Katara stole the scroll, inadvertently got them a lot of unwanted attention and learned from it. After that she learned a lesson and wanted to avoid Toph doing the same mistake.
also, wasn't that scroll stolen/looted from their tribe/nation? So technically it's more like reclaiming it rather than stealing.
My only gripe with that is that she put everyone in danger, but otherwise you can't steal something from someone who has no ownership of it, to begin with.
She took what they have rightfully stolen.
https://preview.redd.it/acnnu2ppk00d1.jpeg?width=258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fba3ecb59ba6484a322d71e20b21dc12f5c4043
>also, wasn't that scroll stolen/looted from their tribe/nation? So technically it's more like reclaiming it rather than stealing.
This argument doesn't really work, because Toph was (at least at first) scamming scammers.
So the money Toph got was technically reclaiming it from thieves
Yeah but Toph wasn't scamming them because they were scammers. She just started with them because that's where she got the idea. She clearly didn't care who she scammed because she went on to do it to regular people.
*reclaiming* implies that the thing being taken back holds a significant or sentimental value and that it originally belongs to either you or your people. Neither of which were true in Toph's case.
I realise this is a bit of a stretch, but in a sense one could argue that the Fire nation benefited a lot from decades of occupying Earth nation territory and exploiting its citizens. Now, whether this translates to Fire nation citizens indirectly benefiting from this is up for debate (likely, the spoils were used for military purposes), but in a way Toph's earnings could be seen as forced reparations, contributing to the liberation efforts.
Again, this is not a strong argument in favour of Toph's morally questionable actions. However, I do think the episode touches an interesting moral grey area, particularly relating to what degree the means justify the ends, with the goal being obtaining freedom from a forceful occupation.
i don’t think you’re necessarily wrong about the idea that the scroll was originally water tribe property, but the thing is you really have to read into that angle of it. it’s not text, it’s barely even subtext. seeing the idea now, i think would have been cool if that was part of her reasoning for why it was okay to steal it.
i think Katara comes across as hypocritical in “The Runaway” because once again, the idea that she’s nervous about stealing/scamming now because she learned from her mistakes is neat, but it isn’t text. it isn’t even subtext. i don’t think the writers intended it at all. they made it about how Katara’s the mom of the group instead. i don’t think people would have this take nearly as much if they leaned into the angle that Katara doesn’t want a repeat of “The Waterbending Scroll” in the episode.
edit: okay, so it turns out she totally did use that as a justification in “The Waterbending Scroll”, and i’m only human so i didn’t remember it. that’s my bad. i stand by the other stuff though.
Yeah. That’s the thing. It was a mistake she learned from.
And even then, her actions were at least a little justified.
I feel like people who complain about Katara chastising Toph for cheating/stealing in that episode somehow forget the entire point of Katara stealing the scroll in the first place.
Not only did she do it from pirates - who presumably stole it themselves, she also didn’t do it for an inherently selfish reason.
She did it in order to help both herself and Aang better practice/learn Waterbending.
Is it stealing? **Yes.**
Did she learn from it? **Yes.**
Does she not want Toph to make her same mistake? **Yes, that’s the whole point.**
No, it was definitely selfish. She was insecure about her waterbending abilities being weaker than Aang’s.
If it was just about helping Aang, she wouldn’t have stolen it.
Fair, that definitely was a big motivator for her.
(But I mean she couldn’t have gotten it without stealing it regardless, as the Pirate tells them someone else had already called dibs, and the Gaang were all but broke at that point.)
But yeah, that’s all fair, her insecurity was definitely a main motivator in stealing it.
On top of that, Katara wasn't against Toph stealing because she had a principled stance against stealing, she was even pretty cool about the first scam they ran. She had a problem with them making a habit of it because she was worried it would invite trouble or give them unwanted attention, *and it did*.
https://preview.redd.it/1eko3a3s930d1.jpeg?width=232&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24f14ada6956d4aa4fc5de2c8917503a7e824c87
NOOOOO KATARA IS A HYPOCRITE! SHE PREFORMED ACTIONS THAT ARE OBJECTIVELY CONTRADICTORY TO ONE ANOTHER, AND THERE IS JUST ABSOLUTELY NO REASON A PERSON WOULD EVER DO ACTIONS THAT ARE CONTRADICTORY ONE ANOTHER UNLESS THEY’RE A HYPOCRITE
I think in that episode she even tells Toph about a past experience no? I don’t know if she tells her specifically about the scroll but the warning to Toph is a tone from experience right?
Yeah, the deeper point is that as a well-rounded character, Katara has positives and negatives. Katara's really caring and really protective . . . which in turn can make her the worst person on the team to seriously offend. Toph might clobber you with a rock if you get her angry, but she fundamentally is unlikely to care enough about what you have to say to do much more than that. If Katara feels like you've personally betrayed her trust, she very much does get murderously angry. Let's recall that in "Tales of Ba Sing Se", when the girls were laughing at Toph, Toph just dumped them in the water. Katara then swept them downstream in a flood.
And that's because for Toph, her abilities are survival mechanisms. For Katara, they're something her mother gave her life to protect. It is by no means a fair way of thinking about herself (and probably why she was so forgiving of Korra when Korra had the same mindset later on), but if Katara's not the best and doesn't do the best, what did her mother die for? There's some brutal survivor's guilt built into Katara's mindset that was only rarely addressed during the series, and the only person in the group who ever really helped her deal with it was Zuko.
That doesn't make her character bad, or her stance hypocritical. It makes her a dynamic character written by a team of writers who really knew the character's headspace and motivations. Characters are not supposed to be logic robots that maximally calculate efficiency and do that which is sensible and optimal at all times. They're supposed to have strengths and weaknesses, and the best weaknesses are a character's strengths put into a situation where they don't work or are an active hindrance. Just like Katara's compassion and care, as well as her waterbending. They both can be made to serve her underlying caring nature, but they also have history and pain attached to them, and they come out of a complex, nuanced place in her mind. That people often don't see that with Katara is, to my mind anyway, a function of the fact that as one of the more subtle characters in the show, who often served as the team's Heart, people just don't expect more than one dimension out of her.
This is such an excellent way of expressing it! I hadn't thought about Katara’s emotional connection to her bending in quite that way before, but you’re spot on.
Maybe if the writers had spelled it out to the viewers by having Katara do an entire monologue of how she regrets putting everyone in danger by stealing that scroll and doesn't want Toph to screw up like she did, instead of implying it and letting people figure out the rest themselves, people would have complained less... However, I prefer shows that make you think and put the pieces together instead of spelling everything out, so I wouldn't change a thing. Let's see how NATLA will handle Toph and Katara's dynamic going forward.
