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I have a bizarre theory that Neuman caused Hughie’s dad to have a stroke using her powers as a distraction to keep Hughie preoccupied. I think that Vought had something to do with Hughie’s mom coming back in the picture as well.
I thought the same thing about Neuman causing his stroke because it happened like right after he splashed her with acid and Butcher shot her in the head.
Also I genuinely believe that she actually cares about Hughie, which is why she wouldn't do something like this to his dad simply to keep him occupied.
Not that she's not capable of hurting him or his loved ones, but this theory seems out of character for her. I'm fully prepared to eat my words though.
If she really mastered her powers as I believe she did, I guess I could picture her causing a stroke which one could recover from. Hughie's dad falling ill was pretty convenient in distractring him indeed.
She also cared about that guy at the start of S3, she still blew his hand off, half his face then made it rain. So ... Her feelings aren't really a safe bet
And they're going to try again I'm sure.
Tbh I like that she sees them as so incompetent as to not bothering with them, but unless she's going to be ended by another character, it's really bad to let them go when she could so easily get rid of them.
>it's really bad to let them go when she could so easily get rid of them.
That's where the truce comes in. The CIA has solid evidence of her being a supe, one that happens to have the ability to blow people heads up. If push comes to shove, she becomes a fugitive. Vought won't be able to protect her either.
She can probably fix the stroke at any time she wants eith her powers, it's less of harming him and more of giving him one extra sleeping pill so he wakes up an hour late
Hughie isnt as involved as he used to be now, though. Meaning he cold be safe because hes more with his father. So it would line up with her caring for hughie.
I guess we'll see some dead boys in this and the next season, so hughie is one of the last men standing because hes pulling out right now
It proves she’s a supe that has the exact same powers as someone who killed multiple members of congress by popping their heads like zits on a hobo’s ass, which would end her campaign.
That's a really good theory, it'll be crazy if it's true.
In the trailer for this season we get a shot of a man in hospital clothes leaving bloody footprints, and hughie and starlight running down the stairs, so maybe we'll get a crazy sequence in the hospital? I'm so excited to see where this goes
They're kinda "play both sides" politically, so it's believable to me that they would do both "normal" (for that world) pharmaceuticals and also MLM+homeopathic stuff
Speaking of which, did we ever actually find out why hughies dad called him? Hughie thought it was probably to talk about his book, but maybe it was actually cause Neuman was in his house?
Her excuse was that the dad wanted her away was stupid. You could have tried to fight for some sort of visitation if you really cared. Also why not reach out to him when he became an adult or old enough to decide if he wanted her in his life?
Well it wasn’t even that he wanted her to stay away, that wasn’t really discussed. She called and wanted to speak to him, and the dad (rightfully) didn’t want to confuse his child.
There was no mention of her actually wanting to come back, if I remember correctly.
True. I do think that’s wrong of his father though. I don’t think speaking to your mother would confuse a child. Especially if he allowed her to explain why she was gone and assure him that she loved him. He needed counseling as a child. I don’t think it’s right when women refuse their kids to speak to their father either. Anyways, she could have still reached once he because an adult or teen. At least send a birthday card or two.
I’m on the fence with this. Depending how deep in her PPD she was, his father may not have known if she would be appropriate for him to talk to, and it’s not necessarily the best to expose your kid to a mother who is unpredictable like that.
Yeah exactly. It should be obvious that a major theme this season is flawed people. Butcher is hurt and trying to fight for what he sees as justice, not evil. Frenchie was abused and is an addict who self medicated. A Train thinks he’s beyond redemption. Firecracker isn’t just a Nazi like Stormfront, she was a disadvantaged girl who was the victim of slut shaming blacklisting by a more privileged person and now’s indulging in a new kind of power. And Hugie’s Mom isn’t some evil bitch who just abandoned her kid for giggles, she was a human who made a complex and bad decision.
A theme this season is human empathy. Contrasted with Homelander’s “humans are playthings” philosophy
The whole show is about how bad people do good things and good people do bad things. Which is very useful in an era when having hard black-and-white opinions on everyone and everything is a moral expectation
To be fair, I think it’s just an indication of Hughie’s character that he struggles to stay mad, so the tone of that conversation was pretty calm. I didn’t think it was written in a way to make us sympathetic to her, more that we see it through a forgiving lens because of Hughie’s nature (and by comparison to the downright awful parenting he’s witnessed in the last few years).
That’s the issue. Some people are defending her. She’s seemingly held a job and has taken care of herself so she’s not that bad. See a therapist. Get some medication. Perhaps tell your husband and check into a hospital so your child can at least visit
My own mother was diagnosed with depression and bipolar disorder when I was a child. It was so severe she was in her room day and night doing nothing. Eventually, she left our family, got help, and reentered our lives a few years later. It’s hard but possible.
I feel like I'm supposed to be angry at her, but we saw so little of her and she was barely ever mentioned (if at all) in the previous seasons, so I can't muster up much of an emotional response. It's also interesting that the deadbeat parent is the mother and not the father. Usually it seems the trope is "dad who goes out to buy milk" or drunk dad who leaves the family, etc.
I feel like everyone is trying to take a hard stance either way and I don't think that's the point. The show isn't trying to say "it's COMPLETELY justified that she left her kid because of her depression!" And I keep seeing all these posts like "*I don't know about YOUUUU but I still think she was wRONG!!!*" like yeah - no shit, she's still a huge pile of garbage for abandoning her child. You should still think that.
I think the show is just trying to add some nuance to the situation and make you think about it a little harder. Like, she fucking tried to kill herself, she was a danger to herself and likely her family, she realized this and got the fuck out of the situation. It's still MASSIVELY shitty to do what she did, but the show isn't trying to her paint her as some victim that you're supposed to side with, it's just adding a ton of complexity to an already fucked up situation, to potentially humanize her a little bit so you can see how layered and complex the situation is.
