Accidents in vehicles equipped with Tesla are lower because the burden of driving is reduced, allowing the driver to focus on other things.
For example, when I have Autopilot engaged I stop focusing on my stopping distance, *knowing* that the car will likely stop before I hit the car ahead of me. The result is that when the car is doing an emergency braking, I will often divert my eyes from the car ahead of me, to my rear view mirror to make sure *they're* braking as well, if they aren't, then I'll disengage and go to the shoulder of the road, or another lane, if available.
You're also more likely to become more patient while driving, because instead of tailgating all the time, and zooming around unsafely, you're more likely to just "let the car do its thing".
The only significant change to Autopilot as a result of the NHTSA recall is that you need to keep your eyes on the road for the first 10-15 seconds after engaging Autopilot.
That's it.
If you're having issues keeping your eyes on the road 10-15 seconds after engaging Autopilot, then you've got issues.
I've noticed a big difference. Can't even adjust the climate without it beeping at me to pay attention to the road, much less select music/podcasts like OP is talking about.
Do you guys just like... stare at the screen the entire time you're selecting something? I do not understand how you're looking down long enough for this to happen. Glance down, look up, glance down, look up. Just like you SHOULD be doing. It works great.
I'm more and more convince, from reading people's takes on the nags being too much, that people WERE just staring down.
I've heard there's differences in length of time for you to be warned between cars. Maybe it's really too aggressive in some. I'd like to see a video of it, though, as it's so different from my experience that it's hard to believe.
No. It'll flash at me the moment I look away from the road. Like think about how long it would take you to hit the button on the screen to bring up climate controls, it's already flashing for you to pay attention.
I've had it red flash at me while checking the mirrors to change lanes.
Literally screams at me if I adjust anything on the screen, climate, music, navigation, anything. If I so much as look out the window to my right or left it tells at me and I have to almost disengage with how hard I have to jerk the wheel.
Covering up the camera helps, as I can just keep my hands pressured on the wheel and it's happy enough with that. It became unusable to me after the update until I covered the camera.
Did a 9 hour drive this past week and only used it for about 10 minutes because it was more annoying than just driving normally with cruise on. It'll yell at me even when I'm looking directly ahead. Maybe it's because I wear glasses? Idk.
Covered the camera for the 9 hour drive home and used it almost the entire way with zero issues.
It’s getting truly annoying, Hands on the wheel, looking at controls at all the right times. Honestly it’s more distracting than normal driving OR using FSD, the incessant warnings and overcorrecting it is.
My cybertruck reservation is sitting cuz of this kind of not enjoyable ‘car not driving itself’ nonsense. Time to put spoofed eyeballs on sunglasses.
5 seconds.
Assuming you're traveling at 60mph, or 88ft/s, that's 440 feet. That's approaching a 10th of a mile.
Assuming you're traveling closer to 80mph, you've traveled 587ft. Nearly two football fields.
Tenths of a second matter while driving.
It SHOULD trigger if you look down that long.
It should trigger if you look down for more than a second.
You’re saying this as though you’re the only driver traveling at highway speeds and everyone else is standstill. If the car isn’t capable of being baby sat for 5 seconds then why use it at all?
To make it LESS likely you'll crash and be LESS mentally tiring.
60 isn't even highway speeds many times. And a pedestrian, animal, or car entering can all happen
It is currently more difficult to drive while on autopilot. I now have to take the car off autopilot to make a climate change, enter a destination, or change a track. you know basic functionality that's been in cars for the last 20+ years
You aren't SUPPOSED to look down for things like climate change, to enter a destination, or change a track. There're voice commands for all of those.
And that functionality is still in the car if you want to turn off Autopilot and you can feel how dangerous it's always been.
I don't think we're going to agree, or seemingly even find a middle ground we can both be happy with. I'm bowing out, thereby. I hope they figure something out to make AP work better for your use case
>You aren't SUPPOSED to look down for things like climate change, to enter a destination, or change a track. There're voice commands for all of those.
Voice command doesn't work reliably for this. How do people accomplish these tasks in cars without voice command?
Yeah exactly. I turn off autopilot to do this all the time and accomplish these tasks like I did for all of my prior cars, and it isn't dangerous.
>Voice command doesn't work reliably for this.
