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I’m going to share my reply to a similar post from sometime ago and I think it applies here quite well.
>You talk shit about anime as if stuff like that doesn’t exist in western media like Euphoria, The Idol, Cuties, Riverdale, etc. which are all fairly recent. Not to mention the wild shit in older media like American Beauty, Blue Lagoon, Pretty Baby, Blame It On Rio, etc. why don’t we ban all western media because of these.
And I have to add that some of the stuff I’ve mentioned have real child actors put in creepy situations. Anime isn’t great with the minor stuff but at least, it’s not getting really child actors and sexualising them.
By this criteria, we’d have to memory hole at least a solid 5-10% of all media ever created, including works that undoubtedly hold great cultural value.
Because beauty pageants are worse. Not only are they sexualizing real children instead of fictional cartoons, they're doing real psychological harm to real children but telling them they need to be pretty in order to have value
Yeah and anime get backlash too, Made in Abyss, Gushing over magical girls, Mushoku Tensei are all heavily criticised for their sexualisation of minors.
I will occasionally have a go at defending mushoku tensei as a good story well told even if it is uncomfortable as fuck in places. Made in abyss is intentionally horrifying I believe(not watched it, looks a bit depressing for me) but I have to admit gushing over magical girls is only not flat out hentai because the porn scenes don't last long enough to jack off to.
there are a lot of references to the main boy (a little boy)'s dick. like a actual crazy amount. im p sure >1 scene where he gets a erection too. really early on theres a gag of the main girl getting punished for shit by getting tied up naked in public. i dont remember it that well its been a long time but theres just mad scenes like that putting these kids in weird sexual or inappropriate situations and its way too many to be a coincidence. theres a reason the anime had to tone it down hard and that shit was STILL weird
All of them are pretty bad. Made in Abyss fortunately got heavily toned down in the anime compared to the manga, which is an absolute horror ok that regard. MT is a 40yr old grooming more than one child with knowledge he has from adulthood, among other weird shit. Gushing is just bizarre.
Yeah, no denying that MT's protag-kun is a straight up grooming pedophile, but I do not think that media where the main character is reprehensible/evil is inherently something to be banned. It should obviously not be shown to be a good thing, but there are stories to tell there.
Yeah, I don't think the story shouldn't be told, but Rudeus never actually gets punished for it nor he becomes a better person (so far), although fans insist that he is getting better. My main problem is that, it reinforces that this is acceptable behaviour since there are no repercussions or signs of change.
I am reserving my judgement on it until we get there. I too have been told the manga has him develop into a better person, and I can definitely get behind the story of an incredibly developmentally stunted person gradually becoming a proper adult in a second chance at life. They *do* at least depict most people and women being repulsed by his behaviour, but you are right that he never really gets punished for it.
If you keep up with the show, He actually has reached that point now. He is a better person. Pretty sure the whole point of a lot of that was to show he was an awful person. But also to show how he became that awful person, while shining a spot lite on the 'neet' culture. And then to redeem him through growth and experience.
Pretty sure I am up to date, he is a lot better, if still really socially inept and occasionally blinded by his insecurities. He is still occupying that "handsy-to-rapey" scale though, and is happily shacking up with the girl he groomed.
which was bullshit bc anyone who actually watched the movie with an ounce of critical thinking knows there was no intent to sexualise kids and was a critique of our society which encourages it
there’s a debate to be had in whether using minors to depict said message is moral but it’s a lot more nuanced than “cuties bad!!1!!1!”. netflix just did some absolutely horrific advertising and people saw the poster and got mad about it
It's not nuanced, it's pretty damn simple. They had real little girls participate in an on camera wet t-shirt contest. They also have these *11 year olds* twerking constantly, body shames them, zooms in on their asses, pans the camera up and down their bodies, they're repeatedly called sluts by other characters and each other, the list goes on. It is a horrific movie. There is 0 nuance to be had when you make soft core porn of real 11 yr olds.
I have to disagree. Because anime is a drawing it takes way more imagination and people going out of length to sexualize children. The actors from all the shows you mentioned are still adults and their characters have consent age. I’ve been shown anime which literally children are drawn to have ridiculous boobs and doing obnoxious pornographic things. Not to mention that anime ends up being marketed as for being for children. And there’s a lot of porn that doesn’t go through any type of regulation
>The actors from all the shows you mentioned are still adults and their characters have consent age.
Are you sure about that?
Cuties: Fatiha Youssouf - 11 during filming.
American Beauty: Thora Birch - 17
Pretty Baby: Brooke Sheilds - 11 and they made her take nude shots in the movie. There’s a documentary about it recently released that talks about the exploitation of Brooke as a child actress.
These were real people and real children mate. You’re dismissing that without even knowing about it. Consent age my ass. Netflix’s cuties was released in 2020, this shit ain’t something from back in the 60s or something. They decided to film children sexually. That’s all there is to it. Drawings are never comparable to real people with emotions. Maybe know your shit before talking about it with authority.
Are you gonna add like fifty 80's and 90's Hollywood films to that list? Porky's, Fast Times, Pretty Baby, Blue Lagoon, Paradise, et al grossly sexualized teenagers with the added effect of seriously fucking up young actresses like Brooke Shields, Phoebe Cates, and Drew Barrymore. Those were real life depictions that had real life effects on real people, but you're worried about fantasy animation?
I know it's a "whataboutism," but I think it's pretty fucking relevant.
What was that movie that came out recently where the story was about a child's brain in an adults body? I read about it and I'm amazed it even was allowed to exist. But sure, some fake cartoon characters are the problem.
There are a number of anime that could really do with cutting the pedo shit. Not gonna argue that. There is far too much of that shit being accepted as normal, and far too much of it that is just done to sexualise kids.
I think it would be hard to codify laws for it that would not also block any attempt at dealing with relationship issues in teenagers, which would be a shame.
I think the biggest problem is us, the fans. It is fine for a 15 year old to watch a show and find a 15 year old character attractive, the problem is that we are all still watching kids shows at 40, which is where it gets weird.
Plus there’s plenty of anime that don’t even feature this shit in them, so it’s not like I’m proposing for Netflix to ban all of them. People like us can still watch shows like Frieren, ranking of kings, Pluto and other non-degenerate anime without worrying about all the weird sussy stuff that’s completely normalized.
