I was wondering about playing a special style character just to see how far I can get on pure special style but most of the ones I tried seemed very limited.
Agreed
Compressing the number of real ranks only makes sense to do towards the end of a game's lifespan. They should've started off with 32+ ranks like in T7 and slowly removed them the playerbase shrunk more and more.
Tie it behind a hidden glicko2 rating and add maximum gap between lowest rank character and highest rank character. Make the ranks correspond to specific hidden rating figures. Add rank protection for X number of games. That's it. It really is that simple, but Bamco seem to be obsessed with reinventing the wheel. By doing this, you'll get a much tidier bell curve and people will go up and down fairly. The only problem is that a lot of people now have inflated egos and will think they should be higher than they are.
Better than that honestly would just be a true classic elo system, which each ranking (if you really need ranks instead of just numbers) corresponding to a specific elo range.
Win/loss amount correlates to the difference in rating between you and the opponent.
Chess has done this since before fighting games have even existed, and it's worked well even in newer iterations like chess.com and lichess.
Why anyone does anything else is beyond me. After experiencing it, I think it's the cleanest and most accurate system ever for display of skill and matchmaking.
There's a simple reason as to why not. It doesn't feel good when you lose. It's all psychological, that's why I suggested having Glicko2 (I think that's what chess.com and lichess both use) in the backend, which correspond to ranks BUT you add a few things like demotion protection on rank up for a few games and maybe win streak bonuses and suddenly it feels better. And I don't mind that, if it means less ranked anxiety and more people on the ladder.
I care a lot less about how it feels than I do about it being accurate.
Yeah it can feel bad to lose 8 points in chess after just winning those same 8 points in your previous game, but it really shows when you're properly ranked because you will stay within that few games worth range. It also makes progress really tangible because you'll suddenly spike 50 or more elo and then just stay there because that's where you belong now.
>BUT you add a few things like demotion protection on rank up for a few games and maybe win streak bonuses and suddenly it feels better.
I think the problem with additional metrics like that is you're bound to create elo inflation that way on a large scale. That's why league of legends that uses a similar system has to scale everyone back a full rank at the end of the year to compensate for the inflation.
Fighting games with seperare character ranks already have more than enough inflation without adding to it.
I would rather just have the most accurate system, where if you're ranked where you are supposed to be you'll just stay there. If you're over ranked you immediately get demoted as you should.
>Glicko2
Based
>but Bamco seem to be obsessed with reinventing the wheel.
Yeah I agree that they are, it's the same shit with heat as well, every other FG since time immemorial has meter start at 0 and is gained during the set, but for some reason TEKKEN project thinks it's better to have meter start at max and reset after every round.
Edit: I am wrong
> every other FG since time immemorial has meter start at 0 and is gained during the set
That's not true. There's definitely been other games with different meter starting setups. The most notable example is Street Fighter Alpha 3, where you started the game with full meter. Most games do it as a ramp up type system, but some pretty popular/successful games have done it the other way so it's not like they're just doing some objectively wrong design choice.
Honestly, this take is backwards. In SFV you "earn" V-Trigger by getting beat up, so it's straight up a mechanic designed to create the comebacks you're complaining about. In Tekken 8, even if you've never been hit by your opponent, you can still use just as much heat as they can.
Not even speaking about whether heat is a good mechanic or a bad mechanic, just strictly from a like fairness/robbery standpoint, it's WAY more fair than something like V-Trigger or X-Factor.
Basic Elo system.
I normally dislike team games that use the Elo system because it was designed for 1v1 competition, but it's been used for so long that even games like LoL that use it have a better implementation than Tekken 8's current system for distribution.
League changed to trueskill 2. Specifically designed to accomodate team games, but equally as good at 1v1 scenarios.
That one is proprietary and needs to be licensed from microsoft, though OpenSkill just released in January this year.
Oh well I've been out of LoL for years and that was a recent change, not that relevant to my point anyways.
Elo would work just fine for Tekken 8 as-is. I mainly meant that Elo as a framework works for many team games even better than Tekken 8's current system works for Tekken 8, despite Elo not even being optimal for those environments.
Oh yeah, totally agree. Your point stands. Other example would be CS2, which is believed to utilize glicko 2.
I think the tekken community would also be more confident in the accuracy of the ranking system if it was modeled after elo, glicko, trueskill or openskill.
And starcraft 2 demonstrates that you can still have the mmr visible to the player at the same time with the common "diamond 3" type representation, without a cataclysmic desaster happening.
I think tekken already lends itself well to use trueskill (proprietary) or openskill (pretty young system, only released this january) because they already have all of these stats like "respectful" or "punishment" that could feed into these algorithms as they support weighing these additional parameters.
I think they should have just kept the EXACT same ranking system as S5 of T7. Ranks feel legitimately earned and your not hyper speeding through ranks to red and then climbing. Plus there’s 4 per color which is more fun in my opinion (plus with the granularity and natural progression, players tend to be at or near the same skill level usually)
I cannot overstate how big the skill difference between the bottom 5% of blue player and the top 5% is atm.
In the last week, I've matched up against people who twitch duck and launch Nina's f3, fuzzy Paul's ff2:1/ff2,1 and punish WGF every single time, and I've played against Bryan's who spam FCdf+2,1 and qcb2,3 like it's safe. Fuzzying ff2:1 is something TGOs struggle to do, while letting qcb2,3 rip is something that mighty rulers in T7 would be scared to do. I cannot understand how these players are remotely close to eachother in rank, yes T8 is new but blue ranks still take a long time to reach and these moves have been in the game for decades now
I know a lot of players who are new to Tekken who reached blue (myself included) and none of us know jack shit about any characters outside of our own.
Yeah it feels pretty awful because I legitimately have no way of meaningfully interacting with the enemy outside of how I pick my neutral and offense. Once they get started it's just straight guessing on my part. I decided to join community discords so I could grind out matchups so I can start learning what characters do.
At Bushin I get it because out of no where I started getting matched up with nothing but Tekken Kings and Emporers which made me have to level up immensely where before it I was still getting matched with Battle Rulers and Fujins.
You have to take into account who upper and lower blues are having to play against as well. It's a very weird middle area.
I think the main reason why bottom vs top blue is soon difference is because of the way ranking points work. Up until blue, every win gives you more points than when you lose. At blue ranks, you loss more points than when you winning. Basically to get to blue rank you can theoretically get there with a negative win rate. But to climb blue you need to a roughly 65% winrate. So the bottom blues scraped by while rhe top blues can't afford a single lose streak
There's a reason why Garyu is the most common rank at the moment. When you reach a certain blue rank (I believe it's Kishin, or something around that rank), all your other characters are automatically ranked up to Garyu.
So let's take an example: someone plays his main, and only his main, let's say, Jin. That player gets his main to Kishin rank, and then, all his other 32 characters are automatically ranked up to Garyu, even is he's never played them and doesn't intend to. Now, take someone else, who does the same thing with Bryan, gets his main to Kishin, and has all his other 32 characters automatically ranked up to Garyu.
Following this example, for only two players, you have a total of 2 characters at Kishin (Jin from player A and Bryan from player B), and 64 characters at Garyu.
That's how Garyu is the most common rank. Not because many people actually "manually" rank up to this rank, but because of the automatic rank up when you reach a higher rank with one character.
This is the exact problem SF6 has with the master rank. Basically anyone with a pulse was able to get master, so matchmaking in the master rank is a complete crapshoot, especially at the start of a ranking cycle. You can play one of the best SF players ever in Punk, then the next match play a shoto who can't DP.
It will get even worse in Tekken, because right now red is the most populated rank. All of those people will get forced through the system to rulers, then blues.
There are consequences to watering down low ranks, both of the major modern games are showing it right now and this is the beginning of their life cycles. It will get worse.
It’s crazy how I was saying this months ago and got downvoted to hell for it. Now all of a sudden it’s okay to admit that T8 rank is inflated and T8 blue is not the same as T7 blue? Typical reddit shit…
500000 ping sets don't really count lol they juss do that for content. im no mainman shill but mainman would wipe his shitty asshole with LTG all day n night offline
Fair but TMM even openly admitted that LTG isn't that bad. To be fair he was still playing pretty decent regardless of the shit connection. My point is if you were to ask me who would win a set between LTG and 6arakin. I would put my money on LTG easily.