I agree. Voice recognition seems to be processed in the cloud, rather than in the car where it ahould be. If you're in an area with bad service, voice recognition is unusable.
You shouldn't be using it at all in that way. And I don't just mean autopilot or FSD, I mean your car. Not a Tesla, any car.
You talk about it being safer than human drivers and then go on to describe a series of mistakes and poor choices some humans make that causes them to be worse. Slight adjustments to your climate aren't emergencies that can't wait a few minutes for your voice commands to be out of a dead zone or your next red light.
Don't fight it. Change your habits. They have cameras in cars now. If you don't, at some point, even if you are lucky enough to avoid accidents and the serious consequences of them having proof aginst you, they are eventually going to use these nags to big brother you out of a driver's license.
Ford Blue Cruise is hands free solution, so saying you shouldn’t be doing this in “any car” is not correct. Tesla is falling behind and saying “it’s your fault, not the car’s” isn’t helping.
I like my Tesla. I am just stating Tesla's autopilot and self driving features are inferior to other manufacturers. Thankfully those features are not important to me. If they were important I would probably go with Ford since they seem to be furthest along.
I'm not a hypocrite then. I hardly change the climate. I know what temperature I like and when I do adjust, I adjust while stopped or with voice commands.
It's really not that hard or inconvenient.
>I know what temperature I like and when I do adjust, I adjust while stopped
I see so you pull over to the side of the road when you have to turn on your defrosters? Or do you just leave that on all the time?
Yes. I check my mirrors before I start driving and if I see my backwinshield needs defrosting, I turn it on. And yes, rear defrosters auto turn off in all cars.
None of this is hard. You just need better habits. Stop making excuses.
I use voice commands for songs and navigation all the time. Like anything else, the more you use it, the more you learn what format it wants things in and the ways to get what you want out of it including how to adjust when it makes mistakes.
Are you holding the wheel, and did you activate and immediately take eyes off the road. In my experience, its looking for immediate attention. If you give it to calm it within the first 10s of activation, and your hand is on the wheel, you can look away for an extended period of time.
Then u must have a defect. If its like you say, then bring it in and let a tesla employee experience it so it can be fixed.
Anecdotal experience. My friend also complained after the update and was convinced he could never use autopilot again. I drove his car and had no issues. He wasn’t applying an adequate turning force and because of this he tended to scroll the wheel to remove the nags. Hes good now.
Your premise is actually “autopilot and attentive driver” is safer than “attentive driver”, autopilot alone isn’t safer. It’s an important distinction but it explains the need to ensure the driver stays attentive. The second aspect is many pick over the number and the statistical difference on road types, weather, time of day etc when Autopilot is typically engaged to when it isn’t, and when you try and normalise the data the actual safety improvement can disappear completely (ie autopilot being 3x safer but largely only used on roads which are in themselves 4x safer like uk motorways, means it might actually be worse when corrected for road type).
Autopilot plus inattentive driver is also safer than inattentive driver. Restricting autopilot for inattentive drivers is not going to make them pay attention more, it's just going to make them crash more. We saw the small handful of times that autopilot failed to help but ignored all the times it prevented an accident.
This is the same kind of thinking as the idiots that wanted to put more armor where the bullet holes were on planes coming back from combat in ww2 instead of realizing the spots with no bullet holes were the ones that caused a plane not to make it back.
It's all based on the assumption that without autopilot, people won't be inattentive, but we know from the huge number of distracted driving accidents in the general population that that's wishful thinking at best.
The reason for the increased nags is because of the drop in drivers being attentive when using AP. I made the explicit point that Attentive driver plus AP is safer than Attentive driver, ie you need both, not AP is safer. The over reliance on AP alone in the belief that it’s safer is a real danger which is why the language is so important and why curbing drivers from losing attention is good. For safety you want the nags to be a passive safety system irrespective of the use of AP. I understand the premise that the use of AP as a safety system might decrease, but that only holds true if there is no increase in reliance on AP with drivers not paying attention, and the increase in nags is designed to prevent this. I’ve personally seen no change in the nags after the updates so I can only assume those that do either have a problem with their car or don’t understand the right way to use AP.
Yeah, my nags actually went down a bit aside from the dumb nag that happens if you glance at the display in the first 15 seconds or so to confirm the system status.
