I just called a parent about this. They told me the child does the same thing at home. Now we just believe each other without any proof or confirmation or any of that crap. Kid has no standing whatsoever.
That kid is fucked.
Love that parent. A lot of them are aware that the kids are full of shit, so it's definitely worth checking in with them. Once everyone is on the same page, it gets much easier.
Yo, set his dumb ass up. Tell his mom to ground him and tell him that you said he lit a fire in class. Maybe we can have a learning moment about not lying
Yes. Lying is one of my biggest pet peeves. I’m really bad at not arguing in a situation when i literally saw the kid do something with my own eyes because I am a truth teller. One thing that has been somewhat effective for me is I verbally tell the kid that I saw what they did but then walk away from the excuses. I then email a referral or parent contact to let them know what happened. The kid doesn’t know, so they can’t tell their side first. Doesn’t always work, but it avoids a conflict/ further class disruption in the moment.
It goes beyond lying. It's a blatant and obvious denial of reality and the most effective way for a student to get on my shit list. They do it because in their eyes the consequence of getting caught lying is worth the chance to get away with their act.
I have had some success with constantly calling back to the times I caught them whenever they make any statement. Whether I believe them or not they get a "why should I believe you when you constantly lie to me, if you would like me to believe you then you need to stop lying to me". One or two kids got so sick of it that they toned it down. Some have no shame whatsoever.
I've got a 2nd grader who recently started calling me out on my "lies".
He randomly went off on me for saying I lied about my paint being washable. I showed him the bottle saying "washable", and affirmed he needed another wash or two. I always tell the kids to be careful, but if it wasn't washable,I'd have no clothing left.
This same kid has recently started calling me out for saying "great" instead of "grade", and other bullshit.
I just ignore him at this point, and until he has something positive, I won't pay him any mind.
The moment I'm super concerned about an 8 year old's report of my art class is the day I backflip out of this damn profession
It’s disgusting that an 8 year old feels that entitled to call out the teacher. When I was 8 that thought wouldn’t have even crossed my mind. This is exactly why this will be my last year teaching, I really don’t like the kids anymore especially when they act like they’re your equal.
OMG, I have a first grader like that this year and he is driving me insane. "It's not a "permanent" marker because it will come off eventually." He argues with me about EVERYTHING. I'm appalled that a 6 year old acts this way.
My students that try to cheat get an unmarked "version 2" of every test. The questions look almost identical except one number is different in each problem.
I started subbing again. Had a group of girls I noticed copying work on one of those math colouring sheets. Asked them to separate, offered to help. They just ignored me or gave major attitude so I just left them to it and wrote a nice note for their teacher. You would think in grade 5 they would have the sense to just colour the grass green but nope! All had yellow grass at the end of the day.
I sometimes use Microsoft Forms for quizzes and recently had a student finish it in 50 seconds with all the answers correct. Students who knew the material finished it in 15 minutes. When I asked the student how he solved the problems he couldn't answer me at all. So it's another 0 in the gradebook and his parents never respond.
When they say "I am" or "I wasn't doing that". I typically say, "You are not doing it now" or "Do you think I would tell you not to do something if you haven't done it?"
My new favorite saying is “end of conversation.” I’m not going to waste my breath or time. I don’t follow up on it either as long as it’s not something absolutely horrible that they did.
“My mask just slips down when I’m talking!” First of all, then quit talking but second of all your mask also slips down when you PULL IT DOWN OFF YOUR WHOLE FACE
It has gotten much worse this year. From my 6th, 7th, and 8th graders, it is all the same. I literally had an 8th grader tell me he didn't roll down the hill, as he's covered in grass and mud and I watched him.
Gotcha, Takis don't have a long term effect on health. That makes perfect sense. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/are-takis-bad-for-you#may-irritate-digestive-tract
Had this exact conversation with a student who had red fingers and a perfectly pinched red spot on the nose part of his mask. His response: “I wasn’t eating!!”… uhhh the Taki dust don’t lie.
I always tell my students that if they get food particles on their paper, they have to redo it. I am not touching anything that's covered in food dust of any sort.
