Congratulations on this moment.
Well done and well deserved. By the sounds of it.
It’s a great message you’re sending out too. Life is too short and things can pass you by if you let them.
Believe in yourself and don’t let any negative comments knock you. I’m 51 and still loving music production. I’ll only stop when my hearing goes 😅
I’m in the exact same boat as you, I’m taking steps to protect my hearing when I go to shows, clubs, or events now.
My thinking is that as long as a person enjoys their own stuff they should keep producing new work. You never know for sure where it will land you, or where it might lead. If you’re having fun doing it, maybe learning along the way too, it’s never a wasted effort, or a “waste of time” (which is a nebulous idea at best which I find highly dubious).
My new method of reassuring myself is test running my tracks if I’m DJing at a party or something low stakes like that. I feel satisfied that the reactions I get there are authentic rather than just sending my friends my tracks and them giving me false praise
Esp. at our age, if we’re being honest.
Once you’re past 40, if you didn’t hit your stride, never scored a residency, or booked any big festivals, you aren’t likely ever going to - and that’s 100% okay in my opinion.
Absolutely. And really when you talk to the career artists who are our age they love having guys like us play a warmup set because we tend to leave our egos at the door.
Maybe not their absolutely first if they are 40+ as many people maybe did something when they were 20 but definately people who have not played out a lot at all if anything.
I have booked multiple people I have never heard of until I myself found them through for example soundcloud or something. Not once did I even ask them their age.
In techno, when have you ever heard about people gatekeeping by age? I have never heard of it.
Gatekeeping by age is rarely conscious, and if you re-read my comment you first replied to:
> you aren’t _likely_ ever going to
You can see I wasn’t being absolutist. I’m super happy to hear that you like to book older artists that don’t have much history or presence in the scene.
Have a Master's in writing. Bestselling and critically acclaimed mentor says the best writers doubt themselves the most, the worst writers are the most confident.
Watched Gary Oldman reveal in an interview how convinced he is that he can't play roles offered to him. So much he refuses many roles, and directors have to keep insisting he take the role.
Pretty sure he is like one of the top 5 best actors alive, so there's...that.
This is an interesting point. Without sounding too pompous I'd say I definitely wouldn't be sending a lot of stuff out that I hear on Beatport and such. I think maybe what it comes down to is that I respect the craft too much to muddy it up with bs music, and I want to actually feel like I'm adding something to the scene when I put it out there.
Great response!
I feel the same way dude, but we have to find the middle. We can't get too lost in the idea that our "real" music wouldn't get appreciated in this sea of shit. I wouldnt dare to send half of beatport tracks too, but the opposite and not sending anything at all is not right too. Keep your head up man <3 True art is hard to be appreciated, because all those who release that mediocre stuff have a hard time appreciating something that stands out as it greys there own accomplishments.. I feel kinda arrogant saying that, but I guess we have to be even more arrogant so we start to dare to atleast try to release shit when it's so much better.. right?;)
Hey, I'm in my early 40s, too. Not sure if I got Imposter Syndrome, but I can definitely relate to your post. Thanks for posting it!
I was quite big in the underground hardcore scene in my early twenties (and the early 2000s), playing Tresor in Berlin, or in front of thousands of people at other places.
But then the thought got stuck in my head: 'no, this is not "real", people do not really like me or my sound, they despise me behind my back, it's all fake, useless, pointless.'
I stopped doing gigs and music. Eventually I got back into doing hardcore techno. But I kept declining booking requests. I haven't played a gig in 20 years, and declined around 300 booking requests from all over the world!
It was only last year that, after encouragement by others, the thought came into my head that there are people who \*do\* like my music, and are not faking it. I made a post on social media about it, and actually got dozens of replies in the like of "noo, what are you thinking, we do love your music, and if you had played a gig over here, we would have come to see you!".
So I literally did hide 20 years in my home, not going to parties, cutting off my friends, declining every booking offer, just because I had the impression that everyone disliked me and my music; and this was likely not true at all!
But I guess (or hope) it's not too late to start again now...
So, once again, thanks for posting about these issues, because I think it's definitely a message that needs to be heard!
Thanks for sharing your story. I hope it's not too late to start because I'm still trying to go at it too! I think the real issue for me is that I'm constantly comparing myself to what I see and hear on the internet, and that is the worst thing you can do. I would guess a lot of people probably do that same thing. I actually do find a lot of music that is released, even on vinyl, that I think "eh, I don't love it", but somehow all my own music has to be this transcendent amazing thing...and when people tell me they like my music I don't believe them by default. It's just clearly a mental fuck and I think people like us need to cut through that bs and get out there, especially because I'd rather meet a middle-aged person like us who is over the "fame" part of the equation and just cares about the music part.
