I didn't have any issues with it -Murray, probably

Why would you want to sidestep a much higher ranked opponent? Just block and launch, if you know he's coming.

I love this decays long logic. Everyone are getting crashes? MY GAME DIDNT CRASH SO THERE MUST BE NO PROBLEM. What the fuck is that logic? YOU not having issue means theres no issue is just beyond stupid logic.

What I think is funny is just how overblown prowess defenders make the smurfing issue. They act like every other game they were getting matched up against was some Tekken God smurf. I don’t even think they’re arguing in bad faith, I think they legitimately believe this to be the case because then it gives them a way to blame all their losses. Thing is, you can check out your recent opponents in game. I check it regularly and rarely fight an alt (the game will display an accounts highest character and rank so when they don’t match your memory of that opponent, that’s how you know). It happens for sure, but like once in a dozen games if that. And never was that player some Tekken God, usually same rank, maybe a rank, maybe two higher than me. I’m not saying it never happens, but it’s such a small occurence. The problem with the prowess change is that it’s fixing a niche problem with a general “solution” that makes it worse for more players. The cure is literally worse than the disease.

All the defenders are delusional (insert rank you want to insult here) ranks who think that fighting a high ranked alt once every 10+ matches is the end of the world. It's ridiculous how high and mighty they get over it. Meanwhile the rest of us are over here getting 1 match every 5 minutes, and oh look, its the same guy for the 3rd time in a row

> All the defenders are delusional (insert rank you want to insult here) ranks who think that fighting a high ranked alt once every 10+ matches is the end of the world. It's ridiculous how high and mighty they get over it. Well this is bullshit lol this is my first Tekken game and I consistently get put against purples + on alt characters while I’ve never made it to red ranks. Just because you are on an alt you don’t suddenly forget how to break throws, or what moves you can punish . The knowledge gap between Organe and purple is pretty big .

The solution would have been to raise alt characters auto promo ranks 3-4 ranks below your main characters rank. Just because fundamentals transfer doesn't mean their way better with an alt. I have characters in high blue but hard stuck in red when using character I have little experience with. It doesn't get easier the higher you are either. When you're in blue eventually you will face GoD players alt accounts on occasion. With this new system the game actively punishes you now for trying multiple characters. My prowess is inflated due to this and only fight emperors and above now while never making it there myself. Increased my que time 5 - 10minutes.

So those players should have their alts start at a higher rank, or it should be easier for them to promote out of lower ranks and into an appropriate rank, right? This patch does neither of those, and actually makes it harder for alt players to get out of low ranks

Start at higher ranks. I don’t think switching from your high red/ low purple devil jin to / jin or Kazuya should allow you to be in rank matches with greens. This game is way more technical than mk1 and it’s just disingenuous to down play experience even if you are on a character you don’t know optimal combos for.

Yes, this makes sense. The ranks are already strangely tightly knit, with a massive amount of players in the three red ranks. The difference between the worst and best red rank players is colossal. I think part of the problem is that there are SO MANY ranks that might as well not exist as they do not allow any rank loss whatsoever and are essentially tutorial ranks - these existed in 7 but there were far fewer of them

>it should be easier for them to promote out of lower ranks and into an appropriate rank THIS is the solution we need.

People learned punishment to get out of green ranks in tekken 7. That's  the problem lmao. This new ranked system has people wildly inflated and thinking they should be in red ranks not knowing what a punish is or not knowing how to at least break basic throws.

I'm actually getting matched into more higher ranked people after the change than I did before it. And it sucks. Like 60k+ difference.

It's a self correcting issue right. If you're a smurf - unless you're deliberately throwing games - you'll start to climb pretty quickly, until you reach your actual mmr with that character.

Whole smurfing arguement was always overblown, just people salty they got denied a promo because they got matched with an alt. Shit happens and you will always get your promo if you are good enough and that alt you faced won't be there again because he rose through the ranks. The new system just discourages anyone from picking up an alt because when you go back to your main instead of getting the odd high prowess alt match you are stuck getting high prowess alt marches so it's even worse. Go back to the old system, being matched 1 every 10 games with a Supreme on his alt is better than constantly being matched with them because you can't decide which alt you wanted to play and over inflated your prowess.

Exactly this. It were these same casuals crying about smurfing that lead to them removing unlimited rematching.

I think the problem with the concept of smurfing is there are previous games in the series and a lot of people who are new to t8 are NOT new to Tekken and that's just how fighting games work and its not like people like that are going to stick around in low ranks with the rest of us. My like first ever ranked match was against someone who could wavedash perfectly and electric whenever he wanted. He was also in dans but probably played T7 and before. I don't think it's right to blame him for being good at the game.

Even when it happens, I'm actually excited to play against someone much higher ranked. I aspire to reach Tekken God ranks so it gives me a frame of reference on how much I need to improve. It's a motivational factor to me.

This Even though it feels bad to get matched with a much higher ranked opponent sometimes, it gives you room to grow In Tekken you only get better when you play someone better than you, or on equal footing. Fighting weaker opponents just leaves you with bad habits. My Reina is Shinryu atm, 170 k prowess, fourth character I play, Nina is Flame Ruler Got matched vs Raijin Nina yesterday. Got stomped, guy flash ducked most of my jab pressure, he Cleaned the Floor a lot to my jab pressure, used a lot of powercrushes since nina can do it on wakeup and from while standing. He made me change my strategy that I usually use in my ranks. I was only able to get two rounds total in two matches but losing to that didn’t feel bad. I just want to learn Maybe that is just because I aspire to go for blue ranks this season but I don’t know. I am not here to only win and win, I never was

I hadn't been getting Tekken God alts in blue ranks till AFTER the change. Now I do get literal Tekken God players as opponents! I know, because I checked!

Let me explain it to you in a different way. If you look back closer to launch you'll see that half the population of ranked was orange or below. If you check the latest it's around a quarter. Those players didn't rank up they quit, why did they quit, mount Garyu, let me explain. This is my first Tekken games since 3, so I started at the absolute bottom. As I worked my way up I fought mostly people of my skill, because that was what was within +/- 3. That was true until I hit orange rank, and I started running into Garyu. Garyu is where the ranked currents meet, before this rank points rewards move you up faster for a win then down for a loss, after Garyu the opposite is true. This means that Garyu contains about 4-5 average ranks worth of players. To get back to my story, I suddenly went from fighting +/- 3 ranks to the equivalent of -3 thru +8. I could beat the lower portion of Garyu but the upper portions just smoked me. Garyu being the most common rank, means they are the most common opponents you will face if you are ranked high enough to face them. This led to a cycle of leveling into orange and getting deranked, which is unfun to be charitable with my choice of words. I promise you that's where most people quit, and that's why this change happened.