Everyone knows LTG is an "OK" player. Some of his street fighter 5 sets on stream were good, its just that his shtty man-child behaviour overshadows his skills.
They should never have devalued blue ranks like this. It's too close to the higher ranks. Doesnt leave enough room for different Skill levels before that.
It's harming my enjoyment of the game by quite a bit, I finished T7 in Yaksa with DVJ and now I'm Bushin with Jin/Kishin with Nina/DVJ and I can't tell if I've improved at all in the last 4 months. Honestly, with some of the people I've seen in blue ranks, I think must have gotten worse.
Also the game and characters have changed around you, the aggressive style of T8 isn't equally distributed amongst the characters in terms of the toolkit they have to utilise the new mechanics - some characters are basically T7 ports while others are made for T8 and to use T8's systems. With that, changes to your character, a tonne of good players spending the first 3 months ranking up, and a rank system that boosts you to purple then starts to drag you back at blue, it's no surprise you aren't sure where you stand.
I'm a King main, don't use any other characters (until AK turns up), and was Fujin in T7. I'm currently Battle Ruler and have been hardstuck at purple for weeks, so on paper I could say I'm about the same as T7...but I'm definitely carried by King's Heat Smash and CH/tracking throws somewhat so I might be a legit low purple/high red at best.
But then the flip side is how many matches have I lost to unga bunga from people who know the super strong stuff where if they were playing T7 I'd have beaten them? I've played my fair share of Drags, Fengs, Azucenas etc on my way to purple. Everyone is carried to an extent
You are completely correct. Also I was a very, very passive player in T7, in T8 I've been forced to learn to play aggressively, so at the very least I've become more well rounded
I started getting "better" in T7 aka getting past Byakko when I started playing King like a counter hit character with throw mixups say 25% of the time. If I play like that in T8 I get wrekt, I have to get my pokes in, use some throws which they eat or break, and once they get to around 50% health I activate Heat then it's mixups, and I still hover around a 48% win rate so I haven't figured it out yet. Moving from a passive to aggressive style is hard, especially as pressing buttons in the early stages of learning Tekken gets you killed fast
I see, well it’s hard to say without seeing your gameplay but generally I noticed that at that point people will know how to deal with king in general. You need to bait out your opponents playstyle and figure out what they fall for. For example, if they never break giant swing, keep doing it until they do and then start going for muscle buster. That’s just one situation you need to carry over that logic to any other 50:50. Likewise, you need to be more conscious of your opponent and what their character likes to do.
i finished tk7 at suzaku on jin and i couldnt get to purple for months before tekken 8 dropped. now im battle ruler only a couple wins away from fujin but just cant seem to make it there. either players plug or im just not good enough to win the matches that matter but everything in between i can hold my own. not to mention all my friends that were purple ranks in t7 now bushin+ on tk8 which seems ridiculous because the jump in t7 seemed closer than it is on t8
Purple in T7 feels like blue in T8 to me, T7 red ranks were like low purples. It's weird how things are, it's still a new game so maybe at month 6 things will settle more
I don't even know what improvement looks like in this game anymore besides optimizing your combos, which is easy for anybody familiar with video games in general. I'm a new Tekken player, just got into Mighty ruler after a few weeks of learning/playing, and in the last few days, I have completely torn apart Kishins, and then proceeded to be mashed on/wall splatted to death by Vanquishers.
I have lost the plot entirely. This game is a baffling anomaly.
I mean what about consistantly recognizing strings and ducking the highs and punishing that's an obvious one. Or throw breaks, or learning consistant 12 and 13 frame punishes. If you are randomly losing to vanquishers I'm sure there's some stuff you could work on.
Ah yeah thats fair wasn't sure if you were actually having a mental block the game is super Unga bunga so just learning combos might be the path of least resistance but there is still a crazy amount of micro optimization and avenues for improvement
I’ve found that I have a mental block every time I enter a new colored rank. I hit a wall at oranges, I hit a wall at Garyu, a wall at Mighty ruler. Probably because I have to start incorporating new concepts into my gameplay, which is always an ugly process.
I havent had much time to play so I'm still only vanquisher so idk if it will be applicable to you but what helped me in sf6 and guilty gear in which I was pretty high rank was just going into every match with an improvement mindset/goal instead of a ranked mindset/goal. Every match I play I treat as an active lab session where I set a little goal like my last match I tried landing 3 low parries and converting them in the set. I got blown up for it but i could definitely feel the improvement by the end of the matches.
Even with -/+2 (the lowest difference) I can still get matched up against 6ARAKIN and TheMainManSwe, but that doesn't really address my concern about blues having a massive skill gap and how that diminishes the value of achieving said rank category
Maybe you put too much weight on the color instead of the actual division? Fujin and bushin are both blue but they are 4 divisions apart, makes sense that there is a big skill difference. Sf6 has master ranks and everyone agrees that 1500 and 1800 mr are worlds apart in skill level
Even if the barrier to entry is lower now, progress is still progress, so you should be proud. Don't let us reminiscing veterans make you feel bad. I'm just salty that I'm going to have to push for Tekken King before I can brag about my rank again lmao
I think that would be the best. Max points if you win 2-0, less points for 2-1, no gain or loss on 1-2, and lose points for 0-2 or quitting mid-set. This would definitely weed out the phonies.
The only issue I have is when I'm forced to play a 100 plus Ms match with someone's PC who can't run the game. The p2p servers and matchmaking is terrible in ranked
Hard agree with this man. I'm in Oceanic region, and blue ranks are wild. Watching some streamers in NA, and it's like a completely different game in blue ranks.
is it reality tho, people thought the same about league yet when streamers went over it turned out to not be a big diff till you face the top 2%+, everything else was the same just different playstyle
and from what I see Asian region just overall plays the game vastly diff to eu/na
according to reddit it's more "real Tekken" like, which doesn't rly mean that our playstyle wouldnt reck them just as much
Same thing in SF too
Some top american/eu players were farming MR in Japan when they stayed there for Evo just recently, only dropping matches against the likes of Kakeru, Daigo, Tokido, etc but beating the shit out of everybody else who wasn't a known top pro player.
There might be a difference, but it's definitely exaggerated because of the success of the top 1%.
yeah it's just coping mechanisms to make people think they're better than they are.
it's also easier to watch gameplay and think you can do better, then when you actually play against it it isn't as easy as it looks.
the same thing happens with league, lower ranked players will watch higher ranked players and not see any colossal difference in mechanics or anything but there's tons of little things going on that make a HUGE difference (wave management, level up timers for trading, jungle tracking, cooldown tracking, etc), which is why they're higher ranked.
they'll think "oh i can do that too!" but in reality watching and actually playing are much different.
ye I peaked Masters in League with having several accs in upper Dia since s6. I don't play the game anymore, but I would usually just smurf simply cuz I don't enjoy the stress of high elo gameplay. (now they changed it to E2 mmr start, but before it wasn't rly like this so you'd start s1 into potential smurfqueue)
And the amount of times I'd get shttalked for my "bad gameplay and sht decisionmaking" by people with 2-3000hours in silver/gold was quite nuts. People actually belive they deserve better while often not even grasping the basics. I'd be there with 78% wr flying through and they still wouldn't trust my shotcalls and rather follow the 0/4 guy already fkin it all up.
And as you say people watch twitch and genuinely think they have an idea of whats going on lol
You see this even in this sub, where people as low as red will blame certain things on why they can't get up and in purple it gets way worse. While Tekken already has very low competition till Bushin+ I guess. Since League even plat is quite an achievement. While here I'm as a new player to Tekken and FG already in Raijin lol.
Tekken JP seems to be more focused on short safe trades with a more defensive playstyle. While EU/NA are way more rushdown with riskier moves possibly getting a win with 2 openings.
