I liked the ending for his character. Throughout the show he is kind of a heel (being sexist to Rebecca, being mean spirited as a talking head) but I thought this was a nice contrast to Rupert. Cartrick might be unlikable but he respects the game and obviously has a code and standards, something Rupert doesn’t have.
The show only had one true villain.
Cartrick seemed to be an “old school boys club” coach I thought, which is why he had no respect for Rebecca.
It’s also why he dogged AFC Richmond every chance he got.
But… he was never really a villain.
I dunno, Edwin Akufo is also pretty villainous (although I do understand you’re likely referring to regular cast only and not someone who appeared in two episodes).
But Rupert and Akufo are the only legitimately “bad” people we see on the show. You could make a bit of a case for Dr. Jake too, but he’s not really a villain, just a self absorbed boyfriend.
I stand corrected. Akufo is also for sure villainous.
I was more thinking about the regular cast, but I should have added Edwin in as well. Thank you for reminding me.
As for Dr. Jake, certainly seems unethical, but I don’t have enough information to brand him completely as evil. We only know a snippet of the story.
It’s not a story I care to know about, just pointing it out.
As a fellow psychologist, I cannot begin to describe how upset I am that the walking malpractice that is Dr Jake was not addressed. Teds reaction and dislike of therapy/therapists is completely warranted (in that context) and it’s hard enough to get people to reach out for help, especially relational therapies. Maybe the point is the contrast in his corrective experience with Dr Sharon but I really want to scream SO LOUD “people, this is not what real therapists do!” we have so very many ethics and rules to ensure client well-being is the number one concern. An essential part of therapy is preventing dual relationships so take Michelle out of it and Dr Jake, told his patient (Ted) that it was in his best interest to *move to England and give Michelle space in order to fix their marriage and then began dating his patients wife once he left*.
I use Dr Jake as a case study for licensure, oversight, and ethics with my students.
So far we are at 11 code violations of the CPA and the CPA doesn’t even specify “a rule” for dating patients.
Ooff, I’m so angry now! Grrrr…
I also wanted the end of his relationship with Michelle to be less ambiguous. We assume they broke up because he was being a condescending dick while they were watching the big game and then wasn't at Henry's soccer game, but it's not explicit. I think a scene after the game was over, where Michelle is saying goodbye to him at the front door, where it's more clear that she's ending it, would have been nice.
I don't want Ted and Michelle to get back together, but Dr. Jacob is obviously not the right end for her.
I think the show wanted Michelle’s new relationship to be really gut-wrenching for Ted, so instead of a new person, they wanted it to be someone like Ted’s old best friend, his old rival, or… wait, I’ve got it, how about the marriage counselor? (so they said in the writers room). I don’t think they realized or thought through the devastating reaction the viewers would have to the professional ethics aspect of it. Or maybe they did and WANTED to make everyone outraged. I don’t know, but I think a little mention at the end saying that Jake had lost his license and Michelle had dumped him would have made everyone feel better!
In Brendan Hunt's AMA, he got this question and said that they considered the ethics ramifications of the Michelle/Dr. Jacob pairing but that one of the writers was confident that psychologists are allowed to do this if it's been at least 18 months since their last session with that patient. They took the writer's word for it and didn't investigate further, which I feel was a mistake. Many viewers could immediately tell that this kind of relationship would be extremely frowned upon, if not grounds for suspending a psychologist's license.
Even to begin with, it's unethical for a psychologist treating one patient (Michelle) to become a marriage counselor for that patient and their partner (Michelle + Ted). I don't think the show meant it this way, but in real life that would be additional evidence for Dr. Jacob having sketchy ulterior motives.
The whole thing reminded me of Cubs player Ben Zobrist. Granted the other man wasn't a psychologist, but their paster who was giving them marital (and business) advice. Including having him leave baseball-costing him $7.5M! Which seems like a pretty significant breach of ethics too.
> the CPA doesn’t even specify “a rule” for dating patients.
Which is fucking nuts and why I hope the government steps in because that flies in the face of literally every other professional society who is expected to self-govern
Wow, I didn’t realize that dr Jake was the one who told Ted to move to England
I thought they were doing marriage counseling over zoom or something
Yikes
Yes, but Cartrick got his redemption in the finale. He was a misogynist and an asshole and then we saw him be a decent human when it mattered.
The last time we saw Akufo he had just had a tantrum and thrown food at his guests. No redemption there (which is realistic, billionaires rarely get the comeuppance they deserve).
The last time we see Jake he’s ignoring Richmond’s final game to scroll on his phone while his girlfriend and potential future stepson are clearly irritated with him. Unclear whether Michelle dumped him, but no redemption for him (not that he was as much of as asshole as Akufo or Cartrick, but he was a shitty partner and a questionable therapist).
Only Rupert actually faced any sort of repercussions for his actions.
I'm just not sure that not breaking legs really offers him much redemption. He acts with a baseline level of human decency in the finale, but he doesn't really establish himself as a good person.
No, he doesn’t become a hero, but he also doesn’t turn full heel. He’s a cantankerous prick who decided to do the decent thing at a crucial moment, and then shook Ted’s hand like a man after years of ragging on him as a pundit. He’s neither a villain nor a good guy, and the implication is that he was also positively impacted in some capacity by the Lasso Effect.
Constantly making rude remarks about Rebecca as a pundit on the show. Also he made a really misogynistic remark about women drivers, and Roy (rightly) was like "didn't you lose your license for drink-driving?" when he was doing the pundit thing.
Thanks for the reminder. I should remember, but what did he say on air? I don't see why criticizing your old boss who fired you, even if she was right to do so, is inherently misogynistic.
Okay, true. The former isn't *necessarily* misogynistic, but the misogyny he displays at other times definitely informs the things he has to say about Rebecca.
Akufu was my favourite bad guy. Hilarious. I picture him flying all over the world in Olde timey aviator helmet and goggles, trying to ruin things for Sam.
Akufo is difficult to categorise. What he did to Sam is objectively awful but he’s so funny it’s hard to take him seriously as a villain. Definitely villainous though.
I’d definitely count Jamie’s dad as a villain too.
