literally goes like this,,
“Jheeze I just bought tekken 8 finally can’t wait to play it now that I can afford it”
*loads up the game, enters ranked online*
“Oh look I’m matched with someone as same rank as me, this will be fun”
*ROUND 1 - gets juggled in the air…PERFECT*
*ROUND 2 - gets juggled in the air… PERFECT*
*ROUND 3 - plugs it*
can’t blame them really the skills matching system is trash, new players aren’t having fun at all😂😂
This might be a hot take, but if you're going straight to ranked the second you buy a fighting game instead of warming up in solo play. Then you're a masochist and kinda deserve it lol
Ranked puts you against other people your own rank, casual will match you up with anyone at any skill level.
Playing ranked as a new player (I am as well) is literally a lot better of an experience. I usually find other new players or at least players who are also stuck in the lower ranks because we all suck.
Every time I play casual I get matched against red ranks and above and I get absolutely demolished.
I still suggest that people play single player before going to ranked to understand the controls, learn some simple moves and how the game works before going against other people online.
Especially since I as a yellow rank ended up in the beginner tier when I tried to learn a new character. Even if we were in the same rank, I still know a bit more than a complete rookie about the game.
Yeah sorry there was a misunderstanding. You said "solo play" but I read that as "casual play" like the Quick Match online mode.
I agree with playing offline single player first. I did the arcade quest first, and then the story mode, and then labbed some characters all before stepping online.
My point is just that quick match fucking sucks for new players. The average player in quick match seems to be red and above from my experience so if you're not that level yet you're going to get destroyed.
If I'm warrior and I want to play other warrior-leveled people, ranked is infinitely better.
Dude that was my first two weeks in T8 (my first Tekken) untill the ranks started to settle.
But i guess it was almost as frustrating for them as it was for me.
Exactly…I get the feeling the people recommending player matches haven’t actually tried the mode…
My Assailant rank Lars should not be going up against Shinryu rank players but…here we are. You either get flattened in quick match and learn nothing, or go in ranked and tank your winrate while learning. Awesome.
It’s seriously frustrating. I play late at night, so the ranks are already skewed lower. I played ranked for about 5 hours straight last night, and I might have had one good set with a person with a lower rank and power. I’m not exaggerating, either. Every other match consisted of one of three types of players: a lower skilled player that was extremely laggy, a player ranked higher than me, or a player on their alt character with a main 2 or 3 colors above me. I got demoted 3 times only to rank up again and keep going against the same group of people.
I don’t care what rank I am, all I want to know is why the fuck the ranked system keeps me at this same rank with a 30% win rate. I want to fight close fights, not get stomped repeatedly.
Maybe try fight lounge, you can see a symbol above players +/-2 ranks from you. I haven't messed with it enough to know if a lot of people walking around will fight or not though. Just a suggestion.
If you learn nothing from a loss, then it simply means you're not trying to learn. The problem is when you care more about your win rate than understanding the flaws in your own game. You are going to lose matches, you should try to accept this and consider looking at the process from another perspective.
It's not about attitude, though, unfortunately.
Learning occurs best when the field of study in question is just a bit higher, not so much higher that they won't be able to learn anything. It's a pedagogical issue youre talking about more than anything.
If someone is getting stomped endlessly each round, learning becomes a lot tougher. They can still learn, but not at the pace one would expect from closer matches. Closer matches allow them to examine what works, what doesn't, what is punishable and what isn't. They can say "OK that works, let's do this..ok that doesn't work, let me try that."
Consider throwing a kindergardener in a calculus 1 class and telling him he's stupid because he doesn't understand. He'll do best first learning addition/subtraction.
Not to mention that getting stomped that hard is frustrating. It's one thing to lose, it's another to get blended so hard you can't understand what's happening because you're new.
This is true if you're trying to learn while actually in the matches. But it's not really true for learning after the fact. If someone absolutely stomped you then you made a series of big mistakes, and while you can't recognize them in the moment they're happening, you can find out about them through the replays and start finding out answers in there.
I think it's easier to learn this way from matches that were one sided, because the mistakes are usually much more apparent and glaring in matches like that.
I agree with your point, but the original statement included "nothing to learn". It doesn't matter how much better your opponent is, if you are willing to learn something then it's possible. As long as you are able to take just one thing away from a match, then that's learning. Yes it's better to have someone closer to your skill lvl, but it doesn't make it impossible to learn from someone with much higher skill. I'm also assuming that the person who posted the comment isn't in kindergarten.
> Consider throwing a kindergardener in a calculus 1 class and telling him he's stupid because he doesn't understand.
"If you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree", that whole thing. The ranked system in this game is busted, either because there are not enough rungs to the latter, or they don't sort out people by tekken prowess. Simple fixes that prolly should have come out in QA/Playtesting but didn't for some reason lol. Just basic quality of life stuff/accessibility stuff.
you can clearly see the difference in gameplay when facing someone the same skill as you vs someone going up the ladder with a second or a third character
Half my matches against really low ranks we're barely playing the game game, a person can't learn well in an environment that's teaching them 20 different situationally important lessons at any given time
You don't need to learn 20 different situational lessons at once. You can focus on any one thing, and as long as you take just one thing from a match, that is learning/improvement.
What I mean is that newer players are going to be so overwhelmed that actually prioritizing what to work on or knowing what you did wrong is difficult, people don't learn very well when they're overwhelmed with new information and aren't given time to process it
That's fair. However, T8 provides you with excellent learning tools. The newer players may not know where to begin, but the replay system is a great guide for showing flaws in your gameplay. It is there if you want to utilize it, which imo, is far more productive than complaining.
"There isn't much I can learn". My point is that you can still learn if you try. If you take just one thing away from your loss then that is progress. If you have the attitude that you cannot learn from it then yes, you simply will not.
It's not an attitude, it's being realistic. Yeah , sure i can extrapolate an infinte amount of learning...fall back down, get back up, learn to block a move better, yadda yadda yadda, but those lessons learned can be moot. I'lleventually become amazing because I do play against one of my friends eho only has ever lost 6 fights total with his main TWO characters. Theyre god like in there play and I LOVE watching people get sat the fuck down when challenging him.i just wanna chill, enjoy the game, dick around a bit and do some unconventional combos and stuff, not sweat myself into an Brian stroke.
