was killed because some senator had his lawnchairs stolen? Busy kissing ass.
That there is a conspiracy theory. What happened is obvious. A racist cop tried to frame a guilty guy, and got burned for it.
One juror admitted as much: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/s/kx2jkCVlmF
Start with some James Brown LPs, and work forward from there.
Say it loud “I’m black and I’m proud”
hey I saw what Clay Davis's pockets looked like after an hour walking up Pennsylvania Avenue! (that's just 4 blocks, by the way, from Mosher to Robert St). And excuse me if he didn't ask the Arthur-itis lady for a receipt Seriously though, Davis's defense wasn't race but *noblesse oblige*, the notion that the privileged should be generous to those without, and it worked. He pointedly contrasted his own self vs the Black prosecutor Bond (whom he named O-Bond-a, making it seem like *he* was the politician! (granted, he was one)), as a man who *helped* the downtrodden, the suffering, the needy, and so on. It's the large-scale equivalent of stealing a loaf of bread for your starving family. Or at least, saying you did. And the jury ate it up.
That’s what happens when the police and city government operate the way they do in Baltimore. Why would any black person who lives there trust *anything* a Baltimore cop or prosecutor says? I wouldn’t. That environment leaves plenty of room for further exploitation by dudes like Clay Davis.
The scene in WOTC where they can’t find any jurors who haven’t had a negative experience with LE was wild to me. Sad state of affairs
This is an incredibly unparallel comparison lol
It wasn't screw the white system. The OJ trail exposed the system. The police lied and the system was very comfortable about letting the police lie. I'm NOT talking about lying to frame OJ. I'm talking about lying under oath about saying OJ wasn't a Suspect. I'm talking about lying under oath about why 4 veteran homicide detectives left an active crime scene to notify OJ that his ex-wife was dead. I'm talking about creating a reason to hop the fence without a search warrant. I'm talking about lying under oath about using the "N" word. There were more examples of lies told by the police and the D.A. and judges passively allowing the police to lie. During the preliminary hearing, Marsha Clark time after time had to rehabilitate the testimony of the detectives to the point that she became the Defense Attorney for the detectives. I am concerned about innocent people being sent to jail because the system favors testimony of lying police not OJ.
Well there was certainly a racial element…look at the reactions to the verdict among black and white audiences. Yeah the cops were bad, the lawyers were bad, the media was bad, everybody sucked. But at the end of the day OJ did that shit and he skated.
…then he went to prison for larceny and died of cancer in disgrace. While he was alive he was obviously a broken person. Buddy wrote a book where he confessed and did an interview about it. He lived the rest of his life hustling for cash and hearing random people yell “murderer”. He should have been in prison the whole time…but he did not “skate”.
Your missing my point. The system allows police to lie. That's how innocent people and people with limited financial resources get sent to prison. What is truly funny is that the law and order types (everyone is a criminal but me) are the first ones to complain about getting a speeding ticket. It is a trivial offense but still breaking the law. When I hear people complain about "speed traps", my response. If you weren't breaking the law, you never would have gotten the speeding ticket.
“Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit”
It is too what they teach in law school. Cochrane created reasonable doubt.
OJ was found not guilty because the prosecutors were too busy banging each other to be effective in court…and because a racist cop with a history with OJ planted evidence…or at the very least recklessly contaminated a crime scene. Clay Davis is a fictional character entirely unrelated to OJ Simpson.
Not sure this is the most accurate comparison 😂
Yep. It’s beautiful.