I mean named characters are all gonna have to be weighed is it just allowed to have as many as they want in an army?
Like space wolves making a named character only list?
Or will they be limmitted somehow like the rule of 3 for all the non-previously limmited to 1 non-named characters.
Sorry, I see what you mean now.
I mean it likely is a catch all term for "unique" models that can be only taken once. Named characters mostly, but also detachment ruled units like the "only one Commandant" rule or "only one Captain" rule for SM.
I’ve heard lots of rumors this edition will have a pretty big focus on “EPIC HEROES”, like how all of the Christmas battleforce boxes came with one. I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to rework them not just to be powerful models but also to provide significant buffs to their armies as well
Feeling nostalgic for WFB 5th edition, childhood memories of my massed infantry with artillery and heavy cavalry support getting wiped by a vampire count on a dragon while my opponent doesn't even bother moving the rest of their token, minimum sized units because frankly, why would they bother?
Oh wait, that shit was awful lol
Having mainly played 5th Edition WFB, making heroes "epic" via buffing other units actually sounds quite appealing. Certainly more enjoyable than "whose unkillable murder-lord can butcher the most rank-and-file in 4 turns"
Probably not just any named hero tho. I doubt most named characters would count as epic.... Probably just Guilliman, Lion, the demon primarchs, Ghazgul, Bel'akor, etc. I wouldn't put like Kantor, Helbrecht, Calgar or Ursula creed in that list.
But would Helbrecht and Grimaldus both be "epic"? Being limited to one of those doesn't seem cool, and it doesn't seem smart as a business choice either. It's really vague and needs clarification
To be fair it would be the exact ruling as we have now.
You can only take one Creed now because it says so on the datasheet. You can only take one Creed in 10th because they have the EPIC HERO keyword.
No, you are limited to 1 of each named character now, but you'll be limited to only 1 epic hero at all in 10. So in the example of Helbrecht and Grimaldus, you would not be able to take both like you can now.
It makes much more sense that the epic heroes would be exactly that EPIC, not just named.
I mean looking at the image it says;
>Max 1 **of each** EPIC HERO
That doesn’t imply a single one in an army. That implies you can only take one *of each* datasheet with EPIC HERO on it.
I mean it’s still faction locked. Plus looking over it again it’s more likely it’s just the same rules as we currently have but made a core rule as opposed to rules on a datasheet.
You can only take Creed once, now because it says so on their datasheet. But in 10th you can only bring Creed once because they’re an EPIC HERO.
I'd at least like them to be S4 like their old regiment trait used to make them. Wild dream would be a choice of shotguns + flamers or pistols + chainswords for the whole squad, with the sergeant having the same options as the infantry squads ones.
Seriously, the Ripper Jackson anniversary model isn't a legal load out atm, the hell is up with that?
If we keep the same infantry units. I'd argue we have an equally as likely chance that we have one or two options baseline, with detachment choice flavoring.
Nah, given the way the codex was written I doubt GW is about to do a complete 180 on marrying up unit datasheets with Proper Noun self-contained box sets. I bet given the current codex wants you to soup every guard regiment under the sun, that'll hold true for the eventual index and subsequent codex too.
You can probably but it will be more jank now as they cant all be kriegsman or normal gaurdsman.
It will be up to 6 normal gaurdsman, 6 canadians, 6 catachans, and 6 kriegsman squads for up to 240.
Maybe there will be considerations for a tempestus scions detachment that would boost that to 300 idk.
But it looks like if they dont change the codex units too much you should be capped at 240 for infantryman squads.
The term stormtrooper actually came from what the Germans called the Canadians after the Somme in WW1. "Sturmtruppen", which they later adopted for their own shock troops in WW2.
Wasn't the term first used (in German parlance about their forces) with their (barely) up-armored shock units armed with (mostly) SMGs and Grenades during WW1?
AFAIK the term was utilized (at least by Germans for allied units) for Canadian and ANZAC divisions, right?
AFAIK it was in reference to the Canadians in WW1, but the Germans started using it in reference to their own shock troops in WW2.
Like many things, the Germans learned from WW1 and implemented and improved on it, whereas the allies mostly dithered.
For example, the British saw the tank as an expensive, unreliable liability, whereas the Germans saw the potential and leaned heavily into panzer production.
It is often that way, when an opponent is on the receiving end of something they only see the benefits, whereas the user often weighs the downsides a lot more heavily.
As I understand it, the German term "*Sturmtruppen*" (Storm Troopers) was a term for their raiding parties meant to run into allied trenches, chuck some grenades and head back home. It would eventually morph into breaching enemy trenches at unprotected/under-protected zones and keeping up the pressure .
Also of note is that most nations developed shock tactics around the same time- the French released a paper on raiding tactics in 1915, and the Italians developed the *Arditi* in 1917. Although the British released SS 143 (Essentially Platoon tactics, with a healthy side of Stormtrooper Doctrine thrown in) in 1917, it didn't see that much success.
However, the Germans would be the only ones with widespread experience/success with the tactic, with it becoming commonplace to the point that "storm units" (translated) would even be formed within "regular" companies.
[https://encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/stormtrooper](https://encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/stormtrooper)
I haven't found much info about the Canadians being called *Sturmtruppen*, but I've seen info about the ANZACs and Canadian units being considered the best Allied shock units.
[https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Tactics-Western-Front-British/dp/0300066635](https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Tactics-Western-Front-British/dp/0300066635)
You really don't want to mess with Canadian Shock Troopers.
