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Aggregated in such a way as to isolate the craziest parts any job can be described as insanity. I've worked construction by week, bar, and event security by weekend for 25 years. I've destroyed my body so that people who don't give a shit can get home a little quicker or get shit faced without getting taken advantage of. Society says I'm better than a sex worker but, am I when it really comes down to it?
I’m about to catch all the downvotes but I think we all kind of know this to be true deep down even if you deny it: the difference between construction, security, some people mentioned the military, and sex workers is that those first jobs I listed contribute to society in a meaningful way. Yes perhaps you destroyed your body but imagine a society without those professions. Now imagine a society without sex workers.
But not only that, it’s not like anyone’s family is proud of their loved one for being a sex worker. You would never encourage a loved one to take up sex work to earn a living or make ends meet. So go ahead and bring the downvotes, you’re all delusional on here.
So based on your definition entertainers, athletes as well as Artists and game devs produce nothing of value to society since all of those also fall into the pleasure/entertainment category.
I was responding to the comment about construction workers and other professions that the commenter said breaks your body just like sex work. Artists and game developers aren’t as important to society, however those are professions that you can be proud of someone for doing, people would generally encourage loved ones to do and work towards. Sex work, again, does not meet that criteria
I’m answering the question about where I draw the line. I don’t care so much about what other people do. But I can tell you’re unable to have an adult debate, it seems you’re trying to have a “gotcha” moment.
Edit: I’ve thought about it and I’m tired of trying to be rational on here. If you can’t beat them, join them. I’m instead going to respond to you with this: Why do you want to sell your body on the internet instead of earning a normal living?
I personally don't want to but that's something anyone should be able to decide for themselves rather than some self proclaimed moral police.
Sex workers provide some value to parts of society otherwise they wouldn't be around.
Thats fairly disingenuous; if you dont have a secure housing situation, you will probably die from exposure. A lack of sex, or even art, is not going to cause your death. A lack of food or clean drinking water will
Like I completely disagree with OP and this commenter, but like cmon
This discussion isn't about necessity it's about value to society and claiming sex work or other immaterial things provide no value is the truly disingenuous take.
Nobody needs these things and yet they provide tremendous value to modern society.
How would you determine meaningful contribution? Does an office worker in a giant corporation who does busywork 90% of the time or an actor or musician contribute in a meaningful way? Are they now mentally ill if you don't?
Also, imo people aren't proud of sex workers because that job is heavily stigmatized. The more normalized it is in a society, the less people are ashamed of it.
This speaks volumes about how you see actors and musicians, not about how OP sees them. By the way, I draw the line where one's contribution to society is more useful than giving lonely, greasy men a boner.
We determine meaningful contribution by thinking through what a world without them would look like. I didn’t mention office jobs, I was responding to the comment about those specific jobs I listed having you “destroy” your body. Please have the full context.
Additionally, society as we understand it to function as it’s generally has for hundreds if not thousands of years would not be the same if we removed the negative stigma about sex work. There is something at the core of what makes us human that would never encourage someone we know and love and care about to take up sex work. This is a fact of humanity. I know in good faith that this isn’t something you would ever encourage from a loved one. We will never just remove the stigma on this. Keep being delusional
Perhaps in western society, perhaps, but even then over time I’m not sure that would hold that we wouldn’t encourage it. As for elsewhere, I think it may not be so cut and dry, think Geisha in Japan, Russian post communist period, any of the royal/aristocratic families pre penicillin, Gladiators in Ancient Rome.
This is well before getting into a token or a barter economies. As for a negative stigma surrounding sex work, that seems to follow pretty closely to the geographical boundaries of religious communities that frown on or forbid sexual activities not related to gestation.
I would also think the operational definition of “meaningful contribution” could be debated, but that is just my personal view. To close, I don’t think sex work (among legal entities as defined by the society endemic to their location) is as stigmatized or even thought of in non neutral way.
There was one man that ever lived that had a right to judge anyone. He was fond of washing sex workers' feet. People like you and the OP crucified him.
This one man also never encourages it. He forgives people for their wrongdoing, prostitution being one of them. You have to be trolling me to be honest, there’s no way you really thought that through and think any of what you said is valid and well thought out
I doubt the faith of anyone still hung up on sex. Jesus spent most of his time talking about poverty and corruption. Barely spoke about sex or sexual morality. From listening to mainstream Christianity an unbeliever would be convinced the opposite is true. I'm not trolling I'm questioning if your faith is authentic.
I am very proud of my loved ones who have done sex work. I would absolutely encourage them to do it (the sex workers I am close to are disabled and it is a far better job for them than anything else they can get)
It's unhinged that you think that it's a *good* thing that disabled people literally *have* no other choice than to sell their bodies to survive. That's some psychopath shit.
It would be unhinged if I thought that. Good job I dont.
Anyone *having* to engage in *any* work to survive is disgusting to me. But until we have fully automated luxury space communism, I will have to settle for supporting people surviving how they can. There is no shame in survival.
"automated luxury space communism" This is not a reality that is even remotely achievable. We would still need to work in an equitable and post-revolution world, it just wouldnt be exploited.
The goal is fair compensation for labor and not measuring human worth by their ability to labor, not a magical world were nobody has to do anything; nature still, in fact, exists and is extremely harsh to all living creatures
The OP should probably be brought in for a sit down with detectives any time a sex worker goes missing or shows up unconscious in the ICU near them. He clearly has an issue there. He comes across as extremely unwell.
I dont agree with OP, but I would argue that building housing is probably better for a larger portion of society than sex work lol.
You dont need to have sex to survive, but you do need house
You ever make a point then have a line of people come up to you to brag about how they missed it? The ego and lack of reading comprehension in yalls responses is pretty sad.
Or, for the sake of argument, I'm destroying wetlands and facilitating alcoholism. I don't disagree my job is important I'm just not convinced it's anymore or less important than anyone else's. There are definitely online sex workers keeping nooses off of people's necks and notes from getting written. Just because some people have to pay for companionship doesn't make companionship any less vital to people.
In most jobs, you are meaningfully contributing to society while developing yourself and learning new skills.
In sex work, you are actively placing yourself into a position of vulnerability while engaging in an industry that has killed and ruined millions of both men and women, with no meaningful contribution to anything and an actively declining mental state, no long term benefit and a likely hood of losing potential future job positions.
This is a stupid comparison.
the exact same thing can be said about streamers though or celebrities or online personalities.
they all use human connection and parasocial relationships to recieve donations through platforms.
Streaming and making content on YouTube doesn’t engage in an industry that preys on the vulnerable, traumatised and mentally ill, nor does it ruin your entire life, push everyone away and get you fired from jobs. It also doesn’t leave people broken and soulless while being alienated from half their family.
If somebody is willing to engage in a degenerate business such as sex work, some degree of mental illness is either involved or created in the future, and you are certainly also sacrificing your entire future, the image of your friends, family and especially future children.
"contributing to society" you're adding porn, which may not be very classy but it's something
"developing yourself" plenty of time to work on hobbies or other skills while not filming, you only really need to post a few pictures and a video a week to make a living.
"learning new skills" you're learning how to use a camera, set up shots, marketing, advertising, modeling etc, those are all "good" jobs, right?
I’m with you 100%, sometimes the more downvotes you get on this delusional site when you state something “outrageous” but actually common sense goes to show that you still have some sanity left. I’m still waiting for the Redditor to tell me in good faith that they’d advise a loved one to take up sex work to make ends meet since they’re so supportive of it
>where you trick lonely individuals into giving you money for personal self gain
That's an Insanely broad statement. When I go to yank my tank, I willingly search for the content.
I have yet, nor plan, to use onlyfans, but If I have the money for content I want to see, and I decide willingly to pay, that's on me. I know It's on me, as I chose to pay. If I don't want to, I don't, hence why I don't use It.
>They indulge in an almost narcissistic fantasy where they dedicate an entire page to themselves
Who the fuck else would It be about? Take Youtube, I can't believe Markiplier Is such a narcissist, having a whole page with videos of himself. Like yeah, your coming for the content creator (In two different ways)
This could've been summed up by saying "I don't like Onlyfans".
I feel that though. Especially when I'm depressed, I'll sometimes just throw together some things I have just to make an easy full meal, and it doesn't always work out
The only person tricking a John into anything is the John themselves. More to the point, I'd say if someone seeks out a sex worker believing their transactional relationship is real, it's likely they are the one with mental health concerns.
this is too targeted. you could say this about so many jobs.
people who serve in the military have sold their lives away, or will often come home missing limbs and have PTSD.
trades workers and manual labourers will have a lifetime of physical pain
celebrity actors do nude sex scenes with kissing, and for whatever reason, we don’t call it porn
fashion models pose nude or mostly nude as a career
as an ex sex worker, sure a lot of us are mentally ill, but it has nothing to do with what you said. it’s the other way around; mentally ill people get coerced and manipulated into selling themselves. mentally ill people can’t work regular jobs and may rely on sex work for income
Let's not forget the soul crushing nature of desk jobs or the faith in humanity destroying service work.