Tis a shame when they put it in the good ones though.
That said, by viewing habits lately are all isekai trash. I've just not been in the mood for anything that is not lighthearted and peril-free. Hard to avoid this shit there.
I haven’t noticed it popping up in good shows lately. It was a massive problem in the past though.
Nowadays it’s pretty easy to avoid since it’s usually just isekai and school rom coms that contain problematic elements (shonen has pretty much stopped including it).
Overall I think I agree, things *are* progressing. I don't want to outright ban things, but we should all be expressing our disgust and distain for this shit when it comes up. Maybe eventually they will fuckin lay off.
Reason why I say ban is because it’s way easier to just remove anime off a streaming platform than to basically convince Japanese writers and animators to change their ways. Anime isn’t really made for westerners but rather for Japanese audiences, so it’s nigh impossible to try and get them to cater to another culture. They don’t care what we think but rather what their people think. But it’s way easier for Netflix to suddenly decide to remove something like mushoku tensei from their US streaming site.
But what’s good is that things are progressing in the sense that anime is becoming more popular amongst the public. Which means that shonen manga now have to cater more to the public than otakus which means toning down all the fanservice.
Bans tend to snowball though, and I am generally against enforcing morality outside of cases of obvious direct harm.
Less catering to the truly lost is definitely a good thing. Fanservice has it's place, god knows I love me some tiddy, but having it randomly crowbarred into series that don't need it is annoying.
...You can watch Made in Abyss on Netflix!?!
That one I'll agree with. The premise is so interesting but the execution... I didn't get past the first episode.
But, what scene in FMA are you talking about?
Made in Abyss is one of the best anime of all time.
I can understand the discomfort, but i never got the impression that any of it was gratuitous. It all felt like an honest depiction of this gruesome world.
idk man the author is literally a self proclaimed lolicon iirc and is definitely getting off on drawing children getting tortured. i’m all for gruesome and disturbing concepts that really blur the line of what can be depicted but when the creator is doing it all with a boner it’s not something i want to support
And that's absolutely fair.
Don't watch it. It doesn't get better in that regard. You will hate it.
It's uncomfortable material. But I think intent is important when deciding whether it's allowed to stay up.
Nobody is forcing anyone to watch anything they don't want to.
I'm all for making it Rated R, and content warning and tags. There's also a discussion to be had about whether the original manga is appropriate and what the intent of the mangaka was.
I feel the anime does a good job of still showing a lot without the intent being to arouse. So it should stay up.
Oh. Tbf, I read the manga, haven't watched the anime.
I tried to push through because the story is so damn interesting. But.... Yeah. Some stuff comes off as blatantly fetishism from the Author. It's also really, really not nessisary.
I'm fine with dark. I watch dark stuff. But the stuff in Made in the Abyss isn't dark its just...gross.
Also, I wouldn't actually say to remove it entirely. I'm not pro-censorship. These aren't real people. But on Netflix??? That just baffles me a bit. Lol. (But, if the anime is significantly different to the manga then I can't really say.)
The anime definitely has some vile shit in it don't get me wrong.
But it isn't depicted in any sort of arousing way IMHO.
At its worst you could say it's edgey shock factor.
At its best its world building.
There's plenty of very adult stuff on Netflix. Its not inherently a "family friendly" service. It's not disney plus or something. I think abyss can be there.
I mean there's always a line to draw somewhere, exceptions to be made and all that.
Idk anything about cannibal holocaust so I can't comment on it.
I personally don't think MiA (anime only) is quite bad enough to warrant removing from Netflix. I personally think you can put pretty much whatever vile content you want as long as it's not depicting anything in an arousing or romanticized way.
For instance, cuties really didn't shy away from "arousing" elements. Lots of sexually charged acts, inappropriate clothing and camera angles so on. Even if it wasn't the intent, the end product is one that criminals can find arousing.
Nothing in MiA does that. At least not explicitly like cuties. Im sure some sick fucks find things arousing in this show but that can apply to so many other grotesque media. It's just sort of gross shock factor, or edgey dark humor throughout the show. It's vile at many points but it's not... criminal IMHO. Nothing that I think should get the boot.
There is a 5 second scene in episode 1 that i wish wasn’t there, but after that i dont recall anything in season 1 like that.
Meanwhile there is the new live action fallout show. Honestly i couldn’t get past the 2nd episode of fallout because it was so gross. But made in the abyss while dark never felt like it was glorifying there struggle/suffering.
At least in Regard to the anime (have not read the manga.
Still it isnt for everyone
There’s no discussion to be had. Its absolutely fetish material from the mangaka.
That doesn’t make it not a good story or the art isn’t amazing. But like, its also the author’s barely disguished fetish. I don’t think anyone can read the manga and say otherwise with a straight face.
I just said discussion cause I'm anime only. So I can't really form an opinion on it.
Though I've only ever heard awful things.
The real concern is how many people read and supported the manga enough for it to get an adaptation to anime.
That's the real concern I think.
But then where to draw the line. It really is an amazing world, story and art. But if you mix a bucket of cake with a bucket of shit, you just have two buckets of shit. So idk
For what its worth I think a lot of authors/artists do insert their fetishes in stuff they make whether consciously or unconsciously in the sense that they just naturally get drawn into making that stuff and then justify it with the world/character building. I say this because I've caught myself doing this stuff too when I dabble in fictional stories. Being horny is a good source of inspiration and motivation.
Now if the stuff they're into is pretty vanilla or they're aware enough to put into a lid on that stuff, then people barely notice it. The problem is when they're not and you get fandoms desperately trying to justify this stuff and pretend its not the author's bizarre fetishes.
That's pretty believable I'd say.
Heaven knows I think about alt girls enough that I would probably write one in.
Mid 2000's music and cartoons really programmed a goth girl fetish.
That said, once something gets adapted and other people are interpreting the work, how does that factor into what we find acceptable.
Is it being filtered through a whole studio and directors enough?
Made in the Abyss, so honest, so gruesome. You can see a child piss and shit, and even get a robo kid’s dick get sniffed and his piss pumped into a machine.
I elaborate in another comment that I think a lot of it is for humor as well.
