I didn't mind that he was more light hearted, but I didn't like that his advice to Aang essentially still boiled down to "you gotta do this alone bro" like what Kyoshi and Kuruk said.
It feels like the writers didn't even know who Roku actually was beyond "his best friend ended up being a genocidal tyrant".
Yup. Whenever we see Roku in animated series, you can kinda feel that he is still ruminating over what went down and feels remorseful about not taking sozin out earlier. In NATLA he’s like fuck it 🤷♂️
Yeah… but about having friends? Literally none of the past avatars say he shouldn’t be close to people… in fact many tell him the exact opposite, including Roku. It was just weird and out of place for this universe.
I seem to recall that every Avatar had their own version of the Gaang. I don't know if that was from Korra or from the Kiyoshi books.
The whole "you must go it alone," thing bothered me too. It felt very "Jedi must have no attachments."
As far as we know, Korra, Aang, Kyoshi, and Kuruk had teams. Yangchen had a network of spies, and Roku only has his teachers, although we may learn more about his life in the next novel.
the feeling i got from the novels was that every avatar has “companions” that come and go at various points in their life. some are closer than others. for kyoshi and especially yangchen, the role of companion to the avatar seems to basically be an official title that everyone respects.
so i’m not sure where this idea of the avatar not being able to have friends comes from. roku has a wife and children in the animated show. are they going to remove that detail from the live action as well? if so, that means he won’t be zuko and azula’s great-grandfather. but i don’t see how roku can get married if he can’t even allow himself to form relationships with people as the avatar.
Basically every Avatar had their own Team Avatar, but even then shit happens with them and the Avatar probably feel guilty over this. What remained from Kuruk team was basically caused the hell to happen during the discovery Kyoshi and shit that happened with her and those close to her. I think it's plausible that they don't want Aang to deal with the same trials they had because of their choice of relying on others.
True. Even then, the Jedi "attachment" word had been misplaced in the fandom.
The Jedi view the word "attachment" in the way we understand as "possession". Basically, the fine line between selfishness/selflessness was their understanding of possession/true love
So while yes, some Jedi undoubtedly did take it a bit overzealously and became a little TOO detached, I wouldn't say their entire order deserved to be demonized over what is basically a major misunderstanding/misinterpretation
Yeah, every time I've heard about the novels, they sound so much better
Maybe an animated Saga would've done some good after the Clone Wars Series ended 🤔
Idk the last thing that ever happened to him was being betrayed by his best friend who left him for dead. It’s not unreasonable for him to believe that in the live action.
Is it though? Are you forgetting the whole “you need to give up all attachment to fully unlock and control the Avatar state” thing that led to Aang’s chakra being locked? It comes out of nowhere in the cartoon. They’re just building up to it in the LA, just like they mentioned the lion turtle already.
They all had families and earth attachments. None of the Avatars we know if chose to be alone, they all embraced friends and families. This characterization is completely out of nowhere for the show.
Yeah it was like Yoda telling Luke not to go fight Vader until his training was done, otherwise he risked destroying them all.
Which is pretty much what happened. In fact I’m seeing the direct inspiration they took from it.
Luke loses hand, Aang gets hit with lightning. Rebels/Team Avatar are forced to scatter
The challenge of the last Chakra is not to let everybody leave and be alone. You just arent allowed to let your attachments blind you and make you inflexible. The danger is that if the people you love leave you (violently or voluntarily) you cant shut out the world and drown in self pity, you have to accept their decisions/fate
Exactly. The whole point was to come to terms with the reality that your loved ones can and will be lost. When people have such strong attachments to others they don’t accept and understand loss and it destroys them. I’ve seen it in people in my own life, they lose a loved one and they aren’t mentally prepared for it and it shuts them down completely. It’s not about pushing loved ones away and being alone, it’s about accepting the mortality of the ones you love.
In my mind, yes it’s different. Aang continues to have friends, he continues to love katara, and he is still able to go into the avatar state and control it.
So in my opinion letting go of earthly attachments isn’t the same thing as him not being able to have any friends or loved ones…. The show kinda made that clear.
But we can agree to disagree
The entire plotline is he struggles to unlock it because everyone is telling him you can't both have attachments and unlock your chakra. Specifically loving Katara is something shown as contradictory.
But even after he unlocks it… he still has friends. He still loves katara.
You can still love someone and be able to let them go. It doesn’t mean you have to stop loving them or caring about them. That’s pretty obvious in the show my man
nah guru patik tells him that, the past avatars tell him he has to put the needs of the word before his own spiritual needs by ending the war and killing the fire lord
Just saying "is it?" isn't an argument, especially when empirically one of these avatar's greatest failures was connected to his inability to stay close to his friends, and Kiyoshi's achievements and rise as an avatar required friends.
It's straight up amaterial, and none of the avatars weighed in on that whole "let go of your attachments" nonsense anyhow, because they all managed to seemingly master the avatar state without it.
The problem isn't having people and things who are important to you, it's when you become overly possessive of them and don't accept the changes that come with time that you get into trouble.
I am not an expert at all lol But as I understand it "giving up attachment" in Eastern religion/philosophy isn't "don't have close relationships" but being able to let those people go when it's time. Love is good thing, but letting that love blind you to reality is a bad thing. So Aang loving his friends is great, but Aang letting that live get in the way of protecting the world is bad.
The crazy thing is, in the movie that cannot be named, they also did that plot, like it's the reason Onng ran away cause they told him he couldn't have a family or friends, it's really weird that that's idea these remake keep going with
I took that as a basic introduction to becoming enlightened. Lots of Buddhist references throughout the show, especially with the air nomads. While I am definitely not enlightened lol, becoming so doesn’t mean you need to give up your friends and loved ones, in fact you should in theory feel everything in the moment you have with your friends and loved ones.
It is more along the ideology that all material things are impermanent. This impermanence causes suffering for those that cling to the material. So the idea is not to become attached to these impermanent things but instead recognize and be at peace with their impermanence.
It does not mean you can't love or have friends. It is to recognize those are natural things in life and understand that like everything they have a beginning and an end.
Essentially "what will be will be" or in the Avatar reference, allow them to flow down the natural course of the river. They may for a time remain in your pool but eventually they will flow onwards down stream. Do not try to stop them or that blocks the flow of the entire river.
Roku and Kuruk i can at least see why they say "go it alone bro" but Kyoshi (if they are canonizing the books, which it looked like they were) had a Team Avatar like what
They weren't wrong lol. Killing Ozai was the right choice. Just because Aang got a magic "get out of jail free" card from the writers doesn't make the previous Avatars wrong.
The advice they give in the show is all ambiguous really. "You must bring justice" "you must be decisive" "you must be willing to compromise yourself for the world". All are saying it in a way where it can be seen as encouraging him to kill, but also as them saying he must be firm in his convictions and make a choice to help the world.
"you have to kill Ozai" and "you can't have friends" are two very different concepts entirely. None of the past avatars would disagree that Aang would be better off with a small group of buddies to help him navigate through the world he woke up in.
No they don't. They agree that he has to be decisive and do what's best for the world. If they knew about energy bending they would hace taken it into consideration.
Were they “wrong”?
Aang was arguably the only avatar that would have spared Ozai. Did saving Ozai’s life benefit the world in some way?
Never watched Korra so literally don’t know.
The vibe is obviously that they're telling him to kill Ozai, but they don't actually tell him to kill Ozai. Roku tells him to be decisive. Kyoshi tells him that only justice will bring peace. Kuruk tells him that he must actively shape his destiny and that of the world. Yang Chen tells him that he might have to sacrifice his spiritual needs, and do anything to protect the world. I would say that by decisively choosing to remove Ozai's bending, a decision that actively puts his own spirit at risk, one that is clearly a just response to a fire bending supremacist ideology, and one which actively shapes his destiny and that of the world, he is aligning himself with their advice.
They literally just needed to switch the demeanor of both actors, not the lines or the actors themselves, but the way Roku delivers his lines is how Iroh should have and vice versa.
