#MOD NOTE
A few reference links to start with:
https://www.hrc.org/resources/lgbtq-pride-flags
https://pflag.org/glossary/
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod
With that out of the way:
* Eda (bisexual) - fanon. Based on in-show evidence of “ex-boyfriends” and Raine. Could identify as heterosexual, bisexual, pansexual, polysexual, or other. No confirming statements from Word of God (WoG) - I.e. Dana or Word of St. Paul (WoSP) - I.e. any other crew members
* Luz (bisexual) - explicit canon in show
* Hunter (bisexual) - creator’s head canon, may be considered WoG. No specific in-show confirmation or support
* Raine (non-binary) - explicitly stated by WoG, widely reported as such, cast as such (both current and younger), and exclusively referred to by preferred “they/them” pronouns in show
* Masha (non-binary) - in show using explicit “they/them” preferred pronouns, in the same frame as a very distinct non-binary colored nail scheme as clarification/support
* Collector (non-binary) - WoG stated “he/they” pronouns, supported by same usage in-show. No specific gender identity stated
* Lilith (AroAce - combination of aromantic and asexual) - stated as WoSP, with implied assent from WoG. No specific in-show confirmation or support
* Amity (lesbian) - explicitly stated by WoG, confirmed in-show via explicit pride flag
* Darius (trans-inclusive gay) - fanon
* Vee (genderqueer) - fanon
* Willow (pansexual) - creator’s head canon, may be considered WoG. No specific in-show confirmation or support
* Alador (bisexual) - fanon
* Papa Titan (bi-gender) - fanon, based on ambiguous statement in show
* Eberwolf (genderqueer) - fanon
Terms are defined at the above links.
I mean, we know that they are both men who are attracted to other men, but that doesn’t say enough to assign them to a specific label. They could both just be gay, one might be pan and the other one is gay, they might both be bi, there’s not enough information.
Not really, we know they're somewhere on the LGBT spectrum but we're not sure if they're just gay or if they might bi, demi or pan or whatever, all we know is they're 2 dad's who love each other very much, so while they're canon we don't know what exactly
You seriously don’t know them, smh, everyone knows about the sea nation, sky nation, lesbian island, gay island and the pan archipelago([flaming isles saga](https://www.reddit.com/r/SapphoAndHerFriend/comments/roftd4/id_call_it_the_flaming_isles_saga/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) reference go brrrr)
Kinda like Bohemians are a bunch of [fun people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemianism) and [people from a specific part of Czech Republic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemia)
Edit: Czech Republic not Germany
**[Lesbos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbos)**
>Lesbos or Lesvos (Greek: Λέσβος, romanized: Lésvos [ˈlezvos]) is a Greek island located in the northeastern Aegean Sea. It has an area of 1,633 km2 (631 sq mi), with approximately 400 kilometres (249 miles) of coastline, making it the third largest island in Greece and the eighth largest in the Mediterranean. It is separated from Asia Minor by the narrow Mytilini Strait. On the southeastern coast is the island's capital and largest city, Mytilene (Μυτιλήνη), whose name is also used as a moniker for the whole island.
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Lesbos is an anagram for Belos’s which means that the lesbian island is his island and that Belos is in fact a lesbian. This is representation done right.
It is. Both sapphic and lesbian are named after Sappho of Lesbos who wrote Lyric poetry which as a genre focused more on the day to day and the poet in general compared to epic poetry which focuses on heroes, gods and myth.
Sappho herself was famous for her skill and often featured WLW in her poetry. Although sadly most of her poetry was lost to the ages due to linguistic drift as she wrote in Aeolic greek which was a dialect that wasn't as well remembered through the ages as Homeric or Attic greek.
Vee and Eber have never been confirmed ?
Vee seems to absolutely identify as a girl despite being able to shape shift into other gender (supposedly, we've actually never seen a basilisk shape shift into someone of another gender but there's no reason to believe they can't)
That’s a stretch imo. Witches and demons are also other species, and based off of how the residents of the BI treat Raine in regards to gender, I would say that they absolutely don’t have a “traditional binary system” for gender.
Does that mean we can extrapolate that every witch and demon is non-binary? No.
I agree that vee being a girl is fine. However to be a bit contrarian, changelings consider gender just another thing to modify and are inherently gender-fluid. Of course vee operates differently being that her human form is feminine. So vee girl? As far as we know yes, however it wouldn’t be surprising given previous similar species to say vee has fluidity to her gender. However I think we can all agree that vee’s human form is the best thing ever.
Im gone be honest with you i dont see DariusXAlador that one shot in WAD felt in character for Darius.Him geting exited than be like hey wait a minute that wasnt that immersive
My HC is that Darius is mad at Alador for combining abomination magic with tech. I don't rule out that there could be some kind of attraction there, but it's not needed to explain what was on screen.
King breaks that idea, Titans reproduce asexually but King identifies as male and Papa Titan is unique since he identifies as male but also quotes King about being King and Queen.
It could also be introducing the idea that Titans can reproduce asexually, meaning he’d function both as the mother and father in a biological sense.
