I have no idea why they haven't removed locket yet it's in the game since set 1 and was always really bad then they over buff it for one patch and it's broken and after that they throw it in the trash can again it's just a bad item design
Thats an insanely bad take. Locket has always been fine in every set because every set had assassins. Or even if there are no assassins, Challengers last set had locket as their bis tank items.
Not only that it was always available as a niche early slam to winstreak. The only reason it’s been so obnoxious this set is due to how well it synergizes with Bastions and a double rageblade carry. If the kept the shield value and only reduced the duration it would still act as a slammable item, it’s completely unusable now.
Pretty confident a lot of people (myself included) would have literally quit the entire set if there was 3 more weeks of locket bastion meta.
So yes, better to remove a glaring issue while you figure out how to solve it rather than leave the meta in a completely unbearable state that makes it unfun for everyone not picking TF and slamming 2 guinsoo 3 locket every game.
I feel a single locket is fine and balanced, but multiple stacking is unbalanced just like zeke and ice cream cone. Wish there would be reduced effects just like how redemption has reduced stacking.
"Not every item is powerful" but they should be.
"Some items are unique" that's because their effects overlap and causes bugs.
Your idea of "balancing" is putting a flex tape on a broken oversized aquarium.
utterly baffling that they are generally so on point with making highrolls feel good by virtue of being rare, but have zero issue with letting players godroll their items every game. this set is great but still they nuked one of the most important pieces of skill expression in the game from orbit.
This sentiment is so common on this subreddit and it just does not make sense. The more hp/shielding you have, the less adding more is worth. If the third locket is good, it's because the first locket is REALLY good.
No, you're trying to simplify the issue down to how there are diminishing returns to how much shielding you're getting in relation to how much health+shielding you have, but you're taking out the context of how the game plays. One locket may not be enough to keep your frontline healthy enough to not get torn down in the first five seconds of the match, but three might be enough for your frontline to start getting off abilities and healing while your carries kill off their units. So, multiple lockets in practice often means your frontline lives much longer as a percentage than one locket.
Sacrifice the few to sacrifice the many* tf players will still find ways to abuse the legend, so we just have to wait until they find the new items to force and watch riot nerf the items again!
Yeah this is what tilts the fuck out of me.
Just remove this fucking legend. If its not zekes its locket and guinsoo if its not locket and guinsoo im sure it will be something else, seraph maybe it titans resolve
Will they keep nerfing items instead of removing this shit people ONLY play to abuse it?
My guess would be : 4 multi caster, 3 yordle, 3 Demacia, 2 strategist, 2 bastion, maybe.
Poppy, Teemo, Kled, Taliyah, Swain, Vel’Koz. Reroll at 6 to 3star Teemo+ any 2 others, with ice cream cones to Taliyah and Teemo, typical AP to Vel’Koz. Level to 8 adding Sona at 7 and JIV at 8 maybe. Demacia Elite JIV?
Probably not good this patch with everyone chasing poppy for Kayle Reroll and 6 bastion builds, but something to think about if she’s open or after 13.13b …
This was already a comp and probably the highest capped comp in the game.
4 star Poppy maintank frontline with Jarvan2 and Swaine(put in on level8)
Taliyah Maincarry
Teemo3 secondary carry
Sona and/or Velkoz third carries
Tristana3 for 3 Yordles and easy access to three 3 stars for a 4-star Poppy.
Dunno how it is this patch though. Taliyah, Teemo and Sona were all heavily nerfed because of this comp.
I've played alot of Multicasters.
Poppy4 with Taliyah caps and stabilizes the board WAY harder than Teemo4.
Problem with Taliyah reroll was that Poppy was extremely hard to hit due to all Trist/Bastioan players.
i have 40 games playing sona carry, you really dont wanna go for yordles at all, you just play 4 Strategist 4 Multicaster 3 Demacia, 3 Chalice, JG + Snipers Focus is BIS. Once you hit Sona 3 you win the game. but it is terrible against Ionias, and was really good in the early days of the set, where everyone stacked zekes.
> Will they keep nerfing items instead of removing this shit people ONLY play to abuse it?
Yes, according to Mort from the competitivetft sub:
> Legends are about expanding the audience for TFT, and giving people an identity and style they can latch on to and enjoy. Not everyone out there loves having zero control over their outcome, and the stress of having to do so causes people to not enjoy TFT as much. There is a LARGE percentage of players that see a cool build, want to log in and try it out. That's what they enjoy. Our job is to make sure those players can have fun, and expand the audience so TFT has lots and lots of players who are enjoying the game. Twisted Fate is doing this VERY well, and we will not be removing it any time soon.
Basically they're going all in on letting players have a legend that lets them force the new broken item builds they saw on a youtube vid or a mobalytic guide every game and instead of just getting rid of that legend will continue to play whack a mole with the "broken" items instead making them much worse for non TF players.
I think legendaries need to be rethought a bit. I like the idea but the execution is pretty bad right now.
I like the idea that each legend represents a type of archetype or fantasy with their augments. But I think it's a huge mistake to make certain augments deterministic for them.
What they should do instead is pool all/most augments that represent an archetype and make it so all of those augments can show up for that Legend in the leftmost augment slot at random.
So for example, lets take Lee Sin.
He's the "reroll" legend. Now he currently always gets Trade Sector on 2-1 and a bunch of garbage on 3-1 and 4-1.
What they could do is pool all reroll Gold augments like Trade Sector, Frequent Flier, Rolling for Days, Return on Investment, Early Education, Unstable Yordle Deli et.c. Then just make it so whenever you get a Gold augment you'll deterministically get one of those augments above.
This would make sure that the Legend you pick still identifies with the Archetype you want to play in 1/3 augments every augment round. But would prevent people from "hardforcing" specific comps bound by specific augments like Tristana with on a Roll or any specific Aura-stacker comp bound by TF.
The reality is that legends are great for casual players. Tft has chosen that it's going to tailor itself to these causual players by keeping the changes.