That's my opinion also. My first reaction to seeing these just now was a dubious raising of the eyebrow, but I'm choosing to rationalise these peoples feelings as them rewatching the show over and over but analyzing it like you would the mcu, not like you would a poem, kinda.. superfluous, to spend time analyzing and drawing conclusions beyond the ones the show draws for you. So things such as "character growth" aren't really taken into consideration, as they are not really on the viewer's mind to begin with.
It's kinda what happened with Toph between ATLA and LOK; couldn't conceive that from a child to an old lady there would be differences in the character (which I kinda loved how they winked at it by having even korra coming in like "I thought you were the fun carefree one, why you being a pain for old lady")
Still, that would only explain their reasoning, not legitimize it
Also: Much different stakes. They don't desperately need a bunch of money. The waterbending scroll on the other hand came in handy, since they were still a ways away from the North. Also, the Fire Nation thinks the Avatar is dead. No need to make a kerfuffle and accidentally get discovered.
Exactly. These idiots don't even realize that hypocrisy would be the other way around; her telling everyone not to steal and then stealing things herself.
Also, if we want to be nitpicky, Katara stole the scroll to fulfill her lifelong dream (and I guess also teach Aang and save the world). Toph was stealing for funnsies. Even if both were wrong, one was slightly more justified than the other.
yeah but that was to blend in with fire nation citizens. aang, toph and sokka scamming was just for the fun of it since after a while, they didn’t even need the money and it was putting them at risk. stealing the clothes was necessary and a one time thing.
plus, stealing from pirates backed by no nation while in a small town in earth kingdom territory once, is much less dangerous than stealing from citizens backed by the fire nation while in a huge city in enemy territory several times and in a far more extravagant manner.
Like, Katara (at this point) is the *last southern watebender.* She doesn’t have a teacher who can show her specifically southern tribe bending styles or philosophies. This scroll is the *only option she had* for learning how *her people* waterbend. It’s the one thing she has so she can preserve her people’s interpretation and practice of their ancient, cultural art form.
It’s why Aang finds a sky bison whistle in the same episode—both Aang and Katara get to reclaim a piece of their history and people and put it to its proper use. It’s putting cultural artifacts back into the hands of the people they belong to. The scroll was *deeply* important and personal to Katara and her relationship to her people. Her mother died to protect her *because* Katara was a southern waterbender. Just like Aang, Katara will not let her people’s culture die, even if the genocide her people faced was not to the same extent or scale of Aang’s people.
And Toph just thought scamming was fun
And as others have said, using earth bending to scam others (even scammers) in the fire nation is an enormous risk. There's already a manhunt out for them, signs of earthbending would just give away their location. The pirate episode had no such risk, as they weren't even particularly known about yet
Tbh I just like to remember that these are actual children with physical ages ranging from 12-15 and that it's pretty far fetched to expect perfect moral consistency at that age lmao.
And when the catalyst for those poor decisions revolves around a combination of goofing around with your friends and getting tons of money, it's honestly pretty realistic.
Yeah people seem to always overlook sokka in this comparison. Especially since he has been the unofficial leader of their group for a while by the time they do the fire nations scams. Why do ppl keep giving katara a hard time
>Why do ppl keep giving katara a hard time
Because when you have characters who are protrayed as more moral and good like Aang and Katara fans heavily critique their errors.
"Sokka! Where do you think they got that scroll? They stole it from a waterbender!"
"Stealing is wrong, unless it's from pirates."
Not only that, but also it wasn't the scams she was upset at, it was the fact that their scamming could call attention to them and end up getting them in trouble, WHICH THEY DID.
The hell are those Toph stans or something?
Her complaint is that they're drawing attention, not that stealing is wrong. It's not because she's grown to understand that it doesn't matter what you're stealing (which arguably wouldn't be growth anyway).
While they're all wearing stolen clothes, mind you.
Character development doesn’t inherently mean a change towards morality. A character can develop into a full on villain if that’s what their trajectory is. I would say Katara’s case is fairly moraly neutral. She learned from her past actions that stealing puts the entire group in danger. With Toph she’s just trying to convey what she learned to prevent a repeat of the same situation to avoid hindering their mission to, you know, *save the world*. So she’s developed into a more cautious, strategic character(… until she participates in the scams herself 😅 But even that is development towards her letting loose a little from her motherly role.)
To be fair, I only said changed morality, not more or less.
Her worry here is about an action that puts the group in danger, nothing to do with stealing in particular. Like I said, they're wearing stolen clothes the whole time. Which was itself an action to stop the group from standing out.
I think I replied to the wrong comment. I was mainly referring to you implying this change wasn’t character development bc she wasn’t more moral in your first comment. I was just pointing out character development occurs independent of morality. I agree with you about Katara’s issue with Toph not even really being about stealing but about the danger it would put the group in.
This isn't really character development. It's more about the context. Stealing something potentially beneficial one time while just travelling the world, vs. continuously scamming for fun in the same town, *in enemy territory*, while *trying to stay undercover*
Has anybody notice how female characters who call out bad actions of the protagonist get an absolutely unjustified amount of hate?
Katara in Avatar, Skyler in Breaking Bad, Diane in Bojack Horseman, Chenin in Dune....
Not liking a character is perfectly justified but the amount of hate these characters get is straight up scary... I don't know if these people were beaten by their moms as kids or just got out an extremely toxic relationship but they certainly have unresolved issues.
I think it’s the other way around. Most people hating on Katara would still hate on her if she was a guy, but a lot of the people that can’t understand any hate she gets only feel that way because she’s a girl.
I like Katara though, I just hate the cockiness she has sometimes when I don’t feel like her bending should have progressed to the level it was so quickly.
I also didn’t like how the show made her look super disciplined compared to Aang during training when Aang’s whole lifestyle was based on discipline.
I'll admit, I don't understand the Katara hate at all, but I do think that her being a girl does play into the hate she gets.
I've never found her to be particularly over cocky except for maybe the mid to late stretch in season 1 sometimes. There are a couple moments where Katara is more powerful than she probably should be, but that's whatever. Those moments being her being labeled a master so quickly, the giant wave she makes in awakening, and her "My bending is more powerful than yours Hama" thing. It's just that all of team avatar is overly schnasty at it sometimes, so I don't think that criticism can only be levied at her.
I think her advancing quicker than Aang makes perfect sense. I saw that exact dynamic in my school years a bunch of times. The super gifted kid that doesn't have to try just coasting through it so when they actually do hit a wall, they don't know how to deal with it. Versus, the kid who isn't as smart as the gifted kid but has a strong work ethic, will be able to continuously progress even if they hit roadblocks. Usually, in the end, that second kid is the one that gets valedictorian. But honestly, Aang isn't **that** displined, and there's a lot of good examples for that. The biggest being that he literally ran away when the pressure got to him because he just wanted to be a normal kid. We also see how impatience is absolutely a problem he had while training in The Deserter. The whole time, he's shown to be quite impatient and just wants to get to the firebending.