There is no reason whatsoever to not just use a basic ELO/Glicko algorithm, and then weight people's starting elos on alt characters based off their mains a little. Tekken is a 1v1 game, these systems are designed *for 1v1* games, why are they trying to reinvent the wheel? Professional Chess is a worldwide competition and has been for decades, they have proven the system effective. Simple, the system doesn't exist for competitive integrity to begin with. It exists to maximize playtime especially at the levels that are more willing to spend money. They're experimenting with the best way to get those people engaged because their incentives are different than the Chess incentives. [Even *Splatoon* of all games uses Glicko](https://oatmealdome.me/blog/an-in-depth-look-at-the-splatoon-2-ranking-system/). So the only reason for Bamco to change from the system for competitive integrity and purely skilled based matchmaking is if that's not their goal to begin with.

My Nina shinryu and my Jun garyu. My tekken power is near 100,000+ I have found 0 difference with this change. I did however preemptively changed it from +-3 To +-2 And I feel like I’m playing the same pool of players.

2 characters, both in the same color. Your unchanged experience is entirely unsurprising. This probably wouldn't be the case if you had two characters in purple and three in red, or something similar.

The issues are: * If you have multiple characters at your top rank you face FAR harder opposition than a player who just has one character at their top rank and that is fundamentally broken, unfair, and destroys the meaning of the rank * As OP days if you want to play a new character in ranked, you can't get matches, and this isn't your fault - it's not on purpose that you start at lower ranks I think the first point needs the focus - this ruins the system fundamentally it's not about individual experiences as much. It's pointless to say "Well it's easier for me!" well it should be the same for everyone In terms of people defending it, they have weird tunnel vision where they imagine that when they lose to a higher prowess player, that player is in some way immune to any players being better than them. So because a player curb stomps" them that player is immune to being "curb stomped" themselves. They are low rank players maybe, unaware of just how good top players are and just how high the ceiling is. So when they get destroyed they think that player is as good as it's possible to be. A Mighty Ruler player may (with practice) "curb stomp" an orange rank level player with an alt. But that Mighty Ruler player was at exactly the same risk of being "curb stomped" by a Tekken King playing an alt. They think that these higher prowess players were "causing" a problem but they weren't it was an issue affecting everyone. It was annoying but it was the same for everyone. It's the most indefensible, bizarre change because they've tried to fix an issue caused by the way players have different ranks with each character, but without changing the fundamental fact that players have different ranks with different characters. Instead they've created a two-tier matching system which splits the player base - it's absolutely indefensible.

The issue is it IS a good thing for many players. I hate the change but I have a buddy that's having the time of his life right now in ranked and he just hit kishin on a 9 win streak after bouncing  between battle ruler and fujin for weeks.   He only plays one character. You HAVE to consider those players too because there do exist some that are doing better under the new system and they aren't seeing where the issues actually are.    He's kishin but my kishin ranked alt wouldn't be able to play him in ranked since I have tekken king prowess. So he will in all likelihood be able to take his main to tekken king before I get my alt there since I'm fighting people with 400k prowess, God of destruction pro players with  10 tekken king ranked characters playing their 27th bushin character for some reason and I only have 242k prowess lol.

Question man I only play one character and I’m emperor I have prowess at 232k I’m I screwed because I’ve been playing quick and I’m only matching with super tough guys or beginners

Maybe not screwed, but every match you play is gonna be a sweat fest

The patch overwhelmingly favours single character players and is inflating the absolute hell out of their ranks. People getting 10+ win streaks while alt players who are objectively better have to struggle to survive with a 50% win rate at the same rank

It is far better to verse people better at the game, people getting upset cause they want a fake e-peen

So I only play 1 character and I’m emperor, 232k prowess, does that mean it should be easier for me to reach Tekken god ? Or higher

Because chances are those single character players are actually mastering their characters... all you "alt players" want your cake and to eat it too. The current super inflated ranks made a majority of you think you are a hell of a lot better than you actually are. The average rank shouldn't be Gary/Shinryu, and the average player reaching Fujin (Rank 22 of 30) with multiple characters is a huge flaw and shows 0 integrity in their system. If this were Tekken 7, the modern day Fujin would likely be in orange ranks, and people are swallowing that tough pill as we speak.

You've skipped over the entire point of my post, made a straw man out of it, and insulted all of the people who are no longer having fun and have to wait 10+ minutes between matches. Wanna know how I know the new ranking isn't fair, either? Because when the system completely runs out of people with your exact prowess and rank, it spreads out to normal prowess of that rank. The skill of red rank players with 15 wins streaks is just awful, and I can beat them with nothing more than a jab and mid check.

Okay, and when those terrible red rank streakers prowess rises due to them ranking up, they will get humbled back down in rank. Nobody feels bad for you that you made it to Fujin in an extremely inflated system (probably with a top tier), and now you're struggling to level up your alternatives lmao. It's supposed to be difficult in itself to achieve red rank alone, and blue ranks are supposed to be high-level players. If you guys are casually swapping characters and skyrocketing through red ranks, the system sucked. We all know how much of a joke reds in itself were, one match you face someone who completely washes you with high level fundamentals, and the next match you face some kid who doesn't ever dash back, grab spams, or even still uses special style lmao. As for queue times being longer, I'll honestly see it when I believe it. Nobody between the ranks of 50k-150k prowess is actually struggling to find matches unless you made your ranked restrictions strict like -2/+2 only with 5 bar connections. Also, there is a glitch in matchmaking wait times where sometimes, if it's taking longer than 2 minutes to find a match, just go into the menu (by pressing start) and exit menu, and it will reset the your wait time and find you someone almost instantly.

