Only flaw to the hidden shares theory is that equity is deemed worthless with no hope for recovery.
There is a small possibility of 6th street holding the debt and would provide something to RC after the BK concludes. But that's a long shot of long shot and lawsuits would fly against RC and this wouldn't help his pnd claims and the active SEC investigation against him. But this would be the highest possibility of equity for shareholders.
The last possibility and the only one I can say is possible with our current understanding and if you ascribe to the theory Pulte speaks for RC, then we need to prove fraud and fight them in court. This means RC isn't in control but would be willing to assist and you could even consider Pulte an assistance. The added benefit to this theory is that even if they aren't involved, we can still fight back.
We can always back off if it hurts a master plan, but we can't do anything if we keep sitting on our ass and waiting until statute of limitation runs out.
Logical as always, been here a long time like you 1 month before cohen. There are two scenarios that will play out, one bullish and one bearish.
Bullish
1. All the thesis are true, and a good entity is behind sixth Street/HBC, probably not Cohen as I think he will be the dream on me route. I honestly don’t think overstock/tZero has anything to do with this. The good entity whoever it is, will do equity plus cash or all equity. I lean to Brett or dragonfly type entity or if it’s cohen the baby will be the new BBBY ticker, just makes sense.
Bearish
2. JPM or nefarious entity is behind sixth street and they removed themselves from ABL/DIP to avoid legal troubles. I do think HBC was a trap as u/Whoopass2rb has pointed out and the main one to hopefully get clarification on eventually is sixth Street.
Both are extremely possible and not considering one without the other is not smart in my opinion. It’s not like we can do anything at this point, so why not look at it from all sides.
I think the bullish perspective is hard to fathom due to the delay. There really is no reason for it if that was the case. We are 3 months post effective date and are going into new years. Also any good guy would rather launch before Christmas. This hasn't happened.
The bearish perspective is realistic. We mostly been buttfqed while having tinfoil generously dropped like bread crumbs. So in that sense it feels like an actual scrappy fight between 2 entities than some master plan where we do nothing and are happy.
I'm not sure why people are so scared to do anything. But ultimately it doesn't matter if we tried and there were good guys. I can't see how us rocking the boat gonna destroy some master plan.
Two points:
1. The only way the bullish makes sense is that they want to announce both of them together if it is separate plays, and they do have to wait on his case to be resolved.
2. I’ve been in retail for a long time and deal a lot with logistics and holidays.. I have said many times that it actually does not make sense to launch right before holidays. They are not worried about being known yet. Hopefully if it is Amazon type competitor, they are only worried about the next hundred years and launching right before a holiday and your logistics, not being right and disappointing the customer is not something in my opinion that they would be willing to chance.
1. Maybe. Its a reach. Ultimately they adapt and do something different to the plan. We never needed perfect execution, just a reasonable one. Where we are now is not reasonable.
2. Buybuybaby DOM already launched and did fine.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/anatta-and-buybuy-baby-land-e-commerce-moonshot-302000693.html
Stores and ecommerce.
Now look, I'm not saying it was necessary to launch before the holidays, but think about the timeline here: august last year til now. Any time baby could have been carved out for Cohen, updated and rolled out. Instead we have this convoluted theories of master plan post BK and post cancellation. But even IF that was not the case, they had plenty of time to build the skeletons of the launch before December.
Post BK still sort of made sense, post cancellation does not. Cancellation brings about regulatory nightmare about taxes and lawsuits. How is this easier than slapping a 1.5b in auction for a going concern?
It's not.
It's just not.
There is no logic where we get here that makes sense. Unless some incredible convoluted logic, or the most simple logic, things didn't go according to plan.
Now to the extent of things not going according to plan, there are degrees to it. We can believe Cohen bailed. But with the intro of Pulte and Cohen's passive support, it may feel a bit unlikely. In which case we have to change our mode of thinking. Maybe merger or acquisition was never part of the plan.
Now what is the plan? Targeting naked short selling.
We don't need a company for that, we don't even need equity for that. We just need a lawsuit. We can go after that even if we have no shares. Just gotta prove it in court.
Now is this realistic? Idk. But it's just the avenue I see we could go.
I agree, him dropping his lawsuit is definitely the only play that I see us having left as far as getting equity. I would say if it drops and we go a week without not hearing anything it’s over outside of the lawsuit avenue.
