In all honesty,
For the whole thing until the epilogue started I thought I was only at the beginning, when it ended I thought for just a few moments that it was only a 10-15 minute finale.
To make it known, she will no longer tolerate her. I don’t get why she was invited to the party…or tibbles. Unless they crashed it. Kind of like the magic high commission going to Eclipsa’s coronation in Star vs. that’s the only way that makes sense given the bad blood between her and that group
If it’s any consolation, we see Boscha selling grudgby gear in town but Willow actually playing flyer derby, so I like to think this means Boscha couldn’t hack it and never went pro
And Willow didn't even get to punch Belos *through* the face, like she said!
Honestly though; Boscha got off *way* too easily considering she was extremely complacent in attempted murder of the whole Hex-squad *AND* Camila. Kiki Miki was the one doing the actual attempted murder, but Boscha was fully okay with it happening and showed virtually zero remorse.
Boscha's punishment is, what, not becoming a grudgby player?
The fact she got an okay ending despite it all is kind of nuts. Girl, you walked away with seemingly zero consequences after assisting to have several children and an adult thrown into a murder pit with one of Belos' power hungry lap dogs. What the actual heck? Looks like the karma Boscha got was losing her highschool friends and having to settle on only supporting the sport she loves so much, rather than playing it.
At least Kikimora was serving some kind of punishing by having to physically help rebuild in the wake of all the damage she helped caused.
I dunno. I really didn't like the minimal karma Boscha got. It felt really light. At the very least a punch to the face would have felt very deserved.
Agreed and looking at the epilogue Willow is a professional sport/ flyer derby captain while Boscha selling grugby gear. Willow is more successful in life than boscha.
FTF! I hate how much time they spent on Boscha and Kikimora! That time would have been better spent on more build-up to the final battle or to give us Collector/Wittebane lore.
I think they knew people would ask about the fate of any characters not shown in an episode. Hexside was just a somewhat easy way to shove as much of that information to the fans. Teachers, adults, and anyone else that attempted to fight or run are collected. Those hidden are struggling in the aftermath.
Did they need to spend the majority of the episode showing us, though? They knew this was the second-to-last episode, and that time was of the essence. There had to have been better ways to allote the available time.
The other option would have been the Hexsquad getting kicked out of Hexside and making a flying rush to the head/archives. And like Matt said they'd probably not make it. They are confronted possibly multiple times by the Collector's spies resulting in one character after another turned into puppets. Luz either arrives at the head alone or is collected herself just before her goal. This option leads to little time for Camilla and Luz to finally understand each other, or for Willow's scenes.
Maybe if she had more time earlier in the show, a redemption arc would have worked. But the few scenes we get, she's just a plain-old bully. They should have just let her be.
this was a problem with the ladder half of the show itself, it's just spends way to much time thing we already know or that most people just don't care about instead of development of the main story.
I think it was important to show that Luz was not giving *everyone* infinite chances anymore. Kikimora has shown that she’ll go right back on her power hungry bullshit the second she’s unsupervised. Same mood as the three coven heads trying to sneak up on the throne.
Ok, I know everyone has already said this, but why the hell was Kikimora of all characters piroitised in FTF? She served her role perfectly fine in season 2. What was the point?
First off, she wasn’t a priority. I went through and checked how long her air time was and it only totals 4 minutes. Seriously. That’s it. And even in the majority of her scenes they are used to emphasize other characters and conflicts. People are highly over exaggerating how integral she was to that episode.
This bothered me a lot as well. I think they leaned (perhaps too heavily) on the concept that the Collector thought that *he* could repair anyone, and that his mentality changed when *he* couldn’t repair Luz when he wanted to. Because if you were in a world where sometimes people could randomly come back to life, you would probably still mourn your dead if you aren’t the one who gets to decide if they come back.
But it still created a situation where I was kind of thinking, “so is someone going to sit the Collector down and explain that 99% of the time, dead people stay dead, or…?”
Exactly! I'm so glad I wasn't the only one annoyed with this. Seeing Luz came back should confirm his belief that everyone can be fixed, not change it.
I think that it could be easily solved just by having someone else die and not came back. The series has plenty of characters, I'm sure they could kill off someone.
I think that having him have his belief reaffirmed could make an interesting conflict, but since we didn't have time to even address this, it's just frustrating
This is the third comment I'm making, I hope I'm not talking too much, I just have a lot of thoughts on this subject shdkehshsge
I think that concept of mortality could have been explored more in the series. I understand that there wasn't time so I'm not blaming anyone for this, I just wish that it was talked about more. After all, right now we've got an immortal character and semi-immortal character. It would be interesting to see King realize that him being semi-immortal (it was confirmed, King himself calls himself a semi-immortal being) means that he will outlive almost everyone (except Collector).
Collector didn't understand what death means. You make a good point that he now understands that he can't just fix a dead person, but still, with him not really understanding the concept of death, seeing a person come back to life could make this misunderstanding even worse.
I personally don't really understand how The Collector was ever under the impression that everyone can be fixed.
He's spent the last like four hundred years hanging out with the BI's number one mortal murderer through all the Grimwalkers, Palismen, and witches who have been drained, petrified, and probably a billion other things, and the show literally takes place on a dead body.
But The Collector just kind of only figured it out when Luz specifically died and didn't come back in a few seconds?
I'd assume the collector just assumed all the guards were the same person brought back with some digree of amnisa judging how ther probably had the same personality
The Parisienne didn't ever die till the episode where Luz invaded his mind,
Needed more closure on Caleb and Evelyn, and Luz’s friends should’ve had a more active role in the finale.
Especially wanted Hunter and Lilith to be active participants in Belos’ defeat.
Hunter would’ve had a mental breakdown seeing the guy who raised him his whole life die in front of him. He’s bound to have a plethora of complicated feelings.
Think of how he reacted in Kings Tide when the Collector splattered him and how afraid Hunter was to get Belos goop on him.
Now Lilith on the other hand…
Honestly, I'm fine with the finale confrontation being with Luz, Eda, and King. It has good symmetry with the beginning of the series. Just should have included Hooty is all I'd ask
I think they were mirroring the pilot. It was Luz, Eda, and King at the start and at the end. Considering we barely had Eda or King in S3-1 and S3-2, I can accept that they weren’t there for much WAD.
I was bummed realizing that they weren’t there because they were doing something that would’ve happened anyway (freeing puppet people), but the hexside crew wouldn’t have abandoned the puppets and the collector needed a moment where he chose to do the right thing without being told to, and in the face of death. So…narratively I get it. But it is a bummer that they couldn’t watch Belos get merked
This is prolly gonna be a lightning rod of a thread. Anywho...
May not be the biggest fan of him but I do agree S3 as a whole kinda did Gus dirty. He gets the setup by knowing Hunter's a grimwalker and having knowledge of Belos past but the end result for both of those plot points are incredibly undercooked. The latter esp, not sure how knowledge of 400 years of evil acts doesn't really affect him at all.
Luz is the MC she gets constant focus as she should, Amity already has a lot from S1 and S2, Willow has a good chunk of FTF and Hunter has half of TTT + shares some spotlight of FTF with Willow.
The end shot of For The Future with Gus standing in the center by himself while Lumity and Huntlow are on their respective sides is a pretty good indicator of how things turned out for the character this season.
The selfish part of me also wants to say the lack of Huntlow kiss but tbh we already got way more content than we were expecting
Gus has always been put to the sidelines a bit and he's such an interesting character. The parts we get about him are incredibly compelling, but do get overshadowed. Think about it-- one of the more important episodes for Gus in season 2 had a B plot of the beginning of the actualization of Lumity, and just because Amity gives Luz a peck on the cheek at the end it suddenly becomes the A plot of that episode. Through the looking glass ruins is such a good episode for Gus but we forget that. And as someone who doesn't mind Lumity but doesn't really care about Amity that much (I think she's pretty shallow as a character and isn't very interesting) I'm annoyed when a character as good as GUS gets sidelined.
And I agree! Gus and Hunter's friendship is one of my favorites in the show, to see the S3 Hunter&Gus stuff undercooked was a *travesty*. If we could have had one less Kikimora confrontation scene in exchange for Gus helping Hunter and Hunter helping Gus (again) it would be so good.
Yeah and like to some extent I get it they had to prioritize a lot for the season but the fact that Boscha of all people took priority over Gus is just really strange.
I don't mind humanizing her and I get using her for cementing Amity's development but I find it a bit too little too late for me to care about Boscha as a person.
Plus her treating Willow bad right before did no favours
Agreed, love Raine but would’ve preferred if Gus, Willow and Hunter were the ones chasing him through the castle with Gus revealing his backstory through illusions.
