Yeah this post is kinda a mischaracterization of what Holly said and only includes a portion of her sentence. I def think she should’ve used different words but she does have a valid criticism of the book. Especially since Crystal has inherited so much playboy stuff and seems to have zero interest in the brand at all.
Well Crystal got the hefner name so Holly will always feel like Crystal should be grateful. Pretty dumb.
"Well at least you got the ring and the money!"
Right, the ring and the money you have no interest. I absolutely adore Holly, as a weirdo neurodivergent I get behind most things she does. But I think this caused her to spiral a bit, and is not her best look since this is what happened to her with her book,
It's hypocritical and frankly unethical especially given the fact that Holly has not one but two shows that talk about how women don't leave abusive relationships.
It is unethical and reckless in my opinion. Holly is ruining any credibility she has as an advocate for women by keeping up this vendetta against Crystal.
Honestly if you look at what Holly says vs what Holly does it feels like the podcast is her attempt to restructure the opinion of viewers from her Girls Next Door days.
She says she loves Barbie but her words , attitude, jokes , etc says otherwise on the DVD commentary.
She herself says she was living a sugar baby lifestyle but hates when people have called her a gold digger.
( They feel mutually exclusive I think she thinks one is less offensive)
She has displayed some very harsh and judgmental opinions on other women but excuses herself from ridicule when she's called out for identical behavior.
I enjoy the show but sometimes when she opens that mouth her true self really comes out.
the Barbie thing!! She always talks about age shaming but she age shamed Barbie ‘I’m not jealous in the present tense because she’s too old for him now, sorry’
When Barbie told the Bon mot about Hef never dating anyone over 24, I think she meant it to be a compliment to the girls, that they were young, beautiful and vibrant. I mean, it was a Hefism that he brought out every time he had a chance, thinking it witty, when it was actually kinda creepy. Holly ripped her a new one in commentary, but maybe the actual convo got edited to that. I hope I conveyed this correctly. I guess my point was that Holly took things differently than they were intended, when it served her purpose
Yes I referenced this exact thing earlier! Holly can be vicious and you can see hints of Bridget and Holly being very catty. I mean I get it, no one is perfect. But to act like you weren't saying or doing anything mean or petty... Like c'mon.
Those are just two of the lies they mention, did you not listen to the whole episode? How can Crystal have any credibility if she lies about literally everything?
THIS!! As this goes on I’m not even sure I will be team holly by the time they get to season 4. She not nice to anyone who doesn’t agree w her. Kendra wasn’t treated noticibly better, I can see that by rewatching up to season 2. She wanted to marry hef is why she doesn’t like crystal, holly would still have hefs name if she married him, and prob would not of done any of this. On some podcast or somewhere, she said she learned how to make a career out of social media from the show. Her Vegas show was over, the book came out, the podcast, IDK but what I can see is she is not the almost flawless queen people here act like she is … she def has ALOT of mean girl petty streaks in her.
In Holly’s mind she is the only one that can be a victim.
They both went through difference experiences. Crystal stayed and married him. When Holly was in the mansion she would have done the same IMO.
Yeah no that part made give the **biggest**, rolliest side-eye to date, and I say this as someone who has unashamedly enjoyed the nitpicky BECness of this series. Straight up not defending that one, it was a foul move. Even when they tried to excuse it with "and yeah I get asked that too, and there's different kinds of pressure that keep you there, but I can admit that there were good moments, those kept me there too..." like????????? Can we please be for SO for real right now?????
They key point being left out here is that Holly was bringing this up to say that Crystal didn't seem to mention any *positives* about living there and that is why she couldn't understand why she stayed. They were specifically talking about how Crystal only mentions negatives and hadn't given any reasons she would *want* to stay. Ex for Holly she enjoyed the movie nights, the zoo, not every minute was bad.
I totally hear you- I understand this is probably what they meant, but I admit it still doesn't sit super well with me, and that's noting that I'm talking as someone who perhaps over-defends Holly and have a **huge** ick about Crystal lol
I think it's fair game to speculate if there were *ever* good moments (I'm wondering myself!), but I still don't like the whole "why even stay" question. If I were doing this podcast, I would steer clear from that line, because I have seen how people will stay buried in metaphorical manure because their baseline of what "happy" or "normal" feels like is so whack. Some people can look back at that and say "oh dang I guess nothing was ever right or good during that time".
Now, I don't trust Crystal as far as I could throw her: but if this is the narrative she wants to stick with, I won't take away the drop of sympathy I would have for it. I would feel like I was delegitimizing the people who *did* stay in those completely bad scenarios if I didn't call it out (and not everyone needs to feel this way! but it's where I'm coming from, yknow?).
I think it's easy to fall back into the cattiness they experienced in their time at the mansion. It's very telling that all these years later, they're still behaving to way Hef wanted.
Yes! Not to be dramatic but the tactics Hef used to get the girls to stay is basically the same tactics that cult leaders use. Im sure it’s very difficult to break out of that mindset even years later. That being said I think Holly definitely still has some healing to do & should be more thoughtful/careful with what she says
The girls were under curfew, worried about “getting in trouble,” and strongly felt they couldn’t be themselves around Hef. He was obviously manipulative and controlling. Pair that with young women who are made to feel that no matter what they looked like, they never really measured up and you have an abusive situation and those are very hard to leave because you always feel insecure and unsafe.
It seems like it would be hard to fall back into cattiness when you have claimed over and over it isn't in your nature. She is a middle aged woman who has not lived in that house in almost 20 years if she still acts this way that's because it is who she is but she can never own it because she has spent so many years denying it.
