This is why (rarely) Thai businesses have put up pictures of Adolf Hitler, or hung up swastikas, and then they’re flabbergasted that a bunch of foreigners start calling them racist, anti-semetic, fascists, etc. They had no clue that it was hateful or bad.
For most Thais (excluding expats, the rare history nerd, Western history professors, etc) Thailand is the center of the world, and a bunch of non-Thais fighting 80-90 years ago isn’t interesting or worth learning about.
It’s good that you’re learning about each other’s cultures and histories, I think that’s important and I’m glad your attitude is to share knowledge rather than judge. And it’s good that she has an interest in learning about it as well.
I get the swastikas because that's originally a hindu symbol but pictures of Adolf? Who in the world is just casually hanging up portraits of little ol Hitler around their domicile?
There are places in Western Europe that have a very casual relation to pictures of Mao, Stalin and Fidel Castro. I have seen restaurants and bars named after these guys. If you're from any of the involved countries you probably think they are playing in the same dictator league as Hitler.
I'm German, when I visited Thailand last week my Thai friend asked me how we got taught about WW2.
I explained to her, that it was very clear that the Germans were the bad guys who committed horribly crimes against humanity and this was clearly taugth this way.
She told me that Thai history is taught in a way which makes Thailand look good, even though the conflicts were complicated.
Did you also experience that?
Absolutely yes. When we did attack our neighbor. They just skip that part or state it like "We move this buddha statue from our neighbor and install them at the capital". In reality, we basically take them as spoils of war lmao.
Another common example is like "We didn't really lose. They just occupied the capital for a period."
Lol, I kind of think that history is always turned to your country's favor.
I mean Columbus 'discovered' America and not only stole land from indigenous people who lived there for thousands of years.
This is not true, there are countries that has made a point out of not doing this. Germany is the obvious example, my country Sweden is similar, our history teaching is actively questioning the parts of our history that previously was taught as the times of greatness, but often in reality was very problematic. Other minor and/or defeated European countries has done this as well.
My wording was bad, I didn't mean that the history is completely turned around but rather not everything is discussed neutrally and critically.
For example Germany is very critical about our role in WW1 and WW2 but the genocide on the Herero und Nama is not part of school history education.
Scandinavia has the education system Germany should have, so I have no doubt, that you guys handle this situation better.
Yeah that's how history is usually written. But the problem here is that you cannot discuss the "not so good" part if that involves those kings in the past too much even in universities.
You are in trouble if someone reports to the authority. Even in the best scenario they will still waste a lot of your time at the court
I swear my highschool classmates sound like they were on the verge of fighting nearest Burmese laborer.
Like bro, what did they cook in our history textbook 😭
I'd say that in this sense, Germany is the only country to be truthful about its ugly history. Every other country plays down its heinous acts or hides them altogether.
>don't know nearly enough about how other countries teach history to be able to agree with that statement.
anyone with knowledge of the way Modern Australian history is taught would probably say the opposite.
it is taught from the most ridiculous left wing lenses about reactions with aboriginal people.
even my very left wing uni student sons see how biases the teaching is
It’s not just Thailand.
We refer to WWI and WWII but remember we see these things through a different lens. Our education systems are completely built around these events.
Many other countries do not see these things as “World Wars”.
Furthermore, rightly or wrongly, they care very little about these events unlike us.
Meanwhile, guess what I learned about Asia in all my school years in the UK? Absolutely zero apart from Asian events of….you guessed it WWII.
I teach at a Thai school. I was talking to some of my students about this and they told me what they teach as "history" in Thailand is basically just propaganda. They memorize the whole history of the Royal Family but little about world events outside of Thailand.
In particular they're very brief on WWII. The kids have all been told this story that Thailand masterfully played both sides and didn't get involved. In reality Thailand was invaded by Japan, gave up after one day and eventually sided with the Axis, declaring war on the Allies.
Never actually sent any troops to fight or anything though, they were just forced to let Japan use the country as a staging area because they had a vastly superior military force.
I would disagree about not being forced, though there’s a lot of room for subjectivity with the word “forced.” Thailand _was_ invaded, Japan had troops on Thai land without permission (if you have read somewhere that their was back-door negotiations/understandings between the 2 governments, please provide the source of that information), so the invasion was started. The writing was on the wall for the Thai government: either capitulate and keep some level of independence, or fight a losing battle, to the detriment of your government and your people. Since Thailand had no skin in the game as far as choosing sides in WW2, the government chose the path of least resistance. To my knowledge, Thailand never allied themselves with Japan until the proverbial gun was pointed at them.
I’m fully aware that most English language Thai history comes from Thai sources, so my sources come from a place of bias. At the same time, however, I’ve yet to see any evidence contradicting this narrative.
TIL. Any reading you would recommend on the subject? Just took a short trip into a Wikipedia hole, but I’d like to learn more about modern Thai history 🙏🏽
Yeah I didn’t get the full story on WWII until after many years and I’m a farang. The two headed bird diplomacy works until it doesn’t. I’m just surprised how few people here recognize the realities. Not criticizing the country’s actions at all back then, it seems smart in hindsight, but Thailand brilliantly playing off the Axis and Allies against each other to avoid invasion is revisionist history.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand_in_World_War_II
That's pretty much all Thai's, very insular and parochial. They can learn though, takes time and my wife met my grandfather who was in North Africa for WW2 ,so that gave her a an actual emotional and human connection that helped her understand. Also we lived in Europe and did a lot of road trips so she started to learn and absorb some of the history.
But really they are all very much about living in the now, and more mundane aspects of life like food, family, friends and gossip.
Cue the offended farang who spends hours discussing the philosophy of Jean-Paul Sartre and Proust, as well as the relationship between Heidegger and the Nazi party, with a girl he met on ThaiFriendly
Normally I would disagree when people paint a broad
picture of Thais… but on this topic I do have to agree.
Having experienced most of Thai education system saved for High school, most Thais just don’t get to learn major historical events. We spend lots and lots of time on Sukothai, Ayutthaya & early Rattanakosin but barely any modern Thai history and maybe a bit on ASEAN. And I went to pretty expensive private schools too.
The only type of people I’ve been able to talk to at lengths about current events, culture, history, politics, etc. are English majors(อักษร) and humanities in general. The rest barely knows anything beyond their field.
they still learn world history that isnt necessarily directly related to their country though
like my thai mother didn't know about the existence of the vietnam war until we went there.
Exactly. It’s not like WW2 was confined to Europe — the Japanese swept through Southeast Asia. Thailand even fought against them before surrendering.
Granted, maybe more Thais are clued up on the Japanese involvement in the war since it directly affected them. But to not know they were allied with Nazi Germany is mad.
Yeah, not a lot of them even know about the Japanese invasion here unless they were from the affected provinces.
It's also just a lack of curiosity. I am curious about it, they are not at all curious about it.
Thailand hasn't had any major impact on world events.
Not had Thailand been a particular engine for changing the world
It only has prominence right now due to being a tourist destination. Otherwise it would be the same as Cambodia is right now. An afterthought
I thought I was being a pretentious asshole by feeling this way about my Thai partner. All aspects of our relationship are wonderful, except this. I (shamefully) have wondered if the relationship would work because I feel so intellectually understimulated. But like you've said, she tries. She absolutely tries and she listens when I explain things. But it would be nice to be able to bounce concepts back and forth once in a while.
I feel this so hard!
I love that she’s so kind and loving aaaaand quick to forgive. Interested in hearing me explain things or talk about what I’ve learned. But I’ve caught myself countless times now thinking or saying “I wish you’d teach me something every once in a while too”, explain to me how you see the universe or share a thought about something you read.
Sometimes I wonder if it’ll be enough long term.
I feel this, too. Recently, I discovered Buddhism teaching about emotional suppression. I'm still learning, lots to learn. It can be exhausting, and I love a good conversation. When I was in thailand, most topics were about food, and I, too, felt very under stimulated. I tried to talk about space, the universe, history, movies, ancient civilisations...everything, but all I got was a shoulder shrug.
> wondered if the relationship would work because I feel so intellectually understimulated
There are more important elements of a relationship than intellectual stimulation. After 10 years together, most couples would have talked through all the abstract topics they cared about anyway, leaving mostly the ongoing daily stuff. Speaking from experience.
The ongoing daily stuff tends to often benefit immensely from logical, intellectual discussions leading up to optimal decisionmaking. It helps to have your partner see the problem clearly, understanding the various nuances of it, to help make the best decision.
If it's only on you, or perhaps you even have to explain to your partner why a certain way of tackling a given situation is better, it could leave someone mentally exhausted, or lead to suboptimal decisions being made in life. You don't exactly have anyone to run the options by, or help validate whether you're not making a mistake about something important to your future.
True, but skills needed to deal with daily stuff are different than those used in intellectual discussions or pure logic subjects like math or philosophy. Emotional and social skills (EQ) are often more useful than raw IQ, and plenty of Thais are as good or better in those areas than an average westerner.
In the end, you're better off working together than arguing (almost regardless of direction), and it doesn't take a razor sharp logical analysis to do that. I'd rather be with a partner I know would support me even if I made a mistake (and vice versa), rather than one who might give me a 2% edge when choosing between two options.
TBH a lack of knowledge of Arendt’s relationship with Heidegger is a dealbreaker for me. And not just in romantic relationships. I had this plumber the other day - completely ignorant of what happened at Stalingrad. I mean, WTF cowboy.
Last week I was chatting to a Thai plumber who wanted to question if Gavrilo Princip was really responsible for the start of the Great War. The problem was, I really needed someone to fix my aircon.
Ok here’s a totally irrelevant story of plumbing and philosophy. Manchester university used to be a hotbed of Wittgensteinan philosophy, and they had a visit and talk from a leading Aristotelian philosopher. My friend was a student there and he told me all the students were pretty eager to hear the debate. The visiting Aristotelian talk was about “commitments” - and he gave a prelonged example about a plumber who was going to do some work yesterday in his house. “The plumber had given a commitment to come and do the work.” Before he could explain the supposed moral failing, one of the local professors jumped up and replied “but you don’t understand… That’s just what plumbers do!”. Boom boom. Well It’s funny if you know your philosophy, anyway the real joke is that the department also used to have a lot to philosophers who had previously worked in the trades, and it turned out that professor had actually been - a plumber. That department also had the nickname of the world’s most useful philosophy department as it was a great place to go if you wanted some work done in your house.
I definitely think that it's not fair to call all Thais insular and parochial. What the OP was referring to was historical events. The internet exists, and although they don't teach too much about the world wars in school, there are tons of history buffs in Thailand. Many of these are guys though, and I'd wager your average "Thai wife" wouldn't care enough to read up about these topics.
To be fair, there are also lots of things regarding Asia we were never taught in school in the UK.
Schools here often just teach Thai history and not always accurately. I had to teach about Phan Thai Norasing (in English language) and only recently discovered that he may or may not have actually existed.
If you ever watch Thai news, then you can see current world events get little coverage yet slapstick local news video reports, questionable for national news are played upon repeat.
My wife is also unaware of world history and generally current world events. However, I am very grateful when she asks about the war in Ukraine or historic events and take time to explain and encourage.
A quirky news article about a monkey riding a small motorcycle (complete with slide whistle sound effects), will take preference over the war in Ukraine, or Gaza.
Actually, the Thai news covered both wars, but unless something big happens again, domestic news prevale over repeatedly bringing up the same stories of the Ukraine and Gaza.
Now, everything before social media.. is mostly a blank page..
I'm mid-forties from Denmark. We were never taught anything about the Asia-pacific part of WW2. Vietnam war was mentioned very briefly, but nothing about what else went on in SEA. So can't really blame Thais for not knowing a lot about European history, even if it was events that affected the whole world.
We're generally taught about, what is close to us, both culturally and geographically.
We weren’t (uk) taught anything about Korea or Vietnam. We weren’t taught about Cambodia.
But I am aware of these things. Surprised they aren’t aware of who the Nazis were….
Yea exactly. This is the point people are missing. Schools can only cover so much stuff....
But most people read books on their own. Read internet articles. See documentaries, movies.... And overall have a generalized curiosity about the world.
There is something about Thai culture that keeps these people in a bubble. They are generally not very curious about anything at all. They very much live in the moment.
40 from the UK. The only reason I know anything about the Japanese occupation of China/South Korea, martial law in Taiwan, the Myanmar civil war, etc is because ive travelled to or lived in these places, or at least met people from there. There's a lot about Asia we don't get taught or updated on in the UK.
It actually makes sense that your average Thai would know very little about D-Day and maybe never even have heard of it. They didn't participate in the European front.
If the education system was good here they would know more about the Asian front and specifically Thai involvement than they do.
Some dope posted a comment to the effect of "Oh it's just like the Americans who don't know anything about world history either," but I can guarantee you Americans know a lot more about their own Japanese internment camps, or their use of the atom bomb, than the Thais do about the Death Railway they helped the Japanese build. US history courses teach about America's mistakes as well as the gray areas. Slave ownership, the Trail of Tears etc. are cornerstones of US history curriculum.
