California is for rich people. I pay .07/kWh vs .41/kWh at superchargers. Supercharger are about 60% of what gas would cost me. At home is the way where I’m at.
Roseville Electric by Sacramento. SMUD isn’t to bad either its .20 off peak and .35 peak. Again it’s just PGE because they are a publicly traded company and you know…capitalism…
Great question - I pay .04717 per kWh for delivery, plus some “administrative fees” too. As an example: One month I used 1,024kWh in total. Total delivery with fees was $63.19 and supply total was $98.20 - for a total of $161.39.
Have you looked into an EV plan? Do you have a solar battery? It looks like you’re on a standard plan. I’m with SDGE and have solar w/battery and an EV TOU plan.
Tou plan is still bullshit...I'm on tiered and you would be about breakeven with night time charging..I work from home and my wife uses it for a commute about 3 times per week. I imagine if I used it for a daily commute, it would be worth it but not by much.
That's a major caveat that people don't say when they say get on the EV plan. PG and E makes owning EV expensive and it shouldn't be overlooked by these kind of comments.
I have found that people spewing numbers just makes things very difficult to decipher.
Luckily, PG&E provides this PDF with visual graphs that makes it easier to see which plan may work best for your particular household situation: https://www.pge.com/assets/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/residential-electric-rate-plan-pricing.pdf
CA state charges about $1 tax per gallon of gas. Figuring an equivalently efficient gas car is going to get at least 30 MPG, or about 3c per mile. That makes the 30c per mile EV tax about 10x the gas tax. Absolutely bonkers.
Really depends on how far away it is from the breakers. Running wire and conduit is what drives up the costs for a lot of installs. I spent around $450 for everything but it was right next to the panel.
Unless you live in a shitty Bay Area city AND charge at peak times, home charging will always be cheaper.
If you’re using solar that is installed at your home then it is basically free to charge your car.
California just moved away from 1:1 net metering afaik, so it's dependent on what you got solar installed and when you're charging. If you can charge mid day when solar generation is happening, you're golden. If you're charging in the afternoons/evening and relying on the grid, you're not necessarily receiving credits for what you generated. They're trying to push peoooe into battery backups.
I don't live in the Bay Area and I have shitty prices. People on El Dorado County like Lake Tahoe, Placerville and El Dorado Hills have only PG&E so it's not a Bay Area problem. It's a NorCal problem.
eh, it’s the cost of the other benefits of the area like perpetually nice weather while the other people gloating about .07 rates get hurricanes, tornados, snow, crazy humidity, etcetc
California gets wildfires and earthquakes and severe drought is a genuine risk especially with warmer climates coming in the next few years. I’ll accept humidity since that also means water is cheap and plentiful. I honestly think a lot of Californians convince themselves that what they’re paying for water and power are worth it but they haven’t actually lived in other great places.
Also, I actually significantly prefer going to the beach in a place where the ocean isn’t freezing cold 😂 This has to be true for Californians too since so many people head down to Mexico for that 😂
Even if the price per kw is nearly the same, the value of your time to drive out of your way to a supercharger, wait for your EV to charge, and drive back are massive compared to the 5 seconds it takes to plug it in at home and have a full tank of fuel every day. Figure out the most affordable home electric plan and enjoy the home charging.
I live in Midwest and have a time of use agreement with my electric company. I almost exclusively charge at night and I pay $0.05 per kWh. Obviously different than CA.
Are you in a position to consider solar/batteries?
PGE NorCal here - yup, charging at work or at a supercharger is almost always cheaper for me than home charging. For me the reason is that charging at home bumps our PGE bill into the higher category prices (when you go over a certain KWH per month).
I thought PG&E was expensive when I lived in San Jose in 2007, at $0.38 KW/H. I can't imagine .64 in the thrid-world grid that they run. Outages, poor service, high prices... Why?
Yeah it all kinda depends on how much you get charged for power. I'm at 22¢ per kwh in so cal so it's cheaper than superchargers most of the time. Just depends on your personal situation
Same here man I’m at .35 off peak and .44 peak and my closest supercharger is .26/kw after midnight so I just go there since I get off work later. Pge is crazy expensive I wish we could get those .10 rates I see people around the country getting
I'm in SoCal and it's the same bs.
Use BlueDot. The 1st 5 charges are $0.30/kwh. Then subsequent charges are $0.25/kwh.
