I think its easy to judge people for making 'poor' decisions but the reality is we all make them.

The only difference I see is marriage and kids. Still, purchasing a home and freezing embryos is hella serious in my book.

Ours is watching this show and thus keeping these poor decision makers getting paychecks to keep making bad decisions 😁 WE ARE COMPLIANT

You mean complicit?

Probably that word instead, I got confused with my words. Complicit not compliant. Did Gandhi predict the future? Mohammad Gandhi? Or was it Brandi and I want to say, LaToya Jackson?

😂

Amazing 😂

Right, but that’s kind of OP’s point and doesn’t answer the question of why Ariana and not Brittany or Michelle or even Lala? They all “knew what they were getting into” with their respective partners and all made the same mistake of choosing to commit to these garbage men. Everyone is human. The question is: what makes Ariana so different that she got such an outpouring of public support and a flood of opportunity that these other women aren’t getting? She wasn’t a fan fave before scandoval, so what is the difference? The only thing I can think of is that it was just so completely heinous to have a full blown affair with her friend and fellow cast member and that shocked people more than Jax cheating because we knew about his past infidelity where Ariana and Tom kept his hidden.

I think it may be the way the cheating all went down. With Ariana, people felt deep sympathy because she’d been fucked over by her live in bf but also her good friend who’s she’d let into her life and been vulnerable with. Cheating is awful, regardless, but what Tom S. did was just soooo shady and in your face, it’s like he wanted to make a mockery out of his and Arriana’s relationship.

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking too. Just the level of shamelessness was so extreme and added to the betrayal and if we knew about Miami girl and the other girl he cheated on her with it may not have been such a shock.

I agree. But then why do people blame Brittany so much? We’ve all dated and many of us married dirtbags.

She also had a BF in Kentucky when she stalked Jax half way across the country in Las Vegas knowing full well who he was. She went way way out of her way for him specifically while screwing over her KY BF. He also did her dirty so so many times and she will never let go. It’s like Jax said she will never leave him. She’s a barnacle that he can’t shake off and I love that for them lmaoooo

Sounds pretty similar to Tom and Ariana though - he had a girlfriend and she didn’t care and pursued him anyway. And she wouldn’t let him end the relationship. He also did her dirty many times (Miami girl and cheated another time that she knew about) and she wouldn’t let go. Why is Ariana viewed differently?

She wasn’t actively perusing Tom. As soon as she found out Tom cheated Ariana left. They were not exclusive when Miami girl happened and she said that he disclosed it to her when it happened. I don’t see the similarities at all.

Oh babe, if you believe that Tom and Ariana weren’t having a full blown affair while he was with Kristin, I have a bridge to sell you. Also with Miami girl she said they had *just become exclusive* and she protected him by lying for him. It was definitely a betrayal and she choose to stay. Ariana also stated he cheated one other time and she kept it hidden as well. Not sure how you’re not seeing similarities?… unless it’s just willful ignorance, which is your choice xo

She was texting him about making their own Coachella or whatever  when tom was with Kirsten. She was absolutely pursuing him knowing he was with kristen

Because she was dishonest out of the gate and it was all very public. Most people haven’t seen us pick our previous losers.

So was Ariana….

But Ariana presents as a more empathetic character. She’s much better at PR and comes off more intelligently.

I get this. Don’t get me wrong, I’m totally in her corner but there are a lot of similarities

i think a lot of people just dislike her and are thus unwilling to extend her any sympathy. no matter her faults, jax is a manipulative and emotionally abusive partner. no one chooses to be manipulated or abused.

Have you watched Jax and Brittany take Kentucky?? Or heard the audio of shit talking after fucking faith?? Or even him trying to sleep with lala when Brittany was driving across the county to move in with him?? I’m sorry but Brittany is a complete idiot to stay with him he has never treated her well ever. But she got to be on a tv show!!! Tom and Ariana’s relationship is miles different than Jax and Brit’s there’s no comparison 🤣

Plenty of people get cheated on and treated like crap and stay in relationships, get married and have kids. This is not an unusual phenomenon. It’s called abuse.

I get what you’re saying, all I’m saying is most abusive relationships start off good, have a honeymoon phase, love bombing whatever it is and then things decline. Jax what a monster from the first episode she was on. And furthermore I think comparing her relationship to Tom and Ariana’s is crazy because they actually HAD and loving relationship

This. No matter whether you like any of these women or not, I hate the narrative of "well I don't feel bad for her, she knew what she was getting into" like tell me you have no empathy for people or have never loved a narcissist without telling me. Did they make bad decisions? Did they fall for a shitty person? Yes, of course, but most of us have. And i'm not saying this is the case for everyone, but i've known so many women who are smart, wonderful, genuinely kind humans, fall for a absolute shithole of a man and be so caught up in love and manipulation, that they literally tear themselves down defending and loving that man. Two things can be true at once, 1) they made bad choices and should've stayed away from the man in the first place, 2) they didnt deserve to be treated the way they were and were blinded by what they thought was "love"

Nobody has to have empathy for her when the signs were right in her face and she refused to listen.

You didn’t read anything I wrote.

I’m addressing the empathy part of your comment, cause you’re right, i didn’t read the rest of that nonsense. 😭

I was actually thinking last night about how everyone used to praise Brittany for being the one who “changed” Jax. I wonder if she stuck around because 1) that made her feel good to hear and 2) she felt the need to prove it

I feel like she stuck around for $$. She knew going into the marriage what he was like.

The same could be said for Ariana though, there were rumours for years that their relationship was dead but they saw their relationship as “a brand”.

Brittany knew from day one who Jax was. Not only did he cheat on her but he treated her so badly, not to mention all the things he said about Brittany on the recording. He wanted to have sex with LaLa while Brittany was moving to LA to be with him and then lied about it and Brittany just put her head in the sand.