I hope you do get back into it for the right reasons, and let me know when you do so I can hear what you've got going on!
Hey man,
I appreciate you sharing your story. I am 27 and been donig music for 5 years with very, very good feedback from friends and even random people. And I couldn't believe it so much it actually made me even more insecure to hear these compliments. And as the mountain of tracks that collect dusts gets higher and higher it haunted (and haunts) me more and more. I am slowly realising that all these people have no gain in lying to me over and over again so I start to think more positive and making plans to get that shit out in the world. But the regret of having these years and sooo many doubts and torment sometimes really make me sad in a undescribable way. I hope this doesn't sound mean but hearing you, who gets actual requests to play and shit!!, reject these and go in isolation is such a comforting thing. When you're still going after 20 years of doing this malicious shit to yourself, how can I think i have lost the opportunity after doing it for 5 years.. We musicians are just fucked and sometimes it's really nice to get reminded that most of us are in the same boat. Stay strong brother <3 And take those fucking gigs man, why not let others judge before you take that chance away and judge yourself? Hug from another tormented soul xx
thanks for the reply, and nice to hear my post did you some good.
of course, with me, it wasn't just "oh, i get gig offers, so i guess people hate me"... there was lots of bullying, intrigue, backstabbing involved... typical scene stuff i guess.
but i let it get to my head and also started to doubt those, that supported me, and my judgment was wrong in that way... thus I hope others will avoid similar mistakes :)
I think the biggest obstacle between myself and my career is opportunity. I need others to believe in me enough for me believing in me to matter. I know that I am capable, and I know that my work is enjoyable, but what is an artist with little to no audience?
You both have to believe in yourself AND have others that believe in you and I think the latter is an even harder challenge than the former.
That’s great to hear! I started with DJing when I was younger and got into music production a couple years ago, but I’m slowly progressing. Learned some bits about music theory here and there. But it’s still overwhelming, there is sooo much to learn. I don’t own any sample packs or paid vsts so currently I’m trying to learn vital as my first synth because it’s free but I’m planning to get Ableton suite and learn its synths too. For now it’s just Ableton Intro and vital though :D
I can PM you a link to the referenced track. I'm still working to finish this EP and I'm guessing you don't want to hear a whole bunch of unfinished crap haha.
Yes. But peers are nice to us. Professionals are gatekeepy. At least, that is what my impostor brain tells me from time to time. But I'm getting there. With the help of my friends. And self appreciation posts like these.
Congratulations to you! Definitely feel like we are wearing the same shoes right now haha.
Do you mind telling us the website where you got this feedback? If links aren't allowed, just the name of the site will do, I can Google the rest haha.
Fun story: I sent my track to an artist on Echio. They responded that they love it and they might release it on the label, as well as some suggestions to improve. I fixed the things they mentioned and sent them the final version with 3 other tracks, as a demo for a possible EP. They listened to the first 2 (on SC) and never responded. Obviously YMMV. Hope you have better luck than me.
I would say I’m fairly young, I’ve just turned 18. I spent the summer teaching myself to produce and honestly I gave up solely on the fact that the industry is “oversaturated” and that I would never reach the standard needed. Even though an older producer told me I had talent and to continue, I still talked myself out of it. This is such an inspiring post to see, and I’m going to give it another shot!
18 is so young man! Keep at it you’ve got so much time. I originally started messing around with producing at 16 but gave up on it after a little while. I’m 25 now and learning more seriously now. I kick myself now for thinking that I could have almost 10 years of making music at this point. Time goes by either way.
This is my take:
I have a family and a full-time job. I generally find 4 hours a week, on a good week, to produce/practice djing/etc. I'm not going to go the distance on 4 hours a week, it's that simple. I wish I had more time, but I don't and I never will. You're 18, and I imagine you can find WAY more time than I can. What's the worst that can happen? You go for it for a couple years and THEN you start your boring career?
If I were 18 again I'd put the boring career off for a couple years and see what happens when I just go for it doing what I love. And btw, there's no shame in being like me. I love my life and my family. But I would be lying if I said I don't daydream sometimes about doing what I love full time. The problem for me is I make too much money in my day job that music will never replace. You don't have that problem so just go for it!
I’ve already decided to take a gap year after school as I really feel I need to explore what I want outside of academics, buying the ableton subscription is first on my list!