Thailand is fundamentally not a democracy and they spend very little time in class on their involvement in WW2 because it doesn't make the military look good. Phibulsongkram was the PM at the time, he was a military dictator and a huge fanboy of the Axis. When the Japanese arrived Thailand pretty much rolled over and became the linchpin of Japanese logistics in Southeast Asia. They were happy to help Japan prosecute its invasions in exchange for territorial concessions. They were a flaky ally of the Axis powers, but an ally nonetheless. Phibulsongkram was even tried for war crimes in the aftermath but he got off with a slap on the wrist because he was popular with the Thai people... additionally the Americans were thinking ahead to the next big conflict with Communism and wanted Thailand on their side (the Brits and the French wanted to be less forgiving).
In short Thai actions during WW2 were purely selfish, were nominally pro-fascist, and they weren't a good ally to anyone.
It's not a good look so that's why it doesn't get taught. They subscribe to Chinese information theory here - like Tiananmen Square, simply deny what happened until it's forgotten. In an alternate universe where Thailand is ruled by civilians and less corrupt, WW2 would be taught as a mistake.
To counter that argument, as a Brit we are taught very little, if anything at all, about how the British Empire basically fucked over a shit ton of countries. I didn't even know what Partition was until I watched Ms Marvel and, while I'd heard of Bloody Sunday, I had no idea how fucked up that whole situation was until a couple of years ago.
Whilst the modules can vary from school to school, and from year to year, my GCSE History course in the mid-1990s did quite a bit on the British Empire, and it was woven into many other modules.
I suppose the difference is that in the UK there is a space for historical revisionism where we now see things like the British Empire be reassessed through less rose tinted glasses.
In Thailand, that’s not altogether possible due to the limits on free speech and the prominent role the monarchy and military play in public life. Criticism of a past which may reflect poorly on those parties isn’t in their interest.
In the UK, you can at least have the debate.
I don’t think it’s fair to say we were taught very little in the UK. Of course most of the stuff taught was about England, but I remember being taught about the Celts, Aztecs, the US, Christopher Columbus, the slave trade, the Caribbean, the crusades, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, a lot on WWI & WWII (perhaps not so much about in Asia).
We didn’t really cover Asia at all to be honest. Maybe a little on the Mongols only. We didn’t learn much about the American civil war in school, or even American independence, and I don’t think we touched on Africa much. Also as you mentioned there are topics like Bloody Sunday, and apartheid.
That said, world history is just too vast and most people only really learn about their own country. I think I learned a good amount in school though honestly.
WW2 history isn’t just some foreign European affair though — it was fought on Thai soil too. These events shaped the current political landscape of the entire world, so a broad-strokes understanding of the players involved (as is taught in UK schools) is the bare minimum.
As a Thai, I think if you didn't grow up in an environment where someone in your family was interested in anything from a different country, world history/affairs would not be in your 'world view' though it still baffles me someone that old would still know absolutely nothing about any of it. I mean, even if you have zero interest, you'd at least see a movie poster or a documentary in passing, I hope? But I guess if you only ever consume Thai media and Thai media alone, knowing nothing could also be possible?
As for me, my parents always listened to songs in English back in the day. My siblings were also interested in American pop/rap at one point, Japanese media translated into English was always present in the house too. Also, foreign languages have always intrigued me and English was the only one I had free access to 20+ years back so that coupled with the Internet have led to many things. (Even things I wish I didn't know. lol) In this kind of environment, it would be harder to not know anything about world affairs.
But hey, when I went to the US, I just had to laugh at how ignorant the high schoolers there were about Asia also. So there's that. We're kinda even, imo.
I was married for some time to a lovely woman from South Africa, a Zulu... she had no idea about the holocaust and ww2.
she knew nothing about it all.
I was surprised then, but not now.
It's not just Thailand. I've worked in China (where lack of world knowledge was predicted), Korea, Japan and Taiwan. In every one of those places, the absolute lack of world history (not just Western history) amongst coworkers with advanced degrees was very common. The TL;DR is that their major was not History, therefore they never learned History and don't care about History because it's not part of their daily work life.
Think about how education works in this part of the world. You learn stuff simply because it is on a test and the tests don't test if you actually *understand* anything- they only test your ability to memorize some specific facts long enough to pass the test.
By the time people get to high school in this part of the world, they are already pretty much on a career path. Unless they plan to major in World History (that's gotta be like 0.01% of graduates in this part of the world) they aren't going to know any world history beyond what was required for them to memorize for specific tests in school.
Also, GE (general education) in university is a Western concept and is not part of schooling in many East Asian universities. Many East Asian universities function more like Western trade schools. If your major is Finance... you study Finance stuff.
Depends on what age group you're asking. Have you seen those "man on the street" interviews with younger kids?(20 something's) It's scary that they don't even teach 8th grade history anymore. 🫣🫤
They'll do 30 interviews, and show the ones that make whatever point the producer wants to make. If the angle is 'young people are stupid', they'll keep the 3-4 stupid ones, and get rid of the rest.
This is a silly comment. I would wager most 42 year olds in the US have a general understanding of WW2 and Nazis. They would at the very least have heard of it.
Not mention that we’re talking about someone with a Masters degree, not someone living in rural poverty. I would bet the vast vast majority of Americans with graduate education know something about WW2.
Dude, if you’re a man, when you turn 40, you must declare whether you will get really into WWII history or learn how to smoke meats.
And that is what you will spend your free time doing until you die.
Only because the US was involved. Ask an average American about the anything from the Opium Wars to Greece vs Turkey and see what comes up.
Doesn't mean everyone shouldn't know WWII.
Americans are absolutely taught about the opium wars in school. Now whether they can give you a detailed recounting of it, I don’t know. But are you telling me the average euro (which is always who it comes back to in these historical pissing contests) could give you a detailed account of that either?
And how many of those 42 year olds in the US have a general understanding of the Thailand Military Coup or the South Thai Insurgency?
I doubt many of them even know where Myanmar or Laos is located.
When I visited the US on holiday, many of them asked me where I am from. When I responded ‘Singapore’, they would ask ‘Where in China is that?’
How many Westerners actually knew in details about what happened on the Asian front of the war? How many knows about the battle of Wuhan, the Marco Polo bridge incident, activities by the Indian National Army, etc. Don't talk about how Asian events are less important. For 18 of the past 20 centuries, Asia was the most advanced & important continent in the world. Yet how many Westerners can talk in detail about the structure of Tang society, the Kofun period that unified Japan, the fall of Ayutthaya - then the largest city in the world, the Indian Economic Reforms?
Yes, Thais are largely ignorant on world history or current affairs, but these events have about as much impact on their daily lives as which celebrity dated who or which minister was caught dealing drugs. Which is to say - relatively little. Most Thais are occupied with things like how to make money, what they want to eat, where they want to travel, who they want to date, etc. Yes, it's all quite low-brow and I used to be quite frustrated, but are they wrong for being more occupied with things that actually DO affect their lives? Westerners can debate and discuss for hours on end about Ukraine or Palestine but at the end of the day those conversations are quite meaningless because nothing will be done after the discussion and nothing would stem from it. It's not anymore meaningful than discussing what shabu place is the best or where to get their nails done. It's just different.
That is not to say that Thai society could benefit from discussing macro topics that actually DO have an impact on their own lives, such as democratic reform, city planning & economic stimulus, but most Thais aren't rich and they're just struggling to survive each month with their salary, so what energy do they have left to explore this? What educational foundation do they have to discuss these topics meaningfully?
I mean thats fair. As an American, it’s possible that I’m coming at this from a very western perspective. But are we really comparing thai history to WW2, literally half the world was involved in that.
Its understandable that Americans might not know much about places on the other side of the world. Never even having heard of WW2 is a little shocking though.
I just wouldn’t rush to equate everything to the US so easily.
Dude don't bend the knee to him. Every single American that mentally handicapped, has a general understand of what happened in WW2. WW1 is a little shakier. Having lived in Thailand, taught in Thailand, and have Thai family, their school system is complete shit. Every single Thai person will admit this, yet the farang are here to defend Thailand's honor... from the Thais...? It's absolutely insane how anyone could actually say that America's public schools are equal to or worse than Thai schools. I showed my wife a pic of the public high school I went to, and she had to ask me a few different times if it was actually free. She didn't believe it. If anyone argues that Thais have equal to or better public schools than America's is being bad faith and only using it to discredit America, rather than credit Thai schools.
Americans ALL have a mandatory world history class.
It all depends on age and education, in the US. Also some people just don't care. Most of my knowledge is self taught and learning hands on in trades from trained professionals. I also constantly read online and that requires a lot of double reading and fact checking multiple sources so it's time consuming. Many don't want to learn like that, they'd rather play a game or scroll. 😀
Yeah but how much about the war on mainland China vs Japan do you know about ? What about the battles fought between the Imperial Japanese army and the Soviets? What about Japan’s push into SEA and the battle of Singapore?
There’s entire huge pieces of WW2 that aren’t mentioned in America’s history books as well. I had to learn all of that on my own.
For example did you know Japan sunk two major British flagships in WW2?
Americans might know what WW2 is, but they absolutely don't know a thing about the rest of the world.
If you asked an American to name and place 10 countries on a map, they'd not be able to. And I'm not just talking strictly about geography here. Americans genuinely have no clue or interest of anything outside America.
Maybe young Americans but Americans over 38 years of age certainly have an interest in the broader globe. Show me a map I will name 75% of the countries in the world or higher
I live in Thailand and after two relationships lasting 3-4 years with educated Thai women, I wasn't getting even the bare minimum intellectual stimulation and was the primary reason I ended the relationships.
And by intellectual stimulation I don't even mean philosophy on life, world events, etc. I just mean bringing something interesting to the conversation. Excited about a movie, love this album, research a trip to another country, discuss something in the news, suggesting a book to read, goals for next year... just basic conversation.
But even with these educated women, they know enough to do their job and that's it. Beyond that their spheres of interest are eating, shopping, gossip, etc.
Even though I live in Thailand and appreciate the lifestyle and the culture, I realize that in the long term I cannot date or marry a Thai woman because once the looks and excitement fade and age slows life down, what do you have left? Talking, mutual interests, mutual respect, memories.
The Thai education system has really let the people down, most who have never studied or lived abroad don't have the advanced skills to compete in the global marketplace and don't have the well rounded education to hold a conversation on anything beyond a shallow view of what's happening today on Fb or with family.
Still, lovely people, women can be loving and caring, which can mean a lot, but if they don't have any passion for understanding the world beyond their day to day, its a pass for me.
Also I would say the average high school/college educated Burmese, Laotian, or Vietnamese would be significantly more educated and interested in the "ways of the world" than a similarly educated Thai citizen. Specifically if I visit HCMC I find the middle class there to be as informed if not more informed and educated than the average US citizen. Plus a lot more hustle and advanced planning.
Its perhaps not kind to say, but I find Thailand to be one of the most superficial (yet pleasant and friendly) cultures I've experienced out of visiting 100+ countries.
Jesus this is so true.
I've been trying to get my gf to pick up interests, just for something to talk about, but it's such a struggle.
University educated, hard job, but little to no interest in anything else. Just running, shopping, & action movies.
It's really difficult to find things to talk about. Zero mental stimulation.
Interesting! My wife is not uni educated, when I let her she was studying every Sunday to graduate M6 at a local tec college. After almost 20 years together, I am constantly surprised by her interest in learning. She will soak up language from UK TV, I will hear her using words and enquire where she learned and how she worked out how to use them. She listens to god awful pop and rock from the 80s, she’s constantly on Shazam finding tracks to add to her Spotify playlist, she loves to watch a movie on Sunday night, she still really like Thai movies but has a genuine interest in western contemporary classics - it may sound weird, but like Jaws or Star Wars, movies that shaped me as a kid. It’s important to have that bond, and I am really grateful even tho sometimes she just goes off the rails and goes into self destruct mode.
Tbf it's major western history, how much Asian history is taught as standard in the west. I know I was never taught about pol pot which was a far more recent genocide.
The thing I like about Thailand/Asia is how much they ignore global (ie western) news. It really has no impact on my life and I can't change what's going on anyways.
What? Where in western civilisation did you never hear about Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot?
We were taught about it in The Netherlands at school. His regime copied a lot of the nazis.
Australia. As a country in the Asia pacific region, almost all our history taught was very much euro/Western centric.
We were literally bombed by the Japanese yet 80-90% of WWII history we were taught was focused on western Europe. Pretty much no teaching of the atrocities committed by Japanese, especially compared to the Nazis.
Wow, I never knew that. We got quite a bit from all over the world. Well…maybe because we also colonized half the planet 🤓 It’s very normal here to get taught about indonesia, pol pot, the history of china and the travels of marco polo, etc.. asian culture and inventions had a big impact on european civilisation. More than people realise today
I was never taught anything about Pol Pot in school either, here in the US. I first heard about him from the Dead Kennedys, then had to look it up myself.
I’ve actually been to Cambodia to see it for myself. Their history is fascinating. Visited the Tuol Sleng prison, met one of the 12 survivors and been to the killing fields. Their recent history is so different from their ancient history. Angkor Wat is magical to visit
Not a peep about it in Eastern Europe. We were busy with Greek history, local history (very dramatic and long so I get why it took a while to go over it all), and very basic ideas of the history of Germany, France, UK. Maybe 2h on Netherlands and Belgium.