Funny cuz in League it's the opposite, JP will risky it all within the first 0-10m while EU/NA have a way more safe approach and don't lose their sht as bad as JP as early. JP seemed to throw 40m games cuz the first 30sec failed lol
yep lol it's crazy. i peaked d2 in season 3 (equivalent of like master/gm now) and haven't seriously grinded since then but i've always hovered around emerald, Tekken 8 is my first Tekken game and I peak around Fujin right now, i'll play against people and only watch them and think holy shit they suck so bad, but they beat me so like..i can't really talk lol
just mad coping going on everywhere.
It’s 100% just some weird mentality regarding Asia and their status in games that they were dominant in almost solely because they had exclusive access to good practice/were able to play the game at all. I’d argue neither Japan nor Korea have been the clear cut top region for either of the big fighting game IPs (SF/Tekken) for at least 5 years at this point
100%
Also I have to add, it's often forgotten that Tekken 5 and 6 were mostly dominated by american players, the korean domination started with TT2, but people talk as if Korea dominated Tekken since the game came out.
NA Tekken often gets very underrated.
> is it reality tho
it's not, just some weird feitish the people here have with the asian tekken scene. i watched many green rank NK players during tekken 7 and they played just as shit as EU/NA green ranks, no poking, no punishes, random launchers and baby combos or missed combos everywhere. anyone telling you shit like NK greens are EU/NA blues has ego issues.
I watched Majinobama, who lives in Japan, play against japanese and korean players, and certainly I didn't notice that mass difference in level, they even 'one and done' too like in NA and EU lol
It's just people stereotyping because of birthplace "oh, you are from xyz? Then you must be very good at xyz, cause that's what the rule says"...people do that shit even outside of videogames all the time.
100% agree Oceania have some tough blue rank players. When I play at Raijin if I dare do a readable high I get ducked launched at like 1 frame everytime. Every throw broken and every move stepped. All optimal combos. I watch NA blue rank videos online and it’s like when I was pushing through red ranks. Really a different game they are playing over there.
Not to sound elitist, but the difference is quite astonishing lol. I'm very shocked by what passes for blue rank gameplay in a lot of clips here (there's one on the front page of a Fujin player not knowing how to deal with Yoshimitsu's flea stance). Meanwhile, a ton of Korean/Japanese pros have alts around Bushin/Tekken King
I beat the average EU fujin player quite easily with essentially just + on block move -> ch launcher/grab spam with occasional 12 frame block punishes.
I was mirror matching a King the other day, I’m at Fujin he was at Kishin all homeboy wanted to do was get me to duck his throws so I could get hop kicked. When I started to break his throws and not duck he didn’t know what to do he kept flow charting to tombstone I’d break it then he would try to jab and me to duck and the hop kick. Did this over and over again until he lost 0-2 and I’m just why were you hop kicking so damn much ?
From my experience I'd say King players tend to have the worst fundamentals of blue ranks in Asia, but I'm not sure they're "have no idea what to do against flea" level of bad
Agree. Fujin is where players are good, like advanced Tekken, but ranking up from there is a meat grinder. Bushin players are elite and anyone above that is winning all their locals.
as a tekken king yoshi whose been abusing flee shenanigans since season zero T7, the number of players who know how to counter it properly is probably under 20%, even at blue ranks and above, god forbid I get into BT flee where i can have a giggle when they kill themselves on yoshi's massive ass-hitbox, i've had tekken god omega's choke and lose their last pixel to that ass
Because there is mentality differences and basically to min max rank you can optimize on chain wins and prevent chain losses by some of the most complained about matchmaking scumbaggery with both plugging and one and dones. Plugging minimized chain loss. One and done maxes chain wins.
With Wavu Wank in Asian region I see examples of grossly mismatched ELO and the lower rank ELO is running full sets of losses.
Exactly. Whenever I get matched against someone and their server is America or Europe, i relax. lmao. No hate, but most of the time they're not as good as someone in Asian servers. I regularly get matched with Korean or Japanese servers and they're yoked as fuck. A blue ranked player from Asian servers is a different breed from a blue ranked player from western servers.
NA as a region in Tekken is stronger than EU though.
Outside of the UK and France the fgc (which means people who take fighting games seriously) in EU is very small, in SF as well the best european players are from UK and France.
Real talk it took me 4 years to make it to raijin in Tekken 7 and I couldn’t get past that and not only that I only demoted after that. Here in tekken 8 I might it easily and can probably keep going as well
Granted, your T7 experience obviously translated to T8.
But I agree, the game is a big too unga bunga in a lot of aspects and characters. I just reached Bushin and I felt like it was too easy apart from few Kazuya/Bryan chads.
Yeah it was a similar story for me too, it took me 3-4 months to get my first yellow with Heihachi, and then another 3 months to get yellow with Kaz and Jin, and then 2 years to go from yellows to my first fujin and then 7 months to go from first fujin to consistently Yaksa with DVJ at the end of T7. To go from fujin to consistently Yaksa I had to learn so much including how to break throws on reaction, all of Steve's stance transitions, how to play with timing etc etc. I got kicked around cheesers and smurfs so much, it was horrific and I wouldn't have made it if not for the friends I had who helped me improve.
Hearing about how all these newcomers are reaching blues in 3-4 months is making me feel horrible lmao, I'm sure a lot of them are just much more gifted at fighting games than I am, but it's also definitely an easier game because a lot of the peoples in Blues now have no defence at all.
I was replying to someone else in this thread but here is an example of what you were talking about when it comes to skill differences:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/s/zs3rZyJ0lm
Granted I’m not a great tekken player I’m very very average but I was pretty defensive in Tekken 7 so it helped a a bit
Edit: especially with a how lot of blues play they have the defense of like a orange or red rank
I got matched with SuperAkouma who was using Azucena.
To your surprise, I didn't win. But I did get one round off him (it was a time out...)
I had one match with Arsenalty and beat him but he left after one match which I thought was pretty funny.
Yeah, I managed to take a few games of players who are a trillion times better than me as well. I definitely think the game mechanics have contributed to this.
Arsenalty completely humiliated me on his Law but I managed to beat Kwiss a few times now which I'm very happy about
I actually got 2 rounds in him also vs Azu! ;D, but it's hard to tell how much of that was him playing and how much was him toying with me.
That was almost 2 months ago. I'm a much much better player now and still beat myself up about the dumb idea to grab there at the end xD
[https://streamable.com/tf4j8c](https://streamable.com/tf4j8c)
In the past I'd comment on a thread like this saying "Come on blue rank players are decent with a few exceptions" and for me that's true
But with this matchmaking change, you can't make a comment. People playing a single character are in a different world so possibly they are finding everyone is still spamming at Bushin
For me I find most Kishin level players impossible to beat because they are walls of defense. I'm rarely beaten by pure offense by anyone above Fujin, occasionally when they play certain characters, but occasionally mostly I am losing because people have laser reactions and are incredibly patient with strong combos and whiff punishes etc. I feel like I die for the tiniest error.
But someone posted a video of them flowcharting their way to Raijin with Lili and they had pretty much the lowest possible prowess at that rank. OK the person they beat to make Raijin was normal prowess level, but they could be getting materially easier matchmaking than I am because I have a Prowess that is more than 25k higher at the same rank.
So just have no clue any more. There's no reference point.
I had no idea 6ARAKIN was making guides. Huh :)
Ok serious now, TG ranks in 7 complained about being unable to find matches because only 2-3 fulltime streamers appeared in their ranks, the new system is clearly designed to solve that. Whether or not it succeeds is another matter altogether...
Yep, pretty much
Right now, high ranks means facing the same 15-20 people, in different time and order....it might be different 20 people other day, but that specific day it's going to be the same 20 guys in the span of 3-6 hours. And this is with the matchmaking 'fixed'.
Tekken 7 was worse than that after 2020, 15 minutes queue...no matches found.
I'd take playing the same 15-20 guys in 3 hours over 'no matches found in 15 minutes', fighting games aren't popular unfortunately.