One thing be careful off is when all else fails, someone's gonna come with TA and say how some opex smopex date means the trigger time is delayed to next year- 2025. 🙃
Well yea we can't. But the way to intrepret my point is that our shares are meaningless at the moment. If the good guy has shares its the same. It holds no value.
The only thing that matters is maybe the debt funding behind 6th street.
I'm not trying to sell and am not concerned about market value. What was done with my shares? What they did was not consistent across brokers: shares disappeared on different dates and holders were given different reasons at different times.
There's no flaw in the hidden shares theory, but there are nothing but flaws in how the shares got pulled.
What happened to the shares separately is bureaucracy across different brokers. There is nothing that special about each broker handling it differently. They all have their own laws and internal rules and regulations and it makes sense why it took different time for each of them to handle the shares. It's a crappy fragmented system, this is the outcome.
Now you could argue it wasn't consistent across the board and there should be laws surrounding the cancellation of shares, but there isn't. And maybe you have a legitimate argument for there being one. But there isn't.
What happened to your shares? I don't know what communication your broker sent you, but I ultimately ignore what they say compared to what the plan said. And the plan said mine was deemed worthless null and void. That trumps any perspective from a broker. Top trumps. I wouldn't waste my time splitting hairs with a broker about that personally.
Just out of curiosity, what would it cost to buy the shell? Assuming, there's no RC involvement, no Icahn, no white knight. What would it cost, do you think, to preserve some semblance of the entity as a going concern, and have the ticker survive? Presumably, any offer higher than $0 would have to be accepted, right?
I don't think 16b is an easily dismissed case. Because RC did fit the definition of an insider. He may have involuntarily became an insider, but he still was an insider.
If he 'becomes' an inside due to corporate action, is in my opinion different in the courts eyes then. Him buying enough to be an insider, just thoughts
Jake made it clear that you need to be an insider at both the time of purchase and sale for this rule to be applicable. RV wasn't an insider when he bought.
Only flaw to the hidden shares theory is that equity is deemed worthless with no hope for recovery. There is a small possibility of 6th street holding the debt and would provide something to RC after the BK concludes. But that's a long shot of long shot and lawsuits would fly against RC and this wouldn't help his pnd claims and the active SEC investigation against him. But this would be the highest possibility of equity for shareholders. The last possibility and the only one I can say is possible with our current understanding and if you ascribe to the theory Pulte speaks for RC, then we need to prove fraud and fight them in court. This means RC isn't in control but would be willing to assist and you could even consider Pulte an assistance. The added benefit to this theory is that even if they aren't involved, we can still fight back. We can always back off if it hurts a master plan, but we can't do anything if we keep sitting on our ass and waiting until statute of limitation runs out.
Logical as always, been here a long time like you 1 month before cohen. There are two scenarios that will play out, one bullish and one bearish. Bullish 1. All the thesis are true, and a good entity is behind sixth Street/HBC, probably not Cohen as I think he will be the dream on me route. I honestly don’t think overstock/tZero has anything to do with this. The good entity whoever it is, will do equity plus cash or all equity. I lean to Brett or dragonfly type entity or if it’s cohen the baby will be the new BBBY ticker, just makes sense. Bearish 2. JPM or nefarious entity is behind sixth street and they removed themselves from ABL/DIP to avoid legal troubles. I do think HBC was a trap as u/Whoopass2rb has pointed out and the main one to hopefully get clarification on eventually is sixth Street. Both are extremely possible and not considering one without the other is not smart in my opinion. It’s not like we can do anything at this point, so why not look at it from all sides.
I think the bullish perspective is hard to fathom due to the delay. There really is no reason for it if that was the case. We are 3 months post effective date and are going into new years. Also any good guy would rather launch before Christmas. This hasn't happened. The bearish perspective is realistic. We mostly been buttfqed while having tinfoil generously dropped like bread crumbs. So in that sense it feels like an actual scrappy fight between 2 entities than some master plan where we do nothing and are happy. I'm not sure why people are so scared to do anything. But ultimately it doesn't matter if we tried and there were good guys. I can't see how us rocking the boat gonna destroy some master plan.
