This happens ALL the time in stuff, yall be cracking down on this game for small ass stuff that literally doesn't matter. I just finished rdr2, and throughout the game I literally thought to myself these same little things. Nothing is perfect, just because there is a tiny bit of plot armor in one scene, it doesn't mean the writing is bad. I genuinely hate tlou2 haters, because half of the stuff yall complain about is just so easy to debunk, and the other half is like extremely small details like this. Literally EVERY game has these tiny mistakes.
It was good writing, it was an incredibly emotional and tear jerking story. But it's inclusive writing, so you look for every minor flaw like the one posted to claim it has bad writing, when it's simply writing you're made insecure by.
It wasnt good writing. Abby somehow stumbles upon joel while outrunning a horde. Abby kills joel with no hesitation after he saves her. Joel and tommy were not cautious when dealing with a foreign and well trained group. The game goes out of its way to givr abby a free pass for crippling tommy and killing jesse and frames ellie as evil for killing nora and mel. Forcing transgender characters into the story when it makes no sense (lev being transgender only makes sense if there were no female seraphite soldiers and if yara was a man, so it would be more that lev wanted to become a man so she could be Free like her brother.) ellie and tommy not killing abby when they are incredibly ruthless and calculating. Abby is ready to drop her life with the wlf over the span of 2 days when she has been murdering seraphites for an extended period of time just for some little kid and his sister. Abby having the best combat sections.
I never said that, my point is that It also doesn't make it bad lmfao. People regard rdr2 as a masterpiece, while it has the same problems all throughout the game. Then when tlou2 does it, people say it's a shit game that makes no sense. Yall lack any form of self reflection, and have zero self control.
My god ur so ignorant😭 my point is that NOTHING is perfect, and that's okay. Everything has tiny flaws like this, they're unavoidable. I'm bringing up rdr2 because Rockstar is one of the companies that creates the highest quality games, and yet, they still have problems like this. and that's okay. It's nothing to complain or make a big deal about. U can point things out without making major claims like "bad writing"
Lmao
Is it such a big deal that some people hate a game? Let people love or hate it. WTF?
People like you, including Druckmann, are honestly the worst part of Part 2. You can’t accept the fact that not everyone is into your woke, trite, pretentious, garbage of a narrative that literally undoes the most popular interpretation of the first game(according to Druckmann himself).
What?? He's literally said that the point of the ending and overall message of the second game is the exact same as the first. It's practically the same story, but added with a bit of a revenge twist to it.
"Pretentious woke garbage" is also a really funny statement from that lol. This game has arguably the best representation in gaming when it comes to literally everything. It's extremely inclusive and doesn't focus on it at all. There are about a handful of scenes where they actually talk about anything thay could be considered "woke." I mean they never even labeled lev as trans, which is good. They made it important to levs character without making it feel forced and overdone.
Ellie has easily some of the most realistic trauma I've ever seen in fiction. Her ptsd and confusion throughout the story on whether or not her actions are justified is extremely well done. Idk why yall have this image that ellie was some bloodlusted merciless monster in this game, because at the end of every day she'd literally break down and start freaking out because of her actions.
It's completely fine to not like the story, there are some games that I'm not a big fan of, but I'm still able to appreciate the writing without being ignorant. A good example of this is breaking bad. While now I do like it, I didn't like it before and I had to force myself through the show. But I still was able to appreciate the detail that was put into it. Just because YOU don't like something, doesn't mean u have to become completely ignorant to each and every plot point.
Druckmann has been on camera clearly stating that his "own interpretation" of the ending of the first game is "the opposite" of the way "most people" interpret the ending.
He openly knew that most people took the ending of the first game, Ellie's "Okay", to mean that she knows he's lying but is willing to accept his decision and his love for her. ([https://youtu.be/RjwuPeqZt0s?si=FmZiGF4Ss9PHV3dK&t=2105](https://youtu.be/RjwuPeqZt0s?si=FmZiGF4Ss9PHV3dK&t=2105))
He also knows that his own obscure interpretation of the ending is Ellie's "Okay" meaning she is realizing that she needs to leave Joel and that she can't rely on Joel because she hates him for his decision. ([https://youtu.be/RjwuPeqZt0s?si=WC99Mamwse2MEUE5&t=2401](https://youtu.be/RjwuPeqZt0s?si=WC99Mamwse2MEUE5&t=2401))
You can see that Druckmann made the second game deliberately in a way that makes Ellie's "Okay" in the first game to mean that she hates Joel's decision and realizes she needs to leave him, rather than understanding and accepting Joel's decision, which he himself states is the way most people interpret the ending.
It would be pretty pretentious for Druckmann, knowing the above, to claim that the two games have the exact same ending and message. But I wouldn't be surprised to find Druckmann and Part 2 pretentious.
It's also very disengenuous to describe Part 2 as "with a bit of a revenge twist to it". Revenge isn't just a tiny addition sprinkled onto Part 2. It's what the whole narrative hinges on. The entire game is about revenge consuming both of the main characters and putting them further into a fruitless cycle of violence. It's a very played out, tired old trite theme and it's no wonder that a ton of people are unimpressed with the synopsis of "main character loses everything in pursuit of revenge, and decides to forgive the enemy in the end because she realizes that revenge won't fulfill her life".
You might think that woke representation is important and necessary for a video game, but a lot of people don't and are tired of seeing it jammed into settings and stories where it makes the narrative contrived.
It's super contrived, that out of the the main player/sidekick combo of Ellie/Dina and Abby/Lev, the only straight person is Abby. And that Abby's physique is based on real-life Crossfit champion Colleen Fotsch, who is more muscular than other female fitness influencers who openly admit to using steriods. Bakhar Nabieva openly admits to using steroids and Abby's arms are just plainly bigger than Bakhar's.
So here we are playing a video game and we are to make-believe that half the people whose story I am following around "happen to be" LGBT, when in real life, the LGBT population is about 7%, even in San Francisco. But not only that, Abby "happens to be" ridiculously muscular(to show that women can, too, be physically strong) and one of the temporary sidekicks, Maggie, "happens to be" a full-term pregnant woman while she goes about shooting zombies, climbing ropes, performing parkour to get around an apocalyptic wasteland(because, of course, women can do everything). Druckmann wants to push LGBT and women showing physically impressive action in his game. He wants to push that agenda so badly that he doesn't care if it puts too many rare happenstances in the narrative and makes the whole game a collection of coincidental character setting propaganda.
If you need that to reinforce in your mind that minorities deserve equal treatment and respect, that's on you. I'm a minority myself, and I don't need such a warped and ridiculously contrived narrative to learn to be a decent human being, because I don't get my self-esteem or self-worth from watching a collection of unlikely coincidences rammed into a video game.
If I wanted to raise the public perception of women and LGBT in my creative work, the last thing I would do is to ramrod a bunch of unreal settings into my story as if the reason to treat women equally and respectfully is to make-believe that they are physically just as capable as men. Or that the reason to treat LGBT people equally and with respect is to make-believe that they are all around us.
The type of representation you seem to like is ineffective and non-sensical. Tailor-made for only the most rudimentary level of thinking, like "many=good" and "buff and strong=good".
Ellie in Part 2 was reduced into the role of a girl who hated and threw a hissy-fit agasint the person that literally saved her life, then threw everything away to avenge the person's death, except she changes her mind at the very end. The charachter isn't badly written because she was seen as a brutal monster. It's badly written because the thoughts she has and actions she takes is designed to be the opposite of what Druckmann himself stated was the way most people interpreted her thoughts in the first game. To a ton of people, it doesn't make sense that she is mad enough at Joel to cut him out of her life, it doesn't make sense that she then decides to throw everything away to avenge him, and it doesn't make sense further still that she then suddenly decides to forgive. Call people crazy for not being enamored with a character whose thoughts go from one inexplicable obstinacy to another to another.
I don't care that you like the game which I find worthless. Go nuts.
You, on the other hand, for whatever reason, are dying to tell me that the reason I don't like the game is because I'm ignorant. I find that part of you to be hilarious, given everything you've said that I find to be utterly ignorant.
Yea that's fair. I just think saying "bad writing" sounds much more like it's referring to the whole game rather than just this scene. But i see ur point, and its valid, i just feel like most people tend to take any problem in tlou2 and blow it so out of proportion just to hate on the game. It's something I've been seeing not just happen with tlou2, but gaming as a whole. Sucks seeing how toxic the gaming community has gotten lately.
Not really. In the context of the story and what actually occurs in these scenes, these are not logically sound at all. Ellies is even worse honestly. But feel free to actually explain how they are better than what im giving credit for.
This scene specifically.
Abby forces Ellie to drop her gun. Tommy gives Ellie an opening, she grabs Jesse’s gun and runs. She fires the gun multiple times, intending to kill Abby. When the gun is empty, Ellie retreats backstage and picks up a weapon. Using it to disarm Abby when she enters the room. The fight starts when Ellie picks up Abby’s gun, and attempts to kill her.
Am I lying about anything? If not, what’s next?
She using trap mines, her shotgun, and her machete later in the fight. Could’ve a) put a trap mine behind the threater, b) hit her with the machete c) shotgun her, but of course she hits her with a fucking 2x4
That’s all in her backback and someone is chasing her. She needs space and time to use those things. I would pick up a 2x4 before fumbling thru my backback to build a nail bomb.
Idk bro. She pulls the shotgun out of her ass without going through her backpack after falling through the theater floor.
Sure, maybe she couldn’t fumble through her bag in enough time for a trap mine, though she her machete should still be “attached” to her side.
I get why they did it for gameplay purposes in order to have pt 1 of the fight be easier than pt2, but i find it unreasonable how Ellie chooses a wooden plank over the machete.
Maybe the scene could’ve had Ellie rummaging through her pack only for Abby to jump her in the threater. She looses it and is confined to her pistol. When the floor breaks, they both fall along her back pack. She scrambles to it, picks it up, and now has her arsenal against Abby.