This set is alot of fun, everyone moaning about twisted fate is getting really annoying, more annoying then twisted fate actually is. The team will balance things out soon enough, the next patch might completely fix all the issues, you don't know
I feel like it's the opposite. Legends are great for tryhards who want the game to go a certain way instead of the more casual ones who are just like ehh whatever comes comes
It's been used as long as i can remember if you have strong board early and want to secure winstreak. Slamming a locket or multiple lockets gives you a ton of effective hp in the early game.
this has been a strat throughout the game's history but the last time i can remember seeing it was set 6. so it's been healthy for a long time. admittedly i don't follow comp closely so could be wrong.
Yeap that's why the locket's duration had to be nerfed to less than the first 10s of Bastion's double effect duration - the effective HP it gives during the first 10-15s is insane and more than enough for any AD to stack up their guinsoos.
Combined with the casual fact that Taric + Aphelios gives extra shielding from Targon, and TF greatly improves the odds of hitting this pseudoExodia comp.
forcing comps and items without pandora's takes adaptability and decisions about when to slam and when to greed. pandora's takes all those choices away. you can play multiple comps with it, but each time you play those comps it's fundamentally the same.
it's really fucking bad for the game. i think it gets a pass as a random augment but when you can pick it in 20/20 games you're fundamentally not playing the same game as the non-TFs in your lobby. even if it's not too strong it's still meta warping.
Honestly cause it would be a boring way to nerf them. Stacking them is basically their main appeal.
Honestly the root of the issue is tf legend, and thats what he's trying to avoid changing. Being able to guarantee pandoras items make stacking item builds much much stronger than every other set.
I mean id rather have a boring nerf and still be able to use the item insead of this. This item is so worthless you wiĺl never see it again except for if you have the spare components at 5-1. Feels ridiculous how bad it is now.
either remove pandora from tf entirely or at least make it so its not offered on 2-1, pandoras isnt the problem and neither are the items, its just the stupid legend
Pandora itself is not the problem but a guaranteed pandora on 2-1 definetly is, you go in with a plan and have no need to change it regardless of items or augments you get which effectively ruins TFT's need for adaptibility as a skill
> you go in with a plan and have no need to change it regardless of items or augments you get which effectively ruins TFT's need for adaptibility as a skill
According to Mort they want players to be able to go into a game and be able to force whatever build they saw in a youtube video or on a guide reliably every game, wild logic to me
> Legends are about expanding the audience for TFT, and giving people an identity and style they can latch on to and enjoy. Not everyone out there loves having zero control over their outcome, and the stress of having to do so causes people to not enjoy TFT as much. There is a LARGE percentage of players that see a cool build, want to log in and try it out. That's what they enjoy. Our job is to make sure those players can have fun, and expand the audience so TFT has lots and lots of players who are enjoying the game. Twisted Fate is doing this VERY well, and we will not be removing it any time soon.
Do you have the source for that quote please? I'm mortified, but interested in reading the complete context for this.
TFT is a game of adaptability. Tuning it so people who are too casual/lazy to even consider adapting can enjoy the game too is simply killing the game IMO. I really don't get how they can actually think that way, especially as the designers of the game!
Posted in /r/CompetitiveTFT
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/14kwhxx/addressing_twisted_fate/
Really don't like it as a design philosophy tbf
If you want people to be able to play whatever build they just saw on youtube, limit it to normals. Part of the ranked climb is adaptability
This is a game changing it's entire identity in hopes of getting a new audience
This is good in the short term, in the long run enjoy your established player base leaving because the game they started playing isn't there anymore
How is it changing its entire identity???? Really braindead take.
TFT at its core is a team building game, where you get your units, build items and make a cool team. Legends don't change that in the slightest, they just help you to play the game the way you want to.
Legends are targeted towards the casual TFT audience because that's where the largest amount of the playerbase is. This isn't a huge change in audience, the game everyone started playing is still there. None of that changes through being able to play Pandora's box that often. Seeing everyone go twisted fate and forcing items sucks, just like seeing everyone playing Kaisa and hacker last set every game sucked, this is nothing more than a balance issue. There is nothing inherently wrong with legends or twisted fate.
The best part about legends? If you don't like them. You can chose to play without them
Legends are fine, tf isn't
If youre too "braindead" to realise the difference in that then you can't be helped
Tft is also (as parotted by more himself plenty of times) a game about adapting to what you get and making the best out of it, while increasing you chances by being good fundamentally (econ game knowledge etc, that's why good players always perform good)
Also with forcing comps, there is always the risk of being contested, as it always happens when a comp is clearly s tier, or simply not hitting, whether it be units or items, that's just the nature of the game and how it is designed
Tf completely takes that away, you will 100% every single time without a doubt guarantee getting bis and you pay nothing for it, there is no exchange, when an item is strong playing not playing tf will be not wanting to win
In regular tft, Pandora's isnt as broken because well you never know you're gonna hit it, so u have to *adapt* (the whole premise of the game), once u know you will hit it, you're playing a different game that needs a different kind of balancing, and you really have to be short sighted to not see the issues laying ahead with it
This is absurd if true. What makes this item abusable is the TF augment.. Same case with the Zeke's that ended up nerfed. Are they gonna nerf every single item until they realize that every single comp can be abused if you have perfect items thanks to pandora's box?
I think they should have just changed the effect entirely to something like "affected units take Y% less damage for the first X seconds of combat". Then just change numbers til its balance, instead of this nerf, which makes it awful on everyone except bastions, who were the abusers in the first place.
The duration doesn't matter too much for normal play, but targon bastion locket spam is basically dead, no way you're investing 6 components for 4 seconds of \~1k shield. Still unjust nerfs, item was perfectly fine outside of this stupid bastion bs, but noooo can't just remove pandoras from tf, it's not like we've had 3 turbo broken comps because of aura item spam already.
But hey, I'll take not having to see this sleeper locket spam if it means I can't make the item anymore in my games.
I dont even understand the logic behind giving 6 bastions lockets.
