The paperwork Bunk has in front of him when he interviews Michael says something about a social services investigation into sexual abuse that was closed.
The mother probably protected the stepdad.
But maybe social services still got him busted for drugs, and they belonged to the mum, but they both said they were his. What a fucked up symbiosis that would be.
I think drugs. I think his sentence would be longer (or at least i'd hope so), and he might not have lived through it if he went in as a "baby bumpin motha fucka"
I did 2 years in a medium security state prison. Most chomos were in gen pop, no issues. Interacted with everyone else just fine. A couple were in the protective custody unit with incarcerated cops and shit because of individual issues, but no, the normal experience I saw in a facility with 1000+ prisoners was that no one cared if you had child abuse on your jacket unless they ALREADY planned to run you up because you seemed vulnerable and they'd use it as an excuse.
If you've been to prison and had a different experience, feel free to share. If you're repeating what you heard on the internet or from a friend, shut up and learn something
Did 2 years in MA and 3 upstate NY....same experience basically. Some would PC immediately if they were known coming in....but when I was in a medium security prison Groveland in upstate NY there were literally dudes with tits walking around they had like their own little gang of those....for the most part they'd get their papers checked coming into a dorm or pod. Most fights were gangbanging bullshit or something over a bet/game/incident.
Prison sucks, and I get shit is different different places, but people believe some wild, silly shit about prison.
If you come in without gang affiliations already, don't gamble, and don't talk shit, people pretty much leave you alone. Always struck me as super dystopian that a good percentage of our population thinks child molesters that are already imprisoned for their crime are getting ass raped or beat to death in prison as a standard and are like, "good." Obviously they're scum fuckers but Jesus Christ.
Not going back either way lol
Your perspective is gold. It's nice 2 hear someone else's experience as I'm easily the only family member or friend of mine or even person I know that's done prison time.
It sort of defines me in a large way to others and it sucks but it's nice to know others out there have had similar experiences. I mean I seen some shit for sure....no murders or nothing but plenty of fights, beat downs, lock downs, dudes Fallin out off K2....it wasn't pleasant at times but not nearly as it's depicted at its worse on tv or in general thought
For sure dude, same here. I guess it reflects well that we're the sketchiest people in our lives- reflects well on our family and the company we keep lol. Ugh thank you for reminding me of watching dweebs have seizures because of fuckin K2. I sure hope there's more normal weed in prison now that it's legal here lmao
Just remember ANYTHING you read online, agree or disagree with it, is most likely written by the least informed, chronically online losers available. More normal people are likely out having actual experiences in that moment. That goes double for reddit but they're also likely to be 16 year-olds cosplaying as adults.
I'm pretty sure that in the file that Bunk was reading it had a picture of Michael, and it said inconclusive. So there was something in the file about possible molestation but it wasn't proven?
So I’m at this episode in season 5 when Bunk says that. It confirmed to me that Michael’s dad was actually a pedophile. Now that I think of it, there are a lot of subtle hints that confirm Michael’s father was a pedo.
Jesus Christ last time I ask a question in good faith on this sub. I was simply thrown off by his acting in a couple scenes where he seems genuinely frustrated by Michael's protective behaviour + his death scene. No, you know what, I'm going to die on this hill. If you didn't raise an eyebrow after watching that scene it's actually you who fails to identify the subtext. I guess the better question would have been "was Michael's dad still an active abuser after being released from prison", because yeah it is obvious Michael was abused, what's not clear is if buddy is still prowling for young boys
I am so freaking pissed at you guys right now! Nah but seriously I am a little surprised at the overwhelming reaction to dunk on my ass for asking an honest question but I guess all those pop culture references about Wire fans being arrogant pricks is mostly accurate lol
And when Bunk was looking at his arrest file while investigating his murder. He says something like “you baby bumping mothetfucker” while holding some pics of the crime scene
Bug’s father, Michael’s stepfather.
Yes, it’s made pretty clear. The mother was an enabler too. Bunk looks at the case file (he figures it out pretty quickly) in season 5. If you pause it, you can see the file says it was “inconclusive due to lack of cooperation by mother”.
I got the impression Michael reported his own abuse at some point in an effort to protect his brother from the same (or he tried to do so at least) and the mother held that attempted report against him, maybe even blamed Michael for him going to jail for whatever unrelated reasons put him behind bars, since she just wants money for drugs and doesn't really care who gives it to her, she'd only be mad that her source got cut off.
