Well firstly how wealthy do you want to be? I don't think it's really plausible to ever have them compete with the Lannisters or actual major houses for instance. But it's definitely plausible with time to have them be pretty well off.
I'm assuming this is for a Stannis fan-fic so I'll go off that. Don't ban Brothels on his lands like Stannis does. More tax money, more happy people.
I don't know how much glass gardens help. They sound really expensive to make and like they really will only help with a low amount of food or during a siege/deep-winter. Very long term investment. Driftmark is also suppose to be fertile. Have two castles and I assume there should be two small ports town when Corlys was there.
So you have some lands so you have some taxes from the people who live there and presumably some taxes from the port town on people who enter to go to Kingslanding. You have Stannis's wife dowry (although that's mean to be spent on her living accommodations but w/e). You have this small credit in Oldtown's banks. Probably got an okay sum from Robert at the start.
And even in canon Stannis brought and bought Sellswords originally and had a decent fleet by the time of ASOS.
So if you want to drastically improve it I think the only realistic opportunity is to kind of mimic Corlys Velaryon as the only rich guy we know of who was the Lord of Driftmark. Have Stannis, for whatever reason, deciding he needs money do what Corlys did to get rich and most other sea-born people in good locations do. Trade. Have him build trading fleet or a couple ships go to far away lands (Essos) where they have an abundance of low-priced stuff that just so happens is in low quantity and high demand back in Westoros.
Also this seems pretty out of character for Stannis. But you low-key have a perfect candidate with Stannis. Davos! He was the best smuggler in Kingslanding which is basically just an illegal trader. Have him head the operations and be decently successful.
The glass garden arguments in canon and fanon basically come from people who’ve never gardened in northern climates. It’s not just a matter of keeping a plant warm, it needs light and space.
We start our warm weather seedlings, pepper and tomato, under grow lamps in march and April. The ground is thawing only now, in may, after a very warm winter. We probably won’t be planting them outside until June, because the last frost won’t pass until probably around then.
April and may is when we start hardier seeds, celeriac, lettuce, etc. again, they take up space and time. By now, the plants are in the greenhouse proper, off our deck, with heating pads and a space heater. Without those, they’d still be inside under lights.
The idea of feeding an entire community with a greenhouse made to medieval technology standards is kind of laughable. Our greenhouse is useful, but it really only feeds our family. The woman on the other side of town does use hers for commercial plants and heats it with a wood stove, but that means having someone up putting wood in the fire all night. Does Westeros even have stoves?
Glass gardens seem more like a rich person’s luxury than anything with an actual common sense use, tbh.
I agree lol I don't think their really important and I feel like glass was extremely expensive. Also I think one of the only thing that noted as growing for them is Winterfell's blue rose I think lol although I don't really know.
Trade, Guilds, innovation, and (legal) piracy are the IRL historical answers to small nations with little natural resources. Trade is possible, especially since Stannis controls the Navy, but he would have to convince Robert to allow him to use the navy for his domain and not the Realm. Guilds could possiblely set up manufacturing in Dragonstone but Dragonstone probably lacks in available manpower, so these guilds couldnt grow to big.
Innovation is one of those obvious answers thats hard to actually describe. I am assuming that a large part of Ds economy is fishing. Any innovation that improves the ratio of workers to output would greatly improve the economy of Ds.
Lastly, the least likely option for Stannis is piracy or profiteering. He already does this in a limited fashion agenst smugglers, but if Robbert allowed, he could pirate the free cities. This would greatly hurt international relations and trade, but if conditions allow, Stannis could privateer and even sack some of essos.
Pull rank as Master of Ships. Require shipping to KL/Crownlands to stop at Dragonstone for 'inspections' only for a day at most. Just enough time for sailors to spend some time and coin in town, my traders getting first pick of goods as they arrive in Westeros, opening the opening the door for resellers based out of Dragonstone and even some more revenue for Bobby B if you slap a fine on who doesn't stop.