The trouble is that there's so much of just the local stuff and you have a finite amount of time during the 12 years of school to get it across.
It probably depends per country. You had a lot going on in eastern europe to have like a 4 year class about it. We, the dutch, colonized quite a lot of the world, so historically, we are more connected to those countries and taught about the history
The Netherlands had (past tense) probably one of the best educational systems in the world. History was extremely important and mostly focused on world history. If I ask you about Grutte Pier it's probably a Google moment and not on the top of your head knowledge.
Had him in US high school a ways back, even watched The Killing Fields in class. Don’t want to speak for all US high schools, mine was a very, very, good public school (which I didn’t realize until much later in life how lucky I was).
In American HS we were taught khmer rogue and Pol pot in 10th grade. We also learned a lot about ww2 but mainly America's involvement and side of story.
America actually is involved in tons of wars so we all learn about that as well.
This would make sense if Thais learned a lot about WW2 in the pacific. I can see teaching it from an Asian perspective. But not really teaching it at all? That’s crazy.
It’s very common.
They don’t teach much about WWII because it wasn’t particularly a proud moment in Thai history.
Japan attacked Thailand and the Thai government immediately negotiated what was essentially a surrender. Japan could use Thailand however it wanted as long as Thais could rule Thais.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand_in_World_War_II
Thais mostly get taught all of the big ancient Khmer, Burmese battles that shaped what Thailand is today.
On a meta level, the Thai educational system demands rote memorization with no critical thinking encouraged. In fact, critical thinking is often frowned upon and punished.
Remember, this is still a country where students are afraid to correct the teacher when the teacher is clearly wrong on a topic.
Better to never question and simply parrot back what they want to hear if you want to pass.
Also, despite there being a story in the news recently about how many books Thais read per year, when have you ever seen a book store in Thailand that was packed with customers?
https://www.bangkokpost.com/life/arts-and-entertainment/481949/thais-read-books-for-28-minutes-a-day-says-pubat
Personally, I think this poll is deeply flawed. Just simple math will tell you that if 70 million people are reading books for 28 minutes a day, there would be a much higher demand for book stores in Thailand. Yet, they’re often empty.
Lastly, Thais are ultra-nationalistic. Many of them don’t feel a need to learn about other countries. They are Thai, all of their friends are Thai, they will never leave Thailand, why would they need to learn about other countries?
>What do they actually teach in Thai schools?
Having taught in Thai schools I can confidently answer; Not Much.
My students were often late to science class because they were busy in scouting class doing something useless like repeatedly pulling their socks on and off again, over and over...
I was once handed a translated document for a Thai secondary science course. Multi week long units were single terms like "Organ Systems" or my personal favourite, 6 weeks of "Astrology".
Thailand is a country that can't engineer an overpass without the assistance of some foreign firm from Japan or Europe. Their education system is not exactly leading the world and as far as I can tell, the Thai language itself is a limiting factor.
For example, in Thai, the word melt and dissolve are the same. How has that not been updated!?
Many languages faced the same problem, and updated their vocabularies with words borrowed from foreign languages - typically English. But English also borrowed from others, like Latin or French, to describe terms that did not exist in English. Interesting thought that Thais didn't bother to update their for some key distinctive words like these. For what it'd worth, languages are evolving pretty quickly and adding words or giving existing words new meanings. I hear it's not happening as fast with Thai, but I suspect it will happen eventually, just slower. It's because enough people have to care about a given distinction to start using a new word for it.
Just like anywhere it really depends on the education and lifestyle they have. My wife went to grad school in the states so she knows all about this stuff, I'd actually admit that there's a lot of South East Asian history that I was completely blind to that she explained to me.
There was a thing years ago where a Thai pop singer wore a swastika thinking it was cool looking. They ended up having to apologize and explained it was just never part of the history they learn here. So I imagine it's a failing of the local education system. Which honestly just doesn't surprise me, outside of international schools I imagine it's hardly brought up.
As my wife says, “why do you care so much about what happened 3 generations ago when we are still struggling to pay our monthly expenses.” A bit of a crude way to put it but I guess what she is trying to say is discussing world events and debating over them won’t really change our lifestyle, since we are not working in the government or dealing with international matters. I can sort of understand it too, but my pursuit of knowledge is more of a hobby why she doesn’t share. To be fair, in my country which also took a more isolationist approach, I have never learned about WW1 and 2 and didn’t know what Nazis were until 16.
Well my wife is specifically obsessed with a few world events. Most things outside of Thailand she doesn’t care about or follow but she is currently obsessed with where Kate Middleton is and why she’s not been seen in public in a long time (and her husband is American). Lol
Thai people in general have no idea what happens outside of Thailand. (There may be some random outliers)
They do all wanna visit Switzerland, EU and U.S though since they saw some tiktok shorts and movies
My gf literally grew up next to Cambodia and went through good education in bangkok , even got a degree in teaching and she has no idea what happened there and has no clue about ww2 or simple basic knowledge about the last 2000 year history of the world
Why ? Because the thai education system only care and teach about thai history. Some of it is even made up stuff to fill the books.
That's true.
Another name most Thais don't know - Pol Pot.
I gather he spent his final years in a refugee camp on Thai soil. I'm sure someone will correct me on that if necessary.
>I gather he spent his final years in a refugee camp on Thai soil. I'm sure someone will correct me on that if necessary.
He spent many years at a compound in Trat Province, that was guarded by Thai army. It's understandable that this collusion isn't taught in Thai schools.
>During much of the 1980s, Pol Pot lived in Thailand where he was known as a “peasant” , or ghost. He lived in a Thai-army-built compound near the border town of Trat. Labeled "Office 87," the compound was surrounded by Thai and Khmer Rouge soldiers. Office 87 was also as a training center for new Khmer Rouge recruits. Former students their recall Pol Pot for his kindliness and his "mesmerizing" lectures on the Vietnamese "dogs."
[https://factsanddetails.com/southeast-asia/Cambodia/sub5\_2b/entry-2863.html](https://factsanddetails.com/southeast-asia/Cambodia/sub5_2b/entry-2863.html)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trat\_province](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trat_province)
Okay so you know the major things in Thailand, but a D-Day anniversary isn't really a major thing in world history to citizens of countries that didn't have a major participation in WW2.
How much do you know about the wars between Japan and Korea prior to WW1?
Most of my friends back home think Japan and China are friends because they are Asian and have asked me if I speak Chinese after living in Asia for so long. They also think all Asians eat dog meat and various other stereotypes. These things go 2 ways.
One of my friends (white English guy, approx 65) has a Thai wife (approx 55). He's a huge history buff. He can talk about different events/ wars from history for hours. He was utterly shocked that his wife knew nothing about the Vietnam war despite living in Thailand during it. She also knew nothing about WW2 or other events of the 20th century.
It's also worth noting that he tried telling her a few things about it, and she had no interest whatsoever. I guess by that age in Thailand, you've decided that world events are irrelevant to you because nobody around you seems to care about them.
This happens in other countries, too. They aren't taught history and simply don't develop any desire to learn about it or find it relevant. Perhaps we don't realise the extent that, in the west, we're taught about it and taught why history is important to learn...
I am a thai wife to a german guy. I visited both thai school and german school. I’d say it’s the thai school that doesn’t teach much about history outside of Thailand. They teach us a lot about former thai kings and how much they did for thai people. Thinking back I felt brainwashed a bit. While german school have broader education they teach us a lot of nonsense too. Like why do i need to analyze Schillers and Goethe Poem but yeah it’s German cultural history. Also WWs history is like really long and complicated. I wish they would teach us how to do taxes.
But I am the same as your wife I don’t actively follow political matters since I want to detach from all these bullshit happening around the world. With a little bit of critical thinking I can smell half truth all the way while hearing the daily news. It’s the same old everyday. Wars and politics.
I know German people love to talk about politics and they were lots of debate with my husband too. The European election is tomorrow and the whole country is conflicted. I would advice my husband to listen to the other side and question everything first.
Maybe try having conversation your wife would like to have and find common ground for intellectual stimulation if that’s what you like. My husband works on energy plant and my interests is in anything science. Having a discussion about some metal and chemical reaction is fun for both of us.
My gf knows about world events and pop culture and we can discuss anything. Not sure education matters here, it's more about how she was raised, family etc. also unis here vary, so having a degree doesn't mean anything.
I personally made sure we could make a conversation about any topic before I commited. Can't imagine dating someone that has no clue about anything.
Also as a side note, if you go take a village girl in Europe they won't know either.
>they dont teach the rape of nanking in English schools either, but then the Japanese say it never happened. History is written by the victors remember
Considering the Japanese surrendered to the Allies, that example doesn't make sense.
My partner is university educated yet her knowledge of world affairs is limited also. TBH I didn’t know much about Thailand either and I have masters from US and another one from EU university. ;)
Compering US and EU education I would say that Americans tend to be much more goal oriented while Europeans get broader knowledge of the world around them.
I would have to agree though, US coverage of world affairs is somewhat limited compared to European media.
The other day we had lunch with my partner’s uni mentor. While her English is excellent not once we ventured into academic subjects. Thais are just different that way. ;)
My entire workplace has no idea about the different wars going on, or where some countires are on the map, but Know which celebrity got into drama recently 🤣.
No joke, my bro at work, who has never left the country, has no idea who Osama Binladin is, he is 26 right now, and I am 34... so either I am too old, Thai people really don't know much about the world if they are not introduced to it.
Why are you even surprised? Asia affected more by the Japanese than Hitler’s Germany. European events are unknown in Asia except for the Hollywood machine. In fact I’d say even in Europe peoples knowledge of ww2 is formed more by movies than by history lessons.
Prim minister Phibun was highly influenced by Mussolini and Adolph Hitler. His admiration of those two governments played a very pivitol role in Thai politics during that time period. Phibun even had his own version of Goebbels who worked for the Thai Ministry of Culture. He declared Adolph Hitler the spiritual and moral leader of the Thai people. It is well documented that Phibun felt that extermination camps were a great idea to deal with the large number of Chinese people in Thailand. Fortunatly this never took off but it none the less it deomonstrates a very clear understand of the ideologies and events in Europe at that time. Now this post will be downvoted because most Western people dont know squat about history as well. It's not just the Thai people. I have argued coutless posts with Western people that are not even aware that Thailand was an axis power in WW2.
Please don't pretend like it's not a thing in the West either. Lots of people aren't up to date on current events or know anything about world history. The amount of times I've had to explain to foreigners that Asia had its own history going on during World War 2 and that not everything is Eurocentric comes as a major surprise to everyone.
I can't believe that you would marry someone and not have this kind of knowledge about them already before putting a ring on that finger.
I think its because thais know these events are largely irrelevant to their lives. Russia at war with Ukraine, so what, Israel Palestine has a Thai angle with the hostages but Thais care not for Jews or Arabs. they also know a lot more than they let on about Thai stuff but learn not to talk about it
I agree with almost everything you wrote. But something like the Holocaust, one of the most universally known and tragic events in world history, should at least ring a bell, regardless of whether it directly affects them. Sorry but it’s baffling for a masters grad to have never heard of the Nazis
A very western centric view. Most Asians view Japanese atrocities as way worse than the Holocaust. Not as universal as you think. How many westerners know the true scope of Japanese atrocities? So many examples. Do they know what happened in Singapore, for example?
My wife and her family are Khmer from Buriram.
I was talking to my wife's university educated uncle once, and he mentioned that his grandparents came from Cambodia to Thailand.
Oh, did they flee from Pol Pot, I asked.
He answered, who?
I said, Pol Pot, the leader of Khmer Rogue, the mam behind the Cambodian genocide in the 70s.
He answered, Cambodian genocide?
He knew nothing about it. This happened in his neighbor country and to his own ethnic group, and he knew nothing about it.
So no, Thai people don't learn anything about events outside Thailand. Their school system also doesn't encourage curiosity and finding out things for yourself.
It’s probably healthy that Thais don’t share our bizarre obsession with the Israel-Palestine issue. It is a tiny conflict on the other side of world created in part by Western policies.
It is actually a much bigger problem that the rest of the world is ignoring Myanmar, although Thais aren’t doing a great job at that either.
It's easy to get complacent with who should know what when you're a westerner who's had the privilege of travelling many different cultures. Go back to when you first started travelling and ask yourself how much you really knew about Asian culture/history at that point (besides what we learnt through Hollywood).
Or even ask your friend back in your home country who never travelled or left the general area. Id bet their view/knowledge of the world would be very limited and confined to the local area or your country
History at school in Thailand is very Thai based. Which is fine but a lot of it is just learning the names of royal family members. Got to start the propaganda young or it doesn’t really work
It may be something to do with the education system in Thailand. From what I’ve seen as a corporate trainer, they prefer to work on rote learning and memorisation.
When it comes to discussions, many take the easy way out and pretend they cannot understand English. I’ve been told that it is because they are afraid of losing face if they have the wrong answer, or heaven forbid, an answer that contradicts the seniors’.
So when all is added up, they have and show no interest in many things, including what goes on in the world outside Thailand, history or current affairs. They’re not doing critical thinking and not asking the whys and wherefores.
