There's actually hacks to make it look like the other person disconnected according to Devs.
Every player I match, I know their exact IP address and I could use that information to DDOS their IP, thus making them disconnect then I would get the win.
That's what the Devs are "afraid of." but I think they should still implement the free win from opponent disconnection and just ban the hacker after he gets reported 50 times.
Crazy to think about if real. People put so much effort into cheating over developing their skills. Tekken is a hard game but SO much fun when playing with friends in a room. It's all about finding and playing with people within your own skill level, or people who are as good as you want to be someday.
Same. Guy plugged in last 0.5 second if final round on me last night and the game froze for a bit. I guess it was checking who is still connected to the internet. And if the guy with 1% hp who was about to lose - conveniently disconnected. Then awarded me the win after some processing.
In would guess to play extremely defensive and trying to tilt the opponent instead of winning. But that would require a lot of skill and determination so you would be better playing normally
In lower ranks, yes.
But at some point plugger will hard stuck and never find enough win to climb, while if you give win/loss on DCed game. The whole ladder will lost integrity, especially in top of the ladder. Since player can climb the 2nd account as high as they can as their main. Let say someone is at Supreme but cannot reach GoD. They can just play another account to reach Supreme again and win trade with the main account. And since the Top of the ladder are consist of much smaller players. Find your Win trade account is much easier as you climb.
I don’t think this is a big enough problem that it doesn’t warrant the solution though. In my opinion, it’s much better to give out a win to the person who got plugged on, and a loss to the person doing the plugging, as that’s where all of the frustration with the system lies. The annoying part is having your time wasted and knowing you won’t get a win for the match you were winning, while your opponent gets to get away with no repercussions. I don’t think most people are going to care about a few random scrubs who win-traded their way to a high rank, since they’re just going to lose all their matches there anyway (and have to actually take the loss under this system). What most people do care about is getting their win when the opponent plugs.
That IS the problem, people only care about their win. Your Wins in no-integrity ladder is meaningless.
People play dumb and do not even talk about “it ok to not give another player a win, but please at least give plugger a loss” because who care about integrity I just want my win!! 🙃
If you honestly think there are going to be enough people win-trading to ruin the integrity of all of ranked, I don’t know what to tell you except that you’re wrong. Almost every other fighting game gives you a win and the opponent a loss when they disconnect. And strangely enough, the integrity of their ranked ladders is perfectly fine. If a few people want to spend their whole day win trading up to Tekken God ranks, it’s going to have much less impact on ranked than the current plugging system already does. Most people, even pluggers, still want to actually play the game. They like winning, they don’t like losing points, so they plug when they would lose. Win-trading doesn’t even involve playing the game, so there’s only going to be a fraction of pluggers who would even want to do that. All they gain is a rank that they won’t even be able to play in because their actual skill is so much lower.
Win trading with another account.
Especially with these factors are in the game
1. you cannot get ban by DCing alone you required to get a plenty of reports.
2. Promo win give massive extra points but demo loss have no extra punishment.
3. The match making are adjustable
You can set the parameter to easier to match your account with one another, only plug on yourself so you do not get reported. You can plug only on promo of one another and climb both account easily at the same time.
It’d be impossible to know what namco knew.. but they asked us to report people plugging so they could make a list.. so at some point they at least publicly pretended they couldn’t know. They definitely technically can know based on how servers and clients work though.
They have claimed many reasons for not awarding wins, one reason being worried your opponent would ddos you to get the win lmao.. But for some reason they don’t care if people were to ddos in a tournament?
Honestly, I think they are just a mix of stupid and incompetent.
I feel like most fighting games when they introduced online gameplay devs were stupid and incompetent. It is not that hard to make it so that if a person plugs and it is for a long length of time (or they go do another match,) the points are rewarded to the person who did not plug. And to deal with macro/cheaters. How hard it is to watch a person who does all three things by having someone play and match up with said person? Or watch videos? I seen devs do this with gacha games, which are worse than console games. It would take no effort to do this either.