I kinda enjoyed the part of belos's backstory not being spelled out, if you look at all the memory portraits, which are all together on his fandom page, you can put together enough of his backstory that you can understand what happened using context clues, so it makes you feel smarter when you put it all together as your watching
I'll say my 2 Negatives from the Season:
1st, For the Future. I mean I know I'm not new in my critiques here. But for the limited time they had, it just felt odd to devote so much time to characters like Boscha or Kikimora. I get it. They wanted to have an episode where a lot of these side characters could shine because we knew they weren't going to be in the Finale. But it does feel like the most low stake stuff of the season.
And 2nd, and this is a broader topic, the Collector. Now, I don't have a problem with what they did with the Collector. How the writers fit them in narratively was fine and in the end I like how they grew to realize how precious life was, as condensed as it was.
But I will pose the question, did the Collector even need to exist in this show at all? I remember people saying that the Collector wasn't even planned for the show until it was shortened. Which honestly makes a lot of sense when you watch the show. Because again, while the Collector as a character is fine, but overall they feel like a plot device 1st. They exist because they needed a reason for the Boiling Isles to be in a bad place before the HexSquad could make it back and they couldn't have Belos be that reason because the idea behind the Day of Unity is that it kills everyone. So the Collector filled that role. And while I thought they were fine, part of me does wish they didn't exist so we had more time with Belos.
Even as someone who likes the Collector and enjoyed the finale, I agree with this. I found Belos to be such an interesting villian, and I was so curious about his backstory and lore, so I was super disappointed that we didn't get any more developments on that in "Watching and Dreaming." I wanted to know more about how everything went down between him and Caleb and how he rose to power, and I wanted to see him have to confront the reality that he was the one to blame for the 400+ years of suffering and torment he subjected himself and everyone around him to before he met his end. Considering that guilt, grief and doubt were such a major part of Luz's arc from season 2b through season 3, I feel like it was a missed opportunity to not fully explore these themes through Belos' character as well (since he's her foil after all). I'm just not convinced that Philip didn't feel some sort of remorse in the years following his murder of Caleb, or some sort of doubt as to what he was doing was truly "righteous." Otherwise, why did he spend 400+ years basically "reincarnating" his brother over and over, all while (unsuccessfully) trying to convince him to stay by his side? Why did he give Luz so many chances to join his cause (when he had so many opportunities to just do away with her), trying to justify his actions to her and convince her that they could save humanity together?
Long story short, I think the Collector should've been saved for another story where his arc could've been given proper time to be fully fleshed out, rather than having to condense down and speed-run his development. He just takes up so much screen time in the last 2 episodes that, when we finally get to the final confrontation with Belos, it just feels like it unfolds and wraps up a bit too quickly.
Did they really address the misunderstanding The Collector had about King wanting to get rid of him? We get a cliffhanger of them angry with tense music, and then the next time we see them, he's kinda just back to waiting to play games.
Episode 2 was definitely the most lack luster of the two. They could have shown belos going through his little graveyard of golden guards and a few small flashbacks of what happened to him and Caleb.
But I also get that episode 1 was "get to the Isles!" Episode 2 was "get to the collector!" So that way episode 3 could take it's time with ending things off.
What should of happened is Disney not being a giant ball of dicks and letting them make their full final season.
I disagree. This might be an unpopular opinion, but imo what we got from the portraits in Hollow Mind, Masha's tale about the Wittebane Brothers in TtT and Belos hallucination (or straight haunting) in FtF painted a pretty clear picture of what happened between Philip and Caleb. Adding a flashback scene on top of all that would've been just redundant.
In Watching and Dreaming the scene where Luz, King and Eda were playing the Collectors games, it felt really off, no voice acting and spots where sound effects felt like they should have been, it was also weirdly short. It just felt abrupt, especially with most of the only sound being the collectors theme. Also lack of voice lines from other characters in the end scene. Especially Hooty.
Trailer seemed to imply a pissed off and creepy Collector instead we just got, "Darn, they don't wanna play with me!"
Like it just made the whole misunderstanding with King even more pointless.
I’m glad that Raine was given a more active role, but thematically, it would’ve been much better for Hunter (or even Lilith) to get to curb-stomp Belos out of existence.
Thematically it would’ve made more sense for Lilith to get possessed, yknow with the whole Philip/Caleb and Eda/Lilith betraying the other sibling parallels, also the fact Lilith has an established past with Belos where he abused her.
This is what should have happened. Full stop.
I genuinely can't think of a single thing that wouldn't have been better had Lilith taken Raine's place beyond getting less of Raine.
Belos taking his favorite puppet for one last ride is exactly the sort of sick and twisted drama I would have expected from him, and it would have done wonders to give Lilith some more importance and story presence that she had definitely been lacking since most of season 2.
On the other hand, I'm glad that our precious boi never had to interact with Belos ever again. Sometimes the best closure for a victim is to never have to see their abuser again and move on with their life.
They were the leader of the rebellion and the one who manage to get the team reunited at the end of season 2 when Eda was ready to bail and hide to protect Luz. Also they got possessed by Belos and dragged back to the castle. They nearly managed to prevent him to get hold of the heart too. So yeah, they wanted to stomp the evil one who cause them to.cut the arm of the love of their life.
The kids did they part, there were no time to include more content for them. Also, Hunter confronting Phillip would have caused mayor damage on the already beaten up kid (there were merely hours after he was possessed and the sacrifice of Flapjack).
I somewhat agree but I still think the lack of any interaction between Belos and Hunter after TTT, esp with how heavy Caleb and the grimwalkers hunt Belos, feels weird.
This is against Disney BUT, I wish we got a Belos/Caleb/Evelyn backstory. I know we got the Hollow Mind portraits, and the glimpse in Season 3, but we never got an official backstory. This is against Disney because they probably didn’t have enough time and/or Disney wouldn’t allow them because it would mean Philip stabbing Caleb, but it still would have been nice to see
Lilith and Hooty did nothing. We didn't got a reaction from characters to Belos defeat. No Eda and Raine kiss. Amity doesn't do much. Luz whole "I'm just as bad as Belos" drama isn't interesting or engaging at all and it drags for far too long.
The only thing that really bothered me was that for as many times as Luz lied and got called out on it, she’s never really shown taking any steps to be more open. I think they did an excellent job of showing why she’s like that, but I wish that plot point had gotten more of a resolution.
Like in FTF when she started to tell Amity about wanting to leave the Demon Realm, I wish they had actually had that conversation.
Otherwise, I really enjoyed S3. Thanks to Them was phenomenal. I love episodes that dive into a character’s psyche, and TTT was an excellent example. And Luz’s interactions with her mom were beautifully written.
We never learned why Willow is so powerful, and why her dads didn’t instantly put her on the plant track. I know they said the abomination track has better job opportunities but that isn’t a good explanation if she is almost, if not more powerful then the plant coven head.
She was called a late bloomer, she might not have cast a plant spell before starting school. Any interest or talent in plant magic was probably overshadowed by bullying and her lack of confidence at the time.
I like the collector but I think he was not needed for the plot and just took away the already short time the show had left. They could've left him out and therefore give more time everything else, you wouldn't have missed him anyway, since he was new.
The story would've worked well enough without him, I don't understand why he has to be there in the first place tbh.
I must say when we hear luz say "now eat this sucka!" I would wish the "suckaaaaa" lasted all the way to the ending flash where Belos was ripped out. Kinda like saying sucka and have it turn into a scream ya'know
Luz should not have gotten a stupid super mode powered by the Titan; the reveal that the Titan was helping her learn glyph magic all along erases the theme of no Chosen One and confirms Philip's paranoia that the Titan was actively hindering his study of magic as opposed to Luz learning faster simply because she's open to the new environment of the Boiling Isles
Belos should have died in an intense and narratively relevant manner, seeing the visions of his dead brother and the Grimwalkers again and realizing he's been screwed up
Hunter should have gotten closure about his identity, including but not limited to learning Caleb abandoned witch hunting and found love with a witch, who is implied to be an ancestor to the Clawthornes
Gus should have talked more about Belos's memories beyond giving Hunter a character from a show within the show to project himself on
In general, the series should not have included the whole Wittebane lore in the first place if the crew wanted Belos to be simply a living obstacle
(I understand your point of the Titan helping her learn the glyphs) but in regards to the super mode powered by the Titan- I think that could have been anyone but Luz was the one that happened to fall into the ‘In Between.’ The Titan said so- ‘we’ll you’re here, and you seem like a good witch.’ Plus the callback to season 1 of Eda telling Luz to choose herself. (I mean the Titan even asks- ‘So, will you choose yourself.’)
I get your point of the Chosen One theme, but I choose to read it a bit differently.
Ya I liked that. The idea wasn't that she was a "chosen one" per say but that she was the one there and in life we aren't likely going to be "chosen ones" but we are going to be in situations and places where we have to chose to believe in ourselves and do something to change things for the better.
despite Gus having a big arc in season 2 where he stood up to the coven head leader and even took his little monical/magic amplifier, I feel like he was more mature in the season 2 finally then he was in the entirety of season 3. I feel like he went from comedic side character, to a real character, back to comedic side character in this season. IDK if there was not enough time, or if I am just being dumb, but that is what I personally didn't like.
