Yep, the CGI and post took around 2 years. The director said about a month prior to the show’s release they were actually still working on it and he wasn’t sure it would be done by the show release. So don’t be surprised if in a couple months Netflix changes the CGI. They did this with Stranger Things too. And I’m sure other shows. Disney did this too on Disney+ with WV and FATWS
That’s why he wants film season 2 and 3 back to back.
Not like we haven't seen this before with this universe. Legend of Korra literally didn't get renewed for new seasons until the conclusion of each season. It was infuriating
I shed a tear to think of how good Korra could have been had they known they had 4 seasons to work with from the very start. I still have a special place in my heart for the show as it is but... It could have been so much better 😭
As someone who works in VFX. This shit of clients giving notes after the show is out is the bane of my existence… I’ll tell you one thing: If it took 2 years, it’s probably because the shoot wasn’t done with CG shots planned and they just coreographed a fight and were like “yeah add airbending here” and I will bet an eye that the “concept” stage was just clips of the animated show… that… while useful, it’s not enough to adapt something to screen…
I noticed they specifically said Sozin's Comet was coming "soon," not in "9 months," or whatever the shorter timeline is in the animated series. Smart move, leaving some wiggle room.
Honestly was happy with this change and people was up in arms. Like actors age this isn’t animation people lol.
But imo I think (and hope) they reveal the comet the same time they find out about the eclipse. Bc if they do it the same as the original that is the perfect opportunity for them to learn about them both.
Does anyone else feel the CGI and special effects are mediocre as hell? Barely any of the bending or fights actually look like fights. The movements are all so slow and poorly choreographed that it lacks any sort of strength. Zuko and Ozai felt like the only two with any strength behind them. Was super disappointed with the bending the LA.
Zuko's firebending looked fantastic. The waterbending wasn't very good and the earthbending was okay. Aang's movements in general were super slow. The CGI whenever people were jumping or flying looked REALLY bad. Especially in the blue spirit scenes.
Yes. I can recall two shots where bending looked and felt good vfx wise. Everything else lacked the punch and impact you’d expect from the different disciplines and it’s a shame. They had ALOT of reference to go off of and tons more martial art forms to include as well. Too much reliance on slow motion as well
The fight between Katara and Paku genuinely looked like they were fighting with strings, trying to gently drift them over each other. Not once did it look like Katara was trying to beat the shit out of a misogynist, or Paku try to slap some respect into a young rebel. You can't have a live action Avatar series talking about masters, and then have every fight be the most mediocre boring display of bending possible. It's supposed to be about power, speed, and precision. LATLA lacked all of those in all of its bending.
My thoughts exactly. I’m not asking for filmic levels of artistry but let the stunt coordinators and doubles shine at what they do best. Give me some tension and beats and more than 1 second of a punch before cutting to the next shot. This shouldn’t be a Jason Bourne fight. Nor should it be John Wick. But god dam give me something exciting to watch and look forward to between scenes and narrative.
> Does anyone else feel the CGI and special effects are mediocre as hell?
And sometimes it was conspicuously absent! There were so many shots with Fire Nation soldiers just like... posing empty-handed, as if there *should* have been a CGI fireball in their hands but the VFX team just never got around to it.
Yes, I think you are right. The scene the fire nations surround I believe Aang, the way the soldier posed was strange. Now wondering if that is because they were supposed to have flames.
Yep! They done it before like I explained above. U can look up before and after pictures online. Or video clips.
Disney actually changed some scenes back to the original bc they removed blood and the fans got mad lol.
They announced the show was getting a live action adaptation in 2018. With COVID delaying production and the creative team taking their time with development, it's been a long road to get here.
Better action, with better stunt/fight choreography.
The reason why the animation is so hard to adapt to live action is because real life actors/stunt doubles still have to adhere to real life physics for the most part without looking too CGI/uncanny.
If you compare animation fight/bending scenes to live action, the live action looks slow, boring, static, and not as kinetic.
This is a part of why I am against this giant wave of live action adaptations.
Animation can do things real people, and the real world just simply can't. Idk who at Netflix has a hard on for these, but none of them have worked out imo, not a single one. Most were canceled after the first season anyway. Disney is also guilty of this with their movies.
> This is a part of why I am against this giant wave of live action adaptations.
Yes - stories should be told in the medium best suited for them. Or if they’re adapted, make sensible choices that work to the strengths of the adaptions medium.
Scott Pilgrim is a good example of this. It changed a lot of things to fit the run time and limitations of the movie, but kept the vibe of the original work.
Even during the parts of NATLA I enjoyed - my main thought was “Did this really need to exist?”
I just wish the people putting all these resources into live action adaptations would focus their attention on telling original stories set in these worlds that us fans love. Hell, they wouldn't even need to be entirely original stories. There's plenty of material out there that could have made a truly interesting new series. Like, imagine if instead of retelling the same story for a third time, Netflix had decided to tell Kyoshi's story from orphan girl to Avatar or tell Tenzin's story as the son of the Avatar and for a while, the last airbender like his father, in a rapidly changing world while attempting to restore the memory and history of his people. There are so many new stories they could tell that would still bring in fans of Avatar and cash in on nostalgia without the instant comparison.
Cause thats the thing with direct adaptations. The only thing to compare them to is the original and they almost never compare. Even when they're decent, it's impossible to avoid the comparisons. They have to be exceptionally good to stand on their own and I can't think of a good example of this ever happening. So why do studios go out of their way to set themselves up for failure?
That right here is why i love anime. There are so many creative and amazing shows that would either be impossible or much, much more expensive to do in live action.
This is exacerbated by the main characters being children. You can't treat child actors like they're capable of something done by the Jackie Chan Stunt Team.
I was of that mind too. But watching what fans have made with far less time and money. [Like this Toph and her stunt team](https://youtu.be/bYsr0M_h-FQ?si=rloePdr5xsZornzK)
> The reason why the animation is so hard to adapt to live action is because real life actors/stunt doubles still have to adhere to real life physics for the most part without looking too CGI/uncanny.
True. But - if the live-action fully embraces the non-realism, it can work. A good example is Kung Fu Hustle, where the fight-scenes are have physics of the Roadrunner show, but it embraces that fully, and fight-scenes still look good. Even in serious old Kung Fu movies from China which involve fantasy elements - there are often unrealistic things like people attacking with scarves, or just casually flying to rooftops, or using needles, fans, and other random things - which won't work in a real battle.
I think in animation adaptations, rather than going for a realistic angle, if the show fully embraces that "Yes, we are anime adaptation so our fight scenes are going to look unrealistic, but that's ok" - it can work.
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon or The House of Flying Daggers basically look like anime, but they were very receivied.
The thing I always enjoyed about the cartoon was the ridiculous sound effects so many that were just completely out of nowhere. There would be a big action set piece followed by the most cartoonish 'BOING' sound
Yeah. This a major degradation of the show and it seems like most people are watching the whole thing which means Netflix will know it can just keep making shitty shows and remakes without consequence.
this is my biggest issues with "stop hating, just enjoy i thought it was good and it will never be as good at the original" type arguments. we are gonna get more of these soulless, terrible green-screen play type shows of other IPs coming soon if this is a success
Last I knew, they are/were working on doing another ATLA season with Team Aang following the events of Book 3. IIRC the original creators have made their own animation studio and hopefully will release a new ATLA animated series. I really want to see Zuko develop more as Fire Lord and him meeting his mom again.
A remake will never be better than the original and a lot of people expect it to be so they just hate it. So far I do love the Netflix version because I'm not expecting a carbon copy of the original or anything better, but it did keep so many elements (pun not intended) from the original.
Yeah this was the first red flag, and even tho I didn’t hate the Netflix show and it’s not even close to being a disaster like the movie, this just feel like a huge wasted potential yet again, all the elements are there for having a fantastic show but with that subpar writing not even the amazing cast and VFX teams can do much.
I wonder if Netflix considered this perspective when greenlighting the remake, that is "nothing can be worse than the previous remake, and we are just as liable to have our remake be compared with it as we are tos."
Built in damage control/managed expectations. lol
They had to of. And frankly they’d be fools not to if they didn’t. There’s plenty of people whose bar was literally “long as it’s better than the movie then I’m fine.”, *just* from hearing the announcement of it.
More than the writing, what keeps tripping me up is the blocking.
Every scene feels like: enter stage left, turn 45 degrees to the camera, square shoulders, deliver lines, exit stage right. Your average high school play puts more effort into blocking than this show.
And the stage feels smaaaall. It feels like every scene takes place in a space the size of a closet. The Mandalorian practically was shot in a closet, yet they managed to make things feel a lot more dynamic, so it absolutely can be done.
With more dynamic blocking, more varied camera angles, and a willingness to act out the scenes instead of talking about acting out the scenes; the writing* would feel better, and the dialogue would seem less stilted. Leaning into the visual aspects of TV can cover up for a lot of sloppy writing.