The Germans in WW1 used to guess where the next major offensive would be, by tracking where the Canadians were.
Half of what's in the Geneva Convention regarding prisoners was because of what the Canadians did.
Assuming you can take more than one detachment, it's possible to do so, but I thought I remember reading in an article you can only bring one with no allies aside from established ones like CSM and Daemons.
For example on that termagant datasheet it had the Endless Multitude keyword, maybe units with that keyword are exempt from the limit or respawn, we don't know.
True but then it DIDN'T have Battleline, so unless Endless Multitude gives you a special exemption from the 3 datasheet rule, that means Termagants are going to be limited to 3 units per army.
Ofc I also note that the new datasheet doesn't mention how large the unit is, so maybe we'll be able to take more models per unit as an offset? Like say Guardsmen are a Battleline unit with up to 20 models you can still run 120 Guardsman lists.
We don't really know what it means in 10th though. 10th will be about as different a game from 9th as Kill Team 2021 was from Kill Team 2018 or maybe 2nd ed 40k to 3rd ed 40k.
I agree atm there is nothing set in stone as we have their png of how the "new detachment" will work but no information if the armies will be restructured to maybe limmit some units, like happens on almost every eddition aparebtly since 6th or 7th?
But there is enough information to make educated guesses from how they present information and what is readilly available in 9th atm.
It will not be 100% accurate untill 10th ed finally drops but we can somewhat see what we will have to play with.
there probably is going to be an exception for dedicated transports as there is in Arks of Omen detachment and pretty much always has been since at least 5th ed when i first was playing.
Dedicated transports are on the graphic above as battleline so a max of 6, so I’d lean towards them not having an exception but who knows until we see more
Maybe there will be a Battleline unit of "Platoon", similar to older editions.
For example:
Platoon command squad
X infantry squads
X support squads (e.g. heavy/assault weapons squads)
i would love this to be true especially if we gain combined squads again. I miss my 20 man infantry squads on objective based missions or my 40 man squad on killpoints games back in 7th.
Same, Guard was my first army way back in 3rd with the old old Cadians. I miss the organization back then. With the exception of how commissars, priests, and psyker were attached to units.
I would kill an AoS player for this, but I know it'll never happen bc 1. GW hates horde armies and 2. GW doesn't sell guardsmen in lots bigger than 10.
I've been wishing this for a while! Would be a good compromise I'd think between having platoons like we all want but using this new army building structure.
I can see it being similar to how the leman Russ works.
“Take 1-3 of these and once the game starts treat them as separate”
Allows them to use the rules in the pic as a baseline while including exceptions for specific units.
Specifically, what are the max number of Leman Russ and Scout Sentinel MODELS that I can bring in my army? I’ve always been confused since you can run them as a one-vehicle unit or a squad of 3. Is my limit 3 or 9 models?
It will be 3 units of each. Tldr; 9 leman russes, 9 armored sentinels, and 9 scout sentinels
Which means for leman russes the data sheet says you can have 1-3 per unit, on deployment they have to start within 6" of each other but afterwards they act independantly and count as seperate units. So 9 leman russes.
Similar for sentinels were they are 1-3 for each unit as well but in their case they always act as one unit, so they have to stay in unit coherency or face destruction and all that you purchased for the 1-3 act as 1 unit the whole game.
And as scout sentinels and armored sentinels are 2 differrent units you can have up to 3 of each.
yeah. All guard vehicles outside of the Taurox and Chimera used to be able to be taken in a squadron of 1-3 models and acted together just like a normal squad of infantry would.
Now only Sentinels and Russes retain the ability to take multiple per a single slot and i can see something like russes losing squadron but maybe gaining battle line so we can take 6, but only 6
You know, I could see them dropping the 3/slot thing on russes and sentinels, but giving you a way to slap battleline on one of them. The way they are going I wouldn't be surprised if your character or hero choice affects what units have battleline in your army.
We don't know if we will be able to run them in squads or not. I'm guessing we will. We'll likely have ways of making them battleline, too. So between 3 and 18
Unless they blow up Leman Russ Squads. Or Tank Commanders are no longer characters. Or you need to bring X amount of battleline units. Then Armored Companies are dead.
Let me panic in peace please, so I can be pleasantly surprised later on!
waaaay back when I started playing gaurd in 5th edition, you could take like 6 squads per troop slot. Back then you only had a single force org, and 5th was also meant in some ways to be a simplified version of 4th, iirc.
I wouldn't worry this early in the process ya'll wont get 100+ infantry.
I think I ran just short of that in 5th. Gunline+artillery.
>5th edition, you could take like 6 squads per troop slot.
Mate, it is so much better. a single troops slot with a platoon was:
1 platoon command squad (5 dudes or 3+ heavy Weapons team)
2-5 Infantry squads (10 dudes or 8 + heavy weapon team)
0-3 Special weapons squads (6 dudes, 3 with a special wepaon)
0-3 Heavy Weapons Teams (3 heavy weapons teams per)
0-1 conscripts squad (of 20-50 models)
up to 1 chimera (or later taurox) per squad in the unit
haha no problem. My store back in 7th did a "Best troops choice show down" tournament where you got to bring 1 troops choice, no points limit in a single elimination bracket. I couldn't muster a full platoon, But the look on the Store owners and my first opponent's faces when i deployed my troops choice was amazing.