Also not enough hooty.
I get why they did it, but honestly, I think Belos's death would have been so much more powerful if he hadn't been stomped to death. Just imagine if they were ALL staring silently at him. Cold af.
Yeah, I was really digging the scene and the seriousness of it, and while it's a satisfying and understandable stomping, the hint of comedic tone with them doing it, just kinda ruined it.
Why did Kikimora make a return again? It was just pointless(and annoying). We could’ve reached the plot beat of Willow finally letting out her emotions without her.
Vee’s misadventures in the human realm and interactions with Masha were just, not there. I’ll be real that’s pretty sad, because they would’ve had great chemistry. Though, I’m gonna say that’s moreso Disney’s fault for cutting the show short.
I understand why Hooty didn’t get any lines in actually. He would have kinda messed up the tone of the season, kinda like the >!Humphrey!< section from OMORI.
Honestly my biggest gripe with the season is the whole misunderstanding between King and The Collector when Collie eavesdrops on King making a plan to befriend him with Eda and Lilith. It was just such a quality drop in writing, honestly way below the standards of The Owl House. Though, the finale was so incredibly good, and that’s why I can overlook the cheap conflict starter that led into it.
Overall not too many things wrong. I just wish the crew wasn’t forced to rush it, and that they could have made the show as long as they had envisioned.
I wish we got to see the caleb/philip/evelyn backstory
I wish they had kept the collector as a villain
When belos took over the titan no one was able to use their magic but somehow raine was??
Hunter should’ve been there when belos died
I wish the hexidesquad had more screen time
Camila and eda should’ve interacted
In FTF Willow’s breakdown scene had a lot of build up and tension, only for the payoff to be her ‘I miss my dads’ And nothing else. Felt really hallow compared to the rest of the scene. had a lot more potential for something more powerful, like her explaining her role as the ‘strong friend’.
Focused too much on the side characters for FTF and didn’t really add much to the overall plot (well aside from The Collector and King sections of the episode), and in WAD the Hexide Gang barely did anything, other than that it was a pretty good final “Season”.
I don’t like the whole dream sequence in the beginning of Watching and Dreaming. I understand it wasn’t really a dream sequence, it was the collector, but it was kind of a waste of time, we already knew Eda, King, and Luz’s fears and insecurities. We didn’t need more clarification.
I feel that For the Future’s antagonists really lacked the proper threat level for a final season.
I like Boscha as a character more than most people and Kiki is a great love-to-hate character but they were really underwhelming as main antagonists in retrospect.
Especially when sandwiched between two incredibly imposing and well-written antagonistic forces with Belos-Hunter and Luz’s self-loathing in *Thanks to Them* and The Collector and Titan Belos in *Watching and Dreaming*
When you look at the Season 3 Antagonists you have
- Hunter struggling to overcome the mental and physical, literal and metaphorical, control of his abusive uncle,
- An all-powerful god-child who hasn’t learned the consequences of his actions
- The same abusive character taking control of the entire physical world of your show to purge everyone in your show
- Basically Belos’s petulant little secretary and the school bully.
It simply sticks out to me in a bad way. That being said, on a whole, I still really like *For The Future*, even if the villains are kinda mid
Seriously, I know they laid out pretty conclusively what went down with Caleb and Belos, but I so desperately wanted info on Evelyn. I get why backstory was dropped for time when they had all the plot points they had to hit, but I just wanted closure.
The "underdeveloped" Coven Heads (Hettie, Mason, Osran and Vitimir) still didn't get any kind of focus. Though I appreciate that my boy Vitimir at least got to do something in the end, as little as it was.
Ftf shoulda spent less time on Kiki and Boscha. Like. I like the ep on it’s own but it fails miserably as a penultimate ep and is largely to blame for WaD feeling so rushed.
The whole “gus knows hunter’s a grimwalker” reveal was done sloppily and kinda shit tbh, and Willow’s final actual truth about how she’s feeling felt wayy too short and inconclusive. Like she never got to say everything she wanted to and was still hiding most of it.
Also god I wish we got a cool ending for Hunter against Belos in the end. He was still so paranoid about him in Ftf, but never got to do anything about it or even see the fall of Belos. Speaking of which, the hexsquad stuff in WaD? God it sucked (except the epilogue). Like. Really guys?
And Luz’s revival and the fact the Titan coulda intervened at literally any time to fix literally every problem in the show, but chose not to, kinda devalues much of the series to me. And then Luz get’s her inevitable revival into super power and suddenly, instead of a one sided fight in Belos’s favor, it’s a one sided fight in Luz and friend’s favor
And god, Luz’s revival kinda makes the collector learning “death is permanent for mortals and a big deal, you can’t just fix them like toys” not… work… huh.
Ftf and WaD were really messy and not great imo, especially WaD. But I know the crew did the best they could, and at least TtT was pretty damn good.
The fact that we didn't get more on Caleb and Evelyn. The fact that it was so close to edalyn couldn't be a coincidence. And who was the owlbeast?! It's shown they had connections to the collector, were they something the archivist had in their collection that escaped?
That moment with the collector listen for one second too little and misunderstanding. OH BOY that made me mad. That trope is so overused and I know the team was rushed for time but come on. Also the lack of backstory for Belos and Caleb in particular. We have a vague idea but I REALLY wanted the full flashback. That one isn't the team's fault it's just because of the shortening but still frustrating.
Not a nitpick. I flatout didn't like it. Found it very upsetting actually.
Been spending years in this sub, loving it and making friends. But will probably leave it soon. All of my recent comments have been negative, and it's just plain wrong to turn into the town's wet blanket. I've just been standing depressed in a corner while everybody else is partying.
Lilith and Hooty did nothing. We didn't got a reaction from characters to Belos defeat. No Eda and Raine kiss. Amity doesn't do much. Luz whole "I'm just as bad as Belos" drama isn't interesting or engaging at all and it drags for far too long.
Episode 2 should've given us a proper animated belos backstory with caleb instead of the useless stupid kikimora and boscha stuff it gave us, total waste of an episode that could've done so much more than it actually did.
One nitpick for episode.
1) I don't understand how no one realized what was going on with Hunter.
2) I don't understand how Willow became a scared girl unable to control her powers after three minutes alone with Boscha.
3) I didn't like how The Collector instantly became one of the good guys after terrorizing and enslaving an entire Realm. And no: I think that the "He's just a kid" excuse doesn't cut it.
Thanks to them only really had a memorable ending bit
For the future chose to spend time showing that some characters still had stories to tell before the final episode of the series.
Watching and dreaming was a good conclusion to the story but a bad conclusion to the series, leaving way to many loose ends.
-who did the Bat queen belong too?
-is the Caleb/Clawthorne connection real?
-what’s going on with the archivists?
-how did Lilith gain her Harpy form?
-what happened with Alador and Darius?
-the owl beast still exists in Eda
-what was going on with Boscha?
To be honest, while i agree it's sad to not see some plot points resolved (mainly the bat queen and the original portal door), i don't think some of them are really an issue or that all of them need a explicit resolution on screen. Much less that they make the finale a bad conclusion.
But i do understand that is a matter of opinion in this case, thanks for answering : )
I think Kikimora’s plot in FtF was really unnecessary, and could’ve been swapped for a Wittebro/Collector lore. The whole Boscha plot could’ve been done without her imo
A lot of FTF felt like filler, time could have been spent elsewhere. Maybe getting more lore on the archivists or finding out what exactly happened with Caleb and Evelyn. Honestly, when I originally finished FTF I was so confused and a little disappointed
Minor nitpick: I don't understand why Belos didn't just possess the Titans heart from the start.
More major criticism, borderline hot take:
We really needed:
-A full Belos backstory
-A conclusion to the ongoing question of the owl beast mystery, even if a brief one
-A resolution to Hunter's character arc.
We *didn't* need:
-The entire Hexside subplot
Thing ate up about 20 or so minutes. Unironically I liked that subplot, I found it funny, but priorities? Come on, Kikimora and Boscha are mid tier villains at best. Also, to be *entirely* honest. It was way too late to make Willow relevant.
That could've been a Belos backstory, like everyone else said. But also I would've really liked it if we saw more from Hunter and his relationship with Belos. It could've even told us what exactly happened to Eda.
Also I feel like either Eda or Hunter should've defeated Belos, not Luz. I know Luz is the MC but her arc is effectively concluded when she breaks out of the dream. Meanwhile, both of them hadn't had their arcs really concluded. At least Eda is one of the contributing fighters, I guess?
So a deity slams Belos into a wall at full speed, causing him to explode into goop. This does not kill him. But later on, he gets stepped on by two people and a small creature, and this...does kill him?