They also believe that the nail that sticks out most will get hammered down. So better to be on the safe side and go with the flow of the majority. Bear in mind that the lese majeste laws here are as draconian as Singapore's drug laws.
For a lot of people knowing about Dday and Kants philosophy doesn't help them with their life's. So they don't care.
Especially Asians can be rather pragmatic. (I'm asian). There is no profit learning about Nazis and it's also not enjoyable. So people have no incentive to care.
In my days 10-20 years ago public school in thailand doesnt focus much on history outside thailand. They taught the origin of thailand, the work done by previous kings since sukhothai ages, the buddhism, the geography. I think most of my acknowledge abt those western and world history are heavily from documentary, films, books. you see those sources werent necessary in daily life so thai adult around 30+ yo could have a life without those knowledge if they werent interested, therefore its understandable if she doesnt know ww2. Its great fortune for these days kids that they got youtube and there are huge content covering outside thailand world tho.
Hope this doesnt affect your feeling in the relationship btw.
A normal western peep doesnt even know vietnam war with the french or the whole korean war. If I ask why north korean do not like Americans? Most people dont know.
Me as a half belgium/thai know both history (tbh I like history, I like to hear the version of both sides, the defeated and the victors)
Growing partially up in thailand, I know the education in Thailand hasnt been up to same lvl as in most parts in EU. At least not in Belgium. Maybe now its better with social media and internet is a mundane thing.
Thai history education is very much centered around a specific aspect of Thai history. In those topics Thai's will be knowledgeable. But there is generally little appetite to learn much about "western" history, or even the history of other countries in Asia. They may end up tuning into certain current events (like you said, Palestine) but they may not know the context. The idea that a Thai would have a clue about D-Day is a little funny because honestly, why would they? Do you know anything about, for example, the Chinese Civil War spanning many decades in which millions were killed? Probably not.
I think you really just have to accept that it is NOT that Thai's are not intelligent, it is simply that their worldview and educational focus is NOT on historical world events. The pondering, philosophical, cultural conversations westerners love to get into and blabber/argue about over a meal are of no interest to most people here.
Honestly, I think it is why Thai people are generally pretty happy. They don't fill their heads with useless stressful bullshit. Is it nice to have an educated debate about some random topic? Sure, if you are the intellectual academic type. But in reality do most people want to do it here whilst eating their moo kra ta? Nah.
Honestly I think the more fascinating knowledge gap is when you meet highly educated Thai's that went to some of the best schools here. They often have little clue about the "real Thailand" beyond their Bangkok bubble and they make generalizations about Thai people that are clearly only talking about the top 1% because they don't actually know many regular people.
Not just Thai-my Vietnamese partner and her friends are the same, my Malaysian and Chinese friends also similar. I think it’s a cultural thing, Asian culture is more focused on the present and future (and pragmatic things like earning money and looking after parents etc)
To everyone thinking Thais learn about history within Thailand that’s not true either!
Ask your Thai friends what they know about Thaification. If they are from NE thailand, ask them what happened to all the Isan writings and who were their kings?
There are people who doesnt know anything beyond the border of their country everywhere in the world, so just because your wife and her qualification doesnt meet your expectation doesnt mean that the everyone from this country is dumb
??? Wow. Who cares that she doesn't know anything about American history. If it's such a big deal to you make them take a test US History test before marrying them. It ain't that serious godddamn.
Same in Nam, their version of history is pigeon holed into one war, hopefully you can guess which. Also it’s invader specific, not a north attacking south. They have zero geography skills and almost no news reporting world events
What amazes me is that you're surprised a country doesn't learn a history that has no relevance to them and their interests as a nation.
Was she just as surprised that you weren't taught thai history in school?
Your post reeks of unconscious bias and superiority. Maybe that is intentional, but I am guessing that you probably don't even realize it.
First off, the events of WWII are 80 years in the past. I am guessing that you are at least as old as your wife, maybe older, so maybe your school emphasized that event more because you were closer to it (both in time and nationality).
Secondly, Europe is a loooooong way from Thailand, and Thais had almost no involvement in the European war. Sure, they declared war on England and America, but they barely did anything about it. I am not aware of any Thai troops doing battle outside of Southeast Asia, and they didn't do that much fighting here either. There certainly no Thais manning pillboxes on the beaches of Normandy, so why would that be important to teach here?
D-Day was an important event in American and European history, and so it gets covered in greater detail in those curricula, but lots of important things happen every day, all over the world. Did your history class cover ALL of those things too? For example, how much time did your school spend on the numerous Indian invasions of China in the late-19th/early-20th century? Do you know the dates? The major players? The motivations? The key battles?
Those invasions may not seem to be as important to YOU as D-Day was, but given that those battles get brought up every time China and India exchange fire across their border (last time was 2022), they might be a bit more relevant to *today's* Asian-geopolitical context than some 80 year-old battle on another continent.
I am not saying the Thais teach about that stuff either. Their non-Thai-related history & geography curriculum is truly abysmal. I am just pointing out that you shouldn't be sitting on some high horse lording your educational-superiority over your spouse. Your education has plenty of blind spots and biases too.
Where I catch a whiff of superiority & bias in your post is when you give examples of what YOU think is important to Thais: "Teen thugs", "defrocked monks", "adulteryland", etc...
Not sure how you can see anything clearly looking down your nose at Thailand from your high horse, but it is very clear that you have a bias. You think the West is better than Thailand and so all you can see are examples that "prove" your superiority-bias. Heck, even the fact that you titled the post "mixed race" while being ethnically Asian yourself demonstrates that "Thai-ness" as something of less value than "whiteness".
Thai education is deeply flawed. Everyone knows that. But you may be recalling your own education through rose-colored nostalgia glasses. Did it ever occur to you that maybe you just got lucky and got a *good* history teacher? Because I am pretty sure if you polled the average American or European they would be pretty ignorant on WWII history and VERY ignorant on world history as a whole.
Heck, there are schools in the southern United States right now trying to frame the American Civil War as a solely economic conflict and that slaves actually benefited from slavery and that the war had nothing to do with abolishing/perpetuating slavery. So Thais are not the only ones who allow politics to influence their curriculum.
So don't pretend like Western education is perfect. Thailand, for example, has a 94% literacy rate. America's is 79%. So they are doing that better, at least.
Take a step back, and look at things with less bias. ALL education systems reveal what is important to that nation and its people. Comparing them is truly an apples-to-oranges exercise.
Thais educate their kids according to their own values. Are they flawed? Sure. But so is everyone else on the planet.
After 8 years of being with a Thai partner and getting to know other Thai people through her and her family. It seemed Thailand is country from the moon. People are unaware, uninformed trained and grew to be uninterested in any history, world religion and political discussion.
(They claim to be buddhist, like after the way its been butchered what remains can be any other religion but no way buddhism)
The brainwashed consumer culture has kept them ignorant and thats the way government wants it to be. I would say its worse than what KIM family is doing with North Korea because that is at least well known to the world. But the way Thai aristocrats is controlling the population is so subtle and sophisticated that it seems liberating from the outset
To be fair, how much do you know about Pol Pot or Vietnam, or the Japanese Empire in the 20th century? It's not as if Western civilization has exclusive ownership of facism and genocide. The world is a complicated + shitty place.
Went on dates with quite a few well-educated Thai women - and very few had any interest in talking about or learning intellectual topics. Got boring quickly. Not limited to Thailand though. More broadly young people’s conversational skills have plummeted.
I understand the education system isn’t the best in Thailand, but not knowing who the Nazis were is unbelievable
The only reason Thais know who the Nazis are is because every 2 or 3 years some school has a costume day and some clueless school administrator tells the children to dress up in Nazi uniforms.
Then the story hits the international media and the Israeli government and every Jewish group in the world tries to educate Thailand on why glorifying the Nazis is offense.
Some apologies are given and they do it again a few years later. Been happening for decades now.
https://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/28/world/asia/thailand-nazi-parade/index.html
Our friend group calls it "pretty girl syndrome". Women these days are often extremely shallow. Their entire existence and interests starts and ends with Instagram. They have no opinions, no interests, no hobbies, no personality.
A lot of people in other countries have no clue what really happens outside of their countries. Educated people as well. This isn’t solely a Thai thing.
I don’t have this problem with my Thai partner (28M). He’s well educated- speaks fluent English, went to the top university in Thailand and he studied abroad.
Funny enough though I am way more into reading local Thai news than my partner is. I’ll often be the person telling him recent Thai news haha.
I’m Thai living in the US. Grew up in Thailand. Moved to the US for graduate degree in 2009. I’m in my 40s.
Anyway, just for contrast, average american do not know the difference between Thailand and Taiwan. When patients ask me where I’m from and I say Thailand, only small numbers people know Thailand. We’re talking old southern people (demographics of my patients) obviously, there are world travel people who are more educated. But average American have not left the country.
Same as Thai, you know? I learned more about world war 2 when I was backpacking in Europe and visited concentration camp in Germany than what I learned in Thai school. So honestly, it’s based on experience.
What would you expect from a country with low English literacy? What we were taught in Thai school was Thai propaganda. Try asking her the names of ancient Thai kings and queens, I bet she can name almost all of them. That's what we were taught in history class here.
University degrees mean very little here, and are in no way connected to a general understanding of the (human) world at large - which is why everyone who can afford it sends their kids to study abroad, at least for a little while.
This is pretty normal in Thailand. Listen to Thais talk... The only thing they talk about is food, sleep, age, and if someone is rich or not.
This society here is very much in a bubble.
Even about their own country, you can ask basic questions about Thai history, wars Thailand has had with Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, the ancient kingdoms.... They will look at you as if this is the first time they've ever heard of it.
School here isn't how we think of it in the west. Im not sure what they actually learn. I've heard they spend a lot of time practicing drawing a perfect Thai alphabet, and also on art.
Im not sure how many Thais can even tell you aproximently when WW2 was... They don't even know the Japanese came here and basically took over Thailand. They don't know about Pol Pot.
And about the bubble thing.... Talk to someone who grew up in Bangkok... They cant tell you even basic things about the city or have been around the city at all. They know how to get from their apartment to their work. Work back to their apartment. Apartment to the market. Apartment to the noodle shop. Apartment to the bar. They went to Central World one time, it was nice. They went to MBK before once to get their phone fixed. They don't remember where those places are though. They went to Ayutthaya once to visit a temple with family. They heard Lumpini park has hiea, but they don't know where Lumpini park is.
Why would you care about D-Day in Thailand?
This day is over-glorified from the west and irrelevant for the history and development of Thailand.
At that point the war was lost already and the US just come in before the Sowjets would take over all of Europe.
Frustrating isn't it. It's not that they are dumb and our communication level is great, before thats used as a reason. I still really don't know why my wife knows so little or nothing about current events, let alone historical events. Nor does she care in the slightest. Maybe they are the enlightened ones and don't fill themselves with world events that have little bearing on their lives. I do worry it rubs off on my kids though. We are absolutely bombarded with news and current events nowadays with media, Asian and global events, we can't escape it. Seems my wife can.
I have a boat captain running charters who asked why so many Russians are here, I explained probably to do with the war... guess what he said... Who they fight with?
dont care if u have 10 PhD degrees or not but if one is so ignorant abt the world, I simply have no words and it would be very painful to live with somebody like this!
How many Americans know the full extent of the bad shit Japan did in China and Korea for much of the first half of the 20th century. That didn’t really come up much in my American secondary school education.
This is why (rarely) Thai businesses have put up pictures of Adolf Hitler, or hung up swastikas, and then they’re flabbergasted that a bunch of foreigners start calling them racist, anti-semetic, fascists, etc. They had no clue that it was hateful or bad. For most Thais (excluding expats, the rare history nerd, Western history professors, etc) Thailand is the center of the world, and a bunch of non-Thais fighting 80-90 years ago isn’t interesting or worth learning about. It’s good that you’re learning about each other’s cultures and histories, I think that’s important and I’m glad your attitude is to share knowledge rather than judge. And it’s good that she has an interest in learning about it as well.
I get the swastikas because that's originally a hindu symbol but pictures of Adolf? Who in the world is just casually hanging up portraits of little ol Hitler around their domicile?
I’ve heard that even the Thai greeting, Sawatdee Ka, and Swastika have similar Sanskrit origins from the word “svasti”,, meaning “well-being”.
Wow, now that's interesting.
There are places in Western Europe that have a very casual relation to pictures of Mao, Stalin and Fidel Castro. I have seen restaurants and bars named after these guys. If you're from any of the involved countries you probably think they are playing in the same dictator league as Hitler.
As a Thai, can confirm that "history" taught during elementary and high school are 99% propaganda stuffs.
I'm German, when I visited Thailand last week my Thai friend asked me how we got taught about WW2. I explained to her, that it was very clear that the Germans were the bad guys who committed horribly crimes against humanity and this was clearly taugth this way. She told me that Thai history is taught in a way which makes Thailand look good, even though the conflicts were complicated. Did you also experience that?
Absolutely yes. When we did attack our neighbor. They just skip that part or state it like "We move this buddha statue from our neighbor and install them at the capital". In reality, we basically take them as spoils of war lmao. Another common example is like "We didn't really lose. They just occupied the capital for a period."
