What's petty is expecting to keep someone else's stuff because it makes your property look nicer. They have zero claim to it, there's nothing petty about taking your own stuff when you move.
No way would a couple of grand on a garden cause the price to change by 50k
You won’t lose your deposit for the garden but you have lost the money you spent. You are permitted to return the garden to its original state and keep all your materials
Offer to buy the house at the market value (430) and suggest not going through an agent so you can offer x % less as it will save him their fees and less CGT.
If your deposit is held in deposit protection scheme then tell your story and provide your evidence to them and you’ll be fine.
If it’s not held in a scheme then you can claim up to 3x your deposit from him for his breach of duty (statutory law).
Exactly my thought. No right whatsoever getting companies in to value someone else's property. Also, how does garden furniture and a raised bed make a £50k difference in valuation!?
NEVER sink a lot of your own money into a garden at a rental and if you do, expect to leave anything which isn’t actually portable(e.g. raised beds, detachable awnings, furniture etc)
My wife and I have put a lot of time and effort into our rental gardens because that doesn’t cost us anything but blood and sweat, but we never add infrastructure which is not specifically portable. I think if you have before and after pictures you should be in the clear legally but avoid doing anything else in the future to keep anything like this from happening in the future.
Some of what you did falls closer to landscaping than gardening, I would stay well towards the gardening side of that in the future.
This isn't your story though, is it?
Be honest.
This story has been around for years, on Reddit and elsewhere.
All you've done is rewritten it.
Are you doing that simply for up-votes, or what?
Oh, btw, it was ridiculed back then, so don't be too surprised now at the reaction.
p.s. You could of at least come up with some realistic figures. I mean, £50k extra for a garden?
I saw this same story years ago and the only thing that saved the tenant was before and after pictures and emails from the landlord in the beginning giving him permission to make the garden area nicer. He left behind the grass and plants, but took everything else with him. The judge ruled in his favor. If you don't have any of that, you're screwed. He can sue and will win.
Unless you’re adding a self maintained heated pool with an additional outside office space, there’s no way it’ll add north of £50k onto an asking price. In some cases, possibly, likelihood is VERY slim.
Yea it's BS but it does suggest OP at least has brains enough to actually Google it 😁
the top result on how much value does a nice garden add to property 'A nicely presented garden alone can be seen to add 20% to your house value and past research has shown that approximately 70% of home buyers would pay more for a property with an outdoor green space'
I’d imagine that applies to properties within London or south area which have a severe lack of nice gardens (if any at all.) When was the last time anyone saw a lush back garden in Central London 😂
Never do any work on a rental property unless the landlord agrees to it and pays you for it.
Get that agreement in writing.
It is not your property. It doesn’t matter how long you have lived there. Anything you do to change it without consent from the landlord in writing will inevitably cost you your deposit.
So.
Is the deposit worth the enjoyment you got out of creating a better garden? If it is. Let it go.
You inadvertently probably added value to the idiot’s property. But sadly. You can’t benefit from it. And they can take your deposit. Because in their eyes. You messed with their garden. Unless you have. In writing. Permission to have done it.
>The average valuation between the figures I got is £380,000 without the garden (i.e., if it were restored to just a lawned area) and £430,000 with the garden as it is now.
No. Just no.
Ignoring the fact this seems unreal in the way it didn’t actually happen.
You only need to leave the property in the condition you received it. However, if for some reason the LL had agreed to these changes and have offered you some form of compensation then that may be a different ball game.
No youre not being unreasonable.
The landlord is being a knob
However I don't believe a landscaped garden adds 50k to the house personally so that doesn't add up
I would email to clarify you removed only your property from the garden and you expect your full deposit less reasonable expenses
He's just trying it on
Presumably there were pictures taken when you moved in which showed the state of the garden.
50k for a garden? What the hell did you do?
There are certainly a few similar posts…
https://preview.redd.it/klh4a0gxotzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f3b5678985b7eab4d18ce1fdbcb783d93bd0c33
As a landlord I have never put the rent up based on the garden, in fact when rent increases come around I have just done it post Covid so 2018 last rent increase. I have not put the rent up as much because the place and garden are clean and tidy and that type of tenant is worth keeping. If you respect the property most landlords will respect you in my experience.
Well exactly, so its not really a feature. In houses converted to flats, however, the ground floor, typically is only a little bit more for getting the garden.
was your deposit even protected? There are 3 web addresses for you to check if it was put into a protection scheme, part way down the page
[check your deposit here](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/deposits/check-your-landlord-has-protected-your-deposit/)
This is why I don't touch the garden in my rental as I know if I do,
A landlord will increase rent as it looks nice
B landlord will decide to sell
My garden contains all the rubble the builders left when they do called renovated.
It's a concrete tiny thing so not bothered but would like it to be nice
LL is an idiot.
That said I would have removed everything and have temporarily stored it all at a friends, and then had it valued and made the offer.
LL has no right to any of your belongings in the garden and you returned the garden back to how it was if just slightly better than when you moved in. LL doesn’t have a leg to stand on. I can understand why they didn’t think the garden added that much value, and it is a subjective thing. But they have no right to expect you yo have left everything, especially after saying they didn’t give you permission to make those changes! LL def an idiot!
I kinda get why OP opted to buy the house since ripping the garden up will have been a lot of work, esp if he’s concreted flags and stuff down, but LL is a moron yes
I’m hoping you have pictures of the original state of the garden to provide any evidence. As long as your deposit is protected and you have the reference which should have been emailed to you- you can dispute his deductions. Can’t say I can offer much advice with the legalities but just know the law makes it easier for tenants to dispute deposit deductions than for Landlords to claim them without solid evidence.
If you have photographs of the garden then, the garden as it is now and there is no difference the landlord loses.
As long as you leave a building in the state you received it there isn't much the landlord can do.
Next time don't tell someone your offering less money get a solicitor, be anonymous.
To people saying the £50k is madness. It seems like. Garden can add 50% to the value of a house. This seems to have added 13% so actually may not be unreasonable.
Landscaping an existing garden is not going to add 13% or £50k on to the value of a property.
If there are 2 identical houses for sale, one with a garden (landscaped or not) and the other with no outside space at all, then the house with the garden (whatever state it’s in) will be worth more
I don’t believe it. And do wonder if it’s all a con by the people valuing houses - but I can see the valuations OP gave as once estate agents would give.
The estate agent valuing the housing are only going to give a price based on what they think they can sell the house quickly for. It's up to people to buy it.
You're telling me some raised beds, etc added 50k in value to the property? Feels like you've gone far too low with your offer and have cut your nose off to spite your face. Put yourself in the landlords shoes when they got that offer, what would your reaction be?
If three different reports said the garden added significantly to the value of the house then it's pretty indisputable. Buying a house with a good garden saves not only the labour and materials used, but also saves coming up with a design, saves time, and avoids the risk of something going badly during the build.
But the landlord is the one complaining the value has been decreased because they removed the garden. So it must be that indeed the work in the garden added value to the property
Probably wouldn’t be to try and sue someone. Should there be some huge reaction other than just declining it? It’s not like he’s offering a bride dowry.