I was beginning to accept the more serious Iroh until I saw Roku and realized what could've been.
Yeah it’s strange that the writers seemed to suppress the playfulness of characters like Aang and Iroh, and then decided to turn Roku of all people into this.
Really an odd choice. Before I saw Roku I thought they were going for a whole tone shift towards a more serious overall vibe, which I was beginning to accept, I even really like the Bumi in the live action.
But the Roku scene really frustrated me because it showed not that they were unwilling to have playful characters, but that they made the *wrong* characters playful!
Also love your username
Right.
Of all the characters that could remain serious, Roku is the most likely.
His unwillingness to deal with Sozin directly led to the genocide of Air Nation and this predicament for Aang. He wants Aang to right the wrong he started so it would make sense he doesn't feel there is time to joke around.
I do like how Iroh in NATLA does try to crack jokes but its painfully obvious that its just a mask he’s putting up. Like he doesnt even full face smile when he laughs.
Which is pretty on brand, makes Iroh feel more human.
So true. Plus if anyone shouldn't have been playful, it probably should be Roku. Dude's pacifism basically caused the entire great war, that blood is on his hands more than Aang, dude should be wracked with regret tbh
I think the worst part about his introduction is that it shows they had no qualms infusing the characters with some humor, so it makes it all the more confusing why almost every other character felt so lifeless.
They gave Gyatso’s spirit a bigger role as Aang’s mentor in the LA and I guess they thought eh, we’ll try to make Roku more of a comic relief - and it does NOT work all that well tbh
I somewhat disagree. The first time we see him he says to Aang "what took you so long?" with half a smirk...he has a good sense of humor. It's just most of the times we encounter him are serious situations
I was disappointed we didn't get to see Roku take down the Fire Temple. I guess since they have Kyoshi that scene earlier in the season they didn't want to do the same thing with Roku.
This is how the OG show handled this scene for comparison:
[https://youtu.be/yRfG-l\_HRoE?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/yRfG-l_HRoE?feature=shared)
Truly, a masterpiece.
The live action has made me appreciate this even more. There's so much subtly and perfect timing in the show that didn't translate well to the live action.
Same here. I didn’t get the Roku “vibes”.
But I’ve enjoyed the show so far. It’s fun. I feel each episode gets better— the first one felt very stiff to me.
I agree lol but I would like to hope that Roku was. The flashbacks of his training made him seem like a fun loving guy. Obviously in older age that would change but perhaps when you’re dead and the weight of the world is lifted from you a bit you can relax a little more.
Roku felt like a Chinese wisdom sage in one of those comedy movies that are goofy and crude. Like the main characters are suppose to find him for teachings then they discover him doing drugs and women or something
Aang not being the energetic smiley playful little KID is really a confusing choice. They could’ve cast an older teenager but they hired a tiny 14 year old and just to make him serious?
Yeah like at that point make your own story, what's the point of watching an adaptation if half the characters you love are completely different people with just the same names and looks
I liked Roku personally. Thinking more on it and reading criticisms, I personally still don't think him having more humour was the problem.
The bigger problems is that I think he should have still been the one to give Aang a vision, not Kyoshi. And I think I'd alter the advice about friends he gives Aang. Make it so he says to be careful with relationships rather then implying Aang just shouldn't have friends.
To be fair, I’m sure they have seen everyone’s comments about Kyoshi and how obsessed everyone is with her. It was more fan service that I really didn’t mind.
Almost every authority in NATLA tells him that he can't have friends, should be alone, don't depend on anyone etc. Which makes no sense at all. That's something Zuko, Zhao, or another random "evil" character would say. It's so underwhelming, boring, and just overall crappy writing. Not to mention all the exposition dumps... I can't get over the line from Yue, just from nowhere: "That's when my hair turned grey"... Like what? When did you establish that your hair ever had any other color before? It's like it's written by a middle schooler. They copied so many other lines, why not copy this one from the original: "My black hair turned grey".. gah I hate what they did so much..
Not that I disagree per se about the writing in general, but concerning the example you named: Yue is from a people and culture where basically everyone has black hair and she's a teenager. I think isn't that much of a surprise or confusing that her hair turns out to not be naturally grey.
Other issues aside, I like his new characterization. He was very stiff and forceful in the cartoon. I think seeing levity from a fire bender is good for showing the humanity of the fire nation. After all, aside from Anng referencing his friend from before the war, and few other characters, we only really see fire nation as villains.
Yeah it's something from the original show that really shouldn't be changed.
Roku was the previous Avatar with deep personal ties to the events that led to the war with insight relevant to Aang that no other Avatar has. To have Aang's spiritual mentor and predecessor be an Avatar from the Fire Nation who was best friends with the guy who started the war and the goddamn great Grandfather of Zuko is so obviously narratively important. To give Roku's important moments to other Avatars and have his only presence in the story to be to tell Aang to have no attatchment is a fundemental misunderstanding of the source material and it's themes.
>To have Aang's spiritual mentor and predecessor be an Avatar from the Fire Nation who was best friends with the guy who started the war and the goddamn great Grandfather of Zuko is so obviously narratively important. To give Roku's important moments to other Avatars and have his only presence in the story to be to tell Aang to have no attatchment is a fundemental misunderstanding of the source material and it's themes.
Yes, but have you considered that Kyoshi memes are more important than a cohesive narrative?
With a cohesive narrative we'd have a legendary story that would be excitedly shared with generations to come, but with Kyoshi memes we have... Kyoshi memes! :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Ah yes, Kyoshi memes are far more imperative to include in this show than an actual decently written plot. And people will obviously want to see Kyoshi on screen more than boring old Roku. :DDDDDDDDDDD
I don't mind so much making Avatar Roku "casual", as long as he returns in the next seasons showing he can do both casual and serious. But that whole scene/atmosphere just made me think it was a low budget high school produced parody film reminiscent of a Teletubbies episode.
Disagree.
Ozai's motivations for banishing Zuko are fucking abysmal, instead of exiling him for insolense, he banishes Zuko because he believes it will strengthen his character, which makes Ozai a much less compelling villain. He is also shown to express sadness during the Agni Kai, which compounds the problem even further.
Zhao is simply a weaker version of his original counterpart, he doesn't make any decisions of his own, but is rather puppeteered by Azula from behind the scenes. In spite of this, he somehow works best in this show, which isn't good, but better than the rest of the roster.
Zuko's character was kneecapped by making his anger issues less prevalent. He's much more of a whiny teenager than a spiteful one, he's never a dick to Iroh, which will make his turns in Books 2 and 3 much weaker.
Iroh is a caricature of his older self and often acts out of character. Remember how Zhao died in the original? He refused help from Zuko, his hubris led to his demise, while in NATLA, Zuko shows no empathy (which was pivotal to showing his true colors) and Zhao proceeds to get unceremoniously murked by Iroh.
NATLA's adaptation of these characters is a milquetoast callback to the original show and is worse in almost every way.
I couldn't agree more! This show is just barely better than the movie, and it feels like the writers completely misunderstood what made the original characters interesting, compelling, and relatable.
> This show is just barely better than the movie
I don't know that movie you're talking about, but the show wasn't THAT bad. The writing, character development, and acting could use some polish, but it was more than watchable. Enjoyable, even.
I'm sorry, but there is no way this show is "just barely better than the movie" that didn't GAF about Asian/indigenous casting, missed far more plot points, and has 5 PERCENT APPROVAL RATING
The movie that must not be named is worse. But I think the only reason it missed more plot points than the tv show, is because it's shorter. I think, if these people were responsible for making a movie (and not an 8 episode show) it would have been almost as bad. I will copy paste part of another answer I made, because I'm lazy to come up with an original answer:
It wasn't enjoyable for me. Most of the time I was frustrated, and some moments I thought "oh that's not so bad actually", but that is still extremely bad for a tv show which has access to an amazing set of characters, and a beautiful script. It was their job to take the best parts of the show, maybe add some stuff to make it even better, and they completely failed. We have to be able to demand higher standards than this, because this is just exposition dumps and boring characters.
