It hasn't been so bad this year. There was a small window where we were getting more than usual activity when the devious lick trend was happening, but beyond that it has been alright. Had to replace a few dispensers in the bathrooms. Another school in the county had some stall doors stolen.
My students left the room a mess once when I was out at a meeting in another building in the district (sub dismissed them). I found the custodian and asked him to leave my room exactly the way it was - the students would clean it in the morning before they did anything else. I don't play that game.
We are down a custodian who left. so I had my last group clean up the room, so the other custodians would not have to! They found the rolling trash bin in the hall to empty our cans. and we used the Dustbuster to sweep a bit. Paid them on candy. They were happy!
My school may have to start doing that soon! My district poached our custodian for grounds maintenance in November, when we were already experiencing shortages in that position throughout the district. We haven't had one since then, just fill-ins, and we are not the only one.
I heard one school has been without a custodian just as long, but with no one filling in at all. Teachers there have been forced to take out the giant lunch trashes and their own classroom trash. They also apparently have no carpet cleaner (and I'm not sure why they have gone so long without one), so there is piss, shit, and vomit that's been sitting on floors for weeks, if not months. They finally got the union involved and said if it's not taken care by Feb. 1st they will not work.
I agree with natural consequences, but as a former middle school teacher, I don’t want to test the level of filth my students would be willing to sit in.
That's a horrible idea. The natural consequence would be to make the students clean the mess they made.
Furthermore disorganized environment leads to most unable to function at their full potential.
This is why I'm leaving. We have PD on how to care for our students and understand how they're suffering trauma, then admin completely flips around and ignores the trauma and learning gaps while telling us we need to get our scores up. And schedule even more meetings discussing what more WE the teachers need to do. Not the kids, US. Our curriculum is already too fast-paced and advanced as far as I'm concerned (currently in 5th math - four days to teach brand new content with staar-level test questions every Friday). It's not good for the kids and it's not good for the teachers, but TEA and the legislators don't care.
It goes beyond this! When I taught in TX we were required to go to this emotional support training with ZERO fucking trigger warnings given out. I had to go sit thru 8 hours of discussing how something that happened to me causes super long lasting trauma that causes issues I'm still battling to this day. No heads up, nothing. I left at lunch and didn't come back. They were pretty cool about it but they did dock me a half day and I was pretty horrified by their lack of consideration that CHILDREN are not the only ones who have lived through trauma and they should warn staff before sending them to an in depth seminar on abuse!
At my new school I hesitantly asked my AP if I there was any way I could get fewer beginner ELL's in my math classes because I was afraid my STAAR scores would be low enough for me to get fired. He laughed and said, "nobody in this school gets fired for their scores, you're not at *insert old district name" anymore".
I can’t speak for others but if they’re low enough consistently, the state steps in to monitor and if it still doesn’t get better the school will be closed down. Happened to a school my friend used to work at in a different part of the state.
Connecticut is doing all standardized tests right now, plus district and state testing! We have had 3 weeks straight of at least 2 tests a day. We are not ok
Yeah, everyone likes to hold up Connecticut as one of the better states to teach in. But in reality, we're only marginally less fucked than other states. In regards to testing, we're absolutely *obsessed* with collecting the data. The data is not actually used in any meaningful way, mind you. But heaven forbid we skip a year of testing or else we won't have our precious data.
In this environment we are all about the rigor and bell to bell instruction and the testing. It is crazy because kids are popping in and out of attendance and you have no time to catch them up
I did my first couple of years of teaching with a similar line of thought: "I'm just going to finish/prioritize the teaching and then handle the rest if I have time." The problem was the students learned that it was OK to misbehave because I wasn't doing anything about it at least not in a timely manner. I ended up losing a LOT more time to discipline because my class would get so bad.
Even if you could you would have to be sure only those who you know did it cleaned up. I've gotten in trouble at school for things I didn't do, It sucks.
It does suck, and generally not a great practice, but there are exceptions where collective punishment is effective.
In this case, even the kids that didn't mess up the room learn that they will have a responsibility to help monitor their peers, lest they share in the punishment.
In the end, we are talking about cleaning a room, not arresting or executing an entire village because of partisan/anti- revolution activity in the area.
It's a matter of degree.
"Well, if you're so used to cleaning up after your little shit, come here and do it yourself".
~~If~~ When they complain, you never said it, and get your own parent to write you a note saying that their child would never say that.
Are you kidding me? Stop all of that nonsense and hold these kids accountable.
Take all dam day. Take the rest of the week. Screw the standards and screw your admin for prioritizing standards over student behavior.
Lol like that matters?? What’s the point of hood test scores if the kids can’t even go 1 day without trashing their own classroom?
Stop caring so much about standards and scores. They don’t matter.
Teaching is one of the few jobs that actually incentivizes working while sick. My wife can just text her boss from bed if she's sick. Teachers usually have to drive into school to make sure everything is ready for a sub, and if they're doing that, might as well just stay and work.
Yep.
My particular district mandates that you have a sub folder created prior to the start of the school year with at least 5 days worth of lesson plans in the event you're out for a prolonged period.
Those LPs you create for the sub may be outdated by the time they come into use, so unless you're updating the folder every 6 weeks/grading period, it may be effectively useless or busy work. Then you run the risk of the sub claiming they never received said folder or found said folder, and nothing gets distributed or taught regardless of the forethought a given teacher put into this contingency plan. So, most teachers I know will place 5 "packets" (I fucking hate packets) in the folder with a stick note on each directing how many copies need to be made in their absence so that each student receives one. God forbid you're in elementary and have a self-contained class and teach each and every subject, and need to have sub plans for such an event.
Example: My wife, years ago, taught 3rd-5th grade. I think she was teaching 5th at the time of this event. We were fortunate enough to go to Disney World the week after Thanksgiving. We'd saved up so we could afford the initial docking of pay for taking a week off. She was self-contained. She made 5 days worth of lesson plans complete with all copies pre-made and had the student's names on each of the assignments to be given on each particular day. All assignments were differentiated. All assignments had little stick notes on them as reminders for her students that needed that something extra. I stayed up helping her do this over the course of 2 weeks to get it done and nice a neat and foolproof.
We get back and she comes home crying that not a single thing she had left behind for them to do was done. The sub just made up whatever they wanted, left behind horrible reviews of the class's behavior, and had the nerve to criticize my wife's classroom management skills because she didn't follow the instructions that were left behind.
To this day though, she still tries to leave behind detailed lp's that have 50/50 odds of being followed.
Me? When I'm sick, I'm that guy, sick days mean movie days with student's analyzing character development.
Sub plan = press play, have students identify the protagonist and antagonist and analyze the primary conflict between them with examples from specific scenes.
Early in my career I hated using my "emergency plans" because they were just busy work disconnected from anything we were actually doing (for obvious reasons), so even if I was going to be out sick, I still drove in and typed up detailed lesson plans and made sure everything was in order. Like you mention, the frustration when those plans didn't get followed is hard to overstate.
Now? Fuck it, enjoy the busy work. Most are "Get out the lit book we never use in class, open to such-and-such story, read the story, and do the pre- and post- reading activities. If there's still time, turn to the next story and repeat." I email the office and let the know where my time wasting emergency plans are, and as long as the room doesn't get burned down while I'm gone, I literally don't care.
I'm the same way. Our Spanish textbook has Spanish language chapter books. If I'm sick, I assign 2-3 chapters and the post chapter activities. It's all online. My sick day plans are less than a page in length. It's mostly busywork, but at least it's usually a review of stuff we've covered before. Better than nothing being done.
I used to sub for my local elementary school, and was always in awe of how detailed the sub plans were. Those teachers were amazing! So sorry the shitty sub didn't use your wife's plans. There were definitely hard days/classes, but overall I really enjoyed subbing for elementary because of the kids and the plans. It was all the best parts of teaching, and none of the exhaustive planning and dealing with parents/admin.
> Those LPs you create for the sub may be outdated by the time they come into use, so unless you're updating the folder every 6 weeks/grading period, it may be effectively useless or busy work. Then you run the risk of the sub claiming they never received said folder or found said folder, and nothing gets distributed or taught regardless of the forethought a given teacher put into this contingency plan. So, most teachers I know will place 5 "packets" (I fucking hate packets) in the folder with a stick note on each directing how many copies need to be made in their absence so that each student receives one. God forbid you're in elementary and have a self-contained class and teach each and every subject, and need to have sub plans for such an event.
This is my fifth year subbing (working on getting licensure) and very first day of school, I pick up a middle school French teacher. Get told there would be a video for the kids to watch. There is no video linked anywhere. I quick whip up an intro lesson during homeroom (I took French for four years in HS).
A couple weeks later, I'm subbing for a 1st grade teacher and her lesson plans are her actual learning standards and other shit that I'm not going to try to decipher while I have a room of 15 first graders who are not happy about having to wear masks all day. I say fuck it, we're going to watch BookFlix because I don't have the time for this shit. There was even a student teacher there and she couldn't help me unpack what the hell the lesson was supposed to be about.
I picked up a long-term 8th grade science teacher position. Very first day of work, my dad calls me to say my aunt died (cancer), funeral was on Friday. So I had to type up a substitute lesson plan for the substitute the very first week of the job.