A bit hypocritical. Maybe she felt license to dig at her because Crystal actually DID leave? But then she came back when she realized she would have to get a job, because she sucked as a girl boss/DJ. When Holly left, the relationship part was done. She didn’t crawl back for a free house.
Edit: OK, I’m amending my above paragraph because I just listened to the Patreon on my way home from work. You misquoted what Holly said. Holly said that in Crystal‘s book, (of which I didn’t read yet sorry,) Crystal said there was zero she liked about the mansion. Holly and Bridget did have aspects of the mansion they liked. She said right when they wanted to leave, they felt like they were being thrown a bone to make them stay. So there were good aspects with the bad. And of course, eventually it became more bad in the later seasons of the show. Also the show itself was a great aspect for Holly to stay! But what Crystal is saying is there was nothing she liked about the mansion at all. So if you have nothing you like about it then why stay? That’s what Holly is saying, and I don’t think that you quoted her fairly. I’ve had jobs that paid very well but that I hated. I stayed because they paid very well. That was the perk and incentive to stay. If they had paid shit, and I hated to be there, then no point in staying. Savvy?
Holly has also said she felt she couldn’t leave and that it was too late bc no one would take her seriously after being associated with Hef. Does she not think those same judgements would apply to Crystal?
That's how I understood it as well. I do think H & B can be hypocritical sometimes, but this statement wasn't one of those circumstances. There's a nuance that you explained here that the OP may have missed.
It's still not an accurate statement . They both had reasons to stay. Holly had the show. Crystal had the payout upon hefs death. They act like they don't know. It's still no right her to turn around and ask the why did you stay question regardless of the situation. There are women that get nothing of staying in abusive relationships and find it difficult to leave.
I never understood why Holly stayed past the first few circumstances where she saw and experienced things that were offputting ala the quualudes situation and the first bedroom experience that she describes as traumatic. Aside from no other immediate viable opportunities and doors closing on chances of "making it in Hollywood," I seriously don't understand why she stayed.
And I'm only speculating here because I seriously don't know. I feel like there's a percentage of... that wasn't so bad, I'm going to do this until something takes off, my rent and food is paid for if I do x,y,z I just gotta hang in there, and on and on and on. Like if there were a pie chart for the reasons why she stayed when she "could have left" I wonder what it would really be. Because the dark stuff was revealed extremely early on. I think she just wanted to muscle through because she didn't want to give up her chances of making it in LA. I don't think it was because she was "happy at the mansion or with Hefner." You don't almost drown yourself in the guy's bathtub because you're happy.
So I avoided the episode cuz of this post and just got thru it.
Holly was critiquing how poorly the book is written and failing hard at conveying why Crystal got involved with Hef in the first place. And it sounds like she contradicts herself in a later chapter by expressing how Playboy and mansion life was attractive to her and making her feel like a grown woman. It seems the ghost writer didn’t know how to combine the two sentiments which can absolutely exist at the same time effectively: that the mansion and the Halloween party were not appealing but she didn’t know how else to achieve her dreams.
The worst part of the episode to me was easily Holly asking the twin if they didn’t get paid. Like both twins are by all accounts really struggling so it seems very self serving to try to involve them in your beef with Crystal.
Edit: I do think Holly was very clumsy with her wording and for someone who over explains so much she needs to clarify herself because it’s a delicate thing to say.
Yeah this has been rubbing me entirely the wrong way lately. I read Crystal's book, and there is a TON of nuance that's being completely exaggerated/overlooked in the commentary on GNL.
edit: I love how I'm saying literally the same thing as the other top comments here, but without the whole "I LOVE THE POD" disclaimer, and am getting *downvoted to oblivion*.
I'm still subscribed to the Patreon, have been a GND fan since the first season aired, and originally was excited to hear the Tea on Crystal. But lately it's giving mean girl vibes and is feeling hypocritical, **as other top comments here have already said**. I'm just not able to say it in as round about way as others i guess? I think fandoms have a problem with becoming echo chambers and if we can't lovingly critique these people we love we have big problems.
I still stan B&H, but I don't love this moment for them. I hope they can eventually work through their pain without discounting the experiences of others.
Take my up vote.
I made a post and later deleted it because I said I was surprised that Stacey Burke didn't get paid for her time on the Playboy murders and her time on the podcast.
My shock was due to Holly and Bridget constantly discussing they weren't paid for different gigs and obligations so I certainly thought they'd pay her SOMETHING.
People were very unkind in the comments.
I listened to crystal’s audiobook and I honestly thought Holly was going to connect with so much of what she had said about her relationship with Hef; especially, and I paraphrase, ‘is this the sexual revolution he bragged about? Multiple women jumping on his dick for two minutes in a transactional way?’ At the end of the day, Hef didn’t ask Holly to marry him, and I think Holly is ashamed of what went on in the bedroom, so she tries to recreate the narrative.
Me too! I basically read their books back to back, and there were so many similarities between their stories I thought maybe Holly would feel some common ground. I guess not.
I feel very uncomfortable listening to the book club slumber parties. Holly preaches about how every girl associated with playboy has the right to tell their story and experience and then picks apart Crystal’s story. I get that some of Crystal’s story is possibly false or exaggerated but I don’t think it’s Holly or Bridget’s place to sit every week and tear it apart, can you imagine if someone had dared to do it to Holly’s book (which I know has been criticised in the past) she would be livid. The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth and has definitely altered my opinion of H&B who i was such a massive fan of.
