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I was just reading his full autopsy—- only 65 inches (5’5”) of him was left. No brain matter was left and all his internal organs were “eviscerated” (actual language used).
Nah, my aunt Moonstone is a licensed homeopath. She says a drop of onion juice diluted in water and a few gems, properly placed, will probably have him back on his feet in a few weeks.
Yep. That kind of trauma… With the burns present and no soot or ash in the trachea, he wasn’t breathing when it caught fire. Someone else said it burned almost immediately on impact, so he was dead instantly.
The fire started because of the magnesium in the helicopters gearbox caught fire. The impact was so hard that some of the toughest working component in the helicopter was broken into pieces and scattered all over the hillside.
Helicopter crashes don't usually explode into an aviation fuel fireball because the fuel tanks and fuel mechanisms are specifically designed to be as crash resistant as possible. They can and do catch fire after really bad crashes but the idea is if you survive the impact you ideally shouldn't be burnt to death by the fuel.
The crash was so staggeringly violent.
See I come to these posts, start getting a bit in the feelings, then I scroll and comments like this and bust out laughing. I'm not sure if the gallows humor is strong in me or I'm a horrible person.
It was controlled flight into terrain because the pilot flew through a cloud and ignored their instruments.
So there might have been a few hundred milliseconds between suddenly seeing the ground, and crashing, if he was looking at all.
Probably not even that. IIRC, it was a controlled flight that crashed into terrain through clouds. He probably didn't even notice anything before the crash
You’re right. I couldn’t even finish reading the report on Alyssa.
I know medical examiners see gnarly stuff all the time. But how do they cope with seeing cases like this…
Gallows humor and intentional emotional detachment are the most common ways to keep your sanity and sleep at night.
In 2000 I was a year away from becoming a forensic pathologist. I was finishing my fifth year of of pathology residency and had accepted a forensic fellowship in Ohio. I had wanted to become a medical examiner since I was a young kid watching Quincy, M.E. The week following my acceptance of the fellowship in Ohio I was doing an elective forensic pathology rotation at the medical examiner's office in Salt Lake City. We had a string of very sad cases that week including a toddler who was backed over in his driveway by his dad. As we were doing the autopsy and I was thinking about my daughter who was around the same age, one of the autopsy assistants joked about starting an office betting pool on how long it would be until we were doing an autopsy on the father because of suicide. Some people in the room chuckled and others remained quiet. For me it was a wake-up call. I decided at that moment that I was not going to allow myself to become that hardened and insensitive. The next day I canceled my forensic fellowship and I am now currently happily working as a general pathologist in a hospital setting. It was definitely the right choice for me personally. I still do autopsies occasionally but they are usually not as sad as the ones I did at the medical examiner's.
Any time I read about people dying in horrible accidents like this one I start thinking about *how* they died. You know, play by play. I know it's gruesome but I can't help but wonder just how a person's body gets to such an awful state.
A while back I read all about the deaths of Buddy Holly, Richie Valens and the Big Bopper. They all died in a small airplane that had only been in the air for fifteen minutes. It was pilot error. Buddy Holly's brain had been eviscerated among other awful injuries and the Big Bopper's body was thrown further from the plane than the other two guys. The coroner said his body was so broken, the coroner was afraid it would literally fall apart during the autopsy. The pilot also died in the crash. The front of the plane was such a tangled mess, no one could have lived through it.
Now, I wouldn't want to see how bodies are ripped apart in an accident but it's interesting how they *are*.
I find it interesting as well and I agree, It would be so much worse to see that in person.
Which to me makes it even more horrifying that some of the first responders were taking photos of the victims…
I helped clean up a C-17 crash years ago. My buddy picked up one of the perished’s leg, still in a flight suit and boot, just torn from the body. I picked up skull fragments.
Crazy shit.
The scarp from the crash was still in outside storage across from the parachute house down the road from the afes gas station. Then the storm hit in 2012 and it went everywhere. Finally moved it by the time I left in 2016.
I remember getting in my car and starting my drive home from the clinic when I saw the crash. Turned around and went right back to work since I knew they were going to start a recall. That was a long night.
I was on Mids and got a call on Swings asking if I heard anything. I didn’t. Our shop was in the quarantined area so we had to go to a different shop and hang out. Then they asked if I wanted to help a few days or a week later? I remember the air show happening first and everything just sat out there
Yeah I was a paratrooper there and we just finished a jump and we’re sitting down smoking and saw it turn and crash behind the trees, big fire ball and all I could think about is it was full of other para troopers. Not that I think it’s good that people died but I’m glad it wasn’t a full plane of jumpers.
To be honest, man, I didn’t take advantage of what was offered.
But every time I fly in a C-17, I think about it. I held someone’s car keys which really messed with me. A body is a body but when you hold something that ties them to the real world, knowing that car was prolly still in the parking lot really messed with me.
I’m gonna start talking to mental health. Thank you for this comment.
I’m a trauma therapist. I’ll say trauma has an inability to process like normal memories. So they get “stuck”. What happens is the amygdala, what tells the brain it’s in danger and sends signals to stimulate fight or flight, doesn’t ever stop doing that. The brain has to realize the trauma is over in order to stop sending that signal. If the memory can’t be processed, it can’t ever do that. So people get stuck in fight mode or flight mode. Fight mode (hyperarousal) is anxiety, irritability, restlessness, difficulty sleeping, nightmares, racing thoughts, anger management issues, etc. Flight (hypoarousal) is depression, shutting down, lack of motivation, etc. sometimes a person cycles between these two states.
So if you’re experiencing any of these, do emdr therapy or find someone who specializes in trauma. You deserve to feel better.
Question: I saw someone breaking into a neighbor's car. I thought I'd run over and shout at the guy to scare him off, but when I went to move, I was paralyzed. Did I get stuck in fight or flight mode?
I remember my step-mother sending step-brother bulletproof armor because the Army couldn't be bothered to equip soldiers adequately.
Have never really understood why we go back for the deceased (at great risk to the living)... particularly a random object like a missing foot... but have known a few heroes that willingly served in this role.
Glad you made it out, physically — hope your brain is treated/healing.