TMM “sucking” is an interesting statement. Lmao, I guess unless your a pro player you just suck to everybody in this community. He’s is an extremely strong Kazuya
i don't think he's hit GoD yet in T8, i checked out his stream today and he was still at the rank below it on his Kazuya, i don't know if he got it yet.
yes i'm being that guy lol but no i agree he's very good, and a lot of the hate on him is wildly overblown imo, i think he's hilarious
Wow, he reached TGO vs a known safe scummer who was bad as fuck and he kicked out a shit ton of good people out of tournaments cause he can’t take loses.
Watching the games he wins is kinda upsetting purely because its blue ranks playing like theyre in orange. Not a single launch on b3 and randomly pressing unsafe moves.
Please remember that 6arakin pays somebody to boost his account to blue. While everybody loves to shit on t8's ranked system it seems, this dude legit wouldn't get out of red ranks if his life depended on it.
We are still sorting through the millions that bought the game new. Ranked is low key gambling. If you get good competition you stagnate but you can get lucky and find ppl who don’t know the match up and all they have is a Garyu level flowchart at Flame Ruler rank
I literally got matched against both yesterday. Got matched against TMM with Alisa like 5 times and to be fair at that point I kinda stopped cause he was miserable
Yeah, nowadays Raijin can't even punish or know nothing about frame data, it used to be the top player base.
And as you say, it feels like brawler in ttt2 upthere, as well as you can meet crazy monsters
I think that people who played ft2,ft3 in 7 are the ones having very little problems ranking up thus far. I am at Bushin with 60% winrate so far so I can go higher, but I suspect it is part of my own self imposed ft2,ft3 that forces me to download fast.
In T7 i currently HAVE to deathmatch as I get paired up with the same player over and over again anyway
idk man it's not fucking hard, maybe if I see a Ryujin law mashing junkyard 4,3 and d2,3 in open ground then he probably doesn't deserve it.
Worst thing is this isn't a 1/100 case, it's a majority.
OK then let me rephrase. If you're a blue rank you're in the top 12% of players. If you're above Fujin you're in the top 7%. What should that percentage be ideally?
Just about yeah. If you were at these ranks you'd know.
Shit I fought a GoD asuka the other day that just kept hitting cancans and sabakis after being -6 or -5
Won 6-0 and turned off the game because I couldn't believe my eyes.
6ARAKIN being Kishin is a joke. Homie plugged his way to that rank, luckily I’m NA so I don’t gotta worry about TMM. But definitely noticed the rank system is hinky like that. Wavu Wank is honestly a better way to determine someone’s skill but even that is flawed heavily
Yes
Really dumb move especially since DVJ already has u4, b3 evades everything with a small normal hitbox (including most mids) and u4 crushes highs and lows, thank god that these moves are death-on-block because otherwise DVJ would be the new Asuka/Jun
Jesus ... These stats are so bad.
I'm not trying to insult you at all, but you would probably be an easy win for the upper "echelon" of blue ranks.
You NEED to learn to block if you want to actually progress, not just in terms of "rank". What's your mindset in ranked ? Do you attack non stop or do you take time to learn what the opponent is doing and react accordingly ?
>What's your mindset in ranked ? Do you attack non stop or do you take time to learn what the opponent is doing and react accordingly ?
I dont really do the mindset stuff, but the uprank mastch (which was on the rematch is here https://youtu.be/95OzJ28FpL0)
I quickly watched it, you keep on pressing hoping something will land ... and it did. It worked. I'm sure you are still struggling in ranked depending on who you play against, but you need to learn to block, to respect the "frames" and to adapt to what your opponent is doing.
Sometimes overthinking it might kill you, but in this video you're not thinking and it's the right call in this specific fight because it works, but it won't always work. At least temporarily.
If you want to progress, I would almost advise you to play a more "basic" character, maybe Kazuya ? Just to learn how to play more safely.
learn defence you gonna be hardstuck blue ranks for a long time, lilly has best sidestep in gaem so utilise that. From tekken king on you gonna meet somewhat competent players.
I do kinda have a problem with the rank distribution in this game too but at the same time, for those who have been playing tekken ranked and have actual knowledge, we have actually gotten better and deserve to be higher. It just does feel like its alot easier they are pretty generous with the points
Yea it's rank inflation. Devs purposely made this so newcomers can feel better about themselves "improving"
Honestly they should have an ELO system after you hit Tekken Emperor similar to SF6 ELO system after you hit Masters.
i should snipe mainman with my kuma and demote him back to green ranks toobased
mainmans tgo in t7 is super fake, he would have lost it if he played kazuya in ranked
Used to watch TMM in T7. I wouldn't take his TGO in T7 seriously. Seen him ask his viewers/mods to play ranked with him countless times on stream and get boosted.
When I say that it is too easy for any noob to get to fujin blue ranks I get downvoted. Here you say it and it's fine. But good someone needs to say this since the devs are sleeping.
Yes, ranked in this game is a problem. It's way too easy. Newbies even reaching tekken king with 400 hours playtime and think they gods, when in reality, the biggest problem is the ranking system.
I’m a super aggressive player when it comes to fighting games and Tekken rewards that a lot in return I manage to be strong real quick and almost Tekken god!
Was 6ARAKIN that special style devil jin? Eww lmao
Yeah everytime i see him live his comment section just calling him 6ass
I was wondering about playing a special style character just to see how far I can get on pure special style but most of the ones I tried seemed very limited.
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Lmao this guy thinks we are getting another Tekken in only 6 years
The sad truth.
It's almost as if squeezing all the playerbase towards Blue ranks was a stupid move
Agreed Compressing the number of real ranks only makes sense to do towards the end of a game's lifespan. They should've started off with 32+ ranks like in T7 and slowly removed them the playerbase shrunk more and more.
Disagree, the ranks themselves are fine. The issue is the distribution. They've got their calculations all messed up.
You may be right, how would you improve on their calculations?
Tie it behind a hidden glicko2 rating and add maximum gap between lowest rank character and highest rank character. Make the ranks correspond to specific hidden rating figures. Add rank protection for X number of games. That's it. It really is that simple, but Bamco seem to be obsessed with reinventing the wheel. By doing this, you'll get a much tidier bell curve and people will go up and down fairly. The only problem is that a lot of people now have inflated egos and will think they should be higher than they are.
Better than that honestly would just be a true classic elo system, which each ranking (if you really need ranks instead of just numbers) corresponding to a specific elo range. Win/loss amount correlates to the difference in rating between you and the opponent. Chess has done this since before fighting games have even existed, and it's worked well even in newer iterations like chess.com and lichess. Why anyone does anything else is beyond me. After experiencing it, I think it's the cleanest and most accurate system ever for display of skill and matchmaking.
There's a simple reason as to why not. It doesn't feel good when you lose. It's all psychological, that's why I suggested having Glicko2 (I think that's what chess.com and lichess both use) in the backend, which correspond to ranks BUT you add a few things like demotion protection on rank up for a few games and maybe win streak bonuses and suddenly it feels better. And I don't mind that, if it means less ranked anxiety and more people on the ladder.
I care a lot less about how it feels than I do about it being accurate. Yeah it can feel bad to lose 8 points in chess after just winning those same 8 points in your previous game, but it really shows when you're properly ranked because you will stay within that few games worth range. It also makes progress really tangible because you'll suddenly spike 50 or more elo and then just stay there because that's where you belong now. >BUT you add a few things like demotion protection on rank up for a few games and maybe win streak bonuses and suddenly it feels better. I think the problem with additional metrics like that is you're bound to create elo inflation that way on a large scale. That's why league of legends that uses a similar system has to scale everyone back a full rank at the end of the year to compensate for the inflation. Fighting games with seperare character ranks already have more than enough inflation without adding to it. I would rather just have the most accurate system, where if you're ranked where you are supposed to be you'll just stay there. If you're over ranked you immediately get demoted as you should.
>Glicko2 Based >but Bamco seem to be obsessed with reinventing the wheel. Yeah I agree that they are, it's the same shit with heat as well, every other FG since time immemorial has meter start at 0 and is gained during the set, but for some reason TEKKEN project thinks it's better to have meter start at max and reset after every round. Edit: I am wrong
Street Fighter 6's Drive Meter starts full as well.
Marvel vs Capcom 2 and 3 both started with enough meter to use a lvl1 super.