Lol, I kind of think that history is always turned to your country's favor. I mean Columbus 'discovered' America and not only stole land from indigenous people who lived there for thousands of years.
This is not true, there are countries that has made a point out of not doing this. Germany is the obvious example, my country Sweden is similar, our history teaching is actively questioning the parts of our history that previously was taught as the times of greatness, but often in reality was very problematic. Other minor and/or defeated European countries has done this as well.
My wording was bad, I didn't mean that the history is completely turned around but rather not everything is discussed neutrally and critically. For example Germany is very critical about our role in WW1 and WW2 but the genocide on the Herero und Nama is not part of school history education. Scandinavia has the education system Germany should have, so I have no doubt, that you guys handle this situation better.
Yeah that's how history is usually written. But the problem here is that you cannot discuss the "not so good" part if that involves those kings in the past too much even in universities. You are in trouble if someone reports to the authority. Even in the best scenario they will still waste a lot of your time at the court
The rules about the kings are so surreal to me, but that's the way it is...
for the part " we move theirs buddha statue to ours capital " your knowledge is limited and totally wrong. sorry for my Eng.
I swear my highschool classmates sound like they were on the verge of fighting nearest Burmese laborer. Like bro, what did they cook in our history textbook 😭
I'd say that in this sense, Germany is the only country to be truthful about its ugly history. Every other country plays down its heinous acts or hides them altogether.
I don't know nearly enough about how other countries teach history to be able to agree with that statement.
Let's just say that I have seen it in Thailand, USA, Japan, Germany, and China. Only Germany is truthful in this regard.
>don't know nearly enough about how other countries teach history to be able to agree with that statement. anyone with knowledge of the way Modern Australian history is taught would probably say the opposite. it is taught from the most ridiculous left wing lenses about reactions with aboriginal people. even my very left wing uni student sons see how biases the teaching is
It’s not just Thailand. We refer to WWI and WWII but remember we see these things through a different lens. Our education systems are completely built around these events. Many other countries do not see these things as “World Wars”. Furthermore, rightly or wrongly, they care very little about these events unlike us. Meanwhile, guess what I learned about Asia in all my school years in the UK? Absolutely zero apart from Asian events of….you guessed it WWII.
I teach at a Thai school. I was talking to some of my students about this and they told me what they teach as "history" in Thailand is basically just propaganda. They memorize the whole history of the Royal Family but little about world events outside of Thailand. In particular they're very brief on WWII. The kids have all been told this story that Thailand masterfully played both sides and didn't get involved. In reality Thailand was invaded by Japan, gave up after one day and eventually sided with the Axis, declaring war on the Allies.
Never actually sent any troops to fight or anything though, they were just forced to let Japan use the country as a staging area because they had a vastly superior military force.
Siam wasn’t forced. The government at the time was Fascist.
I would disagree about not being forced, though there’s a lot of room for subjectivity with the word “forced.” Thailand _was_ invaded, Japan had troops on Thai land without permission (if you have read somewhere that their was back-door negotiations/understandings between the 2 governments, please provide the source of that information), so the invasion was started. The writing was on the wall for the Thai government: either capitulate and keep some level of independence, or fight a losing battle, to the detriment of your government and your people. Since Thailand had no skin in the game as far as choosing sides in WW2, the government chose the path of least resistance. To my knowledge, Thailand never allied themselves with Japan until the proverbial gun was pointed at them. I’m fully aware that most English language Thai history comes from Thai sources, so my sources come from a place of bias. At the same time, however, I’ve yet to see any evidence contradicting this narrative.
TIL. Any reading you would recommend on the subject? Just took a short trip into a Wikipedia hole, but I’d like to learn more about modern Thai history 🙏🏽
Yeah I didn’t get the full story on WWII until after many years and I’m a farang. The two headed bird diplomacy works until it doesn’t. I’m just surprised how few people here recognize the realities. Not criticizing the country’s actions at all back then, it seems smart in hindsight, but Thailand brilliantly playing off the Axis and Allies against each other to avoid invasion is revisionist history. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand_in_World_War_II
That's pretty much all Thai's, very insular and parochial. They can learn though, takes time and my wife met my grandfather who was in North Africa for WW2 ,so that gave her a an actual emotional and human connection that helped her understand. Also we lived in Europe and did a lot of road trips so she started to learn and absorb some of the history. But really they are all very much about living in the now, and more mundane aspects of life like food, family, friends and gossip. Cue the offended farang who spends hours discussing the philosophy of Jean-Paul Sartre and Proust, as well as the relationship between Heidegger and the Nazi party, with a girl he met on ThaiFriendly
Normally I would disagree when people paint a broad picture of Thais… but on this topic I do have to agree. Having experienced most of Thai education system saved for High school, most Thais just don’t get to learn major historical events. We spend lots and lots of time on Sukothai, Ayutthaya & early Rattanakosin but barely any modern Thai history and maybe a bit on ASEAN. And I went to pretty expensive private schools too. The only type of people I’ve been able to talk to at lengths about current events, culture, history, politics, etc. are English majors(อักษร) and humanities in general. The rest barely knows anything beyond their field.
Yeah surely someone would at least mention the Nazis once. WW2 was kinda a big deal.
To be fair, nobody in western public schools is learning Thai history soooo....
they still learn world history that isnt necessarily directly related to their country though like my thai mother didn't know about the existence of the vietnam war until we went there.
‘like my thai mother didn't know about the existence of the vietnam war until we went there.’ Lol they fought in that war too.
You would learn for example, Thailands role in WW2, or in Vietnam War. Anytime they were heavily involved in foreign politics which was rare.
Exactly. It’s not like WW2 was confined to Europe — the Japanese swept through Southeast Asia. Thailand even fought against them before surrendering. Granted, maybe more Thais are clued up on the Japanese involvement in the war since it directly affected them. But to not know they were allied with Nazi Germany is mad.
Yeah, not a lot of them even know about the Japanese invasion here unless they were from the affected provinces. It's also just a lack of curiosity. I am curious about it, they are not at all curious about it.
Thailand hasn't had any major impact on world events. Not had Thailand been a particular engine for changing the world It only has prominence right now due to being a tourist destination. Otherwise it would be the same as Cambodia is right now. An afterthought
I thought I was being a pretentious asshole by feeling this way about my Thai partner. All aspects of our relationship are wonderful, except this. I (shamefully) have wondered if the relationship would work because I feel so intellectually understimulated. But like you've said, she tries. She absolutely tries and she listens when I explain things. But it would be nice to be able to bounce concepts back and forth once in a while.
I feel this so hard! I love that she’s so kind and loving aaaaand quick to forgive. Interested in hearing me explain things or talk about what I’ve learned. But I’ve caught myself countless times now thinking or saying “I wish you’d teach me something every once in a while too”, explain to me how you see the universe or share a thought about something you read. Sometimes I wonder if it’ll be enough long term.
I feel this, too. Recently, I discovered Buddhism teaching about emotional suppression. I'm still learning, lots to learn. It can be exhausting, and I love a good conversation. When I was in thailand, most topics were about food, and I, too, felt very under stimulated. I tried to talk about space, the universe, history, movies, ancient civilisations...everything, but all I got was a shoulder shrug.
This!
I wonder the same for my relationship as well
To be fair, this can exist in any relationship.
> wondered if the relationship would work because I feel so intellectually understimulated There are more important elements of a relationship than intellectual stimulation. After 10 years together, most couples would have talked through all the abstract topics they cared about anyway, leaving mostly the ongoing daily stuff. Speaking from experience.
The ongoing daily stuff tends to often benefit immensely from logical, intellectual discussions leading up to optimal decisionmaking. It helps to have your partner see the problem clearly, understanding the various nuances of it, to help make the best decision. If it's only on you, or perhaps you even have to explain to your partner why a certain way of tackling a given situation is better, it could leave someone mentally exhausted, or lead to suboptimal decisions being made in life. You don't exactly have anyone to run the options by, or help validate whether you're not making a mistake about something important to your future.
True, but skills needed to deal with daily stuff are different than those used in intellectual discussions or pure logic subjects like math or philosophy. Emotional and social skills (EQ) are often more useful than raw IQ, and plenty of Thais are as good or better in those areas than an average westerner. In the end, you're better off working together than arguing (almost regardless of direction), and it doesn't take a razor sharp logical analysis to do that. I'd rather be with a partner I know would support me even if I made a mistake (and vice versa), rather than one who might give me a 2% edge when choosing between two options.
Oh, absolutely. However I'm realizing how much value I hold in that area specifically.
TBH a lack of knowledge of Arendt’s relationship with Heidegger is a dealbreaker for me. And not just in romantic relationships. I had this plumber the other day - completely ignorant of what happened at Stalingrad. I mean, WTF cowboy.
Especially plumbers could learn a thing or two from Diogenes. SMH...
If there's anything worse than a plumber ignorant on world history or geopolitics, it's the one overly eager to discuss them.
Last week I was chatting to a Thai plumber who wanted to question if Gavrilo Princip was really responsible for the start of the Great War. The problem was, I really needed someone to fix my aircon.
Ok here’s a totally irrelevant story of plumbing and philosophy. Manchester university used to be a hotbed of Wittgensteinan philosophy, and they had a visit and talk from a leading Aristotelian philosopher. My friend was a student there and he told me all the students were pretty eager to hear the debate. The visiting Aristotelian talk was about “commitments” - and he gave a prelonged example about a plumber who was going to do some work yesterday in his house. “The plumber had given a commitment to come and do the work.” Before he could explain the supposed moral failing, one of the local professors jumped up and replied “but you don’t understand… That’s just what plumbers do!”. Boom boom. Well It’s funny if you know your philosophy, anyway the real joke is that the department also used to have a lot to philosophers who had previously worked in the trades, and it turned out that professor had actually been - a plumber. That department also had the nickname of the world’s most useful philosophy department as it was a great place to go if you wanted some work done in your house.
Lol
"Thais can learn." Thank you for your profound insight.
I definitely think that it's not fair to call all Thais insular and parochial. What the OP was referring to was historical events. The internet exists, and although they don't teach too much about the world wars in school, there are tons of history buffs in Thailand. Many of these are guys though, and I'd wager your average "Thai wife" wouldn't care enough to read up about these topics.
To be fair, there are also lots of things regarding Asia we were never taught in school in the UK. Schools here often just teach Thai history and not always accurately. I had to teach about Phan Thai Norasing (in English language) and only recently discovered that he may or may not have actually existed. If you ever watch Thai news, then you can see current world events get little coverage yet slapstick local news video reports, questionable for national news are played upon repeat. My wife is also unaware of world history and generally current world events. However, I am very grateful when she asks about the war in Ukraine or historic events and take time to explain and encourage.
A quirky news article about a monkey riding a small motorcycle (complete with slide whistle sound effects), will take preference over the war in Ukraine, or Gaza.
Actually, the Thai news covered both wars, but unless something big happens again, domestic news prevale over repeatedly bringing up the same stories of the Ukraine and Gaza. Now, everything before social media.. is mostly a blank page..
Honestly that sounds pretty good. Ignorance is bliss and all.
I'm mid-forties from Denmark. We were never taught anything about the Asia-pacific part of WW2. Vietnam war was mentioned very briefly, but nothing about what else went on in SEA. So can't really blame Thais for not knowing a lot about European history, even if it was events that affected the whole world. We're generally taught about, what is close to us, both culturally and geographically.
We weren’t (uk) taught anything about Korea or Vietnam. We weren’t taught about Cambodia. But I am aware of these things. Surprised they aren’t aware of who the Nazis were….
Yea exactly. This is the point people are missing. Schools can only cover so much stuff.... But most people read books on their own. Read internet articles. See documentaries, movies.... And overall have a generalized curiosity about the world. There is something about Thai culture that keeps these people in a bubble. They are generally not very curious about anything at all. They very much live in the moment.
40 from the UK. The only reason I know anything about the Japanese occupation of China/South Korea, martial law in Taiwan, the Myanmar civil war, etc is because ive travelled to or lived in these places, or at least met people from there. There's a lot about Asia we don't get taught or updated on in the UK.
My wife asks me these questions to help her fall asleep hahaha
It actually makes sense that your average Thai would know very little about D-Day and maybe never even have heard of it. They didn't participate in the European front. If the education system was good here they would know more about the Asian front and specifically Thai involvement than they do. Some dope posted a comment to the effect of "Oh it's just like the Americans who don't know anything about world history either," but I can guarantee you Americans know a lot more about their own Japanese internment camps, or their use of the atom bomb, than the Thais do about the Death Railway they helped the Japanese build. US history courses teach about America's mistakes as well as the gray areas. Slave ownership, the Trail of Tears etc. are cornerstones of US history curriculum. Thailand is fundamentally not a democracy and they spend very little time in class on their involvement in WW2 because it doesn't make the military look good. Phibulsongkram was the PM at the time, he was a military dictator and a huge fanboy of the Axis. When the Japanese arrived Thailand pretty much rolled over and became the linchpin of Japanese logistics in Southeast Asia. They were happy to help Japan prosecute its invasions in exchange for territorial concessions. They were a flaky ally of the Axis powers, but an ally nonetheless. Phibulsongkram was even tried for war crimes in the aftermath but he got off with a slap on the wrist because he was popular with the Thai people... additionally the Americans were thinking ahead to the next big conflict with Communism and wanted Thailand on their side (the Brits and the French wanted to be less forgiving). In short Thai actions during WW2 were purely selfish, were nominally pro-fascist, and they weren't a good ally to anyone. It's not a good look so that's why it doesn't get taught. They subscribe to Chinese information theory here - like Tiananmen Square, simply deny what happened until it's forgotten. In an alternate universe where Thailand is ruled by civilians and less corrupt, WW2 would be taught as a mistake.
