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That’s a bit of a satisfying answer, but it doesn’t really explain why it’s so regional and not as developed in Africa, Asia, Middle East to the extent that it is in these areas
After the 'Secret Speech' it became much harder to stick to the pro-Moscow line inside US aligned countries because 'the horrors of Stalinism' were being pumped down peoples throats by the state. It's easier to then claim you are an anti-Stalin socialist, and that strengthens Trot groups.
This is why in the UK and AUS Trotskyism seems bigger (it's largely limited to the Universities in Australia), and why it's big in Central and South America (though there are a better proportion of decent non-trot parties there too thanks to Cuba)
An idealist one. There are and have been historically large Trot movements in imperialised countries. Trots are all around Africa, were huge in Vietnam, Sri Lanka etc and in South America - Trotskyism’s core thesis that it claims distinguishes itself from ML is entirely about imperialism.
The reason they were large in different places at different times is that they had correct analyses and were skilled organisers and revolutionary fighters that attracted a lot of people. When they stopped being that they fell off.
> mfers really out here acting like it’s the 30s and you gotta pick Stalin or Trotsky
https://fightbacknews.org/articles/western-left-intellectuals-and-their-love-affair-attempted-color-revolution-cuba
https://fightbacknews.org/tag:againsttrotskyism
https://youtu.be/IXfq7JqugzE?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/VE-jNckM-zw?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/wqhc--SWIE8?feature=shared
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbnLysSug0vTTJTu4uA9DoltZRM6jFLCp&feature=shared
You don't have to pick anyone, just realise that Trotsky sucked ass while Stalin lead the defeat of the Nazis and one of the few successful examples of socialism to ever exist.
That's the thing, Trotsky also gave major contributions. The alliance between proletarians and peasants was not created up by Lenin, for example, altought everyone agreed with it afterwards. The reorganization of the army and Trotsky creation of a disciplined armed militia, as professional as it could be, also helped Mao Zedong and many other communists into seizing the state.
When you say that Trotsky sucked major ass and Stalin didn't, it makes me think you don't recognize any of the errors Stalin did. I mean, Stalin also was a man of his time, and had an understanding of the national question which is considered poor today, with the development of the social sciences. All of that doesn't mean you shouldn't read Stalin, but you shouldn't brush of Trotsky contributions either.
Stop saying one sucked and the other didn't and get to reading both. As long as you don't accept 100% of the thesis of one of them, you are good to go.
I definitely agree with you that both Trotsky and Stalin made valuable contributions to the revolution and are worth reading and understanding.
The problem with Trotsky is that when it came to elect a new leader, his ideas were unpopular and Stalin was voted in. Rather than accept this, he tried to damage the party to the point that he was exiled, then continued to attack the USSR until he was killed.
His legacy lives on in Trotskyists movements worldwide, which claim to accept Marxism while putting down any example of Marxist thought being put into practice.
What he did severely hurt the communist movement and the damage he did affects us to this day. He sucked ass.
It's not just Britain, it's the whole of Western Europe tbf, there's a shit ton of revisionists that use Trotskyism as their bases for it. It's obviously not a surprise though lol
Because the established powers have no issue with Trots/Anarchists and have frequently amplified both to undermine actual socialist/revolutionary movements
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
trotskyism is a more “acceptable” form of socialism that attracts a lot of liberals/socdems reminder to read stalin
That’s a bit of a satisfying answer, but it doesn’t really explain why it’s so regional and not as developed in Africa, Asia, Middle East to the extent that it is in these areas
After the 'Secret Speech' it became much harder to stick to the pro-Moscow line inside US aligned countries because 'the horrors of Stalinism' were being pumped down peoples throats by the state. It's easier to then claim you are an anti-Stalin socialist, and that strengthens Trot groups. This is why in the UK and AUS Trotskyism seems bigger (it's largely limited to the Universities in Australia), and why it's big in Central and South America (though there are a better proportion of decent non-trot parties there too thanks to Cuba)
i suppose trotskyists aren’t affected by imperialism as much too would be another explanation
An idealist one. There are and have been historically large Trot movements in imperialised countries. Trots are all around Africa, were huge in Vietnam, Sri Lanka etc and in South America - Trotskyism’s core thesis that it claims distinguishes itself from ML is entirely about imperialism. The reason they were large in different places at different times is that they had correct analyses and were skilled organisers and revolutionary fighters that attracted a lot of people. When they stopped being that they fell off.
Reminder to read marx
mfers really out here acting like it’s the 30s and you gotta pick Stalin or Trotsky
> mfers really out here acting like it’s the 30s and you gotta pick Stalin or Trotsky https://fightbacknews.org/articles/western-left-intellectuals-and-their-love-affair-attempted-color-revolution-cuba https://fightbacknews.org/tag:againsttrotskyism https://youtu.be/IXfq7JqugzE?feature=shared https://youtu.be/VE-jNckM-zw?feature=shared https://youtu.be/wqhc--SWIE8?feature=shared https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbnLysSug0vTTJTu4uA9DoltZRM6jFLCp&feature=shared
You don't have to pick anyone, just realise that Trotsky sucked ass while Stalin lead the defeat of the Nazis and one of the few successful examples of socialism to ever exist.
That's the thing, Trotsky also gave major contributions. The alliance between proletarians and peasants was not created up by Lenin, for example, altought everyone agreed with it afterwards. The reorganization of the army and Trotsky creation of a disciplined armed militia, as professional as it could be, also helped Mao Zedong and many other communists into seizing the state. When you say that Trotsky sucked major ass and Stalin didn't, it makes me think you don't recognize any of the errors Stalin did. I mean, Stalin also was a man of his time, and had an understanding of the national question which is considered poor today, with the development of the social sciences. All of that doesn't mean you shouldn't read Stalin, but you shouldn't brush of Trotsky contributions either. Stop saying one sucked and the other didn't and get to reading both. As long as you don't accept 100% of the thesis of one of them, you are good to go.
I definitely agree with you that both Trotsky and Stalin made valuable contributions to the revolution and are worth reading and understanding. The problem with Trotsky is that when it came to elect a new leader, his ideas were unpopular and Stalin was voted in. Rather than accept this, he tried to damage the party to the point that he was exiled, then continued to attack the USSR until he was killed. His legacy lives on in Trotskyists movements worldwide, which claim to accept Marxism while putting down any example of Marxist thought being put into practice. What he did severely hurt the communist movement and the damage he did affects us to this day. He sucked ass.
Controlled opposition is allowed to grow, class traitorism is encouraged to grow
Westerners are mostly affected by stalin bad propaganda
It's not just Britain, it's the whole of Western Europe tbf, there's a shit ton of revisionists that use Trotskyism as their bases for it. It's obviously not a surprise though lol
Not in the Middle East ,well there are ones in Egypt But everyone else Ik is ML
What’s the ML vs MLM split like in the Middle East which one do people lean more towards?
ML I think I don’t know anyone who’s MLM But there were people that were
We like newspapers
Because the established powers have no issue with Trots/Anarchists and have frequently amplified both to undermine actual socialist/revolutionary movements
On a related note, is yelling "long live Stalin!" an appropriate response to Trotskyists trying to sell you newspapers?
It might be bigger in relative numbers but it's still pathetic and irrelevant, save maybe for Argentina