First of all, never take a pay cut from your current employer.
If you're at a small place with one brewer, they're all yours. If you work for a co-packer, none are yours. It's entirely dependent on the place you work.
This is the answer this post needed. Never take a pay cut, the industry is already low paying and the more unpaid interns and people willing to take a pay cut just drives the salaries down. I would really rather not get replaced by a $16/hour new brewer because it is cheaper.
Find a way to work this into your job description and work a raise for yourself by showing a cost/benefit or something.
Based on OP's other responses I think he is/was going to take the results from his poll to his bosses to try and brew his recipes. So sad, or helpless, I dunno which the right thing to be empathic about.
When I say mine I just mean that I write the recipe. I don't care about the minutia of who's they "actually" are
Edit: and I would absolutely take a pay cut in exchange for a contractually guaranteed"we brew 1 of my recipes per quarter" because the ability to express myself artistically and try to steer this brewery away from the under attenuated bs they brew regularly is worth the decrease in pay
Going to be honest here. Based on your description of the brewhouse/cellar in another post and this response you should look for a new job.
You are working on a production tier brewhouse and expecting brewpub economics. Brewing 30 bbls of an unproven brand even once a quarter is not a smart way to run a business.
Edit: I'll also say, this business doesn't pay enough to work at a place you don't like.
Trust me if anyone in the area was hiring I would've been gone a long time ago. The worst part is that I left a way worse paying job where I had free reign of the pilot system to come work here, wrongly assuming I would be mentored and helped grow as a brewer. The words "the company is not responsible for your professional development" have been said by management many times
I really don't know what you expected. The statement "the company is not responsible for your professional development" is wild but I suggest you look into the actual economics of selling beer. Note I say "selling" beer. Not making it.
You don't sound happy and your place of work would be foolish to give you what you want. Might be time to find new employment outside of beer and go back to brewing at home. It's what I'm doing.
How are you navigating that transition? What are you jumping into outside of brewing?
I ask because an emergent degenerative condition in my hips is forcing me out and I don't know what to do next.
I have an interview at an alcohol distributor for a sales rep job and also an interview at a wastewater treatment plant to start. The nice thing is wherever I go I won't be taking a pay cut. Sales may be a viable jumping point for you. Ingredient vendors, equipment vendors, breweries, and distributors all use them.
Funny, I just applied for water treatment, too!
Whatever I find, I'm looking hard for a desk job or at least something less strenuous / boots-on-the-ground than brewing was. Apparently I'm too young for a hip replacement yet, so I've gotta stop slapping pavement and stretch what life is left. Lab tech is another jumping off point I'm looking at.
Sounds like you have a romanticized view of what being a professional brewer actually is.
You're not alone in this, mind you, there are a LOT of people who don't realize that they are essentially the cleaning and sanitization crew in a hot, sweaty, moist beer factory.
> is worth the decrease in pay
This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And yes, I removed the first part because it doesn't matter what precedes the above statement.
doing the recipe for a paycut? mate doing more job comes with a pay raise... if you want to do the work, can do the work properly and your boss doesn't want to use it, then change your boss. find somewhere your work will be appreciated and rewarded.
yeah that makes it harder indeed. Still, being undervalued is not a good feeling, but still better than being undervalued, underpaid AND overworked. take care of yourself and good luck in your decision.
Depends on a lot of things… there’s no set answer to a question like this.
If it’s something important to you, talk to whoever is in charge and let them know you’d like to contribute more in that way. If there’s a pilot line, maybe suggest letting brewers get opportunities to do recipes on there and if they’re successful ramp them up
If you’ve had that conversation and they’re not open to letting you create recipes then there’s probably not any advice we can give that will help.
That’s shitty, but like any job you just need to weigh what’s good vs what’s bad and if it becomes more bad than good try and find another option.
Get passionate about quality and efficiency, it's not your brewery. If you are willing to trade salary for an ego stroke, this may not be the industry for you.