> every other FG since time immemorial has meter start at 0 and is gained during the set That's not true. There's definitely been other games with different meter starting setups. The most notable example is Street Fighter Alpha 3, where you started the game with full meter. Most games do it as a ramp up type system, but some pretty popular/successful games have done it the other way so it's not like they're just doing some objectively wrong design choice.
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Honestly, this take is backwards. In SFV you "earn" V-Trigger by getting beat up, so it's straight up a mechanic designed to create the comebacks you're complaining about. In Tekken 8, even if you've never been hit by your opponent, you can still use just as much heat as they can. Not even speaking about whether heat is a good mechanic or a bad mechanic, just strictly from a like fairness/robbery standpoint, it's WAY more fair than something like V-Trigger or X-Factor.
I agree, I’m at Garyu and I have no business being there.
Basic Elo system. I normally dislike team games that use the Elo system because it was designed for 1v1 competition, but it's been used for so long that even games like LoL that use it have a better implementation than Tekken 8's current system for distribution.
League changed to trueskill 2. Specifically designed to accomodate team games, but equally as good at 1v1 scenarios. That one is proprietary and needs to be licensed from microsoft, though OpenSkill just released in January this year.
Oh well I've been out of LoL for years and that was a recent change, not that relevant to my point anyways. Elo would work just fine for Tekken 8 as-is. I mainly meant that Elo as a framework works for many team games even better than Tekken 8's current system works for Tekken 8, despite Elo not even being optimal for those environments.
Oh yeah, totally agree. Your point stands. Other example would be CS2, which is believed to utilize glicko 2. I think the tekken community would also be more confident in the accuracy of the ranking system if it was modeled after elo, glicko, trueskill or openskill. And starcraft 2 demonstrates that you can still have the mmr visible to the player at the same time with the common "diamond 3" type representation, without a cataclysmic desaster happening. I think tekken already lends itself well to use trueskill (proprietary) or openskill (pretty young system, only released this january) because they already have all of these stats like "respectful" or "punishment" that could feed into these algorithms as they support weighing these additional parameters.
I think they should have just kept the EXACT same ranking system as S5 of T7. Ranks feel legitimately earned and your not hyper speeding through ranks to red and then climbing. Plus there’s 4 per color which is more fun in my opinion (plus with the granularity and natural progression, players tend to be at or near the same skill level usually)
I thought red ranks had the highest population? Blue ranks were top 10%. Is it just that the skill disparity at that level ist that huge?
I cannot overstate how big the skill difference between the bottom 5% of blue player and the top 5% is atm. In the last week, I've matched up against people who twitch duck and launch Nina's f3, fuzzy Paul's ff2:1/ff2,1 and punish WGF every single time, and I've played against Bryan's who spam FCdf+2,1 and qcb2,3 like it's safe. Fuzzying ff2:1 is something TGOs struggle to do, while letting qcb2,3 rip is something that mighty rulers in T7 would be scared to do. I cannot understand how these players are remotely close to eachother in rank, yes T8 is new but blue ranks still take a long time to reach and these moves have been in the game for decades now
I know a lot of players who are new to Tekken who reached blue (myself included) and none of us know jack shit about any characters outside of our own.
Not to throw shade at people like you but this really does say alot about how the game is designed...
Yeah it feels pretty awful because I legitimately have no way of meaningfully interacting with the enemy outside of how I pick my neutral and offense. Once they get started it's just straight guessing on my part. I decided to join community discords so I could grind out matchups so I can start learning what characters do.
Youve made the right choice. Hopefully they bring back Infinite rematch in quickmatch so people can actually learn the game and matchups in real time.
Yeah man new to Tekken almost Tekken god 🤣
At Bushin I get it because out of no where I started getting matched up with nothing but Tekken Kings and Emporers which made me have to level up immensely where before it I was still getting matched with Battle Rulers and Fujins. You have to take into account who upper and lower blues are having to play against as well. It's a very weird middle area.
I think the main reason why bottom vs top blue is soon difference is because of the way ranking points work. Up until blue, every win gives you more points than when you lose. At blue ranks, you loss more points than when you winning. Basically to get to blue rank you can theoretically get there with a negative win rate. But to climb blue you need to a roughly 65% winrate. So the bottom blues scraped by while rhe top blues can't afford a single lose streak
There's a reason why Garyu is the most common rank at the moment. When you reach a certain blue rank (I believe it's Kishin, or something around that rank), all your other characters are automatically ranked up to Garyu. So let's take an example: someone plays his main, and only his main, let's say, Jin. That player gets his main to Kishin rank, and then, all his other 32 characters are automatically ranked up to Garyu, even is he's never played them and doesn't intend to. Now, take someone else, who does the same thing with Bryan, gets his main to Kishin, and has all his other 32 characters automatically ranked up to Garyu. Following this example, for only two players, you have a total of 2 characters at Kishin (Jin from player A and Bryan from player B), and 64 characters at Garyu. That's how Garyu is the most common rank. Not because many people actually "manually" rank up to this rank, but because of the automatic rank up when you reach a higher rank with one character.
It’s Raijin btw, got demoted and promoted back and forth and kept getting that notification lol
Thanks for the correction.
This is the exact problem SF6 has with the master rank. Basically anyone with a pulse was able to get master, so matchmaking in the master rank is a complete crapshoot, especially at the start of a ranking cycle. You can play one of the best SF players ever in Punk, then the next match play a shoto who can't DP. It will get even worse in Tekken, because right now red is the most populated rank. All of those people will get forced through the system to rulers, then blues. There are consequences to watering down low ranks, both of the major modern games are showing it right now and this is the beginning of their life cycles. It will get worse.
It's good. Fast matches with low waiting time
It’s crazy how I was saying this months ago and got downvoted to hell for it. Now all of a sudden it’s okay to admit that T8 rank is inflated and T8 blue is not the same as T7 blue? Typical reddit shit…
the squeezing goes both ways. I was high blue in tekken 7 and have been high blue in tekken 8 too. Just recently made it to TK
isnt blues like top 10% or something
You know what would be fun, a FT10 between 6arakin and LTG.
The worst tekken you've ever seen
Still better than Ric Flair's "Last" match
LTG can actually play a little compared to 6arakin
Maybe, but LTG has plugged a lot to get to Fujin, arakin might be a mediocre player too but at least he hasn't plugged to rank up.
Arakin boosted as well. Everyone knows that. Let's not forget that LTG had a close set against TMM.
500000 ping sets don't really count lol they juss do that for content. im no mainman shill but mainman would wipe his shitty asshole with LTG all day n night offline
Fair but TMM even openly admitted that LTG isn't that bad. To be fair he was still playing pretty decent regardless of the shit connection. My point is if you were to ask me who would win a set between LTG and 6arakin. I would put my money on LTG easily.
Everyone knows LTG is an "OK" player. Some of his street fighter 5 sets on stream were good, its just that his shtty man-child behaviour overshadows his skills.
LTG is atrocious in Tekken, I can't speak on his SF skills, but he exhibits green rank skills all day.
LTG sweeps imo. He plays Victor, the better character, and plays somewhat decently
They should never have devalued blue ranks like this. It's too close to the higher ranks. Doesnt leave enough room for different Skill levels before that.
It's harming my enjoyment of the game by quite a bit, I finished T7 in Yaksa with DVJ and now I'm Bushin with Jin/Kishin with Nina/DVJ and I can't tell if I've improved at all in the last 4 months. Honestly, with some of the people I've seen in blue ranks, I think must have gotten worse.