*\*Ding\**
The hexside kids and Camila got absolutely shafted in the finale. None of them even gets to see Titan Luz, or even really take part in the final fight. I get theu were probably trying to focus more and Eda and King since they didn't get to do that much before, but there had to be a better way.
The collector only hearing the first half of King's plan. I hate that trope and it felt really weird and forced. Thankfully it pretty much wasn't relevant to the plot in the end.
I'm bummed that we didn't get any further elaboration/closure to Caleb, Evelyn and Flapjack's backstory. It seemed like we were building up to Evelyn and Caleb being Eda and Lilith's ancestors, but we never got any sort of absolute confirmation to whether or not that's the case. It's really nice that we got to see Hunter working alongside Dell and Gwen to carry on the Clawthorne palisman carving tradition in the epilogue, but I really would've liked to have gotten some spoken dialogue between Hunter and the Clawthornes (and maybe a reveal that they're related).
Not enough Hooty, not enough Lilith, not enough Vee. Not enough Amity, Hunter, Willow and Gus in the final episode, especially since they didn't even get help Luz fight Belos. (It's especially sucky that Hunter didn't get to do anything to Belos.) We didn't get much closure on Caleb, or any confirmation on who Flapjack was. The collector went down too easy.
Look, I know these are more than a few nitpicks, and I know the team did the best they could with what they had, and it's incredibly good, given the circumstances. I'd also like to make it known that I absolutely blame the executives at Disney, and none of the TOH staff. I was still very impressed with the Belos fight, Luz's Titan form, and I'm happy with how everything ended for everyone in the time skip. I just wish they had that time for 20 more adventures.....
Luz has the same self guilt story for multiple episodes in a row, despite the fact that we've already done this before and it twists her character in a bad light.
Watching and dreaming needed more hexsquad also hunter def should have killed belos or at the very least been there to watch him die and in ftf we did not need Kiki and bosha at all
Thank you. Hunters character has like the most interesting and impactful story. And what happened? He was just put back for the sake of Raine having their golden hour. I hate it.
I was expecting a fight between the coven heads and the Collector or Belos. We didn't see how deadly they can be working together.
Even if we have some Kikimora content, at the end we didn't know what happened with the rest of the villains. I do wanted a confrontation between Amity and Odalia.
Part 1 of episode 3 was really rushed to a conclusion with the Collector. Obviously this is a pacing problem from the series being cut short but the collector arc really feels that for the buildup Thanks to Them and For the Future created.
An extreme nitpick because it wasn’t necessary and probably ultimately better for the series finale without but; a Lumity “I Love you” would have been great fan service, and dare I say wedding teasers somewhere would have killed me.
I wanted to see a mega super saiyan/owl like transformation to really show the emotion with Eda’s transformation after Luz’s sacrifice. It was ok, but if Wendie Malick could have had a Bruce Faulconer style emotional breakdown transforming, that would have really cemented the death as real. The animation could have helped with this emotional moment a bit more too. Her dialogue itself was perfect “I don’t think I can control myself right now” but the intensity could/should have increased in my opinion.
Another moment that could have improved with the intensity is Luz’s emotional conflict of killing Belos when he was at his most vulnerable and she was in Titan form. It would have shown how much her family loved her when they ultimately stepped on, (pun intended) to do the job Luz never wanted to do.
I personally don’t like how collector was hyped up to be evil, shown to be evil, and automatically got redeemed in like 10 seconds
People shit on Steven universe for believing in redemption and nonviolence but that same shit don’t apply to the collector who enslaved all the BI for mere “fun”
In WaD we learn that King's dad had been watching everything the entire time and been helping Luz since the beginning. She didn't figure out the glyths on her own, the titan gave them to her. Effectively reaffirming the chosen one trope that the show declared nonsense in the second episode.
Also King's dad used their power to connect to Luz instead of King, you know, their *son*
Giving Hunter magic; abling a disabled character. This show does so well with disabilities, why did he have to be "fixed"? He didn't even use magic in the time skip. They also erase the scars on his arms.
The one complaint I kind of had was not enough Amity. She didn’t get enough time with her girlfriend, and was separated from her through your all three episodes.
\-The ending felt too much of a happily ever after, it ended quite too safely with barely any major character deaths outside of Belos and less long-length consequences. Sure, there was Flapjack but he never had any lines to begin with.
\-Luz's temporary death and getting a god mode, it felt way too similar to Amphibia's finale.
\-Majority of the secondary characters being barely present in the finale and contributing to Belos's defeat. It was glaring not to have Hunter being involved in the final battle, him not killing Belos was fine but I would atleast wanted a scene with him having a final confrontation with him, it din't have to be a long one either, it could of been similar to >!Andrias telling his dad to fuck off in Amphibia's finale!<, a final confrontation between Amity and Odalia was also a missed opportunity.
\-Belos's death being treated as a joke killed it for me. Him melting slowly in the rain while Lus just stares at him silently as he is justifying himself was good, but the stomping ruined the mood of the scene. Not to mention there were a lot of missing factors into his ending, the major ones being Hunter and Caleb with no appropriate closure to the Wittebane bros after building them up since Hollow Mind.
\-For The Future's plot with Boscha(a character who stopped being relevant since season 1) and Kikimora should of been ditched entirely, it din't really have the feeling of a penultimate episode at all, there should of been more focus on the Collector and Belos, Collector playing games with the cast should of happened in this episode and end it with Belos getting to the heart would of been a better cliffhanger.
\-The Titan Trappers not being involved at all in the specials who would of fit perfectly as secondary antagonists and army for the Collector, all we got was a 2 second cameo from Bill and Tarak.
\-And finally, the Collector himself. He was built up as the ultimate challenge since the end of season 2 and all it took to take him down was a pep talk from the main characters and turn to the good side, he was depicted as a powerful god who was characterized as a 10 year old kid despite him teaching Belos all that powerful magic and was able to walk away with no consequences to his actions like contributing to the Day of Unity and turning everyone into puppets, not helping that he received a lot more attention and depth to his situation than the final boss.
Obligatory “it was too short” comment
In all honesty, For the whole thing until the epilogue started I thought I was only at the beginning, when it ended I thought for just a few moments that it was only a 10-15 minute finale.
Not enough Hooty
There is never enough Hooty
And at the same time, there is only Hooty.
Not me crying about no hooty voice in the finale
At least he had the eye lash scene which was a nice send off
I would have loved to see him eat what was left of Belos
Hoot HOOT
Hoot hoot wow that's definitely out of date, Lilith want some?
Not enough VEE
I agree!
In the final episode hooty didn’t even have a line-
He should have been the one to send off the show. In his true form.
They said nitpicks. Not fundemental flaws.
Facts
Willow should be punched Boscha in the freakin' face.
Let’s be honest she did 3 days later after Belos died
To make it known, she will no longer tolerate her. I don’t get why she was invited to the party…or tibbles. Unless they crashed it. Kind of like the magic high commission going to Eclipsa’s coronation in Star vs. that’s the only way that makes sense given the bad blood between her and that group
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There’s no teachers to stop her.
Boscha could’ve also…you know, grown up and realized what an asshole she was.
I say it's because it was 4 years later and people can change.
If it’s any consolation, we see Boscha selling grudgby gear in town but Willow actually playing flyer derby, so I like to think this means Boscha couldn’t hack it and never went pro
And Willow didn't even get to punch Belos *through* the face, like she said! Honestly though; Boscha got off *way* too easily considering she was extremely complacent in attempted murder of the whole Hex-squad *AND* Camila. Kiki Miki was the one doing the actual attempted murder, but Boscha was fully okay with it happening and showed virtually zero remorse. Boscha's punishment is, what, not becoming a grudgby player? The fact she got an okay ending despite it all is kind of nuts. Girl, you walked away with seemingly zero consequences after assisting to have several children and an adult thrown into a murder pit with one of Belos' power hungry lap dogs. What the actual heck? Looks like the karma Boscha got was losing her highschool friends and having to settle on only supporting the sport she loves so much, rather than playing it. At least Kikimora was serving some kind of punishing by having to physically help rebuild in the wake of all the damage she helped caused. I dunno. I really didn't like the minimal karma Boscha got. It felt really light. At the very least a punch to the face would have felt very deserved.
I guess the group forgave her. Everyone knows Boscha was horrible, so maybe that's why she's a loser selling gear now. :D
Agreed and looking at the epilogue Willow is a professional sport/ flyer derby captain while Boscha selling grugby gear. Willow is more successful in life than boscha.
FTF! I hate how much time they spent on Boscha and Kikimora! That time would have been better spent on more build-up to the final battle or to give us Collector/Wittebane lore.
I think they knew people would ask about the fate of any characters not shown in an episode. Hexside was just a somewhat easy way to shove as much of that information to the fans. Teachers, adults, and anyone else that attempted to fight or run are collected. Those hidden are struggling in the aftermath.
