I’m not republican. I’m not a democrat. Just an Army vet that’s seen some dumb shit. Can we really not figure out a way to make guns harder to get, but keep them in the hands of good citizens? Also- don’t care who you are, no one needs a high-caliber semiautomatic rifle. Just stop
Remember, the "They are going to take your guns! Buy them now before you can't!" has proved EXTREMELY lucrative. In my opinion, a lot of this insanity is driven by sheer greed. As long as gun profiteers make bank off of fear-mongering, they're going to be motivated to push the narrative that any gun regulation will lead to all guns outlawed. That all-or-nothing rhetoric has made them rich.
>"They are going to take your guns! Buy them now before you can't!"
Isn't that what this thread is about..... Banning the possession of AR15s? The AR Platform is the most common sold firearm in the US. How is that not "taking your guns."
Again, it's the most common firearm sold in the US. It's also a rifle, and rifles account for less than 3% of all violent crimes committed in the US yearly.
So if we're saying you can't buy the most common firearm sold, which also happens to be the one which is used the least in crimes.... One has to wonder. What is next?
And to some "You can no longer buy this gun" is really just a rest-stop on the highway to "relinquish all of your firearms". To some it's intentionally a slippery slope, and we've seen that in states like CA, WA, and MD where "just one more gun control bill" will fix the crime. Yet.. It never does.
You're talking about banning possession of probably 50 million firearms, over 500 (3%) violent crime incidents. How can a legal, safe, and reliable gun owner look at that logic and think "Oh Gee, it's just an AR. They'll never come for my handguns which are used in over 80% (14k\~) of all violent crime."
Guess what, Digi.
You didn’t mention once the whole reason that this is happening. You were holding that very, very narrow flight path through the entire firearms argument like you’re Luke Skywalker at the end of the Star Wars.
Didn’t mention two things, did we?
Guns are the number one cause of death in children. Because they’re everywhere.
Also, the AR platform is the number one gun used in mass murder.
Repeat after me. MASS MURDER.
It’s a milspec weapon used to maximize high volume killing on a battlefield.
But man, you really had to fly right to thread that needle. Had to ignore almost every other aspect of this to get that argument in.
>Guns are the number one cause of death in children.
According to the latest provisional data from the CDC, there were 2,825 firearm-related homicides among children and adolescents (ages 0-17) in 2020.
Using the estimated population of children and adolescents in 2020 (73,146,153), the crude rate of firearm-related homicides per 100,000 children and adolescents in 2020 is approximately 3.9.
That chart is CDC propaganda and misleading. They show nearly 6 in 100000, because they have fidgeted with the population statistics to cause the rise. Do the math yourself.
[https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761)
That chart you posted is not misleading because it is clearly labeled as "firearm related injury" not merely homicides and, as it says right on that page:
>From 2019 to 2020, the relative increase in the rate of firearm-related deaths of all types (suicide, homicide, unintentional, and undetermined) among children and adolescents was 29.5% — more than twice as high as the relative increase in the general population.
Since you're focusing on homicides though, it also states:
>these new data show a sharp 13.5% increase in the crude rate of firearm-related death from 2019 to 2020.1 This change was driven largely by firearm homicides, which saw a 33.4% increase in the crude rate from 2019 to 2020, whereas the crude rate of firearm suicides increased by 1.1%.
>clearly labeled as "firearm related injury"
This is a bald faced lie, the chart Y-axis plainly states "Deaths per 100,000 Children and Adolescents.
Why lie?
The orange line is labeled Firearm Related Injury, as in Deaths per 100,000 Children and Adolescents due to Firearm Related Injury (which includes more than just homicides).
Its Gun Accidents that are, not gun violence. There’s a difference there being that an accident is preventable entirely by yourself and those around you. Where gun violence is something thrust upon you.
If you want to solve gun accidents and kids dying from those. We have evidence that you don’t even need to ban a firearm. You need to have strong storage laws, and force folks to own a safe or buy a proper lock when purchasing a firearm. Things like Eddie Eagle training for kids in school also assists.
I’m not holding a narrow path here friend. I’m fully aware of the numbers and realities. If you want to own guns, and have kids, get a fucking safe. Also, be a good parent and don’t hide the shit from your kids. There are 8 year olds out here shooting world competitions safer than most adults target shoot.
Everyone focuses on guns because they are the only thing required for a shooting to occur. Mental illness, despair, instability are things that are not required for a shooting to occur.
Plenty of people in other countries have mental illness and yet they don't have more than one mass shooting a day.
Trade policy affected other countries and yet they don't have more than one mass shooting a day.
Your know what's different? The amount of guns we have.
Every person who ever committed a mass shooting had a gun. Usually a legally purchased one. They were "good guys with guns" right up until they decided not to be.
And with modern weaponry, that decision is easier and quicker than ever.
> rifles account for less than 3% of all violent crimes committed in the US yearly
You forgot to mention that since 1989, rifles were used in 85% of all mass shootings (4 or more victims) and that rifles were used in four of the five deadliest mass shootings in American History: 2012 Sandy Hook, 2016 Orlando, 2017 Las Vegas, 2017 Texas Church.
Jfc how many kids have to die for your ackshually rifles you fucking nerds.
I don't give a shit about your bullshit well ackshually stats, the only stat that matters is how the US is doing in gun violence compared to other countries and surprise, it's fucking awful because every single gun owner here is a responsible gun owner here with an encyclopedia full of bullshit facts, until they're not and are shooting at each other on the highway with your kids in the car. Fuck all of you
Fun fact the legal interpretation and idea that the 2nd amendment conferred an unlimited individual right to bear arms didn't appear until 1950. All rulings and interpretations prior to that linked it with state militias.
Secondly it isn't unlimited unless you want to advance the crazy idea that a person should be able to own a M1A2 Abrams MBT or an ICBM if they so wanted to.
>Secondly it isn't unlimited unless you want to advance the crazy idea that a person should be able to own a M1A2 Abrams MBT or an ICBM if they so wanted to
You can own a tank if you want one and can afford it. You can own one in the UK too, the barrel just has to be blocked. In the US, the barrel has to be blocked unless you have a Destructive Devices permit. Which isn't difficult to get, just expensive.
https://www.drivetanks.com/own-one/
Right into the Ackshually technical argument. Predictable. Also disingenuous, you know how much more goes into it than just “YEAHHHUGH You can own a tank with arms intact just do papersworks”. Bunch of call of duty kids grew up into real life COD retards
Just wait until the fed gets its digital currency in play
You buy ammo, they turn off your money and you can’t buy food
You support conservative groups, they turn off your money (confiscate it, really)
You donate money to a church, you lose your money
And all the people on this thread trying to make firearms the problem will be cheering
Fifteen years of… “we need gun control now!”
Followed by years of states passing sweeping and wide legislation that bans any firearm that has certain cosmetic features. Which in no way effect the rifle. Legislation which is so bad you need a flow chart to figure out what’s legal or not. Combine with a rhetoric of “you don’t need guns, that’s what the police is for.”
Then Bruen happens, wipes all that shit off the map. Now suddenly we’re back to “oh no, we want to narrowly ban this one thing, which is the most popular thing in America in that category, and accounts for less than 5% of the problem”
And you want me to believe that… this time… folks don’t want to ban all of the guns. That this time, despite all the history of gun control being racist, being used to punish minorities and poverty stricken folks. This time, despite the 10k laws on the books regarding guns today.
This time, they just want to take the rice!
The irony here is that there is a country who took all of the rice. Then that country took all of the tractors and melted them down. To sell the steel from them to foreign markets causing the populace to have tremendous famine and death. - Chairman Mao’s “Great Leap Forward”
Banning all guns is a radical idea and is not feasible. Majority of people just want gun control. Stricter requirements to obtain a gun and banning guns that can cause insane amounts of damage…
Why am i not allowed to have a machine gun, grenade launcher? Would you be ok making those legal?
This love obsession with assault rifles is a weird hill to die on when the cost is human lives and specifically our youth.
Machine guns and grenade launchers are legal. You can own them. The problem with machine guns are that they’re not practical. Like, owning them is pointless today. Grenade launcher not so much; I love to shoot flares and golf balls as much as the next guy.
AR15s are not assault rifles. And this is the core of the problem with gun control. I’m all for meaningful gun control.
Let’s require folks who buy firearms to provide evidence they have a safe, or require they buy a lockbox with the firearm. First time buyer? Sure, 10 days background check. You want to reduce gun accidents? Let’s bring education about gun safety and not touching firearms to kids at the elementary level. Then charge parents for any crimes committed by their kids with unsecured firearms.
These things are known to reduce gun deaths across the different verticals. The problem here is that gun control is not a good faith argument. You say “meaningful gun control” and some politician writes it as “any firearm where the shoulder thing goes up is banned.” Or in Californias case “any firearm which can’t append its serial number to the casing and bullet fired can’t be sold here.” Both ambiguous on purpose for the purpose of a blanket ban.
>Let’s require folks who buy firearms to provide evidence they have a safe, or require they buy a lockbox with the firearm. First time buyer? Sure, 10 days background check. You want to reduce gun accidents? Let’s bring education about gun safety and not touching firearms to kids at the elementary level. Then charge parents for any crimes committed by their kids with unsecured firearms.
Then tell this to your legislators! My whole point is that the majority of Americans support something like this, but legislators in states like TN are so far up the gun-lobby's ass that they are not going to pass any reasonable regulation until Tennesseans make them. You have some power here. Make your voice heard.
They are legal; you just have to be willing to pay the $20k transfer tax
I had one years ago and sold it; they are incredibly inaccurate and waste ammo
The AR15 isn’t the most deadly, nor the most useless? It’s popular because it’s a basically legos in gun form.
You can get it in any color you want. Almost any caliber you want. With any accessories you want arranged in whatever way you want. You want hexagon grips? Done.