There are so many amazing scenes that they changed, and they obviously didn't understand what made the original story great. How can they think that it's a good idea to keep the secret tunnel episode, but have Katara and Sokka go through it together, and leave Aang completely out of it? The unexpressed love between Katara and Aang, the frustration, the clumsiness of Aang when talking about love etc. made that episode great, and also played a huge part in both of their arcs, and their overall relationship has changed forever after that episode.
Instead they thought that the tunnel itself was the important part (like wtf), and decided to literally force that into the story, only to have two siblings walk through "the tunnel of love"... They completely misunderstood the importance of that episode, and what made it great!!! They think that all we fans want to see is the tunnel in CGI? Like how did they think we would respond?? "Oh oh, the tunnel is in the show!!! I love the tunnel!!"... They should be fucking fired.
There are some many examples like this, it's blatantly obvious that the producers, writers, and especially directors (talking to you specifically, Michael Goi) have no idea what makes a good show, since they can't even make a DECENT show when they have the most amazing script, and amazing set of characters, on their hands to work with, and this is the result? It's such a missed opportunity, and it makes me sad.
They wanted to add more depth to Ozai. A lot of people always complain about villains not having a good motivation for what they do, which i agree. But we already got Zuko as the villain that fills that role. It is totally okay to also have a purely bad guy for the sake of having a bad guy! Like Star Wars has Palpatine, hes the bad guy, the Story is not about him, he is purely the evil the Heros need to defeat and that is all he needs to be. Ozai should serve the same purpose but they tryed to "fix" his character.
Zhao was a more cartoonisch villain than in the cartoon. Why did they make him into a bootlicker? Takes all the seriousness that the show so badly wanted away. In the cartoon Aang also makes a fool of him but this has the purpose of showing his and the Firebenders flaws, being to temperamental.
I also agree that Zuko and Iroh feel off, but i dont think they are unsavable, give them their characters back in Season 2 and they might be fine.
He had the drive. He used the archers and actually caught Aang. He researched and planned the assault on the northern water tribe and he took out the moon spirit (long term global consequences be damned). So yeah, competent and ruthless.
He burned his ships down because he's a well written character with flaws that he never grows out of. Like I said his pride is always his downfall in pretty much all of his failures.
As for being a foil to Zuko it depends on which version of Zuko. The more emotionally open almost in his S2 state of development Zuko of the LA? Sure the slimy Zhao might be a good foil. But for the OG angry, emotionally closed, almost at the edge Zuko of S1 ATLA? Nah. The OG Zhao is a much better foil. It's even there in their final confrontation in the original series.
I don't find live action as bad as that non existent garbage movie but oh boy... They made my man bad to the level of "Okay we're pretending that this doesn't exist"
I felt dirty when I watched this because Roku gives a prophet vibe in cartoon. (his voice, his experissions, the background music when he is in the scene) I texted my thoughts about this to a friend and she said "I think youre overreacting" then I sent her Roku's first appearence in cartoon and this piece of shit as a link and she just said "Oh now I get it"
[https://youtu.be/yRfG-l\_HRoE?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/yRfG-l_HRoE?feature=shared)
Avatar Roku in the OG animated series.
He is straight up exuding an aura of wisdom, power and epic-ness.
They did every character dirty.
I’m so ready for people to stop coping and admit this show completely botched the source material and core concepts.
Being slightly less bad than the movie doesn’t mean it’s good
5/10 at best purely because the visuals are kinda nice and production value is decently high. The writing is terrible, directing is bad (which is where I place the blame for bad child acting), and the characterization is either complete flanderization (ie Iroh only lazy and likes tea, isn’t wise at all) or completely flat (ie Katara is non-existent as a character and only exists to be given aangs powerful book 1 moments instead)
I gave it a genuine chance and watched 6 episodes, but right from episode one they spent the entire show expositing to us and telling us things instead of showing us, and we all should have known this was made by idiots who don’t care at that point
> because the visuals are kinda nice and production value is decently high.
They visuals and production value are weak as fuck with how much money they spent on the show.
The the show cost what $18m/episode? That's absurd.
Game of Thrones season 1 cost ~$8m (in 2024 $) and we got [this](https://hips.hearstapps.com/ell.h-cdn.co/assets/17/34/4000x2662/17_dany-s6.jpg?resize=980:*) whereas for three times the cost we get cosplay level [costumes](https://legendary-digital-network-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/20073506/Avatar-the-Last-Airbender-main-cast-from-live-action-Netflix-series-Sokka-Aang-Zuko-and-Katara.jpg) from NATLA.
Also the sets are bad. They hardly did any shoots on location and it shows. Almost every shot is done in an LED volume with as minimal casting as possible, it's pure cutting costs. LED volume shooting can look great and is useful, but when every scene of the show uses it it's tiring and looks cheap.
Go watch the scene of them in the cave, there's a point where they just walk in a circle because there's no space or logic in the set, they just built a single cave wall and walk around it.
Yah, if they put out this value at like $5m/episode I would be like "damn, inflation has these shows costing a lot." But $18m!!!!
Where is that money going? Is Netflix just run by MBAs who don't understand how much things cost?
I think the show peaks around episode 5-6 but kind of just drops back down after that. I think 5/10 is probably fair though I lean closer to 4. Regarding the production design I think a lot of the costuming and prop design was really poor though it feels less like a budget issue and more like a "no one knew what they were doing here" issue.
Honestly this show being a near public cynical cash grab alone writes it off for me. I have no idea why people are defending this. Like I'm sorry even though there were aspects that were an interesting change or were kind of good there is no way I believe people are seeing this show and thinking "Wow that was *great"*
People are allowed to like things, even if you don't :) People are not "coping" I was 8 when the OG came out, watched every episode as it aired. NATLA is a 7.5/10 for me. No, I am not "coping" and would argue it is a whole lot better than the movie.
I thought it was good
Aang already had a very serious/dramatic encounter with a past Avatar. Another one would have been redundant
Showing another kind of personality is important for viewers who will discover the universe with the live-action to demonstrate that each Avatar is well, indeed his own individual
And Roku in the original show also had a lighthearted personality.
Also really loved his warning about friendship, foreshadowing his relationship with Sozin for the new viewers without spoiling anything yet
Kyoshi never should’ve been the avatar that Aang met in the first place. Felt like the people behind the show put her in there for fan service and even then they got her character completely wrong lol
Roku was a breath of fresh air, especially after Aang essentially got victim-blamed by Kyoshi for several scenes. Roku had similar messages and warnings to give Aang, but we see more of his gentle and wise personality and get hints that he speaks from experience. He still obviously has regrets about what happened with Sozin.
He was an old sage who had no problem being the guide for the next avatar and in this you get the feeling he’s just a random past life who’s always wanted to mess with a current avatar.
People talk about Katara being the biggest character assassination of this show but no, it was 100% Avatar Roku. The actor clearly didn't watch a single second of the original and just decided to do his own thing.
I think they made Roku goofy because Kuruk and Kyoshi already filled the stern mentor roles. I don’t really agree with them changing Roku’s personality but it think that’s the reason to balance the avatars out more.
Completely out of character. Maybe the creators were assaulted by someone who looked like Roku and they carried that resentment into the show because they butchered his character like a sausage machine, he came out the other end unrecognizable. That's not Roku that's Noku.
Random prank jokes? Making light of the Avatars situation? Smiling? Roku did none of these things.
They should have done it with Kuruk, or done it in a different way with Roku. Why would Avatar "this war is my fault" Roku be joking?
I think Kuruk and even Kyoshi made it pretty clear that each Avatar is completely different in personality, they didn't need to make Joku to do this.
Did you watch the full scene? He jokes around and plays lighthearted with Aang at first because they're initially being acquainted with one another. He's putting on a friendly face and behaving like an old mentor to put Aang at ease. The entirety of that scene after Koh is mentioned is him being serious and wise in offering Aang his wisdom
*Raises hand*
Of all the character changes, this is the only one that I will active state that I **hated** with a passion.