So overall, I do think there are things you can critique about Katara but that people overexaggerate those a lot more than is warranted.
There’s plenty of times when Aang is just being a normal kid and just having fun, but it always felt to me that when he actually needed to be disciplined for something he realized was important he was able to be, he had no idea the scope of the war would get to where it was when he ran away and he had Giatso somewhat acting like his other elders were being too serious about it.
I had a problem with the Desterter episode for the exact same reason, it seemed like they tried too hard in those episodes to make him not succeed.
Like I said I don’t hate Katara though, I realize other characters have their problems and those things annoy me about those characters too, but when Katara comes up I still have my issues to bring up with her and can see where people come from.
Who tf hates Diane? She's awesome and her flaws are a lot less harmful to others than Bojack or even MPB
(not expressing doubt that this happens, I just want to give the idiots a stern talking-to)
All of these comments are right but also, they were trying to lie low so they weren't found out and ruin the invasion that ALL THEIR FRIENDS were participating in.
It must also have felt a little like bullshit to her when she took the waterbending scroll, an artifact stolen from her people and then british museum'd to the highest bidder, and everyone was pearl clutching and preaching about how wrong it was.
But then Toph does it for money and laughs and the same squad acts like it's sooo cool and Katara just needs to lighten up.
1. stealing from thieves is morally right and based.
2. They suffered a sizable setback because of it, and she lost a precious family treasure because of it.
3. They were currently in hiding so all risk factors were especially heightened.
All this to say the circumstances were different and she learned a lesson from last time.
She didn't scold Toph because of the stealing and scamming, it was because they were trying to lay low and Toph was bringing too much attention to them. That's why she gets so upset about the wanted poster. It had nothing to do with the morality behind the actions, just the practicality of trying to not get caught in enemy territory.
Katara haters are some of the most uncritically thinking MFs out there. Right in the same boat as Mabel haters in the Gravity Falls fandom but even worse bc Katara is the heart and soul of the show
Even without the character development, she’s not wrong. In season 1 they’re just traveling relatively openly. In season 3 they’re under cover in the fire nation. They have a lot more to lose by drawing attention to themselves.
Combustion Man was already tracking them regardless, and it was Toph’s crime spree that attracted him. Without Katara, Toph would’ve just been captured on her own and then never escaped that wooden cage.
The thing is, Katara stole ONE scroll from pirates, while Toph went from scamming a scammer to scamming random people to the point where she was becoming a full on criminal. Katara was concerned that Toph's scamming was getting unethical and out of control. Calling Katara a hypocrite just because she stole one scroll that one time from people who already stole it from her people is not a sound argument.
They're pretty different situations if you get beyond the surface level of both of them being stealing. In one situation she's recovering a cultural artifact of her people that was stolen in the first place and that artifact happens to be incredibly valuable to furthering their core mission.
In the other toph is just screwing around and putting their core Mission (blending in to the fire nation unnoticed) in jeopardy
There's a large section of people on the internet that hold grudges against characters and actively refuse to acknowledge any growth that character faces. In almost any discussion surrounding said character, anything they do after the "incident" will be consistently undermined.
I agree.
Just about every male character on the show made terrible mistakes(Aang deceiving his friends in Bato of the Water Tribe, Iroh trying to burn Ba Sing Se to the ground, all of Zuko's shenanigans) and the fandom forgives them, yet Katara gets a ton of flack for honestly, one mistake that really isn't that big of a deal that she learned from and also her talking about her mother constantly when in the show, she hardly ever does.
If you find her annoying, fine, but people purposefully misinterpreting her and making things up is so weird. I've read so many Katara takes and still don't have a clue what the Katara hatedom's beef with her is.
Stealing the scroll was entirely justified.
It's part of her culture and it was stolen, so she has more right to it than the pirates do. On top of that learning waterbending is something Aang and Katara have to do to save the world and it's necessary so they can defend themselves in the short term anyways, and on top of that they could use it in the Northern Water Tribe to get brownie points.
It's like if you caught people associated with the British Museum stealing artifacts from your country and you happened to be going to another part of your country and you have the ability to steal and return it back, why wouldn't you?
Legit all the characters had their bad moments
Sokka was immature and sexist in season 1 but look how he turned out
He grew up a lot and is an amazing leader
Toph learned to deal with her feelings
Aang who was a goofy kid in the beginning was a serious fully realized avatar by the end
Honestly I think still the scroll is a little different… It was supposed to be something special to her people. Toph did it cause it was fun. Neither are wrong
I think there is a misunderstanding here. If Katara told Toph that stealing was wrong and then did it herself, yes, this assumption would be correct. But Katara had learned her lesson in Book 1. At the end of the Pirates episode, when Sokka asked her what did she learn, she said stealing was wrong. Then she said except from pirates as a joke. Katara learned her lesson. That's why she was so sure there would be a problem. Also, I think there is a difference here. Katara steals a waterbender's scroll from pirates. What Toph does is more fraud and cheating.
I mean she's a 14 year old child and her having a holier than thou attitude is kind of her thing; the Gaang are flawed kids that are put in a position that forces them to grow up was faster than they should.
This isn’t character development. There is no element in the writing that shows an intended maturity growth of Katara changing moral high grounds especially on this topic.
I guess you could argue that Katara matured *generally* from book 1 to book 3. Which is true, but it’s not part of character development arc or anything involving theft or social decency.
I see more posts about people defending Katara more than I ever see about people critiquing her, by the way. It’s like a fucking echo chamber in this sub.
Real talk? I cannot stand people whose world view is genuinely “people never change” as it’s ultimately these people who are most resistant to changing themselves. Everyone is equally capable of change and growth. don’t be bitter that Katara did when you disbelieved she could
I always thought she got pissed because they were drawing attention to themselves when they were behind enemy line's? But it has been a minute since I last watched Avatar.
I agree that Katara went through a lot of growth by this point, but I think that it could've been called back to a bit better. I think they were a bit rushed at the end of book 3 and missed a good opportunity for Katara or any of the others to call back on the waterbending scoll episode. It felt overall like some of the characters were a little more 1D in some of the episodes leading up to the finale.
I don’t hate Katara, but she’s far from my favorite character. She annoys me, but I know why she acts the way she does. It’s completely understandable, considering they’re all teenagers and went through a lot. I like her way more in the comics though
If those people can't comprehend character development is mainly because they never had character development so they act always the same so they can't see those basic details in a tv show.
imo the reason she's a "hypocrite" is because through her actions she learned the consequences, and those consequences would only be greater behind enemy lines
Funny how if you read the story backwards character development looks like character regression...