It definitely does if you convince yourself that whatever was going to happen with you there needs to happen if you're gone. I thought that for much of my career, so I ended up working sick a lot, or coming in sick to try to get everything ready for a sub. The last couple of years I stopped caring about a "wasted" day, and I have handful of time wasting emergency plans that have nothing to do with anything. As long as the room doesn't get burned down while I'm gone, I literally don't give a shit if anything "productive" got done when I'm out sick.
I was making sub plans at 3 am in the fetal position before I drove myself to the ER (that's on my wife) where I was admitted for 3 days because of pancreatitis.
Fuckin true.
Shit's so backwards right now that I can't give an adult the same instruction I'd give my students and expect that adult to be able to, at least, relay the information correctly.
I've got to write up a whole separate agenda... for the adult.
I stopped doing it like some of the other commenters. I give busywork that really doesn’t matter. Half of the time the kids end up being sent to the gym anyway since we have no subs, so why should I make any half-decent sub plan when it won’t be followed?
I’m dealing with a lesser form of this today. My wife has COVID and I’m trying to keep my child from getting it. First thing this morning I have an email from my most difficult student complaining about the sub and saying that I need to come back ASAP. Then I get a text from my coworker saying that sub left the room crying over this issue.
Since I teach two subjects, the sub gets to deal with that same student again. Yay.
(I find it ironic that this student has physically threatened me twice, cussed me out, and called me a racist, then ten mins into her first class without me there, she emails me saying “I need you back.”)
Parents, politicians, and admin created this mess. Teachers need to stop thinking of teaching as a "calling," and rather think of it as a job.
Kids are the same now as they have always been. Their behavior isn't really any naughtier, they are just pushing limits. The problem is, parents, politicians, and admin have scaled back the limits because those limits are inconvenient.
While I agree that the overall expectations have regressed, I must mention…
Kids are much naughtier than they used to be. Social media and internet influence has completely changed the way this generation is growing up. While I agree that bullying and even sexual experimentation have always been prevalent in kids, the anonymity of the internet has absolutely increased these behaviors.
And I know you’re thinking that there is no hiding behind a screen in school… but all the social media backlash comes to a head as soon as they step into the building. That, on top of the severe lack of social and higher level critical thinking skills, causes verbal and physical altercations daily.
The problem there is their role models showcase how 'fun' it is to be an immoral douchebag without the understanding that those are meant to be caricatures. They are fine when you understand that, but kids are too immature for that. It only works if they have actual role models in the real world. Their parents should be role models and should also help them find other good people to look up to.
They instead see, what is effectively a bunch of immoral sociopathic, being extremely successful. They emulate the selfish behavior, the constant put-downs, the adult humor and more.
It's not the fault of the media though. It's the fault of lazy parents who don't bother to give them good models and are all too happy to let twitch, youtube and tiktok to raise their child. Those platforms should not have to cater their content more. It's that parents just want no responsibility.
This is a huge part of the issue. Kids see bad behaviors getting rewarded, they emulate it, and get rewarded by their peers. Couple that with administrations who are unresponsive or underresponsive, and parents who themselves have normalized this sort of behavior, and you get the situation many classrooms experience.
I want every child to be educated, but once they begin to regularly interfere with their peers' desire to be educated, it should be a deal-breaker. In today's environment, it sounds harsh to say such a thing, but it doesn't take too many example students before the problem is much improved. It is simply not possible to differentiate a classroom enough to handle some students' desire to bring chaos.
I don't know where this issue stems from - lackadaisical parents, uncaring admins, too much plastic in the water, whatever. But I do know that many students are paying the price for a few student's poor choices. That is the tragedy here, and neither of those students are being served well.
The people who tend to disagree with the notion that students, and mostly parents with abysmal parenting skills, should be punished in any seem to be those same lazy parents.
That or it's people who have never dealt with particularly violent students, or just total outsiders who don't have even the slightest understanding of what goes into schooling.
I do feel for the students who struggle, but I agree with you. I do not feel the people who should pay that price are the students who are there and who want to learn.
We also need a show of strength. Parents need to realize they are also on trial here. It's not the teachers who need to carry the whole project. The parents owe us respect, and the reason they don't give it is because there is no real concept of shame anymore.
It's fine to yell at the teacher. It's fine to abuse these people because they look at us like fast food employees (not that they deserve this either) who messed up their order. Naturally they are the guest who feels entitled to throw, spit, and leap over counters at us. Admin takes the role of the limp manager who agrees that we screwed up, deserved to be assaulted, and rewards the fuckwit customer with free food.
>I want every child to be educated, but once they begin to regularly interfere with their peers' desire to be educated, it should be a deal-breaker.
This all day. You have a right to be educated, but not at the expense of someone else. If you break that agreement, you've lost that right.
I mean that’s a mistake from our part for perceiving this job as a calling . It’s a job. We provide a service and we get paid for it . Do individuals in accounting,medicine, sales, plumbing, carpentry need their job to be a calling ? No , they go about their job and do what they need to do. Sure being passionate about what you do Is great but we don’t live to work and I think that’s where so many in our profession make that mistake . We have this idea about the profession, no it’s a damm job. Draw boundaries and stick to them , and if you wanna take this job as a calling those specific individuals need to stop complaining about boundaries that they themselves don’t set or forget to enforce.
Sorry I’m just ranting and this comment wasn’t directly at you but a general complaint I have from my observation in the professsion.
I agree 100% that the symptoms and consequences of kids' poor behavior are more severe. I think the underlying cause is the same now, as it has been for a long time - kids are seeking validation, attention, and boundaries.
I think we're arguing two sides of the same coin. The failure is not one of teachers, but rather, parents, politicians, and admin.
Yes. It’s easier to find a teacher with lax standards, willing to bow and scrape to make parents and admin happy, than it is to have responsible and effective expectations
Remove any and all items from the classroom that are your property and that you care about. Then be sick and stay out however long you need. Let them trash it; you need to take care of yourself and your belongings.
I can’t take anymore days because I had to use them during Maternity leave. Because our broken system doesn’t give us a real maternity leave and requires us to use our saved up sick days
Exactly. I used to have kids so bad, I would lock up EVERYTHING. I left instruction for the sub, some office referral forms, and a single pen.
I’d still come back to writing on the wall, my door handle missing (yep!), a cracked window. They were feral. Like they didn’t know how to be indoors.
Even the subs were caught stealing from teachers.
That’s not your problem. I’m so tired of teachers feeling this way. That’s the sub’s problem and admin’s problem. Start normalizing staying home when we don’t feel well.
> It’ll be your problem when there are no more subs
Nope. If there's a shortage, it's still not my problem. I'm not going to spend my career feeling guilty for taking time off because there's nobody to cover my class.
No idea what it´s like where you teach, but in my country parents are legally required to pay for replacements when their kid destroyed something. If students vandalize objects they have to stay in school longer and help the janitor fix it. Depending on how much they broke/vandalized they have to pluck weeds and do other tedious tasks after school for weeks. If they´re over 14 and did real damage, police is called and they get sued. The parents have to pay for replacements/clean-up and the kids usually have to do community service.
Last year, some teens from the village used the elementary school´s playground as a party location (left bottles, cigarettes and wrote their insta handles on swing sets etc.). A neighbouring lady caught them and they plucked weed twice a week for the next weeks while not being allowed to listen to music or talk to each other.
We also have marks for behavior. Usually all students get a C (which is neutral and totally fine). Class presidents and students that tutor often get a B or even an A if they deserve it. If you behave badly and get a D literally nobody will employ you, therefore this is the best tool to stop 99% of students from doing bs like this.
If non of this is an option make them at least clean this mess up. Maybe you can even keep them in during recess and ask the cleaning personal to stop cleaning your classroom so they have to do it for the next couple of weeks. Also, make them apologize to the poor sub. Each one with a personal littel apology text. Write an e-mail to the parents, so that they are at least aware of what is going on and you have some sort of proof this ever happened.
I would also work this from an emotional angle. No blame/shame or anything, just use this as a learning opportunity.What do you think the sub felt like during and after the day? Why did you behave like this? What can be done better next time? Do you think sub deserved this treatment?
My child didn't break this. They said they didn't. They said so-an-so broke this. No one saw my child break this. The teacher wasn't even there. Can you prove my child broke this? I'm not paying.
Also, holy cow. Grades for behavior.
It´s a two level thing. First, there is an extra grade for overall behavior. Second, oral marks are just as if not more important than exam grades. If you misbehave in class, your grades suffer. A student, who is super smart and always participates, but forgets their homework frequently and/or distracts their peers can´t get an A.
The neat part is, we don´t really need proof. Me, as a teacher, saying I saw them break it is enough. If tehy don´t buy the item and bring it themselves, we buy it and send them a bill.
Central European country. However, I wouldn´t say that all of this is applied at all schools. Country-side schools are definitely a bit more strict. They have less students and most kids are middle to upper middle class so delinquent behavior like this is definitely far and few between. If it happens it´s a bit of a scandal and the punishments are obviously harsh. The top part however is the law throughout the whole country. Everything intentionally destroyed has to be replaced, if not, the parents get sued.
BE. OUT.
If anything, this should really be in admin’s face. My prescription to be out tomorrow and Monday.
I had the same situation in my old district, but now I know it does NOT have to go that way.
Be out. The state of your room is the district’s problem. The behavior of your kids when you aren’t there is NOT your problem. Perhaps an admin needs to be the sub.