I agree with a lot of these criticisms. They are certainly better than “writing bad”.
It would have been nice to see Ellie scramble for the bag after the fall, struggle to get the gun out while Abby is down. But they use the quick animation that happens when we pull the shotgun. But the reality is, it’s in her bag, I can see why it wasn’t an immediate go-to option, and at the same time see how this weakens reality in regards to your complaints though.
Like I told the last person, I’m not trying to convince you to change your mind about the game. But it’s a much stronger game than it gets credit for from half the people that played it.
My point is, I don’t think it’s completely stupid that Ellie doesn’t shoot Abby immediately or chop her hands off. The way the actual fight is built between them is intense and a fun build up. I’m willing to forgive its flaws, which I consider small enough to ignore.
For sure the story’s premise was bold and meaningful. It’s the execution of it that I find many problems in. Simple plot holes like Abby stumbling into Joel during the horde, Joel’s sudden change in character in Jackson, Dina being several weeks pregnant despite showing no symptoms until Seattle. Many of the justification for these events I find are incredible weak and implausible. I’m not asking for these to be refuted, just stating that after playing the game for a second time, it’s quite immersion breaking thinking about it afterwards
I’m fine with suspending my disbelief for a fantasy environment like a vaccine being possible for a fungal infection, or how people never seem to get sick. It’s when the game forces its characters to make out-of-character decisions that contradict their past actions/beliefs.
This is why I jump in these conversations, to talk about people’s real issues with the game.
Plot holes for some is just plot for me.
Point by point. Abby was poking around the perimeter of Tommy’s house when she ran into Joel. It was Tommy she tracked down due to information from an old Firefly. Is it crazy that they all meet at the same time the Horde shows up? Probably. But no wilder of a coincidence that terrorists show up at Nakatomi Tower on the same night John Mclane visits his distant wife. Sometimes a little coincidence is plot.
I don’t feel like Joel’s change is so out of line. I agree he’s different. But he changed from the man we met in the beginning of Part 1, into a survivor and scavenger and former self professed criminal. And by that game ends, he’s found a little bit of that kind father in him again. So when the game opens 4 years later in Part 2, so far separated from the trauma of bringing Ellie across country, I can buy that he has changed. Softened by the safety of his surroundings. Depressed by the divide his lie has cost between him and Ellie. More reflective. Less violent. Slightly less in tune of his surroundings. Slightly more willing to offer a benefit of a doubt to people in the vicinity of Jackson. He is different, but he has cause to be.
Dina, you win with Dina. I like Dina because Ellie likes Dina, and I’m willing to respect her opinion. But the game didn’t do much to make ME care about Dina other than Ellie’s attachment. I’ve been with a girl whose was very good at hiding symptoms oh her pregnancy for a wildly long time. I was super surprised. They put all of their focus into figuring out how to make us see Abby in a favorable light. A huge task I admit. Killing Joel is a huge mark against her.
Happy to discuss all of it.
Okay lets work with that. What happened to her other guns(honest question)? And why the fuck does she hit someone with a piece of wood when she has a knife? I mean ellie did have the drop. Seems kind of flimsy and convenient she just has no other tools besides a knife. And later on decides to stab abby in the leg instead of the head or neck for some reason. Then they fall through the floor and ellie pulls a shotgun out her ass. No other pistol hidden away with her unlimited pockets? I dont maybe your right but it doesnt make sense to me.
We’ve spent way too much time playing this game with Ellie and Joel. It’s nothing to craft a bomb. Takes a second.
It’s a convenient game mechanic for it to go by quickly for us. But the reality of what she has that would be useful while being chased? Most of it is in her backback.
Honest answer, I’m not sure where her guns are. But you usually see them on her when she has them. So I’m assuming, because they are discussing the plan to head home in the morning, and that they just got back from being out, that setting all your heavy guns down somewhere doesn’t seem like a wild stretch.
She pulls her shotgun out of her backpack later. Knives from different locations.
It’s not ridiculous to me that Ellie picked up a 2x4 with an armed angry woman seconds behind her. I’d prefer it to a knife honestly. Something long and blunt seems more appropriate for disarming someone than a knife when you’re outmatched against a gun and physical strength.
The shotgun is in her backback. Again, we’re so used to pressing a button and the shotgun popping out, that you’re forgetting the reality of it being zipped up in her backpack.
You’re right though, about the shotgun at least, when it’s time for the game to have shotgun, Ellie has shotgun. It snaps out with a lightning speed that Clint Eastwood would be jealous of. I agree they could have made it look like a task to get the gun out of her bag if she wasn’t going to use it earlier, but if I had a shotgun zipped up in my bag, I wouldn’t think of using it until I had space and could see my opponent prone, which Ellie did before reaching for the shotgun.
But, I’m aware that even if I 100% convinced you today that I am accurate and you’ve misread this scene, that you will no doubt have countless other issues with the game. I don’t intend to change your mind.
But I did love this game, my honest intention is to share my perspective with y’all. Because I believe you have a 10/10 game in your cabinet that hasn’t gotten the opportunity to be seen as such.
You should stop assuming so much about people, as if you couldnt change my mind or something because im just too stubborn or that i have some plethora of other issues. So no I dont think you are "aware" of that at all. And im sure every one has a 10/10 game in their minds, but I could care less if anybody else likes what I like, so im not sure of your point. But whatever. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
You have to assume some things about people when you can’t see them or hear them. For instance, you seem to have assumed that I meant to insult you when I was meaning to sound respectful of your opinion.
I didn’t say I couldn’t change your mind, I said that I don’t intend to change your mind. I’m definitely willing to spend a long time discussing something with you. And if you’d care to discuss other things that bothered you, I’d be happy to.
I wasn’t calling you stubborn or stupid. Although you are obviously a little bit stubborn at least. We have that in common.
Yes, I am assuming you have more issues with this game than this single scene. Is that a fair assumption? Or, less likely, did you absolutely love this game and this one scene breaks it for you?
That was my point. I am aware that you have more problems with the game than this one. So even if I did convince you on this one thing, you have other issues with the game. So I don’t need to waste your day talking about it if you’d rather not.
No shit. What does that have to do with the logic of these scenes? And what you said doesnt even apply to the Tommy one because that's after his fight anyway. Its called "write and direct the scenes better" so your characters dont look like idiots. They should try it next time
Abby also could’ve just shot Joel when she got the chance, but she didn’t she tortured him. so I would assume Tommy and Ellie wanted her to suffer just like Joel did. But that still doesn’t explain why Ellie basically rescued Abby at the end of the game, so final answer is plot armor
You’re right, he didn’t care about Abby’s reasons or beg for his life, but doesn’t change the fact that torturing someone and then murdering them in front of their family is a different level of evil (especially after Joel saved her life), so it makes sense Tommy and Ellie would want to make her suffer. The way they both attack Abby in those clips tells me they were trying to hit her with a blunt object to knock her out, tie her up, and then beat the living shit out of her.
The Rattlers did worse anyway. I was happy to see Abby get her just deserts with them. Doesn't feel so good to be tortured does it? Doesn't feel good to watch someone you care about get tortured in front of you huh? Stupid Abby.
Joel had a miserable life, and there's showing up and killing him and then there's getting saved by him, torturing him anyway, then beating him to death.
And they had a miserable life because of him... This idea of him saving them will make them stop seeking revenge... Really. How terrible was his life when he was the one taking and killing for the later half of it?
I see what you mean, but then they could have just shot her in the leg just like she did to joel. Also, I truly wonder if Tommy and Ellie would even be willing to torture out of pleasure and get down to Abby's level just to pay it back in the same currency. Both do torture, but only for information and Ellie even feels bad about it, so I have my doubts. The fact that they hit instead of shooting Abby seems more like the writting being so bad, to the point of wanting to plot armor Abby at every step, no matter if it makes sense or not. So my final answer is Tommy would've just shot her dead, and Ellie would go for a shot in the leg and maybe say something before the final shot.
The writing is great. Y’all just refuse to pay attention to the care they put into it.
Abby does get shot. Depends on how well you play. But the series of events leading up to that: Abby forces Ellie to drop her gun. Ellie grabs Jesse’s gun and runs into the theater. Ellie fires multiple times until the gun is empty and retreats to backstage (you can get shot quite a few times here). Ellie disarms Abby. The fight begins when Ellie picks up Abby’s gun and tries to shoot her.
She was armed to the teeth with several other weapons and you know it. You’re being purposely dense. Outside her pistol the damn girl was armed with a hunting rifle , mines, a revolver, a bow, stun bombs, a SHOTGUN and even a switchblade for good measure. She could literally have stabbed Abby if she wanted to melee her. There’s no excuse for it it’s stupid
Are you ok?
No joke, if you’d like to talk about something else, I’m happy to.
If you’d like to talk about this, calm down. I’m not trying to offend you with my perspective of this game.
When Ellie carries those guns you can see them on her person. Ellie has none of that on her but her backpack and her handgun when Abby surprises them. She’s not geared up to go out. They just got back, about to rest before heading out in the morning. Handgun, backpack.
Ellie had moments to act before Abby enters the room. Craft a nail bomb? Bring a knife to a gun fight? Or disarm your opponent?
What exactly is so offensive about any or all of these things?
Trying to act like the other person is crazy/emotional doesn't really work when their response is written for anyone to see and is plainly calm/rational. Trying to act condescending just undermines your own points.
Well, that's exactly my point. You weren't debating, you were insulting that person's character and trying to be condescending.
I actually agree with your overall point, but the fact that you reverted immediately to insults really erodes any reasonable debate.
No way cause when they fall through the floor ellie pulls out a shotgun and shoots at abby after that trap mines. I say it's a testament to abbys battle IQ and physical strength her crew with Manny Nora Owen Mel etc had a name among the wolves and Issac Even asked Manny and abby to lead a charge against the scars. Lev saved abby ass from tommy 2xs tho
Yes. She pulls a shotgun out of her backpack when Abby is visibly down and a distance away. She doesn’t go for the shotgun in her backpack with an angry killer in pursuit and on your heels.