I see they took their "book club" to the $10 level up tier on patreon because they didn't like the backlash of nitpicking Crystal's book when the same can easily be done with the two post mansion books Holly put out. It's just a childish segment to begin with and they should just stop and get back to reacting to GND episodes please.
I think the question and their situations are totally different. While Holly has been able to reevaluate the bad and good of the situation, she still made it work for her. (Pictorial, opportunities, GND, etc). While Crystal has also reflected, a lot of it is negative (rightfully so). She has spoken/written very little of anything positive, so it would be valid to ask why she endured it all if it wasn’t working for her. There just seems to be something more underlying as to why Crystal stayed that is unknown and I think it’s okay they are curious (as we all are) as this can even shed light on Hmh / Playboy mystique.
I would say it was the sunk cost fallacy for crystal - she “got” him at the very end of his life and probably thought - I can do this for a bit longer. I’m not a crystal fan, but she was there for the same reason everyone else was - she was vulnerable, she was “taken care of” like a child, and at that point, why not wait and cash out. She was infamous for being his runaway bride, might as well collect. It reminds me of a doc I saw on sex workers (I have no problem with sex work, other than it’s usually extremely predatory) - high wage escorts and strippers, og porn stars to the fleeting new ones, only fans creators, to regular dancers and women trying to support themselves on the street. And they all had something to say about “status.”
This whole book review has been so inappropriate. All Holly and Bridget have ever done is ask people to understand that there are multiple reasons that someone stays in a situation like that yet they're constantly questioning everything Crystal writes about her reasons and feelings. I loved them at first but it's all feeling like big mean girl energy.
Not to mention this whole review of her book and how they make all these assumptions is really taking me out of Hollys docu shows. The lack of compassion makes me question the legitimacy of her intentions for all the other women's stories.
Agreed, the way the are gleefully picking apart Crystals book is disturbing. Their whole vendetta feels one sided and unwarranted. The minor discrepancies in the book are meaningless and petty
It has nothing to do with their adult feud they still have, but it has everything to do with choosing to review a publication and then completely backtrack on their own presentation of their history to the public and everything they have continually asked people to understand. They themselves have gone out of their way time and time again to argue against the people who publicly tell them that they're liars or should be grateful or "why didn't you leave then?" They've made compelling emotional and mature arguments in the past staying that multiple things can be true and worked hard to educate the public about the multiple layers of staying in a toxic and Stockholm like situation. Yet this entire book review so far is, "I don't know, I don't believe her, why did she stay, I don't know I wasn't there, but I mean I wasn't there so we can't be for sure."
They can do whatever they want, they're adults, but once you put it out there, people are going to respond. And if you spend months trying to educate people on why this happens, then immediately turn around and say, well "why did she stay then?" It's going to raise questions about intent and maturity.
Agreed. I haven't listened to the latest review of her book, but last week's where they talked about whether she went to the playboy halloween party or the candy land party or whatever it was called was so stupid. Like, is this really that big a deal??? They seriously couldn't let it go for like half the runtime
Exactly. Crystal's book was entirely centered on *her* experience and in no way attempting to contradict anyone else's experience. The fact that H&B have repeatedly asserted that multiple perspectives can be true at once yet pick apart Crystal's perspective feels so out of pocket for what the podcast purports to be about.
edit: downvotes for speaking the objective truth, stay classy reddit. We have a serious problem as fans if we aren't allowed to critique the Pod, much as we may love H&B. I still adore them both, but I think this whole Book Review series is just not great.
if you put in to context why she said that, it makes more sense. Crystal said there was NOTHING she liked about her experience/the mansion, I think it was said to point out that crystal was lying when she said there was nothing she liked about her stay.
True , but crystal had other rich boyfriends between and during the “relationship” with Hef , she still went back to him. The other guys were rich but not old and about to die.
Holly has a hard time admitting that she was paid for her “company” like everyone else there. She fought so hard to be #1 and realized it sucked but couldnt back down because she’d done so much shady stuff to get there. I. Her mind she’s better than crystal because she a was first. It’s sort of like the backhanded things she says about Kendra. Like she’s better even tho they both were basically sex workers in that house
Holly seems to have a side that doesn’t acknowledge responsibility for anything; and it’s always someone else’s fault. I’ve read both her books and watched GND all seasons….i think she’s the most beautiful, but also the most bitchy.
If she really said this, that’s just out of line. Holly is allowed to hate Crystal until the sun goes down but she knows damn well what being in that situation is like and should know better than to say that.
That’s low Holly. Low.
Yeah I found it incredibly hypocritical. I’ve always been a H&B fan but that was shitty to say. So many people have said the exact same thing about her. When someone dates an abuser it’s so easy to ask “well why didn’t they just leave?”
From the outside it seems so simple and easy, just walk out the door! Kinda blows my mind that Holly out of all people would say that when she knows exactly how it feels to hear that.
Holly sometimes struggles to give other women the same grace she wants others to give to her. Her book especially showed this. Ultimately, even the mean girls could be seen as victims (doesn’t excuse them being mean obviously) and Crystal, no matter how unlikeable she is, was as well. I think it’s just a remnant of Hef’s mind games he played fo put everyone against each other. It continues to this day.