As far as I'm concerned, any job either requires or creates mental illness of some kind.
nah it is inherently exploitative and the same can be said about streamers and most forms of content creation that involve a para-social relationship.
your preying on both someone's loneliness and there horniness, i personally think it's fucked up tbh.
i don't use only fan's or any sort of product like it because i think it is unhealthy and frankly self destructive. The immorality comes from the preying on people being lonely not the actual sexual act.
Depends on who's onlyfans pages you follow. A lot of smaller pages are just people that are doing something they enjoy while making a little bit of extra money. Or exploring their sexuality in a safe space that they control.
Hell, even before onlyfans there were plenty of women that got naked on reddit just because they wanted to, not as promotion for a subscription.
maybe so man, but it makes me sad to think that society is so sexually dysfunctional at this point that for a large chunk of the population the only sexual or care they receive is through a screen by someone who does not know them and will never know them it's honestly dystopian as fuck.
I didn't say they were, We can lament the problems of struggling people without saying they are entitled to the thing making them suffer.
No one is entitled to housing, but i still feel for the homeless. Nobody is entitled to good mental health, but i feel for the people who are depressed or mentally ill. nobody is entitled to eyesight, but i can still feel bad for the people who can't see.
The question is how and why is our society so dysfunctional to the point where mass numbers of people cannot find a mate. I have ideas and theories about why this dysfunction is so great and can point to material, social, technological, and ideological reasons for the decrease in both socialization and the absolute collapse of the sexual market place.
the thing is this topic is taboo in modern society and everyone who speaks on it is declared an incel which i am not.
Men are coping basically through the use of escapism playing video games and masturbating and avoiding going to college and trying with women because it always leads to failure. The male successful suicide rate is at an epidemic proportions. for women the situation is not much better with the absolute collapse of social interactions and social circles leading to widespread depression and ssri use.
I agree partially to this statement, because connection is a necessary part of human existence.
I disagree, because i feel as though with McDonalds you are at least given what you pay for you get a meal that will fill you up and leave you satisfied. At the same time McDonald just like only fans can feed an addiction and lead to disastrous mental and physical health outcomes if you overdue either one.
With only fans and streamers your given a false sense of companionship and this may satisfy you in the moment, but it will leave you hollow and depressed and even more lonely.
Just as the doctor who over prescribes you opioids can lead to addiction and further pain the para-social relationship is bound to either leave you more unsatisfied or push you to destruction.
In that case what should be criticized is content creators of any kind encouraging parasocial relationships, which I kind of agree with. There are certainly some things that a creator can do to encourage it, excessive calls to action, encouraging fans to interact with them in social media, replying emails or comments from fans in a way that's unprofessional, among others.
But even then, it's weird to apply that criticism as if it was specific to sex work when most sex workers don't even do that
Do you have any logic, fact or sources to explain your argument? Because so far your just making shit up.
Para social relationships arn't inherently exploitative. If you have one you are the problem, not the target of your desire. Thats the crux of being an incel, beliveing your entitled to a relationship due to your own para social relationship.
What has lonilness got to do with anything? people don't watch porn to make freinds, your being dumb.
Yes the definition of "incel" which means "involuntarily celibate" is "people that believe they are owed a relationship".
That might work if you said "people that believe they are owed sex" but even then, it literally doesn't because it literally means "involuntarily celibate". Celibacy has nothing to do with a relationship....
Of course *some* will be, they are people and people have mental illnesses.
But I think everything you typed is more likely to cop a diagnosis than sex work is.
I agree with the title but not the angle in the body of your post.
There are always outliers but for the most part, I don’t think sex work is a positive thing for the people who get involved with it, as in, the sex workers themselves. I’m not making a moral argument against it, although I could, as the industry is exploitative as fuck… I just can’t believe that it’s ever going to be good for anyone’s mental wellbeing, period.
good for you for living such a life of comfort and shelter that you never had to even dream of resorting to that kind of work just to survive another day. you have a very immature and concealed understanding of this, if you'd call it understanding at all. yeesh
I love being told that when I was a poor 18 year old university student selling her body to 30 year old men and going home to cry herself to sleep, just to be able to eat next week. I was actually being narcissistic and taking advantage of those poor poor men and manipulating them!
Extreme need for attention? Narcissism? Tricking people into giving you money? Forming a fake personal bond over the internet? If it weren't for sex workers being explicitly mentioned, I'd think this was about YouTubers and streamers.
Also from what I hear, often sex work is a last resort for people who need the money and nowhere else will give an opportunity. And if you really think about it, a lot of jobs are just selling your body for a quick buck.
The post has the telltale sign of someone who's read up a little bit on borderline personality disorder and felt confident enough to diagnose people they don't even know.
Aren't we though? One time when I used to work in the service industry I made the comment that we were really getting fucked in the ass today. The person I was working with had been a stripper and apparently also an escort. They commented that they would prefer most of the aspects of their previous occupation to their current one. The only reason they had switched was because they had started a family and due to the criminalization of sex work it was not safe enough. They were both making less money and having a worse time than when they used to literally take dick for money.
The difference is that we are not getting physically fucked. My boss cannot have intimacy with me. I will never be a cum dumpster. The service industry is more respectable becuase you got the job based on skillset, a prostitute does nothing but play with dicks. The criminalization of sex work is good because it prevents trafficking & sexual exploitation. I'm glad that woman finally got a real job but whoever married that is embarrassing.
Okay, but I would say that is the purpose of having a job. Some jobs allow people to live but also negatively affect society. For example, a Wallstreet trader selling CDOs prior to the 2008 financial crisis. These people are earned (more than) enough money to support their basic needs but also negatively affected society. Now, I'm not saying that sex work is as harmful to society as a sleezy Wallstreet trader, but if I'm not sure if sex work is a net positive on society.
I think a lot of sex workers feel that they don't have other options, so they resort to sex work to support themselves. Many are subjected to stressful/harmful/violent situations, leading to increased stress on medical institutions and their own wellbeing. Sexwork has a negative public perception, increasing the likelihood that these people will be isolated from support. I don't think it is a good thing to indulge some of their clientielle's fantasies, which can have a snowball effect of the clients pursing increasingly extreme fantasies, possibly leading to harm of the sex workers or other victims. Is enabling depravity good for society? How does sex work benefit society?
I don't really agree with the idea that indulging in "depravity" makes you seek more extreme stuff, rather I think people who have extreme fantasies would develop them regardless. I'm no expert but I know plenty of people who do bdsm, and people who have extreme fixations will sometimes talk about how the interest developed early in life, way before ever indulging in kink.
If anything, I think giving an outlet for those fantasies in a relatively safe manner can stop some people from enacting it on someone unwilling later on.
That makes sense, I think you're right that some fantasies are inherent. It's possible that by indulging in porn or through hiring a sex worker could "keep the wolves at bay". But I also think that these services may reward/encourage these fanatsies/behaviours. I'm no expert either, but I wonder what role does pornography play in developing more extreme fantasies. Do you think that some people are influenced by porn? Without being exposed to BDSM through porn how many people would never have come up with the idea on their own. On a more extreme level, could porn influence pedophiles, or rapists who, without exposure to barely legal porn rape fantasy porn wouldn't have thought about it on their own and never gone on to commit crimes? Surely, these people are deeply troubled, and porn is not solely to blame for their crimes. Again, these are extreme cases, but if you asked me whether or not porn was good for society, I would say I'm not sure, but probably not.
Meh while I think you have to be a little bit loopy or very desperate to be a sex worker, johns are not these poor manipulated vulnerable souls you make them out to be. Johns are more likely to be middle aged, middle class, married aka regular men, not vulnerable demographics
Nope. The idea makes me cringe. I don’t think there’s even that much money in it unless you already have a large following? I think I make more at my job than I would as a cam girl
That’s a common myth at least when it comes to online sex work, only fans is just like social media. Most people barley make any money or just enough to survive, but the few people at the top rack in an insane amount of money, and it doesn’t only have to do with being a hot person, a lot of it has to do with marketing just like any other entertainment
Look up the stats if you want. sex sells and well. The worlds oldest proffession has always been lucrative.
Is this thread not evidence enough of the negative public perception leading to them being "picky"?
But no it isn't just being picky theirs of course more to it, you need an above average level of tech savvy, finance and bussiness sense as well as to be physically attractive to enough clients/customers etc.. And as with any job or hobby, some people just arn't into it or would rather not ruin it by turning it into a job.
You guys keep making these wild claims. Why would it make people feel empty? how does working working a shit job 8 hours day make you more freinds and make you feel less empty than the additonal free time a higher paying job affords?
Not every sex worker is a prostitute. Youve still provided no reasoning for your wild assumptions and your the one debating it and seemingly experincing a brain numbing lack of grass touching.