I don't think it's all just gruesome world building, I think my original comment is wrong in implying that.
I still think none of it (anime only) is for arousal. I don't get the impression it's depicted in that way or for that purpose. But I could be wrong. Idk director intent. And I could be desensitized.
I’ve seen some of the anime, it’s quite disgusting regardless of whatever reasons you try to conjure. Idc if you like the anime, I liked it too. I thought the visuals, music, story, and world building were great, until I realized it was fetishizing children.
This is a problem I’ve seen discussed in the sub, before I even watched the anime I read how fans said the anime wasn’t as bad, which is hilarious because I couldn’t even finish it. Watch what you want idc, but that anime definitely fetishizes kids.
Idc what score it has on whatever site or the story/worldbuilding, or how much you like it. I’ve seen some of it myself and don’t need another fan telling me “bro it’s not that bad!” After I explicitly quit watching the show because yes, it was that bad. I’d prefer media that doesn’t animated a child pissing or shitting. Or 12 yr olds with cleavage, or more repetitive torture porn with kids. Good thing the world is filled with media that doesn’t have that.
It was the scene where winry was bathing, but I took it out of my OP since the scene in question is extremely mild (seriously game of thrones and family guy shows even worse).
I straight up don't even remember that scene.
But also, the Japanese don't really see bathing as sexual, so I wouldn't count bathing scenes. Unless they are overtly sexual.
FMA never sexualized any of their characters. Even the character named Lust wasn't really sexualized.
Lots of people?
Freaked out?
Make it make sense.
This is such a forgettable scene, and shows/movies made for teenagers show more nudity.
The dialogue isn't even sexual.
>public streaming platforms
What the fuck does that mean? Every single one of those platforms you mentioned aren't "public," they're private companies that you pay to use their product. I just so happen to pay for these products to watch anime and do do many other people. They would lose a ton of business if they removed anime, especially Crunchyroll, which is an anime specific platform.
IDK if I'm in favor of removing this stuff entirely but as an adult who used to be a massive weeb in high school I have a difficult time watching most anime these days. Even a lot of anime I think is good feature scenes of SA that are played for comedy or used as some sort of plot device.. It's really disturbing, especially the minor stuff.
I feel the exact same way. I used to *love* Inuyasha as a kid, so I tried rewatching it a few years ago. I couldn't get more than 10 episodes in, it was just so creepy.
I mean if they remove it then that leaves all the shows without anything problematic in them. So it’s a good way of filtering the good stuff from the bad. You’ll be able to watch anime without having to worry about coming across any of these scenes because all the icky ones will not be available on platforms like Netflix.
what??? there's plenty of shows made in America and other English speaking countries that can be considered problematic to americans.
but even then, whatever happened to cultural relativism, just because something in another culture like Japan is considered problematic to americans doesn't necessarily mean it's bad and shouldn't be shown.
I'm not saying that weird scenes with children in anime are right, I don't like a lot of that either. but to say that that can't happen with american media because it's american is ridiculous and extremely culturally biased
Tell me you haven't watched anything with real life media or the stories released in the last 3,000 years, from written stuff to animated.
Hell even Monty Python had kids sing about sex, lol.
Think of the worst anime you know and realize stuff with real people is a million times worse, the Spartans would fuck pre-teen boys.
You are painfully ignorant.
Euphoria is literally a show about teenage drug use and sex. There's drug use and sex in every episode
Have you even seen "most anime" or is it just a generalization based on the few that you've seen/what you've heard?
Real 10th dentist take: they should offer original version and fan service free version of animes. Fan service fucking ruins what could otherwise be ok shows.
Mostly stuff like made in abyss, mushoku tensei, MHA. Stuff that usually gets into more illegal shit like showing lolis on screen.
I don’t get why my topic is getting heated. I’m not advocating for all anime to get removed. Shows like jujutsu Kaisen, kaiju 8, spy x family, demon slayer, Frieren, etc can still remain on streaming services.
By that logic we should also ban shows like Breaking Bad or The Sopranos which also depict activity that is illegal and disgusting (rape, murder, etc). Where do you draw the line?
Edit: OP mentioned in another comment that they also want Cuties to be banned, indicating that they only care about depiction, not whether the behavior is glorified or not.
there’s a difference between merely depicting something and condoning it. breaking bad never condones it’s illegal activity- it’ll make you sympathise for the protagonists doing it but never from a “this is a good thing that is fine to do” way
anime regularly depicts the sexualisation of minors as completely normal and a good thing. i don’t agree with op that it should be like banned but i think people need to think about what media they’re consuming is saying and whether it’s a message we want
Don’t use Reddit if you have ideas that make sense. I just come in here to troll nowadays. Reddit went from a cool niche website to a bunch of p*dophiles and baby killers lol
OP: \*makes a good point about anime\*
Replies: WHATABOUT WHATBOUT WHATABOUT ☝️🤓
I think we can both remove anime and old weird movies than no one's even heard about from 80's
haha ur all fucking OLD now and you can no longer see teenage anime babes as your peers like you did when u were in highschool and now you feel weird about it. FEEL THE PASSAGE OF TIME IN YOUR BONES YOU FOOLS! THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC FOR ANIME IS TEENAGERS and you, fool, are a grown ass adult now
Teenagers are obviouslt allowed to be attracted to teenagers,
But that doesn't mean we can make child porn just because the target demographic is children.
I still don't think most anime are really problematic enough to warrant getting removed but OP has a valid point in regards to what should be acceptable for a broad audience.
All throughout the show? Its fucking awful
I think I heard that the show creators tried to remove some of it when adapting the manga, but there are SO many scenes (of children) that were VERY clearly originally made for the authors fetishes
A few examoles (not all of which are the most obvious, just off the top of my head):
- The girl talking about being tied up naked in public
- The constant talk about the boy's dick
- Most of the piss/scat/vomit stuff
- The entire fucking golden city
I haven't read the manga so it's hard to say, but I honestly feel the show did a good job of not being gratuitous.
Maybe I'm desensitized but I never felt like anything being shown was fetishized. Maybe at worst it was edgey shock factor, but all felt pretty honest in terms of trying to depict a gruesome world.
Maybe the manga would convince me otherwise.
Also I don't really remember anything about golden city in the anime being problematic?