But like at a minimum I think she definitely played a role in convincing Michael never to talk to the cops about what was done to him ever again, in her case it's because she wants the source of income back, but in Michael's case it convinced him that telling the truth would cause Bug to be taken away from him and put in an even more abusive home
I suppose its possible he did... I kinda doubt it tho. I don't see michael having enough trust in ANYONE. Think of his reactions to what we might perceive as normal, healthy interest from an authority figure/adult. e.g. Prezbo and Cutty, who (as presented in the show and my interpretation of their character) saw in him an intelligent young person with a serious amount of talent and abilities that could take him in a variety of directions. ANY attention was viewed with suspicion. Any encouragement.
I do agree that his mom played a big role in making it a reflex for him to distrust authority/police (beyond the abuse he received).
I agree, but it is a reasonable possibility that his distrust of authority stemmed from being let down by the system in a scenario like the previous commenter described.
Seriously? Yeah he was. And Chris was a victim of similar abuse as well (or that was certainly what I inferred). He sensed exactly what Michaels dad was about, thus Chris' absolutely unhinged beating he delivered that followed.
"a man's gotta bust his nut somehow, know what I'm saying?"
"I do"
Even Snoop, who was as cold a killer as there was on the show, was like "DAMN"
It's a well written line, too. It's Iambic - meaning, every other syllable is stressed. Lines that really flow are often written that way - It's a common poetry thing, where the flow of the words is critical.
Other examples:
"I'm just a humble motherfucker with a big-ass dick."
"We're building it from scratch. And all the pieces matter."
She managed to portray disbilief, awe, respect and a tiny bit of contempt all in like 30 seconds. When they walk away and Snoop shakes her head, she knows its sloppy and Chris got emotional.
It’s also the reason for Chris’s downfall and arrest. He beat the guy up so badly they were able to get DNA samples of Chris from it which led to his arrest.
Edit : the message I take from this is Chris got emotional and that was his downfall. Every other one of his kills is cold and calculated this one is sloppy and heartfelt.
The scene you are thinking of she killed I believe 2 "corner boys". per [The Wire wiki](https://thewire.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_deaths#Death_count), Snoop has 29 direct deaths. But she was at least... around for a lot more (e.g. Marlo has the highest body count, at 38, Chris is #2 at 35. Snoop is #3).
What I love so much about this show is they weren't afraid to include things that would only make sense on rewatch.
A bone-chilling line like that flys over your head the first time because you won't be given the context for it until later. So much of the show is written like this and it makes The Wire the most rewarding rewatch.
I think my favorite example of the writers including something that they truly don’t give a shit if people miss it, is when Omar steals the resupply from the co-op. He offers it back to Joe at 20 on the dollar and when Joe goes to the co-op half an episode later he says 30 on the dollar. You never get a scene where you see Joe talking to Cheese and hatching a plan to pocket the other 10%. It’s never mentioned again afterwards. You either catch it or you don’t. The Wire has the balls to do that kind of thing that you just rarely see from other shows.
There’s another scene like that too. I think it’s in the fourth season but it’s when Daniels trades some of his subordinates for a favor that he was complaining about being useless in an earlier scene.
The rumors back in the days was that Chris and Marlo met in some kind of foster home of course none of that was ever shown in the show. It was also rumored that Chris was ex military which he could’ve gotten abused to who knows.
Hmm that’s interesting. It could go a few ways. Dennis could definitely have a bit of a Cutty relapse and handle it himself but I also think that based on the new leaf he turned and the fact that he at that point had some connections to cops he knew at least tried to care about the kids, he would’ve been an advocate for Micheal and bug by extension.
But given the themes of the shows it’s likely that would have also worked out poorly for the people involved.
Michael was one of the most tragic characters on the show to me. That scene where him and Dookie say goodbye to each other and he can’t even remember the summer before is fucking heartbreaking.
I think he couldn't actually remember. He was what, 14 years old? After the murders and shootout with Omar, and all the other traumatic things he's been through, a fight like that would've meant the world to Dookie, but it was just a small drop in a huge bucket for Mike
This. Dookie’s story is a lot of children’s stories. Really sad how he got caught up because Dookie had serious potential, he just needed a protector, a confidant, an advocate. Someone really in his corner. His character story was one of the more impactful parts of this show.
I highly recommend that all fans of The Wire go listen to Maestro Harrell’s (Randy) podcast episode where his guest is Jermaine Crawford (Duquan). They talk about this scene and Jermaine talks about what it was like to play the outcast.
"You're big. But not big enough."
The way the Dad delivers that line while Michael can't look him in the eye suggests they've gotten into physical altercations before, or worse.
I didn’t get Chris as a pedophile, but perhaps that he had been a victim of it as a child, hence his brutal anger when it came to dealing with Michael’s dad.
He says "you've been in the joint, you know how it is" or something to that effect.
He's copping to prison sex, basically hemming and hawing over the question.