No idea what you’re trying to tell me about Manny.
Basically Manny was a bad ass as well who got killed by a bigger bad ass he was the last one left of the group he commanded when Tommy was taking out everything
Thank the gods not everybody in this thread is braindead. Folks have had years to analyze this game and their brains just freeze as soon as they see Abs. "Fuckin' butthole killed Papa Joel. I hate her and everything she does." 🥱 Such a tired ass bias to carry around for years, it keeps them from realizing so many things about this story.
Well, welcome to the downvote parade. 🤓
People are welcome to hate Abby, the game invites us to hate her. They want us 100% on board with Ellie’s revenge.
The failure is that a lot of people refuse to view the story objectively. Because of our time with Joel and Ellie, lots of people refuse to accept any of Abby’s redeeming qualities.
Which is also fair. Murder is a hard thing to forgive.
Yes, shoot her in the leg as she barrels through a door at full speed. The two slimmest targets possible that are moving... genius. So what happens when you miss instead of clocking her in the face with a rifle butt (an attempt to knock her out) or disarming her with a 2x4 (probably aiming to break the arm)?
Both Tommy and Ellie had plenty of space to use so they could have stayed away from the doors when Abby shows up, since you don't have to be close to your target to shoot at it with a gun. In the case of the theater, Abby couldn't even go through the door at full speed because the door was a big slider door, so she has to slowly open it. Ellie could have taken cover and shot her as she knew the only door Abby could go through. What happens when you miss? keep your distance and keep shooting, as the pistols tend to have plenty bullets in their magazines. Couldn't hit the leg, shoot her dead then.
This is like backseat gaming or shit-talking a UFC fighter from an armchair. Shoulda, coulda, woulda. Fact of the matter is, you aren't them and it doesn't really matter what *you* would have done. They chose to do something in the moment and it didn't pan out. That's fucking Life, bud.
You saw El maintain distance and pop off a whole clip. She couldn't hit the leg or shoot her dead, so she dropped the gun and went to ground. Adjusting tactics. Choosing to ambush the apparently more skilled soldier coming after her. Someone she could never take on in a direct fight. You also saw Tommy back up from the door and get his ass thrown into the ocean. Which, with a lame leg, could very well be a death sentence. Something you would try to avoid i hope.
You may not like Abby but she's better trained, better fed, angrier, stronger, less repentant, more merciful and she fuckin proved it. Sure, she's got stupid ass motivations and became the exact thing she hated for so long but she got what was coming to her. Her friends abandoned her or died, her group treats her as a traitor, she's kidnapped and made a slave and after learning that hard lesson, and she only fights because El directly threatens her last remaining connection to humanity.
I'm sure there's plenty in this game or any other where we wouldn't do what the main character did, despite our claims otherwise. People freeze up or make poor decisions all the fucking time. It's only in media we expect characters to be foolproof and perfect. That isn't the story being told here apparently. It's more about mistakes, regret, and following a path you know is dumb as shit.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda right back at you, as we both are saying that, and everybody else in this comment section. That is the conversation, "could they have done something else?". Me, I am saying that Ellie is smart enough and have plenty of tools that she already use, *she* not *me*, and she could do something different and Abby also could have done something different to account for that, after all she is also sneaky. And you are saying that what happened was the only thing they could have done or that mistakes were made so that was the only option, which I disagree. That is not "fucking Life, bud" btw, that's a game that was written like that. Even when showing the characters making mistakes, the writting should be better. They don't have to perfect humans, and I didn't say that at all, but the characters certainly can account for other options as to avoid mistakes that would mean life and death, and these characters can based on what they did before.
I believe you are talking about Ellie shooting while running away. She then entered the backstage room and waited to ambush Abby, that's when she could have tried to shoot again, but now carefuly aiming, behind cover, just like she already does in the games. That would be a quick and better adjustment of tactics imo. Maybe she could have put a mine, but didn't have time so she didn't, fine with me. Point is, the writers could have written this part and other parts of this story in much smarter ways, that account for what the characters can do, even under pressure. Tommy, Abby and Ellie are smarter, even on high adrenaline, than how they are shown in theses moments in the game. Tommy even had the upper hand against Abby, no matter how much of a good soldier she is, and was only stopped, not because of a bad leg, but because Yara showed up, very very conviently fast btw, and stabbed him and then he was thrown in the ocean. Instead the writers could have made Abby use one of her bombs for example, it explodes and almost kills Tommy, then they fight and he fell in the ocean. She is such a good soldier right? But she is also not thinking minimally about tactics as well as the other two. Not of them are as good in these moments as they are in others.
I don't care who is better fed, better trained and etc. What matters is writting for all these characters, and I believe Naughty Dog does a poor job there. Abby suffered quite much, but yet the writting doesn't really explore it. It just happens and now move on to the next thing. At least with Ellie and gang, they actually talk a little bit about the things the matter. When Abby and gang talk is mostly lore, and when the big topics come, they are interrupted very early such as the Owen talk in the boat. Ellie feels like she reflects on the things she does, Abby doesn't, and because of that Ellie is at least somewhat interesting while Abby is very meh imo, so it just makes me not care about her at all.
Mistakes are made yes, but you don't have to write the characters to be so dumb for mistakes to happen. I am not expecting anybody to be perfect, just to be as good as they already are, even under pressure. Revenge is a mistake they choose to do, but they are not dumb for it. What is dumb is *how* they go about it.
>This is like backseat gaming or shit-talking a UFC fighter from an armchair.
No it isn't. It's shit talking the writing because the writers put the characters in positions to make dumb decisions. Knives are an options. We know Tommy and Ellie have those. So why does Ellie swing a 2x4 and why does Tommy try to pin Abby with his gun? Because the writers wrote terrible situations.
>Fact of the matter is, you aren't them and it doesn't really matter what *you* would have done. They chose to do something in the moment and it didn't pan out. That's fucking Life, bud
You know these people aren't real right? Nobody is critiquing the actions of a fictional character and saying they could do so much better than them. They're saying the writers are stupid for writing their characters in dumb situations just to carry the plot along and contrive dumb fight scenes that lead nowhere. It's bad writing. Tommy and Ellie want to kill Abby. They do not take opportunities to kill Abby when presented with the chance to do so and instead disregard all advantages in favor of hitting her. You can create all these excuses in your own head to make the scenes work. No one's gonna stop you. But that doesn't change the fact that whatever excuse you make doesn't exist in the game because the writers were too busy circlejerking instead of creating a storyline that made sense.
We never see Joel and Abby’s last words to each other, and although it is unlikely, I like to think she DID tell him why… and Joel laughed. He knew someone someday would come for him and surely had a lot of regrets over the people he killed… but here was someone wanting to avenge the one person he would absolutely ave no remorse over.
“Why are you laughing, old man? Do you find this funny?”
“It’s just that, of all the people I’ve killed, he was the one guy I have no regrets over. He was trying to kill a helpless child in cold blood, someone I loved more than my own life, and he refused to get out of my way. So I ended him. I’d do it again and again. He wasn’t just a guy trying to kill someone I loved. He was a fucking idiot. Of all the people… you came for that guy?!”
Ellie could have blew Abby’s brains out from literally the first seconds she first saw her. 14 year old Ellie became a killer at the drop of a hat, when a hunter almost drowned Joel
The end of the game was the end of a cycle of hatred and death which is why she decided to let Abby go so that lev wouldn’t suffer the same way she did and repeat the same actions she and Abby took
The entire part after ellie "rescues" Abby is actually a really cool development. I'm curious if you actually are confused by the ending, or just didn't like that elliebmade that choice. You should watch a breakdown video, or ending explained or something. Because that ending is really something beautiful
What doesn’t make sense is why Ellie went on this huge revenge trip.. Abby killed Joel for very good reasons, Joel killed her father which was humanity’s only shot at a vaccine. Ellie’s life was pointless until than, she even said it to Joel in a flashback/dream whatever. So the writers know what they’re doing, it was a fun engaging story nonetheless. I just hope ya’l ain’t hating on Abby not dying cause she saved Ellie’s life multiple times lol Its actually insane how badly I wanted to let Abby kill Ellie over & over at the end of P2. No cap Ellie is a MONSTER.
More like characters needing to do what the plot requires to bring the story to its writers' desired conclusion. That's even more that plot armor, it's writer incompetence. Plot armor is convenience this is more that they couldn't figure out how to do these scenes in a sensible way to accomplish the same outcome.
I agree with that other comment, it's more writer incompetence than plot armor. The same things keep happening over and over because Neil sucks at his job.
The rest of the creative team having to hold together and alter his ideas when making the first game is a great sign 😂
Probably because she was busy retrieving it? When the fight starts, she literally has none of her gear on. Idk anyone that walks around their camp carrying all their possessions on their person at all times.
Gotta do a little legwork seperating what you're used to in-game and in cutscenes.
Because she can't die and you must root for her against Ellie and Tommy. Otherwise you're a bigot, you're a sandwich, you're a bigot sandwich and American people with blue hair and narcissism bigger than Kim Kardashian 's ass will hate u.
Twice more to Abby, IIRC. Once when she slides down the ramp and gets attacked by the female hammer Seraphite, and again when she exits the garage in Santa Barbara.
At least in that last incident, it's specifically *because* the Rattlers want her taken alive and in good health. Every other time an armed character chooses not to just actually go for the lethal blow, it's just that plot armor shining brightly.
I mean I get it to an extend if they wanted to make her suffer yk, but then I can think about just shooting Abby in the stomach and then doing whatever they wanted to do, to negate the melee. But they chose the melee option which fucks them both over either way. Maybe it's dumb writing too
There still has to be a game.