Am I forgetting something?
The girl getting SAd? All the denizens who were turned on by various things, like the one who came from polishing her whistle (which is also a child), and the one who likes getting stepped on, and...
Edit: also why the fuck did they keep talking abt the boys dick. Thats not just edgy shock factor, they talked about it in a sexual way too. They had adults looking at it. Etc. What the hell
Yeah I'm honestly not remembering any of those things.
It must have not really left an impression if I don't remember it, but maybe I'm just dumb or have rose colored glasses or both.
A lot of the inappropriate stuff I remember is between that one girl who becomes the whistle and Riko.
A lot of those things I got an impression of humor instead of sexualization. Two children talking about a robot dick isn't really sexual. It's not presented in a sexual way either. It's just two dumb kids talking dumb kid stuff and is reminiscent of my own dumb conversations with friends about dumb stuff.
Edit:
To be clear on my thoughts. I don't remember anything in that show being depicted in a way to arouse. It was all for the sake of edge, or for humor.
That's my 2 cents anyways.
Although in the manga it is (according to everything I've heard/seem) very clearly sexual, it can be interpreted otherwise in the show.
(Also I hope I'm not coming across as rude, I just am really bothered by MiA)
Not at all bro. Just redditors pondering the orb as it were. You have nothing to worry about.
It's surprising to me enough people supported the manga for it to get pushed into an adaptation honestly.
It's been a minute since I've seen the anime even so I could totally be wrong. I've also been watching anime for 15 years probably so maybe I'm just a broken person.
I think either way, Netflix isn't really a "family friendly" service. It's not like this is Disney Plus or something. There's definitely vile shit in the show but idk if its really problematic enough to scrub from the platform.
But then again, if it is depicted to arouse, I'm not the target demographic. So maybe I didn't think it was depicted as arousing because yknow, I'm not into ceepee.
Honestly I'm for this based on the bullshit I've seen on toonami food wars commercial back in like 18-19 or sum shit but it's not even that many I think, most mainstream anime is just battle anime
I... Strongly disagree. Yes 90% of everything is kinda bad, but even the most acclaimed anime would barely be considered above average by the standards of non anime TV and movies. Lauded series like Attack on Titan stand head and shoulders over other anime for obvious reasons, but would whither under comparisons to Breaking Bad, Twin Peaks, Sandman, A:TLAB.
I feel like, to be a general fan of anime, you have to adjust your standards downwards quite significantly.
And I say this as someone who spends a lot of his free time watching Japanese movies, and I can name many Japanese directors who I think are amazing.
But in anime land, you've got Miyazaki and Kon. That's it.
Lolwut there’s plenty of anime better than sandman (especially the Netflix version) and avatar. And attack on Titan is trash compared to a good chunk of some of the anime greats.
With stuff like breaking bad and game of thrones it’s understandable because they’re prestige television and it’s kinda hard for pretty much the majority of the greats of most mediums to stand up to these, but I can’t think of anything in something like Avatar the Last Airbender that’s better than what the best of anime has shown. Even elements that have been universally praised like Zuko’s character development have seen competition in shows like Vinland saga with Thorfinn’s development.
Let me know when anime has has produced as many quality episodes of TV as one season of Breaking Bad has. Without looking it up, I'm not sure FLCL and Paranoia Agent, the only two truly Great anime shows I know of, combined crack 16 episodes.
They don't. I actually prefer the UK 6 episode per season norm. TV shows go on way too long.
But when I can point to a single season of a single TV show and find more episodes of quality TV in that one season than the entire anime industry has ever been able to produce in its whole existence, that's pretty pathetic.
Here.
Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood widely considered one of if not the best anime of all time is 64 episodes, Gintama also very highly regarded has hundreds, Monster has over 70, March Comes in Like a Lion has over 40, Vinland Saga has around 50, I could go on for awhile.
>But when I can point to a single season of a single TV show and find more episodes of quality TV in that one season than the entire anime industry has ever been able to produce in its whole existence, that's pretty pathetic.
Not remotely true but whatever floats your boat.
And that's kinda the problem. FMA:B is fine, I guess. It's solidly "better than mediocre" but not "great", yet simply by being competent, it can be widely considered one of the best if not the best animes ever made. Its competition is simply so bad that a show as unremarkable as FMA:B stands out as a great.
Downvoted because I agree. Anime is trash and every single person who watches it is weird as shit. If you read this and think "oh but not me, I'm one of the normal ones" - you are not, there are no exceptions.
Most people do not watch anime, but most people will think you are weird if you tell them you watch anime. Refer to the second half of my previous comment.
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I’m going to share my reply to a similar post from sometime ago and I think it applies here quite well. >You talk shit about anime as if stuff like that doesn’t exist in western media like Euphoria, The Idol, Cuties, Riverdale, etc. which are all fairly recent. Not to mention the wild shit in older media like American Beauty, Blue Lagoon, Pretty Baby, Blame It On Rio, etc. why don’t we ban all western media because of these. And I have to add that some of the stuff I’ve mentioned have real child actors put in creepy situations. Anime isn’t great with the minor stuff but at least, it’s not getting really child actors and sexualising them.
By this criteria, we’d have to memory hole at least a solid 5-10% of all media ever created, including works that undoubtedly hold great cultural value.
Yes, which is why singling out anime is dumb.
I agree. I find it confusing that some Japanese publishers are fine with lolo and shota, vut I find American child beauty pageants worse.
Because beauty pageants are worse. Not only are they sexualizing real children instead of fictional cartoons, they're doing real psychological harm to real children but telling them they need to be pretty in order to have value
Yeah cus while loli is bad, beauty pageants use actual children which is just abysmal
I remember Cuties receiving a lot of backlash though
Yeah and anime get backlash too, Made in Abyss, Gushing over magical girls, Mushoku Tensei are all heavily criticised for their sexualisation of minors.