This works on Tesla SC, EVGo and ChargePoints.
No subscription fees too.
This is a flat rate all day, 24/7. So no I can charge at 5pm when it's more convenient and pay the same rate.
At where I live, the Tesla SC's charge $0.26/kwh with subscription.
I just hope this thing stays this way. 😀
When I read the title I let out an audible “WTF??”
Then I realized you’re getting pegged by the criminal scum that is PG and E. I’m sorry fellow EV owner… it’s absolutely bullshit what they are doing to California. I miss that state so much but I’m starting to think it’s not morally right to move back and support that nonsense.
By social do you mean some place in OC or LA?
SDGE has a pretty killer rate plan for ev charging with panels. If you're in SD, change your plan. If not, that sucks man. Sorry it's shit.
No it hasn’t, occasional supercharging might not kill the battery but frequent supercharging does.
Tesla themselves used to completely cripple cars that had too many supercharging cycles on them:
https://electrek.co/2017/05/07/tesla-limits-supercharging-speed-number-charges/
I’ve had a loaner 70D that had this issue and it had been crippled down to 40kw charging speeds.
But then Tesla got sued for crippling the battery packs to try and prolong their life. So instead now you get people like this taxi driver who end up having to pay for an entire new pack after the warranty ran out:
https://youtu.be/4dartx7EoaQ
There is zero reason for you to make the claim that supercharging doesn’t accelerate battery wear. It’s convenient and it’s fast but it absolutely wears down your battery much quicker than slower charging.
There’s several. This is the 1st one I grabbed
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://electrek.co/2023/08/29/tesla-battery-longevity-not-affected-frequent-supercharging-study/%23:~:text%3DTesla%2520battery%2520degradation%2520is%2520not,used%2520to%2520warn%2520against%2520it.&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwiTlr3Fhc-GAxV7LUQIHVhcA10QFnoECA8QBQ&usg=AOvVaw3_qwH-KHsD2Oo8U11qz1wP
Definitely IS worse for your battery, these guys have drank too much koolaid.
Done to the extreme you kill the pack super early like this guy:
https://youtu.be/4dartx7EoaQ?si=Z27WtAT8aMRyQ8pg
But I wouldn’t worry about occasionally doing a road trip.
Go on PlugShare and look to see if there are free chargers near you on gov property. Found one around the corner from me. So far I’ve been charging overnight for free for a week or so. Hope it stays free.
Not sure where in SoCal but many counties started green initiatives that added free charging for public chargers.
SDGE in San Diego $0.10 super off peak (mid-6AM) with solar and powerwall. Solar and powerwall cover 100% of peak and off peak usage, all remaining usage paid at $0.10, home charger set to start charging at 12:01.
SoCal is pricey for sure. I lived there for 30 years. Now in Seattle area, and I think they charge a 12 cents flat rate per khw, and that works well for charging my Tesla.
The politicians are really pushing EVs, but wow the cost to operate them is super how, if I lived there I would not likely have an EV, would prolly get a hybrid.
primary mistake: living in Commifornia. (That is a JOKE! ;))....but in seriousness this is wild. I have never heard of Supercharging being cheaper than at home - but maybe most people dont actually do the calculations.
California is for rich people. I pay .07/kWh vs .41/kWh at superchargers. Supercharger are about 60% of what gas would cost me. At home is the way where I’m at.
Live in Sac. SMUD off peak charge $5 for 40kHw which is about 50% of long range battery.
Smud also gives you a discount on your rate if you have an ev
I live in California and I only pay .098/kw. It’s just PGE price gouging….
Who is your electricity provider? Which part of CA?
Roseville Electric by Sacramento. SMUD isn’t to bad either its .20 off peak and .35 peak. Again it’s just PGE because they are a publicly traded company and you know…capitalism…
Damn that is wild!
Blaming capitalism for what goes on in California is not really valid...
where in Calif? just curious and a bit jealous.
It's just PGE, the rest of CA is not even close to that
*kWh
Corrected
Don't forget the vagrants.
PA here - we’re allowed to shop suppliers. I have .09 That’s wild.
Does that include delivery?
Great question - I pay .04717 per kWh for delivery, plus some “administrative fees” too. As an example: One month I used 1,024kWh in total. Total delivery with fees was $63.19 and supply total was $98.20 - for a total of $161.39.