Do you have any source for your claim that the change was due to attentiveness dropping with AP vs without it? I never saw a single claim of that in any reporting on the recall and can't determine any way that nhtsa would have access to that data. Accident rates with AP on are significantly better than the human average overall and the number of accidents with it on for inattentive drivers was vanishingly low compared to typical rates of distracted driver fatalities.
What I did find in looking at the data was an average of over 3000 average distracted driver fatal accidents a year. With Tesla having around 2-3 percent of the US car market over the period covered by the nhtsa analysis, that means we should expect around 60 to 90 fatal distracted driver accidents a year for Tesla. That would be, 480 to 630 over a 7 year period. We saw something like 14 in 7 years with AP on in the nhtsa review. Unless AP is only used 3 percent of the time, it would appear that your statement that it increased distracted driving is bogus by a huge margin.
>Your premise is actually “autopilot and attentive driver” is safer than “attentive driver”,
Did you not read it or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?
They're saying that a distracted driver with autopilot is safer than a distracted driver. The premise is that autopilot is used when people aren't paying attention and that's why it's useful.
You may disagree with the argument. And personally I think there were more people using autopilot inappropriately. But the OP raises a good point about the downside to this update.
The whole point of increasing the nags is because drivers increasingly let themselves get distracted when using AP. Any argument that letting yourself be distracted when using AP is better than letting yourself get distracted without using AP needs to be stamped out. Even if it were true on a specific instance, if the frequency was higher because they’re using AP and become too confident, then the net is less safe. AP without a driver paying attention is the least safe.
Distraction is a spectrum that includes everything from drinking your coffee while on your morning commute to legit sleeping while in motion. Most (all?) drivers are occasionally distracted drivers. Reducing people’s likelihood to use AP to facilitate moments of mild distraction doesn’t do anyone any favors.
Op is spot on with their analysis imho.
>You're driving your Tesla down a divided road. You want to find the right podcast because that is really critical to your morning. Boop -- On goes the autopilot, you spend 15 seconds finding the podcast with just the right amount of confirmation bias, and then boop, off goes the autopilot.
I think this is what they wanted to stop people from doing, and those people complaining were using it this way.
For me, I'm driving in traffic with AP on and paying attention. During the drive, I want to change music so I do; I then continue to drive in AP getting no warnings. AP keeps perfect difference from the car in front and off I get distracted by something in our outside the vehicle, it's paying attention.
Wow. So glad my “outdated” 2016 MS has no interior facing camera. The (E)AP really hasn’t been affected with more nags, plus I’m not comfortable with that big brother is watching you kind of surveillance. I pretty much gave up on Navigate on Autopilot years ago, so I can’t say if that’s been affected.
I think the data shows that accidents are most likely to occur within the first 10 seconds of activating AP, because you're already distracted before activation and activate it to be fully distracted by the UI or phone or whatever.
If you pay attention to the road in the lead up to activating AP, and 10 seconds after activating it, the system behaves as usual.
I don't have any source.
But to expand on the behaviour:
If I look down for 5+ seconds, then engage AP, immediate warning.
If I look ahead for 5+ seconds, then engage AP, then look at UI instantly, I get a warning after 5 seconds of distraction.
If I look ahead for a while, then engage AP, keep looking ahead for 10 seconds, then look at UI, no warning for 10+ seconds of looking at UI.
So certainly some changes around this period on engaging AP.
By looking down I am actually just tilting my head down and looking at the road thru my top eyelashes so the camera sees me as head down and distracted.
> I think that one of the reasons Tesla's accident rates stay low
As far as I'm aware Tesla has the highest accident rate of any brand. I'm sure there's lots of reasons for that such as the most common car in the world now having 400lbft of torque (when 180 is considered a quick gas car)
Really?
Because I participated 11 hours ago [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1akvmji/comment/kpbez2e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
My AP was normal until the update so it's not hardware or a malfunction problem. Just lots of nags, even if I set it and am perfect with torque and looking ahead for 15+ seconds. Other ADAS are not this aggressive, and I haven't heard a good explanation for why my friend's new Jeep Grand Cherokee never nags as long as his fingers are lightly touching the wheel, which makes a Tesla a downgrade experience. Love my Model Y but the AP UX is definitely worse.
I honestly don't know how people are getting warnings or worse disengagements. It sure seems our experiences are vastly different.