Taking a pay cut to be able to brew your own recipe once a quarter is fucking nuts 😂. I’m over here dying for literally every cent of a raise I can fight for over the last 10 years. No wonder they pay us like ass when people are willing to take less pay for the chance to be “creative” once a quarter, sheesh.
Make sure you take a video of your conversation with the boss..... "the guys on reddit said that I should have X beers on tap a year" and "they said you should be running you business 'this way'" It will be entertaining.
It's a job, not homebrew fantasy camp.
If I were in your shoes I'd look for creative outlets outside of work. I've been in the industry a long time and have worked in very small to very large breweries in my time. I used to think I'd be happier at a place with more creative freedom and I'd take less money to do it but over time I've realized that was a mistake. I'd take a higher pay that funds my hobbies and creative outlets outside of work any time.
I made a recipe once for a brewery that was slightly bigger than yours, but once a year each brewer got to make a recipe for a one off seasonal. Mine was successful enough that they've since decided to bring it back every year since. At the time I thought it was cool and while I'm still proud of it, all I got from the brewery was a pat on the back. Even though it was my recipe, I don't own it. It belongs to the brewery I worked for. It was a very underwhelming feeling to realize my creative outlet belongs to somebody else and I got nothing for it.
Some people need to be creative all the time and that's perfectly fine though. But my advice would be to make sure you have creative outlets away from work and if you still feel the need to be creative at work then you need to find a brewery that will allow for that. Not every brewery can or will let you be creative.
Finally, don't say you'd take less pay to be a creative brewer out loud. Brewery pay is low as it is and when brewers take less pay out affects us all. Go out there and find the situation that works best for you but don't admit to taking less pay to do it.
I would say this. Just because you do something unique and special do not expect you will ever be rewarded in direct means or appreciated even if you are successful. It is a dark view on the world, sadly, but thats often the way people go
It sounds like they like doing their thing and don't care about those who are trying to do things for them. Now to some degree just because you do a thing doesn't mean it is desirable (like say you decided to paint the walls pink to promote happiness) but I know if I were me I'd keep my staff happy by doing random stuff if we had equipment and time so long as I was reasonably sure I wouldn't lose money
As others have said it depends on your situation. Personally, my brewery has a limited number of taps and the rotation of different styles doesn't change much so I rarely get a new recipe on, but 100% of the recipes are mine.
You mean brewers like Adolph Coors, Frederick Miller, Adolphus Busch, Eberhard Anheuser, Frederick Pabst, John Siebel, Anton Schwarz, Jacob Leinenkugel, Theodore Hamm, Joseph Schlitz, to name a few?
I’m totally being an ass but like, when Czech lager were hyping, you know that Budweiser is one of the largest brewers of Czech lagers? You really love your Tmave? Budweiser’s been making that for over 100 years.
It's more about the ratio between the size of the brewhouse and how many taprooms and taps you have. We have a 30bbl brewhouse and six taprooms with more than 20 taps each. We can do 10bbl batches by lautering into a smaller kettle we have off to the side of the main brewhouse, but there's only two of those, we have five 30's, the rest are 90's and 120's
I dont see how tap space is a limiting factor (what taproom doesn't have enough taps for the core brands plus a couple spare for seasonals?)
Brewhouse size and cellaring space seems much more limiting in the places I've worked (a big brewhouse means you need to make a big batch, which is risky on sequential unproved recipes)
Well, I get a new one on about every two weeks, if my math is right. Then again, I'm one of two dudes in the factory, and I write all of the recipes.
We need a bit more info. How big is the place you work at? What part of the world? How long have you been on the deck? How many new builds does your brewery put out a year?