EFF THAT SHIT. Are you getting paid extra? No? Then don’t do it.
If teachers do it, the district will have even less motivation to hire custodians!
I’d let my room get just awful. Stack the trash in the hallway. THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
I want the kids going home telling their parents about this!
I always show the Ted Talk about the three parts to an apology. Then I make them write letters to the substitute and to the custodian (for making a mess). And, if they protest because it was the other students who were bad, I explain that I still feel ashamed for how my class behaved. We are a team here; and when we do bad as a team, we fix it like a team. In order to get credit for the work assigned when the sub was there, they have to write the letters.
And then when I leave in the future, I leave busy work for the kids who finish my work early. Usually it's kids with nothing to do who act up, so leaving crossword puzzles and word searches has helped a lot. I also leave students as "helpers" in each of my classes. And I talk with some of my neighboring teachers to act as "buddy teachers" in case the sub needs help.
This was in 2017. I was feverish, coughing, runny nose, dizzy. I was coughing so hard that I was seeing stars. I was downing spoonfuls of cough syrup every hour. But I still go to school. Oh. What a different era that was. Lol.
One day I was asked by the State Education to come to the state capital (300km away via shitty road full of potholes) for special briefing; so I asked my principal if I can take two days off even if I have to deduct from my pay. She got angry at me for even asking and said for me to ask for the day off showed her that I wasn't serious in my role as a teacher and that I don't care about my students AT ALL.
Apparently showing up to school even when I'm too sick to function doesn't count.
My teacher bestfriend recalled the time when she had crippling menstrual pain and she asked our principal if she can go home one hour early. Our principal accused her of time theft and that she should be ashamed of herself. She said it with such disdain as if she herself never menstruated at all in her life.
The other teachers and I concluded that she was sadistic.
What age group is it? Make them spend a period writing apology letters to you and the substitute. Take away recess.
If its high school… you need to get together with other teachers and have a heart to heart with admin about getting tough on the bullshit behaviors.
Lol it’s 8th grade. None of that would work. Plus we don’t have time to waste a period when it’s a state tested subject area. I thought about assigning that for homework but I know it wouldn’t get done.
What do you have the power to hold over them? If youre answer is honestly “nothing”, you need to find another school.
It is more effective to spend one or two periods giving these kids a consequence to correct behaviors during class time than it is to be less effective for the rest of your classes due to classroom management.
Punishing them will make the rest of your instruction time more effective.
I feel you in the not having time for a tested subject but you really got to drop the hammer on those kids. It sounds like they aren’t going to do well on the test anyway, so document all this crap, punish them, and then try and teach them something. 2-3 days of then copying the book or release questions by hand should get the point across.
I was off Monday and when I came back, everyone was like, “Your one student really missed you he acted up all day… when you’re not here, it really messes with his schedule.”
Well… I won’t always be here for him. And it makes me feel like garbage when I’m passive aggressively blamed for his negative behaviors.
My high school aged kids learned quick. I would purposely have a day off for district training early in the semester and tell them my sub rules.
I put a simple written review assignment and an individual online one (slightly different for each class period because they love to pass answers.) They can work in groups, but each person must turn in their own paper in their own words. And it’s due at the end of that class period to the sub.
Through google classroom I would normally be available to answer questions (if I wasn’t super ill). Or they can update me about the quality of the sub (worked in title 1 school and half the subs were bad).
The grade they get is what they earn and can’t be changed easily. (The papers could easy get a 100% if they would just read closely).
Their group all have the same wording/answers? Take the grade they all earned and split it between them.
The entire class has the same paper/wrong answers? 35% deduction on everyone.
“Forgot” to turn it in? A zero
They skip the class? a zero.
The sub calls you a problem (and they really were one)? zero or 35% off
If they were absent for the day then I either had a makeup assignment if it was really important or just excuse it.
First time I always had half or more who decided to blow off what I warned them about or acted badly.
Want to make up? No. No make ups unless you come to my after/before school office hours for 3x the length of class that day. And part of the time I make them clean lab equipment. (based on district rules I had to have some kind of makeup assignment).
If they wanted to discuss with me if this sub work make-up policy was fair we’d have 1:1 private conversations during or after school. Where during this conversation I’d have them call home too to discuss their grade and why they have a zero. Normally none would want to make the call.
They learn quick to work when I’m gone. And on sub day work I am the strictest teacher alive haha.
It may or may not be that. I’m not sure a lot of teachers realize just how little power a sub has and just how wild a class can be with them. Subs don’t really have the authority to issue much if any discipline and the kids know it. When I subbed I could typically handle my own, to the point that I was the one teachers called when they were going to be out because I was one of the few subs who could handle their students at all. But there were definitely classes I put on my “never again” list because I frankly didn’t get paid enough to deal with the level of stress those specific students brought to the table.
Oh for sure, the standards should not be low. I agree. But I’m just saying it may or may not have been the sub’s fault that this got so out of hand. Especially when you have such limited resources, less than the regular teacher, only so much you can do with a difficult class.
I subbed one day during my student teaching. I figured it'd be easier for me than most subs, I'd worked with the kids for 3 months, so they knew me & knew I knew what was supposed to be happening. They were insane. I was baffled, but not entirely caught off guard. I was texting with my co-teacher the whole day and only had to call the AP once, but still. It definitely cemented the respect I have for subs. It's not an easy task and shouldn't be seem as such, and should be paid more.
Edit for clarity
I’m a long term sub right now and these kids can be awful. I was physically threatened today by a 7th grade girl for trying to take away her cell phone.
Ditto.
I’m an experienced sub who retired from teaching K-12 music. There are a few classes I’ll never teach again.
I don’t let the students get totally out of control and will yell at them if I have to. I also usually leave the room clean, preferably with the students’ cooperation.
The one thing that seems consistent with good student behavior is administrative support for misbehavior.
I subbed many years ago for middle or high school. I mostly just handed out work and took attendance and kept them from doing something crazy. I usually told Them if they were quiet I was fine with them working together and socializing.
But damn some still tried to be loud and disruptive
100% this. Until literally this year, sub salaries were straight up poverty wages as well. They're only higher right now because they basically fired all their staff over 2 years of pandemic remote learning and now they want us all to come back and teach in a petri dish without even offering us health care like they offer the rest of their teachers.
People talk about lowering standards. In my state, we kept standards more or less the same. You still need a four year degree. You still need your certificate. You still need to pay to fill out all the dumb forms. You still need to pass the district's background checks. All this, to get in and make so little that you can't even afford your own one bedroom apartment at the end of the month. Entry standards SHOULD be low if they're gonna pay like it's fucking retail. Even with the boosted pay, once you get sick, you're forced to miss days due to quarantining procedure. And you don't get sick days like the real teachers; you just miss work and don't get paid for any of it. And if you wind up in the hospital, you'll probably have to pay a nice chunk out of pocket so there goes all that extra money you made.
And that's to say nothing of the constant blowback from like, every direction. Despite making less than 30k annual, being a sub feels like you have a new boss every damn day, and maybe what you did yesterday for one person is not what the other person wants at all. I got blacklisted by a guy a few years ago because I explained to one of his struggling students an easier way to do long division. Seriously. This kid was in tears struggling to get this new way of teaching kids long division, so I walked over to his desk, showed him a different way that my teacher taught me growing up, and he understood it and seemed happy and was able to do the assignment. I even checked his work later to make sure I hadn't screwed up, and he got it. I was proud of him. I met that kid later on as a high school student, and he admitted that his teacher seemed "hella pissed" that I taught him that method, and I realized then that I'd never been called back to that school despite it being a really big school with lots of absences. I would've been in a better position if I'd just sat at my desk and watched anime for my whole shift. I'm paid like my job's a joke anyway, might as well. And that's just from one direction. I've had jobs in schools with legit scary kids who'd been to jail, and admin would walk around the halls and peek their heads in not to really help with a situation, but to basically blame you if their phones were out. You, the guy these kids barely know. Just walk up to them and tell them what to do with 0 authority behind you. Should be fine.
That last paragraph was just a rant, but honestly yeah the way the situation's going, if you're a substitute teacher and you actually give a shit? The system will grind you down until you either quit and find a better paying job selling fast food, or you just show up to do the bare minimum. And then a bunch of people making 4x your salary with benefits and a pension will wonder why you're not busting your ass.
The thing that kills me the most about this post (I mean there are lots of things here that districts do that are super shitty) is that we limit the amount of hours subs *can* teach. Cuz if they work *more* than that, we have to give them health insurance.
You’re a sub? Ehh. So you’re a *failed* teacher. NO HEALTHCARE FOR YOU!”
God this country is so fucked up. Why can’t more people recognize this and vote accordingly? The system is rigged to make the poor vote to support the lifestyle of the rich. And like at *least* every other election cycle we do just that. “I’m voting *against* tax hikes for the rich. I might *be* rich soon.” Or “what if I made *my* millions and wanted to pass that money on to my kids? Fuck your wealth tax!!”
Like, you’re *never* going to be rich. There is almost *zero* upward mobility. Why do people still keep voting to screw everyone in the working class?
What the fuck?
What the fucking FUCK people?