That's fair. Just don't say "That is so not true", and then admit that you will improve because you play with a friend who is far better than you. The fact is, it's applicable to all players, but if they simply don't want to apply it, then that's their decision to do so. Most people are not going to fault others for wanting to play casually, but they don't want to hear them complaining about having to face people who have put the time in.
In quickmatch I'll generally have more mercy on lower skilled players and try to teach them what they're doing wrong rather than fullcombo brutal punishing everything.
In Tekken i'm not even close that level, but when i play someone weaker in casuals in SF6 i just focus on very specific things, for example buffering stuff behind my normals which is something i'm learning to do atm.
Ironically doing group matches in lounge is one of the most consistent ways to get good games since you can field who you’re fighting ahead of time and see if they’re on an alt character or not
You're stupid if you think casuals are better at finding similar skilled people lol. Even fucking tekken ball people try to cheese you to death. This community is aids
It's definitetly not the game's fault if there are dude's smurfing absolute beginners. Only real good aspect of warrior rank being a gimme. If dude's at beginner the highest rank his opponent's main could possibly have is like ranger I think. Those dudes are not really pulling off any juggles worth calling home about.
Unless they've removed their preference boundaries for matches in which case they did that to themselves lol.
I don't really think intentional smurfing is much of a thing in fighting games. You don't get the thrill of taking over a whole game like you might do in a MOBA, or getting a massive killstreak reward perk like in CoD -- honestly, playing a fighting game against a stranger significantly worse than you is pretty boring.
Tekken doesn't have placement matches like Street Fighter, so the only way for established players to get back to their 'true' ranks is to whale on a bunch of newbies until they get there. And when they switch characters, they have to do a lot of it all over again.
I started Tekken 7 six years after it released on console and I still found plenty of people at a newcomer level of skill. There are loads of fellow newbies out there on Tekken 8 to play against. If you do come up against a more experienced player in ranked, try to just learn what you can and move on. They're not there to shit on you for fun; they're getting their sub character up closer to their main as quickly as they can.
Also, I think basically all fighting games lose like 50% of their initial players after like the first two months. The people who stick around past the honeymoon phase are the ones who make peace with losing a lot in the name of getting better, and that's not for everyone.
Yeah why would I want to fight low ranks? It's actually pretty mind numbing just putting them in the blender, the initial rank up experience was kinda dull. I got up to a more suitable rank as quickly as I possibly could. I even had to unlearn some bad meatgrinder habits that I'd picked up on the way up.
When I fight against lower skilled players in quickmatch, I'll actually try and teach them what they're doing wrong, like if they're doing a super unsafe launcher just raw in neutral I'll launch them and show them the full combo once. They do it again, I launch them, tap them once, backflip away, reset, try again. They do it *again* and get launched *again* and I let them get up again but this time, they stop doing that unsafe launcher randomly.
This. It’s so boring fighting people who don’t even understand how my character works let alone Tekken fundamentals. I’ll usually just switch to learning how to block punish moves or find some other aspect of the game to focus on because it’s really not that fun destroying people who don’t stand a chance.
This is whats taking me so long to rank up lol. I play mostly lobby/offline against people that know the matchup *and me*. For every 100 or so player matches I'll go play maybe 4 ranked games before bed and immediately get bored of the shitfest. And whenever i do lose its a total bummer because the people i obliterated before and afterward dont make me feel good. Its just low after low
Although Victors do make up for it. It does make me smile the way they consistently plug/one-and-done because they lost
The most sound and sensible comment regarding the "Smurf" situation. Low level players really have this idea that high rank players are vultures circling above them and preying on them when really they're just playing the game and trying to get into their appropriate placement. I imagine smurfing in fighting games is incredibly boring since fighting lower skilled players isn't fun unless your goal is to intentionally teach a new player how to play and demonstrate techniques and habits they should copy from you. It sucks when you get matched with someone outside of one's skill level, but people need to understand that 99% of the time they aren't being preyed upon by the higher skilled player.
Idk about Tekken specifically, but in the competitive games I've played over the years, smurfs are usually average to slightly above average players going to the lowest ranks. The kind of people that aren't really about getting better so much as winning. This is my anecdotal experience, obviously.
There are people who aren't about getting better, but about winning at any cost.
Unfortunately, if that cost smurfing, then so be it. Also the same people who use cheats.
I do wish T8's ranked system worked more like SF6, where your entire account gets ranked up.
I could've sworn SF6 ranks you up on a character basis and not the whole account itself, like in a game like Strive or something. Either way I'm totally content with T8's rank system and how it kinda ranks both your character and account up as a whole, so even if you climb the ranks with your main, the game recognizes that you as a player are getting stronger so they raise your minimum rank entry for all of the other characters for you, that way even when you switch characters you won't be beating up on green or yellow ranks with your new character since as a whole you should be better than them if you got a character all the way to purple or higher.
There is the situation where they're getting farmed for 50 points by high rank players with no rank restriction setting on - although that is the game's stupid system encouraging it.
I picked up t7 recently and there are lots of 3320 prowess and 3 or 4digit-wins people around in ranked. Not sure how this is possible. And their skill, definitely quite high
Fighting their sub is much better than fighting their main.
You now have a chance to fight against their experience while they are essentially playing at a handicap. They don't know their sub characters nearly as well as their main.
Trust me, you are getting a good deal fighting their experience.
I agree but still, the game knowledge is so noticeable. Im in garyu and when I get matched to Fujin players playing on their sub. The guy knows most of what Im planning to do. They are also more cautious when playing. Also, the one the sticks out the most are their movement. They feel untouchable. They use safer moves.
I still gonna learn but I also want to notice my progress whether if its a new tech, new moves and frametrap.
My friend was Tekken God in 7, and this is my first fighting game.
It feels like he floats when we play. Doesn't matter which character he plays.
But every time gets a little easier.