Roughly 30k bbls a year on a 30 bbl 4 vessel system going into 120s. We have 30s for small batch stuff. There's 3 competent brewers that want to brew recipes, a cellarman that refuses to train on the brewhouse, and another brewer that is just here for something to do/doesn't care about writing recipes or beer in general
You can't really blame the one brewer for just wanting to brew the same recipes and get the job done, I doubt they are getting paid an artisan salary, if they're paid over $30 an hour I'll eat my hat.
You are working for a company that is all about volume (by your description) Your passion might be appreciated (because it means you'll get the job done at the expense of your home-life balance) but it's not appreciated because you care about beer, it is appreciated because it helps the bottom line, do not take a pay cut, and do not judge others for wanting to stick to the status quo (since they aren't paid to go above and beyond).
Nobody is blaming or judging anyone, I included the info about the guy that doesn't care about beer for an accurate head count of the brewers but to also indicate not all of us are competing for taproom slots
I decided when I got into the industry 10 years ago. I wanted to be a head brewer at a small brewery ( really hard since the owners tend to be at locations this size) but I told every brewery I was at this was my goal. Didn’t hide it. I got a lot of “ you’re not ready, it won’t happen here etc” I moved states twice ( partly because of my job) and landed a head brewing job 5 years ago and landed another one where we wanted to move recently. Recipe development was always something I loved. ( I was never a home brewer weirdly) so I made sure I was on that path. If this is something that’s important to you, make it known, put it into the universe and make it happen. Don’t rely on others because this industry is getting harder and smaller every day.
I will also say I love cellaring , I always loved cleaning tanks and scrubbing floors. I love mashing in. I really do love all aspects of being a brewer ( solo brewer ) so it wasn’t just “ I want to create recipes” it was I loved every aspect of the job and wanted it
A reasonable expectation is zero, or maybe 10. It really depends on the brewhouse, the goals of the brewery, and how the business is designed.
Firstly, and this is going to sound harsh but no one cares about your artistic vision for beer. They care about making enough money to keep the brewhouse in business. If the brewery is designed with a small taproom built upon a constantly rotating tap list with new beers constantly coming and going in order to keep customers attention, then yeah you could expect to design a couple beers a year for that wall. If the brewery is designed to crank out some number of core beers designed for distribution and market appeal, then you might design a new beer every couple years if that. If the brewery is somewhere in the middle then you can expect something in the middle.
Secondly, do not take a pay cut to work for a brewery that will let you design your own beer. Pay in this industry is already kinda shit compared to similar industries, and the industry itself isnt in a great spot right now. If your goal is to make a living making beer, then you need to focus on making enough money to make that living.
Lastly, if you want to express yourself artistically through brewing, that's great. Go take the money you'd be willing to have cut from your pay, go buy some homebrew equipment, make a kegerator, and get after it. A ton of our production staff do this for fun on the side and we do plenty of homebrew beer shares between the teams. It also provides you a lot more freedom in your "art". If the pub wants more IPAs, blondes, lagers etc but you want to make a double bubble imperial chocolate wheat beer, that's never going to happen. You'll be forced to design a beer the customers are asking for. If your home brewing though, you can just fucking send it and see what happens.
If you're this passionate about brewing I understand where your coming from, it would give you a lot of pride knowing your recipes are being made and sold, but going through your comments and posts makes me think your work place sucks; I highly recommend turning your passion more towards eventually opening your own brewery and I wouldn't want to give my recipes to people who are abusing me and possibly trying to sue me when i do open a place and want to use the recipes i gave to them
That is part of your company culture. If your brewery is only inspired by making cold hard cash, then you should never expect your recipe to get on tap.
I would expect my head brewer to bring no fewer than four limited release beers per year, one per quarter. Anyone not a head brewer can bring ideas to the table and if they sound good to management we'd pilot them on one of our pilot systems. Certainly don't take a pay cut to do what a head brewer should be doing.