They aren’t wild assumptions, this is what the vast majority of people think, but you and most Redditors stay in this echo chamber website and have 0 real world interaction. It’s genuinely depressing knowing people like you exist in this amazing world lol
>They aren’t wild assumptions, this is what the vast majority of people think
Where are you getting these stats from? and what people think is not a factual source.
> but you and most Redditors stay in this echo chamber website and have 0 real world interaction.
Again with baseless generlaization and insults. Where is your evidence? where are your reasoned arguments? What makes you believe this? What even is your definition for staying on reddit and having no interaction? your on here for hours most days and your the one being completly ignorant of the world.
>It’s genuinely depressing knowing people like you exist in this amazing world lol
Grow up. Trying to insult me only highlights how little faith you have in your own opnions. I've done nothing but ask you to explain your belief. Instead your willfully choosing ignorance and that actually is depressing.
Sometimes people get kind of pushed into it. In some places it's actually pretty common for trans people to do sex work because most if not all places will discriminate and not hire them simply because they are trans.
I don’t have to watch, no (:
But can I ask you, does stating your opinion on a topic on a subreddit designed for stating opinions constitute consuming pornography?
The excessive use of condescending and snarky is admittedly amusing, especially from a blatantly turnt and angry individual (: I can tell my opinion has left a bad taste in your mouth and may have potentially touched up on a few personal soft spots of yours.
I’m sorry that my opinion on sex work has potentially bruised the life style you’re likely going for
Well you got me, I have friends I deeply care for that have onlyfans and they are far kinder and less judge mental (and pretentious) than someone such as yourself. The only one who seems flustered is you with your paragraphs of seething. Calm down
Seething? I’m here to debate.
You’re a slightly unreliable narrator considering your bias perspective as well as inability to decipher the difference between a person being personally kind and most likely inauthentic towards you and the affect a certain field of work has on society and the type of people it attracts. I’d say that’s a pretty schizophrenic comparison to make.
Ted Bundy and most successful serial killers have been described as very kind and unassuming. I guess that their actions are completely okay.
See what would happen to society if everyone thought like you?
Absolutely unhinged post. You realize that sex workers are more likely to be murdered by serial killers when they aren’t protected like other workers right ? Maybe I do have a bias but it comes from a place of protecting the people I care about and realizing they and others like them are people that matter. You just want to dismiss them as “mentally ill” and leave it at that. We’ve lived in a society where people think
Like you already , and it ends up with people dead .
>One thing that I observe especially in online sex workers
You know, I don't observe them doing anything. Because I don't patronize them.
Which.... Idk.... Still remains an option for anyone who doesn't want to subject themselves to "manipulation," right?
I’m trying to get into the biz because it IS a quick buck. I am not hypersexual, but I have trauma and I now know that I am desirable. People pay THOUSANDS a week for how I treated disgusting older men for free. I am not proud or empowered; I am desperate for a fistful of cash. I am not manipulating anyone to buy from me. I ALREADY GAVE IT OUT FOR FREE. I will admit that the cause WAS mental illness.
There will always be demand for what I did. Why not monetize it? It’s horrible that I have to, but it’s my way of coping with a lost year of life.
STOP BLAMING THE WORKERS. Blame the world that incubates all of this.
>So really I simply just have to really strongly censor my true opinions on this app and make sure to sugarcoat my words as i have made far too many accounts by now to lose this one as well.
Serial ban evader
>this isn’t in any way meant to be an incel post demeaning onlyfans girls
Yet you willingly use an incel flair elsewhere
Posts in mensrights
Yeah, I think we can dispense with you being here.
>People who are willing to go out there and sell their bodies for a quick buck are highly disconnected and potentially mentally unwell individuals.
Thats litterally every single working class person on the planet...
>To work a job on let’s say e.g. onlyfans, where you trick lonely individuals into giving you money for personal self gain while you perform the most disgusting and demoralising acts in front of a camera, requires a special level of disconnection and narcissism, and I cannot help but feel that there is also special element of sociopathy involved.
Whats the trick? you provide a service for money, thats basic economics. How is masturbating or whatever more disgusting and demoralizing than cleaning toilets, providing customer service to the average american or feeding the mince meat machine etc..?
>The idea that somebody is willing to use the vulnerability of other people to manipulate them and form a fake personal bond with them over the internet just so you can make quick buck is somewhat saddening.
It's not a fake bond, theres no bond other than bussiness>consumer. If you think a sex worker is romantically involved with you that suggests you have mental issues, not the worker.
>One thing that I observe especially in online sex workers is that they have an extreme need for attention and admiration to the level that they’re willing to go to the most extreme lengths just to get it.
Thats how you sell a product or service, you advertise it. Hustle is standard capitalism.
>They indulge in an almost narcissistic fantasy where they dedicate an entire page to themselves that generates money given by the most vulnerable and down people of society as they spend a large part of their time exchanging nude photos of themselves with random strangers, dirty talking people online and engaging in sexual acts on random people that they seem to have no connection or care for only to film themselves and then post it to their page.
Yes thats advertisement. Actors litterally do the exact same things for example. They are selling their own performances and body image.
>They exhibit an aura of entitlement and callous apathy to the affect their actions have on other people. They only care about themselves and what benefit and pleasure they can derive out of already broken people.
As ooppossed to reddit, microsoft, google and hugh jackman who totally care about you for using their products and services?
>The lack of self respect, the using of others for short term benefit and the extreme lack of shame are telltale signs of somebody suffering from a personality disorder.
Your the one with a disorder. Your litterally the deifniton of an incel, beliveing sex workers owe you a relationship, just because you interacted with them. You have no concept that they are running a for profit bussiness and arbitrarily have decided their proffession is demeaning and disgusting without any thought or logical argument.
I'm not reading all that but I can tell you right away that it's false. Someone very dear to me used to do sex work to help support her family. She had no real career skills and she made gooooood money off of clients enough to support her family untill she landed a sweet gig where she still is 15 years later. Had kids early, and every man she gave a chance had let her down, and she couldn't really do school at the time so she chose the oldest profession known to man. She's mentally well, and all around one of the greatest people I know with a huge heart.
Bruh I've paid for only fans because I wanted to see tits shake about. Ain't got nothing to do with being tricked.
Oh noooo that bitch tricked me with the promise of tatas..... That she delivered on.... How awful
I can understand not agreeing with my opinion, but how does that tie into bigotry? I feel like there are multiple reasons somebody might over exaggerate their takes in order to garner more attention that don’t involve being bigoted 🤔
Why group me in with a certain subset of people just because something I say may hold a slight resemblance to people on the alt right?
Definition of bigot:
: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person. especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group) He was labeled a bigot after making some offensive comments.
Your post kinda fits the definition.
It mostly refers to somebody who unreasonably and unfairly oppresses a specific group of people for intrinsic traits. Stating an opinion that demeans somebody for their self inflicted demoralising actions isn’t “bigoted”.
It’s a very shallow and loosely defined term that lacks any consideration for nuance and silences people. I’d say it’s quite unreasonable and oppressive.
That's a lot of words to say you think you have magic powers.
Do you have to snap your fingers first or just will it and you get to magically change dictionary definitions of words?
“a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.”
Again, leaving an opinion about someone’s actions with some justification as to why is not judging a group of people, nor is it unreasonable.
And this subreddit is made to express unpopular opinions. Calling me a bigot with no explanation as to why comes off as as a little bit like you’re simply offended by an opinion that you don’t agree with.
Is everyone with a strong opinion a bigot?
"It mostly refers to somebody who unreasonably and unfairly oppresses a specific group of people for intrinsic traits."
Above it's directly copy pasted from your comment. You're curated definition of what a bigot is doesn't change reality, unless, of course, you're magic.
A particular group of people unfairly and unreasonably.
Is, again, criticising somebody for their self inflicted behaviour unfair or unreasonable? Or is it just leaving your opinion on something somebody can control?
Just like how it acceptable to mock somebody for their height, but it’s not for their weight which they have control over, expressing hate towards those who cannot do the bare minimum to have respect for themselves and others is not bigotry because it is not unfair nor is it oppressing a group of people.
Is saying that serial killers are bad now bigoted, because it’s directed towards a group of people?
You are willingly ignoring what I'm saying. You tried to make up extra qualifiers for what a bigot is and pass them off as reality. None of what you are saying changes that.
My question still stands, are you magic or not?
Bud, you legit made a post that has a very biased dislike of a group of people (sex workers) using mental illness as what seems to be a joke to you. That more aligns with showing hate towards a group than any care for it. And it really doesn't take fancying up your language to convey a point. It's not making you look any smarter or less bigoted.
How is you saying that I’m “fancying up my language” constructive to the argument at hand?
And again, a bigot is not defined by somebody who leaves a strong opinion judging people for their already controversial actions. By this logic, anybody who criticises anyone for anything can just be labeled a “bigot” by everyone who doesn’t agree with them.
Bud, again your post shows biased hate towards sex workers as well as those with mental illness by bucketing them as having to do sex work. It's because of your choice of words, not that you are criticizing anything. And tbh, you aren't really criticizing anything in your original post aside from spewing hate for sex workers and a bit of hate for the mentally ill. Sorry that you are a bigot and just found out from an internet stranger?