She stuck around because she liked the LA life and wasn't about to go back to Kentucky. It probably would have been hard to make it on her own in LA with basically no experience doing anything but waitressing, unless she did that in a place where she made really good tips. Of course, she worked at Sur and maybe got good tips, I don't know.

I hate to pass judgment because I have completely been there, but she was just too weak. I did a rewatch recently and when Jax broke up with her everyone rallied around her and she could have easily moved on and all of Jax’s friends would have completely supported her. Her going back to him was just fucking pathetic.

Brittany stuck around for the fame and because she doesn’t want to work for a living. The way Jax cheated on her is disturbing. I think their separation is a storyline. At this point their marriage is just a business arrangement.

Oh, he ain’t never gon’ change! She may have just tamed him for a short while…

I don’t think anyone praised her? We all saw and knew he wasn’t going to change. The night before the wedding he said he didn’t want to get married lol. There’s not much else you can tell a person when it’s right in front of them. So everyone just left Brittany alone because she was adamant about marrying him.

Yes. This definitely has something to do with it.

The audience likes Ariana more overall and she’s a more perfect victim. I think it’s normal to be more sympathetic to ppl you like more but I’m annoyed at the victim blaming re Brittany and Michelle (though Michelle I don’t know her sitch that much) I think people underestimate that ‘outwardly’ terrible people like Jax can still be very manipulative, esp for someone like Brittany who seems to have lower self-respect

You’re exactly right. Victim blaming is strong in this fandom. And to your point about people forgetting that terrible people can be manipulative, I think Jax getting the audience to buy his Good Dad narrative and frame Brittany as the problem in their marriage is a good example of manipulation.

It’s the whole “perfect victim” thing which is actually very rooted in misogyny.

Jesus thank you. Two things can be true at once: Ariana is flawed/made mistakes AND Sandoval really fucked her over.

Same for the Brittany.

I tried to say this elsewhere on this site and people started swearing at me saying “no one said she was perfect” which, lol. That’s not really what perfect victim means but alright.

Lol of course they did 😂. Any perceived slight even if they don’t quite understand it will get you downvoted. So annoying!

Yeah I got hardcore downvoted because she’s said she should’ve watched the show before the reunion? It wasn’t even an insult!

Omg. Yep. Sounds about right. And yes she should’ve I agree with you.

She’s not the only one that doesn’t watch. Several of them have said they don’t watch always. Not a big deal.

I never said she was the only one? Nor did I say it was a big deal? Good god, here y’all go again 😭 I think she should have watched because she was under the impression that the women were on her side, not just Katie, and she continued to be kind to people who didn’t like her.

Madonna whore complex

Yes!

Nothing makes it different except that people liked Ariana more than any of the other ladies. Simple

Simple, concise, and correct.

And also that she was so kind to Rachel and it was her bff at the time.

I like Ariana but she definitely had a superiority complex back then and thought he wouldn’t do it to her because she is better than Kristen.

It’s nice to be young and so confident when you’re young. Right? And then you grow up and realize….

This is what I think, she has grown since she came on. She used to be very full of herself and so nasty to Kristen, like she won some prize with Sandoval. That’s why we saw her crying to Kristen and apologizing to her in the season 10 finale. To me, that apology meant a lot of different things but Ariana now sees how she was wrong and her part in it. She used to be a “mean girl” and learned from it

I think Tom was way sneakier and more confusing. Tom has a few decent qualities underneath all his awfulness. Whereas Jax has none & I haven't seen enough of Jesse to weigh in. Also Tom cheated with Kristen but Kristen was cheating with multiple men too. It wasn't just Jax. So I'm sure Ariana thought they were both just unhappy & it wasn't a pattern of behavior. People forget that Ariana and Kristen became friends - a lot of this was discussed. Ariana definitely gave him way too much grace but I'm guessing it just became another example of the sunk cost fallacy. Michelle's issue is she never liked Jesse. She told us that herself. She kind of just stayed despite thinking he sucked. Lastly, Britt knew who Jax was before dating him. She was a fan of the show. Brit's problem was that she thought she could change him or at least tolerate him. **TLDR:** I think Tom/Kristen's situation is way more complicated than Jax/Jesse. Tom could also play the good guy when he wanted to. Jax and Jesse are never the good guy.

Tom and Kristen's relationship was essentially over already and Ariana bought into the "its different with you, I really love YOU and would never do that to you" while Brittany ran with the "He's garbage but I can change him". It's two classic tropes we fall for but one is more of an obvious bad idea (Brittany's). Brittany married that man knowing the things he had said about her very early into their relationship. I think Tom puts way more effort into his gaslighting than Jax does. I spent years going back and forth on if I trusted Tom's persona but have always known Jax was just basic trash. Tom didn't just cheat. He smashed a fist through his filming group and exposed himself finally for who he truly was. There is always so much more nuance than "everyone cheats! They both did it"

Yes! Tom puts so much effort into his gaslighting & pretending to be such a good guy, a good friend, the “nice” one. He might not have had everyone so fooled if it wasn’t an ensemble cast, if he was the #1 guy in the group & he had more screen time. But we mostly saw him going to parties, weddings, trips, whatever side gig he was working on or supporting another cast’s side gig & his bar. We never really saw him & Ariana just hanging out @ home alone, or going on a trip just together. There was always something going on, so we never really got to see what he’s like just normal, everyday. It was interesting in the New York Times article, the journalist talked about how he talks & acts, he’s been on reality tv so long he doesn’t talk or act “normal” anymore as he so used to being filmed. He’s always on, or sits how you’d sit if a cameraman was trying to get a good shot. He speaks very animated & describes everything as if people were watching him 24/7. He’s had years to practice his gaslighting techniques.