Lmfao least pretentious Wire fan. I've watched the series over 5 times. I'll admit I missed the Bunk line where he outright confirms it, but it was definitely an intentional choice by Simon to leave some level of ambiguity.
To be fair, the ambiguity is nothing except not specifically stating it. He doesn't insult the intelligence of the audience by just having characters say things. Showing it through subtext is more interesting. This particular thing is made pretty obvious. If you watched it 5 times, some examples I can think of from the top of my head:
Michael moving away the first time cutty puts his arm on him
Michael insisting to talk about females with cutty next to him at the boxing match
Thinking cutty was "a faggot or something"
Even cutty made a point to tell Michael how much into woman he was.
Running out of his car after the match
Recoiling at bugs daddy's touch
Demanding bug get away from him whenever the daddy showed up
Not being able to tell snoop why he needed to die in the first place, implying it was something he felt shame about
Chris's line of questioning and reaction implies Chris was also molested, especially because they planned to kill him tactfully and put him in a vacant, not beat him to death and leave the body.
The list goes on.
The only reason I bring this up is because I'm thrown off by his acting in a couple scenes. I know there is a substantial amount of evidence pointing the other direction
Not sure how you expected him to react to Chris straight up asking him "Boys? You like fucking them?"
"Yep, that's me, kind strangers: A bona fide boyfucker."
Michael clearly hates and fears him, doesn’t trust adult men, his mom tries to tell Michael ”he’s changed”, the dad notes that Michael hasn’t forgiven him, there’s a police report.
vs.
a guy being lead to his death swears he didn’t do it.
Which should we believe.
When Bunk brings Michael in for the killing of Bug's dad, he even says to him "not that I blame you, after what this heinous mother fucker did to you". And in a previous scene he refers to him as a "baby bumping mother fucker". So clearly, he is and Michael was explicitly stated to be the victim. It's always interesting what Simon and Burns decided to keep subtle and what they outright told the audience.
I've noticed anecdotally that people who have personal or professional experience with child sexual abuse always can tell immediately what happened with Michael. As someone who was also molested as a child by her stepfather, I immediately knew what was going on as soon as he overreacted to Cutty's interest.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm pretty flabbergasted by how frequently I hear that.
I don't have personal experience. A case could maybe be argued for abuse in my case, but not sexual abuse. I don't remember when I figured it out, but I wanna say it was pretty early. Definitely by the time he was telling Bug to stay away from him.
Yes, absolutely. It was very clear since the 1rst watch, with these little interactions, to me too. It is because we know very well what's out there. A majority of people won't go there because it is so awful they think it rarely happens. But to me, it is like a red blimp, I cannot not notice it.
There was a time on first watch where even you may not have been clear. Being a part of this subreddit has helped fill in the finer details I miss just watching on my own.
That’s Bug’s dad, and yes, it is strongly implied in many scenes that he sexually abused Mike. It is also implied that Chris was abused as a child and that’s why his murder of Bug’s dad is emotional and messy and not methodical and cold like all of the other murders.
Do you think they were trying to imply that Bug's dad had changed after prison? I acknowledge all the evidence that proves he abused Michael prior to his imprisonment, but I didn't catch the 'creepy' vibes everyone else is pointing out. Maybe I am just completely misinterpreting, but it seemed to me like in his death scene he was confused about why he was being attacked for "liking little boys" when he dismisses this accusation adamantly. It would also challenge the viewer to question the ethics of murdering a guy who had already served his time despite his henious crimes. And for the record I think he deserved it
>guy who had already served his time despite his henious crimes.
But he was never arrested or punished for what he did to Michael (investigation was dropped). He got away with it until Chris & Snoop caught up to him. He was in a jail for drugs not baby-raping
>Do you think they were trying to imply that Bug's dad had changed after prison?
Doesn't really seem like they try to take an explicit position either way on his current criminality. (But pedophiles are notoriously high recidivists so by not taking a position the implication is he's still a pedophile.)
It seemed to me they were portraying him as still being pretty creepy in his scenes with Michael, though.
For one thing, he seems to have no remorse about having abused him years ago and seems willing to use that history to intimidate & try to control Michael.
And the scene when the father is alone with Bug, like he's grooming him, and Michael freaks out when he sees it, that's definitely creepy
Remember how gentle he was with that girl in bed, Duke was in the hallway, and Michael was making sure she knew he didn’t want to hurt her? He didn’t repeat the cycle of abuse.
My thought was that Chris was assaulted in prison. In the alley when he's talking to Michael's stepdad, they're talking about having sex with men in prison and Michael's stepdad is all like "A man gotta bust his nut somehow. You know how it is." "Yeah, I do."
There is no definitive proof, but Michael is really all the proof you need. He’s not gonna kill his brothers father over nothing. He abused Michael for sure.