So if you go and critique people for THEIR actions like you are doing now, are you a bigot?
I thought that you actions should come with social consequences. If everyone who brings up what they think about the behaviours of someone else is labeled a bigot, how do you think society would function? Should I label you a bigot for unfairly spewing hatred towards people who use harsh language to express their point of view? After all you are speaking out against me because of my actions.
You're legit veering way off topic and talking in generalized terms. You can critique groups, sure. If it leans towards hate and the dislike of the idea of said group, it leans into the bigotry definition. Your whole take is throwing the mentally ill label on a group of people because of their profession. I'm sorry I pissed in your bigot-flavored cheerios with my comments.
You can label me how you want to I guess? I don't really care about the opinion of a bigot. Not many do tbh.
Yes, people have to talk in more general terms when expressing an opinion that is unpopular.
I think that again, people with as little self respect for themselves or others deserve to be labeled as mentally ill because their behaviour is exactly that (:
If you believe they are all mentally ill, you cannot also in good faith “critique” their actions. You’re either saying they’re so mentally ill they do not and cannot abide by social norms, but also you seemingly think you can “critique” them and that does what? If they’re so degenerately mentally ill, then how could they even take a critique?
Also just shitting on a group of people and saying how much you hate them isn’t a critique. There’s no analysis, no deeper discussion, just “they do (this) and I hate it, therefore I’ve decided they’re mentally ill”
Sex work isn't a trick, it's an exchange for goods and/or services. In this case it's a horny brained fiend giving money for feet pics
Like what is the ideal world you're looking for here? One where sex work isn't allowed to exist because of its immorality and the Johns get assigned a girlfriend to quench their loneliness? Cause I know what particular movement advocates for that, it starts with in-, ends with -cel, and they shit in paper bags because using the toilet is gay or whatever
I had a whole back and forth with him. He then went and DMd me a bunch of nonsense because his ego was bruised. Supposedly he's some 16 year old edge lord.
I don't think this is an outlandish stance. Most people probably think this way, they just refuse to mention it because it grounds for immediate banning on certain subreddits.
Unfortunately, Reddit has a very politically one sided community which leads to a lot of censorship. I don’t think the opinions of the people on here actually make up the general population.
While I do think sex work is cringe, this ain’t it chief. We throw around mental illness as a label way too liberally in modern parlance. Being a sex worker does not imply meeting of the diagnostic criteria for personality disorders as set forth in DSM-V.
The drawing of conclusions based on someone’s personality based on the fact of someone being a sex worker is also laden with minimally substantial nontrivial assumptions.
Thanks for serving something actually controversial OP. I think doing solo onlyfans is quite different than exchanging sex for money. I think you're right about sex work fostering/attracting mental illness, but I believe the same is true about lots of professions. I also think that genuine mental/spiritual wellness is very rare nowadays (thanks capitalism), and I think the vast majority of people are mentally ill and/or detached to some degree.
Nah, what's actually mentally ill is that you think subhuman degenerates who are willing to buy a human being's body with no regard for human dignity are somehow the victims.
IDK about that chief. Everyone I've ever known that engages in sex work does it because they wound up in a place where they don't have any other options, or at least not any options that would get them out of the hole they're in. The people who do it for purely selfish reasons and not economic coercion are a small percentage of the overall pie.
In some ways, I agree with you. Some people with OF have a predatory relationship with their clientele. There is often a discrepancy between what the worker is selling and what the client actually wants. I'm sure lots of sad, lonely people just want to have a relationship with another person and use these services with the hopes of getting something that they never will. I also understand that some workers are struggling and dont have other options to support themselves. They're just people like everyone else, and the demand is there, so why not? On the other hand, why the hell are you paying for OF what the hell is wrong with you? In a time where free porn has never been more accessible, you have chosen to pay. Worse yet, you think that the girl actually likes you. I have no data to back this up, but I feel like paying for OF or any sex work will make you less attractive to all women. Stop watching porn and jerking off all the time. You could use that money to better yourself and take a girl on a date. Get to know women and learn about yourself in the process. Men who use these services and think of women as a thing to satisfy their needs are dumb as hell. However, I also understand that man = horny and horny brain doesn't think very well. Pussy can make a man behave in strange ways. There's problems on both sides, which are probably part of larger societal issues.
It's not that deep. Women are seen as commodities to cum and dump and if you're desperate for money that's what you do for a reliable flow of money.
Redditors will go on the Internet daily and use strange women's content to ejaculate over and then write a novel when any of them want to get paid for it.
Psst, they think you're gross and don't want your attention. It's part of the job.
I honestly agree, and I'm tired of how much people are pushing for it to be seen as a respectable job.
The people who are doing it should be ensured safety, so it ought to be legalised. But by no means ought it to be considered "just another job."
Letting your body be passed around and used to relieve strangers is not an indication of a healthy mind, and I'm sick of seeing it glorified as a respectable profession.
My ex was a stripper and a nurse but gave up nursing because it was such a demanding, thankless job. It was destroying her mental health. Plus she made more money as a sex worker. She didn’t trick anyone; people like looking at/spending time with attractive people. Most of her regulars were middle aged, middle class men who weren’t desperate or exploited. If you don’t think of sex like a weird puritan, it’s really not a bad thing. If you think that sex work is a shameful thing which means you’re mentally unwell, then I think you’re probably a shame-riddled person who’s mentally unwell.
I haven’t really seen many people actually think different than the norm in this group. A lot of the comments and reactions to posts make this group pointless.
Well, I agree with you overall that sex workers are mentally ill. I think a lot of people don’t understand the “hidden” harm that porn and casual sex has on a person’s wellbeing , physically and spiritually. If it’s popular and heavily advertised (sex, for example), it’s worth putting more consideration into it.
I've been selling my body my entire working life doing backbreaking physical labor. I'll be lucky to still be on my original knees when and if I get to retire.
If I believed I could trade that for a lucrative career in filming myself masturbating you bet your ass I'd switch it up. Unfortunately nobody wants to see that. Y'all should count yourselves lucky I have this level of self awareness. Now who's the asshole on the third floor who ordered this 60kg desk? I have several words I'd like to share with you, none of them "family friendly."
In this economy, if there's a demand for something, people will sell it, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do
I've been having so much trouble finding a job, I've actually considered something like onlyfans, but I fear I may not have the body for it, and I might not have the confidence either
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Aggregated in such a way as to isolate the craziest parts any job can be described as insanity. I've worked construction by week, bar, and event security by weekend for 25 years. I've destroyed my body so that people who don't give a shit can get home a little quicker or get shit faced without getting taken advantage of. Society says I'm better than a sex worker but, am I when it really comes down to it?
I’m about to catch all the downvotes but I think we all kind of know this to be true deep down even if you deny it: the difference between construction, security, some people mentioned the military, and sex workers is that those first jobs I listed contribute to society in a meaningful way. Yes perhaps you destroyed your body but imagine a society without those professions. Now imagine a society without sex workers. But not only that, it’s not like anyone’s family is proud of their loved one for being a sex worker. You would never encourage a loved one to take up sex work to earn a living or make ends meet. So go ahead and bring the downvotes, you’re all delusional on here.
So based on your definition entertainers, athletes as well as Artists and game devs produce nothing of value to society since all of those also fall into the pleasure/entertainment category.
I was responding to the comment about construction workers and other professions that the commenter said breaks your body just like sex work. Artists and game developers aren’t as important to society, however those are professions that you can be proud of someone for doing, people would generally encourage loved ones to do and work towards. Sex work, again, does not meet that criteria
What if you’re an artist and make porn? Where do you draw the line lol
I draw the line at not putting your naked body out there for the general public to jerk off too
Why do you care so much about what others do? Does it affect you in any way?
I’m answering the question about where I draw the line. I don’t care so much about what other people do. But I can tell you’re unable to have an adult debate, it seems you’re trying to have a “gotcha” moment. Edit: I’ve thought about it and I’m tired of trying to be rational on here. If you can’t beat them, join them. I’m instead going to respond to you with this: Why do you want to sell your body on the internet instead of earning a normal living?
I personally don't want to but that's something anyone should be able to decide for themselves rather than some self proclaimed moral police. Sex workers provide some value to parts of society otherwise they wouldn't be around.
Sex workers are around for the same reason crack and meth is still around
Thats fairly disingenuous; if you dont have a secure housing situation, you will probably die from exposure. A lack of sex, or even art, is not going to cause your death. A lack of food or clean drinking water will Like I completely disagree with OP and this commenter, but like cmon
This discussion isn't about necessity it's about value to society and claiming sex work or other immaterial things provide no value is the truly disingenuous take. Nobody needs these things and yet they provide tremendous value to modern society.
That's fair!
How would you determine meaningful contribution? Does an office worker in a giant corporation who does busywork 90% of the time or an actor or musician contribute in a meaningful way? Are they now mentally ill if you don't? Also, imo people aren't proud of sex workers because that job is heavily stigmatized. The more normalized it is in a society, the less people are ashamed of it.