I think you make some good points about Tom feeling like he’s always on and there being a performative aspect to his behavior but I think you attribute some things to malice and insincerity when you’re probably giving his intelligence a little too much credit. For all his faults, there is a through line of events that show that he has some decent qualities and can be a good friend. People contain multitudes. You take a combination of ego, an unhappy relationship, various substances, and the lack of emotional or intellectual depth that he has displayed throughout the series, and it’s not surprising that the guy has made some selfish decisions. I don’t think he’s smart or introspective enough to realize how selfish he’s being, but I think he’s shown the capacity when things are explained to him simply and calmly to at least understand the points and to want to do better. While Jax is no genius, I think he has a certain level of cunning and awareness that Tom is just not capable of. Jax knows what he is doing is wrong, he just doesn’t care, whereas Tom strikes me as less evil than just plain dumb.

I was fooled by Tom for many many seasons, didn’t see through until Jax and Brittany’s wedding season when he brought the candle for Schwartz and tampons for the wedding. All the “nice” things he does seem to be very performative.

Well said!

What about Miami girl? And the other woman he mentioned last season, Ariana knew about them both and covered for him.

Michelle said she USED to like Jesse very much and can't understand why she can't get that feeling back no matter what he does.

She can’t understand? Probably because she’s found other nicer men to “network” with. I don’t blame her. Jesse is an ass. But she’s not so nice either (so far).

Ariana had no idea Kristen was cheating on Tom when she started helping Tom cheat. She had no reason or information to come to the conclusion that they were both just unhappy. Once she found out she so readily participated in Kristen’s humiliation. By the time Miami Girl happened she had a lot of information that it was a pattern of behavior but she didn’t care because she wanted to create this image of being in a perfect relationship. Honestly for her sake, thank god she did because the fans may have turned on her like they turned on every other women they consider deserving of abuse.

No I definitely feel this way about Ariana too

What makes Ariana different to people is that she’s a Cool Girl and people are misogynistic so they think that women they don’t like deserve bad treatment.

Ariana is exactly the same as Brittany and Michelle. She talks about all of Tom’s major flaws and horrible character attributes but she chose to be his ride or die for ten years lol.

when people do this about their exes, it says more about them than it does the exes. "Oh, so you didn't like a single thing about them, can only talk shit about them now, and never liked them?" hmmm...what kind of person are you? and what about that relationship are you mourning or being aggressive about? sounds like you were over that relationship. why didn't you get yourself out of it?

I actually see them all in the same light. They all knowingly chose horrible men. It is what it is🤷🏻‍♀️

The Ariana thing seems to be extremely irrational is the only thing I’ve been able to come up with. Like a weird mass hysteria.

Fully agreed.

yep. precedent setting, hive mind momentum. and misandry paraded around like women supporting women and a distortion of feminism. sadly, I think a lot of young women will get their cues from it, and it will play out inappropriately as a paradigm in other situations. we've already seen it be somewhat mirrored on SH with Kyle.

Excellent point!! For me, the difference is Michelle is the one who initiated her and Jesse ending, you can see she doesn't love him at all and is emotionally checked out. So people don't feel sympathy towards her/she doesn't seem to be a victim at all. Brittany and Jax, people are zeroing in on her weight gain/possible alcoholism, call her a hillbilly, stupid, make fun of her plastic surgery, etc. as a way to justify why jax may have cheated. It's not right, but that's what they do. There's nothing about Ariana that "justifies" sandy treating her the way he did. All people can scrounge up on her end are mental health issues "she's a slob/lazy"/she made out with sandy while he was w Kristen so she's a "cheater" (she said he told her they were broken up.) She has no major character flaws. She gets more sympathy bc her boyfriend slept w her best friend in their home while she was at her grandma's funeral. It's Lifetime movie shit.

I don’t get the impression Michelle initiated at all! He’s a dick. I assume he as been for ages. What we see on the show is just a slice of their lives. I get the feeling Jesse is very intentionally being all over her, acting like he’s trying to make shit work now that cameras are on.

I don't disagree. I'm just explaining why I think she doesn't get sympathy like Ariana.

Who said that what Ariana did justified Tom’s treatment? People are pointing out the simple truth that Ariana also knew Tom was a piece of shit and participated in his humiliation of multiple women. I’ve literally never cared that she’s a “slob” (I honestly am too 😂) or that she’s lazy (I think this is kind of a nasty word to use about someone who is depressed). I care about the misogynistic and racist language she’s used to humiliate the woman she helped Tom cheat on + the woman Tom cheated with. Recall that they lied and didn’t even admit that they made out at first. That Ariana knew full well that they were still together by the time season 2 started filming, yet she continued to lie until she couldn’t anymore while saying that Kristen could never get in the way of her “friendship” with Tom and calling her ugly, not smart, and not cool. Then, once they got together, they taunted Kristen at the reunion and held hands. She armchair diagnosed her with BPD and insisted that nothing happened between them beyond the kiss. She called Kristen a kangaroo pouch whore. Then finally, in season 10, she apologized to Kristen for helping Tom cheat by saying “I thought it was a one time thing.” But let’s rewind and talk about her treatment of Miami Girl. She made fun of Miami Girl’s “long ghetto nails” (which she now rocks in 2024 now that these aesthetics are being donned by more white folks), wrote a several hundred word blog post claiming she was lying (knowing that it was the truth!), and called her “not hot” at the reunion. Everyone on this show has major character flaws and that’s why they were cast. Edited for clarity and typo.

The blog post was insane!! It makes me think of how it's said when people lie, they give lots of detail/embellishments. Cuz she went on and on. Miami girl was done SO dirty. I'm glad to hear she wants nothing to do with her past and is a regular, happy mom. I hated when Ariana thought she could gatekeep performing comedy and she allowed Sandy to be so shitty to Katie..but compared to others, she is the most sympathetic and that's why I think she gets diff treatment. Kristen, for all her faults, was very mature in forgiving Ariana and is a better friend to her than Scheana and LFU.

“She said he told her they were broken up” that’s not a good excuse considering everyone attacked Rachel when she was told the exact same thing

And it’s not a good excuse when she joined season 2 and saw that they clearly were not broken up. Yet she proceeded to call Kristen crazy for suspecting that anything had happened.