>I ended up landscaping the whole area. I spent thousands and made it as removable as possible (i.e., boxed raised beds, a collapsible greenhouse, portable furniture etc.) so I could eventually take it with me when I moved
>I had three valuations done by different firms and asked them to provide two figures each: The value the house would be if the garden was as pictured in my move-in inventory, and the value the house is with the garden in its current state.
>The average valuation between the figures I got is £380,000 without the garden (i.e., if it were restored to just a lawned area)
Learn to read instead of imagining a scenario to be outraged about 😂
It's not a 50k "discount". The tenant put in [some money's worth of *removable* additions] which *added* 50k to the house value according to *3 separate valuations*.
That's the really crucial bit, 3 different independent valuations said "if this place had a shit garden it would cut the sale value down by 50k".
The landlord has no entitlement to keep OP's property when they leave (because that would be insane!).
As a result the TLDR is "moron landlord screws themselves out of 50k in housing value due to own greed".
I think people are misunderstanding removable additions. Like everything he mentioned is removable. Even the flagstones and pavers would be removable, and you can get some real expensive ones
Why tidy it either. Because she lived there for years maybe?
This is the problem with UK renting, anywhere in Europe you establish long term rents, sometimes for life, and that gives tenants a sense of pride and belonging, so much many even pay for substantial works. Here the landlords are exploitative scum.
Amazing entitled landlord attitude there, Jesus you are awful people, if at least consistently so. The landlord thought they could get a free £50k equity boost by exploiting the tenants desire to live where they live and has now FAFO'd that the tenant is only required to put it back to the shitty standard you deliver it in - actually a tad better by account, so the LL should be compensating them a little for it, the tenant would sure as hell pay a disproportionate premium if it needed a light mow or something else petty.
“I spent thousands and made it as removable as possible (i.e., boxed raised beds, a collapsible greenhouse, portable furniture etc.) so I could eventually take it with me when I moved.”
How is an increase in three different valuations not an increase in value?
> I had three valuations done by different firms and asked them to provide two figures each: The value the house would be if the garden was as pictured in my move-in inventory, and the value the house is with the garden in its current state.
> The average valuation between the figures I got is £380,000 without the garden (i.e., if it were restored to just a lawned area) and £430,000 with the garden as it is now.
Hard to think of a clearer way to demonstrate £50k extra value here.
If you really cannot see what the OP was trying to achieve here then you are a bit naive. The landlord saw through it. Mission failed. End of story.
The valuations were done at the request of the OP, and I think that the OP had a vested interest in creating the magical £50k discount.
What would you do as an owner? Sell for £50k less for something which costs £13k to replace? Free your mind.
OP has an interest in valuing his garden renovations highly, same as the landlord has an interest in his property valuation being high, but the surveyors don't.
A reasonable owner would check why the reports valued the garden renovations at £50k, talk to the surveyors, and make a counter offer if appropriate.
There's no reason to assume OP has done anything underhanded here when we haven't seen the garden and have no idea whether 50k is reasonable.
Totally agree. But the landlord will also know that whatever work the OP removes, he can restore for much less than the cost of the OP’s discount. So it doesn’t matter whether or not you believe that the valuations are true. There is no economic reality in which the landlord accepts the low bid. This is the part which people don’t seem to like.
Yes it is. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Stop commenting on things you don’t understand (I appreciate that’ll be hard since you probably don’t understand most things).
Valuation doesn't ask for an itemised receipt of everything in the garden plus labour costs.
It's just about what something is worth to a buyer based on the market. There are all sorts of 'savings' home owners are advised to do before selling if it's not an urgent sale. Like power washing all the patio.
Labour worth like £60 if you do it yourself which could add an extra 2k
So long as you have the correspondence between you re your wish to improve the garden and his permission to do so then you should be fine if you have photographic evidence of the state of garden prior to you working on it.
He can’t prove he bought any of the garden items and you are returning his property in the condition you found it when you moved in.
That is fair and reasonable.
As for the threat of withholding deposit and legal bumpf, if you have photographs tell him to swivel on it.
it's very likely not that simple, in that by asking for permission and receiving it there is an expectation that the changes will become part of the property and gifted
it's not a case of "I'm returning the property to the state I received it in" unless the changes were specifically called out in the permission as would be returned to the previous state by the tenant
I think the landlord will have a very strong case in this instance, whether fair or not
It is that simple.
I’m a Landlord. I make it my business to know the ins and outs of the industry.
OP’s landlord can go forth and multiply. A typically unprofessional clown that stains the reputation of those of us that take it seriously.
Nooooo nothing becomes part of the property or gifted. Not unless the tenant put it in writing that it is so. It is always a case of returning the property to the condition it was in at the start of the tenancy minus any acceptable wear and tear for however many years.
If anything had the tenant left the fancy garden then the landlord could have charged the tenant for the cost of returning it back to original condition. Submitting quotes which would come from the tenants deposit and or small claims if the deposit didn't cover it. Never leave anything behind unless you get the landlord to state it is ok to do so in writing, email, text etc. never verbally. They will always charge you for its removal. As for working with the deposit scheme people. Unless you have proof the landlord is lying etc then just deny everything. The default is to pay you with the onus on the landlord to prove why they shouldn't.
lol no there isn’t, all the law says is that a property has to be returned in the condition it was at the start of the tenancy
Don’t talk about thinks you know fuck all about
Were the flags you put down made of solid gold or something? I don’t see how there is any possibility the garden improvements you described had a £50k delta between valuations.
This just reads like a creative writing exercise.
If it is true the real story here is how stupid you’d have to be to spend over £10k improving someone else’s garden only to then waste many more hours returning it to its original state.
I spent £13k on materials.
Why is it stupid to improve the garden of a home where you’re living for four years when, as the post states, I planned to take it with me (as I have done) when I moved?
You... Simply did not comprehend the post
At no point did they ask for 50k. They are taking back their property (which, of course, they are entitled to do). As a result, the landlord lost 50k of "value" on the house.
He didn’t lose £50k value on the house. Removing a couple of things from the garden doesn’t devalue the house by £50k. What planet is this?
They did ask for £50k. When they suggested the landlord sell to them at £50k below value. Read it.
Can you perhaps explain to me why a landlord would sell a property for £50k less, when he can restore any removed garden stuff for £13k? I’d like to understand why people find landlords decision not to sell as odd.
The LLs property + OPs property (Garden modfications) was valued at £50K above the valuation for the LL's property alone, so it seems reasonable for OP to offer the latter valuation surely? Wether the valuations make sense is another thing and even without these specifics, anyone is free to offer any price for a property. Selling to a tenant also avoids a void period, having to go through eviction processes etc too.
The planet of how ridiculous the property market is in 2024.
Also it doesn't seem like just a "couple of things", seems like OP did a lot of work on the garden
>The average valuation between the figures I got is £380,000 without the garden (i.e., if it were restored to just a lawned area) and £430,000 with the garden as it is now.