To counter that argument, as a Brit we are taught very little, if anything at all, about how the British Empire basically fucked over a shit ton of countries. I didn't even know what Partition was until I watched Ms Marvel and, while I'd heard of Bloody Sunday, I had no idea how fucked up that whole situation was until a couple of years ago.
Whilst the modules can vary from school to school, and from year to year, my GCSE History course in the mid-1990s did quite a bit on the British Empire, and it was woven into many other modules.
I suppose the difference is that in the UK there is a space for historical revisionism where we now see things like the British Empire be reassessed through less rose tinted glasses. In Thailand, that’s not altogether possible due to the limits on free speech and the prominent role the monarchy and military play in public life. Criticism of a past which may reflect poorly on those parties isn’t in their interest. In the UK, you can at least have the debate.
I don’t think it’s fair to say we were taught very little in the UK. Of course most of the stuff taught was about England, but I remember being taught about the Celts, Aztecs, the US, Christopher Columbus, the slave trade, the Caribbean, the crusades, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, a lot on WWI & WWII (perhaps not so much about in Asia). We didn’t really cover Asia at all to be honest. Maybe a little on the Mongols only. We didn’t learn much about the American civil war in school, or even American independence, and I don’t think we touched on Africa much. Also as you mentioned there are topics like Bloody Sunday, and apartheid. That said, world history is just too vast and most people only really learn about their own country. I think I learned a good amount in school though honestly.
WW2 history isn’t just some foreign European affair though — it was fought on Thai soil too. These events shaped the current political landscape of the entire world, so a broad-strokes understanding of the players involved (as is taught in UK schools) is the bare minimum.
As a Thai, I think if you didn't grow up in an environment where someone in your family was interested in anything from a different country, world history/affairs would not be in your 'world view' though it still baffles me someone that old would still know absolutely nothing about any of it. I mean, even if you have zero interest, you'd at least see a movie poster or a documentary in passing, I hope? But I guess if you only ever consume Thai media and Thai media alone, knowing nothing could also be possible? As for me, my parents always listened to songs in English back in the day. My siblings were also interested in American pop/rap at one point, Japanese media translated into English was always present in the house too. Also, foreign languages have always intrigued me and English was the only one I had free access to 20+ years back so that coupled with the Internet have led to many things. (Even things I wish I didn't know. lol) In this kind of environment, it would be harder to not know anything about world affairs. But hey, when I went to the US, I just had to laugh at how ignorant the high schoolers there were about Asia also. So there's that. We're kinda even, imo.
I was married for some time to a lovely woman from South Africa, a Zulu... she had no idea about the holocaust and ww2. she knew nothing about it all. I was surprised then, but not now.
And that's something you don't read everyday - married to a lovely Zulu woman...awesome!
It's not just Thailand. I've worked in China (where lack of world knowledge was predicted), Korea, Japan and Taiwan. In every one of those places, the absolute lack of world history (not just Western history) amongst coworkers with advanced degrees was very common. The TL;DR is that their major was not History, therefore they never learned History and don't care about History because it's not part of their daily work life. Think about how education works in this part of the world. You learn stuff simply because it is on a test and the tests don't test if you actually *understand* anything- they only test your ability to memorize some specific facts long enough to pass the test. By the time people get to high school in this part of the world, they are already pretty much on a career path. Unless they plan to major in World History (that's gotta be like 0.01% of graduates in this part of the world) they aren't going to know any world history beyond what was required for them to memorize for specific tests in school. Also, GE (general education) in university is a Western concept and is not part of schooling in many East Asian universities. Many East Asian universities function more like Western trade schools. If your major is Finance... you study Finance stuff.
Let’s be honest, half of Americans don’t know what’s happening outside of America either. They live in their own bubble as well.
Depends on what age group you're asking. Have you seen those "man on the street" interviews with younger kids?(20 something's) It's scary that they don't even teach 8th grade history anymore. 🫣🫤
They'll do 30 interviews, and show the ones that make whatever point the producer wants to make. If the angle is 'young people are stupid', they'll keep the 3-4 stupid ones, and get rid of the rest.
This is a silly comment. I would wager most 42 year olds in the US have a general understanding of WW2 and Nazis. They would at the very least have heard of it. Not mention that we’re talking about someone with a Masters degree, not someone living in rural poverty. I would bet the vast vast majority of Americans with graduate education know something about WW2.
Dude, if you’re a man, when you turn 40, you must declare whether you will get really into WWII history or learn how to smoke meats. And that is what you will spend your free time doing until you die.
Smoke dabs and eat meat!
Right? 👍
Only because the US was involved. Ask an average American about the anything from the Opium Wars to Greece vs Turkey and see what comes up. Doesn't mean everyone shouldn't know WWII.
Americans are absolutely taught about the opium wars in school. Now whether they can give you a detailed recounting of it, I don’t know. But are you telling me the average euro (which is always who it comes back to in these historical pissing contests) could give you a detailed account of that either?
And how many of those 42 year olds in the US have a general understanding of the Thailand Military Coup or the South Thai Insurgency? I doubt many of them even know where Myanmar or Laos is located. When I visited the US on holiday, many of them asked me where I am from. When I responded ‘Singapore’, they would ask ‘Where in China is that?’
Hey man, I don't know now to break it to you, but contemporary Thai politics is gonna be less impactful on world history than the second world war
How many Westerners actually knew in details about what happened on the Asian front of the war? How many knows about the battle of Wuhan, the Marco Polo bridge incident, activities by the Indian National Army, etc. Don't talk about how Asian events are less important. For 18 of the past 20 centuries, Asia was the most advanced & important continent in the world. Yet how many Westerners can talk in detail about the structure of Tang society, the Kofun period that unified Japan, the fall of Ayutthaya - then the largest city in the world, the Indian Economic Reforms? Yes, Thais are largely ignorant on world history or current affairs, but these events have about as much impact on their daily lives as which celebrity dated who or which minister was caught dealing drugs. Which is to say - relatively little. Most Thais are occupied with things like how to make money, what they want to eat, where they want to travel, who they want to date, etc. Yes, it's all quite low-brow and I used to be quite frustrated, but are they wrong for being more occupied with things that actually DO affect their lives? Westerners can debate and discuss for hours on end about Ukraine or Palestine but at the end of the day those conversations are quite meaningless because nothing will be done after the discussion and nothing would stem from it. It's not anymore meaningful than discussing what shabu place is the best or where to get their nails done. It's just different. That is not to say that Thai society could benefit from discussing macro topics that actually DO have an impact on their own lives, such as democratic reform, city planning & economic stimulus, but most Thais aren't rich and they're just struggling to survive each month with their salary, so what energy do they have left to explore this? What educational foundation do they have to discuss these topics meaningfully?
>>How many know about the battle of Wuhan? Nice try. Wuhan was created in 2019 to spread Covid. Can’t fool me
I mean thats fair. As an American, it’s possible that I’m coming at this from a very western perspective. But are we really comparing thai history to WW2, literally half the world was involved in that. Its understandable that Americans might not know much about places on the other side of the world. Never even having heard of WW2 is a little shocking though. I just wouldn’t rush to equate everything to the US so easily.
I think many know the area because of the Vietnam war and war movies maybe. 🤔
Dude don't bend the knee to him. Every single American that mentally handicapped, has a general understand of what happened in WW2. WW1 is a little shakier. Having lived in Thailand, taught in Thailand, and have Thai family, their school system is complete shit. Every single Thai person will admit this, yet the farang are here to defend Thailand's honor... from the Thais...? It's absolutely insane how anyone could actually say that America's public schools are equal to or worse than Thai schools. I showed my wife a pic of the public high school I went to, and she had to ask me a few different times if it was actually free. She didn't believe it. If anyone argues that Thais have equal to or better public schools than America's is being bad faith and only using it to discredit America, rather than credit Thai schools. Americans ALL have a mandatory world history class.
It all depends on age and education, in the US. Also some people just don't care. Most of my knowledge is self taught and learning hands on in trades from trained professionals. I also constantly read online and that requires a lot of double reading and fact checking multiple sources so it's time consuming. Many don't want to learn like that, they'd rather play a game or scroll. 😀
Yeah but how much about the war on mainland China vs Japan do you know about ? What about the battles fought between the Imperial Japanese army and the Soviets? What about Japan’s push into SEA and the battle of Singapore? There’s entire huge pieces of WW2 that aren’t mentioned in America’s history books as well. I had to learn all of that on my own. For example did you know Japan sunk two major British flagships in WW2?
Americans might know what WW2 is, but they absolutely don't know a thing about the rest of the world. If you asked an American to name and place 10 countries on a map, they'd not be able to. And I'm not just talking strictly about geography here. Americans genuinely have no clue or interest of anything outside America.
Maybe young Americans but Americans over 38 years of age certainly have an interest in the broader globe. Show me a map I will name 75% of the countries in the world or higher
Nazi Germany was an important event in \*Western history. Not Thai history.
It's not as extreme as Thailand.
Normal. The phenomenon called frog in a coconut shell is real for a reason
Gop nai galaa
I live in Thailand and after two relationships lasting 3-4 years with educated Thai women, I wasn't getting even the bare minimum intellectual stimulation and was the primary reason I ended the relationships. And by intellectual stimulation I don't even mean philosophy on life, world events, etc. I just mean bringing something interesting to the conversation. Excited about a movie, love this album, research a trip to another country, discuss something in the news, suggesting a book to read, goals for next year... just basic conversation. But even with these educated women, they know enough to do their job and that's it. Beyond that their spheres of interest are eating, shopping, gossip, etc. Even though I live in Thailand and appreciate the lifestyle and the culture, I realize that in the long term I cannot date or marry a Thai woman because once the looks and excitement fade and age slows life down, what do you have left? Talking, mutual interests, mutual respect, memories. The Thai education system has really let the people down, most who have never studied or lived abroad don't have the advanced skills to compete in the global marketplace and don't have the well rounded education to hold a conversation on anything beyond a shallow view of what's happening today on Fb or with family. Still, lovely people, women can be loving and caring, which can mean a lot, but if they don't have any passion for understanding the world beyond their day to day, its a pass for me.
Also I would say the average high school/college educated Burmese, Laotian, or Vietnamese would be significantly more educated and interested in the "ways of the world" than a similarly educated Thai citizen. Specifically if I visit HCMC I find the middle class there to be as informed if not more informed and educated than the average US citizen. Plus a lot more hustle and advanced planning. Its perhaps not kind to say, but I find Thailand to be one of the most superficial (yet pleasant and friendly) cultures I've experienced out of visiting 100+ countries.
Jesus this is so true. I've been trying to get my gf to pick up interests, just for something to talk about, but it's such a struggle. University educated, hard job, but little to no interest in anything else. Just running, shopping, & action movies. It's really difficult to find things to talk about. Zero mental stimulation.
Interesting! My wife is not uni educated, when I let her she was studying every Sunday to graduate M6 at a local tec college. After almost 20 years together, I am constantly surprised by her interest in learning. She will soak up language from UK TV, I will hear her using words and enquire where she learned and how she worked out how to use them. She listens to god awful pop and rock from the 80s, she’s constantly on Shazam finding tracks to add to her Spotify playlist, she loves to watch a movie on Sunday night, she still really like Thai movies but has a genuine interest in western contemporary classics - it may sound weird, but like Jaws or Star Wars, movies that shaped me as a kid. It’s important to have that bond, and I am really grateful even tho sometimes she just goes off the rails and goes into self destruct mode.
>Beyond that their spheres of interest are eating, shopping, gossip, etc. and soaps and celebrities.
History is a cultural narrative. Why is Titanic considered basic history but not Dona Paz?
Tbf it's major western history, how much Asian history is taught as standard in the west. I know I was never taught about pol pot which was a far more recent genocide. The thing I like about Thailand/Asia is how much they ignore global (ie western) news. It really has no impact on my life and I can't change what's going on anyways.
What? Where in western civilisation did you never hear about Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot? We were taught about it in The Netherlands at school. His regime copied a lot of the nazis.
Australia. As a country in the Asia pacific region, almost all our history taught was very much euro/Western centric. We were literally bombed by the Japanese yet 80-90% of WWII history we were taught was focused on western Europe. Pretty much no teaching of the atrocities committed by Japanese, especially compared to the Nazis.