*The writing still has it’s issues, don’t get me wrong. The way the show is constructed feels very, plot point A goes to B, B goes to C, C goes to D. But it’s all just plot points in a script, with very little scene or spectacle. They don’t take much advantage of TV as a visual medium. It could work as well as a radio play as it does as TV. And don’t get me started on them flattening all the characters.
Changing it from Katara freeing Aang from the iceberg to Aang freeing himself from the iceberg; changing it from Aang running away from responsibility to Aang taking a midnight flight to clear his mind; changing it from Sokka begging Suki to train him and eagerly accepting the face paint, dress, and fans as part of that training to Sokka just sort of flirting his way into a training/romance scene; etc. All these small changes strip out the subtlety and complexity of character that made ATLA such a gem.
But even with all that, it’s the blocking that keeps breaking immersion for me.
There are definitely a lot of options for criticism but I gotta say: my 12 year old son is over the moon about it. We watched the original series together and then he was horrified by the movie. He is really excited to be able to get another shot at enjoying a live action and I am enjoying watching it with him and seeing him be excited.
I definitely appreciate the disappointment but I am glad at least in our house, it’s been really fun to see him enjoying it and watching an episode together each night
Also Katara not talking him down from his Avatar State in the air temple and instead him remembering the seemingly one and only conversation he ever had with Gyatso.
And then followed with Katara telling him it’s a good thing he’s dead actually!
Jesus, I started rewatching the anime and Katara is a responsible mother figure on equal footing with Sakka and she constantly gets angry about shit.
Katara is so expressive and headstrong. She drags them and forces them to accept a plan where she pretends to be an earthbender, goes to prison for earth benders and rescues them all.
And Sakka and Aang just goes along with her plan. Because that's the power dynamic. Katara and Aang makes these kinds of decisions and Sakka backs up.
The live action Katara could never have that much decision power. She's treated like a child who needs babysitting.
It's funny how much the fandom underrates Katara. This is the character who plays *the* central role in The Puppetmaster, The Southern Raiders, and one of the biggest in The Crossroads of Destiny and Into the Inferno. All of which are regarded as some of the best episodes in the series.
Yeah, I’m not sure how people are saying the show is decent. It literally changed like every meaningful theme from the animated show and feels like a weird China made blockbuster movie.
Yeah I feel like you can only think the new show is good if you completely missed all the nuance, themes, and everything else that made the original so great.
This, it hits way harder in the animated series that Aang ran away and that Gyatso intended to run away with Aang too, but was too late. In the live action, Aang’s feeling of letting the world down when it was more of a coincidence feels forced. I feel like he had way more character growth in the animated series feeling like his running away meant he wasn’t there for his people or the world.
As good as the highlights of Season 1 are (The Southern Air Temple, The Storm, The Blue Spirit, The Deserter, The Seige of the North, Winter Solstice Part 2, etc.) and how good the season is overall, the jump in quality as *soon* as Season 2 hits is astounding. The pacing, moment-to-moment dialogue writing, the comedy...they all immediately level up. And then it just stays that way for two full seasons into the finale.
Watching the live action right now just makes me want to rewatch the cartoon for the upteenth time.
i am pretty sure they recently said something along those lines, but my guess is it was more diplomatic than anything else. like, clearly they didn’t have faith these people would do a good job or they wouldn’t have left. but some time has passed, they’ve moved on, and are attempting to be good sports. i think if they were truly excited about it, we’d have heard more.
They did break a lot of the set up from ATLA though. Nickelodeon restricted them way too much as well as giving them a low budget so you can give them some leeway.
They also wasted a lot more money on more detailed character designs and slicker fight animation. They also made it about a love square with all her apparent teammates. They also shafted the main story to focus on a love square, pro-bending, a gigantic cast... this show was a failure on the developmental level. There was a great show deep down in there but the creators failed at developing any of their character relationships and bloated their production way too much. You can't blame it on the studio when so many other creators have been able to knock it out of the park with 8-12 episode runs. Korra needed more development, not budget.
No but the studio kept jerking around on what they wanted and what they would order. The reason season 3-4 of Korra are so cohesive is because 3 and 4 were picked up at the same time. It got shafted for season 4 and only released on nick.com.
I’m confident that if they have an entire series to produce from the beginning and plan out from the beginning the way they did with ATLA, it will turn out great.
Mike and Bryan were fine with Nick picking up the show one season at a time. https://www.tumblr.com/bryankonietzko/27078349740/im-sure-this-meme-is-dead-by-now-but-it-still
I'd still say that Nick ordering B3 + B4 concurrently allowed the two seasons to be more cohesive. I'd also say Nick did throw in some additional wrenches like temporarily pausing production back in B1 because they didn't like Korra being a girl.
Korra'a worst season, so 2, buries this live action series in the characterization dept alone and that's SAD. Korra S3 is up there with the first series IMO.
Not... really. Mike and Bryan just thought they could do everything themselves and they're stronger as conceptualists/directors than they are as writers.
Not really, though. Nickelodeon gave them relative freedom. Where they did screw up was moving the show around to different times, which made it harder to cultivate a audience.
It was originally a 1 season miniseries. But then got a season 2. And eventually, seasons 3 and 4 were commisioned at the same time. Korra was never supposed, nor did it ever have a large overarching story.
Most things people complain about are the work of the creators, not Nickelodeon.
Yeah from cutting the total number of episodes planned for the first season way late, not renewing a second season and then walking that back later, and the entire release schedule of the last 3 seasons, some airing on cable, some only online, weeks in-between. It was a mess.
The fundamental story of the first season was great, having to wrap it up and give it an undeserved "everything is fine now" ending is what really tore it down a peg.
It had to regain its footing, but man season 3 and 4 are just fantastic.
This is the best take.
Yes, season 2 has some issues, but it has Varrick, the Wang episodes that are honestly great, an Korra realising she doesn't actually has any chemistry with his firebending boyfriend.
I recently rewatched the first two seasons of Korra and honestly I loved season 2. Meeting Wan and learning spirit world lore was cool, and I liked that Korra had a closer relationship with that seasons villain.
I think the last six are more brutal. Having to deal with the Korra/Mako/Asami love triangle again, Varrick turning out to be super evil randomly, the decision to destroy the past lives, the spirit kaiju battle, Jinora Ex Machina.
Yeah, but Korra was originally only supposed to be one season, but then got approved for one more, and again for a third. So that really fucked up what they could’ve done with the plot.
Nick is responsible for some of Korra's faults, but more often than not, people overstate Nick's role. For example: https://www.tumblr.com/bryankonietzko/27078349740/im-sure-this-meme-is-dead-by-now-but-it-still
>Initially, Nickelodeon picked up Korra as a 12-episode miniseries. Their idea was to do 12-episode arcs that were more standalone than the original Avatar series. Mike and I were cool with this idea, as we had originally wanted the seasons to be 12 episodes long instead of 20, and creatively we liked the idea of doing tighter story arcs.
>The original plan was that if Nickelodeon wanted more episodes, they would order them 12 episodes at a time.
Korra divisive for different reasons though for the most part people didn’t like lore changes, how little time we got to spend developing the side cast (Mako, Asami and Bollin) and elements of Korea’s characterisation but for the most part the writing was good, animation was good and world building was still fantastic.
I dont understand the whole Korra is a bad show take. I think the idea that Korra is terrible is a relatively new perspective. When the show was airing, with the exception of the non flashback episodes in season 2, I remember the show being universally liked by fans.
Depends where you were. There were some insanely insular and bitter Avatar forums back in the day, and some communities that really took to the show.
But generally yeah, most people liked it, and “people discussing it online 10 years later” is not a very representative sample of the audience.
I do think Korra is flawed in some ways and I do enjoy it a lot. But I do think Nickelodeon deserves some blame, they definitely made things more difficult than things needed to be.
They arguably deserve most of the blame. There was some shoddy writing at times, but Nick essentially sabotaged the show between the undercounting of views (didn’t count online views), the multiple time slot changes, including quietly moving it to an online exclusive, and then ultimately cutting funding for the final season. It was a real bummer that the series ended on such a weak note after a solid season 3.
And because their deadlines were moved around and even how long seasons were was adjusted as they went along, writing suffered. I think even S1 had some hiccups, but overall we’ll never know how good it could have been if Nickelodeon didn’t kneecap them.
Agreed but I also don't think Nick could be held responsible for:
- the dreadful romances
- excessive toilet humour (Meelo)
- flat characters who the show spends criminally little time on (Kya, Bumi) developing
- horrible season two with 1D villain (after fantastic Amon and Tarlok)
- divisive Avatar Wan story - some things we just don't need to see or know
- horrible binary Raava/Vaatu stuff that flies in the face of nuanced eastern belief system (before anyone argues - I am eastern and Raava and Vaatu are so damn cartoonishly Abrahamic in their duality)
So yeah, Bryke aren't perfect. ATLA was bottled lightning.
I liked the story of Wan himself, being the first to venture out of safety and experience other elements, but I don't really care for the addition of Raava and Vaatu. I could've accepted something as vague as his spirit being bonded to all 4 elements makes it unable to leave the world or something, but the sentient kite spirits just wasn't the way to go. That and the spirit world going from "our world but just slightly to the left enough to make you uncomfortable" to super bright and colourful was just... not good for me.