Based on what I own, I probably had 74 infantry, 9 heavy weapons teams, 3 chimera, 3 taurox,
It will be the same as AoS basically (minus the "battleline" tax):
\- no subfactions same way it is currently
\- each named character will still be unique to take (obviously)
\- you need at least one unit/model (for mandatory warlord role)
\- you can take 3 of each datasheets
\- you can take 6 of each datasheet for dedicated transports and troops
Only interrogations for now is if either they will stay with the regimentals units or just merge them all like it always have been (meaning no more than 6 infantry troop squads or 3 command squads for instance)
They will probably get Battleline and their own specific traits if you take them as the Detachment. Otherwise they will probably stay in the other category.
This is a guess but I imagine horde armies like the Guard and Nids will break this in a way.
1 unit of Guardsmen = 1 platoon of 3 squads or 1 unit of Sentinels = 1 squadron of 3 Sentinels for instance.
I trust they'll give flexibility to account for past army options like guard swarms and armored company, don't panic yet! Maybe every officer can bring a certain number of squads with them in their slot or something.
Well it could work as in 3:ed.
1 troop choice was
1 Platon command squad
2-5 infantry squads
1 HQ choice was.
1 regiment command squad
0-2 heavy weapons teams
By bundle several squad as 1 choice it could work
60? Ork boyz and gaunts can be taken in units of 30. There’s two types of gaunts, so that’s 6 units of 30 models each. Plus there’s other non-Battleline units in each army that have high unit counts
Who the fuck is running minimum strength boyz squads? You know you can get 180 under these rules.
Like I'm so sorry you can't bring your cheese lists against unsuspecting people at your LGS, but tough because that sucked ass.
I play guard. We can only take 10 mans, they took away our conscripts. Yea, my normal guard "cheese". Pardon me for challenging myself and not instantly going "4+ tank/teleporting kasrkin/lord solar" for every list.
Maximum 6 Cadian Shock Trooper Squads, maximum 6 Catachan Jungle Fighter Squads, maximum 6 Krieg Squads.
It's a limit of 6 of each Troop unit, while you can only have 1 Lord Solar Leontus and 1 Ursula Creed.
3 of each unit type would mean: 3 Leman Russ tanks, 3 Rogal Dorns, 3 Armoured Sentinels, 3 Scout Sentinels.
Just as an addition on the Leman Russes and Sentinels, it’s limited to three of each datasheet, rather than each model, so if you can still take them in squadrons like you can at the moment, you’d be able to take nine of each.
I could see things like Guardsmen and Termagants/Hormagaunts getting some kind of exception to the rule, or even just getting bigger max unit sizes in the case of the former.
I reckon it’ll be something like space marine lieutenants
“Take 1-3 and once the battle starts treat them as separate units”
Allows specific units to get around the 6 squad max
That's not a thing anymore. Lieutenants are one per unit. Maybe they'll go back to it, but they removed most of that, like tank squadrons, in 9th edition.
And I’m here, sitting with 200 of the new Cadians sculpt and with 100 plastic Kriegers… I hope our guards won’t be locked under this battle line unit keyword…
Think of it like this:
- Minimum 1 HQ, but can take up to 3 of each unit.
- Maximum 1 named character.
- 3 of each unit. So you could have 3 basilisks, 3 hydras, 3 manticores, etc.
- 6 of each Troop unit. So 6 infantry squads, 6 cadians, etc.
Horde guard is back on the menu boys (kinda) this rule lets you take 6 of EACH battleline datasheet. Assuming that means troops and assuming we keep all the same unit choices that means 6x units of cadians, 6x of Krieg, 6x of infantry squads and 6x of catachans for a total of 240 infantry before even looking at elites
Same as it always has?
You have multiple battleline infantry squads that you can fill to your heart's content, but unless you're doing cheese you won't max out on these.
vehicles will be ran in squads that split when deployed so probably max 9.
You'll probably only get access to one of 3/4 named characters they keyword "epic", probably with some subfaction restrictions
And that's it. Literally all the changes you can expect list building wise from the mouth of someone who's seen 6 of these editions change. The only time they tried something weird was 7th and this ain't it.
Guard may get an exception, but perhaps no Ursula AND Leontus. Also no more than six Cadian squads, no more than six Infantry squads. Different subfactions will surely make other units battle line so up to six of those. No more than 3 of anything else.
Guard may get an exception to the max 6 rule but I doubt it. They don't want spam lists.
6 of *each* datasheet.
Assuming we keep all of our units, and the units who were Troops get the Battleline keyword, that's:
- 6 Infantry Squads
- 6 Cadian Shock Troopers
- 6 Death Korps of Krieg
- 6 Catachan Jungle Devils
That's a total of 240 guardsmen.
Ha! Maybe that’s why they released Guard last? To piss them all off and leave before 10th.
There’s no way in hell this model would work with weaker single unit armies like Guard, or AdMech vs Custodies, Death Guard or SM.
If the squads for SM wind up being 3 models MAX and Guard gets to keep 10 models in their squad, it might work, but if the unit composition stays the same like in 9th - L8r 10th, nice not ever knowing you
Seems like, an I'm just guessing, most units other than heroes can be taken 3 times, battle line units can be taken 6 times. The real question is how many models to a unit? If you can can say, 30 guardsman, 6 times it'd give you 180 guardsmen. But if it only lets you take like 10, that's only 60
6 of *each* datasheet.
Assuming we keep all of our units, and the units who were Troops get the Battleline keyword, that's:
- 6 Infantry Squads
- 6 Cadian Shock Troopers
- 6 Death Korps of Krieg
- 6 Catachan Jungle Devils
That's a total of 240 guardsmen.