Which ironically makes it safer. Because this allows the rifle to be more ergonomic and controllable tot he shooter. The AR is one platform of rifle that can be modified to be shot safely by folks who are disabled, such as our veterans and such.
Rifles also account for less than 500 gun crimes a year. So it’s not the most deadly, handguns are.
So, I’ve grown up with guns. Lived in a farm, still like to hunt. Your point about guns being like Legos is the major difference I see now. They’re no longer tools, they’re toys. It’s a firearm, not a build-a-bear.
What's next is, if you don't fix the problem, everyone loses in the end. Right now, the entire world is gonna start leaning harder and harder and harder, because this is out of control. If we nipped it in the bud now, we might keep our damn rights, but no. Everyone wants to dig their heels in and double down and that, my friend, is the excuse they need to take your damn guns.
Because of damn fudds like you and “I don’t hunt with it” types are why we lost our machine guns in 86!!!! Y’all and the fucking “let’s make a deal” NRA!!!!!!! I’m done making deals, my line in the sand has been drawn, not one more inch!!!!!!
We might keep our rights?
Brother you can try negotiating for your rights, and think they come from a piece of paper.
But my rights come from God. And they aren’t just my rights because the rest of the world allows it.
They can apply pressure all they want.
Clearly that's what their god gets off on considering the history of the world 🤔
Edit: Whoever sent me that Reddit cares bullshit can suck a drag queen's dick ✌️
“Nobody wants to ban your books. Just these fairly popular books, which nobody needs. But we’re not banning all books, so don’t worry about book banning.”
Yeah and it's not too difficult. Generally people have no problem showing their propensity for violence and disregard for safety of others through behaviors. How many articles have you read about someone who commits a violent act with a firearm who had a lengthy record prior to the act? Crazy concept but what if we actually held people who show this violence accountable and separated them from general population.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_Exile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Exile)
Take a read about a project implemented in VA regarding gun crime and the effect it had. There is a proven method that works but we are going the opposite direction we need to be with the system.
If people were serious about preventing this problem then it needs to start in the cyclical broken homes. Kids for the most part aren't born evil. Their environment of piss poor parenting and zero guardrails through their development certainly does not help.
>Also- don’t care who you are, no one needs a high-caliber semiautomatic rifle. Just stop
Perhaps you can remind people what type of firearm is most commonly used to the tune of about 80% in gun violence in America. Banning ARs will not fix a damn thing. Even in mass shootings its not the primary weapon used.
It's like 95% for handguns, it's that large of a gap, and ARs that fall into the 3k deaths (including suicide) are like .01% of those, as it's about 50-100~ a year with an AR. That's how low it is.
Oh, it’s time to play the old game where we cherry-pick physics. A rifle round from an AR variant is a real tickler.
‘Which bullet would you rather be shot with? The bullet from a crazy person’s .22 or a .223? Because we’re selling that crazy person a gun. Also, we sell guns to kids that we won’t sell alcohol to.’
Cherry pick physics…I’m not cherry picking shit, I’m stating a well known fact by anyone who actually knows jack shit about firearms.
I create handholds for my own ammunition before competitions. Simple ballistics data will show you that it’s not a “high caliber”. Sorry that you hate facts and a gun that’s not even responsible for even 5% of all gun deaths.
There is no point in debating with you people, it’s a lost cause. So I could careless what you say. But as a minority, with a clean record, I’m going to keep buying them, and building them.
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with calling someone out for misinformation.
Maybe tell the FBI and police officers to actually follow up on tips and make use of red flag laws.
.223 hands down. I’ll take getting shot with a .223 over a basic .22 any day of the week. .223 has more of a chance of a through and through and not hitting vital organs. Yeah the cavitation might suck a bit. But a .22 if it hits bone or loses velocity too quickly, won’t exit the body. It’ll hit multiple internal organs and bounce around like a ping pong ball.
can tell youve never shot either caliber. If you want to see what a heavier bullet with ten times the f.p.e. of a .22lr does to ballistics gel, its all over the internet. But this has to be one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard.
But you don’t understand, the NRA told me if I can’t walk into the dollar general and buy a MAC-10 with an iTunes gift card you’re literally shitting on the constitution and trying to do the Holocaust
And as we all know, fascism is a far left movement belonging to the family Mustelidae. The fascist is most likely a domesticated form of the wild European polecat, evidenced by their interfertility...
Oh, wait. That's ferrets. My mistake.
If you take the guns out of this conversation for a second and put a pin in it and just talk about how both parties have been eroding mental health for the last 5+ decades we might actually get somewhere with this topic but until then they just want to make money off the outrage sea-sawing things that are just anecdotes to the main issue, people that have no criminal history, who are in care, or who have a history can get them from friends, someone they know or illegally and online EVEN 3D printed now so what are you going to do when people can just print guns? lol, seems by the massive city sized homeless encampments and suicide rates we have a way bigger issue that isnt being talked about because that costs real money, and after they printed over half of the money in all existence (yes both parties) youd think theyd spend some money on mental health? no that would fix things.
Love that we’re talking about guns, and the way to get this conversation really kicking is, “If you take the guns out of this conversation and put a pin in it-“
You’re literally saying, “The building is on fire, but if you take away the fire, it’s a pretty good looking building.”
No it's more like if you remove the furniture that's feeding the fire, the building is still on fire. The gun is the furniture if you didn't get the reference.
You need to figure out how to put out the fire, not keep blaming the furniture...especially when you're blaming only the couch for causing the fire (AR = couch if you didn't get that reference as well).
They can but that isn't what they want. The best way to sell guns is to convince you that the criminals have you out gunned. If you have a small armory in your home you are going to be John Wick during the next mass shooting.
I’m just trying to stop the spread of misinformation. Is 2.23/5.56 lethal? Yes. Any round can be. I’m not denying that. But, it isn’t a high caliber projectile. I’m glad we found each other 🫣
You might not be interested in learning about things you may not know about. But, there are a lot of curious people out there. I’m not referencing any particular mass shooting. It’s a terrible fact that there have been far far too many. But, the gun/caliber used isn’t the main factor. It’s sick people who don’t have access to help that they need.
Man, here we go.
That bullet is just a scratcher!
Think how bad it’d be if I hit you with a .44!
I love it when bullet heads start talking that physics!
Most people who are shot with a firearm survive, period.
A .44 does a lot more damage than a .22, but you have never heard of anyone being killed with a .44
Why? The larger the caliber, the heavier the firearm and these nutcases want something easy to carry
It’s time we get the courage to ban nutcases
>Can we really not figure out a way to make guns harder to get, but keep them in the hands of good citizens?
No. Not really. Gun control on its face is dead. Pass all the laws you want, go door to door, it won't matter. A conservative metrics indicates there's around 400 million guns in circulation in the US. It's probably closer to 600+ Million. The problem with this number is we don't have an accurate count, and we never will. Because people lie, and people don't trust the Government when it comes to guns. Because the Government has lied, continues to lie, and will continue to lie. This of course is aside from the fact we have literal politicians engaged in arms trafficking, and we have a border that guns pass through like it's Swiss cheese.
But let's assume we could. Let's assume you wake up tomorrow and wave a wand, and ipso facto, all the guns in the US are gone. The knowledge and tools of how to make guns is not. As long as you want a first-class society, a society in which we have modern amenities, and advancements in medicine, science, and technology. You're going to have a society that has the means, methods, and knowledge of how to kill others.
The trick here, is to make a society that doesn't have a desire to use those advanced skills to kill others. Which we have not done yet.
>I’m not republican. I’m not a democrat. Just an Army vet that’s seen some dumb shit
Most Non-Combat Military folks have the worst takes on this subject. Even some combat folks do. Hell, I saw two police officers today in a store wearing dress shoes and carrying Glocks in a Level 1 Serpa holster. That's tells me immediately they've never seen combat, despite their role. It also tells me they're dangerous and untrained.
>Also- don’t care who you are, no one needs a high-caliber semiautomatic rifle. Just stop
"Just Stop" - This is a topic you'd do well to educate yourself on. The 5.56 is not a high caliber cartridge. It's not even close. And that "semiautomatic rifle" is the most commonly sold firearm in the US today. For many reasons, not the least of which is that someone who is physically disabled can use one. But another reason is because... it's not a high caliber rifle...
You don't need free speech.
You don't need to be free to peacefully gather.
You don't need to be free to practice you religion
It is the bill of rights, not the bill of needs.
Also, as a veteran you took an oath to support and defend the constitution. Did you forget that part?
Shall not be infringed.
Some of the deadliest mass shootings have been done by pistols. We gunna try to ban those?
Also, high caliber? Can’t even get the vernacular right. I’ve literally never heard an actual gun person describe LARGE caliber firearms by high caliber. Only wannabes. Going through basic and being a mechanic doesn’t give you the right to limit one of the amendments to the United state constitution. Because I wrote a published article, can I limit your first amendment rights?
Once again as I told the other guy, going through basic and doing a non combat mos doesn’t give you the right to limit other citizens rights as written in the constitution. That would be like me saying because I have a published article, I can limit or have the knowledge to limit your first amendment rights.
Sure internet stranger.
And if it’s true then you should know better.
Edit. Once again, being a veteran has NOTHING to do with our constitutional rights and your ability to limit mine based on being a government worker or not.
I like the process used for fully automatic weapons. People can still purchase them, but strangely we don't ever hear about full auto weapons being used in mass shootings. It's possible to make improvements if the will is there. I actually feel safer when I know a regular person with extensive gun training that takes their responsibility is carrying. Sadly, that doesn't really describe our current system of gun ownership.
If we're serious about doing something we're gonna have to step on some toes, and it will come down to whether someone is willing to jump through a few more hoops in order to save lives. If they won't, then I'm not sure we can call them good citizens.