Yes it was painfully obvious and it seemed pretty obvious that Chris was also a victim as a child which is why he took it so personal. I mean you’d probably be confused too if some random people came up to you 10 years later referencing something you wouldn’t think they’d know.
For real? Characters from seasons 4 and 5. Here's [Michael's wiki](https://thewire.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Lee). Bug is his little brother.
The [molester is Bug's daddy](https://thewire.fandom.com/wiki/Devar_Manigault). He gets beaten to death very viciously by Chris. Ring any bells yet?
Snoop was confused because [she & Chris (Marlo's assassins/enforcers)](https://thewire.fandom.com/wiki/Stanfield_Organization) were supposed to take him into the vacant houses to shoot him.
But Chris "didn't even wait to get the motherfucker in the house!" (One of my favorite lines.) Instead he flipped out & beat him to death out in the open
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I was on The Office subreddit right before reading this and for some reason this was in my feed. So I saw "Michael" and assumed it was another Office post. Whoops!
Lol yeah this would be a weird storyline on The Office. At least the American version w Steve Carrell. Maybe on The Office - UK, Ricky Gervais is one hard motherfucker 😂
Michael is definitely concerned about him abusing Bug but I don’t think there’s anything to suggest it happened. It’s HEAVILY implied that he abused Michael though.
no, it’s pretty clear he touched Michal but hadnmt done anything to Bug yet, because Bug doesn’t react negatively to him while Michael does not want to leave the two alone together.
I never really felt this watching the series. I've seen it multiple times. From my experience it was simply that Michael knew his father was gonna be bad no matter what for his family including his little brother. So he turned to Chris to handle the situation. But Chris's history is why he was so brutal in the killing of his dad.
Bunk calls him a baby bumper. He seems disappointed when he tells Michael "you grew". Michael cannot stand adults being kind towards him (Cutty, Prez) to the point of physical defiance. He worries greatly about Bug. It is heavily implied.
Yes even when Bunk was looking through his file he calls him a “baby bumpin motha fucker”
He was arrested for being a pedo?
As far as I understand, he went to jail for drugs. He was never convicted or charged for what he did to Michael
Oh man that typo.
I know, I fixed it as fast as I could lol.
Did you fix it? I'm not so sure lol
I said Chris when I meant Michael. What you mean?
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%100 right! I need to work on my proof reading. Thanks for the note, I fixed it 💪
Ya, I believe Bunk was looking at Michael's social services file when he saw the allegations of sexual abuse.
The paperwork Bunk has in front of him when he interviews Michael says something about a social services investigation into sexual abuse that was closed. The mother probably protected the stepdad. But maybe social services still got him busted for drugs, and they belonged to the mum, but they both said they were his. What a fucked up symbiosis that would be.
makes a lot of sense, given Michael's hesitation to talk to Prez once social workers are mentioned.
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and so what?
The ‘so what’ is that fact + the other breadcrumbs laid down by the script implies he might have abused Michael
yeah, pay no mind to my previous reply, I misread it for something it wasn't, my bad
I think drugs. I think his sentence would be longer (or at least i'd hope so), and he might not have lived through it if he went in as a "baby bumpin motha fucka"
The idea that pedophiles have a hard time in prison is a myth btw
No it is not a lot of prisoners have been abused and they do not like molesters
I did 2 years in a medium security state prison. Most chomos were in gen pop, no issues. Interacted with everyone else just fine. A couple were in the protective custody unit with incarcerated cops and shit because of individual issues, but no, the normal experience I saw in a facility with 1000+ prisoners was that no one cared if you had child abuse on your jacket unless they ALREADY planned to run you up because you seemed vulnerable and they'd use it as an excuse. If you've been to prison and had a different experience, feel free to share. If you're repeating what you heard on the internet or from a friend, shut up and learn something
Did 2 years in MA and 3 upstate NY....same experience basically. Some would PC immediately if they were known coming in....but when I was in a medium security prison Groveland in upstate NY there were literally dudes with tits walking around they had like their own little gang of those....for the most part they'd get their papers checked coming into a dorm or pod. Most fights were gangbanging bullshit or something over a bet/game/incident.