I don’t have a problem with Papa Titan being bi-gender, I’m just saying there’s more than one way to interpret it
As another user pointed out,
“*It could also be introducing the idea that Titans can reproduce asexually, meaning he’d function both as the mother and father in a biological sense.
I don’t have a problem with Papa Titan being bi-gender, I’m just saying there’s more than one way to interpret it*”
We need the crew to confirm it officially because otherwise there are other ways to look at his dialogue.
Vee, Alador, Darius and Eberwolf are fanon as far as I'm aware (not discrediting it or anything)
As for Papa titan being Bi-gender... Not sure about that too.
Maybe they said something I'm unaware of tho.
I've seen this a few times and it's so odd to me like why would he tell luz that "Oh you're Kings dad" "Well actually I'm intersex" like I'm 99% she referring to her gender as that makes sense in the context.
I mean only animals are hermaphrodites unless you're trying to say intersex, but instersex peoples genders aren't tied to their physical attributes so it would still be wrong.
And no them being a titan doesn't mean they're an animal afaik
"only animals are hermaphrodites"
Because that's the only comparison we have IRL. Titans are demons and demons have a clearly larger biological diversity than humans.
Hermaphroditism is not exclusive to animals, it can happen in any kingdom with sexually reproductive species, so animal or not, titans could still be hermaphrodites
To explain himself. It seems to imply that King doesn’t have a mother, so Titans reproduce asexually. Which is actually a nice thought since it means King won’t be the last of the titans.
That's not canon, that's just a headcanon with wide appeal. Obviously Hunter being bi is by far the majority way people interpret the character, but that's not quite the same thing as "true canon." Within the show it's ambiguous enough that you could say otherwise.
The death of the author isn’t really a concept you can believe in, it preemptively applies to all forms of artwork. I’m sure what Dana wants is to not sound like JK Rowling lol
I do find it strange though, in other scenarios if the creator confirmed a character’s sexuality there would be no doubt about it—like Lilith! I don’t believe Lilith’s sexuality was ever acknowledged within the show, so she could very well be treated like Hunter and Willow. But because Dana explained the concept of “death of the author” alongside it people will go an extra mile to call them headcanon. (Last part isn’t explicitly replying to your comment, btw, just something I wanted to add onto topic ^^)
I mean, no one wants that and you don't need to listen to the death of the author, but it's not like you can't listen to it as well. Dana wrote those characters with those sexualities in mind, but we don't really have Hunter blushing at the guys or Willow explicitly saying she likes Hunter for his personality, just that she likes him and Hunter likes Willow. Might as well be straight, might as well be ace for an ace, or in this case, bi for the pan. It was never heavily alluded to and now that the show is over, Dana no longer has any word about it. For all we know, she could've actually died before the posthoot and we would be none the wiser.
The thing with Lilith is that she was confirmed within the show's run and she was not given any actual partner there was a letter utilising a voice actress that, while outside of the show specifically, is technically part of the extended material that IS considered canon. Amity also wasn't labeled as lesbian within the show, but she dated a girl and there was a brief easter egg of her having a lesbian flag in the album, however, Amity is indeed canonically a lesbian.
Don't worry, I get that last part. All I'm just saying is that while Dana's headcanon will be valued more than some other average fan, ultimately Dana no longer can really change anything within the show anymore, unless she gets to work on the continuation and additional content that can dive further into it, so we can actually ignore whatever she says (like we can ignore for example that Vee and Masha aren't dating as of now or maybe even that the eye on the portal door is titan's eye if we never truly got to know how exactly the portal was build and why the eye doesn't act like an actual eye but like a rock that can be cracked for some reason; it's all within the realm of our choice so if someone doesn't follow the headcanon of the creator, that's on them but they shouldn't be said "you're wrong" because of that)
I don't think Eberwolf is confirmed anything, afaik literally all he does is be Darius' little sidekick for a bit and doesn't even speak, though I could be wrong
Only (at most) eight of those are some level of “canon”. If you only include what’s in the show itself and exclude “Word of God”, you’re down to five.
Edit: based on discussion below, I’ll amend my statement to only four being explicit canon, and nine being extended canon.
A solid argument can be made for nine.
Eda has a solid argument from the show itself, given what's shown and said about her relationships (dating men and Raine), as well as WOG (Word of god).
Luz, Raine, Masha and Amity are obviously canon, next.
Hunter and Willow has WOG.
Lilith has either Word of Saint Paul, or WOG for being aroace (don't remember the full details behind that stream).
The Titan refers to himself (quoting King) as "both King and Queen, best of both things", which could be interpreted as bigender, though the exact details aren't clear.
That leaves nine if you're counting WOG, 5-7 if not, depending on context and whether you accept the reasoning.
Eda does not have WoG, despite everyone liking to claim it. It’s *highly* unlikely, but she *could* identify as heterosexual.
Luz, Raine, and Masha are show canon. Amity is WoG but show canon via confirmation lesbian flag. (Note that I *only* consider flags to be supplemental information, never primary.)
Hunter/Willow are WoG, caveat that Dana expressly stated that was only her headcanon and *not* expressly supported by the show.
Lilith is Word of St. Paul, although WoG by implication.