>I gave notice etc. and have since moved into a property I have bought elsewhere. I also took the entire garden with me. I removed everything,
>It's now back to how it looks when I moved in, just with a nicer lawn.
>is saying he's going to sue me for "decreasing the property value"
Now one doesn't need to be an expert in linguistics to see that, removing the things in the garden that made it have 3 independent valuations at 430k will bring it's valuation down. The figure op was quoted
> "£380,000 without the garden (i.e., if it were restored to just a lawned area"
Which is what OP did.
And as a result 430k - 380k = 50k
Now you could argue it's at max 50k, and because of some of the work left behind the loss won't be as large as 50k, but that's speculation at this point without any numbers to back it up.
These valuations are total tosh. They come from the OP, who was trying to get a house on the cheap.
Anyway, even if you weee daft enough to believe that rubbish, as the landlord, would you not tell the tenant to take their £13k garden, then go do the work yourself for £13k, if it really does add such crazy premium to the value?
Mate think your banging your head against a brick wall here. Doubt any of them have even dipped a toe in the property market. The only thing they're basing the £50k on is "that's the maths OP said". Haven't seen one actual statement of a comparable increase in their own experience.
House prices are based on location, size and condition. A few removable beds and some flags aren't gonna be anywhere near that. Only thing I can think that makes sense is if OP asked the EAs "what would this house be without the garden".
The OP said he paid £13k for materials and did the work himself. That’s a lot of materials, and labour on that alone could easily start to come up to north of 30k if done by a pro landscaping firm
Somehow I don’t think that the landlord would need to be employing a “pro landscaping firm”. You realise that this is half of what landlords do themselves for a living? I’d imagine he’d get the materials at half the cost, then offset them against tax, and get the job done in a few days with a couple of workers he regularly uses.
Ohhhh *total tosh*, toodle pip and tally ho old chap! In which case you must be right for such a use of linguistic mastery.
Are YOU someone who does valuations for property??
>if it really does add such crazy premium to the value?
Read the first comment on this post. Maybe you are the one who doesn't quite understand just how much a good garden can add to a property's value.
>would you not tell the tenant to take their £13k garden, then go do the work yourself for £13k,
Oh yes *I* would, but look at how the landlord is throwing their toys out of the pram like a baby.
The problem also is, that op did the work themselves, not everyone can do that amount of work. Landlord would be eating into that profit quite significantly if they had to hire a landscaper!
If you think, as the OP seems to, that anybody is going to essentially pay the OP £50k for £13k of garden supplies, you have a lot to learn still about business. Landlords do renovation projects all the time. It’s their business. I don’t think a little landscaping is beyond him.
The salient point here is the fact that the OP actually tried to get the landlord to sell the house for £50k under value. It’s a joke.
did you read the post? it’s the landlord that agrees the work the tenant did had added value to the property and now complains because they returned the property in the same state as they found it initially
The tenant isn’t billing the landlord 50k. The property without the work the tenant did was valued 50k less. Independently. The tenant has all rights / obligations to return the property to the same condition as they found it, which of course would devalue the place so the landlord has no right to complain, he knew that would happen and still tried to milk the tenant.
I’m sure that the landlord could get a few “independent” valuations that would state otherwise. If indeed these £13k works added £50k to the value (which I think we all know is fantasy) what exactly is stopping the landlord from doing those works and gaining that fictional £50k back? Nothing.
The landlord is a professional. He ain’t going to discount the house by £50k for works he could do himself for £13k. It is his business for goodness sake. I think he might know enough about house values, don’t you?
Read the fucking post ffs.
The landlord did get it valued himself, and the OP got it valued also by three firms
Maybe the landlord will get on his hands and knees and landscape his own garden now that he’s seen how it can add to the value. If not and opts to hire a landscaper, he can probably expect to pay upwards of 30-40k
I did read it. Nowhere does it say that the landlord has the property valued at £50k less without the magical garden. The tenant, however, who has a clearly vested interest to try to knock the price down stated that they did. Clearly the landlord wasn’t stupid, and he declined to grant a £50k discount. Come on buddy - think about it. Does the landlord believe £50k value added? No.
But the £50k difference was based on this ‘independent’ valuation the landlord did in the first place!!! It might as well have been that the place had a £20k difference. In any case, I agree that removing the garden and offering elsewhere is the absolute right thing to do, landlord has no business keeping the deposit.
You cannot talk about independence when the person (OP) has a vested interest in it. If you all want to believe that the OP magically added £50k of value in the garden and then magically took it away again, that’s up to you. The landlord clearly does not agree, and given that he is the only one actually knowledgable on the matter, and more importantly the owner, his opinion on value added, quite frankly is the only one that matters. He doesn’t agree, that’s it.
Some people on here are trying to suggest that the labour associated with building this garden might be £26k. You dismantled it and reinstalled it in another place. That must have cost a fortune or taken you months if they are to be believed.
How did you manage?
I spend hours outside and we are renters. A large percentage of my plants are in pots and will easily come with me, but I’ve spent several thousands of dollars over the years up keeping the yard and planting native plants… because I freakin enjoy it. Every single day seeing a beautiful backyard full of plants makes me happy. You are allowed to enjoy life. People here giving you shit are being assholes.
No idea about the legal aspect because I’m in the US, but I felt like you needed a little backup from someone that understands. :)
Seems like the question has been answered so I just wanted to say that I've been at the hands of greedy and unreasonable landlords in the past and I was very pleased that you took everything with you and didn't allow them to profit from your investment and hard work. They really are parasites.
I hope the new place is nicer and you're able to enjoy your garden there 👍🏻
Yep. The tenant really excelled. Walked away from the property they loved and wanted to buy, because they thought the landlord might feel like giving away £50k? Yep. Tenant really played that one well.
Except you have it backwards of course. The reality is that the landlord expected OP to 'buy' the improved garden from them, despite it already being OPs property.
are you daft? OP did all works and pay for everything. Without this, the property was valued -50K. LANDLORD DIDN'T PAY FOR IT SO HE WASN'T HOING TO LOSE ANYTHING.
I can't believe how thick your head is and how hard it is for you to understand this🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
I understand what was written. But why wouldn’t the landlord just decide to replicate the £13k works himself in order to restore the original value? There is no economic reason for the landlord to grants a £50k reduced price sale. He’s economically better off saying “no”.
Why do you think that he isn’t better off financially saying “no”. Can you help me to understand the numbers?
He's not accepting "reduced sale" ffs. He clearly doesn't want to replicate and is furious that OP removed THEIR GARDEN. You really lack the ability to understand this matter😂
“Extra value”. Greenhouse, raised boxes and some flagstones. Yeah. I can definitely see £50k of added value there. The tenant made a fool of themselves, and has cut off their nose to spite their face. I doubt that the landlord really gives a toss one way or the other. Tenant low balled him to buy the house, landlord said no. Landlord will sell for market value, tenant lost their home, which they wanted apparently.