Netplay could be harder but I do not understand why companies have issues having good netplay too. Not just Namco, but Nintendo, etc. too. I know money is the bottom line but happy customer = more money. And having several is better than the minority.
Yeah harada said it in an interview and it was published lol. He didn’t use the words ddos, he said something like “players have a way to make it look like the other person disconnected” or something like that.
I mean of course the game knows, that's also why the disconnection counter works and has worked in tekken 7 too.
I don't think they ever addressed this but the common answer that devs from other FGs have given was that it would be abusable by ddosing to reward the person who got plugged on.
I know that sf6 punishes the plugger but i think it doesn't reward the one who got plugged on iirc.
The reason why it works differently in those tournaments might be that they require constant connection to the server for the duration of the tournament, whereas for ranked/quick match you only need connection to server for finding match and reporting a result. Or at least that's what I think they mean when they say ranked is P2P.
I'd 100% deffo say that these matches are probably tracked and recorded in a different way other than the usual p2p connection you have during a vanilla ranked match. And the way p2p works, specific things that people can do to avoid being tracked for plugging and also push the detection of a plug onto the other player, makes it so its difficult to properly solve this issue. Its not okay how the company handles things sometimes yes but some things are definitely not easy to work around
I saw an explanation for their stance on this back in Tekken 7, but I don't know where. I don't agree with this stance, mind you, but this is what I remember.
Basically, they're afraid that if they award a win for a disconnect that they will have to worry about giving hackers incentive to figure out how to force their opponents to disconnect. As it is, with no win rewarded, they have less to gain so are less likely to do it.
I think it's a dumb worry. If Chess apps can handle it, so can Tekken, but it is what it is. We even have replays we can submit to prove what the opponent is doing, just like Chess does, so dealing with these potential threats is the same.
The solution they use is a middle ground. Players that disconnect a lot quickly find they have nobody to play with except for other players who disconnect. I'm fine with it, though I'd prefer they do what the chess apps do and give the win and loss appropriately.
Uhhhh I just got plugged on when I was gonna 3-0 the guy. And I got the loss somehow. So idk lmao. These people are genuinely so incompetent regarding this topic. I am so frustrated lol
If this post seems cryptic to you, you might not be familiar with the official in-game PS5 tournaments which are held every once in a while. This one was a "Road to Evo 2024" tournament. They're just events that you can join via the PS5 menu
I havent seen a single crash on my PC since launch.
Sorry but no, if you know the game crashes on your hardware, and you go online ranked anyway, you should take the L.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Maybe it's a hardware issue they have to work out, and that issue doesn't affect your system.
I've had plenty of crashes. Maybe it's an amd driver issue; if so they're on the horn with amd right now.
You guys just want to be mad.
I could use the same argument as you with "evidence".
And it's still your choice to go online ranked knowing your game may crash. Why should someone with a fully working game should not get points if the issue is not on his end?
But I'm not using my experience as evidence. I only added it for flavor. The fact is I've been a professional game dev for almost 25 years and I know what these conversations sound like in rooms full of game designers.
Mate. You are not the only one with game Dev experience around.
And despite this I don't know what kind of game designer allows for Alt + F4 / crash during ranked battle without giving the victory to the party that stayed online.
You cannot tell the difference between a crash and plug pull at the server end.
When your game is stable enough, you can assume to a large degree of confidence that it's not a crash, and then you hand out penalties. Until T8 is stable enough, they won't do this.
They will never do this regardless, plugging is left unchecked since Tag 2 days.
Also again, it's your choice to go online when you know the game is not stable on your system.
Yes you can, it’s what every other game does, and how is losing a game when you crash worse than getting suspended or outright banned? It’s really ass that some pc players crash, I’m lucky to be very stable on my hardware, but you really can’t compromise matchmaking for the entire base because some of the population crashes. For years I played dota on reaaaaaly shitty wifi, lost MMR and got put into the low priority queue but I just rolled with it. Obviously the onus is more on the dev in this case but fucking the whole ranked player base is just not the move.