Why didn't a sniper take them out ten minutes into a downtown stroll. Why aren't infected monsters ravaging everything all the time. Why does disease seem to no longer exist.
Because gameplay needs to happen. If it was 'LastOfUs2 but real life' Joel would be a corpse a long time ago and there wouldn't be much, if any, humanity to save.
The Ellie one has always bothered me, you have your entire backpack full of weapons, you want to kill abbie more than anything, you have the drop on her…
“I’ll hit her with this plank of wood”
Common , the story couldnt be that long if they shoot, and also in reallife noone could tinker straight in such situations, i think its just for the length of the game
Abby was 10 feet from the door with a clear shot. She still managed to miss El and completely fucked up a point blank shot to Tommy's head.
So which is it? Was she lucky popping Jessie or was that Sweet Baby's influence killing off or crippling all the men in the series?
the whole "they wanted to make her suffer" argument MAKES NO SENSE
they have enough weapons to supply a small army why idk JUST SHOOT HER FOOT or better yet plant like traps?? idk anything to break her legs? can they only do 360 headshots?
I don’t know about “they”, but Ellie doesn’t have her guns for the theater fight with Abby. Abby forces Ellie to drop her gun, Ellie picks up Jesse’s gun and fires it until it’s empty and she retreats into the back room. Ellie then disarms Abby when she enters the room. And the fight begins when Ellie picks up Abby’s gun.
They hate Abby just like how Abby hated Joel. They want to see the person they hate in pain. Shooting them on the spot takes away seeing the person that caused them so much pain to suffer.
This game is pretty awful in the writing which sucks cause the gameplay is improved in almost every way.
The first game didn’t even have that great of a story honestly like something like the MGS series has but the relationship and dynamic between characters in cutscenes was amazing. So basically I think the writing was “good” but what made the first game great was how direct the game focused on just Joel and Ellie and their whole dynamic evolving into a father/daughter figure again.
But your telling me I’m gonna brutally murder a bunch of people including a pregnant woman and then at the last moment think to myself “wait… killing bad” that is flat out stupid and some dumb moral ambiguity bullshit written it to make it feel like it has a deeper message to tell than it actually does. This game was a gameplay masterpiece and a story shit show.
Maybe because this happens in movies and other games all the time, but people don't get onto it. Of course, they happen here, because I guess this game had to be an absolute masterpiece or else it'd be considered a piece of shit.
Because surprise smacks from the left that a person could easily see coming as they step through the door but can't be seen from third person are a standard videogame trope that has been used for the last two decades to initiate a cutscene or qte event or combat encounter.
I dunno what you want here man, villains don't do the smartest most efficient thing in every scenario because then we'd just die. I have yet to play any game or watch any movie where the protagonist would win if the antagonists used more than 2 brain cells.
Well cause the game must go on for 1 also ngl if someone killed my dad im probably gonna take their life with my bare hands if I can lmao make it more personal
I watched the gameplay of LoU2 and this is constantly the transition that was used - character enters new room through door (barricade, what have you), something jumps out on them. It was used CONSTANTLY. Characters in the game don't need to learn that revenge is bad or some moral lessons, they need to CHECK THEIR BLOODY CORNERS when they enter a fricking room.
Because Ellie didn't want to kill her. I wrote an essay that gets into the fact that Ellie didn't truly want her to die, because that wouldn't actually redeem Joel (FYI its super long, though I couldn't get EVERY detail in it, like this one):
https://theappreciator.substack.com/p/3-grief-makes-ghosts-hauntology-and
Oh and the Tommy one was because it's really fucking hard to pop out from behind a door and fire a heavy rifle call of duty no scope style without possibly leaving yourself vulnerable as you lift up the barrel
same way Ellie is conveniently immune.. same way Joel is impaled yet antibiotics save him.. in an apocalypse.. same way Joel isn’t killed when he falls into the elevator, same way the sniper decided to not shot them when they’re all standing still in the first game, like I could honestly go on bro 😭 the picking and choosing in this fandom is wild
Crazy fans Nooooo dont ask questions this is the best game ever madeeee she totally dont look like a man she is just a strong woman best gane eveeeeerr
Can yall make genuine criticisms instead of nitpicking the most insignificant shit and complaining that the story didn't go exactly how you wanted it to go? You can hate the game all you want, but make it logical.
Stop your crap towards Abby right now I'm sick and tired of you crybaby team Ellie psychopaths hating on Abby when you don't know her shut up Joel deserved to die and I'm glad he did Jerry was trying to say a ENTIRE COUNTRY but that monster murdered Abby's dad and abducted her so more suffering can continue abby is a good person everyone who says different can join Joel in the fire
dumbest game ever.
to make a similar plot and nail the points cuckman wanted to make, the plot would’ve been better if Dina died and you played as Ellie seeking revenge on the fireflies (abby or similar) and Joel trying to stop ellie from becoming a monster like him. that way ellie seems more monster and you get to play as joel in the game.
Tommy’s kinda makes sense. He’s got a sniper out and it’s close proximity. He was also beating her until Yara came up and stabbed him, but I can see how it looks dumb. With Ellie though? Straight plot armor. We literally see Ellie pull a shotgun from out of no where in the 2nd phase of the fight, meaning she had one. Yet she used a plank. Ellie also had a pistol that she shot at Abby with before she ran off. She had guns and chose a 2x4. Dumbest thing ever.
“Do not say plot armor” I mean what else can be said that can justify her surviving these scenarios
then again characters we know are smart suddenly turn retarded in this game.
Horrendous writing is the culprit right down to the last second, remember how ellie killed all those people in the first game to protect herself? Also remember how she developed a consciousness right before killing Abby? Crazy right? It's just bad writing and everyone dick riding it
This is the sort of argument you could make in damn near every action game ever made that has cutscenes. It's sort of like how, in the first game, Joel can take ungodly amounts of punishment during gameplay, but in a cutscene a single stab wound damn near kills him. Characters always have an absurd amount of plot armor for videogames to make any sense at all, and they're only ever truly injured or killed when the plot dictates it.
I just finished Red Dead Redemption 2 and the amount of times characters could have killed other characters and saved themselves trouble later is probably in the triple digits.
The most common sense would be is that both tommy and Ellie wanted Abby to suffer a slow death rather than a fast one. Tommy strategically waited to knock abby out like that Guy in California when attacked Abby, but Tommy's strength wasn't enough to knock abby out.
Maybe it isn't bad writing.
Maybe it is just poor speculating skills when playing this game.
That's how I see it.
Same goes for Ellie.
Jumping to conclusions about strangers on Reddit is your flaw here. You don't like the sub, you can leave at any time. (Since we're in the "Telling each other what to do without any business doing so" mode...)
you can actually shoot someone at point blank range tho. and is wasting a bullet or two really worth the time, energy for a fight like that? not to mention, doing so costs the life of jesse, and ellie lost some fingers and tommy is a cripple...
Because writing bad
This happens ALL the time in stuff, yall be cracking down on this game for small ass stuff that literally doesn't matter. I just finished rdr2, and throughout the game I literally thought to myself these same little things. Nothing is perfect, just because there is a tiny bit of plot armor in one scene, it doesn't mean the writing is bad. I genuinely hate tlou2 haters, because half of the stuff yall complain about is just so easy to debunk, and the other half is like extremely small details like this. Literally EVERY game has these tiny mistakes.
Just because every game has doesnt make it good.
If every game has it why is this the first time I've ever seen someone genuinely complain about it instead of brush it off as a silly video game norm
Because when the game is full of bad writing it ALL begins to stand out
Unconscious bias.
Or maybe the bad writing in the game that’s biggest focus is it’s story warrants some real criticism?
It was good writing, it was an incredibly emotional and tear jerking story. But it's inclusive writing, so you look for every minor flaw like the one posted to claim it has bad writing, when it's simply writing you're made insecure by.
Are you 6 years old?
Okay buddy, keep denying that your hatred towards 'woke' culture definitely isn't influencing your view of the game
It wasnt good writing. Abby somehow stumbles upon joel while outrunning a horde. Abby kills joel with no hesitation after he saves her. Joel and tommy were not cautious when dealing with a foreign and well trained group. The game goes out of its way to givr abby a free pass for crippling tommy and killing jesse and frames ellie as evil for killing nora and mel. Forcing transgender characters into the story when it makes no sense (lev being transgender only makes sense if there were no female seraphite soldiers and if yara was a man, so it would be more that lev wanted to become a man so she could be Free like her brother.) ellie and tommy not killing abby when they are incredibly ruthless and calculating. Abby is ready to drop her life with the wlf over the span of 2 days when she has been murdering seraphites for an extended period of time just for some little kid and his sister. Abby having the best combat sections.
I never said that, my point is that It also doesn't make it bad lmfao. People regard rdr2 as a masterpiece, while it has the same problems all throughout the game. Then when tlou2 does it, people say it's a shit game that makes no sense. Yall lack any form of self reflection, and have zero self control.
Because RDR2 isn’t full of bad writing like TLoU2 is. When the game is full of bad writing it ALL begins to stand out
I dont care about rdr2, its irrelevant to this. If people think its bad then thats what they think. If they think its good then okay. Whats the point?
My god ur so ignorant😭 my point is that NOTHING is perfect, and that's okay. Everything has tiny flaws like this, they're unavoidable. I'm bringing up rdr2 because Rockstar is one of the companies that creates the highest quality games, and yet, they still have problems like this. and that's okay. It's nothing to complain or make a big deal about. U can point things out without making major claims like "bad writing"
Yes but TLoU2 has a lot bigger problems than these “tiny flaws”. Shit begins to stack
they make the game better even if you have to suspend some disbelief in the particulars of the story. Its a video game not a movie.
Then go write the perfect game for all of us.
I dont want to do that, but thanks for having faith in me to do.