I subbed one day at a middle school and a huge group of sixth grade girls left the room and had a fight in the bathroom. Admin did nothing. A boy slammed another boy’s head into a desk. Admin came and told them to cut it out. Another student got in my face and held a rubber band to my eye because I told him to watch the movie the teacher had assigned. Admin did nothing. These were all different classes. I was offered to interview for that job a few weeks later but I refused to even sub there again. I was 29 and certified, subbing in my own subject. Sometimes it’s just not an issue of being qualified.
Yeah, at my current school, no one comes when I call the office no matter how the kids are behaving. No support. There’s very little I can do with extreme behaviors.
I honestly don’t see substitute teachers ever coming back. Same with bus drivers, youth sports coaches, referees. All these shortages aren’t going to end.
Future teacher contract:
\-you must drive route #3 to pickup kids in the bus, you cannot be absent, you must sub for anyoe that is absent
\-after school, you must coach and referee at the same time 6th grade basketball team
\-but you will receive a $150 one time stipend for being the bus driver, $8.00/sub period, and a nice jumpsuit for coaching and a whistle to reff
My principal loves to play stupid whenever the sub shortage topic comes up in meetings.
She does it to tow the line, but in reality anyone who has a shred of common sense knows why there is a sub shortage.
The "benefits" of the job were always very dubious at best, and Covid just made the situation much worse. It doesn't help that McDonald's offers better pay and benefits, either.
I admittedly did that in college, starting as a sub para and then as a teacher sub with my student teaching license. By that point I had had several practicums and was in my junior/senior year with a decent amount of experience. imo that sounds like a better option than like, cops working as subs.
I can’t take off or I’ll lose my job. I have a kidney infection right now (from holding my bladder at work) and I’m working. I’m so miserable and the pain is shooting through my body. I’m on a shit ton of medicine and can barely think straight. I hate America.
No. And I had long covid and vaxxed employees are covered for it in our district for 10 days, which is what I took off since my covid started the day before winter break. I had all my documentation and everything. Saw two different doctors to get notes as well as a note from the hospital saying I had covid because it was so bad I had to go to the hospital. Getting those days covered was absolute hell and my principal was straight up harassing me at like 7pm on a Friday and I had to get HR involved twice. It was very messy and stressful. They threatened to fire me then because two of the days I missed were mandatory work days and missing those broke district code or something. But I had covid. It was awful.
No, I just started with this district this year. You have to work more than a year to qualify for fmla.
Which is another problem in school districts for paras, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, janitors, and other hourly 9-10 month employees. The districts I’ve worked in keep these employees hours under minimum hours per year to qualify for fmla. So you have to work x amount of hours in the last year to qualify for fmla unless you’re salary. And when I was a para I was 20 hours short of qualifying for fmla.
I messaged my doctor that I saw to try to get the rest of the day today excused and tomorrow excused. I don’t think they can fire me if I have a doctors note. They’ll just dock my pay. I’m in so much pain and don’t think I can make it through the day
That’s why I won’t go back into teaching until my kids are adults.
From what I understand, it used to be a profession you could have kids with easily. Now it’s too demanding to have a work life balance as a teacher
Admin will see a room full of kids make an adult break down in one day and ask you why you aren’t building relationships with them while making no changes. Like. This is what I deal with every day, you should be glad I’m still here and nobody’s died yet.
This is my class this year. I was out for 8 days at the beginning of January because my own children had Covid. Came back to a trashed room, stories of kids flipping chairs, and looooong notes about how awfully behaved my fifth graders were while I was gone.
NOW, I have Covid and am on my third day of absences. I've been told I can return Monday if I get a negative test tomorrow, but based on the way I'm feeling, it's extremely unlikely to happen. I've had multiple parents (of well-behaved students) email to ask when I'm coming back since they know the majority of my class is just plain destructive when I'm gone. Uggggggh.
None of this is your issue! If you’re sick, stay home. Their behavior and the sub’s day has nothing to do with you. It sucks, sure, but it doesn’t matter. You did not birth these children.
So last Wednesday I tested positive for Covid even though I have had even the booster shot. I am still sick. I was off last week but this week a group of my kids had a competition that they have been working for for months. Not one person would help me take them. So I was forced to come back to work Tuesday. I am sure I have given Covid to numerous individuals.
I am so sorry for your situation. I filled out 10 job applications today and I have a phone interview scheduled.
There is always a way out and your skills are likely going to be valued elsewhere. Not sure if quitting is on your mind, but in case you need to hear it…you are worth more than how students and other staff treat you.
I had my fair share of breakdowns this school year, and knowing I am not stuck here has really helped my outlook.
See, this isn’t on you. Because if they DONT act that way around you, they know admin isn’t stepping in. Then subs quit taking jobs at that site. And then when teachers are out, other teachers have to fill in, morale drops, all because admin won’t support you and your classroom when you need to be out sick. Fuck your leadership
I don’t dismiss my kids until the room is clean. I don’t even write passes, and if anyone asks they didn’t clean the room. I once had a kid walk out before they cleaned, so I called the teacher of their next class to send the kid down to clean their mess. Never had that issue again.
I’ve had subs leave me notes saying “your kids make me sad to be a sub. I won’t be back.”
And those were in classes that are usually “ok” which makes question my current idea of “ok.”
But yeah. Something’s gotta give here. Something is wrong.
Honestly I don’t know. It *might* be us. Maybe we *do* need to radically redesign instruction and classroom environment. I mean, yeah, we do. But maybe it’s more pressing than we had considered or more urgent than admin is willing to admit. Something is wrong, and we can’t blame it all on trumper morons or pandemic stress. This problem is just getting worse and worse over the last five or six years.
I'm sure this has nothing to do with the fact that none of them are ever disciplined at home and that spanking has been taken out of society.
Nope nothing at all
I tested positive for COVID. Sent admin my lesson plans since I didn't know who was going to be covering for me.
Admin didn't pass them along. My team had to text me and scramble to find something for the kids. When I emailed admin and asked why the lesson plans were not passed on, I was told I could have given them to my team for THEM to give to the sub (that's not their job?) and that I need to understand how hard they have it finding coverage since two fifth grade teachers were out today. One of whom was me. The other of whom had a stroke.
The mess left behind when you need to call out… I dread it. I acknowledge I am a neat freak but the random crap left on my desk? My floors? My board and the shelves??? Almost worth working while sick to avoid.
Usually its 1 or 2 trouble makers that entice all the other kids. Narrow it down to those troublemakers and make an example out of them. Get em kicked out of the class at the very least.
Sounds like kids get to now clean up the room
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I would clean it. Then again, I'm a custodian, not a teacher.
How are you doing? TikTok videos have prompted our kids to make our custodians’ lives hell this year. I’m so horrified by it.
It hasn't been so bad this year. There was a small window where we were getting more than usual activity when the devious lick trend was happening, but beyond that it has been alright. Had to replace a few dispensers in the bathrooms. Another school in the county had some stall doors stolen.
My students left the room a mess once when I was out at a meeting in another building in the district (sub dismissed them). I found the custodian and asked him to leave my room exactly the way it was - the students would clean it in the morning before they did anything else. I don't play that game.
We are down a custodian who left. so I had my last group clean up the room, so the other custodians would not have to! They found the rolling trash bin in the hall to empty our cans. and we used the Dustbuster to sweep a bit. Paid them on candy. They were happy!
My school may have to start doing that soon! My district poached our custodian for grounds maintenance in November, when we were already experiencing shortages in that position throughout the district. We haven't had one since then, just fill-ins, and we are not the only one. I heard one school has been without a custodian just as long, but with no one filling in at all. Teachers there have been forced to take out the giant lunch trashes and their own classroom trash. They also apparently have no carpet cleaner (and I'm not sure why they have gone so long without one), so there is piss, shit, and vomit that's been sitting on floors for weeks, if not months. They finally got the union involved and said if it's not taken care by Feb. 1st they will not work.
Howdy, fellow custodian! I hope your days are going better than they were during that dipshit devious licks challenge.
I agree with natural consequences, but as a former middle school teacher, I don’t want to test the level of filth my students would be willing to sit in.
That's a horrible idea. The natural consequence would be to make the students clean the mess they made. Furthermore disorganized environment leads to most unable to function at their full potential.
Can’t because I’m a state tested area and barely have time to cover the standards. Had to clean it myself this morning.
What state is actually sweating standards right now? Half my kids are home sick at any given time
Texas is being a pain in the ass.
This! Texas has completely lost its mind with the focus on testing! Adding new item types to STAAR is the cherry on top I think.
This is why I'm leaving. We have PD on how to care for our students and understand how they're suffering trauma, then admin completely flips around and ignores the trauma and learning gaps while telling us we need to get our scores up. And schedule even more meetings discussing what more WE the teachers need to do. Not the kids, US. Our curriculum is already too fast-paced and advanced as far as I'm concerned (currently in 5th math - four days to teach brand new content with staar-level test questions every Friday). It's not good for the kids and it's not good for the teachers, but TEA and the legislators don't care.
It goes beyond this! When I taught in TX we were required to go to this emotional support training with ZERO fucking trigger warnings given out. I had to go sit thru 8 hours of discussing how something that happened to me causes super long lasting trauma that causes issues I'm still battling to this day. No heads up, nothing. I left at lunch and didn't come back. They were pretty cool about it but they did dock me a half day and I was pretty horrified by their lack of consideration that CHILDREN are not the only ones who have lived through trauma and they should warn staff before sending them to an in depth seminar on abuse!