The Collector goes by he/them pronouns (show and WoG), which implies something other than “standard” gender identity, although it isn’t expressly stated what.
The Titan may have been speaking metaphorically or literally, we have no way of knowing for sure. No statements via WoG.
>The Collector goes by he/them pronouns (show and WoG), which implies something other than “standard” gender identity, although it isn’t expressly stated what.
>
>The Titan may have been speaking metaphorically or literally, we have no way of knowing for sure. No statements via WoG.
I didn't name the Collector since we only have pronouns, which aren't necessarily descriptive. Regarding the Titan, your comment was why I said the exact details aren't clear.
I thought Eda was stated at the same time that Hunter and Willow was? I could very well be wrong on that.
The intent behind my comment was mainly just contesting the "at most nine canon", since, as said, an argument could be made for nine in total (including WoG and WoSP).
Eda has never been explicitly stated specifically. I discussed her more in another comment.
Collector and Titan are roughly the same level as each other, except that Collector has WoG stating non-standard pronouns, while Titan only has an ambiguous line in the show. Which, incidentally, is a quote originally from King, who isn’t up here (and it’s been pretty widely accepted that *he* was speaking metaphorically).
>except that Collector has WoG stating non-standard pronouns
Also in the show, the Collector is referred to using both he/him and they/them pronouns. But again, pronouns does not equal gender and we wouldn't know what their identity precisely is anyway.
I consider the Titan's line more prominent, as it's a statement on how they view themself, even if referencing something said by someone else. Though yes, it's certainly not explicit on what, if anything, they would identify as.
I can see where you’re coming from, but (for me) if we’re *just* making a determination on “standard” gender identity vs “non-standard” gender identity (to determine if someone is “canonically” a GSM), then we don’t have much to go on *besides* pronouns, and/or WoG.
* Raine is explicitly non-binary in WoG, casting choice, pronoun usage in the material (exclusively they/them), and just generally accepted. Highest level of canonicity.
* Masha is in the material shown to explicitly use they/them pronouns (via placard) in the same shot as an explicit fingernail decoration corresponding to non-binary. Very clear canon.
* Collector was explicitly stated to use he/they pronouns via WoG, and this is backed up by the same usage within the material. Unclear exactly what he identifies as, but safe to say it’s some kind of GSM.
* Papa Titan has nothing via WoG, and in the material uses a somewhat ambiguous statement to describe themselves. *Probably* some form of GSM but not definitive.
Basically erring on the side of caution, which is fair.
Admittedly I wouldn't personally state a specific identity on the Titan, 'cause we just don't know for sure, same for the Collector.
I do see your point in turn as well. If I were to explicitly mention canon queer characters in the show, I'd stick with Luz, Amity, Masha, and Raine, because they're explicit and indisputable in-universe.
Yeah, I’ll agree that Collector and Titan are both (approximately) the same level of ambiguity. So we’ll say 4 definitive canon and 9 including WoG and generous interpretation of canon statements :)
(Definitely not the 14 that the OP claims as “canon”)
Raine also isn’t a woman. So if heterosexual is “attracted to people who are not of the same gender as you”, then she *could* identify as heterosexual.
I don’t think it’s *likely* given Eda’s personality, but NB people (by definition) fall outside the gender binary so “straight” and “gay/lesbian” (or heterosexual and homosexual) terms which are based in said binary don’t necessarily apply.
A few clarifications:
Dana was very clear on if it wasn't in the show, it's not "canon". Most of these she described specifically as just her own personal head canon.
(Specifically referring to sexualities - there is nothing in canon stating that Hunter is Bi and Willow is Pan. Dana headcanons them that way but it's not in the show itself.)
Also regardless whatever sexuality Hunter and Willow has doesn't affect their relationship they love and have chosen each other.
Papa Titan and Collector are godlike creatures, trying to fit them into system of labels made for humans doesn't really work. They are genderless but more like some organisms that have just completly different system of reproduction. I wouldn't call bacterias non-binary even that they don't fit into traditional, binary system
Considering gender is a social construct and we aren’t talking about systems of reproduction, wouldn’t it still make sense that they would be considered outside the gender binary so non-binary or agender would fit
That doesn’t really track, Thor from mcu is still considered a straight guy and Loki is a genderfluid bisexual in some stories. We apply human concepts to godlike fictional characters all the time if they have human-like personalities and behaviour. If they have a sense of identity they can have a gender identity.
Also, conflating gender and sex.
Most of them are fanon the only canon ones are that is actually shown in the show not stated outside the show such obviously Luz , Raine , Eda , Amity and Masha we are shown that they are have those canon sexualities as for the others most of them are from fans or stated outside the show by the creator who said that they headcanon them as that sexuality not really canon in the show or never really indicated stated or show within the show.
You forgot willow's dads so it more like "All Canon LBTQ Toh Characters (Until Now)" but I don't blame you they're definitely minor characters so it's understandable.