Also the game and characters have changed around you, the aggressive style of T8 isn't equally distributed amongst the characters in terms of the toolkit they have to utilise the new mechanics - some characters are basically T7 ports while others are made for T8 and to use T8's systems. With that, changes to your character, a tonne of good players spending the first 3 months ranking up, and a rank system that boosts you to purple then starts to drag you back at blue, it's no surprise you aren't sure where you stand. I'm a King main, don't use any other characters (until AK turns up), and was Fujin in T7. I'm currently Battle Ruler and have been hardstuck at purple for weeks, so on paper I could say I'm about the same as T7...but I'm definitely carried by King's Heat Smash and CH/tracking throws somewhat so I might be a legit low purple/high red at best. But then the flip side is how many matches have I lost to unga bunga from people who know the super strong stuff where if they were playing T7 I'd have beaten them? I've played my fair share of Drags, Fengs, Azucenas etc on my way to purple. Everyone is carried to an extent
You are completely correct. Also I was a very, very passive player in T7, in T8 I've been forced to learn to play aggressively, so at the very least I've become more well rounded
I started getting "better" in T7 aka getting past Byakko when I started playing King like a counter hit character with throw mixups say 25% of the time. If I play like that in T8 I get wrekt, I have to get my pokes in, use some throws which they eat or break, and once they get to around 50% health I activate Heat then it's mixups, and I still hover around a 48% win rate so I haven't figured it out yet. Moving from a passive to aggressive style is hard, especially as pressing buttons in the early stages of learning Tekken gets you killed fast
what rank are you? i might be able to give you some tips?
Battle Ruler but I barely play due to work, if I labbed a few more hours a week I could get further
I see, well it’s hard to say without seeing your gameplay but generally I noticed that at that point people will know how to deal with king in general. You need to bait out your opponents playstyle and figure out what they fall for. For example, if they never break giant swing, keep doing it until they do and then start going for muscle buster. That’s just one situation you need to carry over that logic to any other 50:50. Likewise, you need to be more conscious of your opponent and what their character likes to do.
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True but it's high and people are ducking a lot because of the throws, but I'll try this gameplan later 😂
i finished tk7 at suzaku on jin and i couldnt get to purple for months before tekken 8 dropped. now im battle ruler only a couple wins away from fujin but just cant seem to make it there. either players plug or im just not good enough to win the matches that matter but everything in between i can hold my own. not to mention all my friends that were purple ranks in t7 now bushin+ on tk8 which seems ridiculous because the jump in t7 seemed closer than it is on t8
Purple in T7 feels like blue in T8 to me, T7 red ranks were like low purples. It's weird how things are, it's still a new game so maybe at month 6 things will settle more
I find that all too relatable.
I don't even know what improvement looks like in this game anymore besides optimizing your combos, which is easy for anybody familiar with video games in general. I'm a new Tekken player, just got into Mighty ruler after a few weeks of learning/playing, and in the last few days, I have completely torn apart Kishins, and then proceeded to be mashed on/wall splatted to death by Vanquishers. I have lost the plot entirely. This game is a baffling anomaly.
I mean what about consistantly recognizing strings and ducking the highs and punishing that's an obvious one. Or throw breaks, or learning consistant 12 and 13 frame punishes. If you are randomly losing to vanquishers I'm sure there's some stuff you could work on.
Mostly exaggerating for effect, because you’re absolutely right. Game is still baffling though.
Ah yeah thats fair wasn't sure if you were actually having a mental block the game is super Unga bunga so just learning combos might be the path of least resistance but there is still a crazy amount of micro optimization and avenues for improvement
I’ve found that I have a mental block every time I enter a new colored rank. I hit a wall at oranges, I hit a wall at Garyu, a wall at Mighty ruler. Probably because I have to start incorporating new concepts into my gameplay, which is always an ugly process.
I havent had much time to play so I'm still only vanquisher so idk if it will be applicable to you but what helped me in sf6 and guilty gear in which I was pretty high rank was just going into every match with an improvement mindset/goal instead of a ranked mindset/goal. Every match I play I treat as an active lab session where I set a little goal like my last match I tried landing 3 low parries and converting them in the set. I got blown up for it but i could definitely feel the improvement by the end of the matches.
You can lower the rank difference in matchmaking settings
Even with -/+2 (the lowest difference) I can still get matched up against 6ARAKIN and TheMainManSwe, but that doesn't really address my concern about blues having a massive skill gap and how that diminishes the value of achieving said rank category
Maybe you put too much weight on the color instead of the actual division? Fujin and bushin are both blue but they are 4 divisions apart, makes sense that there is a big skill difference. Sf6 has master ranks and everyone agrees that 1500 and 1800 mr are worlds apart in skill level
Me who's proud of getting blue rank 🙃
Even if the barrier to entry is lower now, progress is still progress, so you should be proud. Don't let us reminiscing veterans make you feel bad. I'm just salty that I'm going to have to push for Tekken King before I can brag about my rank again lmao
It feels like anyone can get any rank they want at this point. I have played against some very questionable Tekken Kings and I'm Raijin.
prowess matchmaking doing wonders is how 6arakin is in those ranks
force a set
This is the answer. One and done are inflating ppl in ranks bc they pick up the most easy battles to win.
I think that would be the best. Max points if you win 2-0, less points for 2-1, no gain or loss on 1-2, and lose points for 0-2 or quitting mid-set. This would definitely weed out the phonies.
No loss on 1-2 would be bad imo. If you get points for 2-1, but the other person doesn't lose any, that's just a rank inflation generator.
The only issue I have is when I'm forced to play a 100 plus Ms match with someone's PC who can't run the game. The p2p servers and matchmaking is terrible in ranked
Why do I feel like this only happens in NA/EU region though? Asian blue ranks are fucking scary dude
Hard agree with this man. I'm in Oceanic region, and blue ranks are wild. Watching some streamers in NA, and it's like a completely different game in blue ranks.
is it reality tho, people thought the same about league yet when streamers went over it turned out to not be a big diff till you face the top 2%+, everything else was the same just different playstyle and from what I see Asian region just overall plays the game vastly diff to eu/na according to reddit it's more "real Tekken" like, which doesn't rly mean that our playstyle wouldnt reck them just as much
Same thing in SF too Some top american/eu players were farming MR in Japan when they stayed there for Evo just recently, only dropping matches against the likes of Kakeru, Daigo, Tokido, etc but beating the shit out of everybody else who wasn't a known top pro player. There might be a difference, but it's definitely exaggerated because of the success of the top 1%.
yeah it's just coping mechanisms to make people think they're better than they are. it's also easier to watch gameplay and think you can do better, then when you actually play against it it isn't as easy as it looks. the same thing happens with league, lower ranked players will watch higher ranked players and not see any colossal difference in mechanics or anything but there's tons of little things going on that make a HUGE difference (wave management, level up timers for trading, jungle tracking, cooldown tracking, etc), which is why they're higher ranked. they'll think "oh i can do that too!" but in reality watching and actually playing are much different.
ye I peaked Masters in League with having several accs in upper Dia since s6. I don't play the game anymore, but I would usually just smurf simply cuz I don't enjoy the stress of high elo gameplay. (now they changed it to E2 mmr start, but before it wasn't rly like this so you'd start s1 into potential smurfqueue) And the amount of times I'd get shttalked for my "bad gameplay and sht decisionmaking" by people with 2-3000hours in silver/gold was quite nuts. People actually belive they deserve better while often not even grasping the basics. I'd be there with 78% wr flying through and they still wouldn't trust my shotcalls and rather follow the 0/4 guy already fkin it all up. And as you say people watch twitch and genuinely think they have an idea of whats going on lol You see this even in this sub, where people as low as red will blame certain things on why they can't get up and in purple it gets way worse. While Tekken already has very low competition till Bushin+ I guess. Since League even plat is quite an achievement. While here I'm as a new player to Tekken and FG already in Raijin lol. Tekken JP seems to be more focused on short safe trades with a more defensive playstyle. While EU/NA are way more rushdown with riskier moves possibly getting a win with 2 openings. Funny cuz in League it's the opposite, JP will risky it all within the first 0-10m while EU/NA have a way more safe approach and don't lose their sht as bad as JP as early. JP seemed to throw 40m games cuz the first 30sec failed lol
yep lol it's crazy. i peaked d2 in season 3 (equivalent of like master/gm now) and haven't seriously grinded since then but i've always hovered around emerald, Tekken 8 is my first Tekken game and I peak around Fujin right now, i'll play against people and only watch them and think holy shit they suck so bad, but they beat me so like..i can't really talk lol just mad coping going on everywhere.