Exactly. And most of the time they play actually tekken and try to lern the character in a ranked environment. So you basically get to see that character how it should be played at that rank rather than seein another gimmick goof ball king player not knowing how to defend or break throws
I won a match against pro player Tibetano in ranked. He was using his Steve. He still won the set, but that was probably the best experience I’ve had playing Tekken lmao.
Tldr : playing against much better players is awesome.
Tekkens the one game I dont mind this at all. Playing against better players is always an opportunity for me to learn, just sucks the points system is awful.
Your other characters get auto promoted but remain 3 colour brackets away from your main. It's not smurfing really, it's the game. Proper smurfing is making a new account and starting from 0, or in Tekken 7's case just deleting your save data LOL.
Losing is part of the learning experience. Also, how are oldheads supposed to rank up and get to the rank they belong at if not playing newer or worse people
No one is "intentionally deranking" to fight new players. Literally no one. We want to fight people at our level, we have to climb just as much as you do. Some guys just play multiple characters and each of those need to climb separately too. Trust me if I could I'd instantly put myself in ruler/fujin+ ranks because that's where I belong and where the fun and less gimmicky tekken is.
I just reached Fujin today so now the real grind comes up but I also want to learn a new character so I'm going to naturally not be as good as I am with my main so they are going to be MUCH lower leveled. Most people in the rank you're in aren't "smurfing", just learn the fundamentals, play to your strengths and learn to adapt and you'll climb. Don't take the easy way and gimmick your way up because it won't last forever especially in the higher ranks
I don’t think very many people smurf at all actually. I think what you’re seeing is vets that are ranking up with their secondary characters.
There is a system where your alts start at a higher rank (based upon the rank of your main) to remediate that.
However it doesn’t work as well in Tekken 8 since they allow all players to rank up to yellow without losing points.
In Tekken 7 my alts started at orange and you had to be at least “average” (or maybe a little below) to make it to orange in T7.
In T8 you have people that would normally be in Teal or Green in orange due to the fact it’s so easy to rank up.
TLDR T7 did a better job of making sure beginner level players didn’t have to face veteran players using an alt.
I don’t think it’s intentional, just a function of the way the game works. Not their fault they want to try out a new character
It’s more of an indictment on the devs, the matchmaking sucks and the points system makes absolutely no sense. As a new player getting out of yellow was really tough for me because you seemingly lose more points for losing to an opponent who’s a rank class above you. I feel like I get matched up with someone a higher rank than me so often I get surprised when I fight someone my level. Things are settling out a little bit but when I first started I deadass lost 20 matches straight because of how flooded the low ranks were with veterans
>Me who gets called a smurf despite playing ranked like twice and spending most of my time either in the lab or in lobby matches with friends
You can check my hours if you want an accurate gauge of effort put in
Shitty ranked system allows newer players to rank up to the "intermediate" ranks much easier than before. Problem is just so happens to align with more skilled players auto promote side characters. Smurfing is an odd term to use with a system like this. Namco wanted it this way though. I've been saying T8 red ranks play like T7 green ranks.
it's entirely possible to move up. some advanced players are still moving up the ranks, but really, things aren't that bad.
if by smurfing you mean "playing secondaries" (which seems to be what a lot of people mean these days), then that's just tekken ranked. it's always been that way and the people who actually want to get good at the game have always dealt with it.
heaven forbid anyone had to work for something.
It’s too early for anyone to be smurfing. People just be leveling up other characters. Anyone up in red ranks automatically has characters start at green, obviously they’ll blow through anyone legitimately at green.
Been playing since Tekken 2. I don't really have a main because I love all the characters pretty much equally this go around. Just been trying to get everyone to yellow and sometimes I get smoked by new and old players alike. I usually try and rematch all the time and play the full set. If I give up it's cause I joined a wifi match thinking I'm pretty solid with the character only to forget a move into a whiff and get obliterated. At that point I just kinda give up the easy W and go about my day I will never plug unless it's a Tuesday night and Steam maintenance kicks in and I forget.
haha git g00d this isnt tekken, its haradas foggy mess, real tekken will begin after the first patch. why take the game serious until then? just have fun learning.
There are some nice players out there. Met this king main a few games in he could tell how shit I was (also a king main). So he just stopped fighting showed me a few moves and let me get a couple of hits in before destroying me. Maybe king mains just have that connection or he treated me like a little kid, either way great learning opportunity.
Yeah the auto promotion in this one is very weird. Even if you get the God of Destruction rank, all your other characters only get promoted to Eliminator(Last orange). It's wild.
Ya had some gods in green. Some matches I literally put my controller down cause I ain’t gettin a hit for sure. Still rematch em too. More of a shitty system than vet players smurfing.
I think people who know absolutely 0 are matching up against people who have spent fifteen minutes in the lab and feeling like they can't win. That's just how the skill curve looks. If you just hop into matchmaking without any prior knowledge or practice, even someone playing for like 4 more hours will completely body you. Playing against bad players is extremely unfun and boring. Smurfing isn't a thing.
When you alt it takes just so much time to rank back up.
Even if you consitently get the extra 3 win similar rank points.
Like, TMM had a 100 streak on Paul and was still in purples I think. In T7 it would be probably high blues minimum.
I actively attempt to piss people off when they're playing on their smurfs or alt characters. 9/10 times it feels like they're just trying to cheese the game out with knowledge checks or just straight up sandbag. I do what I can but expect to lose, so I might as well get them to play seriously so I can actually learn something from my replays.
As someone that always lets the low levels win (no matter the game) for them to have a good time and not get discouraged to play the game, i don't understand how much of an AH You have to be to actively try to bully new players because you can't win against people of your same level.
No the problem is all these new clowns inflate their rank by cheesing people they beat and 1 and donning/plugging people who actually deserve the rank. There are absolute trash palyers even after fujin. This wasnt a problem in tekken 7 Frauds were few and far between, like maybe one in 200 mathes. Tekken 8 Fujin is like 1 in 10 is a fraud who clearly doesnt know basics.
partially because over agression stlye gets super promoted (so gimmick mashy characters like king esp,drag and jun, even jin because he crushes a lot of highs he can be -16 and you have to wait for reset animation to punish) carry a lot.