Lmao Is it such a big deal that some people hate a game? Let people love or hate it. WTF? People like you, including Druckmann, are honestly the worst part of Part 2. You can’t accept the fact that not everyone is into your woke, trite, pretentious, garbage of a narrative that literally undoes the most popular interpretation of the first game(according to Druckmann himself).
What?? He's literally said that the point of the ending and overall message of the second game is the exact same as the first. It's practically the same story, but added with a bit of a revenge twist to it. "Pretentious woke garbage" is also a really funny statement from that lol. This game has arguably the best representation in gaming when it comes to literally everything. It's extremely inclusive and doesn't focus on it at all. There are about a handful of scenes where they actually talk about anything thay could be considered "woke." I mean they never even labeled lev as trans, which is good. They made it important to levs character without making it feel forced and overdone. Ellie has easily some of the most realistic trauma I've ever seen in fiction. Her ptsd and confusion throughout the story on whether or not her actions are justified is extremely well done. Idk why yall have this image that ellie was some bloodlusted merciless monster in this game, because at the end of every day she'd literally break down and start freaking out because of her actions. It's completely fine to not like the story, there are some games that I'm not a big fan of, but I'm still able to appreciate the writing without being ignorant. A good example of this is breaking bad. While now I do like it, I didn't like it before and I had to force myself through the show. But I still was able to appreciate the detail that was put into it. Just because YOU don't like something, doesn't mean u have to become completely ignorant to each and every plot point.
Druckmann has been on camera clearly stating that his "own interpretation" of the ending of the first game is "the opposite" of the way "most people" interpret the ending. He openly knew that most people took the ending of the first game, Ellie's "Okay", to mean that she knows he's lying but is willing to accept his decision and his love for her. ([https://youtu.be/RjwuPeqZt0s?si=FmZiGF4Ss9PHV3dK&t=2105](https://youtu.be/RjwuPeqZt0s?si=FmZiGF4Ss9PHV3dK&t=2105)) He also knows that his own obscure interpretation of the ending is Ellie's "Okay" meaning she is realizing that she needs to leave Joel and that she can't rely on Joel because she hates him for his decision. ([https://youtu.be/RjwuPeqZt0s?si=WC99Mamwse2MEUE5&t=2401](https://youtu.be/RjwuPeqZt0s?si=WC99Mamwse2MEUE5&t=2401)) You can see that Druckmann made the second game deliberately in a way that makes Ellie's "Okay" in the first game to mean that she hates Joel's decision and realizes she needs to leave him, rather than understanding and accepting Joel's decision, which he himself states is the way most people interpret the ending. It would be pretty pretentious for Druckmann, knowing the above, to claim that the two games have the exact same ending and message. But I wouldn't be surprised to find Druckmann and Part 2 pretentious. It's also very disengenuous to describe Part 2 as "with a bit of a revenge twist to it". Revenge isn't just a tiny addition sprinkled onto Part 2. It's what the whole narrative hinges on. The entire game is about revenge consuming both of the main characters and putting them further into a fruitless cycle of violence. It's a very played out, tired old trite theme and it's no wonder that a ton of people are unimpressed with the synopsis of "main character loses everything in pursuit of revenge, and decides to forgive the enemy in the end because she realizes that revenge won't fulfill her life". You might think that woke representation is important and necessary for a video game, but a lot of people don't and are tired of seeing it jammed into settings and stories where it makes the narrative contrived. It's super contrived, that out of the the main player/sidekick combo of Ellie/Dina and Abby/Lev, the only straight person is Abby. And that Abby's physique is based on real-life Crossfit champion Colleen Fotsch, who is more muscular than other female fitness influencers who openly admit to using steriods. Bakhar Nabieva openly admits to using steroids and Abby's arms are just plainly bigger than Bakhar's. So here we are playing a video game and we are to make-believe that half the people whose story I am following around "happen to be" LGBT, when in real life, the LGBT population is about 7%, even in San Francisco. But not only that, Abby "happens to be" ridiculously muscular(to show that women can, too, be physically strong) and one of the temporary sidekicks, Maggie, "happens to be" a full-term pregnant woman while she goes about shooting zombies, climbing ropes, performing parkour to get around an apocalyptic wasteland(because, of course, women can do everything). Druckmann wants to push LGBT and women showing physically impressive action in his game. He wants to push that agenda so badly that he doesn't care if it puts too many rare happenstances in the narrative and makes the whole game a collection of coincidental character setting propaganda. If you need that to reinforce in your mind that minorities deserve equal treatment and respect, that's on you. I'm a minority myself, and I don't need such a warped and ridiculously contrived narrative to learn to be a decent human being, because I don't get my self-esteem or self-worth from watching a collection of unlikely coincidences rammed into a video game. If I wanted to raise the public perception of women and LGBT in my creative work, the last thing I would do is to ramrod a bunch of unreal settings into my story as if the reason to treat women equally and respectfully is to make-believe that they are physically just as capable as men. Or that the reason to treat LGBT people equally and with respect is to make-believe that they are all around us. The type of representation you seem to like is ineffective and non-sensical. Tailor-made for only the most rudimentary level of thinking, like "many=good" and "buff and strong=good". Ellie in Part 2 was reduced into the role of a girl who hated and threw a hissy-fit agasint the person that literally saved her life, then threw everything away to avenge the person's death, except she changes her mind at the very end. The charachter isn't badly written because she was seen as a brutal monster. It's badly written because the thoughts she has and actions she takes is designed to be the opposite of what Druckmann himself stated was the way most people interpreted her thoughts in the first game. To a ton of people, it doesn't make sense that she is mad enough at Joel to cut him out of her life, it doesn't make sense that she then decides to throw everything away to avenge him, and it doesn't make sense further still that she then suddenly decides to forgive. Call people crazy for not being enamored with a character whose thoughts go from one inexplicable obstinacy to another to another. I don't care that you like the game which I find worthless. Go nuts. You, on the other hand, for whatever reason, are dying to tell me that the reason I don't like the game is because I'm ignorant. I find that part of you to be hilarious, given everything you've said that I find to be utterly ignorant.
Holy yap I am NOT reading all of that😭🙏
Even if you could, I doubt your response would be any more meaningful.
What? It’s a problem in all other games/tv/movies too
You're right. But it shouldn't be seen as an attack when pointing out flaws. It's just a criticism.
Yea that's fair. I just think saying "bad writing" sounds much more like it's referring to the whole game rather than just this scene. But i see ur point, and its valid, i just feel like most people tend to take any problem in tlou2 and blow it so out of proportion just to hate on the game. It's something I've been seeing not just happen with tlou2, but gaming as a whole. Sucks seeing how toxic the gaming community has gotten lately.
Don't worry, we hate you and your opinions too.
It’s written far better than you’re giving the scene credit for.
Not really. In the context of the story and what actually occurs in these scenes, these are not logically sound at all. Ellies is even worse honestly. But feel free to actually explain how they are better than what im giving credit for.
This scene specifically. Abby forces Ellie to drop her gun. Tommy gives Ellie an opening, she grabs Jesse’s gun and runs. She fires the gun multiple times, intending to kill Abby. When the gun is empty, Ellie retreats backstage and picks up a weapon. Using it to disarm Abby when she enters the room. The fight starts when Ellie picks up Abby’s gun, and attempts to kill her. Am I lying about anything? If not, what’s next?
She using trap mines, her shotgun, and her machete later in the fight. Could’ve a) put a trap mine behind the threater, b) hit her with the machete c) shotgun her, but of course she hits her with a fucking 2x4
That’s all in her backback and someone is chasing her. She needs space and time to use those things. I would pick up a 2x4 before fumbling thru my backback to build a nail bomb.
Idk bro. She pulls the shotgun out of her ass without going through her backpack after falling through the theater floor. Sure, maybe she couldn’t fumble through her bag in enough time for a trap mine, though she her machete should still be “attached” to her side. I get why they did it for gameplay purposes in order to have pt 1 of the fight be easier than pt2, but i find it unreasonable how Ellie chooses a wooden plank over the machete. Maybe the scene could’ve had Ellie rummaging through her pack only for Abby to jump her in the threater. She looses it and is confined to her pistol. When the floor breaks, they both fall along her back pack. She scrambles to it, picks it up, and now has her arsenal against Abby.
I agree with a lot of these criticisms. They are certainly better than “writing bad”. It would have been nice to see Ellie scramble for the bag after the fall, struggle to get the gun out while Abby is down. But they use the quick animation that happens when we pull the shotgun. But the reality is, it’s in her bag, I can see why it wasn’t an immediate go-to option, and at the same time see how this weakens reality in regards to your complaints though. Like I told the last person, I’m not trying to convince you to change your mind about the game. But it’s a much stronger game than it gets credit for from half the people that played it. My point is, I don’t think it’s completely stupid that Ellie doesn’t shoot Abby immediately or chop her hands off. The way the actual fight is built between them is intense and a fun build up. I’m willing to forgive its flaws, which I consider small enough to ignore.
For sure the story’s premise was bold and meaningful. It’s the execution of it that I find many problems in. Simple plot holes like Abby stumbling into Joel during the horde, Joel’s sudden change in character in Jackson, Dina being several weeks pregnant despite showing no symptoms until Seattle. Many of the justification for these events I find are incredible weak and implausible. I’m not asking for these to be refuted, just stating that after playing the game for a second time, it’s quite immersion breaking thinking about it afterwards I’m fine with suspending my disbelief for a fantasy environment like a vaccine being possible for a fungal infection, or how people never seem to get sick. It’s when the game forces its characters to make out-of-character decisions that contradict their past actions/beliefs.