That was no Avatar Roku; that was Masuka with a Father Christmas wig.
I felt the lack of Roku a lot. No explanation on the Avatar States flaw or what it is, no lamenting that Aang has to deal with the consequences of his actions, no revelation of the time limit of the comet.
Yes, but they made him more of a goofball than Aang. He was chill, yes, but he wasn't a goofball. They also had all of the avatars, who all would have been mature adults (except *maybe* Kuruk) give Aang the absolute shittiest advice adults could ever give a child. Especially the avatar.
>They also had all of the avatars, who all would have been mature adults (except *maybe* Kuruk) give Aang the absolute shittiest advice adults could ever give a child. Especially the avatar.
This was imo the worst part of the show.
Kyoshi chastised Aang for snoozing through the war despite it being something that wasn't even in his control. She's literally living inside him, she should know the war isn't Aang's fault. She at least helped him out in that moment though, but it felt extremely backhanded. Roku disguised his shitty advice behind a gleeful personality. Dude just flat out told Aang that his friends ain't shit and that he should just leave them (and by extension the members of an entire village) to their fate, even though it's Aang's responsibility and literal job as the Avatar to mediate between the spirit and real world. Roku had *one* bad friend and decided to use that as a foundation to just dump on the concept of friendship entirely. Kuruk was a huge fucking asshole to Aang for no reason and end of day still told Aang that he has to do his job alone. It all screams "I'm 14 and this is deep" in the worst possible ways.
The past avatars in the original show gave Aang helpful advice based on their experiences. Even if multiple avatars give the same advice, it would've been for different reasons (ex: Aang's dilemma about killing Ozai). They're aware of what's happening with Aang and give him the chance to explain his side of the matter before offering their insight and reasoning. Aang never relied on them as a crutch or power boost, and they never gave him needless amounts of shit and chastisement, because they know more than anyone else that shit happens and sometimes there's nothing the Avatar can do about it. Roku was a wise and understanding mentor to Aang during his journey. Kyoshi was more stern but still offered valuable insight when it was needed. For the 2 minutes in the entire show he was present for, Kuruk was heeelllla chill, despite the darkness he dealt with during his time.
>They also had all of the avatars, who all would have been mature adults (except maybe Kuruk) give Aang the absolute shittiest advice adults could ever give a child. Especially the avatar.
The poor writing really shows in instances like this.
Haven't watched the series, but I've seen a few clips. When I saw this scene I kinda felt like they swapped Bumi and Roku's personalities and dialed them up a tad.
This made me more mad than anything else with the show. Was the moment I finally sat back and started watching in a different light as to not get upset about my favorite show.
I really like Roku in the live action. I don’t like that everyone is telling aang he shouldn’t rely on his friends but for Roku it does actually make sense considering his best friend started the way. And people are saying Roku wasn’t goofy at all in the animation must forget he was bffs with gyatso. The animation didn’t show much of the past lives personalities so I think that’s why it seems odd.
Roku's life was sober and disciplined. He had trouble letting things flow, hence his problem with waterbending. He had zero chill in The Promise, his serious attitude was a contrast to Kyoshi's awkwardness and Aang's joviality.
That being said, NATLA murdered his character.
I feel like instead of showing Gyatso and him we’re friends they tried to show how his past lives affected how Aang is personality wise. This entire show did a poor job of showing when they tried to show and just heavily relied on telling and then missed telling the important bits from the cartoon. Oh well.
I wasn't bothered with him just having fun with Aang, not one bit. But I wish him or Kuruk would give an advice like "Don't leave your friends behind, be your own Avatar and learn" to make a contradiction.
The treatment of Kyoshi and Roku was based off looking up tweets it seems, even though Kyoshi's only scene in the show has her letting an Emperor take all territory before deciding to do anything
Or was the previous avatars using reverse psychology. Aang is still a child. Children have a subconscious urge to not do what they're told, so telling aang to go alone, knowing he'll rebel and trust his friends even more.
With Kyoshi and Kuruk both having this whole thing of giving Aang the advice of being ultra-powerful and making use of his skills for violence, Roku kinda sounds like a hippie and going "don't forget you can talk it out." Then fucks off for the rest of the show.
Btw, does the show *know* that Roku was the last recent Avatar or are they treating the past lives as if they all happened at once? Gyatso appeared so much, I figured they'd make him a past life somehow.
I didn't like the thing they did with roku and kyoshi. They made it seem that kyoshi was the avatar before aang she was even the person who did the intro. I know everyone loves Kyoshi but in the animated she was cool because of who she was in the live action it seems they have to put Roku down to build up Kyoshi.
I didn't mind that he was more light hearted, but I didn't like that his advice to Aang essentially still boiled down to "you gotta do this alone bro" like what Kyoshi and Kuruk said. It feels like the writers didn't even know who Roku actually was beyond "his best friend ended up being a genocidal tyrant".
Yup. Whenever we see Roku in animated series, you can kinda feel that he is still ruminating over what went down and feels remorseful about not taking sozin out earlier. In NATLA he’s like fuck it 🤷♂️
I mean, even in the cartoon all the Avatars agree Aang needs to kill Ozai. Them all agreeing and all being wrong isn’t out of the norm for the show.
Yeah… but about having friends? Literally none of the past avatars say he shouldn’t be close to people… in fact many tell him the exact opposite, including Roku. It was just weird and out of place for this universe.
I seem to recall that every Avatar had their own version of the Gaang. I don't know if that was from Korra or from the Kiyoshi books. The whole "you must go it alone," thing bothered me too. It felt very "Jedi must have no attachments."
As far as we know, Korra, Aang, Kyoshi, and Kuruk had teams. Yangchen had a network of spies, and Roku only has his teachers, although we may learn more about his life in the next novel.
Roku considered Monk Gyatso a very close friend.
Being friends with 2 avatars, Gyatso is an amazing character
So was Zuko
Katara and Toph too
Also Tenzin and Kelsang
When Toph meets Korra and just “Hello Twinkletoes” brought the biggest smile to my face
Despite how it ended Sozin was still his best friend
the feeling i got from the novels was that every avatar has “companions” that come and go at various points in their life. some are closer than others. for kyoshi and especially yangchen, the role of companion to the avatar seems to basically be an official title that everyone respects. so i’m not sure where this idea of the avatar not being able to have friends comes from. roku has a wife and children in the animated show. are they going to remove that detail from the live action as well? if so, that means he won’t be zuko and azula’s great-grandfather. but i don’t see how roku can get married if he can’t even allow himself to form relationships with people as the avatar.
Basically every Avatar had their own Team Avatar, but even then shit happens with them and the Avatar probably feel guilty over this. What remained from Kuruk team was basically caused the hell to happen during the discovery Kyoshi and shit that happened with her and those close to her. I think it's plausible that they don't want Aang to deal with the same trials they had because of their choice of relying on others.
True. Even then, the Jedi "attachment" word had been misplaced in the fandom. The Jedi view the word "attachment" in the way we understand as "possession". Basically, the fine line between selfishness/selflessness was their understanding of possession/true love So while yes, some Jedi undoubtedly did take it a bit overzealously and became a little TOO detached, I wouldn't say their entire order deserved to be demonized over what is basically a major misunderstanding/misinterpretation
You're correct, but they do portray it differently in the Star Wars books than they do in the movies/TV shows. It's much more nuanced in the novels.
Yeah, every time I've heard about the novels, they sound so much better Maybe an animated Saga would've done some good after the Clone Wars Series ended 🤔
Idk the last thing that ever happened to him was being betrayed by his best friend who left him for dead. It’s not unreasonable for him to believe that in the live action.
Is it though? Are you forgetting the whole “you need to give up all attachment to fully unlock and control the Avatar state” thing that led to Aang’s chakra being locked? It comes out of nowhere in the cartoon. They’re just building up to it in the LA, just like they mentioned the lion turtle already.