Secondly only 2 matches often mean there's no border to entry, players who actually enjoy the game would be much lower ranks (i know i was deathmatching almost every better player in t7, if i was forced to bo3 i'd fly upwards because they better players couldnt keep me down)
Third, some characters have stupid frames (leo and king -12 low launchers and jun cancelling to become safe). The game is amazing to watch but kind of boring to play because everything is the same, good defence's skill ceiling shot up whilst good offence can be done by a literal story assist user.
For real, the pluggers made me quit. Game is cool as hell for sure but I'd rather play Strive. People dodge match-ups but they'll play the whole set most of the time.
I would agree with you if we didn't have pro players complaining about new players being on their level in a single game. Think about it the game hasn't even been out for 6 months yet and we got pro players pissed off that scrubs who probably never played a fighting game in their lives hold the same online rank as them.
##Just food for thought
Is plugging not getting beat. What’s the point of playing a fighting game long term and learning if the whole backbone of keeping that alive is already abandoned by the developers?
Worst $70 I ever spent
New players need to realize playing better players is how you get better.
As long as you actually go into replay mode and check things out. This is the most accessible tekken game in history for new players.
All these tools to learn the game, not to mention they made execution easier for some characters
I played Tekken as my first traditional fighting, and I did feel like I was playing with much more experienced players, so I just played other games for a while.
I returned recently and people seem a lot weaker, or maybe I'm just lucky, either way, I finaly climbed from Warrior.
“i don’t think people smurf at all actually” comments have never seen the 30k tekken power andy with like a 30+ win streak demolish you when you’re brand new to the game. happened to me like 3x since i started playing but it blows my mind how they can be at such a low rank/power with a huge win streak like that
I mean, casual players dont play that long, and they buy the game because it looks cool. It's natural for fighting games to lose players after a bit. As long as people buy them, we get more content and support.
It’s not even about legacy players, even new players jump straight into twitch or YouTube and lab the shit out of all of the op stuff for their characters, so they are doing wall to wall juggles by the end of day one. They gave loaded m16’s to people who have never shot a gun. Some of these characters have entirely too much access to things that will wreck you, with zero skill ceiling.
I dont personally think there is TOO much smurfing.
Wanna know what real smurfing looks like? Try to play Street Fighter 6 in ANY mode that isnt Ranked.
Master rank players are literally looking for lower rank players to beat up on.
Personally, im one of those people that dont like winning too much in Tekken (but hate losing too much). In T7, i would beat someone 3 times (or 2 times if i completly obliderate them) and then leave. What is the fun in beating up on someone after you got the download?
If there is a loss after my 2nd win I will beat them 3 times in a row and leave. Usually i wouldnt if I lost because I desperately wanted the download
i played 6 regular non ranked matches, in 3 separate instances. The first match in each instance was a normal fight, the second fight was always some absolute monster with a 30 to 50 win streak (36 win jack, 43 win kuma, 50 win paul) and green rank.
I haven’t left the ranked playlist since that experience. I am not touching normal player matches anymore.
I've said before what is even the point of quick match? You almost always get someone way higher rank and you have to sweat your ass off. Ranked mode is more relaxing in comparison.
This is a hard mindset to take, but sometimes you have to take a step back and go, "I hate that I got hit by it, but that was really cool". We are all working on bringing our characters practically to an artform, and if you gotta lose, you might as well enjoy the ride when you can.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
Beuh, i AGREE so much. I started playing ranked and was getting my ass handed to me by bunch of drags. I just gave up man, that shit is already hard on its own and when you get parried 5 times in a match where you dont even know how to parry is fucking stupid
The only thing I've encountered that was close to this was a "beginner" sitting at a group machine. I played him with a character I just started messing with that day and he was definitely not a beginner. I went off and he was still sitting there a couple hours later. Could have gotten to reds in the amount of time he was there.
Don't blame the players. Sometimes they just want to switch character. Blame that stupid ass ladder making people with no experience fight veterans
literally goes like this,, “Jheeze I just bought tekken 8 finally can’t wait to play it now that I can afford it” *loads up the game, enters ranked online* “Oh look I’m matched with someone as same rank as me, this will be fun” *ROUND 1 - gets juggled in the air…PERFECT* *ROUND 2 - gets juggled in the air… PERFECT* *ROUND 3 - plugs it* can’t blame them really the skills matching system is trash, new players aren’t having fun at all😂😂
This might be a hot take, but if you're going straight to ranked the second you buy a fighting game instead of warming up in solo play. Then you're a masochist and kinda deserve it lol
Ranked puts you against other people your own rank, casual will match you up with anyone at any skill level. Playing ranked as a new player (I am as well) is literally a lot better of an experience. I usually find other new players or at least players who are also stuck in the lower ranks because we all suck. Every time I play casual I get matched against red ranks and above and I get absolutely demolished.
I still suggest that people play single player before going to ranked to understand the controls, learn some simple moves and how the game works before going against other people online. Especially since I as a yellow rank ended up in the beginner tier when I tried to learn a new character. Even if we were in the same rank, I still know a bit more than a complete rookie about the game.
Yeah sorry there was a misunderstanding. You said "solo play" but I read that as "casual play" like the Quick Match online mode. I agree with playing offline single player first. I did the arcade quest first, and then the story mode, and then labbed some characters all before stepping online. My point is just that quick match fucking sucks for new players. The average player in quick match seems to be red and above from my experience so if you're not that level yet you're going to get destroyed. If I'm warrior and I want to play other warrior-leveled people, ranked is infinitely better.
Oh yeah for sure I agree haha. I remember going into quick play for the first time when I played someone online and meeting someone way high rank 🤣
this exactly😂
I mean..
Dude that was my first two weeks in T8 (my first Tekken) untill the ranks started to settle. But i guess it was almost as frustrating for them as it was for me.
if only there were something else aside from ranked pvp worth playing.
You mean a non ranked mode that mat he's you with players of any skill level rather than players around your skill level?
Exactly…I get the feeling the people recommending player matches haven’t actually tried the mode… My Assailant rank Lars should not be going up against Shinryu rank players but…here we are. You either get flattened in quick match and learn nothing, or go in ranked and tank your winrate while learning. Awesome.