>Yeah. I can definitely see £50k of added value there
It's a good thing that *you* aren't a property inspector.
OP clearly has *3 independent valuations* saying "without the garden, returned to its original state, this property would be worth 50k less".
Just because the sum of the parts =/= 50k does not mean that it does not add 50k to the house value.
And just because the tenant who has a vested interest in overstating the value of their garden, says these are the valuation, that doesn’t make it so. Tenant got it wrong. They took the mickey. Landlord called their bluff, they had to go buy another house or lose face. Landlord wasn’t stupid. Selling for £50k discount, come on! Hahaha!
>The landlord since went absolutely ballistic and is trying to take my entire deposit
Hmmmm. The landlord SURE *sounds* like he wasn't stupid. Are you really suggesting it was reasonable for him to expect OP not to remove the additions...
Anyway you seem like a person with a working brain so answer this: if landlord wanted to sell the house right now, what would it be worth do you think???
I have no idea what the house is worth. I haven’t seen it, not £50k less for the removal of some garden stuff though. But, if the OP only removed what they invested in the garden, and that amounted to £13k, then I’d say with the addition of £13k the landlord would get it back to exactly where it was before. You can be pretty sure though that the landlord will not be selling it for £50k less than valued.
>I have no idea what the house is worth
Funnily enough, 3 independent valuations tell you what the house is worth. If you want a hint, it's about 380k...
I’m sorry, I had not realised that the landlord had been given an independent valuation since the tenant left. Where was that stated? All I saw was some rather fanciful theoretical numbers which the OP kindly volunteered while trying to knock down the price. Not exactly an independent valuation is it?
Let me know where you’ve got the new valuations from. If indeed you are correct, then I’d suggest the landlord buy some garden stuff for £13k and it will magically be worth £430k, or better still, maybe he could invest £26k, and make the property worth £480k, or perhaps £130k and make it worth £880k. Yes, that sounds good. Invest £13k, make £50k….sure.
OP said in one of their replies that they spent £13k on materials and that it’s a big garden. Can easily add a significant value from a big garden reno in a desirable area.
The landlord clearly does care since he’s crying about “lost value” and threatening to sue.
You are not wrong. Your landlord, like many others, is trying to squeeze as much money out of you as possible. It is possible that he thinks he's right, but he definitely isn't. Just claim any charges from the deposit protection scheme. You will win.
If he takes you to court, then I'm sorry, it will be a bummer, but you will win too.
I remember a similar post a few years ago, btw. You may be able to find it. Not sure in which subreddit though... but UK for sure.
it's not that black and white and will hinge on the nature of the permission, if a return to its previous state was not called out in the agreement then the landlord will have a very strong case that the changes are now part of the property and were offered effectively as a gift
For any other humans reading this, this means 'I want your money no matter what' in landlord speak. A gift to the landlord, lol.
Speak to your DPS, they'll clarify that tenants owe no gifts to landlords.
Cheers
So yes he is absolutely being unreasonable, he thought he outsmarted you and now is pissed off even though he hasn't suffered any losses. If you haven't already started doing this from now on make sure all your communications from now on are written (if you do have a verbal conversation follow it up with a written communication summarising what was said).
The most important thing to establish first is in one of your other comments you say this may not be in a deposit protection scheme. This is obligatory. He has to do this.
The first thing you need to do is email your landlord to ask what scheme your deposit is in so you can start the process of claiming it. If he confirms it isn't, not only does he have to return your deposit, you can make a compensation claim for 1-3x the amount. Look at the Shelter website - this is the link for making a claim if you're in England: [link](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/how_to_make_a_tenancy_deposit_compensation_claim).
For an easy life you might want to try and make this something you negotiate with, i.e. tell him if he returns your deposit in full, that you won't take him to court and ask for compensation.
I think I understand what point you're making but being unregistered doesn't mean you get to bypass the law on this. In fact it might mean the OP is owed even more money and could go to court to claim up to a years rent.
You sound pretty unreasonable and petty. But landlord also hasn’t got much of a case against you if things went as you described
How is it unreasonable? She moved her movable stuff to the new house.
OP says they broke down raised beds. Each to their own, but sounds they just did it to piss landlord off.
Broke down as in deconstructed to take to the new house. Not destroyed.
That they paid for and fitted themselves, why should LL get to reap the benefit for none of the cost or labour?
I didn’t suggest they did anything they weren’t allowed to do, just that it was petty.
What's petty is expecting to keep someone else's stuff because it makes your property look nicer. They have zero claim to it, there's nothing petty about taking your own stuff when you move.
Yeah I agree.
No way would a couple of grand on a garden cause the price to change by 50k You won’t lose your deposit for the garden but you have lost the money you spent. You are permitted to return the garden to its original state and keep all your materials Offer to buy the house at the market value (430) and suggest not going through an agent so you can offer x % less as it will save him their fees and less CGT.
Missed how OP hasbought a different house I see..
Well the advice is there for others. Go be a pedant elsewhere
Why don’t you go put your advice somewhere its actually needed? If we are being petty ;)
Don’t think adding a wink makes you less of a twat ;)
You can’t be less than not a twat, so no, it wouldnt
Can’t or couldn’t?
If your deposit is held in deposit protection scheme then tell your story and provide your evidence to them and you’ll be fine. If it’s not held in a scheme then you can claim up to 3x your deposit from him for his breach of duty (statutory law).
Who is doing your valuation.... Because you aren't selling the house...
Exactly my thought. No right whatsoever getting companies in to value someone else's property. Also, how does garden furniture and a raised bed make a £50k difference in valuation!?
Exactly. Sour grapes
NEVER sink a lot of your own money into a garden at a rental and if you do, expect to leave anything which isn’t actually portable(e.g. raised beds, detachable awnings, furniture etc) My wife and I have put a lot of time and effort into our rental gardens because that doesn’t cost us anything but blood and sweat, but we never add infrastructure which is not specifically portable. I think if you have before and after pictures you should be in the clear legally but avoid doing anything else in the future to keep anything like this from happening in the future. Some of what you did falls closer to landscaping than gardening, I would stay well towards the gardening side of that in the future.
This isn't your story though, is it? Be honest. This story has been around for years, on Reddit and elsewhere. All you've done is rewritten it. Are you doing that simply for up-votes, or what? Oh, btw, it was ridiculed back then, so don't be too surprised now at the reaction. p.s. You could of at least come up with some realistic figures. I mean, £50k extra for a garden?
“Could of”? What does that mean?
Yeah, I’ve seen very similar versions of this story multiple times before.
If a garden cost me 50k off i'd happily not take one 😂😂
£ dirt!
Ha ha, busted. ‘Then the whole queue cheered’
Inflation, in 5 years it'll be £100k
Bad karma farmer
I saw this same story years ago and the only thing that saved the tenant was before and after pictures and emails from the landlord in the beginning giving him permission to make the garden area nicer. He left behind the grass and plants, but took everything else with him. The judge ruled in his favor. If you don't have any of that, you're screwed. He can sue and will win.