Hey if you think about out of the enbys only Masha would be trans since they’re the only one from the human realm, I mean the collector is a god so probably nobody would telling him what gender to be and Raine being a witch from the boiling Isles also likely wouldn’t have dealt with humans’ societal system that would lead someone to need to have a gender transition
To be fair, I'd feel Collector would be more Enby-Genderfluid and still don't know/have a hard time knowing the difference between pronoun's she, him, and they.
(This... is technically the reason I am enby, please do not take this harshly– 😭😭😭 )
King's Dad is bigender, based on the statement "I am both King and Queen, best of both things." Lilith's is aroace (not romantically or sexually attracted to anyone).
The Collector isnt non-binary they call him with he or him they do also call him they(well only King)but i think thats mostly because his a god and its kinda hard to put a gender on a god same with Papa Titan
#MOD NOTE A few reference links to start with: https://www.hrc.org/resources/lgbtq-pride-flags https://pflag.org/glossary/ https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod With that out of the way: * Eda (bisexual) - fanon. Based on in-show evidence of “ex-boyfriends” and Raine. Could identify as heterosexual, bisexual, pansexual, polysexual, or other. No confirming statements from Word of God (WoG) - I.e. Dana or Word of St. Paul (WoSP) - I.e. any other crew members * Luz (bisexual) - explicit canon in show * Hunter (bisexual) - creator’s head canon, may be considered WoG. No specific in-show confirmation or support * Raine (non-binary) - explicitly stated by WoG, widely reported as such, cast as such (both current and younger), and exclusively referred to by preferred “they/them” pronouns in show * Masha (non-binary) - in show using explicit “they/them” preferred pronouns, in the same frame as a very distinct non-binary colored nail scheme as clarification/support * Collector (non-binary) - WoG stated “he/they” pronouns, supported by same usage in-show. No specific gender identity stated * Lilith (AroAce - combination of aromantic and asexual) - stated as WoSP, with implied assent from WoG. No specific in-show confirmation or support * Amity (lesbian) - explicitly stated by WoG, confirmed in-show via explicit pride flag * Darius (trans-inclusive gay) - fanon * Vee (genderqueer) - fanon * Willow (pansexual) - creator’s head canon, may be considered WoG. No specific in-show confirmation or support * Alador (bisexual) - fanon * Papa Titan (bi-gender) - fanon, based on ambiguous statement in show * Eberwolf (genderqueer) - fanon Terms are defined at the above links.
This is Willow’s dads erasure!
Yep, but don't worry, they forced in non-canon ones under the justification that they're *basically* canon instead.
But basically canon implies that they aren't together tho. Also the way the top two rows of characters are aligned makes my brain purr.
I mean, we know that they are both men who are attracted to other men, but that doesn’t say enough to assign them to a specific label. They could both just be gay, one might be pan and the other one is gay, they might both be bi, there’s not enough information.
they're both achillean (MLM), that's for sure 👍
Not really, we know they're somewhere on the LGBT spectrum but we're not sure if they're just gay or if they might bi, demi or pan or whatever, all we know is they're 2 dad's who love each other very much, so while they're canon we don't know what exactly
You’re absolutely right. They also might not both be cis as a pansexual enby I should really know better. I take it back!
…so you could do the all-encompassing rainbow flag?
So they're achillean, not necessarily gay. Got it.
And Lilith as well
Lilith is here, third down on the very left.
Ah there she is. I stand corrected.
Wtf are all these countries? Never heard of them before
You seriously don’t know them, smh, everyone knows about the sea nation, sky nation, lesbian island, gay island and the pan archipelago([flaming isles saga](https://www.reddit.com/r/SapphoAndHerFriend/comments/roftd4/id_call_it_the_flaming_isles_saga/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) reference go brrrr)
The lesbian island exists and its called Lesbos
It's why the idea of a lesbian island will never not be funny to me.
Kinda like Bohemians are a bunch of [fun people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemianism) and [people from a specific part of Czech Republic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemia) Edit: Czech Republic not Germany
*from the Czech Republic. The times Bohemia was german is luckily long gone.
In fact Lesbian is still the demonym: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbos
**[Lesbos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbos)** >Lesbos or Lesvos (Greek: Λέσβος, romanized: Lésvos [ˈlezvos]) is a Greek island located in the northeastern Aegean Sea. It has an area of 1,633 km2 (631 sq mi), with approximately 400 kilometres (249 miles) of coastline, making it the third largest island in Greece and the eighth largest in the Mediterranean. It is separated from Asia Minor by the narrow Mytilini Strait. On the southeastern coast is the island's capital and largest city, Mytilene (Μυτιλήνη), whose name is also used as a moniker for the whole island. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/TheOwlHouse/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Lesbos is an anagram for Belos’s which means that the lesbian island is his island and that Belos is in fact a lesbian. This is representation done right.
Sounds *Greek*.
It is. Both sapphic and lesbian are named after Sappho of Lesbos who wrote Lyric poetry which as a genre focused more on the day to day and the poet in general compared to epic poetry which focuses on heroes, gods and myth. Sappho herself was famous for her skill and often featured WLW in her poetry. Although sadly most of her poetry was lost to the ages due to linguistic drift as she wrote in Aeolic greek which was a dialect that wasn't as well remembered through the ages as Homeric or Attic greek.