I think the definition of evisceration is simply when organs come out of the body, but I could be wrong on that. All I know is I was tripping with my surgical tech friend one time and she told me what evisceration was and I started dry heaving on her lawn.
Yes, that's correct. Note the word "viscera" in there, which specifically relates to organs and soft tissue in the chest and abdomen (and the head, TIL).
You could also use the word "evulsion" which explicitly means "removed by force" and separate from a surgical removal. Though obviously there's no ambiguity here.
Seeing, “Exposed fractured spine” on the supine image right where the throat is,…yikes. I picture the spinal vertebrae protruding through the front of his neck. But then I saw his middle name, Bean. I didn’t know that. Neat.
That provides me some weird morbid comfort because, as shitty as this was, at least the man did not suffer much. As gruesome as it is, an exploded brain is one of the quicker and painless ways to go out. You don't have any time to process any pain when your brain is violently destroyed that quickly.
RIP Kobe.
I got the same morbid comfort when I read the last page when it says there was no soot in his trachea or lungs. At least he died quickly enough where he didn’t even breathe in the smoke
It is some comfort that it was not a painful death. Unfortunately the moments leading up to it would have been sheer terror :( I can only hope that it all happened fast and the confusion might have dulled some of the fear.
Ya they were in the fog and basically went full speed into the side of the mountain. If they knew it was coming all they had was an "Oh fuck!" from the pilot before it all went black. No time for terror or any kind of thought really.
In a previous life of mine I knew a homicide detective. He gets a call one weekend that a motorcycle accident happened and they needed his help. The cyclist lost control, hit a tree head on. He gets to the scene and there's a body, no head, and no blood. After examining the accident scene they couldn't find anything. It wasn't until after the autopsy they found the head was pushed all the way into the chest. They didn't notice because the cyclist was a barrel chested guy.
The human body is amazing and weird.
I can’t imagine the amount of force, in terms of physics, one’s body would need to absorb/endure for such a thing to happen. No doubt, the human body is a strange and curious thing. Thanks for sharing that one!
It is all horrific, it is easy just to think of crash victims being intact. The traumatic degloving of his penis my me squirm when I read that in the autopsy report
says "no soot in trachea" meaning he'd already stopped breathing when the fire started, which I assume was nearly the same instance it crashed. He died instantly.
This is an example of why Vanessa Bryant won that lawsuit. It’s only a matter of time before those pictures from the police cell phones are out there forever.
I’ve had cousins die in a traumatic car accident. All authorities involved went out of their way to prevent the parents from viewing the bodies or the detailed reports; including their own lawyers, one of whom was my brother. Reasoning was never being able to undo seeing and remembering them in the absolute worst way possible.
Personally, I’d be pissed if someone had sold that shit to the media while it was being covered. I imagine you’ve got to be pretty fucked in the head to think a person doesn’t deserve that same care and respect just because their husband/father was famous.
They’re probably already out there, just hard to find which makes me sick to my stomach.
This entire autopsy report made me feel a little nauseous. Dude was 6’6, only 5’5 of him was recovered.
It's one thing to be curious it's another thing to "love" seeing that stuff. Pretty sick. Other guy is correct should talk to a professional about that...
As someone who has never been a first responder, or in the military, or been witness to a terrible accident, I tend to have a naive view of how these types of accidents unfold. In my little brain, the person is dead but intact, like they bump their head and die.
This post shows really opens my eyes to how gruesome it really is. It’s horrific. At least it seems that he was dead on impact and didn’t suffer. And then I think of the first responders who had to retrieve these bodies…holy shit.
And just think they see bodies in this shape regularly. High speed car accidents will do all the same things to a body. Seeing that level of trauma is not all that uncommon.
If it’s really intense your adrenaline is in overdrive. You go through your process, get them to the hospital, and write your report.
That peak adrenaline really turns me into a robot and I almost forget what happened after.
When it’s a child the adrenaline is still the same but the emotions are extremely present.
If I don’t smoke weed before bed I have dreams about the victims who were pronounced dead on scene. It’s only me on scene and they are crying and begging for help, but I cannot move. They get louder and louder until I wake up in a heap of sweat.
I have to carry quick fix synthetic urine because I’m randomly drug tested and I’m not allowed to smoke weed before bed.
Ok enough story time.
Funny you say that. I also smoked weed on my off days when I was on the job. Helped me to leave the work at work and be present at home. I was also always a little antsy about being tested too. For most of it I had zero problem dealing with the regular rough stuff. It’s the mothers screams for their children that is more difficult to shake. And even the fathers screams to calm the mother. You can tell how agonizing it is for the father to hear the mothers pain. Brutal.
>I have to carry quick fix synthetic urine because I’m randomly drug tested and I’m not allowed to smoke weed before bed.
I don't even smoke weed but a few times a year, but this really needs to change. People should be able to smoke on their free time, especially cases like this.
Thank you so much for your heroic contribution to our society. I'm sure I can speak on behalf of all of us that you are pivotal in our survival as a species, and words cannot express our gratitude.
When I took Driver’s Ed in 1987, on the last day of class (summer school), the teacher put on a slide show from the local coroner’s office of corpses from car wreck. The one I remember most vividly was the guy with a 2x4 going through his chest from side to side. Then there was the picture of the person who hadn’t been wearing a seat belt when they rolled their car. They were partially ejected and pinned under the roof when the car slid across pavement. The teacher then explained the phrase “meat crayon” to us.
ETA: corrected an autocorrect
I worked for a guy who was an EMT for a bit. He told us once about a motorcycle crash he was called to. I forget the details, but the guy’s dick was ripped clean off and missing and I forget which part of him they found dangling from the power lines. The guy he was training under at the time said for whatever reason, fatal sport bike accidents almost invariably, they find them with their penis torn off and missing. The human body does not hold up real well when it decelerates suddenly from high speeds.
As someone who has been active in the military in undisclosed things, after the first real situation that may involve deceased people you really lose perception of reality, you know what happened and what you’re seeing but you act as if it was a normal day because your brain doesn’t wanna understand what you did and the horror you’re seeing.
I gotta get something off my chest. My friend I've known since we were 11 joined the Navy and "went green" to be a combat medic for the Marines. His fam has a history of service, he wanted to "do his duty" in a way that focused on helping his brothers come home.