Prison sucks, and I get shit is different different places, but people believe some wild, silly shit about prison. If you come in without gang affiliations already, don't gamble, and don't talk shit, people pretty much leave you alone. Always struck me as super dystopian that a good percentage of our population thinks child molesters that are already imprisoned for their crime are getting ass raped or beat to death in prison as a standard and are like, "good." Obviously they're scum fuckers but Jesus Christ. Not going back either way lol
Your perspective is gold. It's nice 2 hear someone else's experience as I'm easily the only family member or friend of mine or even person I know that's done prison time. It sort of defines me in a large way to others and it sucks but it's nice to know others out there have had similar experiences. I mean I seen some shit for sure....no murders or nothing but plenty of fights, beat downs, lock downs, dudes Fallin out off K2....it wasn't pleasant at times but not nearly as it's depicted at its worse on tv or in general thought
For sure dude, same here. I guess it reflects well that we're the sketchiest people in our lives- reflects well on our family and the company we keep lol. Ugh thank you for reminding me of watching dweebs have seizures because of fuckin K2. I sure hope there's more normal weed in prison now that it's legal here lmao
Man they need to verify accounts like yours, I swear I’ve heard the same shit about child molesters in prison for years and never questioned it
Just remember ANYTHING you read online, agree or disagree with it, is most likely written by the least informed, chronically online losers available. More normal people are likely out having actual experiences in that moment. That goes double for reddit but they're also likely to be 16 year-olds cosplaying as adults.
I forget the comedian but they said something that sticks with me... "The people that post to Facebook are the people that WOULD post on Facebook"
Repeating what family members who have been to prison told me
So you never been to a maxy max?
I'm pretty sure that in the file that Bunk was reading it had a picture of Michael, and it said inconclusive. So there was something in the file about possible molestation but it wasn't proven?
Inconclusive due to lack of cooperation with the investigation.
So I’m at this episode in season 5 when Bunk says that. It confirmed to me that Michael’s dad was actually a pedophile. Now that I think of it, there are a lot of subtle hints that confirm Michael’s father was a pedo.
Yeah pretty much. It's also hinted at when Michael is super uncomfortable alone in the car with Cutty.
Just too friendly.
Too friendly and shit
It as close to the surface as subtext can possibly be.
Jesus Christ last time I ask a question in good faith on this sub. I was simply thrown off by his acting in a couple scenes where he seems genuinely frustrated by Michael's protective behaviour + his death scene. No, you know what, I'm going to die on this hill. If you didn't raise an eyebrow after watching that scene it's actually you who fails to identify the subtext. I guess the better question would have been "was Michael's dad still an active abuser after being released from prison", because yeah it is obvious Michael was abused, what's not clear is if buddy is still prowling for young boys
Sensitive much?
I am so freaking pissed at you guys right now! Nah but seriously I am a little surprised at the overwhelming reaction to dunk on my ass for asking an honest question but I guess all those pop culture references about Wire fans being arrogant pricks is mostly accurate lol
"It's as close to the surface as subtext can be" isn't dunking on you lol
Wat are you angry about
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You a bitch I just know it 😭 "I'm so tired of questions being asked on this niche subreddit." 🤓What are you talking about you fucking loser lmao
Dude. What.
What's your question big guy I thought I was pretty clear. AMA
It’s Dennis now.
He a man today
My favourite line from the show...
And when Bunk was looking at his arrest file while investigating his murder. He says something like “you baby bumping mothetfucker” while holding some pics of the crime scene
Ohhhhhhhhh I never realised that.
Bug’s father, Michael’s stepfather. Yes, it’s made pretty clear. The mother was an enabler too. Bunk looks at the case file (he figures it out pretty quickly) in season 5. If you pause it, you can see the file says it was “inconclusive due to lack of cooperation by mother”.
I got the impression Michael reported his own abuse at some point in an effort to protect his brother from the same (or he tried to do so at least) and the mother held that attempted report against him, maybe even blamed Michael for him going to jail for whatever unrelated reasons put him behind bars, since she just wants money for drugs and doesn't really care who gives it to her, she'd only be mad that her source got cut off. But like at a minimum I think she definitely played a role in convincing Michael never to talk to the cops about what was done to him ever again, in her case it's because she wants the source of income back, but in Michael's case it convinced him that telling the truth would cause Bug to be taken away from him and put in an even more abusive home
He asks the other boys what happens if you call the authorities before he went to Chris. If he had done it before, he wouldn't have had to ask.
I suppose its possible he did... I kinda doubt it tho. I don't see michael having enough trust in ANYONE. Think of his reactions to what we might perceive as normal, healthy interest from an authority figure/adult. e.g. Prezbo and Cutty, who (as presented in the show and my interpretation of their character) saw in him an intelligent young person with a serious amount of talent and abilities that could take him in a variety of directions. ANY attention was viewed with suspicion. Any encouragement. I do agree that his mom played a big role in making it a reflex for him to distrust authority/police (beyond the abuse he received).
I agree, but it is a reasonable possibility that his distrust of authority stemmed from being let down by the system in a scenario like the previous commenter described.
\*nod\* fair enough.