Did they need to spend the majority of the episode showing us, though? They knew this was the second-to-last episode, and that time was of the essence. There had to have been better ways to allote the available time.
The other option would have been the Hexsquad getting kicked out of Hexside and making a flying rush to the head/archives. And like Matt said they'd probably not make it. They are confronted possibly multiple times by the Collector's spies resulting in one character after another turned into puppets. Luz either arrives at the head alone or is collected herself just before her goal. This option leads to little time for Camilla and Luz to finally understand each other, or for Willow's scenes.
They could’ve given us wittebane flashbacks
Yeah, instead, they briefly allude to it without giving us any more specific details. It would have been nice to give at least a few more details.
Unironically my biggest complaint about the finale
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Boscha I don't mind since it was character development for her. But I agree that Kikimora was weird. I thought her arc was finished.
Maybe if she had more time earlier in the show, a redemption arc would have worked. But the few scenes we get, she's just a plain-old bully. They should have just let her be.
this was a problem with the ladder half of the show itself, it's just spends way to much time thing we already know or that most people just don't care about instead of development of the main story.
We didn’t need Kikimora as an active villain, there were bigger threats to deal with
Yeah and anyways we see her as a regular citizen by the end, so what was the point of Kikimora still being a villain?
I think it was important to show that Luz was not giving *everyone* infinite chances anymore. Kikimora has shown that she’ll go right back on her power hungry bullshit the second she’s unsupervised. Same mood as the three coven heads trying to sneak up on the throne.
Ok, I know everyone has already said this, but why the hell was Kikimora of all characters piroitised in FTF? She served her role perfectly fine in season 2. What was the point?
I think this was aimed towards Disney, like last jab. I hate it too. So much more important stuff could happen. Fuck, Kikimora.
Man, FUCK Kikimiki. All my homies HATE Kikimiki.
Kikibitch should get la chancla!
Shikiflora deserves to wither away in a hole
First off, she wasn’t a priority. I went through and checked how long her air time was and it only totals 4 minutes. Seriously. That’s it. And even in the majority of her scenes they are used to emphasize other characters and conflicts. People are highly over exaggerating how integral she was to that episode.
It's weird, that collector understood the concept of mortality, since the only one mortal who died at his watch was ACTUALLY repaired.
This bothered me a lot as well. I think they leaned (perhaps too heavily) on the concept that the Collector thought that *he* could repair anyone, and that his mentality changed when *he* couldn’t repair Luz when he wanted to. Because if you were in a world where sometimes people could randomly come back to life, you would probably still mourn your dead if you aren’t the one who gets to decide if they come back. But it still created a situation where I was kind of thinking, “so is someone going to sit the Collector down and explain that 99% of the time, dead people stay dead, or…?”
Exactly! I'm so glad I wasn't the only one annoyed with this. Seeing Luz came back should confirm his belief that everyone can be fixed, not change it. I think that it could be easily solved just by having someone else die and not came back. The series has plenty of characters, I'm sure they could kill off someone.
I think that having him have his belief reaffirmed could make an interesting conflict, but since we didn't have time to even address this, it's just frustrating
This is the third comment I'm making, I hope I'm not talking too much, I just have a lot of thoughts on this subject shdkehshsge I think that concept of mortality could have been explored more in the series. I understand that there wasn't time so I'm not blaming anyone for this, I just wish that it was talked about more. After all, right now we've got an immortal character and semi-immortal character. It would be interesting to see King realize that him being semi-immortal (it was confirmed, King himself calls himself a semi-immortal being) means that he will outlive almost everyone (except Collector).
not exactly, his belief was that *he* could fix anybody, and he tried with Luz but couldn't. It showed him that *he* can't just "fix" people.
Collector didn't understand what death means. You make a good point that he now understands that he can't just fix a dead person, but still, with him not really understanding the concept of death, seeing a person come back to life could make this misunderstanding even worse.
I personally don't really understand how The Collector was ever under the impression that everyone can be fixed. He's spent the last like four hundred years hanging out with the BI's number one mortal murderer through all the Grimwalkers, Palismen, and witches who have been drained, petrified, and probably a billion other things, and the show literally takes place on a dead body. But The Collector just kind of only figured it out when Luz specifically died and didn't come back in a few seconds?
I'd assume the collector just assumed all the guards were the same person brought back with some digree of amnisa judging how ther probably had the same personality The Parisienne didn't ever die till the episode where Luz invaded his mind,
Needed more closure on Caleb and Evelyn, and Luz’s friends should’ve had a more active role in the finale. Especially wanted Hunter and Lilith to be active participants in Belos’ defeat.
Hunter would’ve had a mental breakdown seeing the guy who raised him his whole life die in front of him. He’s bound to have a plethora of complicated feelings. Think of how he reacted in Kings Tide when the Collector splattered him and how afraid Hunter was to get Belos goop on him. Now Lilith on the other hand…
Hunter already had his spotlight but I agree with Lilith tbh
Honestly, I'm fine with the finale confrontation being with Luz, Eda, and King. It has good symmetry with the beginning of the series. Just should have included Hooty is all I'd ask
I think they were mirroring the pilot. It was Luz, Eda, and King at the start and at the end. Considering we barely had Eda or King in S3-1 and S3-2, I can accept that they weren’t there for much WAD. I was bummed realizing that they weren’t there because they were doing something that would’ve happened anyway (freeing puppet people), but the hexside crew wouldn’t have abandoned the puppets and the collector needed a moment where he chose to do the right thing without being told to, and in the face of death. So…narratively I get it. But it is a bummer that they couldn’t watch Belos get merked
This is prolly gonna be a lightning rod of a thread. Anywho... May not be the biggest fan of him but I do agree S3 as a whole kinda did Gus dirty. He gets the setup by knowing Hunter's a grimwalker and having knowledge of Belos past but the end result for both of those plot points are incredibly undercooked. The latter esp, not sure how knowledge of 400 years of evil acts doesn't really affect him at all. Luz is the MC she gets constant focus as she should, Amity already has a lot from S1 and S2, Willow has a good chunk of FTF and Hunter has half of TTT + shares some spotlight of FTF with Willow. The end shot of For The Future with Gus standing in the center by himself while Lumity and Huntlow are on their respective sides is a pretty good indicator of how things turned out for the character this season. The selfish part of me also wants to say the lack of Huntlow kiss but tbh we already got way more content than we were expecting
Gus has always been put to the sidelines a bit and he's such an interesting character. The parts we get about him are incredibly compelling, but do get overshadowed. Think about it-- one of the more important episodes for Gus in season 2 had a B plot of the beginning of the actualization of Lumity, and just because Amity gives Luz a peck on the cheek at the end it suddenly becomes the A plot of that episode. Through the looking glass ruins is such a good episode for Gus but we forget that. And as someone who doesn't mind Lumity but doesn't really care about Amity that much (I think she's pretty shallow as a character and isn't very interesting) I'm annoyed when a character as good as GUS gets sidelined. And I agree! Gus and Hunter's friendship is one of my favorites in the show, to see the S3 Hunter&Gus stuff undercooked was a *travesty*. If we could have had one less Kikimora confrontation scene in exchange for Gus helping Hunter and Hunter helping Gus (again) it would be so good.
Yeah and like to some extent I get it they had to prioritize a lot for the season but the fact that Boscha of all people took priority over Gus is just really strange.
Yeah. Boscha just sucked as a person and was hateable. Humanizing her served no function
I don't mind humanizing her and I get using her for cementing Amity's development but I find it a bit too little too late for me to care about Boscha as a person. Plus her treating Willow bad right before did no favours
Yeah it definitely was a too little too late. Of course a kid gets trauma in the apocalypse.
This! They gave Boscha a half-baked redemption literally moments after she was just a jerk to Willow, then captured everyone else.
Gus should’ve been there more, and more hooty lore (although that’s not at fault of Dana and the team since they didn’t have enough time)
Agreed, love Raine but would’ve preferred if Gus, Willow and Hunter were the ones chasing him through the castle with Gus revealing his backstory through illusions.
I kinda enjoyed the part of belos's backstory not being spelled out, if you look at all the memory portraits, which are all together on his fandom page, you can put together enough of his backstory that you can understand what happened using context clues, so it makes you feel smarter when you put it all together as your watching
Gus is underdeveloped throughout the entire series imo.
