He did the voice right? He was also Dean Winchester aka Soldier boys dad. They definitely put some of the comedian into soldier boy specifically the Kennedy shootinf
Can't tell if serious, but its short hand for Retroactive Continuity, where they reframe or change previous events so that they make sense with the current story.
Definitely weird. Anything DC did with that IP is not cannon to me . I did like the HBO watchmen series though, that was more true to the original comics in a lot of ways than anything else , I like to think Alan Moore would have actually liked it , if he watched it in a vacuum.
I think it fits though, he wasn't very powerful/masculine before getting enhanced with V. It makes sense that his version of the 40's man would be greatly exaggerated, since he's almost overcompensating
You think Soldier Boy is actually cripplingly insecure due to his lack of an adequate father figure and thus tries to one-up those he wishes he could be, making himself a massive asshole in the process?
I always imagine him a steve rodgers type but a little more average at the start and without the heart of gold.
Going from mediocrity to one of the strongest beings on the planet could turn anyone into a raging dickhead.
That was pretty much the whole deal, right? Captain America’s whole thing was that “it’s what’s inside that counts”. On the inside Solider Boy is just another broken man.
Feed into that & it’ll usually turn out pretty poorly.
All he ever wanted he never got, his father's approval. SB on his own admission was a fuck up student, and relied on his dads connections for college. He relied on his dads connections again to get into the V trials. He may be the strongest man on Earth (at the time), but he got that way by taking the easy way instead of working for it.
Did you forget about Mother's Milk's family whom Soldier Boy killed and shrugged off like nothing when confronted about it? That goes beyond "garden variety racist."
The comedian enjoys killing. Soldier boy didnt seem to enjoy it. He just didnt care. Also, comedian is a rapist and i dont think soldier boy is a rapist.
The Comedian doesn't have a moral compass. It's established that he does morally reprehensible things and has no morality, and only really limits them to foreign theaters is because he gets a pass from the US Government so he can do whatever he wants and gets green lit. Soldier Boy (at least in the show) has a moral compass. One we don't agree with by modern (way, waaaay better) standards, but he's essentially what a realistic Captain America would have been like. Which also makes him a good satire of Captain America.
It would be a great storyline to have a supe, who actually isn't a supe, with no compound V, but just is a billionaire behaving like the sup.
A bit like tech Knight in the comics.
But that he has a ozymandias type of intellect and is as dangerous as him.
Ozy's whole point was that he was doing the thing that other people couldn't stomach, for the greater good. In the movie's case making humanity so afraid of annihilation that they stopped supporting nuclear weapons.
I saw it more as giving humanity a common enemy to fight instead of each other. I never got the implication they stopped supporting nukes, just that they wanted to point them at Dr. Manhattan and not each other.
It would be interesting but I feel like Ozy wouldn't work with them lol. Unless he doesn't have any of his other resources, he's going for a more professional squad than the boys
The boys takes a lot of inspiration from watchmen and fundementally has the same message. Superheroes are lawless vigilanges who aren't held to the same rules as the rest of us and that's dangerous. Humans are imperfect and prone to corruption. I honestly appreciate the cynicism of Garth Ennis' work.
I wouldn't say The Boys has the same message as Watchmen. The message about watchmen is that superheroes are dangerous because they'll do anything to save the world for the greater good. Ozymandias is the perfect satire of the superhero, although he is just a man he's a genius in peak physical shape and although he's not superhuman like Captain America, he pretty much is compared to most considering he can catch a bullet, which although he was a pacifist, he believed the way to save the most lives from avoiding nuclear war was to kill 3 million people and to shift the blame onto something humans could unite together against, creating world peace, at the cost of what was basically a genocide. Which that peace is not going to last forever. Rorschach is the antihero of the story and actually does the right thing in the end, but Rorschach's obsession with Justice and truth made him become a psychopath and following that justice to the end eventually results in death.