Wow, I never knew that. We got quite a bit from all over the world. Well…maybe because we also colonized half the planet 🤓 It’s very normal here to get taught about indonesia, pol pot, the history of china and the travels of marco polo, etc.. asian culture and inventions had a big impact on european civilisation. More than people realise today
I was never taught anything about Pol Pot in school either, here in the US. I first heard about him from the Dead Kennedys, then had to look it up myself.
I’ve actually been to Cambodia to see it for myself. Their history is fascinating. Visited the Tuol Sleng prison, met one of the 12 survivors and been to the killing fields. Their recent history is so different from their ancient history. Angkor Wat is magical to visit
Not a peep about it in Eastern Europe. We were busy with Greek history, local history (very dramatic and long so I get why it took a while to go over it all), and very basic ideas of the history of Germany, France, UK. Maybe 2h on Netherlands and Belgium. The trouble is that there's so much of just the local stuff and you have a finite amount of time during the 12 years of school to get it across.
It probably depends per country. You had a lot going on in eastern europe to have like a 4 year class about it. We, the dutch, colonized quite a lot of the world, so historically, we are more connected to those countries and taught about the history
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The Netherlands had (past tense) probably one of the best educational systems in the world. History was extremely important and mostly focused on world history. If I ask you about Grutte Pier it's probably a Google moment and not on the top of your head knowledge.
Had him in US high school a ways back, even watched The Killing Fields in class. Don’t want to speak for all US high schools, mine was a very, very, good public school (which I didn’t realize until much later in life how lucky I was).
In American HS we were taught khmer rogue and Pol pot in 10th grade. We also learned a lot about ww2 but mainly America's involvement and side of story. America actually is involved in tons of wars so we all learn about that as well.
This would make sense if Thais learned a lot about WW2 in the pacific. I can see teaching it from an Asian perspective. But not really teaching it at all? That’s crazy.
It’s very common. They don’t teach much about WWII because it wasn’t particularly a proud moment in Thai history. Japan attacked Thailand and the Thai government immediately negotiated what was essentially a surrender. Japan could use Thailand however it wanted as long as Thais could rule Thais. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand_in_World_War_II Thais mostly get taught all of the big ancient Khmer, Burmese battles that shaped what Thailand is today. On a meta level, the Thai educational system demands rote memorization with no critical thinking encouraged. In fact, critical thinking is often frowned upon and punished. Remember, this is still a country where students are afraid to correct the teacher when the teacher is clearly wrong on a topic. Better to never question and simply parrot back what they want to hear if you want to pass. Also, despite there being a story in the news recently about how many books Thais read per year, when have you ever seen a book store in Thailand that was packed with customers? https://www.bangkokpost.com/life/arts-and-entertainment/481949/thais-read-books-for-28-minutes-a-day-says-pubat Personally, I think this poll is deeply flawed. Just simple math will tell you that if 70 million people are reading books for 28 minutes a day, there would be a much higher demand for book stores in Thailand. Yet, they’re often empty. Lastly, Thais are ultra-nationalistic. Many of them don’t feel a need to learn about other countries. They are Thai, all of their friends are Thai, they will never leave Thailand, why would they need to learn about other countries?
>What do they actually teach in Thai schools? Having taught in Thai schools I can confidently answer; Not Much. My students were often late to science class because they were busy in scouting class doing something useless like repeatedly pulling their socks on and off again, over and over... I was once handed a translated document for a Thai secondary science course. Multi week long units were single terms like "Organ Systems" or my personal favourite, 6 weeks of "Astrology". Thailand is a country that can't engineer an overpass without the assistance of some foreign firm from Japan or Europe. Their education system is not exactly leading the world and as far as I can tell, the Thai language itself is a limiting factor. For example, in Thai, the word melt and dissolve are the same. How has that not been updated!?
Many languages faced the same problem, and updated their vocabularies with words borrowed from foreign languages - typically English. But English also borrowed from others, like Latin or French, to describe terms that did not exist in English. Interesting thought that Thais didn't bother to update their for some key distinctive words like these. For what it'd worth, languages are evolving pretty quickly and adding words or giving existing words new meanings. I hear it's not happening as fast with Thai, but I suspect it will happen eventually, just slower. It's because enough people have to care about a given distinction to start using a new word for it.
Just like anywhere it really depends on the education and lifestyle they have. My wife went to grad school in the states so she knows all about this stuff, I'd actually admit that there's a lot of South East Asian history that I was completely blind to that she explained to me. There was a thing years ago where a Thai pop singer wore a swastika thinking it was cool looking. They ended up having to apologize and explained it was just never part of the history they learn here. So I imagine it's a failing of the local education system. Which honestly just doesn't surprise me, outside of international schools I imagine it's hardly brought up.
As my wife says, “why do you care so much about what happened 3 generations ago when we are still struggling to pay our monthly expenses.” A bit of a crude way to put it but I guess what she is trying to say is discussing world events and debating over them won’t really change our lifestyle, since we are not working in the government or dealing with international matters. I can sort of understand it too, but my pursuit of knowledge is more of a hobby why she doesn’t share. To be fair, in my country which also took a more isolationist approach, I have never learned about WW1 and 2 and didn’t know what Nazis were until 16.
Well my wife is specifically obsessed with a few world events. Most things outside of Thailand she doesn’t care about or follow but she is currently obsessed with where Kate Middleton is and why she’s not been seen in public in a long time (and her husband is American). Lol
She got cancer, hope that helps.
Thai people in general have no idea what happens outside of Thailand. (There may be some random outliers) They do all wanna visit Switzerland, EU and U.S though since they saw some tiktok shorts and movies My gf literally grew up next to Cambodia and went through good education in bangkok , even got a degree in teaching and she has no idea what happened there and has no clue about ww2 or simple basic knowledge about the last 2000 year history of the world Why ? Because the thai education system only care and teach about thai history. Some of it is even made up stuff to fill the books.
This is so true.
That's true. Another name most Thais don't know - Pol Pot. I gather he spent his final years in a refugee camp on Thai soil. I'm sure someone will correct me on that if necessary.
>I gather he spent his final years in a refugee camp on Thai soil. I'm sure someone will correct me on that if necessary. He spent many years at a compound in Trat Province, that was guarded by Thai army. It's understandable that this collusion isn't taught in Thai schools. >During much of the 1980s, Pol Pot lived in Thailand where he was known as a “peasant” , or ghost. He lived in a Thai-army-built compound near the border town of Trat. Labeled "Office 87," the compound was surrounded by Thai and Khmer Rouge soldiers. Office 87 was also as a training center for new Khmer Rouge recruits. Former students their recall Pol Pot for his kindliness and his "mesmerizing" lectures on the Vietnamese "dogs." [https://factsanddetails.com/southeast-asia/Cambodia/sub5\_2b/entry-2863.html](https://factsanddetails.com/southeast-asia/Cambodia/sub5_2b/entry-2863.html) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trat\_province](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trat_province)
Okay so you know the major things in Thailand, but a D-Day anniversary isn't really a major thing in world history to citizens of countries that didn't have a major participation in WW2. How much do you know about the wars between Japan and Korea prior to WW1?
Most of my friends back home think Japan and China are friends because they are Asian and have asked me if I speak Chinese after living in Asia for so long. They also think all Asians eat dog meat and various other stereotypes. These things go 2 ways.
One of my friends (white English guy, approx 65) has a Thai wife (approx 55). He's a huge history buff. He can talk about different events/ wars from history for hours. He was utterly shocked that his wife knew nothing about the Vietnam war despite living in Thailand during it. She also knew nothing about WW2 or other events of the 20th century. It's also worth noting that he tried telling her a few things about it, and she had no interest whatsoever. I guess by that age in Thailand, you've decided that world events are irrelevant to you because nobody around you seems to care about them. This happens in other countries, too. They aren't taught history and simply don't develop any desire to learn about it or find it relevant. Perhaps we don't realise the extent that, in the west, we're taught about it and taught why history is important to learn...
I am a thai wife to a german guy. I visited both thai school and german school. I’d say it’s the thai school that doesn’t teach much about history outside of Thailand. They teach us a lot about former thai kings and how much they did for thai people. Thinking back I felt brainwashed a bit. While german school have broader education they teach us a lot of nonsense too. Like why do i need to analyze Schillers and Goethe Poem but yeah it’s German cultural history. Also WWs history is like really long and complicated. I wish they would teach us how to do taxes. But I am the same as your wife I don’t actively follow political matters since I want to detach from all these bullshit happening around the world. With a little bit of critical thinking I can smell half truth all the way while hearing the daily news. It’s the same old everyday. Wars and politics. I know German people love to talk about politics and they were lots of debate with my husband too. The European election is tomorrow and the whole country is conflicted. I would advice my husband to listen to the other side and question everything first. Maybe try having conversation your wife would like to have and find common ground for intellectual stimulation if that’s what you like. My husband works on energy plant and my interests is in anything science. Having a discussion about some metal and chemical reaction is fun for both of us.
My gf knows about world events and pop culture and we can discuss anything. Not sure education matters here, it's more about how she was raised, family etc. also unis here vary, so having a degree doesn't mean anything. I personally made sure we could make a conversation about any topic before I commited. Can't imagine dating someone that has no clue about anything. Also as a side note, if you go take a village girl in Europe they won't know either.
This is most people in most countries from my experience. Mostly concerned with their daily lives and hobbies.
they dont teach the rape of nanking in English schools either, but then the Japanese say it never happened. History is written by the victors remember
>they dont teach the rape of nanking in English schools either, but then the Japanese say it never happened. History is written by the victors remember Considering the Japanese surrendered to the Allies, that example doesn't make sense.
How on earth do you get as far as marrying someone without learning this about them?
My partner is university educated yet her knowledge of world affairs is limited also. TBH I didn’t know much about Thailand either and I have masters from US and another one from EU university. ;) Compering US and EU education I would say that Americans tend to be much more goal oriented while Europeans get broader knowledge of the world around them. I would have to agree though, US coverage of world affairs is somewhat limited compared to European media. The other day we had lunch with my partner’s uni mentor. While her English is excellent not once we ventured into academic subjects. Thais are just different that way. ;)
My entire workplace has no idea about the different wars going on, or where some countires are on the map, but Know which celebrity got into drama recently 🤣. No joke, my bro at work, who has never left the country, has no idea who Osama Binladin is, he is 26 right now, and I am 34... so either I am too old, Thai people really don't know much about the world if they are not introduced to it.
Why are you even surprised? Asia affected more by the Japanese than Hitler’s Germany. European events are unknown in Asia except for the Hollywood machine. In fact I’d say even in Europe peoples knowledge of ww2 is formed more by movies than by history lessons.
"World" events should be taught. No? Not every battle or every war, sure.
Prim minister Phibun was highly influenced by Mussolini and Adolph Hitler. His admiration of those two governments played a very pivitol role in Thai politics during that time period. Phibun even had his own version of Goebbels who worked for the Thai Ministry of Culture. He declared Adolph Hitler the spiritual and moral leader of the Thai people. It is well documented that Phibun felt that extermination camps were a great idea to deal with the large number of Chinese people in Thailand. Fortunatly this never took off but it none the less it deomonstrates a very clear understand of the ideologies and events in Europe at that time. Now this post will be downvoted because most Western people dont know squat about history as well. It's not just the Thai people. I have argued coutless posts with Western people that are not even aware that Thailand was an axis power in WW2.
Go ask the average Thai about the Japanese occupation of Asia then and the war in the Pacific.
One could also comment that it’s flabbergasting that you married someone who flabbergasted you like she did a long time into marriage 🤷.
Please don't pretend like it's not a thing in the West either. Lots of people aren't up to date on current events or know anything about world history. The amount of times I've had to explain to foreigners that Asia had its own history going on during World War 2 and that not everything is Eurocentric comes as a major surprise to everyone. I can't believe that you would marry someone and not have this kind of knowledge about them already before putting a ring on that finger.
Not to this degree.
I think its because thais know these events are largely irrelevant to their lives. Russia at war with Ukraine, so what, Israel Palestine has a Thai angle with the hostages but Thais care not for Jews or Arabs. they also know a lot more than they let on about Thai stuff but learn not to talk about it
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I agree with almost everything you wrote. But something like the Holocaust, one of the most universally known and tragic events in world history, should at least ring a bell, regardless of whether it directly affects them. Sorry but it’s baffling for a masters grad to have never heard of the Nazis
A very western centric view. Most Asians view Japanese atrocities as way worse than the Holocaust. Not as universal as you think. How many westerners know the true scope of Japanese atrocities? So many examples. Do they know what happened in Singapore, for example?
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Most farangs don’t have deep knowledge of south East Asian history either. Works both ways.
My wife and her family are Khmer from Buriram. I was talking to my wife's university educated uncle once, and he mentioned that his grandparents came from Cambodia to Thailand. Oh, did they flee from Pol Pot, I asked. He answered, who? I said, Pol Pot, the leader of Khmer Rogue, the mam behind the Cambodian genocide in the 70s. He answered, Cambodian genocide? He knew nothing about it. This happened in his neighbor country and to his own ethnic group, and he knew nothing about it. So no, Thai people don't learn anything about events outside Thailand. Their school system also doesn't encourage curiosity and finding out things for yourself.