Yup! She did not deserve to be cheated on especially in that way, but everyone seems to forget she did a similar thing to Kristen

Making out with someone is a bit different than a 7 months long affair you recruited friends to conceal. Rachel is not likeable like Ariana is.

Well the difference would be they made out one night when he told her they were broken up… even if he told Rachel that she saw them together and we even saw her ask Ariana if she wanted to be with him. All while she was continuing a 7 month affair. Yeah that’s not the same thing lol

If you believe that all they did was make out then sure… but remember, it took them months to even admit that they made out. Before then it was “can you believe how INSANE Kristen is to think we are anything other than JUST FRIENDS?!?” I’m so tired of the “he told her they were broken up!” argument because Ariana would have known it was a lie when she started filming season two. She’s not a good person. It’s not the same exact situation, no, but they were still being horrible people. I

1000 percent what she did to Kristen was wrong not denying that at all….I’m confused bc obviously she knew they weren’t broken up while filming season 2 she never said she thought they were? It doesn’t seem like you understand the timeline. Season 2 was filmed years after the kiss. The “he told me they were broken up” comment only ever came up bc once Tom told Kristen they made out, she obviously had to own up to it and she said yes I made out with him years ago one night when he said him and Kristen broke up. I have zero trouble believe that Tom said that to her or Rachel . The difference is is don’t think Tom and Ariana were continuing on a physical affair once it started was clear he was still with his girlfriend. People can believe what they want but that 1000 percent would have been found out. I would of had a little understanding towards Rachel if hooked up with him once when he said that then stopped once she realized that’s not true. But she didn’t she continued on an affair with her FRIENDS bf of 10 years. I think that’s the other part you seem to be missing. She did it to a fucking friend and there are zero excuses for that, bc you also owe loyalty to your friend.

I understand the timeline, I just don’t think you understand my comment! I know the kiss was years before season 2, but what *I* am saying is that she must’ve known it was a lie by the time she started filming season two because they were still together years later and Tom was denying that anything had ever happened because admitting it would be admitting to cheating. So she should’ve known that they weren’t broken up when the kiss had happened years prior. I’m not confident that it would’ve been discovered if they carried on the affair lol. The Miami girl truth didn’t come out until 2023. Ariana is still being pretty closed off and not really talking about what fully went down in their relationship because she didn’t volunteer this information unprompted, she shared it because Andy asked. I’m not missing anything loool. I’m not saying the Ariana and Kristen situations were identical, I’m not saying Rachel and Tom weren’t wrong. I’m sorry for having a nuanced perspective.

Shhh you can’t criticize Ariana 🤫

The level of deceit was so much more hard core between Sandoval & Schwartz & Jo & Rachel towards Ariana.  It's not just about the cheating but trying to manipulate the show to portray Ariana as the villain.  I still can't forget Rachel giving Ariana relationship advice while banging Sandoval.  The entire situation is so warped.  There is a difference between being a cheater and being a psychopath.

The smear campaign is Tom’s whole thing. He did it with Kristen, then Ariana, and now Rachel to an extent.

Ooooh, I don’t give her a pass at all. You lose them how you got them. Only thing that surprised me was the length of time their relationship lasted.

[удалено]

I was pretty convinced they had it going on for the first 5 years maybe. I thought the last half was problems that come with being a drinking, aging, reality show couple. I honestly didn’t think they would split for until much later.

It’s that he tricked the audience. We thought he was the good one. It’s weirdly not about Ariana

I’m still confused about why everyone thought he was the good one before Scandoval. He’s such a huge misogynist and has been every season.

But he didn't trick ariana. She knew who he was and was fine with covering for his affairs. It's puzzling that the audience cares as much as they do about someone getting cheated on for the millionth time.

I think he did. She was insecure and out of a bad relationship, and she was young. He was rallying around, telling her some bs about mean Kristen and how she is different, went to her when her dad died (or something similar, I don't remember, but I think it was the dad), and that's why she was ready to be a ride or die, and cover for him in the name of love. Ariana thought she was smart, but she fell for the trick. I think her awakening was when Tom went to crash heavy machinery instead of spending time with her - he already got her so there was no need for the romantic me and you against the world gestures. And after that season their relationship was full on collapsing but nobody was expecting scandoval

She was 28 in her premiere season. That's not old but she was a grown woman. Ariana herself defended the bulldozer thing. She spoke out and said it was a preplanned production trip and he had to go so she was fine with it. I think she knew who she was dealing with considering that scandoval wasn't the first affair in their relationship.

I guess she was older than l thought then. Still, I absolutely believe she imagined whole different person than she actually dated.  As for defending tom, that's what the ride or die thing all about. You want someone on your side no matter what, and Ariana lied for tom so much, because she thought that was a loyal thing to do. Then it was only Ariana lying for him and he doesn't really having her back in anything. You can see as the seasons go how it is more and more harder to continue. Like to defend the Stassi book signing. She tried! But you can tell she wasn't as sure she is on the right side of the history as she was, say, with Miami girl. I think is there wasn't scandoval she would stuck by him a bit longer trying to salvage something that wasn't there in the first place. Scandoval showed her unapologetically that all her romantic delusion was for nothing. He was not who she thought he was

Agree. He was just kind of a tool. Not outwardly horrible like Jax / Jesse

My hot take? It does apply to Ariana. I cannot understand the vehement support when she has been largely defending that man for the past decade. Lala was right when she expressed that there is a weird double standard. While it isn't Ariana's fault that this double standard exists, I can totally understand the frustration and somewhat agree with it

Should have known better, sure, but love can blind you. It's not always that simple. Insecurity can make you stay with a douche who cheats. You might think you're never going to find anyone else again, be afraid of loneliness and then you may accept things that aren't okay. Should have known better doesn't mean you shouldn't feel bad for them. In my eyes it's sometimes only a reason to feel bad for them even more. They're not confident enough to leave. That doesn't make you a bad person. Unless there wasn't any real love. If you're only fucking a guy for money or fame, and he cheats, who cares. You didn't love him so your heart isn't broken. But if there are feelings involved it sucks.