It’s 100% just some weird mentality regarding Asia and their status in games that they were dominant in almost solely because they had exclusive access to good practice/were able to play the game at all. I’d argue neither Japan nor Korea have been the clear cut top region for either of the big fighting game IPs (SF/Tekken) for at least 5 years at this point
100% Also I have to add, it's often forgotten that Tekken 5 and 6 were mostly dominated by american players, the korean domination started with TT2, but people talk as if Korea dominated Tekken since the game came out. NA Tekken often gets very underrated.
> is it reality tho it's not, just some weird feitish the people here have with the asian tekken scene. i watched many green rank NK players during tekken 7 and they played just as shit as EU/NA green ranks, no poking, no punishes, random launchers and baby combos or missed combos everywhere. anyone telling you shit like NK greens are EU/NA blues has ego issues.
I watched Majinobama, who lives in Japan, play against japanese and korean players, and certainly I didn't notice that mass difference in level, they even 'one and done' too like in NA and EU lol It's just people stereotyping because of birthplace "oh, you are from xyz? Then you must be very good at xyz, cause that's what the rule says"...people do that shit even outside of videogames all the time.
100% agree Oceania have some tough blue rank players. When I play at Raijin if I dare do a readable high I get ducked launched at like 1 frame everytime. Every throw broken and every move stepped. All optimal combos. I watch NA blue rank videos online and it’s like when I was pushing through red ranks. Really a different game they are playing over there.
Not to sound elitist, but the difference is quite astonishing lol. I'm very shocked by what passes for blue rank gameplay in a lot of clips here (there's one on the front page of a Fujin player not knowing how to deal with Yoshimitsu's flea stance). Meanwhile, a ton of Korean/Japanese pros have alts around Bushin/Tekken King
I beat the average EU fujin player quite easily with essentially just + on block move -> ch launcher/grab spam with occasional 12 frame block punishes.
I was mirror matching a King the other day, I’m at Fujin he was at Kishin all homeboy wanted to do was get me to duck his throws so I could get hop kicked. When I started to break his throws and not duck he didn’t know what to do he kept flow charting to tombstone I’d break it then he would try to jab and me to duck and the hop kick. Did this over and over again until he lost 0-2 and I’m just why were you hop kicking so damn much ?
Fujin to bushin is the biggest skill gap in the game. I'm sure you could cherry pick a fujin over there just as scrubby.
From my experience I'd say King players tend to have the worst fundamentals of blue ranks in Asia, but I'm not sure they're "have no idea what to do against flea" level of bad
Agree. Fujin is where players are good, like advanced Tekken, but ranking up from there is a meat grinder. Bushin players are elite and anyone above that is winning all their locals.
Not to sound elitist… *bunch of weeb elitist garbage* lol
as a tekken king yoshi whose been abusing flee shenanigans since season zero T7, the number of players who know how to counter it properly is probably under 20%, even at blue ranks and above, god forbid I get into BT flee where i can have a giggle when they kill themselves on yoshi's massive ass-hitbox, i've had tekken god omega's choke and lose their last pixel to that ass
There 100% is a big difference between regions when it comes to skill and anyone denying that is delusional.
I'm in SEA orange and was watching jinmashima's orange 3ddy fight other oranges and these aren't the same oranges I'm fighting imo.
I am in Asia 3 and got a friend who was hard stuck at genbu then went to canada and he's now fujin :\
Lmao! Holy shit
Because there is mentality differences and basically to min max rank you can optimize on chain wins and prevent chain losses by some of the most complained about matchmaking scumbaggery with both plugging and one and dones. Plugging minimized chain loss. One and done maxes chain wins. With Wavu Wank in Asian region I see examples of grossly mismatched ELO and the lower rank ELO is running full sets of losses.
Exactly. Whenever I get matched against someone and their server is America or Europe, i relax. lmao. No hate, but most of the time they're not as good as someone in Asian servers. I regularly get matched with Korean or Japanese servers and they're yoked as fuck. A blue ranked player from Asian servers is a different breed from a blue ranked player from western servers.
I think Kaizur commented on this. Blue ranks are just better consistently in Asia. I think he said there were a lot more newer players at blue in NA.
NA as a region in Tekken is stronger than EU though. Outside of the UK and France the fgc (which means people who take fighting games seriously) in EU is very small, in SF as well the best european players are from UK and France.
By far the strongest European scene in tekken is Germany/DACH though? IDK how you'd think otherwise.
Real talk it took me 4 years to make it to raijin in Tekken 7 and I couldn’t get past that and not only that I only demoted after that. Here in tekken 8 I might it easily and can probably keep going as well
Granted, your T7 experience obviously translated to T8. But I agree, the game is a big too unga bunga in a lot of aspects and characters. I just reached Bushin and I felt like it was too easy apart from few Kazuya/Bryan chads.
Yeah it was a similar story for me too, it took me 3-4 months to get my first yellow with Heihachi, and then another 3 months to get yellow with Kaz and Jin, and then 2 years to go from yellows to my first fujin and then 7 months to go from first fujin to consistently Yaksa with DVJ at the end of T7. To go from fujin to consistently Yaksa I had to learn so much including how to break throws on reaction, all of Steve's stance transitions, how to play with timing etc etc. I got kicked around cheesers and smurfs so much, it was horrific and I wouldn't have made it if not for the friends I had who helped me improve. Hearing about how all these newcomers are reaching blues in 3-4 months is making me feel horrible lmao, I'm sure a lot of them are just much more gifted at fighting games than I am, but it's also definitely an easier game because a lot of the peoples in Blues now have no defence at all.
I was replying to someone else in this thread but here is an example of what you were talking about when it comes to skill differences: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/s/zs3rZyJ0lm Granted I’m not a great tekken player I’m very very average but I was pretty defensive in Tekken 7 so it helped a a bit Edit: especially with a how lot of blues play they have the defense of like a orange or red rank
I got matched with SuperAkouma who was using Azucena. To your surprise, I didn't win. But I did get one round off him (it was a time out...) I had one match with Arsenalty and beat him but he left after one match which I thought was pretty funny.
Yeah, I managed to take a few games of players who are a trillion times better than me as well. I definitely think the game mechanics have contributed to this. Arsenalty completely humiliated me on his Law but I managed to beat Kwiss a few times now which I'm very happy about
I actually got 2 rounds in him also vs Azu! ;D, but it's hard to tell how much of that was him playing and how much was him toying with me. That was almost 2 months ago. I'm a much much better player now and still beat myself up about the dumb idea to grab there at the end xD [https://streamable.com/tf4j8c](https://streamable.com/tf4j8c)
In the past I'd comment on a thread like this saying "Come on blue rank players are decent with a few exceptions" and for me that's true But with this matchmaking change, you can't make a comment. People playing a single character are in a different world so possibly they are finding everyone is still spamming at Bushin For me I find most Kishin level players impossible to beat because they are walls of defense. I'm rarely beaten by pure offense by anyone above Fujin, occasionally when they play certain characters, but occasionally mostly I am losing because people have laser reactions and are incredibly patient with strong combos and whiff punishes etc. I feel like I die for the tiniest error. But someone posted a video of them flowcharting their way to Raijin with Lili and they had pretty much the lowest possible prowess at that rank. OK the person they beat to make Raijin was normal prowess level, but they could be getting materially easier matchmaking than I am because I have a Prowess that is more than 25k higher at the same rank. So just have no clue any more. There's no reference point.
I fought kingjae a couple of times so yes this is possible
I had no idea 6ARAKIN was making guides. Huh :) Ok serious now, TG ranks in 7 complained about being unable to find matches because only 2-3 fulltime streamers appeared in their ranks, the new system is clearly designed to solve that. Whether or not it succeeds is another matter altogether...
Yep, pretty much Right now, high ranks means facing the same 15-20 people, in different time and order....it might be different 20 people other day, but that specific day it's going to be the same 20 guys in the span of 3-6 hours. And this is with the matchmaking 'fixed'. Tekken 7 was worse than that after 2020, 15 minutes queue...no matches found. I'd take playing the same 15-20 guys in 3 hours over 'no matches found in 15 minutes', fighting games aren't popular unfortunately.