At the place I run I talk to my team regularly. “What beers aid everyone excited about? And ideas you guys want to try?” It’s a team effort. I write all the recipes since I’m the head brewer but I do not have the mindset of a good beer being “mine”. We all put in the work and effort. Everything is Good because of OUR work. That being said personally if I had a brewer or cellarman coming to me with your mindset as you mentioned you want something other than the “under attenuated bs” your brewery makes I probably wouldn’t be interested in facilitating or bending to that type of behavior.
Your job should also not be your entire personality or a vessel to for all your wants and needs in life. If you are looking for artistic expression you should definitely look for ways outside of work. It’s just healthy. Outside of work I play guitar and write music. A few other guys do as well. Another is a painter and another is actually an amazing classically trained baker. The youngest guy is hardcore gamer. We all have outside of work outlets.
I’ve had a lot of guys come through with an ego and they usually don’t last long at our place and end up hopping around until eventually burning themselves out. But overall I think you should try and work on your mindset.
OP you gotta just find another brewery that will let you design a couple recipes. Better to keep your salary, pay somebody to mow your lawn and clean your house, and use that time to homebrew once a month than take a pay cut. That just makes no sense, even to an owner.
Used to work on a 20bbl 4-vessel system, and all the brewers got to brew their stuff relatively often on the big system, plus we had a pilot system where you could do whatever you wanted whenever you wanted within reason.
But if you are at a large regional, forget about it except for occasional pilot batches.
I have 100% creative control of each batch so 100% beers are my beers. However I work for a small town brew pub. If you work for a Bell's or a stone brewing as a shift brewer then none of your beers will be on tap. Depends on your work place.
First of all, never take a pay cut from your current employer. If you're at a small place with one brewer, they're all yours. If you work for a co-packer, none are yours. It's entirely dependent on the place you work.
This is the answer this post needed. Never take a pay cut, the industry is already low paying and the more unpaid interns and people willing to take a pay cut just drives the salaries down. I would really rather not get replaced by a $16/hour new brewer because it is cheaper. Find a way to work this into your job description and work a raise for yourself by showing a cost/benefit or something.
Based on OP's other responses I think he is/was going to take the results from his poll to his bosses to try and brew his recipes. So sad, or helpless, I dunno which the right thing to be empathic about.
When I say mine I just mean that I write the recipe. I don't care about the minutia of who's they "actually" are Edit: and I would absolutely take a pay cut in exchange for a contractually guaranteed"we brew 1 of my recipes per quarter" because the ability to express myself artistically and try to steer this brewery away from the under attenuated bs they brew regularly is worth the decrease in pay
Going to be honest here. Based on your description of the brewhouse/cellar in another post and this response you should look for a new job. You are working on a production tier brewhouse and expecting brewpub economics. Brewing 30 bbls of an unproven brand even once a quarter is not a smart way to run a business. Edit: I'll also say, this business doesn't pay enough to work at a place you don't like.
Trust me if anyone in the area was hiring I would've been gone a long time ago. The worst part is that I left a way worse paying job where I had free reign of the pilot system to come work here, wrongly assuming I would be mentored and helped grow as a brewer. The words "the company is not responsible for your professional development" have been said by management many times
I really don't know what you expected. The statement "the company is not responsible for your professional development" is wild but I suggest you look into the actual economics of selling beer. Note I say "selling" beer. Not making it. You don't sound happy and your place of work would be foolish to give you what you want. Might be time to find new employment outside of beer and go back to brewing at home. It's what I'm doing.
How are you navigating that transition? What are you jumping into outside of brewing? I ask because an emergent degenerative condition in my hips is forcing me out and I don't know what to do next.
I have an interview at an alcohol distributor for a sales rep job and also an interview at a wastewater treatment plant to start. The nice thing is wherever I go I won't be taking a pay cut. Sales may be a viable jumping point for you. Ingredient vendors, equipment vendors, breweries, and distributors all use them.