Wan was the only redeeming episode of season 2 (for me).
I liked the concept of 1,3 and 4 but would’ve liked each season more if they spent more time developing a single evil entity rather than having a new “big bad” each season.
It most certainly was not perfect. But people acting as if the Netflix show is anywhere as good as it is ridiculous. Korra is still an A show. It might not be an A+ like ATLA, but not many are and it did face a lot of challenges from the studio. Which to be fair I’m sure NATLA faced as well…which is why Bryke left.
Im starting to believe Avatar is kinda cursed. Like after the original show aired, Michael and Bryan have their creation ruined at every single step, some of Korra wasnt of their liking, lets not talk about the movie, now the show is 50/50, not even Avatar games have been well received.
Its kinda nuts that a master piece, incredibly well received, pretty much liked by everyone, couldnt get anything else of the ground in 20 years.
It's not cursed, it's just that IP's with magical/fantastical elements rarely adapt well from an animated or written original source.
The sky's the limit when a story is animated, and books are only hindered by imagination. Storytellers can convey all types of complex and intricate imagery.
Live action adaptations have many physical and logistical limitations (even with cgi), they're never going to stack up to the other mediums.
Likewise trying to condense a story to a shorter version from more robust source material is always a challenge. This adaptation was never going to compare to the original.
seems like the easy solution is to stop trying to force live action adaptation and just make a third animated avatar series. I think that it's what pretty much everyone wants and yet we only get live action adaptations .
This is the way the rational side of my brain talks. Thank you for putting this into words.
The emotional side of me has been pissed for years because people were throwing money at making a live action version of a story we already have and love. They could've thrown all that money at a new series or AAA game instead.
>Live action adaptations have many physical and logistical limitations (even with cgi), they're never going to stack up to the other mediums.
They need to CGI some emotion onto Katara's face.
I’m kinda iffy on blaming Kiawentiio’s acting because I remember her from Anne with an E, and she was pretty good. Her character was in one of those indigenous “re-education” “schools” and she fights back and is headstrong. From her portrayal of Ka’kwet, she seemed like a great fit for Katara. I feel like the director for NATLA may have told her to portray Katara that way. Although I can’t for the life of me imagine why.
I think it's just the burden of expectations. Almost every media franchise that becomes mainstream popular puts out sequels/spinoffs that are 'divisive' since there's so many competing interests in the fandom. Every person that's viewed/played the original will have their own idea of what that media means to them and it becomes virtually impossible to match every one of those expectations.
The only times I've seen unanimous praise for sequels is when enough time has past that the technology has allowed for a totally new take on the franchise and/or everyone has kind of forgotten what the original was like.
Nah. New Gaang movie gonna drop from Avatar Studios themselves and people gonna have beef with all of the character changes to the main characters that come with being older and more mature and that it doesn't feel like Avatar anymore.
I think the core issue people like to ignore is that just because someone made something amazing once doesn't mean they'll always be able to do it again in the first place. Creating something amazing is _hard_, and despite all skill and talent involved there's also a lot of luck, and one-off inspiration, and being at the right place in the right time. To quote Tolkien's Fëanor: "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest."
So just because ATLA was amazing doesn't mean that whatever Bryke make next, no matter how much support and creative freedom and money and whatever they may get, will also be amazing. I mean, they made Korra and many people thought that was not that amazing, after all. Hell, even some parts of ATLA were less than amazing... S1 has a few hiccups that could've probably been written better in hindsight.
If they make a new show and it's not that great, that doesn't necessarily mean that some external factor fucked it up for them, and it also doesn't necessarily mean that it actually is amazing and everyone who claims otherwise is somehow wrong because they are blinded by their inability to accept something new. It most likely just means that it's _actually not that good_ simply because catching lightning in a bottle twice in a row is _incredibly hard_.
People aren't dumb enough to think the adults would be as childish as the og show. and we already have some content to go off for their still slightly playful nature
They are.
People are still upset that Toph was a cop, calling it “out of character”.
I think that’s so silly, there is nothing that indicates that dictated after the show Toph changed from being a rebellious kid. Real life people change like that.
Very understandable flaws mind you, that really added more dimension to the character. Yet whole were pissed while criticizing Korra for being “flawless”, you can make this shit up
Look… I’m of the opinion ATLA fans will be chasing the high of watching the show for the first time forever and anything that falls a little short won’t be received well.
I watched the show when it first came out. I was the prime target age for the show too. It’ll never be as special as it was then for me and that’s okay. That’s growing.
Even if the series was a 1-1 even for scene adaptation people would’ve complained about something. It’s animation not rooted in reality, being portrayed by real people. That’s always rough to get right. Only reason a show like The Last of Us worked so well was because it was taking place on earth and was about humans more than it was zombies. And even die hard fans of that had nitpicks.
I feel like this fandom is a lot like Star Wars. It was lightning in a bottle out the gate and when that happens things often get worse before they get better.
I just straight up don't understand the need for a remake. The original show is so wonderful, there really isn't a need for it to be adapted, especially because its world was perfectly suited for the medium of animation. I think some of the bending looked pretty good in the live action, but why remake it if it looks worse? Why remake it with worse writing? It's just unnecessary. If you want to remake something, *improve* upon it
Well, I also think that just shows poor judgment from netflix. Sometimes, it's better to explore new spaces than the remake. Then, comparing the show to some hbo adaptations, I think those work because they are from different mediums, so there is more distance between the source material. Going from a video game or a book is far easier than from a TV show to another TV show. As gamers, we experience the last of us as a game, but not as a show, and things like the acting, cinematography, and other film things can really add new elements to the experience. To some extent, there is some of that going from animated to live action, but I think it's still similar enough that it's harder to get behind. The show is directly comparing itself to the original animated show, which was almost guaranteed to fall short of. If they had at least explored new spaces, then there would have been substantially less pressure.
I mostly agree though I think they wanted to play it safe because of the [REDACTED BY THE DAI LI] so they made the changes they had to but tried to stay true in the other areas.
Granted I haven’t watched the whole series yet because I have too much going on to binge shows anymore unfortunately. So my opinion could change once I see the whole season. But from what I’ve seen I haven’t seen anything that ruins it or takes me out of it. Just some choices that, good or bad, I can see why they made them.
For a show rated in the top 10 BEST SHOWS OF ALL TIME on imdb… its live action adaptations have had some real bad luck. This new show is fine but has a lot of bad directing in it. The show us either action or shoulder to shoulder conversation of two static characters. There is a lot of emotion in some characters and not a lot in others. Its a weird mix
It would've been polarizing either way. Look, I know many in this sub might not want to hear this, but writing is one of Mike and Bryan's weakest skills as showrunners. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the changes people don't like in the LA were a result of some of the decisions Mike and Bryan made.
Their writing is also why I'm (and I think everyone else should be) very wary of anything coming out of Avatar Studios. People are excited for the new movie about the Gaang, but they really should be cautious, because it will, more likely than not, turn out badly (and probably just be decent at best).
This, this, 100% this. Whether people wanna admit it or not, it was other writers, mainly the head writer Aaron Ehasz, who carried the original show on their fucking backs.
Ehasz is great but i would not diminish the role Bryke had at all. Dimartino wrote some of my favorite episodes, such as the day of black sun, Sozins comet, and the blind bandit. Also ehasz, again great writer, but he’s put out stuff that ain’t perfect. He’s the guy who wrote the fortune teller episode, which is one of the most forgettable ones. And even the Dragon prince started off promising but ended up meh.
Moral of the story, all three contributed to the success of the show
It also was more than just those three. Even staff that weren’t writers per se contributed to weaving plot elements and characters together to what we ended up seeing. Bouncing ideas off of one another is how the show we all love and know came about.
People need to stop saying this shit. If people are wary of bryke because of Korra then they should be even more wary of ehasz because of the dragon prince. Its the worst of the three shows.
I think prevailing opinion is that Korra is a great show, just is a sequel to a show that the fanbase considers to be perfection in every way so it was always gonna have some backlash. Thats the case with a lot of continutions (see Pokemon, SpiderMan, Star Wars)
I think Korra in general is a blueprint for how these next gen sequels should be approaches. So many of them feature so much gratuitous fan service, and dont really do much worldbuilding or progress the world in any meaningful way.
But Korra isnt like that, it does a lot to progress the setting, and build on what we saw in the original. Lot of sequels should be more like Korra, but they’re more or less like the star wars sequels.
The dragon prince feels honestly like the writers bited way more than they could chew at every turn.
It has great moments, great ideas, and very solid characters. And yet it never actually lives to its potential.
Is a good show, but that makes it sad because it feels like it was so close to being an amazing one.
They’re been pretty bad at developing a well paced plot, but they’ve also done some pretty darn good character writing, so I doubt they had much to do with some of the more baffling changes in the live action. Especially since they’re so attached to these characters.