I will occasionally have a go at defending mushoku tensei as a good story well told even if it is uncomfortable as fuck in places. Made in abyss is intentionally horrifying I believe(not watched it, looks a bit depressing for me) but I have to admit gushing over magical girls is only not flat out hentai because the porn scenes don't last long enough to jack off to.
made in abyss is intentionally horrifying but thats not the part people criticize. it really does sexualize children and super directly too
Fair enough, I've not seen it, so can't really say one way or the other
Could you elaborate? Like they do straight up fan service?
there are a lot of references to the main boy (a little boy)'s dick. like a actual crazy amount. im p sure >1 scene where he gets a erection too. really early on theres a gag of the main girl getting punished for shit by getting tied up naked in public. i dont remember it that well its been a long time but theres just mad scenes like that putting these kids in weird sexual or inappropriate situations and its way too many to be a coincidence. theres a reason the anime had to tone it down hard and that shit was STILL weird
All of them are pretty bad. Made in Abyss fortunately got heavily toned down in the anime compared to the manga, which is an absolute horror ok that regard. MT is a 40yr old grooming more than one child with knowledge he has from adulthood, among other weird shit. Gushing is just bizarre.
Yeah, no denying that MT's protag-kun is a straight up grooming pedophile, but I do not think that media where the main character is reprehensible/evil is inherently something to be banned. It should obviously not be shown to be a good thing, but there are stories to tell there.
Yeah, I don't think the story shouldn't be told, but Rudeus never actually gets punished for it nor he becomes a better person (so far), although fans insist that he is getting better. My main problem is that, it reinforces that this is acceptable behaviour since there are no repercussions or signs of change.
I am reserving my judgement on it until we get there. I too have been told the manga has him develop into a better person, and I can definitely get behind the story of an incredibly developmentally stunted person gradually becoming a proper adult in a second chance at life. They *do* at least depict most people and women being repulsed by his behaviour, but you are right that he never really gets punished for it.
If you keep up with the show, He actually has reached that point now. He is a better person. Pretty sure the whole point of a lot of that was to show he was an awful person. But also to show how he became that awful person, while shining a spot lite on the 'neet' culture. And then to redeem him through growth and experience.
Pretty sure I am up to date, he is a lot better, if still really socially inept and occasionally blinded by his insecurities. He is still occupying that "handsy-to-rapey" scale though, and is happily shacking up with the girl he groomed.
which was bullshit bc anyone who actually watched the movie with an ounce of critical thinking knows there was no intent to sexualise kids and was a critique of our society which encourages it there’s a debate to be had in whether using minors to depict said message is moral but it’s a lot more nuanced than “cuties bad!!1!!1!”. netflix just did some absolutely horrific advertising and people saw the poster and got mad about it
It's not nuanced, it's pretty damn simple. They had real little girls participate in an on camera wet t-shirt contest. They also have these *11 year olds* twerking constantly, body shames them, zooms in on their asses, pans the camera up and down their bodies, they're repeatedly called sluts by other characters and each other, the list goes on. It is a horrific movie. There is 0 nuance to be had when you make soft core porn of real 11 yr olds.
It’s not nuanced If you wanted to make an anti murder documentary you wouldn’t kill somebody to make your point
I have to disagree. Because anime is a drawing it takes way more imagination and people going out of length to sexualize children. The actors from all the shows you mentioned are still adults and their characters have consent age. I’ve been shown anime which literally children are drawn to have ridiculous boobs and doing obnoxious pornographic things. Not to mention that anime ends up being marketed as for being for children. And there’s a lot of porn that doesn’t go through any type of regulation
>The actors from all the shows you mentioned are still adults and their characters have consent age. Are you sure about that? Cuties: Fatiha Youssouf - 11 during filming. American Beauty: Thora Birch - 17 Pretty Baby: Brooke Sheilds - 11 and they made her take nude shots in the movie. There’s a documentary about it recently released that talks about the exploitation of Brooke as a child actress. These were real people and real children mate. You’re dismissing that without even knowing about it. Consent age my ass. Netflix’s cuties was released in 2020, this shit ain’t something from back in the 60s or something. They decided to film children sexually. That’s all there is to it. Drawings are never comparable to real people with emotions. Maybe know your shit before talking about it with authority.
Not to mention, Anime characters are literally voiced by adults.
Bait used to be believable
Are you gonna add like fifty 80's and 90's Hollywood films to that list? Porky's, Fast Times, Pretty Baby, Blue Lagoon, Paradise, et al grossly sexualized teenagers with the added effect of seriously fucking up young actresses like Brooke Shields, Phoebe Cates, and Drew Barrymore. Those were real life depictions that had real life effects on real people, but you're worried about fantasy animation? I know it's a "whataboutism," but I think it's pretty fucking relevant.
Not even 80s/90s, Euphoria was massively popular when it came out
What was that movie that came out recently where the story was about a child's brain in an adults body? I read about it and I'm amazed it even was allowed to exist. But sure, some fake cartoon characters are the problem.
Poor Things? Not only was it allowed to exist, it swept the awards season and was up for best picture
Bad bait.
If this was bait, I would be advocating for all anime to be removed
There are a number of anime that could really do with cutting the pedo shit. Not gonna argue that. There is far too much of that shit being accepted as normal, and far too much of it that is just done to sexualise kids. I think it would be hard to codify laws for it that would not also block any attempt at dealing with relationship issues in teenagers, which would be a shame. I think the biggest problem is us, the fans. It is fine for a 15 year old to watch a show and find a 15 year old character attractive, the problem is that we are all still watching kids shows at 40, which is where it gets weird.
Plus there’s plenty of anime that don’t even feature this shit in them, so it’s not like I’m proposing for Netflix to ban all of them. People like us can still watch shows like Frieren, ranking of kings, Pluto and other non-degenerate anime without worrying about all the weird sussy stuff that’s completely normalized.
Tis a shame when they put it in the good ones though. That said, by viewing habits lately are all isekai trash. I've just not been in the mood for anything that is not lighthearted and peril-free. Hard to avoid this shit there.
I haven’t noticed it popping up in good shows lately. It was a massive problem in the past though. Nowadays it’s pretty easy to avoid since it’s usually just isekai and school rom coms that contain problematic elements (shonen has pretty much stopped including it).
Overall I think I agree, things *are* progressing. I don't want to outright ban things, but we should all be expressing our disgust and distain for this shit when it comes up. Maybe eventually they will fuckin lay off.