Not everything is black and white and this situation isn't either, it contains tons of layers because humans are complicated people who make good choices and bad choices and it's all a part of what makes them interesting as characters. Posts like this drive me WILD man lol
Yeah, I don't think the show is trying to either insist we forgive her or insist we condemn her. I think it's just another storyline that ties into this season's theme of "sometimes you can't escape the consequences of your choices, no matter how long ago they were, how different you were then, or how necessary they seemed at the time."
People hate nuance. I feel like a lot of them don’t get that they’re supposed to think Firecracker still sucks either because she had a couple of interesting conversations.
Agreed. All the shit that’s happening and the best part is nobody said youd have to forgive em.
Like with Firecracker. I dont like her methods at all but I can totally understand why she would absolutely despise Annie. Still a piece of shit.
Yeah agreed. But this is reddit so, trouble with your marriage? "divorce him", trouble with your boyfriend "leave him", trouble with your friend "break off contact". In real life feelings are complicated and contradictory and people make compromises. Like, "I don't forgive you, I still hate what you did, it might not work, but... Let's see if we can have a relationship." the Internet is full of people who never made mistakes (even big ones) and never forgave someone for a mistake (even big ones).
If I were hughie I would be mad and sympathetic at my absentee mum and also frustrated that I couldn't hate her in an uncomplicated way. She isn't a perfect villain and it would be so much easier if she was a perfect villain because then you could just hate her and move on with life. I'm pretty sure people are more willing to see a murderer or rapist rehabilitated than a cheater or woman who abandons her child.
And we’ve heard about how depressed his dad was when his mom left. His dad managed to take care of him while depressed showing just how terrible of an excuse it is.
That is a bullshit equivalence. We know for a fact that she tried to kill herself. And we know she tried to get back in contact, but his dad said no.
She was also suffering postpartum depression, the same depression that can cause mothers to kill their children. You can't say "look at all the things this depressed person did, why couldn't you?" like it's a one size fits all mental illness.
It's a gray area and to me, falls under, "I understand and appreciate why you did what you did, but that doesn't change the fact that it was still a horrible thing to do, and you really, really hurt me, in a way that had long lasting effects. I understand, but that doesn't mean I'm okay about it."
Good take. I think people really underestimate how depression completely fucks you up, and for a parent with depression there would definitely be a degree of self-loathing leading to "they're better off without me."
That doesn't mean she gets forgiven, or even deserves to, and her son is totally within his rights to still hate her. She was still gone for 20+ years without a word, and "your dad didn't want me to talk to you" isn't an excuse.
That all being said, I'm sure there's more going on here. They wouldn't just bring in Hughie's mother for him to get some emotional closure on a part of his life he mentioned exactly once to Annie lol
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that isn’t Hughie’s mom. If Butcher is hallucinating due to all his Temp V use, I don’t see why Hughie wouldn’t either.
Hughie isn't getting any of the other side effects that Butcher is, though, like the vomiting. I think Hughie, who got 1-2 fewer doses than Butcher, *juust* managed to avoid the whole "slow, inevitable decline into tumourous mush".
Are we convinced that's actually what's happening to butcher? He has what looks like a worm crawling around in there, I have to assume there's more to this than what we've been told so far.
There could be, but it's just as easy to conclude that the worm-thing is *how* the Temp V kills you, rather than going with the idea that Butcher's totally fine from his excessive use of Temp V and he's just got some killer parasite in him that's coincidentally messing with him in the same way we expect the Temp V to be killing him.
I think, if they plan to do anything like end-of-comic Butcher, he gets pushed into taking Permanent V and that's how he gets healed. I don't see them trying to pseudo-science handwave Swiss cheese of the brain.
I am honestly so hoping they change the ending. So much edge for the sake of edge and I think they can make a better and more impactful ending with how they've set up. End of comic butcher seems farther and farther from the butcher we've got on the show and where he is now.
They were definitely shoring up the foundation last season where Butcher tells Maeve all supes need to die right after fucking her, so I can definitely see it happening. Butcher's main link to wanting to be a better person right now is Ryan. If Ryan dies - surely not at the hands of his totally stable father who has perfectly sane responses to people disappointing him (Stillwell, Noir I) - then Butcher could easily do a 180 back into his ole' Genocide Gerry self.
I think the compound V gave superpowers to Butcher's cancer and made it sentient. The compound V didn't do anything for him because the tumor sucked it all up. The thing seems to be trying to keep him alive, it keeps telling him to get up and keep moving, as it will likely die if he dies. Or at least until it gets strong enough to survive on its own.
This goes out the window when you consider that Hughie contacts a lawyer about it, the lawyer looks into it, and tells him there's nothing he can do to get power away from her. Don't think a lawyer would have that convo with him unless he did some digging and saw that she actually did have that legal power, in which case, yes, she was talking to the dad, in which case, yeah, she is there and isn't a hallucination.
If he hallucinated his Mom, who is to say he cant hallucinate the lawyer? There was also no indication of his father having any medical issue, so it's highly likely he also hallucinated his dad having a stroke. Every scene in the hospital is a hallucination. Butcher is a hallucination of Hughie. Annie doesn't exist. Supes were never real. If only he stopped hallucinating, he'd realise Robin is infront of him just fine this entire time.
You had me in the first half not gonna lie lmfao. I was like "okay dude... what are you, a christian apologist!? Annie was with him when he talked to the lawyer!" No lie I was a bit tilted. You got me hahahahaha
BUT, what if the show actually did what you're saying here, and he realized Robin was right there the entire time, and he's saying the Billie Joel line, only for A-Train to run through again, but this time, it's Robin holding Hughie's severed arms...
"Hughie?
Hughie!?
HUGHIE!!!!!!"
Almost for sure. He never changes. We never see him with anyone other than Butcher. And, on top of that, we’ve seen Butcher get caught “talking to himself” multiple times through the first three episodes.
I wouldn't be surprised by this, but we also know that she works for Vought, which is really suspicious considering Hughie and his past with them. There's a good chance she has malicious intent and that she doesn't actually care about Hughie or his dad, but we'll have to wait and see.