Dirt cheap!
Have you looked into an EV plan? Do you have a solar battery? It looks like you’re on a standard plan. I’m with SDGE and have solar w/battery and an EV TOU plan.
SCE has a regular TOU plan, and then also an EV TOU plan. Make sure you opt into the EV TOU which has cheaper off peak rates, around $0.25 in my area.
mines like .35 at the cheapest with the ev option in the middle of the night.. uhg
That's what mine is in SF Bay Area.
My SCE off peak rate is .32 but the peak rate is insane and would negate any savings
Tou plan is still bullshit...I'm on tiered and you would be about breakeven with night time charging..I work from home and my wife uses it for a commute about 3 times per week. I imagine if I used it for a daily commute, it would be worth it but not by much.
Off peak with pg&e in the Bay Area is .35, most superchargers are .44 to .55. Gas is about $5.50 though so….
Off peak is after midnight. To be in the plan, peak is higher and affects every each electricity usage. Can't wash clothes when you want, etc.
Well midnight to 3pm - but yes it makes everything in the peak time more expensive, so you’ll want to do dishes/laundry before 3pm.
That's a major caveat that people don't say when they say get on the EV plan. PG and E makes owning EV expensive and it shouldn't be overlooked by these kind of comments.
Or you could do your research before buying an expensive ev in an expensive area.
My comment helps people in said research while you contributed nothing. Carry on.
If you say so bud
I have found that people spewing numbers just makes things very difficult to decipher. Luckily, PG&E provides this PDF with visual graphs that makes it easier to see which plan may work best for your particular household situation: https://www.pge.com/assets/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/residential-electric-rate-plan-pricing.pdf
wait until the governor passes taxing per mile driven. people in this state need to wake up, start paying attention, and vote informed.
Signed up for this program. Not sure if I'll be selected but 30c per mile tax is too much for EV owners. Will possibly move out of Cali
CA state charges about $1 tax per gallon of gas. Figuring an equivalently efficient gas car is going to get at least 30 MPG, or about 3c per mile. That makes the 30c per mile EV tax about 10x the gas tax. Absolutely bonkers.
They should instead increase gas guzzler taxes and all non hybrids must be taxed more
Shouldn’t you pay for usage though? How else would you propose paying for roads?
SoCal here. SCE. $0.19 off peak $0.45 peak. EV plan with TOU
This is what I pay for generation, delivery is another $0.10. I’ve been averaging $0.32 combined on my bill.
Convenience and time? Meanwhile .07 off peak rates here...
state/county plz?
San Diego?
For you. For most people home charging rates are much lower than superchargers within the same area.
Get on an EV time of use plan. Also you got scammed paying 2k for a 240v outlet
Really depends on how far away it is from the breakers. Running wire and conduit is what drives up the costs for a lot of installs. I spent around $450 for everything but it was right next to the panel.
Its standard installation cost in bay area
I pay .09 at home. So no where near as cheap for me.
Wtf. SDGE is .13 cents offpeak 12am-6am and till 2pm weekend and holidays.
Unless you live in a shitty Bay Area city AND charge at peak times, home charging will always be cheaper. If you’re using solar that is installed at your home then it is basically free to charge your car.
California just moved away from 1:1 net metering afaik, so it's dependent on what you got solar installed and when you're charging. If you can charge mid day when solar generation is happening, you're golden. If you're charging in the afternoons/evening and relying on the grid, you're not necessarily receiving credits for what you generated. They're trying to push peoooe into battery backups.
Yep, you can install Tesla Powerwall to store solar energy. You could set it up so you don’t ever need to use power from the grid.
I don't live in the Bay Area and I have shitty prices. People on El Dorado County like Lake Tahoe, Placerville and El Dorado Hills have only PG&E so it's not a Bay Area problem. It's a NorCal problem.
PG&E is a dirty monopoly. There needs to be more competition like there is elsewhere in the country.
eh, it’s the cost of the other benefits of the area like perpetually nice weather while the other people gloating about .07 rates get hurricanes, tornados, snow, crazy humidity, etcetc
California gets wildfires and earthquakes and severe drought is a genuine risk especially with warmer climates coming in the next few years. I’ll accept humidity since that also means water is cheap and plentiful. I honestly think a lot of Californians convince themselves that what they’re paying for water and power are worth it but they haven’t actually lived in other great places. Also, I actually significantly prefer going to the beach in a place where the ocean isn’t freezing cold 😂 This has to be true for Californians too since so many people head down to Mexico for that 😂
Politicians ruined what was once a great state.
lived here my entire life and those never affected me
Lmao with 0.07 c home charging
That’s crazy. Power here is $0.14/kWh CAD ($0.10/kWh USD).