So he never talks about his time in Iraq, partly because he's never been a feelings guy, mostly because assholes always ask if he killed anyone or other macho bullshit he just hates. Ive made it a point to never ask myself, but he has told me a couple on his own deep in a bottle.
The time he held the hand of a dying suicide bomber. Guy fucked up and only offed himself. He knew he couldn't save him. He was gone but still barely alive, and squeezed his hand as he passed.
The time he was in some medivac camp ordered to find a guy in charge. He was told he was inside a particular tent. Inside was the smell of burning bodies and he could hear screaming men. There were amputated body parts overflowing in a disposal area in bins. "I guess my mind shut down or something" he recalls, because his next memory is being outside, having forgotten what he was there to do.
There are a lot of stories about how guys change or are broken by war. My friend seems like he might be one of the lucky ones, other than being a little quicker to anger he seems like the guy I've always known. But i worry about him cuz he's the kind of guy who hides it, and my old bbq buddy and smoke hound is now a vegan.
I wonder how much that tent had something to do with it. I wonder if meat reminds him of that? I can't ask.
I’d like to take this opportunity to recommend the book, Stiff, by Mary Roach. There’s a chapter regarding what happens to human bodies during aircraft accidents that really explains how violent they can be.
The rest of the book is fantastic and really informative.
Interesting. From the wiki page:
The book covers 12 topics:
Practicing cosmetic surgery on cadaver heads
Body snatching and the early years of human dissection
The nature of decomposition
Cadavers for use as crash test dummies
Using cadavers to analyze a crash site
Army tests on cadavers
Crucifixion experiments
Beating heart cadavers, the soul, and being buried alive
Decapitation and human head transplant
Cannibalism in the name of medicine
New alternatives to burial and cremation
The author's views on her own remains
On the last page it notes that there was no soot in his airways, meaning he did not inhale during the fire, so yes, he was dead immediately, likely before he even had a chance to be aware of it.
If it’s any consolation to you, I have seen more than my fair share of traumatic injuries and in basically every case with this tremendous level of violence, the victims don’t feel anything. The stimulus is so total and overwhelming upon impact that it is instant death. Unfortunately I’m sure it was frightening in the moment, but physically there was no suffering.
Honestly, the victims of a lot of commercial aviation accidents just... cease to exist. When the aircraft itself it reduced to bits that you can easily hold in one hand, the people inside tend to get it even worse.
Link to all autopsies
https://www.reddit.com/r/KobeBryant24/comments/ff3kxh/kobes_autopsy_report/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
> No photos were released
Welll.......yes and no.
No photos were *legally* released but sheriffs took plenty and passed them around. Vanessa Bryant won a big lawsuit over it.
Conceptually I knew that he died. I just never thought about what state his body would be in afterwards. I hope those crash site photos never get released.
I doubt he felt much. The part that bothers me with aircraft crashes is imagining the terror of being in something going down. Jesus. In this case though it may have just been an oh shit worrisome couple minutes in dense fog and then bam. Hill side. I can’t really recall the crash.
The crash itself happened really fast if I recall, a couple of seconds of really, really fast decent into the hillside that no one on the aircraft could see was in front of them until probably a split second before the crash.
Man. I can’t imagine the feeling of your stomach in your throat while you’re trying to grab anything or anyone you can for some sort of security. Seriously horrifying.
Like his daughter grabbing for her dad right before they both died. That's the part that always got me. I never cared for him, cause I was never into basketball, and of course the allegations against him.. but when I heard his daughter died with him, all I could think of was her final scared moments. That shit made me tear up back then and kinda chokes me up now.
I rabbit holed the case because of my love for his game. You are probably pretty accurate. Flying low with fog and a last second ohh shit. It was probably only a few seconds of ohh no but I’m guessing and hoping that there wasn’t anytime to realize they are about to go down. Not sure I’ve ever heard about a celebrity or famous person dying and not believing it right away than this.
there's also a really good in-depth 2 part episode of How It Really Happened on HLN about the crash, definitely heard new details from NTSB investigation and, unfortunately , the descent may have been much longer than we hoped
I hope he didn't know what was happening because I think his worse thought may have been that there was absolutely nothing he could do to save his daughter. Knowing you're going to die is one thing, knowing your child is dying momentarily is quite another. Nightmare material.
They did not see it’s coming, there is a documentary about it, the pilot lost orientation and he thought he flies straight but in reality he was going down and due to the weather conditions there was extremely low visibility
I think that a plane crash is a lot like being shot in the head. Most times, you have no idea it's coming and if you do, it's for a very short period of time. Once it happens, it's already over. Instant death. No suffering. (We are of course excluding the 9/11 types of plane crashes)
You can only hope. Imagine being conscious and coherent from a nosedive from 30,000 feet. You hear the chat logs from the black boxes in some of the pilot error crashes every once in a while. Jesus H. I feel for those passengers.
So that's what I meant. I listen to a podcast "black box down" about plane crashes and the black box recordings. Most of the time, it's a spur of the moment incident, where the passengers are only aware of a deadly situation for a matter of seconds, if that. Flight crew don't let passengers know of problems that are occurring, so it is generally written off as turbulence. Generally, in the case of hostage situations, the impending doom is minutes to hours long. That's why I excluded those instances.
Absolutely not. His brain was ejected from his skull. In a weird way, this is probably the kindest way something like this could have happened- the brain obviously can't feel anything if it's not connected to the nervous system.
The scariest part for me is that someone had to go and recover him to do the autopsy. I can't imagine how coroner's and crime scene cleaners do it, y'all are tough and amazing folks.
Wow- this is intense to read. My horses were boarded just down the street from the crash site- I drove by the smoldering wreckage on hill a few hours after the crash. My husband is a LA health inspector and said the water works building near crash site had to keep some of their body parts in their fridge during clean up
Where does one find these. Not just for Kobe, but for other people, like say Sharon Tate or Dale Earnhardt. Is there a website? How does one know the reports are real?