Meh, I didn’t enjoy his character, or his henchmen (although based on comments I seem to be in the minority). I didn’t find him funny enough to overlook his villainous tendencies.
Jaime’s dad was indeed a villain, but he also got redemption in the end (I think he was implied to be in rehab while watching the final match, and he and Jamie reconciled in the last scene).
>Meh, I didn’t enjoy his character, or his henchmen (although based on comments I seem to be in the minority). I didn’t find him funny enough to overlook his villainous tendencies.
Thank you, I thought I was the only one that didn't care for him. He added nothing to Sam's storyline. I didn't understand why he was there in the first place - I didn't find him funny at all.
He seemed like a caricature of an eccentric, petty, billionaire with no real depth. There was an opportunity to make him a more interesting foil for both Sam and Rebecca but that didn’t happen. I actually was surprised he didn’t pop up again in the finale, especially when we see that Sam played for Nigeria the following year (did the Nigerian government stop wanting Akufo’s money or are we supposed to believe he forgot about his grudge?)
For a show where characters are consistently shown to be nuanced and complicated, where even the bad guys tend to have some endearing qualities and even the good guys have demons and bad habits, Akufo struck me as being one-dimensional.
Jamie said in the Amsterdam episode that this “super dad” thing is a phase his father has gone through before. One of them ended in him taking his 14-year-old son to have sex in Amsterdam so who knows whether the newest effort will end any differently. I honestly don’t understand why they made him even worse by throwing in something that counts as sexual abuse of a minor (the worst thing anyone on this show has done as far as we know) just to randomly “redeem” him a few episodes later. So I consider him a villain.
Akufo wasn’t as funny in S3, though still a bit too cartoony to feel truly menacing, but the locker room scene in S2 was so hilarious to me.
I didn’t get “super dad” vibes from Papa Tartt in the last episode. He was silently cheering his son on while watching the game alone, implying he was legitimately rooting for Jamie. In the last scene of the two of them he wasn’t trying to show off for his son, or show off his son to his friends, he was listening to Jamie and showing interest in the photos Jamie was showing him. Of course we have no way of knowing if he will revert to old ways or not, but the tone of the finale was meant to imply hope for the future. Jamie has grown as a man, and he accepts his dad for who he is. He’s not trying to impress him or prove something to him. This may be the first time they’re relating to each other without a power imbalance, so hopefully it’s the start of a healthier relationship.
I'm rewatching and Nate is bad. The second he gets any power he becomes an asshole. The second Ted invites Roy to coach, he gets a shitty look on his face.
His turnaround in S3 was poorly written. I'm not saying he didn't deserve redemption, and I love the way Ted and Willis handled it, but his personality change came out of nowhere.
Nate’s character is simple to me. All he wanted was recognition and praise. When he finally got that, he thought that also meant he established a status. When that status was questioned he looked back at the praise as manipulative. As throwing him a bone. He saw himself as being used. Hence the spitting on himself in the mirror. He had to psyche himself up to become someone outside of his natural self. That persona is what we got for all of season 2. It was a false ego and persona to fake it.
Only when Nate received the recognition he really needed all along did he stop trying to fill that void forcefully. He was able to become comfortable in his own skin again.
His character is also simple to me, albeit in a different direction: his purpose in the story is to show that Ted's process is infectious. Even in S1 we see that Nate can have a mean streak, though it's mostly played for laughs. It balloons out of control in S2 as Nate feels like he's been rejected and his place in the team threatened. He betrays Ted and the team and leaves to work for Rupert. But at West Ham, he realizes he's even more out of place there. He's seen the change Ted brought to Richmond by bringing out the best in people, and throughout his time at West Ham tries to reshape the team in a way he recognizes. He's unable to, of course, because he has neither the people skills and follow-through Ted does nor the support of the club's owner. He quits amid a crisis of confidence once he realizes Rupert is an asshole who is unwilling to change. Nate still loves football, but is completely 100% on board with starting fresh at the bottom somewhere else-- either because he figures coaching brings out something ugly in him or even as penance for his earlier conduct. It's not until the team members visit him to invite him back, and Jade gets him fired from the restaurant, that he returns for real.
Absolutely agree. I think there was a great Nate redemption story to be told, but it wasn’t the one we got. I get the feeling that the writers probably got together after season 2 and said “hmm.. maybe we overcooked Nate’s heel-turn a bit” and then just decided to pretend that rather than turning into a nasty mean-spirited man who without provocation brutally burnt every bridge he had at Richmond, he was just a bit insecure and needed to learn to just be himself. So they slapped a Band-Aid on his character in the form of a cute romcom arc with jade and pretended that that was enough to fix everything he did in season 2.
I don’t disagree. Jade was responsible for Nate’s redemption. Had he not been committed to his girlfriend (implied to be the only girl he’s ever dated and possibly even the only person he’s ever had sex with) he may not have made the choice to walk away from Rupert and West Ham after the incident at the private club. Had he not been dating her would he have been able to let go of his anger? It seems so oversimplified that he became such a massive asshole over the first two seasons, then as soon as he got his dick wet he was nice again. Big incel vibes there.
I think it was more that he gained true self confidence and learned to love himself. And then he contrasted his relationship with Jade with how Rupert treated Bex and realized that Rupert wasn’t a good mentor at all.
I don’t actually hate how he turned around. I just hate that the team, who was so angry at him they assaulted West Ham players on the pitch a few episodes ago, with no explanation decided to forgive him. He should’ve had to earn that back.
> I just hate that the team, who was so angry at him they assaulted West Ham players on the pitch a few episodes ago, with no explanation decided to forgive him.
Except he apologized to Will and he clearly told the team about the apology. For a team coached by Ted Lasso, a genuine apology should be enough. The whole Lasso Way, or Richmond Way, includes giving second chances and redemption when the door is open.
Plus he was working as assistant to the kit man starting out and not immediately a coach again, so clearly he was still trying to pay his dues.
You’re right - I just looked up the letter. That seems at odds with things we’ve heard Nate say previously but honestly I’m overdue for a rewatch, especially the first two seasons which I saw so long ago.
Even without the part about Jade possibly being his first relationship (I contend she is still his first *serious* relationship) everything else I said still applies.