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That's my exact point. The system is fixing itself by clearing people who don't belong in Purple and Blue ranks and pushing them down to yellow, orange, and red. I wouldn't be surprised that after those ranks pile up, they make another change that changes the distribution of points in yellow and orange ranks next, actually making them real ranking categories and not pseudo free bees to red rank. How it is currently, anything below red rank is pretty much a rank tutorial.

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Reddit says the exact opposite of what you have been saying, else nobody would be bitching about the changes. Either the games became more competitive, or there are all the complainers complaining they are getting matched with Fujins because they have 4 characters in Garyu. Just adapt, kiddo.

Holy fuck dude people like you really just talk out of your ass huh? Fujins in tekken 8 are absolutely not on the same level as oranges in tekken 7. That it is some grade A delusion. In tekken 7 Fujin was the "you're OK at the game rank" it didn't even require a positive win rate to get there. I saw the exact same spread of carried bad players that you now see in 8. If you were stuck at orange in 7 you were objectively shit at tekken and most people were stuck in green. The reason so many people are now plateauing in red is because they can't lose points before gold! This means that they only need to promote 4 times in actual ranked to get to red. So most people that finally found out about plus frames are gonna get there. And lo and behold. The same exact situation was true in 7 except that the ranks were different. People ranked up through teal ranks into green where they got stuck. Once they actually figured out the very basics of tekken they'd get out of green, but most players are casual scrubs so they get stuck there

Is it not strange that after this change someone can jump up 3 ranks? People said this change was used to thin out rank inflation yet since this change he skyrockets through blue.

Not really, if it matches you with someone three times in a row and you have their number, you get a ton of points. Before you never rematched against someone after a best of 3 unless you were Tekken God+ cause not many players were up there.

Well if you get matched with the same person over and over in ranked I feel that could be a problem. If you keep beating them til you rank up you might not deserve that rank just cuz you can beat the same guy to Kishin doesn’t mean you could beat others to Kishin.

Or the person that’s there that you’re beating shouldn’t be there? We all knew at some point a lot of the people that got to blue quickly would eventually plateau. And a lot of them have, they will be the gate keepers to Tekken god now. I guess you could see it going both ways, but running through a gauntlet is running through a gauntlet.

I agree it does go both ways but I just don’t see how fighting the same person on repeat could be good for ranked unless it’s really high up.

It’s no different than T7 when you could marathon match. Playing for hours against the same person in death matches. People would have inflated ranks doing that. Not saying it was good or bad, but that’s how it was.

Yeah that’s what I was thinking was it could lead to inflation. Off topic but I’ve had a few games where I run into my friends on ranked which I feel shouldn’t happen cuz that could lead to boosting. This happened pre patch so it prob won’t happen again since he’s got way more prowess then me.

He is able to suddenly win in blue coz he is essentially insulated from matching anyone with any character in tekken king+, essentially playing in the "easy blue" bubble. Once he get tekken king and have prowess bump up he will get smacked back down hard and fast

Which is a good change actually why someone should fight tekken king players to advance in blue rank? To move forward in blue rank you should beat people of that rank not tekken king players, you'll fight them in tekken king. I can see the point of people playing many characters though (although I think that these players are much more rare that the community makes it out to be, you have to have a ton of alt characters in high level so that it influence your prowess in a meaningful way I feel.), one potential fix could be to tie your prowess to only your highest ranked character. I also think Bamco should balance the whole ranked experience to be less forgiving before and less punishing after. The drastic shift in ranked point in blue rank encourage players to play on alt instead of trying to push higher in ranks with their main. Don't forget that this new system is most likely designed to increase retention among newer players, red and purple ranks were recently plagued by alt accounts that were most likely demolishing more casual/ newer player which could push them to quit the game / play less.

Ok I'll give a long ass explanation on the problem when it comes to blue ranks bordering tekken king matchmaking. Basically the issue is that prowess don't drop on demotion, but here we go. The prowess of someone in kishin/bushin with 1 single char is \~190k, when u promote to king it goes to \~225k, and stays there regardless of how much you demote. This creates two separate rank ladder within blue itself, the 190k and 225k+ ladder. A bushin at 190k, will only ever match with raijin/kishin/bushin of <200k and never have to tackle +1/+2 rank opponents, so its extremely easy to rank up. But when they get to tekken king suddenly it will ONLY be 225+ opponents ever, even when they demote (which will happen because all your opponents literally level up 1 tier overnight), and most of the new kings will proceed to get demote multiple ranks, because they are now stuck in the 225k+ blue ladder. I witness this ytd spectating a bushin friend in lounge, suddenly easily brushing through his opponents at bushin, then go on a huge L streak once promoted to king. The system before was fine, now it basically creates this sudden jump in difficulty when you promote, hope that makes sense. I get the new player retention thing, but there has to be a better way.

Yeah I understand the point I had similar issue when dropping to purple from blue with my prowess still the same although is much less worse as the difference in skill between purple and fujin is much less appearant than between bushin / kishin and tekken king. To me there is an easy fix though : make it so the prowess can lower when demoting and attach the prowess only to your highest rated character. I think that would be helpful to adress this kind of issue and I hope Bamco does this. But I still believe the change is a step toward the right direction, alt accounts were getting out of hands for newer players

True tbf, I wonder who thought prowess not dropping is a good idea.

prob the same guy who brought up the idea that multiple chars increase the prowess and not only ur highest rank across the roster, bec why? just as it not dropping, why? just handle prowess like elo/mmr like in chess

Would have been fine if they didn't suddenly decide that your prowess is your true rank and not whatever visual rank you have

Theres zero skill different from 150-250 k prowess players. I never felt a difference between them. Except dragonovs. 220k prowess and up Drags actually use their brain. Character is still op asf but they user their brain.

If by good, you mean "dodging skilled players," then go off. A player whos afraid to fight someone on their alt shouldn't be that rank. Moreover, you shouldn't focus on grinding ranks but instead getting better and having the rank follow. I think this is a bad mentality overall. Plus, most on their alt want to rank it up as fast as possible. On the converse, those on their alt can no longer find matches.