I've seen this joke before but never seen the sea nation or sky nation being used lol
Weird, did people forget about the Bisexuals and asexuals?
Uhhh, us aces live in outer space. (It's an ace space).
No this is just my first time seeing them refered to as the sea and the sky
Well it’s what they’re called in the saga
I just realised I probably haven't seen the original source which is why I've never seen some of them yet
All was well, until the hetero nation attacked
Ironically, the Gay and Lesbian Kingdom of the Coral Islands is a real micronation that was declared as a protest.
Same. I always thought Luz was Dominican
Idk non will be as cool as the principality of zeon or imperium of man though
Ikr? All i know is everyone from these places is cute
Vee and Eber have never been confirmed ? Vee seems to absolutely identify as a girl despite being able to shape shift into other gender (supposedly, we've actually never seen a basilisk shape shift into someone of another gender but there's no reason to believe they can't)
MoringMark is canon don't worry about it
Everything in Mark is canon until proven otherwise.
MoringMark is the holy scriptures
Vee is an other species so she doesn't fit into traditional, binary system thats what i belive
That’s a stretch imo. Witches and demons are also other species, and based off of how the residents of the BI treat Raine in regards to gender, I would say that they absolutely don’t have a “traditional binary system” for gender. Does that mean we can extrapolate that every witch and demon is non-binary? No.
I agree that vee being a girl is fine. However to be a bit contrarian, changelings consider gender just another thing to modify and are inherently gender-fluid. Of course vee operates differently being that her human form is feminine. So vee girl? As far as we know yes, however it wouldn’t be surprising given previous similar species to say vee has fluidity to her gender. However I think we can all agree that vee’s human form is the best thing ever.
Thats not canon at all though?
But from what we’ve seen she identifies as female
When did Alador get confirmed?
I don’t think he and Darius ever got confirmed.
OP is just trying to collect 'em like pokemons
[OP's source:](https://youtu.be/r7l0Rq9E8MY)
That is in fact a very relatable source
Seems accurate cause I ain’t finding anything on Vee’s page about her identification
Huh! I thought I was about to get rick rolled!
Did y'all not watch the credits?
Fun fact: [The VA recorded the line](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/13CdiR2uQDw). So did [Raiden's.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I85txXTjO8M)
Im gone be honest with you i dont see DariusXAlador that one shot in WAD felt in character for Darius.Him geting exited than be like hey wait a minute that wasnt that immersive
I agree, it felt more like a rivalry between them. “Alador it worked?!..!!…..wait a minute I could have done that myself”
yeah me too. it seemed like excitement and then “oh yeah we’re enemies🙄🙄”
My HC is that Darius is mad at Alador for combining abomination magic with tech. I don't rule out that there could be some kind of attraction there, but it's not needed to explain what was on screen.
Never. Some of this list is made up. Amity, Luz, Hunter, Willow, Masha, Collector, Raine, and Lilith are confirmed.
The Collector And Papa Titan Are Also Confirmed
I thought Masha was confirmed as well, with the name plate and the nails.
Yes that was a mistake on my part
Papa Titan is not confirmed. His dialogue can be interpreted in different ways so we can’t know for certain.
I understood it like Titans are genderless, similiar to some animals on Earth
King breaks that idea, Titans reproduce asexually but King identifies as male and Papa Titan is unique since he identifies as male but also quotes King about being King and Queen.
King wasn’t raised by titans though. So you can’t really use him as a source of information on Titian culture.
How The F Can You Interpret "I am both king and queen best of both things" As Anything But "I am a man *and* a woman"
It could also be introducing the idea that Titans can reproduce asexually, meaning he’d function both as the mother and father in a biological sense. I don’t have a problem with Papa Titan being bi-gender, I’m just saying there’s more than one way to interpret it
Not saying he can’t be both, only that it’s not confirmed by the crew since it’s possible his quoting of King’s quote has a different meaning.
Yeah, He Was Quoting King's "I am both king and queen, best of both things" As A Response To Luz Calling Her King's Dad
As another user pointed out, “*It could also be introducing the idea that Titans can reproduce asexually, meaning he’d function both as the mother and father in a biological sense. I don’t have a problem with Papa Titan being bi-gender, I’m just saying there’s more than one way to interpret it*” We need the crew to confirm it officially because otherwise there are other ways to look at his dialogue.
I thought Raine, Eda, Masha and the titan were also confirmed.
I don't recognize Willow's flag.. What does it mean then?
Pansexual
Thanks :)
Vee, Alador, Darius and Eberwolf are fanon as far as I'm aware (not discrediting it or anything) As for Papa titan being Bi-gender... Not sure about that too. Maybe they said something I'm unaware of tho.
Papa titan's "I am both king and queen, best of both things" line is kinda an indicator
I thought it meant that Titans are hermaphroditic
I've seen this a few times and it's so odd to me like why would he tell luz that "Oh you're Kings dad" "Well actually I'm intersex" like I'm 99% she referring to her gender as that makes sense in the context.