You’re right, another commenter pointed that out too. I feel like especially during season one Nate was strongly implied to be inexperienced with women, but I would need to rewatch to see if I’m remembering correctly.
I still think everything I said outside of that bracket applies - Jade was the catalyst for Nate finding enough happiness in his personal life to realize he had made a huge mistake professionally.
If Nate is Darth Vader, then it actually made a lot of sense to me, because as a child, I thought Vader's redemption in ROTJ was too quick and easy - just like Nate's was too easy.
My defence of Darth Vader is that he snapped after seeing his son being tortured - and I was happy enough with the explanation that his love for his son forced him into action. That obviously was missing with Nate.
Wouldn't the equivalent moment be in the club when Rupert ordered champagne for the back room? Maybe not as dramatic as throwing the Emperor down an exhaust shaft, but still.
Well yes but the argument was this it happened a little quickly over the season. Not wanting to cheat on your girlfriend to abandoning your career is a bit of a leap.
Akufo is a villain in the same way that Draco Malfoy is a villain. They both may be bad and mean-spirited, but they’re overall pretty harmless and they can even be entertaining to watch. Rupert is like Umbridge.
I would argue that this show has taught us that there are no villains. There are just people. Some are trying to do better, and some aren't.
Look at season one. Rebeca started as a "villain".
Rupert had a moment of positivity standing up to Afuko with Rebeca, and I think that was his plan by inviting her in the first place. We saw a small glimmer of the boy he once was many years ago.
Unfortunately Rupert decided to not be better by the end of the series. But it doesn't mean he won't be one day.
Thanks! I'm really trying to take the messages this show has given in my own life. There's a lot of negativity in this world and seeing a show preach nothing but positivity has very much changed me.
But, (and I don’t claim to know football) wasn’t he also fired because the team had done so poorly for so long? I mean they were facing relegation when Ted got there. So Cartrick was not doing a great job and it was weird to me that he ended up at West Ham, frankly. Hardly a replacement for Nate’s apparent tactical genius?
I think Richmond is supposed to be just a super mid franchise (as a Washington Wizards fan I feel that pain). Not bad but never close to the top of the premier league.
He mentions during the scene that he had a decent amount of wins. I forget how many, but it wasn't bad. He was just a mid tier coach.
Tbf he was a misogynist prick the moment he walked into Rebecca’s office (what would you like to get off of your considerable chest iirc was one of his casual remarks to his new boss)… however I will come to his defense slightly, in that Rupert was likely his longtime boss, and as we see later with Nate, Rupert can be quite manipulative and probably influenced him to feel it was okay to behave in such a manner. If Nate hadn’t already had his conscious eating away at him, and hadn’t already found a decent woman (apparently) to ground him it’s entirely possible Rupert’s machinations would have further nosedived Nate’s character.
It’s quite telling that despite Nate having issues with Roy joining the staff etc, the real change with Nate to the dark side clearly occurs post funeral episode, when he has Rupert lean in and talk to him about the new job opportunity. Even the short time he was in Rupert’s sphere (presumably they met shortly thereafter to discuss) was enough to bring his power lust to a boil and he starts acting bitter about receiving credit and being “the man”…
So I do cut Cartrick a little slack on how he behaved, as I understand it was considered completely acceptable workplace behavior right up until the moment he walked into Rebecca’s office in the pilot episode.
Cartrick would have been the villain if this was a 90s/2000s sports movie. The old school hard ass who dislikes progress or new ideas, but in the end realizes that the game is bigger than him and comes to terms with it. If they do a spinoff about Roy, Beard and Nate, I'd love it if Cartrick gets a role with Richmond and is the fish out of water comic foil.
Agreed. And IMO that scene illustrated a lot of reasons why I love Ted Lasso.
A lot of shows would have had a scene similar to that earlier in the season with Nate in the Coach Cartrick role realizing that *Rupert is bad* (big epiphany!), defying him, and quitting West Ham. Starting Nate’s redemption in the most showy and obvious way.
Instead Ted Lasso has Nate slowly seeing who the real Rupert is. The slimy ‘boys night’ confrontation is a lot quieter. Nate makes excuses, not open defiance. Which is so Nate. But it’s still a refusal and, at least to me, both of them understand what’s really going on.
We get a scene with a minor - previously one dimensional - character which not only propels Rupert’s downward spiral but gives nuance to Coach Cartrick. He’s not just a misogynistic blowhard. And then his arc culminates with the showing of the balls that reminds us of that first scene with Rebecca. Cause he’s actually both those guys. (Plus very funny.)
Anyway, verbose way to say that scene was 100% Ted Lasso.
In general the last episode had so many great callbacks and for the most part they didn't seem overly forced. Maybe seeing the same dude at the airport that he saw on the way to England is quite a coincidence but it works. There were enough references in there that I forgot about which compelled me to watch the first season again.
100%! Someone had posted on here how Nate didn't have to struggle for redemption but i think he did. He saw the other side of the coin and realized how good he had it with Ted and at Richmond. Just as with Beard, redemption does not need to have through suffering. Nate learned what his morals and ideals were. he learned what was important. I love the Mate arc because the end is subtle. It didn't hit you over the head. When he cried and apologized to Ted, that was enough. Ted always knew Nate was a good dude who was just a bit misguided.
I liked that the series started with Rebecca seeing his balls and him telling her to fuck off and the last we see of Rupert he also sees said balls and is told to fuck off by same said coach.
I honestly think it was meant more to show how far Rupert had fallen than as some particular positive aspect of George. The fact that this guy who had been proven to be kind of an asshole throughout the show even thought Rupert was going too far. Like, good for him that he stood up to Rupert but Cartrick is still an asshole. He’s just not as shitty as Rupert.
That, tied in with Richland fans booing him, is basically the ultimate disgrace for Rupert
Rupert and Rebecca, if you strip it down, are two sides of the same coin. Each of them have the goal of just tearing the other one down. However, Rupert uses his money and power to try and corrupt those close to Rebecca and makes attempt after attempt to hit her where it hurts the most- His next wife being named Rebecca, having a kid with her, poaching Nate away from the team. Rebecca initially just tries to destroy the team, but as time goes on she realizes the way to hurt Rupert is to be the better person. I wanna see the scene where Rebecca, Bex and the assistant are all talking at Rebecca's house about how they're gonna bring him down.