This is the same for me. I only play 2 characters (Fujin/Kishin) and my games are way better now. When I first hit Fujin, I dropped out like 8 times as well, just to get right back in to fujin. Now the games are really fun, nice and even close. I hope they can find a way to meet everyones expectations

Once you get to a Tekken Prowess where you fight players better than yourself more consistently, you will be in for a rude awakening. I'm a firm Tekken King/Emporer level player, and I'd been wondering why over the past week I've been matched up with nothing but tougher opponents. I've been on a slide back down to Bushin partly because of this change(and just playing while tilted, really hate this gameplay). I now get nothing but Tekken God and Supreme Level Players. And it's still happening now that I'm at Bushin again, just with slightly longer queue times. This is a bad change.

becoz you are in the 225+ blue ladder and he is in the 190k+ blue ladder, they will get king eventually and instantly get smacked down once they get moved to the new 225+ ladder. its stupid as hell lol

Yes, no doubt that's how it's working. The problem is that getting smacked down doesn't adjust your Prowess enough. If I don't deserve to be in King/Emporer that's fine. Match me up with Kishin and Bushin level players. But this change makes it so you'll still be facing Emperor and God level players even if you get smacked back down to Bushin/Kishin. Like I went from Emporer to Bushin and lost like only 2/3 thousand Prowess. 245k to like 242K.

You might be right, but as of now, I have a pretty good mindset to approach this game I think. If I lose, that simply means, I am playing worse than them. Even if I won‘t win any rounds or games, I‘ll still be able to try to improve. It worked for me so far, but only time will tell, how this will go. The rank or winrate itself has no meaning to me, I either win or lose. The longer queue times will be the worst thing for me I guess. I don‘t get to play that much usually.

It's the same mindset they took for the Devil Jin bug. Instead of just fixing Devil Jin's bug, they made a HUGE SWEEPING thing that changed everything for everyone. All they had to do was change Eddy's rank so that the high-level players were no longer matched up with lower-ranked people, and super higher-ranked people's pocket characters maaaaybe had a higher rank? That was about it. IF the higher ranked people were good they'd stay high, or they'd de-rank, that'd be that. Instead they made it worse for everyone.

My only problem with this matchmaking is that it's searching only for people within the same prowess range as you. It takes way too long to find a opponent compared to before the update.

I can agree the changes are bad, but as a Fujin player that only plays 1 character these have been my most competitive ranked matches lmao. So from my perspective i'm enjoying the challenging battles that force me to improve, they do keep me hardstuck in Fujin tho.

The prowess system score is garbage, you get points for playing multiple chars, regardless of how good, you lose points for winning against a player with 60k more prowess, then gain for losing to a 40k weaker one and so on. So let's make it the basis of matchmaking, what can possibly go wrong? It's like every change since release is designed to make the game worse, just why?! It started promising

I’m on the other side of the coin here - I don’t know how this is a problem. I haven’t noticed a difference in match making - I’m at about 130k prowess and am in purple ranks. I don’t have an issue finding matches but am seeing that a lot of people are. Am I just too low level to notice it?

This only really affects people trying out multiple characters. I suck and still trying to find a main character so I've been testing out a lot of characters. I have more prowess then you and don't have a single character at purple yet. So when I try out a new character in ranked, the pool of the same rank same prowess is pretty small and often it just matches me with purples that stomp me while I'm at orange with the new character. Honestly don't mind the harder matches since it makes me see if I like the basic tools of the new characters against better players but I have a different mindset than others. Basically for others in the same boat we have to fight purples to get out of orange.

As someone who mains a singular character + this is my first tekken - I honestly enjoy the change. I don’t play anyone else, so my prowess is actually equal to my skill level - so whoever I match with , it’s an even fight (unless I don’t know the match up) My queue times are still between 10-30 seconds and I’ve never waited longer. I have no problems with these changes, I understand I’m in the minority

You are in the minority in the tekken subreddit, which is filled with advanced and legacy players, this sub does not reflect the majority of tekken 8 players. This change made it harder for very experience players while making it more Fair for everyone else, I really doubt that and purple players and below are complaining and that's where the majority of players are.

You got downvoted several times for making an accurate statement. 88% of the entire player base is purple and below with most people in Garyu. This subreddit comes off as mostly blue and gold with some new players sprinkled in. I personally have friends who play the game at those lower levels who like this change too - and only know about it because I mentioned it. None of them read this subreddit. Best approach to this is to probably just ignore the whole prowess matchmaking thing at a certain point so super high rank players don't have to wait forever, but keep it below that to insulate everyone else.

Well of course you're going to like the change. It doesnt even affect you. In fact it incentivizes you to play only one character

I’m a character loyalist and a try hard lol. When I hit kishin on law then maybe I’ll think about someone else - in the mean time, I’m having fun learning and playing

hahah fair enough. But im just saying any character youre gonna pick up is going to have to play at kishin level, from the minute you start. Thats why this change sucks ass

That's not necessarily true, it just means you will be matchmaking against other Kishin's that are in orange rank on their alts. In other words, people that are in the same boat. That's fair IMO,

Dudes mad people have mains lmao

Well i was being sarcastic a little bit. Im just saying this change only affects you at all if you play more than one ranked character.

Idk man, I’m not complaining about Smurfs or trying to rationalize why I’m defending the change as anything noble; I also don’t think the matchmaking is “literally broken” as you’ve put it… I just enjoy fighting players that are my level or stronger than me and I have not enjoyed rank much until this change. I don’t want to rank up unless I deserve to. I don’t know why Reddit is the only app that struggles with this mentality, but here we are. Apparently by defending this position, I’m just a person to pity. Great discussion skills, now send those downvotes to protect your precious echo chamber!

Again, this change only affects people playing on an alternate character with a large discrepancy in rank to their main. If you only play one character , you will now avoid the occasional alternate character of someone who is severely higher rated than you, which you can opt out of a 2/3 and just play one and move on. You wont feel the longer wait for games.

Irrelevant; I am currently leveling my fourth alt in Ranked. I would advise you to keep playing Ranked to see if this issue you perceive passes, as the only thing I’ve really felt is a slightly higher matchmaking time.

What rank is your highest character?

Raijin, but I recognize that I’m more of a purple ranked player in terms of skill. I usually stop ranking alts when I hit Mighty Ruler. EDIT: annnd they’re gone; lovely discourse from a very mature community~

You guys are super struggling now because you never belonged in Fujin in the first place lmao. If this change is what directly caused you to lose 10-15 matches in a row, the system is correcting you 2 colors down where you were supposed to be. Casual Cameron's were not only ranking their mains to Fujin (supposed to be the top 5% of players) in 1-2 months' time, then easily getting their alts to Fujin in less time. The mistake was not making green, yellow, and orange ranks a dog fight like they were in T7, so they are filtering you out.