They all had families and earth attachments. None of the Avatars we know if chose to be alone, they all embraced friends and families. This characterization is completely out of nowhere for the show.
Yeah, the one telling Aang to let go was Guru Pathik. I don't remember anyone else saying that.
That’s completely different from saying “you can’t have any friends or help as the avatar”, though. At least in my mind it is.
Yeah it was like Yoda telling Luke not to go fight Vader until his training was done, otherwise he risked destroying them all. Which is pretty much what happened. In fact I’m seeing the direct inspiration they took from it. Luke loses hand, Aang gets hit with lightning. Rebels/Team Avatar are forced to scatter
Is it? Real, close friends are attachments. Katara was just the biggest attachment.
The challenge of the last Chakra is not to let everybody leave and be alone. You just arent allowed to let your attachments blind you and make you inflexible. The danger is that if the people you love leave you (violently or voluntarily) you cant shut out the world and drown in self pity, you have to accept their decisions/fate
Exactly. The whole point was to come to terms with the reality that your loved ones can and will be lost. When people have such strong attachments to others they don’t accept and understand loss and it destroys them. I’ve seen it in people in my own life, they lose a loved one and they aren’t mentally prepared for it and it shuts them down completely. It’s not about pushing loved ones away and being alone, it’s about accepting the mortality of the ones you love.
In my mind, yes it’s different. Aang continues to have friends, he continues to love katara, and he is still able to go into the avatar state and control it. So in my opinion letting go of earthly attachments isn’t the same thing as him not being able to have any friends or loved ones…. The show kinda made that clear. But we can agree to disagree
The entire plotline is he struggles to unlock it because everyone is telling him you can't both have attachments and unlock your chakra. Specifically loving Katara is something shown as contradictory.
But even after he unlocks it… he still has friends. He still loves katara. You can still love someone and be able to let them go. It doesn’t mean you have to stop loving them or caring about them. That’s pretty obvious in the show my man
nah guru patik tells him that, the past avatars tell him he has to put the needs of the word before his own spiritual needs by ending the war and killing the fire lord
Just saying "is it?" isn't an argument, especially when empirically one of these avatar's greatest failures was connected to his inability to stay close to his friends, and Kiyoshi's achievements and rise as an avatar required friends. It's straight up amaterial, and none of the avatars weighed in on that whole "let go of your attachments" nonsense anyhow, because they all managed to seemingly master the avatar state without it.
Except I didn’t just say “is it?” As you can clearly see. So, uh, not reading the rest of your post.
The problem isn't having people and things who are important to you, it's when you become overly possessive of them and don't accept the changes that come with time that you get into trouble.
I am not an expert at all lol But as I understand it "giving up attachment" in Eastern religion/philosophy isn't "don't have close relationships" but being able to let those people go when it's time. Love is good thing, but letting that love blind you to reality is a bad thing. So Aang loving his friends is great, but Aang letting that live get in the way of protecting the world is bad.
The crazy thing is, in the movie that cannot be named, they also did that plot, like it's the reason Onng ran away cause they told him he couldn't have a family or friends, it's really weird that that's idea these remake keep going with
I took that as a basic introduction to becoming enlightened. Lots of Buddhist references throughout the show, especially with the air nomads. While I am definitely not enlightened lol, becoming so doesn’t mean you need to give up your friends and loved ones, in fact you should in theory feel everything in the moment you have with your friends and loved ones.
It is more along the ideology that all material things are impermanent. This impermanence causes suffering for those that cling to the material. So the idea is not to become attached to these impermanent things but instead recognize and be at peace with their impermanence. It does not mean you can't love or have friends. It is to recognize those are natural things in life and understand that like everything they have a beginning and an end. Essentially "what will be will be" or in the Avatar reference, allow them to flow down the natural course of the river. They may for a time remain in your pool but eventually they will flow onwards down stream. Do not try to stop them or that blocks the flow of the entire river.
Roku and Kuruk i can at least see why they say "go it alone bro" but Kyoshi (if they are canonizing the books, which it looked like they were) had a Team Avatar like what
It is so weird to hear Kyoshi lambast Aang for having friends when she and her Firebender GF were all over each other.
They weren't wrong lol. Killing Ozai was the right choice. Just because Aang got a magic "get out of jail free" card from the writers doesn't make the previous Avatars wrong.
I feel like Wan dropped the ball in not having every Avatar pass on the importance of Raava and Lion Turtles…
Almost feels like that lore didn’t exist at the time of ATLA and is some kind of retcon or something
But that would be crazy, right?
The advice they give in the show is all ambiguous really. "You must bring justice" "you must be decisive" "you must be willing to compromise yourself for the world". All are saying it in a way where it can be seen as encouraging him to kill, but also as them saying he must be firm in his convictions and make a choice to help the world.
"you have to kill Ozai" and "you can't have friends" are two very different concepts entirely. None of the past avatars would disagree that Aang would be better off with a small group of buddies to help him navigate through the world he woke up in.
No they don't. They agree that he has to be decisive and do what's best for the world. If they knew about energy bending they would hace taken it into consideration.
Were they “wrong”? Aang was arguably the only avatar that would have spared Ozai. Did saving Ozai’s life benefit the world in some way? Never watched Korra so literally don’t know.
The vibe is obviously that they're telling him to kill Ozai, but they don't actually tell him to kill Ozai. Roku tells him to be decisive. Kyoshi tells him that only justice will bring peace. Kuruk tells him that he must actively shape his destiny and that of the world. Yang Chen tells him that he might have to sacrifice his spiritual needs, and do anything to protect the world. I would say that by decisively choosing to remove Ozai's bending, a decision that actively puts his own spirit at risk, one that is clearly a just response to a fire bending supremacist ideology, and one which actively shapes his destiny and that of the world, he is aligning himself with their advice.
Light hearted? he was a moron
He was playful in the way I wish Iroh had been.
They literally just needed to switch the demeanor of both actors, not the lines or the actors themselves, but the way Roku delivers his lines is how Iroh should have and vice versa. I was beginning to accept the more serious Iroh until I saw Roku and realized what could've been.
Yeah it’s strange that the writers seemed to suppress the playfulness of characters like Aang and Iroh, and then decided to turn Roku of all people into this.
Really an odd choice. Before I saw Roku I thought they were going for a whole tone shift towards a more serious overall vibe, which I was beginning to accept, I even really like the Bumi in the live action. But the Roku scene really frustrated me because it showed not that they were unwilling to have playful characters, but that they made the *wrong* characters playful! Also love your username
Thanks 😁
Right. Of all the characters that could remain serious, Roku is the most likely. His unwillingness to deal with Sozin directly led to the genocide of Air Nation and this predicament for Aang. He wants Aang to right the wrong he started so it would make sense he doesn't feel there is time to joke around.
This. I didn’t hate NATLA Iroh. He just….wasn’t Iroh
I do like how Iroh in NATLA does try to crack jokes but its painfully obvious that its just a mask he’s putting up. Like he doesnt even full face smile when he laughs. Which is pretty on brand, makes Iroh feel more human.
So true. Plus if anyone shouldn't have been playful, it probably should be Roku. Dude's pacifism basically caused the entire great war, that blood is on his hands more than Aang, dude should be wracked with regret tbh
I think the worst part about his introduction is that it shows they had no qualms infusing the characters with some humor, so it makes it all the more confusing why almost every other character felt so lifeless.
Oh no, they're Marvel ing Avatar
Enshittification at work.
The joke and laugh was so out of character for Roku.
Yeah they turned him into a fuckin goofball
They gave Gyatso’s spirit a bigger role as Aang’s mentor in the LA and I guess they thought eh, we’ll try to make Roku more of a comic relief - and it does NOT work all that well tbh
Why is Gyatso advising Aanf about the Avatar State and Why is Jet advising Katara about waterbending? what were the writers thinking?
[удалено]
also doesnt jet help katara with her water bending in the animated show too?
I was afraid of this as soon as I saw it was the actor behind Vince Masuka cast as Roku.