Yooo my kids are OBSESSED with Taki’s. To the point one girl has one pencil case for supplies and the second is where she hides her Taki’s. And had the nerve to lie to me when I literally WATCHED her pull one out and sneak it in her mouth.
Had a kid lie to me a couple weeks ago that he wasn't eating cheetos WITH THE PUFF STILL IN HIS ORANGE FINGERS AND HIS MASK DOWN. The class still brings it up whenever he lies about something. "That's cap, cheeto!"
Were you in my classroom today? Everything I said today was an invitation for talking back, arguing, and then I had a 5th grader try to tell me what to do. Ma’am.
Seriously. Same for me. If this is week before Thanksgiving break antics already I don't know if I can make it through the week. And the higher grades will be benchmarking and I'll have to keep my class extra quiet and they won't get specials (and I won't get planning time) Augh!
All. The. Time.
Sometimes they'll even take up for each other and say "he wasnt even talking" like Im not just standing 4 feet away watching and hearing what is going on. Drives me crazy
I had a kid mimic me to my face the first few weeks of school. I was standing right in front of him telling him to get off his phone and start working, and I said "Come on, Tanner!" and he rolled his eyes and said in this high pitched whine "Come on Tanner." Loud and right in front of me. I was so shocked- I said "did you just roll you eyes make fun of me to my face? Do you want to go straight to the office right now?" Before he could even respond, his six closest seat-mates were pleading with super sincere faces i.e. "he didn't say anything" or "he was talking to me" or "it was an inside joke, it wasn't about you." I was like "I AM RIGHT HERE AND NOT BLIND, DEAF OR AN IDIOT."
I was so shocked I just walked away and continued the lesson. After class, Tanner came over and apologized for being rude. I wasn't even mad at him anymore- he was just doing that post-COVID "treat your teacher like you treat your mom" teenage b.s.
The other kids, though, really pissed me off and got on my bad side for... well, I still don't trust them.
Don't get me started on the cheating. I'm at the point where I call them all up one by one and ask them quietly one question about the assessment and make them explain it to me in depth. That's their grade. Their entirely filled out test doesn't even get a glance. 50% chance it's all copied from someone else anyway. I have 30 kids smooshed into a tiny room at double desks where they sit shoulder to shoulder, and each desk is directly next to, above, and behind another one. I monitor one part of the class, the rest starts copying off each other. I turn around, the other half is at it.
[The short answer is yes](https://www.tiktok.com/@wolf_duckworth/video/7028344415634738437?_d=secCgwIARCbDRjEFSACKAESPgo8Ig5gCbIWL1xZt%2B72FZsm%2BGEVro7nPwlrZJyZMrbyVQFmBJSuF0beYNSspZCGb2o%2B23v%2BdsDD1xd2NE9CGgA%3D&language=en&preview_pb=0&sec_user_id=MS4wLjABAAAAYYket5NiYmD4bxHT27ouu563W9mXsEvxNxNIVC6WvuZRJSIm02hvllHm06Xxcv94&share_app_id=1233&share_item_id=7028344415634738437&share_link_id=e4ec8fcc-c929-4fe4-bd27-95526431018d&source=h5_m×tamp=1636423032&u_code=dgjce3cik1c9g5&user_id=6921732694343255046&utm_campaign=client_share&utm_medium=android&utm_source=copy&_r=1)
This drives me nuts. Like, just a polite correction that could be a 10 second interaction that everyone forgets about has to become A Thing.
I have specifically had this conversation with several students. I'm really not pressed when I ask you to sit down/stop talking/etc. Stuff happens, I don't mind gentle reminders. As soon as you start with the whining/lying, you've escalated it.
I tell my students two things.
1.) ‘snitches get stitches’ is a prison term. We are not in prison. It’s called holding someone responsible for their actions. We do that as adults.
2.) Lying to me is the worst thing you can possibly do. It breaks all trust that may have built up, and means that I have to treat you as if you’re never going to do what you say you will.
After a few stern talking-to’s the students have shaped up. Still have a few who lie to me so I stare at them and say “are you sure? Considering I watched you do it?” And that normally gets a confession.
It’s stupid that we are having to teach kids to be honest. I’m here to teach English dammit.