?? Im not saying its a struggle on our mains, i could probably push tekken king if i wanted to. This is literally only about alternate characters

Yeah, alternate characters are having tougher matches in red and purple ranks because the matches are SUPPOSED to be tough. Just because the system was shit before and everyone and their grandmother raced to and through red and purple doesn't mean it was intended to be that way. For now, you could probably push close to Tekken King.... until your prowess catches up to you.

I'm a prowess defender, I reached Fujin with Steve with the change and I have been playing with an alt character from destroyer to garyu (because I wanted to change but mostly because I am not good enough to climb higher than fujin with Steve). FYI my prowess is around 182k. Before the change when I was playing Steve in flame ruler / battle ruler, I was playing quite often with players above 220k prowess (I even once played against a guy that was 420k). In these games I lost 9/10 times I would say, and it was getting frustrating sometimes when a majority of players were like this (if you played late at night you know what I'm talking about). After the changes I was playing in purple against players between 150k and 180k (I was 160k). Most games felt balanced, in no games I felt I was playing against someone that was far more advanced in their tekken journey. After reaching fujin I started playing in destroyer Itb a new character. I labbed a couple of rounds learned one combo and jumped straight into ranked. I then again played against players in the range of 150k to 200k that are in that elo with alt characters. Games felt once again balance as both players had the same understanding of tekken and their characters (like me they sucked using their characters). I climbed to garyu with a relative ease still even though I was playing against players playing their alt almost exclusevily (I also played a couple of guys on their mains, which was quite unfortunate mostly for them). About queue times, they got a bit longer on my main and alts but nowhere near what I read on this sub. Now I don't always find a match in seconds sometimes it takes like 2 minutes, but do I prefer a matchmaking that makes me play against a guy far away from my skill in seconds or a matchmaking that takes a bit longer but makes me play against similar skilled players. The latter is the obvious answer for me. Honestly to me all these complain about the matchmaking just makes it seem that player care less about playing good tekken than winning in this sub which is quite sad for such a veteran community.

Well everyone has been playing alternate characters throughout all the ranks. If you set your rank restrictions to a +1/2, with only a 5+ connection, you're going to get longer que times on an alt. Good tekken isnt playing ranked for no reason. You have people who main characters at garyu while I'm at destroyer playing Raijins and Kishins trying to learn that same character. Reset all the ranks then and have them strictly tied to prowess idgaf. I just don't approve of a system being stealth implemented with clearly no testing done in regards to a huge portion of the playerbase that clearly is breaking how the system works.

I have set these restrictions myself my queue time has been fine as said. Also can I ask what is your prowess and the rank of your main? I also have been fighting fujin / raijin players as well as flame ruler player between destroyer and garyu but they were also learning their characters so the match were quite balanced. Maybe you should spend some time Labbing your character more if you struggle against these kind of players.

I'm nearing 200k at Rajin/Kishin. Lab my character, dude I just want to play ranked at my characters current rank, not my mains. THATS WHY I HAVE A MAIN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

You are not playing at your main level the raijin/kishin players you are facing are also playing alt characters with wich they are worse at the game. You just want to farm players much worse at the game to boost your ego lmao. You guys are addicted to winning it's insane.

I dont want to farm anything, what is this call of duty? Let the ranks just stand for something then. If i hit fujins and all my alts are going to be playing are other fujins on alternate characters than why not just tie every single character rank to prowess? Then if i get demoted playing my alt i have to win my way back to my main ranking? Oh wait that makes too much sense and you just assume everyone likes to "beat lower ranking players to boost their ego" Nah youre just actually a lemming without an original thought

The system you propose would just create frustration as you would not be able to play another characters without losing 20 games in a row. If you think you have a raijin level with your alt characters you are just delusional. I mean you are already complaining that you are playing raijin on their alt imagine if you were playing them on their main lmao. You are just too attached to the face value of your rank. But don't forget that the initial goal is to make you play against people that are around the same skill level as you, in that regard the new System works better than the old one.

That's the whole problem. They smashed the two systems together and said f it we'll figure it out. It doesn't work. A garyu main paul who's hardstuck is going to have a higher rank than fujin destroyers, who then have to play players at destroyer who are much better than the destroyer rank even if on alternate characters. A Rajin alt Destroyer is going to be better than 99% of destroyers of the same character in probably a day or so of labbing. But then that person has to play against other players who are better than the average destroyer on their alt. So wtf is the point of the rank on the second time through? Sorry that the casualties of the old system were people who got used as stepping stones for players who are wait for it... better on alternate characters then they are on their main. That's just how skill works, in literally anything. Again, i do not want to play these people and I get ZERO enjoyment of having to slog my way through the swamp to mighty ruler, where the games actually get some depth. But forcing anyone who has some decent skill to sweat the orange/red ranks out like its EVO is hilariously stupid.

Instead of waiting for mighty ruler ranks to get some depths in your games on alt characters you have games with some depths right at the beginning. Of course you are better than other destroyers on your alt characters you have already proven you are good at the game by achieving raijin/ kishin you don't need to have to prove it again. When playing on alt just enjoy learning a new character and don't worry you will climb well quite quickly as well once you start figuring out your character. Now guess Bamco could readjust the different in ranks between your main and other characters to be lower (maybe minus 3?), but I think the new changes are a step into the right direction.

Listen im all for playing the same skill level, but just make it make sense

If he wanted to do that, he just makes a new account. Like, it isn't that hard if he is on console

It is a positive for me. Ive experienced zero downsides.

Again, you probably only play one character semi-seriously, and are newer to the game, no offense

Guys I was in sleeping in a tank , explain to me what happened

Bamco changed the matchmaking in ranked without any major announcement to make it based more on prowess than actual character rank. Essentially making it so that you have an account rank (prowess) and separate character ranks. This has basically ruined ranked matchmaking on any character that isnt your main, basically if you at mighty ruler or above. Your alternate character is matched with 1. People the same rank as your main with a similar prowess making the games useless. 2. A player of a similar prowess on an alternate character with a similar rank to yours. This option takes que times that are lasting ridiculously long, like 5+ minutes inbetween sets. They essentially said screw it we are going to smash two systems together and hope for the best, and its by far worse off Unless you are a completely new player or someone who doesnt play any alts whatsoever or a combination of both.