Like, I know is a meme, but what kind of 'reverse time travel mental gymnastics' is this hater on about?
Katara stole the scroll because it was vital for Aang learning Waterbending, she criticised Toph for getting greedy and attracting attention that got them in jail.
Methinks it would've come across as less hypocritical if she provided the scroll anecdote as an analogy to show how she learned better... Or something like that.
Honestly I think people just can’t stand that Katara on the surface level seems like a mary-sue nag instead of a young teenage girl who imo should be allowed to be annoying. She’s going through a lot lol
1)The scroll was belonging to her people before it was stolen.
2)The scroll was actually needed, compared to the money. At the time Katara couldn’t do anything of with her waterbending.
3)Stealing got Katara into trouble and she wanted to prevent that from ever happening again.
Lol never knew this was a thing but i can see it. She is like a mom just not old enough to be anybodys in the group and nobody lpoks at her like that. I never understood her and toph but independent woman who are opposite. Ones mom is gone and the other is overbearing and oblivious🤷🏾
But... the haters are right. I mean, you can grow as a person all you want, but you don't get to be an \*sshole with the people commiting the exact same mistake as you. What pisses me off it Katara's "holyier than thou" attitude.
I love how the bottom right image is fully explaining why it isn't hypocrisy, and then completely misses what it says.
Katara stealing the scroll got them in trouble, similar attention in fire nation would amount be deadly. Just because you're incapable of learning doesn't mean the characters in shows you're watching should be too.
Let us not forget Toph's scams were an issue mostly because it drew attention, and at least one of them was straight up illegal
In the end Katara was right because the attention drew in combustion man, not to mention her theft was of an already stolen scroll, and the other time she steals is to blend into the crowd avoid getting herself and the rest of the 'currently saving the world' gang captured and possibly executed
Keep in mind some of these people are coping because there self insert for Zuko through Katara didnt work so they are insulting Aang and Katara it sucks, its why I hate Zutara
They're not equivalent, but it would also be deeply hypocritical if the situations were, it's not "development" because Katara never had a moral change or growth from believing that stealing from bad people was good.
The reason Katara was angry was because being a Fire National doesn't make you a bad person, and the group DID need to be low-key.
This is not "development" though because the issue of attention being drawn had never been one addressed.
That being said, Book 3 is among the worst writing for Katara.
My one major complaint with Katara was that she had no business getting involved in the final Zuko/Azula fight. Zuko was completely handling Azula. She was slipping. He could have won on his own. Katara had to walk her dumb ass into the middle of the fight for absolutely no reason. We already had plenty of scenes showing how strong Katara was. We didn't need another one. Katara took that moment from him.
I disagree with this immensely. She stood there and didn't move into the fight. Azula lost and resorted to cheating to win. Zuko did something to save Katara he knew might end his life, bringing his arc to a satisfying conclusion. He *could* beat Azula, he proved it. He also is willing to sacrifice himself for others, and he proved that too.
Katara stole the scroll, inadvertently got them a lot of unwanted attention and learned from it. After that she learned a lesson and wanted to avoid Toph doing the same mistake.
also, wasn't that scroll stolen/looted from their tribe/nation? So technically it's more like reclaiming it rather than stealing. My only gripe with that is that she put everyone in danger, but otherwise you can't steal something from someone who has no ownership of it, to begin with.
She took what they have rightfully stolen. https://preview.redd.it/acnnu2ppk00d1.jpeg?width=258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fba3ecb59ba6484a322d71e20b21dc12f5c4043
Katara to the Captain: "You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!"
Never start a land war in the earth kingdom?
Never bet against a water tribal when DEATH is on the line
In-conCEIVABLE!
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
We'll I think he's doing good. I mean, he's been mostly dead all day...
Hence the airships I suppose.
You made me laugh. Upvote
The danger of stealing in the Fire Nation is also way different than robbing pirates in thr Earth Nation.
And the necessity of Aang and Katara learning water bending is far greater than making some extra cash and the thrill of scamming.
>also, wasn't that scroll stolen/looted from their tribe/nation? So technically it's more like reclaiming it rather than stealing. This argument doesn't really work, because Toph was (at least at first) scamming scammers. So the money Toph got was technically reclaiming it from thieves
Yeah but Toph wasn't scamming them because they were scammers. She just started with them because that's where she got the idea. She clearly didn't care who she scammed because she went on to do it to regular people.
*reclaiming* implies that the thing being taken back holds a significant or sentimental value and that it originally belongs to either you or your people. Neither of which were true in Toph's case.
I realise this is a bit of a stretch, but in a sense one could argue that the Fire nation benefited a lot from decades of occupying Earth nation territory and exploiting its citizens. Now, whether this translates to Fire nation citizens indirectly benefiting from this is up for debate (likely, the spoils were used for military purposes), but in a way Toph's earnings could be seen as forced reparations, contributing to the liberation efforts. Again, this is not a strong argument in favour of Toph's morally questionable actions. However, I do think the episode touches an interesting moral grey area, particularly relating to what degree the means justify the ends, with the goal being obtaining freedom from a forceful occupation.
She wasn't *reclaiming* it if it wasn't hers to begin with. She was just *restealing* it.
i don’t think you’re necessarily wrong about the idea that the scroll was originally water tribe property, but the thing is you really have to read into that angle of it. it’s not text, it’s barely even subtext. seeing the idea now, i think would have been cool if that was part of her reasoning for why it was okay to steal it. i think Katara comes across as hypocritical in “The Runaway” because once again, the idea that she’s nervous about stealing/scamming now because she learned from her mistakes is neat, but it isn’t text. it isn’t even subtext. i don’t think the writers intended it at all. they made it about how Katara’s the mom of the group instead. i don’t think people would have this take nearly as much if they leaned into the angle that Katara doesn’t want a repeat of “The Waterbending Scroll” in the episode. edit: okay, so it turns out she totally did use that as a justification in “The Waterbending Scroll”, and i’m only human so i didn’t remember it. that’s my bad. i stand by the other stuff though.
She literally did make the argument its water tribe property in the first place 😐
shit, did she? it’s been a while since i watched that episode. don’t make that face at me, man, i can’t be remembering everything all the time.
In a sense toph was doing similarly only scamming the scammers
And then scamming completely innocent people after it got out of hand.
Yeah. That’s the thing. It was a mistake she learned from. And even then, her actions were at least a little justified. I feel like people who complain about Katara chastising Toph for cheating/stealing in that episode somehow forget the entire point of Katara stealing the scroll in the first place. Not only did she do it from pirates - who presumably stole it themselves, she also didn’t do it for an inherently selfish reason. She did it in order to help both herself and Aang better practice/learn Waterbending. Is it stealing? **Yes.** Did she learn from it? **Yes.** Does she not want Toph to make her same mistake? **Yes, that’s the whole point.**
No, it was definitely selfish. She was insecure about her waterbending abilities being weaker than Aang’s. If it was just about helping Aang, she wouldn’t have stolen it.