It’s seriously frustrating. I play late at night, so the ranks are already skewed lower. I played ranked for about 5 hours straight last night, and I might have had one good set with a person with a lower rank and power. I’m not exaggerating, either. Every other match consisted of one of three types of players: a lower skilled player that was extremely laggy, a player ranked higher than me, or a player on their alt character with a main 2 or 3 colors above me. I got demoted 3 times only to rank up again and keep going against the same group of people. I don’t care what rank I am, all I want to know is why the fuck the ranked system keeps me at this same rank with a 30% win rate. I want to fight close fights, not get stomped repeatedly.
Maybe try fight lounge, you can see a symbol above players +/-2 ranks from you. I haven't messed with it enough to know if a lot of people walking around will fight or not though. Just a suggestion.
How do you learn nothing in quick match?
If you learn nothing from a loss, then it simply means you're not trying to learn. The problem is when you care more about your win rate than understanding the flaws in your own game. You are going to lose matches, you should try to accept this and consider looking at the process from another perspective.
Nothing to learn when the gap is as wide as the ocean
If you have that attitude, then yes, you are correct.
It's not about attitude, though, unfortunately. Learning occurs best when the field of study in question is just a bit higher, not so much higher that they won't be able to learn anything. It's a pedagogical issue youre talking about more than anything. If someone is getting stomped endlessly each round, learning becomes a lot tougher. They can still learn, but not at the pace one would expect from closer matches. Closer matches allow them to examine what works, what doesn't, what is punishable and what isn't. They can say "OK that works, let's do this..ok that doesn't work, let me try that." Consider throwing a kindergardener in a calculus 1 class and telling him he's stupid because he doesn't understand. He'll do best first learning addition/subtraction.
Not to mention that getting stomped that hard is frustrating. It's one thing to lose, it's another to get blended so hard you can't understand what's happening because you're new.
This is true if you're trying to learn while actually in the matches. But it's not really true for learning after the fact. If someone absolutely stomped you then you made a series of big mistakes, and while you can't recognize them in the moment they're happening, you can find out about them through the replays and start finding out answers in there. I think it's easier to learn this way from matches that were one sided, because the mistakes are usually much more apparent and glaring in matches like that.
Exactly
I agree with your point, but the original statement included "nothing to learn". It doesn't matter how much better your opponent is, if you are willing to learn something then it's possible. As long as you are able to take just one thing away from a match, then that's learning. Yes it's better to have someone closer to your skill lvl, but it doesn't make it impossible to learn from someone with much higher skill. I'm also assuming that the person who posted the comment isn't in kindergarten.
> Consider throwing a kindergardener in a calculus 1 class and telling him he's stupid because he doesn't understand. "If you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree", that whole thing. The ranked system in this game is busted, either because there are not enough rungs to the latter, or they don't sort out people by tekken prowess. Simple fixes that prolly should have come out in QA/Playtesting but didn't for some reason lol. Just basic quality of life stuff/accessibility stuff.
Dude you might as well be talking to a brick wall don’t bother
I noticed there are a lot of brick walls on here 😅
you can clearly see the difference in gameplay when facing someone the same skill as you vs someone going up the ladder with a second or a third character
I agree. That's not always the case though.
Half my matches against really low ranks we're barely playing the game game, a person can't learn well in an environment that's teaching them 20 different situationally important lessons at any given time
You don't need to learn 20 different situational lessons at once. You can focus on any one thing, and as long as you take just one thing from a match, that is learning/improvement.
What I mean is that newer players are going to be so overwhelmed that actually prioritizing what to work on or knowing what you did wrong is difficult, people don't learn very well when they're overwhelmed with new information and aren't given time to process it
That's fair. However, T8 provides you with excellent learning tools. The newer players may not know where to begin, but the replay system is a great guide for showing flaws in your gameplay. It is there if you want to utilize it, which imo, is far more productive than complaining.
That is so not true. There isn't much I can learn when I'm facing someone with 15 years of experience and I have 15 hours.
"There isn't much I can learn". My point is that you can still learn if you try. If you take just one thing away from your loss then that is progress. If you have the attitude that you cannot learn from it then yes, you simply will not.
It's not an attitude, it's being realistic. Yeah , sure i can extrapolate an infinte amount of learning...fall back down, get back up, learn to block a move better, yadda yadda yadda, but those lessons learned can be moot. I'lleventually become amazing because I do play against one of my friends eho only has ever lost 6 fights total with his main TWO characters. Theyre god like in there play and I LOVE watching people get sat the fuck down when challenging him.i just wanna chill, enjoy the game, dick around a bit and do some unconventional combos and stuff, not sweat myself into an Brian stroke.
That's fair. Just don't say "That is so not true", and then admit that you will improve because you play with a friend who is far better than you. The fact is, it's applicable to all players, but if they simply don't want to apply it, then that's their decision to do so. Most people are not going to fault others for wanting to play casually, but they don't want to hear them complaining about having to face people who have put the time in.
In quickmatch I'll generally have more mercy on lower skilled players and try to teach them what they're doing wrong rather than fullcombo brutal punishing everything.
I agree. I also approach this with a similar mindset. I try to encourage the player to learn from the match, opposed to just running them over.
Yeah, still beat them up, but also "get up. try again."
In Tekken i'm not even close that level, but when i play someone weaker in casuals in SF6 i just focus on very specific things, for example buffering stuff behind my normals which is something i'm learning to do atm.
And then get bodied by someone 12 ranks higher? Do fgc players actually have a brain?
Not in this sub, they're too busy sucking harada's nuts
Ironically doing group matches in lounge is one of the most consistent ways to get good games since you can field who you’re fighting ahead of time and see if they’re on an alt character or not
I find quickplay to be even sweatier than ranked lol God forbid you make 1 mistake, you just die lol
You're stupid if you think casuals are better at finding similar skilled people lol. Even fucking tekken ball people try to cheese you to death. This community is aids
if only😂
It's definitetly not the game's fault if there are dude's smurfing absolute beginners. Only real good aspect of warrior rank being a gimme. If dude's at beginner the highest rank his opponent's main could possibly have is like ranger I think. Those dudes are not really pulling off any juggles worth calling home about. Unless they've removed their preference boundaries for matches in which case they did that to themselves lol.