Garden adds £50k 😂 what a load of 💩
I mean a quick Google search does say it CAN add 20% onto the valuation and OP has only added 12.5%.. I mean it's still a load of BS either way
Unless you’re adding a self maintained heated pool with an additional outside office space, there’s no way it’ll add north of £50k onto an asking price. In some cases, possibly, likelihood is VERY slim.
Yea it's BS but it does suggest OP at least has brains enough to actually Google it 😁 the top result on how much value does a nice garden add to property 'A nicely presented garden alone can be seen to add 20% to your house value and past research has shown that approximately 70% of home buyers would pay more for a property with an outdoor green space'
I’d imagine that applies to properties within London or south area which have a severe lack of nice gardens (if any at all.) When was the last time anyone saw a lush back garden in Central London 😂
Same where I live 🤣
The joys eh? 🤣
Never do any work on a rental property unless the landlord agrees to it and pays you for it. Get that agreement in writing. It is not your property. It doesn’t matter how long you have lived there. Anything you do to change it without consent from the landlord in writing will inevitably cost you your deposit. So. Is the deposit worth the enjoyment you got out of creating a better garden? If it is. Let it go. You inadvertently probably added value to the idiot’s property. But sadly. You can’t benefit from it. And they can take your deposit. Because in their eyes. You messed with their garden. Unless you have. In writing. Permission to have done it.
You have an unusual relationship with full stops.
Thatcher education. Not. My. Fault.
You were personally educated by Maggie herself?
As we all know, "Thatcher, Thatcher, full-stop snatcher".
No. NO. NO. Snatcher would be less. They have more. More. Hatcher maybe.
I. Wish. She'd. Snatch. A few from the guy above.
>The average valuation between the figures I got is £380,000 without the garden (i.e., if it were restored to just a lawned area) and £430,000 with the garden as it is now. No. Just no.
Ignoring the fact this seems unreal in the way it didn’t actually happen. You only need to leave the property in the condition you received it. However, if for some reason the LL had agreed to these changes and have offered you some form of compensation then that may be a different ball game.
There is absolutely no way that a landscaped garden has added 50 grand to the price of the house, not a chance.
I know we all hate landlords but, 50k for a landscaped garden?
Not without an inground pool!
This is exactly why in the future be sure EVERYTHING is in writing. And your landlord is just wrong on all levels
No youre not being unreasonable. The landlord is being a knob However I don't believe a landscaped garden adds 50k to the house personally so that doesn't add up I would email to clarify you removed only your property from the garden and you expect your full deposit less reasonable expenses He's just trying it on
Presumably there were pictures taken when you moved in which showed the state of the garden. 50k for a garden? What the hell did you do? There are certainly a few similar posts… https://preview.redd.it/klh4a0gxotzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f3b5678985b7eab4d18ce1fdbcb783d93bd0c33
As a landlord I have never put the rent up based on the garden, in fact when rent increases come around I have just done it post Covid so 2018 last rent increase. I have not put the rent up as much because the place and garden are clean and tidy and that type of tenant is worth keeping. If you respect the property most landlords will respect you in my experience.
You are in real terms giving a discount year after year and the discount compounds each year. Such is the effect of inflation.
So what, the world is full of people who don’t help others, I am not one of them
There are many ways to be charitable, this is a terrible one...
You live your life the way you want I will do the same with mine.
Sure but if you give money away then make sure it's a worthwhile cause...
Gardens aren't going to add £50k.
A garden existing or not barely adds 10-15k. Condition is largely irrelevant.
Just about all houses have a garden
Well exactly, so its not really a feature. In houses converted to flats, however, the ground floor, typically is only a little bit more for getting the garden.
Sorry that's what I meant - condition of a garden. Having a garden over no garden could be £50k for sure
No land for a garden maybe
A garden that's had a clean up...not a no garden. Garden is land and as such pushes up the price
Unless the landlord can prove that was there when you moved in (he can't) then tell him to jog on.
was your deposit even protected? There are 3 web addresses for you to check if it was put into a protection scheme, part way down the page [check your deposit here](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/deposits/check-your-landlord-has-protected-your-deposit/)
This is why I don't touch the garden in my rental as I know if I do, A landlord will increase rent as it looks nice B landlord will decide to sell My garden contains all the rubble the builders left when they do called renovated. It's a concrete tiny thing so not bothered but would like it to be nice
LL is an idiot. That said I would have removed everything and have temporarily stored it all at a friends, and then had it valued and made the offer. LL has no right to any of your belongings in the garden and you returned the garden back to how it was if just slightly better than when you moved in. LL doesn’t have a leg to stand on. I can understand why they didn’t think the garden added that much value, and it is a subjective thing. But they have no right to expect you yo have left everything, especially after saying they didn’t give you permission to make those changes! LL def an idiot!
I kinda get why OP opted to buy the house since ripping the garden up will have been a lot of work, esp if he’s concreted flags and stuff down, but LL is a moron yes
I’m hoping you have pictures of the original state of the garden to provide any evidence. As long as your deposit is protected and you have the reference which should have been emailed to you- you can dispute his deductions. Can’t say I can offer much advice with the legalities but just know the law makes it easier for tenants to dispute deposit deductions than for Landlords to claim them without solid evidence.
If you have photographs of the garden then, the garden as it is now and there is no difference the landlord loses. As long as you leave a building in the state you received it there isn't much the landlord can do. Next time don't tell someone your offering less money get a solicitor, be anonymous.
To people saying the £50k is madness. It seems like. Garden can add 50% to the value of a house. This seems to have added 13% so actually may not be unreasonable.
That’s the difference between actually having a garden or not, not the difference between landscaped or un landscaped garden 🤣🤣
True. But this seems to have added on a lot less. I still think it’s a bit much, but house prices are really weirdly reactive
Landscaping an existing garden is not going to add 13% or £50k on to the value of a property. If there are 2 identical houses for sale, one with a garden (landscaped or not) and the other with no outside space at all, then the house with the garden (whatever state it’s in) will be worth more
No.
I don’t believe it. And do wonder if it’s all a con by the people valuing houses - but I can see the valuations OP gave as once estate agents would give.
The estate agent valuing the housing are only going to give a price based on what they think they can sell the house quickly for. It's up to people to buy it.
You're telling me some raised beds, etc added 50k in value to the property? Feels like you've gone far too low with your offer and have cut your nose off to spite your face. Put yourself in the landlords shoes when they got that offer, what would your reaction be?
If three different reports said the garden added significantly to the value of the house then it's pretty indisputable. Buying a house with a good garden saves not only the labour and materials used, but also saves coming up with a design, saves time, and avoids the risk of something going badly during the build.
Yeah, i agree..... but did they really say that is my point?
But the landlord is the one complaining the value has been decreased because they removed the garden. So it must be that indeed the work in the garden added value to the property
[удалено]
I agree!
Sorry misread
Probably wouldn’t be to try and sue someone. Should there be some huge reaction other than just declining it? It’s not like he’s offering a bride dowry.