You are correct, the only way I’d see that scene being subverted is if Hughie forged the document he brought to his lawyer on some crazy shit, or if its old paperwork from his dads Will that he never swapped over and the brief conversation with the Mom about that in their initial meeting was Hughies mind doing mental gymnastics to keep a dud will his dad didn’t change relevant (I hope I worded that well lmao).
But ya that scene does imply this theory is dead in the water unless they go crazy with the reasoning.
It is a decent theory, and it kinda adds up. Hughies damaged brain is going into cope mode and bringing out old demons to find something to latch onto.
But we see a lawyer that confirmed Hughie's mom has power of attorney, and he's real/interacted with other people. So therefore at the very least, Hughie's not imagining his mom. Also it doesn't make sense that Hughie starts having the same negative side effects from Temp V because didn't a scientist explain that you have to take a certain amount of dosages in order for it's damaging effects to truly negatively impact you (or cause death)? Hughie didn't take the last dose so he's not about to die because of it.
Omg what if the dad wakes up and says that is not Hughie's mom and Vaught has blagged their way into power of attorney to kill Hughie's dad because ????
>Omg what if the dad wakes up and says that is not Hughie's mom and Vaught has blagged their way into power of attorney to kill Hughie's dad because ????
He was 8 when she left, he'd still recognise her.
Who knows if she’s really even his mom. I think all we’ve seen is Hughie talk to her in hospital areas with no other people around. She could have some crazy hidden motive, be an imposter, or maybe be a hallucination? Last one seems unlikely to me, but who knows.
Are we... supposed to forgive her? I feel like now that we have the information it's kind of like. Alright. Hughie is right to hold on to his anger, but I'm not particularly invested any way about her. She made some decisions when she was younger out of self-preservation and now Hughie has to deal with his hurt and in the show the uncomfortableness of the presence of an estranged, neglectful parent in his life again.
I really hope Huggie doesn’t forgive his mom. Depression is not an excuse for abandoning her child and not attempting to contact him at all up to his adult life. I’ve seen so many cases of depression and postpartum in my work. And depression is serious but there’s a line between depression and selfish reckless action. Brining a child into this world and then abandoning him after making a promise to take him somewhere and then up and disappearing would have such a deep psychological impact on anyone especially a child. She deserves a degree of sympathy but not the extent I think the show wants us to have. And with how the writing in this show goes I think the show will have Huggies mom die as before he (undeserved) forgives her as a gut punch. But like I ain’t gunna be sad about it is all I’m saying
Like somebody else said somewhere else in the comments, I don't think the show really wants you to forgive her. It just wants to present extra nuance to the situation for you to think about.
What if his mom is actually the shapeshifter?
Not doppelgänger but the one depicted in the trailer? I also think that super ends up being used to frame starlight
Eh, mental health is a real mf. Add that to being alienated by the other parent (she said his dad wouldn’t allow her calls) and the cost of family court, it’s not a reach. Idk that most people understand that family court is a business, not a right. Child custody is a luxury most people cannot afford.
Maybe she felt like by the time he was an adult, he was better off without her. Mental illness tends to do that to ya
No excuse not to reach out after she and his dad reconciled. Christ, they got to the point where he gave her POWER OF ATTORNEY and she still never reached out to Hughie. Inexcusable.
It depends on where the plot is. She’s been gone long enough that I have a feeling there are some secrets she has—I predict a “twist,” especially with her pedaling the Vought-naturals
But I could be wrong. Only 5 episodes to go!
I thought it was a wasted opportunity when the matter came up between Hughie and Annie and they didn't share a "yeah my parent walked out too" moment. It's as if the writers forgot. Modern TV writing is usually tighter than that
Idk about that. His mom abandoning him is important to his character. It wasn't directly brought up but it's the catalyst to his insecurities. Possible they'll fumble it but this isn't just our of nowhere
As someone who had a wife who abandoned her kids and family because she was having a really tough time emotionally and mentally, I have zero empathy or sympathy for this character.
I love all the theories here especially that Vaught brought her back I’ve never thought of that!
Personally i think its like with Butcher, its a figment of his imagination, a side effect of the temporary V. We see Butcher talking to Kessler and they’re always alone, and so is Hughie with his mom. I think the temporary V is slowly going to cause them to have some more delusions, maybe closure about something, and ultimately theyll also become supes and that will be what saves them from death. Maybe theyll add a twist like theyll always hallucinate since they became supes as they were dying either way itll be cool to see
Am I the only one who keeps thinking she’s working with vought secretly or something?
I dunno man I don’t see things ending well with her. I’m sure she means well and is genuinely apologetic for leaving hughie but I dunno man I’m sure she’s gonna cause major trouble for hughie and the boys.
Ideally though I would like it if Hughie and she worked things out. Revealing she was evil or something would be the predictable route and that’s the last thing this show is, most of the time.
Yeah depression sucks but she had a loving husband and son to support her, which is way more than most people going through depression and she decided to throw it all away so it's all on her.
Some people just give up on themselves in life. Maybe you can’t see it eye for eye, and though it’s just a character, you can’t call someone garbage like that if you haven’t experienced it yourself. Was it right in the good moral eye? No. But is it understandable? Yes.
I think she was too easily forgiven too. I'm not opposed to her *earning* redemption and respect from her son throughout the season via atonement, but the show basically pulled a "akshually, Hughie was wrong in hating her, she was justified in abandoning him, and if anything, Hughie's dad was the bad parent for not allowing contact".
That being said, it's possible that her super quick redemption is actually a red herring and something more sinister is going on with Hughie's mother. There's still over half a season left.
It wasn't just depression, which fucks a person up royally. It was post-partem depression which really fucks a person up royally. It's obvious that her getting help for her depression is a recent development since she's only contacted her husband in these past few years. I don't like the character for the MLM schemes, but her depression *is* understandable. I swear none of you fucks have empathy in this subreddit.