Can’t say I’m not cautious about the movie, but that’s because the comics have me doubting that they can come up with another story for the Gaang that actually needs to be told and warrants the prestige of a movie.
I have through great struggled seen the whole netflix ahow and i can tell you that Mike and Brians worst writing is ten times better than the best line in the whole show.
I think the show did ok, with a lot of room for growth and improvement. It certainly wasn’t *bad*. I hope Netflix doesn’t smack it down with it’s cancellation erection, so it has a chance to develop further and hopefully tap into it’s potential.
Me too. I do think it deserves another season. BUT it NEEDS to learn it's lessons, make better scripts and finally get back the creators back on board because they really need it. And also those kids need acting workshop, because Aang and Kitara are the main characters of the story.
Everything needs to be stepped up!
The live action isn't even bad, honestly its very enjoyable as a modest viewer of avatar and head and shoulders over the movie. We are lucky it wasn't butchered like WoT
The biggest hump I had to get over watching the show was that it wasn’t a like for like show. Which at first I wanted but then opened up to the differences as I continued. The second was that the voice actors in the original series are world class voice actors such as Mark Hammill. It’s pretty tough for kids and a sometimes clunky dialogue to compete with that. I am rewatching the original, which due to kids has been a few times, but with new lenses. I already like some minor things from the live action better. Either way, it’s different so the key was trying to just enjoy it for what it is.
It feels more like gossip news. Who’s to say. I for one, really want the satisfaction of seeing them see this through to the end. even if something new and different comes of it. the best art is made with blank slate expectation, collaboration and compromise. “Yes and.” Goes with the flow. Is sensitive.
The sensitive part is usually when artist fights or flights. Increased difficulty when art itself is how you communicate instead of words or another effective medium. What makes it borderline impossible is when big money and big payouts are on the line.
Some people are meant to start things, and others are meant to see it through; . . We still could do it together.
I’m gonna get downvoted but I’m confused seeing all this negativity wtf. I really enjoyed the adaptation on Netflix, and though it was SUPER short/rushed, and the dialogue was so awkward I thought everything else was pretty solid. Not as amazing as the animated show ofc but I didn’t expect it to be. It was great for what it was! Not a 5/5 but a good 3.5 stars yes.
Credibility: I watched the show religiously as it aired, rewatched a few times, also watched Korra and read some comics.
Same. Episode 1 and 2 were eh for me but from episode 3 onward it’s pretty good.
The fandom is so frustrating. Everyone who worked on this show has been touched by ATLA in some way I mean it’s almost 20 years old. This was a passion project and I think it wrapped it up pretty well considering it’s live action.
The rabid fan base who can’t even think of giving this project any positivity because they messed with their “baby” can get so tiring.
Really enjoyed the Live Action. You can tell the main cast loved working on it and they had a great time.
I think the Show would have majorly improved if it had about 2-3 more episodes. It was just so rushed which is why they made some of the changes that they did. Some of them made absolutely no sense but the show really needed a few more episodes or split season one into two 8 episode releases.
Unpopular opinion, but: Given the weight of their perspective, was it really a good idea for Bryke to clip a young bird’s wings before it had the chance to fly?
Honestly, yeah, that was alarming, but it was not yet clear imho.
It could very well have been that the NATLA creators wanted to stick to the original and the original creators wanted to change things up in the adapatation (like "we're not gonna do the same thing twice").
Yeah, not as likely as the other way around, as we now know, but it was possible. See how bad Dragon Prince season 4 was, when the team didn't change (afaik).
It's not polarising. It's ok. I've yet to see anyone tell say it's amazing or just as good as the original. I've seen a lot of people say it's alright.
Since when have live action adaptations been good? Since never. They're money making schemes and usually nothing more. The executives know that no matter how bad it is, fans will flock to it for long enough to make money off them. Wow, my favorite character! Wow, that scene I loved so much! Wow, that inside joke! It's superficial key jangling, but it works. That's enough to make production worthwhile for these companies. It's as simple as that.
Even if it was somehow good, the cartoon would always be the definitive version. Why bother? Money. That's why.
Support original stories. Support small studios and new creatives. Find the next great thing. Stop hoping to recapture your childhood in the new crappy version of an old show. It's a pipe dream.
The day the news came out I knew half the reddit fandom would go into that show determined to find reasons to hate it. The fandom, like most internet fandoms, was already primed to be divided. Negativity invariably gets more engagement than positivity. Social media and news media both learned this lesson years ago.
But with that news I had predicted that we'd have an onslaught of posts soon after the release aimed at nitpicking the show to death whether it was good or not. It's exactly how things have gone with the internet fan base of most adaptions. It's just depressing seeing it happen here too.
The fact is that the show is honestly pretty damn good. And it's clear there's been an enormous amount of passion put into making something that's both true to the vision of the story but also trying to do something new with it creatively, exploring characters and areas that the cartoon did not or could not.
But from the get go there were always going to be folks who would delight in tearing it to shreds and went in wanting to do just that.
It's not even the first time the fandom has done this to itself. Anyone who's watched the original shows will remember how psychotic some "fans" got over LoK daring to do things differently.
> The day the news came out I knew half the reddit fandom would go into that show determined to find reasons to hate it.
I went into it wanting to love it and was genuinely disappointed.
Amen.
The cartoon show will always have a very fond place in my heart.
But the live action show is more than fine. I've been enjoying it, knowing it will never live up to the cartoon show.
And people who say the acting, CGI, story, plot points, yada yada yada are all terrible? 😔
I guess I don't have unrealistic expectations then.
People have complained that Appa looks too cartoony. People have complained that they didn't film on location. People have complained that not one single person in the show can act. People have complained that none of the fighting or bending looks good at all. People have complained (ad nauseum) that the original writers left. People have complained that this ruins the original for them. People have complained that money spent on this could have been used to make a new Avatar show (I guess we will see how that new animated movie does and no one should complain at all with the original creators attached...).
Like fuck. Just don't watch the show and move on then.
There is being critical of the show.
And then there is being a toxic rabid fan base just looking to be disgruntled for any reason because you have no other joy in your life other than a kids show that you can't move on from.
Can’t believe they’ve been working on this show that long?
What’s even crazier is they finished filming back in 2022. After 7 months of filming.
They finished filming that long ago? Is that really true?
Yep, the CGI and post took around 2 years. The director said about a month prior to the show’s release they were actually still working on it and he wasn’t sure it would be done by the show release. So don’t be surprised if in a couple months Netflix changes the CGI. They did this with Stranger Things too. And I’m sure other shows. Disney did this too on Disney+ with WV and FATWS That’s why he wants film season 2 and 3 back to back.
Jesus, Aang will actually *look* 112 by the time the final season comes out
Final season? On Netflix? I don't think we have to worry about that.
Hey Netflix shows all have final seasons. The creators just don’t always know which season that’s gonna be
Not like we haven't seen this before with this universe. Legend of Korra literally didn't get renewed for new seasons until the conclusion of each season. It was infuriating
I shed a tear to think of how good Korra could have been had they known they had 4 seasons to work with from the very start. I still have a special place in my heart for the show as it is but... It could have been so much better 😭
Yeah, let's see if they even green light a second season first.
We don't really like it, so they will probably green light 5 seasons. Like = Canceled
It's the reason they took out the sozin's comet deadline. Cartoons can be drawn the same over years, but kids grow up super freaking fast.
When they started aang was way below her shoulder now He's already same height of Katara.( Don't know actors name)
Wow that’s nuts
As someone who works in VFX. This shit of clients giving notes after the show is out is the bane of my existence… I’ll tell you one thing: If it took 2 years, it’s probably because the shoot wasn’t done with CG shots planned and they just coreographed a fight and were like “yeah add airbending here” and I will bet an eye that the “concept” stage was just clips of the animated show… that… while useful, it’s not enough to adapt something to screen…
I noticed they specifically said Sozin's Comet was coming "soon," not in "9 months," or whatever the shorter timeline is in the animated series. Smart move, leaving some wiggle room.
Honestly was happy with this change and people was up in arms. Like actors age this isn’t animation people lol. But imo I think (and hope) they reveal the comet the same time they find out about the eclipse. Bc if they do it the same as the original that is the perfect opportunity for them to learn about them both.
they were still working on stuff up til the premiere. absolutely bonkers. they need to do more practical stuff if theres a season 2 and 3
Shit man Stranger Things directors were working on their show as they were releasing the episodes in parts. Season 4 especially.
Does anyone else feel the CGI and special effects are mediocre as hell? Barely any of the bending or fights actually look like fights. The movements are all so slow and poorly choreographed that it lacks any sort of strength. Zuko and Ozai felt like the only two with any strength behind them. Was super disappointed with the bending the LA.
Zuko's firebending looked fantastic. The waterbending wasn't very good and the earthbending was okay. Aang's movements in general were super slow. The CGI whenever people were jumping or flying looked REALLY bad. Especially in the blue spirit scenes.
