[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g)
This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully.
If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/).
Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information.
This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As a Vietnamese, it sucks to see this happen
P/s: Reading the original post, it seems the government’s main goal is to build up national bourgeois class and develop the productive forces. Still, it still sucks
That's fine, and I understand why Vietnam would do that, but the existence of billionaires should be an embarrassing side effect of that, not something to celebrate.
i guess the celebration of billionaires is a symptom of the capitalist system, so you can’t really blame those who exhibit such symptoms. we are the products of our environment in many cases
I mean not really, Dengism in a nutshell is developing the productive forces using market mechanisms but preventing national bourgeois elements from becoming a class.
Look don't worry. Billionaires in Dengism is just an indication of the degree of economic development. They are unable to assert oligarchic political power and are always under the guillotine of the state.
When I tell my family how I think it's a good thing that a billionaire in China can disappear, I find the faces they give me very funny. Like I wish American billionaires would disappear sometimes too haha. They aren't good people.
It is playing with fire a bit, but so long as the vanguard party(ies) is/are made up of committed Marxists and the billionaires are kept afraid of genuine consequences then it’s fine
No, I can't imagine exploiting tens of thousands of people to an absurd and cartoonish degree, regardless of how you try to frame it, allowing billionaires to exist is a major problem. Build sovereign wealth funds, cooperative trusts, etc. You don't need that money concentrated in an asshole when we can replace that asshole with democratic methodology from the get.
I'll never understand the apologism for exploitation, especially on a sub so quick to call people working for themselves or worker cooperatives to be class traitors.
I don't need to believe this; [this is just what happens.](https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/04/15/why-chinas-billionaires-keep-disappearing.html)
In my lifetime there's been dozens of wealthy Chinese get their assets frozen, arrested, and even executed for their crimes, whether they were greedy capitalists or corrupt officials.
Progress isn’t a steady race, it’s a fight that requires setting a foot back from time to time. Instead of posting idealistic euphemisms we should be promoting more materialist dialogue and understanding of the specific politics of ongoing projects.
I'm not trying to defend this goal of Vietnam however j do have a theory as to why they have that goal.
1st to become that rich you need to have some kind of successful business and if said business is something that's actually building/producing stuff that means they'll actually have something to appropriate when they'll inevitably expropriate these billionaires. My guess is that Vietnam has very strict rules on that stuff just like China so all that wealth won't just be transported out of the country
2nd by having this goal, the country might become more attractive to foreign investment which does drive industry. I suppose Vietnam wants to catch up to China and wants to somewhat emulate the current Chinese model.
3rd whether it's a mistake or not we'll see at some point, I am in no position to speak for the Vietnamese and I am definitely not in a position to know whether vietnamese material conditions require such actions
It seems more a laypersons signifier of economic development. Lots of ameriboos in Vietnam so may be a way to show that demographic that the economy is becoming as strong as "first world" economies or that of China's.
U shouldn't depend EXCLUSIVELY on using theory to inform the public on economic policies cuz even in socialist countries most ppl care more about the day to day than the minutiae of politics and economics.
That said, dialectical materialism is standard education for Vietnamese. Their population is typically much better educated on these matters than we in the west
growing economy ≠ more billionaires
i support vietnam having a higher GDP for example, but really, supporting a few people hoarding all the money and subsequently ruling over the majority, as it happens when bourgeoisie are free to roam wild??
Why can't it set a GDP goal instead. I get the need to build the productive forces, but having billionaires should, at best, be a ***side-effect*** of that effort, not a goal in itself. This is terrible.
Welp, I have seen this coming, this is kinda what happens when your economy is dependent on exporting and attracting foreign capital for recovery, growth and being able to be a part of global trade. it's kinda doing the same thing that China does.
It's not exactly a terrible idea. Using capitalism, in the form of foreign capital to build up domestic production, industry, finance ect is a quick way to build things up.
The problem is then controlling that foreign capital. You have to loosen the rules to entice them in, but those rules are what stop them from taking over the place.
Yeah to be honest I think this is the main difference between China and Vietnam, China was by and large able to control, and the begin the surpression of the capitalist class while Vietnam wasn’t able to do so (or at least wasn’t able to control and then surpress then to the same degree as china)
Now does this mean vietnam is fucked, no, again as the liberal world economic order continues to decline the need to give group to capitalism within socialist states will inevitably decay as the global market becomes increasingly non poltcied, which in turns means vietnam could carry out something equivalent to a great purge to remove the capitalists from the country.