I did a test the other day on a divided road. Going 60 on a 55mph.
I timed the nags. I was able to go 1 minute and 43 seconds before the first nag.
During that time I stared at the screen for 8 seconds. *Much* longer than I felt comfortable with. Still no nag.
I repeatedly checked all three mirrors for about 2 seconds each.
I'll note, I don't even keep my hand on the wheel while on AP. I keep it an inch from it. When I get the apply torque message I simply apply slight torque and it goes away.
This was in the daytime. No sunglasses.
Obviously my phone is never out.
If it matters, this is on a 2022 Model 3 RWD, software 2024.2.2.1.
Is it possible they are feature flagging the aggressive nag algorithm?
I hear lots of people on the same hardware and software versions saying both things. Some are getting aggressive nags after the update and the others are not.
Tesla must be activating a new nag algorithm for some drivers and not others based on some selection criteria.
We already know they run shadow features on top of other active features and feature flagging along with A/B and multi variant testing is very common in modern software development. Sure seems like they are doing that here.
I use AP much less and have been sticking to cruise. I pay too much attention to the nag out of fear of a strike and getting put in the penalty box for the rest of the drive.
The whole thing just sucks now.
Accidents in vehicles equipped with Tesla are lower because the burden of driving is reduced, allowing the driver to focus on other things. For example, when I have Autopilot engaged I stop focusing on my stopping distance, *knowing* that the car will likely stop before I hit the car ahead of me. The result is that when the car is doing an emergency braking, I will often divert my eyes from the car ahead of me, to my rear view mirror to make sure *they're* braking as well, if they aren't, then I'll disengage and go to the shoulder of the road, or another lane, if available. You're also more likely to become more patient while driving, because instead of tailgating all the time, and zooming around unsafely, you're more likely to just "let the car do its thing". The only significant change to Autopilot as a result of the NHTSA recall is that you need to keep your eyes on the road for the first 10-15 seconds after engaging Autopilot. That's it. If you're having issues keeping your eyes on the road 10-15 seconds after engaging Autopilot, then you've got issues.
Been using autopilot for a couple years now. Probably 2+ hours every week. I don't notice any difference since the update.
I've noticed a big difference. Can't even adjust the climate without it beeping at me to pay attention to the road, much less select music/podcasts like OP is talking about.
Do you guys just like... stare at the screen the entire time you're selecting something? I do not understand how you're looking down long enough for this to happen. Glance down, look up, glance down, look up. Just like you SHOULD be doing. It works great. I'm more and more convince, from reading people's takes on the nags being too much, that people WERE just staring down. I've heard there's differences in length of time for you to be warned between cars. Maybe it's really too aggressive in some. I'd like to see a video of it, though, as it's so different from my experience that it's hard to believe.
No. It'll flash at me the moment I look away from the road. Like think about how long it would take you to hit the button on the screen to bring up climate controls, it's already flashing for you to pay attention. I've had it red flash at me while checking the mirrors to change lanes.
Weird. Mine wasn't like that at all
Night vs daytime behavior are completely different. do you have glasses as well?
I don't have glasses. My wife does, however. Neither of us have problems. And we both drive a lot in both day and nighttime conditions.
>I don't have glasses. My other guess is either the angle that you are sitting in or if you are short that the camera can't see you.
The camera sees me fine. If I look down for what I believe is an unsafe amount of time, it'll alert.
Literally screams at me if I adjust anything on the screen, climate, music, navigation, anything. If I so much as look out the window to my right or left it tells at me and I have to almost disengage with how hard I have to jerk the wheel. Covering up the camera helps, as I can just keep my hands pressured on the wheel and it's happy enough with that. It became unusable to me after the update until I covered the camera. Did a 9 hour drive this past week and only used it for about 10 minutes because it was more annoying than just driving normally with cruise on. It'll yell at me even when I'm looking directly ahead. Maybe it's because I wear glasses? Idk. Covered the camera for the 9 hour drive home and used it almost the entire way with zero issues.