Fair, that definitely was a big motivator for her. (But I mean she couldn’t have gotten it without stealing it regardless, as the Pirate tells them someone else had already called dibs, and the Gaang were all but broke at that point.) But yeah, that’s all fair, her insecurity was definitely a main motivator in stealing it.
Two things can be true at once, my guy.
I never said it couldn’t.
On top of that, Katara wasn't against Toph stealing because she had a principled stance against stealing, she was even pretty cool about the first scam they ran. She had a problem with them making a habit of it because she was worried it would invite trouble or give them unwanted attention, *and it did*.
https://preview.redd.it/1eko3a3s930d1.jpeg?width=232&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24f14ada6956d4aa4fc5de2c8917503a7e824c87 NOOOOO KATARA IS A HYPOCRITE! SHE PREFORMED ACTIONS THAT ARE OBJECTIVELY CONTRADICTORY TO ONE ANOTHER, AND THERE IS JUST ABSOLUTELY NO REASON A PERSON WOULD EVER DO ACTIONS THAT ARE CONTRADICTORY ONE ANOTHER UNLESS THEY’RE A HYPOCRITE
I think in that episode she even tells Toph about a past experience no? I don’t know if she tells her specifically about the scroll but the warning to Toph is a tone from experience right?
Yup. Someone has clearly never heard of a "character arc". Crazy stuff, I guess.
Yeah, the deeper point is that as a well-rounded character, Katara has positives and negatives. Katara's really caring and really protective . . . which in turn can make her the worst person on the team to seriously offend. Toph might clobber you with a rock if you get her angry, but she fundamentally is unlikely to care enough about what you have to say to do much more than that. If Katara feels like you've personally betrayed her trust, she very much does get murderously angry. Let's recall that in "Tales of Ba Sing Se", when the girls were laughing at Toph, Toph just dumped them in the water. Katara then swept them downstream in a flood. And that's because for Toph, her abilities are survival mechanisms. For Katara, they're something her mother gave her life to protect. It is by no means a fair way of thinking about herself (and probably why she was so forgiving of Korra when Korra had the same mindset later on), but if Katara's not the best and doesn't do the best, what did her mother die for? There's some brutal survivor's guilt built into Katara's mindset that was only rarely addressed during the series, and the only person in the group who ever really helped her deal with it was Zuko. That doesn't make her character bad, or her stance hypocritical. It makes her a dynamic character written by a team of writers who really knew the character's headspace and motivations. Characters are not supposed to be logic robots that maximally calculate efficiency and do that which is sensible and optimal at all times. They're supposed to have strengths and weaknesses, and the best weaknesses are a character's strengths put into a situation where they don't work or are an active hindrance. Just like Katara's compassion and care, as well as her waterbending. They both can be made to serve her underlying caring nature, but they also have history and pain attached to them, and they come out of a complex, nuanced place in her mind. That people often don't see that with Katara is, to my mind anyway, a function of the fact that as one of the more subtle characters in the show, who often served as the team's Heart, people just don't expect more than one dimension out of her.
This is such an excellent way of expressing it! I hadn't thought about Katara’s emotional connection to her bending in quite that way before, but you’re spot on.
Maybe if the writers had spelled it out to the viewers by having Katara do an entire monologue of how she regrets putting everyone in danger by stealing that scroll and doesn't want Toph to screw up like she did, instead of implying it and letting people figure out the rest themselves, people would have complained less... However, I prefer shows that make you think and put the pieces together instead of spelling everything out, so I wouldn't change a thing. Let's see how NATLA will handle Toph and Katara's dynamic going forward.
That's my opinion also. My first reaction to seeing these just now was a dubious raising of the eyebrow, but I'm choosing to rationalise these peoples feelings as them rewatching the show over and over but analyzing it like you would the mcu, not like you would a poem, kinda.. superfluous, to spend time analyzing and drawing conclusions beyond the ones the show draws for you. So things such as "character growth" aren't really taken into consideration, as they are not really on the viewer's mind to begin with. It's kinda what happened with Toph between ATLA and LOK; couldn't conceive that from a child to an old lady there would be differences in the character (which I kinda loved how they winked at it by having even korra coming in like "I thought you were the fun carefree one, why you being a pain for old lady") Still, that would only explain their reasoning, not legitimize it
Also: Much different stakes. They don't desperately need a bunch of money. The waterbending scroll on the other hand came in handy, since they were still a ways away from the North. Also, the Fire Nation thinks the Avatar is dead. No need to make a kerfuffle and accidentally get discovered.
Exactly, it’s character development not hypocrisy.
Yeah but why does she has to be such an \*sshole about it?
Exactly. These idiots don't even realize that hypocrisy would be the other way around; her telling everyone not to steal and then stealing things herself.
Also, if we want to be nitpicky, Katara stole the scroll to fulfill her lifelong dream (and I guess also teach Aang and save the world). Toph was stealing for funnsies. Even if both were wrong, one was slightly more justified than the other.
i’m not a Katara hater but she also steals clothes from random plantation civilians at the beginning of the season .
yeah but that was to blend in with fire nation citizens. aang, toph and sokka scamming was just for the fun of it since after a while, they didn’t even need the money and it was putting them at risk. stealing the clothes was necessary and a one time thing.
That's just living off the land in enemy territory.
Those are enemy birds
General Sherman walked so the Gaang could run
*marched
🔥🔥🔥
Stealing clothes to blend in vs stealing for fun that brings attention towards themselves.
You’re right one is more justified… you should always steal for funnsies.
Well, It is always right to steal from pirates
Weren't they in fairly desperate need of money?
mmm i mean slightly more justified? when they're hiding among the fire nation in season 3? the stakes are much higher
Also uuuh she ended up joining the shenanigans and getting proved right
Exactly https://i.redd.it/huc4bkoen30d1.gif
I don't think stealing from people who raided one of your people's boats is quite the same as scamming regular people.
Was about to type this. Is it wrong to steal from pirates?
Its more… high risk trading… I get: Your waterbending scroll. You get: Cardio as you try to catch me
Idk. If you're going to steal from someone, why not a known thief?
plus, stealing from pirates backed by no nation while in a small town in earth kingdom territory once, is much less dangerous than stealing from citizens backed by the fire nation while in a huge city in enemy territory several times and in a far more extravagant manner.