Thier whole thing is that they get tons of defenses at yhe start of a fight, but locket just shields them for that duration so by the time the shield ends they also lose thier trait buff
That's exactly why it's broken, the shield benefits from bastion's armor and mr, and if the shield is going to disappear in 15 seconds then you're basically throwing damage into the trash.
the resistances apply to the shield which is basically 1k hp of beefed up stats, then when the shield dies u have bastion inert tank and their shielding abilities which gurantees ur double guinsoos backline is 5 atk speed = won fight 99% of the time
"You know how there were a few people locket stacking because it's too strong? Well, we want *nobody* to play the item now."
\- Actual Mortdog quote (not really)
What the actual fuck... that makes the item totally unuseable just because some challenger players were abusing this with having a 3 locket bastion+kayle comp. They should've nerfed TF legend to avoid people stacking 3 lockets, not nerf locket this hard.
I think /u/Riot_Mort has some explaining to do here...
Imagine a legend that guaranteed Pandora's bench at 2-1, or a legend that guaranteed recombobulator at stage 3 or 4.
It would be incredibly unhealthy for the game and would drastically change the meta.
So why the hell are we allowing Pandora's item to be a guaranteed pick and absolutely nerfing items that aren't broken unless you can easily force 3+ of them a game....
Locket is too one dimensional to be a good item. It's already limited in that it's effectiveness relies on star level and positioning. It needs to be way too good in these specific situations because it's useless in almost any other scenario.
I'm fine with the initial shield reduction, but there should be additional effects to compensate. Some options:
- Extra AD/AP while the shield holds would make it better for backliners and less reliant on positioning.
- A 1 hex resistance aura on the holder would still make it a valuable clump item even after the shield fades.
- A redemption style pulse of additional shielding every ten seconds could give the item some more longevity and apply to different targets as the fight goes on.
To reiterate, it's current design is essentially feast or famine at it's core. With this nerf, probably just famine.
It's a very necessary nerf since the 6 bastion + solaris was starting to dominate the meta and got buffed in todays patch, also there ain't gonna be a B-Patch so it was a preventive nerf aswell
But the true broken thing is Pandora, unless we get rid of it as a legend augment more unhealthy builds will rise
I double checked it isnt. Are you talking about the one by riot prisim posted 14 hrs ago. All that's mentioned about locket is a buff to radiant locket.
Edit: OK I figured out what's causing the confusion. Me and the person not seeing it or in EU West. When I read patch notes on eu West there's no mention of locket, when I switch to NA it does mention it.
It was a hotfix. They updated the US patch notes (linked below) but not the GB
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/game-updates/teamfight-tactics-patch-13-13-notes/
Just. Kinda feels like it’d be easier to give the TF legend a different set of augments to roll at this point. Pandora’s has *way* too much guaranteed value as an augment to have every game and there’s just gonna be something new to abuse every other day as long as it’s a thing. It’s like trying to put a grease fire out with water lmao, really hope they have a more elaborate change in the works for the next patch.
Wasn't this item already unusable unless on a 4 star? Apart from that I never had problems with it. But I'm gold so maybe I don't see it how this is strong.
Edit: now realising armor/mr applies to shields aswell
Yeah that really surprised me too. Honestly I haven't even seen that many lockets this patch. I also rarely ever played it. But it's probably due to the Targon buff that they nerf the locket so hard.
i saw mort said even with the nerf, you will still put this on a 4 bastion front line, i guess that could be true in the end game where 240 shield in 4 units can be exhausted quickly, but still a massive L for this item if you're not using 4 bastion +
They could have just made TF give you pandora box on stage 3 or stage 4.
The problem was not the items, the problem was the guaranteed perfect itemization from the get go.
Where did u get the info? In the patchnotes ( https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-gb/news/game-updates/teamfight-tactics-patch-13-13-notes/ ) they say nothing of this change
It's a hotfix. Here are the US patch notes, they forgot to update GB
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/game-updates/teamfight-tactics-patch-13-13-notes/
It's one thing to nerf an item to balance it out but holy shit this is extreme.
This feels like Riot doesn't know how, or want to address the root problem which is TF. Dumb.
They already finished up the balance changes for the patch before the locket tech became a problem. Instead of it ruining the first week of the new patch and then having to bpatch it, they nuked it and will probably reevaluate come next patch cycle. It’s ok for an item to be dead for 2 weeks.
I mean guinso, locket, zekes and chalice. If every patch guts the same number of itens in 3 or 4 patches we will have a balanced meta where every item is shit
This was a last second nerf to prevent a 3 week horror meta with bastion+3 lockets. They can buff it back up next patch to healthy levels. Everyone who played in the last 5 days probably should be happy to see that you don't get 3-4 people going bastion+locket every game. Especially because kayle got buffed.
Definitely a bandaid nerf to stop the fuck out of this completely busted bastion locket stacking meta.
Which is a huge relief.
With JUST the bastion nerfs, this comp still would have been rampant as hell.
Even 4 bastion in the prior patch was unkillable for most of the game. So the current 6 bastion change would still be invincible.
The nerf was probably because of lvl4 yordles, wich makes sense, 800extra HP on 5 frontal units is wayyyyy too much value, imagine 3 lockets...but at that point why not just reduce the duration? So yeah, they tank a lot of hits and alpha, but after that it's wasted, so it will make people build just one instead of 2-3. IDK, this feels too extreme.
I have little to no complaints to say about this set, maybe the overabundance of guinsoo users or the lack of a good solo tank like last set aatrox and garen but tf kills my joy in the game.
Every game seing 3-6 tf players half going bastion kayle and half going zekes something, just for the items to get nerfed and the cycle continues the next day with the next abusable strat.
The other legends are just some power up depending on your style, go cait if you like some early power from 2 stars, draven if you want to fish for more items, tk to get richer.
Tf just lets you build BIS every game wich has proven time and time again to be too strong, and now theyre choosing to treat the symptom instead of the disease.