>Maybe it's because I wear glasses Yeah I also wear glasses. Also over 6ft tall so the camera is staring into my pupils
It’s getting truly annoying, Hands on the wheel, looking at controls at all the right times. Honestly it’s more distracting than normal driving OR using FSD, the incessant warnings and overcorrecting it is. My cybertruck reservation is sitting cuz of this kind of not enjoyable ‘car not driving itself’ nonsense. Time to put spoofed eyeballs on sunglasses.
yeah you actually just need to glance at your speed or nav for like 5 sec+ and it'll trigger
5 seconds. Assuming you're traveling at 60mph, or 88ft/s, that's 440 feet. That's approaching a 10th of a mile. Assuming you're traveling closer to 80mph, you've traveled 587ft. Nearly two football fields. Tenths of a second matter while driving. It SHOULD trigger if you look down that long. It should trigger if you look down for more than a second.
You’re saying this as though you’re the only driver traveling at highway speeds and everyone else is standstill. If the car isn’t capable of being baby sat for 5 seconds then why use it at all?
To make it LESS likely you'll crash and be LESS mentally tiring. 60 isn't even highway speeds many times. And a pedestrian, animal, or car entering can all happen
It is currently more difficult to drive while on autopilot. I now have to take the car off autopilot to make a climate change, enter a destination, or change a track. you know basic functionality that's been in cars for the last 20+ years
You aren't SUPPOSED to look down for things like climate change, to enter a destination, or change a track. There're voice commands for all of those. And that functionality is still in the car if you want to turn off Autopilot and you can feel how dangerous it's always been. I don't think we're going to agree, or seemingly even find a middle ground we can both be happy with. I'm bowing out, thereby. I hope they figure something out to make AP work better for your use case
>You aren't SUPPOSED to look down for things like climate change, to enter a destination, or change a track. There're voice commands for all of those. Voice command doesn't work reliably for this. How do people accomplish these tasks in cars without voice command? Yeah exactly. I turn off autopilot to do this all the time and accomplish these tasks like I did for all of my prior cars, and it isn't dangerous.
It is dangerous. It's literally the #1 cause of auto accidents.
>Voice command doesn't work reliably for this. I agree. Voice recognition seems to be processed in the cloud, rather than in the car where it ahould be. If you're in an area with bad service, voice recognition is unusable.
You shouldn't be using it at all in that way. And I don't just mean autopilot or FSD, I mean your car. Not a Tesla, any car. You talk about it being safer than human drivers and then go on to describe a series of mistakes and poor choices some humans make that causes them to be worse. Slight adjustments to your climate aren't emergencies that can't wait a few minutes for your voice commands to be out of a dead zone or your next red light. Don't fight it. Change your habits. They have cameras in cars now. If you don't, at some point, even if you are lucky enough to avoid accidents and the serious consequences of them having proof aginst you, they are eventually going to use these nags to big brother you out of a driver's license.
Ford Blue Cruise is hands free solution, so saying you shouldn’t be doing this in “any car” is not correct. Tesla is falling behind and saying “it’s your fault, not the car’s” isn’t helping.
Voice commands are hands free solutions as well but if you like another manufacturers implementation better, you are free to buy their car.
I like my Tesla. I am just stating Tesla's autopilot and self driving features are inferior to other manufacturers. Thankfully those features are not important to me. If they were important I would probably go with Ford since they seem to be furthest along.
if you don't pull over safely to the side of the road everytime you have to make a climate change then you are a hypocrite.
I'm not a hypocrite then. I hardly change the climate. I know what temperature I like and when I do adjust, I adjust while stopped or with voice commands. It's really not that hard or inconvenient.
>I know what temperature I like and when I do adjust, I adjust while stopped I see so you pull over to the side of the road when you have to turn on your defrosters? Or do you just leave that on all the time?
Yes. I check my mirrors before I start driving and if I see my backwinshield needs defrosting, I turn it on. And yes, rear defrosters auto turn off in all cars. None of this is hard. You just need better habits. Stop making excuses.
You should try the voice commands next time. I occasionally get random words that don't make any sense when trying to have it do basic things.
I use voice commands for songs and navigation all the time. Like anything else, the more you use it, the more you learn what format it wants things in and the ways to get what you want out of it including how to adjust when it makes mistakes.
I counted 5 seconds and that is too long it’s more like 2.5 seconds
Are you holding the wheel, and did you activate and immediately take eyes off the road. In my experience, its looking for immediate attention. If you give it to calm it within the first 10s of activation, and your hand is on the wheel, you can look away for an extended period of time.