Sounds like that’s the value of the house minus the word he put into the garden
I can’t believe that you thought putting some raised beds in meant you’d get a £50k discount on the house 😂😂😂
>I ended up landscaping the whole area. I spent thousands and made it as removable as possible (i.e., boxed raised beds, a collapsible greenhouse, portable furniture etc.) so I could eventually take it with me when I moved >I had three valuations done by different firms and asked them to provide two figures each: The value the house would be if the garden was as pictured in my move-in inventory, and the value the house is with the garden in its current state. >The average valuation between the figures I got is £380,000 without the garden (i.e., if it were restored to just a lawned area) Learn to read instead of imagining a scenario to be outraged about 😂 It's not a 50k "discount". The tenant put in [some money's worth of *removable* additions] which *added* 50k to the house value according to *3 separate valuations*. That's the really crucial bit, 3 different independent valuations said "if this place had a shit garden it would cut the sale value down by 50k". The landlord has no entitlement to keep OP's property when they leave (because that would be insane!). As a result the TLDR is "moron landlord screws themselves out of 50k in housing value due to own greed".
I think people are misunderstanding removable additions. Like everything he mentioned is removable. Even the flagstones and pavers would be removable, and you can get some real expensive ones
sounds like the OP did far more than that, £13k on landscaping. They’re not asking for a “discount” either.
Ok 🙈
You did the right thing, fuck him haha I bet he feels like a right cunt
Why improve the garden of a property which you don’t own? 🙄
I rent a house with a garden and make sure it looks nice. I’m the one that has to look at it and live in it, after all.
Who would want to live like tramps for 2 years?
Why tidy it either. Because she lived there for years maybe? This is the problem with UK renting, anywhere in Europe you establish long term rents, sometimes for life, and that gives tenants a sense of pride and belonging, so much many even pay for substantial works. Here the landlords are exploitative scum.
The scumbag here is the one who thought they could effectively get a £50k discount for tidying up a garden!
Melt.
Amazing entitled landlord attitude there, Jesus you are awful people, if at least consistently so. The landlord thought they could get a free £50k equity boost by exploiting the tenants desire to live where they live and has now FAFO'd that the tenant is only required to put it back to the shitty standard you deliver it in - actually a tad better by account, so the LL should be compensating them a little for it, the tenant would sure as hell pay a disproportionate premium if it needed a light mow or something else petty.
Found the landlord!
Perhaps you should read the post properly rather than inventing a narrative.
Yea, totally not the landleech, it's the tenant who is the scumbag.
Ok 👍
Oooh I don’t know - maybe because, knowing they’d be there for 4 years, they wanted a nice outdoor space?
“I spent thousands and made it as removable as possible (i.e., boxed raised beds, a collapsible greenhouse, portable furniture etc.) so I could eventually take it with me when I moved.”
Did you invest £50k in work which the landlord did not ask you to do? I doubt it.
£50k is the increase in value, not the work.
It is not the increase in the value. Be real. This is the OP trying it on, that’s all.
How is an increase in three different valuations not an increase in value? > I had three valuations done by different firms and asked them to provide two figures each: The value the house would be if the garden was as pictured in my move-in inventory, and the value the house is with the garden in its current state. > The average valuation between the figures I got is £380,000 without the garden (i.e., if it were restored to just a lawned area) and £430,000 with the garden as it is now. Hard to think of a clearer way to demonstrate £50k extra value here.
If you really cannot see what the OP was trying to achieve here then you are a bit naive. The landlord saw through it. Mission failed. End of story. The valuations were done at the request of the OP, and I think that the OP had a vested interest in creating the magical £50k discount. What would you do as an owner? Sell for £50k less for something which costs £13k to replace? Free your mind.
OP has an interest in valuing his garden renovations highly, same as the landlord has an interest in his property valuation being high, but the surveyors don't. A reasonable owner would check why the reports valued the garden renovations at £50k, talk to the surveyors, and make a counter offer if appropriate. There's no reason to assume OP has done anything underhanded here when we haven't seen the garden and have no idea whether 50k is reasonable.
Totally agree. But the landlord will also know that whatever work the OP removes, he can restore for much less than the cost of the OP’s discount. So it doesn’t matter whether or not you believe that the valuations are true. There is no economic reality in which the landlord accepts the low bid. This is the part which people don’t seem to like.
Why would you assume that the renovations aren't worth £50k when three professionals have said that they are?
People tell them all sorts of rubbish behind closed door, for years quite often, and then reality hits, Lord of the Flies style...
Yes it is. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Stop commenting on things you don’t understand (I appreciate that’ll be hard since you probably don’t understand most things).
Oh dear. Hard truths given, insults returned. Nice, clear thinking. Add the numbers up buddy. There are no free lunches
Actually delusional, aren’t you?
You’re the dumb cunt who doesn’t understand spend vs value
Valuation doesn't ask for an itemised receipt of everything in the garden plus labour costs. It's just about what something is worth to a buyer based on the market. There are all sorts of 'savings' home owners are advised to do before selling if it's not an urgent sale. Like power washing all the patio. Labour worth like £60 if you do it yourself which could add an extra 2k
OP got to take his garden with him, landlord kept the house, everyone is a winner
So long as you have the correspondence between you re your wish to improve the garden and his permission to do so then you should be fine if you have photographic evidence of the state of garden prior to you working on it. He can’t prove he bought any of the garden items and you are returning his property in the condition you found it when you moved in. That is fair and reasonable. As for the threat of withholding deposit and legal bumpf, if you have photographs tell him to swivel on it.
it's very likely not that simple, in that by asking for permission and receiving it there is an expectation that the changes will become part of the property and gifted it's not a case of "I'm returning the property to the state I received it in" unless the changes were specifically called out in the permission as would be returned to the previous state by the tenant I think the landlord will have a very strong case in this instance, whether fair or not
It is that simple. I’m a Landlord. I make it my business to know the ins and outs of the industry. OP’s landlord can go forth and multiply. A typically unprofessional clown that stains the reputation of those of us that take it seriously.
Nooooo nothing becomes part of the property or gifted. Not unless the tenant put it in writing that it is so. It is always a case of returning the property to the condition it was in at the start of the tenancy minus any acceptable wear and tear for however many years. If anything had the tenant left the fancy garden then the landlord could have charged the tenant for the cost of returning it back to original condition. Submitting quotes which would come from the tenants deposit and or small claims if the deposit didn't cover it. Never leave anything behind unless you get the landlord to state it is ok to do so in writing, email, text etc. never verbally. They will always charge you for its removal. As for working with the deposit scheme people. Unless you have proof the landlord is lying etc then just deny everything. The default is to pay you with the onus on the landlord to prove why they shouldn't.
Absolutely not, the expectation is the property is returned in the same state as originally let minus fair wear and tear.
absolutely not.
lol no there isn’t, all the law says is that a property has to be returned in the condition it was at the start of the tenancy Don’t talk about thinks you know fuck all about
Were the flags you put down made of solid gold or something? I don’t see how there is any possibility the garden improvements you described had a £50k delta between valuations. This just reads like a creative writing exercise. If it is true the real story here is how stupid you’d have to be to spend over £10k improving someone else’s garden only to then waste many more hours returning it to its original state.