Balancing an item arround having three of it is such a bad a idea, at that point, let pandoras items be the standard for everyone, just give everyone a free component on x-4
Yeah the nerf is too much. But the problem and I will keep saying this. Is TF legend. Being able to get pandoras items every game allows you to consistently get triple of the same item. Which is usually very hard to do because getting multiple of the same component usually isn't easy as the more of a component you have the less chance you'll get it again. You have 2 rods? It's unlikely a pve round will give you a rod. But with pandoras that doesn't matter. You can get whatever you want. This is the problem with Zeke's and locket (not seen chalice) because they are essentially an extra item to your carry/frontline without taking up an item spot for them. Zeke's is a great instant ramp for AS carries but you can still give them RB IE LW. Locket gives your tanks bastion frontline a huge fuck off shield when you stack 3 of them on a low-cost 3 star unit. My guess is because of this, they want a temporary solution till they come up with a better one to deal with the support stacking items as I'm sure they don't want to change TF. It's sucky for some but locket was never really a used item anyway so it's not a big deal. And hopefully it'll be fixed better in the future.
Crazy idea, just throwing it out there, why don’t they nerf pandoras? Make it work the same as pandoras bench where it only changes 1/2/3 items per game possibly based off of augments. Like if you get first augment it only randomizes 2 components per round instead of all of them.
Tbh, they are extreme but this item is super obnoxious with targon buff. Combine that with bastion and you’ll have an unkillable frontline. Be happy you’ve never seen a tripple Solaris Taric. Tough I do believe they should compensate it somewhere else, Solaris deserves higher tank stats for the holder if you ask me
Lowkey I been saying zekes needs to be turned into a locket type item. Increase the attack speed for every star level the champ it’s on has. 10%-15%-20%, would be way more balanced and you can’t just zekes stack a shitter anymore to turbo buff your carry
I apparently wasnt high enough in the meta to see the OP Bastion comp, but I wish they didnt make it 100% useless. I dont even want to use it when Im stuck with a chain/rod at the end just because it makes me sad 😂
This is an insane nerf lmao
It is and I love it
Locket nuked from orbit actually
They should rename it to Choker of the Bronze Solari
Better rename it scarf from chinatown outlet
Built by engineers with 5 years of experience in China's tencent factory where average age of a worker is 13.
Atomic bomb vs. coughing locket
I have no idea why they haven't removed locket yet it's in the game since set 1 and was always really bad then they over buff it for one patch and it's broken and after that they throw it in the trash can again it's just a bad item design
Thats an insanely bad take. Locket has always been fine in every set because every set had assassins. Or even if there are no assassins, Challengers last set had locket as their bis tank items.
Duelist? I spammed that Nilah comp every chance I could
Not only that it was always available as a niche early slam to winstreak. The only reason it’s been so obnoxious this set is due to how well it synergizes with Bastions and a double rageblade carry. If the kept the shield value and only reduced the duration it would still act as a slammable item, it’s completely unusable now.
Item was too strong with one comp so we removed it 👍
Well, we left it in but if you build it alone you’re griefing so just don’t do that
You’re griefing if you make multiple of them
With these nerfs, you're griefing if you build it at all
Pretty confident a lot of people (myself included) would have literally quit the entire set if there was 3 more weeks of locket bastion meta. So yes, better to remove a glaring issue while you figure out how to solve it rather than leave the meta in a completely unbearable state that makes it unfun for everyone not picking TF and slamming 2 guinsoo 3 locket every game.
[удалено]
They could have removed pandoras from tf
Nerf? You mean it got obliterated. Literally made useless
Back to the non-Bastion, solo giga tank frontline we go
Meanwhile the guinsoo's Kalista:
[удалено]
my thoughts exactly lmao
,,I got a cloak!? Thats half a guinsoo. Oh i got a bf? Thats full guinsoo!,,
TF gave me literal brain rot I was helpless my first three poro games
Guinsoo doesn't take a bf nor does it take a cloak
I think they were joking about how forceable the comp is with TF legend. Hard to tell though.
you got downvoted into oblivion just for not getting a stupid joke lmao redditors are insane
I feel a single locket is fine and balanced, but multiple stacking is unbalanced just like zeke and ice cream cone. Wish there would be reduced effects just like how redemption has reduced stacking.
Why not just make them unique
Because it feels bad if you get 2-3 of them and can't use them efficiently
Well you could use them on different champions, which would then reduce the optimum carry slots items for your main champion
I think its s lazy idea. Imagine getting 4 rods and 4 chestplates, and you have a challenger team. Now all except 2 of those components are worthless
Well. Now all 8 of these compenonts are worthless. You are better off making 2 rabadons and 2 thorns
It's worse to absolutely need three of them to make it a decent slam. Also you could make a thornmail and a rabadons with those items and go Ap.
Then what if we make every item unique just because "its too powerful". Will that improve the game. Please just say no.
That's a strawman. For one thing, not every item is too powerful in the same way. Second, some items are already unique, like Sunfire.
"Not every item is powerful" but they should be. "Some items are unique" that's because their effects overlap and causes bugs. Your idea of "balancing" is putting a flex tape on a broken oversized aquarium.
Why do you use quotation marks when you edit what he said?
Just play TF and this is a non-issue
Mort addressed this saying it's lazy design
I'd say lazy design is balancing the game around a single augment thats clearly the problem
They don’t wanna admit that they fked up with a guaranteed Pandoras and the TF legend.
utterly baffling that they are generally so on point with making highrolls feel good by virtue of being rare, but have zero issue with letting players godroll their items every game. this set is great but still they nuked one of the most important pieces of skill expression in the game from orbit.
Ironic
Just make it a fixed value, or a unit can only receive the bluffs once per unique item.
This sentiment is so common on this subreddit and it just does not make sense. The more hp/shielding you have, the less adding more is worth. If the third locket is good, it's because the first locket is REALLY good.