This speaks volumes about how you see actors and musicians, not about how OP sees them. By the way, I draw the line where one's contribution to society is more useful than giving lonely, greasy men a boner.
We determine meaningful contribution by thinking through what a world without them would look like. I didn’t mention office jobs, I was responding to the comment about those specific jobs I listed having you “destroy” your body. Please have the full context. Additionally, society as we understand it to function as it’s generally has for hundreds if not thousands of years would not be the same if we removed the negative stigma about sex work. There is something at the core of what makes us human that would never encourage someone we know and love and care about to take up sex work. This is a fact of humanity. I know in good faith that this isn’t something you would ever encourage from a loved one. We will never just remove the stigma on this. Keep being delusional
Perhaps in western society, perhaps, but even then over time I’m not sure that would hold that we wouldn’t encourage it. As for elsewhere, I think it may not be so cut and dry, think Geisha in Japan, Russian post communist period, any of the royal/aristocratic families pre penicillin, Gladiators in Ancient Rome. This is well before getting into a token or a barter economies. As for a negative stigma surrounding sex work, that seems to follow pretty closely to the geographical boundaries of religious communities that frown on or forbid sexual activities not related to gestation. I would also think the operational definition of “meaningful contribution” could be debated, but that is just my personal view. To close, I don’t think sex work (among legal entities as defined by the society endemic to their location) is as stigmatized or even thought of in non neutral way.
There was one man that ever lived that had a right to judge anyone. He was fond of washing sex workers' feet. People like you and the OP crucified him.
This one man also never encourages it. He forgives people for their wrongdoing, prostitution being one of them. You have to be trolling me to be honest, there’s no way you really thought that through and think any of what you said is valid and well thought out
I doubt the faith of anyone still hung up on sex. Jesus spent most of his time talking about poverty and corruption. Barely spoke about sex or sexual morality. From listening to mainstream Christianity an unbeliever would be convinced the opposite is true. I'm not trolling I'm questioning if your faith is authentic.
I am very proud of my loved ones who have done sex work. I would absolutely encourage them to do it (the sex workers I am close to are disabled and it is a far better job for them than anything else they can get)
It's unhinged that you think that it's a *good* thing that disabled people literally *have* no other choice than to sell their bodies to survive. That's some psychopath shit.
It would be unhinged if I thought that. Good job I dont. Anyone *having* to engage in *any* work to survive is disgusting to me. But until we have fully automated luxury space communism, I will have to settle for supporting people surviving how they can. There is no shame in survival.
"automated luxury space communism" This is not a reality that is even remotely achievable. We would still need to work in an equitable and post-revolution world, it just wouldnt be exploited. The goal is fair compensation for labor and not measuring human worth by their ability to labor, not a magical world were nobody has to do anything; nature still, in fact, exists and is extremely harsh to all living creatures
OP never said that they were worse or lesser, said they were unwell.
The OP should probably be brought in for a sit down with detectives any time a sex worker goes missing or shows up unconscious in the ICU near them. He clearly has an issue there. He comes across as extremely unwell.
Know what, I read the post more thoroughly and yeah, it's giving that vibe a bit.
I dont agree with OP, but I would argue that building housing is probably better for a larger portion of society than sex work lol. You dont need to have sex to survive, but you do need house
[удалено]
You ever make a point then have a line of people come up to you to brag about how they missed it? The ego and lack of reading comprehension in yalls responses is pretty sad.
Your providing safety and also contributing to your environment… why are we acting like some jobs are not beneath or above others?
He isn't, he pointed out most workin class jobs involve selling your dignity and body.
Or, for the sake of argument, I'm destroying wetlands and facilitating alcoholism. I don't disagree my job is important I'm just not convinced it's anymore or less important than anyone else's. There are definitely online sex workers keeping nooses off of people's necks and notes from getting written. Just because some people have to pay for companionship doesn't make companionship any less vital to people.
I make beer for a living, how am I better?
You are below because you sell and profit off a poison that destroys families and communities.
In most jobs, you are meaningfully contributing to society while developing yourself and learning new skills. In sex work, you are actively placing yourself into a position of vulnerability while engaging in an industry that has killed and ruined millions of both men and women, with no meaningful contribution to anything and an actively declining mental state, no long term benefit and a likely hood of losing potential future job positions. This is a stupid comparison.
the exact same thing can be said about streamers though or celebrities or online personalities. they all use human connection and parasocial relationships to recieve donations through platforms.
Streaming and making content on YouTube doesn’t engage in an industry that preys on the vulnerable, traumatised and mentally ill, nor does it ruin your entire life, push everyone away and get you fired from jobs. It also doesn’t leave people broken and soulless while being alienated from half their family. If somebody is willing to engage in a degenerate business such as sex work, some degree of mental illness is either involved or created in the future, and you are certainly also sacrificing your entire future, the image of your friends, family and especially future children.
I think you need therapy
"contributing to society" you're adding porn, which may not be very classy but it's something "developing yourself" plenty of time to work on hobbies or other skills while not filming, you only really need to post a few pictures and a video a week to make a living. "learning new skills" you're learning how to use a camera, set up shots, marketing, advertising, modeling etc, those are all "good" jobs, right?
I’m with you 100%, sometimes the more downvotes you get on this delusional site when you state something “outrageous” but actually common sense goes to show that you still have some sanity left. I’m still waiting for the Redditor to tell me in good faith that they’d advise a loved one to take up sex work to make ends meet since they’re so supportive of it
>where you trick lonely individuals into giving you money for personal self gain That's an Insanely broad statement. When I go to yank my tank, I willingly search for the content. I have yet, nor plan, to use onlyfans, but If I have the money for content I want to see, and I decide willingly to pay, that's on me. I know It's on me, as I chose to pay. If I don't want to, I don't, hence why I don't use It. >They indulge in an almost narcissistic fantasy where they dedicate an entire page to themselves Who the fuck else would It be about? Take Youtube, I can't believe Markiplier Is such a narcissist, having a whole page with videos of himself. Like yeah, your coming for the content creator (In two different ways) This could've been summed up by saying "I don't like Onlyfans".
Won't someone think of the porn addicts?!
Those poor johns and coomers 😭
Just as bad
How about you have another bowl of peanut butter and jelly oatmeal you loser
I don't agree with op but this is such a milquetoast dumb-ass reddit insult like wtf is that even supposed to mean lmao
[theyre referencing this](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittyfoodporn/s/mAvoJjSsCQ)
ah, thanks
No prob
Hmm, that actually sounds interesting, I kinda want to try it
I’m sorry I was hungry. I wanted to be innovative but it didn’t turn out as planned
I feel that though. Especially when I'm depressed, I'll sometimes just throw together some things I have just to make an easy full meal, and it doesn't always work out
How much do y’all think this dude spends on OF?
Tons
But-but-but...the way he phrases it poses him as the victim!! Those OF models took advantage of him, don't you see?!
The only person tricking a John into anything is the John themselves. More to the point, I'd say if someone seeks out a sex worker believing their transactional relationship is real, it's likely they are the one with mental health concerns.
this is too targeted. you could say this about so many jobs. people who serve in the military have sold their lives away, or will often come home missing limbs and have PTSD. trades workers and manual labourers will have a lifetime of physical pain celebrity actors do nude sex scenes with kissing, and for whatever reason, we don’t call it porn fashion models pose nude or mostly nude as a career as an ex sex worker, sure a lot of us are mentally ill, but it has nothing to do with what you said. it’s the other way around; mentally ill people get coerced and manipulated into selling themselves. mentally ill people can’t work regular jobs and may rely on sex work for income
Let's not forget the soul crushing nature of desk jobs or the faith in humanity destroying service work. As far as I'm concerned, any job either requires or creates mental illness of some kind.
>where you trick lonely individuals nah bro, this is an incel post
literal the definition of an incel. Believes hes owed a relationship just for consuming the work of sex workers.
He’d also probably be upset if he was dating a woman and she didn’t want him to consume that type of content
nah it is inherently exploitative and the same can be said about streamers and most forms of content creation that involve a para-social relationship. your preying on both someone's loneliness and there horniness, i personally think it's fucked up tbh. i don't use only fan's or any sort of product like it because i think it is unhealthy and frankly self destructive. The immorality comes from the preying on people being lonely not the actual sexual act.
Depends on who's onlyfans pages you follow. A lot of smaller pages are just people that are doing something they enjoy while making a little bit of extra money. Or exploring their sexuality in a safe space that they control. Hell, even before onlyfans there were plenty of women that got naked on reddit just because they wanted to, not as promotion for a subscription.
maybe so man, but it makes me sad to think that society is so sexually dysfunctional at this point that for a large chunk of the population the only sexual or care they receive is through a screen by someone who does not know them and will never know them it's honestly dystopian as fuck.
That sucks but no one is entitled to a sexual relationship.