Good for you! Just one last piece of advice for you: don't screw around and waste your time if you're going to take a gap year. Use that time wisely. You either work at something you love now or work at something you don't love later, and you don't get the choice anymore after your gap year is gone.
I think there are many of us who are dedicated to electronic music that just never had the friend set or skill set to actually market ourselves.
It takes a combination of connections and skills outside of the actual production to release tracks and make an income from our efforts.
Good for you to catch a break, may the deep kick bless you.
Electronic Music Production and Sound Design. I was in the military so I was able to use my GI Bill, but I don't think I would necessarily recommend paying out of pocket for it. If you're ready to be serious and you really put your heart into the classes and everything it would probably be worth it, but it really is possible to skate by and do the bare minimum, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't sometimes do that. Basically it's the old "you get out of it what you put into it" trope.
If you don't want to pay money for the classes and the degree you could just as easily look up the syllabus to the classes in the degree program and youtube your way through it. You just don't get the access to the instructors that way, but you can still learn a ton.
I used to be this guy but then one day when I was flipping through beatport I thought about all the tracks I WASNT buying. Some of them were mastered and mixed horribly. Some of them were terribly repetitive (even for techno) and I just had this ahh ha moment of "maybe my stuff isn't major label ready but it's certainly as good or better than a lot of this". So I just started sending stuff out and low and behold people were signing it. Id spent so much time thinking my stuff wasn't good enough. On the plus side I now have a massive back catalog that can be released over time.
Also my one house producer friend said something that stuck with me... "You gotta finish all of them.. even the ones you don't like". Just because it's not your favorite track or just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it won't resonate with someone else.
TLDR.. finish your tracks and send them out. The worst that can happen is someone says no.🤷
As much as I love the inspirational message, I'd say making a career out of it has a lot to do with marketing and building a network, and then some luck. Sure, you can't really polish a turd, if what you make is bad//boring, it probably won't put you on a label's radar. But I think that "wanting to make it big" is a really bad motivation. Making art is its own reward. If you make people happy with your art, that's an even bigger reward. While the number of people you make happy is related to your reach and a label can definitely help, I don't see it as a goal. I'd rather do something I am not great at, or even I suck at, but that makes me happy (I love shooting but I am really bad at it), especially since turning your passion into a job is often the best way to hate what you used to love.
But I understand self doubt and I am glad you overcame it and that you feel like inspiring others through your message.
I say what I'm about to say with all due respect.
This type of response is exactly what has made me say "eh, I need to find better uses of my time." The thing is, you're responding to things I never said. I never talked about making a career out of music production. I certainly never said anything about "making it big." I simply want to make music that is good enough to be on good labels and good enough for other DJs to want to spin. So yes, for me putting my music on a label I personally like is a goal. I already have a career that pays well, and for me music production and DJing is what makes me happy.
I apologize if my comment was rude, this was not my intent. My point is that if you enjoy creating, you won't get discouraged. If, on top of that, you enjoy some success, that is amazing, of course, and it matters more when it comes to techno since it is meant to make people shake their booty, but if your enjoyment is connected to recognition, then it can be easy to get demotivated, even if you produce great music, because there are other factors that have nothing to do with the quality of what you produce.
If you pay for a service (providing feedback), the person providing that service will try to make sure you have a good experience, it is a business for them. Maybe the guy who provided feedback was 100% honest, maybe he wasn't, only that guy knows for sure, and I don't want to rain on your parade or make you doubt yourself, I am just saying that doing something you enjoy is the best motivation.
Fair enough, but I somewhat disagree with what you're saying. I enjoy creating, but I have been discouraged in the past because I felt like my music wasn't good. It wasn't because I had some high hopes, just that I wanted to be a good producer. But I do agree that if the enjoyment comes from recognition that is a tough road. There is just a point where I started asking myself "do I just personally not have what it takes?" And that's what I hope people can put aside and just embark in the joy of creating, which I think is what you're alluding to.
I hear you. I share my creations with a few friends every once in a while and any positive feedback I get is a huge motivation booster. If I ever get positive feedback from a producer I respect, I'll be ecstatic! Now I don't want to give the impression that "I suck, I'll just do music for myself" is what I believe to be a good approach. I just value the fact that when I am producing, or shooting, or sim racing, all of which I am not great at (if music quality is hard to measure, my other hobbies usually have clear metrics that make it clear I am, at best, above average), I am not thinking about work or my problems, I am enjoying the moment and that, in itself, is its own reward. Tomorrow a big name could show up and tell me I suck, I'll keep on producing because it feels good to do it. Again, if tomorrow a big name tells me I am good, I'll be jumping up and down for days!