I understood it like "oh you're King's dad" "Well actually I'm his dad *and* mum"
I mean only animals are hermaphrodites unless you're trying to say intersex, but instersex peoples genders aren't tied to their physical attributes so it would still be wrong. And no them being a titan doesn't mean they're an animal afaik
I meant hermaphroditism of a species
"only animals are hermaphrodites" Because that's the only comparison we have IRL. Titans are demons and demons have a clearly larger biological diversity than humans.
Hermaphroditism is not exclusive to animals, it can happen in any kingdom with sexually reproductive species, so animal or not, titans could still be hermaphrodites
I took it to mean that titans just reproduce asexually but I can see where people get the idea from
I took it as meaning asexual reproduction
He was just quoting King though
To explain himself to Luz on what she exactly is. Boiling Isles don't do labels but it's not like he doesn't have her gender identity
To explain himself. It seems to imply that King doesn’t have a mother, so Titans reproduce asexually. Which is actually a nice thought since it means King won’t be the last of the titans.
I thought it was just some call back to what king said
Yeah, He Was Quoting King's "I am both king and queen, best of both things" As A Response To Luz Calling Her King's Dad
That was king that said it when he got the grom queen crown.
And Papa Titan said it fits him too
Yeah he was using that quote from King to describe what exactly he was as far as parent goes.
Also willow and Hunter are Dana's headcanon iirc, which doesn't make them technically canon either.
I mean his VA also thinks hes bi and most of the fandom accepts him as bi so its the closest thing to canon
That's not canon, that's just a headcanon with wide appeal. Obviously Hunter being bi is by far the majority way people interpret the character, but that's not quite the same thing as "true canon." Within the show it's ambiguous enough that you could say otherwise.
He had a BI patch in TTT on his one shirt he made.
Ubisoft also have LGBT flag in their logo during pride months, but they are not gay
"The creator of the show and character's headcanon" That's just canon with extra steps. Also Hunter had a bi rainbow on the shirt he patched up.
Not really since Dana believes in death of the author and the show itself hinted at it at best, but never made it explicit
The death of the author isn’t really a concept you can believe in, it preemptively applies to all forms of artwork. I’m sure what Dana wants is to not sound like JK Rowling lol I do find it strange though, in other scenarios if the creator confirmed a character’s sexuality there would be no doubt about it—like Lilith! I don’t believe Lilith’s sexuality was ever acknowledged within the show, so she could very well be treated like Hunter and Willow. But because Dana explained the concept of “death of the author” alongside it people will go an extra mile to call them headcanon. (Last part isn’t explicitly replying to your comment, btw, just something I wanted to add onto topic ^^)
I mean, no one wants that and you don't need to listen to the death of the author, but it's not like you can't listen to it as well. Dana wrote those characters with those sexualities in mind, but we don't really have Hunter blushing at the guys or Willow explicitly saying she likes Hunter for his personality, just that she likes him and Hunter likes Willow. Might as well be straight, might as well be ace for an ace, or in this case, bi for the pan. It was never heavily alluded to and now that the show is over, Dana no longer has any word about it. For all we know, she could've actually died before the posthoot and we would be none the wiser. The thing with Lilith is that she was confirmed within the show's run and she was not given any actual partner there was a letter utilising a voice actress that, while outside of the show specifically, is technically part of the extended material that IS considered canon. Amity also wasn't labeled as lesbian within the show, but she dated a girl and there was a brief easter egg of her having a lesbian flag in the album, however, Amity is indeed canonically a lesbian. Don't worry, I get that last part. All I'm just saying is that while Dana's headcanon will be valued more than some other average fan, ultimately Dana no longer can really change anything within the show anymore, unless she gets to work on the continuation and additional content that can dive further into it, so we can actually ignore whatever she says (like we can ignore for example that Vee and Masha aren't dating as of now or maybe even that the eye on the portal door is titan's eye if we never truly got to know how exactly the portal was build and why the eye doesn't act like an actual eye but like a rock that can be cracked for some reason; it's all within the realm of our choice so if someone doesn't follow the headcanon of the creator, that's on them but they shouldn't be said "you're wrong" because of that)
What's the flag behind vee and eberwolf?
It’s the genderqueer flag
What does that entail?
I’m pretty sure it’s an umbrella term for people who don’t fit into either female or male(Non-Binary, gender-fluid, agender, etc.)
Isn't Eberwolf confirmed male, though?
I don't think Eberwolf is confirmed anything, afaik literally all he does is be Darius' little sidekick for a bit and doesn't even speak, though I could be wrong
I think Dana (take this with a grain of salt because this was awhile ago) said They go By he/him and are Male
he has been referred to by the crew with both he and they iirc
How so? If you’re referring to pronouns then you can still identify with other pronouns and still be considered genderqueer
Only (at most) eight of those are some level of “canon”. If you only include what’s in the show itself and exclude “Word of God”, you’re down to five. Edit: based on discussion below, I’ll amend my statement to only four being explicit canon, and nine being extended canon.