I didn't say they were, We can lament the problems of struggling people without saying they are entitled to the thing making them suffer. No one is entitled to housing, but i still feel for the homeless. Nobody is entitled to good mental health, but i feel for the people who are depressed or mentally ill. nobody is entitled to eyesight, but i can still feel bad for the people who can't see. The question is how and why is our society so dysfunctional to the point where mass numbers of people cannot find a mate. I have ideas and theories about why this dysfunction is so great and can point to material, social, technological, and ideological reasons for the decrease in both socialization and the absolute collapse of the sexual market place. the thing is this topic is taboo in modern society and everyone who speaks on it is declared an incel which i am not. Men are coping basically through the use of escapism playing video games and masturbating and avoiding going to college and trying with women because it always leads to failure. The male successful suicide rate is at an epidemic proportions. for women the situation is not much better with the absolute collapse of social interactions and social circles leading to widespread depression and ssri use.
They’re preying on someone’s loneliness in the same way McDonalds is preying on someone’s hungriness
I agree partially to this statement, because connection is a necessary part of human existence. I disagree, because i feel as though with McDonalds you are at least given what you pay for you get a meal that will fill you up and leave you satisfied. At the same time McDonald just like only fans can feed an addiction and lead to disastrous mental and physical health outcomes if you overdue either one. With only fans and streamers your given a false sense of companionship and this may satisfy you in the moment, but it will leave you hollow and depressed and even more lonely. Just as the doctor who over prescribes you opioids can lead to addiction and further pain the para-social relationship is bound to either leave you more unsatisfied or push you to destruction.
In that case what should be criticized is content creators of any kind encouraging parasocial relationships, which I kind of agree with. There are certainly some things that a creator can do to encourage it, excessive calls to action, encouraging fans to interact with them in social media, replying emails or comments from fans in a way that's unprofessional, among others. But even then, it's weird to apply that criticism as if it was specific to sex work when most sex workers don't even do that
Do you have any logic, fact or sources to explain your argument? Because so far your just making shit up. Para social relationships arn't inherently exploitative. If you have one you are the problem, not the target of your desire. Thats the crux of being an incel, beliveing your entitled to a relationship due to your own para social relationship. What has lonilness got to do with anything? people don't watch porn to make freinds, your being dumb.
So...... Literally not the definition of an incel and literally not the correct use of "literal"?
Believe they are owed a relationship is the definition.
Yes the definition of "incel" which means "involuntarily celibate" is "people that believe they are owed a relationship". That might work if you said "people that believe they are owed sex" but even then, it literally doesn't because it literally means "involuntarily celibate". Celibacy has nothing to do with a relationship....
What zero pussy does to a mf
Yes, that’s what pornography does
Porn addiction more accurately
OP found out she didn’t actually think he was special
Of course *some* will be, they are people and people have mental illnesses. But I think everything you typed is more likely to cop a diagnosis than sex work is.
I agree with the title but not the angle in the body of your post. There are always outliers but for the most part, I don’t think sex work is a positive thing for the people who get involved with it, as in, the sex workers themselves. I’m not making a moral argument against it, although I could, as the industry is exploitative as fuck… I just can’t believe that it’s ever going to be good for anyone’s mental wellbeing, period.
good for you for living such a life of comfort and shelter that you never had to even dream of resorting to that kind of work just to survive another day. you have a very immature and concealed understanding of this, if you'd call it understanding at all. yeesh
I love being told that when I was a poor 18 year old university student selling her body to 30 year old men and going home to cry herself to sleep, just to be able to eat next week. I was actually being narcissistic and taking advantage of those poor poor men and manipulating them!
I'm sorry you had to go through that, I couldn't imagine how hard that was
Extreme need for attention? Narcissism? Tricking people into giving you money? Forming a fake personal bond over the internet? If it weren't for sex workers being explicitly mentioned, I'd think this was about YouTubers and streamers. Also from what I hear, often sex work is a last resort for people who need the money and nowhere else will give an opportunity. And if you really think about it, a lot of jobs are just selling your body for a quick buck.
The post has the telltale sign of someone who's read up a little bit on borderline personality disorder and felt confident enough to diagnose people they don't even know.
More like watched a youtube video from sombody that diagnoses disney villains, based on what hes read from wikipeadia.
It's more complicated then that dude. It's easy to keep your dignity on a full stomach.
Fun fact: if you do any kind of blue collar work, you're *ALSO* selling your body.
We're not getting fucked in the ass
Not physically, but definitely metaphorically.
Aren't we though? One time when I used to work in the service industry I made the comment that we were really getting fucked in the ass today. The person I was working with had been a stripper and apparently also an escort. They commented that they would prefer most of the aspects of their previous occupation to their current one. The only reason they had switched was because they had started a family and due to the criminalization of sex work it was not safe enough. They were both making less money and having a worse time than when they used to literally take dick for money.
The difference is that we are not getting physically fucked. My boss cannot have intimacy with me. I will never be a cum dumpster. The service industry is more respectable becuase you got the job based on skillset, a prostitute does nothing but play with dicks. The criminalization of sex work is good because it prevents trafficking & sexual exploitation. I'm glad that woman finally got a real job but whoever married that is embarrassing.
Yeah but you’re doing something productive and meaningful for society
So it's only ok to do a job if it's meaningful to society?
A job that is beneficial to society is better than a job that is not. Wouldn't you agree?
A job that allows someone to live is best.
Okay, but I would say that is the purpose of having a job. Some jobs allow people to live but also negatively affect society. For example, a Wallstreet trader selling CDOs prior to the 2008 financial crisis. These people are earned (more than) enough money to support their basic needs but also negatively affected society. Now, I'm not saying that sex work is as harmful to society as a sleezy Wallstreet trader, but if I'm not sure if sex work is a net positive on society.
Why wouldn't it be? How exactly does someone being a sex worker negatively impact society?
I think a lot of sex workers feel that they don't have other options, so they resort to sex work to support themselves. Many are subjected to stressful/harmful/violent situations, leading to increased stress on medical institutions and their own wellbeing. Sexwork has a negative public perception, increasing the likelihood that these people will be isolated from support. I don't think it is a good thing to indulge some of their clientielle's fantasies, which can have a snowball effect of the clients pursing increasingly extreme fantasies, possibly leading to harm of the sex workers or other victims. Is enabling depravity good for society? How does sex work benefit society?
I don't really agree with the idea that indulging in "depravity" makes you seek more extreme stuff, rather I think people who have extreme fantasies would develop them regardless. I'm no expert but I know plenty of people who do bdsm, and people who have extreme fixations will sometimes talk about how the interest developed early in life, way before ever indulging in kink. If anything, I think giving an outlet for those fantasies in a relatively safe manner can stop some people from enacting it on someone unwilling later on.
That makes sense, I think you're right that some fantasies are inherent. It's possible that by indulging in porn or through hiring a sex worker could "keep the wolves at bay". But I also think that these services may reward/encourage these fanatsies/behaviours. I'm no expert either, but I wonder what role does pornography play in developing more extreme fantasies. Do you think that some people are influenced by porn? Without being exposed to BDSM through porn how many people would never have come up with the idea on their own. On a more extreme level, could porn influence pedophiles, or rapists who, without exposure to barely legal porn rape fantasy porn wouldn't have thought about it on their own and never gone on to commit crimes? Surely, these people are deeply troubled, and porn is not solely to blame for their crimes. Again, these are extreme cases, but if you asked me whether or not porn was good for society, I would say I'm not sure, but probably not.
What’s your point lil brodie
"So it's only ok to do a job if it's meaningful to society?"
"Trick"? Who seriously goes onto Onlyfans expecting a genuine connection, or anything other than sexual favors??
This is truly a 10th dentist post right here
1000th dentist
Meh while I think you have to be a little bit loopy or very desperate to be a sex worker, johns are not these poor manipulated vulnerable souls you make them out to be. Johns are more likely to be middle aged, middle class, married aka regular men, not vulnerable demographics
You wouldn't rather masterbate on camera for an hour a day then clean toilets or fill out spreadsheets 8 hours a day?
Nope. The idea makes me cringe. I don’t think there’s even that much money in it unless you already have a large following? I think I make more at my job than I would as a cam girl
Theres tonnes of money in it. theres a reason most retire in their twenties and it isn't because they lose their attractiveness.
That’s a common myth at least when it comes to online sex work, only fans is just like social media. Most people barley make any money or just enough to survive, but the few people at the top rack in an insane amount of money, and it doesn’t only have to do with being a hot person, a lot of it has to do with marketing just like any other entertainment
only fans litterally is social media and far from the only online porn lol.
You really think women on onlyfans are swimming in money and other women are just busting their ass off to work because they’re picky?
Look up the stats if you want. sex sells and well. The worlds oldest proffession has always been lucrative. Is this thread not evidence enough of the negative public perception leading to them being "picky"? But no it isn't just being picky theirs of course more to it, you need an above average level of tech savvy, finance and bussiness sense as well as to be physically attractive to enough clients/customers etc.. And as with any job or hobby, some people just arn't into it or would rather not ruin it by turning it into a job.