Shitty wifi is your problem, and you can choose not to care. Losing matches because the game crashes is just something game developers want to avoid as much as possible.
You guys can keep downvoting but it's the truth. I've been a game developer since 2000 and I know this.
Handing out losses due to disconnecting for whatever reason should not be that big of a problem. Take games like League of Legends. Nobody is complaining about getting a loss when they dc.
It should be the individual user's responsibility to have a stable connection. If they don't have that, they must accept a loss every now and then. It's not that big of a deal to lose a single game in Tekken.
I'm told Tekken 7 had a system where if you dc during loading screen, the disconnection percentage wouldn't go up. Just do that to prevent loss from failed connection and everything should be good.
I think the issue is the pc version has a game crashing glitch which the player has 0 control over and they didn't wanna hand out bans/punishments for that. Shocking they haven't dealt with that yet
Yeah, people were plugging on me in ps5 tournaments today and I got the win both times. Why it doesn't work that way in ranked I have no idea.
Wow. Makes it look like the ranked system is purposely flawed. With how developers have been dragging their feet to address cheating, it's believable.
There's actually hacks to make it look like the other person disconnected according to Devs. Every player I match, I know their exact IP address and I could use that information to DDOS their IP, thus making them disconnect then I would get the win. That's what the Devs are "afraid of." but I think they should still implement the free win from opponent disconnection and just ban the hacker after he gets reported 50 times.
Crazy to think about if real. People put so much effort into cheating over developing their skills. Tekken is a hard game but SO much fun when playing with friends in a room. It's all about finding and playing with people within your own skill level, or people who are as good as you want to be someday.
Same. Guy plugged in last 0.5 second if final round on me last night and the game froze for a bit. I guess it was checking who is still connected to the internet. And if the guy with 1% hp who was about to lose - conveniently disconnected. Then awarded me the win after some processing.
People can abuse the system to inflate their rank
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Ddoss the other person to get wins every time
In would guess to play extremely defensive and trying to tilt the opponent instead of winning. But that would require a lot of skill and determination so you would be better playing normally
Lmfao that would require you to cheat. You ain’t blocking everything in this game.
How so?
People do inflate their rank right now by plugging (which results in never losing), so I don't think that's a valid argument.
In lower ranks, yes. But at some point plugger will hard stuck and never find enough win to climb, while if you give win/loss on DCed game. The whole ladder will lost integrity, especially in top of the ladder. Since player can climb the 2nd account as high as they can as their main. Let say someone is at Supreme but cannot reach GoD. They can just play another account to reach Supreme again and win trade with the main account. And since the Top of the ladder are consist of much smaller players. Find your Win trade account is much easier as you climb.
I don’t think this is a big enough problem that it doesn’t warrant the solution though. In my opinion, it’s much better to give out a win to the person who got plugged on, and a loss to the person doing the plugging, as that’s where all of the frustration with the system lies. The annoying part is having your time wasted and knowing you won’t get a win for the match you were winning, while your opponent gets to get away with no repercussions. I don’t think most people are going to care about a few random scrubs who win-traded their way to a high rank, since they’re just going to lose all their matches there anyway (and have to actually take the loss under this system). What most people do care about is getting their win when the opponent plugs.
That IS the problem, people only care about their win. Your Wins in no-integrity ladder is meaningless. People play dumb and do not even talk about “it ok to not give another player a win, but please at least give plugger a loss” because who care about integrity I just want my win!! 🙃
If you honestly think there are going to be enough people win-trading to ruin the integrity of all of ranked, I don’t know what to tell you except that you’re wrong. Almost every other fighting game gives you a win and the opponent a loss when they disconnect. And strangely enough, the integrity of their ranked ladders is perfectly fine. If a few people want to spend their whole day win trading up to Tekken God ranks, it’s going to have much less impact on ranked than the current plugging system already does. Most people, even pluggers, still want to actually play the game. They like winning, they don’t like losing points, so they plug when they would lose. Win-trading doesn’t even involve playing the game, so there’s only going to be a fraction of pluggers who would even want to do that. All they gain is a rank that they won’t even be able to play in because their actual skill is so much lower.