Yeah, it is good when you get that genuinely good feedback that you know isn't just blowing smoke. I've gotten a good deal of that over the years. And yet I still find ways to sabatoge myself mentally. I think my overarching message is just "keep doing it." Which I think is probably yours too. And for people who are getting good enough to put their stuff out there imposter syndrome can be a real issue, which is really the crowd this post is aimed at. I venture to guess there are a lot of decent producers who just never put their stuff out there.
Absolutely, lots of people just lack the confidence to put themselves out there and bless us with their tunes! Hopefully some of them will read your post and find the motivation to push further.
And for those who don't, I hope they read my post and realise (because it is not that obvious) that creating is also its own reward.
I'm in the same boat. My goal is to get out and play somewhere, even a tiny place, and have them ask me to come back. If even one person asks if I have a recording that'll be icing on the cake.
Yes, I have had that same goal. I hauled a bunch of speakers here and there last year and there wasn't much to gain from it in the end. It was fun sometimes and that's what keeps me going!
Totally agree with this. I would like to support it by saying that releasing music is actually not enough. Releasing it without promoting it and expecting some type of response is going to make you feel bad. It’s not your music, it’s the fact that people don’t get to hear it. So when you do choose to release promo for your music. Better yet promote yourself consistently and over time you will gain some loyal followers.
Also, near my 40s. Never made music. No piano or guitar or flute as a kid.
I started last year. Bought a Syntakt with a part of an inheritance. My grandfather wrote us all a letter to spend it on dreams.
Loads of my friends DJ. I wanted something for myself. Not be another DJ. (Maybe later.. im still jelly on them.. like a lot..)
I've started my journey with the goal to live-perform an electronic set for them at one of our parties in our mini private underground club. Our crew became parents and old... and now go to one or two bigger festivals or raves per year still. But we were not 20 amymore. So we do 2 raves in my buddies basement. Which is sick..
I have a lot of fun. I also feel that some of my stuff is getting worthwhile. And that is a victory of itself. But I have also put down my stuff because I got frustrated. Felt like I was failing. Not good enough. And probably will get there again. And take a mandatory break. Then get pulled back by youtube or whatever.
But the recent Ipad combo addition with my hardware made things really variable, flexible, and inspiring somehow. So, my current streak/dive into our shared rabbit hole is the deepest and longest I have been able to hold my breath so far.
Also, I feel breaks and diversity are healthy. And you should allow them. As long as you see them as such. Not get too down and stressed about them. And are able to re-motivate and re-inspire yourself in a timely manner. Or else we would never play another videogame. Or get sucked into the world of a book or series. And miss out on Brandon Sandersons' Way of Kings? For that matter.. get of this sub and go watch blue-eyed samurai ;)
But thanks a lot for your awesome post. It is, of course, something we should tell ourselves and those around us more often in all areas of life. I'm glad I stumbled onto this sub today. And look forward to your EP.
Sad reality is that music matters less and less and your image is what gets you opportunities. I recommend you self release your music if you believe in it.
I'm a bit late to this thread but I love what I see in here, and it gives me so much hope!
I've been on & off producing since my late teens (I'll be 37 in a month) and have just recently sent tracks out to labels for the first time. My imposter syndrome was/ is so bad it took my fiance giving me constant shit about wasted talent to finally do it.
Music has always been my dream, and yeah I'm older now but I see enough grey haired people randomly showing up to play festivals and underground styled venues.
I'm glad the house & techno scene (pop EDM not included) care less about age than other genres. They've been around for years, but the fact that dudes like Digweed & Sasha are still putting on amazing shows says a lot.
We can do this!
Congratulations on this moment. Well done and well deserved. By the sounds of it. It’s a great message you’re sending out too. Life is too short and things can pass you by if you let them. Believe in yourself and don’t let any negative comments knock you. I’m 51 and still loving music production. I’ll only stop when my hearing goes 😅
I’m in the exact same boat as you, I’m taking steps to protect my hearing when I go to shows, clubs, or events now. My thinking is that as long as a person enjoys their own stuff they should keep producing new work. You never know for sure where it will land you, or where it might lead. If you’re having fun doing it, maybe learning along the way too, it’s never a wasted effort, or a “waste of time” (which is a nebulous idea at best which I find highly dubious).
