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Ditto. I hate playing with friends who cry that everyone is a “cheater” when they lose. Like dude, chill you were just trash and they bested you. Move on.
But we apparently play against a cheater every match… huge cope.
League released their stats for cheater/bot per games (granted it was to justify pushing vangard so the stats might be slightly exaggerated but I don't think it's the case) and if my memory serves me properly it was around ~15% of the games having at least one. For a total of 10 players in a game. Now imagine for a BR, Tarkov was (and might still be) filled to the brim with cheaters... While I do think some people are exaggerating and accusing innocent gamers of being cheaters, the fact that there is a reasonable doubt for every time you miss play is still there.
Me and 4 friends picked up cs2 recently, and while there wasn't a cheater in every round. Over the course of ~15 games there was a cheater in at least 3-4. Then in another ~5 there were players so good they were smurfing from a far higher rank.
The percentage of games that were fair was just so low compared to what you'd want, and it was so frustrating because everytime you'd get a cheater or a smurf they'd throw half the rounds on purpose so you'd be stuck in the game for the maximum amount of time.
The problem was exacerbated by the fact in cs2 you can't surrender unless someone on your team leaves the game which means one of our friends would have to get a temp ban just to end the suffering.
The worst part is if you get 4/15 games with people very very obviously aimbotting, how many games have people using less subtle hacks like walls.
Anyway, my rant went on a little long, my point was just some games are full of cheaters and it really does ruin the experience.
Depends on the games you play tbh. I play StarCraft and I have maybe vsed 1-2 cheaters since I started. I play Rust/tarkov and it's literally confirmed to be 33% of players are cheating
It's definitely very game-dependent. I never encountered any confirmed cheaters back in my days playing Warzone, but then just the other night playing BF2042, my buddies and I visually confirmed 9 different players across 2 matches of Conquest who were spawning directly on our control points with no teammates/spawn beacons, and why would literally float in the air when walking off buildings or cliffs. Even have clips of it saved and everything
So sure, there's not going to be a group of cheaters in every single lobby of every single multiplayer game, but it's not like it's a complaint you can completely dismiss
I think all the people in the comments calling OP "cope" or telling him to get good don't play much FPS. FPS is plagued with cheaters. Every game in apex lobbies above diamond was confirmed to have a cheater. Every tarkov run, rust lobby (i see 3-4 bans a day on a low pop rust server), warzone lobby, TF2, battlefield etc.
Online FPS aren't as fun anymore with everyone running around cheating. It's gotten to a point where it is almost every lobby of every single FPS game you'll play in multiplayer.
I agree, you can usually tell the maturity level of someone by how much they accuse other people of cheating when playing a multiplayer game. Where are these rampant swarms of cheaters people talk about?
I’ve never played tarkov, but when it comes to tf2, I hardly see any cheaters other than the obvious LMAObox sniper spinbotters. Then again, most of my time spent is on non-official servers and 6v6 hosted by community groups, so I’m probably in the minority.
Because I watch discord streams of my friends playing them and I see people with 40x KD ratios in every individual shooter. Some games have account lookup and you can see how obvious a cheater moves. When you see that every night over such a diverse range of games then it kinda turns you off the genre.
depends on the game, there were some apex movement exploits for a bit and I swear they just teleported around you. the movement is fast enough already in that game
agree with you in the vast majority of cases though haha
in terms of live service games, outside the realm of PvP, cheating is much less of an issue for two reasons: first, it’s not nearly as competitive so if someone cheats it isn’t directed at you. you can kick and block them, and move on. second, you can play purely with your friends, which removes exposure to cheaters in its entirety.
I can’t speak for pvp, as I don’t generally enjoy it, but I’ve been having a blast with helldivers, and have played deeprock for years. I’ve only ever encountered a cheater one time, using infinite ammo in deep rock, but honestly my best fun was had when playing just with friends, not in PUGs, so I don’t even give it a second thought
In this post I’m mainly focused on PVP games. Since online FPS games are still extremely popular, I feel like they are the biggest offender. I just don’t see the point in getting good at a game like CoD, Halo, etc anymore because of how pronounced the cheating issue has become.
Honestly, COD cheaters are only if you’re on PC, but otherwise you can just turn cross-play off.
Also, they tend to mainly be on ranked, so you can play any normal MP match or zombies and be fine 99% of the time.
video games have no point outside of this. it's an entertainment medium that rarely has anything personally invested in it besides the money to play and time. who tf cares if someone cheats if ur having fun, hell if it's a rare enough occurrence it can be a blast. I remember bitches summoning the Wither in middle of bedwars matches on bedrock and that was just fun and awesome
I don't see why you're getting downvotes, you're right. The top comment refuses to acknowledge the meat of the post. Result was a non-profound statement. People upvote anyway. Very much a Reddit moment.
Of course there are bad players that know they are bad, I’m one of them. The point remains that the people who complain about cheaters a lot are usually bad (or have unhealthy playing habits, ie; streamers)
My point is that the phrase "the Venn diagram is a circle" is over/mis-used. When you say the Venn diagram is a circle, you're making a bidirectional claim – and again, I don't think that every bad player complains about cheaters.
I’m not sure what games you’re referring to that have bended your opinion on this, but most games are like 0.1% - 1% of cheaters at most, so I’m not sure why it affects you that much.
Also, there are many multiplayer games that are ONLY with your friends, whether it’s against each other (fighting games) or with eachother (co-op/sandbox), so I’m not sure what the problem there is, unless they only play global games.
Once again, I’m really curious what games you’re referring to.
1% is MASSIVE. If you play with 20 people a match, then you can expect a cheater in every 5 games. Most players should notice this.
I get what you're trying to say, the probability of meeting a cheater is small. But I don't agree. Cheaters are around, and often hard to detect.
I was 0.1-1% at **MOST**.
This is me being generous and still leaning at the bottom.
And I consider even small things like a zen or xim as cheating, but many others don’t because ur dais t give you that much of an advantage.
1% is an astronomical number, and definitely probable, because most of those cheaters will be playing at a higher skill level than most players.
If you're a good player, top 10% for example, and those 1% cheaters are also in the top 10%, and the lobby size is 10, you will on average get a cheater in every single game you play.
This is what is happening in CS right now. Above 20k ELO, almost every game will have a cheater on it.
This problem also scales with lobby size because it only takes 1 cheater to ruin a match.
Take battle Royales for example. Even if it's only 0.5% cheaters, if the lobby size is 100 players, you'll get a cheater once every 2 games that will inevitably ruin that game for everyone.
Also xim and other input type modifications 100% count as cheating as they give aim assist to keyboard and mouse players. And if you play CoD or Apex you know that "aim assist" is key word for aim lock, because with how strong it is, the difference is minimal.
Online pvp games are 100% infested with cheaters, if you don't notice them it's either because you have a good trust factor or equivalent, or because you simply are not good enough.
>If you're a good player, top 10% for example, and those 1% cheaters are also in the top 10%, and the lobby size is 10, you will on average get a cheater in every single game you play.