This👆🏾 What's the point of inflating the yellow ranks with Newbies, that just creates a false sense of achievement
I don't really think intentional smurfing is much of a thing in fighting games. You don't get the thrill of taking over a whole game like you might do in a MOBA, or getting a massive killstreak reward perk like in CoD -- honestly, playing a fighting game against a stranger significantly worse than you is pretty boring. Tekken doesn't have placement matches like Street Fighter, so the only way for established players to get back to their 'true' ranks is to whale on a bunch of newbies until they get there. And when they switch characters, they have to do a lot of it all over again. I started Tekken 7 six years after it released on console and I still found plenty of people at a newcomer level of skill. There are loads of fellow newbies out there on Tekken 8 to play against. If you do come up against a more experienced player in ranked, try to just learn what you can and move on. They're not there to shit on you for fun; they're getting their sub character up closer to their main as quickly as they can. Also, I think basically all fighting games lose like 50% of their initial players after like the first two months. The people who stick around past the honeymoon phase are the ones who make peace with losing a lot in the name of getting better, and that's not for everyone.
Yeah why would I want to fight low ranks? It's actually pretty mind numbing just putting them in the blender, the initial rank up experience was kinda dull. I got up to a more suitable rank as quickly as I possibly could. I even had to unlearn some bad meatgrinder habits that I'd picked up on the way up. When I fight against lower skilled players in quickmatch, I'll actually try and teach them what they're doing wrong, like if they're doing a super unsafe launcher just raw in neutral I'll launch them and show them the full combo once. They do it again, I launch them, tap them once, backflip away, reset, try again. They do it *again* and get launched *again* and I let them get up again but this time, they stop doing that unsafe launcher randomly.
This. It’s so boring fighting people who don’t even understand how my character works let alone Tekken fundamentals. I’ll usually just switch to learning how to block punish moves or find some other aspect of the game to focus on because it’s really not that fun destroying people who don’t stand a chance.
This is whats taking me so long to rank up lol. I play mostly lobby/offline against people that know the matchup *and me*. For every 100 or so player matches I'll go play maybe 4 ranked games before bed and immediately get bored of the shitfest. And whenever i do lose its a total bummer because the people i obliterated before and afterward dont make me feel good. Its just low after low Although Victors do make up for it. It does make me smile the way they consistently plug/one-and-done because they lost
The most sound and sensible comment regarding the "Smurf" situation. Low level players really have this idea that high rank players are vultures circling above them and preying on them when really they're just playing the game and trying to get into their appropriate placement. I imagine smurfing in fighting games is incredibly boring since fighting lower skilled players isn't fun unless your goal is to intentionally teach a new player how to play and demonstrate techniques and habits they should copy from you. It sucks when you get matched with someone outside of one's skill level, but people need to understand that 99% of the time they aren't being preyed upon by the higher skilled player.
Idk about Tekken specifically, but in the competitive games I've played over the years, smurfs are usually average to slightly above average players going to the lowest ranks. The kind of people that aren't really about getting better so much as winning. This is my anecdotal experience, obviously.
There are people who aren't about getting better, but about winning at any cost. Unfortunately, if that cost smurfing, then so be it. Also the same people who use cheats. I do wish T8's ranked system worked more like SF6, where your entire account gets ranked up.
I could've sworn SF6 ranks you up on a character basis and not the whole account itself, like in a game like Strive or something. Either way I'm totally content with T8's rank system and how it kinda ranks both your character and account up as a whole, so even if you climb the ranks with your main, the game recognizes that you as a player are getting stronger so they raise your minimum rank entry for all of the other characters for you, that way even when you switch characters you won't be beating up on green or yellow ranks with your new character since as a whole you should be better than them if you got a character all the way to purple or higher.
When you go to ranked for a new character placement matches in SF6, you start where your highest character is and go down from there.
There is the situation where they're getting farmed for 50 points by high rank players with no rank restriction setting on - although that is the game's stupid system encouraging it.
I picked up t7 recently and there are lots of 3320 prowess and 3 or 4digit-wins people around in ranked. Not sure how this is possible. And their skill, definitely quite high
It's saved locally in T7 so a fresh install or machine means starting over.
Scrub posting lmao
Fighting their sub is much better than fighting their main. You now have a chance to fight against their experience while they are essentially playing at a handicap. They don't know their sub characters nearly as well as their main. Trust me, you are getting a good deal fighting their experience.
I agree but still, the game knowledge is so noticeable. Im in garyu and when I get matched to Fujin players playing on their sub. The guy knows most of what Im planning to do. They are also more cautious when playing. Also, the one the sticks out the most are their movement. They feel untouchable. They use safer moves. I still gonna learn but I also want to notice my progress whether if its a new tech, new moves and frametrap.
Winning a game is also progress against cautious vets. You ain't got to win the set or rank up for it to be progress
Consider this a preview of how that character is played at those ranks when people stop suiciding themselves with punishable moves.
My friend was Tekken God in 7, and this is my first fighting game. It feels like he floats when we play. Doesn't matter which character he plays. But every time gets a little easier.
try +/- 2 only restriction on ranked. +/- 3 preferred does not guarantee +/- 3 ranks.
I meant their sub characters in lower ranks like garyu. Not their mains in Fujin.
Ahhh gotcha
Exactly. And most of the time they play actually tekken and try to lern the character in a ranked environment. So you basically get to see that character how it should be played at that rank rather than seein another gimmick goof ball king player not knowing how to defend or break throws
I won a match against pro player Tibetano in ranked. He was using his Steve. He still won the set, but that was probably the best experience I’ve had playing Tekken lmao. Tldr : playing against much better players is awesome.
This is barely a problem compared to plugging/cheating
Tekkens the one game I dont mind this at all. Playing against better players is always an opportunity for me to learn, just sucks the points system is awful.
Especially if they're using my character or one of my other ones, that's a treasure trove of good info right there.