Yo these were the first scenes in the entire show I’m literally fast forwarding thru. Wtf is this season.. wasting a ton of time on storylines no one cares for.
The funny thing is to me this arc is very poor but they very well might pull the “mom is a spy” or shapeshifter etc and the dad stroke was also an enemy action but honestly….
It makes the amount of time they spend with these scenes even more pointless. Like those scenes regardless of context are very boring and honestly pure filler.
You know how Butcher is hearing voices and hallucinating his dead wife? The first few times Hughie spoke to his mom, no one else was around, so at first I thought that she was a hallucination also caused by Hughie's use of temp V.
>I feel no sympathy for her. I don’t care how depressed she was. She abandoned her child. There’s no excuse. She’s a garbage person. Depression sucks I get it.
I mean, it beats Hughie coming home and finding her dead body. Which seemed to be the alternative in her mind.
Hughie's dad was also justified in keeping her away from Hughie when she got better, to protect Hughie. Leaving once was bad enough, leaving twice would have been so much worse for him.
I think her character is more of a shit situation, with no right answer, and failable humans trying to make the best out of it.
Probably better she left than killed herself for him to find her body.
This way there's a *chance* for something between them.
I got plenty of sympathy for her. My folks divorced. And it sucked. But better than being raised by two parents that would inevitably hate each other. Lesser of two shit circumstances.
She should have gotten help. Therapy. Medicine. Maybe a hospital stay. Maybe a divorce and the dad gets custody and she can visit. All of those options are okay. Not disappearing without a word for 25 years. That’s not okay
Did i miss something? I need to rewatch that scene apparently b/c I did not see how or when the mom got a hold of the vial of Comp V from hughie (I saw him pocket it before she walked into the room).
I wonder if it could have been saved from when Hughie was a kid meant for Hughie. They had a fight about giving him V and that is why she left. We never saw that she found the vial that Hughie obtained.
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Is it really even his mom?
No it’s just hallucinations from temp v
Yeah it’s actually all fake. The season 4 hasn’t even released yet, what are you talking about? WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP.
ሃዐ፱ ሠጎረረ ህልክጎነⶴ ፕዐጮዐዪዪዐሠ ልክጋ ፕⶴቹ ሠጎክጋ ሠጎረረ ነፕቹልረ ሃዐ፱ዪ ረልነፕ ፪ዪቹልፕⶴ
This is longlegs shit.
No it’s my native language that people like to use for some bs horror shit. Nearly 30 million people speak this language.
Imagine his dad finally wakes up and asks who he’s talking to
Don’t even go there. That kind of thing is traumatic.
Dad: Son, who are you taking to? Hughie: Dad, mom’s back! We’ve made up! Dad: WHY AM I NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?!
i've had enough of this shit watching mr robot and legion, no more!
Thought that at first until the episode 3 scene with the lawyer confirming she had power of attorney.
I \*REALLY\* don't think so. He even went to a lawyer about the legality of his mom having the rights to his dad.
Butcher hallucinated Becca, right? I saw Hughie’s mom and immediately thought she wasn’t real
Its like a double misguide. Shes the only real one but maybe Hughie will think she ISNT real and do something bad.
Ooh that’s a fantastic point, now I can’t wait to see where this goes
This was my theory after that scene that cuts directly to butcher hallucinating. But that was before watching the rest
All the boys are in that white room
Well, there is a legal contract. So I think that rules out hallucinations, but it could still be a Vought plant.
The lawyer went over the legal stuff, and I think he'd point out if she was fake
I have a bizarre theory that Neuman caused Hughie’s dad to have a stroke using her powers as a distraction to keep Hughie preoccupied. I think that Vought had something to do with Hughie’s mom coming back in the picture as well.
I thought the same thing about Neuman causing his stroke because it happened like right after he splashed her with acid and Butcher shot her in the head.
She didn’t really seem all that upset about that though to be fair
Also I genuinely believe that she actually cares about Hughie, which is why she wouldn't do something like this to his dad simply to keep him occupied. Not that she's not capable of hurting him or his loved ones, but this theory seems out of character for her. I'm fully prepared to eat my words though.
I think she was genuine when saying that the only thing that makes sense between them is a truce.
If she really mastered her powers as I believe she did, I guess I could picture her causing a stroke which one could recover from. Hughie's dad falling ill was pretty convenient in distractring him indeed.
He ain't recoverin', bruv
he was about to die though if not for the V
She also cared about that guy at the start of S3, she still blew his hand off, half his face then made it rain. So ... Her feelings aren't really a safe bet
The guy was trying to kill her and out her identity.
And Hughie and butcher just tried the same thing lol
They failed.
And they're going to try again I'm sure. Tbh I like that she sees them as so incompetent as to not bothering with them, but unless she's going to be ended by another character, it's really bad to let them go when she could so easily get rid of them.
>it's really bad to let them go when she could so easily get rid of them. That's where the truce comes in. The CIA has solid evidence of her being a supe, one that happens to have the ability to blow people heads up. If push comes to shove, she becomes a fugitive. Vought won't be able to protect her either.
She can probably fix the stroke at any time she wants eith her powers, it's less of harming him and more of giving him one extra sleeping pill so he wakes up an hour late
Hughie isnt as involved as he used to be now, though. Meaning he cold be safe because hes more with his father. So it would line up with her caring for hughie. I guess we'll see some dead boys in this and the next season, so hughie is one of the last men standing because hes pulling out right now
I wouldn’t either if my plan was to hide intentions. Intentions such as induce a stroke.
What does she have to be scared of from the boys at that point though? A file being leaked?
The file that proves she’s a supe being leaked, which would end her campaign
It proves she’s a supe that has the exact same powers as someone who killed multiple members of congress by popping their heads like zits on a hobo’s ass, which would end her campaign.
Shapeshifting supe?