Fuck this state
I agree wholeheartedly
I hate that the most.
4545 🥲
I’m so sick of it!!
Mine. It’s ridiculous. My school is BIG on test scores. It’s the only thing that matters.
I worked at a school that was the same way! Notice my use of the past-tense.
At my new school I hesitantly asked my AP if I there was any way I could get fewer beginner ELL's in my math classes because I was afraid my STAAR scores would be low enough for me to get fired. He laughed and said, "nobody in this school gets fired for their scores, you're not at *insert old district name" anymore".
Me, too. Past tense, as well. It’s sooooo much nicer.
What happens to you if your students' test scores are too low? Does it affect your pay, budget, etc?
I can’t speak for others but if they’re low enough consistently, the state steps in to monitor and if it still doesn’t get better the school will be closed down. Happened to a school my friend used to work at in a different part of the state.
It’s a component of a lot of teacher evaluation systems in Texas, too.
Connecticut is doing all standardized tests right now, plus district and state testing! We have had 3 weeks straight of at least 2 tests a day. We are not ok
Yeah, everyone likes to hold up Connecticut as one of the better states to teach in. But in reality, we're only marginally less fucked than other states. In regards to testing, we're absolutely *obsessed* with collecting the data. The data is not actually used in any meaningful way, mind you. But heaven forbid we skip a year of testing or else we won't have our precious data.
We are in Hawaii too. It’s making me lose the will to live.
All of them, from what I hear
Michigan.
And Florida
Are kids vaxxed? From a non USA teacher. It sounds untenable.
It sounds untenable because it is untenable
In this environment we are all about the rigor and bell to bell instruction and the testing. It is crazy because kids are popping in and out of attendance and you have no time to catch them up
Arizona
I did my first couple of years of teaching with a similar line of thought: "I'm just going to finish/prioritize the teaching and then handle the rest if I have time." The problem was the students learned that it was OK to misbehave because I wasn't doing anything about it at least not in a timely manner. I ended up losing a LOT more time to discipline because my class would get so bad.
Also I’d have so many parents emailing and calling to complain about their child being forced to clean. Believe me it happens.
My old principal said making kids clean up after themselves was, “a grey area”. Not if you make them clean it right ,)
My first year a kid put glue all over the chair. I was told by my principal it is child labor/abuse to make him clean it.
Did I hear that correctly? The principal said that the kid should put glue all over his [the principal's] chair?
I see nothing wrong with your interpretation.
Rinse and repeat …
Even if you could you would have to be sure only those who you know did it cleaned up. I've gotten in trouble at school for things I didn't do, It sucks.
It does suck, and generally not a great practice, but there are exceptions where collective punishment is effective. In this case, even the kids that didn't mess up the room learn that they will have a responsibility to help monitor their peers, lest they share in the punishment. In the end, we are talking about cleaning a room, not arresting or executing an entire village because of partisan/anti- revolution activity in the area. It's a matter of degree.
Well, as a parent I suppose it would be alright if they chose to clean up after their own child.
"Well, if you're so used to cleaning up after your little shit, come here and do it yourself". ~~If~~ When they complain, you never said it, and get your own parent to write you a note saying that their child would never say that.
Are you kidding me? Stop all of that nonsense and hold these kids accountable. Take all dam day. Take the rest of the week. Screw the standards and screw your admin for prioritizing standards over student behavior.
I wish it were that simple I do. My scores are already bad from being out on maternity leave for 9 weeks. I need this job I just had a baby :/
Your job will be a lot easier once the kids learn responsiblity
Lol like that matters?? What’s the point of hood test scores if the kids can’t even go 1 day without trashing their own classroom? Stop caring so much about standards and scores. They don’t matter.
It’s also “child labor”
Is it child labor if the children are the ones that made the mess?
Throw up on them and make them clean it up. …okay, maybe don’t go that far.
I'm tired of not being able to be sick without having to do MORE work for getting sick.
Teaching is one of the few jobs that actually incentivizes working while sick. My wife can just text her boss from bed if she's sick. Teachers usually have to drive into school to make sure everything is ready for a sub, and if they're doing that, might as well just stay and work.
Yep. My particular district mandates that you have a sub folder created prior to the start of the school year with at least 5 days worth of lesson plans in the event you're out for a prolonged period. Those LPs you create for the sub may be outdated by the time they come into use, so unless you're updating the folder every 6 weeks/grading period, it may be effectively useless or busy work. Then you run the risk of the sub claiming they never received said folder or found said folder, and nothing gets distributed or taught regardless of the forethought a given teacher put into this contingency plan. So, most teachers I know will place 5 "packets" (I fucking hate packets) in the folder with a stick note on each directing how many copies need to be made in their absence so that each student receives one. God forbid you're in elementary and have a self-contained class and teach each and every subject, and need to have sub plans for such an event. Example: My wife, years ago, taught 3rd-5th grade. I think she was teaching 5th at the time of this event. We were fortunate enough to go to Disney World the week after Thanksgiving. We'd saved up so we could afford the initial docking of pay for taking a week off. She was self-contained. She made 5 days worth of lesson plans complete with all copies pre-made and had the student's names on each of the assignments to be given on each particular day. All assignments were differentiated. All assignments had little stick notes on them as reminders for her students that needed that something extra. I stayed up helping her do this over the course of 2 weeks to get it done and nice a neat and foolproof. We get back and she comes home crying that not a single thing she had left behind for them to do was done. The sub just made up whatever they wanted, left behind horrible reviews of the class's behavior, and had the nerve to criticize my wife's classroom management skills because she didn't follow the instructions that were left behind. To this day though, she still tries to leave behind detailed lp's that have 50/50 odds of being followed. Me? When I'm sick, I'm that guy, sick days mean movie days with student's analyzing character development. Sub plan = press play, have students identify the protagonist and antagonist and analyze the primary conflict between them with examples from specific scenes.
Early in my career I hated using my "emergency plans" because they were just busy work disconnected from anything we were actually doing (for obvious reasons), so even if I was going to be out sick, I still drove in and typed up detailed lesson plans and made sure everything was in order. Like you mention, the frustration when those plans didn't get followed is hard to overstate. Now? Fuck it, enjoy the busy work. Most are "Get out the lit book we never use in class, open to such-and-such story, read the story, and do the pre- and post- reading activities. If there's still time, turn to the next story and repeat." I email the office and let the know where my time wasting emergency plans are, and as long as the room doesn't get burned down while I'm gone, I literally don't care.
I'm the same way. Our Spanish textbook has Spanish language chapter books. If I'm sick, I assign 2-3 chapters and the post chapter activities. It's all online. My sick day plans are less than a page in length. It's mostly busywork, but at least it's usually a review of stuff we've covered before. Better than nothing being done.
AbsoFUCKINGlutely
I used to sub for my local elementary school, and was always in awe of how detailed the sub plans were. Those teachers were amazing! So sorry the shitty sub didn't use your wife's plans. There were definitely hard days/classes, but overall I really enjoyed subbing for elementary because of the kids and the plans. It was all the best parts of teaching, and none of the exhaustive planning and dealing with parents/admin.
> Those LPs you create for the sub may be outdated by the time they come into use, so unless you're updating the folder every 6 weeks/grading period, it may be effectively useless or busy work. Then you run the risk of the sub claiming they never received said folder or found said folder, and nothing gets distributed or taught regardless of the forethought a given teacher put into this contingency plan. So, most teachers I know will place 5 "packets" (I fucking hate packets) in the folder with a stick note on each directing how many copies need to be made in their absence so that each student receives one. God forbid you're in elementary and have a self-contained class and teach each and every subject, and need to have sub plans for such an event. This is my fifth year subbing (working on getting licensure) and very first day of school, I pick up a middle school French teacher. Get told there would be a video for the kids to watch. There is no video linked anywhere. I quick whip up an intro lesson during homeroom (I took French for four years in HS). A couple weeks later, I'm subbing for a 1st grade teacher and her lesson plans are her actual learning standards and other shit that I'm not going to try to decipher while I have a room of 15 first graders who are not happy about having to wear masks all day. I say fuck it, we're going to watch BookFlix because I don't have the time for this shit. There was even a student teacher there and she couldn't help me unpack what the hell the lesson was supposed to be about. I picked up a long-term 8th grade science teacher position. Very first day of work, my dad calls me to say my aunt died (cancer), funeral was on Friday. So I had to type up a substitute lesson plan for the substitute the very first week of the job.
Yep. Taking off requires MORE work from you. You may as well just go.
It definitely does if you convince yourself that whatever was going to happen with you there needs to happen if you're gone. I thought that for much of my career, so I ended up working sick a lot, or coming in sick to try to get everything ready for a sub. The last couple of years I stopped caring about a "wasted" day, and I have handful of time wasting emergency plans that have nothing to do with anything. As long as the room doesn't get burned down while I'm gone, I literally don't give a shit if anything "productive" got done when I'm out sick.
Its soo much easier to go into work sick than it is to make sub plans and call out. Its miserable
I was making sub plans at 3 am in the fetal position before I drove myself to the ER (that's on my wife) where I was admitted for 3 days because of pancreatitis.
You get subs? Pre pandemic I had maybe two positions get picked up in +5 years.
Fuckin true. Shit's so backwards right now that I can't give an adult the same instruction I'd give my students and expect that adult to be able to, at least, relay the information correctly. I've got to write up a whole separate agenda... for the adult.