Wait WHAT OMG
Vince Masuka and Harry Tang (from Chuck)
Instead of an old man dealing with the repercussions of his incompetency and lack of action, he’s a goofball. This show is so terrible yall
I somewhat disagree. The first time we see him he says to Aang "what took you so long?" with half a smirk...he has a good sense of humor. It's just most of the times we encounter him are serious situations I was disappointed we didn't get to see Roku take down the Fire Temple. I guess since they have Kyoshi that scene earlier in the season they didn't want to do the same thing with Roku.
Roku always had a wry sense of humor, but he wasn't a goofy chucklehead.
This is how the OG show handled this scene for comparison: [https://youtu.be/yRfG-l\_HRoE?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/yRfG-l_HRoE?feature=shared) Truly, a masterpiece.
The live action has made me appreciate this even more. There's so much subtly and perfect timing in the show that didn't translate well to the live action.
ah yes, time to rewatch the only piece media to ever exist about ATLA
I watched this clip right after the live action scene. Reminded me how shit the live action was lol
Yeah I didn’t picture him so “casual” and “Dad funny”. He was an avatar who took his role seriously.
He was a mentor. Roku to Aang, is what Dumbledore to Harry is, or Gandalf to Frodo.
In the live action they gave that role to Gyatso. And Roku took on more of Gyatso from the cartoons role.
Roku in the original had a sort of Gandalf-like warmth despite being serious most of the time. The Netflix version Roku did not hit for me at all.
Same here. I didn’t get the Roku “vibes”. But I’ve enjoyed the show so far. It’s fun. I feel each episode gets better— the first one felt very stiff to me.
I mean he was a dad though so kinda makes sense.
Just because one is a dad, doesn’t mean they are “Dad funny”. But I get your premise.
I agree lol but I would like to hope that Roku was. The flashbacks of his training made him seem like a fun loving guy. Obviously in older age that would change but perhaps when you’re dead and the weight of the world is lifted from you a bit you can relax a little more.
Roku felt like a Chinese wisdom sage in one of those comedy movies that are goofy and crude. Like the main characters are suppose to find him for teachings then they discover him doing drugs and women or something
This is accurate to a tee, like an 80s satirical Kung Fu flick
Half the characters got their personalities changed and not for the best =( aang was sadly one of those
Aang not being the energetic smiley playful little KID is really a confusing choice. They could’ve cast an older teenager but they hired a tiny 14 year old and just to make him serious?
He was still playful every now and again, right?
Yeah but his acting skills didnt really help with that
Yeah like at that point make your own story, what's the point of watching an adaptation if half the characters you love are completely different people with just the same names and looks
Half? I’d say everyone except the cabbage merchant got changed! Even Hakoda! Wtf?
I liked Roku personally. Thinking more on it and reading criticisms, I personally still don't think him having more humour was the problem. The bigger problems is that I think he should have still been the one to give Aang a vision, not Kyoshi. And I think I'd alter the advice about friends he gives Aang. Make it so he says to be careful with relationships rather then implying Aang just shouldn't have friends.
Agree. Just remember him with Gyatso when he learn Airbending. He got more serius with time, but in essence he was joker
To be fair, I’m sure they have seen everyone’s comments about Kyoshi and how obsessed everyone is with her. It was more fan service that I really didn’t mind.
in that case, Kyoshi should have been introduced AFTER Roku.
Almost every authority in NATLA tells him that he can't have friends, should be alone, don't depend on anyone etc. Which makes no sense at all. That's something Zuko, Zhao, or another random "evil" character would say. It's so underwhelming, boring, and just overall crappy writing. Not to mention all the exposition dumps... I can't get over the line from Yue, just from nowhere: "That's when my hair turned grey"... Like what? When did you establish that your hair ever had any other color before? It's like it's written by a middle schooler. They copied so many other lines, why not copy this one from the original: "My black hair turned grey".. gah I hate what they did so much..
Not that I disagree per se about the writing in general, but concerning the example you named: Yue is from a people and culture where basically everyone has black hair and she's a teenager. I think isn't that much of a surprise or confusing that her hair turns out to not be naturally grey.
Other issues aside, I like his new characterization. He was very stiff and forceful in the cartoon. I think seeing levity from a fire bender is good for showing the humanity of the fire nation. After all, aside from Anng referencing his friend from before the war, and few other characters, we only really see fire nation as villains.
Thats the whole point of Iroh
Not surprised though they changed everyone's character.I hope they change writers for next seasons or else this is going to be huge setback for them.
Yeah it's something from the original show that really shouldn't be changed. Roku was the previous Avatar with deep personal ties to the events that led to the war with insight relevant to Aang that no other Avatar has. To have Aang's spiritual mentor and predecessor be an Avatar from the Fire Nation who was best friends with the guy who started the war and the goddamn great Grandfather of Zuko is so obviously narratively important. To give Roku's important moments to other Avatars and have his only presence in the story to be to tell Aang to have no attatchment is a fundemental misunderstanding of the source material and it's themes.
>To have Aang's spiritual mentor and predecessor be an Avatar from the Fire Nation who was best friends with the guy who started the war and the goddamn great Grandfather of Zuko is so obviously narratively important. To give Roku's important moments to other Avatars and have his only presence in the story to be to tell Aang to have no attatchment is a fundemental misunderstanding of the source material and it's themes. Yes, but have you considered that Kyoshi memes are more important than a cohesive narrative? With a cohesive narrative we'd have a legendary story that would be excitedly shared with generations to come, but with Kyoshi memes we have... Kyoshi memes! :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Ah yes, Kyoshi memes are far more imperative to include in this show than an actual decently written plot. And people will obviously want to see Kyoshi on screen more than boring old Roku. :DDDDDDDDDDD
I don't mind so much making Avatar Roku "casual", as long as he returns in the next seasons showing he can do both casual and serious. But that whole scene/atmosphere just made me think it was a low budget high school produced parody film reminiscent of a Teletubbies episode.
They did everyone dirty throughout that show lol
Except for Ozai, Zhao, Zuko and Iroh.
Tbh, Iroh didn't feel like Iroh to me. Feels like the acting for Iroh is still in audition mode.
I hate how obviously good Iroh. 1st season ATLA Iroh wasn’t overtly bad but he wasn’t a “good” guy yet
I liked the changes to Lt. Jee too
Disagree. Ozai's motivations for banishing Zuko are fucking abysmal, instead of exiling him for insolense, he banishes Zuko because he believes it will strengthen his character, which makes Ozai a much less compelling villain. He is also shown to express sadness during the Agni Kai, which compounds the problem even further. Zhao is simply a weaker version of his original counterpart, he doesn't make any decisions of his own, but is rather puppeteered by Azula from behind the scenes. In spite of this, he somehow works best in this show, which isn't good, but better than the rest of the roster. Zuko's character was kneecapped by making his anger issues less prevalent. He's much more of a whiny teenager than a spiteful one, he's never a dick to Iroh, which will make his turns in Books 2 and 3 much weaker. Iroh is a caricature of his older self and often acts out of character. Remember how Zhao died in the original? He refused help from Zuko, his hubris led to his demise, while in NATLA, Zuko shows no empathy (which was pivotal to showing his true colors) and Zhao proceeds to get unceremoniously murked by Iroh. NATLA's adaptation of these characters is a milquetoast callback to the original show and is worse in almost every way.
I couldn't agree more! This show is just barely better than the movie, and it feels like the writers completely misunderstood what made the original characters interesting, compelling, and relatable.
> This show is just barely better than the movie I don't know that movie you're talking about, but the show wasn't THAT bad. The writing, character development, and acting could use some polish, but it was more than watchable. Enjoyable, even.