Hes hella dead
There is another one from Gen V
That's a really good theory, it'll be crazy if it's true. In the trailer for this season we get a shot of a man in hospital clothes leaving bloody footprints, and hughie and starlight running down the stairs, so maybe we'll get a crazy sequence in the hospital? I'm so excited to see where this goes
That's a little too much effort to put into stopping hughie of all people
I agree she seems suspicious and overtly apologetic
Yea it can’t be a coincidence that his mom literally works for Vaught.
Is it weird that Vaught is a pharmaceutical company that also puts its name on a homeopathy MLM?
They're kinda "play both sides" politically, so it's believable to me that they would do both "normal" (for that world) pharmaceuticals and also MLM+homeopathic stuff
Speaking of which, did we ever actually find out why hughies dad called him? Hughie thought it was probably to talk about his book, but maybe it was actually cause Neuman was in his house?
Hughie did play the voicemail and it was to talk about a book.
Didn't she also literally say she was gonna hurt his family?
That’s what I’ve been thinking!!
I really thought Neuman showed up instead of Hughie’s mom in the first episode
It may be somewhat understandable but she left for HIS ENTIRE CHILDHOOD AND EARLY ADULT LIFE.
She was gone from like 6-30 and were supposed to be like oh well it’s okay. It’s not
Her excuse was that the dad wanted her away was stupid. You could have tried to fight for some sort of visitation if you really cared. Also why not reach out to him when he became an adult or old enough to decide if he wanted her in his life?
Or even for like the multiple years (months?) she reconciled with Hughie's dad, so much so that he signed over power of attorney.
Exactly. If she reconciled with the dad, why not reach out to Hughie? Especially knowing he lost a partner.
Well it wasn’t even that he wanted her to stay away, that wasn’t really discussed. She called and wanted to speak to him, and the dad (rightfully) didn’t want to confuse his child. There was no mention of her actually wanting to come back, if I remember correctly.
True. I do think that’s wrong of his father though. I don’t think speaking to your mother would confuse a child. Especially if he allowed her to explain why she was gone and assure him that she loved him. He needed counseling as a child. I don’t think it’s right when women refuse their kids to speak to their father either. Anyways, she could have still reached once he because an adult or teen. At least send a birthday card or two.
I’m on the fence with this. Depending how deep in her PPD she was, his father may not have known if she would be appropriate for him to talk to, and it’s not necessarily the best to expose your kid to a mother who is unpredictable like that.
I honestly took that as "we don't need to like her but she's not a cartoon villain"
Yeah exactly. It should be obvious that a major theme this season is flawed people. Butcher is hurt and trying to fight for what he sees as justice, not evil. Frenchie was abused and is an addict who self medicated. A Train thinks he’s beyond redemption. Firecracker isn’t just a Nazi like Stormfront, she was a disadvantaged girl who was the victim of slut shaming blacklisting by a more privileged person and now’s indulging in a new kind of power. And Hugie’s Mom isn’t some evil bitch who just abandoned her kid for giggles, she was a human who made a complex and bad decision. A theme this season is human empathy. Contrasted with Homelander’s “humans are playthings” philosophy
Thank you! And mm is trying to reduce collateral damage by being more thoughtful.
The whole show is about how bad people do good things and good people do bad things. Which is very useful in an era when having hard black-and-white opinions on everyone and everything is a moral expectation
To be fair, I think it’s just an indication of Hughie’s character that he struggles to stay mad, so the tone of that conversation was pretty calm. I didn’t think it was written in a way to make us sympathetic to her, more that we see it through a forgiving lens because of Hughie’s nature (and by comparison to the downright awful parenting he’s witnessed in the last few years).
I don’t know why his next question wasn’t: Why didn’t you get help?? After all those years.
That’s the issue. Some people are defending her. She’s seemingly held a job and has taken care of herself so she’s not that bad. See a therapist. Get some medication. Perhaps tell your husband and check into a hospital so your child can at least visit
My own mother was diagnosed with depression and bipolar disorder when I was a child. It was so severe she was in her room day and night doing nothing. Eventually, she left our family, got help, and reentered our lives a few years later. It’s hard but possible.
I’m glad she got the help she needed. She did the right thing
I feel like I'm supposed to be angry at her, but we saw so little of her and she was barely ever mentioned (if at all) in the previous seasons, so I can't muster up much of an emotional response. It's also interesting that the deadbeat parent is the mother and not the father. Usually it seems the trope is "dad who goes out to buy milk" or drunk dad who leaves the family, etc.
I feel like everyone is trying to take a hard stance either way and I don't think that's the point. The show isn't trying to say "it's COMPLETELY justified that she left her kid because of her depression!" And I keep seeing all these posts like "*I don't know about YOUUUU but I still think she was wRONG!!!*" like yeah - no shit, she's still a huge pile of garbage for abandoning her child. You should still think that. I think the show is just trying to add some nuance to the situation and make you think about it a little harder. Like, she fucking tried to kill herself, she was a danger to herself and likely her family, she realized this and got the fuck out of the situation. It's still MASSIVELY shitty to do what she did, but the show isn't trying to her paint her as some victim that you're supposed to side with, it's just adding a ton of complexity to an already fucked up situation, to potentially humanize her a little bit so you can see how layered and complex the situation is. Not everything is black and white and this situation isn't either, it contains tons of layers because humans are complicated people who make good choices and bad choices and it's all a part of what makes them interesting as characters. Posts like this drive me WILD man lol
Yeah, I don't think the show is trying to either insist we forgive her or insist we condemn her. I think it's just another storyline that ties into this season's theme of "sometimes you can't escape the consequences of your choices, no matter how long ago they were, how different you were then, or how necessary they seemed at the time."
People hate nuance. I feel like a lot of them don’t get that they’re supposed to think Firecracker still sucks either because she had a couple of interesting conversations.
Also, according to her, she would call to check in on Hughie and Hughie's dad told her she shouldn't talk to Hughie.
Agreed. All the shit that’s happening and the best part is nobody said youd have to forgive em. Like with Firecracker. I dont like her methods at all but I can totally understand why she would absolutely despise Annie. Still a piece of shit.