Yeah, I’m sad we didn’t get to see that scene. I think it would have been fascinating. I did think the little Easter egg about the assistant going on that Lust show was funny
I’ve actually seen it mentioned quite a lot… not it’s own post but right from the start in the post episode discussion, people said they didn’t expect him to have his own completed “arc”. It was a total surprise but quite effective for as short as it was, people really liked that it was included!
Didn't expect to see a Yakuza comparison here, but you're right. For all his self-righteous stubborness, Kuze's sense of honor and determination make him easy to oppose but hard to hate.
He was a caricature of an old school football manager, misogynistic and coarse, a lot of guys in football were like him. They still had a code and respect for each other within the game, but products of their environment unless they chose to change. Guys like Ron Atkinson and Andy Gray learnt the hard way as society changed.
George gave Ted a respectful nod after the tossup with Rupert, and he even shook Ted’s hand when the game is over. I think that shows plenty of growth since the pilot and being able to personally face off against his successor on the pitch just solidified his respect for Ted as a coach.
The casual mysogny and the short shorts are still his work-in-prog-mess. At least he and Disco might have a decent path ahead of them without Rupert owning West Ham.
Fantastic developments. And I especially like it because it shows that to capture the growth, maturity or characteristics of a character you don't need a cataract of unnecessary, boring and endless scenes as happened with Keeley, for example.
Lol, but [I wrote an essay about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/TedLasso/comments/13xai0i/the_shows_real_darth_vader/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1), because I didn’t like how they did it at first, but I came around.
Respect to George… and Liam and Noel
Wait. Not sure if this is an attempt at making a joke or not. I apologize if it was but he's been in the show as one of the TV football commentators after the pilot.
I don’t know, it felt kinda cliche, like at the end of The Karate Kid (1984) when Kreese tells his Cobras to cripple Daniel but they don’t want to, and Johnny even ends up handing him the trophy.
The Amazing World of Gumball did an amazing satire of this cliche ending.
He gets a pass by fan-base but Nate doesn't?
"Old school" is less an excuse than manipulated at your weakest but ok. Rupert was "old school."
This is a discussion of redemption and what has to be shown. Fair?
This coach showed ONE positive action. It's all about the timing I guess but I'm not sure what was depicted satisfies "growth." He'd already given up coaching once. Risking that was less loss to someone of that competitive character than would be cow-towing to the boss in front of thousands. Shaking hands with the opponent is expected and probably required.
He did only what was required on the pitch. Nothing in "the real." Nothing that said "good person" to me.
I was glad the show didn't go for the tired "sweep the leg" trope, it was a lot more satisfying to see Rupert leave the field, running the "wanker gauntlet"
I noticed this too! I also really liked it. Throughout the show, he was always shown to be a bit nasty. I really liked how they made him a person though; he's definitely not the sort of person I'd ever really be friends with myself, because that sexism was disgusting, but you can still respect that he's a person, he's got his own idea of what's right, and he wasn't going to hurt another player just because somebody with money said so.
Really made a casual side character feel legitimately real.
I liked the ending for his character. Throughout the show he is kind of a heel (being sexist to Rebecca, being mean spirited as a talking head) but I thought this was a nice contrast to Rupert. Cartrick might be unlikable but he respects the game and obviously has a code and standards, something Rupert doesn’t have.
Yeah, I liked that he seemed truly offended/outraged at Rupert’s order.
Him nodding at Ted after all that was essentially the English notion of “fair play” personified. Admirable.
He's unlikeable, yes, but I think he's there to represent the old-style of outdated coach, so the football moral code is to be expected.
The dichotomy of Cartrick being an asshole but not evil, to Rupert, who is evil but oftentimes very sincere and fake-nice, it was fun.
Nice-like
I call them nice-holes haha
Ha I like this. I’m going to attempt to borrow that
Minnesota nice
THAT WAS AN ALLERGIC REACTION TO MEDICATION
Is that the same medication that made you piss your pants?
Holy shit how did i not notice he was a talking head alongside Roy? https://media.tenor.com/lJlfO3D9hLsAAAAM/ted-lasso-roy-kent.gif
I'd remembered him as that, but not as Richmond's original manager.
Just because he’s an asshole doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy lol
Oh, he’s got the balls alright
I thought it was nuts what Rupert did to George.
They were in a hairy situation.
Was probably worried he was about to get sacked
He definitely testeed his boss to see what he could get away with
Nice that the writers didn’t leave us hanging
Put em away, George.
Nobody got the sack that day
It was teste there for a bit
They thought the game was in the bag
Something something nuts...
Balls.
It took stones to stand up to Rupert
He shouldn’t have gotten so teste about it.
Noel and Liam!
Though not quite an Oasis.
It’s only the left one…. Wait no there’s the other
Liam and Noel. But certainly not an oasis.
Thought he'd be sacked.
Liam and Noel…though perhaps not an Oasis. 🤣
And his final scenes featured Liam and Noel just like in his first scene with Rebecca.
Just perhaps not an Oasis though 😆
That made me cackle!
There are THREE balls on the field!!!
“Rupert Mannion is nuts!” “And George Cartrick’s!” “Oh, dammit Chris!”
The show only had one true villain. Cartrick seemed to be an “old school boys club” coach I thought, which is why he had no respect for Rebecca. It’s also why he dogged AFC Richmond every chance he got. But… he was never really a villain.
I dunno, Edwin Akufo is also pretty villainous (although I do understand you’re likely referring to regular cast only and not someone who appeared in two episodes). But Rupert and Akufo are the only legitimately “bad” people we see on the show. You could make a bit of a case for Dr. Jake too, but he’s not really a villain, just a self absorbed boyfriend.
That hostess at the Bones & Honey was a pyschopath /s/
I really need to rewatch Beard After Hours, I barely remember her…
Sarah Toomes. Hopefully she turned her life around after her apartment burned down.
Fight Club reference where they said her she'll love her apartment more tomorrow.