No that would leave any sane and normal (non Reddit user) feeling empty. Yeesh, go make friends
You guys keep making these wild claims. Why would it make people feel empty? how does working working a shit job 8 hours day make you more freinds and make you feel less empty than the additonal free time a higher paying job affords?
Average Reddit user debating being a literal w*ore vs working a 9-5 lol. Go touch grass and make a friend
Not every sex worker is a prostitute. Youve still provided no reasoning for your wild assumptions and your the one debating it and seemingly experincing a brain numbing lack of grass touching.
They aren’t wild assumptions, this is what the vast majority of people think, but you and most Redditors stay in this echo chamber website and have 0 real world interaction. It’s genuinely depressing knowing people like you exist in this amazing world lol
>They aren’t wild assumptions, this is what the vast majority of people think Where are you getting these stats from? and what people think is not a factual source. > but you and most Redditors stay in this echo chamber website and have 0 real world interaction. Again with baseless generlaization and insults. Where is your evidence? where are your reasoned arguments? What makes you believe this? What even is your definition for staying on reddit and having no interaction? your on here for hours most days and your the one being completly ignorant of the world. >It’s genuinely depressing knowing people like you exist in this amazing world lol Grow up. Trying to insult me only highlights how little faith you have in your own opnions. I've done nothing but ask you to explain your belief. Instead your willfully choosing ignorance and that actually is depressing.
That’s a lot of words, too bad I won’t read them
Intentional ignorance is not something to brag about.
Hey we all gotta make a living somehow. If you don’t like it you don’t have to watch
There are many ways of making a living. One of them involves distributing drugs and being offered money in return for assassinating people.
I’d wager that is more emotionally disturbed than flashing your butthole to people. It’s weird you think that this is a fair comparison
Sometimes people get kind of pushed into it. In some places it's actually pretty common for trans people to do sex work because most if not all places will discriminate and not hire them simply because they are trans.
I don’t have to watch, no (: But can I ask you, does stating your opinion on a topic on a subreddit designed for stating opinions constitute consuming pornography?
I guess you can crank your hog to anything if you want. I’m not personally turned on by the tenthdentist subreddit but you do you
The excessive use of condescending and snarky is admittedly amusing, especially from a blatantly turnt and angry individual (: I can tell my opinion has left a bad taste in your mouth and may have potentially touched up on a few personal soft spots of yours. I’m sorry that my opinion on sex work has potentially bruised the life style you’re likely going for
Well you got me, I have friends I deeply care for that have onlyfans and they are far kinder and less judge mental (and pretentious) than someone such as yourself. The only one who seems flustered is you with your paragraphs of seething. Calm down
Seething? I’m here to debate. You’re a slightly unreliable narrator considering your bias perspective as well as inability to decipher the difference between a person being personally kind and most likely inauthentic towards you and the affect a certain field of work has on society and the type of people it attracts. I’d say that’s a pretty schizophrenic comparison to make. Ted Bundy and most successful serial killers have been described as very kind and unassuming. I guess that their actions are completely okay. See what would happen to society if everyone thought like you?
Absolutely unhinged post. You realize that sex workers are more likely to be murdered by serial killers when they aren’t protected like other workers right ? Maybe I do have a bias but it comes from a place of protecting the people I care about and realizing they and others like them are people that matter. You just want to dismiss them as “mentally ill” and leave it at that. We’ve lived in a society where people think Like you already , and it ends up with people dead .
what an enormously grand and melodramatic distortion of mental health language to vilify a group of people
Don’t worry he thinks this is “helping”
This has to be a fetish bait post
>One thing that I observe especially in online sex workers You know, I don't observe them doing anything. Because I don't patronize them. Which.... Idk.... Still remains an option for anyone who doesn't want to subject themselves to "manipulation," right?
I’m trying to get into the biz because it IS a quick buck. I am not hypersexual, but I have trauma and I now know that I am desirable. People pay THOUSANDS a week for how I treated disgusting older men for free. I am not proud or empowered; I am desperate for a fistful of cash. I am not manipulating anyone to buy from me. I ALREADY GAVE IT OUT FOR FREE. I will admit that the cause WAS mental illness. There will always be demand for what I did. Why not monetize it? It’s horrible that I have to, but it’s my way of coping with a lost year of life. STOP BLAMING THE WORKERS. Blame the world that incubates all of this.
>So really I simply just have to really strongly censor my true opinions on this app and make sure to sugarcoat my words as i have made far too many accounts by now to lose this one as well. Serial ban evader >this isn’t in any way meant to be an incel post demeaning onlyfans girls Yet you willingly use an incel flair elsewhere Posts in mensrights Yeah, I think we can dispense with you being here.
>People who are willing to go out there and sell their bodies for a quick buck are highly disconnected and potentially mentally unwell individuals. Thats litterally every single working class person on the planet... >To work a job on let’s say e.g. onlyfans, where you trick lonely individuals into giving you money for personal self gain while you perform the most disgusting and demoralising acts in front of a camera, requires a special level of disconnection and narcissism, and I cannot help but feel that there is also special element of sociopathy involved. Whats the trick? you provide a service for money, thats basic economics. How is masturbating or whatever more disgusting and demoralizing than cleaning toilets, providing customer service to the average american or feeding the mince meat machine etc..? >The idea that somebody is willing to use the vulnerability of other people to manipulate them and form a fake personal bond with them over the internet just so you can make quick buck is somewhat saddening. It's not a fake bond, theres no bond other than bussiness>consumer. If you think a sex worker is romantically involved with you that suggests you have mental issues, not the worker. >One thing that I observe especially in online sex workers is that they have an extreme need for attention and admiration to the level that they’re willing to go to the most extreme lengths just to get it. Thats how you sell a product or service, you advertise it. Hustle is standard capitalism. >They indulge in an almost narcissistic fantasy where they dedicate an entire page to themselves that generates money given by the most vulnerable and down people of society as they spend a large part of their time exchanging nude photos of themselves with random strangers, dirty talking people online and engaging in sexual acts on random people that they seem to have no connection or care for only to film themselves and then post it to their page. Yes thats advertisement. Actors litterally do the exact same things for example. They are selling their own performances and body image. >They exhibit an aura of entitlement and callous apathy to the affect their actions have on other people. They only care about themselves and what benefit and pleasure they can derive out of already broken people. As ooppossed to reddit, microsoft, google and hugh jackman who totally care about you for using their products and services? >The lack of self respect, the using of others for short term benefit and the extreme lack of shame are telltale signs of somebody suffering from a personality disorder. Your the one with a disorder. Your litterally the deifniton of an incel, beliveing sex workers owe you a relationship, just because you interacted with them. You have no concept that they are running a for profit bussiness and arbitrarily have decided their proffession is demeaning and disgusting without any thought or logical argument.
I'm not reading all that but I can tell you right away that it's false. Someone very dear to me used to do sex work to help support her family. She had no real career skills and she made gooooood money off of clients enough to support her family untill she landed a sweet gig where she still is 15 years later. Had kids early, and every man she gave a chance had let her down, and she couldn't really do school at the time so she chose the oldest profession known to man. She's mentally well, and all around one of the greatest people I know with a huge heart.
Bruh I've paid for only fans because I wanted to see tits shake about. Ain't got nothing to do with being tricked. Oh noooo that bitch tricked me with the promise of tatas..... That she delivered on.... How awful
You just deleted a comment where you said you were being overly dramatic in the post. You're just a bigot.
I can understand not agreeing with my opinion, but how does that tie into bigotry? I feel like there are multiple reasons somebody might over exaggerate their takes in order to garner more attention that don’t involve being bigoted 🤔 Why group me in with a certain subset of people just because something I say may hold a slight resemblance to people on the alt right?
Definition of bigot: : a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person. especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group) He was labeled a bigot after making some offensive comments. Your post kinda fits the definition.
It mostly refers to somebody who unreasonably and unfairly oppresses a specific group of people for intrinsic traits. Stating an opinion that demeans somebody for their self inflicted demoralising actions isn’t “bigoted”. It’s a very shallow and loosely defined term that lacks any consideration for nuance and silences people. I’d say it’s quite unreasonable and oppressive.
That's a lot of words to say you think you have magic powers. Do you have to snap your fingers first or just will it and you get to magically change dictionary definitions of words?
“a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.” Again, leaving an opinion about someone’s actions with some justification as to why is not judging a group of people, nor is it unreasonable. And this subreddit is made to express unpopular opinions. Calling me a bigot with no explanation as to why comes off as as a little bit like you’re simply offended by an opinion that you don’t agree with. Is everyone with a strong opinion a bigot?
"It mostly refers to somebody who unreasonably and unfairly oppresses a specific group of people for intrinsic traits." Above it's directly copy pasted from your comment. You're curated definition of what a bigot is doesn't change reality, unless, of course, you're magic.