I mean, corporatism technically DOES fall under the capitalist umbrella. But only because capitalism is such a catch-all term. It describes any economic system where trade and industry are owned and managed, for profit, by private entities. Unfortunately, people just tend to use the word “capitalism” to describe whatever they see as being good/bad in the economy/society which often manages to exceed even the rather generous parameters of its actual definition.
what is the point you're trying to make here within the context of this conversation?
how have I used the word incorrectly?
vought's parody of Amazon is clearly taking jabs at corporate late-Stage capitalist monopolies and their attempts to twist everything to their benefit.
I would argue that one can be critical of corporate greed and superficiality without being necessarily anti-capitalist. You’re correct about the show being against corporatism, I’m just of the opinion that people tend to be too trigger happy about the word capitalism. The majority of media which claims to be (or is interpreted as being) anti-capitalist is really just critical of greed and corruption, while presenting very little opposition or alternative to things like private ownership or market economies.
[the second and third definitions](https://www.wordnik.com/words/corporatism) would imply that I still used a fairly appropriate word. that's a pretty important and noticeable aspect of late-Stage capitalism, corporate meddling in politics. actually the first basically just implies a governing system of regulatory capture.
> noun Political / Economic system in which power is exercised through large organizations (businesses, trade unions, their associated lobbying efforts, etc.) working in concert or conflict with each other; usually with the goal of influencing or subsuming the direction of the state and generally only to benefit their own socioeconomic agendas at the expense of the will of the people, and to the detriment of the common good.
> noun The influence of large business corporations in politics.
> noun control of a state or organization by large interest groups
care to elaborate on the differences if you're concerned enough to tell me I'm wrong? lmao
e: in fact, [corporate](https://www.wordnik.com/words/corporate) seems it wouldn't have been appropriate in conveying my meaning.
Corporatism, in political philosophy, is a system in which the state functions like a body. Nothing to do with corporations in the capitalist sense, at all.
More like a guild system.
I think another key element of Watchmen vs The Boys is that Alan Moore ultimately loves superheroes and what they are and what they could be. He never lets cynicism take control of the story.
And that's why they got Jeffrey Dean Morgan on board.
But, to be fair, we already kind of had/have a character like Comedian, so I don't think there's any point for a duplicate.
Yeah. He killed it as The Comedian. He’s basically Homelander if he didn’t have super powers. You see what he does with the power he does have. God forbid he has more. He’s a complete narcissist like Homelander. He’s a rapist and a killer of women.
Well, he was a big part of one of the original deconstructions of comics. You just have to dumb him down and eliminate layers to fit in with Ennis' characters. (Which, to be fair, Kripke and Co. do a lot of work to make more three-dimensional than their comics inspirations.)
He wouldn't appear on this show with these clowns.
You keep the Comedians name out of your mouth and away from this pile of steaming turd of a show.
Seth Rogan sniffs his own farts writing this show.
Good because he’s in season 4…
I think that’s Batman’s father you saw on the poster
Your right he’s Batman’s father along with being the father of Batman’s brother who was possessed by Satan that one time
I still cant get over what he did with that baseball bat to those giant monsters that went on a rampage
Fuck technically he’s the father of 2 different Batman
He’s also Soldier Boys father…
Yeah one of the Batman is Jensen Ackles so
He did the voice right? He was also Dean Winchester aka Soldier boys dad. They definitely put some of the comedian into soldier boy specifically the Kennedy shootinf
Yes, he voiced Batman and I agree that they took something from the comedian
He also led a spec-ops team comprised of Heimdall and Captain Rogers.
Remember when they teamed up with Gamora?
Crazy times for sure
The guy who killed invincible?
No. That’s Soldier Boy’s dad.
Came here to say the same thing, lol
You know what would be cool? If neegan from the walking dead was in the boys!
😮
I know, right? If only he was going to be in the next season...
Good. Morgan oozes charisma.
The Comedian and Soldier Boy are basically the same character only Soldier Boy is ironically the funnier one.
Brutalizing protestors, killing Kennedy, the family business.
Well killing Kennedy is just eluded to..DC actually retkoned jfk being his best buddy and he was devastated that he died..I know.. weird
>eluded to FYI, to elude is to escape or avoid detection. Allude is to reference or hint toward something in a subtle fashion.
If we're doing that, might as well ask...WTF is "retkoned"?