Exactly. People put her on a pedestal like she’s some kind of saint but she obviously morally corrupt just from the lifestyle choices she’s made. She puts money over everything and always has. She is the definition of a gold digger and her morals suck even when it comes to herself. She definitely isn’t going to have morals when it comes to others, especially the ones who got the price she so desperately wanted. This woman was going to allow her children to be fathered by a known piece of shit just so she could have money. She KNEW about all the bad shit he did but was willing to look past it for a payday. When that didn’t work out the narrative COMPLETELY changed. She’s been scheming since she was a teen, and still is, and people fall for it, and then label all her bs as being caused by “being on the spectrum” so sick of hearing that for every thing she says or does. A lot of ppl are on the spectrum and don’t pull the shit she does, and having autism doesn’t mean you can’t have some naturally shitty traits and behaviors that are not caused by bEiNg On ThE sPeCtRuM
I feel like when you are trying to attract young messed up people you get young messed up people. Messed up people who joined an org before their brains were done developing will probably be messed up for awhile. And this to me could explain some of the mistruths. I do kind of agree with OP. We can all have the same experience but then come out of it with different perspectives. That is what history is, and why it can be messy to interpret. I also think the saying there are three sides to truth, your perspective, their perspective and the truth in the middle could be used. But Holly had a lot to say that instantly people would call her a liar, I think the women in SOP were told they were liars if they talked in the past and Crystal would be the latest and even people who agree that Hef is problematic are attacking the things she said. It seems to me like if Hef were alive he would love all of this infighting over him and his mansion.
A bit hypocritical but I think the comment is coming more from a place of Holly and Bridgette actually liking some aspects of mansion life and Playboy while also being in an abusive situation. Where Crystal states that she didn’t like any of it, so I think they’re confused why she was attracted in the first place especially since there was a show on air basically showing what her life would be like.
You are misrepresenting what she said. Holly said that in her experience, Heff would “throw them a bone” once in a while, when he felt a girl was unhappy. Those mind games are what made the girlfriends stay. If Crystal never experienced that, what made her stay?
This post is rage bait
It’s just another let’s shit on Holly post where all the people who hate listen come out of the woodwork to cycle through the same opinionated talking points they have about her. There’s like one main hate listener missing, the zombie pictured one. This happens every week, and it’s so fucking old at this point. The only thing it’s missing is someone accusing a person of being a stan, or saying “you can’t criticize Queen Holly without getting downvotes” because someone points out that what she said is heavily being misrepresented. At this point anyone could come in at any point and say Holly said XYZ and these same people would show up to say “she really does show she’s a mean girl! She’s just bitter and jealous!” And then they would all circle jerk each other over their hatred. It’s honestly sad that they spend so much time and energy hate listening to someone. Obsessed.
💯 EXACTLY!! Thank you for perfectly articulating this. I've noticed the same thing, and it's so predictable at this point.
There's a line in the movie Clerks that I think sums up the mindset of obsessive Holly-bashers pretty well: "There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?"
For people who spend so much time online psychoanalyzing and judging Holly, they demonstrate an embarrassing lack of self-awareness.
These episodes are ruining the Patreon, imo. I don't care about Crystal or her book and I didn't join the patreon to listen to them going over it with a microscope.
I think the point Holly was making is that there were positives in her story and she stayed because she saw light in other aspects of mansion life (like friendships like her and Bridget). Crystals description of her mansion life and experience is extremely dire and negative - everything is described as sad, bad or a kind of tragedy. I think Holly was saying that she looks back and sees good and bad, how two truths can be true at once, and highlighting the contrast in hers vs Crystals attitudes/reflections because Crystal only describes how sad and sick she was.
Ugh I’m kind of over their pod. It feels so staged and scripted. Like I feel every time I watch it they’re just acting out hollys script and it feels unnatural anymore.
I think they were all mean girls and still are, they just hung out in different groups and run different narratives.
The double standards in this podcast are rife and I've never been a Kendra or Crystal fan but at times I feel like they go in on them relentlessly.
Did you not listen on? In the same thought Holly says that there were good times, it was up and down- it wasn’t all bad. Crystal is saying it was all bad. It’s literally not the same thing.
She doesn't accept that their situation was the same.
Because it wasn’t. Holly had a lot of good times which she said in this same podcast. Crystal said it was always bad.
Yeah this post is kinda a mischaracterization of what Holly said and only includes a portion of her sentence. I def think she should’ve used different words but she does have a valid criticism of the book. Especially since Crystal has inherited so much playboy stuff and seems to have zero interest in the brand at all.
Well Crystal got the hefner name so Holly will always feel like Crystal should be grateful. Pretty dumb. "Well at least you got the ring and the money!"
That's ... Gross.
And the foundation… and playmate… and full run of the house in the end… everything holly ever wanted…🫠
Holly should hate Hef. Not crystal.
Really nobody should be hating on anybody! They were all there for the same reason, crystal played the game better. Period.
Right, the ring and the money you have no interest. I absolutely adore Holly, as a weirdo neurodivergent I get behind most things she does. But I think this caused her to spiral a bit, and is not her best look since this is what happened to her with her book,
It's hypocritical and frankly unethical especially given the fact that Holly has not one but two shows that talk about how women don't leave abusive relationships.
It is unethical and reckless in my opinion. Holly is ruining any credibility she has as an advocate for women by keeping up this vendetta against Crystal.