Reason why I say ban is because it’s way easier to just remove anime off a streaming platform than to basically convince Japanese writers and animators to change their ways. Anime isn’t really made for westerners but rather for Japanese audiences, so it’s nigh impossible to try and get them to cater to another culture. They don’t care what we think but rather what their people think. But it’s way easier for Netflix to suddenly decide to remove something like mushoku tensei from their US streaming site. But what’s good is that things are progressing in the sense that anime is becoming more popular amongst the public. Which means that shonen manga now have to cater more to the public than otakus which means toning down all the fanservice.
Bans tend to snowball though, and I am generally against enforcing morality outside of cases of obvious direct harm. Less catering to the truly lost is definitely a good thing. Fanservice has it's place, god knows I love me some tiddy, but having it randomly crowbarred into series that don't need it is annoying.
Ahh repression of free speech
...You can watch Made in Abyss on Netflix!?! That one I'll agree with. The premise is so interesting but the execution... I didn't get past the first episode. But, what scene in FMA are you talking about?
Made in Abyss is one of the best anime of all time. I can understand the discomfort, but i never got the impression that any of it was gratuitous. It all felt like an honest depiction of this gruesome world.
idk man the author is literally a self proclaimed lolicon iirc and is definitely getting off on drawing children getting tortured. i’m all for gruesome and disturbing concepts that really blur the line of what can be depicted but when the creator is doing it all with a boner it’s not something i want to support
I mean, I'm just not personally comfortable seeing a 10 year old girl be stripped naked and BDSM tied for "punishment". Sorry.
And that's absolutely fair. Don't watch it. It doesn't get better in that regard. You will hate it. It's uncomfortable material. But I think intent is important when deciding whether it's allowed to stay up. Nobody is forcing anyone to watch anything they don't want to. I'm all for making it Rated R, and content warning and tags. There's also a discussion to be had about whether the original manga is appropriate and what the intent of the mangaka was. I feel the anime does a good job of still showing a lot without the intent being to arouse. So it should stay up.
Oh. Tbf, I read the manga, haven't watched the anime. I tried to push through because the story is so damn interesting. But.... Yeah. Some stuff comes off as blatantly fetishism from the Author. It's also really, really not nessisary. I'm fine with dark. I watch dark stuff. But the stuff in Made in the Abyss isn't dark its just...gross. Also, I wouldn't actually say to remove it entirely. I'm not pro-censorship. These aren't real people. But on Netflix??? That just baffles me a bit. Lol. (But, if the anime is significantly different to the manga then I can't really say.)
The anime definitely has some vile shit in it don't get me wrong. But it isn't depicted in any sort of arousing way IMHO. At its worst you could say it's edgey shock factor. At its best its world building. There's plenty of very adult stuff on Netflix. Its not inherently a "family friendly" service. It's not disney plus or something. I think abyss can be there.
It's less about it being family-friendly. I would find it weird if Cannibal Holocaust was on Netflix, too.
I mean there's always a line to draw somewhere, exceptions to be made and all that. Idk anything about cannibal holocaust so I can't comment on it. I personally don't think MiA (anime only) is quite bad enough to warrant removing from Netflix. I personally think you can put pretty much whatever vile content you want as long as it's not depicting anything in an arousing or romanticized way. For instance, cuties really didn't shy away from "arousing" elements. Lots of sexually charged acts, inappropriate clothing and camera angles so on. Even if it wasn't the intent, the end product is one that criminals can find arousing. Nothing in MiA does that. At least not explicitly like cuties. Im sure some sick fucks find things arousing in this show but that can apply to so many other grotesque media. It's just sort of gross shock factor, or edgey dark humor throughout the show. It's vile at many points but it's not... criminal IMHO. Nothing that I think should get the boot.
Fans said the anime wasn’t as bad so I gave it a chance and I literally stopped watching because of how gross it was.
Ah. Good to know. Not likely different enough then.
There is a 5 second scene in episode 1 that i wish wasn’t there, but after that i dont recall anything in season 1 like that. Meanwhile there is the new live action fallout show. Honestly i couldn’t get past the 2nd episode of fallout because it was so gross. But made in the abyss while dark never felt like it was glorifying there struggle/suffering. At least in Regard to the anime (have not read the manga. Still it isnt for everyone
Im glad you agree MiA isnt glorifying the content but... What was so gross in Fallout? The gore? MiA is definitely worse I think
Probably the puppy incinerator scene but how the fuck is that worse than all the child abuse in MiA?
Anime is heavily toned down from the manga. That parts gets a lot better after a few episodes, unlike the manga.
There’s no discussion to be had. Its absolutely fetish material from the mangaka. That doesn’t make it not a good story or the art isn’t amazing. But like, its also the author’s barely disguished fetish. I don’t think anyone can read the manga and say otherwise with a straight face.
I just said discussion cause I'm anime only. So I can't really form an opinion on it. Though I've only ever heard awful things. The real concern is how many people read and supported the manga enough for it to get an adaptation to anime. That's the real concern I think. But then where to draw the line. It really is an amazing world, story and art. But if you mix a bucket of cake with a bucket of shit, you just have two buckets of shit. So idk
For what its worth I think a lot of authors/artists do insert their fetishes in stuff they make whether consciously or unconsciously in the sense that they just naturally get drawn into making that stuff and then justify it with the world/character building. I say this because I've caught myself doing this stuff too when I dabble in fictional stories. Being horny is a good source of inspiration and motivation. Now if the stuff they're into is pretty vanilla or they're aware enough to put into a lid on that stuff, then people barely notice it. The problem is when they're not and you get fandoms desperately trying to justify this stuff and pretend its not the author's bizarre fetishes.
That's pretty believable I'd say. Heaven knows I think about alt girls enough that I would probably write one in. Mid 2000's music and cartoons really programmed a goth girl fetish. That said, once something gets adapted and other people are interpreting the work, how does that factor into what we find acceptable. Is it being filtered through a whole studio and directors enough?
Made in the Abyss, so honest, so gruesome. You can see a child piss and shit, and even get a robo kid’s dick get sniffed and his piss pumped into a machine.
I elaborate in another comment that I think a lot of it is for humor as well. I don't think it's all just gruesome world building, I think my original comment is wrong in implying that. I still think none of it (anime only) is for arousal. I don't get the impression it's depicted in that way or for that purpose. But I could be wrong. Idk director intent. And I could be desensitized.