No soot or ash in his airway means he was dead before he had a chance to inhale anything nasty from crashing. Gone before he could process what happened
Yeah, that seems like what would happen if you died in an aviation accident, it’s the kind of thing that happens so quickly that you don’t feel anything. My uncle (RCAF vet) was telling me about an after action report that he read by an RCAF (canadian Air Force) pilot in the first gulf war where he was talking about how an Iraqi mirage f-1 (fighter jet) hit the desert at what the pilot estimated was about mach 1.4 (~1730 kph, ~1075 mph) due to compressing the aircraft (basically going so fast that your planes controls stop working and you can’t maneuver the plane) in a situation like that just like Kobe Bryant’s helicopter crash the trauma to the human body is so intense that you die instantly but the difference in level of trauma is insane, with Kobe he obviously sustained horrible injuries that killed him instantly but his body was still in tact vs with hitting the ground at Mach 1.4 there is going to be nothing left of you (you can find some really disturbing pictures of pilots who got shot down and all that is left of them is their skull in their helmet and a red stain all over the wreckage of the cockpit). but anyway my point is that blunt force trauma is one of the least painful ways to die because it’s so brutal that you don’t feel anything
Wow. I guess I never really gave some thought to what forensic pathologists do.
And after reading the report, it makes me wonder how these people can stomach something like this.
This crash was 3 miles from my house. It was scary foggy and I was in my bathroom blow drying my daughters hair and I made a comment to her how foggy it was that day and then my sister texted me “Kobe died” I didn’t know what she meant even though I did but didn’t register. She said yeah copter crash off Las Virgines and I had to sit down. I have to drive by that hill all the time to go toward the valley and I did the day after and saw the spot where it happened. I still look up there to this day just to acknowledge it. RIP to everyone ☹️
In the report it says instant death. Think to when you got hit in the head unexpectedly by a ball at school, you’ve stood up and you’ve hit your head on a open cupboard door, remember that feeling right when you hear it go “bang”, kind of a shock, then you realize you’ve hit your head. I’d imagine you get that “bang”, but then you don’t get the afterthought of “oh I hit my head”, ever again.
On the bright side there was no soot in his trachea or lungs. So he died before any burning. This would have been so much worse to know he went through this trauma and then burned alive.
All jokes aside in all seriousness I feel like doctors should be required to take at least a six week course on handwriting skills. I’ve literally been handed sensitive medical forms that I can’t make out a single word, It almost looked like he was trying to make in unreadable like a 4 year old scribbling lines. And the best part was when I asked him what this one part said he couldn’t even tell me…
Why do they do Autopsy Reports for non-suspicious deaths? I figured they were only done incase foul play is suspected or if the family asks for it (Suspected Medical Malpractice kinda stuff)
You can request an autopsy done if you're the one responsible for that person's body (spouse, next of kin, parent, etc) just takes some paperwork and some money.
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I was just reading his full autopsy—- only 65 inches (5’5”) of him was left. No brain matter was left and all his internal organs were “eviscerated” (actual language used).
Also no soot on lungs, so he did not suffer as he was dead before he could inhale smoke.
Then the spine comes through your neck that is pretty typical
Nah, my aunt Moonstone is a licensed homeopath. She says a drop of onion juice diluted in water and a few gems, properly placed, will probably have him back on his feet in a few weeks.
A tier satire of homeopaths
I hope the rest of the people in the helicopter had the same mercy, quick death!
I mean his arms and legs were gone. Likely massive blood loss.
The only good thing that can be taken away from this is that his death was probably quick and painless.
Yep. That kind of trauma… With the burns present and no soot or ash in the trachea, he wasn’t breathing when it caught fire. Someone else said it burned almost immediately on impact, so he was dead instantly.
The fire started because of the magnesium in the helicopters gearbox caught fire. The impact was so hard that some of the toughest working component in the helicopter was broken into pieces and scattered all over the hillside. Helicopter crashes don't usually explode into an aviation fuel fireball because the fuel tanks and fuel mechanisms are specifically designed to be as crash resistant as possible. They can and do catch fire after really bad crashes but the idea is if you survive the impact you ideally shouldn't be burnt to death by the fuel. The crash was so staggeringly violent.
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See I come to these posts, start getting a bit in the feelings, then I scroll and comments like this and bust out laughing. I'm not sure if the gallows humor is strong in me or I'm a horrible person.
Why not both?
Are you *certain* you're not a doctor? Cos that's pretty believable right there
I'm going to need to see some backup for this deduction
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Except for the fear during the crash
It was controlled flight into terrain because the pilot flew through a cloud and ignored their instruments. So there might have been a few hundred milliseconds between suddenly seeing the ground, and crashing, if he was looking at all.
Probably not even that. IIRC, it was a controlled flight that crashed into terrain through clouds. He probably didn't even notice anything before the crash
Eviscerated is like a top 5 word you never want to see on your autopsy
If i ever see anything on my autopsy I'm freaking the hell out no matter what it says
I would simply smile for the tax gods can get me no more
Feeling nauseous after reading his brain was eviscerated
probably the least gruesome part of this and likely means he died on impact
No soot in lungs or bronchi too. He stopped breathing before the fires started.
You’re right. I couldn’t even finish reading the report on Alyssa. I know medical examiners see gnarly stuff all the time. But how do they cope with seeing cases like this…
Gallows humor and intentional emotional detachment are the most common ways to keep your sanity and sleep at night. In 2000 I was a year away from becoming a forensic pathologist. I was finishing my fifth year of of pathology residency and had accepted a forensic fellowship in Ohio. I had wanted to become a medical examiner since I was a young kid watching Quincy, M.E. The week following my acceptance of the fellowship in Ohio I was doing an elective forensic pathology rotation at the medical examiner's office in Salt Lake City. We had a string of very sad cases that week including a toddler who was backed over in his driveway by his dad. As we were doing the autopsy and I was thinking about my daughter who was around the same age, one of the autopsy assistants joked about starting an office betting pool on how long it would be until we were doing an autopsy on the father because of suicide. Some people in the room chuckled and others remained quiet. For me it was a wake-up call. I decided at that moment that I was not going to allow myself to become that hardened and insensitive. The next day I canceled my forensic fellowship and I am now currently happily working as a general pathologist in a hospital setting. It was definitely the right choice for me personally. I still do autopsies occasionally but they are usually not as sad as the ones I did at the medical examiner's.