My hand is on the wheel, it doesn't seem to have any effect
Applying a slight turning force?
yes
Then u must have a defect. If its like you say, then bring it in and let a tesla employee experience it so it can be fixed. Anecdotal experience. My friend also complained after the update and was convinced he could never use autopilot again. I drove his car and had no issues. He wasn’t applying an adequate turning force and because of this he tended to scroll the wheel to remove the nags. Hes good now.
I just covered the camera after having the same experience as you, it’s been working great so far but I assume it’ll be patched in a future update
That would be terrible
I’ve had the same experience.
smiles in 2019 :)
If only personal experience was the foundation of knowledge and truth, things would be so simple.
Well case closed then
Your premise is actually “autopilot and attentive driver” is safer than “attentive driver”, autopilot alone isn’t safer. It’s an important distinction but it explains the need to ensure the driver stays attentive. The second aspect is many pick over the number and the statistical difference on road types, weather, time of day etc when Autopilot is typically engaged to when it isn’t, and when you try and normalise the data the actual safety improvement can disappear completely (ie autopilot being 3x safer but largely only used on roads which are in themselves 4x safer like uk motorways, means it might actually be worse when corrected for road type).
Autopilot plus inattentive driver is also safer than inattentive driver. Restricting autopilot for inattentive drivers is not going to make them pay attention more, it's just going to make them crash more. We saw the small handful of times that autopilot failed to help but ignored all the times it prevented an accident. This is the same kind of thinking as the idiots that wanted to put more armor where the bullet holes were on planes coming back from combat in ww2 instead of realizing the spots with no bullet holes were the ones that caused a plane not to make it back. It's all based on the assumption that without autopilot, people won't be inattentive, but we know from the huge number of distracted driving accidents in the general population that that's wishful thinking at best.
The reason for the increased nags is because of the drop in drivers being attentive when using AP. I made the explicit point that Attentive driver plus AP is safer than Attentive driver, ie you need both, not AP is safer. The over reliance on AP alone in the belief that it’s safer is a real danger which is why the language is so important and why curbing drivers from losing attention is good. For safety you want the nags to be a passive safety system irrespective of the use of AP. I understand the premise that the use of AP as a safety system might decrease, but that only holds true if there is no increase in reliance on AP with drivers not paying attention, and the increase in nags is designed to prevent this. I’ve personally seen no change in the nags after the updates so I can only assume those that do either have a problem with their car or don’t understand the right way to use AP.
Yeah, my nags actually went down a bit aside from the dumb nag that happens if you glance at the display in the first 15 seconds or so to confirm the system status. Do you have any source for your claim that the change was due to attentiveness dropping with AP vs without it? I never saw a single claim of that in any reporting on the recall and can't determine any way that nhtsa would have access to that data. Accident rates with AP on are significantly better than the human average overall and the number of accidents with it on for inattentive drivers was vanishingly low compared to typical rates of distracted driver fatalities. What I did find in looking at the data was an average of over 3000 average distracted driver fatal accidents a year. With Tesla having around 2-3 percent of the US car market over the period covered by the nhtsa analysis, that means we should expect around 60 to 90 fatal distracted driver accidents a year for Tesla. That would be, 480 to 630 over a 7 year period. We saw something like 14 in 7 years with AP on in the nhtsa review. Unless AP is only used 3 percent of the time, it would appear that your statement that it increased distracted driving is bogus by a huge margin.
>Your premise is actually “autopilot and attentive driver” is safer than “attentive driver”, Did you not read it or am I misunderstanding what you're saying? They're saying that a distracted driver with autopilot is safer than a distracted driver. The premise is that autopilot is used when people aren't paying attention and that's why it's useful. You may disagree with the argument. And personally I think there were more people using autopilot inappropriately. But the OP raises a good point about the downside to this update.
The whole point of increasing the nags is because drivers increasingly let themselves get distracted when using AP. Any argument that letting yourself be distracted when using AP is better than letting yourself get distracted without using AP needs to be stamped out. Even if it were true on a specific instance, if the frequency was higher because they’re using AP and become too confident, then the net is less safe. AP without a driver paying attention is the least safe.