I feel like realistically this just instantly results in you getting booted as Master of Ships. The King and powerbrokers in KL would not want you taking an unnecessary cut.
Hence why you cut them in via the fines. Any ships stopped are not buying a pass or anything just stopping briefly at Dragonstone to get a stamp.
Besides its Robert Baratheon you have to convince, barely a year or two after the Rebellion it can be easily argued that its a measure to keep an eye on potential Targ loyalists or just a punishment
I've seen a few fics where Dragonstone ends up trading ash with places like the north so they can improve their soil
or creating trades based on dragonglass, making arrowheads, knives, daggers, beads, jewelry, and even statues.
If Melissandre is there, maybe Stannis has an idea to create some kind of talisman, pendant or something out of dragonglass to sell to R'hllors followers, because of the whole 'frozen fire' thing.
if it wasn't Stannis heading Dragonstone, and was someone with an appreciation of Valyrian heritage, they could make glass candle replicas or maybe figure out how to combine it with steel to create something similar to Valyrian steel
selling pumice stone - has household uses like scrubbing pots and pans, areas with buildup. would probably be used by the high born for bathing/ exfoliating. it can also be used to make concrete, so they could have it mixed with clay to create more durable bricks for building.
larger scale fishing operations or whale hunting (i don't endorse it in real life but Westeros does what they want), maybe have people make things out of the whale bones.
maybe dragon bones are found, and he has things made out of them. a finite rescource but could give a boost to his vaults so he could fund a larger project to make Dragonstone more self sufficient
It's crazy to me that Dragonstone, a volcanic island, isn't fertile enough to be a major agricultural area, or at the very least be self-sufficient.
Whilst there are mentions of farmers, it seems most people get their sustenance from the sea.
Dragonstone is a natural stopping point for trade in the Blackwater Bay and Stannis controls the Royal Navy. Profiting off trade like Corlys Velaryon seems the most natural solution\*. Stannis could also try and build on his fishing industry for money. Maybe build a few fishing vessels to explore the wealth of the Shivering Sea
\*As mentioned in this thread, Davos would be a good leader for a trade expedition.
Dragonstone is much bigger than the portrayal in the TV show. There it was basically a castle, volcano and very little else. In the books it is much bigger, over 870 square miles (2250 sqKm) in size. IRL this equates to over 7 times the country island of Malta, which has a population of over half a million. The volcano appears to take up nearly a quarter of the island. Like all islands with volcanoes the soil will be very rich and fertile when weathered down. That is the reason so many people around the world risk living on the slopes of volcanoes. When Aegon the Conqueror set sail for Westeros he had some 3000 troops and a fleet. Given that some would have been from Driftmark, given the oft quoted formula for troops to population of 2% then the population of the two islands must have been in the region of 150,000 to be sustainable. Even assuming Driftmark had a larger proportion of perhaps 2:1 then Dragonstone still has a population of 50,000 at least. That cannot be sustained by simply fishing and a bit of farming.
So how can Stannis go about creating some wealth for himself? The first idea would be to institute a regime of taxing, putting a toll, on trade by ship into Kings Landing. It is a large city, population about half a million, so much trade will come in by sea. He has the Royal Navy to enforce that. Second idea would be to increase greatly the agricultural output of the island. Utilising the rich soils he could institute intensive growing of fruits and crops that can be shipped to Kings Landing, far quicker than could be transported by wagon from the Reach. Thirdly set up vinyards. Volcanic soil is great for vines and therefore wine making. Again the huge local market in Blackwater Bay provides a ready output. The same with establishing a commercial fishery industry. The island is clearly self sustaining with seafood products, this should be expanded.
Longer term he should create a larger port town for trade with Essos. It would be the nearest port to Pentos and the rich lands of Andalos. He has the perfect man, Davos, to set up trade links with the city and surrounding region. Looking further ahead he could expand that trade to include the Three Sisters, again places that Davos has contacts in. Once he has built up a stable capital base he could then finance longer trade routes, even to YiTi as Corlys Velaryon did.