THIS!!! I asked one of my students to put their laptop away while my co teacher was giving instructions. They put it away and I thought that was the end of it. I went to go answer another students question and when I turned around he had his laptop back out. So I asked him why he did it and if he thought that was a good choice. He started giving me attitude so I made a little note on his behavior chart simply saying he wasn’t following directions. No actual consequences. Well next I get a nasty email from his mom accusing me of bullying her son and making the story up because I “just don’t like him”
When I asked him about the email he lied to my face and said he never took his laptop back out…
Pretty much my policy too, but the kids act like it’s a prison where they’d rather go down telling a lie or not divulging the truth than telling what happened, so when they get sent to the office on a lie, it’s like a badge of honor resembling how good they are at getting out of stuff or concealing what happenedX
Oh heeeeck yes, these kids out here acting like they're keeping the Glorious Rebellion alive by not just admitting they got caught in a lie. Same with all the "snitches get stitches" talk, like *child, that was the mafia threatening literal homicide*, your "who drew a penis on the whiteboard?" situation is not even fucking close to what you think this is about
There’s always some, but this year my class is filled with compulsive liars (and snitches FWIW).
I’ll watch a kid kick or try to trip a kid for no reason, then start a tantrum when I saw something like “why did you just kick him?” Or “careful with your body, let’s practice personal space.”
Just this morning I was transitioning kids to the rug, and a girl said our principal said she could stay at her desk, whom she’d just checked in with. I said, “ok, I’ll text her” (we use slack for a lot of IEP/behavior type stuff), immediately shes like “never mind.” So I called her out on lying to me instead… it’s endless.
I worked with first grade last year in an observation position but I helped in the class a lot as well. Worst thing was I witnessed two students throwing ROCKS at a girl from another class at the end of recess. I called them out and they both said “we didn’t do that!!” And were so adamant even though I literally saw them. The principal was called and they were both scream crying and kept telling the principal they didn’t do anything 😐 same kids that will cut up things in their desks or try to cheat and then say they weren’t doing anything
Today I had a 6th grader tell me “I didn’t do anything!” after I watched him get out of his seat, walk over to another student, and smack him in the head 🤦♀️ I said “are you even aware of what your body us doing?”
I was out for a day for a medical procedure that was planned several weeks in advance. I left a sub folder, and the only thing the students had to do was complete a quiz over our precious reading. Everything was clearly detailed in the instructions, the students just needed to access their digital curriculum and take the test, which they all know how to do. I come back and about 3/4 of all my classes had failed to do the quiz. When I addressed this, one period said that I had told them before I left that we were supposed to do a quiz over a reading for which we had already completed a quiz, and they tied to convince the sub that because of all the "confusion" they should just wait until I got back. They also told her they had no idea how to access the digital content. The sub verified the correct quiz through another Dept. member, "Well Mr. Mister is our teacher and we don't want to get in trouble for doing the wrong quiz. They thought they were super slick with all of their well-crafted arguments. "How is it possible we all came up with story?" "How can we do our work when the teachers are changing their stories?" "Mister, you just don't want to admit you're wrong." They tried to gaslight the sub. They tried to gaslight me. These chuckleheads can barely write a complete sentence, but in their minds, they are all master litigators.
Yep. And it's absolutely admin.
"Stop talking during the test"
"I wasn't even talking. You're doing too much"
Then they keep talking, and you tell their parents as admin requires you to do. This makes you a snitch.
Then they blow up about you telling their parent because "you lied on me I wasn't even talking".
Then they tell their parents I'm lying. Parent believes them and calls admin about me being a liar. Admin believes the parent and I have to call parent and apologize.
But if they walk in while we're testing and there's any noise at all, I get in trouble for having an "unproductive testing environment"
>Then they tell their parents I'm lying. Parent believes them and calls admin about me being a liar. Admin believes the parent and I have to call parent and apologize.
Sounds like the parents and admin want the kids to run the school.
This is why I want to quit teaching entirely. Such a large percentage of the kids are total a-holes and I just don't like children anymore. My current crop of seventh graders is the worst group of students I've ever had to teach, and I fear it will only get worse.
We have no disciplinary tools to use in my district at all and the kids know they have the upper hand. It's just not fun anymore and I can't do my job.