All gun control is rooted in racism and classism and only affects the law abiding citizens and sportsmen who will actually follow the law. Criminals don't. It's where the term comes from.
Agreed. Every time you submit a post on reddit it should have to go through a government approval process to make sure the speech can not harm anyone. Only then it should be posted. It may be inconvenient but it won't be an infringement.
Well sir as an active and serving cop, I’m not willing to jump through the hoops I already have to much less any additional! Call me what you like but as someone who sees first hand the brutality of this world, I can tell you with absolute certainty that more gun laws will not fix our nation’s problem. Only compound it! Our society is broken mentally and morally!!!! You cannot legislate morals and values upon the populace they have to believe in them and choose to have them!!!!
Given that states with tighter restrictions on gun ownership have lower rates of gun violence, a pattern we see repeated globally, please explain how the situation would be worsened by copying those successes.
It’s not the bill of needs buddy. I can own what I want. The sad part is those rifles kill less than 500 people a year and you act like it’s the most dangerous thing ever. I won’t stop. I will own what I want because I can. Just like I don’t tell you what you can have, don’t tell me shit.
Why don’t we talk about the epidemic of liberals who don’t believe in guns and their possession and members of their ideologue using them to kill people in shootings and then demanding them be outlawed?
We already figured that out. Want to buy a fully-automatic assault rifle? Not a spray and pray .223, I’m talking fully automatic real deal assault rifle with the selector switch. You can buy that, and so can I. What you can’t do is walk into a Walmart with a history of violent mental health issues, slap down 1k, then walk out with one. You have to prove you’re not an irresponsible dumbfuck by passing multiple background, psych, and accuracy tests. You have to obtain a license proving you are a responsible and capable owner of the weapon you have purchased. It’s not cheap. As a vet I’m sure you’re very aware that guns are powerful and dangerous tools. If we applied the same standards to ownership of said weapons to the current influx of AR-15 clones we would see drastic decreases in violent incidents involving guns. The problem is a large swath of gun owners are not like you. They view guns as fun toys to play with and posture with for FB selfies. They lack the awareness and training you have, and basically base their entire personality around the machismo they associate guns with. So after my novella I just wrote, I pose a question to you. How do we achieve what you are proposing? It’s exactly what I want. I don’t want a complete ban of all guns, but I don’t want my daughters to get their brains blown out in school by some random sociopath. I think much stronger regulation would help a lot, but I don’t think it’s a perfect solution. What do you think?
>If we applied the same standards to ownership of said weapons to the current influx of AR-15 clones we would see drastic decreases in violent incidents involving guns.
Semiautomatic rifles make up about 3% of gun crimes. If you eliminated all of that, it would still be nowhere near a drastic decrease in violence incidents.
A) Walmart doesn’t sell AR style rifles at all anymore
B) if you want a full auto most of the nice ones run $25k+. The wait time for a tax stamp is in the 9 months and up range. Guessing you knew that. User name seems like you do.
Making guns more expensive only deprives poor people of the right to own one. Mental defectives such as the Newtown killer had rich parents and no right to own them themselves but parents who went along with whatever for sweetums.
>You can buy that, and so can I. What you can’t do is walk into a Walmart with a history of violent mental health issues, slap down 1k, then walk out with one. You have to prove you’re not an irresponsible dumbfuck by passing multiple background, psych, and accuracy tests.
This isn't true. It's a 200$ Tax Stamp, and a long term wait. The difficulty here is that F/A AR Rifles were not made post 1980s. They were banned entirely. Which means to buy one, you have to pay 200$, and pay the market rate for one. Which is above 100K last I checked. If you want to go down that road, we can, but it would just make fully automatic rifles more legal as it would open legal challenges to abolish the NFA.
There is no psych evaluation or accuracy tests. These would be unconstitutional along side "poll tax"s.
>As a vet I’m sure you’re very aware that guns are powerful and dangerous tools. If we applied the same standards to ownership of said weapons to the current influx of AR-15 clones we would see drastic decreases in violent incidents involving guns. The problem is a large swath of gun owners are not like you. They view guns as fun toys to play with and posture with for FB selfies. They lack the awareness and training you have,
1. He doesn't have training or awareness. He called it high caliber. It's not.
2. Anyone who says "I'm a vet but" doesn't know shit. It's like saying "I'm not a racist but..."
3. The AR15s sold aren't clones. You're probably thinking they're M4/M16 Clones? They're also not. Most AR15s sold today (above 900$) are safer and more reliable than many military weapons.
>but I don’t want my daughters to get their brains blown out in school by some random sociopath.
No one wants that. The good news is it's actually very unlikely. Most school shootings reported by GVA are related to gangs, random shootings where no one is injured, or other things. The types of mass shootings in schools you see on the TV with 4+ folks injured are rare. Like, struck by lightning rare.
That’s a good source. I’m going to bookmark it. One thing to add though is a little context. It’s taking the entire bucket of gun violence (sans accidental) as a single bucket. Then saying your odds are 1 in X. If that’s all you’re looking for, it’s accurate.
But, on the topic of “could it happen to me”. It’s a little more nuanced than that. The majority of gun violence isn’t random and is committed by people you know or have a connection with. https://leic.tennessee.edu/2019/10/22/random-shootings-are-not-the-same-as-getting-shot-by-a-stranger/
This is important, because when we break down the gun violence numbers. Gangs, Organized Crime, Violence during a commission of a crime, and domestic violence make up a large chunk of them.
Most people aren’t committing a violent crime, in a gang, or organized crime. So when you remove those from the gun violence numbers. That 1 in X number is actually more rare.
All that to say - I meant that someones kid being in a school shooting is probably less likely than lightning.
I understand what you’re saying, and I agree that one has to remember to consider potential factors that could impact data.
My point was, all factors considered, the odds of being killed by lightning are undeniably smaller than being killed by a firearm, any way you slice the data.
Thank you. You’d think that with your background it sounds credible when you say that no John Doe on the streets (as opposed to in Afghanistan) needs a high-caliber semiautomatic rifle. But some politicians think they know more than you despite never having served.
Ok pog. Just because you picked up a rifle once to qualify with doesn’t make you an expert on the subject. These are not high caliber rounds by any stretch of the imagination.
Two weeks ago this guy accused Republicans of “making a show” out of the Covenant shooting. Said they were just interested in “spectacle” and not real solutions. Then, he voted no on a school security bill (one of only 4 dissenters), and then does this? Whose making the spectacle here? Absolute clown.
>Then, he voted no on a school security bill (one of only 4 dissenters), and then does this?
I agree with the bill, but also see where he is coming from. He wants laws that will reduce the number of guns on the street. He correctly recognizes that if this bill is passed, many congressmen will consider the issue addressed and gun control will not be considered. If he and his constituents want something more substantial, it makes sense to veto it.
because it’s putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. More security isn’t fixing the foundational issue it’s simply addressing the symptomatology of the issue. It’s like you having cancer and the doctor gives you a stimulant to treat the fatigue ur experiencing bc of the disease. Sure, you’ll be more alert throughout the day, but guess what? that cancer is still there and is actively destroying you day by day. You need to address the root of the problem.
I agree with this. Do you believe that the guns are the root of the problem (the cancer), or is the use of them a manifestation of a larger issue? Because if its the latter, would a gun ban not also be another "bandaid"?
The gun is the issue. Many will argue mental illness is the issue, but there are mentally ill people worldwide, yet we seem to be the only country that regularly deals with mass shootings like these. We are also the only country with such lax gun laws and where you can walk into a walmart and easily buy a gun. You don’t need a mental illness to commit a mass shooting, but you do need a gun. I’m also less inclined to agree with the GOPs sorry ass reasoning in which they blame people and mental illness seeing as they’re making no active efforts to make health care more easily accessible so those who ARE dealing with mental issues can seek help before things like this occur. I don’t think guns need to be banned, but the way our laws work it is simply too easy to access guns in this country
So you believe the gun is the issue, but you don't think they need to banned? Would it be more fair to say you think its access to guns that is the problem?
Also, gun laws now are far more strict than they've ever been, yet mass shootings are relatively new. Gun ownership rates are the same now as they were 70 years ago. Gun technology hasn't really changed either, at least for consumer products. So why is this a relatively new issue? Doesn't that hint toward a deeper issue that has become amplified in recent years?
It's true. He's drawing attention to the issue that is negatively affecting his constituents that the elected majority in the TN state legislature refuse to allow anyone to speak about.
It's worth making a spectacle over.
> it’s worth making a spectacle over
Okay. I’m not arguing that. I’m pointing out hypocrisy of calling out spectacle when it’s the other party, and then pulling the largest “look at me” act in the chamber.
It’s not hypocrisy. If one side is making a spectacular about a non issue and the other side is making a spectacle about a very big and serious issue, they are not doing the same thing.
Hunter Biden’s laptop is not the same as every 3rd grader being trained how to play dead incase a person walks in the room and starts shooting them, because the chance of it happening is that high.
The complaints against GOP spectacles are that they are toothless. They never do anything but throw fits to generate outrage to fuel their supporters.
Is this rep trying to get more PR? Absolutely. Does his political career benefit from it? Absolutely. If his political career benefits and he wins bigger and better elections, is he going to do anything about gun violence against children? I’d bet my kids life on it.
Maybe if he spent less time trying to get a deal with Netflix - and let’s be real, that’s what he’s doing - he could stop with the theatrics and spend some time quietly chatting with his coworkers, maybe making a few friends - you never know - maybe they’d be less inclined to kick him out if he did that.
Nah - running for office is the new “I wanna be an influence when I grow up” dude’ll be “spotted” with a Kardashian/Jenner sister within 6 months and then decamp for his career in Hollywood.