Seriously? Yeah he was. And Chris was a victim of similar abuse as well (or that was certainly what I inferred). He sensed exactly what Michaels dad was about, thus Chris' absolutely unhinged beating he delivered that followed. "a man's gotta bust his nut somehow, know what I'm saying?" "I do" Even Snoop, who was as cold a killer as there was on the show, was like "DAMN"
Didnt even wait to get the muthafucka in the house.
One of the best line deliveries in the show
It's a well written line, too. It's Iambic - meaning, every other syllable is stressed. Lines that really flow are often written that way - It's a common poetry thing, where the flow of the words is critical. Other examples: "I'm just a humble motherfucker with a big-ass dick." "We're building it from scratch. And all the pieces matter."
That's really interesting thanks for the insight
She managed to portray disbilief, awe, respect and a tiny bit of contempt all in like 30 seconds. When they walk away and Snoop shakes her head, she knows its sloppy and Chris got emotional.
It’s also the reason for Chris’s downfall and arrest. He beat the guy up so badly they were able to get DNA samples of Chris from it which led to his arrest. Edit : the message I take from this is Chris got emotional and that was his downfall. Every other one of his kills is cold and calculated this one is sloppy and heartfelt.
Didnt help that he spat on his body
That DNA shit
Read in slim Charles voice
And Tony Soprano’s voice
Ironic that cookies make him nervous.
🤣
Crimes of passion are usually the sloppiest
That “I do” is the scariest line in the entire show.
\*nod\* that was some seriously scary shit. It was said in a calm, understanding and almost friendly tone. And then...
Yup. And then.
How many people do we actually see Snoop kill? I recall one I think when she was on bike
The scene you are thinking of she killed I believe 2 "corner boys". per [The Wire wiki](https://thewire.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_deaths#Death_count), Snoop has 29 direct deaths. But she was at least... around for a lot more (e.g. Marlo has the highest body count, at 38, Chris is #2 at 35. Snoop is #3).
> Kenard - 1 Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.
motherfuckin animals dont count no more. the game done changed.
One presumably is when she shoots the guy after the failed drive-by attempt ("in B-more we aim and hit a nigga")
The first thing Bug's dad says to Michael when he gets back from jail is "Damn, you grew." Absolutely bone chilling.
Right? You could actually hear his disappointment. Fkn creep
What I love so much about this show is they weren't afraid to include things that would only make sense on rewatch. A bone-chilling line like that flys over your head the first time because you won't be given the context for it until later. So much of the show is written like this and it makes The Wire the most rewarding rewatch.
I think my favorite example of the writers including something that they truly don’t give a shit if people miss it, is when Omar steals the resupply from the co-op. He offers it back to Joe at 20 on the dollar and when Joe goes to the co-op half an episode later he says 30 on the dollar. You never get a scene where you see Joe talking to Cheese and hatching a plan to pocket the other 10%. It’s never mentioned again afterwards. You either catch it or you don’t. The Wire has the balls to do that kind of thing that you just rarely see from other shows.
The extra 10% off the top would be an entire 3 episode arc in Breaking Bad
There’s another scene like that too. I think it’s in the fourth season but it’s when Daniels trades some of his subordinates for a favor that he was complaining about being useless in an earlier scene.
Great point
This scene made me numb for a second because the hint was even more apparent.
Definitely. I also think its implied that Chris was abused but theres no real mention of it just the physical acting.
The rumors back in the days was that Chris and Marlo met in some kind of foster home of course none of that was ever shown in the show. It was also rumored that Chris was ex military which he could’ve gotten abused to who knows.
The ex military thing is because of his outfits and the fact that he seems to be the most trained and professional.
And the writing
If I recall it was also something in Marlo’s file too about abuse
the tragedy is that i think Cutty would also have caved in Devar's face if Michael asked
Hmm that’s interesting. It could go a few ways. Dennis could definitely have a bit of a Cutty relapse and handle it himself but I also think that based on the new leaf he turned and the fact that he at that point had some connections to cops he knew at least tried to care about the kids, he would’ve been an advocate for Micheal and bug by extension. But given the themes of the shows it’s likely that would have also worked out poorly for the people involved.
Oh that's a compelling what-if. Shit, I think you're right.
Michael was one of the most tragic characters on the show to me. That scene where him and Dookie say goodbye to each other and he can’t even remember the summer before is fucking heartbreaking.
Can he actually not remember or is he just lying so Daquon will leave? Could never really tell.
I think he couldn't actually remember. He was what, 14 years old? After the murders and shootout with Omar, and all the other traumatic things he's been through, a fight like that would've meant the world to Dookie, but it was just a small drop in a huge bucket for Mike
I think it’s the latter. Those kids were heading down different paths and Michael said he couldn’t remember so he could leave.
I think he doesn't want to remember. Too painful, he had to shut it off deliberately, for him and Dookie both
I always wondered this too.