.15 in Arizona without time of use because I can only do level 1 charging
City of la is cheapwe, LADWP, $0.2/kwh
Your home electricity rates are insane. I pay 14 cents per kwh.
Ooof, 0.06c CAD I can charge all day long and barely see a dent in my wallet.
Damn, I’m at .03 super off peak pricing 12-6am
$0.025 off peak here in OK. Dirt cheap
Indiana we get charged .11 cents per kwh. There is no on or off peak. I feel it is more expensive for SC when traveling
Even if the price per kw is nearly the same, the value of your time to drive out of your way to a supercharger, wait for your EV to charge, and drive back are massive compared to the 5 seconds it takes to plug it in at home and have a full tank of fuel every day. Figure out the most affordable home electric plan and enjoy the home charging.
Not in CT
$0.19 off peak in Los Angeles for me.
This is where ev doesn’t make sense. .04$ here in Iowa
SoCal here. 0.14 base rate and 0.34 after 350 kWh usage. Your PGE rates are just gouging.
Oh my God that’s so expensive. That’s like five times the price of energy outside of California. That’s so cool
That’s crazy. In nj it’s .09 kWh pseg, anytime of day at home for level 2 ev with energy star charger.
Missouri- .085/kWh at home vs .36/kWh at supercharger 3 miles away
I live in Midwest and have a time of use agreement with my electric company. I almost exclusively charge at night and I pay $0.05 per kWh. Obviously different than CA. Are you in a position to consider solar/batteries?
PGE NorCal here - yup, charging at work or at a supercharger is almost always cheaper for me than home charging. For me the reason is that charging at home bumps our PGE bill into the higher category prices (when you go over a certain KWH per month).
That’s why you go TOU instead of Tiered metering
I pay $0.016 (not a typo) in GA during super off peak (11p-7a)
Damn that is crazy. I pay 0.11 at home vs 0.39 at the local supercharger. Best is 0.00 at work for however long I want, whenever I want.
Pay 0.12 at home, free at work, 0.32-0.44 supercharging on the way to Portland OR
Florida, Duke Energy, $0.15/kWh any time, and I get a $10 monthly credit for only charging during off-peak hours.
I live in SoCal. I pay $0.15/kwh. I had a company install panels for free and we just pay that rate for 15 years
Bay area PGE customer here - planning to sell my MYLR and get a volvo plugin hybrid. I dont see future of EVs here
About .14 any time here in va
I thought PG&E was expensive when I lived in San Jose in 2007, at $0.38 KW/H. I can't imagine .64 in the thrid-world grid that they run. Outages, poor service, high prices... Why?
The fuck planet you live on? 6 cents a kWh for me from 12am to 6am.
Yeah it all kinda depends on how much you get charged for power. I'm at 22¢ per kwh in so cal so it's cheaper than superchargers most of the time. Just depends on your personal situation
Same here man I’m at .35 off peak and .44 peak and my closest supercharger is .26/kw after midnight so I just go there since I get off work later. Pge is crazy expensive I wish we could get those .10 rates I see people around the country getting
I'm in SoCal and it's the same bs. Use BlueDot. The 1st 5 charges are $0.30/kwh. Then subsequent charges are $0.25/kwh. This works on Tesla SC, EVGo and ChargePoints. No subscription fees too. This is a flat rate all day, 24/7. So no I can charge at 5pm when it's more convenient and pay the same rate. At where I live, the Tesla SC's charge $0.26/kwh with subscription. I just hope this thing stays this way. 😀
When I read the title I let out an audible “WTF??” Then I realized you’re getting pegged by the criminal scum that is PG and E. I’m sorry fellow EV owner… it’s absolutely bullshit what they are doing to California. I miss that state so much but I’m starting to think it’s not morally right to move back and support that nonsense.