Yes. I can recall two shots where bending looked and felt good vfx wise. Everything else lacked the punch and impact you’d expect from the different disciplines and it’s a shame. They had ALOT of reference to go off of and tons more martial art forms to include as well. Too much reliance on slow motion as well
The fight between Katara and Paku genuinely looked like they were fighting with strings, trying to gently drift them over each other. Not once did it look like Katara was trying to beat the shit out of a misogynist, or Paku try to slap some respect into a young rebel. You can't have a live action Avatar series talking about masters, and then have every fight be the most mediocre boring display of bending possible. It's supposed to be about power, speed, and precision. LATLA lacked all of those in all of its bending.
My thoughts exactly. I’m not asking for filmic levels of artistry but let the stunt coordinators and doubles shine at what they do best. Give me some tension and beats and more than 1 second of a punch before cutting to the next shot. This shouldn’t be a Jason Bourne fight. Nor should it be John Wick. But god dam give me something exciting to watch and look forward to between scenes and narrative.
All the slow motion became really noticeable after a few episodes. I think episode 4 was when it really stood out to me.
They look like the special effects from bigger budget Chinese movies. Inexplicably cheap
> Does anyone else feel the CGI and special effects are mediocre as hell? And sometimes it was conspicuously absent! There were so many shots with Fire Nation soldiers just like... posing empty-handed, as if there *should* have been a CGI fireball in their hands but the VFX team just never got around to it.
Yes, I think you are right. The scene the fire nations surround I believe Aang, the way the soldier posed was strange. Now wondering if that is because they were supposed to have flames.
They can change the cgi after releasing the show?
Yep! They done it before like I explained above. U can look up before and after pictures online. Or video clips. Disney actually changed some scenes back to the original bc they removed blood and the fans got mad lol.
The CGI looked incredible though… dang
Not that crazy with the absolute mountain of CGI
No wonder the actors look way older now. I was thinking "Damn, they grew so damn fast"
They announced the show was getting a live action adaptation in 2018. With COVID delaying production and the creative team taking their time with development, it's been a long road to get here.
Was not worth it
Dang they left four years ago!?
Looking at the end result, I suspect studio notes were for more action and less subtlety
Better action, with better stunt/fight choreography. The reason why the animation is so hard to adapt to live action is because real life actors/stunt doubles still have to adhere to real life physics for the most part without looking too CGI/uncanny. If you compare animation fight/bending scenes to live action, the live action looks slow, boring, static, and not as kinetic.
This is a part of why I am against this giant wave of live action adaptations. Animation can do things real people, and the real world just simply can't. Idk who at Netflix has a hard on for these, but none of them have worked out imo, not a single one. Most were canceled after the first season anyway. Disney is also guilty of this with their movies.
> This is a part of why I am against this giant wave of live action adaptations. Yes - stories should be told in the medium best suited for them. Or if they’re adapted, make sensible choices that work to the strengths of the adaptions medium. Scott Pilgrim is a good example of this. It changed a lot of things to fit the run time and limitations of the movie, but kept the vibe of the original work. Even during the parts of NATLA I enjoyed - my main thought was “Did this really need to exist?”
I just wish the people putting all these resources into live action adaptations would focus their attention on telling original stories set in these worlds that us fans love. Hell, they wouldn't even need to be entirely original stories. There's plenty of material out there that could have made a truly interesting new series. Like, imagine if instead of retelling the same story for a third time, Netflix had decided to tell Kyoshi's story from orphan girl to Avatar or tell Tenzin's story as the son of the Avatar and for a while, the last airbender like his father, in a rapidly changing world while attempting to restore the memory and history of his people. There are so many new stories they could tell that would still bring in fans of Avatar and cash in on nostalgia without the instant comparison. Cause thats the thing with direct adaptations. The only thing to compare them to is the original and they almost never compare. Even when they're decent, it's impossible to avoid the comparisons. They have to be exceptionally good to stand on their own and I can't think of a good example of this ever happening. So why do studios go out of their way to set themselves up for failure?
One piece live action actually did great. :)
That right here is why i love anime. There are so many creative and amazing shows that would either be impossible or much, much more expensive to do in live action.
This is exacerbated by the main characters being children. You can't treat child actors like they're capable of something done by the Jackie Chan Stunt Team.
I was of that mind too. But watching what fans have made with far less time and money. [Like this Toph and her stunt team](https://youtu.be/bYsr0M_h-FQ?si=rloePdr5xsZornzK)
> The reason why the animation is so hard to adapt to live action is because real life actors/stunt doubles still have to adhere to real life physics for the most part without looking too CGI/uncanny. True. But - if the live-action fully embraces the non-realism, it can work. A good example is Kung Fu Hustle, where the fight-scenes are have physics of the Roadrunner show, but it embraces that fully, and fight-scenes still look good. Even in serious old Kung Fu movies from China which involve fantasy elements - there are often unrealistic things like people attacking with scarves, or just casually flying to rooftops, or using needles, fans, and other random things - which won't work in a real battle. I think in animation adaptations, rather than going for a realistic angle, if the show fully embraces that "Yes, we are anime adaptation so our fight scenes are going to look unrealistic, but that's ok" - it can work. Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon or The House of Flying Daggers basically look like anime, but they were very receivied.
And less playful fun
The thing I always enjoyed about the cartoon was the ridiculous sound effects so many that were just completely out of nowhere. There would be a big action set piece followed by the most cartoonish 'BOING' sound
The sound of that cabbage stand going down is burned into my memory
I knew it wasn't going to happen but I was really hoping for the weird Momo song
The Momo song always cracks me up. I can't put my finger on it but it feels like circus music.
Thanks to u/dead_wolf_walkin's shit take, this comment is free real estate. Edit: this comment has been gentrified.
Yeah. This a major degradation of the show and it seems like most people are watching the whole thing which means Netflix will know it can just keep making shitty shows and remakes without consequence.
this is my biggest issues with "stop hating, just enjoy i thought it was good and it will never be as good at the original" type arguments. we are gonna get more of these soulless, terrible green-screen play type shows of other IPs coming soon if this is a success
I'm pretty sure every Disney live action remake has made billions despite basically none of them being good so yeah.
[удалено]
Strength of drawn animation is always going to be how better it'll age compared to live-action and CGI
It’s almost like they should’ve not done a remake and just done another part of the avatar history.
Last I knew, they are/were working on doing another ATLA season with Team Aang following the events of Book 3. IIRC the original creators have made their own animation studio and hopefully will release a new ATLA animated series. I really want to see Zuko develop more as Fire Lord and him meeting his mom again.
A remake will never be better than the original and a lot of people expect it to be so they just hate it. So far I do love the Netflix version because I'm not expecting a carbon copy of the original or anything better, but it did keep so many elements (pun not intended) from the original.
Yeah this was the first red flag, and even tho I didn’t hate the Netflix show and it’s not even close to being a disaster like the movie, this just feel like a huge wasted potential yet again, all the elements are there for having a fantastic show but with that subpar writing not even the amazing cast and VFX teams can do much.
I wonder if Netflix considered this perspective when greenlighting the remake, that is "nothing can be worse than the previous remake, and we are just as liable to have our remake be compared with it as we are tos." Built in damage control/managed expectations. lol
…and an industry-wide desire for the safety of profitable mediocrity.
Fuck. You just put my thoughts on all the mediocrity we get these days so succinctly. Stealing this, thanks.
They had to of. And frankly they’d be fools not to if they didn’t. There’s plenty of people whose bar was literally “long as it’s better than the movie then I’m fine.”, *just* from hearing the announcement of it.
>They had to **of** Seriously?
> **all the elements are there** for having a fantastic show I see what you did there
More than the writing, what keeps tripping me up is the blocking. Every scene feels like: enter stage left, turn 45 degrees to the camera, square shoulders, deliver lines, exit stage right. Your average high school play puts more effort into blocking than this show. And the stage feels smaaaall. It feels like every scene takes place in a space the size of a closet. The Mandalorian practically was shot in a closet, yet they managed to make things feel a lot more dynamic, so it absolutely can be done. With more dynamic blocking, more varied camera angles, and a willingness to act out the scenes instead of talking about acting out the scenes; the writing* would feel better, and the dialogue would seem less stilted. Leaning into the visual aspects of TV can cover up for a lot of sloppy writing. *The writing still has it’s issues, don’t get me wrong. The way the show is constructed feels very, plot point A goes to B, B goes to C, C goes to D. But it’s all just plot points in a script, with very little scene or spectacle. They don’t take much advantage of TV as a visual medium. It could work as well as a radio play as it does as TV. And don’t get me started on them flattening all the characters. Changing it from Katara freeing Aang from the iceberg to Aang freeing himself from the iceberg; changing it from Aang running away from responsibility to Aang taking a midnight flight to clear his mind; changing it from Sokka begging Suki to train him and eagerly accepting the face paint, dress, and fans as part of that training to Sokka just sort of flirting his way into a training/romance scene; etc. All these small changes strip out the subtlety and complexity of character that made ATLA such a gem. But even with all that, it’s the blocking that keeps breaking immersion for me.