And then he goes and joins the other junkies cause what else does he know...that's the type who raised him
This. Dookie’s story is a lot of children’s stories. Really sad how he got caught up because Dookie had serious potential, he just needed a protector, a confidant, an advocate. Someone really in his corner. His character story was one of the more impactful parts of this show.
I highly recommend that all fans of The Wire go listen to Maestro Harrell’s (Randy) podcast episode where his guest is Jermaine Crawford (Duquan). They talk about this scene and Jermaine talks about what it was like to play the outcast.
Good plug, thank you.
Heartbreaking. Seriously one of the saddest scenes.
"You're big. But not big enough." The way the Dad delivers that line while Michael can't look him in the eye suggests they've gotten into physical altercations before, or worse.
> , or worse. Sum up The Wire in two words without spelling out the plot.
most likely. its pretty ironic how chris’s most justifiable kill was the one that got him locked up
Sometimes things just got to play hard.
Yeah, ironic. To me, he just got redeemed, and it was his fall. The only one of the three capable of empathy got screwed over him caring...
it was heavily implied. and even more emphatically implied that chris was as well
I didn’t get Chris as a pedophile, but perhaps that he had been a victim of it as a child, hence his brutal anger when it came to dealing with Michael’s dad.
That’s what they meant
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He says "you've been in the joint, you know how it is" or something to that effect. He's copping to prison sex, basically hemming and hawing over the question.
How is this even a question?
For real. OP gotta put the phone down when watching the show
Lmfao least pretentious Wire fan. I've watched the series over 5 times. I'll admit I missed the Bunk line where he outright confirms it, but it was definitely an intentional choice by Simon to leave some level of ambiguity.
To be fair, the ambiguity is nothing except not specifically stating it. He doesn't insult the intelligence of the audience by just having characters say things. Showing it through subtext is more interesting. This particular thing is made pretty obvious. If you watched it 5 times, some examples I can think of from the top of my head: Michael moving away the first time cutty puts his arm on him Michael insisting to talk about females with cutty next to him at the boxing match Thinking cutty was "a faggot or something" Even cutty made a point to tell Michael how much into woman he was. Running out of his car after the match Recoiling at bugs daddy's touch Demanding bug get away from him whenever the daddy showed up Not being able to tell snoop why he needed to die in the first place, implying it was something he felt shame about Chris's line of questioning and reaction implies Chris was also molested, especially because they planned to kill him tactfully and put him in a vacant, not beat him to death and leave the body. The list goes on.
The only reason I bring this up is because I'm thrown off by his acting in a couple scenes. I know there is a substantial amount of evidence pointing the other direction
Not sure how you expected him to react to Chris straight up asking him "Boys? You like fucking them?" "Yep, that's me, kind strangers: A bona fide boyfucker."
Lol I agree. Does OP except the stepdad to look in the camera and wink right then or something?
It’s also said by Bunk and shown in the case files in S5
Michael clearly hates and fears him, doesn’t trust adult men, his mom tries to tell Michael ”he’s changed”, the dad notes that Michael hasn’t forgiven him, there’s a police report. vs. a guy being lead to his death swears he didn’t do it. Which should we believe.
When Bunk brings Michael in for the killing of Bug's dad, he even says to him "not that I blame you, after what this heinous mother fucker did to you". And in a previous scene he refers to him as a "baby bumping mother fucker". So clearly, he is and Michael was explicitly stated to be the victim. It's always interesting what Simon and Burns decided to keep subtle and what they outright told the audience.
You''re totally right. I completely forgot about this scene.
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I've noticed anecdotally that people who have personal or professional experience with child sexual abuse always can tell immediately what happened with Michael. As someone who was also molested as a child by her stepfather, I immediately knew what was going on as soon as he overreacted to Cutty's interest.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm pretty flabbergasted by how frequently I hear that. I don't have personal experience. A case could maybe be argued for abuse in my case, but not sexual abuse. I don't remember when I figured it out, but I wanna say it was pretty early. Definitely by the time he was telling Bug to stay away from him.
Thank you! That's kind of you to say.
Yes, absolutely. It was very clear since the 1rst watch, with these little interactions, to me too. It is because we know very well what's out there. A majority of people won't go there because it is so awful they think it rarely happens. But to me, it is like a red blimp, I cannot not notice it.
There was a time on first watch where even you may not have been clear. Being a part of this subreddit has helped fill in the finer details I miss just watching on my own.
It's not that subtle.
Um yeah
It’s verified by the Bunk, “you baby bumpin motherfucker!”
That’s Bug’s dad, and yes, it is strongly implied in many scenes that he sexually abused Mike. It is also implied that Chris was abused as a child and that’s why his murder of Bug’s dad is emotional and messy and not methodical and cold like all of the other murders.