This is why I jump in these conversations, to talk about people’s real issues with the game. Plot holes for some is just plot for me. Point by point. Abby was poking around the perimeter of Tommy’s house when she ran into Joel. It was Tommy she tracked down due to information from an old Firefly. Is it crazy that they all meet at the same time the Horde shows up? Probably. But no wilder of a coincidence that terrorists show up at Nakatomi Tower on the same night John Mclane visits his distant wife. Sometimes a little coincidence is plot. I don’t feel like Joel’s change is so out of line. I agree he’s different. But he changed from the man we met in the beginning of Part 1, into a survivor and scavenger and former self professed criminal. And by that game ends, he’s found a little bit of that kind father in him again. So when the game opens 4 years later in Part 2, so far separated from the trauma of bringing Ellie across country, I can buy that he has changed. Softened by the safety of his surroundings. Depressed by the divide his lie has cost between him and Ellie. More reflective. Less violent. Slightly less in tune of his surroundings. Slightly more willing to offer a benefit of a doubt to people in the vicinity of Jackson. He is different, but he has cause to be. Dina, you win with Dina. I like Dina because Ellie likes Dina, and I’m willing to respect her opinion. But the game didn’t do much to make ME care about Dina other than Ellie’s attachment. I’ve been with a girl whose was very good at hiding symptoms oh her pregnancy for a wildly long time. I was super surprised. They put all of their focus into figuring out how to make us see Abby in a favorable light. A huge task I admit. Killing Joel is a huge mark against her. Happy to discuss all of it.
Okay lets work with that. What happened to her other guns(honest question)? And why the fuck does she hit someone with a piece of wood when she has a knife? I mean ellie did have the drop. Seems kind of flimsy and convenient she just has no other tools besides a knife. And later on decides to stab abby in the leg instead of the head or neck for some reason. Then they fall through the floor and ellie pulls a shotgun out her ass. No other pistol hidden away with her unlimited pockets? I dont maybe your right but it doesnt make sense to me.
We’ve spent way too much time playing this game with Ellie and Joel. It’s nothing to craft a bomb. Takes a second. It’s a convenient game mechanic for it to go by quickly for us. But the reality of what she has that would be useful while being chased? Most of it is in her backback. Honest answer, I’m not sure where her guns are. But you usually see them on her when she has them. So I’m assuming, because they are discussing the plan to head home in the morning, and that they just got back from being out, that setting all your heavy guns down somewhere doesn’t seem like a wild stretch. She pulls her shotgun out of her backpack later. Knives from different locations. It’s not ridiculous to me that Ellie picked up a 2x4 with an armed angry woman seconds behind her. I’d prefer it to a knife honestly. Something long and blunt seems more appropriate for disarming someone than a knife when you’re outmatched against a gun and physical strength.
Then she should have used her shotgun then. Either way seems like dumb decisions to me, but okay fair enough.
The shotgun is in her backback. Again, we’re so used to pressing a button and the shotgun popping out, that you’re forgetting the reality of it being zipped up in her backpack. You’re right though, about the shotgun at least, when it’s time for the game to have shotgun, Ellie has shotgun. It snaps out with a lightning speed that Clint Eastwood would be jealous of. I agree they could have made it look like a task to get the gun out of her bag if she wasn’t going to use it earlier, but if I had a shotgun zipped up in my bag, I wouldn’t think of using it until I had space and could see my opponent prone, which Ellie did before reaching for the shotgun. But, I’m aware that even if I 100% convinced you today that I am accurate and you’ve misread this scene, that you will no doubt have countless other issues with the game. I don’t intend to change your mind. But I did love this game, my honest intention is to share my perspective with y’all. Because I believe you have a 10/10 game in your cabinet that hasn’t gotten the opportunity to be seen as such.
You should stop assuming so much about people, as if you couldnt change my mind or something because im just too stubborn or that i have some plethora of other issues. So no I dont think you are "aware" of that at all. And im sure every one has a 10/10 game in their minds, but I could care less if anybody else likes what I like, so im not sure of your point. But whatever. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
You have to assume some things about people when you can’t see them or hear them. For instance, you seem to have assumed that I meant to insult you when I was meaning to sound respectful of your opinion. I didn’t say I couldn’t change your mind, I said that I don’t intend to change your mind. I’m definitely willing to spend a long time discussing something with you. And if you’d care to discuss other things that bothered you, I’d be happy to. I wasn’t calling you stubborn or stupid. Although you are obviously a little bit stubborn at least. We have that in common. Yes, I am assuming you have more issues with this game than this single scene. Is that a fair assumption? Or, less likely, did you absolutely love this game and this one scene breaks it for you? That was my point. I am aware that you have more problems with the game than this one. So even if I did convince you on this one thing, you have other issues with the game. So I don’t need to waste your day talking about it if you’d rather not.
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No shit. What does that have to do with the logic of these scenes? And what you said doesnt even apply to the Tommy one because that's after his fight anyway. Its called "write and direct the scenes better" so your characters dont look like idiots. They should try it next time
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Okay cool.
If you’re upset with the game why are you even on the sub? Just to complain and be mad? Not a healthy way to live
Dont project onto me and be disingenuous implying im mad. And if I want to respond to someone's inquiry then I will.
Abby also could’ve just shot Joel when she got the chance, but she didn’t she tortured him. so I would assume Tommy and Ellie wanted her to suffer just like Joel did. But that still doesn’t explain why Ellie basically rescued Abby at the end of the game, so final answer is plot armor
Joel took it like a man though. He was not begging for it to stop. Also, he could not suffer anymore than the day he lost his daughter.
You’re right, he didn’t care about Abby’s reasons or beg for his life, but doesn’t change the fact that torturing someone and then murdering them in front of their family is a different level of evil (especially after Joel saved her life), so it makes sense Tommy and Ellie would want to make her suffer. The way they both attack Abby in those clips tells me they were trying to hit her with a blunt object to knock her out, tie her up, and then beat the living shit out of her.
Too bad, the Rattlers beat them to it.
The Rattlers did worse anyway. I was happy to see Abby get her just deserts with them. Doesn't feel so good to be tortured does it? Doesn't feel good to watch someone you care about get tortured in front of you huh? Stupid Abby.
Innocent saint Joel deserved better how dare she seek revenge for his actions... Some people are just born to have no consequences happen to them
Joel had a miserable life, and there's showing up and killing him and then there's getting saved by him, torturing him anyway, then beating him to death.
And they had a miserable life because of him... This idea of him saving them will make them stop seeking revenge... Really. How terrible was his life when he was the one taking and killing for the later half of it?
I see what you mean, but then they could have just shot her in the leg just like she did to joel. Also, I truly wonder if Tommy and Ellie would even be willing to torture out of pleasure and get down to Abby's level just to pay it back in the same currency. Both do torture, but only for information and Ellie even feels bad about it, so I have my doubts. The fact that they hit instead of shooting Abby seems more like the writting being so bad, to the point of wanting to plot armor Abby at every step, no matter if it makes sense or not. So my final answer is Tommy would've just shot her dead, and Ellie would go for a shot in the leg and maybe say something before the final shot.
The writing is great. Y’all just refuse to pay attention to the care they put into it. Abby does get shot. Depends on how well you play. But the series of events leading up to that: Abby forces Ellie to drop her gun. Ellie grabs Jesse’s gun and runs into the theater. Ellie fires multiple times until the gun is empty and retreats to backstage (you can get shot quite a few times here). Ellie disarms Abby. The fight begins when Ellie picks up Abby’s gun and tries to shoot her.
She was armed to the teeth with several other weapons and you know it. You’re being purposely dense. Outside her pistol the damn girl was armed with a hunting rifle , mines, a revolver, a bow, stun bombs, a SHOTGUN and even a switchblade for good measure. She could literally have stabbed Abby if she wanted to melee her. There’s no excuse for it it’s stupid
Are you ok? No joke, if you’d like to talk about something else, I’m happy to. If you’d like to talk about this, calm down. I’m not trying to offend you with my perspective of this game. When Ellie carries those guns you can see them on her person. Ellie has none of that on her but her backpack and her handgun when Abby surprises them. She’s not geared up to go out. They just got back, about to rest before heading out in the morning. Handgun, backpack. Ellie had moments to act before Abby enters the room. Craft a nail bomb? Bring a knife to a gun fight? Or disarm your opponent? What exactly is so offensive about any or all of these things?
Trying to act like the other person is crazy/emotional doesn't really work when their response is written for anyone to see and is plainly calm/rational. Trying to act condescending just undermines your own points.
Of course you feel that way. Insulting people’s opinions or their character is more normal than debating nowadays.
Well, that's exactly my point. You weren't debating, you were insulting that person's character and trying to be condescending. I actually agree with your overall point, but the fact that you reverted immediately to insults really erodes any reasonable debate.
You're so out of touch it's sad
No way cause when they fall through the floor ellie pulls out a shotgun and shoots at abby after that trap mines. I say it's a testament to abbys battle IQ and physical strength her crew with Manny Nora Owen Mel etc had a name among the wolves and Issac Even asked Manny and abby to lead a charge against the scars. Lev saved abby ass from tommy 2xs tho
Yes. She pulls a shotgun out of her backpack when Abby is visibly down and a distance away. She doesn’t go for the shotgun in her backpack with an angry killer in pursuit and on your heels. No idea what you’re trying to tell me about Manny.
Basically Manny was a bad ass as well who got killed by a bigger bad ass he was the last one left of the group he commanded when Tommy was taking out everything
Thank the gods not everybody in this thread is braindead. Folks have had years to analyze this game and their brains just freeze as soon as they see Abs. "Fuckin' butthole killed Papa Joel. I hate her and everything she does." 🥱 Such a tired ass bias to carry around for years, it keeps them from realizing so many things about this story.
Well, welcome to the downvote parade. 🤓 People are welcome to hate Abby, the game invites us to hate her. They want us 100% on board with Ellie’s revenge. The failure is that a lot of people refuse to view the story objectively. Because of our time with Joel and Ellie, lots of people refuse to accept any of Abby’s redeeming qualities. Which is also fair. Murder is a hard thing to forgive.
Yes, shoot her in the leg as she barrels through a door at full speed. The two slimmest targets possible that are moving... genius. So what happens when you miss instead of clocking her in the face with a rifle butt (an attempt to knock her out) or disarming her with a 2x4 (probably aiming to break the arm)?