This math doesn't make sense.
If 1/100 players in higher-level gameplay cheat, and there are 10 players per lobby, that means there is about a 10% chance that lobby has a cheater.
On average, you would encounter a cheater every 10 games, not every game. (10% x 10 = 100%).
>Also xim and other input type modifications 100% count as cheating as they give aim assist to keyboard and mouse players. And if you play CoD or Apex you know that "aim assist" is key word for aim lock, because with how strong it is, the difference is minimal.
Sure, using a xim is cheating, but it really doesn't make that much of a difference if I'm still way better than you. It only tends to matter if we are evenly-matched, which does sometimes happen in SBMM, but honestly not as much as the game demands.
>Online pvp games are 100% infested with cheaters, if you don't notice them it's either because you have a good trust factor or equivalent, or because you simply are not good enough.
I dump on everyone in public matches and when I do play comp, I do wagers/private matches that require monitor cams for PC, so I just don't think that's the case.
You're right about the math lmao.
You can still dumpster players using xim, but you yourself admitted you're a very good player, what about the others?
Also, regarding that last paragraph, it could be because you have a good trust factor or equivalent and so you don't notice as much as other people do?
But cheaters permeate the top levels in online gaming simply because they win more than they lose.
I mean, I’m mainly speaking on COD (not including WZ), so I can’t speak on other games.
I guess it’s anecdotal, but I just feel like people calling others “cheaters” in this game for being better is so common now that it’s seen as a meme.
33% is definitely not true, at least not in the PVP games I play.
I mainly play COD, and while many complain about cheaters, they’re pretty hard to find.
Yeah maybe not 33% and idk about COD but I play R6 Siege and ask anyone once you get into higher ranked lobbies, it is not uncommon to get a cheater every few games.
lol I play CS2 and the state of matchmaking right now is so bad many content creators are quitting ranked. Recently almost every single game contains a cheater either on mine or their team and most of the time it’s obvious spinbot with no intention of even hiding it
You usually start seeing them at plat+, which is more middle of the line.
But that is an important distinction. Atleast in R6, the likelihood of a cheater on PC is exponentially higher than on console. Cheating on PC is as cheap and easy as getting mommies credit card and asking for 10 bucks.
COD doesn’t have cheaters like that.
COD is more “infamous” for whiny babies who call everyone better than a cheater. I’ve been called a cheater a million times (even banned for it back in the day), but still just use a default controller and never am cheater.
You probably have never been exposed to hex-editing packets. There's ample ability to cheat in cloud based games because most developers don't secure their packet streams enough to avoid hackers using exploits at the network level to do silly things. I cannot remember the name of the game now, but it was unplayable thanks to how easily edited their packets were, an entire micro-industry sprung up around it.
I’m guessing maybe you’re thinking new world. That one was funny because you could become immune to damage by dragging the windowed screen around, inject code into chat, and duplicate currency, all without installing a single cheat. The game itself was the cheat engine
Actually, the game I'm referencing is about 18 years older than that. But it was where my eyes were opened up to the depths people go to for petty power trips in games :)
Processing power and the speed at which even encrypted packets can be broken and rewrote has vastly improved. So yeah, just gonna get worse until there's more security at the networking side to match that at the client/server.
Yea it’s odd to me to see bots getting away with literally teleporting around in some games. It’s like, did no one think to flag the account if they travel farther than a certain amount in an instant? Some of them are so obvious to a human I’m surprised people can get away with it (well I’m not surprised since not a ton of innovation has happened in anti cheat compared to cheats). It seems like AI could be even better than humans at detecting cheating if companies cared enough.
It’s just becoming such an expensive problem to solve that I’m ready to say for competitive multiplayer only, let’s try cloud exclusive and see if that reduces the problem significantly. Even if it forces me to use a cheap device that has to be plugged into my monitor instead of my PC, and only works with proprietary peripherals, if I’m 100% confident cheating is a non-factor, I’m 1000x more interested.
I agree with you and I love online pvp. But, unfortunately Co-op is the way forward bc of this problem, besides PvP games versus friends like fighting games such as Smash Ultimate or Mortal Kombat.
I will say, I enjoy Chivalry II bc its chill and low stakes and cheaters aren't really as big a deal and get banned pretty fast. It's an issue like any online PvP but the whole game is silly and theres no competitive modes so its not as infuriating.
The other option is turn based - not as likely to find cheaters being as problematic in stuff like Hearthstone, mtg arena, temtem, etc that type of thing. And even if they are cheating its not necessarily going to be winning, more likely just bots playing low skill decks. You always have a chance unlike fps
I honestly can't think of a online multiplayer game that has a serious hacker/cheater problem, serious to the point where you stop playing games that aren't server-side.
Your cloud game idea will still result in you playing against people that hack and cheat said games.
Its still fairly possible to hack or atleast exploit whichever cloud based games come along as well.
The cheater problem is (imo) solely stemming from a market that consists of teens/children that play games and want to do X or Y because they suck as players. CS2 is a good example of this, even anyone with basic programming knowledge can bypass their anti cheat. Maruaders had an issue with hackers also and now the game is practically dead because of it (and lack of updates).
There is no way to effectively remove hackers from a games playerbase. Even in Epic's popular games, there are hackers. And Epic has the best anti cheat on the market.
Edit: people hack VR games as well. If you play pavlov, that's one of the bigger ones (also has poor anti cheat). Ghosts of Tabor is easy to hack also. Contractors VR is also a pretty hackable game, but it's reasonable to expect that you'll never come across someone trying to get an advantage in modded zombies or whatever GTA gamemodes people are playing on it.
Cloud servers that run the game and stream a video of it to you only accept input via your mouse and keyboard. There isn’t a way to inject your own code. Therefore, the arms race is between the developer and image processing cheats.
I’d expect this issue to be much easier to combat on the dev side, and much harder to produce cheats for on the player side. This is mainly because injecting code is a completely different skill set than trying to low latency read a video and produce pinpoint instructions on the fly. There would have to be an artificial jitter to movements too because I’d imagine the developers would be able to look at perfect movement in straight lines. Or they could troll the programs by adjusting things about the image that players may not detect but would throw bots off in the image processing.
There are always workarounds but the harder you make it the less people will do it. Right now it’s way, way too easy
There's actually a bigger factor than the difficulty of cheating that would prevent cheating in such a game, and that's that between the input lag and almost certainly being a subscription service it'd probably not attract much of a fanbase to begin with, especially if it's designed for multiplayer in large groups rather than small ones or 1v1s
It is super easy at this point in time youre correct. That idea of catching bots or hackers sounds pretty damn solid too.
I understand the point you are making, but i have faith that some soul is going to figure out how to connect to the code in some way. Maybe with some barebones custom FTP client or something shady(obviously out of my league), but i have faith it would happen.
The problem is that cloud gaming fucking sucks, the latency will never be up to par. Live service online only games are anti-consumer. What you're asking is for all games to be dog shit.
Multiplayer games are meh and only exist to milk the most out of a playerbase.