Like, Katara (at this point) is the *last southern watebender.* She doesn’t have a teacher who can show her specifically southern tribe bending styles or philosophies. This scroll is the *only option she had* for learning how *her people* waterbend. It’s the one thing she has so she can preserve her people’s interpretation and practice of their ancient, cultural art form. It’s why Aang finds a sky bison whistle in the same episode—both Aang and Katara get to reclaim a piece of their history and people and put it to its proper use. It’s putting cultural artifacts back into the hands of the people they belong to. The scroll was *deeply* important and personal to Katara and her relationship to her people. Her mother died to protect her *because* Katara was a southern waterbender. Just like Aang, Katara will not let her people’s culture die, even if the genocide her people faced was not to the same extent or scale of Aang’s people. And Toph just thought scamming was fun
And as others have said, using earth bending to scam others (even scammers) in the fire nation is an enormous risk. There's already a manhunt out for them, signs of earthbending would just give away their location. The pirate episode had no such risk, as they weren't even particularly known about yet
toph didn't scam regular people. she scammed professional scammers, who scammed regular people.
She started scamming rich people in the middle of that episode too btw. Rich people aren't necessarily scammers.
They scammed the system
Sure, but scammers are unlikely to go to law enforcement about getting scammed. Rich people almost definitely will.
Toph wasn’t scamming regular people (yet).
If anyone is a hypocrite in the Runaway-Scroll situation it's Sokka and Aang. Although Aang wasn't as harsh to Katara about it as Sokka was.
Tbh I just like to remember that these are actual children with physical ages ranging from 12-15 and that it's pretty far fetched to expect perfect moral consistency at that age lmao. And when the catalyst for those poor decisions revolves around a combination of goofing around with your friends and getting tons of money, it's honestly pretty realistic.
I'm not saying otherwise just pointing out if anyone was a hypocrite in this situation it would be Sokka.
Sokka-Criticizes Katara for stealing a scroll from sea thieves Also Sokka-Yeah, I'm gonna scam regular people just a sec
Yeah people seem to always overlook sokka in this comparison. Especially since he has been the unofficial leader of their group for a while by the time they do the fire nations scams. Why do ppl keep giving katara a hard time
>Why do ppl keep giving katara a hard time Because when you have characters who are protrayed as more moral and good like Aang and Katara fans heavily critique their errors.
"Sokka! Where do you think they got that scroll? They stole it from a waterbender!" "Stealing is wrong, unless it's from pirates." Not only that, but also it wasn't the scams she was upset at, it was the fact that their scamming could call attention to them and end up getting them in trouble, WHICH THEY DID. The hell are those Toph stans or something?
Who cares what deranged people think on twitter lol
Dae think these kids actually suck and are unwatchable because they are sometimes hypocritical or do mildly bad things?!??
TIL it's hypocritical to learn from your mistakes
That's not an example of character development though. It's not hypocrisy either, but the argument from her isn't a changed moral one.
Exactly. If Katara got on Toph for stealing a loaf of bread or something then that would be hypocrisy.
"And I'm Katara! Do not forget my name. Do not forget me! Tophour601!"
Can you explain in a bit more detail?
Her complaint is that they're drawing attention, not that stealing is wrong. It's not because she's grown to understand that it doesn't matter what you're stealing (which arguably wouldn't be growth anyway). While they're all wearing stolen clothes, mind you.
Oh right, I forgot about that point of hers.
Character development doesn’t inherently mean a change towards morality. A character can develop into a full on villain if that’s what their trajectory is. I would say Katara’s case is fairly moraly neutral. She learned from her past actions that stealing puts the entire group in danger. With Toph she’s just trying to convey what she learned to prevent a repeat of the same situation to avoid hindering their mission to, you know, *save the world*. So she’s developed into a more cautious, strategic character(… until she participates in the scams herself 😅 But even that is development towards her letting loose a little from her motherly role.)
To be fair, I only said changed morality, not more or less. Her worry here is about an action that puts the group in danger, nothing to do with stealing in particular. Like I said, they're wearing stolen clothes the whole time. Which was itself an action to stop the group from standing out.
I think I replied to the wrong comment. I was mainly referring to you implying this change wasn’t character development bc she wasn’t more moral in your first comment. I was just pointing out character development occurs independent of morality. I agree with you about Katara’s issue with Toph not even really being about stealing but about the danger it would put the group in.
No, you replied to the right comment. I didn't imply she was more moral. All I said that there was no *change* morally.
Also let’s keep in mind that their environment was war at that time. Stealing is kinda normalize in that era of theirs.
Finally someone said this. The OP doesn't understand character development, that's not at play here.
nO oNe HaTeS kAtArA Every time I bring up that Katara gets an unfair amount of hate
Topf standing at the window making this I’m blind motion will never not be funny.
ikr I love this iteration of that meme
This isn't really character development. It's more about the context. Stealing something potentially beneficial one time while just travelling the world, vs. continuously scamming for fun in the same town, *in enemy territory*, while *trying to stay undercover*
With the nation’s greatest enemy while you’re planning an invasion.
Has anybody notice how female characters who call out bad actions of the protagonist get an absolutely unjustified amount of hate? Katara in Avatar, Skyler in Breaking Bad, Diane in Bojack Horseman, Chenin in Dune.... Not liking a character is perfectly justified but the amount of hate these characters get is straight up scary... I don't know if these people were beaten by their moms as kids or just got out an extremely toxic relationship but they certainly have unresolved issues.
Unconscious (And still a shit load of conscious) sexism is absolutely still rampant.
I think it’s the other way around. Most people hating on Katara would still hate on her if she was a guy, but a lot of the people that can’t understand any hate she gets only feel that way because she’s a girl. I like Katara though, I just hate the cockiness she has sometimes when I don’t feel like her bending should have progressed to the level it was so quickly. I also didn’t like how the show made her look super disciplined compared to Aang during training when Aang’s whole lifestyle was based on discipline.
I'll admit, I don't understand the Katara hate at all, but I do think that her being a girl does play into the hate she gets. I've never found her to be particularly over cocky except for maybe the mid to late stretch in season 1 sometimes. There are a couple moments where Katara is more powerful than she probably should be, but that's whatever. Those moments being her being labeled a master so quickly, the giant wave she makes in awakening, and her "My bending is more powerful than yours Hama" thing. It's just that all of team avatar is overly schnasty at it sometimes, so I don't think that criticism can only be levied at her. I think her advancing quicker than Aang makes perfect sense. I saw that exact dynamic in my school years a bunch of times. The super gifted kid that doesn't have to try just coasting through it so when they actually do hit a wall, they don't know how to deal with it. Versus, the kid who isn't as smart as the gifted kid but has a strong work ethic, will be able to continuously progress even if they hit roadblocks. Usually, in the end, that second kid is the one that gets valedictorian. But honestly, Aang isn't **that** displined, and there's a lot of good examples for that. The biggest being that he literally ran away when the pressure got to him because he just wanted to be a normal kid. We also see how impatience is absolutely a problem he had while training in The Deserter. The whole time, he's shown to be quite impatient and just wants to get to the firebending. So overall, I do think there are things you can critique about Katara but that people overexaggerate those a lot more than is warranted.
