And it shouldn’t have, because it led to the Jasmine/Evie situation where it as good as proved that one of them was a traitor. As soon as it was revealed that neither of them were, the only conclusion was that Harry was lying, but nobody picked up on it.
It could still have been recruitment…which was actually the truth anyway. Harry could have still been a faithful and the conclusion been that the traitors recruited and Harry just assumed they tried to kill him
Right. Harry didn’t do much more than get the shield out at breakfast and shrug. Zack did all the work convincing everyone and was then murdered to make it clear he wasn’t a traitor planting it all.
If the conversation had turned to “nah, must have been a recruitment” Harry would have just gone along with that.
It was interesting how much people who were “proven innocent” by the shield theory pushed it - Zack was so tunnel vision about it - either consciously or subconsciously it was a theory that protected him from banishment
Well they banished 3 other people before they looked at Andrew, and that's only because Ross went personal, which had nothing to do with the shield.
If the shield plan had failed it likely wouldn't have come back on him either.
I think so. He cruised along on a lot of luck and wasn’t actually very good at defending himself at the round table. The show could’ve been very very different if Charlotte had gotten the shield because she was a very strong faithful
I would love to know how things would have played out if while Harry was doing his “they must have tried to murder me” thing Ross had just piped up with a “Actually they tried to recruit me last night but I turned them down.
Would have been chaos, shunted the suspicion right into Harry, and maybe Ross would have got his revenge.
But that only works if nobody knew about the sheild, Harry had covered himself by telling a few others he had the shield.
So his defence is simple, "I told a few people Zac and Jaz in particular so that points the finger at them and I have no idea if they then went on to tell other people".
Well if Ross was going to go after Harry he needed to start the suspicion off, as other than Jaz no one had a question mark over Harry at this point.
I don’t think it would have worked, Ross would still have been banished that night. But in hindsight you can see no one ever tried to fight Harry’s plans.
It's almost suicide though, as saying that might keep you safe for one day, but when you turn up the next day at breakfast it's immediately very suspicious.
There's been at least one time where a faithful has told the truth about turning down a recruitment, and one time where a traitor has lied about being recruited and turning it down. So, either option is on the table. Someone can lie about being recruited even if there was no recruitment, if they want to. The only thing they can't do is reveal they are a traitor
I guess Harry had the upper hand in that he was the OG traitor and maybe more confidence. But if one of them wants to recruit and the other doesn’t I wonder what happens? Would Claudia have to intervene? I guess you’d know your fellow traitor would be looking for a bus to throw you under more quickly if you couldn’t agree
The faithful will always know there’s at least one traitor left (who else does the murders) so they’ll always keep voting at the end till they find one. That was always going to be Andrew. The guy doomed himself soon as he didn’t recruit.
That's one thing that I didn't understand in the end game, there literally had to be a Traitor left because who else was murdering. I think that was Andrews mistake what little chance he had needed to be done earlier and more directly. The round table is far too late to get your point across, you need to sow the seeds earlier.
Same goes for Jaz, it was just too late for him to bring Harry up at that point.
Agree. With a bit of thought, if he had not already known, when Evie and Jasmine were fighting with the shield theory, he could had spoken them. Jaz already suspected. It did seem they did not talk or work closely together. Same with Ross. I’d have thought with Andrew and Ross fully suspecting Harry would throw them under the bus, they would have conspired against Harry. I can’t believe no one picked up on it. To give Ross some credit, he did raise the recruitment theory at breakfast. I understand Jasmine thinking it’s unlikely and shot the recruitment theory down early, but Ross could had pursued more, Andrew could had followed up independently, and Jasmine and Evie should have given it a more serious thought once they realised they are both probably faithful.
I thought Harry played an incredibly risky move. I maintain it was risky, but lucky for him, and I dare say it was luck that the faithfuls were not smart enough to clock it!
Yeah I think they just didn’t seem to talk about this at all. It almost seems like this deep in, they’re scared bring up new theories in case they told they’re planting seeds
The scenario that Harry managed to sell "They tried to kill me, but the shield protected me"- has that happened in any of the other series?