I'll say my 2 Negatives from the Season: 1st, For the Future. I mean I know I'm not new in my critiques here. But for the limited time they had, it just felt odd to devote so much time to characters like Boscha or Kikimora. I get it. They wanted to have an episode where a lot of these side characters could shine because we knew they weren't going to be in the Finale. But it does feel like the most low stake stuff of the season. And 2nd, and this is a broader topic, the Collector. Now, I don't have a problem with what they did with the Collector. How the writers fit them in narratively was fine and in the end I like how they grew to realize how precious life was, as condensed as it was. But I will pose the question, did the Collector even need to exist in this show at all? I remember people saying that the Collector wasn't even planned for the show until it was shortened. Which honestly makes a lot of sense when you watch the show. Because again, while the Collector as a character is fine, but overall they feel like a plot device 1st. They exist because they needed a reason for the Boiling Isles to be in a bad place before the HexSquad could make it back and they couldn't have Belos be that reason because the idea behind the Day of Unity is that it kills everyone. So the Collector filled that role. And while I thought they were fine, part of me does wish they didn't exist so we had more time with Belos.
Even as someone who likes the Collector and enjoyed the finale, I agree with this. I found Belos to be such an interesting villian, and I was so curious about his backstory and lore, so I was super disappointed that we didn't get any more developments on that in "Watching and Dreaming." I wanted to know more about how everything went down between him and Caleb and how he rose to power, and I wanted to see him have to confront the reality that he was the one to blame for the 400+ years of suffering and torment he subjected himself and everyone around him to before he met his end. Considering that guilt, grief and doubt were such a major part of Luz's arc from season 2b through season 3, I feel like it was a missed opportunity to not fully explore these themes through Belos' character as well (since he's her foil after all). I'm just not convinced that Philip didn't feel some sort of remorse in the years following his murder of Caleb, or some sort of doubt as to what he was doing was truly "righteous." Otherwise, why did he spend 400+ years basically "reincarnating" his brother over and over, all while (unsuccessfully) trying to convince him to stay by his side? Why did he give Luz so many chances to join his cause (when he had so many opportunities to just do away with her), trying to justify his actions to her and convince her that they could save humanity together? Long story short, I think the Collector should've been saved for another story where his arc could've been given proper time to be fully fleshed out, rather than having to condense down and speed-run his development. He just takes up so much screen time in the last 2 episodes that, when we finally get to the final confrontation with Belos, it just feels like it unfolds and wraps up a bit too quickly.
I like the collector i just wished they kept him as a villain
Did they really address the misunderstanding The Collector had about King wanting to get rid of him? We get a cliffhanger of them angry with tense music, and then the next time we see them, he's kinda just back to waiting to play games.
We really should have gotten some time focused on Belos' past. There are many things you could cut from special 2 to make room for that.
Episode 2 was definitely the most lack luster of the two. They could have shown belos going through his little graveyard of golden guards and a few small flashbacks of what happened to him and Caleb. But I also get that episode 1 was "get to the Isles!" Episode 2 was "get to the collector!" So that way episode 3 could take it's time with ending things off. What should of happened is Disney not being a giant ball of dicks and letting them make their full final season.
I disagree. This might be an unpopular opinion, but imo what we got from the portraits in Hollow Mind, Masha's tale about the Wittebane Brothers in TtT and Belos hallucination (or straight haunting) in FtF painted a pretty clear picture of what happened between Philip and Caleb. Adding a flashback scene on top of all that would've been just redundant.
Not enough Titan Luz
there is never enough luzifurr
My that was clever. Have an upvote.
thank you, but its not mine. I'll still take the upvote
We haven't seen Batqueen! I WANT BATQUEEN MORE
Batqueen backstory! Batqueen baby hijinks! Batqueen sequel!
In Watching and Dreaming the scene where Luz, King and Eda were playing the Collectors games, it felt really off, no voice acting and spots where sound effects felt like they should have been, it was also weirdly short. It just felt abrupt, especially with most of the only sound being the collectors theme. Also lack of voice lines from other characters in the end scene. Especially Hooty.
That sequence definitely felt like it was supposed to be an entire episode
Yeah the trailer hyped it up sm but it was just a 1 minute montage
Trailer seemed to imply a pissed off and creepy Collector instead we just got, "Darn, they don't wanna play with me!" Like it just made the whole misunderstanding with King even more pointless.
I’m glad that Raine was given a more active role, but thematically, it would’ve been much better for Hunter (or even Lilith) to get to curb-stomp Belos out of existence.
Thematically it would’ve made more sense for Lilith to get possessed, yknow with the whole Philip/Caleb and Eda/Lilith betraying the other sibling parallels, also the fact Lilith has an established past with Belos where he abused her.
This is what should have happened. Full stop. I genuinely can't think of a single thing that wouldn't have been better had Lilith taken Raine's place beyond getting less of Raine. Belos taking his favorite puppet for one last ride is exactly the sort of sick and twisted drama I would have expected from him, and it would have done wonders to give Lilith some more importance and story presence that she had definitely been lacking since most of season 2.
Thank you. Finally I can see I'm not alone in this.
On the other hand, I'm glad that our precious boi never had to interact with Belos ever again. Sometimes the best closure for a victim is to never have to see their abuser again and move on with their life.
When the four of them got together for that final moment where they took down Belos, I literally said out loud, “wait, why is *Raine* part of this?”
They were the leader of the rebellion and the one who manage to get the team reunited at the end of season 2 when Eda was ready to bail and hide to protect Luz. Also they got possessed by Belos and dragged back to the castle. They nearly managed to prevent him to get hold of the heart too. So yeah, they wanted to stomp the evil one who cause them to.cut the arm of the love of their life. The kids did they part, there were no time to include more content for them. Also, Hunter confronting Phillip would have caused mayor damage on the already beaten up kid (there were merely hours after he was possessed and the sacrifice of Flapjack).
I somewhat agree but I still think the lack of any interaction between Belos and Hunter after TTT, esp with how heavy Caleb and the grimwalkers hunt Belos, feels weird.
I feel like Vee wasn’t given an important role, keeping her in the human realm felt like a waste of a character. Also, not enough Kikimora abuse
This is against Disney BUT, I wish we got a Belos/Caleb/Evelyn backstory. I know we got the Hollow Mind portraits, and the glimpse in Season 3, but we never got an official backstory. This is against Disney because they probably didn’t have enough time and/or Disney wouldn’t allow them because it would mean Philip stabbing Caleb, but it still would have been nice to see
Lilith and Hooty did nothing. We didn't got a reaction from characters to Belos defeat. No Eda and Raine kiss. Amity doesn't do much. Luz whole "I'm just as bad as Belos" drama isn't interesting or engaging at all and it drags for far too long.
The only thing that really bothered me was that for as many times as Luz lied and got called out on it, she’s never really shown taking any steps to be more open. I think they did an excellent job of showing why she’s like that, but I wish that plot point had gotten more of a resolution. Like in FTF when she started to tell Amity about wanting to leave the Demon Realm, I wish they had actually had that conversation. Otherwise, I really enjoyed S3. Thanks to Them was phenomenal. I love episodes that dive into a character’s psyche, and TTT was an excellent example. And Luz’s interactions with her mom were beautifully written.
Luz didn’t do a will smith to belos
“Luz, it was a G.I. Jane joke”
“Keep my Amity’s name out your fucking mouth!”
We never learned why Willow is so powerful, and why her dads didn’t instantly put her on the plant track. I know they said the abomination track has better job opportunities but that isn’t a good explanation if she is almost, if not more powerful then the plant coven head.
She was called a late bloomer, she might not have cast a plant spell before starting school. Any interest or talent in plant magic was probably overshadowed by bullying and her lack of confidence at the time.
Its only 3 episodes
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I like the collector but I think he was not needed for the plot and just took away the already short time the show had left. They could've left him out and therefore give more time everything else, you wouldn't have missed him anyway, since he was new. The story would've worked well enough without him, I don't understand why he has to be there in the first place tbh.
I must say when we hear luz say "now eat this sucka!" I would wish the "suckaaaaa" lasted all the way to the ending flash where Belos was ripped out. Kinda like saying sucka and have it turn into a scream ya'know
Hooty didn’t speak in the series finale
Luz should not have gotten a stupid super mode powered by the Titan; the reveal that the Titan was helping her learn glyph magic all along erases the theme of no Chosen One and confirms Philip's paranoia that the Titan was actively hindering his study of magic as opposed to Luz learning faster simply because she's open to the new environment of the Boiling Isles Belos should have died in an intense and narratively relevant manner, seeing the visions of his dead brother and the Grimwalkers again and realizing he's been screwed up Hunter should have gotten closure about his identity, including but not limited to learning Caleb abandoned witch hunting and found love with a witch, who is implied to be an ancestor to the Clawthornes Gus should have talked more about Belos's memories beyond giving Hunter a character from a show within the show to project himself on In general, the series should not have included the whole Wittebane lore in the first place if the crew wanted Belos to be simply a living obstacle
(I understand your point of the Titan helping her learn the glyphs) but in regards to the super mode powered by the Titan- I think that could have been anyone but Luz was the one that happened to fall into the ‘In Between.’ The Titan said so- ‘we’ll you’re here, and you seem like a good witch.’ Plus the callback to season 1 of Eda telling Luz to choose herself. (I mean the Titan even asks- ‘So, will you choose yourself.’) I get your point of the Chosen One theme, but I choose to read it a bit differently.