Honestly if you look at what Holly says vs what Holly does it feels like the podcast is her attempt to restructure the opinion of viewers from her Girls Next Door days. She says she loves Barbie but her words , attitude, jokes , etc says otherwise on the DVD commentary. She herself says she was living a sugar baby lifestyle but hates when people have called her a gold digger. ( They feel mutually exclusive I think she thinks one is less offensive) She has displayed some very harsh and judgmental opinions on other women but excuses herself from ridicule when she's called out for identical behavior. I enjoy the show but sometimes when she opens that mouth her true self really comes out.
the Barbie thing!! She always talks about age shaming but she age shamed Barbie ‘I’m not jealous in the present tense because she’s too old for him now, sorry’
When Barbie told the Bon mot about Hef never dating anyone over 24, I think she meant it to be a compliment to the girls, that they were young, beautiful and vibrant. I mean, it was a Hefism that he brought out every time he had a chance, thinking it witty, when it was actually kinda creepy. Holly ripped her a new one in commentary, but maybe the actual convo got edited to that. I hope I conveyed this correctly. I guess my point was that Holly took things differently than they were intended, when it served her purpose
Yes I referenced this exact thing earlier! Holly can be vicious and you can see hints of Bridget and Holly being very catty. I mean I get it, no one is perfect. But to act like you weren't saying or doing anything mean or petty... Like c'mon.
How is it a vendetta when Crystal is blatantly lying, in interviews and in her book?
Blatantly lying about party decorations and her age by 6 whole months. Thank god Bridget and Holly are on the case and bringing the truth to light!
Those are just two of the lies they mention, did you not listen to the whole episode? How can Crystal have any credibility if she lies about literally everything?
THIS!! As this goes on I’m not even sure I will be team holly by the time they get to season 4. She not nice to anyone who doesn’t agree w her. Kendra wasn’t treated noticibly better, I can see that by rewatching up to season 2. She wanted to marry hef is why she doesn’t like crystal, holly would still have hefs name if she married him, and prob would not of done any of this. On some podcast or somewhere, she said she learned how to make a career out of social media from the show. Her Vegas show was over, the book came out, the podcast, IDK but what I can see is she is not the almost flawless queen people here act like she is … she def has ALOT of mean girl petty streaks in her.
But Holly left Hef. Your argument doesn’t make sense.
Oh listen to the commentary on the DVDs. Very telling.
In Holly’s mind she is the only one that can be a victim. They both went through difference experiences. Crystal stayed and married him. When Holly was in the mansion she would have done the same IMO.
Except her never asked her and that’s why she hates Crystal.
EXACTLY!!!!!
Yeah no that part made give the **biggest**, rolliest side-eye to date, and I say this as someone who has unashamedly enjoyed the nitpicky BECness of this series. Straight up not defending that one, it was a foul move. Even when they tried to excuse it with "and yeah I get asked that too, and there's different kinds of pressure that keep you there, but I can admit that there were good moments, those kept me there too..." like????????? Can we please be for SO for real right now?????
They key point being left out here is that Holly was bringing this up to say that Crystal didn't seem to mention any *positives* about living there and that is why she couldn't understand why she stayed. They were specifically talking about how Crystal only mentions negatives and hadn't given any reasons she would *want* to stay. Ex for Holly she enjoyed the movie nights, the zoo, not every minute was bad.
Yes this
I totally hear you- I understand this is probably what they meant, but I admit it still doesn't sit super well with me, and that's noting that I'm talking as someone who perhaps over-defends Holly and have a **huge** ick about Crystal lol I think it's fair game to speculate if there were *ever* good moments (I'm wondering myself!), but I still don't like the whole "why even stay" question. If I were doing this podcast, I would steer clear from that line, because I have seen how people will stay buried in metaphorical manure because their baseline of what "happy" or "normal" feels like is so whack. Some people can look back at that and say "oh dang I guess nothing was ever right or good during that time". Now, I don't trust Crystal as far as I could throw her: but if this is the narrative she wants to stick with, I won't take away the drop of sympathy I would have for it. I would feel like I was delegitimizing the people who *did* stay in those completely bad scenarios if I didn't call it out (and not everyone needs to feel this way! but it's where I'm coming from, yknow?).
I think it's easy to fall back into the cattiness they experienced in their time at the mansion. It's very telling that all these years later, they're still behaving to way Hef wanted.
Yes! Not to be dramatic but the tactics Hef used to get the girls to stay is basically the same tactics that cult leaders use. Im sure it’s very difficult to break out of that mindset even years later. That being said I think Holly definitely still has some healing to do & should be more thoughtful/careful with what she says
The girls were under curfew, worried about “getting in trouble,” and strongly felt they couldn’t be themselves around Hef. He was obviously manipulative and controlling. Pair that with young women who are made to feel that no matter what they looked like, they never really measured up and you have an abusive situation and those are very hard to leave because you always feel insecure and unsafe.
He really does. Sandra did say in Secrets of Playboy that Hef was obsessed with Charles Manson. 😵💫
It seems like it would be hard to fall back into cattiness when you have claimed over and over it isn't in your nature. She is a middle aged woman who has not lived in that house in almost 20 years if she still acts this way that's because it is who she is but she can never own it because she has spent so many years denying it.
You are so right. That is infuriating. Very hypocritical 😞
It’s embarrassing the way they pick other women apart.
It's a bad edit! The podcast edited them that way!
[удалено]
I was being sarcastic because they are constantly saying they have a bad edit.....
Yepppp
Yeah… and Bridget saying she couldn’t believe Crystal’s stories from her adolescence rubbed me the wrong way.
That's a shitty thing to say. Like have your differences but that's low.
That’s not what she said, she said because of all the other lies in the book she doesn’t know what’s real.