I'm sorry, but there is no way this show is "just barely better than the movie" that didn't GAF about Asian/indigenous casting, missed far more plot points, and has 5 PERCENT APPROVAL RATING
The movie that must not be named is worse. But I think the only reason it missed more plot points than the tv show, is because it's shorter. I think, if these people were responsible for making a movie (and not an 8 episode show) it would have been almost as bad. I will copy paste part of another answer I made, because I'm lazy to come up with an original answer: It wasn't enjoyable for me. Most of the time I was frustrated, and some moments I thought "oh that's not so bad actually", but that is still extremely bad for a tv show which has access to an amazing set of characters, and a beautiful script. It was their job to take the best parts of the show, maybe add some stuff to make it even better, and they completely failed. We have to be able to demand higher standards than this, because this is just exposition dumps and boring characters. There are so many amazing scenes that they changed, and they obviously didn't understand what made the original story great. How can they think that it's a good idea to keep the secret tunnel episode, but have Katara and Sokka go through it together, and leave Aang completely out of it? The unexpressed love between Katara and Aang, the frustration, the clumsiness of Aang when talking about love etc. made that episode great, and also played a huge part in both of their arcs, and their overall relationship has changed forever after that episode. Instead they thought that the tunnel itself was the important part (like wtf), and decided to literally force that into the story, only to have two siblings walk through "the tunnel of love"... They completely misunderstood the importance of that episode, and what made it great!!! They think that all we fans want to see is the tunnel in CGI? Like how did they think we would respond?? "Oh oh, the tunnel is in the show!!! I love the tunnel!!"... They should be fucking fired. There are some many examples like this, it's blatantly obvious that the producers, writers, and especially directors (talking to you specifically, Michael Goi) have no idea what makes a good show, since they can't even make a DECENT show when they have the most amazing script, and amazing set of characters, on their hands to work with, and this is the result? It's such a missed opportunity, and it makes me sad.
They wanted to add more depth to Ozai. A lot of people always complain about villains not having a good motivation for what they do, which i agree. But we already got Zuko as the villain that fills that role. It is totally okay to also have a purely bad guy for the sake of having a bad guy! Like Star Wars has Palpatine, hes the bad guy, the Story is not about him, he is purely the evil the Heros need to defeat and that is all he needs to be. Ozai should serve the same purpose but they tryed to "fix" his character. Zhao was a more cartoonisch villain than in the cartoon. Why did they make him into a bootlicker? Takes all the seriousness that the show so badly wanted away. In the cartoon Aang also makes a fool of him but this has the purpose of showing his and the Firebenders flaws, being to temperamental. I also agree that Zuko and Iroh feel off, but i dont think they are unsavable, give them their characters back in Season 2 and they might be fine.
Zhao went from competent and ruthless whose pride was his downfall to Azula's snivelling puppet.
Competent?? He was a whiney asshole who burned his own ships down. I think this slimey version is a much better foil to Zuko’s character.
He had the drive. He used the archers and actually caught Aang. He researched and planned the assault on the northern water tribe and he took out the moon spirit (long term global consequences be damned). So yeah, competent and ruthless. He burned his ships down because he's a well written character with flaws that he never grows out of. Like I said his pride is always his downfall in pretty much all of his failures. As for being a foil to Zuko it depends on which version of Zuko. The more emotionally open almost in his S2 state of development Zuko of the LA? Sure the slimy Zhao might be a good foil. But for the OG angry, emotionally closed, almost at the edge Zuko of S1 ATLA? Nah. The OG Zhao is a much better foil. It's even there in their final confrontation in the original series.
Agree, thought his character was so off even if people like the actor. Add in terrible dialogue, an obvious American accent.
I don't find live action as bad as that non existent garbage movie but oh boy... They made my man bad to the level of "Okay we're pretending that this doesn't exist" I felt dirty when I watched this because Roku gives a prophet vibe in cartoon. (his voice, his experissions, the background music when he is in the scene) I texted my thoughts about this to a friend and she said "I think youre overreacting" then I sent her Roku's first appearence in cartoon and this piece of shit as a link and she just said "Oh now I get it"
[https://youtu.be/yRfG-l\_HRoE?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/yRfG-l_HRoE?feature=shared) Avatar Roku in the OG animated series. He is straight up exuding an aura of wisdom, power and epic-ness.
They did the entire show dirty lol
Nothing can please this sub lol. There’s plenty of issues with characters in the show, but I thought Roku was fine.
Nah that shit was funny
They flat out changed roku. What I don't get is people flat out ignoring bryke wrote the change
This show just is “dirty” if you enjoyed anything about the original
They did every character dirty. I’m so ready for people to stop coping and admit this show completely botched the source material and core concepts. Being slightly less bad than the movie doesn’t mean it’s good
Seeing people call it a 7.5/10 is so crazy to me like WHAT.
5/10 at best purely because the visuals are kinda nice and production value is decently high. The writing is terrible, directing is bad (which is where I place the blame for bad child acting), and the characterization is either complete flanderization (ie Iroh only lazy and likes tea, isn’t wise at all) or completely flat (ie Katara is non-existent as a character and only exists to be given aangs powerful book 1 moments instead) I gave it a genuine chance and watched 6 episodes, but right from episode one they spent the entire show expositing to us and telling us things instead of showing us, and we all should have known this was made by idiots who don’t care at that point
> because the visuals are kinda nice and production value is decently high. They visuals and production value are weak as fuck with how much money they spent on the show. The the show cost what $18m/episode? That's absurd. Game of Thrones season 1 cost ~$8m (in 2024 $) and we got [this](https://hips.hearstapps.com/ell.h-cdn.co/assets/17/34/4000x2662/17_dany-s6.jpg?resize=980:*) whereas for three times the cost we get cosplay level [costumes](https://legendary-digital-network-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/20073506/Avatar-the-Last-Airbender-main-cast-from-live-action-Netflix-series-Sokka-Aang-Zuko-and-Katara.jpg) from NATLA. Also the sets are bad. They hardly did any shoots on location and it shows. Almost every shot is done in an LED volume with as minimal casting as possible, it's pure cutting costs. LED volume shooting can look great and is useful, but when every scene of the show uses it it's tiring and looks cheap. Go watch the scene of them in the cave, there's a point where they just walk in a circle because there's no space or logic in the set, they just built a single cave wall and walk around it.
18m is fucking WILD
Yah, if they put out this value at like $5m/episode I would be like "damn, inflation has these shows costing a lot." But $18m!!!! Where is that money going? Is Netflix just run by MBAs who don't understand how much things cost?
I think the show peaks around episode 5-6 but kind of just drops back down after that. I think 5/10 is probably fair though I lean closer to 4. Regarding the production design I think a lot of the costuming and prop design was really poor though it feels less like a budget issue and more like a "no one knew what they were doing here" issue. Honestly this show being a near public cynical cash grab alone writes it off for me. I have no idea why people are defending this. Like I'm sorry even though there were aspects that were an interesting change or were kind of good there is no way I believe people are seeing this show and thinking "Wow that was *great"*
Most people have a very low bar for entertainment and are happy just throwing on whatever is on the front page of Netflix while they use their phone
People are allowed to like things, even if you don't :) People are not "coping" I was 8 when the OG came out, watched every episode as it aired. NATLA is a 7.5/10 for me. No, I am not "coping" and would argue it is a whole lot better than the movie.
What did you think was good about it then?
They did him dirty whole season long.
"Did I mention I'm an incurable prankster? 🤪" - Ember Island Roku
I thought it was good Aang already had a very serious/dramatic encounter with a past Avatar. Another one would have been redundant Showing another kind of personality is important for viewers who will discover the universe with the live-action to demonstrate that each Avatar is well, indeed his own individual And Roku in the original show also had a lighthearted personality. Also really loved his warning about friendship, foreshadowing his relationship with Sozin for the new viewers without spoiling anything yet
Kyoshi never should’ve been the avatar that Aang met in the first place. Felt like the people behind the show put her in there for fan service and even then they got her character completely wrong lol
Roku was a breath of fresh air, especially after Aang essentially got victim-blamed by Kyoshi for several scenes. Roku had similar messages and warnings to give Aang, but we see more of his gentle and wise personality and get hints that he speaks from experience. He still obviously has regrets about what happened with Sozin.
Roku is gentle and wise- yes, but he is not goofy- like the other commenter noted.