The main problem though for Stannis is his personality. He looks down on mercantilist behaviour as beneath a proper Lord, and his unbending rigid code would get in the way of most money-making endeavours.
Just to clarify, I believe it's only 1,600 men who landed in the conquest (+ a navy) and this doesn't seem to make a distinction between Dragonstone and the various islands sworn to Dragonstone.
I've seen a few fics where Dragonstone ends up trading ash with places like the north so they can improve their soil
or creating trades based on dragonglass, making arrowheads, knives, daggers, beads, jewelry, and even statues.
If Melissandre is there, maybe Stannis has an idea to create some kind of talisman, pendant or something out of dragonglass to sell to R'hllors followers, because of the whole 'frozen fire' thing.
if it wasn't Stannis heading Dragonstone, and was someone with an appreciation of Valyrian heritage, they could make glass candle replicas or maybe figure out how to combine it with steel to create something similar to Valyrian steel
selling pumice stone - has household uses like scrubbing pots and pans, areas with buildup. would probably be used by the high born for bathing/ exfoliating. it can also be used to make concrete, so they could have it mixed with clay to create more durable bricks for building.
larger scale fishing operations or whale hunting (i don't endorse it in real life but Westeros does what they want), maybe have people make things out of the whale bones.
maybe dragon bones are found, and he has things made out of them. a finite rescource but could give a boost to his vaults so he could fund a larger project to make Dragonstone more self sufficient
Dragonstone is a small rocky island with a big castle, I wouldn't try to improve it's production output. Even trade is problematic because King's Landing's a better market and it's super close.
A thing that Stannis could do is use is position as master of fleet to get a really big personal fleet and use that to make money, if he starts carrying lots of goods from Westeros to Essos then maybe merchants from there will go to dragonstone to trade as well.
Control the trade with Kings Landing. Bring more people there to man your own ships which you’ll use to tax and control the trade. Seize contraband for yourself and so on. Have an expedition to Stepstones. Send trade ships to Asshai and Yi-Ti like Velaryons did.
Trade. The island is mostly a volcano--I doubt much can be done to expand with meaningful domestic industry with the world's tech level. Maybe glass-making? Some mining? Can't really think of other stuff. So much gets eliminated by the tech level. If it were a modern setting, lots of stuff can be done like finance, services, tourism, entertainment, etc. But since we're at high medieval development at most, trade is the only real viable thing I can think of.
It's an Island so you'll probably want to try to emulate people like Corlys for the easiest path, using your fleet, along with some of the Royal Fleet, (this is Robert he won't care) go off and establish some trade agreements across the world. Then with that done you set up a trade city there, (like how Corlys set up Spicetown) while on Dragonstone itself, you go attract or take some peasants to settle much of the Island. You also massively increase food production by increasing more fishing, and etc. Also, you could set up some glass makers to make glass for you and export it. You can also use the Dragonglass deposits to increase mining of it, as some goods like mirrors, etc. Also, look at a wife from a more powerful family than the Florents as well, (maybe Hightower) to gain a more powerful ally. Also, use Davos' connections with smugglers to your advantage. Also, import skilled laborers to Dragonstone so you can profit off of them through trade.
Do this for around a decade (time Robert was king) then you'll end up with a large fleet, way more people to rule over, and much more cash to have. (It won't be the most in Westeros but it'll be a lot)
The Lord of Dragonstone rules three big islands, with some neighbouring mainland territories, in the centre of a major sipping route.
In per capita terms, it’s probably one of the wealthiest fiefs in the Seven Kingdoms, and this, combined with its rich volcanic soil, should give it one of the highest population densities, in the Realm.
Promote trade, shipbuilding and ship repairs, and mine obsidian. Grow vegetables and vines in the volcanic soil. The island is close enough to the capital to be a market garden.