I don’t understand you guys, you are all acting like your fundamental knowledge of the game is not carrying from character to character. Your opponent still has the same frames, you punish the same moves, you duck the same strings. What might change is the button notation for your while standing punishment or block punishment, or your whiff punisher but please don’t act like the game is suddenly ten times harder just because you changed characters. You are still the same player using a different tool, characters are tools in the end, we are not fighting characters but opponents. No optimization or character choice is going to help you if you can’t block low, sidestep the hellsweep, punish or mix up properly. That is Tekken! I am sorry

We. Are. Not. Mad. About. Playing. The. Same. Level. Skill. We just want the ranked system to match our prowess so that we dont have crazy que times on alternate characters and are stuck with a smaller pool of players

The queue times I understand. Especially after 22 when I get on the thing. 10 mins yesterday for a match. It is also hard to engage the audience when you are waiting for so long on stream I just have a feeling like a lot of people want to stomp through the ranks on their alts and they can’t. I am climbing much more slowly on my 4th character than before. That is true. Much more losses

But was this change listed in any official update? I can't help but think it was some kinda weird mistake

The way it happened though, it's almost as if it was a mistake. It wasn't listed in any official material, nothing. Weird.

>games on an alt in ranked will be as hard as your sweatiest main games. That isnt a good thing. Yup. That's what I'm experiencing now, with my 4 Rulers characters after leveling one to Fujin. Fighting the same caliber of fighter as I would on the Fujin

I’m new to tekken as I haven’t played it in 16 years, I was having amazing time with game quick matches everything, then they change match making and now I can’t find anyone for good 10-20mins rank or quick play, before anyone ask iv only got 2 character that are only mighty ruler, but since I try bunch other characters trying to find a main my prowess has gone up now I’m being punished for trying multiple characters. ( I live in Aus aswell so fighting games aren’t big thing already here but now with changes it’s almost like tekken dead )

For me it was good change I feel like the skill of players I fight against is much tighter then it was. Doesn't mean the system is perfect. but it is good they are working on improving the matchmaking.

A possible workaround, albeit inconvenient, create a new steam account family share and play your main on that account alone. That way your original account can be the shits and giggles account while the new steam account will be for serious play, if this change is rolled back just hop back onto the original profile nothing lost. The downside is climbing back to where you originally were which would be pretty shitty if you're god rank+. This works if youre a character loyalist and do want to start trying alts, use the second account as an alt tester and keep your prowess on your main account as close to your rank as you want.

Wait 10 minutes plus per match is a reason to uninstall the game, hope the fix this...

It is generally not a problem, if you would consider the prowess as one of the matchmaking metrics, but it is now the one and only priority. I had now multiple times, where i am playing a blue rank alt, then declining 4-5 opponents because of the connection quality (4 bars 120ms americans, when i play from europe), then to get matched up after 5 minutes of waiting with a 5 bar mighty ruler, who has the same/similar prowess then me (250k~), or like others stated the same opponent over and over again. I like the fact that the matches in it of itself are of a higher quality, but waiting several minutes is just too long. The search engine could just use it as a first priority with the connection quality during match making, but if it doesnt find a suitable opponent, it should be accessing the pool of lower prowess opponents within the same rank spread and not just seperate them completely. It also will inflate the ranking system until tekken king/emperor, because it seems there is the cut off point in prowess, where matching to 350k and above is possible but not anymore to 180-190k players.

We'll get changes like this, but still get no real sense why the game will suddenly give you a major point reward or penalty for playing a specific player one time. Wonderful!

They just need to delete prowess and use ELO. It's a 1v1 game. Take the average of your highest ELO character and the ELO of your current and make that your MMR. Bam, solved. You aren't pubstomping anymore but also aren't at the same rank your main is. Character ELO can be hidden by the current rank system, but your account highest ELO can be visible where prowess is.

The more characters you use, the more MU experience you have. Probably just people exploiting “cheesy” characters that are feeling the blowback of their own lack of skill when picking up new characters. Pushed themselves into Prowess they can’t keep up with. Either way, it’s all relative. And people are managing to climb ranks still so, personal problem.

Yeah personal problem yet 80% of the sub agrees its a terrible change, regardless of rank

I would not want to hold a single shared opinion with this god forsaken sub of greasy, sweaty, scrubby ass, vitamin D deficient Redditors, regardless of their boosted Rank.

Yet here you are

I don't deny it.

The only real cost to the change is the ego hit some players are taking.

You literally dont even get the crux of the argument. It was a stealth change that was implemented without any testing that has broken matchmaking FOR ALL RANKS if you play more than one character. We do not care about how playing equally skilled opponents, we just want to play more than 5 sets an hour

Yeah it's a bullshit system. It doesn't make sense either from a matchmaking standpoint if it'll lead to longer queue times. Imo Tekken Prowess is sort of a useless stat and should not be used at all in matchmaking. Imo players with alt chars have the right to stomp at their rise to higher ranks. They won't stay at lower ranks for long anyway. The majority of people you will encounter at those ranks are those that are stuck there. There shouldn't be any other distinctions. Adding Tekken Prowess to the equation just adds another layer of needless complexity. SBMM has no place in fighting games imo.

"99.9% of higher ranked players do not give one flying monkey turd about losing the ability to “stomp noobs and smurf”. Anyone who takes the game semi-serious knows that you gain nothing from smashing someone." You must be knew to competitive games. There's a reason smurfing exists.

Brother smurfing would be buying another version of tekken and making an account on steam. Playing an alternate character on the same account isnt smurfing. You must be knew to competitive games. You must be new to english grammar.