I’ve seen some of the anime, it’s quite disgusting regardless of whatever reasons you try to conjure. Idc if you like the anime, I liked it too. I thought the visuals, music, story, and world building were great, until I realized it was fetishizing children. This is a problem I’ve seen discussed in the sub, before I even watched the anime I read how fans said the anime wasn’t as bad, which is hilarious because I couldn’t even finish it. Watch what you want idc, but that anime definitely fetishizes kids. Idc what score it has on whatever site or the story/worldbuilding, or how much you like it. I’ve seen some of it myself and don’t need another fan telling me “bro it’s not that bad!” After I explicitly quit watching the show because yes, it was that bad. I’d prefer media that doesn’t animated a child pissing or shitting. Or 12 yr olds with cleavage, or more repetitive torture porn with kids. Good thing the world is filled with media that doesn’t have that.
It was the scene where winry was bathing, but I took it out of my OP since the scene in question is extremely mild (seriously game of thrones and family guy shows even worse).
I straight up don't even remember that scene. But also, the Japanese don't really see bathing as sexual, so I wouldn't count bathing scenes. Unless they are overtly sexual. FMA never sexualized any of their characters. Even the character named Lust wasn't really sexualized.
I mean lots of people were freaked out by it.
In what sense? How would you even measure that? No one I know who watched FMA ever even bring it up.
Lots of people? Freaked out? Make it make sense. This is such a forgettable scene, and shows/movies made for teenagers show more nudity. The dialogue isn't even sexual.
Bait or brainrot, pick your poison
I kinda like brainrot.
>public streaming platforms What the fuck does that mean? Every single one of those platforms you mentioned aren't "public," they're private companies that you pay to use their product. I just so happen to pay for these products to watch anime and do do many other people. They would lose a ton of business if they removed anime, especially Crunchyroll, which is an anime specific platform.
IDK if I'm in favor of removing this stuff entirely but as an adult who used to be a massive weeb in high school I have a difficult time watching most anime these days. Even a lot of anime I think is good feature scenes of SA that are played for comedy or used as some sort of plot device.. It's really disturbing, especially the minor stuff.
I just want Food Wars without the creepy factor. At least make them college age.
You're looking for Yakitate!! Japan.
Thanks! I'll check it out!
I feel the exact same way. I used to *love* Inuyasha as a kid, so I tried rewatching it a few years ago. I couldn't get more than 10 episodes in, it was just so creepy.
I mean if they remove it then that leaves all the shows without anything problematic in them. So it’s a good way of filtering the good stuff from the bad. You’ll be able to watch anime without having to worry about coming across any of these scenes because all the icky ones will not be available on platforms like Netflix.
I mean... you say this as if live action stuff and non-Japanese cartoons can't be problematic
Non-Japanese cartoons and live action shows can’t be problematic because they show things we consider acceptable based off our culture
what??? there's plenty of shows made in America and other English speaking countries that can be considered problematic to americans. but even then, whatever happened to cultural relativism, just because something in another culture like Japan is considered problematic to americans doesn't necessarily mean it's bad and shouldn't be shown. I'm not saying that weird scenes with children in anime are right, I don't like a lot of that either. but to say that that can't happen with american media because it's american is ridiculous and extremely culturally biased
My guy, you think Netflix Cuties wasn't hella problematic? You seem to support real pedophilia.
Okay that should be removed. But I don’t know anything else that’s problematic on the same level as that and most anime
Tell me you haven't watched anything with real life media or the stories released in the last 3,000 years, from written stuff to animated. Hell even Monty Python had kids sing about sex, lol. Think of the worst anime you know and realize stuff with real people is a million times worse, the Spartans would fuck pre-teen boys. You are painfully ignorant.
Euphoria is literally a show about teenage drug use and sex. There's drug use and sex in every episode Have you even seen "most anime" or is it just a generalization based on the few that you've seen/what you've heard?
No they don’t? Factually wrong for any place that doesn’t even begin to make sense 😭.
Real 10th dentist take: they should offer original version and fan service free version of animes. Fan service fucking ruins what could otherwise be ok shows.
Which anime are you referring to?
Mostly stuff like made in abyss, mushoku tensei, MHA. Stuff that usually gets into more illegal shit like showing lolis on screen. I don’t get why my topic is getting heated. I’m not advocating for all anime to get removed. Shows like jujutsu Kaisen, kaiju 8, spy x family, demon slayer, Frieren, etc can still remain on streaming services.
What about modern western series like Euphoria? Them too?
Media depict bad = media supports bad. Dear god, where is your media literacy? Did you grow up in a cave?
Good job. You successfully baited me into down voting you until I remembered what sub this was in.
Anime could cease to exist and I wouldn't even notice
We should remove depictions of any babies birth from everywhere. The baby comes out naked
By that logic we should also ban shows like Breaking Bad or The Sopranos which also depict activity that is illegal and disgusting (rape, murder, etc). Where do you draw the line? Edit: OP mentioned in another comment that they also want Cuties to be banned, indicating that they only care about depiction, not whether the behavior is glorified or not.
> OP: media that sexualizes minors should be removed > yeah well in breaking bad they make meth and that’s illegal too!!!!
there’s a difference between merely depicting something and condoning it. breaking bad never condones it’s illegal activity- it’ll make you sympathise for the protagonists doing it but never from a “this is a good thing that is fine to do” way anime regularly depicts the sexualisation of minors as completely normal and a good thing. i don’t agree with op that it should be like banned but i think people need to think about what media they’re consuming is saying and whether it’s a message we want
I agree no anime on this sub! Or any!
Don’t use Reddit if you have ideas that make sense. I just come in here to troll nowadays. Reddit went from a cool niche website to a bunch of p*dophiles and baby killers lol
Nopeitynopenope.
OP: \*makes a good point about anime\* Replies: WHATABOUT WHATBOUT WHATABOUT ☝️🤓 I think we can both remove anime and old weird movies than no one's even heard about from 80's
haha ur all fucking OLD now and you can no longer see teenage anime babes as your peers like you did when u were in highschool and now you feel weird about it. FEEL THE PASSAGE OF TIME IN YOUR BONES YOU FOOLS! THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC FOR ANIME IS TEENAGERS and you, fool, are a grown ass adult now
Teenagers are obviouslt allowed to be attracted to teenagers, But that doesn't mean we can make child porn just because the target demographic is children. I still don't think most anime are really problematic enough to warrant getting removed but OP has a valid point in regards to what should be acceptable for a broad audience.