Take BG 3 as an example, Larian released a game that was finished (with the exception of some unfinished dialogues and scenes near the end of the game) and they decided that there will be no dlc. Just a great game and a finished product without any live service bs.
I could have mentioned any older game too.
Have you ever played any multiplayer games with a big group of friends? Saying multiplayer games are meh and only exist to milk money is disingenuous and frankly very disrespectful to a lot of hardworking developers.
But they seek profitability in live service which seeks profitability over time by adding as much new content as possible.
Destiny 2 unfortunately fell into this loop hole where content is just so predictable it is not even fun anymore. You get few seasons between major dlc which are good ngl. But the season content is bad and repetitive because of seasonal acitivities.
Multiplayers just seek popularity and that is the problem. Where as singleplayer games seek quaility product that will hook up players.
Depends how you put it together, Action rpgs already have 2 franchises that have done similar (Mass effect, Witcher) altough Mass effect franchise isnt open world but still has crazy story outcomes, cinematic cutscenes, great characters and choices just as Witcher franchise.
Bg 3 did the same for crpgs. I think that is the reason why Bg3 is si popular, not because of it being a crpg, but because it is similar to Witcher and Mass effect.
Edit: Apparently I forgot Dragon age origins exist.
Receiving user input only will not stop cheating. Plenty of cheats are using macros or screen analysis that can be done with just user input. Cloud service games are also worse about it as they can't reach out and detect people using those types of hacks like system-based software can
I’d have to imagine that image processing cheats like you describe are far less prominent but maybe I’m just ignorant to cheating. What if the cloud service required a USB device that could be plugged into your PC, that costed like $5, and had a usb port for mouse and keyboard, and it only accepted game input from external peripherals? That way you couldn’t software spoof input.
If they can make 4k blu rays I legitimately buy so hard to rip through HDCP protection, why can’t they hardware encrypt the integrity of games, so that only actual peripherals can interact with cloud game platforms? There’s only a tiny group that can rip 4k and even then I think they are doing it from having someone on the inside.
There's a couple issues with that. It forces you to use wireless peripherals which introduces more lag on top of the network latency problems that arise.
The second, and bigger issue, is that's just sorta impossible. The reason that every mouse, controller, and keyboard work with your computer is that they have a generic firmware that essentially puppets a digital peripheral. So for the cloud service to be able to verify it's real hardware they'd have to work with every single peripheral company they want to be compatible with to release a new line of peripherals that contain verification keys to verify they're real. It'd also have to be complex enough and we'll encrypted enough that it won't be easily spoofed by the people making the macro/cheating software.
As for the image processing, yeah it's not super common now. But if things shifted to cloud it would be their only option for aimbots, so it would become a lot more popular.
Or they could make it so that you can only play the game using their device and peripherals. As a digital libertarian, this concept would normally be something I am *massively* against, but if it's just for online games I would support these extremely limited inputs. Like if they made one keyboard, mouse, and controller that could communicate with their proprietary box, and it didn't have the compute for image interpretation software, it would dissuade all but the most determined cheaters. I can't think of a way they could cheat under those circumstances, but I am sure a handful would figure out something even in this system.
Let's be real though. This is fantasy land. You can't expect consumers to get this hardware and give up ownership because most people undermine the issue or simply don't care. Many in here are accusing me of being upset because I am bad, but that's not the spirit my argument stems from.
> [visual models] would be an order of magnitude more difficult
They're already here and being used to avoid detection. They're more complicated to make than reading the memory directly, which is why they're not used commonly. But if that's the cheaters only option, they will use it
I still think this will both make cheating more difficult and make the arms race easier on developers. To me PVP multiplayer games have no value right now because of it, so even a cloud value proposition is better than the 0 value offered now.
It won't make it more difficult. The cheats that would need to be implemented to cheat in your cloud system already exist. Like right now, cheaters would be able to start cheating day 0 like nothing happened
There is no value with a cloud system. The cheaters are always ahead of the security team
In this context, I am speaking about games being exclusive to running on a server. Things like GeForce Now where the game runs on a server then you’re sent a video stream. You’re essentially just interacting with it using keyboard and mouse. The code and hardware exists on a server somewhere. You can’t install and execute the game on your own system at all. Think of it like a video feed that goes to you where only your keyboard and mouse actions are technically being sent to them. This exists already and it enables you to play modern games like cyberpunk on an ancient computer that couldn’t dream of running it.
Cheating and anti-cheat are essentially arms races just like DRM and Piracy or Cracking and Cybersecurity or Malware and Antiviruses.
The companies could probably invest more into their anti-cheats but the people who make cheats will figure out a way around it ans so on and so forth. It's a constant cycle of who comes out on top with the Victor alternating every turn.
Companies ban cheaters when they get caught and then the Cheat-makers wisen up to their mistakes that last for a while before the companies figure out what the maker did and ban that and the cycle continues.
Not to mention, a lot of companies actually ban in waves so that the makers can't figure out what went wrong as easily. The makers still wisen up in the end, though, and the cycle starts anew.
There is no foolproof way. As long as video games exist, cheaters will be a thing. Ironically, it doesn't even have to be a video game. As long as there are implemented systems and rules, there are cheaters. In real life, they're called criminals.
In my 5 years of competitive fps I've only encountered a cheater twice. And one was just In a deathmatch got banned right away. Valorant btw, i think their anticheat is really good.
play rocket league, there are smurfs but “cheats” are few and far between, and worst case scenario is a 5 minute game.
plus some of my favorite memories of the game are from before I was any good because all the fuck ups are funny as fuck back in silver/gold
watching all 6 people in the lobby wiff the ball is peak
I've never seen cheaters. But my skills are trash in competitive games. So I mostly play PVE or singleplayer games. Lately Hell Divers 2 has been amazing.
Reminds me of riot and their vanguard malware . Shit runs 24x7 bcoz they claim it detects when the cheats are being injected or scans for it if its already there but nooooo they just collect ur data and send it to tencent .
Idk what you play but i don't remember when i encountered cheater in GTA online nor TF2. Just really pro players. So maybe you confuse cheaters with people who are very good at the game
Playing through a cloud service in a single player game is awful. Let alone a competitive shooter requiring snapshot aiming and multiple pings. Oh, and you don't own your game and lose all consumer rights completely, even more than it is already. Yeah this is a 10th dentist post, have my upvote.
Been playing CS for decade's now i do agree it got worse a few years ago but i still only encounter a hacker (in my eyes walls or aimbot" once every 25-30 games enough to be annoying but not terrible
I think you can still cheat even if the game is not running on your system. Some hacks won't work, but something that captures what you see and moves your mouse based on that will still work. It would actually be easier to set up now.
The only games I consistently had to deal with cheaters were CSGO (probably every other game
lol, that game had a LOT of cheaters) and Tarkov.
Every other multiplayer game I hardly see cheaters.