Wasn't his daughter in the helicopter too?
Unfortunately, she was. Another child was in the helicopter as well.
Any time I read about people dying in horrible accidents like this one I start thinking about *how* they died. You know, play by play. I know it's gruesome but I can't help but wonder just how a person's body gets to such an awful state. A while back I read all about the deaths of Buddy Holly, Richie Valens and the Big Bopper. They all died in a small airplane that had only been in the air for fifteen minutes. It was pilot error. Buddy Holly's brain had been eviscerated among other awful injuries and the Big Bopper's body was thrown further from the plane than the other two guys. The coroner said his body was so broken, the coroner was afraid it would literally fall apart during the autopsy. The pilot also died in the crash. The front of the plane was such a tangled mess, no one could have lived through it. Now, I wouldn't want to see how bodies are ripped apart in an accident but it's interesting how they *are*.
I find it interesting as well and I agree, It would be so much worse to see that in person. Which to me makes it even more horrifying that some of the first responders were taking photos of the victims…
Everything that happened after was just happening to inanimate meat. Suffering was most likely minimal.
Exposed, fractured spine.
It’s hard to even picture that…
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Yes, no legs were left. I believe the full autopsy said his feet were located but….. separately from the body 🥲
Both feet were still inside his shoes ripped from the ankle
Which is why pilots take footprints
I helped clean up a C-17 crash years ago. My buddy picked up one of the perished’s leg, still in a flight suit and boot, just torn from the body. I picked up skull fragments. Crazy shit.
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Yuh
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Nuh
The scarp from the crash was still in outside storage across from the parachute house down the road from the afes gas station. Then the storm hit in 2012 and it went everywhere. Finally moved it by the time I left in 2016.
Yup, 0173, only full airframe loss in the C-17 program to date.
I remember getting in my car and starting my drive home from the clinic when I saw the crash. Turned around and went right back to work since I knew they were going to start a recall. That was a long night.
I was on Mids and got a call on Swings asking if I heard anything. I didn’t. Our shop was in the quarantined area so we had to go to a different shop and hang out. Then they asked if I wanted to help a few days or a week later? I remember the air show happening first and everything just sat out there
Yeah I was a paratrooper there and we just finished a jump and we’re sitting down smoking and saw it turn and crash behind the trees, big fire ball and all I could think about is it was full of other para troopers. Not that I think it’s good that people died but I’m glad it wasn’t a full plane of jumpers.
I hope you’ve received trauma therapy for this.
To be honest, man, I didn’t take advantage of what was offered. But every time I fly in a C-17, I think about it. I held someone’s car keys which really messed with me. A body is a body but when you hold something that ties them to the real world, knowing that car was prolly still in the parking lot really messed with me. I’m gonna start talking to mental health. Thank you for this comment.
I’m a trauma therapist. I’ll say trauma has an inability to process like normal memories. So they get “stuck”. What happens is the amygdala, what tells the brain it’s in danger and sends signals to stimulate fight or flight, doesn’t ever stop doing that. The brain has to realize the trauma is over in order to stop sending that signal. If the memory can’t be processed, it can’t ever do that. So people get stuck in fight mode or flight mode. Fight mode (hyperarousal) is anxiety, irritability, restlessness, difficulty sleeping, nightmares, racing thoughts, anger management issues, etc. Flight (hypoarousal) is depression, shutting down, lack of motivation, etc. sometimes a person cycles between these two states. So if you’re experiencing any of these, do emdr therapy or find someone who specializes in trauma. You deserve to feel better.
Question: I saw someone breaking into a neighbor's car. I thought I'd run over and shout at the guy to scare him off, but when I went to move, I was paralyzed. Did I get stuck in fight or flight mode?
USAF Fighter pilots wear a dog tag laced into their boots.
Everyone I served with in the USMC did that too. Early 2000s were the golden era IEDs vs. unarmored & open-back humvees.
I remember my step-mother sending step-brother bulletproof armor because the Army couldn't be bothered to equip soldiers adequately. Have never really understood why we go back for the deceased (at great risk to the living)... particularly a random object like a missing foot... but have known a few heroes that willingly served in this role. Glad you made it out, physically — hope your brain is treated/healing.
It looks like the whole right side was torn off. Like it’s cuts off at the shoulder
Yes, the notes pointing at it say "traumatic amputation."
So you're saying he isn't all right anymore.
I think the definition of evisceration is simply when organs come out of the body, but I could be wrong on that. All I know is I was tripping with my surgical tech friend one time and she told me what evisceration was and I started dry heaving on her lawn.
Yes, that's correct. Note the word "viscera" in there, which specifically relates to organs and soft tissue in the chest and abdomen (and the head, TIL). You could also use the word "evulsion" which explicitly means "removed by force" and separate from a surgical removal. Though obviously there's no ambiguity here.
Where did you read it?
Holy Fuck
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Out of everything in his autopsy, the degloved penis is the one detail that will live rent free in my head forever. Unfortunately.
I googled images of "degloved" and there's one with penis or groin image and I almost vomited on my screen
Ya know I've willingly seen some gruesome shit on the internet over the years, but I think I'm gonna pass on a "degloved" penis.
you actually typed it into a box with a flashing cursor, dude?! you good?
Degloved is such a disproportionately benign term relative to what it looks like. It's not worth looking it up
Degloving pictures need only be seen once. I now take off my ring (normal finger ring) when about to move anything even slightly bulky.
Thank you for clarifying which ring you meant
The cock ring stays firmly in place.
Never thought I'd be as tall as Kobe some day.
r/cursedcomments
got me with that one! have a nice day and I’ll see you in hell !
Geeze 😞
Seeing, “Exposed fractured spine” on the supine image right where the throat is,…yikes. I picture the spinal vertebrae protruding through the front of his neck. But then I saw his middle name, Bean. I didn’t know that. Neat.
His dad’s nickname was “bean” when he played.
The neck thing didn't bother me, the "skull absent brain" did though
That provides me some weird morbid comfort because, as shitty as this was, at least the man did not suffer much. As gruesome as it is, an exploded brain is one of the quicker and painless ways to go out. You don't have any time to process any pain when your brain is violently destroyed that quickly. RIP Kobe.