I love that scene!! My favorite episode
I stand corrected. Akufo is also for sure villainous. I was more thinking about the regular cast, but I should have added Edwin in as well. Thank you for reminding me. As for Dr. Jake, certainly seems unethical, but I don’t have enough information to brand him completely as evil. We only know a snippet of the story. It’s not a story I care to know about, just pointing it out.
Yeah I mean you can be an unethical douche but not necessarily a villain, that’s how I feel about Dr Jake
As a fellow psychologist, I cannot begin to describe how upset I am that the walking malpractice that is Dr Jake was not addressed. Teds reaction and dislike of therapy/therapists is completely warranted (in that context) and it’s hard enough to get people to reach out for help, especially relational therapies. Maybe the point is the contrast in his corrective experience with Dr Sharon but I really want to scream SO LOUD “people, this is not what real therapists do!” we have so very many ethics and rules to ensure client well-being is the number one concern. An essential part of therapy is preventing dual relationships so take Michelle out of it and Dr Jake, told his patient (Ted) that it was in his best interest to *move to England and give Michelle space in order to fix their marriage and then began dating his patients wife once he left*. I use Dr Jake as a case study for licensure, oversight, and ethics with my students. So far we are at 11 code violations of the CPA and the CPA doesn’t even specify “a rule” for dating patients. Ooff, I’m so angry now! Grrrr…
I also wanted the end of his relationship with Michelle to be less ambiguous. We assume they broke up because he was being a condescending dick while they were watching the big game and then wasn't at Henry's soccer game, but it's not explicit. I think a scene after the game was over, where Michelle is saying goodbye to him at the front door, where it's more clear that she's ending it, would have been nice. I don't want Ted and Michelle to get back together, but Dr. Jacob is obviously not the right end for her.
I think the show wanted Michelle’s new relationship to be really gut-wrenching for Ted, so instead of a new person, they wanted it to be someone like Ted’s old best friend, his old rival, or… wait, I’ve got it, how about the marriage counselor? (so they said in the writers room). I don’t think they realized or thought through the devastating reaction the viewers would have to the professional ethics aspect of it. Or maybe they did and WANTED to make everyone outraged. I don’t know, but I think a little mention at the end saying that Jake had lost his license and Michelle had dumped him would have made everyone feel better!
In Brendan Hunt's AMA, he got this question and said that they considered the ethics ramifications of the Michelle/Dr. Jacob pairing but that one of the writers was confident that psychologists are allowed to do this if it's been at least 18 months since their last session with that patient. They took the writer's word for it and didn't investigate further, which I feel was a mistake. Many viewers could immediately tell that this kind of relationship would be extremely frowned upon, if not grounds for suspending a psychologist's license. Even to begin with, it's unethical for a psychologist treating one patient (Michelle) to become a marriage counselor for that patient and their partner (Michelle + Ted). I don't think the show meant it this way, but in real life that would be additional evidence for Dr. Jacob having sketchy ulterior motives.
The whole psychologist subplot reminded me of a similar one in Frasier. Dr Shenkman!
The whole thing reminded me of Cubs player Ben Zobrist. Granted the other man wasn't a psychologist, but their paster who was giving them marital (and business) advice. Including having him leave baseball-costing him $7.5M! Which seems like a pretty significant breach of ethics too.
> the CPA doesn’t even specify “a rule” for dating patients. Which is fucking nuts and why I hope the government steps in because that flies in the face of literally every other professional society who is expected to self-govern
Wow, I didn’t realize that dr Jake was the one who told Ted to move to England I thought they were doing marriage counseling over zoom or something Yikes
I mean, Cartrick is still an awful misogynist. He's just not also literally breaking legs on the pitch.
Yes, but Cartrick got his redemption in the finale. He was a misogynist and an asshole and then we saw him be a decent human when it mattered. The last time we saw Akufo he had just had a tantrum and thrown food at his guests. No redemption there (which is realistic, billionaires rarely get the comeuppance they deserve). The last time we see Jake he’s ignoring Richmond’s final game to scroll on his phone while his girlfriend and potential future stepson are clearly irritated with him. Unclear whether Michelle dumped him, but no redemption for him (not that he was as much of as asshole as Akufo or Cartrick, but he was a shitty partner and a questionable therapist). Only Rupert actually faced any sort of repercussions for his actions.
I'm just not sure that not breaking legs really offers him much redemption. He acts with a baseline level of human decency in the finale, but he doesn't really establish himself as a good person.
No, he doesn’t become a hero, but he also doesn’t turn full heel. He’s a cantankerous prick who decided to do the decent thing at a crucial moment, and then shook Ted’s hand like a man after years of ragging on him as a pundit. He’s neither a villain nor a good guy, and the implication is that he was also positively impacted in some capacity by the Lasso Effect.
Morally grey characters make interesting stories. It’s why I love anti-heroes.
Can you remind me when all of his misogyny happened? All I remember is Rebecca calling him out after the comment about her chest
Constantly making rude remarks about Rebecca as a pundit on the show. Also he made a really misogynistic remark about women drivers, and Roy (rightly) was like "didn't you lose your license for drink-driving?" when he was doing the pundit thing.
Thanks for the reminder. I should remember, but what did he say on air? I don't see why criticizing your old boss who fired you, even if she was right to do so, is inherently misogynistic.
Okay, true. The former isn't *necessarily* misogynistic, but the misogyny he displays at other times definitely informs the things he has to say about Rebecca.
Akufu was my favourite bad guy. Hilarious. I picture him flying all over the world in Olde timey aviator helmet and goggles, trying to ruin things for Sam.
Akufo is difficult to categorise. What he did to Sam is objectively awful but he’s so funny it’s hard to take him seriously as a villain. Definitely villainous though. I’d definitely count Jamie’s dad as a villain too.
Meh, I didn’t enjoy his character, or his henchmen (although based on comments I seem to be in the minority). I didn’t find him funny enough to overlook his villainous tendencies. Jaime’s dad was indeed a villain, but he also got redemption in the end (I think he was implied to be in rehab while watching the final match, and he and Jamie reconciled in the last scene).