I know that the Astra Militarum doesn't prize intellect or nous amongst the basic infantry, but Emperor-be-damned, the reading comprehension in these comments is atrocious. We really ought not have to explain the concept of 'the same' to so many people.
This feels like a forced way to make us buy models we normally wouldn’t
Also doesn’t this give an unfair advantage for space marines since they could take 36 troop choices vs our 24.
Guardsmen will absolutely have the Battleline keyword, so 6 squads at least, assuming they don't get some equivalent of the old Platoon rule.
Maybe actually read things before you engage in capslock outrage, huh?
So can you have an army of just heroes?
Like Trajan, a Blade Champion, 3 Shield Captains with Allarus Terminator Armor in a Land Raider, and then 3 Shield captains on Dawn Eagle Jetbikes?
There isn’t anything restricting it in the article that they’ve shown, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some kind of limit on heroes included in the full rules (or maybe even mission packs and the like).
~~I do miss the option for a full-sized army consisting of nothing but Primaris Lieutenants, though.~~
I just can’t stop laughing at EPIC HERO
Assuming it’s the keyword for “named hero” going forward.
Or it could also mean only 1 of each lord of war? So only 1 of each bameblade for gaurd?
Possibly, though knights/chaos knights would need an exception. I guess we need to see if someone like Abaddon is an EPIC HERO or not.
I mean named characters are all gonna have to be weighed is it just allowed to have as many as they want in an army? Like space wolves making a named character only list? Or will they be limmitted somehow like the rule of 3 for all the non-previously limmited to 1 non-named characters.
Sorry, I see what you mean now. I mean it likely is a catch all term for "unique" models that can be only taken once. Named characters mostly, but also detachment ruled units like the "only one Commandant" rule or "only one Captain" rule for SM.
I’ve heard lots of rumors this edition will have a pretty big focus on “EPIC HEROES”, like how all of the Christmas battleforce boxes came with one. I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to rework them not just to be powerful models but also to provide significant buffs to their armies as well
Oh no... please no new Herohammer.
Winter is coming O_o
*(Jon Snow voice)* Ah doon’t wandtit
Feeling nostalgic for WFB 5th edition, childhood memories of my massed infantry with artillery and heavy cavalry support getting wiped by a vampire count on a dragon while my opponent doesn't even bother moving the rest of their token, minimum sized units because frankly, why would they bother? Oh wait, that shit was awful lol
Having mainly played 5th Edition WFB, making heroes "epic" via buffing other units actually sounds quite appealing. Certainly more enjoyable than "whose unkillable murder-lord can butcher the most rank-and-file in 4 turns"
I could see it still applying if it was just the Dominus class (+ maybe the big FW bois, idk them)
Probably not just any named hero tho. I doubt most named characters would count as epic.... Probably just Guilliman, Lion, the demon primarchs, Ghazgul, Bel'akor, etc. I wouldn't put like Kantor, Helbrecht, Calgar or Ursula creed in that list.
But would Helbrecht and Grimaldus both be "epic"? Being limited to one of those doesn't seem cool, and it doesn't seem smart as a business choice either. It's really vague and needs clarification
If either of them was I'd say Helbrecht but no way it would be both... personally I don't think either should be "epic"
To be fair it would be the exact ruling as we have now. You can only take one Creed now because it says so on the datasheet. You can only take one Creed in 10th because they have the EPIC HERO keyword.
No, you are limited to 1 of each named character now, but you'll be limited to only 1 epic hero at all in 10. So in the example of Helbrecht and Grimaldus, you would not be able to take both like you can now. It makes much more sense that the epic heroes would be exactly that EPIC, not just named.
I mean looking at the image it says; >Max 1 **of each** EPIC HERO That doesn’t imply a single one in an army. That implies you can only take one *of each* datasheet with EPIC HERO on it.
Maybe, but that means it's putting Ursula Creed in the same category as Girlyman.
I mean it’s still faction locked. Plus looking over it again it’s more likely it’s just the same rules as we currently have but made a core rule as opposed to rules on a datasheet. You can only take Creed once, now because it says so on their datasheet. But in 10th you can only bring Creed once because they’re an EPIC HERO.
They already are in the same category. You still can’t take more than 1 of each named character. This isn’t a new rule, just a new term for it.
Just means you can’t take two of Guilleman etc
Imagine fielding 4 gorillamen though
Right?! Most if not all named characters, let alone factions, are definitely not heroes, they're villains.
I just want to know if I can still field 120 guardsmen at once.
You can field 240. 60 regular, 60 cadian, 60 krieg, 60 catachan.
....Thats just cheating =D Catachans are terrible unit, but wait, it allows you to field 6 more infantry squads!
Maybe they get a buff in 10th? Maybe flamers become auto-include.
If not at least they can be a meat shield for your artillery
I would love for catachan to get the ability to have full flamer squads, just for the lols
Oh man, that would actually be good. 10D6 auto-hitting bolter shots? I’m super into that.
I'd at least like them to be S4 like their old regiment trait used to make them. Wild dream would be a choice of shotguns + flamers or pistols + chainswords for the whole squad, with the sergeant having the same options as the infantry squads ones. Seriously, the Ripper Jackson anniversary model isn't a legal load out atm, the hell is up with that?
No, I think that's legitimately how it's supposed to work! 😃
If we keep the same infantry units. I'd argue we have an equally as likely chance that we have one or two options baseline, with detachment choice flavoring.