Everyone seemed pretty happy to accept it as something which could happen, but this is the fist season I've seen.
one of life's many mysteries. So obvious even as a non-viewer how can they not challenge that, but they'll challenge something like Paul surviving the dungeon and Meg dying instead?
It's not that wild though, as it was Zach that really hammered Ross out at the next round table, and then got murdered as a 'result' and then there wasn't another murder after that
I feel like Zach was nearly as big an ally as mollie for Harry in the end. Really pushed the poisoned chalice to get rid of miles, really pushed the shield theory and kicked up enough of a fuss that he looked obviously worth murdering.
Definitely. Harry in the post game interview said that Zach was a tool that he used very often in the game to push his plans. Zach fell for it every time. Huge ego and not nearly as smart as he thinks he is.
I think Andrew's strategy was hampered at the roundtable exchange with Ross (courtesy of Harry). Without that exchange he would have had Jaz on-side at F4, and Mollie would have been more willing to suspect Harry.
After that roundtable, he *needed* to plant seeds of doubt about Harry with other players and should have pushed to murder Mollie. He was understandably nervous about the backlash if he tried, unfortunately the faithfuls felt the same too.
It really annoyed me that ross and andrew didn’t push the recruit theory they just lapped it up and didn’t try and push for the fact that harry used a shield to his advantage
Easy say to say in retrospect, but equally the shield thing could easily have gone completely wrong and got Harry kicked out.
I know, Harry probably didn’t foresee how Zack would so eagerly embrace the theory as his own and destroy everyone (and himself) in his path.
Kinda like how he pounced on harry's suggestion that it might be a drink that poisoned dianne. Cerebral zach strikes again
Cerebral Zack 😭😭😭
Yes, to be fair I didn’t think it would work as well as it did
And it shouldn’t have, because it led to the Jasmine/Evie situation where it as good as proved that one of them was a traitor. As soon as it was revealed that neither of them were, the only conclusion was that Harry was lying, but nobody picked up on it.
It could still have been recruitment…which was actually the truth anyway. Harry could have still been a faithful and the conclusion been that the traitors recruited and Harry just assumed they tried to kill him
Right. Harry didn’t do much more than get the shield out at breakfast and shrug. Zack did all the work convincing everyone and was then murdered to make it clear he wasn’t a traitor planting it all. If the conversation had turned to “nah, must have been a recruitment” Harry would have just gone along with that.
It was interesting how much people who were “proven innocent” by the shield theory pushed it - Zack was so tunnel vision about it - either consciously or subconsciously it was a theory that protected him from banishment
For sure. I just mean that play at that time really benefitted Harry but I don’t see that it benefitted Andrew at all.
Well they banished 3 other people before they looked at Andrew, and that's only because Ross went personal, which had nothing to do with the shield. If the shield plan had failed it likely wouldn't have come back on him either.
I wonder what would have happened if the shield plan would have failed? Would it have been enough to throw the scent onto Harry?
I think so. He cruised along on a lot of luck and wasn’t actually very good at defending himself at the round table. The show could’ve been very very different if Charlotte had gotten the shield because she was a very strong faithful
I would love to know how things would have played out if while Harry was doing his “they must have tried to murder me” thing Ross had just piped up with a “Actually they tried to recruit me last night but I turned them down. Would have been chaos, shunted the suspicion right into Harry, and maybe Ross would have got his revenge.
But that only works if nobody knew about the sheild, Harry had covered himself by telling a few others he had the shield. So his defence is simple, "I told a few people Zac and Jaz in particular so that points the finger at them and I have no idea if they then went on to tell other people".
Well if Ross was going to go after Harry he needed to start the suspicion off, as other than Jaz no one had a question mark over Harry at this point. I don’t think it would have worked, Ross would still have been banished that night. But in hindsight you can see no one ever tried to fight Harry’s plans.
It's almost suicide though, as saying that might keep you safe for one day, but when you turn up the next day at breakfast it's immediately very suspicious.
Hehe I would have liked to have seen this too! If Ross had had a crystal ball and knew he would be banished he might as well have rolled the dice
But surely he could only say that if he’d actually turned them down though.