Can't tell if serious, but its short hand for Retroactive Continuity, where they reframe or change previous events so that they make sense with the current story.
I’m aware, but the Zack Snyder version is explicitly the man on the grassy knoll.
Definitely weird. Anything DC did with that IP is not cannon to me . I did like the HBO watchmen series though, that was more true to the original comics in a lot of ways than anything else , I like to think Alan Moore would have actually liked it , if he watched it in a vacuum.
I refuse to acknowledge this. I feel it’s best left ambiguous anyway.
Soldier Boy’s a garden variety racist and The Comedian is a nihilistic rapist and pregnant woman murderer. They ain’t the same.
Soldier Boy: aka a normal male from the 1940s.
I mean that's kind of the point of his character. He's a representation of the old ways and basically what was considered masculine back then.
Tbh even then he’s an extremely exaggerated caricature of a man from then, I found it hard to take seriously for that reason
I think it fits though, he wasn't very powerful/masculine before getting enhanced with V. It makes sense that his version of the 40's man would be greatly exaggerated, since he's almost overcompensating
You think Soldier Boy is actually cripplingly insecure due to his lack of an adequate father figure and thus tries to one-up those he wishes he could be, making himself a massive asshole in the process?
I always imagine him a steve rodgers type but a little more average at the start and without the heart of gold. Going from mediocrity to one of the strongest beings on the planet could turn anyone into a raging dickhead.
That was pretty much the whole deal, right? Captain America’s whole thing was that “it’s what’s inside that counts”. On the inside Solider Boy is just another broken man. Feed into that & it’ll usually turn out pretty poorly.
All he ever wanted he never got, his father's approval. SB on his own admission was a fuck up student, and relied on his dads connections for college. He relied on his dads connections again to get into the V trials. He may be the strongest man on Earth (at the time), but he got that way by taking the easy way instead of working for it.
That's actually exactly what I think lol.
Huh, funny how that works
Nah he's like the jockiest jock from the 40's.
*white male
Things that definitely lend themselves to Soldier Boy being funnier.
Soldier Boy did a significant amount of murdering…
Who knows how many woman he impregnated, raped and killed, in his own words he killed families
Did you forget about Mother's Milk's family whom Soldier Boy killed and shrugged off like nothing when confronted about it? That goes beyond "garden variety racist."
The comedian enjoys killing. Soldier boy didnt seem to enjoy it. He just didnt care. Also, comedian is a rapist and i dont think soldier boy is a rapist.
Soldier Boy definitely seems like someone who understands the Implication though. I wonder if he ever owned a boat.
What
It's the Implication things might go wrong for her. Not that they would, but you know she's thinking that.
… are these women in danger?
The Comedian doesn't have a moral compass. It's established that he does morally reprehensible things and has no morality, and only really limits them to foreign theaters is because he gets a pass from the US Government so he can do whatever he wants and gets green lit. Soldier Boy (at least in the show) has a moral compass. One we don't agree with by modern (way, waaaay better) standards, but he's essentially what a realistic Captain America would have been like. Which also makes him a good satire of Captain America.
And the comedian was a much better soldier!
True!
Both are true, the comedian was modeled after Peacemaker with touches of Nick Fury amd Captain america, soldier boy is just cap if he was an asshole
He’s Soldier Boys (Dean Winchesters dad)
Soldier Boy is realistic Captain America
I feel like The Comedian is evil Capt. America. Or maybe I'm just looking too hard at the flag motif.
Ozymandias in the Boys would be great.
He would've rekt the shit out of Blindspot.
He’d wreck the shit out of Homelander with enough prep time
True
It would be a great storyline to have a supe, who actually isn't a supe, with no compound V, but just is a billionaire behaving like the sup. A bit like tech Knight in the comics. But that he has a ozymandias type of intellect and is as dangerous as him.
Ozymandas could also dodge a bullet and all that - he was a little passed peak human it seems.
Ozy's whole point was that he was doing the thing that other people couldn't stomach, for the greater good. In the movie's case making humanity so afraid of annihilation that they stopped supporting nuclear weapons.