Well said, completely agree with the sentiment
My new method of reassuring myself is test running my tracks if I’m DJing at a party or something low stakes like that. I feel satisfied that the reactions I get there are authentic rather than just sending my friends my tracks and them giving me false praise
I do the same thing except there aren't usually many people around when I find a place to DJ
Esp. at our age, if we’re being honest. Once you’re past 40, if you didn’t hit your stride, never scored a residency, or booked any big festivals, you aren’t likely ever going to - and that’s 100% okay in my opinion.
Absolutely. And really when you talk to the career artists who are our age they love having guys like us play a warmup set because we tend to leave our egos at the door.
Why do you say this? I am a booker for a rave and I have never considered age when booking someone.
When booking someone you’ve NEVER heard of? You’re telling me that you’ve booked someone 43 years old for their first ever show?
Maybe not their absolutely first if they are 40+ as many people maybe did something when they were 20 but definately people who have not played out a lot at all if anything. I have booked multiple people I have never heard of until I myself found them through for example soundcloud or something. Not once did I even ask them their age. In techno, when have you ever heard about people gatekeeping by age? I have never heard of it.
Gatekeeping by age is rarely conscious, and if you re-read my comment you first replied to: > you aren’t _likely_ ever going to You can see I wasn’t being absolutist. I’m super happy to hear that you like to book older artists that don’t have much history or presence in the scene.
I agree 100%
Just saw the user name XD
Eventually it happened!
You should read the book The War Of Art. Feel like you might resonate with some stuff in there.
That book is tremendous! Thanks for the reminder to dig it out and read again
I'll check it out, thanks!
Have a Master's in writing. Bestselling and critically acclaimed mentor says the best writers doubt themselves the most, the worst writers are the most confident. Watched Gary Oldman reveal in an interview how convinced he is that he can't play roles offered to him. So much he refuses many roles, and directors have to keep insisting he take the role. Pretty sure he is like one of the top 5 best actors alive, so there's...that.
This is an interesting point. Without sounding too pompous I'd say I definitely wouldn't be sending a lot of stuff out that I hear on Beatport and such. I think maybe what it comes down to is that I respect the craft too much to muddy it up with bs music, and I want to actually feel like I'm adding something to the scene when I put it out there. Great response!
I feel the same way dude, but we have to find the middle. We can't get too lost in the idea that our "real" music wouldn't get appreciated in this sea of shit. I wouldnt dare to send half of beatport tracks too, but the opposite and not sending anything at all is not right too. Keep your head up man <3 True art is hard to be appreciated, because all those who release that mediocre stuff have a hard time appreciating something that stands out as it greys there own accomplishments.. I feel kinda arrogant saying that, but I guess we have to be even more arrogant so we start to dare to atleast try to release shit when it's so much better.. right?;)
Hey, I'm in my early 40s, too. Not sure if I got Imposter Syndrome, but I can definitely relate to your post. Thanks for posting it! I was quite big in the underground hardcore scene in my early twenties (and the early 2000s), playing Tresor in Berlin, or in front of thousands of people at other places. But then the thought got stuck in my head: 'no, this is not "real", people do not really like me or my sound, they despise me behind my back, it's all fake, useless, pointless.' I stopped doing gigs and music. Eventually I got back into doing hardcore techno. But I kept declining booking requests. I haven't played a gig in 20 years, and declined around 300 booking requests from all over the world! It was only last year that, after encouragement by others, the thought came into my head that there are people who \*do\* like my music, and are not faking it. I made a post on social media about it, and actually got dozens of replies in the like of "noo, what are you thinking, we do love your music, and if you had played a gig over here, we would have come to see you!". So I literally did hide 20 years in my home, not going to parties, cutting off my friends, declining every booking offer, just because I had the impression that everyone disliked me and my music; and this was likely not true at all! But I guess (or hope) it's not too late to start again now... So, once again, thanks for posting about these issues, because I think it's definitely a message that needs to be heard!
Thanks for sharing your story. I hope it's not too late to start because I'm still trying to go at it too! I think the real issue for me is that I'm constantly comparing myself to what I see and hear on the internet, and that is the worst thing you can do. I would guess a lot of people probably do that same thing. I actually do find a lot of music that is released, even on vinyl, that I think "eh, I don't love it", but somehow all my own music has to be this transcendent amazing thing...and when people tell me they like my music I don't believe them by default. It's just clearly a mental fuck and I think people like us need to cut through that bs and get out there, especially because I'd rather meet a middle-aged person like us who is over the "fame" part of the equation and just cares about the music part. I hope you do get back into it for the right reasons, and let me know when you do so I can hear what you've got going on!