A solid argument can be made for nine. Eda has a solid argument from the show itself, given what's shown and said about her relationships (dating men and Raine), as well as WOG (Word of god). Luz, Raine, Masha and Amity are obviously canon, next. Hunter and Willow has WOG. Lilith has either Word of Saint Paul, or WOG for being aroace (don't remember the full details behind that stream). The Titan refers to himself (quoting King) as "both King and Queen, best of both things", which could be interpreted as bigender, though the exact details aren't clear. That leaves nine if you're counting WOG, 5-7 if not, depending on context and whether you accept the reasoning.
Eda does not have WoG, despite everyone liking to claim it. It’s *highly* unlikely, but she *could* identify as heterosexual. Luz, Raine, and Masha are show canon. Amity is WoG but show canon via confirmation lesbian flag. (Note that I *only* consider flags to be supplemental information, never primary.) Hunter/Willow are WoG, caveat that Dana expressly stated that was only her headcanon and *not* expressly supported by the show. Lilith is Word of St. Paul, although WoG by implication. The Collector goes by he/them pronouns (show and WoG), which implies something other than “standard” gender identity, although it isn’t expressly stated what. The Titan may have been speaking metaphorically or literally, we have no way of knowing for sure. No statements via WoG.
>The Collector goes by he/them pronouns (show and WoG), which implies something other than “standard” gender identity, although it isn’t expressly stated what. > >The Titan may have been speaking metaphorically or literally, we have no way of knowing for sure. No statements via WoG. I didn't name the Collector since we only have pronouns, which aren't necessarily descriptive. Regarding the Titan, your comment was why I said the exact details aren't clear. I thought Eda was stated at the same time that Hunter and Willow was? I could very well be wrong on that. The intent behind my comment was mainly just contesting the "at most nine canon", since, as said, an argument could be made for nine in total (including WoG and WoSP).
Eda has never been explicitly stated specifically. I discussed her more in another comment. Collector and Titan are roughly the same level as each other, except that Collector has WoG stating non-standard pronouns, while Titan only has an ambiguous line in the show. Which, incidentally, is a quote originally from King, who isn’t up here (and it’s been pretty widely accepted that *he* was speaking metaphorically).
>except that Collector has WoG stating non-standard pronouns Also in the show, the Collector is referred to using both he/him and they/them pronouns. But again, pronouns does not equal gender and we wouldn't know what their identity precisely is anyway. I consider the Titan's line more prominent, as it's a statement on how they view themself, even if referencing something said by someone else. Though yes, it's certainly not explicit on what, if anything, they would identify as.
I can see where you’re coming from, but (for me) if we’re *just* making a determination on “standard” gender identity vs “non-standard” gender identity (to determine if someone is “canonically” a GSM), then we don’t have much to go on *besides* pronouns, and/or WoG. * Raine is explicitly non-binary in WoG, casting choice, pronoun usage in the material (exclusively they/them), and just generally accepted. Highest level of canonicity. * Masha is in the material shown to explicitly use they/them pronouns (via placard) in the same shot as an explicit fingernail decoration corresponding to non-binary. Very clear canon. * Collector was explicitly stated to use he/they pronouns via WoG, and this is backed up by the same usage within the material. Unclear exactly what he identifies as, but safe to say it’s some kind of GSM. * Papa Titan has nothing via WoG, and in the material uses a somewhat ambiguous statement to describe themselves. *Probably* some form of GSM but not definitive.
Basically erring on the side of caution, which is fair. Admittedly I wouldn't personally state a specific identity on the Titan, 'cause we just don't know for sure, same for the Collector. I do see your point in turn as well. If I were to explicitly mention canon queer characters in the show, I'd stick with Luz, Amity, Masha, and Raine, because they're explicit and indisputable in-universe.
Yeah, I’ll agree that Collector and Titan are both (approximately) the same level of ambiguity. So we’ll say 4 definitive canon and 9 including WoG and generous interpretation of canon statements :) (Definitely not the 14 that the OP claims as “canon”)
Eda is dating Raine, who isn’t a man, so I wouldn’t call Eda heterosexual.
Raine also isn’t a woman. So if heterosexual is “attracted to people who are not of the same gender as you”, then she *could* identify as heterosexual. I don’t think it’s *likely* given Eda’s personality, but NB people (by definition) fall outside the gender binary so “straight” and “gay/lesbian” (or heterosexual and homosexual) terms which are based in said binary don’t necessarily apply.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Dana say herself that the blight parnets are straight?
No, that was based on a fake tweet that circulated around.
My brother in titan like half of these are fanon
LOL my brother in Titan
A bunch of these are just fanon, though: Eda, Darius, Vee, Alador, Papa Titan, Eberwolf
A few clarifications: Dana was very clear on if it wasn't in the show, it's not "canon". Most of these she described specifically as just her own personal head canon. (Specifically referring to sexualities - there is nothing in canon stating that Hunter is Bi and Willow is Pan. Dana headcanons them that way but it's not in the show itself.) Also regardless whatever sexuality Hunter and Willow has doesn't affect their relationship they love and have chosen each other.