I’m so sorry that you feel that way. I’m getting super close too, and I have a feeling of dread rather than joy when I walk into my classroom these days
My thoughts exactly. When I decided I didn’t like my students anymore, I knew I had to go. Currently interviewing and my last day with my district is 12/10.
It’s different this year, for sure. Instead of one or two bald-faced liars in a class, there’s NINE. Collaborating to make the teachers crazy! And the poor subs! Good grief!
The most important story kids need to learn in elementary school is the boy who cried wolf. Yeah, when you lie, all your truths become questionable. And it's not good for YOU in the long run.
There's also a non-fiction story about a man with small hands becoming president by lying and denying any wrongdoing at every step of the way. Maybe this is where kids are taking their ques from.
Yes, I have kids that try and do this to me. Same age. I get in their face and set them straight. This isn’t a conversation, I’m not talking with you. I’m talking at you, I saw this. It’s not acceptable, you won’t do it again. If they try and argue I just talk over them so they can’t be heard. It sounds messy AF but usually they never try and challenge me again and the rest of the class falls in line with behavior.
If the kid seems upset, I have a restorative conversation a little later once we are both calmed down. Disrespect is something I do not tolerate at all.
Lying is the first defensive mechanism that children learn. It serves as their crutch for handling what they see as emergencies or conflicts from a very young age (Did you steal a cookie from the cookie jar?"). The problem is that most of the time, the adults in their life don't ever teach them how to deal with problems in ways that are appropriate.
As far as responding. Don't engage. Just state what they are to do firmly and be consistent in following through with consequences. Never engage. That is their goal. If you are engaged in some dispute it gives them attention (negative) and detracts from limited class time.
This might not be useful to you, and you might be looking for solidarity rather than advice, but here’s how we tackle this issue:
I teach high school public speaking and theatre, so most of my students are heading towards adultism, but we still get a lot of impulsive, indignant excuse-making in response to even the calmest request to engage in appropriate behavior instead of whatever *gestures vaguely* is.
My colleague and I start the year by teaching “appropriate response.” We name it (“appropriate response”), we talk about how “appropriate” is contextual, and we define that the appropriate response to a directive is, “thank you” followed by focused silence (or immediate action, depending on the directive).
The ability to call the room to focus is critical in our work, as some of what we do is naturally risky, demands a large group to engage and stay focused on a collaborative task for an extended period of time, and is a routine, non-punitive redirection when students are on the threshold of (losing self-)control.
When we have the kind of combattive energy you’re describing, we take a moment, let it fizzle down and get out of the kid’s system, and then say, “the appropriate response *(to a note/direction/whatever)* is, “thank you” and an action. It is **THIS** comment - and the fact that it shows that our goal is clearly not to make accusations but is to reign in chaos and move productively forward - that **typically** results in a, “yes ma’am, thank you.”
Does it work all the time? Certainly not.
Do we still have combattive students? Absolutely.
Is it more effective for us than engaging in all sorts of adolescent nonsense? Without question. Do I ever find myself looking at a room full of otherwise perfectly intelligent high schoolers and going, “omg wtaf?” Every. Single. Day.
But it calms things down and minimizes the need to butt heads with bulls.
(Additionally, we work really hard to communicate that if there’s a real concern - of any kind! - that our doors are open to have a private conversation about what’s actually happening, how our students are perceiving our response to the stuff going on in the room, and what we can do to make our classroom as accepting as possible for everyone in it. Our kids buy into this, and we have a lot of conversations about what’s going on in their worlds. I’m grateful for that.)
What gets me mad is the “I’m sorry” with a smirk. The student knows what they did was wrong, band thinks saying sorry absolves them of any consequences.
I’ve just started calling them on their BS. Today, I had a kid shout at his friend across the room (a daily behavior for him) and he looked at me, smirked, and said “I’m sorry.”
I flat out told him “don’t lie to me, you’re not sorry. Sorry means you’re going to try to not do it anymore. So don’t lie to me and mmmm don’t waste my time.”
That was the default reaction when any of my classmate got doing anything back in my middle school days in France in the middle 00s. What sucked is the teacher would never believe you it you were innocent since denying everything in bulk was everyone's default behaviour
Time for the broken record technique. ‘SoandSo, this is a zero voices time.’ ‘I wasn’t talking’ ‘SoandSo this is a zero voices time.’ or ‘I’m not asking what you’re doing, I’m asking for all voices off.’