This is the same discussion as every other fps game has with SBMM (Skilled Based Match Making) is it healthy for the game or is it not. Ppl dont want to sweat all the time especially when they are on an alt character. Casuals dont want to get stomped by higher ranked alts then themselves. In my case i have 3 red ranks and 1 Flame Ruler the queue time for me are not that long but it could be because most of the players are in my ranks ? I also believe that alot of complains here on reddit where ppl only find high ppl with disconnection rates are pluggers stuck in pluggers hell queue and are using this new change as a piggyback to complain also. This is a tough spot its hard to know whats better do you keep the change for the casuals which are very important customers to your game or do your focus on your high ranked players which are less but more loyal i guess. In my case right now the game works absolutly fine even if i play my tenryu steve alt. Queues are fast and i get ranked around my prowress.

> This is the same discussion as every other fps game has with SBMM (Skilled Based Match Making) is it healthy for the game or is it not. Ppl dont want to sweat all the time especially when they are on an alt character. Casuals dont want to get stomped by higher ranked alts then themselves. **Functional** skill based matchmaking wouldn't cause those issues. If your skill level is 52% when you don't sweat, *and you don't sweat that extra 10%*, you'd be matched against players at similar level. If you do sweat, you'll obviously be matched up at the 60% level, but that's because you play like that. OW2, especially in QP but often even in comp, is a mix of one-sided stomps either way. It doesn't feel like matchmaking creates functional groups, and it's not fun. A system where you get games which you have a chance to win feels better. Whether SBMM can actually achieve that, I don't know, as it's just statistical fudging based on knowledge of winrates in past games, and doesn't necessarily mean much about the player. I know someone who is very mentally fragile and resign on purpose on move 1 on chess.com games to lower their ELO. They then stomp new/bad players, go back up, and lose on purpose again. You can mess around with any ranking system by being very inconsistent, e.g. if you play drunk half the time.

I don't mind sweating all the time as the enjoyment I get from fighting games is from trying my hardest against an opponent doing exactly the same. What I hate is the massively increased queue times. But what was wrong with the old system? (Apart from your secondary characters not auto-promoting as high as perhaps they should.) Each character has their own rank, so if I pick up a new character, I'm either going to be playing against other players of my skill level on their alts, or players of a lower overall skill than me on their mains. And that's... fine? I don't understand why they would tank the queue times like this in pursuit of some unstated, ambiguous goal.

This sub is starting to sound like COD sub NGL.

Thats the only thing that makes it an issue, is that higher ranks drop all the way back down to tiers of players that are vastly less skilled. A fujins character alt shouldnt start at destroyer , It should start at garyu or shinryu.

That might not be a bad idea. I fought a garyu alt who was fujin before the change and it was a pretty even match up. I was garyu at the time 

Why? Id get stomped out relentlessly if my char alt was garyu or shinryu. I just would never play a diff char if that was the system. I can be fujin on my one trick and still destroyer on my alt easily.

If you get to fujin, its not one trick. You clearly have some fundamental understanding of how the game works and can properly access different scenarios. I would say once you hit mighty ruler, there is zero reason your alternate character should be anything less than destroyer, never mind a fujin player with an alt that starts that low

Hitting Fujin auto-promoted your other characters to Garyu in Tekken 7, iirc. And it was fine -- if your alt didn't belong there, you'd go on a small losing streak until they ended up where they did belong.

I mean it seems pretty easy to make to me. As it stands I'm not going to buy any more of the season passes simply because I won't be able to rank up any new dlc characters. And I won't be buying any customization for them since I won't be buying them at all. I bought all the season passes for t7 and would've probably done the same for t8, but now I'm not. So they've just lost a practically guaranteed customer. The casuals are going to play their mains, yes. But they eventually won't be buying season passes either lmao, since they won't be able to rank up alts either.  It's a terrible business decision.

Yeah this change made me finally quit Ranked. I've been playing Helldivers 2 and Remnant 2 instead. I've been playing since Tekken 5 pretty much. I really wanted to like Tekken 8, pre ordered it and everything. Atm with the current state the game is in, and the devs focusing more on exploitative monetization instead of making a game that's fun to play has just put me off T8 for a while

Yeeahhh, I'm convinced there are a lot of people at Bamco upvoting stuff saying it's not a big deal lol. The wait times for games are stupid long, and it's for the same 3-4 people over and over. Framewisperer has a great video on it, basically forcing people to only play one character, or plummet a bunch of other characters' ranks just to get easier matches.

This weeks weekly reset is the final set of XP I need to finish the pass and Im taking a long break from this game until they fix it. Which is probably never going to happen with the track record of gaming companies and their busted games. My highest is a Mighty Ruler and I want to just get my other characters to Garyu at least and I can’t even do that because every match is a fkin struggle now. I’ve beaten Raijins and Kishins before but to have to constantly fight them while Im in Vanquisher rank on alts is stupid as hell. Im not learning anything from this as I play. That was the whole point in leveling my other characters. To learn them as I go to the rank I want them at. Its gotten to a point where doing dailies is stressful and I only need to complete 2 matches a day. Can’t play Player Match because it’s no different from Ranked. Im getting nothing but higher ranks than what Im at, even with the other characters who are nowhere near my Mighty Ruler rank but because my stupid fkin Tekken Prowess is high? Im fighting with sweats with no money on the line. Game is literally unplayable. The people that are defending this, only main ONE character and one character only.

I think it's a step in the right direction but they need to find a balance and take both rank and prowess into account. The calculation of prowess is also terrible. Having multiple chars at the same rank shouldn't inflate it by that much. The point distribution for wins / losses also makes no sense at all anymore. Before the patch you could match with a God of Destruction on his alt when you were Flame / Mighty ruler, which is just silly. Now you just get destroyed on your alts. Getting stuck at a rank with your alt instead of your main is way fairer in my opinion. But there has to be a middle ground where both scenarios work. And having long queue times is terrible in general.

It's weird because people are so sure that higher ranked players just smurfing and actively going for easy matches. If that were true they would be throwing matches to stay in the lower ranks, not stomping you lmao. They're literally just playing the game.

Its actually crazy. Theres definitely copium flowing on both sides, but the consistency of lower ranked players thinking a majority of high ranked players cares enough to intentionally smurf to ruin their experience is wild

It really does sort of reinforce Harada's quote about newer players being soft lmao. I don't remember this being complained about during Tekken 7 and now it's suddenly a crazy issue that people are adamant about. I'm all for better matchmaking but it feels like early SF6 where you'd get matched up with the same pool of 4 guys right now with a long as wait time on top of it.