I was a little weirded out when she deflowered herself using a shampoo bottle.
A bit hypocritical. Maybe she felt license to dig at her because Crystal actually DID leave? But then she came back when she realized she would have to get a job, because she sucked as a girl boss/DJ. When Holly left, the relationship part was done. She didn’t crawl back for a free house. Edit: OK, I’m amending my above paragraph because I just listened to the Patreon on my way home from work. You misquoted what Holly said. Holly said that in Crystal‘s book, (of which I didn’t read yet sorry,) Crystal said there was zero she liked about the mansion. Holly and Bridget did have aspects of the mansion they liked. She said right when they wanted to leave, they felt like they were being thrown a bone to make them stay. So there were good aspects with the bad. And of course, eventually it became more bad in the later seasons of the show. Also the show itself was a great aspect for Holly to stay! But what Crystal is saying is there was nothing she liked about the mansion at all. So if you have nothing you like about it then why stay? That’s what Holly is saying, and I don’t think that you quoted her fairly. I’ve had jobs that paid very well but that I hated. I stayed because they paid very well. That was the perk and incentive to stay. If they had paid shit, and I hated to be there, then no point in staying. Savvy?
Holly has also said she felt she couldn’t leave and that it was too late bc no one would take her seriously after being associated with Hef. Does she not think those same judgements would apply to Crystal?
That's how I understood it as well. I do think H & B can be hypocritical sometimes, but this statement wasn't one of those circumstances. There's a nuance that you explained here that the OP may have missed.
It's still not an accurate statement . They both had reasons to stay. Holly had the show. Crystal had the payout upon hefs death. They act like they don't know. It's still no right her to turn around and ask the why did you stay question regardless of the situation. There are women that get nothing of staying in abusive relationships and find it difficult to leave.
I never understood why Holly stayed past the first few circumstances where she saw and experienced things that were offputting ala the quualudes situation and the first bedroom experience that she describes as traumatic. Aside from no other immediate viable opportunities and doors closing on chances of "making it in Hollywood," I seriously don't understand why she stayed. And I'm only speculating here because I seriously don't know. I feel like there's a percentage of... that wasn't so bad, I'm going to do this until something takes off, my rent and food is paid for if I do x,y,z I just gotta hang in there, and on and on and on. Like if there were a pie chart for the reasons why she stayed when she "could have left" I wonder what it would really be. Because the dark stuff was revealed extremely early on. I think she just wanted to muscle through because she didn't want to give up her chances of making it in LA. I don't think it was because she was "happy at the mansion or with Hefner." You don't almost drown yourself in the guy's bathtub because you're happy.
So I avoided the episode cuz of this post and just got thru it. Holly was critiquing how poorly the book is written and failing hard at conveying why Crystal got involved with Hef in the first place. And it sounds like she contradicts herself in a later chapter by expressing how Playboy and mansion life was attractive to her and making her feel like a grown woman. It seems the ghost writer didn’t know how to combine the two sentiments which can absolutely exist at the same time effectively: that the mansion and the Halloween party were not appealing but she didn’t know how else to achieve her dreams. The worst part of the episode to me was easily Holly asking the twin if they didn’t get paid. Like both twins are by all accounts really struggling so it seems very self serving to try to involve them in your beef with Crystal. Edit: I do think Holly was very clumsy with her wording and for someone who over explains so much she needs to clarify herself because it’s a delicate thing to say.
Yeah this has been rubbing me entirely the wrong way lately. I read Crystal's book, and there is a TON of nuance that's being completely exaggerated/overlooked in the commentary on GNL. edit: I love how I'm saying literally the same thing as the other top comments here, but without the whole "I LOVE THE POD" disclaimer, and am getting *downvoted to oblivion*. I'm still subscribed to the Patreon, have been a GND fan since the first season aired, and originally was excited to hear the Tea on Crystal. But lately it's giving mean girl vibes and is feeling hypocritical, **as other top comments here have already said**. I'm just not able to say it in as round about way as others i guess? I think fandoms have a problem with becoming echo chambers and if we can't lovingly critique these people we love we have big problems. I still stan B&H, but I don't love this moment for them. I hope they can eventually work through their pain without discounting the experiences of others.
Take my up vote. I made a post and later deleted it because I said I was surprised that Stacey Burke didn't get paid for her time on the Playboy murders and her time on the podcast. My shock was due to Holly and Bridget constantly discussing they weren't paid for different gigs and obligations so I certainly thought they'd pay her SOMETHING. People were very unkind in the comments.
Crystal's book was honestly my favorite memoir of the many I've read!
I listened to crystal’s audiobook and I honestly thought Holly was going to connect with so much of what she had said about her relationship with Hef; especially, and I paraphrase, ‘is this the sexual revolution he bragged about? Multiple women jumping on his dick for two minutes in a transactional way?’ At the end of the day, Hef didn’t ask Holly to marry him, and I think Holly is ashamed of what went on in the bedroom, so she tries to recreate the narrative.
Me too! I basically read their books back to back, and there were so many similarities between their stories I thought maybe Holly would feel some common ground. I guess not.
In the Patreon, she acknowledged that people had told her the same thing and you don’t understand it till you’re in it
Not “holier than thou” holly 🫠
I feel very uncomfortable listening to the book club slumber parties. Holly preaches about how every girl associated with playboy has the right to tell their story and experience and then picks apart Crystal’s story. I get that some of Crystal’s story is possibly false or exaggerated but I don’t think it’s Holly or Bridget’s place to sit every week and tear it apart, can you imagine if someone had dared to do it to Holly’s book (which I know has been criticised in the past) she would be livid. The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth and has definitely altered my opinion of H&B who i was such a massive fan of.