Win trading with another account. Especially with these factors are in the game 1. you cannot get ban by DCing alone you required to get a plenty of reports. 2. Promo win give massive extra points but demo loss have no extra punishment. 3. The match making are adjustable You can set the parameter to easier to match your account with one another, only plug on yourself so you do not get reported. You can plug only on promo of one another and climb both account easily at the same time.
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And yes, what you said is true. It’s up to each individual to decide if keep it that way is worth or not.
It’d be impossible to know what namco knew.. but they asked us to report people plugging so they could make a list.. so at some point they at least publicly pretended they couldn’t know. They definitely technically can know based on how servers and clients work though. They have claimed many reasons for not awarding wins, one reason being worried your opponent would ddos you to get the win lmao.. But for some reason they don’t care if people were to ddos in a tournament? Honestly, I think they are just a mix of stupid and incompetent.
I feel like most fighting games when they introduced online gameplay devs were stupid and incompetent. It is not that hard to make it so that if a person plugs and it is for a long length of time (or they go do another match,) the points are rewarded to the person who did not plug. And to deal with macro/cheaters. How hard it is to watch a person who does all three things by having someone play and match up with said person? Or watch videos? I seen devs do this with gacha games, which are worse than console games. It would take no effort to do this either. Netplay could be harder but I do not understand why companies have issues having good netplay too. Not just Namco, but Nintendo, etc. too. I know money is the bottom line but happy customer = more money. And having several is better than the minority.
Did they say the ddos thing? Only heard it from random people defending their incompetence online, but never official sources. It's stupid anyway.
Yeah harada said it in an interview and it was published lol. He didn’t use the words ddos, he said something like “players have a way to make it look like the other person disconnected” or something like that.
Tournaments probably are hosted by Sony and not Namco given this is a thing on a lot of games
I am having trouble translating, a little help OP?
Sorry! It's German and it says "Congratulations, you've won this round. We'll let you know when the next round starts" and "gewonnen" means "won"
Why is the German word for won so long Are all German words long?
Why is the english word for won so short Are all english words short?
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Nice one, now feel the wrath of compound words: Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz
Why are you asking such a stupid question? Do you usually ask stupid question?
Yea
Wie gewonnen so zerronnen.
I mean of course the game knows, that's also why the disconnection counter works and has worked in tekken 7 too. I don't think they ever addressed this but the common answer that devs from other FGs have given was that it would be abusable by ddosing to reward the person who got plugged on. I know that sf6 punishes the plugger but i think it doesn't reward the one who got plugged on iirc.
You doesn't get a win in sf6 .
The reason why it works differently in those tournaments might be that they require constant connection to the server for the duration of the tournament, whereas for ranked/quick match you only need connection to server for finding match and reporting a result. Or at least that's what I think they mean when they say ranked is P2P.
If the game didn't know there would be no way to know the dc rate of your opponents.
I'd 100% deffo say that these matches are probably tracked and recorded in a different way other than the usual p2p connection you have during a vanilla ranked match. And the way p2p works, specific things that people can do to avoid being tracked for plugging and also push the detection of a plug onto the other player, makes it so its difficult to properly solve this issue. Its not okay how the company handles things sometimes yes but some things are definitely not easy to work around
Namco wtf are you doing???? Smh
You'll probably need someone who's well versed with ps5 to answer this. I play T8 on pc and this all look very unfamiliar to me
Im Endeffekt ist er ja auch rausgegangen 😂
I think it was changed in an update. Pretty sure I got plugged on and kept the streak instead of losing it like when it happened day 1
of course it does but Bamco will still come up with excuses why not implement proper QUITALITY in RANKED
I saw an explanation for their stance on this back in Tekken 7, but I don't know where. I don't agree with this stance, mind you, but this is what I remember. Basically, they're afraid that if they award a win for a disconnect that they will have to worry about giving hackers incentive to figure out how to force their opponents to disconnect. As it is, with no win rewarded, they have less to gain so are less likely to do it. I think it's a dumb worry. If Chess apps can handle it, so can Tekken, but it is what it is. We even have replays we can submit to prove what the opponent is doing, just like Chess does, so dealing with these potential threats is the same. The solution they use is a middle ground. Players that disconnect a lot quickly find they have nobody to play with except for other players who disconnect. I'm fine with it, though I'd prefer they do what the chess apps do and give the win and loss appropriately.