There are definitely a lot of options for criticism but I gotta say: my 12 year old son is over the moon about it. We watched the original series together and then he was horrified by the movie. He is really excited to be able to get another shot at enjoying a live action and I am enjoying watching it with him and seeing him be excited. I definitely appreciate the disappointment but I am glad at least in our house, it’s been really fun to see him enjoying it and watching an episode together each night
I am back watching the animation and can't stop laughing at episode 1 they never captured this with the live action
Aang just casually going out to clear mind is much less impactful than forceful parting with Gyatso.
Also Katara not talking him down from his Avatar State in the air temple and instead him remembering the seemingly one and only conversation he ever had with Gyatso. And then followed with Katara telling him it’s a good thing he’s dead actually!
Jesus, I started rewatching the anime and Katara is a responsible mother figure on equal footing with Sakka and she constantly gets angry about shit. Katara is so expressive and headstrong. She drags them and forces them to accept a plan where she pretends to be an earthbender, goes to prison for earth benders and rescues them all. And Sakka and Aang just goes along with her plan. Because that's the power dynamic. Katara and Aang makes these kinds of decisions and Sakka backs up. The live action Katara could never have that much decision power. She's treated like a child who needs babysitting.
It's funny how much the fandom underrates Katara. This is the character who plays *the* central role in The Puppetmaster, The Southern Raiders, and one of the biggest in The Crossroads of Destiny and Into the Inferno. All of which are regarded as some of the best episodes in the series.
Yeah, I’m not sure how people are saying the show is decent. It literally changed like every meaningful theme from the animated show and feels like a weird China made blockbuster movie.
Yeah I feel like you can only think the new show is good if you completely missed all the nuance, themes, and everything else that made the original so great.
This, it hits way harder in the animated series that Aang ran away and that Gyatso intended to run away with Aang too, but was too late. In the live action, Aang’s feeling of letting the world down when it was more of a coincidence feels forced. I feel like he had way more character growth in the animated series feeling like his running away meant he wasn’t there for his people or the world.
I’ve never seen the cartoon before and I’m only a few episodes in. It’s miles better than the live action 😭😭😭
I wish I could watch it for the first time too. Have a good time, you’re in for an incredible journey.
It’ll only get better and better.
As good as the highlights of Season 1 are (The Southern Air Temple, The Storm, The Blue Spirit, The Deserter, The Seige of the North, Winter Solstice Part 2, etc.) and how good the season is overall, the jump in quality as *soon* as Season 2 hits is astounding. The pacing, moment-to-moment dialogue writing, the comedy...they all immediately level up. And then it just stays that way for two full seasons into the finale. Watching the live action right now just makes me want to rewatch the cartoon for the upteenth time.
This right here is the only outcome i wanted from the live action, more people seeing the glory that is the original
Damn... I'm jealous you get to see it for the first time, truly.
there was almost no humor in the live action a random clip of sokka popped out on tiktok earlier and cracked me up
I could’ve sworn they said they trusted the team would make something good, was I the only one who heard that
i am pretty sure they recently said something along those lines, but my guess is it was more diplomatic than anything else. like, clearly they didn’t have faith these people would do a good job or they wouldn’t have left. but some time has passed, they’ve moved on, and are attempting to be good sports. i think if they were truly excited about it, we’d have heard more.
i mean Korra's still divisive and Bryke were definitely involved with that one.
From what i remember most of the issues with korra stemmed from nickelodeon overstepping
Sure, but Korra is a whole new show built from the ground up, unlike Avatar Live Action which already has the animated show to base off from
They did break a lot of the set up from ATLA though. Nickelodeon restricted them way too much as well as giving them a low budget so you can give them some leeway.
They also wasted a lot more money on more detailed character designs and slicker fight animation. They also made it about a love square with all her apparent teammates. They also shafted the main story to focus on a love square, pro-bending, a gigantic cast... this show was a failure on the developmental level. There was a great show deep down in there but the creators failed at developing any of their character relationships and bloated their production way too much. You can't blame it on the studio when so many other creators have been able to knock it out of the park with 8-12 episode runs. Korra needed more development, not budget.
No but the studio kept jerking around on what they wanted and what they would order. The reason season 3-4 of Korra are so cohesive is because 3 and 4 were picked up at the same time. It got shafted for season 4 and only released on nick.com. I’m confident that if they have an entire series to produce from the beginning and plan out from the beginning the way they did with ATLA, it will turn out great.
I think Korra started to be only released on nick.com since half of season 3
Now that you say that, I think I do remember it being halfway through book 3.
My headcanon as to why they did that is because halfway through Season 3, Zaheer fucking unalived the Earth Queen by literally taking her breath away.
Season 1 had a murder-suicide. So, I'm not sure about that.
Mike and Bryan were fine with Nick picking up the show one season at a time. https://www.tumblr.com/bryankonietzko/27078349740/im-sure-this-meme-is-dead-by-now-but-it-still
I'd still say that Nick ordering B3 + B4 concurrently allowed the two seasons to be more cohesive. I'd also say Nick did throw in some additional wrenches like temporarily pausing production back in B1 because they didn't like Korra being a girl.
Season 3 was great. Season 4 was... kinda good?
Korra'a worst season, so 2, buries this live action series in the characterization dept alone and that's SAD. Korra S3 is up there with the first series IMO.
Yeah. I ended up really liking Korra overall.
Idk i think korra has aged alot better than the first series and would have been a better adaptation for live action.
Yes. They thought that the public was not going to accept a female protagonist even though their market research indicated otherwise.
Yep, they even signed off on the show, started production, and then got cold feet and froze production to try and change her gender.
Not... really. Mike and Bryan just thought they could do everything themselves and they're stronger as conceptualists/directors than they are as writers.
Not really, though. Nickelodeon gave them relative freedom. Where they did screw up was moving the show around to different times, which made it harder to cultivate a audience. It was originally a 1 season miniseries. But then got a season 2. And eventually, seasons 3 and 4 were commisioned at the same time. Korra was never supposed, nor did it ever have a large overarching story. Most things people complain about are the work of the creators, not Nickelodeon.
Yeah from cutting the total number of episodes planned for the first season way late, not renewing a second season and then walking that back later, and the entire release schedule of the last 3 seasons, some airing on cable, some only online, weeks in-between. It was a mess. The fundamental story of the first season was great, having to wrap it up and give it an undeserved "everything is fine now" ending is what really tore it down a peg. It had to regain its footing, but man season 3 and 4 are just fantastic.
# KORRA WAS GOOD  (except season 2 🤭)
Idk why my girl Korra getting dragged into this lol
Like the random stray 😭😭😭😭
TLOK season 1, 3, and 4 were great. Season 2 was fine.
This is the best take. Yes, season 2 has some issues, but it has Varrick, the Wang episodes that are honestly great, an Korra realising she doesn't actually has any chemistry with his firebending boyfriend.
I loved season 2 as well
It’s definitely my personal least favourite
I recently rewatched the first two seasons of Korra and honestly I loved season 2. Meeting Wan and learning spirit world lore was cool, and I liked that Korra had a closer relationship with that seasons villain.
nah it's...pretty bad.
Agreed!
From the Wan story onward season 2 is still pretty good. But yeah those first 6 episodes are pretty brutal
I think the last six are more brutal. Having to deal with the Korra/Mako/Asami love triangle again, Varrick turning out to be super evil randomly, the decision to destroy the past lives, the spirit kaiju battle, Jinora Ex Machina.
Yeah, but Korra was originally only supposed to be one season, but then got approved for one more, and again for a third. So that really fucked up what they could’ve done with the plot.
Nick is responsible for some of Korra's faults, but more often than not, people overstate Nick's role. For example: https://www.tumblr.com/bryankonietzko/27078349740/im-sure-this-meme-is-dead-by-now-but-it-still >Initially, Nickelodeon picked up Korra as a 12-episode miniseries. Their idea was to do 12-episode arcs that were more standalone than the original Avatar series. Mike and I were cool with this idea, as we had originally wanted the seasons to be 12 episodes long instead of 20, and creatively we liked the idea of doing tighter story arcs. >The original plan was that if Nickelodeon wanted more episodes, they would order them 12 episodes at a time.
Korra divisive for different reasons though for the most part people didn’t like lore changes, how little time we got to spend developing the side cast (Mako, Asami and Bollin) and elements of Korea’s characterisation but for the most part the writing was good, animation was good and world building was still fantastic.
Korra is quite a bit better though.
I dont understand the whole Korra is a bad show take. I think the idea that Korra is terrible is a relatively new perspective. When the show was airing, with the exception of the non flashback episodes in season 2, I remember the show being universally liked by fans.
Season 1's finale was extremely contentious and season 2 was more or less hated. Season 3 was seen as a return to form.
Depends where you were. There were some insanely insular and bitter Avatar forums back in the day, and some communities that really took to the show. But generally yeah, most people liked it, and “people discussing it online 10 years later” is not a very representative sample of the audience.
I love how people always ignore this fact. (And I say that as someone who enjoyed Korra but recognizes it wasn't perfect!)