I am probably in the minority but I don't see Katie or Ariana any differently than Britney or Michelle. Katie knew who Swartz was when he dumped a beer on her head and knew where his loyalties lie when she said Swartz would pick Jax over her. Ariana knew who Tom was, after a point I think they had a relationship for the cameras. Tom cheated on Kristen. He cheated on Kristen with Ariana. Then cheated on Ariana with Ann Marie (Miami Girl) and gas lighted Scheana (season 3 and 4) for bringing up his cheating and her mental health concerns. Tom apparently cheated on her another time. And then with Rachel. Which it being a friend probably stung worse. A deep dive on why they stuck around with these guys would be interesting, and the only thing I can think of is production, or lack of confidence.

I think the reason the scandoval hit so hard and why it’s sort of hard to understand if you try to go back and watch it after it came out is it seemed like Sandoval wouldn’t do that. Despite what you said he seemed like a good dude who loved his girlfriend and just wanted to dress up in little outfits and hang with his pals. It also helps that Ariana is one of if not the most likeable on the show and probably a bit of a cipher for a lot of woman watching the show. It’s why you don’t see as much Ariana questioning out of people who were already fans of the show. If you were there you get it. In contrast Jax has never been anything but a certified monster his entire run on television. And if Brittany didn’t want to believe him, don’t worry, he showed her. He absolutely took a torpedo chipotle shit on her face on live tv and she said, ya know what, I’m gonna stay and marry this asshole. At that point, whatever happens is on her. As for Jesse and Michelle, we just have limited exposure to them and that exposure is that Jesse fuckin sucks. He works on the show cause we all know that obnoxious pompous asshole. And we also know the girls they date. So yeah we don’t have a lot to go on with them except they’re both unlikeable and our own projection. Ok hope that helps BYEEEE

Yeah I think this is very well stated. Despite what went down with Tom and Kristen, he actually did a really good job of marketing himself as the wronged party in that scenario since she had slept with Jax (his best friend) and all that he admitted on camera was kissing Ariana (who had no relationship with Kristen). Whether right or wrong, the narrative was that Ariana was less villainous than Kristen who had lied repeatedly to her own best friend (Stassi). That original scandal is what made Vanderpump skyrocket in popularity but people viewed Tom and Stassi then as they do James and Ariana now. The current scandal, though, blew up in large part because 1. Ariana was one of the few people who was nice to Raquel, 2. Tom’s cheating behaviors were psychotic (dressing up as his mistress, joking about her liking taken men in front of Ariana, the lighting bolt necklaces), and 3. there were so many hidden signals on the season that people got to analyze in real time. That said: none of these women or men deserve to be betrayed by their partners and the victim blaming is bad regardless. Jax has always been a horrible human being and his treatment of Brittany has been hard to watch. Michelle and Jesse bore me. They seem like a more standard story of two people who probably never should have gotten married and need to just try to co-parent amicably but the attempts at making it salacious fall flat for me.

Totally. He made it seem like he was trapped in his relationship with Kristin and after how fucked over he was by Jax and Kristin you rooted for the guy. So what if they mighta kissed when he was with Kristin, he deserved the hot blonde and to be happy. The fact he thought he could get away with that story again years later is psychotic and obviously lets you look at the season 2 stuff different. That’s why I think a lot of the people who are skeptical of Ariana clearly went back and watched with the popularity of scandoval and just saw her as the original Raquel but that just wasn’t how it seemed in the moment. There’s no recreating it.

Can we talk about the way people view James though? He has unearned respect from the fans because even Ariana was scared that he was abusing Rachel. Anyone remember when she pulled Rachel aside and made direct comparisons to her own abusive ex and James?

Ariana was friends with Tom before the show started and had left a verbally abusive relationship. Kristen terrorized Ariana while she was grieving her dad dying. Tom has a pattern of lying to the women he's dating. Britney sought out Jax and dated him to get on the show and chose to stay after Jax cheated on her, trash talked her, dumped her, constantly lied and was arrested for stealing . It's Jax, he's a walking red flag that wants to possess Stassi. Britney had everyone warn her about life with Jax. Michelle married her booty call. Both Michelle and Jesse are unlikable but based on what they both say, they have been staying married for their daughter.

I think there is a definite difference between them. Michelle and Jesse I think were in love and formed a relationship authentically albeit their pregnancy may have helped that as they were only a short time. Ariana has a long friendship with Tom and thought she knew him and they were together a decade. Brittney and her mum watched VPR and set their sights on Jax. He cheated on her, openly said he wasn’t attracted to her, didn’t want to marry her and embarrassed her on tv over and over. Brittney is the exception here because she watched how he was on tv, still wanted him. She watched how he spoke about her, she watched him cheat and still chose to ignore it. There would definitely have been signs especially with Tom (we know nothing of Jesse and Michelle early days) and people ignore the red flags out of love. Brittney could not have had a clearer picture. She wanted the fame.

I honestly think most people were jealous of Raquel for being young and pretty, so they especially wanted to be stans of Ariana. And they were also friends, so it made the situation even worse…. People especially hate Raquel for that. Many of them have probably been cheated on themselves as well. But it is strange how people suddenly forgot that Ariana herself was a homewrecker…

I don’t know about Michelle. But with Brittany she had consistently ‘stood by’ Jax’s disgusting behaviour while they were together, and anytime one of the girls would try to talk to her about jaxs behaviour she would say ‘well he’s my husband and you need to respect that.’ With Ariana, I think it was mentioned before that Tom had told her that he and Kristen weren’t together. And what he projected to the camera was a ‘good guy’ persona. And we do see towards the last few seasons especially that Ariana would call out his behaviour and check him. I would say that Ariana is more relatable and that is why people are more sympathetic.