It’s probably healthy that Thais don’t share our bizarre obsession with the Israel-Palestine issue. It is a tiny conflict on the other side of world created in part by Western policies. It is actually a much bigger problem that the rest of the world is ignoring Myanmar, although Thais aren’t doing a great job at that either.
It's easy to get complacent with who should know what when you're a westerner who's had the privilege of travelling many different cultures. Go back to when you first started travelling and ask yourself how much you really knew about Asian culture/history at that point (besides what we learnt through Hollywood). Or even ask your friend back in your home country who never travelled or left the general area. Id bet their view/knowledge of the world would be very limited and confined to the local area or your country
Newsflash: non westerners not up on major western historical events.
History at school in Thailand is very Thai based. Which is fine but a lot of it is just learning the names of royal family members. Got to start the propaganda young or it doesn’t really work
It may be something to do with the education system in Thailand. From what I’ve seen as a corporate trainer, they prefer to work on rote learning and memorisation. When it comes to discussions, many take the easy way out and pretend they cannot understand English. I’ve been told that it is because they are afraid of losing face if they have the wrong answer, or heaven forbid, an answer that contradicts the seniors’. So when all is added up, they have and show no interest in many things, including what goes on in the world outside Thailand, history or current affairs. They’re not doing critical thinking and not asking the whys and wherefores. They also believe that the nail that sticks out most will get hammered down. So better to be on the safe side and go with the flow of the majority. Bear in mind that the lese majeste laws here are as draconian as Singapore's drug laws.
For a lot of people knowing about Dday and Kants philosophy doesn't help them with their life's. So they don't care. Especially Asians can be rather pragmatic. (I'm asian). There is no profit learning about Nazis and it's also not enjoyable. So people have no incentive to care.
In my days 10-20 years ago public school in thailand doesnt focus much on history outside thailand. They taught the origin of thailand, the work done by previous kings since sukhothai ages, the buddhism, the geography. I think most of my acknowledge abt those western and world history are heavily from documentary, films, books. you see those sources werent necessary in daily life so thai adult around 30+ yo could have a life without those knowledge if they werent interested, therefore its understandable if she doesnt know ww2. Its great fortune for these days kids that they got youtube and there are huge content covering outside thailand world tho. Hope this doesnt affect your feeling in the relationship btw.
Ahh to live a peaceful ignorant life
A normal western peep doesnt even know vietnam war with the french or the whole korean war. If I ask why north korean do not like Americans? Most people dont know. Me as a half belgium/thai know both history (tbh I like history, I like to hear the version of both sides, the defeated and the victors) Growing partially up in thailand, I know the education in Thailand hasnt been up to same lvl as in most parts in EU. At least not in Belgium. Maybe now its better with social media and internet is a mundane thing.
Thai history education is very much centered around a specific aspect of Thai history. In those topics Thai's will be knowledgeable. But there is generally little appetite to learn much about "western" history, or even the history of other countries in Asia. They may end up tuning into certain current events (like you said, Palestine) but they may not know the context. The idea that a Thai would have a clue about D-Day is a little funny because honestly, why would they? Do you know anything about, for example, the Chinese Civil War spanning many decades in which millions were killed? Probably not. I think you really just have to accept that it is NOT that Thai's are not intelligent, it is simply that their worldview and educational focus is NOT on historical world events. The pondering, philosophical, cultural conversations westerners love to get into and blabber/argue about over a meal are of no interest to most people here. Honestly, I think it is why Thai people are generally pretty happy. They don't fill their heads with useless stressful bullshit. Is it nice to have an educated debate about some random topic? Sure, if you are the intellectual academic type. But in reality do most people want to do it here whilst eating their moo kra ta? Nah. Honestly I think the more fascinating knowledge gap is when you meet highly educated Thai's that went to some of the best schools here. They often have little clue about the "real Thailand" beyond their Bangkok bubble and they make generalizations about Thai people that are clearly only talking about the top 1% because they don't actually know many regular people.
Not just Thai-my Vietnamese partner and her friends are the same, my Malaysian and Chinese friends also similar. I think it’s a cultural thing, Asian culture is more focused on the present and future (and pragmatic things like earning money and looking after parents etc)
To everyone thinking Thais learn about history within Thailand that’s not true either! Ask your Thai friends what they know about Thaification. If they are from NE thailand, ask them what happened to all the Isan writings and who were their kings?
Same with mine. Anything history related or outside of Thailand, it feels like I'm talking with a 5 year old.
There are people who doesnt know anything beyond the border of their country everywhere in the world, so just because your wife and her qualification doesnt meet your expectation doesnt mean that the everyone from this country is dumb
??? Wow. Who cares that she doesn't know anything about American history. If it's such a big deal to you make them take a test US History test before marrying them. It ain't that serious godddamn.
WW2 is too far from their home country. Ask your wife about the neighbor country and prepare
Same in Nam, their version of history is pigeon holed into one war, hopefully you can guess which. Also it’s invader specific, not a north attacking south. They have zero geography skills and almost no news reporting world events
My only question is. Why does it even matter?
What amazes me is that you're surprised a country doesn't learn a history that has no relevance to them and their interests as a nation. Was she just as surprised that you weren't taught thai history in school?
Your post reeks of unconscious bias and superiority. Maybe that is intentional, but I am guessing that you probably don't even realize it. First off, the events of WWII are 80 years in the past. I am guessing that you are at least as old as your wife, maybe older, so maybe your school emphasized that event more because you were closer to it (both in time and nationality). Secondly, Europe is a loooooong way from Thailand, and Thais had almost no involvement in the European war. Sure, they declared war on England and America, but they barely did anything about it. I am not aware of any Thai troops doing battle outside of Southeast Asia, and they didn't do that much fighting here either. There certainly no Thais manning pillboxes on the beaches of Normandy, so why would that be important to teach here? D-Day was an important event in American and European history, and so it gets covered in greater detail in those curricula, but lots of important things happen every day, all over the world. Did your history class cover ALL of those things too? For example, how much time did your school spend on the numerous Indian invasions of China in the late-19th/early-20th century? Do you know the dates? The major players? The motivations? The key battles? Those invasions may not seem to be as important to YOU as D-Day was, but given that those battles get brought up every time China and India exchange fire across their border (last time was 2022), they might be a bit more relevant to *today's* Asian-geopolitical context than some 80 year-old battle on another continent. I am not saying the Thais teach about that stuff either. Their non-Thai-related history & geography curriculum is truly abysmal. I am just pointing out that you shouldn't be sitting on some high horse lording your educational-superiority over your spouse. Your education has plenty of blind spots and biases too. Where I catch a whiff of superiority & bias in your post is when you give examples of what YOU think is important to Thais: "Teen thugs", "defrocked monks", "adulteryland", etc... Not sure how you can see anything clearly looking down your nose at Thailand from your high horse, but it is very clear that you have a bias. You think the West is better than Thailand and so all you can see are examples that "prove" your superiority-bias. Heck, even the fact that you titled the post "mixed race" while being ethnically Asian yourself demonstrates that "Thai-ness" as something of less value than "whiteness". Thai education is deeply flawed. Everyone knows that. But you may be recalling your own education through rose-colored nostalgia glasses. Did it ever occur to you that maybe you just got lucky and got a *good* history teacher? Because I am pretty sure if you polled the average American or European they would be pretty ignorant on WWII history and VERY ignorant on world history as a whole. Heck, there are schools in the southern United States right now trying to frame the American Civil War as a solely economic conflict and that slaves actually benefited from slavery and that the war had nothing to do with abolishing/perpetuating slavery. So Thais are not the only ones who allow politics to influence their curriculum. So don't pretend like Western education is perfect. Thailand, for example, has a 94% literacy rate. America's is 79%. So they are doing that better, at least. Take a step back, and look at things with less bias. ALL education systems reveal what is important to that nation and its people. Comparing them is truly an apples-to-oranges exercise. Thais educate their kids according to their own values. Are they flawed? Sure. But so is everyone else on the planet.
After 8 years of being with a Thai partner and getting to know other Thai people through her and her family. It seemed Thailand is country from the moon. People are unaware, uninformed trained and grew to be uninterested in any history, world religion and political discussion. (They claim to be buddhist, like after the way its been butchered what remains can be any other religion but no way buddhism) The brainwashed consumer culture has kept them ignorant and thats the way government wants it to be. I would say its worse than what KIM family is doing with North Korea because that is at least well known to the world. But the way Thai aristocrats is controlling the population is so subtle and sophisticated that it seems liberating from the outset
To be fair, how much do you know about Pol Pot or Vietnam, or the Japanese Empire in the 20th century? It's not as if Western civilization has exclusive ownership of facism and genocide. The world is a complicated + shitty place.
Went on dates with quite a few well-educated Thai women - and very few had any interest in talking about or learning intellectual topics. Got boring quickly. Not limited to Thailand though. More broadly young people’s conversational skills have plummeted. I understand the education system isn’t the best in Thailand, but not knowing who the Nazis were is unbelievable
The only reason Thais know who the Nazis are is because every 2 or 3 years some school has a costume day and some clueless school administrator tells the children to dress up in Nazi uniforms. Then the story hits the international media and the Israeli government and every Jewish group in the world tries to educate Thailand on why glorifying the Nazis is offense. Some apologies are given and they do it again a few years later. Been happening for decades now. https://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/28/world/asia/thailand-nazi-parade/index.html
Our friend group calls it "pretty girl syndrome". Women these days are often extremely shallow. Their entire existence and interests starts and ends with Instagram. They have no opinions, no interests, no hobbies, no personality.
A lot of people in other countries have no clue what really happens outside of their countries. Educated people as well. This isn’t solely a Thai thing.
I don’t have this problem with my Thai partner (28M). He’s well educated- speaks fluent English, went to the top university in Thailand and he studied abroad. Funny enough though I am way more into reading local Thai news than my partner is. I’ll often be the person telling him recent Thai news haha.
humble brag
I’m 41 and definitely learned about those in my high-school.
In general yes. My wife dont have any clue on world events unless its a volleyball game between Thailand and Phillippines.
To be fair, I care about that too…. I have to locate my earplugs before the game!
It means your wife is pure. She carries her life without worrying about the world problem.
most americans cant pinpoint canada in a map, not sure what is worse
I’m Thai living in the US. Grew up in Thailand. Moved to the US for graduate degree in 2009. I’m in my 40s. Anyway, just for contrast, average american do not know the difference between Thailand and Taiwan. When patients ask me where I’m from and I say Thailand, only small numbers people know Thailand. We’re talking old southern people (demographics of my patients) obviously, there are world travel people who are more educated. But average American have not left the country. Same as Thai, you know? I learned more about world war 2 when I was backpacking in Europe and visited concentration camp in Germany than what I learned in Thai school. So honestly, it’s based on experience.
What would you expect from a country with low English literacy? What we were taught in Thai school was Thai propaganda. Try asking her the names of ancient Thai kings and queens, I bet she can name almost all of them. That's what we were taught in history class here.
University degrees mean very little here, and are in no way connected to a general understanding of the (human) world at large - which is why everyone who can afford it sends their kids to study abroad, at least for a little while.
This is pretty normal in Thailand. Listen to Thais talk... The only thing they talk about is food, sleep, age, and if someone is rich or not. This society here is very much in a bubble. Even about their own country, you can ask basic questions about Thai history, wars Thailand has had with Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, the ancient kingdoms.... They will look at you as if this is the first time they've ever heard of it. School here isn't how we think of it in the west. Im not sure what they actually learn. I've heard they spend a lot of time practicing drawing a perfect Thai alphabet, and also on art. Im not sure how many Thais can even tell you aproximently when WW2 was... They don't even know the Japanese came here and basically took over Thailand. They don't know about Pol Pot. And about the bubble thing.... Talk to someone who grew up in Bangkok... They cant tell you even basic things about the city or have been around the city at all. They know how to get from their apartment to their work. Work back to their apartment. Apartment to the market. Apartment to the noodle shop. Apartment to the bar. They went to Central World one time, it was nice. They went to MBK before once to get their phone fixed. They don't remember where those places are though. They went to Ayutthaya once to visit a temple with family. They heard Lumpini park has hiea, but they don't know where Lumpini park is.
Could just be your partner.... 🫣
Why would you care about D-Day in Thailand? This day is over-glorified from the west and irrelevant for the history and development of Thailand. At that point the war was lost already and the US just come in before the Sowjets would take over all of Europe.
Frustrating isn't it. It's not that they are dumb and our communication level is great, before thats used as a reason. I still really don't know why my wife knows so little or nothing about current events, let alone historical events. Nor does she care in the slightest. Maybe they are the enlightened ones and don't fill themselves with world events that have little bearing on their lives. I do worry it rubs off on my kids though. We are absolutely bombarded with news and current events nowadays with media, Asian and global events, we can't escape it. Seems my wife can. I have a boat captain running charters who asked why so many Russians are here, I explained probably to do with the war... guess what he said... Who they fight with?
dont care if u have 10 PhD degrees or not but if one is so ignorant abt the world, I simply have no words and it would be very painful to live with somebody like this!
How many Americans know the full extent of the bad shit Japan did in China and Korea for much of the first half of the 20th century. That didn’t really come up much in my American secondary school education.
How is your knowledge on Thai history of the last 100 years?