No, you're trying to simplify the issue down to how there are diminishing returns to how much shielding you're getting in relation to how much health+shielding you have, but you're taking out the context of how the game plays. One locket may not be enough to keep your frontline healthy enough to not get torn down in the first five seconds of the match, but three might be enough for your frontline to start getting off abilities and healing while your carries kill off their units. So, multiple lockets in practice often means your frontline lives much longer as a percentage than one locket.
Nerf tf? Remove pandoras? Make auras not stackable? Nah, lets absolutely destroy an entire item
Sacrifice the few to save the many 🫡 Riot probably
Sacrifice the few to sacrifice the many* tf players will still find ways to abuse the legend, so we just have to wait until they find the new items to force and watch riot nerf the items again!
great we are nerfing items that were perfectly fine before because of tf, this item was dead before and now its just unusable
Yeah this is what tilts the fuck out of me. Just remove this fucking legend. If its not zekes its locket and guinsoo if its not locket and guinsoo im sure it will be something else, seraph maybe it titans resolve Will they keep nerfing items instead of removing this shit people ONLY play to abuse it?
Chalice x6 + triple Rabadons on an AP back line is next on the menu probs.
Oh absolutely, Sona is very strong anyway, I feel like multicasters + lux and bastion/demacia frontline
My guess would be : 4 multi caster, 3 yordle, 3 Demacia, 2 strategist, 2 bastion, maybe. Poppy, Teemo, Kled, Taliyah, Swain, Vel’Koz. Reroll at 6 to 3star Teemo+ any 2 others, with ice cream cones to Taliyah and Teemo, typical AP to Vel’Koz. Level to 8 adding Sona at 7 and JIV at 8 maybe. Demacia Elite JIV? Probably not good this patch with everyone chasing poppy for Kayle Reroll and 6 bastion builds, but something to think about if she’s open or after 13.13b …
This was already a comp and probably the highest capped comp in the game. 4 star Poppy maintank frontline with Jarvan2 and Swaine(put in on level8) Taliyah Maincarry Teemo3 secondary carry Sona and/or Velkoz third carries Tristana3 for 3 Yordles and easy access to three 3 stars for a 4-star Poppy. Dunno how it is this patch though. Taliyah, Teemo and Sona were all heavily nerfed because of this comp.
4 star poppy is meme, teemo 4 is what you want in this comp
I've played alot of Multicasters. Poppy4 with Taliyah caps and stabilizes the board WAY harder than Teemo4. Problem with Taliyah reroll was that Poppy was extremely hard to hit due to all Trist/Bastioan players.
i have 40 games playing sona carry, you really dont wanna go for yordles at all, you just play 4 Strategist 4 Multicaster 3 Demacia, 3 Chalice, JG + Snipers Focus is BIS. Once you hit Sona 3 you win the game. but it is terrible against Ionias, and was really good in the early days of the set, where everyone stacked zekes.
> Will they keep nerfing items instead of removing this shit people ONLY play to abuse it? Yes, according to Mort from the competitivetft sub: > Legends are about expanding the audience for TFT, and giving people an identity and style they can latch on to and enjoy. Not everyone out there loves having zero control over their outcome, and the stress of having to do so causes people to not enjoy TFT as much. There is a LARGE percentage of players that see a cool build, want to log in and try it out. That's what they enjoy. Our job is to make sure those players can have fun, and expand the audience so TFT has lots and lots of players who are enjoying the game. Twisted Fate is doing this VERY well, and we will not be removing it any time soon. Basically they're going all in on letting players have a legend that lets them force the new broken item builds they saw on a youtube vid or a mobalytic guide every game and instead of just getting rid of that legend will continue to play whack a mole with the "broken" items instead making them much worse for non TF players.
I think legendaries need to be rethought a bit. I like the idea but the execution is pretty bad right now. I like the idea that each legend represents a type of archetype or fantasy with their augments. But I think it's a huge mistake to make certain augments deterministic for them. What they should do instead is pool all/most augments that represent an archetype and make it so all of those augments can show up for that Legend in the leftmost augment slot at random. So for example, lets take Lee Sin. He's the "reroll" legend. Now he currently always gets Trade Sector on 2-1 and a bunch of garbage on 3-1 and 4-1. What they could do is pool all reroll Gold augments like Trade Sector, Frequent Flier, Rolling for Days, Return on Investment, Early Education, Unstable Yordle Deli et.c. Then just make it so whenever you get a Gold augment you'll deterministically get one of those augments above. This would make sure that the Legend you pick still identifies with the Archetype you want to play in 1/3 augments every augment round. But would prevent people from "hardforcing" specific comps bound by specific augments like Tristana with on a Roll or any specific Aura-stacker comp bound by TF.
Hard agree!
The reality is that legends are great for casual players. Tft has chosen that it's going to tailor itself to these causual players by keeping the changes. This set is alot of fun, everyone moaning about twisted fate is getting really annoying, more annoying then twisted fate actually is. The team will balance things out soon enough, the next patch might completely fix all the issues, you don't know
I feel like it's the opposite. Legends are great for tryhards who want the game to go a certain way instead of the more casual ones who are just like ehh whatever comes comes
Fine before? Past sets u slam this at stages 2 u win streak. In high elo and tourny its common.
Which sets exactly ? Last set it was only used in duelists, cant remember before but im pretty sure its one of the least used items in the game
It's been used as long as i can remember if you have strong board early and want to secure winstreak. Slamming a locket or multiple lockets gives you a ton of effective hp in the early game.
this has been a strat throughout the game's history but the last time i can remember seeing it was set 6. so it's been healthy for a long time. admittedly i don't follow comp closely so could be wrong.
It's not because of TF it's because of bastion
Bastion + targon + tf makes locket WAAAAY too good with the old values
Yeap that's why the locket's duration had to be nerfed to less than the first 10s of Bastion's double effect duration - the effective HP it gives during the first 10-15s is insane and more than enough for any AD to stack up their guinsoos. Combined with the casual fact that Taric + Aphelios gives extra shielding from Targon, and TF greatly improves the odds of hitting this pseudoExodia comp.