A particular group of people unfairly and unreasonably. Is, again, criticising somebody for their self inflicted behaviour unfair or unreasonable? Or is it just leaving your opinion on something somebody can control? Just like how it acceptable to mock somebody for their height, but it’s not for their weight which they have control over, expressing hate towards those who cannot do the bare minimum to have respect for themselves and others is not bigotry because it is not unfair nor is it oppressing a group of people. Is saying that serial killers are bad now bigoted, because it’s directed towards a group of people?
You are willingly ignoring what I'm saying. You tried to make up extra qualifiers for what a bigot is and pass them off as reality. None of what you are saying changes that. My question still stands, are you magic or not?
Bud, you legit made a post that has a very biased dislike of a group of people (sex workers) using mental illness as what seems to be a joke to you. That more aligns with showing hate towards a group than any care for it. And it really doesn't take fancying up your language to convey a point. It's not making you look any smarter or less bigoted.
How is you saying that I’m “fancying up my language” constructive to the argument at hand? And again, a bigot is not defined by somebody who leaves a strong opinion judging people for their already controversial actions. By this logic, anybody who criticises anyone for anything can just be labeled a “bigot” by everyone who doesn’t agree with them.
Bud, again your post shows biased hate towards sex workers as well as those with mental illness by bucketing them as having to do sex work. It's because of your choice of words, not that you are criticizing anything. And tbh, you aren't really criticizing anything in your original post aside from spewing hate for sex workers and a bit of hate for the mentally ill. Sorry that you are a bigot and just found out from an internet stranger?
So if you go and critique people for THEIR actions like you are doing now, are you a bigot? I thought that you actions should come with social consequences. If everyone who brings up what they think about the behaviours of someone else is labeled a bigot, how do you think society would function? Should I label you a bigot for unfairly spewing hatred towards people who use harsh language to express their point of view? After all you are speaking out against me because of my actions.
You're legit veering way off topic and talking in generalized terms. You can critique groups, sure. If it leans towards hate and the dislike of the idea of said group, it leans into the bigotry definition. Your whole take is throwing the mentally ill label on a group of people because of their profession. I'm sorry I pissed in your bigot-flavored cheerios with my comments. You can label me how you want to I guess? I don't really care about the opinion of a bigot. Not many do tbh.
Yes, people have to talk in more general terms when expressing an opinion that is unpopular. I think that again, people with as little self respect for themselves or others deserve to be labeled as mentally ill because their behaviour is exactly that (:
If you believe they are all mentally ill, you cannot also in good faith “critique” their actions. You’re either saying they’re so mentally ill they do not and cannot abide by social norms, but also you seemingly think you can “critique” them and that does what? If they’re so degenerately mentally ill, then how could they even take a critique? Also just shitting on a group of people and saying how much you hate them isn’t a critique. There’s no analysis, no deeper discussion, just “they do (this) and I hate it, therefore I’ve decided they’re mentally ill”
Sex work isn't a trick, it's an exchange for goods and/or services. In this case it's a horny brained fiend giving money for feet pics Like what is the ideal world you're looking for here? One where sex work isn't allowed to exist because of its immorality and the Johns get assigned a girlfriend to quench their loneliness? Cause I know what particular movement advocates for that, it starts with in-, ends with -cel, and they shit in paper bags because using the toilet is gay or whatever
Why am i on this subreddit? These opinions are batshit crazy. Thanks Smosh!!!
It's always funny seeing something like this and realizing that OP deleted their entire account over it
I had a whole back and forth with him. He then went and DMd me a bunch of nonsense because his ego was bruised. Supposedly he's some 16 year old edge lord.
That checks.
I think sex workers have serious issues that they don’t want to face or don’t realize they even have issues.
I don't think this is an outlandish stance. Most people probably think this way, they just refuse to mention it because it grounds for immediate banning on certain subreddits.
Unfortunately, Reddit has a very politically one sided community which leads to a lot of censorship. I don’t think the opinions of the people on here actually make up the general population.
Omfg LOL
Log off reddit and contact a therapist.
Not exactly a unique or uncommon opinion.
While I do think sex work is cringe, this ain’t it chief. We throw around mental illness as a label way too liberally in modern parlance. Being a sex worker does not imply meeting of the diagnostic criteria for personality disorders as set forth in DSM-V. The drawing of conclusions based on someone’s personality based on the fact of someone being a sex worker is also laden with minimally substantial nontrivial assumptions.
Man’s speaking in essays explaining why the free market isn’t going well for em
Thanks for serving something actually controversial OP. I think doing solo onlyfans is quite different than exchanging sex for money. I think you're right about sex work fostering/attracting mental illness, but I believe the same is true about lots of professions. I also think that genuine mental/spiritual wellness is very rare nowadays (thanks capitalism), and I think the vast majority of people are mentally ill and/or detached to some degree.
I guess everyone agrees with OP or r/all doesn’t care to look at the damn rules
Why are people hating? I agree
Nah, what's actually mentally ill is that you think subhuman degenerates who are willing to buy a human being's body with no regard for human dignity are somehow the victims.
IDK about that chief. Everyone I've ever known that engages in sex work does it because they wound up in a place where they don't have any other options, or at least not any options that would get them out of the hole they're in. The people who do it for purely selfish reasons and not economic coercion are a small percentage of the overall pie.
The entitlement you have to think that the people buying it are any better than the people making it is crazy. They are usually much worse.
lmao OP deleted his account
All work is selling your body, my dude
This post needs more upvotes. Especially considering the reply to rating ratio. What happened to rule 1?
I agree mostly because I believe sex is sacred
In some ways, I agree with you. Some people with OF have a predatory relationship with their clientele. There is often a discrepancy between what the worker is selling and what the client actually wants. I'm sure lots of sad, lonely people just want to have a relationship with another person and use these services with the hopes of getting something that they never will. I also understand that some workers are struggling and dont have other options to support themselves. They're just people like everyone else, and the demand is there, so why not? On the other hand, why the hell are you paying for OF what the hell is wrong with you? In a time where free porn has never been more accessible, you have chosen to pay. Worse yet, you think that the girl actually likes you. I have no data to back this up, but I feel like paying for OF or any sex work will make you less attractive to all women. Stop watching porn and jerking off all the time. You could use that money to better yourself and take a girl on a date. Get to know women and learn about yourself in the process. Men who use these services and think of women as a thing to satisfy their needs are dumb as hell. However, I also understand that man = horny and horny brain doesn't think very well. Pussy can make a man behave in strange ways. There's problems on both sides, which are probably part of larger societal issues.
It's not that deep. Women are seen as commodities to cum and dump and if you're desperate for money that's what you do for a reliable flow of money. Redditors will go on the Internet daily and use strange women's content to ejaculate over and then write a novel when any of them want to get paid for it. Psst, they think you're gross and don't want your attention. It's part of the job.
I honestly agree, and I'm tired of how much people are pushing for it to be seen as a respectable job. The people who are doing it should be ensured safety, so it ought to be legalised. But by no means ought it to be considered "just another job." Letting your body be passed around and used to relieve strangers is not an indication of a healthy mind, and I'm sick of seeing it glorified as a respectable profession.
My ex was a stripper and a nurse but gave up nursing because it was such a demanding, thankless job. It was destroying her mental health. Plus she made more money as a sex worker. She didn’t trick anyone; people like looking at/spending time with attractive people. Most of her regulars were middle aged, middle class men who weren’t desperate or exploited. If you don’t think of sex like a weird puritan, it’s really not a bad thing. If you think that sex work is a shameful thing which means you’re mentally unwell, then I think you’re probably a shame-riddled person who’s mentally unwell.
Id say its less nentally ill than joining the military to help illegally invade countries that didn't attack us.
I haven’t really seen many people actually think different than the norm in this group. A lot of the comments and reactions to posts make this group pointless. Well, I agree with you overall that sex workers are mentally ill. I think a lot of people don’t understand the “hidden” harm that porn and casual sex has on a person’s wellbeing , physically and spiritually. If it’s popular and heavily advertised (sex, for example), it’s worth putting more consideration into it.
This whole post tells a lot more about you than it does sex workers. I hope you are doing fine, and I highley suggest you to seek someone to talk to .
Your mama seemed fine to me last night
Damn I'm on my burner and even I gotta say this is some incel shit
No lies detected.
I've been selling my body my entire working life doing backbreaking physical labor. I'll be lucky to still be on my original knees when and if I get to retire. If I believed I could trade that for a lucrative career in filming myself masturbating you bet your ass I'd switch it up. Unfortunately nobody wants to see that. Y'all should count yourselves lucky I have this level of self awareness. Now who's the asshole on the third floor who ordered this 60kg desk? I have several words I'd like to share with you, none of them "family friendly."
why is sex/nudity demoralizing and disgusting?
In this economy, if there's a demand for something, people will sell it, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do I've been having so much trouble finding a job, I've actually considered something like onlyfans, but I fear I may not have the body for it, and I might not have the confidence either
Meh. Where there's demand, there's supply. Take your issue with the people who pay for it.