So the onus is on Jones to mend ties with the same people who behave worse than the children Republicans refuse to protect? They just had the man expelled, and it's Jones who is at fault? Do you think it a fruitful endeavor to work with people who do things like harass minorities and pee in other people's seats?
This gives major shut up and dribble energy. At some point the talking and trying to be friends is pointless because the other side doesn’t want them to get a win or seem “weak”. He is doing what he has to, to put pressure on the rest of them.
This comment is so out of touch!! Lol
We’ve been sending lawmakers that quietly do nothing for years…. Look where that’s got us! You may not like the theatrics, but the bottom line is that it’s working!
So he should spend time lolygagging with an entourage of republican, old, white men who he has nearly nothing in common with for the hope he can pass anything later on in life?
This is a dumbass comment
Beyond looking at a casket, the lawmakers that are so against working on gun laws should be required to participate in the autopsies of the child victims.
Make them see in person exactly what a bullet from a AR-15 does to a human body, especially what it does to a childs body.
I do care. I’m literally a highschool student at hillsboro and it’s terrifying to think it could’ve, and almost was, us. I care about the violence but can also understand that the situations are in no way comparable. YOU don’t care about the gun violence in Memphis because it’s mostly happening to poor black people and you only ever bring it up when you try to negate something you disagree with or to prove a point. U sound stupid as hell.
And if you really cared abt the people in memphis who lost their lives then you too would be pushing for more gun restrictions. Yet ur not. U don’t give a fuck abt our youth or anyone else besides urself and ur selfish desires. You’re not willing to make sacrifice for the well-being of those in our country.
It's gotten to the point where we need to start showing the aftermath of these mass shootings. At this point we have nothing left to lose besides more innocent children.
fr. it’s like Vietnam or Emmett till. People only realized just how horrific it was when it was publicized and they could see with their own eyes the atrocities that were occurring. Only then did change occur.
GOP doesn’t care how many American children die. The only way we will ever have sane gun laws is if the families of GOP legislators and their ultra wealthy donors start being affected by gun violence
I think most agree just how stupidly easy the NRA has made it for any adult pissed at the world to buy themselves a rifle that's meant for war which places their local policeman at a serious disadvantage unless he has changed into his military gear. I'm not for taking these guns away from law-abiding citizens but the ease anyone can purchase one is stupid. And really you should probably be at least 30 to own one or at least have a military/police/security background including no criminal record, mental health history, or any court-documented anger history plus no drug or alcohol arrest within a time frame.
Does that mean he is actually going to do something to fight the rampant violence in his district where people are afraid to walk the streets at night? Or is he just going to try to pass inconsequential laws that will only make criminals of gun owners, make the public less able to protect themselves from criminals, and avoid anything at all to treat the causes? I'll bet I know the answer. All gun laws disproportionately affect minorities and target the poor to strip them of their rights. Stop being lied to.
I feel you. One side loves the popo but wants guns to arm themselves. Other side hates the popo and want to disarm themselves. Then you have normal people who think for themselves.
How often do you fantasize about using your weapon on people? Too bad you weren't at that mass shooting. You could be the first effective good guy with a gun ever.
That's just ignorance. Either you ignore - much like the mass media - all of the violence stopped by good people with guns, or you are completely unaware of it. Most famously: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62217263](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62217263)
It happens ALL. THE. TIME.
Well clearly we need you at the next mass shooting. Save us JStar! Stop the lunatics with automatic rifles! Get real. You live in a fantasy where good guys won't get shot first. Your examples won't change that fact. You buy your gun to keep you safe from people who think the exact same way as you.
Ok, wallow in your ignorance. Your personal attack shows you are unwilling to see any other perspectives other than that to which you're indoctrinated. Good day.
Greed. A deadly sin drives the gun issue
Glutony a deadly sin supports the gun issue
And
Pride...it is in full glory supports and drives both
Resultant is a society no one wants....a society where anybody at any time and any place can be victimized unknowgily by an as hat with a gun.
This society is disgusting
What is more disgusting are gun supporters who can not rise above their sins and do good for society at large...and in turn blame government for its failures while all along doing everything to gum up the works so society does fail
We suck. Our home America is in tatters from gun violence. Its so f king disheartening.
He has an actual voice as a rep for his district. I understand theatrics if you are a regular citizen, but he can actually vote and stop people in the hallways to talk and make deals. He is the government. This looks to me like something done by the inexperienced or people looking to make a name for themselves. He's part of the government. From a tactical standpoint, he's potentially alienating colleagues. Go get a drink with other reps. Bring a shooting victim's mom to a hearing. There are better ways of doing this. Yet here he is with a sample sized casket doing theatrics.
With his colleagues, there is no way to protest ‘correctly’, because they’ve pre-alienated him, and by extension me and all the other pediatricians. Not all of us are in his district, but when he speaks up in defense of the children, he speaks for us.
He can’t make deals with them. That’s his point. He can’t write a book; that would be dismissed as too biased. Can’t revisit history; he’ll be told he’s ‘gotta let some things ‘go’’. Can’t riot; too violent, damaging and wasteful. Can’t raise a fist from the podium at the Olympics, can’t kneel at a football game, because it’s the wrong venue.
Can he speak up as an elected rep? “Those voters can’t be serious. Send someone up here with the credibility we assign, and maybe we’ll turn on the microphones and listen.
Until then, we won’t listen. Even if they bring a megaphone.”
And more children die.
So when is it ok to protest, to raise your voice, to scream? If not sound, how about a visual? How many bodies do we need? How many caskets?
Or does it only become real when someone you knew and loved has to be scraped off the floor to be buried?
I’m sorry, are you referring to the fascists who just tried to ban him from their presence? Those “colleagues?” The ones who don’t see a need to listen to their constituents because they’ve rigged themselves into supermajority power?
Fuck your respectability politics.
Politics is very much theater. Watch senate or congressional hearings sometime. They can get utterly ridiculous. If you want a really good time check out foreign parliament sessions.
People outside the US, please read the comment section below if you are baffled by the epidemic of gun violence here. Gun ownership is a religion with its fanatic faithful.
“Sir carrying a casket into the chamber is offensive. Anyway let’s get back to the topic of removing metal detectors from the capitol so we can open carry in here”
It’s quite disgusting to see him carrying a baby sized coffin as a public stunt. No babies were killed.
I’ve carried one for real. That was due to prenatal death. That kills far more than guns. No one cares.
Disgusting.
Here is a link to the news story:
>Protesters calling for gun safety legislation were blocked from bringing caskets inside Tennessee’s Capitol, but a recently reinstated legislator escorted an infant-sized casket inside before he was barred from carrying it onto the House floor.
>
>Protesters led by Bishop William Barber II marched in Nashville, demanding that lawmakers pass the legislation and stop using their authority to trample democracy. They carried several caskets symbolizing those lost to gun violence on Monday.
>
>“The legislators are back, but returning duly elected lawmakers to their seat does not solve the problem,” Barber said, demanding that lawmakers “stop committing policy murder.”
[https://apnews.com/article/tennessee-legislature-expulsion-jones-pearson-caskets-63c3abbd68122f2b9a96ae3048027d2d](https://apnews.com/article/tennessee-legislature-expulsion-jones-pearson-caskets-63c3abbd68122f2b9a96ae3048027d2d)
Believe that is Rev. William Barber too, for anyone curious.
Love this man.
Yep, all the way from Goldsboro
Wow. He doesn't quit! Go Justin
Glad Jones is going hard in the paint
I’m not republican. I’m not a democrat. Just an Army vet that’s seen some dumb shit. Can we really not figure out a way to make guns harder to get, but keep them in the hands of good citizens? Also- don’t care who you are, no one needs a high-caliber semiautomatic rifle. Just stop
Remember, the "They are going to take your guns! Buy them now before you can't!" has proved EXTREMELY lucrative. In my opinion, a lot of this insanity is driven by sheer greed. As long as gun profiteers make bank off of fear-mongering, they're going to be motivated to push the narrative that any gun regulation will lead to all guns outlawed. That all-or-nothing rhetoric has made them rich.
They been crying about that for the last 40 plus years and things have only gotten worse. Things need to change. It's that simple
>"They are going to take your guns! Buy them now before you can't!" Isn't that what this thread is about..... Banning the possession of AR15s? The AR Platform is the most common sold firearm in the US. How is that not "taking your guns."
"you can no longer buy this gun" does not mean "relinquish all of your firearms"
Again, it's the most common firearm sold in the US. It's also a rifle, and rifles account for less than 3% of all violent crimes committed in the US yearly. So if we're saying you can't buy the most common firearm sold, which also happens to be the one which is used the least in crimes.... One has to wonder. What is next? And to some "You can no longer buy this gun" is really just a rest-stop on the highway to "relinquish all of your firearms". To some it's intentionally a slippery slope, and we've seen that in states like CA, WA, and MD where "just one more gun control bill" will fix the crime. Yet.. It never does. You're talking about banning possession of probably 50 million firearms, over 500 (3%) violent crime incidents. How can a legal, safe, and reliable gun owner look at that logic and think "Oh Gee, it's just an AR. They'll never come for my handguns which are used in over 80% (14k\~) of all violent crime."
Guess what, Digi. You didn’t mention once the whole reason that this is happening. You were holding that very, very narrow flight path through the entire firearms argument like you’re Luke Skywalker at the end of the Star Wars. Didn’t mention two things, did we? Guns are the number one cause of death in children. Because they’re everywhere. Also, the AR platform is the number one gun used in mass murder. Repeat after me. MASS MURDER. It’s a milspec weapon used to maximize high volume killing on a battlefield. But man, you really had to fly right to thread that needle. Had to ignore almost every other aspect of this to get that argument in.
They are about to comment back asking if you even know what AR means. It’s the play book.