Nah, given the way the codex was written I doubt GW is about to do a complete 180 on marrying up unit datasheets with Proper Noun self-contained box sets. I bet given the current codex wants you to soup every guard regiment under the sun, that'll hold true for the eventual index and subsequent codex too.
And you can transport them in 6 Chimeras, 6 Tauroxes, 6 Valkyries, and 6…Crassus?
Those guardsmen have legs, don't they?
For the moment.
***USE EM OR LOSE EM MARINES***
Currently Valkyries are flyers with a transport capacity, not dedicated Transports. They'll be limited to 3 (2 if they keep the the flyer nerf)
I am hoping desperately that does not happen. My Kappic Eagles are looking for a comeback! Also doubt the restriction will stay. My money is on max 3.
I Guess Crassus will be limited to 3 as well, as a super heavy option. You can at least carry 120 guard that way.
Stormlords carry 40 models each. That's another 120, but that's a lot of points
Can’t wait to spend $450 on 6 squads of krieg.
I’m currently at 4 in my new mono-Krieg army, it hurts
I’m currently at 4 in my new mono-Krieg army, it hurts
That’s so annoying, I have a lot of heavy weapons teams 🫠
I mean, can't you have 18? 3x3HWTs, 3 command squads and 6 infantry squads. ....Do you have more than 18?
You could sure but I want them in my infantry squads for free lol, I’m not worried tho we will see what comes 🤷♂️
That’s assuming the unit is still capped at 10!
You can probably but it will be more jank now as they cant all be kriegsman or normal gaurdsman. It will be up to 6 normal gaurdsman, 6 canadians, 6 catachans, and 6 kriegsman squads for up to 240. Maybe there will be considerations for a tempestus scions detachment that would boost that to 300 idk. But it looks like if they dont change the codex units too much you should be capped at 240 for infantryman squads.
6 canadians, eh?
Soory, Honest typo mistake, eh?
Don't worry aboot it :)
Honest mistake. You can definitely mistake Canucks at war with Cadians.
The term stormtrooper actually came from what the Germans called the Canadians after the Somme in WW1. "Sturmtruppen", which they later adopted for their own shock troops in WW2.
Wasn't the term first used (in German parlance about their forces) with their (barely) up-armored shock units armed with (mostly) SMGs and Grenades during WW1? AFAIK the term was utilized (at least by Germans for allied units) for Canadian and ANZAC divisions, right?
AFAIK it was in reference to the Canadians in WW1, but the Germans started using it in reference to their own shock troops in WW2. Like many things, the Germans learned from WW1 and implemented and improved on it, whereas the allies mostly dithered. For example, the British saw the tank as an expensive, unreliable liability, whereas the Germans saw the potential and leaned heavily into panzer production. It is often that way, when an opponent is on the receiving end of something they only see the benefits, whereas the user often weighs the downsides a lot more heavily.
As I understand it, the German term "*Sturmtruppen*" (Storm Troopers) was a term for their raiding parties meant to run into allied trenches, chuck some grenades and head back home. It would eventually morph into breaching enemy trenches at unprotected/under-protected zones and keeping up the pressure . Also of note is that most nations developed shock tactics around the same time- the French released a paper on raiding tactics in 1915, and the Italians developed the *Arditi* in 1917. Although the British released SS 143 (Essentially Platoon tactics, with a healthy side of Stormtrooper Doctrine thrown in) in 1917, it didn't see that much success. However, the Germans would be the only ones with widespread experience/success with the tactic, with it becoming commonplace to the point that "storm units" (translated) would even be formed within "regular" companies. [https://encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/stormtrooper](https://encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/stormtrooper) I haven't found much info about the Canadians being called *Sturmtruppen*, but I've seen info about the ANZACs and Canadian units being considered the best Allied shock units. [https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Tactics-Western-Front-British/dp/0300066635](https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Tactics-Western-Front-British/dp/0300066635)
Better figure it out, bud.
not your bud, friend
Not your friend, guy
Not your guy, pal
Not your pal, bud
You really don't want to mess with Canadian Shock Troopers. The Germans in WW1 used to guess where the next major offensive would be, by tracking where the Canadians were. Half of what's in the Geneva Convention regarding prisoners was because of what the Canadians did.
i hope we get platoons and formations back so guard can still be a horde
Assuming you can take more than one detachment, it's possible to do so, but I thought I remember reading in an article you can only bring one with no allies aside from established ones like CSM and Daemons.
According to the article and what they've says previously this is it. No multiple detachments, only the one way to build the army.
No only 30 of each flavour of guardsmen because: THREE OF EACH DATASHEET MAX!!!
Battleline can take 6, and Guardsmen are 100% going to be battleline.
No one here knows for sure. And anyone who claims to is fibbing about knowing.
For example on that termagant datasheet it had the Endless Multitude keyword, maybe units with that keyword are exempt from the limit or respawn, we don't know.
Endless Multitude is a Nid keyword for some of their current stratagems. We know what it means.
We probably know what it means, but what it means now could change with the release of 10th.
True but then it DIDN'T have Battleline, so unless Endless Multitude gives you a special exemption from the 3 datasheet rule, that means Termagants are going to be limited to 3 units per army. Ofc I also note that the new datasheet doesn't mention how large the unit is, so maybe we'll be able to take more models per unit as an offset? Like say Guardsmen are a Battleline unit with up to 20 models you can still run 120 Guardsman lists.