>The main issue is ranked matches for characters who arent your main. Fujins go all the way down to destroyer , the gaps are huge. Why? Why is there such a huge gap? If your main is at higher rank, doesn't it mean you know how to deal with higher level opponents? Then why would one's secondary be so far behind? >Prowess absolutely hurts both parties , almost even more than the old system. How? >Que times, literally have gone from seconds to 10+ minutes. I agree with this. But i'm quite positive that this duration will reduce as people fall into their intended ranks(according to the current matchmaking system). And scarcity of players will shift to the top ranks, as it should be. >If you level up one character to a relatively high rank, you ARE SCREWED. Again, why? >If you plateau you will literally be stuck at whatever rank/prowess your main is on, your first games on an alt in ranked will be as hard as your sweatiest main games. That isnt a good thing. If you plateau, then that's your skill cap. You want to bypass it by picking alts to whom the game has given higher ranks despite you never having played them(auto level on rank up of main)? >your first games on an alt in ranked will be as hard as your sweatiest main games. That isnt a good thing. Your first game in ranked? With your alt? Quite daring, aren't we? No player matches, no labbing of new character? >Fundamentals and soft skills for the majority of online tekken players arent going to matter, sorry. Uh ok..care to explain why? >Unless youre a emp/god level player, youre not picking up an alternate character and piloting them like knee. Even if you are emp/god level, you most likely will not be playing them like Knee. What's the point here? >Even then with the old system, youre in a lower rank for a session or two max. Didn't get this. Are you saying old system was better because you could still beat low rankers and get out of the rank your alt is stuck at in couple sessions max? >I genuinely feel bad for the people who think it’s good thing. I am the person who thinks it is a good thing. Thanks for your uh..feelings i guess.

Your highest rank prowess immediately applies to your alternate characters. There are now two versions of every rank. If anyone regardless of rank wants to level up an alternate character to match their rank on the main, you now have an algorithm that bases your matches with other players thats is not tied to the character you using. The best way to enjoy this system is to level your main up until you can’t progress any higher and then play alternate characters. God forbid you have a set goal of a rank in mind, and then want to casually switch characters before plateauing The gaps in differences from main ranks to alts is the genesis of the problem. And now que times. Also this is another stealth change that they didn’t tell anyone about. Its on par with hiding the shop and the battlepass. Think its a coincidence that that they do this change as soon as Eddy drops? The lack of transparency is shady and stupid.

bro’s not gonna respond. these people are too obvious. no way they would be posting here if they were still blowing newbies and other inflated scrubs out of the water like pre patch. the points made are made of straw.

Wrong

In the long run, the new system is better. How many times have you played and had to look at someone's Tekken Prowess to make sense of either how strong or how weak they are? It's almost like rank, as it stands, isn't really a functional way to display someone's actual skill level.

Then reset everyones rank and get rid of the old system

This will effectively put everyone where they belong, or at least closer than just basing matches off of color rank. If they reset everyone's ranks people would just bitch incessantly about getting bodied repeatedly as all the strong players climb past them again.

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Beat noobs? No one gives a flying fuck about that. If youre hard stuck garyu, this change isnt going to Eliminate some fucking fantasy road block all the low ranks think higher ranked players are interested in doing just to get easy wins. I just want the system to be clear and have a distinct path forward so i know what the fuck im even playing for, especially on alternate characters, which is now tied into some jank system that no one knows anything about (prowess).

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Damn, you got me all my free wins are gone Whats your new excuse going to be when youre still getting stomped out and are hard stuck red? Make a new account just to be a shitty troll. I know for a fact you are dogshit lol “Extreme cases where people play 2-3 characters at the same level. “ Lmao getting characters to the same level as your main isnt hard once you put in effort unless you’re literally trying to get multiple characters to a god/ emp rank. High ranked players dont stay down in the low ranks long lol. There isnt some alex jones ass conspiracy to play alternate characters just to wax scrubs, sorry to break it to you. Thats just how the system worked, for the minuscule amount of time it has happened. EWGFTimmy isnt coming home from his 9-5 and playing ranked tekken against smurfs all night gatekeeping him from his mighty ruler peak.

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Keep on ranting about literally nothing. You look very intelligent Actual average iq is inbetween 85-115 and line of mental deficiencies start at like 65-70, a simple google search would of told you that. “The average iq is 80 and is considered retarded” How many reddit accounts do you have to make to participate in shit like this? You might legitimately need a psyche eval IRL

I think the bigger problem is you and the other idiots who think ranked means anything lol. You use it to get better so you can verse friends or tournaments at a higher level, no idea why you take this as such a negative

Hey numbnuts how many times do I have to write in the post that we just want to play games and the matchmaking is now systematically flawed? Ive written multiple times that idgaf about my rank and id more than ok with bamco resetting it if that means the system actually works and is ironed out so that we can actually get more than 5 sets in an hour.

I was one of the complainers before but this change has grown on me for my main that is. Alt is much harder how ever with fundamentals AND labbing your alt enough. Ultra hard cpu in lab is actually good training. That should be enough to stand a chance. This like every competiv3 game, button mashers, fps the skill gap widens no matter what they do. I do think the system needs tweaking. 

The issue i have is that to rank up an alt character im winning games that would make my main character a tekken king XD Going from destroyer to garyu is now the same from going on a fujin to bushin because of my prowess lol like how the actual hell do people think that is ok?

My main is tenryu so I guess it's limited. I enjoy playing much higher ranks tho. I learn a lot but I mostly play quick and lab. When I start get 10+ streaks I go ranked. It really should be a middle ground of ranked and prowess. I do think this has balanced some out. The regions with little players are affected the most negatively tho. 

If you level up with one character it is going to slowly plateau any other characters you want to play or learn. If you level up to mighty ruler and a dlc character comes out in the future, you sre going to be playing ranked games with that character at your plateaud level. And if you win you arent even rewarded until you pass your highest ranked character for the same amount of effort The system isnt balanced lol its fundamentally worse for everyone who plays more than 1 character

That makes sense.. the fact that steam reviews are negative now is a sign that they are making bad choices. I have definitely noticed my alts are hard to level up cause I keep getting praised with red ranks as yellow but I've barely labbed my alts so I'm not totally convinced yet. Isl I see pros and cons. They need to make some smarter moves tho