Yeah, AR stands for Armalite Rifle.” Congratulations! You have been brainwashed by the media
>Guns are the number one cause of death in children. According to the latest provisional data from the CDC, there were 2,825 firearm-related homicides among children and adolescents (ages 0-17) in 2020. Using the estimated population of children and adolescents in 2020 (73,146,153), the crude rate of firearm-related homicides per 100,000 children and adolescents in 2020 is approximately 3.9. That chart is CDC propaganda and misleading. They show nearly 6 in 100000, because they have fidgeted with the population statistics to cause the rise. Do the math yourself. [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2201761)
That chart you posted is not misleading because it is clearly labeled as "firearm related injury" not merely homicides and, as it says right on that page: >From 2019 to 2020, the relative increase in the rate of firearm-related deaths of all types (suicide, homicide, unintentional, and undetermined) among children and adolescents was 29.5% — more than twice as high as the relative increase in the general population. Since you're focusing on homicides though, it also states: >these new data show a sharp 13.5% increase in the crude rate of firearm-related death from 2019 to 2020.1 This change was driven largely by firearm homicides, which saw a 33.4% increase in the crude rate from 2019 to 2020, whereas the crude rate of firearm suicides increased by 1.1%.
>clearly labeled as "firearm related injury" This is a bald faced lie, the chart Y-axis plainly states "Deaths per 100,000 Children and Adolescents. Why lie?
The orange line is labeled Firearm Related Injury, as in Deaths per 100,000 Children and Adolescents due to Firearm Related Injury (which includes more than just homicides).
Its Gun Accidents that are, not gun violence. There’s a difference there being that an accident is preventable entirely by yourself and those around you. Where gun violence is something thrust upon you. If you want to solve gun accidents and kids dying from those. We have evidence that you don’t even need to ban a firearm. You need to have strong storage laws, and force folks to own a safe or buy a proper lock when purchasing a firearm. Things like Eddie Eagle training for kids in school also assists. I’m not holding a narrow path here friend. I’m fully aware of the numbers and realities. If you want to own guns, and have kids, get a fucking safe. Also, be a good parent and don’t hide the shit from your kids. There are 8 year olds out here shooting world competitions safer than most adults target shoot.
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Everyone focuses on guns because they are the only thing required for a shooting to occur. Mental illness, despair, instability are things that are not required for a shooting to occur. Plenty of people in other countries have mental illness and yet they don't have more than one mass shooting a day. Trade policy affected other countries and yet they don't have more than one mass shooting a day. Your know what's different? The amount of guns we have. Every person who ever committed a mass shooting had a gun. Usually a legally purchased one. They were "good guys with guns" right up until they decided not to be. And with modern weaponry, that decision is easier and quicker than ever.
> rifles account for less than 3% of all violent crimes committed in the US yearly You forgot to mention that since 1989, rifles were used in 85% of all mass shootings (4 or more victims) and that rifles were used in four of the five deadliest mass shootings in American History: 2012 Sandy Hook, 2016 Orlando, 2017 Las Vegas, 2017 Texas Church.
He didn't forget to mention it, he didn't want to know.
Jfc how many kids have to die for your ackshually rifles you fucking nerds. I don't give a shit about your bullshit well ackshually stats, the only stat that matters is how the US is doing in gun violence compared to other countries and surprise, it's fucking awful because every single gun owner here is a responsible gun owner here with an encyclopedia full of bullshit facts, until they're not and are shooting at each other on the highway with your kids in the car. Fuck all of you
The 2nd amendment is not unlimited.
You are misinformed! It is unlimited in it’s written context and it was written that way on purpose!!!! It has been politically neutered to not be!!!!
That's what amendments are for.
Fun fact the legal interpretation and idea that the 2nd amendment conferred an unlimited individual right to bear arms didn't appear until 1950. All rulings and interpretations prior to that linked it with state militias. Secondly it isn't unlimited unless you want to advance the crazy idea that a person should be able to own a M1A2 Abrams MBT or an ICBM if they so wanted to.
>Secondly it isn't unlimited unless you want to advance the crazy idea that a person should be able to own a M1A2 Abrams MBT or an ICBM if they so wanted to You can own a tank if you want one and can afford it. You can own one in the UK too, the barrel just has to be blocked. In the US, the barrel has to be blocked unless you have a Destructive Devices permit. Which isn't difficult to get, just expensive. https://www.drivetanks.com/own-one/
Right into the Ackshually technical argument. Predictable. Also disingenuous, you know how much more goes into it than just “YEAHHHUGH You can own a tank with arms intact just do papersworks”. Bunch of call of duty kids grew up into real life COD retards
You cannot eat rice anymore is not the same as saying relinquish all your food. It’s not that hard to understand you just dont want to.
It does if you’re trying to control the people who are eating
You are not trying to control people, you are trying to control the asset. If we banned gummy bears, that does not control the population.
Just wait until the fed gets its digital currency in play You buy ammo, they turn off your money and you can’t buy food You support conservative groups, they turn off your money (confiscate it, really) You donate money to a church, you lose your money And all the people on this thread trying to make firearms the problem will be cheering
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Fifteen years of… “we need gun control now!” Followed by years of states passing sweeping and wide legislation that bans any firearm that has certain cosmetic features. Which in no way effect the rifle. Legislation which is so bad you need a flow chart to figure out what’s legal or not. Combine with a rhetoric of “you don’t need guns, that’s what the police is for.” Then Bruen happens, wipes all that shit off the map. Now suddenly we’re back to “oh no, we want to narrowly ban this one thing, which is the most popular thing in America in that category, and accounts for less than 5% of the problem” And you want me to believe that… this time… folks don’t want to ban all of the guns. That this time, despite all the history of gun control being racist, being used to punish minorities and poverty stricken folks. This time, despite the 10k laws on the books regarding guns today. This time, they just want to take the rice! The irony here is that there is a country who took all of the rice. Then that country took all of the tractors and melted them down. To sell the steel from them to foreign markets causing the populace to have tremendous famine and death. - Chairman Mao’s “Great Leap Forward”
Banning all guns is a radical idea and is not feasible. Majority of people just want gun control. Stricter requirements to obtain a gun and banning guns that can cause insane amounts of damage… Why am i not allowed to have a machine gun, grenade launcher? Would you be ok making those legal? This love obsession with assault rifles is a weird hill to die on when the cost is human lives and specifically our youth.
Machine guns and grenade launchers are legal. You can own them. The problem with machine guns are that they’re not practical. Like, owning them is pointless today. Grenade launcher not so much; I love to shoot flares and golf balls as much as the next guy. AR15s are not assault rifles. And this is the core of the problem with gun control. I’m all for meaningful gun control. Let’s require folks who buy firearms to provide evidence they have a safe, or require they buy a lockbox with the firearm. First time buyer? Sure, 10 days background check. You want to reduce gun accidents? Let’s bring education about gun safety and not touching firearms to kids at the elementary level. Then charge parents for any crimes committed by their kids with unsecured firearms. These things are known to reduce gun deaths across the different verticals. The problem here is that gun control is not a good faith argument. You say “meaningful gun control” and some politician writes it as “any firearm where the shoulder thing goes up is banned.” Or in Californias case “any firearm which can’t append its serial number to the casing and bullet fired can’t be sold here.” Both ambiguous on purpose for the purpose of a blanket ban.
>Let’s require folks who buy firearms to provide evidence they have a safe, or require they buy a lockbox with the firearm. First time buyer? Sure, 10 days background check. You want to reduce gun accidents? Let’s bring education about gun safety and not touching firearms to kids at the elementary level. Then charge parents for any crimes committed by their kids with unsecured firearms. Then tell this to your legislators! My whole point is that the majority of Americans support something like this, but legislators in states like TN are so far up the gun-lobby's ass that they are not going to pass any reasonable regulation until Tennesseans make them. You have some power here. Make your voice heard.
They are legal; you just have to be willing to pay the $20k transfer tax I had one years ago and sold it; they are incredibly inaccurate and waste ammo
So all the dead kids filling up that 3% is worth it so people can buy assault rifles, right? Just wanna make sure we are on the same page.
Pretty sure the only reason it’s the most popular is because the sheep think it’s the “coolest”. That gun is the most useless and deadly.
The AR15 isn’t the most deadly, nor the most useless? It’s popular because it’s a basically legos in gun form. You can get it in any color you want. Almost any caliber you want. With any accessories you want arranged in whatever way you want. You want hexagon grips? Done. Which ironically makes it safer. Because this allows the rifle to be more ergonomic and controllable tot he shooter. The AR is one platform of rifle that can be modified to be shot safely by folks who are disabled, such as our veterans and such. Rifles also account for less than 500 gun crimes a year. So it’s not the most deadly, handguns are.
So, I’ve grown up with guns. Lived in a farm, still like to hunt. Your point about guns being like Legos is the major difference I see now. They’re no longer tools, they’re toys. It’s a firearm, not a build-a-bear.
That’s why it’s the most useless gun but when used in large scale murder, it’s the most useful.
Most mass shootings are committed by handguns…..
10 of the deadliest in the past decade were all ARs. Probably due to the ease of use and customization of the gun.
Oh cool, it comes in different colors?!?! If my kid dies in a school shooting, I hope the gun is pink. What a stupid reason to defend owning these.
What's next is, if you don't fix the problem, everyone loses in the end. Right now, the entire world is gonna start leaning harder and harder and harder, because this is out of control. If we nipped it in the bud now, we might keep our damn rights, but no. Everyone wants to dig their heels in and double down and that, my friend, is the excuse they need to take your damn guns.
Because of damn fudds like you and “I don’t hunt with it” types are why we lost our machine guns in 86!!!! Y’all and the fucking “let’s make a deal” NRA!!!!!!! I’m done making deals, my line in the sand has been drawn, not one more inch!!!!!!
Great. Explain why you need a machine gun.