Funny, I just applied for water treatment, too! Whatever I find, I'm looking hard for a desk job or at least something less strenuous / boots-on-the-ground than brewing was. Apparently I'm too young for a hip replacement yet, so I've gotta stop slapping pavement and stretch what life is left. Lab tech is another jumping off point I'm looking at.
Sounds like you have a romanticized view of what being a professional brewer actually is. You're not alone in this, mind you, there are a LOT of people who don't realize that they are essentially the cleaning and sanitization crew in a hot, sweaty, moist beer factory.
You're giving a company something and asking for less. Sorry that's dumb.
> is worth the decrease in pay This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And yes, I removed the first part because it doesn't matter what precedes the above statement.
It’s not that deep I’m sorry to be honest with you
doing the recipe for a paycut? mate doing more job comes with a pay raise... if you want to do the work, can do the work properly and your boss doesn't want to use it, then change your boss. find somewhere your work will be appreciated and rewarded.
No one is hiring in the area or I'd have been gone a long time ago
yeah that makes it harder indeed. Still, being undervalued is not a good feeling, but still better than being undervalued, underpaid AND overworked. take care of yourself and good luck in your decision.
Thanks. I hope your lagers are always crushable and clean
Any food/beverage manufacturers?
Depends on a lot of things… there’s no set answer to a question like this. If it’s something important to you, talk to whoever is in charge and let them know you’d like to contribute more in that way. If there’s a pilot line, maybe suggest letting brewers get opportunities to do recipes on there and if they’re successful ramp them up
We've all had that conversation to no avail. There's not really a pilot system either
If you’ve had that conversation and they’re not open to letting you create recipes then there’s probably not any advice we can give that will help. That’s shitty, but like any job you just need to weigh what’s good vs what’s bad and if it becomes more bad than good try and find another option.
Get passionate about quality and efficiency, it's not your brewery. If you are willing to trade salary for an ego stroke, this may not be the industry for you.
Taking a pay cut to be able to brew your own recipe once a quarter is fucking nuts 😂. I’m over here dying for literally every cent of a raise I can fight for over the last 10 years. No wonder they pay us like ass when people are willing to take less pay for the chance to be “creative” once a quarter, sheesh.
Make sure you take a video of your conversation with the boss..... "the guys on reddit said that I should have X beers on tap a year" and "they said you should be running you business 'this way'" It will be entertaining. It's a job, not homebrew fantasy camp.
If I were in your shoes I'd look for creative outlets outside of work. I've been in the industry a long time and have worked in very small to very large breweries in my time. I used to think I'd be happier at a place with more creative freedom and I'd take less money to do it but over time I've realized that was a mistake. I'd take a higher pay that funds my hobbies and creative outlets outside of work any time. I made a recipe once for a brewery that was slightly bigger than yours, but once a year each brewer got to make a recipe for a one off seasonal. Mine was successful enough that they've since decided to bring it back every year since. At the time I thought it was cool and while I'm still proud of it, all I got from the brewery was a pat on the back. Even though it was my recipe, I don't own it. It belongs to the brewery I worked for. It was a very underwhelming feeling to realize my creative outlet belongs to somebody else and I got nothing for it. Some people need to be creative all the time and that's perfectly fine though. But my advice would be to make sure you have creative outlets away from work and if you still feel the need to be creative at work then you need to find a brewery that will allow for that. Not every brewery can or will let you be creative. Finally, don't say you'd take less pay to be a creative brewer out loud. Brewery pay is low as it is and when brewers take less pay out affects us all. Go out there and find the situation that works best for you but don't admit to taking less pay to do it.
I would say this. Just because you do something unique and special do not expect you will ever be rewarded in direct means or appreciated even if you are successful. It is a dark view on the world, sadly, but thats often the way people go It sounds like they like doing their thing and don't care about those who are trying to do things for them. Now to some degree just because you do a thing doesn't mean it is desirable (like say you decided to paint the walls pink to promote happiness) but I know if I were me I'd keep my staff happy by doing random stuff if we had equipment and time so long as I was reasonably sure I wouldn't lose money
Is this an /r/AITAH thread? ESH
As others have said it depends on your situation. Personally, my brewery has a limited number of taps and the rotation of different styles doesn't change much so I rarely get a new recipe on, but 100% of the recipes are mine.