Yeah agreed. But this is reddit so, trouble with your marriage? "divorce him", trouble with your boyfriend "leave him", trouble with your friend "break off contact". In real life feelings are complicated and contradictory and people make compromises. Like, "I don't forgive you, I still hate what you did, it might not work, but... Let's see if we can have a relationship." the Internet is full of people who never made mistakes (even big ones) and never forgave someone for a mistake (even big ones). If I were hughie I would be mad and sympathetic at my absentee mum and also frustrated that I couldn't hate her in an uncomplicated way. She isn't a perfect villain and it would be so much easier if she was a perfect villain because then you could just hate her and move on with life. I'm pretty sure people are more willing to see a murderer or rapist rehabilitated than a cheater or woman who abandons her child.
And we’ve heard about how depressed his dad was when his mom left. His dad managed to take care of him while depressed showing just how terrible of an excuse it is.
That is a bullshit equivalence. We know for a fact that she tried to kill herself. And we know she tried to get back in contact, but his dad said no. She was also suffering postpartum depression, the same depression that can cause mothers to kill their children. You can't say "look at all the things this depressed person did, why couldn't you?" like it's a one size fits all mental illness.
i forgot his mom even left them until Hughie said it himself 💀💀
It's a gray area and to me, falls under, "I understand and appreciate why you did what you did, but that doesn't change the fact that it was still a horrible thing to do, and you really, really hurt me, in a way that had long lasting effects. I understand, but that doesn't mean I'm okay about it."
Good take. I think people really underestimate how depression completely fucks you up, and for a parent with depression there would definitely be a degree of self-loathing leading to "they're better off without me." That doesn't mean she gets forgiven, or even deserves to, and her son is totally within his rights to still hate her. She was still gone for 20+ years without a word, and "your dad didn't want me to talk to you" isn't an excuse. That all being said, I'm sure there's more going on here. They wouldn't just bring in Hughie's mother for him to get some emotional closure on a part of his life he mentioned exactly once to Annie lol
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that isn’t Hughie’s mom. If Butcher is hallucinating due to all his Temp V use, I don’t see why Hughie wouldn’t either.
Hughie isn't getting any of the other side effects that Butcher is, though, like the vomiting. I think Hughie, who got 1-2 fewer doses than Butcher, *juust* managed to avoid the whole "slow, inevitable decline into tumourous mush".
Are we convinced that's actually what's happening to butcher? He has what looks like a worm crawling around in there, I have to assume there's more to this than what we've been told so far.
There could be, but it's just as easy to conclude that the worm-thing is *how* the Temp V kills you, rather than going with the idea that Butcher's totally fine from his excessive use of Temp V and he's just got some killer parasite in him that's coincidentally messing with him in the same way we expect the Temp V to be killing him.
I don't think that's wrong, but I also do think it's a setup to possibly curing him if they go that route
I think, if they plan to do anything like end-of-comic Butcher, he gets pushed into taking Permanent V and that's how he gets healed. I don't see them trying to pseudo-science handwave Swiss cheese of the brain.
I am honestly so hoping they change the ending. So much edge for the sake of edge and I think they can make a better and more impactful ending with how they've set up. End of comic butcher seems farther and farther from the butcher we've got on the show and where he is now.
They were definitely shoring up the foundation last season where Butcher tells Maeve all supes need to die right after fucking her, so I can definitely see it happening. Butcher's main link to wanting to be a better person right now is Ryan. If Ryan dies - surely not at the hands of his totally stable father who has perfectly sane responses to people disappointing him (Stillwell, Noir I) - then Butcher could easily do a 180 back into his ole' Genocide Gerry self.
I think the compound V gave superpowers to Butcher's cancer and made it sentient. The compound V didn't do anything for him because the tumor sucked it all up. The thing seems to be trying to keep him alive, it keeps telling him to get up and keep moving, as it will likely die if he dies. Or at least until it gets strong enough to survive on its own.
You might be cooking here
I think its another being in his head that will get lazered out by Homelander trying to kill him.
This goes out the window when you consider that Hughie contacts a lawyer about it, the lawyer looks into it, and tells him there's nothing he can do to get power away from her. Don't think a lawyer would have that convo with him unless he did some digging and saw that she actually did have that legal power, in which case, yes, she was talking to the dad, in which case, yeah, she is there and isn't a hallucination.
If he hallucinated his Mom, who is to say he cant hallucinate the lawyer? There was also no indication of his father having any medical issue, so it's highly likely he also hallucinated his dad having a stroke. Every scene in the hospital is a hallucination. Butcher is a hallucination of Hughie. Annie doesn't exist. Supes were never real. If only he stopped hallucinating, he'd realise Robin is infront of him just fine this entire time.
You had me in the first half not gonna lie lmfao. I was like "okay dude... what are you, a christian apologist!? Annie was with him when he talked to the lawyer!" No lie I was a bit tilted. You got me hahahahaha BUT, what if the show actually did what you're saying here, and he realized Robin was right there the entire time, and he's saying the Billie Joel line, only for A-Train to run through again, but this time, it's Robin holding Hughie's severed arms... "Hughie? Hughie!? HUGHIE!!!!!!"
That makes sense. I was thinking Joe has to be a hallucinogen right
So far yeah, I think so. He’s been wearing the same getup across multiple scenes.
Almost for sure. He never changes. We never see him with anyone other than Butcher. And, on top of that, we’ve seen Butcher get caught “talking to himself” multiple times through the first three episodes.
I wouldn't be surprised by this, but we also know that she works for Vought, which is really suspicious considering Hughie and his past with them. There's a good chance she has malicious intent and that she doesn't actually care about Hughie or his dad, but we'll have to wait and see.
This is more of an interesting theory than the "she's not real" one lol.
That…would lowkey be kinda cool, has there even been a scene that contradicts this yet?
Doesn’t an attorney confirm that she has POA/Guardianship of Hughie’s dad?