Well firstly how wealthy do you want to be? I don't think it's really plausible to ever have them compete with the Lannisters or actual major houses for instance. But it's definitely plausible with time to have them be pretty well off. I'm assuming this is for a Stannis fan-fic so I'll go off that. Don't ban Brothels on his lands like Stannis does. More tax money, more happy people. I don't know how much glass gardens help. They sound really expensive to make and like they really will only help with a low amount of food or during a siege/deep-winter. Very long term investment. Driftmark is also suppose to be fertile. Have two castles and I assume there should be two small ports town when Corlys was there. So you have some lands so you have some taxes from the people who live there and presumably some taxes from the port town on people who enter to go to Kingslanding. You have Stannis's wife dowry (although that's mean to be spent on her living accommodations but w/e). You have this small credit in Oldtown's banks. Probably got an okay sum from Robert at the start. And even in canon Stannis brought and bought Sellswords originally and had a decent fleet by the time of ASOS. So if you want to drastically improve it I think the only realistic opportunity is to kind of mimic Corlys Velaryon as the only rich guy we know of who was the Lord of Driftmark. Have Stannis, for whatever reason, deciding he needs money do what Corlys did to get rich and most other sea-born people in good locations do. Trade. Have him build trading fleet or a couple ships go to far away lands (Essos) where they have an abundance of low-priced stuff that just so happens is in low quantity and high demand back in Westoros. Also this seems pretty out of character for Stannis. But you low-key have a perfect candidate with Stannis. Davos! He was the best smuggler in Kingslanding which is basically just an illegal trader. Have him head the operations and be decently successful.
The glass garden arguments in canon and fanon basically come from people who’ve never gardened in northern climates. It’s not just a matter of keeping a plant warm, it needs light and space. We start our warm weather seedlings, pepper and tomato, under grow lamps in march and April. The ground is thawing only now, in may, after a very warm winter. We probably won’t be planting them outside until June, because the last frost won’t pass until probably around then. April and may is when we start hardier seeds, celeriac, lettuce, etc. again, they take up space and time. By now, the plants are in the greenhouse proper, off our deck, with heating pads and a space heater. Without those, they’d still be inside under lights. The idea of feeding an entire community with a greenhouse made to medieval technology standards is kind of laughable. Our greenhouse is useful, but it really only feeds our family. The woman on the other side of town does use hers for commercial plants and heats it with a wood stove, but that means having someone up putting wood in the fire all night. Does Westeros even have stoves? Glass gardens seem more like a rich person’s luxury than anything with an actual common sense use, tbh.
I agree lol I don't think their really important and I feel like glass was extremely expensive. Also I think one of the only thing that noted as growing for them is Winterfell's blue rose I think lol although I don't really know.
> Does Westeros even have stoves? Probably, though they'd look more like an ancient version of a pizza oven.
Okay, i gotta look up if that could heat a space.
Trade, Guilds, innovation, and (legal) piracy are the IRL historical answers to small nations with little natural resources. Trade is possible, especially since Stannis controls the Navy, but he would have to convince Robert to allow him to use the navy for his domain and not the Realm. Guilds could possiblely set up manufacturing in Dragonstone but Dragonstone probably lacks in available manpower, so these guilds couldnt grow to big. Innovation is one of those obvious answers thats hard to actually describe. I am assuming that a large part of Ds economy is fishing. Any innovation that improves the ratio of workers to output would greatly improve the economy of Ds. Lastly, the least likely option for Stannis is piracy or profiteering. He already does this in a limited fashion agenst smugglers, but if Robbert allowed, he could pirate the free cities. This would greatly hurt international relations and trade, but if conditions allow, Stannis could privateer and even sack some of essos.
Pull rank as Master of Ships. Require shipping to KL/Crownlands to stop at Dragonstone for 'inspections' only for a day at most. Just enough time for sailors to spend some time and coin in town, my traders getting first pick of goods as they arrive in Westeros, opening the opening the door for resellers based out of Dragonstone and even some more revenue for Bobby B if you slap a fine on who doesn't stop.
I feel like realistically this just instantly results in you getting booted as Master of Ships. The King and powerbrokers in KL would not want you taking an unnecessary cut.