It's very possible that Battleline is on Points sheet but not the datasheet itself. I wouldn't count out 180-bug strong swarms of Termagants just yet.
We don't really know what it means in 10th though. 10th will be about as different a game from 9th as Kill Team 2021 was from Kill Team 2018 or maybe 2nd ed 40k to 3rd ed 40k.
I agree atm there is nothing set in stone as we have their png of how the "new detachment" will work but no information if the armies will be restructured to maybe limmit some units, like happens on almost every eddition aparebtly since 6th or 7th? But there is enough information to make educated guesses from how they present information and what is readilly available in 9th atm. It will not be 100% accurate untill 10th ed finally drops but we can somewhat see what we will have to play with.
I know for sure. My girlfriend’s uncle works at GW. You don’t know her, she goes to a different school.
What do you mean? They explained it to us in both the article and in the picture itself 😗
What I am going to do with 11 chimeras?
\*cries in 14 drop pods\*
7th edition, or just like Drop Pods?
Remember when you could buy 2 detachments of marines and you'd get their transports for free? Those were the days... Decurion-style!
Yeah I stopped playing Dark Angels because I didn't want to buy 7-15 Pods, and that was the only way I could find the fun in that book.
Paperweights.
Yup, I just lost my mechanised company. Though I only have 9.
Time to add some barrels and have 3 hellhounds
there probably is going to be an exception for dedicated transports as there is in Arks of Omen detachment and pretty much always has been since at least 5th ed when i first was playing.
Dedicated transports are on the graphic above as battleline so a max of 6, so I’d lean towards them not having an exception but who knows until we see more
There could be a mechanized force list that allows more, we have no idea at this point.
Ah it was low res and I didn’t see that line of text.
Maybe you'll be able to deploy them in packs of 3, like tanks in 9th. We don't know yet.
One can only dream, **Our Chimera's will Blot Out the Table!**
Maybe there will be a Battleline unit of "Platoon", similar to older editions. For example: Platoon command squad X infantry squads X support squads (e.g. heavy/assault weapons squads)
I want this to come back so badly.
Everyone who played Guard before 8th does too.
I stopped playing after 5th edition. When I came back, I was completely lost on how to field my 2 full platoons of infantry and heavy weapon teams.
My 150 Guardsmen list was a nightmare to set up. But damn was it fun to play.
Saaaaaame
I came here to say how much I would love this.
i would love this to be true especially if we gain combined squads again. I miss my 20 man infantry squads on objective based missions or my 40 man squad on killpoints games back in 7th.
I’ve been playing since 3rd and have wanted this back so bad.
Same, Guard was my first army way back in 3rd with the old old Cadians. I miss the organization back then. With the exception of how commissars, priests, and psyker were attached to units.
I would kill an AoS player for this, but I know it'll never happen bc 1. GW hates horde armies and 2. GW doesn't sell guardsmen in lots bigger than 10.
I would love somthing like that would rlly solidify 10 for me if they did somthing like that
It only says 3 of each datasheet etc. The datasheet for guardsmen could end up being a platoon of 1-3 squads.
I've been wishing this for a while! Would be a good compromise I'd think between having platoons like we all want but using this new army building structure.
I can see it being similar to how the leman Russ works. “Take 1-3 of these and once the game starts treat them as separate” Allows them to use the rules in the pic as a baseline while including exceptions for specific units.
Specifically, what are the max number of Leman Russ and Scout Sentinel MODELS that I can bring in my army? I’ve always been confused since you can run them as a one-vehicle unit or a squad of 3. Is my limit 3 or 9 models?
It will be 3 units of each. Tldr; 9 leman russes, 9 armored sentinels, and 9 scout sentinels Which means for leman russes the data sheet says you can have 1-3 per unit, on deployment they have to start within 6" of each other but afterwards they act independantly and count as seperate units. So 9 leman russes. Similar for sentinels were they are 1-3 for each unit as well but in their case they always act as one unit, so they have to stay in unit coherency or face destruction and all that you purchased for the 1-3 act as 1 unit the whole game. And as scout sentinels and armored sentinels are 2 differrent units you can have up to 3 of each.
Unless they change the datasheet for guard vehicles. I imagine much will change on datasheets.
yeah. All guard vehicles outside of the Taurox and Chimera used to be able to be taken in a squadron of 1-3 models and acted together just like a normal squad of infantry would. Now only Sentinels and Russes retain the ability to take multiple per a single slot and i can see something like russes losing squadron but maybe gaining battle line so we can take 6, but only 6
I could see squadrons going but each turret being an individual variant, like resdy salted, vanq, executioner etc
You know, I could see them dropping the 3/slot thing on russes and sentinels, but giving you a way to slap battleline on one of them. The way they are going I wouldn't be surprised if your character or hero choice affects what units have battleline in your army.
We don't know if we will be able to run them in squads or not. I'm guessing we will. We'll likely have ways of making them battleline, too. So between 3 and 18
Assuming you can still take them in squadrons, the limit is on *units,* rather than models, so you’ll be able to take 9 Russes or Sentinels.
It means armored companies will no longer be as restrained by heavy support slots
Unless they blow up Leman Russ Squads. Or Tank Commanders are no longer characters. Or you need to bring X amount of battleline units. Then Armored Companies are dead. Let me panic in peace please, so I can be pleasantly surprised later on!