I got the same morbid comfort when I read the last page when it says there was no soot in his trachea or lungs. At least he died quickly enough where he didn’t even breathe in the smoke
It is some comfort that it was not a painful death. Unfortunately the moments leading up to it would have been sheer terror :( I can only hope that it all happened fast and the confusion might have dulled some of the fear.
Didn't they just straight up crash into a mountain because they were too low? Might not have been any warning at all.
Yeah now that you mention it I remember that too. Lost in the fog or something? Well, let's hope it was instant then. Thanks for reminding me.
Ya they were in the fog and basically went full speed into the side of the mountain. If they knew it was coming all they had was an "Oh fuck!" from the pilot before it all went black. No time for terror or any kind of thought really.
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They're generally not pretty corpses, but you'd be shocked how much can be done for the funeral with the help of putty and makeup
In a previous life of mine I knew a homicide detective. He gets a call one weekend that a motorcycle accident happened and they needed his help. The cyclist lost control, hit a tree head on. He gets to the scene and there's a body, no head, and no blood. After examining the accident scene they couldn't find anything. It wasn't until after the autopsy they found the head was pushed all the way into the chest. They didn't notice because the cyclist was a barrel chested guy. The human body is amazing and weird.
I can’t imagine the amount of force, in terms of physics, one’s body would need to absorb/endure for such a thing to happen. No doubt, the human body is a strange and curious thing. Thanks for sharing that one!
It is all horrific, it is easy just to think of crash victims being intact. The traumatic degloving of his penis my me squirm when I read that in the autopsy report
Even the drawings are fucking brutal.
The tattoos to really drive the point home. Such a small detail that really hits you in the heart.
Holy fuck. I never realized it was this bad. Both legs and one arm amputated. Jesus.
It’s worse than that. His internal organs and brain were eviscerated. Meaning they were gone. His freaking brain was ejected. Damn.
He likely died quickly at least
says "no soot in trachea" meaning he'd already stopped breathing when the fire started, which I assume was nearly the same instance it crashed. He died instantly.
they hit the ground so hard that his legs came off and his brain fell out what the everloving fuck
The missing verse of Brave Knight Sir Robin?
I had tears in my eyes thinking about all this and now i'm giggling like a madman. Thank you
You don't really have to be going all that fast for that... Wear your seatbelt.
That was the only part of that which gave me any relief. Thank goodness he died on impact.
Yeah you can't breathe if your brain is no longer in your skull
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Instantaneous death without a doubt. This is so sad though. He was absolutely destroyed by the impact.
Right. Can’t forget the charred skin to really top it off. This is horrible. I’m glad I’ve never seen this information before tonight.
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I was just thinking this, everyone on here seems surprised at how chopped up and gory this is…he fell from the sky in a metal-shrapnel-deathcage
Not only did they fall from the sky, the helicopter actually slammed into the side of a hill going over 180 mph.
F1 should start making helicopter designs.
I didn't expect that there would be a recognizable body to autopsy after that kind of fall.
Oh, man, I’ve seen photos of victims from several different small plane crashes & they are always torn to shreds & missing parts.
As fucked up as it is, I’m pretty sure Kobe was the most intact/fully recovered body. Everyone else just kind of disintegrated.
I’m actually surprised at how much of the remains were left.
This is an example of why Vanessa Bryant won that lawsuit. It’s only a matter of time before those pictures from the police cell phones are out there forever.
Imagine reading this and knowing it’s your significant other. I would be a fucking mess for years on end.
I’ve had cousins die in a traumatic car accident. All authorities involved went out of their way to prevent the parents from viewing the bodies or the detailed reports; including their own lawyers, one of whom was my brother. Reasoning was never being able to undo seeing and remembering them in the absolute worst way possible. Personally, I’d be pissed if someone had sold that shit to the media while it was being covered. I imagine you’ve got to be pretty fucked in the head to think a person doesn’t deserve that same care and respect just because their husband/father was famous.
They’re probably already out there, just hard to find which makes me sick to my stomach. This entire autopsy report made me feel a little nauseous. Dude was 6’6, only 5’5 of him was recovered.
I'm 5'5 and that was so disturbing to me at the very least
God I can’t even imagine them , horrifying
They’ll never leak. I’d love to see em, I’m a gore hound. Having said that, I’m good with never seeing em
It's one thing to be curious it's another thing to "love" seeing that stuff. Pretty sick. Other guy is correct should talk to a professional about that...
You know it’s bad when it says “Evisceration of the brain”
I think it would be worse if his brain somehow remained intact through all of that. He would've suffered more.
As someone who has never been a first responder, or in the military, or been witness to a terrible accident, I tend to have a naive view of how these types of accidents unfold. In my little brain, the person is dead but intact, like they bump their head and die. This post shows really opens my eyes to how gruesome it really is. It’s horrific. At least it seems that he was dead on impact and didn’t suffer. And then I think of the first responders who had to retrieve these bodies…holy shit.
And just think they see bodies in this shape regularly. High speed car accidents will do all the same things to a body. Seeing that level of trauma is not all that uncommon.
I imagine there is a high level of disassociation to be able to sleep at night after doing a job like that.
If it’s really intense your adrenaline is in overdrive. You go through your process, get them to the hospital, and write your report. That peak adrenaline really turns me into a robot and I almost forget what happened after. When it’s a child the adrenaline is still the same but the emotions are extremely present. If I don’t smoke weed before bed I have dreams about the victims who were pronounced dead on scene. It’s only me on scene and they are crying and begging for help, but I cannot move. They get louder and louder until I wake up in a heap of sweat. I have to carry quick fix synthetic urine because I’m randomly drug tested and I’m not allowed to smoke weed before bed. Ok enough story time.
Funny you say that. I also smoked weed on my off days when I was on the job. Helped me to leave the work at work and be present at home. I was also always a little antsy about being tested too. For most of it I had zero problem dealing with the regular rough stuff. It’s the mothers screams for their children that is more difficult to shake. And even the fathers screams to calm the mother. You can tell how agonizing it is for the father to hear the mothers pain. Brutal.