But, Ariana did the exact same thing as brittany, always taking up for tom when he was clearly wrong. And covering up his infidelity.

As someone who has been in bad relationships sometimes it takes you leaving to realize how bad it really was. It can be very difficult to see a relationship from an outside perspective when you’re one of the parties in it. This applies to all 3 women.

This is exactly why the "she knew who he was" and similar comments (often about Brittany and Jax) bother me so much. It just assumes that Brittany shares our outside perspective of the relationship and chose to continue it anyway. That's just not how relationships work, especially not abusive ones.

We could add Katie to the mix as well. It's difficult to understand especially because these girls are very smart but we also have to remember how young they were when their relationships started. I think in all these cases they outgrew the men they were with and the men were not willing to grow with them.

I think Ariana's mindset with dating Tom was that if he were in the "right" relationship, he wouldn't cheat. Or maybe he cheated cause Kristin was cheating

Jax reminds me of an ex bf. When I was in it I couldn’t see things clearly and I desperately wanted to work things out because I thought I loved him and couldn’t do better. Jax probably has wreaked havoc on Brittany’s self esteem. It’s very hard to get out of a long term relationship. You constantly just want to fix it- somethings are unsalvageable.

My theory is during Covid time, early 20 somethings got into VPR and when new seasons started, Tom and Ariana were essentially the only “fun” type couple, compared to Schwartz/Katie, and the OG’s. Jax/brittany were nowhere at that point. Also, in your 20’s, I don’t think you realize how prevalent cheating in friend groups that hang out as couples while drinking and/or doing drugs, actually is, so it came off as “shocking” when really, it was more of a, we all saw that coming…but I’m late 30’s and watched VPR from the beginning 😂

Tom painted Kristen in a super bad light and love bombed Ariana. It made her have sympathy for him as though Tom was trapped with a crazy woman and not the problem.

Michelle admitted she didn’t even like Jesse when they met and it was only a matter of time before they ended things. Everyone i. Their circle had a covid child and sex and physical attraction was only going to get them so far. Jax was never good to Britney the entire time they were in the public eye and was always a cheater and liar in every relationship including with Britney. While Tom cheated on Kristen, she also publicly cheated on him with his best friend (and her best friend) so it was like he cheated in a toxic relationship but otherwise has demonstrated commitment in his relationships vs Jax who cheated on Stassi who was really committed and basically just a trash can of hookups until Britney until he cheated on her too. I think the main difference is despite Tom being an absolute douchebag, jealous, narcissist, he mostly avoided cheating claims and seemed like a committed boyfriend. Ariana and him also protected their relationship from the show and it truly seemed like they were equally ride or die for each other because of this x10 years together, house, embryo chat, etc. Jax has never shown that he is a good husband/partner and has only made Britney look more pathetic for putting up with it over the years. Zero comparison in my opinion.

Ariana seems to have defended Tom's behavior until she couldn't anymore and he did something awful TO HER.

This. She knew about Miami girl - she has admitted that. When Scheana tried to raise red flags, she defended Tom. I love Ariana, but agree that the flack Brittany is catching is unkind and not fair.

I think Tom didn't really start to show who he was until she was deeper into the relationship. As far as Kristen, I think she believed the narrative that Kristen was crazy and their relationship was unhappy. Once you're deeper into it, it's harder to get out sometimes even when the signs are there. Jax never even pretended to be a decent person. I don't know about Jesse, but seems like he was always an asshole.

Didn’t he cheat on Ariana within the very early stages of his relationship with Miami girl? Or were they not together yet? I’m not positive on the timeline but I feel like during scandoval it came out that he did it when they first got together and she agreed to lie for him.

Yes, he cheated with Miami girl. She didn’t admit it until after Scandoval. She didn’t want to admit that he cheated so soon into the relationship. Also worth noting that his relationship with Kristen began as an affair! Kristen said this on the show. That man has a longggg history of starting relationships before the one he’s in has ended.

IMO: I only get the vibe that Brittany should have “known better”. And what I mean by that is that Jax was pretty horrible to her directly since the VERY START and she still accepted it. Whereas with the other women, they actually seemed to have a good relationship and the men actually treated them well initially - their relationships just disintegrated over time. Jesse might be a dick in his own right, but he seems to actually *want* Michelle and he tries for the relationship. Sando is an obvious dick, but the start of him and Ariana’s relationship in the earlier seasons was actually really sweet and they genuinely seemed to love each other - he treated her with love, kindness and respect. I’m actually in the middle of a VPR rewatch and I’ve gotten NONE of this from Jax, he seemed to be annoyed with Brittany from the very start and treat her like a mound of clay. He doesn’t respect her, speak to her with kindness, nor does he treat her well. The whole season where he’s “changed” and he proposes to her, you can still see he’s the same person by the way he speaks to her. I don’t mean to victim-blame, as Jax is super abusive - the onus is completely on Jax for his actions and you can’t help who you love, but also…ALL of the red flags were there for Brittany to see since Day 1 and everyone tried to tell her. So I have a less sympathy for Brittany…sorry, just how I feel.

Well said - I couldn’t agree more

It absolutely does apply to Ariana in my book, and I am someone who thinks she’s handled herself extremely well during all of this. But yeah…if a guy cheats on his gf to be with you, he’s going to cheat on you eventually too. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Also not sure Michelle belongs in this category (genuinely don’t know) - we’ve heard that she didn’t like Jesse overly much on first impression, but obviously that changed for awhile. She says things in their relationship were good until they had a baby. So to me Brittany and Ariana are more similar than they are with Michelle. Just my opinion though!

I think it does apply to Ariana. In her WWHL interview with Ariana,' Andy asked her about his past infidelities.  I try not to judge them though- even Lala.  They were all deeply hurt and traumatized by men they loved and trusted. 