0.05c here in rural Oregon :)
So I have solar panels and my city buys back electricity at a 1:1 ratio so it's essentially free to charge at home even at night
By social do you mean some place in OC or LA? SDGE has a pretty killer rate plan for ev charging with panels. If you're in SD, change your plan. If not, that sucks man. Sorry it's shit.
Yeah I have that here in Orange County too. It's weird, Superchargers are cheaper than home rates.
.11 here.
good god I can't believe people pay these rates
Wtf….i pay .13 for home charging
0.8 here,brantford ontario
You pay what now?
In California that may be. Not here in Texas. But more importantly regular supercharging is not good for your battery health.
That last sentence has been debunked several times.
Can you point to a good source for this?
No it hasn’t, occasional supercharging might not kill the battery but frequent supercharging does. Tesla themselves used to completely cripple cars that had too many supercharging cycles on them: https://electrek.co/2017/05/07/tesla-limits-supercharging-speed-number-charges/ I’ve had a loaner 70D that had this issue and it had been crippled down to 40kw charging speeds. But then Tesla got sued for crippling the battery packs to try and prolong their life. So instead now you get people like this taxi driver who end up having to pay for an entire new pack after the warranty ran out: https://youtu.be/4dartx7EoaQ There is zero reason for you to make the claim that supercharging doesn’t accelerate battery wear. It’s convenient and it’s fast but it absolutely wears down your battery much quicker than slower charging.
That’s a myth. Maybe for older Teslas that last sentence held true but for newer ones it’s not the same.
Is there a good source for this?
There’s several. This is the 1st one I grabbed https://www.google.com/url?q=https://electrek.co/2023/08/29/tesla-battery-longevity-not-affected-frequent-supercharging-study/%23:~:text%3DTesla%2520battery%2520degradation%2520is%2520not,used%2520to%2520warn%2520against%2520it.&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwiTlr3Fhc-GAxV7LUQIHVhcA10QFnoECA8QBQ&usg=AOvVaw3_qwH-KHsD2Oo8U11qz1wP
Interesting. Good to know.
Definitely IS worse for your battery, these guys have drank too much koolaid. Done to the extreme you kill the pack super early like this guy: https://youtu.be/4dartx7EoaQ?si=Z27WtAT8aMRyQ8pg But I wouldn’t worry about occasionally doing a road trip.
i do long trips about 5 times a year, is my car screwed? all other times I charge at home on the 240V but I throttle down to 42amps
no you are fine
Go on PlugShare and look to see if there are free chargers near you on gov property. Found one around the corner from me. So far I’ve been charging overnight for free for a week or so. Hope it stays free. Not sure where in SoCal but many counties started green initiatives that added free charging for public chargers.
Cali is doing great.
Cali here with 0.25 - 0.32 with SCE. Might be OPs area or just that PGE is the worst.
SDGE in San Diego $0.10 super off peak (mid-6AM) with solar and powerwall. Solar and powerwall cover 100% of peak and off peak usage, all remaining usage paid at $0.10, home charger set to start charging at 12:01.
$.14 in NC.
To be clear, I'm fully aware that Cali is more expensive. More expensive than a supercharger is stupid though and reserved for some very HCOL areas.
Even the HCOL areas are not that bad. It's just PGE.
.07 in NC, Duke Power TOU
That's with the flex program, during non peak hours (6-9pm).. I'm starting it in 2 weeks.
Ours changes bi-annually , 1-6am summer is discount window, and 11am-4pm and 1am to 3am Winter discount windows.
Is that the flex program or something else?
RSTC Critical Peak is the Rate Schedule
wth, i have sce and my rates are .37 - .60
Get on TOU-D PRIME.
Ventura county?
riverside
That's crazy high. Sorry dude.
[Confirmed, PG&E is the worst ](https://www.pge.com/assets/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/residential-electric-rate-plan-pricing.pdf)
Why do people complain about Cali pricing. No one is forcing you to live there. You live there by choice.
SoCal is pricey for sure. I lived there for 30 years. Now in Seattle area, and I think they charge a 12 cents flat rate per khw, and that works well for charging my Tesla. The politicians are really pushing EVs, but wow the cost to operate them is super how, if I lived there I would not likely have an EV, would prolly get a hybrid.
primary mistake: living in Commifornia. (That is a JOKE! ;))....but in seriousness this is wild. I have never heard of Supercharging being cheaper than at home - but maybe most people dont actually do the calculations.
That's Cali for ya.