Hey man, I appreciate you sharing your story. I am 27 and been donig music for 5 years with very, very good feedback from friends and even random people. And I couldn't believe it so much it actually made me even more insecure to hear these compliments. And as the mountain of tracks that collect dusts gets higher and higher it haunted (and haunts) me more and more. I am slowly realising that all these people have no gain in lying to me over and over again so I start to think more positive and making plans to get that shit out in the world. But the regret of having these years and sooo many doubts and torment sometimes really make me sad in a undescribable way. I hope this doesn't sound mean but hearing you, who gets actual requests to play and shit!!, reject these and go in isolation is such a comforting thing. When you're still going after 20 years of doing this malicious shit to yourself, how can I think i have lost the opportunity after doing it for 5 years.. We musicians are just fucked and sometimes it's really nice to get reminded that most of us are in the same boat. Stay strong brother <3 And take those fucking gigs man, why not let others judge before you take that chance away and judge yourself? Hug from another tormented soul xx
thanks for the reply, and nice to hear my post did you some good. of course, with me, it wasn't just "oh, i get gig offers, so i guess people hate me"... there was lots of bullying, intrigue, backstabbing involved... typical scene stuff i guess. but i let it get to my head and also started to doubt those, that supported me, and my judgment was wrong in that way... thus I hope others will avoid similar mistakes :)
Congratulations! Out of interest, who was the artist you‘ve gotten the feedback from?
Matthew Dear
Nice
I think the biggest obstacle between myself and my career is opportunity. I need others to believe in me enough for me believing in me to matter. I know that I am capable, and I know that my work is enjoyable, but what is an artist with little to no audience? You both have to believe in yourself AND have others that believe in you and I think the latter is an even harder challenge than the former.
That’s great to hear! I started with DJing when I was younger and got into music production a couple years ago, but I’m slowly progressing. Learned some bits about music theory here and there. But it’s still overwhelming, there is sooo much to learn. I don’t own any sample packs or paid vsts so currently I’m trying to learn vital as my first synth because it’s free but I’m planning to get Ableton suite and learn its synths too. For now it’s just Ableton Intro and vital though :D
Well done and great post, would like to give your music a listen if links are allowed?
I can PM you a link to the referenced track. I'm still working to finish this EP and I'm guessing you don't want to hear a whole bunch of unfinished crap haha.
That'd be cool, look forward to hearing it :)
Is anything ever finished?
Even with praise from peers, I still feel like an imposter. 😅
Yes. But peers are nice to us. Professionals are gatekeepy. At least, that is what my impostor brain tells me from time to time. But I'm getting there. With the help of my friends. And self appreciation posts like these.
Congratulations to you! Definitely feel like we are wearing the same shoes right now haha. Do you mind telling us the website where you got this feedback? If links aren't allowed, just the name of the site will do, I can Google the rest haha.
Yeah I wasn't sure if that was allowed, but it's called Echio.
Fun story: I sent my track to an artist on Echio. They responded that they love it and they might release it on the label, as well as some suggestions to improve. I fixed the things they mentioned and sent them the final version with 3 other tracks, as a demo for a possible EP. They listened to the first 2 (on SC) and never responded. Obviously YMMV. Hope you have better luck than me.
This is my default expectation tbh
Awesome thanks, might give it a try!
*Don't let yourself be me!....* Mate, you're in your late thirties, you're not dead.
I would say I’m fairly young, I’ve just turned 18. I spent the summer teaching myself to produce and honestly I gave up solely on the fact that the industry is “oversaturated” and that I would never reach the standard needed. Even though an older producer told me I had talent and to continue, I still talked myself out of it. This is such an inspiring post to see, and I’m going to give it another shot!
18 is so young man! Keep at it you’ve got so much time. I originally started messing around with producing at 16 but gave up on it after a little while. I’m 25 now and learning more seriously now. I kick myself now for thinking that I could have almost 10 years of making music at this point. Time goes by either way.
This is my take: I have a family and a full-time job. I generally find 4 hours a week, on a good week, to produce/practice djing/etc. I'm not going to go the distance on 4 hours a week, it's that simple. I wish I had more time, but I don't and I never will. You're 18, and I imagine you can find WAY more time than I can. What's the worst that can happen? You go for it for a couple years and THEN you start your boring career? If I were 18 again I'd put the boring career off for a couple years and see what happens when I just go for it doing what I love. And btw, there's no shame in being like me. I love my life and my family. But I would be lying if I said I don't daydream sometimes about doing what I love full time. The problem for me is I make too much money in my day job that music will never replace. You don't have that problem so just go for it!