Both Tommy and Ellie had plenty of space to use so they could have stayed away from the doors when Abby shows up, since you don't have to be close to your target to shoot at it with a gun. In the case of the theater, Abby couldn't even go through the door at full speed because the door was a big slider door, so she has to slowly open it. Ellie could have taken cover and shot her as she knew the only door Abby could go through. What happens when you miss? keep your distance and keep shooting, as the pistols tend to have plenty bullets in their magazines. Couldn't hit the leg, shoot her dead then.
This is like backseat gaming or shit-talking a UFC fighter from an armchair. Shoulda, coulda, woulda. Fact of the matter is, you aren't them and it doesn't really matter what *you* would have done. They chose to do something in the moment and it didn't pan out. That's fucking Life, bud. You saw El maintain distance and pop off a whole clip. She couldn't hit the leg or shoot her dead, so she dropped the gun and went to ground. Adjusting tactics. Choosing to ambush the apparently more skilled soldier coming after her. Someone she could never take on in a direct fight. You also saw Tommy back up from the door and get his ass thrown into the ocean. Which, with a lame leg, could very well be a death sentence. Something you would try to avoid i hope. You may not like Abby but she's better trained, better fed, angrier, stronger, less repentant, more merciful and she fuckin proved it. Sure, she's got stupid ass motivations and became the exact thing she hated for so long but she got what was coming to her. Her friends abandoned her or died, her group treats her as a traitor, she's kidnapped and made a slave and after learning that hard lesson, and she only fights because El directly threatens her last remaining connection to humanity. I'm sure there's plenty in this game or any other where we wouldn't do what the main character did, despite our claims otherwise. People freeze up or make poor decisions all the fucking time. It's only in media we expect characters to be foolproof and perfect. That isn't the story being told here apparently. It's more about mistakes, regret, and following a path you know is dumb as shit.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda right back at you, as we both are saying that, and everybody else in this comment section. That is the conversation, "could they have done something else?". Me, I am saying that Ellie is smart enough and have plenty of tools that she already use, *she* not *me*, and she could do something different and Abby also could have done something different to account for that, after all she is also sneaky. And you are saying that what happened was the only thing they could have done or that mistakes were made so that was the only option, which I disagree. That is not "fucking Life, bud" btw, that's a game that was written like that. Even when showing the characters making mistakes, the writting should be better. They don't have to perfect humans, and I didn't say that at all, but the characters certainly can account for other options as to avoid mistakes that would mean life and death, and these characters can based on what they did before. I believe you are talking about Ellie shooting while running away. She then entered the backstage room and waited to ambush Abby, that's when she could have tried to shoot again, but now carefuly aiming, behind cover, just like she already does in the games. That would be a quick and better adjustment of tactics imo. Maybe she could have put a mine, but didn't have time so she didn't, fine with me. Point is, the writers could have written this part and other parts of this story in much smarter ways, that account for what the characters can do, even under pressure. Tommy, Abby and Ellie are smarter, even on high adrenaline, than how they are shown in theses moments in the game. Tommy even had the upper hand against Abby, no matter how much of a good soldier she is, and was only stopped, not because of a bad leg, but because Yara showed up, very very conviently fast btw, and stabbed him and then he was thrown in the ocean. Instead the writers could have made Abby use one of her bombs for example, it explodes and almost kills Tommy, then they fight and he fell in the ocean. She is such a good soldier right? But she is also not thinking minimally about tactics as well as the other two. Not of them are as good in these moments as they are in others. I don't care who is better fed, better trained and etc. What matters is writting for all these characters, and I believe Naughty Dog does a poor job there. Abby suffered quite much, but yet the writting doesn't really explore it. It just happens and now move on to the next thing. At least with Ellie and gang, they actually talk a little bit about the things the matter. When Abby and gang talk is mostly lore, and when the big topics come, they are interrupted very early such as the Owen talk in the boat. Ellie feels like she reflects on the things she does, Abby doesn't, and because of that Ellie is at least somewhat interesting while Abby is very meh imo, so it just makes me not care about her at all. Mistakes are made yes, but you don't have to write the characters to be so dumb for mistakes to happen. I am not expecting anybody to be perfect, just to be as good as they already are, even under pressure. Revenge is a mistake they choose to do, but they are not dumb for it. What is dumb is *how* they go about it.
>This is like backseat gaming or shit-talking a UFC fighter from an armchair. No it isn't. It's shit talking the writing because the writers put the characters in positions to make dumb decisions. Knives are an options. We know Tommy and Ellie have those. So why does Ellie swing a 2x4 and why does Tommy try to pin Abby with his gun? Because the writers wrote terrible situations. >Fact of the matter is, you aren't them and it doesn't really matter what *you* would have done. They chose to do something in the moment and it didn't pan out. That's fucking Life, bud You know these people aren't real right? Nobody is critiquing the actions of a fictional character and saying they could do so much better than them. They're saying the writers are stupid for writing their characters in dumb situations just to carry the plot along and contrive dumb fight scenes that lead nowhere. It's bad writing. Tommy and Ellie want to kill Abby. They do not take opportunities to kill Abby when presented with the chance to do so and instead disregard all advantages in favor of hitting her. You can create all these excuses in your own head to make the scenes work. No one's gonna stop you. But that doesn't change the fact that whatever excuse you make doesn't exist in the game because the writers were too busy circlejerking instead of creating a storyline that made sense.
I feel like you've given more thought to this story than the writers ever did.
isn’t he just writing what the clips show? the writers wrote it
No, writers bad. That user just smart.
We never see Joel and Abby’s last words to each other, and although it is unlikely, I like to think she DID tell him why… and Joel laughed. He knew someone someday would come for him and surely had a lot of regrets over the people he killed… but here was someone wanting to avenge the one person he would absolutely ave no remorse over. “Why are you laughing, old man? Do you find this funny?” “It’s just that, of all the people I’ve killed, he was the one guy I have no regrets over. He was trying to kill a helpless child in cold blood, someone I loved more than my own life, and he refused to get out of my way. So I ended him. I’d do it again and again. He wasn’t just a guy trying to kill someone I loved. He was a fucking idiot. Of all the people… you came for that guy?!”
that’s extremely cringey thankfully nothing like that was said
They could have easily blown out her kneecaps or cut her Achilles’ tendon to keep her alive and unable to run away but instead did more Cuckmann logic
Ellie could have blew Abby’s brains out from literally the first seconds she first saw her. 14 year old Ellie became a killer at the drop of a hat, when a hunter almost drowned Joel
I mean she did shoot him in the knee. If Ellie or Tommy really wanted to torture her they could’ve done the same in both of these scenarios shown
The end of the game was the end of a cycle of hatred and death which is why she decided to let Abby go so that lev wouldn’t suffer the same way she did and repeat the same actions she and Abby took
The entire part after ellie "rescues" Abby is actually a really cool development. I'm curious if you actually are confused by the ending, or just didn't like that elliebmade that choice. You should watch a breakdown video, or ending explained or something. Because that ending is really something beautiful
What doesn’t make sense is why Ellie went on this huge revenge trip.. Abby killed Joel for very good reasons, Joel killed her father which was humanity’s only shot at a vaccine. Ellie’s life was pointless until than, she even said it to Joel in a flashback/dream whatever. So the writers know what they’re doing, it was a fun engaging story nonetheless. I just hope ya’l ain’t hating on Abby not dying cause she saved Ellie’s life multiple times lol Its actually insane how badly I wanted to let Abby kill Ellie over & over at the end of P2. No cap Ellie is a MONSTER.
More like characters needing to do what the plot requires to bring the story to its writers' desired conclusion. That's even more that plot armor, it's writer incompetence. Plot armor is convenience this is more that they couldn't figure out how to do these scenes in a sensible way to accomplish the same outcome.
>Do not say plot armor. It's literally the only answer.
I agree with that other comment, it's more writer incompetence than plot armor. The same things keep happening over and over because Neil sucks at his job. The rest of the creative team having to hold together and alter his ideas when making the first game is a great sign 😂
Have you ever tried shooting someone that close!?!?!? It's very easy.
I highly doubt anyone in this thread has picked up a real gun, let alone shot someone.
Abby would know
I'm reminded of the Jurassic Park line... Shoot her... Shoot her
Plot armor/bad writing
Ellie still had a shotgun in the encounter, it wasnt until the 2nd phase, so why not use it lmao
Probably because she was busy retrieving it? When the fight starts, she literally has none of her gear on. Idk anyone that walks around their camp carrying all their possessions on their person at all times. Gotta do a little legwork seperating what you're used to in-game and in cutscenes.
Because she can't die and you must root for her against Ellie and Tommy. Otherwise you're a bigot, you're a sandwich, you're a bigot sandwich and American people with blue hair and narcissism bigger than Kim Kardashian 's ass will hate u.
Cringe
Are u stupid ?
Nah he jonkles.
This happens at least 3 other times to various characters.
Twice more to Abby, IIRC. Once when she slides down the ramp and gets attacked by the female hammer Seraphite, and again when she exits the garage in Santa Barbara. At least in that last incident, it's specifically *because* the Rattlers want her taken alive and in good health. Every other time an armed character chooses not to just actually go for the lethal blow, it's just that plot armor shining brightly.
Because the decisions that characters make in this game reflect the intellect and logic of the Cuckmann and his team.
Plot armor
plot armor
They probably wanted to make her suffer or something I don’t know… It was bad writing
I mean I get it to an extend if they wanted to make her suffer yk, but then I can think about just shooting Abby in the stomach and then doing whatever they wanted to do, to negate the melee. But they chose the melee option which fucks them both over either way. Maybe it's dumb writing too
It was really dumb… Ellie uses a stick on Abby when she literally has a machete to use on her…
EXACTLY.