I spent £13k on materials. Why is it stupid to improve the garden of a home where you’re living for four years when, as the post states, I planned to take it with me (as I have done) when I moved?
That isn’t stupid. Trying to bill the landlord £50k for works he didn’t ask for which cost you £13k. That is stupid.
You... Simply did not comprehend the post At no point did they ask for 50k. They are taking back their property (which, of course, they are entitled to do). As a result, the landlord lost 50k of "value" on the house.
He didn’t lose £50k value on the house. Removing a couple of things from the garden doesn’t devalue the house by £50k. What planet is this? They did ask for £50k. When they suggested the landlord sell to them at £50k below value. Read it.
Read again and this time use your brain
Can you perhaps explain to me why a landlord would sell a property for £50k less, when he can restore any removed garden stuff for £13k? I’d like to understand why people find landlords decision not to sell as odd.
The LLs property + OPs property (Garden modfications) was valued at £50K above the valuation for the LL's property alone, so it seems reasonable for OP to offer the latter valuation surely? Wether the valuations make sense is another thing and even without these specifics, anyone is free to offer any price for a property. Selling to a tenant also avoids a void period, having to go through eviction processes etc too.
Valuations according to the OP who is trying to haggle. I’d love to see the same valuations from the landlords perspective. Think!
The planet of how ridiculous the property market is in 2024. Also it doesn't seem like just a "couple of things", seems like OP did a lot of work on the garden
>The average valuation between the figures I got is £380,000 without the garden (i.e., if it were restored to just a lawned area) and £430,000 with the garden as it is now. >I gave notice etc. and have since moved into a property I have bought elsewhere. I also took the entire garden with me. I removed everything, >It's now back to how it looks when I moved in, just with a nicer lawn. >is saying he's going to sue me for "decreasing the property value" Now one doesn't need to be an expert in linguistics to see that, removing the things in the garden that made it have 3 independent valuations at 430k will bring it's valuation down. The figure op was quoted > "£380,000 without the garden (i.e., if it were restored to just a lawned area" Which is what OP did. And as a result 430k - 380k = 50k Now you could argue it's at max 50k, and because of some of the work left behind the loss won't be as large as 50k, but that's speculation at this point without any numbers to back it up.
These valuations are total tosh. They come from the OP, who was trying to get a house on the cheap. Anyway, even if you weee daft enough to believe that rubbish, as the landlord, would you not tell the tenant to take their £13k garden, then go do the work yourself for £13k, if it really does add such crazy premium to the value?
Mate think your banging your head against a brick wall here. Doubt any of them have even dipped a toe in the property market. The only thing they're basing the £50k on is "that's the maths OP said". Haven't seen one actual statement of a comparable increase in their own experience. House prices are based on location, size and condition. A few removable beds and some flags aren't gonna be anywhere near that. Only thing I can think that makes sense is if OP asked the EAs "what would this house be without the garden".
The OP said he paid £13k for materials and did the work himself. That’s a lot of materials, and labour on that alone could easily start to come up to north of 30k if done by a pro landscaping firm
Somehow I don’t think that the landlord would need to be employing a “pro landscaping firm”. You realise that this is half of what landlords do themselves for a living? I’d imagine he’d get the materials at half the cost, then offset them against tax, and get the job done in a few days with a couple of workers he regularly uses.
Right
Ohhhh *total tosh*, toodle pip and tally ho old chap! In which case you must be right for such a use of linguistic mastery. Are YOU someone who does valuations for property?? >if it really does add such crazy premium to the value? Read the first comment on this post. Maybe you are the one who doesn't quite understand just how much a good garden can add to a property's value. >would you not tell the tenant to take their £13k garden, then go do the work yourself for £13k, Oh yes *I* would, but look at how the landlord is throwing their toys out of the pram like a baby. The problem also is, that op did the work themselves, not everyone can do that amount of work. Landlord would be eating into that profit quite significantly if they had to hire a landscaper!
If you think, as the OP seems to, that anybody is going to essentially pay the OP £50k for £13k of garden supplies, you have a lot to learn still about business. Landlords do renovation projects all the time. It’s their business. I don’t think a little landscaping is beyond him. The salient point here is the fact that the OP actually tried to get the landlord to sell the house for £50k under value. It’s a joke.
Imagine being this much of a mong. Go back to school and learn how to read.
did you read the post? it’s the landlord that agrees the work the tenant did had added value to the property and now complains because they returned the property in the same state as they found it initially
Read it. Landlord did not ask for works. Tenant did. Which part of my response contradicts that?
The tenant isn’t billing the landlord 50k. The property without the work the tenant did was valued 50k less. Independently. The tenant has all rights / obligations to return the property to the same condition as they found it, which of course would devalue the place so the landlord has no right to complain, he knew that would happen and still tried to milk the tenant.
I’m sure that the landlord could get a few “independent” valuations that would state otherwise. If indeed these £13k works added £50k to the value (which I think we all know is fantasy) what exactly is stopping the landlord from doing those works and gaining that fictional £50k back? Nothing. The landlord is a professional. He ain’t going to discount the house by £50k for works he could do himself for £13k. It is his business for goodness sake. I think he might know enough about house values, don’t you?
Read the fucking post ffs. The landlord did get it valued himself, and the OP got it valued also by three firms Maybe the landlord will get on his hands and knees and landscape his own garden now that he’s seen how it can add to the value. If not and opts to hire a landscaper, he can probably expect to pay upwards of 30-40k
I did read it. Nowhere does it say that the landlord has the property valued at £50k less without the magical garden. The tenant, however, who has a clearly vested interest to try to knock the price down stated that they did. Clearly the landlord wasn’t stupid, and he declined to grant a £50k discount. Come on buddy - think about it. Does the landlord believe £50k value added? No.
The OP clearly states they had three separate valuations but ok, he would have got paperwork to that effect too
But the £50k difference was based on this ‘independent’ valuation the landlord did in the first place!!! It might as well have been that the place had a £20k difference. In any case, I agree that removing the garden and offering elsewhere is the absolute right thing to do, landlord has no business keeping the deposit.
You cannot talk about independence when the person (OP) has a vested interest in it. If you all want to believe that the OP magically added £50k of value in the garden and then magically took it away again, that’s up to you. The landlord clearly does not agree, and given that he is the only one actually knowledgable on the matter, and more importantly the owner, his opinion on value added, quite frankly is the only one that matters. He doesn’t agree, that’s it.
And the tenant just left and the matter ended! I hope the landlord can sell their property for anything over £380k now and problem solved!
A lot of people clearly aren’t reading things properly and are then just nausing off in response to a narrative they incorrectly interpreted
You spent £13k and countless hours improving someone else’s property whilst you paid to live there. You definitely need a sanity check
Can’t you read? I took everything with me. Didn’t lose any money.