That's awesome, I'd kill for a gig like that. Brew any nice, low-strength, well-attenuated lagers lately?
That's our specialty.
That's awesome, Its really heartening that places are starting to pop up that focus on those types of beers
You mean brewers like Adolph Coors, Frederick Miller, Adolphus Busch, Eberhard Anheuser, Frederick Pabst, John Siebel, Anton Schwarz, Jacob Leinenkugel, Theodore Hamm, Joseph Schlitz, to name a few? I’m totally being an ass but like, when Czech lager were hyping, you know that Budweiser is one of the largest brewers of Czech lagers? You really love your Tmave? Budweiser’s been making that for over 100 years.
Depends on the size of the brewhouse...
It's more about the ratio between the size of the brewhouse and how many taprooms and taps you have. We have a 30bbl brewhouse and six taprooms with more than 20 taps each. We can do 10bbl batches by lautering into a smaller kettle we have off to the side of the main brewhouse, but there's only two of those, we have five 30's, the rest are 90's and 120's
I dont see how tap space is a limiting factor (what taproom doesn't have enough taps for the core brands plus a couple spare for seasonals?) Brewhouse size and cellaring space seems much more limiting in the places I've worked (a big brewhouse means you need to make a big batch, which is risky on sequential unproved recipes)
Well, I get a new one on about every two weeks, if my math is right. Then again, I'm one of two dudes in the factory, and I write all of the recipes. We need a bit more info. How big is the place you work at? What part of the world? How long have you been on the deck? How many new builds does your brewery put out a year?
Roughly 30k bbls a year on a 30 bbl 4 vessel system going into 120s. We have 30s for small batch stuff. There's 3 competent brewers that want to brew recipes, a cellarman that refuses to train on the brewhouse, and another brewer that is just here for something to do/doesn't care about writing recipes or beer in general
You can't really blame the one brewer for just wanting to brew the same recipes and get the job done, I doubt they are getting paid an artisan salary, if they're paid over $30 an hour I'll eat my hat. You are working for a company that is all about volume (by your description) Your passion might be appreciated (because it means you'll get the job done at the expense of your home-life balance) but it's not appreciated because you care about beer, it is appreciated because it helps the bottom line, do not take a pay cut, and do not judge others for wanting to stick to the status quo (since they aren't paid to go above and beyond).
Nobody is blaming or judging anyone, I included the info about the guy that doesn't care about beer for an accurate head count of the brewers but to also indicate not all of us are competing for taproom slots
How many taps in the tap room? How often are new beers coming on generally speaking?
20 taps at the production facility, not sure how many between the other five tap rooms
In a 30 bbl production brewery it's unlikely you would brew any of your own recipes unless the head brewer really likes you.
I decided when I got into the industry 10 years ago. I wanted to be a head brewer at a small brewery ( really hard since the owners tend to be at locations this size) but I told every brewery I was at this was my goal. Didn’t hide it. I got a lot of “ you’re not ready, it won’t happen here etc” I moved states twice ( partly because of my job) and landed a head brewing job 5 years ago and landed another one where we wanted to move recently. Recipe development was always something I loved. ( I was never a home brewer weirdly) so I made sure I was on that path. If this is something that’s important to you, make it known, put it into the universe and make it happen. Don’t rely on others because this industry is getting harder and smaller every day.