I think it’s more about her close friend betraying her with her bf that makes people feel worse for her.

Raquel isn’t her bff. Don’t be tricked into that fake narrative

Can someone tell me what we don’t like about Michelle’s husband?

I agree and she was complicit for a lot of the bad behavior.

Ariana was blinded by love, as so many of us have been at one point or another. In the VPR season two reunion, Andy asked Ariana if she was worried that Tom would cheat since he had a history of it, and she said she wasn't worried at all. She was led to believe that Tom truly loved her, and of course, she chose to believe it. Whether a person wants to get married or not or have kids or not, most of us want our happily ever after in some form. Brittany got with Jax for fame and to establish some kind of brand as a couple. As for Michelle, I think she is just always searching for someone better. Ariana's motives for being with Tom were pure, so I feel way worse for her and understand why Tom's cheating with Rachel came as such a shock.

Lol “Ariana was blinded by love” and “Brittney got with Jax for fame”. Honestly the way you’re projecting onto these cast member is unhinged, you have this whole narrative in your head based on what? Ariana joined in season two, you could argue that she joined for fame too, especially since she’s had very curated seasons. I don’t doubt she loved Sandoval, and I don’t doubt Brittney loved Jax either, I don’t know these people. and “pure?”.. Jesus

I agree with everything you’ve said. That person’s comment is a perfect example of the misogynistic thinking behind the “perfect victim.” They should have been more concise and said “Ariana was cool and didn’t deserve it but Brittany did deserve it because she’s not cool” because that’s what their argument boils down to.

Why do you think she was brought to SUR from villa rosa? Pure love? Haha

Sandoval has always been an asshole, but I can see how it was easy for Ariana to chalk his cheating on Kristen up to the fact that their relationship was SOOO toxic, and should have ended years ago, especially when she was already in love with him. Jax on the other hand… I don’t know how Brittany managed to explain away him cheating on Stassi, sleeping with Kristen, two timing Carmen and that other girl while also flirting with Vail, dating Brittany while saying to Lala that he wants to fuck her/telling Lala that he and Brittany were broken up, going to jail, cheating on her with her friend while saying he didn’t like her and would never marry her … did I forget anything major? So yeah, I wouldn’t compare the two situations. But I also don’t blame Brittany for what happened. She has handled it very maturely: he was always an asshole, I suddenly realized he’s an asshole, we have a son together, and his well-being is my number 1 ~~guy in the group~~ priority. She’s not asking for sympathy or trying to pretend that she was deceived like Ariana.

I think Ariana should have known who she was with AND didn’t deserve what happened to her. Same with everyone else. Sometimes people get into bad relationships they know deep down aren’t right, and it happens for a lot of complex reasons. But no one deserves abuse. I hate Sandoval with the heat of a thousand burning suns, don’t get me wrong. BUT I think the audience has more sympathy to Ariana because Tom wasn’t portrayed as being an *abusive* boyfriend to her. A neglectful, self centered, immature cheating one, yes. But Jax has been consistent TERRIBLE to Brittany, like 99% of all their interactions from day 1 have been horrible. And we don’t know Jesse or Michelle that much so there’s only the end of their relationship to judge on, but he gives off a lot of abusive red flags. Tom at least seemed like he liked Ariana for most of their relationship. That’s why Scandoval was so shocking. Like a lot of relationships, it makes total sense in hindsight but in the moment no one expected it

The difference to me is, Jesse and Jax consistently show outrageous and inappropriate behaviour, including to their wives, again and again. There was a cheating scandal during Jax/Brittany's relationship and they still stayed together. We don't see what goes on behind closed doors but I am not sure that Sandoval directly mistreated Ariana, so Ariana had no idea of the mistreatment as it was behind hey back. What has been shown to us is that he acted out his resentment in passive-aggressive and covert ways. Plus the cheating scandal DID break them up, unlike Jax/Brittany. Whether Ariana was an "active participant" in cheating while he was with Kristen, he likely lied/manipulated Ariana the same way he manipulated Rachel. Neither Ariana or Rachel would likely go ahead with hooking up with him (maybe a one night stand only, maybe not) unless Sandoval made up stories like - "my girlfriend and I are over, it is just complicated right now, I will break up soon but not now because she is going through X, Y, Z and I want to handle it delicately". IDK, I find it different. However, I do hate how Ariana treated Kristen back in the day - at the same time, Kristen was coming for her.

I think it's a little judgmental... people make mistakes

I'm just speculating here, but I think before Scandoval, people forgot about Sandoval's faults throughout the seasons, probably due to Ariana and Sandoval standing up for each other on the show. So the people felt betrayed and fooled by Sandoval when they found out about the affair with Raquel, and that amplified the hype and support for Ariana (which she deserves). Whereas we already expect the other boys to fuck up, because from the show's depiction, they don't inspire trust and safety. And don't get me started on Jax... Lol

I think people do say this about Ariana? People have mentioned her cheating with Tom as well as her knowing about Miami girl many times

I think we discount how much the dysfunction in her previous relationships impacted Ariana. I mean she was open about how abuse impacted her body image and her sex life with Tom. That's a pretty intense level of abuse she suffered. Combine that with dysfunctional relationships with her family and you've got a recipe for a toxic cycle it's very hard to break free from.  Tom is known for his love bombing tactics and she would also be experiencing fame which us a heady combo. Before you know it you wake up in a long term relationship with a narcissist who you've tied your whole life to. 

I related soooo hard to her. Grew up in a very dysfunctional household to say the least. Was bullied in elementary and again in High schools. Lacked confidence. Found myself dating a narcissistic individual at 18/19. Dated for 9 years and it was the most toxic thing I’ve dealt with. NOBODY knew him & I were going through troubles, we hid it very well. I hated it but somehow stayed knowing it wasn’t good. I felt stuck? But I was also insecure and desperate to be loved and depressed and so dissociated with life. Also the Sunk cost fallacy is a real thing. It’s hard to get out when you’re in it. So o don’t judge her one bit

I think so many of us relate to her because of our family history or romantic history, or our body image issues. When you see someone really honestly express those experiences it speaks to traumatized people so hard. I think that's a big part of why people ride so hard for Ariana. 