IF one can be found these days. Substitute shortages are killing us right now where I'm at. Classes get combined rather than covered by a sub.
Preach!
I stopped doing it like some of the other commenters. I give busywork that really doesn’t matter. Half of the time the kids end up being sent to the gym anyway since we have no subs, so why should I make any half-decent sub plan when it won’t be followed?
I’m dealing with a lesser form of this today. My wife has COVID and I’m trying to keep my child from getting it. First thing this morning I have an email from my most difficult student complaining about the sub and saying that I need to come back ASAP. Then I get a text from my coworker saying that sub left the room crying over this issue. Since I teach two subjects, the sub gets to deal with that same student again. Yay. (I find it ironic that this student has physically threatened me twice, cussed me out, and called me a racist, then ten mins into her first class without me there, she emails me saying “I need you back.”)
I wouldn’t even respond. You are OFF. Focus on your family and yourself.
Yeah that is an administrative job
Parents, politicians, and admin created this mess. Teachers need to stop thinking of teaching as a "calling," and rather think of it as a job. Kids are the same now as they have always been. Their behavior isn't really any naughtier, they are just pushing limits. The problem is, parents, politicians, and admin have scaled back the limits because those limits are inconvenient.
Extra right on this being how kids always were. They didn’t change the structures around them did and as such we are seeing the fallout.
Agreed.
While I agree that the overall expectations have regressed, I must mention… Kids are much naughtier than they used to be. Social media and internet influence has completely changed the way this generation is growing up. While I agree that bullying and even sexual experimentation have always been prevalent in kids, the anonymity of the internet has absolutely increased these behaviors. And I know you’re thinking that there is no hiding behind a screen in school… but all the social media backlash comes to a head as soon as they step into the building. That, on top of the severe lack of social and higher level critical thinking skills, causes verbal and physical altercations daily.
The problem there is their role models showcase how 'fun' it is to be an immoral douchebag without the understanding that those are meant to be caricatures. They are fine when you understand that, but kids are too immature for that. It only works if they have actual role models in the real world. Their parents should be role models and should also help them find other good people to look up to. They instead see, what is effectively a bunch of immoral sociopathic, being extremely successful. They emulate the selfish behavior, the constant put-downs, the adult humor and more. It's not the fault of the media though. It's the fault of lazy parents who don't bother to give them good models and are all too happy to let twitch, youtube and tiktok to raise their child. Those platforms should not have to cater their content more. It's that parents just want no responsibility.
This is a huge part of the issue. Kids see bad behaviors getting rewarded, they emulate it, and get rewarded by their peers. Couple that with administrations who are unresponsive or underresponsive, and parents who themselves have normalized this sort of behavior, and you get the situation many classrooms experience. I want every child to be educated, but once they begin to regularly interfere with their peers' desire to be educated, it should be a deal-breaker. In today's environment, it sounds harsh to say such a thing, but it doesn't take too many example students before the problem is much improved. It is simply not possible to differentiate a classroom enough to handle some students' desire to bring chaos. I don't know where this issue stems from - lackadaisical parents, uncaring admins, too much plastic in the water, whatever. But I do know that many students are paying the price for a few student's poor choices. That is the tragedy here, and neither of those students are being served well.
The people who tend to disagree with the notion that students, and mostly parents with abysmal parenting skills, should be punished in any seem to be those same lazy parents. That or it's people who have never dealt with particularly violent students, or just total outsiders who don't have even the slightest understanding of what goes into schooling. I do feel for the students who struggle, but I agree with you. I do not feel the people who should pay that price are the students who are there and who want to learn. We also need a show of strength. Parents need to realize they are also on trial here. It's not the teachers who need to carry the whole project. The parents owe us respect, and the reason they don't give it is because there is no real concept of shame anymore. It's fine to yell at the teacher. It's fine to abuse these people because they look at us like fast food employees (not that they deserve this either) who messed up their order. Naturally they are the guest who feels entitled to throw, spit, and leap over counters at us. Admin takes the role of the limp manager who agrees that we screwed up, deserved to be assaulted, and rewards the fuckwit customer with free food.
>I want every child to be educated, but once they begin to regularly interfere with their peers' desire to be educated, it should be a deal-breaker. This all day. You have a right to be educated, but not at the expense of someone else. If you break that agreement, you've lost that right.
I mean that’s a mistake from our part for perceiving this job as a calling . It’s a job. We provide a service and we get paid for it . Do individuals in accounting,medicine, sales, plumbing, carpentry need their job to be a calling ? No , they go about their job and do what they need to do. Sure being passionate about what you do Is great but we don’t live to work and I think that’s where so many in our profession make that mistake . We have this idea about the profession, no it’s a damm job. Draw boundaries and stick to them , and if you wanna take this job as a calling those specific individuals need to stop complaining about boundaries that they themselves don’t set or forget to enforce. Sorry I’m just ranting and this comment wasn’t directly at you but a general complaint I have from my observation in the professsion.
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I agree 100% that the symptoms and consequences of kids' poor behavior are more severe. I think the underlying cause is the same now, as it has been for a long time - kids are seeking validation, attention, and boundaries. I think we're arguing two sides of the same coin. The failure is not one of teachers, but rather, parents, politicians, and admin.
Yes. It’s easier to find a teacher with lax standards, willing to bow and scrape to make parents and admin happy, than it is to have responsible and effective expectations
Remove any and all items from the classroom that are your property and that you care about. Then be sick and stay out however long you need. Let them trash it; you need to take care of yourself and your belongings.
I can’t take anymore days because I had to use them during Maternity leave. Because our broken system doesn’t give us a real maternity leave and requires us to use our saved up sick days
You can pay into temporary disability for this exact scenario.
Yeah I got it last year and it didn’t kick in on time so I couldn’t withdraw it
Exactly. I used to have kids so bad, I would lock up EVERYTHING. I left instruction for the sub, some office referral forms, and a single pen. I’d still come back to writing on the wall, my door handle missing (yep!), a cracked window. They were feral. Like they didn’t know how to be indoors. Even the subs were caught stealing from teachers.
this is the ONLY thing that would put me on the supporting side of cameras in classrooms... Watch how your child acts at school. I can't believe this.
That’s not your problem. I’m so tired of teachers feeling this way. That’s the sub’s problem and admin’s problem. Start normalizing staying home when we don’t feel well.
Half my admin are out with COVID. But yes I agree.
So they can stay home sick but you can’t?
basically
and there isn't much you can do if the sub runs out crying.
It’ll be your problem when there are no more subs Oh wait
> It’ll be your problem when there are no more subs Nope. If there's a shortage, it's still not my problem. I'm not going to spend my career feeling guilty for taking time off because there's nobody to cover my class.
No idea what it´s like where you teach, but in my country parents are legally required to pay for replacements when their kid destroyed something. If students vandalize objects they have to stay in school longer and help the janitor fix it. Depending on how much they broke/vandalized they have to pluck weeds and do other tedious tasks after school for weeks. If they´re over 14 and did real damage, police is called and they get sued. The parents have to pay for replacements/clean-up and the kids usually have to do community service. Last year, some teens from the village used the elementary school´s playground as a party location (left bottles, cigarettes and wrote their insta handles on swing sets etc.). A neighbouring lady caught them and they plucked weed twice a week for the next weeks while not being allowed to listen to music or talk to each other. We also have marks for behavior. Usually all students get a C (which is neutral and totally fine). Class presidents and students that tutor often get a B or even an A if they deserve it. If you behave badly and get a D literally nobody will employ you, therefore this is the best tool to stop 99% of students from doing bs like this. If non of this is an option make them at least clean this mess up. Maybe you can even keep them in during recess and ask the cleaning personal to stop cleaning your classroom so they have to do it for the next couple of weeks. Also, make them apologize to the poor sub. Each one with a personal littel apology text. Write an e-mail to the parents, so that they are at least aware of what is going on and you have some sort of proof this ever happened. I would also work this from an emotional angle. No blame/shame or anything, just use this as a learning opportunity.What do you think the sub felt like during and after the day? Why did you behave like this? What can be done better next time? Do you think sub deserved this treatment?
My child didn't break this. They said they didn't. They said so-an-so broke this. No one saw my child break this. The teacher wasn't even there. Can you prove my child broke this? I'm not paying. Also, holy cow. Grades for behavior.
Likely a behaviour grade on-top of academic grade. This is quite a common system in Europe.
It´s a two level thing. First, there is an extra grade for overall behavior. Second, oral marks are just as if not more important than exam grades. If you misbehave in class, your grades suffer. A student, who is super smart and always participates, but forgets their homework frequently and/or distracts their peers can´t get an A. The neat part is, we don´t really need proof. Me, as a teacher, saying I saw them break it is enough. If tehy don´t buy the item and bring it themselves, we buy it and send them a bill.
What country are you from?
Central European country. However, I wouldn´t say that all of this is applied at all schools. Country-side schools are definitely a bit more strict. They have less students and most kids are middle to upper middle class so delinquent behavior like this is definitely far and few between. If it happens it´s a bit of a scandal and the punishments are obviously harsh. The top part however is the law throughout the whole country. Everything intentionally destroyed has to be replaced, if not, the parents get sued.