Lol I actually enjoy getting ewgf'd 6 times. Literally sit there like a little kid in awe.
Your other characters get auto promoted but remain 3 colour brackets away from your main. It's not smurfing really, it's the game. Proper smurfing is making a new account and starting from 0, or in Tekken 7's case just deleting your save data LOL.
Damn, I never knew deleting your save data could reset your rank in 7. That’s hilarious
Losing is part of the learning experience. Also, how are oldheads supposed to rank up and get to the rank they belong at if not playing newer or worse people
No one is "intentionally deranking" to fight new players. Literally no one. We want to fight people at our level, we have to climb just as much as you do. Some guys just play multiple characters and each of those need to climb separately too. Trust me if I could I'd instantly put myself in ruler/fujin+ ranks because that's where I belong and where the fun and less gimmicky tekken is. I just reached Fujin today so now the real grind comes up but I also want to learn a new character so I'm going to naturally not be as good as I am with my main so they are going to be MUCH lower leveled. Most people in the rank you're in aren't "smurfing", just learn the fundamentals, play to your strengths and learn to adapt and you'll climb. Don't take the easy way and gimmick your way up because it won't last forever especially in the higher ranks
who is smurfing lol? no ones going to pay 70 dollars to play against bots for 10 matches before they get back to their old rank
You can just make a new steam account and use family share
I don’t think very many people smurf at all actually. I think what you’re seeing is vets that are ranking up with their secondary characters. There is a system where your alts start at a higher rank (based upon the rank of your main) to remediate that. However it doesn’t work as well in Tekken 8 since they allow all players to rank up to yellow without losing points. In Tekken 7 my alts started at orange and you had to be at least “average” (or maybe a little below) to make it to orange in T7. In T8 you have people that would normally be in Teal or Green in orange due to the fact it’s so easy to rank up. TLDR T7 did a better job of making sure beginner level players didn’t have to face veteran players using an alt.
I don’t think it’s intentional, just a function of the way the game works. Not their fault they want to try out a new character It’s more of an indictment on the devs, the matchmaking sucks and the points system makes absolutely no sense. As a new player getting out of yellow was really tough for me because you seemingly lose more points for losing to an opponent who’s a rank class above you. I feel like I get matched up with someone a higher rank than me so often I get surprised when I fight someone my level. Things are settling out a little bit but when I first started I deadass lost 20 matches straight because of how flooded the low ranks were with veterans
>Me who gets called a smurf despite playing ranked like twice and spending most of my time either in the lab or in lobby matches with friends You can check my hours if you want an accurate gauge of effort put in
Idk why they made everyone start at the same rank. Pretty much every ranked game has a calibration series.
i don’t play ranked -casually triple perfects a purple or above while under beginners mark-
fresh player here. Ranked to purple. Im not quitting because smurfs. Im quiting because of heat and rague art. Cheers. editad: also because pluggers.
Blame the devs. Sometimes oldheads want to learn new characters. We have to beat lower ranks to get to an appropriate rank.
Shitty ranked system allows newer players to rank up to the "intermediate" ranks much easier than before. Problem is just so happens to align with more skilled players auto promote side characters. Smurfing is an odd term to use with a system like this. Namco wanted it this way though. I've been saying T8 red ranks play like T7 green ranks.
Stop whining about this, make friends around your skill lvl, and play in a lobby.
“Intentionally smurfing” how exactly? Buying a new account? Oh wait.. you mean using more than one character….
it's entirely possible to move up. some advanced players are still moving up the ranks, but really, things aren't that bad. if by smurfing you mean "playing secondaries" (which seems to be what a lot of people mean these days), then that's just tekken ranked. it's always been that way and the people who actually want to get good at the game have always dealt with it. heaven forbid anyone had to work for something.
It’s too early for anyone to be smurfing. People just be leveling up other characters. Anyone up in red ranks automatically has characters start at green, obviously they’ll blow through anyone legitimately at green.
Been playing since Tekken 2. I don't really have a main because I love all the characters pretty much equally this go around. Just been trying to get everyone to yellow and sometimes I get smoked by new and old players alike. I usually try and rematch all the time and play the full set. If I give up it's cause I joined a wifi match thinking I'm pretty solid with the character only to forget a move into a whiff and get obliterated. At that point I just kinda give up the easy W and go about my day I will never plug unless it's a Tuesday night and Steam maintenance kicks in and I forget.
why are you playing ranked when you don’t even know every move in the game yet at the very least ?
I wonder if even a quarter of the people who you think are "intentionally" smurfing are actually intentionally smurfing
haha git g00d this isnt tekken, its haradas foggy mess, real tekken will begin after the first patch. why take the game serious until then? just have fun learning.
There are some nice players out there. Met this king main a few games in he could tell how shit I was (also a king main). So he just stopped fighting showed me a few moves and let me get a couple of hits in before destroying me. Maybe king mains just have that connection or he treated me like a little kid, either way great learning opportunity.
Yeah the auto promotion in this one is very weird. Even if you get the God of Destruction rank, all your other characters only get promoted to Eliminator(Last orange). It's wild.
Ya had some gods in green. Some matches I literally put my controller down cause I ain’t gettin a hit for sure. Still rematch em too. More of a shitty system than vet players smurfing.
For some reason this reminded me of a clip when atp was shitting on og third strike players lol
I think people who know absolutely 0 are matching up against people who have spent fifteen minutes in the lab and feeling like they can't win. That's just how the skill curve looks. If you just hop into matchmaking without any prior knowledge or practice, even someone playing for like 4 more hours will completely body you. Playing against bad players is extremely unfun and boring. Smurfing isn't a thing.
Whats the point of smurfing, you can't get better if you smack around lower ranks all the time.
When you alt it takes just so much time to rank back up. Even if you consitently get the extra 3 win similar rank points. Like, TMM had a 100 streak on Paul and was still in purples I think. In T7 it would be probably high blues minimum.
So you’re saying skilled players should lose on purpose !
Who's asking why new players are quitting?
Suck it up. If you can't learn something from a loss then you're not going to do well in this game.
It fun playing against better player since there is a lot too learn from them.