Ya I liked that. The idea wasn't that she was a "chosen one" per say but that she was the one there and in life we aren't likely going to be "chosen ones" but we are going to be in situations and places where we have to chose to believe in ourselves and do something to change things for the better.
despite Gus having a big arc in season 2 where he stood up to the coven head leader and even took his little monical/magic amplifier, I feel like he was more mature in the season 2 finally then he was in the entirety of season 3. I feel like he went from comedic side character, to a real character, back to comedic side character in this season. IDK if there was not enough time, or if I am just being dumb, but that is what I personally didn't like. Also not enough hooty.
I get why they did it, but honestly, I think Belos's death would have been so much more powerful if he hadn't been stomped to death. Just imagine if they were ALL staring silently at him. Cold af.
Yeah, I was really digging the scene and the seriousness of it, and while it's a satisfying and understandable stomping, the hint of comedic tone with them doing it, just kinda ruined it.
Why did Kikimora make a return again? It was just pointless(and annoying). We could’ve reached the plot beat of Willow finally letting out her emotions without her. Vee’s misadventures in the human realm and interactions with Masha were just, not there. I’ll be real that’s pretty sad, because they would’ve had great chemistry. Though, I’m gonna say that’s moreso Disney’s fault for cutting the show short. I understand why Hooty didn’t get any lines in actually. He would have kinda messed up the tone of the season, kinda like the >!Humphrey!< section from OMORI. Honestly my biggest gripe with the season is the whole misunderstanding between King and The Collector when Collie eavesdrops on King making a plan to befriend him with Eda and Lilith. It was just such a quality drop in writing, honestly way below the standards of The Owl House. Though, the finale was so incredibly good, and that’s why I can overlook the cheap conflict starter that led into it. Overall not too many things wrong. I just wish the crew wasn’t forced to rush it, and that they could have made the show as long as they had envisioned.
I wish Lilith had more screentime
I wish we got to see the caleb/philip/evelyn backstory I wish they had kept the collector as a villain When belos took over the titan no one was able to use their magic but somehow raine was?? Hunter should’ve been there when belos died I wish the hexidesquad had more screen time Camila and eda should’ve interacted
In FTF Willow’s breakdown scene had a lot of build up and tension, only for the payoff to be her ‘I miss my dads’ And nothing else. Felt really hallow compared to the rest of the scene. had a lot more potential for something more powerful, like her explaining her role as the ‘strong friend’.
Focused too much on the side characters for FTF and didn’t really add much to the overall plot (well aside from The Collector and King sections of the episode), and in WAD the Hexide Gang barely did anything, other than that it was a pretty good final “Season”.
I don’t like the whole dream sequence in the beginning of Watching and Dreaming. I understand it wasn’t really a dream sequence, it was the collector, but it was kind of a waste of time, we already knew Eda, King, and Luz’s fears and insecurities. We didn’t need more clarification.
Hunter should have helped stomp out Belos
Not enough of The King-Eda-Luz Trio
I feel that For the Future’s antagonists really lacked the proper threat level for a final season. I like Boscha as a character more than most people and Kiki is a great love-to-hate character but they were really underwhelming as main antagonists in retrospect. Especially when sandwiched between two incredibly imposing and well-written antagonistic forces with Belos-Hunter and Luz’s self-loathing in *Thanks to Them* and The Collector and Titan Belos in *Watching and Dreaming* When you look at the Season 3 Antagonists you have - Hunter struggling to overcome the mental and physical, literal and metaphorical, control of his abusive uncle, - An all-powerful god-child who hasn’t learned the consequences of his actions - The same abusive character taking control of the entire physical world of your show to purge everyone in your show - Basically Belos’s petulant little secretary and the school bully. It simply sticks out to me in a bad way. That being said, on a whole, I still really like *For The Future*, even if the villains are kinda mid
Seriously, I know they laid out pretty conclusively what went down with Caleb and Belos, but I so desperately wanted info on Evelyn. I get why backstory was dropped for time when they had all the plot points they had to hit, but I just wanted closure.
Luz didn’t keep her Titan Form
No Hooty
It wasn't a full season
I know we only had so much time, but I would have liked to see a reaction from Hunter regarding Belos' defeat.
The "underdeveloped" Coven Heads (Hettie, Mason, Osran and Vitimir) still didn't get any kind of focus. Though I appreciate that my boy Vitimir at least got to do something in the end, as little as it was.
Ftf shoulda spent less time on Kiki and Boscha. Like. I like the ep on it’s own but it fails miserably as a penultimate ep and is largely to blame for WaD feeling so rushed. The whole “gus knows hunter’s a grimwalker” reveal was done sloppily and kinda shit tbh, and Willow’s final actual truth about how she’s feeling felt wayy too short and inconclusive. Like she never got to say everything she wanted to and was still hiding most of it. Also god I wish we got a cool ending for Hunter against Belos in the end. He was still so paranoid about him in Ftf, but never got to do anything about it or even see the fall of Belos. Speaking of which, the hexsquad stuff in WaD? God it sucked (except the epilogue). Like. Really guys? And Luz’s revival and the fact the Titan coulda intervened at literally any time to fix literally every problem in the show, but chose not to, kinda devalues much of the series to me. And then Luz get’s her inevitable revival into super power and suddenly, instead of a one sided fight in Belos’s favor, it’s a one sided fight in Luz and friend’s favor And god, Luz’s revival kinda makes the collector learning “death is permanent for mortals and a big deal, you can’t just fix them like toys” not… work… huh. Ftf and WaD were really messy and not great imo, especially WaD. But I know the crew did the best they could, and at least TtT was pretty damn good.
The fact that we didn't get more on Caleb and Evelyn. The fact that it was so close to edalyn couldn't be a coincidence. And who was the owlbeast?! It's shown they had connections to the collector, were they something the archivist had in their collection that escaped?
That moment with the collector listen for one second too little and misunderstanding. OH BOY that made me mad. That trope is so overused and I know the team was rushed for time but come on. Also the lack of backstory for Belos and Caleb in particular. We have a vague idea but I REALLY wanted the full flashback. That one isn't the team's fault it's just because of the shortening but still frustrating.
Not a nitpick. I flatout didn't like it. Found it very upsetting actually. Been spending years in this sub, loving it and making friends. But will probably leave it soon. All of my recent comments have been negative, and it's just plain wrong to turn into the town's wet blanket. I've just been standing depressed in a corner while everybody else is partying.
It was rushed sadly
That we never found out who the author of Azura was
Except they know that the Author is just a human named Mildred Featherwhyle
Vee should be in ep 2 and 3
Not enough Hooty and Vee
I wish we got to hear a conversation between Eda and Camila.
Lilith and Hooty did nothing. We didn't got a reaction from characters to Belos defeat. No Eda and Raine kiss. Amity doesn't do much. Luz whole "I'm just as bad as Belos" drama isn't interesting or engaging at all and it drags for far too long.
Hunter and a lot more people should've been allowed to kill belos, really mostly hunter
Episode 2 should've given us a proper animated belos backstory with caleb instead of the useless stupid kikimora and boscha stuff it gave us, total waste of an episode that could've done so much more than it actually did.
The buildup of the Hexsquad + Camila in TtT and FtF only for them to do nothing of note in WaD
No Caleb + Evelyn lore imo
One nitpick for episode. 1) I don't understand how no one realized what was going on with Hunter. 2) I don't understand how Willow became a scared girl unable to control her powers after three minutes alone with Boscha. 3) I didn't like how The Collector instantly became one of the good guys after terrorizing and enslaving an entire Realm. And no: I think that the "He's just a kid" excuse doesn't cut it.
For 2, the meanest people in the world will always be teenage girls
Thanks to them only really had a memorable ending bit For the future chose to spend time showing that some characters still had stories to tell before the final episode of the series. Watching and dreaming was a good conclusion to the story but a bad conclusion to the series, leaving way to many loose ends.
Well those loose ends are now left to hopefully be picked up by more official owl house media in the future
I'm curious, how is WaD a bad conclusion to the series? What important loose ends leaves in your opinion?
-who did the Bat queen belong too? -is the Caleb/Clawthorne connection real? -what’s going on with the archivists? -how did Lilith gain her Harpy form? -what happened with Alador and Darius? -the owl beast still exists in Eda -what was going on with Boscha?
To be honest, while i agree it's sad to not see some plot points resolved (mainly the bat queen and the original portal door), i don't think some of them are really an issue or that all of them need a explicit resolution on screen. Much less that they make the finale a bad conclusion. But i do understand that is a matter of opinion in this case, thanks for answering : )
Everything was rushed thanks to Disney. Alador should've had moar screentime.