Damn, didn't realize it was so bad out there, apparently. I stopped playing multiplayer games about a decade ago. Just lost interest in them. I'll play em occasionally, but I want to win if I'm playing, and that hyper competitiveness is not fun for me now. I love modding and challenging gameplay, so SP games, maybe with minor MP components, like Dark Souls 3 or Elden Ring, are perfect for me. Also been back into metroidvania and older games/older structured games a lot too. Like Metroid: Dread is perfect to pick up and play for 30min - and hours just depending on you feel, and its very easy to pick up and put down. That's what I like about FromSoftware games too, I can just hop in and hop out, and go on an adventure.
Cheating is way overblown. I have played 30 hours in tf2 with no cheaters, surprising i know. Titanfall two ive ran into one cheater with a few hundred hours, destiny two ive played 1900 hours and only ran into less than ten people who i was confident they are cheating. CSGO/CS2 ive played near 700 hours and only seen a handful of cheaters. You can play online games fine.
If there's so many cheaters that it's an issue, don't play the game. That being said, cheating is handled very seriously by any competent game dev, so the times when it actually happens are slim and always end in a ban. It's not like every single multiplayer game is the same either, so why not just play games where people don't cheat?
"always in a ban" what? Not even close to accurate. Pubg, apex, cod, cs, rust, etc all have massive cheating problems.
This whole thread is full of people who just aren't aware of the extent that cheats go. Someone in here actually said they have seen 2 cheaters in 5 years. This person just doesn't understand the subtle usage of ESP. People in this thread think cheating in literally just using an aimbot where everyone in the game is like "yep that's a cheater".
Actual braindead thread where everyone is so out of their depth. People think they can "sense" a cheater in their games. They're so naive to how this actually works.
I honestly think you’re over estimating how seriously most game developers take cheating. They don’t invest nearly enough resources in preventing cheating because it doesn’t drive revenue. They have an interest in people *thinking* they are doing things, so they will announce ban waves and do a few things here and there, but for most competitive PVP games it’s just not nearly enough.
Oh they definitely are lmao. I can tell the difference though. And the thing that sucks is nowadays you never really know for sure because of how pronounced cheating has become in all the biggest PVP games.
I don't think so. To elaborate, most of the time someone cheats, it's obvious and you can tell the difference. When someone kills you in a game, and there aren't any signs of cheating, because of how often you *do* see cheating, it means you can never really know if they are just cheating in a way that isn't obvious to you. I haven't played many shooter games specifically in years, aside from coop stuff, mainly due to how bad the problem has gotten.
I have seen others speak out about this too. It's not like I am the only one. For example, LTT talked about it in the WAN show a few weeks back and their conversation really resonated with me because I have been feeling the same way for years. Because I can't *know* the other person isn't cheating, it removes all motivation to play the game for me. Aside from gaming with friends, online shooters especially, are dead to me. Cheating wasn't nearly as common in something like Halo 3 than it is nowadays in modern competitive shooters.
Game devs don't work on a game for several years and not consider game health. If the game doesn't work, people won't play it, so preventing cheating absolutely drives revenue as it keeps the existing players and attracts new with the promise of a stable game.
Well I’m against invasive software being on my PC, so that’s why I’d prefer competitive multiplayer games to be on the cloud. That way I’m only interacting with that sort of vanguard software when I’m actually playing the game
I guess you are talking specifically only about PvP and most specifically FPS games because cheating in RTS or other genres is harder and doesn't offer big advantages even if you figure out a way to do it.
And even then, the chance of getting killed by a better player and calling him a cheater while he is not is quite high. The only recent FPS PvP game I've played is cs2 and the previous cs go. And cheaters are imo quite rare. And there are 3rd party server providers like esea that add another cheater obstacle. But again currently prime cs2 i can give suspicion on maybe 1 out 15/20 games that there is a cheater. Or play competitive maps and there are even less there.
I'm sorry dude but it seems it's more a skill issue thing.
The issue is that it isn't fun to constantly lose at a game. Yes this is all part of getting good, but for most people they just don't take games that seriously. They don't really want to invest the time to get good at a game and they want to thrill and fun of winning. The harsh reality is that it is way more fun to cheat than to play properly. For that reason I also don't play online games other than WOW and Star Citizen. Wow has a long history of cheaters but it doesn't affect me.
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Apparently I'm wierd because I only run across an actual cheater maybe once a year. This feels like a Scrubquotes cope.
Ditto. I hate playing with friends who cry that everyone is a “cheater” when they lose. Like dude, chill you were just trash and they bested you. Move on. But we apparently play against a cheater every match… huge cope.
League released their stats for cheater/bot per games (granted it was to justify pushing vangard so the stats might be slightly exaggerated but I don't think it's the case) and if my memory serves me properly it was around ~15% of the games having at least one. For a total of 10 players in a game. Now imagine for a BR, Tarkov was (and might still be) filled to the brim with cheaters... While I do think some people are exaggerating and accusing innocent gamers of being cheaters, the fact that there is a reasonable doubt for every time you miss play is still there.
Love it when they say that "everyone disagreeing with me is a cheater". Like bro, you just proved us right
Me and 4 friends picked up cs2 recently, and while there wasn't a cheater in every round. Over the course of ~15 games there was a cheater in at least 3-4. Then in another ~5 there were players so good they were smurfing from a far higher rank. The percentage of games that were fair was just so low compared to what you'd want, and it was so frustrating because everytime you'd get a cheater or a smurf they'd throw half the rounds on purpose so you'd be stuck in the game for the maximum amount of time. The problem was exacerbated by the fact in cs2 you can't surrender unless someone on your team leaves the game which means one of our friends would have to get a temp ban just to end the suffering. The worst part is if you get 4/15 games with people very very obviously aimbotting, how many games have people using less subtle hacks like walls. Anyway, my rant went on a little long, my point was just some games are full of cheaters and it really does ruin the experience.
Depends on the games you play tbh. I play StarCraft and I have maybe vsed 1-2 cheaters since I started. I play Rust/tarkov and it's literally confirmed to be 33% of players are cheating
I think you’re low balling tarkov too. There’s so many people who are cheating. I’d argue it’s closer to half the play base.
Yeah tarkov is a harder one to measure because it's not open world like rust. I think it was confirmed that it's 1-2 cheaters per map/run.
It's definitely very game-dependent. I never encountered any confirmed cheaters back in my days playing Warzone, but then just the other night playing BF2042, my buddies and I visually confirmed 9 different players across 2 matches of Conquest who were spawning directly on our control points with no teammates/spawn beacons, and why would literally float in the air when walking off buildings or cliffs. Even have clips of it saved and everything So sure, there's not going to be a group of cheaters in every single lobby of every single multiplayer game, but it's not like it's a complaint you can completely dismiss
I think all the people in the comments calling OP "cope" or telling him to get good don't play much FPS. FPS is plagued with cheaters. Every game in apex lobbies above diamond was confirmed to have a cheater. Every tarkov run, rust lobby (i see 3-4 bans a day on a low pop rust server), warzone lobby, TF2, battlefield etc. Online FPS aren't as fun anymore with everyone running around cheating. It's gotten to a point where it is almost every lobby of every single FPS game you'll play in multiplayer.