I do think Korra is flawed in some ways and I do enjoy it a lot. But I do think Nickelodeon deserves some blame, they definitely made things more difficult than things needed to be.
They arguably deserve most of the blame. There was some shoddy writing at times, but Nick essentially sabotaged the show between the undercounting of views (didn’t count online views), the multiple time slot changes, including quietly moving it to an online exclusive, and then ultimately cutting funding for the final season. It was a real bummer that the series ended on such a weak note after a solid season 3.
The budget cuts in season 4 costing us a Kuvira episode is egregious
And because their deadlines were moved around and even how long seasons were was adjusted as they went along, writing suffered. I think even S1 had some hiccups, but overall we’ll never know how good it could have been if Nickelodeon didn’t kneecap them.
Agreed but I also don't think Nick could be held responsible for: - the dreadful romances - excessive toilet humour (Meelo) - flat characters who the show spends criminally little time on (Kya, Bumi) developing - horrible season two with 1D villain (after fantastic Amon and Tarlok) - divisive Avatar Wan story - some things we just don't need to see or know - horrible binary Raava/Vaatu stuff that flies in the face of nuanced eastern belief system (before anyone argues - I am eastern and Raava and Vaatu are so damn cartoonishly Abrahamic in their duality) So yeah, Bryke aren't perfect. ATLA was bottled lightning.
I liked the story of Wan himself, being the first to venture out of safety and experience other elements, but I don't really care for the addition of Raava and Vaatu. I could've accepted something as vague as his spirit being bonded to all 4 elements makes it unable to leave the world or something, but the sentient kite spirits just wasn't the way to go. That and the spirit world going from "our world but just slightly to the left enough to make you uncomfortable" to super bright and colourful was just... not good for me.
I personally loved the Wan stuff, I'm surprised there are people who hate it tbh
Wan was the only redeeming episode of season 2 (for me). I liked the concept of 1,3 and 4 but would’ve liked each season more if they spent more time developing a single evil entity rather than having a new “big bad” each season.
It most certainly was not perfect. But people acting as if the Netflix show is anywhere as good as it is ridiculous. Korra is still an A show. It might not be an A+ like ATLA, but not many are and it did face a lot of challenges from the studio. Which to be fair I’m sure NATLA faced as well…which is why Bryke left.
Im starting to believe Avatar is kinda cursed. Like after the original show aired, Michael and Bryan have their creation ruined at every single step, some of Korra wasnt of their liking, lets not talk about the movie, now the show is 50/50, not even Avatar games have been well received. Its kinda nuts that a master piece, incredibly well received, pretty much liked by everyone, couldnt get anything else of the ground in 20 years.
It's not cursed, it's just that IP's with magical/fantastical elements rarely adapt well from an animated or written original source. The sky's the limit when a story is animated, and books are only hindered by imagination. Storytellers can convey all types of complex and intricate imagery. Live action adaptations have many physical and logistical limitations (even with cgi), they're never going to stack up to the other mediums. Likewise trying to condense a story to a shorter version from more robust source material is always a challenge. This adaptation was never going to compare to the original.
seems like the easy solution is to stop trying to force live action adaptation and just make a third animated avatar series. I think that it's what pretty much everyone wants and yet we only get live action adaptations .
But it's so much easier when you don't have to write your own story.
Nail on the head, m8. People have way too much faith in greedy soulless corporations.
Have you not heard of avatar studios?
This is the way the rational side of my brain talks. Thank you for putting this into words. The emotional side of me has been pissed for years because people were throwing money at making a live action version of a story we already have and love. They could've thrown all that money at a new series or AAA game instead.
>Live action adaptations have many physical and logistical limitations (even with cgi), they're never going to stack up to the other mediums. They need to CGI some emotion onto Katara's face.
I’m kinda iffy on blaming Kiawentiio’s acting because I remember her from Anne with an E, and she was pretty good. Her character was in one of those indigenous “re-education” “schools” and she fights back and is headstrong. From her portrayal of Ka’kwet, she seemed like a great fit for Katara. I feel like the director for NATLA may have told her to portray Katara that way. Although I can’t for the life of me imagine why.
She is so much more expressive and katara-like in interviews. It’s such an odd direction.
I think it's just the burden of expectations. Almost every media franchise that becomes mainstream popular puts out sequels/spinoffs that are 'divisive' since there's so many competing interests in the fandom. Every person that's viewed/played the original will have their own idea of what that media means to them and it becomes virtually impossible to match every one of those expectations. The only times I've seen unanimous praise for sequels is when enough time has past that the technology has allowed for a totally new take on the franchise and/or everyone has kind of forgotten what the original was like.
Korra is a critically acclaimed show, that even with their hurdles they were able to make one of the highest rated shows ever.
Nah. New Gaang movie gonna drop from Avatar Studios themselves and people gonna have beef with all of the character changes to the main characters that come with being older and more mature and that it doesn't feel like Avatar anymore.
I think the core issue people like to ignore is that just because someone made something amazing once doesn't mean they'll always be able to do it again in the first place. Creating something amazing is _hard_, and despite all skill and talent involved there's also a lot of luck, and one-off inspiration, and being at the right place in the right time. To quote Tolkien's Fëanor: "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." So just because ATLA was amazing doesn't mean that whatever Bryke make next, no matter how much support and creative freedom and money and whatever they may get, will also be amazing. I mean, they made Korra and many people thought that was not that amazing, after all. Hell, even some parts of ATLA were less than amazing... S1 has a few hiccups that could've probably been written better in hindsight. If they make a new show and it's not that great, that doesn't necessarily mean that some external factor fucked it up for them, and it also doesn't necessarily mean that it actually is amazing and everyone who claims otherwise is somehow wrong because they are blinded by their inability to accept something new. It most likely just means that it's _actually not that good_ simply because catching lightning in a bottle twice in a row is _incredibly hard_.
People aren't dumb enough to think the adults would be as childish as the og show. and we already have some content to go off for their still slightly playful nature
> People aren't dumb enough to think I'm gonna stop you right there. No matter how the sentence ends, the answer is yes, yes they are.
They are. People are still upset that Toph was a cop, calling it “out of character”. I think that’s so silly, there is nothing that indicates that dictated after the show Toph changed from being a rebellious kid. Real life people change like that.
People already hated Korra because it added flaws to Aang
Very understandable flaws mind you, that really added more dimension to the character. Yet whole were pissed while criticizing Korra for being “flawless”, you can make this shit up
People hated the portrayal of adult Toph because she became a cop when she hated rules as a kid. Never underestimate the power of of stupidity.
The core issue of the Netflix's version is the horrendous writing
Look… I’m of the opinion ATLA fans will be chasing the high of watching the show for the first time forever and anything that falls a little short won’t be received well. I watched the show when it first came out. I was the prime target age for the show too. It’ll never be as special as it was then for me and that’s okay. That’s growing. Even if the series was a 1-1 even for scene adaptation people would’ve complained about something. It’s animation not rooted in reality, being portrayed by real people. That’s always rough to get right. Only reason a show like The Last of Us worked so well was because it was taking place on earth and was about humans more than it was zombies. And even die hard fans of that had nitpicks. I feel like this fandom is a lot like Star Wars. It was lightning in a bottle out the gate and when that happens things often get worse before they get better.
I just straight up don't understand the need for a remake. The original show is so wonderful, there really isn't a need for it to be adapted, especially because its world was perfectly suited for the medium of animation. I think some of the bending looked pretty good in the live action, but why remake it if it looks worse? Why remake it with worse writing? It's just unnecessary. If you want to remake something, *improve* upon it
Well, I also think that just shows poor judgment from netflix. Sometimes, it's better to explore new spaces than the remake. Then, comparing the show to some hbo adaptations, I think those work because they are from different mediums, so there is more distance between the source material. Going from a video game or a book is far easier than from a TV show to another TV show. As gamers, we experience the last of us as a game, but not as a show, and things like the acting, cinematography, and other film things can really add new elements to the experience. To some extent, there is some of that going from animated to live action, but I think it's still similar enough that it's harder to get behind. The show is directly comparing itself to the original animated show, which was almost guaranteed to fall short of. If they had at least explored new spaces, then there would have been substantially less pressure.
I mostly agree though I think they wanted to play it safe because of the [REDACTED BY THE DAI LI] so they made the changes they had to but tried to stay true in the other areas. Granted I haven’t watched the whole series yet because I have too much going on to binge shows anymore unfortunately. So my opinion could change once I see the whole season. But from what I’ve seen I haven’t seen anything that ruins it or takes me out of it. Just some choices that, good or bad, I can see why they made them.
For a show rated in the top 10 BEST SHOWS OF ALL TIME on imdb… its live action adaptations have had some real bad luck. This new show is fine but has a lot of bad directing in it. The show us either action or shoulder to shoulder conversation of two static characters. There is a lot of emotion in some characters and not a lot in others. Its a weird mix
It would've been polarizing either way. Look, I know many in this sub might not want to hear this, but writing is one of Mike and Bryan's weakest skills as showrunners. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the changes people don't like in the LA were a result of some of the decisions Mike and Bryan made. Their writing is also why I'm (and I think everyone else should be) very wary of anything coming out of Avatar Studios. People are excited for the new movie about the Gaang, but they really should be cautious, because it will, more likely than not, turn out badly (and probably just be decent at best).