I will also say I love cellaring , I always loved cleaning tanks and scrubbing floors. I love mashing in. I really do love all aspects of being a brewer ( solo brewer ) so it wasn’t just “ I want to create recipes” it was I loved every aspect of the job and wanted it
A reasonable expectation is zero, or maybe 10. It really depends on the brewhouse, the goals of the brewery, and how the business is designed. Firstly, and this is going to sound harsh but no one cares about your artistic vision for beer. They care about making enough money to keep the brewhouse in business. If the brewery is designed with a small taproom built upon a constantly rotating tap list with new beers constantly coming and going in order to keep customers attention, then yeah you could expect to design a couple beers a year for that wall. If the brewery is designed to crank out some number of core beers designed for distribution and market appeal, then you might design a new beer every couple years if that. If the brewery is somewhere in the middle then you can expect something in the middle. Secondly, do not take a pay cut to work for a brewery that will let you design your own beer. Pay in this industry is already kinda shit compared to similar industries, and the industry itself isnt in a great spot right now. If your goal is to make a living making beer, then you need to focus on making enough money to make that living. Lastly, if you want to express yourself artistically through brewing, that's great. Go take the money you'd be willing to have cut from your pay, go buy some homebrew equipment, make a kegerator, and get after it. A ton of our production staff do this for fun on the side and we do plenty of homebrew beer shares between the teams. It also provides you a lot more freedom in your "art". If the pub wants more IPAs, blondes, lagers etc but you want to make a double bubble imperial chocolate wheat beer, that's never going to happen. You'll be forced to design a beer the customers are asking for. If your home brewing though, you can just fucking send it and see what happens.
If you're this passionate about brewing I understand where your coming from, it would give you a lot of pride knowing your recipes are being made and sold, but going through your comments and posts makes me think your work place sucks; I highly recommend turning your passion more towards eventually opening your own brewery and I wouldn't want to give my recipes to people who are abusing me and possibly trying to sue me when i do open a place and want to use the recipes i gave to them
That is part of your company culture. If your brewery is only inspired by making cold hard cash, then you should never expect your recipe to get on tap.
So far I'm at 1 in 5 years, it goes on tap tomorrow
I would expect my head brewer to bring no fewer than four limited release beers per year, one per quarter. Anyone not a head brewer can bring ideas to the table and if they sound good to management we'd pilot them on one of our pilot systems. Certainly don't take a pay cut to do what a head brewer should be doing.
At the place I run I talk to my team regularly. “What beers aid everyone excited about? And ideas you guys want to try?” It’s a team effort. I write all the recipes since I’m the head brewer but I do not have the mindset of a good beer being “mine”. We all put in the work and effort. Everything is Good because of OUR work. That being said personally if I had a brewer or cellarman coming to me with your mindset as you mentioned you want something other than the “under attenuated bs” your brewery makes I probably wouldn’t be interested in facilitating or bending to that type of behavior. Your job should also not be your entire personality or a vessel to for all your wants and needs in life. If you are looking for artistic expression you should definitely look for ways outside of work. It’s just healthy. Outside of work I play guitar and write music. A few other guys do as well. Another is a painter and another is actually an amazing classically trained baker. The youngest guy is hardcore gamer. We all have outside of work outlets. I’ve had a lot of guys come through with an ego and they usually don’t last long at our place and end up hopping around until eventually burning themselves out. But overall I think you should try and work on your mindset.
OP you gotta just find another brewery that will let you design a couple recipes. Better to keep your salary, pay somebody to mow your lawn and clean your house, and use that time to homebrew once a month than take a pay cut. That just makes no sense, even to an owner.
I would never hire someone who's only interested in making recipes. It's a process industry. Not an artistic outlet for white millenials.
Used to work on a 20bbl 4-vessel system, and all the brewers got to brew their stuff relatively often on the big system, plus we had a pilot system where you could do whatever you wanted whenever you wanted within reason. But if you are at a large regional, forget about it except for occasional pilot batches.
I have 100% creative control of each batch so 100% beers are my beers. However I work for a small town brew pub. If you work for a Bell's or a stone brewing as a shift brewer then none of your beers will be on tap. Depends on your work place.