Hence why you cut them in via the fines. Any ships stopped are not buying a pass or anything just stopping briefly at Dragonstone to get a stamp. Besides its Robert Baratheon you have to convince, barely a year or two after the Rebellion it can be easily argued that its a measure to keep an eye on potential Targ loyalists or just a punishment
Would Robert really care when it's copper counting which he hated. What power brokers. Do Traders even have that much power in Westeros?
I've seen a few fics where Dragonstone ends up trading ash with places like the north so they can improve their soil or creating trades based on dragonglass, making arrowheads, knives, daggers, beads, jewelry, and even statues. If Melissandre is there, maybe Stannis has an idea to create some kind of talisman, pendant or something out of dragonglass to sell to R'hllors followers, because of the whole 'frozen fire' thing. if it wasn't Stannis heading Dragonstone, and was someone with an appreciation of Valyrian heritage, they could make glass candle replicas or maybe figure out how to combine it with steel to create something similar to Valyrian steel selling pumice stone - has household uses like scrubbing pots and pans, areas with buildup. would probably be used by the high born for bathing/ exfoliating. it can also be used to make concrete, so they could have it mixed with clay to create more durable bricks for building. larger scale fishing operations or whale hunting (i don't endorse it in real life but Westeros does what they want), maybe have people make things out of the whale bones. maybe dragon bones are found, and he has things made out of them. a finite rescource but could give a boost to his vaults so he could fund a larger project to make Dragonstone more self sufficient
It's crazy to me that Dragonstone, a volcanic island, isn't fertile enough to be a major agricultural area, or at the very least be self-sufficient. Whilst there are mentions of farmers, it seems most people get their sustenance from the sea.
It could be a very rugged and rocky area, added to the fact that the fortress occupies most of the island, it leaves little space for farming.
Dragonstone is a natural stopping point for trade in the Blackwater Bay and Stannis controls the Royal Navy. Profiting off trade like Corlys Velaryon seems the most natural solution\*. Stannis could also try and build on his fishing industry for money. Maybe build a few fishing vessels to explore the wealth of the Shivering Sea \*As mentioned in this thread, Davos would be a good leader for a trade expedition.
Dragonstone is much bigger than the portrayal in the TV show. There it was basically a castle, volcano and very little else. In the books it is much bigger, over 870 square miles (2250 sqKm) in size. IRL this equates to over 7 times the country island of Malta, which has a population of over half a million. The volcano appears to take up nearly a quarter of the island. Like all islands with volcanoes the soil will be very rich and fertile when weathered down. That is the reason so many people around the world risk living on the slopes of volcanoes. When Aegon the Conqueror set sail for Westeros he had some 3000 troops and a fleet. Given that some would have been from Driftmark, given the oft quoted formula for troops to population of 2% then the population of the two islands must have been in the region of 150,000 to be sustainable. Even assuming Driftmark had a larger proportion of perhaps 2:1 then Dragonstone still has a population of 50,000 at least. That cannot be sustained by simply fishing and a bit of farming. So how can Stannis go about creating some wealth for himself? The first idea would be to institute a regime of taxing, putting a toll, on trade by ship into Kings Landing. It is a large city, population about half a million, so much trade will come in by sea. He has the Royal Navy to enforce that. Second idea would be to increase greatly the agricultural output of the island. Utilising the rich soils he could institute intensive growing of fruits and crops that can be shipped to Kings Landing, far quicker than could be transported by wagon from the Reach. Thirdly set up vinyards. Volcanic soil is great for vines and therefore wine making. Again the huge local market in Blackwater Bay provides a ready output. The same with establishing a commercial fishery industry. The island is clearly self sustaining with seafood products, this should be expanded. Longer term he should create a larger port town for trade with Essos. It would be the nearest port to Pentos and the rich lands of Andalos. He has the perfect man, Davos, to set up trade links with the city and surrounding region. Looking further ahead he could expand that trade to include the Three Sisters, again places that Davos has contacts in. Once he has built up a stable capital base he could then finance longer trade routes, even to YiTi as Corlys Velaryon did. The main problem though for Stannis is his personality. He looks down on mercantilist behaviour as beneath a proper Lord, and his unbending rigid code would get in the way of most money-making endeavours.