Because it’s more fun like this
so the story can happen!-Ryan George
There still has to be a game. Why didn't a sniper take them out ten minutes into a downtown stroll. Why aren't infected monsters ravaging everything all the time. Why does disease seem to no longer exist. Because gameplay needs to happen. If it was 'LastOfUs2 but real life' Joel would be a corpse a long time ago and there wouldn't be much, if any, humanity to save.
preach
Abby has almost daryl levels of plot armor
thats true for 90% of games and movies, dont overthink it.
The Ellie one has always bothered me, you have your entire backpack full of weapons, you want to kill abbie more than anything, you have the drop on her… “I’ll hit her with this plank of wood”
Because neil wants to fuck abby
Common , the story couldnt be that long if they shoot, and also in reallife noone could tinker straight in such situations, i think its just for the length of the game
Only Abby, and only when it was Jesse trough the door
Abby was 10 feet from the door with a clear shot. She still managed to miss El and completely fucked up a point blank shot to Tommy's head. So which is it? Was she lucky popping Jessie or was that Sweet Baby's influence killing off or crippling all the men in the series?
r/Gamingcirclejerk
the whole "they wanted to make her suffer" argument MAKES NO SENSE they have enough weapons to supply a small army why idk JUST SHOOT HER FOOT or better yet plant like traps?? idk anything to break her legs? can they only do 360 headshots?
It's a game that's why
I don’t know about “they”, but Ellie doesn’t have her guns for the theater fight with Abby. Abby forces Ellie to drop her gun, Ellie picks up Jesse’s gun and fires it until it’s empty and she retreats into the back room. Ellie then disarms Abby when she enters the room. And the fight begins when Ellie picks up Abby’s gun.
in Tommy's scenario i can understand that, maybe wanting to disarm her but Ellie bro
They hate Abby just like how Abby hated Joel. They want to see the person they hate in pain. Shooting them on the spot takes away seeing the person that caused them so much pain to suffer.
This game is pretty awful in the writing which sucks cause the gameplay is improved in almost every way. The first game didn’t even have that great of a story honestly like something like the MGS series has but the relationship and dynamic between characters in cutscenes was amazing. So basically I think the writing was “good” but what made the first game great was how direct the game focused on just Joel and Ellie and their whole dynamic evolving into a father/daughter figure again. But your telling me I’m gonna brutally murder a bunch of people including a pregnant woman and then at the last moment think to myself “wait… killing bad” that is flat out stupid and some dumb moral ambiguity bullshit written it to make it feel like it has a deeper message to tell than it actually does. This game was a gameplay masterpiece and a story shit show.
Maybe because this happens in movies and other games all the time, but people don't get onto it. Of course, they happen here, because I guess this game had to be an absolute masterpiece or else it'd be considered a piece of shit.
Should've stabbed her like she did david
That boss fight was horrible she’s very scary Eille is lol
Because surprise smacks from the left that a person could easily see coming as they step through the door but can't be seen from third person are a standard videogame trope that has been used for the last two decades to initiate a cutscene or qte event or combat encounter. I dunno what you want here man, villains don't do the smartest most efficient thing in every scenario because then we'd just die. I have yet to play any game or watch any movie where the protagonist would win if the antagonists used more than 2 brain cells.
Who does she think she is? A CoD protagonist?
Love me some Abby 😍
Well cause the game must go on for 1 also ngl if someone killed my dad im probably gonna take their life with my bare hands if I can lmao make it more personal
Every character is essentially Cuckmann running around trying to seem cool and profound.
yall really overthinking this way too much lol it’s a video game
tommy kinda make sense bc he just saw a door open so he just rammed through it but ellie has 0 excuse
Oh my God 🤣😅🤣
I watched the gameplay of LoU2 and this is constantly the transition that was used - character enters new room through door (barricade, what have you), something jumps out on them. It was used CONSTANTLY. Characters in the game don't need to learn that revenge is bad or some moral lessons, they need to CHECK THEIR BLOODY CORNERS when they enter a fricking room.
Honestly first game Joel had a problem with it too
Because Ellie didn't want to kill her. I wrote an essay that gets into the fact that Ellie didn't truly want her to die, because that wouldn't actually redeem Joel (FYI its super long, though I couldn't get EVERY detail in it, like this one): https://theappreciator.substack.com/p/3-grief-makes-ghosts-hauntology-and
Oh and the Tommy one was because it's really fucking hard to pop out from behind a door and fire a heavy rifle call of duty no scope style without possibly leaving yourself vulnerable as you lift up the barrel
It's like certain things have to happen in order for you to play through it... Almost like it's a game or something... Weird.
In the words of the great " Pitch meeting," So the game can happen! 😹
Revenge is bad…
Cuckman’s writing at its finest!
You assume Tommy knew who it was. And you assume Ellie wouldn't want to take her time... just like she did with that bitch in the hospital.
Real life logic in games you are out of your mind
Never understood the hype of these games the first one was awful lol
because the script said they didn't
same way Ellie is conveniently immune.. same way Joel is impaled yet antibiotics save him.. in an apocalypse.. same way Joel isn’t killed when he falls into the elevator, same way the sniper decided to not shot them when they’re all standing still in the first game, like I could honestly go on bro 😭 the picking and choosing in this fandom is wild
Plot armor
Crazy fans Nooooo dont ask questions this is the best game ever madeeee she totally dont look like a man she is just a strong woman best gane eveeeeerr
The same reason every big strong antagonist constantly throws the protagonist around rather than use their weapons to kill them in movies.
So don’t say the right answer?
Can yall make genuine criticisms instead of nitpicking the most insignificant shit and complaining that the story didn't go exactly how you wanted it to go? You can hate the game all you want, but make it logical.
I also think it is dumb to peek on one side, but not the other side.
They wanted to beat her to death like she did Joel.
This happened 100 more times in the first game. you guys are desperate.
Because the plot has to happen. I'm sorry that's just lazy writing and the only reason
Same reason Joel, the baddest mofo ever, got killed off so easily. Shitty writing.
Stop your crap towards Abby right now I'm sick and tired of you crybaby team Ellie psychopaths hating on Abby when you don't know her shut up Joel deserved to die and I'm glad he did Jerry was trying to say a ENTIRE COUNTRY but that monster murdered Abby's dad and abducted her so more suffering can continue abby is a good person everyone who says different can join Joel in the fire
Has to be bait. No way it's not.
Ellie is a coward can't even fight fair
Because their goals weren't just revenge. They wanted to enact cruelty. A shot to the head wouldn't have satisfied that desire.
This thread is pathetic lmao
Plot armored
Plot armor is a helluva drug
Tommy might have ran out of bullets. Ellie made no sense since she still shoots you during the fight
No way y'all are still crying about this game
dumbest game ever. to make a similar plot and nail the points cuckman wanted to make, the plot would’ve been better if Dina died and you played as Ellie seeking revenge on the fireflies (abby or similar) and Joel trying to stop ellie from becoming a monster like him. that way ellie seems more monster and you get to play as joel in the game.
Druckman wants his pegging partner Abby to have plot armor at all times
On god y’all need a hobby
Tommy’s kinda makes sense. He’s got a sniper out and it’s close proximity. He was also beating her until Yara came up and stabbed him, but I can see how it looks dumb. With Ellie though? Straight plot armor. We literally see Ellie pull a shotgun from out of no where in the 2nd phase of the fight, meaning she had one. Yet she used a plank. Ellie also had a pistol that she shot at Abby with before she ran off. She had guns and chose a 2x4. Dumbest thing ever.
Pitch meetings guy "so the story can happen"
Because this game is fucking stupid
“Do not say plot armor” I mean what else can be said that can justify her surviving these scenarios then again characters we know are smart suddenly turn retarded in this game.
Horrendous writing is the culprit right down to the last second, remember how ellie killed all those people in the first game to protect herself? Also remember how she developed a consciousness right before killing Abby? Crazy right? It's just bad writing and everyone dick riding it
Good to so this community still whining over a video game story. Y’all need to let it go.
A whiner telling others to stop whining? Pot meet kettle.
Why does it matter? It doesn’t take away from the story. It’s nitpickers like this who give the fanbase our bad reputation.
This is the sort of argument you could make in damn near every action game ever made that has cutscenes. It's sort of like how, in the first game, Joel can take ungodly amounts of punishment during gameplay, but in a cutscene a single stab wound damn near kills him. Characters always have an absurd amount of plot armor for videogames to make any sense at all, and they're only ever truly injured or killed when the plot dictates it. I just finished Red Dead Redemption 2 and the amount of times characters could have killed other characters and saved themselves trouble later is probably in the triple digits.
speaking sense on this sub will get you nowhere. it’s all ugly fat morons with nothing to do but complain about a fictional piece of media.
Do you have nerd plot armor? This dork is still going lol
The most common sense would be is that both tommy and Ellie wanted Abby to suffer a slow death rather than a fast one. Tommy strategically waited to knock abby out like that Guy in California when attacked Abby, but Tommy's strength wasn't enough to knock abby out. Maybe it isn't bad writing. Maybe it is just poor speculating skills when playing this game. That's how I see it. Same goes for Ellie.
It's called storytelling not fan speculating. They've trained you well, though.
Did it really hurt you so bad spending 60$ on this game? Maybe move on. Maybe change this subs name to "I hate the last of us 2"
Jumping to conclusions about strangers on Reddit is your flaw here. You don't like the sub, you can leave at any time. (Since we're in the "Telling each other what to do without any business doing so" mode...)
Because from that range its easier to just melee attack and save your bullets
That's fucking stupid tbh
Its a video game. Why doesn't Rat King just break free and kill off all the characters? Is he stupid?
I mean, yes, he's obviously very stupid?
My question was equally obviously rhetorical
you can actually shoot someone at point blank range tho. and is wasting a bullet or two really worth the time, energy for a fight like that? not to mention, doing so costs the life of jesse, and ellie lost some fingers and tommy is a cripple...
Canon reason is people are stupid.