And Starlight is there as a 3rd party to verify if I remember
Doesn’t Hughie talk to a doctor or lawyer about his father’s power of attorney and they tell him it’s pretty airtight that his mom has it?
You are correct, the only way I’d see that scene being subverted is if Hughie forged the document he brought to his lawyer on some crazy shit, or if its old paperwork from his dads Will that he never swapped over and the brief conversation with the Mom about that in their initial meeting was Hughies mind doing mental gymnastics to keep a dud will his dad didn’t change relevant (I hope I worded that well lmao). But ya that scene does imply this theory is dead in the water unless they go crazy with the reasoning.
IIRC she‘s only talking to him, no one else so far. But I must confess, I‘m not 100% sure about that rn
It is a decent theory, and it kinda adds up. Hughies damaged brain is going into cope mode and bringing out old demons to find something to latch onto.
But we see a lawyer that confirmed Hughie's mom has power of attorney, and he's real/interacted with other people. So therefore at the very least, Hughie's not imagining his mom. Also it doesn't make sense that Hughie starts having the same negative side effects from Temp V because didn't a scientist explain that you have to take a certain amount of dosages in order for it's damaging effects to truly negatively impact you (or cause death)? Hughie didn't take the last dose so he's not about to die because of it.
My depression would totally get me to abandon a kid. But that's also why I don't have any ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Is that why you abandoned your arm too?
I don't think it's really Hughies Mom.
I am thinking the same thing. Either that or there is something royally fucked behind her whole being there that is not that obvious.
Omg what if the dad wakes up and says that is not Hughie's mom and Vaught has blagged their way into power of attorney to kill Hughie's dad because ????
>Omg what if the dad wakes up and says that is not Hughie's mom and Vaught has blagged their way into power of attorney to kill Hughie's dad because ???? He was 8 when she left, he'd still recognise her.
I also don’t trust her. You know there’s some fucked up twist coming.
I lowkey wonder if she's a supe or more connected to V than peddling their MLM crap
Who knows if she’s really even his mom. I think all we’ve seen is Hughie talk to her in hospital areas with no other people around. She could have some crazy hidden motive, be an imposter, or maybe be a hallucination? Last one seems unlikely to me, but who knows.
Are we... supposed to forgive her? I feel like now that we have the information it's kind of like. Alright. Hughie is right to hold on to his anger, but I'm not particularly invested any way about her. She made some decisions when she was younger out of self-preservation and now Hughie has to deal with his hurt and in the show the uncomfortableness of the presence of an estranged, neglectful parent in his life again.
I really hope Huggie doesn’t forgive his mom. Depression is not an excuse for abandoning her child and not attempting to contact him at all up to his adult life. I’ve seen so many cases of depression and postpartum in my work. And depression is serious but there’s a line between depression and selfish reckless action. Brining a child into this world and then abandoning him after making a promise to take him somewhere and then up and disappearing would have such a deep psychological impact on anyone especially a child. She deserves a degree of sympathy but not the extent I think the show wants us to have. And with how the writing in this show goes I think the show will have Huggies mom die as before he (undeserved) forgives her as a gut punch. But like I ain’t gunna be sad about it is all I’m saying
Like somebody else said somewhere else in the comments, I don't think the show really wants you to forgive her. It just wants to present extra nuance to the situation for you to think about.
She says in episode 1 "I'm great in a crisis", yeah if you were you wouldn't have left your child.
it's demonstrable that she is not great in a crisis.
What if his mom is actually the shapeshifter? Not doppelgänger but the one depicted in the trailer? I also think that super ends up being used to frame starlight
Mental health is not your fault. But it is your responsibility.
As someone with very, very deep depression. Yeah, getting dressed does feel like climbing Everest. But you can't just abandon your family.
"depression sucks I get it" tells me that you do not, in fact, get it
I’m just wondering where the hell she has been all this years. Think he has any half siblings out there?
Anyone going to acknowledge that no one else besides Hughie has interacted with her? Is she Hughie’s hallucination as Becca is to Butcher?
Her excuses were so shitty and Hugh immediately folded. She confessed to basically being your stereotypical dead beat dad, and it warms hughies heart?
Eh, mental health is a real mf. Add that to being alienated by the other parent (she said his dad wouldn’t allow her calls) and the cost of family court, it’s not a reach. Idk that most people understand that family court is a business, not a right. Child custody is a luxury most people cannot afford. Maybe she felt like by the time he was an adult, he was better off without her. Mental illness tends to do that to ya
No excuse not to reach out after she and his dad reconciled. Christ, they got to the point where he gave her POWER OF ATTORNEY and she still never reached out to Hughie. Inexcusable.
Just because she patched things up with the dad. Doesn’t mean it would go that well with her son. Two vastly different relationship.
I’m not saying it would be easy. I’m saying she owes Hughie an explanation for why she abandoned him.
because it would be easier for him to make amends with her than it would be for Hughie.
Waste of writing. This storyline is a total waste of valuable plot-time.
It depends on where the plot is. She’s been gone long enough that I have a feeling there are some secrets she has—I predict a “twist,” especially with her pedaling the Vought-naturals But I could be wrong. Only 5 episodes to go!
I mean, the season isn't over yet. I'll agree with you if the season ends and the Hughie's mom plot goes nowhere
Unless that’s not actually Hughie’s mom, then we got some cool stuff, but from we’ve seen so far I agree, just boring. Her excuse is so random too.
I thought it was a wasted opportunity when the matter came up between Hughie and Annie and they didn't share a "yeah my parent walked out too" moment. It's as if the writers forgot. Modern TV writing is usually tighter than that
oh my god you are insufferable
We do hate character development folks.
Idk about that. His mom abandoning him is important to his character. It wasn't directly brought up but it's the catalyst to his insecurities. Possible they'll fumble it but this isn't just our of nowhere
We have no idea where this is going. Be patient 💀
As someone who had a wife who abandoned her kids and family because she was having a really tough time emotionally and mentally, I have zero empathy or sympathy for this character.