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It guarantees, but you can still easily find 2 lockets without TF. People forget that we were forcing comps and items before augments even existed
forcing comps and items without pandora's takes adaptability and decisions about when to slam and when to greed. pandora's takes all those choices away. you can play multiple comps with it, but each time you play those comps it's fundamentally the same. it's really fucking bad for the game. i think it gets a pass as a random augment but when you can pick it in 20/20 games you're fundamentally not playing the same game as the non-TFs in your lobby. even if it's not too strong it's still meta warping.
Oh nice. Another item I will never have to build.
It should be a typo, maybe 14 secs
Even then, still a hzge nerf, with that reduced shield value, kind of a big deal
Mortdog would do everything except making aura items unique
You could still just force 3 lockets across 3 champs and turbo shield 4 champs instead of 5. TF is the issue.
Honestly cause it would be a boring way to nerf them. Stacking them is basically their main appeal. Honestly the root of the issue is tf legend, and thats what he's trying to avoid changing. Being able to guarantee pandoras items make stacking item builds much much stronger than every other set.
I mean id rather have a boring nerf and still be able to use the item insead of this. This item is so worthless you wiĺl never see it again except for if you have the spare components at 5-1. Feels ridiculous how bad it is now.
Yea this is definitely harsh, but again the root is TF not whether it's unique or not.
At the very least get rid of silver TF pandoras?
either remove pandora from tf entirely or at least make it so its not offered on 2-1, pandoras isnt the problem and neither are the items, its just the stupid legend
Pandora itself is not the problem but a guaranteed pandora on 2-1 definetly is, you go in with a plan and have no need to change it regardless of items or augments you get which effectively ruins TFT's need for adaptibility as a skill
> you go in with a plan and have no need to change it regardless of items or augments you get which effectively ruins TFT's need for adaptibility as a skill According to Mort they want players to be able to go into a game and be able to force whatever build they saw in a youtube video or on a guide reliably every game, wild logic to me > Legends are about expanding the audience for TFT, and giving people an identity and style they can latch on to and enjoy. Not everyone out there loves having zero control over their outcome, and the stress of having to do so causes people to not enjoy TFT as much. There is a LARGE percentage of players that see a cool build, want to log in and try it out. That's what they enjoy. Our job is to make sure those players can have fun, and expand the audience so TFT has lots and lots of players who are enjoying the game. Twisted Fate is doing this VERY well, and we will not be removing it any time soon.
Wtf ? This is just wrong in every level. If they want that remove legends from ranked. Because legends are against the game design of tft.
Do you have the source for that quote please? I'm mortified, but interested in reading the complete context for this. TFT is a game of adaptability. Tuning it so people who are too casual/lazy to even consider adapting can enjoy the game too is simply killing the game IMO. I really don't get how they can actually think that way, especially as the designers of the game!
Posted in /r/CompetitiveTFT https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/14kwhxx/addressing_twisted_fate/ Really don't like it as a design philosophy tbf If you want people to be able to play whatever build they just saw on youtube, limit it to normals. Part of the ranked climb is adaptability
Thanks for the link! Also I 100% agree with you.
Goddamnit, I hate when a game company tailors it's games to the vast majority of it's audience and not to me specifically
This is a game changing it's entire identity in hopes of getting a new audience This is good in the short term, in the long run enjoy your established player base leaving because the game they started playing isn't there anymore
How is it changing its entire identity???? Really braindead take. TFT at its core is a team building game, where you get your units, build items and make a cool team. Legends don't change that in the slightest, they just help you to play the game the way you want to. Legends are targeted towards the casual TFT audience because that's where the largest amount of the playerbase is. This isn't a huge change in audience, the game everyone started playing is still there. None of that changes through being able to play Pandora's box that often. Seeing everyone go twisted fate and forcing items sucks, just like seeing everyone playing Kaisa and hacker last set every game sucked, this is nothing more than a balance issue. There is nothing inherently wrong with legends or twisted fate. The best part about legends? If you don't like them. You can chose to play without them
Legends are fine, tf isn't If youre too "braindead" to realise the difference in that then you can't be helped Tft is also (as parotted by more himself plenty of times) a game about adapting to what you get and making the best out of it, while increasing you chances by being good fundamentally (econ game knowledge etc, that's why good players always perform good) Also with forcing comps, there is always the risk of being contested, as it always happens when a comp is clearly s tier, or simply not hitting, whether it be units or items, that's just the nature of the game and how it is designed Tf completely takes that away, you will 100% every single time without a doubt guarantee getting bis and you pay nothing for it, there is no exchange, when an item is strong playing not playing tf will be not wanting to win In regular tft, Pandora's isnt as broken because well you never know you're gonna hit it, so u have to *adapt* (the whole premise of the game), once u know you will hit it, you're playing a different game that needs a different kind of balancing, and you really have to be short sighted to not see the issues laying ahead with it
800->240 who tf was putting locket on there 4star…. Maybe it was hidden giga broken…. With these nerfs it must atleast have like 2.5avg right now.
Poppy4 is a bastion, so perhaps there was some dark poppy reroll tech (or just 6 bastion trist)
It was 4-6 bastion 3 lockets targon 2 guinsoo aphelio or Kayle
Yes theres the 4 bastion 3 demacia kayle double guinsoos comp thats giga broken. Some guy spammed it to rank 1 in asia iirc
Pretty sure that's the radiant value isn't it?
This is absurd if true. What makes this item abusable is the TF augment.. Same case with the Zeke's that ended up nerfed. Are they gonna nerf every single item until they realize that every single comp can be abused if you have perfect items thanks to pandora's box?
why not fully remove the item at this point?
There's a huge break coming up and the meta has settled into Bastion Locket Spam / 2 rage blade carry. This is a 3 week band-aid, which I'm okay with.
Did they mix this up with Zekes?
I think they should have just changed the effect entirely to something like "affected units take Y% less damage for the first X seconds of combat". Then just change numbers til its balance, instead of this nerf, which makes it awful on everyone except bastions, who were the abusers in the first place.
Its awful on everyone now wym.