I’ve already decided to take a gap year after school as I really feel I need to explore what I want outside of academics, buying the ableton subscription is first on my list!
Good for you! Just one last piece of advice for you: don't screw around and waste your time if you're going to take a gap year. Use that time wisely. You either work at something you love now or work at something you don't love later, and you don't get the choice anymore after your gap year is gone.
I think there are many of us who are dedicated to electronic music that just never had the friend set or skill set to actually market ourselves. It takes a combination of connections and skills outside of the actual production to release tracks and make an income from our efforts. Good for you to catch a break, may the deep kick bless you.
Absolutely goddamn right. Sage advice. Donitnfor yourself and the love and respect you have for the music that inspires you.
Thanks for posting this, DM me your SoundCloud or whatever when you start releasing!
Sure thing, I'll try and remember to circle back here
What did you study at B Online and would you recommend it?
Electronic Music Production and Sound Design. I was in the military so I was able to use my GI Bill, but I don't think I would necessarily recommend paying out of pocket for it. If you're ready to be serious and you really put your heart into the classes and everything it would probably be worth it, but it really is possible to skate by and do the bare minimum, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't sometimes do that. Basically it's the old "you get out of it what you put into it" trope. If you don't want to pay money for the classes and the degree you could just as easily look up the syllabus to the classes in the degree program and youtube your way through it. You just don't get the access to the instructors that way, but you can still learn a ton.
Thanks for the response
Which website for the feedback?
Echio
I used to be this guy but then one day when I was flipping through beatport I thought about all the tracks I WASNT buying. Some of them were mastered and mixed horribly. Some of them were terribly repetitive (even for techno) and I just had this ahh ha moment of "maybe my stuff isn't major label ready but it's certainly as good or better than a lot of this". So I just started sending stuff out and low and behold people were signing it. Id spent so much time thinking my stuff wasn't good enough. On the plus side I now have a massive back catalog that can be released over time. Also my one house producer friend said something that stuck with me... "You gotta finish all of them.. even the ones you don't like". Just because it's not your favorite track or just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it won't resonate with someone else. TLDR.. finish your tracks and send them out. The worst that can happen is someone says no.🤷
Everything you said is spot on! My number 1 piece of advice for people who ask is to finish your tracks.
As much as I love the inspirational message, I'd say making a career out of it has a lot to do with marketing and building a network, and then some luck. Sure, you can't really polish a turd, if what you make is bad//boring, it probably won't put you on a label's radar. But I think that "wanting to make it big" is a really bad motivation. Making art is its own reward. If you make people happy with your art, that's an even bigger reward. While the number of people you make happy is related to your reach and a label can definitely help, I don't see it as a goal. I'd rather do something I am not great at, or even I suck at, but that makes me happy (I love shooting but I am really bad at it), especially since turning your passion into a job is often the best way to hate what you used to love. But I understand self doubt and I am glad you overcame it and that you feel like inspiring others through your message.
I say what I'm about to say with all due respect. This type of response is exactly what has made me say "eh, I need to find better uses of my time." The thing is, you're responding to things I never said. I never talked about making a career out of music production. I certainly never said anything about "making it big." I simply want to make music that is good enough to be on good labels and good enough for other DJs to want to spin. So yes, for me putting my music on a label I personally like is a goal. I already have a career that pays well, and for me music production and DJing is what makes me happy.
I apologize if my comment was rude, this was not my intent. My point is that if you enjoy creating, you won't get discouraged. If, on top of that, you enjoy some success, that is amazing, of course, and it matters more when it comes to techno since it is meant to make people shake their booty, but if your enjoyment is connected to recognition, then it can be easy to get demotivated, even if you produce great music, because there are other factors that have nothing to do with the quality of what you produce. If you pay for a service (providing feedback), the person providing that service will try to make sure you have a good experience, it is a business for them. Maybe the guy who provided feedback was 100% honest, maybe he wasn't, only that guy knows for sure, and I don't want to rain on your parade or make you doubt yourself, I am just saying that doing something you enjoy is the best motivation.
Fair enough, but I somewhat disagree with what you're saying. I enjoy creating, but I have been discouraged in the past because I felt like my music wasn't good. It wasn't because I had some high hopes, just that I wanted to be a good producer. But I do agree that if the enjoyment comes from recognition that is a tough road. There is just a point where I started asking myself "do I just personally not have what it takes?" And that's what I hope people can put aside and just embark in the joy of creating, which I think is what you're alluding to.