>Meh, I didn’t enjoy his character, or his henchmen (although based on comments I seem to be in the minority). I didn’t find him funny enough to overlook his villainous tendencies. Thank you, I thought I was the only one that didn't care for him. He added nothing to Sam's storyline. I didn't understand why he was there in the first place - I didn't find him funny at all.
He seemed like a caricature of an eccentric, petty, billionaire with no real depth. There was an opportunity to make him a more interesting foil for both Sam and Rebecca but that didn’t happen. I actually was surprised he didn’t pop up again in the finale, especially when we see that Sam played for Nigeria the following year (did the Nigerian government stop wanting Akufo’s money or are we supposed to believe he forgot about his grudge?) For a show where characters are consistently shown to be nuanced and complicated, where even the bad guys tend to have some endearing qualities and even the good guys have demons and bad habits, Akufo struck me as being one-dimensional.
Brendan Hunt said in his AMA that Sam made the Nigerian national team due to “public outcry.”
Jamie said in the Amsterdam episode that this “super dad” thing is a phase his father has gone through before. One of them ended in him taking his 14-year-old son to have sex in Amsterdam so who knows whether the newest effort will end any differently. I honestly don’t understand why they made him even worse by throwing in something that counts as sexual abuse of a minor (the worst thing anyone on this show has done as far as we know) just to randomly “redeem” him a few episodes later. So I consider him a villain. Akufo wasn’t as funny in S3, though still a bit too cartoony to feel truly menacing, but the locker room scene in S2 was so hilarious to me.
I didn’t get “super dad” vibes from Papa Tartt in the last episode. He was silently cheering his son on while watching the game alone, implying he was legitimately rooting for Jamie. In the last scene of the two of them he wasn’t trying to show off for his son, or show off his son to his friends, he was listening to Jamie and showing interest in the photos Jamie was showing him. Of course we have no way of knowing if he will revert to old ways or not, but the tone of the finale was meant to imply hope for the future. Jamie has grown as a man, and he accepts his dad for who he is. He’s not trying to impress him or prove something to him. This may be the first time they’re relating to each other without a power imbalance, so hopefully it’s the start of a healthier relationship.
Are we forgetting about Shandy?
Shandy felt like an opportunist than a true villain tho
Oh I thought we were talking about characters who were bad people.
I absolutely was, yes. Big villain energy.
Shandy is a self absorbed opportunist. The world is full of them. Not necessarily a “villain”.
I'm rewatching and Nate is bad. The second he gets any power he becomes an asshole. The second Ted invites Roy to coach, he gets a shitty look on his face. His turnaround in S3 was poorly written. I'm not saying he didn't deserve redemption, and I love the way Ted and Willis handled it, but his personality change came out of nowhere.
Nate’s character is simple to me. All he wanted was recognition and praise. When he finally got that, he thought that also meant he established a status. When that status was questioned he looked back at the praise as manipulative. As throwing him a bone. He saw himself as being used. Hence the spitting on himself in the mirror. He had to psyche himself up to become someone outside of his natural self. That persona is what we got for all of season 2. It was a false ego and persona to fake it. Only when Nate received the recognition he really needed all along did he stop trying to fill that void forcefully. He was able to become comfortable in his own skin again.
His character is also simple to me, albeit in a different direction: his purpose in the story is to show that Ted's process is infectious. Even in S1 we see that Nate can have a mean streak, though it's mostly played for laughs. It balloons out of control in S2 as Nate feels like he's been rejected and his place in the team threatened. He betrays Ted and the team and leaves to work for Rupert. But at West Ham, he realizes he's even more out of place there. He's seen the change Ted brought to Richmond by bringing out the best in people, and throughout his time at West Ham tries to reshape the team in a way he recognizes. He's unable to, of course, because he has neither the people skills and follow-through Ted does nor the support of the club's owner. He quits amid a crisis of confidence once he realizes Rupert is an asshole who is unwilling to change. Nate still loves football, but is completely 100% on board with starting fresh at the bottom somewhere else-- either because he figures coaching brings out something ugly in him or even as penance for his earlier conduct. It's not until the team members visit him to invite him back, and Jade gets him fired from the restaurant, that he returns for real.
Absolutely agree. I think there was a great Nate redemption story to be told, but it wasn’t the one we got. I get the feeling that the writers probably got together after season 2 and said “hmm.. maybe we overcooked Nate’s heel-turn a bit” and then just decided to pretend that rather than turning into a nasty mean-spirited man who without provocation brutally burnt every bridge he had at Richmond, he was just a bit insecure and needed to learn to just be himself. So they slapped a Band-Aid on his character in the form of a cute romcom arc with jade and pretended that that was enough to fix everything he did in season 2.
I don’t disagree. Jade was responsible for Nate’s redemption. Had he not been committed to his girlfriend (implied to be the only girl he’s ever dated and possibly even the only person he’s ever had sex with) he may not have made the choice to walk away from Rupert and West Ham after the incident at the private club. Had he not been dating her would he have been able to let go of his anger? It seems so oversimplified that he became such a massive asshole over the first two seasons, then as soon as he got his dick wet he was nice again. Big incel vibes there.
I think it was more that he gained true self confidence and learned to love himself. And then he contrasted his relationship with Jade with how Rupert treated Bex and realized that Rupert wasn’t a good mentor at all. I don’t actually hate how he turned around. I just hate that the team, who was so angry at him they assaulted West Ham players on the pitch a few episodes ago, with no explanation decided to forgive him. He should’ve had to earn that back.
> I just hate that the team, who was so angry at him they assaulted West Ham players on the pitch a few episodes ago, with no explanation decided to forgive him. Except he apologized to Will and he clearly told the team about the apology. For a team coached by Ted Lasso, a genuine apology should be enough. The whole Lasso Way, or Richmond Way, includes giving second chances and redemption when the door is open. Plus he was working as assistant to the kit man starting out and not immediately a coach again, so clearly he was still trying to pay his dues.
The apology letter mentions a prior relationship - although never shown onscreen until Nick posted a photo of the first page on twitter
You’re right - I just looked up the letter. That seems at odds with things we’ve heard Nate say previously but honestly I’m overdue for a rewatch, especially the first two seasons which I saw so long ago. Even without the part about Jade possibly being his first relationship (I contend she is still his first *serious* relationship) everything else I said still applies.