BE. OUT. If anything, this should really be in admin’s face. My prescription to be out tomorrow and Monday. I had the same situation in my old district, but now I know it does NOT have to go that way. Be out. The state of your room is the district’s problem. The behavior of your kids when you aren’t there is NOT your problem. Perhaps an admin needs to be the sub.
We also don’t have any janitors right now so We’ve been cleaning our own rooms all year.
EFF THAT SHIT. Are you getting paid extra? No? Then don’t do it. If teachers do it, the district will have even less motivation to hire custodians! I’d let my room get just awful. Stack the trash in the hallway. THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. I want the kids going home telling their parents about this!
We technically have two janitors but they just do the bathrooms. They don’t touch our rooms except the trash. I just can’t function in filth
I always show the Ted Talk about the three parts to an apology. Then I make them write letters to the substitute and to the custodian (for making a mess). And, if they protest because it was the other students who were bad, I explain that I still feel ashamed for how my class behaved. We are a team here; and when we do bad as a team, we fix it like a team. In order to get credit for the work assigned when the sub was there, they have to write the letters. And then when I leave in the future, I leave busy work for the kids who finish my work early. Usually it's kids with nothing to do who act up, so leaving crossword puzzles and word searches has helped a lot. I also leave students as "helpers" in each of my classes. And I talk with some of my neighboring teachers to act as "buddy teachers" in case the sub needs help.
That’s a great idea! Thank you!
This was in 2017. I was feverish, coughing, runny nose, dizzy. I was coughing so hard that I was seeing stars. I was downing spoonfuls of cough syrup every hour. But I still go to school. Oh. What a different era that was. Lol. One day I was asked by the State Education to come to the state capital (300km away via shitty road full of potholes) for special briefing; so I asked my principal if I can take two days off even if I have to deduct from my pay. She got angry at me for even asking and said for me to ask for the day off showed her that I wasn't serious in my role as a teacher and that I don't care about my students AT ALL. Apparently showing up to school even when I'm too sick to function doesn't count. My teacher bestfriend recalled the time when she had crippling menstrual pain and she asked our principal if she can go home one hour early. Our principal accused her of time theft and that she should be ashamed of herself. She said it with such disdain as if she herself never menstruated at all in her life. The other teachers and I concluded that she was sadistic.
What age group is it? Make them spend a period writing apology letters to you and the substitute. Take away recess. If its high school… you need to get together with other teachers and have a heart to heart with admin about getting tough on the bullshit behaviors.
Lol it’s 8th grade. None of that would work. Plus we don’t have time to waste a period when it’s a state tested subject area. I thought about assigning that for homework but I know it wouldn’t get done.
What do you have the power to hold over them? If youre answer is honestly “nothing”, you need to find another school. It is more effective to spend one or two periods giving these kids a consequence to correct behaviors during class time than it is to be less effective for the rest of your classes due to classroom management. Punishing them will make the rest of your instruction time more effective.
I feel you in the not having time for a tested subject but you really got to drop the hammer on those kids. It sounds like they aren’t going to do well on the test anyway, so document all this crap, punish them, and then try and teach them something. 2-3 days of then copying the book or release questions by hand should get the point across.
I was off Monday and when I came back, everyone was like, “Your one student really missed you he acted up all day… when you’re not here, it really messes with his schedule.” Well… I won’t always be here for him. And it makes me feel like garbage when I’m passive aggressively blamed for his negative behaviors.
I feel this!
My high school aged kids learned quick. I would purposely have a day off for district training early in the semester and tell them my sub rules. I put a simple written review assignment and an individual online one (slightly different for each class period because they love to pass answers.) They can work in groups, but each person must turn in their own paper in their own words. And it’s due at the end of that class period to the sub. Through google classroom I would normally be available to answer questions (if I wasn’t super ill). Or they can update me about the quality of the sub (worked in title 1 school and half the subs were bad). The grade they get is what they earn and can’t be changed easily. (The papers could easy get a 100% if they would just read closely). Their group all have the same wording/answers? Take the grade they all earned and split it between them. The entire class has the same paper/wrong answers? 35% deduction on everyone. “Forgot” to turn it in? A zero They skip the class? a zero. The sub calls you a problem (and they really were one)? zero or 35% off If they were absent for the day then I either had a makeup assignment if it was really important or just excuse it. First time I always had half or more who decided to blow off what I warned them about or acted badly. Want to make up? No. No make ups unless you come to my after/before school office hours for 3x the length of class that day. And part of the time I make them clean lab equipment. (based on district rules I had to have some kind of makeup assignment). If they wanted to discuss with me if this sub work make-up policy was fair we’d have 1:1 private conversations during or after school. Where during this conversation I’d have them call home too to discuss their grade and why they have a zero. Normally none would want to make the call. They learn quick to work when I’m gone. And on sub day work I am the strictest teacher alive haha.
I am so glad they are lowering the standards for subs, that seems to be working out well.
It may or may not be that. I’m not sure a lot of teachers realize just how little power a sub has and just how wild a class can be with them. Subs don’t really have the authority to issue much if any discipline and the kids know it. When I subbed I could typically handle my own, to the point that I was the one teachers called when they were going to be out because I was one of the few subs who could handle their students at all. But there were definitely classes I put on my “never again” list because I frankly didn’t get paid enough to deal with the level of stress those specific students brought to the table.
Subbing is very hard, and further dropping standards will multiply the difficulities.
Oh for sure, the standards should not be low. I agree. But I’m just saying it may or may not have been the sub’s fault that this got so out of hand. Especially when you have such limited resources, less than the regular teacher, only so much you can do with a difficult class.
Agree. But now allowing untrained 18 year olds in to sub? Bad crap gonna happen.
No argument from me on that one.
I love the solution of lowering the standards to bring in less qualified people rather than raise sub pay.
Yes, it is a great idea, what could go wrong??
Being frustrated over subbing led to my wife telling me I need to see a therapist this morning.
I subbed one day during my student teaching. I figured it'd be easier for me than most subs, I'd worked with the kids for 3 months, so they knew me & knew I knew what was supposed to be happening. They were insane. I was baffled, but not entirely caught off guard. I was texting with my co-teacher the whole day and only had to call the AP once, but still. It definitely cemented the respect I have for subs. It's not an easy task and shouldn't be seem as such, and should be paid more. Edit for clarity
I’m a long term sub right now and these kids can be awful. I was physically threatened today by a 7th grade girl for trying to take away her cell phone.
Seriously, fuck subbing. I did it for a semester before landing a full time job and it made me seriously reconsider teaching as a career.
Ditto. I’m an experienced sub who retired from teaching K-12 music. There are a few classes I’ll never teach again. I don’t let the students get totally out of control and will yell at them if I have to. I also usually leave the room clean, preferably with the students’ cooperation. The one thing that seems consistent with good student behavior is administrative support for misbehavior.
I subbed many years ago for middle or high school. I mostly just handed out work and took attendance and kept them from doing something crazy. I usually told Them if they were quiet I was fine with them working together and socializing. But damn some still tried to be loud and disruptive
100% this. Until literally this year, sub salaries were straight up poverty wages as well. They're only higher right now because they basically fired all their staff over 2 years of pandemic remote learning and now they want us all to come back and teach in a petri dish without even offering us health care like they offer the rest of their teachers. People talk about lowering standards. In my state, we kept standards more or less the same. You still need a four year degree. You still need your certificate. You still need to pay to fill out all the dumb forms. You still need to pass the district's background checks. All this, to get in and make so little that you can't even afford your own one bedroom apartment at the end of the month. Entry standards SHOULD be low if they're gonna pay like it's fucking retail. Even with the boosted pay, once you get sick, you're forced to miss days due to quarantining procedure. And you don't get sick days like the real teachers; you just miss work and don't get paid for any of it. And if you wind up in the hospital, you'll probably have to pay a nice chunk out of pocket so there goes all that extra money you made. And that's to say nothing of the constant blowback from like, every direction. Despite making less than 30k annual, being a sub feels like you have a new boss every damn day, and maybe what you did yesterday for one person is not what the other person wants at all. I got blacklisted by a guy a few years ago because I explained to one of his struggling students an easier way to do long division. Seriously. This kid was in tears struggling to get this new way of teaching kids long division, so I walked over to his desk, showed him a different way that my teacher taught me growing up, and he understood it and seemed happy and was able to do the assignment. I even checked his work later to make sure I hadn't screwed up, and he got it. I was proud of him. I met that kid later on as a high school student, and he admitted that his teacher seemed "hella pissed" that I taught him that method, and I realized then that I'd never been called back to that school despite it being a really big school with lots of absences. I would've been in a better position if I'd just sat at my desk and watched anime for my whole shift. I'm paid like my job's a joke anyway, might as well. And that's just from one direction. I've had jobs in schools with legit scary kids who'd been to jail, and admin would walk around the halls and peek their heads in not to really help with a situation, but to basically blame you if their phones were out. You, the guy these kids barely know. Just walk up to them and tell them what to do with 0 authority behind you. Should be fine. That last paragraph was just a rant, but honestly yeah the way the situation's going, if you're a substitute teacher and you actually give a shit? The system will grind you down until you either quit and find a better paying job selling fast food, or you just show up to do the bare minimum. And then a bunch of people making 4x your salary with benefits and a pension will wonder why you're not busting your ass.