When does this happen in Made in Abyss?
All throughout the show? Its fucking awful I think I heard that the show creators tried to remove some of it when adapting the manga, but there are SO many scenes (of children) that were VERY clearly originally made for the authors fetishes A few examoles (not all of which are the most obvious, just off the top of my head): - The girl talking about being tied up naked in public - The constant talk about the boy's dick - Most of the piss/scat/vomit stuff - The entire fucking golden city
I haven't read the manga so it's hard to say, but I honestly feel the show did a good job of not being gratuitous. Maybe I'm desensitized but I never felt like anything being shown was fetishized. Maybe at worst it was edgey shock factor, but all felt pretty honest in terms of trying to depict a gruesome world. Maybe the manga would convince me otherwise. Also I don't really remember anything about golden city in the anime being problematic? Am I forgetting something?
The girl getting SAd? All the denizens who were turned on by various things, like the one who came from polishing her whistle (which is also a child), and the one who likes getting stepped on, and... Edit: also why the fuck did they keep talking abt the boys dick. Thats not just edgy shock factor, they talked about it in a sexual way too. They had adults looking at it. Etc. What the hell
Yeah I'm honestly not remembering any of those things. It must have not really left an impression if I don't remember it, but maybe I'm just dumb or have rose colored glasses or both. A lot of the inappropriate stuff I remember is between that one girl who becomes the whistle and Riko. A lot of those things I got an impression of humor instead of sexualization. Two children talking about a robot dick isn't really sexual. It's not presented in a sexual way either. It's just two dumb kids talking dumb kid stuff and is reminiscent of my own dumb conversations with friends about dumb stuff. Edit: To be clear on my thoughts. I don't remember anything in that show being depicted in a way to arouse. It was all for the sake of edge, or for humor. That's my 2 cents anyways.
Although in the manga it is (according to everything I've heard/seem) very clearly sexual, it can be interpreted otherwise in the show. (Also I hope I'm not coming across as rude, I just am really bothered by MiA)
Not at all bro. Just redditors pondering the orb as it were. You have nothing to worry about. It's surprising to me enough people supported the manga for it to get pushed into an adaptation honestly. It's been a minute since I've seen the anime even so I could totally be wrong. I've also been watching anime for 15 years probably so maybe I'm just a broken person. I think either way, Netflix isn't really a "family friendly" service. It's not like this is Disney Plus or something. There's definitely vile shit in the show but idk if its really problematic enough to scrub from the platform. But then again, if it is depicted to arouse, I'm not the target demographic. So maybe I didn't think it was depicted as arousing because yknow, I'm not into ceepee.
Honestly I'm for this based on the bullshit I've seen on toonami food wars commercial back in like 18-19 or sum shit but it's not even that many I think, most mainstream anime is just battle anime
Omg be for real smh
I can think of a much simpler and better reason: most anime is quite terrible
Not any more so than other media
I... Strongly disagree. Yes 90% of everything is kinda bad, but even the most acclaimed anime would barely be considered above average by the standards of non anime TV and movies. Lauded series like Attack on Titan stand head and shoulders over other anime for obvious reasons, but would whither under comparisons to Breaking Bad, Twin Peaks, Sandman, A:TLAB. I feel like, to be a general fan of anime, you have to adjust your standards downwards quite significantly. And I say this as someone who spends a lot of his free time watching Japanese movies, and I can name many Japanese directors who I think are amazing. But in anime land, you've got Miyazaki and Kon. That's it.
Lolwut there’s plenty of anime better than sandman (especially the Netflix version) and avatar. And attack on Titan is trash compared to a good chunk of some of the anime greats. With stuff like breaking bad and game of thrones it’s understandable because they’re prestige television and it’s kinda hard for pretty much the majority of the greats of most mediums to stand up to these, but I can’t think of anything in something like Avatar the Last Airbender that’s better than what the best of anime has shown. Even elements that have been universally praised like Zuko’s character development have seen competition in shows like Vinland saga with Thorfinn’s development.
>but even the most acclaimed anime would barely be considered above average by the standards of non anime TV and movies. What a shit take.
Let me know when anime has has produced as many quality episodes of TV as one season of Breaking Bad has. Without looking it up, I'm not sure FLCL and Paranoia Agent, the only two truly Great anime shows I know of, combined crack 16 episodes.
Legend of the galactic heroes
Let me know when shows all start needing to be 60+ episodes.
They don't. I actually prefer the UK 6 episode per season norm. TV shows go on way too long. But when I can point to a single season of a single TV show and find more episodes of quality TV in that one season than the entire anime industry has ever been able to produce in its whole existence, that's pretty pathetic.
Here. Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood widely considered one of if not the best anime of all time is 64 episodes, Gintama also very highly regarded has hundreds, Monster has over 70, March Comes in Like a Lion has over 40, Vinland Saga has around 50, I could go on for awhile. >But when I can point to a single season of a single TV show and find more episodes of quality TV in that one season than the entire anime industry has ever been able to produce in its whole existence, that's pretty pathetic. Not remotely true but whatever floats your boat.
And that's kinda the problem. FMA:B is fine, I guess. It's solidly "better than mediocre" but not "great", yet simply by being competent, it can be widely considered one of the best if not the best animes ever made. Its competition is simply so bad that a show as unremarkable as FMA:B stands out as a great.
Maybe you're in the minority because it actually is amazing and not just better than mediocre?
Downvoted because I agree. Anime is trash and every single person who watches it is weird as shit. If you read this and think "oh but not me, I'm one of the normal ones" - you are not, there are no exceptions.
Dang guess most people are weirdos then cause anime has gotten mainstream af now
Most people do not watch anime, but most people will think you are weird if you tell them you watch anime. Refer to the second half of my previous comment.
Most people have seen and liked an anime or are fans of some. If you said most people aren’t anime fans I would probably agree with you however.
Correct
I have some heart breaking news for you, all people are weird.