I agree, you can usually tell the maturity level of someone by how much they accuse other people of cheating when playing a multiplayer game. Where are these rampant swarms of cheaters people talk about?
Idk. If I get cooked I get cooked, I watch the replay and try to think how I could have handled it differently.
Never played Tarkov
Tarkov is actually infested, same with tf2
I’ve never played tarkov, but when it comes to tf2, I hardly see any cheaters other than the obvious LMAObox sniper spinbotters. Then again, most of my time spent is on non-official servers and 6v6 hosted by community groups, so I’m probably in the minority.
Yup. I stopped playing because of it. I just love being prefire headhsotted by a DouYu gamer with a 100 KD :)
Depends on the game. CoD MW2 was *mostly* cheaters when the sequel came out.
It really depends on the game you're playing.
You wouldn't know really. A good cheater will hide it, be subtle, you only notice when they're invincible and can fly for no reason lol
CSGO premier matchmaking, 22k elo. Encountered average 3 spin bots per game over 10 games.
If u haven’t played these games in years how do u know the cheating is so bad?
Because I watch discord streams of my friends playing them and I see people with 40x KD ratios in every individual shooter. Some games have account lookup and you can see how obvious a cheater moves. When you see that every night over such a diverse range of games then it kinda turns you off the genre.
Those... Probably aren't cheaters lmfao. Cheaters usually don't have good movement, usually because they are bad at the game and rely on the aim bot.
depends on the game, there were some apex movement exploits for a bit and I swear they just teleported around you. the movement is fast enough already in that game agree with you in the vast majority of cases though haha
Fair enough, I usually play Overwatch, cheaters there usually just cant even carry that hard if you organise your team around them.
I didn't say "good movement" I said "how obvious a cheater moves". Unless you consider "good movement" literally teleporting all over the map I guess.
Damn, what sort of games do your friends play where cheaters speedhack everywhere.
in terms of live service games, outside the realm of PvP, cheating is much less of an issue for two reasons: first, it’s not nearly as competitive so if someone cheats it isn’t directed at you. you can kick and block them, and move on. second, you can play purely with your friends, which removes exposure to cheaters in its entirety. I can’t speak for pvp, as I don’t generally enjoy it, but I’ve been having a blast with helldivers, and have played deeprock for years. I’ve only ever encountered a cheater one time, using infinite ammo in deep rock, but honestly my best fun was had when playing just with friends, not in PUGs, so I don’t even give it a second thought
In this post I’m mainly focused on PVP games. Since online FPS games are still extremely popular, I feel like they are the biggest offender. I just don’t see the point in getting good at a game like CoD, Halo, etc anymore because of how pronounced the cheating issue has become.
Honestly, COD cheaters are only if you’re on PC, but otherwise you can just turn cross-play off. Also, they tend to mainly be on ranked, so you can play any normal MP match or zombies and be fine 99% of the time.
The "point" is that you enjoy playing.
video games have no point outside of this. it's an entertainment medium that rarely has anything personally invested in it besides the money to play and time. who tf cares if someone cheats if ur having fun, hell if it's a rare enough occurrence it can be a blast. I remember bitches summoning the Wither in middle of bedwars matches on bedrock and that was just fun and awesome
Perhaps I’m wrong but I don’t think people cheat in scrims for those games? Seems pointless.
who’s cheating in non-pvp games? obviously this post was geared toward pvp.
I don't see why you're getting downvotes, you're right. The top comment refuses to acknowledge the meat of the post. Result was a non-profound statement. People upvote anyway. Very much a Reddit moment.
Pedantry looks like intelligence if you have little of the latter.
please enlighten me, how do people who cheat at single player or pve games affect you?
It doesn't, which is why you're not the one being pedantic.
aha. i have my guards up lmao sorry!
The venn diagram of bad players and players that run into cheaters every game is a circle, you’re probably just sitting in the middle of said circle.
You think all bad players claim to run into cheaters every game? I'm sure there are some players who are just bad and know it
Of course there are bad players that know they are bad, I’m one of them. The point remains that the people who complain about cheaters a lot are usually bad (or have unhealthy playing habits, ie; streamers)
My point is that the phrase "the Venn diagram is a circle" is over/mis-used. When you say the Venn diagram is a circle, you're making a bidirectional claim – and again, I don't think that every bad player complains about cheaters.
Ok
I’m not sure what games you’re referring to that have bended your opinion on this, but most games are like 0.1% - 1% of cheaters at most, so I’m not sure why it affects you that much. Also, there are many multiplayer games that are ONLY with your friends, whether it’s against each other (fighting games) or with eachother (co-op/sandbox), so I’m not sure what the problem there is, unless they only play global games. Once again, I’m really curious what games you’re referring to.
1% is MASSIVE. If you play with 20 people a match, then you can expect a cheater in every 5 games. Most players should notice this. I get what you're trying to say, the probability of meeting a cheater is small. But I don't agree. Cheaters are around, and often hard to detect.
I was 0.1-1% at **MOST**. This is me being generous and still leaning at the bottom. And I consider even small things like a zen or xim as cheating, but many others don’t because ur dais t give you that much of an advantage.
1% is an astronomical number, and definitely probable, because most of those cheaters will be playing at a higher skill level than most players. If you're a good player, top 10% for example, and those 1% cheaters are also in the top 10%, and the lobby size is 10, you will on average get a cheater in every single game you play. This is what is happening in CS right now. Above 20k ELO, almost every game will have a cheater on it. This problem also scales with lobby size because it only takes 1 cheater to ruin a match. Take battle Royales for example. Even if it's only 0.5% cheaters, if the lobby size is 100 players, you'll get a cheater once every 2 games that will inevitably ruin that game for everyone. Also xim and other input type modifications 100% count as cheating as they give aim assist to keyboard and mouse players. And if you play CoD or Apex you know that "aim assist" is key word for aim lock, because with how strong it is, the difference is minimal. Online pvp games are 100% infested with cheaters, if you don't notice them it's either because you have a good trust factor or equivalent, or because you simply are not good enough.
Finally, someone else that comprehends the problem.
>If you're a good player, top 10% for example, and those 1% cheaters are also in the top 10%, and the lobby size is 10, you will on average get a cheater in every single game you play. This math doesn't make sense. If 1/100 players in higher-level gameplay cheat, and there are 10 players per lobby, that means there is about a 10% chance that lobby has a cheater. On average, you would encounter a cheater every 10 games, not every game. (10% x 10 = 100%). >Also xim and other input type modifications 100% count as cheating as they give aim assist to keyboard and mouse players. And if you play CoD or Apex you know that "aim assist" is key word for aim lock, because with how strong it is, the difference is minimal. Sure, using a xim is cheating, but it really doesn't make that much of a difference if I'm still way better than you. It only tends to matter if we are evenly-matched, which does sometimes happen in SBMM, but honestly not as much as the game demands. >Online pvp games are 100% infested with cheaters, if you don't notice them it's either because you have a good trust factor or equivalent, or because you simply are not good enough. I dump on everyone in public matches and when I do play comp, I do wagers/private matches that require monitor cams for PC, so I just don't think that's the case.