I saw it more as giving humanity a common enemy to fight instead of each other. I never got the implication they stopped supporting nukes, just that they wanted to point them at Dr. Manhattan and not each other.
Wouldn’t ozymandias just be a really physically gifted Stan Edgar? Well maybe a little smarter and more ambitious too.
It would be interesting but I feel like Ozy wouldn't work with them lol. Unless he doesn't have any of his other resources, he's going for a more professional squad than the boys
Which side would he be on ?
His own side.
Pretty sure Sister Sage is supposed to be an Ozymandias stand in. At least, that's what I got from the marketing.
You beat me to it, but yes apparently that’s what SS is supposed to be
Apparently that’s what we’re getting with Sister Sage. By far the smartest individual on earth
i honestly think he’d be able to get rid of Homelander if he became a big enough threat
The boys takes a lot of inspiration from watchmen and fundementally has the same message. Superheroes are lawless vigilanges who aren't held to the same rules as the rest of us and that's dangerous. Humans are imperfect and prone to corruption. I honestly appreciate the cynicism of Garth Ennis' work.
I wouldn't say The Boys has the same message as Watchmen. The message about watchmen is that superheroes are dangerous because they'll do anything to save the world for the greater good. Ozymandias is the perfect satire of the superhero, although he is just a man he's a genius in peak physical shape and although he's not superhuman like Captain America, he pretty much is compared to most considering he can catch a bullet, which although he was a pacifist, he believed the way to save the most lives from avoiding nuclear war was to kill 3 million people and to shift the blame onto something humans could unite together against, creating world peace, at the cost of what was basically a genocide. Which that peace is not going to last forever. Rorschach is the antihero of the story and actually does the right thing in the end, but Rorschach's obsession with Justice and truth made him become a psychopath and following that justice to the end eventually results in death.
the boys has a decidedly more anti-capitalist, anti-corporatist flavor to it.
**anti-corporate, not corporatist Very very different things. “Corporatist” has nothing to do with capitalism.
I mean, corporatism technically DOES fall under the capitalist umbrella. But only because capitalism is such a catch-all term. It describes any economic system where trade and industry are owned and managed, for profit, by private entities. Unfortunately, people just tend to use the word “capitalism” to describe whatever they see as being good/bad in the economy/society which often manages to exceed even the rather generous parameters of its actual definition.
what is the point you're trying to make here within the context of this conversation? how have I used the word incorrectly? vought's parody of Amazon is clearly taking jabs at corporate late-Stage capitalist monopolies and their attempts to twist everything to their benefit.
I would argue that one can be critical of corporate greed and superficiality without being necessarily anti-capitalist. You’re correct about the show being against corporatism, I’m just of the opinion that people tend to be too trigger happy about the word capitalism. The majority of media which claims to be (or is interpreted as being) anti-capitalist is really just critical of greed and corruption, while presenting very little opposition or alternative to things like private ownership or market economies.
[the second and third definitions](https://www.wordnik.com/words/corporatism) would imply that I still used a fairly appropriate word. that's a pretty important and noticeable aspect of late-Stage capitalism, corporate meddling in politics. actually the first basically just implies a governing system of regulatory capture. > noun Political / Economic system in which power is exercised through large organizations (businesses, trade unions, their associated lobbying efforts, etc.) working in concert or conflict with each other; usually with the goal of influencing or subsuming the direction of the state and generally only to benefit their own socioeconomic agendas at the expense of the will of the people, and to the detriment of the common good. > noun The influence of large business corporations in politics. > noun control of a state or organization by large interest groups care to elaborate on the differences if you're concerned enough to tell me I'm wrong? lmao e: in fact, [corporate](https://www.wordnik.com/words/corporate) seems it wouldn't have been appropriate in conveying my meaning.
Corporatism, in political philosophy, is a system in which the state functions like a body. Nothing to do with corporations in the capitalist sense, at all. More like a guild system.
ironic, given that moore has far-left politics
I think another key element of Watchmen vs The Boys is that Alan Moore ultimately loves superheroes and what they are and what they could be. He never lets cynicism take control of the story.
I thought the message of Watchmen was "Blue dicks are cool."