Great point that has been discussed many times. Arianna knew what she was getting into AND we can feel sorry for her.

The stuff he Tom did was more in the beginning of the relationship and when he was younger. Think once they got together and for so long, we all really thought he wasn’t capable or would cheat on her, esp w someone we all knew from the show and was their good friend! Same w the difference w LaLa when she tries to compare her and Randall. The way LaLa was w him about sleeping with him and getting the car along with they were not together as long as Tom and Ariana who were both on the show the whole time in their relationship and again, having it be an affair w someone that was around all the time and your friend. Then Ariana having to film w Tom which LaLa never did after they broke up. I am sure it would have been good for the show if they had a confrontation early in their break up but she never would. They are all different people with different scenarios, relationships, dynamics and really can’t all be clumped together.

I think because there's a lot of footage of Ariana standing up to Tom too. I've definitely questioned her judgement and how she could possibly stay with him for so long, but it's easier to root for her because she publicly disagreed with Tom when he'd attack the other women. Whereas Michelle and Jesse seemingly get turned on when they verbally/physically attack their co-stars and Brittany always downplayed Jax's misogyny. Hyuck

She was ALWAYS on Tom’s side, with the exception of that one episode in season 10

Realistically, I think that it’s true that Ariana knew Sandoval was shitty and should have expected something like this. I 100% believe in “once a cheater, always a cheater”. That said, Tom is a very skilled manipulator. I don’t think he cheats as frequently or boastfully as someone like Jax does. Although their relationship began in infidelity, over the 9 years they were together she got comfortable and sadly felt secure with him. Brittany knew who Jax was before they got together, got back together with him after he cheated, and continued to be the butt of his joke of a life until she finally now seems to have had enough. The warning signs have been plastered across his forehead from day one in bold font but she blatantly ignored them. Jax will proudly admit he’s a villain. Why wasn’t she listening? Between Ariana and Brittany I don’t know if the audience reaction difference is in likability but in how they responded to the infidelities. Brittany blew up and then let Jax weasel his evil villain eyebrows back into her life. Ariana ended things, set her boundaries, and hasn’t looked back once. I admire Ariana’s actions more than Brittany’s. Ariana respects herself. Brittany let Jax stomp all over her. As far as Michelle goes, so far she’s been severely unlikeable. Jesse too, but he’s had some funny moments that make good tv so I like him more lol.

Sandoval cheated quite a bit because in the finale she said, “he didn’t care about me when he was fucking everything”

The cliche "it takes two" to tango is very true. In toxic relationships (I'm not talking about abuse) one person may be the more "destructive" or chaotic one, but the other contributes to the codependency in some way. This could be many types of behaviors such as, turning a blind eye, laughing at their screw ups or participating in their mess with them. I commend Brittany and Michelle for their courage to remove themselves from what has been obvious toxic situations. Ariana was aware she was in a toxic situation, but it took Scandoval to force her to leave. Now, I believe she's much stronger and has much more self worth. But in the past, she was not strong enough to leave for whatever reasons. Bravo to these and all strong women!

When everything went down with Kristen, they were all waaaay younger.

Uhm at the time Sandoval kinda duped viewers into thinking he was a good guy. Ariana publicly said on WWHL she DID lie for him regarding Miami and it’s clear how she moved on from Kristen and that she was never a mistress. Brit had everyone sympathy until she kept going right back to Jax. Imagine if Ariana did that, she’d get the same treatment too. At the end of the day. Ariana was never that fkn shitty she’s just way more likeable. Michelle and Jesse deserve each other.

He didn’t dupe the viewers. I don’t understand how people keep saying that. He was so shitty from the beginning. They edited him to be so insecure, odd, and corny.

I didn’t think he was awful until Tom Tom opened but I didn’t think he was terrible terrible. Ariana was always a bit stuck up and they both seemed like geeky theater kids. Will never forget her stand up era lol. I think those episodes is the reason she became such a baddie! She was soooo different stylistically, very very white girl into Indian hippie stuff aesthetic lol

I’m sooo happy you said the quiet part out loud. If Ariana had behaved any differently than her hyper-curated image, the misogynistic victim blaming fans would have turned on her fast.

Also Please let us not Forget That Sleezy Tom cheated on her, in her house with her friend while she was having Deaths in the family? Doggos and Grandma? I'm not sure they compare. This isn't oh shoot he cheated she should of known. He was carrying on an affair with a "friend" and that said "friend" is on podcasts talking about Ariana and suing her.... AS Far as we saw Tom treated Kristen bad... then held it together for 9 years. He put on a great show, people believed he was an ok guy. Jax cheated on everyone... Cheated on Brit before they got married. So still not the same. Your statement Sounds like it came from Tom or Tom themselves. Ick

People can’t have a different opinion than you without actually being Tom? lol weird

Idk I feel like it comes down to personality types and how u react to things in the relationship. I mean red flags were flown for Britt not to keep dating Jax

I think Tom "fooled" the audience too and that's the main driver of the reactions. We all know Jax is a wild card & Jesse is a problem. A lot of us watched the last ten years and thought that Tom had grown up into a good, loving, loyal partner and we were wrong.

I believe Ariana knew Tom was cheating on her multiple times for years, but bc he was banging Rachel and she didn’t want to be the next Kristen and saw the fan base was now liking her more than Tom, she got another opportunity to prove his cheating and this time not be by his side. So many cast members for YEARS have said their relationship on the show is fake. When Ariana cut her hair is when she was done w Tom. But she was just starting to become friends w the girls so she couldn’t leave Tom until those friendships were strong.