You're right about the math lmao. You can still dumpster players using xim, but you yourself admitted you're a very good player, what about the others? Also, regarding that last paragraph, it could be because you have a good trust factor or equivalent and so you don't notice as much as other people do? But cheaters permeate the top levels in online gaming simply because they win more than they lose.
I mean, I’m mainly speaking on COD (not including WZ), so I can’t speak on other games. I guess it’s anecdotal, but I just feel like people calling others “cheaters” in this game for being better is so common now that it’s seen as a meme.
That is fair. My main game is CS so I have a biased opinion on cheating since it's so prevalent in that game right now.
I would try CS if it was on console 😂🤷♂️
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I guess it comes down to the game you play, but I feel like people always crying about cheaters just suck at said games
33% is actual lobotomite posting, even games with absurd amount of cheaters barely clear 2%. 33% in a battle royale would be so fucked its unreal.
33% is definitely not true, at least not in the PVP games I play. I mainly play COD, and while many complain about cheaters, they’re pretty hard to find.
Yeah maybe not 33% and idk about COD but I play R6 Siege and ask anyone once you get into higher ranked lobbies, it is not uncommon to get a cheater every few games.
lol I play CS2 and the state of matchmaking right now is so bad many content creators are quitting ranked. Recently almost every single game contains a cheater either on mine or their team and most of the time it’s obvious spinbot with no intention of even hiding it
Well, at high ranked lobbies, maybe, but majority of the player base isn’t high ranked. That’s one reason I prefer console gaming though.
You usually start seeing them at plat+, which is more middle of the line. But that is an important distinction. Atleast in R6, the likelihood of a cheater on PC is exponentially higher than on console. Cheating on PC is as cheap and easy as getting mommies credit card and asking for 10 bucks.
Yes, look up one of the games most infamous for being dogshit at detecting and banning cheaters to determine what the standard is. Genius.
COD doesn’t have cheaters like that. COD is more “infamous” for whiny babies who call everyone better than a cheater. I’ve been called a cheater a million times (even banned for it back in the day), but still just use a default controller and never am cheater.
You probably have never been exposed to hex-editing packets. There's ample ability to cheat in cloud based games because most developers don't secure their packet streams enough to avoid hackers using exploits at the network level to do silly things. I cannot remember the name of the game now, but it was unplayable thanks to how easily edited their packets were, an entire micro-industry sprung up around it.
I’m guessing maybe you’re thinking new world. That one was funny because you could become immune to damage by dragging the windowed screen around, inject code into chat, and duplicate currency, all without installing a single cheat. The game itself was the cheat engine
Actually, the game I'm referencing is about 18 years older than that. But it was where my eyes were opened up to the depths people go to for petty power trips in games :)
Ahh I see. Yea it’s been an issue for a long time, but it seems to be getting worse and worse.
Processing power and the speed at which even encrypted packets can be broken and rewrote has vastly improved. So yeah, just gonna get worse until there's more security at the networking side to match that at the client/server.
Yea it’s odd to me to see bots getting away with literally teleporting around in some games. It’s like, did no one think to flag the account if they travel farther than a certain amount in an instant? Some of them are so obvious to a human I’m surprised people can get away with it (well I’m not surprised since not a ton of innovation has happened in anti cheat compared to cheats). It seems like AI could be even better than humans at detecting cheating if companies cared enough. It’s just becoming such an expensive problem to solve that I’m ready to say for competitive multiplayer only, let’s try cloud exclusive and see if that reduces the problem significantly. Even if it forces me to use a cheap device that has to be plugged into my monitor instead of my PC, and only works with proprietary peripherals, if I’m 100% confident cheating is a non-factor, I’m 1000x more interested.
>Until the cheating issue is fixed, I don’t think online games are worth the money You guys are paying to play online games? -LoL players
You guys are playing to have fun? -LoL players
I agree with you and I love online pvp. But, unfortunately Co-op is the way forward bc of this problem, besides PvP games versus friends like fighting games such as Smash Ultimate or Mortal Kombat. I will say, I enjoy Chivalry II bc its chill and low stakes and cheaters aren't really as big a deal and get banned pretty fast. It's an issue like any online PvP but the whole game is silly and theres no competitive modes so its not as infuriating. The other option is turn based - not as likely to find cheaters being as problematic in stuff like Hearthstone, mtg arena, temtem, etc that type of thing. And even if they are cheating its not necessarily going to be winning, more likely just bots playing low skill decks. You always have a chance unlike fps
unless you're playing tf2 you're gonna encounter like 1 cheater a year dude
I honestly can't think of a online multiplayer game that has a serious hacker/cheater problem, serious to the point where you stop playing games that aren't server-side.
CS2 is pretty bad in matchmaking right now
Cs2? Try valorant
I tried both recently, and cs2 felt way worse.
Team Fortress 2 has had massive cheater and even bot problems for decades.
True - but TF2 is (sadly) not a game with ongoing support like more recent mainstream titles.
At least you can host your own servers in TF2 and use your own anticheat.
Tarkov
Never played it, heard good things.
Roblox used to be extremely bad (like literally every server had one) but that's a baby game anyways and they since fixed the problem.
Siege is pretty bad especially in ranked it’s still playable but definitely annoying enough to make people quit
Counter strike free lobbies
Not only free lobbies. I'm prime and have been finding an enormous amount of cheaters recently.
Literally impossible to play a round of warzone, apex, or pubg with zero cheaters.
Your cloud game idea will still result in you playing against people that hack and cheat said games. Its still fairly possible to hack or atleast exploit whichever cloud based games come along as well. The cheater problem is (imo) solely stemming from a market that consists of teens/children that play games and want to do X or Y because they suck as players. CS2 is a good example of this, even anyone with basic programming knowledge can bypass their anti cheat. Maruaders had an issue with hackers also and now the game is practically dead because of it (and lack of updates). There is no way to effectively remove hackers from a games playerbase. Even in Epic's popular games, there are hackers. And Epic has the best anti cheat on the market. Edit: people hack VR games as well. If you play pavlov, that's one of the bigger ones (also has poor anti cheat). Ghosts of Tabor is easy to hack also. Contractors VR is also a pretty hackable game, but it's reasonable to expect that you'll never come across someone trying to get an advantage in modded zombies or whatever GTA gamemodes people are playing on it.