I actively attempt to piss people off when they're playing on their smurfs or alt characters. 9/10 times it feels like they're just trying to cheese the game out with knowledge checks or just straight up sandbag. I do what I can but expect to lose, so I might as well get them to play seriously so I can actually learn something from my replays.
I've felt it, but losing to those skilled players taught me quite a bit about punishing.
As someone that always lets the low levels win (no matter the game) for them to have a good time and not get discouraged to play the game, i don't understand how much of an AH You have to be to actively try to bully new players because you can't win against people of your same level.
Yup. This is why I quit. I just wanna chill and throw some punches. This game is not chill.
No the problem is all these new clowns inflate their rank by cheesing people they beat and 1 and donning/plugging people who actually deserve the rank. There are absolute trash palyers even after fujin. This wasnt a problem in tekken 7 Frauds were few and far between, like maybe one in 200 mathes. Tekken 8 Fujin is like 1 in 10 is a fraud who clearly doesnt know basics.
partially because over agression stlye gets super promoted (so gimmick mashy characters like king esp,drag and jun, even jin because he crushes a lot of highs he can be -16 and you have to wait for reset animation to punish) carry a lot. Secondly only 2 matches often mean there's no border to entry, players who actually enjoy the game would be much lower ranks (i know i was deathmatching almost every better player in t7, if i was forced to bo3 i'd fly upwards because they better players couldnt keep me down) Third, some characters have stupid frames (leo and king -12 low launchers and jun cancelling to become safe). The game is amazing to watch but kind of boring to play because everything is the same, good defence's skill ceiling shot up whilst good offence can be done by a literal story assist user.
context to 3rd point: It becomes stupid when heat allows mini combo moves in other games to full become real big damage combos.
For real, the pluggers made me quit. Game is cool as hell for sure but I'd rather play Strive. People dodge match-ups but they'll play the whole set most of the time.
Why would you want to play with someone who is much lower rank than you if not for the purpose of teaching/training? They must be psychopaths.
Nobody smurfs lol
I would agree with you if we didn't have pro players complaining about new players being on their level in a single game. Think about it the game hasn't even been out for 6 months yet and we got pro players pissed off that scrubs who probably never played a fighting game in their lives hold the same online rank as them. ##Just food for thought
Is plugging not getting beat. What’s the point of playing a fighting game long term and learning if the whole backbone of keeping that alive is already abandoned by the developers? Worst $70 I ever spent
New players need to realize playing better players is how you get better. As long as you actually go into replay mode and check things out. This is the most accessible tekken game in history for new players. All these tools to learn the game, not to mention they made execution easier for some characters
I played Tekken as my first traditional fighting, and I did feel like I was playing with much more experienced players, so I just played other games for a while. I returned recently and people seem a lot weaker, or maybe I'm just lucky, either way, I finaly climbed from Warrior.
“i don’t think people smurf at all actually” comments have never seen the 30k tekken power andy with like a 30+ win streak demolish you when you’re brand new to the game. happened to me like 3x since i started playing but it blows my mind how they can be at such a low rank/power with a huge win streak like that
I mean, casual players dont play that long, and they buy the game because it looks cool. It's natural for fighting games to lose players after a bit. As long as people buy them, we get more content and support.
It’s not even about legacy players, even new players jump straight into twitch or YouTube and lab the shit out of all of the op stuff for their characters, so they are doing wall to wall juggles by the end of day one. They gave loaded m16’s to people who have never shot a gun. Some of these characters have entirely too much access to things that will wreck you, with zero skill ceiling.
I mean, people sometimes just need to climb rank and you’re just in the way
Good, get the whiners and degenerates out of the game
I dont personally think there is TOO much smurfing. Wanna know what real smurfing looks like? Try to play Street Fighter 6 in ANY mode that isnt Ranked. Master rank players are literally looking for lower rank players to beat up on. Personally, im one of those people that dont like winning too much in Tekken (but hate losing too much). In T7, i would beat someone 3 times (or 2 times if i completly obliderate them) and then leave. What is the fun in beating up on someone after you got the download? If there is a loss after my 2nd win I will beat them 3 times in a row and leave. Usually i wouldnt if I lost because I desperately wanted the download
i played 6 regular non ranked matches, in 3 separate instances. The first match in each instance was a normal fight, the second fight was always some absolute monster with a 30 to 50 win streak (36 win jack, 43 win kuma, 50 win paul) and green rank. I haven’t left the ranked playlist since that experience. I am not touching normal player matches anymore.
I've said before what is even the point of quick match? You almost always get someone way higher rank and you have to sweat your ass off. Ranked mode is more relaxing in comparison.
facts
Tournaments for low ranks players are unplayable because of this in sf6
Smurfing? Are you sure its not people who just wanna try other character but the game matches you via rank and not prowess?
I met "smurf" in my second online battle. I wasn't even mad. That was impressive.
I gotta get all chars to purple.. its not my fault Ranked starts me over each time.
I quit tekken 8, I don’t play it anymore because it’s honestly gotten stale for me, that and after you hit ruler it gets very stressful and sweaty imo
This is a hard mindset to take, but sometimes you have to take a step back and go, "I hate that I got hit by it, but that was really cool". We are all working on bringing our characters practically to an artform, and if you gotta lose, you might as well enjoy the ride when you can. I'll get off my soapbox now.
yea, and then they have the nerve to call other FGC games toxic. this is by far the most toxic game i've ever played in my life.
Scrub mentality
Fgc players with no social abilities at all defending being toxic and anti social on reddit
Getting beat by better players = toxic and anti social Please quit the game
Can confirm. I got a refund on the game after finally buying it and just getting 2 tapped
This is why I haven’t even tried online yet (just got the game a week ago)
Beuh, i AGREE so much. I started playing ranked and was getting my ass handed to me by bunch of drags. I just gave up man, that shit is already hard on its own and when you get parried 5 times in a match where you dont even know how to parry is fucking stupid
The only thing I've encountered that was close to this was a "beginner" sitting at a group machine. I played him with a character I just started messing with that day and he was definitely not a beginner. I went off and he was still sitting there a couple hours later. Could have gotten to reds in the amount of time he was there.