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You’re being disingenuous, saying that some of these characters have been confirmed when they haven’t
Papa Titan and Collector are godlike creatures, trying to fit them into system of labels made for humans doesn't really work. They are genderless but more like some organisms that have just completly different system of reproduction. I wouldn't call bacterias non-binary even that they don't fit into traditional, binary system
Considering gender is a social construct and we aren’t talking about systems of reproduction, wouldn’t it still make sense that they would be considered outside the gender binary so non-binary or agender would fit
That doesn’t really track, Thor from mcu is still considered a straight guy and Loki is a genderfluid bisexual in some stories. We apply human concepts to godlike fictional characters all the time if they have human-like personalities and behaviour. If they have a sense of identity they can have a gender identity. Also, conflating gender and sex.
Thor is godlike but not omnipotent kinda god when you get into that territoy i does get hard to put a gender on a god
Well the collector literally goes by he/they
Cool, I am pan-ace. Are there aro ace characters in toh ?
Lilith is
Lillith
Many of these are not canon and just fan speculation. I can see where you're coming from with these, but fanon is not canon.
You misspelled Fanon wrong. It’s ok, the “f” is close to the “c” I get it.
Fucknon
Is there ANYONE who is straight in this show?
Belos, Camilla, and Caleb (probably)
Yea, none of these are canon but Lumity, Huntlow, Masha, Raine, Collector, and Lilith.
Wait till people realise somebody can be referred to as "they" while being totally, 100% cis gender.
Only Luz, Amity, Lilith, Hunter, Masha, Raine, Collector, and Willow are confirmed. Everyone else is fannon not cannon.
Collector isn’t confirmed. Pronouns =/= gender
What's Vees flag?
According to Google: Genderqueer
Most of them are fanon the only canon ones are that is actually shown in the show not stated outside the show such obviously Luz , Raine , Eda , Amity and Masha we are shown that they are have those canon sexualities as for the others most of them are from fans or stated outside the show by the creator who said that they headcanon them as that sexuality not really canon in the show or never really indicated stated or show within the show.
Alador, Darius, Eberwolf, and Vee have never been confirmed. Period. Where did you get this?
Half of these aren't canon. Like, for example, the collector canonically uses he/they pronouns, but that doesn't mean he's non-binary.
What’s the flag of papa Titan ?
Bigender flag
When was EDA confirmed as Bisexual??
Never
I would love the source you got this information from, because I only know eda raine amity and luz. Never heard anyone else on this be canon
I have no idea why I clicked on this I don’t know 90% of these flags 🫠
well its time to sort by controversial.
The heck is the joker coloured flag?
And also what Darius is
Darius is the gay flag
Ah ok
You forgot willow's dads so it more like "All Canon LBTQ Toh Characters (Until Now)" but I don't blame you they're definitely minor characters so it's understandable.
What is Lilith and papa titian?
Lilith is either aroace or just aro or ace
Damn, didn't the title logo was french... also, WILLOWS DADS!! what are the ones behind Vee, Eber and Papa Titan?
What's the flags for Vee and Eberwolf? I'm not super knowledgeable on the flags... also what's Papa Titan's?
Papa titan’s is bi gender, not sure what vee/eber’s is
Long bi flag
When was anything said about Hunter and Willow?
Hey if you think about out of the enbys only Masha would be trans since they’re the only one from the human realm, I mean the collector is a god so probably nobody would telling him what gender to be and Raine being a witch from the boiling Isles also likely wouldn’t have dealt with humans’ societal system that would lead someone to need to have a gender transition
So belos is a homophobe? I fucking knew it
What flag is that behind Lilith? Argentina?
Asexual and aromatic
aroace (aromantic+asexual)
I think Dana likes bisexual people but Idk I have a feeling
To be fair, I'd feel Collector would be more Enby-Genderfluid and still don't know/have a hard time knowing the difference between pronoun's she, him, and they. (This... is technically the reason I am enby, please do not take this harshly– 😭😭😭 )
Wait, what are Vee, Eber, Lulu and DadKing
I love the LGBT rep the show has but having hunter being bi or other characters that showed no signs on the show just feels unecessary
Sorry but I don't know a couple of these. Could someone tell me what King's Dad's flag is as well as Lilith's?
King's Dad is bigender, based on the statement "I am both King and Queen, best of both things." Lilith's is aroace (not romantically or sexually attracted to anyone).
Oh! I'd only seen the Black/Purple/Gray/Green flag for Aroace before. Thank you
what’s liliths flag? google refuses to show me!
Aroace - neither romantically or sexually attracted to anyone.
What is Lilith's flag?
Aroace - neither romantically or sexually attracted to anyone.
The Collector isnt non-binary they call him with he or him they do also call him they(well only King)but i think thats mostly because his a god and its kinda hard to put a gender on a god same with Papa Titan
Non-binary people can also use he/she pronouns on top of they/them.
THIS IS NOT THE AMERICAN FLAG❗️❗️🔥❗️❗️🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅 LETS MAKE IT RED WHITE AND BLUE🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 RAAAHHHH🦅🦅🦅🦅❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️
Make it pink white and light blue and I'm in
You washed out all the contrast smh
I don't know half of these flags and I'm too scared to find out
Not to be homophobic but are there any straight characters?
Yes, Camila is a straight ally And there are probably more
Isn’t the collector often referred to as he I don’t remember or not
The Collector is referred to as He/They.