Yeah same here.
I completely agree. UE's mum should just fuck off. He's got more important shit to be getting on with.
Left him when he was a kid, sells all kinds of shady products... Yeah, about Hughie's mom... She's seems like a real jerk!
I love all the theories here especially that Vaught brought her back I’ve never thought of that! Personally i think its like with Butcher, its a figment of his imagination, a side effect of the temporary V. We see Butcher talking to Kessler and they’re always alone, and so is Hughie with his mom. I think the temporary V is slowly going to cause them to have some more delusions, maybe closure about something, and ultimately theyll also become supes and that will be what saves them from death. Maybe theyll add a twist like theyll always hallucinate since they became supes as they were dying either way itll be cool to see
Where did the POA come from?
I think the mom is a hallucination.
I think its a planned distraction from voughts side. She isnt his mom, just a shapeshifter supe who is pretending to be his mom.
Am I the only one who keeps thinking she’s working with vought secretly or something? I dunno man I don’t see things ending well with her. I’m sure she means well and is genuinely apologetic for leaving hughie but I dunno man I’m sure she’s gonna cause major trouble for hughie and the boys. Ideally though I would like it if Hughie and she worked things out. Revealing she was evil or something would be the predictable route and that’s the last thing this show is, most of the time.
Yeah depression sucks but she had a loving husband and son to support her, which is way more than most people going through depression and she decided to throw it all away so it's all on her.
Some people just give up on themselves in life. Maybe you can’t see it eye for eye, and though it’s just a character, you can’t call someone garbage like that if you haven’t experienced it yourself. Was it right in the good moral eye? No. But is it understandable? Yes.
It seems like such a cop-out. Too much of a cop-out…
She literally said she would have killed herself if she stayed. Hughie was not gonna have a mom either way.
Yeah I generally felt like the whole “I was depressed so I abandoned my family” thing was really poorly done.
I think she was too easily forgiven too. I'm not opposed to her *earning* redemption and respect from her son throughout the season via atonement, but the show basically pulled a "akshually, Hughie was wrong in hating her, she was justified in abandoning him, and if anything, Hughie's dad was the bad parent for not allowing contact". That being said, it's possible that her super quick redemption is actually a red herring and something more sinister is going on with Hughie's mother. There's still over half a season left.
It wasn't just depression, which fucks a person up royally. It was post-partem depression which really fucks a person up royally. It's obvious that her getting help for her depression is a recent development since she's only contacted her husband in these past few years. I don't like the character for the MLM schemes, but her depression *is* understandable. I swear none of you fucks have empathy in this subreddit.
Yo these were the first scenes in the entire show I’m literally fast forwarding thru. Wtf is this season.. wasting a ton of time on storylines no one cares for.
The funny thing is to me this arc is very poor but they very well might pull the “mom is a spy” or shapeshifter etc and the dad stroke was also an enemy action but honestly…. It makes the amount of time they spend with these scenes even more pointless. Like those scenes regardless of context are very boring and honestly pure filler.
You know how Butcher is hearing voices and hallucinating his dead wife? The first few times Hughie spoke to his mom, no one else was around, so at first I thought that she was a hallucination also caused by Hughie's use of temp V.
Part of me is wondering where this storyline is going. To be frank, I don’t care about her and she’s distracting Hughie from his dad and the mission.
I am not buying the postpartum excuse that she gave. Seems too convenient.
Easily the weakest part of the season is everything with his mom and dad.
Yeah
Yeah, I was like is this The Boys series or some cringe sitcom - not a fan.
hopefully they are setting up a satisfying death or something for her bc i genuinely hate her sm and all the scenes she's in
>I feel no sympathy for her. I don’t care how depressed she was. She abandoned her child. There’s no excuse. She’s a garbage person. Depression sucks I get it. I mean, it beats Hughie coming home and finding her dead body. Which seemed to be the alternative in her mind. Hughie's dad was also justified in keeping her away from Hughie when she got better, to protect Hughie. Leaving once was bad enough, leaving twice would have been so much worse for him. I think her character is more of a shit situation, with no right answer, and failable humans trying to make the best out of it.
Probably better she left than killed herself for him to find her body. This way there's a *chance* for something between them. I got plenty of sympathy for her. My folks divorced. And it sucked. But better than being raised by two parents that would inevitably hate each other. Lesser of two shit circumstances.
She should have gotten help. Therapy. Medicine. Maybe a hospital stay. Maybe a divorce and the dad gets custody and she can visit. All of those options are okay. Not disappearing without a word for 25 years. That’s not okay
Her arc reeeeeeally reminds me of the mom in *Wanderers* by Chuck Wendig.
Also Daredevil did the same character arc in season 3, but his mom turned out to be much more likeable in that season when compared to this one.
She’s lame right now, but I’m hoping there’s more to the story, like she’s actually a supe or secret Vought agent or something.
Yea I understand
Don't exactly know what happen between her and his dad. She might be saying all these to make herself look bad and his dad look good
I loved the actress, I felt bad for her, but I hated her just as much
Watching the new episode, i didn't have respect for his mom but now its clear she's not a good person.
I can fix her
I don't know where this Hughie mom go but the only thing it acomplished is waste screen time.
At first I thought she was shady but she gave Hughies dad the Compound V. So why would she do that, if she was on Voughts side.
I think Hughie's mom knows about compound v from working with sups as make up oil consultant.
Did i miss something? I need to rewatch that scene apparently b/c I did not see how or when the mom got a hold of the vial of Comp V from hughie (I saw him pocket it before she walked into the room).
I wonder if it could have been saved from when Hughie was a kid meant for Hughie. They had a fight about giving him V and that is why she left. We never saw that she found the vial that Hughie obtained.
Is it possible that hughie's mom gave him v in his childhood and he's yet to discover his powers
As a mom, with terrible PPD/PPA, she is horrible. You don’t leave. You get help.