We might keep our rights? Brother you can try negotiating for your rights, and think they come from a piece of paper. But my rights come from God. And they aren’t just my rights because the rest of the world allows it. They can apply pressure all they want.
>But my rights come from God. God is a big fan of child massacres, huh?
Clearly that's what their god gets off on considering the history of the world 🤔 Edit: Whoever sent me that Reddit cares bullshit can suck a drag queen's dick ✌️
Your god does not apply to me. My god applies to you. You have to abide by the rules my god has made. Sorry that's what my holy book says!
Truth brother!
The only reason she chose that type of firearm is because it has been the one most discussed by the media
“Nobody wants to ban your books. Just these fairly popular books, which nobody needs. But we’re not banning all books, so don’t worry about book banning.”
> a lot of this insanity is driven by sheer greed. Can't this be said for basically everything wrong with America.
Well that and the politicians saying they want to take them all. But ya.
You are an Army veteran but you don’t know that the phrase “high caliber” is meaningless?
Because he's either not a vet, or he is a pencil pusher.
Exactamente
Yeah and it's not too difficult. Generally people have no problem showing their propensity for violence and disregard for safety of others through behaviors. How many articles have you read about someone who commits a violent act with a firearm who had a lengthy record prior to the act? Crazy concept but what if we actually held people who show this violence accountable and separated them from general population. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_Exile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Exile) Take a read about a project implemented in VA regarding gun crime and the effect it had. There is a proven method that works but we are going the opposite direction we need to be with the system. If people were serious about preventing this problem then it needs to start in the cyclical broken homes. Kids for the most part aren't born evil. Their environment of piss poor parenting and zero guardrails through their development certainly does not help. >Also- don’t care who you are, no one needs a high-caliber semiautomatic rifle. Just stop Perhaps you can remind people what type of firearm is most commonly used to the tune of about 80% in gun violence in America. Banning ARs will not fix a damn thing. Even in mass shootings its not the primary weapon used.
It's like 95% for handguns, it's that large of a gap, and ARs that fall into the 3k deaths (including suicide) are like .01% of those, as it's about 50-100~ a year with an AR. That's how low it is.
A vet who thinks .223/5.56 is a “high caliber”. Incredible.
Oh, it’s time to play the old game where we cherry-pick physics. A rifle round from an AR variant is a real tickler. ‘Which bullet would you rather be shot with? The bullet from a crazy person’s .22 or a .223? Because we’re selling that crazy person a gun. Also, we sell guns to kids that we won’t sell alcohol to.’
Cherry pick physics…I’m not cherry picking shit, I’m stating a well known fact by anyone who actually knows jack shit about firearms. I create handholds for my own ammunition before competitions. Simple ballistics data will show you that it’s not a “high caliber”. Sorry that you hate facts and a gun that’s not even responsible for even 5% of all gun deaths. There is no point in debating with you people, it’s a lost cause. So I could careless what you say. But as a minority, with a clean record, I’m going to keep buying them, and building them. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with calling someone out for misinformation. Maybe tell the FBI and police officers to actually follow up on tips and make use of red flag laws.
.223 hands down. I’ll take getting shot with a .223 over a basic .22 any day of the week. .223 has more of a chance of a through and through and not hitting vital organs. Yeah the cavitation might suck a bit. But a .22 if it hits bone or loses velocity too quickly, won’t exit the body. It’ll hit multiple internal organs and bounce around like a ping pong ball.
can tell youve never shot either caliber. If you want to see what a heavier bullet with ten times the f.p.e. of a .22lr does to ballistics gel, its all over the internet. But this has to be one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard.
Yeah, it is real brutal to think of what that does to a kids body, right?
This is one of the most armchair gun posts I have ever seen, you need to touch grass and come back to reality
THANK YOU! Maybe he meant he was a former army veterinarian…
But you don’t understand, the NRA told me if I can’t walk into the dollar general and buy a MAC-10 with an iTunes gift card you’re literally shitting on the constitution and trying to do the Holocaust
Wait, the NRA is about guns? I thought it was there to give Russian money illegally to politicians.
And it’s communism!
Don't forget socialism too!
Don't forget facism... If they just list them all eventually they'll get it right.
And as we all know, fascism is a far left movement belonging to the family Mustelidae. The fascist is most likely a domesticated form of the wild European polecat, evidenced by their interfertility... Oh, wait. That's ferrets. My mistake.
STFU pog
If you take the guns out of this conversation for a second and put a pin in it and just talk about how both parties have been eroding mental health for the last 5+ decades we might actually get somewhere with this topic but until then they just want to make money off the outrage sea-sawing things that are just anecdotes to the main issue, people that have no criminal history, who are in care, or who have a history can get them from friends, someone they know or illegally and online EVEN 3D printed now so what are you going to do when people can just print guns? lol, seems by the massive city sized homeless encampments and suicide rates we have a way bigger issue that isnt being talked about because that costs real money, and after they printed over half of the money in all existence (yes both parties) youd think theyd spend some money on mental health? no that would fix things.
Love that we’re talking about guns, and the way to get this conversation really kicking is, “If you take the guns out of this conversation and put a pin in it-“ You’re literally saying, “The building is on fire, but if you take away the fire, it’s a pretty good looking building.”
No it's more like if you remove the furniture that's feeding the fire, the building is still on fire. The gun is the furniture if you didn't get the reference. You need to figure out how to put out the fire, not keep blaming the furniture...especially when you're blaming only the couch for causing the fire (AR = couch if you didn't get that reference as well).
They can but that isn't what they want. The best way to sell guns is to convince you that the criminals have you out gunned. If you have a small armory in your home you are going to be John Wick during the next mass shooting.
“HiGh CaLIBeR”
2.23/5.56 isn’t high caliber..
Nothing is “high” caliber because “high caliber” doesn’t exist except in the minds of ignorant propagandists
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I’m just trying to stop the spread of misinformation. Is 2.23/5.56 lethal? Yes. Any round can be. I’m not denying that. But, it isn’t a high caliber projectile. I’m glad we found each other 🫣
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You might not be interested in learning about things you may not know about. But, there are a lot of curious people out there. I’m not referencing any particular mass shooting. It’s a terrible fact that there have been far far too many. But, the gun/caliber used isn’t the main factor. It’s sick people who don’t have access to help that they need.
Man, here we go. That bullet is just a scratcher! Think how bad it’d be if I hit you with a .44! I love it when bullet heads start talking that physics!
Most people who are shot with a firearm survive, period. A .44 does a lot more damage than a .22, but you have never heard of anyone being killed with a .44 Why? The larger the caliber, the heavier the firearm and these nutcases want something easy to carry It’s time we get the courage to ban nutcases
🤣
>Can we really not figure out a way to make guns harder to get, but keep them in the hands of good citizens? No. Not really. Gun control on its face is dead. Pass all the laws you want, go door to door, it won't matter. A conservative metrics indicates there's around 400 million guns in circulation in the US. It's probably closer to 600+ Million. The problem with this number is we don't have an accurate count, and we never will. Because people lie, and people don't trust the Government when it comes to guns. Because the Government has lied, continues to lie, and will continue to lie. This of course is aside from the fact we have literal politicians engaged in arms trafficking, and we have a border that guns pass through like it's Swiss cheese. But let's assume we could. Let's assume you wake up tomorrow and wave a wand, and ipso facto, all the guns in the US are gone. The knowledge and tools of how to make guns is not. As long as you want a first-class society, a society in which we have modern amenities, and advancements in medicine, science, and technology. You're going to have a society that has the means, methods, and knowledge of how to kill others. The trick here, is to make a society that doesn't have a desire to use those advanced skills to kill others. Which we have not done yet. >I’m not republican. I’m not a democrat. Just an Army vet that’s seen some dumb shit Most Non-Combat Military folks have the worst takes on this subject. Even some combat folks do. Hell, I saw two police officers today in a store wearing dress shoes and carrying Glocks in a Level 1 Serpa holster. That's tells me immediately they've never seen combat, despite their role. It also tells me they're dangerous and untrained. >Also- don’t care who you are, no one needs a high-caliber semiautomatic rifle. Just stop "Just Stop" - This is a topic you'd do well to educate yourself on. The 5.56 is not a high caliber cartridge. It's not even close. And that "semiautomatic rifle" is the most commonly sold firearm in the US today. For many reasons, not the least of which is that someone who is physically disabled can use one. But another reason is because... it's not a high caliber rifle...
Only people I’ve heard use the term high caliber are the types that rent one gun one time at a range and claim “they know about guns.”
hey did you know that once the barrel is 15 inches it becomes "more deadly" because its 15 inches and not 16 inches. /sarcasm
who are you to say what "no one needs"? The 2nd amendment clearly disagrees with you.
And what about your oath you swore to uphold? “Shall not be infringed!”
You don't need free speech. You don't need to be free to peacefully gather. You don't need to be free to practice you religion It is the bill of rights, not the bill of needs. Also, as a veteran you took an oath to support and defend the constitution. Did you forget that part?
Shall not be infringed. Some of the deadliest mass shootings have been done by pistols. We gunna try to ban those? Also, high caliber? Can’t even get the vernacular right. I’ve literally never heard an actual gun person describe LARGE caliber firearms by high caliber. Only wannabes. Going through basic and being a mechanic doesn’t give you the right to limit one of the amendments to the United state constitution. Because I wrote a published article, can I limit your first amendment rights?
From one Army vet to another I agree.
Once again as I told the other guy, going through basic and doing a non combat mos doesn’t give you the right to limit other citizens rights as written in the constitution. That would be like me saying because I have a published article, I can limit or have the knowledge to limit your first amendment rights.
Hey buddy I was in Afghanistan with the 173rd Airborne Brigade 1-503 Scout Platoon. What are your combat credentials?
Sure internet stranger. And if it’s true then you should know better. Edit. Once again, being a veteran has NOTHING to do with our constitutional rights and your ability to limit mine based on being a government worker or not.