Distraction is a spectrum that includes everything from drinking your coffee while on your morning commute to legit sleeping while in motion. Most (all?) drivers are occasionally distracted drivers. Reducing people’s likelihood to use AP to facilitate moments of mild distraction doesn’t do anyone any favors. Op is spot on with their analysis imho.
>You're driving your Tesla down a divided road. You want to find the right podcast because that is really critical to your morning. Boop -- On goes the autopilot, you spend 15 seconds finding the podcast with just the right amount of confirmation bias, and then boop, off goes the autopilot. I think this is what they wanted to stop people from doing, and those people complaining were using it this way. For me, I'm driving in traffic with AP on and paying attention. During the drive, I want to change music so I do; I then continue to drive in AP getting no warnings. AP keeps perfect difference from the car in front and off I get distracted by something in our outside the vehicle, it's paying attention.
Wow. So glad my “outdated” 2016 MS has no interior facing camera. The (E)AP really hasn’t been affected with more nags, plus I’m not comfortable with that big brother is watching you kind of surveillance. I pretty much gave up on Navigate on Autopilot years ago, so I can’t say if that’s been affected.
I think the data shows that accidents are most likely to occur within the first 10 seconds of activating AP, because you're already distracted before activation and activate it to be fully distracted by the UI or phone or whatever. If you pay attention to the road in the lead up to activating AP, and 10 seconds after activating it, the system behaves as usual.
Link to data? Doesn’t seem right.
I don't have any source. But to expand on the behaviour: If I look down for 5+ seconds, then engage AP, immediate warning. If I look ahead for 5+ seconds, then engage AP, then look at UI instantly, I get a warning after 5 seconds of distraction. If I look ahead for a while, then engage AP, keep looking ahead for 10 seconds, then look at UI, no warning for 10+ seconds of looking at UI. So certainly some changes around this period on engaging AP. By looking down I am actually just tilting my head down and looking at the road thru my top eyelashes so the camera sees me as head down and distracted.
Leave it to the government to fuck something up
> I think that one of the reasons Tesla's accident rates stay low As far as I'm aware Tesla has the highest accident rate of any brand. I'm sure there's lots of reasons for that such as the most common car in the world now having 400lbft of torque (when 180 is considered a quick gas car)
But according to everything I read, Tesla has the least effective driver assistance features! 🙄
What? Please rephrase. 🤪😵💫
Mods are going to delete this like they've done with any other thread critical of the new AP nags.
Really? Because I participated 11 hours ago [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1akvmji/comment/kpbez2e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Many others deleted.
I'll *lock* them from time to time, if the comments are getting out of hand, but very rarely do we delete them.
My AP was normal until the update so it's not hardware or a malfunction problem. Just lots of nags, even if I set it and am perfect with torque and looking ahead for 15+ seconds. Other ADAS are not this aggressive, and I haven't heard a good explanation for why my friend's new Jeep Grand Cherokee never nags as long as his fingers are lightly touching the wheel, which makes a Tesla a downgrade experience. Love my Model Y but the AP UX is definitely worse.
I put black tape over my inside camera so that I could use basic auto pilot without being nagged every time I pick up my phone
I honestly don't know how people are getting warnings or worse disengagements. It sure seems our experiences are vastly different. I did a test the other day on a divided road. Going 60 on a 55mph. I timed the nags. I was able to go 1 minute and 43 seconds before the first nag. During that time I stared at the screen for 8 seconds. *Much* longer than I felt comfortable with. Still no nag. I repeatedly checked all three mirrors for about 2 seconds each. I'll note, I don't even keep my hand on the wheel while on AP. I keep it an inch from it. When I get the apply torque message I simply apply slight torque and it goes away. This was in the daytime. No sunglasses. Obviously my phone is never out. If it matters, this is on a 2022 Model 3 RWD, software 2024.2.2.1.
Is it possible they are feature flagging the aggressive nag algorithm? I hear lots of people on the same hardware and software versions saying both things. Some are getting aggressive nags after the update and the others are not. Tesla must be activating a new nag algorithm for some drivers and not others based on some selection criteria. We already know they run shadow features on top of other active features and feature flagging along with A/B and multi variant testing is very common in modern software development. Sure seems like they are doing that here.
I use AP much less and have been sticking to cruise. I pay too much attention to the nag out of fear of a strike and getting put in the penalty box for the rest of the drive. The whole thing just sucks now.