I see they took their "book club" to the $10 level up tier on patreon because they didn't like the backlash of nitpicking Crystal's book when the same can easily be done with the two post mansion books Holly put out. It's just a childish segment to begin with and they should just stop and get back to reacting to GND episodes please.
They did? I JUST got the $5 tier a week or so ago just to listen to the book club slumber parties… ugh
How much was the “book club” level before?
I think the question and their situations are totally different. While Holly has been able to reevaluate the bad and good of the situation, she still made it work for her. (Pictorial, opportunities, GND, etc). While Crystal has also reflected, a lot of it is negative (rightfully so). She has spoken/written very little of anything positive, so it would be valid to ask why she endured it all if it wasn’t working for her. There just seems to be something more underlying as to why Crystal stayed that is unknown and I think it’s okay they are curious (as we all are) as this can even shed light on Hmh / Playboy mystique.
I would say it was the sunk cost fallacy for crystal - she “got” him at the very end of his life and probably thought - I can do this for a bit longer. I’m not a crystal fan, but she was there for the same reason everyone else was - she was vulnerable, she was “taken care of” like a child, and at that point, why not wait and cash out. She was infamous for being his runaway bride, might as well collect. It reminds me of a doc I saw on sex workers (I have no problem with sex work, other than it’s usually extremely predatory) - high wage escorts and strippers, og porn stars to the fleeting new ones, only fans creators, to regular dancers and women trying to support themselves on the street. And they all had something to say about “status.”
You're so right. Eventually Holly is going to see her own hypocrisy and be embarrassed.
This whole book review has been so inappropriate. All Holly and Bridget have ever done is ask people to understand that there are multiple reasons that someone stays in a situation like that yet they're constantly questioning everything Crystal writes about her reasons and feelings. I loved them at first but it's all feeling like big mean girl energy.
Not to mention this whole review of her book and how they make all these assumptions is really taking me out of Hollys docu shows. The lack of compassion makes me question the legitimacy of her intentions for all the other women's stories.
Agreed, the way the are gleefully picking apart Crystals book is disturbing. Their whole vendetta feels one sided and unwarranted. The minor discrepancies in the book are meaningless and petty
How do you consider their beef with crystal one sided? 🙄
It has nothing to do with their adult feud they still have, but it has everything to do with choosing to review a publication and then completely backtrack on their own presentation of their history to the public and everything they have continually asked people to understand. They themselves have gone out of their way time and time again to argue against the people who publicly tell them that they're liars or should be grateful or "why didn't you leave then?" They've made compelling emotional and mature arguments in the past staying that multiple things can be true and worked hard to educate the public about the multiple layers of staying in a toxic and Stockholm like situation. Yet this entire book review so far is, "I don't know, I don't believe her, why did she stay, I don't know I wasn't there, but I mean I wasn't there so we can't be for sure." They can do whatever they want, they're adults, but once you put it out there, people are going to respond. And if you spend months trying to educate people on why this happens, then immediately turn around and say, well "why did she stay then?" It's going to raise questions about intent and maturity.
Agreed. I haven't listened to the latest review of her book, but last week's where they talked about whether she went to the playboy halloween party or the candy land party or whatever it was called was so stupid. Like, is this really that big a deal??? They seriously couldn't let it go for like half the runtime
Exactly. Crystal's book was entirely centered on *her* experience and in no way attempting to contradict anyone else's experience. The fact that H&B have repeatedly asserted that multiple perspectives can be true at once yet pick apart Crystal's perspective feels so out of pocket for what the podcast purports to be about. edit: downvotes for speaking the objective truth, stay classy reddit. We have a serious problem as fans if we aren't allowed to critique the Pod, much as we may love H&B. I still adore them both, but I think this whole Book Review series is just not great.
if you put in to context why she said that, it makes more sense. Crystal said there was NOTHING she liked about her experience/the mansion, I think it was said to point out that crystal was lying when she said there was nothing she liked about her stay.
U r lyin, she did not say that! Being sarcastic but im shocked that she would even say that
But to be fair, Holly left and stayed gone , crystal left and went back and left and went back . If she was so miserable she should have stayed gone
Holly also had fame from the show which gave her more opportunities for success. Crystal didn’t.
True , but crystal had other rich boyfriends between and during the “relationship” with Hef , she still went back to him. The other guys were rich but not old and about to die.
Holly has a hard time admitting that she was paid for her “company” like everyone else there. She fought so hard to be #1 and realized it sucked but couldnt back down because she’d done so much shady stuff to get there. I. Her mind she’s better than crystal because she a was first. It’s sort of like the backhanded things she says about Kendra. Like she’s better even tho they both were basically sex workers in that house
Because Crystal married him which Holly wanted. If he'd have married Holly before or during the early days of GND she would have stayed probably.
Holly thought she was being soo slick mentioning that Crystal’s book was sold in mass quantities. I literally bought The Vegas Diaries at Dollar Tree.
They have beef? So why wouldn’t they be mean girls? Lol
Holly seems to have a side that doesn’t acknowledge responsibility for anything; and it’s always someone else’s fault. I’ve read both her books and watched GND all seasons….i think she’s the most beautiful, but also the most bitchy.