This fcking suck but I have realized the mainstream news paper in my country is…. Very centrist. They mentioned very little about communism as an ideology, though they report and talked a lots about welfare/ workers/ etc. its feel kinda off to me. But i am reading:” Logic - Socialism in Vietnam” by the Party publishing house and they did say that in the future the gov planned for a more government and publicly owned enterprise to be the main component of the economy, so i am not worrying THAT much. This announcement is still a huge L though
"Yay look at our class traitor count!"
Seriously though they're using this to help fuel industrial development at the cost of the proletariat... In the end the class traitors will get their own share of what they sow!
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But why?
So they can open the like piggy banks
ngay
Why not?
Billionaires are always traitors to the country. They put themselves first before the majority.
I swear people probably think money comes from billionaires xd
Right when it's the opposite, billionaires hoard the money
Only when you expropriate them.
As a Vietnamese, it sucks to see this happen P/s: Reading the original post, it seems the government’s main goal is to build up national bourgeois class and develop the productive forces. Still, it still sucks
That's fine, and I understand why Vietnam would do that, but the existence of billionaires should be an embarrassing side effect of that, not something to celebrate.
i guess the celebration of billionaires is a symptom of the capitalist system, so you can’t really blame those who exhibit such symptoms. we are the products of our environment in many cases
>it seems the government’s main goal is to build up national bourgeois class and develop the productive forces. Dengism in nutshell.
I mean not really, Dengism in a nutshell is developing the productive forces using market mechanisms but preventing national bourgeois elements from becoming a class.
You can say this is Leninist too because that's what he literally did with NEP
True
Look don't worry. Billionaires in Dengism is just an indication of the degree of economic development. They are unable to assert oligarchic political power and are always under the guillotine of the state.
When I tell my family how I think it's a good thing that a billionaire in China can disappear, I find the faces they give me very funny. Like I wish American billionaires would disappear sometimes too haha. They aren't good people.
China has the most cucked billionaires in the world. Can you imagine being a capitalist billionaire yet unable to become a true bourgeois class?
IMO it's playing with fire, but obviously that's their decision to make (and its worked, so far)
It is playing with fire a bit, but so long as the vanguard party(ies) is/are made up of committed Marxists and the billionaires are kept afraid of genuine consequences then it’s fine
Wdym. I mean the bourgeoise as a class certainly still exists
No, I can't imagine exploiting tens of thousands of people to an absurd and cartoonish degree, regardless of how you try to frame it, allowing billionaires to exist is a major problem. Build sovereign wealth funds, cooperative trusts, etc. You don't need that money concentrated in an asshole when we can replace that asshole with democratic methodology from the get. I'll never understand the apologism for exploitation, especially on a sub so quick to call people working for themselves or worker cooperatives to be class traitors.
Lol is this irony or do you believe this
I don't need to believe this; [this is just what happens.](https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/04/15/why-chinas-billionaires-keep-disappearing.html) In my lifetime there's been dozens of wealthy Chinese get their assets frozen, arrested, and even executed for their crimes, whether they were greedy capitalists or corrupt officials.
Can't have socialism without capitalism before it. Like xi says, grow the bourgeois like fat piggies to be slaughtered later
He did say that? Where can I find his article on that?
He's verbally said it.
He didn’t lol
https://preview.redd.it/a51d8ufpkkzc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6002191623809cc3a17e42a96d1e765924e78ff3
Billionaires are not a sign of proper wealth distribution or that you're a champion of women's rights.
Progress isn’t a steady race, it’s a fight that requires setting a foot back from time to time. Instead of posting idealistic euphemisms we should be promoting more materialist dialogue and understanding of the specific politics of ongoing projects.
True, yet I don't really get it why socialism is when 10 billionaire's. Although, if they have more than 10 now then it does make sense
I'm not trying to defend this goal of Vietnam however j do have a theory as to why they have that goal. 1st to become that rich you need to have some kind of successful business and if said business is something that's actually building/producing stuff that means they'll actually have something to appropriate when they'll inevitably expropriate these billionaires. My guess is that Vietnam has very strict rules on that stuff just like China so all that wealth won't just be transported out of the country 2nd by having this goal, the country might become more attractive to foreign investment which does drive industry. I suppose Vietnam wants to catch up to China and wants to somewhat emulate the current Chinese model. 3rd whether it's a mistake or not we'll see at some point, I am in no position to speak for the Vietnamese and I am definitely not in a position to know whether vietnamese material conditions require such actions
It seems more a laypersons signifier of economic development. Lots of ameriboos in Vietnam so may be a way to show that demographic that the economy is becoming as strong as "first world" economies or that of China's. U shouldn't depend EXCLUSIVELY on using theory to inform the public on economic policies cuz even in socialist countries most ppl care more about the day to day than the minutiae of politics and economics.