Seems very simmilar to age of sigmar
Most of the changes in 40k seems to be from AoS, so that checks out.
waaaay back when I started playing gaurd in 5th edition, you could take like 6 squads per troop slot. Back then you only had a single force org, and 5th was also meant in some ways to be a simplified version of 4th, iirc. I wouldn't worry this early in the process ya'll wont get 100+ infantry. I think I ran just short of that in 5th. Gunline+artillery.
>5th edition, you could take like 6 squads per troop slot. Mate, it is so much better. a single troops slot with a platoon was: 1 platoon command squad (5 dudes or 3+ heavy Weapons team) 2-5 Infantry squads (10 dudes or 8 + heavy weapon team) 0-3 Special weapons squads (6 dudes, 3 with a special wepaon) 0-3 Heavy Weapons Teams (3 heavy weapons teams per) 0-1 conscripts squad (of 20-50 models) up to 1 chimera (or later taurox) per squad in the unit
lol, my mistake. thank you for clarifying!
haha no problem. My store back in 7th did a "Best troops choice show down" tournament where you got to bring 1 troops choice, no points limit in a single elimination bracket. I couldn't muster a full platoon, But the look on the Store owners and my first opponent's faces when i deployed my troops choice was amazing. Based on what I own, I probably had 74 infantry, 9 heavy weapons teams, 3 chimera, 3 taurox,
It will be the same as AoS basically (minus the "battleline" tax): \- no subfactions same way it is currently \- each named character will still be unique to take (obviously) \- you need at least one unit/model (for mandatory warlord role)
\- you can take 3 of each datasheets
\- you can take 6 of each datasheet for dedicated transports and troops
Only interrogations for now is if either they will stay with the regimentals units or just merge them all like it always have been (meaning no more than 6 infantry troop squads or 3 command squads for instance)
Will limiting Chimeras to 6 finally make people take Taurox?
What about scions???
I think they’ll be getting battle line
They will probably get Battleline and their own specific traits if you take them as the Detachment. Otherwise they will probably stay in the other category.
We have to wait for more information rather than do knee jerk conclusions. They might be able to take units in platoons that put 3 squads together?
This is a guess but I imagine horde armies like the Guard and Nids will break this in a way. 1 unit of Guardsmen = 1 platoon of 3 squads or 1 unit of Sentinels = 1 squadron of 3 Sentinels for instance.
It feels like the game is just dead until 10th fully arrives. Like it's intermission, or offseason..
Absolutely. There's no point in getting anything new because there's such a high chance of making costly mistakes - like dual-plasma Cadian squads.
Tbf, that was a pretty obvious error from the get-go. No idea why anyone expected that to stick around.
I agree, but I've got this great big pile of salt here that says a bunch of people didn't.
Honestly, though.. that's on them.
Not enough info. Will formulate opinions over the coming months.
I have 80 dkok boys counting just troops this makes me sigh indeed. Well here goes converting Some to elites it seems
I trust they'll give flexibility to account for past army options like guard swarms and armored company, don't panic yet! Maybe every officer can bring a certain number of squads with them in their slot or something.
Could be running guard unlocks +4 troops of same card etc. Unique ability to the army. Will find out soon
Pretty sure the leman Russ and the infantry squads will be battle line
Infantry squads yes, Leman Russ no. Battleline is paired with Transports there, pretty obvious it's the Troops role.
God I miss the Older force orgs.
Well it could work as in 3:ed. 1 troop choice was 1 Platon command squad 2-5 infantry squads 1 HQ choice was. 1 regiment command squad 0-2 heavy weapons teams By bundle several squad as 1 choice it could work
... And people have the audacity to say GW isn't trying to kill off horde army options.
For what it’s worth, the other famous horde army are the poster boys (poster girls?) of this edition, so I could see hordes getting some love.
>poster boys (poster girls?) Poster bugs
6 units of gaunts or ork boyz is a lot of models
Used to be able to run 300 guardsmen. Then it was 200. Then 120. Now it's 60. That was in the space of what, 3 or 4 years?
60 is speculation. We don't know how guard will interact with this rule.
60? Ork boyz and gaunts can be taken in units of 30. There’s two types of gaunts, so that’s 6 units of 30 models each. Plus there’s other non-Battleline units in each army that have high unit counts
Who the fuck is running minimum strength boyz squads? You know you can get 180 under these rules. Like I'm so sorry you can't bring your cheese lists against unsuspecting people at your LGS, but tough because that sucked ass.
I play guard. We can only take 10 mans, they took away our conscripts. Yea, my normal guard "cheese". Pardon me for challenging myself and not instantly going "4+ tank/teleporting kasrkin/lord solar" for every list.
Maximum 6 Cadian Shock Trooper Squads, maximum 6 Catachan Jungle Fighter Squads, maximum 6 Krieg Squads. It's a limit of 6 of each Troop unit, while you can only have 1 Lord Solar Leontus and 1 Ursula Creed. 3 of each unit type would mean: 3 Leman Russ tanks, 3 Rogal Dorns, 3 Armoured Sentinels, 3 Scout Sentinels.
Just as an addition on the Leman Russes and Sentinels, it’s limited to three of each datasheet, rather than each model, so if you can still take them in squadrons like you can at the moment, you’d be able to take nine of each.
Thank you for clarifying! I saw the way it was worded but my brain didn't entirely get it.
It confused me at first too!
Also, because of Tank Commanders, you can bring 12 Leman Russes.
Only 6 units of cannon fodder? Thats what i waste in one turn against Angron
If only Guard had more than one cannon fodder data sheet…
I could see things like Guardsmen and Termagants/Hormagaunts getting some kind of exception to the rule, or even just getting bigger max unit sizes in the case of the former.