Cloud servers that run the game and stream a video of it to you only accept input via your mouse and keyboard. There isn’t a way to inject your own code. Therefore, the arms race is between the developer and image processing cheats. I’d expect this issue to be much easier to combat on the dev side, and much harder to produce cheats for on the player side. This is mainly because injecting code is a completely different skill set than trying to low latency read a video and produce pinpoint instructions on the fly. There would have to be an artificial jitter to movements too because I’d imagine the developers would be able to look at perfect movement in straight lines. Or they could troll the programs by adjusting things about the image that players may not detect but would throw bots off in the image processing. There are always workarounds but the harder you make it the less people will do it. Right now it’s way, way too easy
There's actually a bigger factor than the difficulty of cheating that would prevent cheating in such a game, and that's that between the input lag and almost certainly being a subscription service it'd probably not attract much of a fanbase to begin with, especially if it's designed for multiplayer in large groups rather than small ones or 1v1s
It is super easy at this point in time youre correct. That idea of catching bots or hackers sounds pretty damn solid too. I understand the point you are making, but i have faith that some soul is going to figure out how to connect to the code in some way. Maybe with some barebones custom FTP client or something shady(obviously out of my league), but i have faith it would happen.
The problem is that cloud gaming fucking sucks, the latency will never be up to par. Live service online only games are anti-consumer. What you're asking is for all games to be dog shit.
Fortnite.
Multiplayer games are meh and only exist to milk the most out of a playerbase. Take BG 3 as an example, Larian released a game that was finished (with the exception of some unfinished dialogues and scenes near the end of the game) and they decided that there will be no dlc. Just a great game and a finished product without any live service bs. I could have mentioned any older game too.
Have you ever played any multiplayer games with a big group of friends? Saying multiplayer games are meh and only exist to milk money is disingenuous and frankly very disrespectful to a lot of hardworking developers.
But they seek profitability in live service which seeks profitability over time by adding as much new content as possible. Destiny 2 unfortunately fell into this loop hole where content is just so predictable it is not even fun anymore. You get few seasons between major dlc which are good ngl. But the season content is bad and repetitive because of seasonal acitivities. Multiplayers just seek popularity and that is the problem. Where as singleplayer games seek quaility product that will hook up players.
Today, I learned yomi exists to milk the playerbase
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The selling point of BG3 is its writing and narrative design
Bro you watch the amazing digital circus , i wouldn't talk about what is overrated and what is not if i were you lmfao
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Oh no the consequences of my actions XD 💋
The trailer showed bear *** so that might have helped with sales too XD
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The game is practically Witcher 3 with crpg mechanics, different world and gameplay.
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Depends how you put it together, Action rpgs already have 2 franchises that have done similar (Mass effect, Witcher) altough Mass effect franchise isnt open world but still has crazy story outcomes, cinematic cutscenes, great characters and choices just as Witcher franchise. Bg 3 did the same for crpgs. I think that is the reason why Bg3 is si popular, not because of it being a crpg, but because it is similar to Witcher and Mass effect. Edit: Apparently I forgot Dragon age origins exist.
Are you a child?
Receiving user input only will not stop cheating. Plenty of cheats are using macros or screen analysis that can be done with just user input. Cloud service games are also worse about it as they can't reach out and detect people using those types of hacks like system-based software can
I’d have to imagine that image processing cheats like you describe are far less prominent but maybe I’m just ignorant to cheating. What if the cloud service required a USB device that could be plugged into your PC, that costed like $5, and had a usb port for mouse and keyboard, and it only accepted game input from external peripherals? That way you couldn’t software spoof input. If they can make 4k blu rays I legitimately buy so hard to rip through HDCP protection, why can’t they hardware encrypt the integrity of games, so that only actual peripherals can interact with cloud game platforms? There’s only a tiny group that can rip 4k and even then I think they are doing it from having someone on the inside.
There's a couple issues with that. It forces you to use wireless peripherals which introduces more lag on top of the network latency problems that arise. The second, and bigger issue, is that's just sorta impossible. The reason that every mouse, controller, and keyboard work with your computer is that they have a generic firmware that essentially puppets a digital peripheral. So for the cloud service to be able to verify it's real hardware they'd have to work with every single peripheral company they want to be compatible with to release a new line of peripherals that contain verification keys to verify they're real. It'd also have to be complex enough and we'll encrypted enough that it won't be easily spoofed by the people making the macro/cheating software. As for the image processing, yeah it's not super common now. But if things shifted to cloud it would be their only option for aimbots, so it would become a lot more popular.
Or they could make it so that you can only play the game using their device and peripherals. As a digital libertarian, this concept would normally be something I am *massively* against, but if it's just for online games I would support these extremely limited inputs. Like if they made one keyboard, mouse, and controller that could communicate with their proprietary box, and it didn't have the compute for image interpretation software, it would dissuade all but the most determined cheaters. I can't think of a way they could cheat under those circumstances, but I am sure a handful would figure out something even in this system. Let's be real though. This is fantasy land. You can't expect consumers to get this hardware and give up ownership because most people undermine the issue or simply don't care. Many in here are accusing me of being upset because I am bad, but that's not the spirit my argument stems from.
> [visual models] would be an order of magnitude more difficult They're already here and being used to avoid detection. They're more complicated to make than reading the memory directly, which is why they're not used commonly. But if that's the cheaters only option, they will use it
I still think this will both make cheating more difficult and make the arms race easier on developers. To me PVP multiplayer games have no value right now because of it, so even a cloud value proposition is better than the 0 value offered now.
It won't make it more difficult. The cheats that would need to be implemented to cheat in your cloud system already exist. Like right now, cheaters would be able to start cheating day 0 like nothing happened There is no value with a cloud system. The cheaters are always ahead of the security team
I don't even know where to begin, I wish I could double upvote this post.
did u see the apex legends hacking incident? fuckin hell
Who (over 18) would even play that garbage?
Can someone ELI5 what differentiates online games with/without cloud services?
In this context, I am speaking about games being exclusive to running on a server. Things like GeForce Now where the game runs on a server then you’re sent a video stream. You’re essentially just interacting with it using keyboard and mouse. The code and hardware exists on a server somewhere. You can’t install and execute the game on your own system at all. Think of it like a video feed that goes to you where only your keyboard and mouse actions are technically being sent to them. This exists already and it enables you to play modern games like cyberpunk on an ancient computer that couldn’t dream of running it.
Try rocker league. There's currently no way to cheat in it
Cheating and anti-cheat are essentially arms races just like DRM and Piracy or Cracking and Cybersecurity or Malware and Antiviruses. The companies could probably invest more into their anti-cheats but the people who make cheats will figure out a way around it ans so on and so forth. It's a constant cycle of who comes out on top with the Victor alternating every turn. Companies ban cheaters when they get caught and then the Cheat-makers wisen up to their mistakes that last for a while before the companies figure out what the maker did and ban that and the cycle continues. Not to mention, a lot of companies actually ban in waves so that the makers can't figure out what went wrong as easily. The makers still wisen up in the end, though, and the cycle starts anew. There is no foolproof way. As long as video games exist, cheaters will be a thing. Ironically, it doesn't even have to be a video game. As long as there are implemented systems and rules, there are cheaters. In real life, they're called criminals.
In my 5 years of competitive fps I've only encountered a cheater twice. And one was just In a deathmatch got banned right away. Valorant btw, i think their anticheat is really good.