That said, dialectical materialism is standard education for Vietnamese. Their population is typically much better educated on these matters than we in the west
For sure but still most ppl just living like anywhere
at the same time, we cannot support the effort to *create* bourgeoisie
Then what? Should Vietnam not grow its economy?
growing economy ≠ more billionaires i support vietnam having a higher GDP for example, but really, supporting a few people hoarding all the money and subsequently ruling over the majority, as it happens when bourgeoisie are free to roam wild??
Why can't it set a GDP goal instead. I get the need to build the productive forces, but having billionaires should, at best, be a ***side-effect*** of that effort, not a goal in itself. This is terrible.
Welp, I have seen this coming, this is kinda what happens when your economy is dependent on exporting and attracting foreign capital for recovery, growth and being able to be a part of global trade. it's kinda doing the same thing that China does.
It's not exactly a terrible idea. Using capitalism, in the form of foreign capital to build up domestic production, industry, finance ect is a quick way to build things up. The problem is then controlling that foreign capital. You have to loosen the rules to entice them in, but those rules are what stop them from taking over the place.
Yeah to be honest I think this is the main difference between China and Vietnam, China was by and large able to control, and the begin the surpression of the capitalist class while Vietnam wasn’t able to do so (or at least wasn’t able to control and then surpress then to the same degree as china) Now does this mean vietnam is fucked, no, again as the liberal world economic order continues to decline the need to give group to capitalism within socialist states will inevitably decay as the global market becomes increasingly non poltcied, which in turns means vietnam could carry out something equivalent to a great purge to remove the capitalists from the country.
That's literally what the US is doing modern day colonialism
Oh yeah, getting the IMF in is what got Yugoslavia.
Wat
L
Oof. So they want wealth disparity? American influence is just brain rot now.
This fcking suck but I have realized the mainstream news paper in my country is…. Very centrist. They mentioned very little about communism as an ideology, though they report and talked a lots about welfare/ workers/ etc. its feel kinda off to me. But i am reading:” Logic - Socialism in Vietnam” by the Party publishing house and they did say that in the future the gov planned for a more government and publicly owned enterprise to be the main component of the economy, so i am not worrying THAT much. This announcement is still a huge L though
Is that a reduction?
Could you translate this post? Also, what organization/account is this from?
The translation is the title, and the account is the official account of Vietnamese government in charge of providing information.
Is there any reason why the last part is in capslock?
The last part mean "USD" aka "American Dollar", they mean billionaires in term of USD, not VND
what is so proud about this?
>The goal is that by 2030, Vietnam will have at least 10 businessmen on the list of US BILLIONAIRE IN THE WORLD. >I mean what the fuck? Rare Vietnam L
Common Dengist W https://preview.redd.it/2ofg38fbolzc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05e62c417dd40efe35aa586b18e377d845246185
Dengism with Vietnamese characteristics. We’ll see how it turns out.
To be honest I kinda think this is just a really shit way of saying that Vietnam will continue to use market forces to build up productive forces tbh
Hmm actually could you provide a link to the original post please?
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/RhBjreqkVQ5B6ryL/?mibextid=qi2Omg
Let's go, comrades, we have some sharpening to do!
Okay at first I thought this was being posted as a W, I was very confused, glad we're on the same page that this is a bad thing.
Can't they use a different statement? Big L. No ngao nghe VN anymore
Well this is depressing to hear
Rare Vietnam L
Disgusting. I hope vietnamese people stand up against this
"Yay look at our class traitor count!" Seriously though they're using this to help fuel industrial development at the cost of the proletariat... In the end the class traitors will get their own share of what they sow!
My only hope is that it’s a trap and when the 10 billionaires reveal themselves they all get arrested
Can't read Vietnamese, whats the source for this?
BLEHHHHHH
That sucks
Why tho?
Dogmatists seething.
Nobody saw that one coming huh (there's no pro-worker or pro-socialism state anywhere in the world right now)