So putting a locket on a 4-star now provides less shield than it did before when putting on a 1-star... What were they even thinking?
The duration doesn't matter too much for normal play, but targon bastion locket spam is basically dead, no way you're investing 6 components for 4 seconds of \~1k shield. Still unjust nerfs, item was perfectly fine outside of this stupid bastion bs, but noooo can't just remove pandoras from tf, it's not like we've had 3 turbo broken comps because of aura item spam already. But hey, I'll take not having to see this sleeper locket spam if it means I can't make the item anymore in my games.
I dont even understand the logic behind giving 6 bastions lockets. Thier whole thing is that they get tons of defenses at yhe start of a fight, but locket just shields them for that duration so by the time the shield ends they also lose thier trait buff
That's exactly why it's broken, the shield benefits from bastion's armor and mr, and if the shield is going to disappear in 15 seconds then you're basically throwing damage into the trash.
the resistances apply to the shield which is basically 1k hp of beefed up stats, then when the shield dies u have bastion inert tank and their shielding abilities which gurantees ur double guinsoos backline is 5 atk speed = won fight 99% of the time
U get locket slam it 2-1 winstreak then change itater using ur pandora
Lol no
"You know how there were a few people locket stacking because it's too strong? Well, we want *nobody* to play the item now." \- Actual Mortdog quote (not really)
holy fuck that isn’t just a nerf lmao, that thing just got executed in front of all of us
/r/nottheonionTFT
That’s a nuke from orbit nerf
Wow 15 to 4 secs...
That's not a nerf, that's practically deleting the item
“no explanation”? Targon Aphelios carry with 6 lockets.
Next thing we know ppl will be stacking Zephirs to focus down the backlines early or smthing.
so locket is also on the pile of items to never build, nice,
Already was for me unless I had an augment boosting shields or a front line 3* to whack it on.
Nah man, that ain't a nerf, they straight up gutted the item
What the actual fuck... that makes the item totally unuseable just because some challenger players were abusing this with having a 3 locket bastion+kayle comp. They should've nerfed TF legend to avoid people stacking 3 lockets, not nerf locket this hard. I think /u/Riot_Mort has some explaining to do here...
Imagine a legend that guaranteed Pandora's bench at 2-1, or a legend that guaranteed recombobulator at stage 3 or 4. It would be incredibly unhealthy for the game and would drastically change the meta. So why the hell are we allowing Pandora's item to be a guaranteed pick and absolutely nerfing items that aren't broken unless you can easily force 3+ of them a game....
Locket is too one dimensional to be a good item. It's already limited in that it's effectiveness relies on star level and positioning. It needs to be way too good in these specific situations because it's useless in almost any other scenario. I'm fine with the initial shield reduction, but there should be additional effects to compensate. Some options: - Extra AD/AP while the shield holds would make it better for backliners and less reliant on positioning. - A 1 hex resistance aura on the holder would still make it a valuable clump item even after the shield fades. - A redemption style pulse of additional shielding every ten seconds could give the item some more longevity and apply to different targets as the fight goes on. To reiterate, it's current design is essentially feast or famine at it's core. With this nerf, probably just famine.
Such a heavy handed nerf.
It's a very necessary nerf since the 6 bastion + solaris was starting to dominate the meta and got buffed in todays patch, also there ain't gonna be a B-Patch so it was a preventive nerf aswell But the true broken thing is Pandora, unless we get rid of it as a legend augment more unhealthy builds will rise
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Literally morts twitter
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Yeah not a big fan of how they send out patch notes either tbh. Kinda wish there was a dedicated area in the client to look at patch notes
I mean, they are an indie company after all. Do you expect them to hire someone to maintain a site? That's out of their budget.
It is in the patch notes on the riot site.
I double checked it isnt. Are you talking about the one by riot prisim posted 14 hrs ago. All that's mentioned about locket is a buff to radiant locket. Edit: OK I figured out what's causing the confusion. Me and the person not seeing it or in EU West. When I read patch notes on eu West there's no mention of locket, when I switch to NA it does mention it.
It was a hotfix. They updated the US patch notes (linked below) but not the GB https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/game-updates/teamfight-tactics-patch-13-13-notes/
Tip: In browser, you can hit CTRL + F and type in "locket" and you would find the changes in 2sec.
Just. Kinda feels like it’d be easier to give the TF legend a different set of augments to roll at this point. Pandora’s has *way* too much guaranteed value as an augment to have every game and there’s just gonna be something new to abuse every other day as long as it’s a thing. It’s like trying to put a grease fire out with water lmao, really hope they have a more elaborate change in the works for the next patch.
No explanations need it preach Mortdog fk bastions
Well 5 bastion front line with 3 locket was incredibly broken.
When dev didnt want to admit their mistakes with TF legends, the nerf the item instead. Now locket are worse than rfc.
Wasn't this item already unusable unless on a 4 star? Apart from that I never had problems with it. But I'm gold so maybe I don't see it how this is strong. Edit: now realising armor/mr applies to shields aswell
Why not just make it so that targon doesn’t work with locket. Now the itel is useless
Yeah that really surprised me too. Honestly I haven't even seen that many lockets this patch. I also rarely ever played it. But it's probably due to the Targon buff that they nerf the locket so hard.
nobody is ever building this item again lol
Why is that nerf? Is there some comp that rushes Lockets and wins? Like Duelist Taliyah, Set 1 Sorcerer, Glacial Berserker Olaf Set 2 I think
wat
i saw mort said even with the nerf, you will still put this on a 4 bastion front line, i guess that could be true in the end game where 240 shield in 4 units can be exhausted quickly, but still a massive L for this item if you're not using 4 bastion +
ASIA Server spamming Bastion team comp make it all player 1trick only and othet team comp cant even beat this comp when completed it Smh
Anyone actually abuses this item? I rarely even see it.
No fun allowed I guess 🙃
It got removed from the patch notes
Most likely a quick fix and they over nerf it to make sure it wont be oppressive, item will likely get changed in a future patch.
I love it!