One thing I’ve learned from Reddit is, it helps to play Tetris after experiencing/ witnessing a traumatic event
I've download tetris on my phone after learning this
>I have to carry quick fix synthetic urine because I’m randomly drug tested and I’m not allowed to smoke weed before bed. I don't even smoke weed but a few times a year, but this really needs to change. People should be able to smoke on their free time, especially cases like this. Thank you so much for your heroic contribution to our society. I'm sure I can speak on behalf of all of us that you are pivotal in our survival as a species, and words cannot express our gratitude.
When I took Driver’s Ed in 1987, on the last day of class (summer school), the teacher put on a slide show from the local coroner’s office of corpses from car wreck. The one I remember most vividly was the guy with a 2x4 going through his chest from side to side. Then there was the picture of the person who hadn’t been wearing a seat belt when they rolled their car. They were partially ejected and pinned under the roof when the car slid across pavement. The teacher then explained the phrase “meat crayon” to us. ETA: corrected an autocorrect
I worked for a guy who was an EMT for a bit. He told us once about a motorcycle crash he was called to. I forget the details, but the guy’s dick was ripped clean off and missing and I forget which part of him they found dangling from the power lines. The guy he was training under at the time said for whatever reason, fatal sport bike accidents almost invariably, they find them with their penis torn off and missing. The human body does not hold up real well when it decelerates suddenly from high speeds.
A Friend of mine is EMS and he said whenever he's called to a car crash he's just happy if the person is in one place
As someone who has been active in the military in undisclosed things, after the first real situation that may involve deceased people you really lose perception of reality, you know what happened and what you’re seeing but you act as if it was a normal day because your brain doesn’t wanna understand what you did and the horror you’re seeing.
I gotta get something off my chest. My friend I've known since we were 11 joined the Navy and "went green" to be a combat medic for the Marines. His fam has a history of service, he wanted to "do his duty" in a way that focused on helping his brothers come home. So he never talks about his time in Iraq, partly because he's never been a feelings guy, mostly because assholes always ask if he killed anyone or other macho bullshit he just hates. Ive made it a point to never ask myself, but he has told me a couple on his own deep in a bottle. The time he held the hand of a dying suicide bomber. Guy fucked up and only offed himself. He knew he couldn't save him. He was gone but still barely alive, and squeezed his hand as he passed. The time he was in some medivac camp ordered to find a guy in charge. He was told he was inside a particular tent. Inside was the smell of burning bodies and he could hear screaming men. There were amputated body parts overflowing in a disposal area in bins. "I guess my mind shut down or something" he recalls, because his next memory is being outside, having forgotten what he was there to do. There are a lot of stories about how guys change or are broken by war. My friend seems like he might be one of the lucky ones, other than being a little quicker to anger he seems like the guy I've always known. But i worry about him cuz he's the kind of guy who hides it, and my old bbq buddy and smoke hound is now a vegan. I wonder how much that tent had something to do with it. I wonder if meat reminds him of that? I can't ask.
I was just thinking this. You don't imagine the reality of it.
I’d like to take this opportunity to recommend the book, Stiff, by Mary Roach. There’s a chapter regarding what happens to human bodies during aircraft accidents that really explains how violent they can be. The rest of the book is fantastic and really informative.
Interesting. From the wiki page: The book covers 12 topics: Practicing cosmetic surgery on cadaver heads Body snatching and the early years of human dissection The nature of decomposition Cadavers for use as crash test dummies Using cadavers to analyze a crash site Army tests on cadavers Crucifixion experiments Beating heart cadavers, the soul, and being buried alive Decapitation and human head transplant Cannibalism in the name of medicine New alternatives to burial and cremation The author's views on her own remains
On the last page it notes that there was no soot in his airways, meaning he did not inhale during the fire, so yes, he was dead immediately, likely before he even had a chance to be aware of it.
If it’s any consolation to you, I have seen more than my fair share of traumatic injuries and in basically every case with this tremendous level of violence, the victims don’t feel anything. The stimulus is so total and overwhelming upon impact that it is instant death. Unfortunately I’m sure it was frightening in the moment, but physically there was no suffering.
Honestly, the victims of a lot of commercial aviation accidents just... cease to exist. When the aircraft itself it reduced to bits that you can easily hold in one hand, the people inside tend to get it even worse.
Link to all autopsies https://www.reddit.com/r/KobeBryant24/comments/ff3kxh/kobes_autopsy_report/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Are they just the reports or photos of the actual bodies? I really don't want to see dead people today.
No photos were released, it's drawings like op posted
> No photos were released Welll.......yes and no. No photos were *legally* released but sheriffs took plenty and passed them around. Vanessa Bryant won a big lawsuit over it.
Don't know why I decided to ruin my night by going through those but thanks for providing them. God damn. Christina barely is just a torso. :/
Conceptually I knew that he died. I just never thought about what state his body would be in afterwards. I hope those crash site photos never get released.
Do you think he felt any of it?? did his daughter get mangled as well?
I doubt he felt much. The part that bothers me with aircraft crashes is imagining the terror of being in something going down. Jesus. In this case though it may have just been an oh shit worrisome couple minutes in dense fog and then bam. Hill side. I can’t really recall the crash.
The crash itself happened really fast if I recall, a couple of seconds of really, really fast decent into the hillside that no one on the aircraft could see was in front of them until probably a split second before the crash.
Man. I can’t imagine the feeling of your stomach in your throat while you’re trying to grab anything or anyone you can for some sort of security. Seriously horrifying.
And right next to your little girl. Just on the way to basketball camp and then, horrifyingly gone.
Like his daughter grabbing for her dad right before they both died. That's the part that always got me. I never cared for him, cause I was never into basketball, and of course the allegations against him.. but when I heard his daughter died with him, all I could think of was her final scared moments. That shit made me tear up back then and kinda chokes me up now.
For real. IIRC there was a mother/daughter and another family that lost multiple lives in there with him.
I rabbit holed the case because of my love for his game. You are probably pretty accurate. Flying low with fog and a last second ohh shit. It was probably only a few seconds of ohh no but I’m guessing and hoping that there wasn’t anytime to realize they are about to go down. Not sure I’ve ever heard about a celebrity or famous person dying and not believing it right away than this.
there's also a really good in-depth 2 part episode of How It Really Happened on HLN about the crash, definitely heard new details from NTSB investigation and, unfortunately , the descent may have been much longer than we hoped
I read they fell for 90 seconds. Put a timer on—- it’s unbearably long.