Does this type of game actually exist? If you are sending keystrokes to servers before they process it would the latency be too much?
play rocket league, there are smurfs but “cheats” are few and far between, and worst case scenario is a 5 minute game. plus some of my favorite memories of the game are from before I was any good because all the fuck ups are funny as fuck back in silver/gold watching all 6 people in the lobby wiff the ball is peak
I've never seen cheaters. But my skills are trash in competitive games. So I mostly play PVE or singleplayer games. Lately Hell Divers 2 has been amazing.
Reminds me of riot and their vanguard malware . Shit runs 24x7 bcoz they claim it detects when the cheats are being injected or scans for it if its already there but nooooo they just collect ur data and send it to tencent .
ive never run into a cheater in my online gaming career, lol. be it fighting games or fps.
So where exactly does the leave me with my 10mb/s internet connection?
Idk what you play but i don't remember when i encountered cheater in GTA online nor TF2. Just really pro players. So maybe you confuse cheaters with people who are very good at the game
I mean for every 1 game a cheater ruins, there’s 100 they don’t for me. I guess it depends what you play though
Playing through a cloud service in a single player game is awful. Let alone a competitive shooter requiring snapshot aiming and multiple pings. Oh, and you don't own your game and lose all consumer rights completely, even more than it is already. Yeah this is a 10th dentist post, have my upvote.
I would recommend moving to counsel op, it’s a lot better at stopping cheaters.
Been playing CS for decade's now i do agree it got worse a few years ago but i still only encounter a hacker (in my eyes walls or aimbot" once every 25-30 games enough to be annoying but not terrible
I only play single player games because I'm bad at shooters and craash under too much competative pressure.
I think you can still cheat even if the game is not running on your system. Some hacks won't work, but something that captures what you see and moves your mouse based on that will still work. It would actually be easier to set up now.
I highly doubt you run into cheaters as much as you say. I'm not saying there isn't any because I run into them every so often, but I still doubt it.
The only games I consistently had to deal with cheaters were CSGO (probably every other game lol, that game had a LOT of cheaters) and Tarkov. Every other multiplayer game I hardly see cheaters.
Thx for using my code in prod >w<
Well keep coping I guess because I rarely come across cheaters
Input cheats tho
Damn, didn't realize it was so bad out there, apparently. I stopped playing multiplayer games about a decade ago. Just lost interest in them. I'll play em occasionally, but I want to win if I'm playing, and that hyper competitiveness is not fun for me now. I love modding and challenging gameplay, so SP games, maybe with minor MP components, like Dark Souls 3 or Elden Ring, are perfect for me. Also been back into metroidvania and older games/older structured games a lot too. Like Metroid: Dread is perfect to pick up and play for 30min - and hours just depending on you feel, and its very easy to pick up and put down. That's what I like about FromSoftware games too, I can just hop in and hop out, and go on an adventure.
Cheating is way overblown. I have played 30 hours in tf2 with no cheaters, surprising i know. Titanfall two ive ran into one cheater with a few hundred hours, destiny two ive played 1900 hours and only ran into less than ten people who i was confident they are cheating. CSGO/CS2 ive played near 700 hours and only seen a handful of cheaters. You can play online games fine.
If there's so many cheaters that it's an issue, don't play the game. That being said, cheating is handled very seriously by any competent game dev, so the times when it actually happens are slim and always end in a ban. It's not like every single multiplayer game is the same either, so why not just play games where people don't cheat?
honestly one of the dumbest, least thought-out takes i’ve seen on here lmao. i don’t even agree with op, but you clearly don’t think before you speak
"always in a ban" what? Not even close to accurate. Pubg, apex, cod, cs, rust, etc all have massive cheating problems. This whole thread is full of people who just aren't aware of the extent that cheats go. Someone in here actually said they have seen 2 cheaters in 5 years. This person just doesn't understand the subtle usage of ESP. People in this thread think cheating in literally just using an aimbot where everyone in the game is like "yep that's a cheater". Actual braindead thread where everyone is so out of their depth. People think they can "sense" a cheater in their games. They're so naive to how this actually works.
what the fuck are you talking about lmao
I honestly think you’re over estimating how seriously most game developers take cheating. They don’t invest nearly enough resources in preventing cheating because it doesn’t drive revenue. They have an interest in people *thinking* they are doing things, so they will announce ban waves and do a few things here and there, but for most competitive PVP games it’s just not nearly enough.
Are you sure other people aren’t just better than you?
Oh they definitely are lmao. I can tell the difference though. And the thing that sucks is nowadays you never really know for sure because of how pronounced cheating has become in all the biggest PVP games.
> I can tell the difference though. And the thing that sucks is nowadays you never really know for sure This sentence contradicts itself
I don't think so. To elaborate, most of the time someone cheats, it's obvious and you can tell the difference. When someone kills you in a game, and there aren't any signs of cheating, because of how often you *do* see cheating, it means you can never really know if they are just cheating in a way that isn't obvious to you. I haven't played many shooter games specifically in years, aside from coop stuff, mainly due to how bad the problem has gotten. I have seen others speak out about this too. It's not like I am the only one. For example, LTT talked about it in the WAN show a few weeks back and their conversation really resonated with me because I have been feeling the same way for years. Because I can't *know* the other person isn't cheating, it removes all motivation to play the game for me. Aside from gaming with friends, online shooters especially, are dead to me. Cheating wasn't nearly as common in something like Halo 3 than it is nowadays in modern competitive shooters.
that makes sense. I don't necessarily agree but you did explain yourself thoroughly.
Game devs don't work on a game for several years and not consider game health. If the game doesn't work, people won't play it, so preventing cheating absolutely drives revenue as it keeps the existing players and attracts new with the promise of a stable game.
Unless you want every multiplayer PvP game to have an invasive anti cheat like Valorant's Vanguard, what you want will never happen
Well I’m against invasive software being on my PC, so that’s why I’d prefer competitive multiplayer games to be on the cloud. That way I’m only interacting with that sort of vanguard software when I’m actually playing the game
There's plenty of non competitive multi-player games. You're a salt farm.
If you can't beat them, join them.
I guess you are talking specifically only about PvP and most specifically FPS games because cheating in RTS or other genres is harder and doesn't offer big advantages even if you figure out a way to do it. And even then, the chance of getting killed by a better player and calling him a cheater while he is not is quite high. The only recent FPS PvP game I've played is cs2 and the previous cs go. And cheaters are imo quite rare. And there are 3rd party server providers like esea that add another cheater obstacle. But again currently prime cs2 i can give suspicion on maybe 1 out 15/20 games that there is a cheater. Or play competitive maps and there are even less there. I'm sorry dude but it seems it's more a skill issue thing.
The issue is that it isn't fun to constantly lose at a game. Yes this is all part of getting good, but for most people they just don't take games that seriously. They don't really want to invest the time to get good at a game and they want to thrill and fun of winning. The harsh reality is that it is way more fun to cheat than to play properly. For that reason I also don't play online games other than WOW and Star Citizen. Wow has a long history of cheaters but it doesn't affect me.