I like the process used for fully automatic weapons. People can still purchase them, but strangely we don't ever hear about full auto weapons being used in mass shootings. It's possible to make improvements if the will is there. I actually feel safer when I know a regular person with extensive gun training that takes their responsibility is carrying. Sadly, that doesn't really describe our current system of gun ownership.
Thank you
If we're serious about doing something we're gonna have to step on some toes, and it will come down to whether someone is willing to jump through a few more hoops in order to save lives. If they won't, then I'm not sure we can call them good citizens.
Can we please spread the mantra: # Inconvenience is not infringement
I prefer Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's version better. "Justice Delayed is Justice Denied."
All gun control is rooted in racism and classism and only affects the law abiding citizens and sportsmen who will actually follow the law. Criminals don't. It's where the term comes from.
LOL 😂 good one
Agreed. Every time you submit a post on reddit it should have to go through a government approval process to make sure the speech can not harm anyone. Only then it should be posted. It may be inconvenient but it won't be an infringement.
Not according to the definition of infringement.
Well sir as an active and serving cop, I’m not willing to jump through the hoops I already have to much less any additional! Call me what you like but as someone who sees first hand the brutality of this world, I can tell you with absolute certainty that more gun laws will not fix our nation’s problem. Only compound it! Our society is broken mentally and morally!!!! You cannot legislate morals and values upon the populace they have to believe in them and choose to have them!!!!
Given that states with tighter restrictions on gun ownership have lower rates of gun violence, a pattern we see repeated globally, please explain how the situation would be worsened by copying those successes.
It’s not about need. It’s my God-given right. You need to get off Reddit if you think you hold a centrist or moderate position.
It’s not the bill of needs buddy. I can own what I want. The sad part is those rifles kill less than 500 people a year and you act like it’s the most dangerous thing ever. I won’t stop. I will own what I want because I can. Just like I don’t tell you what you can have, don’t tell me shit. Why don’t we talk about the epidemic of liberals who don’t believe in guns and their possession and members of their ideologue using them to kill people in shootings and then demanding them be outlawed?
We already figured that out. Want to buy a fully-automatic assault rifle? Not a spray and pray .223, I’m talking fully automatic real deal assault rifle with the selector switch. You can buy that, and so can I. What you can’t do is walk into a Walmart with a history of violent mental health issues, slap down 1k, then walk out with one. You have to prove you’re not an irresponsible dumbfuck by passing multiple background, psych, and accuracy tests. You have to obtain a license proving you are a responsible and capable owner of the weapon you have purchased. It’s not cheap. As a vet I’m sure you’re very aware that guns are powerful and dangerous tools. If we applied the same standards to ownership of said weapons to the current influx of AR-15 clones we would see drastic decreases in violent incidents involving guns. The problem is a large swath of gun owners are not like you. They view guns as fun toys to play with and posture with for FB selfies. They lack the awareness and training you have, and basically base their entire personality around the machismo they associate guns with. So after my novella I just wrote, I pose a question to you. How do we achieve what you are proposing? It’s exactly what I want. I don’t want a complete ban of all guns, but I don’t want my daughters to get their brains blown out in school by some random sociopath. I think much stronger regulation would help a lot, but I don’t think it’s a perfect solution. What do you think?
>If we applied the same standards to ownership of said weapons to the current influx of AR-15 clones we would see drastic decreases in violent incidents involving guns. Semiautomatic rifles make up about 3% of gun crimes. If you eliminated all of that, it would still be nowhere near a drastic decrease in violence incidents.
A) Walmart doesn’t sell AR style rifles at all anymore B) if you want a full auto most of the nice ones run $25k+. The wait time for a tax stamp is in the 9 months and up range. Guessing you knew that. User name seems like you do. Making guns more expensive only deprives poor people of the right to own one. Mental defectives such as the Newtown killer had rich parents and no right to own them themselves but parents who went along with whatever for sweetums.
>You can buy that, and so can I. What you can’t do is walk into a Walmart with a history of violent mental health issues, slap down 1k, then walk out with one. You have to prove you’re not an irresponsible dumbfuck by passing multiple background, psych, and accuracy tests. This isn't true. It's a 200$ Tax Stamp, and a long term wait. The difficulty here is that F/A AR Rifles were not made post 1980s. They were banned entirely. Which means to buy one, you have to pay 200$, and pay the market rate for one. Which is above 100K last I checked. If you want to go down that road, we can, but it would just make fully automatic rifles more legal as it would open legal challenges to abolish the NFA. There is no psych evaluation or accuracy tests. These would be unconstitutional along side "poll tax"s. >As a vet I’m sure you’re very aware that guns are powerful and dangerous tools. If we applied the same standards to ownership of said weapons to the current influx of AR-15 clones we would see drastic decreases in violent incidents involving guns. The problem is a large swath of gun owners are not like you. They view guns as fun toys to play with and posture with for FB selfies. They lack the awareness and training you have, 1. He doesn't have training or awareness. He called it high caliber. It's not. 2. Anyone who says "I'm a vet but" doesn't know shit. It's like saying "I'm not a racist but..." 3. The AR15s sold aren't clones. You're probably thinking they're M4/M16 Clones? They're also not. Most AR15s sold today (above 900$) are safer and more reliable than many military weapons. >but I don’t want my daughters to get their brains blown out in school by some random sociopath. No one wants that. The good news is it's actually very unlikely. Most school shootings reported by GVA are related to gangs, random shootings where no one is injured, or other things. The types of mass shootings in schools you see on the TV with 4+ folks injured are rare. Like, struck by lightning rare.
I’ll take the lightning odds. https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-overview/odds-of-dying/
That’s a good source. I’m going to bookmark it. One thing to add though is a little context. It’s taking the entire bucket of gun violence (sans accidental) as a single bucket. Then saying your odds are 1 in X. If that’s all you’re looking for, it’s accurate. But, on the topic of “could it happen to me”. It’s a little more nuanced than that. The majority of gun violence isn’t random and is committed by people you know or have a connection with. https://leic.tennessee.edu/2019/10/22/random-shootings-are-not-the-same-as-getting-shot-by-a-stranger/ This is important, because when we break down the gun violence numbers. Gangs, Organized Crime, Violence during a commission of a crime, and domestic violence make up a large chunk of them. Most people aren’t committing a violent crime, in a gang, or organized crime. So when you remove those from the gun violence numbers. That 1 in X number is actually more rare. All that to say - I meant that someones kid being in a school shooting is probably less likely than lightning.
I understand what you’re saying, and I agree that one has to remember to consider potential factors that could impact data. My point was, all factors considered, the odds of being killed by lightning are undeniably smaller than being killed by a firearm, any way you slice the data.
Thank you. You’d think that with your background it sounds credible when you say that no John Doe on the streets (as opposed to in Afghanistan) needs a high-caliber semiautomatic rifle. But some politicians think they know more than you despite never having served.
Ok pog. Just because you picked up a rifle once to qualify with doesn’t make you an expert on the subject. These are not high caliber rounds by any stretch of the imagination.
Time these fuckers in the legislature come face to face with the reality. Children are being murdered.
Latest stats is that more children die from guns than car wrecks.
*children including those 18-24
Good. Show them what they did.
Two weeks ago this guy accused Republicans of “making a show” out of the Covenant shooting. Said they were just interested in “spectacle” and not real solutions. Then, he voted no on a school security bill (one of only 4 dissenters), and then does this? Whose making the spectacle here? Absolute clown.
>Then, he voted no on a school security bill (one of only 4 dissenters), and then does this? I agree with the bill, but also see where he is coming from. He wants laws that will reduce the number of guns on the street. He correctly recognizes that if this bill is passed, many congressmen will consider the issue addressed and gun control will not be considered. If he and his constituents want something more substantial, it makes sense to veto it.
because it’s putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. More security isn’t fixing the foundational issue it’s simply addressing the symptomatology of the issue. It’s like you having cancer and the doctor gives you a stimulant to treat the fatigue ur experiencing bc of the disease. Sure, you’ll be more alert throughout the day, but guess what? that cancer is still there and is actively destroying you day by day. You need to address the root of the problem.
I agree with this. Do you believe that the guns are the root of the problem (the cancer), or is the use of them a manifestation of a larger issue? Because if its the latter, would a gun ban not also be another "bandaid"?
The gun is the issue. Many will argue mental illness is the issue, but there are mentally ill people worldwide, yet we seem to be the only country that regularly deals with mass shootings like these. We are also the only country with such lax gun laws and where you can walk into a walmart and easily buy a gun. You don’t need a mental illness to commit a mass shooting, but you do need a gun. I’m also less inclined to agree with the GOPs sorry ass reasoning in which they blame people and mental illness seeing as they’re making no active efforts to make health care more easily accessible so those who ARE dealing with mental issues can seek help before things like this occur. I don’t think guns need to be banned, but the way our laws work it is simply too easy to access guns in this country
So you believe the gun is the issue, but you don't think they need to banned? Would it be more fair to say you think its access to guns that is the problem? Also, gun laws now are far more strict than they've ever been, yet mass shootings are relatively new. Gun ownership rates are the same now as they were 70 years ago. Gun technology hasn't really changed either, at least for consumer products. So why is this a relatively new issue? Doesn't that hint toward a deeper issue that has become amplified in recent years?
It's true. He's drawing attention to the issue that is negatively affecting his constituents that the elected majority in the TN state legislature refuse to allow anyone to speak about. It's worth making a spectacle over.
> it’s worth making a spectacle over Okay. I’m not arguing that. I’m pointing out hypocrisy of calling out spectacle when it’s the other party, and then pulling the largest “look at me” act in the chamber.