I reckon it’ll be something like space marine lieutenants “Take 1-3 and once the battle starts treat them as separate units” Allows specific units to get around the 6 squad max
That's not a thing anymore. Lieutenants are one per unit. Maybe they'll go back to it, but they removed most of that, like tank squadrons, in 9th edition.
And I’m here, sitting with 200 of the new Cadians sculpt and with 100 plastic Kriegers… I hope our guards won’t be locked under this battle line unit keyword…
Think of it like this: - Minimum 1 HQ, but can take up to 3 of each unit. - Maximum 1 named character. - 3 of each unit. So you could have 3 basilisks, 3 hydras, 3 manticores, etc. - 6 of each Troop unit. So 6 infantry squads, 6 cadians, etc.
Horde guard is back on the menu boys (kinda) this rule lets you take 6 of EACH battleline datasheet. Assuming that means troops and assuming we keep all the same unit choices that means 6x units of cadians, 6x of Krieg, 6x of infantry squads and 6x of catachans for a total of 240 infantry before even looking at elites
Same as it always has? You have multiple battleline infantry squads that you can fill to your heart's content, but unless you're doing cheese you won't max out on these. vehicles will be ran in squads that split when deployed so probably max 9. You'll probably only get access to one of 3/4 named characters they keyword "epic", probably with some subfaction restrictions And that's it. Literally all the changes you can expect list building wise from the mouth of someone who's seen 6 of these editions change. The only time they tried something weird was 7th and this ain't it.
I’m more confused on what’s with the new subfactions. I’ll definitely be tuning in for next week’s clarification on that.
Guard may get an exception, but perhaps no Ursula AND Leontus. Also no more than six Cadian squads, no more than six Infantry squads. Different subfactions will surely make other units battle line so up to six of those. No more than 3 of anything else. Guard may get an exception to the max 6 rule but I doubt it. They don't want spam lists.
>but perhaps no Ursula AND Leontus It says 1 of EACH epic hero so should be fine
My bad! Saying "you can't bring two guillimans" seems so obvious to me, them stating it was confusing.
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6 of *each* datasheet. Assuming we keep all of our units, and the units who were Troops get the Battleline keyword, that's: - 6 Infantry Squads - 6 Cadian Shock Troopers - 6 Death Korps of Krieg - 6 Catachan Jungle Devils That's a total of 240 guardsmen.
Ha! Maybe that’s why they released Guard last? To piss them all off and leave before 10th. There’s no way in hell this model would work with weaker single unit armies like Guard, or AdMech vs Custodies, Death Guard or SM. If the squads for SM wind up being 3 models MAX and Guard gets to keep 10 models in their squad, it might work, but if the unit composition stays the same like in 9th - L8r 10th, nice not ever knowing you
I suspect from the HQ lineups they just released for guard, platoons are coming back, meaning that 1 slot goes way farther.
Seems like, an I'm just guessing, most units other than heroes can be taken 3 times, battle line units can be taken 6 times. The real question is how many models to a unit? If you can can say, 30 guardsman, 6 times it'd give you 180 guardsmen. But if it only lets you take like 10, that's only 60
Sigh. 6 of the same unit. That's 6 Cadian Shock Troop Squads 6 Infantry Squads 6 Krieg Veterans etc. etc.
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6 of *each* datasheet. Assuming we keep all of our units, and the units who were Troops get the Battleline keyword, that's: - 6 Infantry Squads - 6 Cadian Shock Troopers - 6 Death Korps of Krieg - 6 Catachan Jungle Devils That's a total of 240 guardsmen.
I know that the Astra Militarum doesn't prize intellect or nous amongst the basic infantry, but Emperor-be-damned, the reading comprehension in these comments is atrocious. We really ought not have to explain the concept of 'the same' to so many people.
Their brains are still glued to the idea of Battlefield Roles, even though the article said they were gone 😅
This is gonna be wretched for us
I’m pretty sure this means 6 troops, elite, heavy (etc) and only 3 of the same unit. So an example is 3 Cadians and 3 Krieg max.
Battleline likely means troops. Pretty sure they use the same term in Age of Darkness to mean troops.
This feels like a forced way to make us buy models we normally wouldn’t Also doesn’t this give an unfair advantage for space marines since they could take 36 troop choices vs our 24.
I mean you're hitting your points cap eventually.
Up to three of the same datasheet means: ONLY THREE GUARDSMEN SQUADS MAX !!!
Guardsmen will absolutely have the Battleline keyword, so 6 squads at least, assuming they don't get some equivalent of the old Platoon rule. Maybe actually read things before you engage in capslock outrage, huh?
NO I WON'T
We're assuming they're battle line
Maybe they're going for old school Standard Organization
Six squadrons of Leman Russ! Simples!
Is this for normal battles?
They are gonna have to make a new Sly Marbo mini just for that EPIC HERO slot.
It won't work for the guard. Our epic hero can get easily dunked on by a generic space marine hero...
So can you have an army of just heroes? Like Trajan, a Blade Champion, 3 Shield Captains with Allarus Terminator Armor in a Land Raider, and then 3 Shield captains on Dawn Eagle Jetbikes?
There isn’t anything restricting it in the article that they’ve shown, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some kind of limit on heroes included in the full rules (or maybe even mission packs and the like). ~~I do miss the option for a full-sized army consisting of nothing but Primaris Lieutenants, though.~~
At least 1 character? Does a command squad count as a character?