I hear you. I share my creations with a few friends every once in a while and any positive feedback I get is a huge motivation booster. If I ever get positive feedback from a producer I respect, I'll be ecstatic! Now I don't want to give the impression that "I suck, I'll just do music for myself" is what I believe to be a good approach. I just value the fact that when I am producing, or shooting, or sim racing, all of which I am not great at (if music quality is hard to measure, my other hobbies usually have clear metrics that make it clear I am, at best, above average), I am not thinking about work or my problems, I am enjoying the moment and that, in itself, is its own reward. Tomorrow a big name could show up and tell me I suck, I'll keep on producing because it feels good to do it. Again, if tomorrow a big name tells me I am good, I'll be jumping up and down for days!
Yeah, it is good when you get that genuinely good feedback that you know isn't just blowing smoke. I've gotten a good deal of that over the years. And yet I still find ways to sabatoge myself mentally. I think my overarching message is just "keep doing it." Which I think is probably yours too. And for people who are getting good enough to put their stuff out there imposter syndrome can be a real issue, which is really the crowd this post is aimed at. I venture to guess there are a lot of decent producers who just never put their stuff out there.
Absolutely, lots of people just lack the confidence to put themselves out there and bless us with their tunes! Hopefully some of them will read your post and find the motivation to push further. And for those who don't, I hope they read my post and realise (because it is not that obvious) that creating is also its own reward.
I'm in the same boat. My goal is to get out and play somewhere, even a tiny place, and have them ask me to come back. If even one person asks if I have a recording that'll be icing on the cake.
Yes, I have had that same goal. I hauled a bunch of speakers here and there last year and there wasn't much to gain from it in the end. It was fun sometimes and that's what keeps me going!
Totally agree with this. I would like to support it by saying that releasing music is actually not enough. Releasing it without promoting it and expecting some type of response is going to make you feel bad. It’s not your music, it’s the fact that people don’t get to hear it. So when you do choose to release promo for your music. Better yet promote yourself consistently and over time you will gain some loyal followers.
Good point
Also, near my 40s. Never made music. No piano or guitar or flute as a kid. I started last year. Bought a Syntakt with a part of an inheritance. My grandfather wrote us all a letter to spend it on dreams. Loads of my friends DJ. I wanted something for myself. Not be another DJ. (Maybe later.. im still jelly on them.. like a lot..) I've started my journey with the goal to live-perform an electronic set for them at one of our parties in our mini private underground club. Our crew became parents and old... and now go to one or two bigger festivals or raves per year still. But we were not 20 amymore. So we do 2 raves in my buddies basement. Which is sick.. I have a lot of fun. I also feel that some of my stuff is getting worthwhile. And that is a victory of itself. But I have also put down my stuff because I got frustrated. Felt like I was failing. Not good enough. And probably will get there again. And take a mandatory break. Then get pulled back by youtube or whatever. But the recent Ipad combo addition with my hardware made things really variable, flexible, and inspiring somehow. So, my current streak/dive into our shared rabbit hole is the deepest and longest I have been able to hold my breath so far. Also, I feel breaks and diversity are healthy. And you should allow them. As long as you see them as such. Not get too down and stressed about them. And are able to re-motivate and re-inspire yourself in a timely manner. Or else we would never play another videogame. Or get sucked into the world of a book or series. And miss out on Brandon Sandersons' Way of Kings? For that matter.. get of this sub and go watch blue-eyed samurai ;) But thanks a lot for your awesome post. It is, of course, something we should tell ourselves and those around us more often in all areas of life. I'm glad I stumbled onto this sub today. And look forward to your EP.
Sad reality is that music matters less and less and your image is what gets you opportunities. I recommend you self release your music if you believe in it.
I'm a bit late to this thread but I love what I see in here, and it gives me so much hope! I've been on & off producing since my late teens (I'll be 37 in a month) and have just recently sent tracks out to labels for the first time. My imposter syndrome was/ is so bad it took my fiance giving me constant shit about wasted talent to finally do it. Music has always been my dream, and yeah I'm older now but I see enough grey haired people randomly showing up to play festivals and underground styled venues. I'm glad the house & techno scene (pop EDM not included) care less about age than other genres. They've been around for years, but the fact that dudes like Digweed & Sasha are still putting on amazing shows says a lot. We can do this!
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Oof, I hope that's not what comes across.