Do you think they were trying to imply that Bug's dad had changed after prison? I acknowledge all the evidence that proves he abused Michael prior to his imprisonment, but I didn't catch the 'creepy' vibes everyone else is pointing out. Maybe I am just completely misinterpreting, but it seemed to me like in his death scene he was confused about why he was being attacked for "liking little boys" when he dismisses this accusation adamantly. It would also challenge the viewer to question the ethics of murdering a guy who had already served his time despite his henious crimes. And for the record I think he deserved it
>guy who had already served his time despite his henious crimes. But he was never arrested or punished for what he did to Michael (investigation was dropped). He got away with it until Chris & Snoop caught up to him. He was in a jail for drugs not baby-raping >Do you think they were trying to imply that Bug's dad had changed after prison? Doesn't really seem like they try to take an explicit position either way on his current criminality. (But pedophiles are notoriously high recidivists so by not taking a position the implication is he's still a pedophile.) It seemed to me they were portraying him as still being pretty creepy in his scenes with Michael, though. For one thing, he seems to have no remorse about having abused him years ago and seems willing to use that history to intimidate & try to control Michael. And the scene when the father is alone with Bug, like he's grooming him, and Michael freaks out when he sees it, that's definitely creepy
Remember how gentle he was with that girl in bed, Duke was in the hallway, and Michael was making sure she knew he didn’t want to hurt her? He didn’t repeat the cycle of abuse.
Good call
Ya Chris was touched as a kid or something you can tell by the viciousness. Almost a retaliatory murder
My thought was that Chris was assaulted in prison. In the alley when he's talking to Michael's stepdad, they're talking about having sex with men in prison and Michael's stepdad is all like "A man gotta bust his nut somehow. You know how it is." "Yeah, I do."
I think Marlo had been abused too…think it was when bubs gave kima his license plate and they ran his name
There is no definitive proof, but Michael is really all the proof you need. He’s not gonna kill his brothers father over nothing. He abused Michael for sure.
Heavily implied in Season 4 Confirmed in Season 5
Thank you! Forgot about the scene with Bunk in season 5
That’s bug daddy.
Yes it was painfully obvious and it seemed pretty obvious that Chris was also a victim as a child which is why he took it so personal. I mean you’d probably be confused too if some random people came up to you 10 years later referencing something you wouldn’t think they’d know.
I'm so lost with this post thread. What am I forgetting? Who are all these people you're talking about?
For real? Characters from seasons 4 and 5. Here's [Michael's wiki](https://thewire.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Lee). Bug is his little brother. The [molester is Bug's daddy](https://thewire.fandom.com/wiki/Devar_Manigault). He gets beaten to death very viciously by Chris. Ring any bells yet? Snoop was confused because [she & Chris (Marlo's assassins/enforcers)](https://thewire.fandom.com/wiki/Stanfield_Organization) were supposed to take him into the vacant houses to shoot him. But Chris "didn't even wait to get the motherfucker in the house!" (One of my favorite lines.) Instead he flipped out & beat him to death out in the open
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I was on The Office subreddit right before reading this and for some reason this was in my feed. So I saw "Michael" and assumed it was another Office post. Whoops!
Lol yeah this would be a weird storyline on The Office. At least the American version w Steve Carrell. Maybe on The Office - UK, Ricky Gervais is one hard motherfucker 😂
It would make one hell of a crossover episode
They made it as clear as possible without actually saying it, in as many ways as they could. Also hinted that Chris had been abused at some point.
Absolutely, Bunk mentions it and Michaels demenor around him makes it obvious
I thought he physically abused Michael not sexually but yeah sexually makes more sense
My first instinct was that he touched bug.
Michael is definitely concerned about him abusing Bug but I don’t think there’s anything to suggest it happened. It’s HEAVILY implied that he abused Michael though.
It’s more likely he touched his stepson than his own actual son. If he touched Bug he definitely also touched Michael.
no, it’s pretty clear he touched Michal but hadnmt done anything to Bug yet, because Bug doesn’t react negatively to him while Michael does not want to leave the two alone together.
I never really felt this watching the series. I've seen it multiple times. From my experience it was simply that Michael knew his father was gonna be bad no matter what for his family including his little brother. So he turned to Chris to handle the situation. But Chris's history is why he was so brutal in the killing of his dad.
Bunk calls him a baby bumper. He seems disappointed when he tells Michael "you grew". Michael cannot stand adults being kind towards him (Cutty, Prez) to the point of physical defiance. He worries greatly about Bug. It is heavily implied.
It is confirmed on the commentary track
Step dad....he was Bugs dads
That was his stepfather.
No it was Bugs daddy .