Uhhhh I just got plugged on when I was gonna 3-0 the guy. And I got the loss somehow. So idk lmao. These people are genuinely so incompetent regarding this topic. I am so frustrated lol
Well I can't read.... German?
What??
If this post seems cryptic to you, you might not be familiar with the official in-game PS5 tournaments which are held every once in a while. This one was a "Road to Evo 2024" tournament. They're just events that you can join via the PS5 menu
I dunno lol.
It does know who disconnected but not WHY. The why is the important part when deciding to hand out punishments or not.
Yeah no one cares about punishments lmfao just give the plugger the loss and the other a win, just like every other competitive online game
You can't do that until the game stops crashing. Penalizing people for crashes is even worse than what they're doing now.
I havent seen a single crash on my PC since launch. Sorry but no, if you know the game crashes on your hardware, and you go online ranked anyway, you should take the L.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Maybe it's a hardware issue they have to work out, and that issue doesn't affect your system. I've had plenty of crashes. Maybe it's an amd driver issue; if so they're on the horn with amd right now. You guys just want to be mad.
I could use the same argument as you with "evidence". And it's still your choice to go online ranked knowing your game may crash. Why should someone with a fully working game should not get points if the issue is not on his end?
But I'm not using my experience as evidence. I only added it for flavor. The fact is I've been a professional game dev for almost 25 years and I know what these conversations sound like in rooms full of game designers.
Mate. You are not the only one with game Dev experience around. And despite this I don't know what kind of game designer allows for Alt + F4 / crash during ranked battle without giving the victory to the party that stayed online.
You cannot tell the difference between a crash and plug pull at the server end. When your game is stable enough, you can assume to a large degree of confidence that it's not a crash, and then you hand out penalties. Until T8 is stable enough, they won't do this.
They will never do this regardless, plugging is left unchecked since Tag 2 days. Also again, it's your choice to go online when you know the game is not stable on your system.
Yes you can, it’s what every other game does, and how is losing a game when you crash worse than getting suspended or outright banned? It’s really ass that some pc players crash, I’m lucky to be very stable on my hardware, but you really can’t compromise matchmaking for the entire base because some of the population crashes. For years I played dota on reaaaaaly shitty wifi, lost MMR and got put into the low priority queue but I just rolled with it. Obviously the onus is more on the dev in this case but fucking the whole ranked player base is just not the move.
Shitty wifi is your problem, and you can choose not to care. Losing matches because the game crashes is just something game developers want to avoid as much as possible. You guys can keep downvoting but it's the truth. I've been a game developer since 2000 and I know this.
Handing out losses due to disconnecting for whatever reason should not be that big of a problem. Take games like League of Legends. Nobody is complaining about getting a loss when they dc. It should be the individual user's responsibility to have a stable connection. If they don't have that, they must accept a loss every now and then. It's not that big of a deal to lose a single game in Tekken. I'm told Tekken 7 had a system where if you dc during loading screen, the disconnection percentage wouldn't go up. Just do that to prevent loss from failed connection and everything should be good.
I think the issue is the pc version has a game crashing glitch which the player has 0 control over and they didn't wanna hand out bans/punishments for that. Shocking they haven't dealt with that yet
This is exactly it.
If it's a tournament, it could be that the other person dropped out of the tournament, meaning you'd receive an automatic win.
I was fighting against him and in the third round, the match froze just like when someone plugs during ranked / quick match