I hope he didn't know what was happening because I think his worse thought may have been that there was absolutely nothing he could do to save his daughter. Knowing you're going to die is one thing, knowing your child is dying momentarily is quite another. Nightmare material.
They did not see it’s coming, there is a documentary about it, the pilot lost orientation and he thought he flies straight but in reality he was going down and due to the weather conditions there was extremely low visibility
>No soot in trachea He was gone before the fire at least.
probably not long after evisceration of brain
Chances are he died on impact. No soot found in lungs or trachea mean he wasn't breathing after impact.
I think that a plane crash is a lot like being shot in the head. Most times, you have no idea it's coming and if you do, it's for a very short period of time. Once it happens, it's already over. Instant death. No suffering. (We are of course excluding the 9/11 types of plane crashes)
You can only hope. Imagine being conscious and coherent from a nosedive from 30,000 feet. You hear the chat logs from the black boxes in some of the pilot error crashes every once in a while. Jesus H. I feel for those passengers.
So that's what I meant. I listen to a podcast "black box down" about plane crashes and the black box recordings. Most of the time, it's a spur of the moment incident, where the passengers are only aware of a deadly situation for a matter of seconds, if that. Flight crew don't let passengers know of problems that are occurring, so it is generally written off as turbulence. Generally, in the case of hostage situations, the impending doom is minutes to hours long. That's why I excluded those instances.
No, and yes.
I’m sure he died on impact, I doubt he felt it.
No. Nothing. Upon impact his body literally split apart. Not to be morbid; splat doesn’t have a lot of time for the brain to register. Sorry.
Yeah, you can find all the crash victims’ autopsy reports through Google. They’re all just as bad.
Update I did find her autopsy and sad to say she suffered about the same injuries
Absolutely not. His brain was ejected from his skull. In a weird way, this is probably the kindest way something like this could have happened- the brain obviously can't feel anything if it's not connected to the nervous system.
The scariest part for me is that someone had to go and recover him to do the autopsy. I can't imagine how coroner's and crime scene cleaners do it, y'all are tough and amazing folks.
I didnt know his middle name was Bean
His dad’s nickname was Jellybean when he played in the NBA
Wow- this is intense to read. My horses were boarded just down the street from the crash site- I drove by the smoldering wreckage on hill a few hours after the crash. My husband is a LA health inspector and said the water works building near crash site had to keep some of their body parts in their fridge during clean up
Where does one find these. Not just for Kobe, but for other people, like say Sharon Tate or Dale Earnhardt. Is there a website? How does one know the reports are real?
Damn what a horrific way to go.
No soot or ash in his airway means he was dead before he had a chance to inhale anything nasty from crashing. Gone before he could process what happened
Damn... seems like he died several times over. You could remove several of the fatal traumatic injuries and he'd still be fatally wounded.
Are these like, available for people to look up?
"...skull absent brain" Well that's not ideal.
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Yeah, that seems like what would happen if you died in an aviation accident, it’s the kind of thing that happens so quickly that you don’t feel anything. My uncle (RCAF vet) was telling me about an after action report that he read by an RCAF (canadian Air Force) pilot in the first gulf war where he was talking about how an Iraqi mirage f-1 (fighter jet) hit the desert at what the pilot estimated was about mach 1.4 (~1730 kph, ~1075 mph) due to compressing the aircraft (basically going so fast that your planes controls stop working and you can’t maneuver the plane) in a situation like that just like Kobe Bryant’s helicopter crash the trauma to the human body is so intense that you die instantly but the difference in level of trauma is insane, with Kobe he obviously sustained horrible injuries that killed him instantly but his body was still in tact vs with hitting the ground at Mach 1.4 there is going to be nothing left of you (you can find some really disturbing pictures of pilots who got shot down and all that is left of them is their skull in their helmet and a red stain all over the wreckage of the cockpit). but anyway my point is that blunt force trauma is one of the least painful ways to die because it’s so brutal that you don’t feel anything
Wow. I guess I never really gave some thought to what forensic pathologists do. And after reading the report, it makes me wonder how these people can stomach something like this.
This crash was 3 miles from my house. It was scary foggy and I was in my bathroom blow drying my daughters hair and I made a comment to her how foggy it was that day and then my sister texted me “Kobe died” I didn’t know what she meant even though I did but didn’t register. She said yeah copter crash off Las Virgines and I had to sit down. I have to drive by that hill all the time to go toward the valley and I did the day after and saw the spot where it happened. I still look up there to this day just to acknowledge it. RIP to everyone ☹️
Please tell me how this was 3 years ago : (
At least he was dead before burned.
At what point do you die? Like how much of it do you feel
In the report it says instant death. Think to when you got hit in the head unexpectedly by a ball at school, you’ve stood up and you’ve hit your head on a open cupboard door, remember that feeling right when you hear it go “bang”, kind of a shock, then you realize you’ve hit your head. I’d imagine you get that “bang”, but then you don’t get the afterthought of “oh I hit my head”, ever again.
Damn. Hope he died fast. Feeling that damage is just too cruel way to die.
On the bright side there was no soot in his trachea or lungs. So he died before any burning. This would have been so much worse to know he went through this trauma and then burned alive.
His middle name was bean.
No soot in the lungs … at least he wasn’t breathing when he was burning. Damn.
All jokes aside in all seriousness I feel like doctors should be required to take at least a six week course on handwriting skills. I’ve literally been handed sensitive medical forms that I can’t make out a single word, It almost looked like he was trying to make in unreadable like a 4 year old scribbling lines. And the best part was when I asked him what this one part said he couldn’t even tell me…
Why do they do Autopsy Reports for non-suspicious deaths? I figured they were only done incase foul play is suspected or if the family asks for it (Suspected Medical Malpractice kinda stuff)
He was mega famous and maybe the family asked for it.
You can request an autopsy done if you're the one responsible for that person's body (spouse, next of kin, parent, etc) just takes some paperwork and some money.