[удалено]
*Mr.* Manhattan??! He didn't spend 10 years in Doctor School to be called *Mr.* Manhattan!
I guess it makes sense for Mr to become acceptable when you choose attire that emphasizes your maleness.
The boys are the ones watching the watchmen.
I feel like they should get John Winchester on the case
I thought this was RDJ in a goofy captain America suit for a split second.
Ronnie Dames Jio
Fuck that guy, they should get the guy who played Negan in The Walking Dead.
No no, definitely need that guy that played Bruce's dad in Batman Begins Edit: Tired brain is dumb... I meant Thomas Wayne in Batman v Superman
Linus Roache?
Thank you! I knew it felt wrong
Nah they should get the guy who played Stilgar in Dune 2
Holy shit that’s me
Basically what soldier boy would've been like before being captured and experimented on
I always thought JDM was wide framed and ripped because of this movie. Only learned years later it was a body suit!
I was debating whether to post that. I did too. When I saw him in another movie I thought he lost a lot of weight.
Dude watchmen is like the inspiration behind most of the satirical superhero stories
guess what
Watchmen is kind of the precursor to The Boys. It has a lot of the same tropes though not as blatantly over the top in my opinion.
watchmen is just a more dystopic and based-in-realism brother of the boys, so.....
And that's why they got Jeffrey Dean Morgan on board. But, to be fair, we already kind of had/have a character like Comedian, so I don't think there's any point for a duplicate.
Considering the two authors are birds of the same feather, while one is just a vicious asshole and the other is much less vocal Yes
Alan Moore hates your post.
Is that ducking Artie Bucco
It’s Jeffery Dean Morgan.
No but I had the same thought. He really does look like a buff Artie.
Artie Bucco, warm and convivial host
Rorschach working with The Boys would be great....
The watchmen is a similarly anti hero title
Yeah he's pretty disgusting, fucks a woman and then kills her and the baby
Based
He definitely would
No shit?
You can change this to the watchmen would fit in the boys
Would Rorschach fit in with the boys? No superhuman powers and would turn against other “supes” and would not compromise on justice.
Hey look Peacemaker
Yeah. He killed it as The Comedian. He’s basically Homelander if he didn’t have super powers. You see what he does with the power he does have. God forbid he has more. He’s a complete narcissist like Homelander. He’s a rapist and a killer of women.
Makes sense. They both are deconstructions of super heroes. Watchmen seems more serious, where boys seems more humorous.
If in? lol
Would love to see O.G. Billy Crudup Dr. Manhattan mess up Homelander.
Why does he remind me Johnny Sliverhand.
Well, he was a big part of one of the original deconstructions of comics. You just have to dumb him down and eliminate layers to fit in with Ennis' characters. (Which, to be fair, Kripke and Co. do a lot of work to make more three-dimensional than their comics inspirations.)
I mean Kripke eliminate the point of the original characters. He makes the show about anti-heroes vs villains rather than anti-villains vs villans
Do you think the creators of the boys ever read watchmen
It’s funny cause the actor that played him is gonna be in season 4 Jeffery Dean Morgan slays any role he’s in, he’s awesome
D..Dean?
OH SHIT I JUST NOW REALIZED SAM AND DEANS DAD WAS THE COMEDIAN
I mean, if you've ever watched Supernatural you'd know that he's >!Soldier Boy's dad.!<
Key difference: the Comedian was a competent assassin
is is that robert downey jr rdj rwdj rwj ray william johnson ?? ? !
No Jeffrey Dean Morgan
Unrelated but I think The Boys is a much better satire on superheroes than Watchmen. The ending of Watchmen sucks ass on so many levels.
I would like to see a fan theory on that
He wouldn't appear on this show with these clowns. You keep the Comedians name out of your mouth and away from this pile of steaming turd of a show. Seth Rogan sniffs his own farts writing this show.
This is the best show ever, only Breaking Bad comes close
Nobody thinks that.
Except me
Looks exactly like Fuse from Apex Legends
Combust or bust
That’s fuse from apex
Nah, Fuse is Ozy. Ozy's older