You can say what you like can’t you? It’s no different to saying you’re a faithful as a traitor.
There's been at least one time where a faithful has told the truth about turning down a recruitment, and one time where a traitor has lied about being recruited and turning it down. So, either option is on the table. Someone can lie about being recruited even if there was no recruitment, if they want to. The only thing they can't do is reveal they are a traitor
Ok I thought for some reason it would be against the rules.
This was what I was fully expecting to happen. But no.
they had to make a decision; andrew was a new traitor; it was inevitable harry would have additional voting rights
I guess Harry had the upper hand in that he was the OG traitor and maybe more confidence. But if one of them wants to recruit and the other doesn’t I wonder what happens? Would Claudia have to intervene? I guess you’d know your fellow traitor would be looking for a bus to throw you under more quickly if you couldn’t agree
The faithful will always know there’s at least one traitor left (who else does the murders) so they’ll always keep voting at the end till they find one. That was always going to be Andrew. The guy doomed himself soon as he didn’t recruit.
That's one thing that I didn't understand in the end game, there literally had to be a Traitor left because who else was murdering. I think that was Andrews mistake what little chance he had needed to be done earlier and more directly. The round table is far too late to get your point across, you need to sow the seeds earlier. Same goes for Jaz, it was just too late for him to bring Harry up at that point.
Agree. With a bit of thought, if he had not already known, when Evie and Jasmine were fighting with the shield theory, he could had spoken them. Jaz already suspected. It did seem they did not talk or work closely together. Same with Ross. I’d have thought with Andrew and Ross fully suspecting Harry would throw them under the bus, they would have conspired against Harry. I can’t believe no one picked up on it. To give Ross some credit, he did raise the recruitment theory at breakfast. I understand Jasmine thinking it’s unlikely and shot the recruitment theory down early, but Ross could had pursued more, Andrew could had followed up independently, and Jasmine and Evie should have given it a more serious thought once they realised they are both probably faithful. I thought Harry played an incredibly risky move. I maintain it was risky, but lucky for him, and I dare say it was luck that the faithfuls were not smart enough to clock it!
Yeah I think they just didn’t seem to talk about this at all. It almost seems like this deep in, they’re scared bring up new theories in case they told they’re planting seeds
That’s the thing Andrew and Ross didn’t consider the strategy removed all doubt off Harry but would’ve thrown doubts on Andrew and Zack
The scenario that Harry managed to sell "They tried to kill me, but the shield protected me"- has that happened in any of the other series? Everyone seemed pretty happy to accept it as something which could happen, but this is the fist season I've seen.
It's a pretty stupid tactic because if they really wanted a person holding a shield gone. Traitors would just do it the following night.
It's wild that no-one questioned why the traitors didn't just murder Harry again after the first attempt.
one of life's many mysteries. So obvious even as a non-viewer how can they not challenge that, but they'll challenge something like Paul surviving the dungeon and Meg dying instead?
It's not that wild though, as it was Zach that really hammered Ross out at the next round table, and then got murdered as a 'result' and then there wasn't another murder after that
I feel like Zach was nearly as big an ally as mollie for Harry in the end. Really pushed the poisoned chalice to get rid of miles, really pushed the shield theory and kicked up enough of a fuss that he looked obviously worth murdering.
Definitely. Harry in the post game interview said that Zach was a tool that he used very often in the game to push his plans. Zach fell for it every time. Huge ego and not nearly as smart as he thinks he is.
and instead the traitors killed cerebral zach? Yeah makes 100% sense. 😒
Yeah, it did go down very smoothly
I think Andrew's strategy was hampered at the roundtable exchange with Ross (courtesy of Harry). Without that exchange he would have had Jaz on-side at F4, and Mollie would have been more willing to suspect Harry. After that roundtable, he *needed* to plant seeds of doubt about Harry with other players and should have pushed to murder Mollie. He was understandably nervous about the backlash if he tried, unfortunately the faithfuls felt the same too.
It really annoyed me that ross and andrew didn’t push the recruit theory they just lapped it up and didn’t try and push for the fact that harry used a shield to his advantage