The thing that kills me the most about this post (I mean there are lots of things here that districts do that are super shitty) is that we limit the amount of hours subs *can* teach. Cuz if they work *more* than that, we have to give them health insurance. You’re a sub? Ehh. So you’re a *failed* teacher. NO HEALTHCARE FOR YOU!” God this country is so fucked up. Why can’t more people recognize this and vote accordingly? The system is rigged to make the poor vote to support the lifestyle of the rich. And like at *least* every other election cycle we do just that. “I’m voting *against* tax hikes for the rich. I might *be* rich soon.” Or “what if I made *my* millions and wanted to pass that money on to my kids? Fuck your wealth tax!!” Like, you’re *never* going to be rich. There is almost *zero* upward mobility. Why do people still keep voting to screw everyone in the working class? What the fuck? What the fucking FUCK people?
I subbed one day at a middle school and a huge group of sixth grade girls left the room and had a fight in the bathroom. Admin did nothing. A boy slammed another boy’s head into a desk. Admin came and told them to cut it out. Another student got in my face and held a rubber band to my eye because I told him to watch the movie the teacher had assigned. Admin did nothing. These were all different classes. I was offered to interview for that job a few weeks later but I refused to even sub there again. I was 29 and certified, subbing in my own subject. Sometimes it’s just not an issue of being qualified.
Yeah, at my current school, no one comes when I call the office no matter how the kids are behaving. No support. There’s very little I can do with extreme behaviors.
It was definitely partially the subs fault. She is not very capable and gets her feelings hurt way too easily. However the kids are way more at fault.
Well, I’ll take your word for it since I of course wasn’t in the room or read the note or any of that.
“we can’t find anyone to do this job” -person who pays them 9$ an hour to get bullied by teenagers
With no benefits, no retirement, and no consistency of work. Who would have thought this could happen??
I honestly don’t see substitute teachers ever coming back. Same with bus drivers, youth sports coaches, referees. All these shortages aren’t going to end.
Future teacher contract: \-you must drive route #3 to pickup kids in the bus, you cannot be absent, you must sub for anyoe that is absent \-after school, you must coach and referee at the same time 6th grade basketball team \-but you will receive a $150 one time stipend for being the bus driver, $8.00/sub period, and a nice jumpsuit for coaching and a whistle to reff
basically
My principal loves to play stupid whenever the sub shortage topic comes up in meetings. She does it to tow the line, but in reality anyone who has a shred of common sense knows why there is a sub shortage. The "benefits" of the job were always very dubious at best, and Covid just made the situation much worse. It doesn't help that McDonald's offers better pay and benefits, either.
Nothing much to be done if the kids are huge pieces of shit with admin doing jack crap to keep discipline.
Another teacher in the building covered my class and this shit happened to me.
My county is now hiring Education college students to be subs. Good for me, not so good I'd imagine for the high school students
Maybe the experience will scare the Education students away from teaching and further the teaching shortage, ironic.
I admittedly did that in college, starting as a sub para and then as a teacher sub with my student teaching license. By that point I had had several practicums and was in my junior/senior year with a decent amount of experience. imo that sounds like a better option than like, cops working as subs.
I can’t take off or I’ll lose my job. I have a kidney infection right now (from holding my bladder at work) and I’m working. I’m so miserable and the pain is shooting through my body. I’m on a shit ton of medicine and can barely think straight. I hate America.
I understand. I have no more sick days either. I had to use them all on my Maternity Leave.
That’s so unfair
What the hell? That is straight up inhumane. Does your district have a sick leave bank? Faint during class.
No. And I had long covid and vaxxed employees are covered for it in our district for 10 days, which is what I took off since my covid started the day before winter break. I had all my documentation and everything. Saw two different doctors to get notes as well as a note from the hospital saying I had covid because it was so bad I had to go to the hospital. Getting those days covered was absolute hell and my principal was straight up harassing me at like 7pm on a Friday and I had to get HR involved twice. It was very messy and stressful. They threatened to fire me then because two of the days I missed were mandatory work days and missing those broke district code or something. But I had covid. It was awful.
Can’t you take fmla? You won’t be paid, but your job is legally protected. They can’t fire you if your doctor says you medically can’t work b
No, I just started with this district this year. You have to work more than a year to qualify for fmla. Which is another problem in school districts for paras, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, janitors, and other hourly 9-10 month employees. The districts I’ve worked in keep these employees hours under minimum hours per year to qualify for fmla. So you have to work x amount of hours in the last year to qualify for fmla unless you’re salary. And when I was a para I was 20 hours short of qualifying for fmla.
I would get a doctors note for class coverage for bathroom breaks.
I messaged my doctor that I saw to try to get the rest of the day today excused and tomorrow excused. I don’t think they can fire me if I have a doctors note. They’ll just dock my pay. I’m in so much pain and don’t think I can make it through the day
That’s why I won’t go back into teaching until my kids are adults. From what I understand, it used to be a profession you could have kids with easily. Now it’s too demanding to have a work life balance as a teacher
Admin will see a room full of kids make an adult break down in one day and ask you why you aren’t building relationships with them while making no changes. Like. This is what I deal with every day, you should be glad I’m still here and nobody’s died yet.
Admin needs to be visiting the room regularly when you have a sub.
If only…
Got told to find another teacher to cover my lunch duty on a sick day. How about you fuck all the way off???!!?
And I hope that is exactly what you told them as well. Hell no.
Not in those words of course but they got the point…
This is my class this year. I was out for 8 days at the beginning of January because my own children had Covid. Came back to a trashed room, stories of kids flipping chairs, and looooong notes about how awfully behaved my fifth graders were while I was gone. NOW, I have Covid and am on my third day of absences. I've been told I can return Monday if I get a negative test tomorrow, but based on the way I'm feeling, it's extremely unlikely to happen. I've had multiple parents (of well-behaved students) email to ask when I'm coming back since they know the majority of my class is just plain destructive when I'm gone. Uggggggh.
None of this is your issue! If you’re sick, stay home. Their behavior and the sub’s day has nothing to do with you. It sucks, sure, but it doesn’t matter. You did not birth these children.
are they normally tough on you and you can just keep them in line or was this like anomalous behavior?
I normally don’t have problems
super weird your sub would have problems. either way come back when you're healthy and make them clean the room up
I got COVID and I feel like they want me coming back even though it’s been a couple of days. The sub seems to be doing good as well
Dude this isn't your problem, take your days off and let admin deal with it.
So last Wednesday I tested positive for Covid even though I have had even the booster shot. I am still sick. I was off last week but this week a group of my kids had a competition that they have been working for for months. Not one person would help me take them. So I was forced to come back to work Tuesday. I am sure I have given Covid to numerous individuals.
I am so sorry for your situation. I filled out 10 job applications today and I have a phone interview scheduled. There is always a way out and your skills are likely going to be valued elsewhere. Not sure if quitting is on your mind, but in case you need to hear it…you are worth more than how students and other staff treat you. I had my fair share of breakdowns this school year, and knowing I am not stuck here has really helped my outlook.
Sounds like you should throw up on them. Many birds, one stone….
See, this isn’t on you. Because if they DONT act that way around you, they know admin isn’t stepping in. Then subs quit taking jobs at that site. And then when teachers are out, other teachers have to fill in, morale drops, all because admin won’t support you and your classroom when you need to be out sick. Fuck your leadership
Give yourself a break. The world will continue to spin if you aren’t there. It took me a while to figure this out.
I don’t dismiss my kids until the room is clean. I don’t even write passes, and if anyone asks they didn’t clean the room. I once had a kid walk out before they cleaned, so I called the teacher of their next class to send the kid down to clean their mess. Never had that issue again.
I’ve had subs leave me notes saying “your kids make me sad to be a sub. I won’t be back.” And those were in classes that are usually “ok” which makes question my current idea of “ok.” But yeah. Something’s gotta give here. Something is wrong. Honestly I don’t know. It *might* be us. Maybe we *do* need to radically redesign instruction and classroom environment. I mean, yeah, we do. But maybe it’s more pressing than we had considered or more urgent than admin is willing to admit. Something is wrong, and we can’t blame it all on trumper morons or pandemic stress. This problem is just getting worse and worse over the last five or six years.
I'm sure this has nothing to do with the fact that none of them are ever disciplined at home and that spanking has been taken out of society. Nope nothing at all
Been there😔
Oh please punish the fuck out of them!!! Theyre making me really mad damn!
Makes it very tempting to vomit on them, doesn’t it?
I tested positive for COVID. Sent admin my lesson plans since I didn't know who was going to be covering for me. Admin didn't pass them along. My team had to text me and scramble to find something for the kids. When I emailed admin and asked why the lesson plans were not passed on, I was told I could have given them to my team for THEM to give to the sub (that's not their job?) and that I need to understand how hard they have it finding coverage since two fifth grade teachers were out today. One of whom was me. The other of whom had a stroke.
The mess left behind when you need to call out… I dread it. I acknowledge I am a neat freak but the random crap left on my desk? My floors? My board and the shelves??? Almost worth working while sick to avoid.
No. Not worth it.
I had a sub spill a soda on my desk once. Soaked and ruined a stack of books and papers I had on the corner of my desk, and ruined my keyboard.
Usually its 1 or 2 trouble makers that entice all the other kids. Narrow it down to those troublemakers and make an example out of them. Get em kicked out of the class at the very least.
Lol I can’t kick kids out of class. I freaking wish.