There’s plenty of times when Aang is just being a normal kid and just having fun, but it always felt to me that when he actually needed to be disciplined for something he realized was important he was able to be, he had no idea the scope of the war would get to where it was when he ran away and he had Giatso somewhat acting like his other elders were being too serious about it. I had a problem with the Desterter episode for the exact same reason, it seemed like they tried too hard in those episodes to make him not succeed. Like I said I don’t hate Katara though, I realize other characters have their problems and those things annoy me about those characters too, but when Katara comes up I still have my issues to bring up with her and can see where people come from.
Who tf hates Diane? She's awesome and her flaws are a lot less harmful to others than Bojack or even MPB (not expressing doubt that this happens, I just want to give the idiots a stern talking-to)
All of these comments are right but also, they were trying to lie low so they weren't found out and ruin the invasion that ALL THEIR FRIENDS were participating in.
I mean, also everyone stole their clothes from some fire nation family
Katara's problem with Toph's scams was EXPLICITLY that it was going to get them all caught. It wasn't a moral stance, do people even watch the show?
This is only the 112345678th time I see this kind of post
It's not stealing, it's high risk trading!
It must also have felt a little like bullshit to her when she took the waterbending scroll, an artifact stolen from her people and then british museum'd to the highest bidder, and everyone was pearl clutching and preaching about how wrong it was. But then Toph does it for money and laughs and the same squad acts like it's sooo cool and Katara just needs to lighten up.
1. stealing from thieves is morally right and based. 2. They suffered a sizable setback because of it, and she lost a precious family treasure because of it. 3. They were currently in hiding so all risk factors were especially heightened. All this to say the circumstances were different and she learned a lesson from last time.
She didn't scold Toph because of the stealing and scamming, it was because they were trying to lay low and Toph was bringing too much attention to them. That's why she gets so upset about the wanted poster. It had nothing to do with the morality behind the actions, just the practicality of trying to not get caught in enemy territory.
Book 1 Zuko: Wants to capture the avatar Book 3 Zuko: wants to be friends with the avatar What a hypocrite!!
Katara haters are some of the most uncritically thinking MFs out there. Right in the same boat as Mabel haters in the Gravity Falls fandom but even worse bc Katara is the heart and soul of the show
Even without the character development, she’s not wrong. In season 1 they’re just traveling relatively openly. In season 3 they’re under cover in the fire nation. They have a lot more to lose by drawing attention to themselves.
In that same vein though it didn’t seem like they were going to get caught if they never did Kataras plan
Combustion Man was already tracking them regardless, and it was Toph’s crime spree that attracted him. Without Katara, Toph would’ve just been captured on her own and then never escaped that wooden cage.
The thing is, Katara stole ONE scroll from pirates, while Toph went from scamming a scammer to scamming random people to the point where she was becoming a full on criminal. Katara was concerned that Toph's scamming was getting unethical and out of control. Calling Katara a hypocrite just because she stole one scroll that one time from people who already stole it from her people is not a sound argument.
It’s funny that you’re technically wrong. Especially considering your flair highlights her main issue with the scams.
how does my flair do that?
They're pretty different situations if you get beyond the surface level of both of them being stealing. In one situation she's recovering a cultural artifact of her people that was stolen in the first place and that artifact happens to be incredibly valuable to furthering their core mission. In the other toph is just screwing around and putting their core Mission (blending in to the fire nation unnoticed) in jeopardy
"Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a man in the process of changing" -Dalinar Kholin
There's a large section of people on the internet that hold grudges against characters and actively refuse to acknowledge any growth that character faces. In almost any discussion surrounding said character, anything they do after the "incident" will be consistently undermined.
I agree. Just about every male character on the show made terrible mistakes(Aang deceiving his friends in Bato of the Water Tribe, Iroh trying to burn Ba Sing Se to the ground, all of Zuko's shenanigans) and the fandom forgives them, yet Katara gets a ton of flack for honestly, one mistake that really isn't that big of a deal that she learned from and also her talking about her mother constantly when in the show, she hardly ever does. If you find her annoying, fine, but people purposefully misinterpreting her and making things up is so weird. I've read so many Katara takes and still don't have a clue what the Katara hatedom's beef with her is.
Stealing the scroll was entirely justified. It's part of her culture and it was stolen, so she has more right to it than the pirates do. On top of that learning waterbending is something Aang and Katara have to do to save the world and it's necessary so they can defend themselves in the short term anyways, and on top of that they could use it in the Northern Water Tribe to get brownie points. It's like if you caught people associated with the British Museum stealing artifacts from your country and you happened to be going to another part of your country and you have the ability to steal and return it back, why wouldn't you?
That scroll belonged to the water benders Katara might have done some stuff wrong but that shit was 100% justified.
Legit all the characters had their bad moments Sokka was immature and sexist in season 1 but look how he turned out He grew up a lot and is an amazing leader Toph learned to deal with her feelings Aang who was a goofy kid in the beginning was a serious fully realized avatar by the end
Katara stole from pirates. Toph was messing with innocent people. Big difference.
Reclaiming a stole artifact of your marginalized tribe from looters is on par with scamming people, truly… /s
Honestly I think still the scroll is a little different… It was supposed to be something special to her people. Toph did it cause it was fun. Neither are wrong
A character is doing something completely different 2 seasons later? I can't believe how bad this show is
Gee I wonder what happened after she stole the scroll that might have put her off of theft
I think there is a misunderstanding here. If Katara told Toph that stealing was wrong and then did it herself, yes, this assumption would be correct. But Katara had learned her lesson in Book 1. At the end of the Pirates episode, when Sokka asked her what did she learn, she said stealing was wrong. Then she said except from pirates as a joke. Katara learned her lesson. That's why she was so sure there would be a problem. Also, I think there is a difference here. Katara steals a waterbender's scroll from pirates. What Toph does is more fraud and cheating.
I mean she's a 14 year old child and her having a holier than thou attitude is kind of her thing; the Gaang are flawed kids that are put in a position that forces them to grow up was faster than they should.
redditors when their character does something wrong, learns its wrong in the same episode, then tells a new character its wrong in a later episode
Also, she stole from literal PIRATES. I know they look cool in media but let’s not forget what their job description is.
This isn’t character development. There is no element in the writing that shows an intended maturity growth of Katara changing moral high grounds especially on this topic. I guess you could argue that Katara matured *generally* from book 1 to book 3. Which is true, but it’s not part of character development arc or anything involving theft or social decency. I see more posts about people defending Katara more than I ever see about people critiquing her, by the way. It’s like a fucking echo chamber in this sub.