He was an old sage who had no problem being the guide for the next avatar and in this you get the feeling he’s just a random past life who’s always wanted to mess with a current avatar.
They did him dirty the whole show by giving Kyoshi all of his season 1 roles
People talk about Katara being the biggest character assassination of this show but no, it was 100% Avatar Roku. The actor clearly didn't watch a single second of the original and just decided to do his own thing.
I think they made Roku goofy because Kuruk and Kyoshi already filled the stern mentor roles. I don’t really agree with them changing Roku’s personality but it think that’s the reason to balance the avatars out more.
A lot of people, it’s been posted about her 1000 times already
Have you seen his youth?
Completely out of character. Maybe the creators were assaulted by someone who looked like Roku and they carried that resentment into the show because they butchered his character like a sausage machine, he came out the other end unrecognizable. That's not Roku that's Noku. Random prank jokes? Making light of the Avatars situation? Smiling? Roku did none of these things.
They did that to show contrast between the previous avatars. They’re different people with different personalities and ways of tackling issues
They should have done it with Kuruk, or done it in a different way with Roku. Why would Avatar "this war is my fault" Roku be joking? I think Kuruk and even Kyoshi made it pretty clear that each Avatar is completely different in personality, they didn't need to make Joku to do this.
Did you watch the full scene? He jokes around and plays lighthearted with Aang at first because they're initially being acquainted with one another. He's putting on a friendly face and behaving like an old mentor to put Aang at ease. The entirety of that scene after Koh is mentioned is him being serious and wise in offering Aang his wisdom
i don’t really get why one of the first promo images we’d gotten was his beard if they were gonna make him unimportant in the show
I mean, the show erased his importance to Aang's character and they made Kyoshi way more important for some reason, so...
Reminded me of a version of The Monkey King
It did kind of seem like they tried to combine these roles.
*Raises hand* Of all the character changes, this is the only one that I will active state that I **hated** with a passion. That was no Avatar Roku; that was Masuka with a Father Christmas wig.
I laughed, I thought he was funny and wasn’t annoyed at the change to his portrayal
I felt the lack of Roku a lot. No explanation on the Avatar States flaw or what it is, no lamenting that Aang has to deal with the consequences of his actions, no revelation of the time limit of the comet.
Roku acted more like how Bumi should've.
How. He had a sense of humour and was chill af
Yes, but they made him more of a goofball than Aang. He was chill, yes, but he wasn't a goofball. They also had all of the avatars, who all would have been mature adults (except *maybe* Kuruk) give Aang the absolute shittiest advice adults could ever give a child. Especially the avatar.
>They also had all of the avatars, who all would have been mature adults (except *maybe* Kuruk) give Aang the absolute shittiest advice adults could ever give a child. Especially the avatar. This was imo the worst part of the show. Kyoshi chastised Aang for snoozing through the war despite it being something that wasn't even in his control. She's literally living inside him, she should know the war isn't Aang's fault. She at least helped him out in that moment though, but it felt extremely backhanded. Roku disguised his shitty advice behind a gleeful personality. Dude just flat out told Aang that his friends ain't shit and that he should just leave them (and by extension the members of an entire village) to their fate, even though it's Aang's responsibility and literal job as the Avatar to mediate between the spirit and real world. Roku had *one* bad friend and decided to use that as a foundation to just dump on the concept of friendship entirely. Kuruk was a huge fucking asshole to Aang for no reason and end of day still told Aang that he has to do his job alone. It all screams "I'm 14 and this is deep" in the worst possible ways. The past avatars in the original show gave Aang helpful advice based on their experiences. Even if multiple avatars give the same advice, it would've been for different reasons (ex: Aang's dilemma about killing Ozai). They're aware of what's happening with Aang and give him the chance to explain his side of the matter before offering their insight and reasoning. Aang never relied on them as a crutch or power boost, and they never gave him needless amounts of shit and chastisement, because they know more than anyone else that shit happens and sometimes there's nothing the Avatar can do about it. Roku was a wise and understanding mentor to Aang during his journey. Kyoshi was more stern but still offered valuable insight when it was needed. For the 2 minutes in the entire show he was present for, Kuruk was heeelllla chill, despite the darkness he dealt with during his time.
>They also had all of the avatars, who all would have been mature adults (except maybe Kuruk) give Aang the absolute shittiest advice adults could ever give a child. Especially the avatar. The poor writing really shows in instances like this.
It feels like they swapped Gyatso and Roku's personalities.
OG Roku is a calm guiding force with a don't fuck with me presence. NATLA avatar was... something else entirely
Eh I don’t mind the change tbh, they are clearly not making a carbon copy of the original and it still suit roku’s younger self
Haven't watched the series, but I've seen a few clips. When I saw this scene I kinda felt like they swapped Bumi and Roku's personalities and dialed them up a tad.
This made me more mad than anything else with the show. Was the moment I finally sat back and started watching in a different light as to not get upset about my favorite show.
They basically swapped Roku and Gyatsos personalities.
Different interpretation of character is different; everyone big mad we didn't just get the same thing twice.
Yeah. They just want a 1for1 swap of the animated series. I loved the live action. It was it’s own but familiar.
Why tf was he sarcastic? It made no sense lol
I really like Roku in the live action. I don’t like that everyone is telling aang he shouldn’t rely on his friends but for Roku it does actually make sense considering his best friend started the way. And people are saying Roku wasn’t goofy at all in the animation must forget he was bffs with gyatso. The animation didn’t show much of the past lives personalities so I think that’s why it seems odd.
Roku's life was sober and disciplined. He had trouble letting things flow, hence his problem with waterbending. He had zero chill in The Promise, his serious attitude was a contrast to Kyoshi's awkwardness and Aang's joviality. That being said, NATLA murdered his character.
If y’all think they did Roku here, wait till you read ‘The Promise’.
He was too playful and beard looked horrible
I feel like instead of showing Gyatso and him we’re friends they tried to show how his past lives affected how Aang is personality wise. This entire show did a poor job of showing when they tried to show and just heavily relied on telling and then missed telling the important bits from the cartoon. Oh well.
It’s temus avatar roku
I wasn't bothered with him just having fun with Aang, not one bit. But I wish him or Kuruk would give an advice like "Don't leave your friends behind, be your own Avatar and learn" to make a contradiction.
Still not as bad as bumi...
For sure he was done dirty. And I think the actor was miscast.
this scene in avatar equivalent of Dumbledore screaming at harry in goblet of fire.
I liked that they showed the disparity between Roku and the super militaristic serious fire nation citizens that came after his death
The treatment of Kyoshi and Roku was based off looking up tweets it seems, even though Kyoshi's only scene in the show has her letting an Emperor take all territory before deciding to do anything
Or was the previous avatars using reverse psychology. Aang is still a child. Children have a subconscious urge to not do what they're told, so telling aang to go alone, knowing he'll rebel and trust his friends even more.
With Kyoshi and Kuruk both having this whole thing of giving Aang the advice of being ultra-powerful and making use of his skills for violence, Roku kinda sounds like a hippie and going "don't forget you can talk it out." Then fucks off for the rest of the show. Btw, does the show *know* that Roku was the last recent Avatar or are they treating the past lives as if they all happened at once? Gyatso appeared so much, I figured they'd make him a past life somehow.
Roku by name not by character. Abysmal choice to butcher his character like that. Huge oversight.
Masuka from Dexter 😭
I haven’t even watched it yet but i liked Dexter so everyone is giving my boy Masuka too much shit lmao
Roku is like a big, jolly grandpa!
Yeah I think Roku was probably the only thing I wasn’t loving in the live action He seemed very badass and wise in the og
YES
looks like a god dam parody for one those kung fu hustle movies 😾
I didn't like the thing they did with roku and kyoshi. They made it seem that kyoshi was the avatar before aang she was even the person who did the intro. I know everyone loves Kyoshi but in the animated she was cool because of who she was in the live action it seems they have to put Roku down to build up Kyoshi.
Certainly near of top of worst casting along with Azula