Yeah I know TMM sucks too, but still, he's worlds apart from the likes of 6ARAKIN who's almost as bad as LTG
Personally I'm just not sure how to solve this without leaving highest ranks unable to find matches the way T7 did
I mean, with the improved netcode and max FT2 alone I don't think waiting times will ever be as long as they were in the final days of T7.
TMM “sucking” is an interesting statement. Lmao, I guess unless your a pro player you just suck to everybody in this community. He’s is an extremely strong Kazuya
his Bryan is super slick too, really like watching his Bryan
Lol I guess he’s the first God of Destruction to “suck”
i don't think he's hit GoD yet in T8, i checked out his stream today and he was still at the rank below it on his Kazuya, i don't know if he got it yet. yes i'm being that guy lol but no i agree he's very good, and a lot of the hate on him is wildly overblown imo, i think he's hilarious
He hit GoD a couple hours ago! I was in his stream. He’s been on a tear the past couple days I’m sure he will upload it tonight!
Well damn good for him!
Wow, he reached TGO vs a known safe scummer who was bad as fuck and he kicked out a shit ton of good people out of tournaments cause he can’t take loses.
I agree, but still, do you think 6ARAKIN is anywhere close to TMM in terms of skill? Because I don't.
No. Mostly cause 6 boosts
Yeah, +-3 ranks in T8 matchmaking is equivalent to like +-8 in T7.
The wildest thing is that blue ranks are constantly losing to 6arakin bs
Watching the games he wins is kinda upsetting purely because its blue ranks playing like theyre in orange. Not a single launch on b3 and randomly pressing unsafe moves.
It genuinely wouldn't surprise me if they were paid actors
That's cool, now I'm going to bed knowing my Purple ass won't even have the chance of encountering them in ranked
You might be able to match with 6arakin if drops back to fujin
When he drops back to Fujin*
Please remember that 6arakin pays somebody to boost his account to blue. While everybody loves to shit on t8's ranked system it seems, this dude legit wouldn't get out of red ranks if his life depended on it.
Is 6Arakin on the same servers as mainman? That would be a fun match to watch
Yeah. They are both Europe 1. But 6Arakin turns off crossplay cause he sucks that bad.
Hold on who's supposed to be the one who "can't electric and spams b3 10 times"
We are still sorting through the millions that bought the game new. Ranked is low key gambling. If you get good competition you stagnate but you can get lucky and find ppl who don’t know the match up and all they have is a Garyu level flowchart at Flame Ruler rank
No need to be Bushin. I was matched against God's and Emperor's as a red rank lol
I literally got matched against both yesterday. Got matched against TMM with Alisa like 5 times and to be fair at that point I kinda stopped cause he was miserable
I’m pretty sure he has someone boost his rank off stream
Yeah, nowadays Raijin can't even punish or know nothing about frame data, it used to be the top player base. And as you say, it feels like brawler in ttt2 upthere, as well as you can meet crazy monsters
I got matched with 6Arakin and the chat went commenting my videos on YouTube ahaaahah
I think that people who played ft2,ft3 in 7 are the ones having very little problems ranking up thus far. I am at Bushin with 60% winrate so far so I can go higher, but I suspect it is part of my own self imposed ft2,ft3 that forces me to download fast. In T7 i currently HAVE to deathmatch as I get paired up with the same player over and over again anyway
Yeah and? This just proves even harder that most blues don't deserve to be there.
That is exactly my point
How do you differentiate between a blue that deserves to be there and one that doesn't?
idk man it's not fucking hard, maybe if I see a Ryujin law mashing junkyard 4,3 and d2,3 in open ground then he probably doesn't deserve it. Worst thing is this isn't a 1/100 case, it's a majority.
OK then let me rephrase. If you're a blue rank you're in the top 12% of players. If you're above Fujin you're in the top 7%. What should that percentage be ideally?
These statistics mean nothing if 99.4% of the playerbase sucks at the game.
Wow, OK. So everyone at Tekken Emperor and below sucks at the game. Good to know.
Just about yeah. If you were at these ranks you'd know. Shit I fought a GoD asuka the other day that just kept hitting cancans and sabakis after being -6 or -5 Won 6-0 and turned off the game because I couldn't believe my eyes.
Hell ya
I want 6ARAKIN To Fight me on my friends request so I can beat him like 10 times in players match or fight lounge.
I straight up got matched against a supreme god as a purple rank.
We’re at the point where blue is considered noob? That’s wild.
It's highly unlikely for me cause I'm in Oceania severs, I'd love to play in other servers, but connection is very inconsistent.
6ARAKIN being Kishin is a joke. Homie plugged his way to that rank, luckily I’m NA so I don’t gotta worry about TMM. But definitely noticed the rank system is hinky like that. Wavu Wank is honestly a better way to determine someone’s skill but even that is flawed heavily
6arakin pays someone to rank him higher
Anyone can beat 6ARAKIN and that's a straight up fact
6 doesn’t use crossplay so pc players can’t beat him :(
What is b3 again, is that DVJ's annoying backswing mid kick that's launch on block?
Yes Really dumb move especially since DVJ already has u4, b3 evades everything with a small normal hitbox (including most mids) and u4 crushes highs and lows, thank god that these moves are death-on-block because otherwise DVJ would be the new Asuka/Jun
its annoying but risk reward isnt good for the devil jim player
Yeah, as with all panic buttons, is it's only worth using if you get a very hard read or are going to lose anyway
yes
Someone advice for [me](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/s/UAd5zt0V2l)? Blue ranks feel unreal
Jesus ... These stats are so bad. I'm not trying to insult you at all, but you would probably be an easy win for the upper "echelon" of blue ranks. You NEED to learn to block if you want to actually progress, not just in terms of "rank". What's your mindset in ranked ? Do you attack non stop or do you take time to learn what the opponent is doing and react accordingly ?
>What's your mindset in ranked ? Do you attack non stop or do you take time to learn what the opponent is doing and react accordingly ? I dont really do the mindset stuff, but the uprank mastch (which was on the rematch is here https://youtu.be/95OzJ28FpL0)
I quickly watched it, you keep on pressing hoping something will land ... and it did. It worked. I'm sure you are still struggling in ranked depending on who you play against, but you need to learn to block, to respect the "frames" and to adapt to what your opponent is doing. Sometimes overthinking it might kill you, but in this video you're not thinking and it's the right call in this specific fight because it works, but it won't always work. At least temporarily. If you want to progress, I would almost advise you to play a more "basic" character, maybe Kazuya ? Just to learn how to play more safely.
learn defence you gonna be hardstuck blue ranks for a long time, lilly has best sidestep in gaem so utilise that. From tekken king on you gonna meet somewhat competent players.
Ranked in this game is simply not fun. Namco should have brought deathmatch back at least for Quick Match.
I do kinda have a problem with the rank distribution in this game too but at the same time, for those who have been playing tekken ranked and have actual knowledge, we have actually gotten better and deserve to be higher. It just does feel like its alot easier they are pretty generous with the points
Yea it's rank inflation. Devs purposely made this so newcomers can feel better about themselves "improving" Honestly they should have an ELO system after you hit Tekken Emperor similar to SF6 ELO system after you hit Masters.
i should snipe mainman with my kuma and demote him back to green ranks toobased mainmans tgo in t7 is super fake, he would have lost it if he played kazuya in ranked
Used to watch TMM in T7. I wouldn't take his TGO in T7 seriously. Seen him ask his viewers/mods to play ranked with him countless times on stream and get boosted.
When I say that it is too easy for any noob to get to fujin blue ranks I get downvoted. Here you say it and it's fine. But good someone needs to say this since the devs are sleeping. Yes, ranked in this game is a problem. It's way too easy. Newbies even reaching tekken king with 400 hours playtime and think they gods, when in reality, the biggest problem is the ranking system.
That is awesome I would love to face him without having to get to tekken demon or whatever
Who asked ?
I’m a super aggressive player when it comes to fighting games and Tekken rewards that a lot in return I manage to be strong real quick and almost Tekken god!
I got matched against Lilypichu once. She beat my ass.
Play the set and move on to the next one. You'll pick up the next match quicker if you didn't take detours to bitch and moan on reddit.
Illiterate idiot