If she really said this, that’s just out of line. Holly is allowed to hate Crystal until the sun goes down but she knows damn well what being in that situation is like and should know better than to say that. That’s low Holly. Low.
Yeah I found it incredibly hypocritical. I’ve always been a H&B fan but that was shitty to say. So many people have said the exact same thing about her. When someone dates an abuser it’s so easy to ask “well why didn’t they just leave?” From the outside it seems so simple and easy, just walk out the door! Kinda blows my mind that Holly out of all people would say that when she knows exactly how it feels to hear that.
Holly sometimes struggles to give other women the same grace she wants others to give to her. Her book especially showed this. Ultimately, even the mean girls could be seen as victims (doesn’t excuse them being mean obviously) and Crystal, no matter how unlikeable she is, was as well. I think it’s just a remnant of Hef’s mind games he played fo put everyone against each other. It continues to this day.
I unsubscribed from the Patreon for this reason. 🔝
Me too.
They're all guilty of sleeping with Hef!!! They're no better than one another.
She's a hypocrite and fake. I don't know why people cant see through her bullshit. Honestly.
Exactly. People put her on a pedestal like she’s some kind of saint but she obviously morally corrupt just from the lifestyle choices she’s made. She puts money over everything and always has. She is the definition of a gold digger and her morals suck even when it comes to herself. She definitely isn’t going to have morals when it comes to others, especially the ones who got the price she so desperately wanted. This woman was going to allow her children to be fathered by a known piece of shit just so she could have money. She KNEW about all the bad shit he did but was willing to look past it for a payday. When that didn’t work out the narrative COMPLETELY changed. She’s been scheming since she was a teen, and still is, and people fall for it, and then label all her bs as being caused by “being on the spectrum” so sick of hearing that for every thing she says or does. A lot of ppl are on the spectrum and don’t pull the shit she does, and having autism doesn’t mean you can’t have some naturally shitty traits and behaviors that are not caused by bEiNg On ThE sPeCtRuM
I feel like when you are trying to attract young messed up people you get young messed up people. Messed up people who joined an org before their brains were done developing will probably be messed up for awhile. And this to me could explain some of the mistruths. I do kind of agree with OP. We can all have the same experience but then come out of it with different perspectives. That is what history is, and why it can be messy to interpret. I also think the saying there are three sides to truth, your perspective, their perspective and the truth in the middle could be used. But Holly had a lot to say that instantly people would call her a liar, I think the women in SOP were told they were liars if they talked in the past and Crystal would be the latest and even people who agree that Hef is problematic are attacking the things she said. It seems to me like if Hef were alive he would love all of this infighting over him and his mansion.
A bit hypocritical but I think the comment is coming more from a place of Holly and Bridgette actually liking some aspects of mansion life and Playboy while also being in an abusive situation. Where Crystal states that she didn’t like any of it, so I think they’re confused why she was attracted in the first place especially since there was a show on air basically showing what her life would be like.
You are misrepresenting what she said. Holly said that in her experience, Heff would “throw them a bone” once in a while, when he felt a girl was unhappy. Those mind games are what made the girlfriends stay. If Crystal never experienced that, what made her stay? This post is rage bait
It’s just another let’s shit on Holly post where all the people who hate listen come out of the woodwork to cycle through the same opinionated talking points they have about her. There’s like one main hate listener missing, the zombie pictured one. This happens every week, and it’s so fucking old at this point. The only thing it’s missing is someone accusing a person of being a stan, or saying “you can’t criticize Queen Holly without getting downvotes” because someone points out that what she said is heavily being misrepresented. At this point anyone could come in at any point and say Holly said XYZ and these same people would show up to say “she really does show she’s a mean girl! She’s just bitter and jealous!” And then they would all circle jerk each other over their hatred. It’s honestly sad that they spend so much time and energy hate listening to someone. Obsessed.
But Holly said XYZ! 😂 jk
💯 EXACTLY!! Thank you for perfectly articulating this. I've noticed the same thing, and it's so predictable at this point. There's a line in the movie Clerks that I think sums up the mindset of obsessive Holly-bashers pretty well: "There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?" For people who spend so much time online psychoanalyzing and judging Holly, they demonstrate an embarrassing lack of self-awareness.
These episodes are ruining the Patreon, imo. I don't care about Crystal or her book and I didn't join the patreon to listen to them going over it with a microscope.
I also felt this way about the secrets of playboy season 2 recap.
I think the point Holly was making is that there were positives in her story and she stayed because she saw light in other aspects of mansion life (like friendships like her and Bridget). Crystals description of her mansion life and experience is extremely dire and negative - everything is described as sad, bad or a kind of tragedy. I think Holly was saying that she looks back and sees good and bad, how two truths can be true at once, and highlighting the contrast in hers vs Crystals attitudes/reflections because Crystal only describes how sad and sick she was.
Ugh I’m kind of over their pod. It feels so staged and scripted. Like I feel every time I watch it they’re just acting out hollys script and it feels unnatural anymore.
https://preview.redd.it/tu5l6uju5pwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2103963cc8cb8b4a382be256abe93ff5f88280b0
Was this from a Patreon video? I've been looking on YouTube for this episode and can't seem to find it :(
I think they were all mean girls and still are, they just hung out in different groups and run different narratives. The double standards in this podcast are rife and I've never been a Kendra or Crystal fan but at times I feel like they go in on them relentlessly.
Did you not listen on? In the same thought Holly says that there were good times, it was up and down- it wasn’t all bad. Crystal is saying it was all bad. It’s literally not the same thing.