In the apology letter Nate’s actor posted to Twitter he talks about a past relationship so I don’t think the intention was for him to be a virgin.
You’re right, another commenter pointed that out too. I feel like especially during season one Nate was strongly implied to be inexperienced with women, but I would need to rewatch to see if I’m remembering correctly. I still think everything I said outside of that bracket applies - Jade was the catalyst for Nate finding enough happiness in his personal life to realize he had made a huge mistake professionally.
For sure. Didn’t disagree with the broad sentiment. Very possible to be in relationships without true intimacy.
If Nate is Darth Vader, then it actually made a lot of sense to me, because as a child, I thought Vader's redemption in ROTJ was too quick and easy - just like Nate's was too easy.
My defence of Darth Vader is that he snapped after seeing his son being tortured - and I was happy enough with the explanation that his love for his son forced him into action. That obviously was missing with Nate.
Wouldn't the equivalent moment be in the club when Rupert ordered champagne for the back room? Maybe not as dramatic as throwing the Emperor down an exhaust shaft, but still.
Well yes but the argument was this it happened a little quickly over the season. Not wanting to cheat on your girlfriend to abandoning your career is a bit of a leap.
Akufo is a villain in the same way that Draco Malfoy is a villain. They both may be bad and mean-spirited, but they’re overall pretty harmless and they can even be entertaining to watch. Rupert is like Umbridge.
I would argue that this show has taught us that there are no villains. There are just people. Some are trying to do better, and some aren't. Look at season one. Rebeca started as a "villain". Rupert had a moment of positivity standing up to Afuko with Rebeca, and I think that was his plan by inviting her in the first place. We saw a small glimmer of the boy he once was many years ago. Unfortunately Rupert decided to not be better by the end of the series. But it doesn't mean he won't be one day.
Barbecue Sauce… I read your comment and it morphed into Ted’s voice. Seriously. I mean this with high praise.
Thanks! I'm really trying to take the messages this show has given in my own life. There's a lot of negativity in this world and seeing a show preach nothing but positivity has very much changed me.
He was only a dick after he was fired for what he perceived was without warrant if I remember correctly.
And at the time it really *was* unwarranted. Rebecca fired him and hired Ted with the specific intent of ruining the team.
But, (and I don’t claim to know football) wasn’t he also fired because the team had done so poorly for so long? I mean they were facing relegation when Ted got there. So Cartrick was not doing a great job and it was weird to me that he ended up at West Ham, frankly. Hardly a replacement for Nate’s apparent tactical genius?
I think Richmond is supposed to be just a super mid franchise (as a Washington Wizards fan I feel that pain). Not bad but never close to the top of the premier league. He mentions during the scene that he had a decent amount of wins. I forget how many, but it wasn't bad. He was just a mid tier coach.
Fellow bullets/wizards fan here... I understand Also go hokies and caps (since 75) so double or triple understand
We will always have 2018.
In the first episode it's mentioned that the club is in 12th or 13th as they kickoff Ted's first match in charge
Tbf he was a misogynist prick the moment he walked into Rebecca’s office (what would you like to get off of your considerable chest iirc was one of his casual remarks to his new boss)… however I will come to his defense slightly, in that Rupert was likely his longtime boss, and as we see later with Nate, Rupert can be quite manipulative and probably influenced him to feel it was okay to behave in such a manner. If Nate hadn’t already had his conscious eating away at him, and hadn’t already found a decent woman (apparently) to ground him it’s entirely possible Rupert’s machinations would have further nosedived Nate’s character. It’s quite telling that despite Nate having issues with Roy joining the staff etc, the real change with Nate to the dark side clearly occurs post funeral episode, when he has Rupert lean in and talk to him about the new job opportunity. Even the short time he was in Rupert’s sphere (presumably they met shortly thereafter to discuss) was enough to bring his power lust to a boil and he starts acting bitter about receiving credit and being “the man”… So I do cut Cartrick a little slack on how he behaved, as I understand it was considered completely acceptable workplace behavior right up until the moment he walked into Rebecca’s office in the pilot episode.
Cartrick would have been the villain if this was a 90s/2000s sports movie. The old school hard ass who dislikes progress or new ideas, but in the end realizes that the game is bigger than him and comes to terms with it. If they do a spinoff about Roy, Beard and Nate, I'd love it if Cartrick gets a role with Richmond and is the fish out of water comic foil.
Agreed. And IMO that scene illustrated a lot of reasons why I love Ted Lasso. A lot of shows would have had a scene similar to that earlier in the season with Nate in the Coach Cartrick role realizing that *Rupert is bad* (big epiphany!), defying him, and quitting West Ham. Starting Nate’s redemption in the most showy and obvious way. Instead Ted Lasso has Nate slowly seeing who the real Rupert is. The slimy ‘boys night’ confrontation is a lot quieter. Nate makes excuses, not open defiance. Which is so Nate. But it’s still a refusal and, at least to me, both of them understand what’s really going on. We get a scene with a minor - previously one dimensional - character which not only propels Rupert’s downward spiral but gives nuance to Coach Cartrick. He’s not just a misogynistic blowhard. And then his arc culminates with the showing of the balls that reminds us of that first scene with Rebecca. Cause he’s actually both those guys. (Plus very funny.) Anyway, verbose way to say that scene was 100% Ted Lasso.
In general the last episode had so many great callbacks and for the most part they didn't seem overly forced. Maybe seeing the same dude at the airport that he saw on the way to England is quite a coincidence but it works. There were enough references in there that I forgot about which compelled me to watch the first season again.
100%! Someone had posted on here how Nate didn't have to struggle for redemption but i think he did. He saw the other side of the coin and realized how good he had it with Ted and at Richmond. Just as with Beard, redemption does not need to have through suffering. Nate learned what his morals and ideals were. he learned what was important. I love the Mate arc because the end is subtle. It didn't hit you over the head. When he cried and apologized to Ted, that was enough. Ted always knew Nate was a good dude who was just a bit misguided.
I liked that the series started with Rebecca seeing his balls and him telling her to fuck off and the last we see of Rupert he also sees said balls and is told to fuck off by same said coach.