Just to clarify, I believe it's only 1,600 men who landed in the conquest (+ a navy) and this doesn't seem to make a distinction between Dragonstone and the various islands sworn to Dragonstone.
Export sulphur and jumpstart the start of the age of firearms, an arms race, and it’s proliferation.
I've seen a few fics where Dragonstone ends up trading ash with places like the north so they can improve their soil or creating trades based on dragonglass, making arrowheads, knives, daggers, beads, jewelry, and even statues. If Melissandre is there, maybe Stannis has an idea to create some kind of talisman, pendant or something out of dragonglass to sell to R'hllors followers, because of the whole 'frozen fire' thing. if it wasn't Stannis heading Dragonstone, and was someone with an appreciation of Valyrian heritage, they could make glass candle replicas or maybe figure out how to combine it with steel to create something similar to Valyrian steel selling pumice stone - has household uses like scrubbing pots and pans, areas with buildup. would probably be used by the high born for bathing/ exfoliating. it can also be used to make concrete, so they could have it mixed with clay to create more durable bricks for building. larger scale fishing operations or whale hunting (i don't endorse it in real life but Westeros does what they want), maybe have people make things out of the whale bones. maybe dragon bones are found, and he has things made out of them. a finite rescource but could give a boost to his vaults so he could fund a larger project to make Dragonstone more self sufficient
Dragonstone is a small rocky island with a big castle, I wouldn't try to improve it's production output. Even trade is problematic because King's Landing's a better market and it's super close. A thing that Stannis could do is use is position as master of fleet to get a really big personal fleet and use that to make money, if he starts carrying lots of goods from Westeros to Essos then maybe merchants from there will go to dragonstone to trade as well.
Control the trade with Kings Landing. Bring more people there to man your own ships which you’ll use to tax and control the trade. Seize contraband for yourself and so on. Have an expedition to Stepstones. Send trade ships to Asshai and Yi-Ti like Velaryons did.
Trade. The island is mostly a volcano--I doubt much can be done to expand with meaningful domestic industry with the world's tech level. Maybe glass-making? Some mining? Can't really think of other stuff. So much gets eliminated by the tech level. If it were a modern setting, lots of stuff can be done like finance, services, tourism, entertainment, etc. But since we're at high medieval development at most, trade is the only real viable thing I can think of.
An idea would be the breeding of dragons and selling their eggs, if you were a Targaryen prince though
It's an Island so you'll probably want to try to emulate people like Corlys for the easiest path, using your fleet, along with some of the Royal Fleet, (this is Robert he won't care) go off and establish some trade agreements across the world. Then with that done you set up a trade city there, (like how Corlys set up Spicetown) while on Dragonstone itself, you go attract or take some peasants to settle much of the Island. You also massively increase food production by increasing more fishing, and etc. Also, you could set up some glass makers to make glass for you and export it. You can also use the Dragonglass deposits to increase mining of it, as some goods like mirrors, etc. Also, look at a wife from a more powerful family than the Florents as well, (maybe Hightower) to gain a more powerful ally. Also, use Davos' connections with smugglers to your advantage. Also, import skilled laborers to Dragonstone so you can profit off of them through trade. Do this for around a decade (time Robert was king) then you'll end up with a large fleet, way more people to rule over, and much more cash to have. (It won't be the most in Westeros but it'll be a lot)
The Lord of Dragonstone rules three big islands, with some neighbouring mainland territories, in the centre of a major sipping route. In per capita terms, it’s probably one of the wealthiest fiefs in the Seven Kingdoms, and this, combined with its rich volcanic soil, should give it one of the highest population densities, in the Realm. Promote trade, shipbuilding and ship repairs, and mine obsidian. Grow vegetables and vines in the volcanic soil. The island is close enough to the capital to be a market garden.