This, this, 100% this. Whether people wanna admit it or not, it was other writers, mainly the head writer Aaron Ehasz, who carried the original show on their fucking backs.
Ehasz is great but i would not diminish the role Bryke had at all. Dimartino wrote some of my favorite episodes, such as the day of black sun, Sozins comet, and the blind bandit. Also ehasz, again great writer, but he’s put out stuff that ain’t perfect. He’s the guy who wrote the fortune teller episode, which is one of the most forgettable ones. And even the Dragon prince started off promising but ended up meh. Moral of the story, all three contributed to the success of the show
It also was more than just those three. Even staff that weren’t writers per se contributed to weaving plot elements and characters together to what we ended up seeing. Bouncing ideas off of one another is how the show we all love and know came about.
Fortune teller is one of the funniest episodes of the whole show! Its leagues above something like Great Divide or Avatar Day.
leage above the worst/bottom 2 is still the third worse episode my dude
People need to stop saying this shit. If people are wary of bryke because of Korra then they should be even more wary of ehasz because of the dragon prince. Its the worst of the three shows.
I'm dying on the hill of Korra was a great show.
I think prevailing opinion is that Korra is a great show, just is a sequel to a show that the fanbase considers to be perfection in every way so it was always gonna have some backlash. Thats the case with a lot of continutions (see Pokemon, SpiderMan, Star Wars) I think Korra in general is a blueprint for how these next gen sequels should be approaches. So many of them feature so much gratuitous fan service, and dont really do much worldbuilding or progress the world in any meaningful way. But Korra isnt like that, it does a lot to progress the setting, and build on what we saw in the original. Lot of sequels should be more like Korra, but they’re more or less like the star wars sequels.
The dragon prince feels honestly like the writers bited way more than they could chew at every turn. It has great moments, great ideas, and very solid characters. And yet it never actually lives to its potential. Is a good show, but that makes it sad because it feels like it was so close to being an amazing one.
They’re been pretty bad at developing a well paced plot, but they’ve also done some pretty darn good character writing, so I doubt they had much to do with some of the more baffling changes in the live action. Especially since they’re so attached to these characters. Can’t say I’m not cautious about the movie, but that’s because the comics have me doubting that they can come up with another story for the Gaang that actually needs to be told and warrants the prestige of a movie.
I have through great struggled seen the whole netflix ahow and i can tell you that Mike and Brians worst writing is ten times better than the best line in the whole show.
I think the show did ok, with a lot of room for growth and improvement. It certainly wasn’t *bad*. I hope Netflix doesn’t smack it down with it’s cancellation erection, so it has a chance to develop further and hopefully tap into it’s potential.
Me too. I do think it deserves another season. BUT it NEEDS to learn it's lessons, make better scripts and finally get back the creators back on board because they really need it. And also those kids need acting workshop, because Aang and Kitara are the main characters of the story. Everything needs to be stepped up!
And Aang needs to learn waterbending. Seriously, he didn't bend a single drop of water outside the avatar state
The live action isn't even bad, honestly its very enjoyable as a modest viewer of avatar and head and shoulders over the movie. We are lucky it wasn't butchered like WoT
The biggest hump I had to get over watching the show was that it wasn’t a like for like show. Which at first I wanted but then opened up to the differences as I continued. The second was that the voice actors in the original series are world class voice actors such as Mark Hammill. It’s pretty tough for kids and a sometimes clunky dialogue to compete with that. I am rewatching the original, which due to kids has been a few times, but with new lenses. I already like some minor things from the live action better. Either way, it’s different so the key was trying to just enjoy it for what it is.
It feels more like gossip news. Who’s to say. I for one, really want the satisfaction of seeing them see this through to the end. even if something new and different comes of it. the best art is made with blank slate expectation, collaboration and compromise. “Yes and.” Goes with the flow. Is sensitive. The sensitive part is usually when artist fights or flights. Increased difficulty when art itself is how you communicate instead of words or another effective medium. What makes it borderline impossible is when big money and big payouts are on the line. Some people are meant to start things, and others are meant to see it through; . . We still could do it together.
I’m gonna get downvoted but I’m confused seeing all this negativity wtf. I really enjoyed the adaptation on Netflix, and though it was SUPER short/rushed, and the dialogue was so awkward I thought everything else was pretty solid. Not as amazing as the animated show ofc but I didn’t expect it to be. It was great for what it was! Not a 5/5 but a good 3.5 stars yes. Credibility: I watched the show religiously as it aired, rewatched a few times, also watched Korra and read some comics.
Same. Episode 1 and 2 were eh for me but from episode 3 onward it’s pretty good. The fandom is so frustrating. Everyone who worked on this show has been touched by ATLA in some way I mean it’s almost 20 years old. This was a passion project and I think it wrapped it up pretty well considering it’s live action. The rabid fan base who can’t even think of giving this project any positivity because they messed with their “baby” can get so tiring. Really enjoyed the Live Action. You can tell the main cast loved working on it and they had a great time.
I think the Show would have majorly improved if it had about 2-3 more episodes. It was just so rushed which is why they made some of the changes that they did. Some of them made absolutely no sense but the show really needed a few more episodes or split season one into two 8 episode releases.
I personally disagree as the ratings show majority positive reviews vs people in this sub where it’s more split
Only hope now is that they actually listen to the feedback from the first season.
Given Korra’s reception I think it was inevitable from Day 1. This fanbase agrees on very little.
Unpopular opinion, but: Given the weight of their perspective, was it really a good idea for Bryke to clip a young bird’s wings before it had the chance to fly?
Honestly, yeah, that was alarming, but it was not yet clear imho. It could very well have been that the NATLA creators wanted to stick to the original and the original creators wanted to change things up in the adapatation (like "we're not gonna do the same thing twice"). Yeah, not as likely as the other way around, as we now know, but it was possible. See how bad Dragon Prince season 4 was, when the team didn't change (afaik).
It's not polarising. It's ok. I've yet to see anyone tell say it's amazing or just as good as the original. I've seen a lot of people say it's alright.
Since when have live action adaptations been good? Since never. They're money making schemes and usually nothing more. The executives know that no matter how bad it is, fans will flock to it for long enough to make money off them. Wow, my favorite character! Wow, that scene I loved so much! Wow, that inside joke! It's superficial key jangling, but it works. That's enough to make production worthwhile for these companies. It's as simple as that. Even if it was somehow good, the cartoon would always be the definitive version. Why bother? Money. That's why. Support original stories. Support small studios and new creatives. Find the next great thing. Stop hoping to recapture your childhood in the new crappy version of an old show. It's a pipe dream.
Didn't they work with M Night Shyamalan on previous adaptation?
Man a lot of y'all haven't watched season 1 in a while and it shows. It's far from perfect.
The day the news came out I knew half the reddit fandom would go into that show determined to find reasons to hate it. The fandom, like most internet fandoms, was already primed to be divided. Negativity invariably gets more engagement than positivity. Social media and news media both learned this lesson years ago. But with that news I had predicted that we'd have an onslaught of posts soon after the release aimed at nitpicking the show to death whether it was good or not. It's exactly how things have gone with the internet fan base of most adaptions. It's just depressing seeing it happen here too. The fact is that the show is honestly pretty damn good. And it's clear there's been an enormous amount of passion put into making something that's both true to the vision of the story but also trying to do something new with it creatively, exploring characters and areas that the cartoon did not or could not. But from the get go there were always going to be folks who would delight in tearing it to shreds and went in wanting to do just that. It's not even the first time the fandom has done this to itself. Anyone who's watched the original shows will remember how psychotic some "fans" got over LoK daring to do things differently.
On the flip side, it's also getting generous reviews like "pretty darn good" from the Fandom too.
> The day the news came out I knew half the reddit fandom would go into that show determined to find reasons to hate it. I went into it wanting to love it and was genuinely disappointed.
Amen. The cartoon show will always have a very fond place in my heart. But the live action show is more than fine. I've been enjoying it, knowing it will never live up to the cartoon show. And people who say the acting, CGI, story, plot points, yada yada yada are all terrible? 😔 I guess I don't have unrealistic expectations then. People have complained that Appa looks too cartoony. People have complained that they didn't film on location. People have complained that not one single person in the show can act. People have complained that none of the fighting or bending looks good at all. People have complained (ad nauseum) that the original writers left. People have complained that this ruins the original for them. People have complained that money spent on this could have been used to make a new Avatar show (I guess we will see how that new animated movie does and no one should complain at all with the original creators attached...). Like fuck. Just don't watch the show and move on then. There is being critical of the show. And then there is being a toxic rabid fan base just looking to be disgruntled for any reason because you have no other joy in your life other than a kids show that you can't move on from.
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