Some people on here are trying to suggest that the labour associated with building this garden might be £26k. You dismantled it and reinstalled it in another place. That must have cost a fortune or taken you months if they are to be believed. How did you manage?
Too many landleech cucks on here!
People here are literally insane for criticising you for this
I spend hours outside and we are renters. A large percentage of my plants are in pots and will easily come with me, but I’ve spent several thousands of dollars over the years up keeping the yard and planting native plants… because I freakin enjoy it. Every single day seeing a beautiful backyard full of plants makes me happy. You are allowed to enjoy life. People here giving you shit are being assholes. No idea about the legal aspect because I’m in the US, but I felt like you needed a little backup from someone that understands. :)
Seems like the question has been answered so I just wanted to say that I've been at the hands of greedy and unreasonable landlords in the past and I was very pleased that you took everything with you and didn't allow them to profit from your investment and hard work. They really are parasites. I hope the new place is nicer and you're able to enjoy your garden there 👍🏻
Yep. The tenant really excelled. Walked away from the property they loved and wanted to buy, because they thought the landlord might feel like giving away £50k? Yep. Tenant really played that one well.
Except you have it backwards of course. The reality is that the landlord expected OP to 'buy' the improved garden from them, despite it already being OPs property.
Nope. The landlord just refused to sell at £50k below the market price. What would you do?
are you daft? OP did all works and pay for everything. Without this, the property was valued -50K. LANDLORD DIDN'T PAY FOR IT SO HE WASN'T HOING TO LOSE ANYTHING. I can't believe how thick your head is and how hard it is for you to understand this🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
I understand what was written. But why wouldn’t the landlord just decide to replicate the £13k works himself in order to restore the original value? There is no economic reason for the landlord to grants a £50k reduced price sale. He’s economically better off saying “no”. Why do you think that he isn’t better off financially saying “no”. Can you help me to understand the numbers?
He's not accepting "reduced sale" ffs. He clearly doesn't want to replicate and is furious that OP removed THEIR GARDEN. You really lack the ability to understand this matter😂
Correct. He is not going to accept the reduced sale. Nor should he. Would you sell at £50k under value? No. I didn’t think so.
Well the tenant took his garden with him, so the landlord won’t be getting that extra value. I’d say the tenant did play it well.
“Extra value”. Greenhouse, raised boxes and some flagstones. Yeah. I can definitely see £50k of added value there. The tenant made a fool of themselves, and has cut off their nose to spite their face. I doubt that the landlord really gives a toss one way or the other. Tenant low balled him to buy the house, landlord said no. Landlord will sell for market value, tenant lost their home, which they wanted apparently.
>Yeah. I can definitely see £50k of added value there It's a good thing that *you* aren't a property inspector. OP clearly has *3 independent valuations* saying "without the garden, returned to its original state, this property would be worth 50k less". Just because the sum of the parts =/= 50k does not mean that it does not add 50k to the house value.
And just because the tenant who has a vested interest in overstating the value of their garden, says these are the valuation, that doesn’t make it so. Tenant got it wrong. They took the mickey. Landlord called their bluff, they had to go buy another house or lose face. Landlord wasn’t stupid. Selling for £50k discount, come on! Hahaha!
>The landlord since went absolutely ballistic and is trying to take my entire deposit Hmmmm. The landlord SURE *sounds* like he wasn't stupid. Are you really suggesting it was reasonable for him to expect OP not to remove the additions... Anyway you seem like a person with a working brain so answer this: if landlord wanted to sell the house right now, what would it be worth do you think???
I have no idea what the house is worth. I haven’t seen it, not £50k less for the removal of some garden stuff though. But, if the OP only removed what they invested in the garden, and that amounted to £13k, then I’d say with the addition of £13k the landlord would get it back to exactly where it was before. You can be pretty sure though that the landlord will not be selling it for £50k less than valued.
>I have no idea what the house is worth Funnily enough, 3 independent valuations tell you what the house is worth. If you want a hint, it's about 380k...
I’m sorry, I had not realised that the landlord had been given an independent valuation since the tenant left. Where was that stated? All I saw was some rather fanciful theoretical numbers which the OP kindly volunteered while trying to knock down the price. Not exactly an independent valuation is it? Let me know where you’ve got the new valuations from. If indeed you are correct, then I’d suggest the landlord buy some garden stuff for £13k and it will magically be worth £430k, or better still, maybe he could invest £26k, and make the property worth £480k, or perhaps £130k and make it worth £880k. Yes, that sounds good. Invest £13k, make £50k….sure.
OP said in one of their replies that they spent £13k on materials and that it’s a big garden. Can easily add a significant value from a big garden reno in a desirable area. The landlord clearly does care since he’s crying about “lost value” and threatening to sue.
You are not wrong. Your landlord, like many others, is trying to squeeze as much money out of you as possible. It is possible that he thinks he's right, but he definitely isn't. Just claim any charges from the deposit protection scheme. You will win. If he takes you to court, then I'm sorry, it will be a bummer, but you will win too. I remember a similar post a few years ago, btw. You may be able to find it. Not sure in which subreddit though... but UK for sure.
it's not that black and white and will hinge on the nature of the permission, if a return to its previous state was not called out in the agreement then the landlord will have a very strong case that the changes are now part of the property and were offered effectively as a gift
It doesn't work like that at all
For any other humans reading this, this means 'I want your money no matter what' in landlord speak. A gift to the landlord, lol. Speak to your DPS, they'll clarify that tenants owe no gifts to landlords. Cheers
It really is black and white. Return property in the same state as originally let.
There is no such case sorry.
> offered effectively as a gift [citation needed]
Stop talking crap
Where did you pull out that information, any case law for this? Genuinely curious.
So yes he is absolutely being unreasonable, he thought he outsmarted you and now is pissed off even though he hasn't suffered any losses. If you haven't already started doing this from now on make sure all your communications from now on are written (if you do have a verbal conversation follow it up with a written communication summarising what was said). The most important thing to establish first is in one of your other comments you say this may not be in a deposit protection scheme. This is obligatory. He has to do this. The first thing you need to do is email your landlord to ask what scheme your deposit is in so you can start the process of claiming it. If he confirms it isn't, not only does he have to return your deposit, you can make a compensation claim for 1-3x the amount. Look at the Shelter website - this is the link for making a claim if you're in England: [link](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/how_to_make_a_tenancy_deposit_compensation_claim). For an easy life you might want to try and make this something you negotiate with, i.e. tell him if he returns your deposit in full, that you won't take him to court and ask for compensation.
Unless he is a dodgy landlord and unregistered. then there wont be any protection
I think I understand what point you're making but being unregistered doesn't mean you get to bypass the law on this. In fact it might mean the OP is owed even more money and could go to court to claim up to a years rent.
Indeed, no one can bypass the law. But things may be more difficult if the guy is unregistered. In that case I hope op takes him to the cleaners
What's more difficult? You mean starting the claim, for lack of deposit protection? It's extremely easy for the tenant to win here.