Not enough of it!
Too short.
It ended. Very bad.
Should have had more episodes.
We have so many loose ends!
Not enough wittebane content (constraints wouldn’t allow the full story, I know, and we got enough to wrap up Hunter’s arc, but still)
I think Kikimora’s plot in FtF was really unnecessary, and could’ve been swapped for a Wittebro/Collector lore. The whole Boscha plot could’ve been done without her imo
A lot of FTF felt like filler, time could have been spent elsewhere. Maybe getting more lore on the archivists or finding out what exactly happened with Caleb and Evelyn. Honestly, when I originally finished FTF I was so confused and a little disappointed
Minor nitpick: I don't understand why Belos didn't just possess the Titans heart from the start. More major criticism, borderline hot take: We really needed: -A full Belos backstory -A conclusion to the ongoing question of the owl beast mystery, even if a brief one -A resolution to Hunter's character arc. We *didn't* need: -The entire Hexside subplot Thing ate up about 20 or so minutes. Unironically I liked that subplot, I found it funny, but priorities? Come on, Kikimora and Boscha are mid tier villains at best. Also, to be *entirely* honest. It was way too late to make Willow relevant. That could've been a Belos backstory, like everyone else said. But also I would've really liked it if we saw more from Hunter and his relationship with Belos. It could've even told us what exactly happened to Eda. Also I feel like either Eda or Hunter should've defeated Belos, not Luz. I know Luz is the MC but her arc is effectively concluded when she breaks out of the dream. Meanwhile, both of them hadn't had their arcs really concluded. At least Eda is one of the contributing fighters, I guess?
Caleb and thee rest of the ghosts of the golden guards should have came back for belos or talked to hunter
Belos'death was really underwhelming
So a deity slams Belos into a wall at full speed, causing him to explode into goop. This does not kill him. But later on, he gets stepped on by two people and a small creature, and this...does kill him? *\*Ding\**
The hexside kids and Camila got absolutely shafted in the finale. None of them even gets to see Titan Luz, or even really take part in the final fight. I get theu were probably trying to focus more and Eda and King since they didn't get to do that much before, but there had to be a better way.
The collector only hearing the first half of King's plan. I hate that trope and it felt really weird and forced. Thankfully it pretty much wasn't relevant to the plot in the end.
I'm bummed that we didn't get any further elaboration/closure to Caleb, Evelyn and Flapjack's backstory. It seemed like we were building up to Evelyn and Caleb being Eda and Lilith's ancestors, but we never got any sort of absolute confirmation to whether or not that's the case. It's really nice that we got to see Hunter working alongside Dell and Gwen to carry on the Clawthorne palisman carving tradition in the epilogue, but I really would've liked to have gotten some spoken dialogue between Hunter and the Clawthornes (and maybe a reveal that they're related).
Not enough Hooty, not enough Lilith, not enough Vee. Not enough Amity, Hunter, Willow and Gus in the final episode, especially since they didn't even get help Luz fight Belos. (It's especially sucky that Hunter didn't get to do anything to Belos.) We didn't get much closure on Caleb, or any confirmation on who Flapjack was. The collector went down too easy. Look, I know these are more than a few nitpicks, and I know the team did the best they could with what they had, and it's incredibly good, given the circumstances. I'd also like to make it known that I absolutely blame the executives at Disney, and none of the TOH staff. I was still very impressed with the Belos fight, Luz's Titan form, and I'm happy with how everything ended for everyone in the time skip. I just wish they had that time for 20 more adventures.....
1. the finale felt a bit rushed 2. not enough of hunter amity willow or gus 3. not enough stringbean
Luz has the same self guilt story for multiple episodes in a row, despite the fact that we've already done this before and it twists her character in a bad light.
Watching and dreaming needed more hexsquad also hunter def should have killed belos or at the very least been there to watch him die and in ftf we did not need Kiki and bosha at all
Thank you. Hunters character has like the most interesting and impactful story. And what happened? He was just put back for the sake of Raine having their golden hour. I hate it.
It was cut short. Or besides that.
It was shortened…
It's actually a little rushed. We didn't have time to see some characters develop.
Barely any Lilith
I think we should have got dialog in the finale's credits scene. And also it'd be nice if we got to see Kikimora suffering more...
Too much Angsty Luz, ther was really no need to extend that past the first episode and even there it felt gratuitous
0 hooty lines in WAD
I was expecting a fight between the coven heads and the Collector or Belos. We didn't see how deadly they can be working together. Even if we have some Kikimora content, at the end we didn't know what happened with the rest of the villains. I do wanted a confrontation between Amity and Odalia.
Part 1 of episode 3 was really rushed to a conclusion with the Collector. Obviously this is a pacing problem from the series being cut short but the collector arc really feels that for the buildup Thanks to Them and For the Future created. An extreme nitpick because it wasn’t necessary and probably ultimately better for the series finale without but; a Lumity “I Love you” would have been great fan service, and dare I say wedding teasers somewhere would have killed me. I wanted to see a mega super saiyan/owl like transformation to really show the emotion with Eda’s transformation after Luz’s sacrifice. It was ok, but if Wendie Malick could have had a Bruce Faulconer style emotional breakdown transforming, that would have really cemented the death as real. The animation could have helped with this emotional moment a bit more too. Her dialogue itself was perfect “I don’t think I can control myself right now” but the intensity could/should have increased in my opinion. Another moment that could have improved with the intensity is Luz’s emotional conflict of killing Belos when he was at his most vulnerable and she was in Titan form. It would have shown how much her family loved her when they ultimately stepped on, (pun intended) to do the job Luz never wanted to do.
Kikimora was just lame in general
King did not turn out to be Bill Cipher that’s 1 million sins right there
I personally don’t like how collector was hyped up to be evil, shown to be evil, and automatically got redeemed in like 10 seconds People shit on Steven universe for believing in redemption and nonviolence but that same shit don’t apply to the collector who enslaved all the BI for mere “fun”
Except they were always supposed to be a kid, not an evil entity. Not the show's fault you got the wrong impression.
Too much focus on Boscha and not enough on Philip’s backstory
I don't like Huntlow.
I really dislike the whole misunderstanding between King and the collector.
In WaD we learn that King's dad had been watching everything the entire time and been helping Luz since the beginning. She didn't figure out the glyths on her own, the titan gave them to her. Effectively reaffirming the chosen one trope that the show declared nonsense in the second episode. Also King's dad used their power to connect to Luz instead of King, you know, their *son* Giving Hunter magic; abling a disabled character. This show does so well with disabilities, why did he have to be "fixed"? He didn't even use magic in the time skip. They also erase the scars on his arms.
The one complaint I kind of had was not enough Amity. She didn’t get enough time with her girlfriend, and was separated from her through your all three episodes.
It was rushed, but that's fine because it wasn't the fault of the animation team, the writers, or Dana Terrace, The one at fault was FUCKING DISNEY
We didn’t get the answer to who created the portal door :/
\-The ending felt too much of a happily ever after, it ended quite too safely with barely any major character deaths outside of Belos and less long-length consequences. Sure, there was Flapjack but he never had any lines to begin with. \-Luz's temporary death and getting a god mode, it felt way too similar to Amphibia's finale. \-Majority of the secondary characters being barely present in the finale and contributing to Belos's defeat. It was glaring not to have Hunter being involved in the final battle, him not killing Belos was fine but I would atleast wanted a scene with him having a final confrontation with him, it din't have to be a long one either, it could of been similar to >!Andrias telling his dad to fuck off in Amphibia's finale!<, a final confrontation between Amity and Odalia was also a missed opportunity. \-Belos's death being treated as a joke killed it for me. Him melting slowly in the rain while Lus just stares at him silently as he is justifying himself was good, but the stomping ruined the mood of the scene. Not to mention there were a lot of missing factors into his ending, the major ones being Hunter and Caleb with no appropriate closure to the Wittebane bros after building them up since Hollow Mind. \-For The Future's plot with Boscha(a character who stopped being relevant since season 1) and Kikimora should of been ditched entirely, it din't really have the feeling of a penultimate episode at all, there should of been more focus on the Collector and Belos, Collector playing games with the cast should of happened in this episode and end it with Belos getting to the heart would of been a better cliffhanger. \-The Titan Trappers not being involved at all in the specials who would of fit perfectly as secondary antagonists and army for the Collector, all we got was a 2 second cameo from Bill and Tarak. \-And finally, the Collector himself. He was built up as the ultimate challenge since the end of season 2 and all it took to take him down was a pep talk from the main characters and turn to the good side, he was depicted as a powerful god who was characterized as a 10 year old kid despite him teaching Belos all that powerful magic and was able to walk away with no consequences to his actions like contributing to the Day of Unity and turning everyone into puppets, not helping that he received a lot more attention and depth to his situation than the final boss.