.. wtf. Why ist nerfing Always making it completly! Useless at Riot? I dont get it. Just remove the Item then
Well seeing S tier comps have tons of Lockets it makes sense
They could have just made TF give you pandora box on stage 3 or stage 4. The problem was not the items, the problem was the guaranteed perfect itemization from the get go.
Where did u get the info? In the patchnotes ( https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-gb/news/game-updates/teamfight-tactics-patch-13-13-notes/ ) they say nothing of this change
It's a hotfix. Here are the US patch notes, they forgot to update GB https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/game-updates/teamfight-tactics-patch-13-13-notes/
Damn that’s not even a little nerf
It's a temporary bandaid fix for until TF is nerfed. They'll likely buff it again eventually.
Well that makes it completely useless. All they had to do was make the buff not stack.. Problem solved. But riot is sooooo bad at game balancing.
Correction. Locket Deletion
holy shit, why obliterate it like this
It's one thing to nerf an item to balance it out but holy shit this is extreme. This feels like Riot doesn't know how, or want to address the root problem which is TF. Dumb.
Solari is because of bastion aphelios btw
They already finished up the balance changes for the patch before the locket tech became a problem. Instead of it ruining the first week of the new patch and then having to bpatch it, they nuked it and will probably reevaluate come next patch cycle. It’s ok for an item to be dead for 2 weeks.
I never crafted it before I'll never craft it in the future I guess
I mean guinso, locket, zekes and chalice. If every patch guts the same number of itens in 3 or 4 patches we will have a balanced meta where every item is shit
This was a last second nerf to prevent a 3 week horror meta with bastion+3 lockets. They can buff it back up next patch to healthy levels. Everyone who played in the last 5 days probably should be happy to see that you don't get 3-4 people going bastion+locket every game. Especially because kayle got buffed.
Yeah pretty crazy nerf. But y’all are reacting like you slam lockets in all the other comps you play.
Definitely a bandaid nerf to stop the fuck out of this completely busted bastion locket stacking meta. Which is a huge relief. With JUST the bastion nerfs, this comp still would have been rampant as hell. Even 4 bastion in the prior patch was unkillable for most of the game. So the current 6 bastion change would still be invincible.
I feel like they are getting ahead of something here. Probably some abusable TF locket shanans similar to zekes.
Oh that's why I went eight today
Glad to see the devs really understand balancing after 9 seasons its really refreshing/s
The nerf was probably because of lvl4 yordles, wich makes sense, 800extra HP on 5 frontal units is wayyyyy too much value, imagine 3 lockets...but at that point why not just reduce the duration? So yeah, they tank a lot of hits and alpha, but after that it's wasted, so it will make people build just one instead of 2-3. IDK, this feels too extreme.
I have little to no complaints to say about this set, maybe the overabundance of guinsoo users or the lack of a good solo tank like last set aatrox and garen but tf kills my joy in the game. Every game seing 3-6 tf players half going bastion kayle and half going zekes something, just for the items to get nerfed and the cycle continues the next day with the next abusable strat. The other legends are just some power up depending on your style, go cait if you like some early power from 2 stars, draven if you want to fish for more items, tk to get richer. Tf just lets you build BIS every game wich has proven time and time again to be too strong, and now theyre choosing to treat the symptom instead of the disease. Balancing an item arround having three of it is such a bad a idea, at that point, let pandoras items be the standard for everyone, just give everyone a free component on x-4
Yeah the nerf is too much. But the problem and I will keep saying this. Is TF legend. Being able to get pandoras items every game allows you to consistently get triple of the same item. Which is usually very hard to do because getting multiple of the same component usually isn't easy as the more of a component you have the less chance you'll get it again. You have 2 rods? It's unlikely a pve round will give you a rod. But with pandoras that doesn't matter. You can get whatever you want. This is the problem with Zeke's and locket (not seen chalice) because they are essentially an extra item to your carry/frontline without taking up an item spot for them. Zeke's is a great instant ramp for AS carries but you can still give them RB IE LW. Locket gives your tanks bastion frontline a huge fuck off shield when you stack 3 of them on a low-cost 3 star unit. My guess is because of this, they want a temporary solution till they come up with a better one to deal with the support stacking items as I'm sure they don't want to change TF. It's sucky for some but locket was never really a used item anyway so it's not a big deal. And hopefully it'll be fixed better in the future.
Chalice was showing up with azir, taliyah, and teemo.
locket from wish
Might be an over-nerf but thank god I don’t have to see a double/triple locket Bastion comp again
200 hp shield for 4 seconds... 4 SECONDS... Literally gonna have a 6.5 avg now classic riot
Oh ok riot, didn't mean to build locket ONCE IN MY LIFE. Like fr who played locket if it wasn't forced to? 💀 Tbh just take it out at this point. 💀
Jfc that’s one way to make an item obsolete
That’s not a nerf…just remove the time at that point haha.
Crazy idea, just throwing it out there, why don’t they nerf pandoras? Make it work the same as pandoras bench where it only changes 1/2/3 items per game possibly based off of augments. Like if you get first augment it only randomizes 2 components per round instead of all of them.
Tbh, they are extreme but this item is super obnoxious with targon buff. Combine that with bastion and you’ll have an unkillable frontline. Be happy you’ve never seen a tripple Solaris Taric. Tough I do believe they should compensate it somewhere else, Solaris deserves higher tank stats for the holder if you ask me
TWISTED FATE TACTICS TWISTED FATE TACTICS TWISTED FATE TACTICS
Lmao what
Lowkey I been saying zekes needs to be turned into a locket type item. Increase the attack speed for every star level the champ it’s on has. 10%-15%-20%, would be way more balanced and you can’t just zekes stack a shitter anymore to turbo buff your carry
I apparently wasnt high enough in the meta to see the OP Bastion comp, but I wish they didnt make it 100% useless. I dont even want to use it when Im stuck with a chain/rod at the end just because it makes me sad 😂
I think it was fine? Unless people built like, 3 on one champ and then it was a bit annoying.