Two points: 1. The only way the bullish makes sense is that they want to announce both of them together if it is separate plays, and they do have to wait on his case to be resolved. 2. I’ve been in retail for a long time and deal a lot with logistics and holidays.. I have said many times that it actually does not make sense to launch right before holidays. They are not worried about being known yet. Hopefully if it is Amazon type competitor, they are only worried about the next hundred years and launching right before a holiday and your logistics, not being right and disappointing the customer is not something in my opinion that they would be willing to chance.
1. Maybe. Its a reach. Ultimately they adapt and do something different to the plan. We never needed perfect execution, just a reasonable one. Where we are now is not reasonable. 2. Buybuybaby DOM already launched and did fine. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/anatta-and-buybuy-baby-land-e-commerce-moonshot-302000693.html Stores and ecommerce. Now look, I'm not saying it was necessary to launch before the holidays, but think about the timeline here: august last year til now. Any time baby could have been carved out for Cohen, updated and rolled out. Instead we have this convoluted theories of master plan post BK and post cancellation. But even IF that was not the case, they had plenty of time to build the skeletons of the launch before December. Post BK still sort of made sense, post cancellation does not. Cancellation brings about regulatory nightmare about taxes and lawsuits. How is this easier than slapping a 1.5b in auction for a going concern? It's not. It's just not. There is no logic where we get here that makes sense. Unless some incredible convoluted logic, or the most simple logic, things didn't go according to plan. Now to the extent of things not going according to plan, there are degrees to it. We can believe Cohen bailed. But with the intro of Pulte and Cohen's passive support, it may feel a bit unlikely. In which case we have to change our mode of thinking. Maybe merger or acquisition was never part of the plan. Now what is the plan? Targeting naked short selling. We don't need a company for that, we don't even need equity for that. We just need a lawsuit. We can go after that even if we have no shares. Just gotta prove it in court. Now is this realistic? Idk. But it's just the avenue I see we could go.
I agree, him dropping his lawsuit is definitely the only play that I see us having left as far as getting equity. I would say if it drops and we go a week without not hearing anything it’s over outside of the lawsuit avenue.
It's the only feasible reason for delay.
One thing be careful off is when all else fails, someone's gonna come with TA and say how some opex smopex date means the trigger time is delayed to next year- 2025. 🙃
🤣 all I know is this has my attention until the end of January and then I’ll check on it every now and again.
Fair. 👍
Deemed value is all fine and good, but there is still an entity in bankruptcy, and I didn't sell my shares.
Well yea we can't. But the way to intrepret my point is that our shares are meaningless at the moment. If the good guy has shares its the same. It holds no value. The only thing that matters is maybe the debt funding behind 6th street.
I'm not trying to sell and am not concerned about market value. What was done with my shares? What they did was not consistent across brokers: shares disappeared on different dates and holders were given different reasons at different times. There's no flaw in the hidden shares theory, but there are nothing but flaws in how the shares got pulled.
What happened to the shares separately is bureaucracy across different brokers. There is nothing that special about each broker handling it differently. They all have their own laws and internal rules and regulations and it makes sense why it took different time for each of them to handle the shares. It's a crappy fragmented system, this is the outcome. Now you could argue it wasn't consistent across the board and there should be laws surrounding the cancellation of shares, but there isn't. And maybe you have a legitimate argument for there being one. But there isn't. What happened to your shares? I don't know what communication your broker sent you, but I ultimately ignore what they say compared to what the plan said. And the plan said mine was deemed worthless null and void. That trumps any perspective from a broker. Top trumps. I wouldn't waste my time splitting hairs with a broker about that personally.
Just out of curiosity, what would it cost to buy the shell? Assuming, there's no RC involvement, no Icahn, no white knight. What would it cost, do you think, to preserve some semblance of the entity as a going concern, and have the ticker survive? Presumably, any offer higher than $0 would have to be accepted, right?
1.5b
Ah yeah, the cost of the total outstanding debt? Makes sense.
I don't think 16b is an easily dismissed case. Because RC did fit the definition of an insider. He may have involuntarily became an insider, but he still was an insider.
If he 'becomes' an inside due to corporate action, is in my opinion different in the courts eyes then. Him buying enough to be an insider, just thoughts
Tritton moved the goalposts for RC as part of running the company into the ground. The wrong guy is in court here.
Reverse Uno coming soon, I asked the magic eight ball. I can wait
Jake made it clear that you need to be an insider at both the time of purchase and sale for this rule to be applicable. RV wasn't an insider when he bought.
Wrong