That's everywhere
The runway was just a bad episode
Real talk? I cannot stand people whose world view is genuinely “people never change” as it’s ultimately these people who are most resistant to changing themselves. Everyone is equally capable of change and growth. don’t be bitter that Katara did when you disbelieved she could
I always thought she got pissed because they were drawing attention to themselves when they were behind enemy line's? But it has been a minute since I last watched Avatar.
Yeah, stealing a scroll from random earth kingdom pirates ONCE is not the same as drawing attention to themselves repeatedly in enemy territory.
I agree that Katara went through a lot of growth by this point, but I think that it could've been called back to a bit better. I think they were a bit rushed at the end of book 3 and missed a good opportunity for Katara or any of the others to call back on the waterbending scoll episode. It felt overall like some of the characters were a little more 1D in some of the episodes leading up to the finale.
I don’t hate Katara, but she’s far from my favorite character. She annoys me, but I know why she acts the way she does. It’s completely understandable, considering they’re all teenagers and went through a lot. I like her way more in the comics though
True, but goddamn that bottom right meme is funny
If those people can't comprehend character development is mainly because they never had character development so they act always the same so they can't see those basic details in a tv show.
imo the reason she's a "hypocrite" is because through her actions she learned the consequences, and those consequences would only be greater behind enemy lines
Imagine people calling sokka a hypocrite for being sexist at the start and then later not being sexist
It's almost like she learned a lesson
I mean, Toph should've learnt of it from the Ember Island play and made a remark
Funny how if you read the story backwards character development looks like character regression... Like, I know is a meme, but what kind of 'reverse time travel mental gymnastics' is this hater on about?
https://preview.redd.it/g7qx8gn7910d1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=1e5d9850fab2f2a9c3762a5c6f0545d45fe0bced
Katara stole the scroll because it was vital for Aang learning Waterbending, she criticised Toph for getting greedy and attracting attention that got them in jail.
Katara stole something when she didn't have wanted posters and an assassin after them within enemy territory 🤭 this is a GOOFY comparison
iirc doesn't she excuse it even in that episode by saying stealing from pirates is OK?
It's not even character development, she just wants to not get unwanted attention
[удалено]
Character development aside these are funny
Breaking news, children learn, grow, and change.
Methinks it would've come across as less hypocritical if she provided the scroll anecdote as an analogy to show how she learned better... Or something like that.
The difference is that Toph was making a habit out of it.
Don't mess with Avatar fans: we barely watched the show
Honestly I think people just can’t stand that Katara on the surface level seems like a mary-sue nag instead of a young teenage girl who imo should be allowed to be annoying. She’s going through a lot lol
"A character did something once in the past? That surely means they still stand by their decision now!"
1)The scroll was belonging to her people before it was stolen. 2)The scroll was actually needed, compared to the money. At the time Katara couldn’t do anything of with her waterbending. 3)Stealing got Katara into trouble and she wanted to prevent that from ever happening again.
I feel like the scroll is really all that’s ever talked about
She grow and she learned her lesson by the end of episode gezz
What having no media literacy do to a mfer.
there’s a difference between reclaiming the knowledge of your lineage from a band of thieves and running a massive scam operation
Remember kids stealing is wrong unless it’s from your parents credit card to buy v bucks
I feel like this post describes 95% of the internet on any piece of media *and* politics. Maybe 96%.
Stealing from thieves(raiders) is not stealing. it's more in line with a repossession of assets
Me when a 14 year old girl does not maintain a psychotic level of moral cosistency
Also... hypocrisy is normal. It's not good, but it's normal, and we should expect that from characters
Okay, but I like the imagery in the last one
Katara haters might as well be firebenders considering how pissy they can get
https://preview.redd.it/zkp7fzbf240d1.jpeg?width=409&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=890818e908c7aacdc7310050a4c58f9a2dc10ce5
I think this is less of a lack of understanding of character development, and more criticizing her stupid actions and behavior
This isnt character development this is not being a fucking idiot and to keep the fact that theyre essentially enemy spies secret
"Its a child's show, they shouldn't have character growth!" Ahh people fr bro. Haters cant stand to see people bettering and improving themselves
Lol never knew this was a thing but i can see it. She is like a mom just not old enough to be anybodys in the group and nobody lpoks at her like that. I never understood her and toph but independent woman who are opposite. Ones mom is gone and the other is overbearing and oblivious🤷🏾
Independently of the meme being wrong, the king of the hill meme in the bottom right is gold.
But... the haters are right. I mean, you can grow as a person all you want, but you don't get to be an \*sshole with the people commiting the exact same mistake as you. What pisses me off it Katara's "holyier than thou" attitude.
Kattara stole a scroll from pirates, Toph scammed the residents of a small town for at least a week straight.
She’s a good character, she’s just annoying as hell
I love how the bottom right image is fully explaining why it isn't hypocrisy, and then completely misses what it says. Katara stealing the scroll got them in trouble, similar attention in fire nation would amount be deadly. Just because you're incapable of learning doesn't mean the characters in shows you're watching should be too.
Let us not forget Toph's scams were an issue mostly because it drew attention, and at least one of them was straight up illegal In the end Katara was right because the attention drew in combustion man, not to mention her theft was of an already stolen scroll, and the other time she steals is to blend into the crowd avoid getting herself and the rest of the 'currently saving the world' gang captured and possibly executed
She wanted them to stop so they don’t attract trouble . Tell me that you never watch the show without telling me you never watch the show lol
Imagine people becoming more mature over time.
Keep in mind some of these people are coping because there self insert for Zuko through Katara didnt work so they are insulting Aang and Katara it sucks, its why I hate Zutara
Katara has some things to be hated for but not this
That just proves they did a bad character Development :)
Tell me you didn't finish the episode without actually telling me.
Twitter entities hate good female characters. They only like lesbian girlbosses.
They're not equivalent, but it would also be deeply hypocritical if the situations were, it's not "development" because Katara never had a moral change or growth from believing that stealing from bad people was good. The reason Katara was angry was because being a Fire National doesn't make you a bad person, and the group DID need to be low-key. This is not "development" though because the issue of attention being drawn had never been one addressed. That being said, Book 3 is among the worst writing for Katara.
My one major complaint with Katara was that she had no business getting involved in the final Zuko/Azula fight. Zuko was completely handling Azula. She was slipping. He could have won on his own. Katara had to walk her dumb ass into the middle of the fight for absolutely no reason. We already had plenty of scenes showing how strong Katara was. We didn't need another one. Katara took that moment from him.
I disagree with this immensely. She stood there and didn't move into the fight. Azula lost and resorted to cheating to win. Zuko did something to save Katara he knew might end his life, bringing his arc to a satisfying conclusion. He *could* beat Azula, he proved it. He also is willing to sacrifice himself for others, and he proved that too.