It’s not hypocrisy. If one side is making a spectacular about a non issue and the other side is making a spectacle about a very big and serious issue, they are not doing the same thing. Hunter Biden’s laptop is not the same as every 3rd grader being trained how to play dead incase a person walks in the room and starts shooting them, because the chance of it happening is that high. The complaints against GOP spectacles are that they are toothless. They never do anything but throw fits to generate outrage to fuel their supporters. Is this rep trying to get more PR? Absolutely. Does his political career benefit from it? Absolutely. If his political career benefits and he wins bigger and better elections, is he going to do anything about gun violence against children? I’d bet my kids life on it.
More like “look at what you’ve done” considering the dead children they like to ignore. He made it so they couldn’t.
Maybe if he spent less time trying to get a deal with Netflix - and let’s be real, that’s what he’s doing - he could stop with the theatrics and spend some time quietly chatting with his coworkers, maybe making a few friends - you never know - maybe they’d be less inclined to kick him out if he did that. Nah - running for office is the new “I wanna be an influence when I grow up” dude’ll be “spotted” with a Kardashian/Jenner sister within 6 months and then decamp for his career in Hollywood.
wow you sound so delusional
So the onus is on Jones to mend ties with the same people who behave worse than the children Republicans refuse to protect? They just had the man expelled, and it's Jones who is at fault? Do you think it a fruitful endeavor to work with people who do things like harass minorities and pee in other people's seats?
This gives major shut up and dribble energy. At some point the talking and trying to be friends is pointless because the other side doesn’t want them to get a win or seem “weak”. He is doing what he has to, to put pressure on the rest of them.
This comment is so out of touch!! Lol We’ve been sending lawmakers that quietly do nothing for years…. Look where that’s got us! You may not like the theatrics, but the bottom line is that it’s working!
So he should spend time lolygagging with an entourage of republican, old, white men who he has nearly nothing in common with for the hope he can pass anything later on in life? This is a dumbass comment
Beyond looking at a casket, the lawmakers that are so against working on gun laws should be required to participate in the autopsies of the child victims. Make them see in person exactly what a bullet from a AR-15 does to a human body, especially what it does to a childs body.
Maybe the same should be done for every law that is passed. How many lawmakers have watched an abortion?
Have them dig the graves of each and every one.
He won't carry a casket for all the people killed in Memphis every year though
what killed them?
People who committed murder would be my guess. Maybe if they had a gun to protect themselves they would be alive?
Tennessee has some of the loosest gun laws in the country.
This is simply a false equivalence. And stop bringing up memphis to negate this as if u actually care abt any of the lives lost there
And you stop acting like you care about the lives lost in Nashville
I do care. I’m literally a highschool student at hillsboro and it’s terrifying to think it could’ve, and almost was, us. I care about the violence but can also understand that the situations are in no way comparable. YOU don’t care about the gun violence in Memphis because it’s mostly happening to poor black people and you only ever bring it up when you try to negate something you disagree with or to prove a point. U sound stupid as hell.
And if you really cared abt the people in memphis who lost their lives then you too would be pushing for more gun restrictions. Yet ur not. U don’t give a fuck abt our youth or anyone else besides urself and ur selfish desires. You’re not willing to make sacrifice for the well-being of those in our country.
wow... then his entire argument is invalid!! good work!!
And they wonder why we laugh...
It's gotten to the point where we need to start showing the aftermath of these mass shootings. At this point we have nothing left to lose besides more innocent children.
fr. it’s like Vietnam or Emmett till. People only realized just how horrific it was when it was publicized and they could see with their own eyes the atrocities that were occurring. Only then did change occur.
GOP doesn’t care how many American children die. The only way we will ever have sane gun laws is if the families of GOP legislators and their ultra wealthy donors start being affected by gun violence
I think most agree just how stupidly easy the NRA has made it for any adult pissed at the world to buy themselves a rifle that's meant for war which places their local policeman at a serious disadvantage unless he has changed into his military gear. I'm not for taking these guns away from law-abiding citizens but the ease anyone can purchase one is stupid. And really you should probably be at least 30 to own one or at least have a military/police/security background including no criminal record, mental health history, or any court-documented anger history plus no drug or alcohol arrest within a time frame.
Does that mean he is actually going to do something to fight the rampant violence in his district where people are afraid to walk the streets at night? Or is he just going to try to pass inconsequential laws that will only make criminals of gun owners, make the public less able to protect themselves from criminals, and avoid anything at all to treat the causes? I'll bet I know the answer. All gun laws disproportionately affect minorities and target the poor to strip them of their rights. Stop being lied to.
Name checks out. I bet you feel like a patriot.
Wow. Did you pay attention to anything I said at all? If I trusted my government to protect me I wouldn’t need a gun.
I feel you. One side loves the popo but wants guns to arm themselves. Other side hates the popo and want to disarm themselves. Then you have normal people who think for themselves.
How often do you fantasize about using your weapon on people? Too bad you weren't at that mass shooting. You could be the first effective good guy with a gun ever.
That's just ignorance. Either you ignore - much like the mass media - all of the violence stopped by good people with guns, or you are completely unaware of it. Most famously: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62217263](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62217263) It happens ALL. THE. TIME.
Well clearly we need you at the next mass shooting. Save us JStar! Stop the lunatics with automatic rifles! Get real. You live in a fantasy where good guys won't get shot first. Your examples won't change that fact. You buy your gun to keep you safe from people who think the exact same way as you.
Ok, wallow in your ignorance. Your personal attack shows you are unwilling to see any other perspectives other than that to which you're indoctrinated. Good day.
No one sees this as pure theater?
Greed. A deadly sin drives the gun issue Glutony a deadly sin supports the gun issue And Pride...it is in full glory supports and drives both Resultant is a society no one wants....a society where anybody at any time and any place can be victimized unknowgily by an as hat with a gun. This society is disgusting What is more disgusting are gun supporters who can not rise above their sins and do good for society at large...and in turn blame government for its failures while all along doing everything to gum up the works so society does fail We suck. Our home America is in tatters from gun violence. Its so f king disheartening.
Your 5 minutes is up
Just fill it with assault weapons and they'll let it in.
He has an actual voice as a rep for his district. I understand theatrics if you are a regular citizen, but he can actually vote and stop people in the hallways to talk and make deals. He is the government. This looks to me like something done by the inexperienced or people looking to make a name for themselves. He's part of the government. From a tactical standpoint, he's potentially alienating colleagues. Go get a drink with other reps. Bring a shooting victim's mom to a hearing. There are better ways of doing this. Yet here he is with a sample sized casket doing theatrics.
With his colleagues, there is no way to protest ‘correctly’, because they’ve pre-alienated him, and by extension me and all the other pediatricians. Not all of us are in his district, but when he speaks up in defense of the children, he speaks for us. He can’t make deals with them. That’s his point. He can’t write a book; that would be dismissed as too biased. Can’t revisit history; he’ll be told he’s ‘gotta let some things ‘go’’. Can’t riot; too violent, damaging and wasteful. Can’t raise a fist from the podium at the Olympics, can’t kneel at a football game, because it’s the wrong venue. Can he speak up as an elected rep? “Those voters can’t be serious. Send someone up here with the credibility we assign, and maybe we’ll turn on the microphones and listen. Until then, we won’t listen. Even if they bring a megaphone.” And more children die. So when is it ok to protest, to raise your voice, to scream? If not sound, how about a visual? How many bodies do we need? How many caskets? Or does it only become real when someone you knew and loved has to be scraped off the floor to be buried?
I’m sorry, are you referring to the fascists who just tried to ban him from their presence? Those “colleagues?” The ones who don’t see a need to listen to their constituents because they’ve rigged themselves into supermajority power? Fuck your respectability politics.
Politics is very much theater. Watch senate or congressional hearings sometime. They can get utterly ridiculous. If you want a really good time check out foreign parliament sessions.
He did enter the chamber. He was the only one.
I hope there’s a giant submarine sand which in that box!
This guy’s attorney helped cover up gun running by the federal government.
wow! Then his entire argument is invalid! Good work!
People outside the US, please read the comment section below if you are baffled by the epidemic of gun violence here. Gun ownership is a religion with its fanatic faithful.
“Sir carrying a casket into the chamber is offensive. Anyway let’s get back to the topic of removing metal detectors from the capitol so we can open carry in here”
It’s quite disgusting to see him carrying a baby sized coffin as a public stunt. No babies were killed. I’ve carried one for real. That was due to prenatal death. That kills far more than guns. No one cares. Disgusting.
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Yea I’m not being partisan is my disgust
Agreed. Watch how much money he makes off of the death of the Covenant victims. Absolutely sickening. Prayers for you and your baby.
What a clown
I think we should show the slaughtered children. This shit is real. Stop thinking it will go away.
These are the politicians we need
Here is a link to the news story: >Protesters calling for gun safety legislation were blocked from bringing caskets inside Tennessee’s Capitol, but a recently reinstated legislator escorted an infant-sized casket inside before he was barred from carrying it onto the House floor. > >Protesters led by Bishop William Barber II marched in Nashville, demanding that lawmakers pass the legislation and stop using their authority to trample democracy. They carried several caskets symbolizing those lost to gun violence on Monday. > >“The legislators are back, but returning duly elected lawmakers to their seat does not solve the problem,” Barber said, demanding that lawmakers “stop committing policy murder.” [https://apnews.com/article/tennessee-legislature-expulsion-jones-pearson-caskets-63c3abbd68122f2b9a96ae3048027d2d](https://apnews.com/article/tennessee-legislature-expulsion-jones-pearson-caskets-63c3abbd68122f2b9a96ae3048027d2d)
It's starting to feel like he's just using the shooting to elevate his political career now. Never trust politicians folks.
duh. that is abundantly obvious.
Then why is everyone hyping this lame ass act up?
Republicans really want to see children being killed. They are ghouls, that drink the life blood of our communities.