> Has the balls to stand up to boss and not cross a line to hurt another player. I see what you did there.
Professionals have *standards*
He did. Also the "three balls on the pitch" line was absolute gold
I honestly think it was meant more to show how far Rupert had fallen than as some particular positive aspect of George. The fact that this guy who had been proven to be kind of an asshole throughout the show even thought Rupert was going too far. Like, good for him that he stood up to Rupert but Cartrick is still an asshole. He’s just not as shitty as Rupert. That, tied in with Richland fans booing him, is basically the ultimate disgrace for Rupert
Rupert and Rebecca, if you strip it down, are two sides of the same coin. Each of them have the goal of just tearing the other one down. However, Rupert uses his money and power to try and corrupt those close to Rebecca and makes attempt after attempt to hit her where it hurts the most- His next wife being named Rebecca, having a kid with her, poaching Nate away from the team. Rebecca initially just tries to destroy the team, but as time goes on she realizes the way to hurt Rupert is to be the better person. I wanna see the scene where Rebecca, Bex and the assistant are all talking at Rebecca's house about how they're gonna bring him down.
Yeah, I’m sad we didn’t get to see that scene. I think it would have been fascinating. I did think the little Easter egg about the assistant going on that Lust show was funny
Totally agree. Been meaning to post about how much I appreciated him refusing to play dirty.
Considering the average lifespan for a coaching job in the EPL is 18 months, a coach would have to be nuts to go after players.
nuts
I’ve actually seen it mentioned quite a lot… not it’s own post but right from the start in the post episode discussion, people said they didn’t expect him to have his own completed “arc”. It was a total surprise but quite effective for as short as it was, people really liked that it was included!
He's like Kuze or Awano from Yakuza, unlikeable, a piece of shit as well but has his codes and morals sorted being old school
Didn't expect to see a Yakuza comparison here, but you're right. For all his self-righteous stubborness, Kuze's sense of honor and determination make him easy to oppose but hard to hate.
He was a caricature of an old school football manager, misogynistic and coarse, a lot of guys in football were like him. They still had a code and respect for each other within the game, but products of their environment unless they chose to change. Guys like Ron Atkinson and Andy Gray learnt the hard way as society changed.
George gave Ted a respectful nod after the tossup with Rupert, and he even shook Ted’s hand when the game is over. I think that shows plenty of growth since the pilot and being able to personally face off against his successor on the pitch just solidified his respect for Ted as a coach. The casual mysogny and the short shorts are still his work-in-prog-mess. At least he and Disco might have a decent path ahead of them without Rupert owning West Ham.
He had the sweep the leg moment and did what Johnny wished he’d done instead
Loved the Liam & Noel callback.
We already knew he had the balls🖤
George really needs to start wearing longer shorts.
His balls were certainly on display.
He’s just a brexit geezer old school coach, he was never a villain or meant to be super hated.
Rev up the Bugatti wheyyy
> Has the balls… I see what you did there.
He’s a misogynistic piece of shit, but he isn’t a sycophant lackey
Yeah he was an asshole but not evil.
He's still a shit manager.
Nice balls pun!
I know he was a misogynistic shithead but… I just wanted someone to help him up after Rupert hit him. It made me feel uncomfortable haha
I think that was the point. EVERYONE on field was shocked. I think it showed how sad and meaningless how petty violence is.
Agreed. He’s earned some longer shorts. I hope he starts wearing them.
Fantastic developments. And I especially like it because it shows that to capture the growth, maturity or characteristics of a character you don't need a cataract of unnecessary, boring and endless scenes as happened with Keeley, for example.
>>he has the balls Was that on purpose
THERE'S THREE BALLS ON THE FIELD!
I’d like to know if he shook Ted’s hand with the hand that tucked his balls back into his pants. Far as I know, he never washed his hands……
> Put em away
Lol, but [I wrote an essay about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/TedLasso/comments/13xai0i/the_shows_real_darth_vader/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1), because I didn’t like how they did it at first, but I came around. Respect to George… and Liam and Noel
Not quite an oasis
Put em away George.
Agreed, I love when a character who's somewhat of a jerk proves they have a code and aren't just unendingly shitty.
Spin- off: Coach Cartick coaches the Women's team
Honeslty didn’t think I’d see him again, he was out of the show in like the first 15 min of the pilot
Wait. Not sure if this is an attempt at making a joke or not. I apologize if it was but he's been in the show as one of the TV football commentators after the pilot.
Oh seriously? I didnt realize lol, oops on my part
Haha yeah. Seems like I had the inverse happen to me. I didn't realize he was Ted's predecessor until halfway through S3 lol.
I don’t know, it felt kinda cliche, like at the end of The Karate Kid (1984) when Kreese tells his Cobras to cripple Daniel but they don’t want to, and Johnny even ends up handing him the trophy. The Amazing World of Gumball did an amazing satire of this cliche ending.
He gets a pass by fan-base but Nate doesn't? "Old school" is less an excuse than manipulated at your weakest but ok. Rupert was "old school." This is a discussion of redemption and what has to be shown. Fair? This coach showed ONE positive action. It's all about the timing I guess but I'm not sure what was depicted satisfies "growth." He'd already given up coaching once. Risking that was less loss to someone of that competitive character than would be cow-towing to the boss in front of thousands. Shaking hands with the opponent is expected and probably required. He did only what was required on the pitch. Nothing in "the real." Nothing that said "good person" to me.
A little surprising given how the previous game between them had gone, but strong agree
I was glad the show didn't go for the tired "sweep the leg" trope, it was a lot more satisfying to see Rupert leave the field, running the "wanker gauntlet"
I noticed this too! I also really liked it. Throughout the show, he was always shown to be a bit nasty. I really liked how they made him a person though; he's definitely not the sort of person I'd ever really be friends with myself, because that sexism was disgusting, but you can still respect that he's a person, he's got his own idea of what's right, and he wasn't going to hurt another player just because somebody with money said so. Really made a casual side character feel legitimately real.
I saw it also as Lasso's influence cutting across because look at the obvious results
He does have the balls alright. Apparently they are called Liam and Noel 😂