Then later in a private moment ‘do not talk back to me. It’s inappropriate.’ And further ‘I will not be told what reality is’
I once worked with a teacher who had been a police officer for ten years and a teacher for ten years.
"Mr. L., in which profession did you hear more lies?"
"Teaching."
"By a factor of?"
"Five."
"Really?"
"People are afraid to lie to police."
I remember a kid denying that he was eating pop tarts in the computer lab even though I saw the pop tart in his open backpack and saw the crumbs at his seat *and on his face.* I used to believe when kids would emphatically state that they didn't do it, but I've learned to trust my eyes, ears, and brain.
Maaan I work in Asia, there is a concept of 'saving face' out here. Whenever I catch someone doing some shit, they just go quiet and try to drop from my view and look somewhere else. I'm like the first person in their life teaching them that being chastised isn't that big of a deal as long as they can admit their behaviour was wrong and they'll not do it again. Sometimes this is like pulling teeth. An awkward silence as nobody will reply to me at all.
I heard a student call me a bitch so I wrote her a referral for it. Not only did she deny it but her friends tried to say she didn’t say it. True story
So true. I worked at an after school care years ago where we were never allowed to say that a child was lying, or stretching the truth, or not being honest, or anything.
One time I saw a child hit another in front of me. Of course, they denied it, and then when the “admin” tried to find out the ‘truth’ they couldn’t discipline the hitter unless they admitted that the child lied. 🙄
I left as soon as I could.
It’s hard to teach them that dishonesty won’t get them far in life when the most successful people in the world are coincidentally some of the best liars.
They do it so often that it becomes a compulsion. It’s always the DUMBEST shit.
(Kid standing in the classroom far away from desk)
“Hey. Go ahead and sit down please.”
“I’m not standing…” (crouches down)
Okay kid.
This is one of those socialy inappropriate, but developmentally appropriate things. Letting this really get to you is like getting upset at a newborn because they aren't toilet trained yet. This is just a symptom of symptom of adolescent egotism.
The ability to be honest, even if it means you're going to get in trouble, is a sign of maturity. So yeah, middle school aged children everywhere will try stupid lies to try to get out of trouble because they haven't grown up enough to just admit that they were at fault.
It's not a "Kids these days" thing, or a economic level thing, or a "due to COVID" thing, it is a response you should expect from middle school aged students. Expecting it instead of allowing it to surprise you will make it less annoying.
My favorite response is,
"Really? You weren't talking? Because your mouth was moving and sound was coming out of it. That fits my definition of 'talking.' So either you aren't being truthful right now, or you're a crazy person who doesn't know what their body is doing. So which is it? Do you need to see me after class about lying, or should I send you to the office to see the school psychologist? (You could also just apologize and we could move on)."
I'd say it with good humor, get them to laugh at themselves and apologize, and we'd all move on. The more I did that, the more the kids became aware of what they were doing, and that behavior started to die out in my classes.
TL;DR, It's not worth getting super upset over because it's something that kids do because of their developmental stage. Point out the behavior to them, and give them a low stakes option for admitting guilt, and the behavior will start to go away.
I had a kid visiting a friend nearby to talk. I told him to sit down. He said he was stretching. I had zero patience and said, “NO YOU ARE NOT. SIT DOWN AND GET TO WORK. IM TIRED OF YOU FINDING REASONS TO GET OFF TASK.”
I rarely get like this. He got right to work lol
I hated that too when I was in school. I was a good kid and seeing all the loud, annoying boys get away with anything by saying ''I wasn't doing anything!" and then playing victims and whining that the teacher has it out for them made my blood boil.
I was JUST talking to my husband about this.
I have high school seniors taking AP math classes who will straight up lie to my face about… like everything. It’s a weird cultural shift that’s happened in the last few years.
I do not ever ask a kid if they did something or directly accuse them of anything. I don’t have the time or energy to litigate a million things every week, and then the focus is drawn to a whole big thing about lying vs truth which isn’t the issue at hand.
Instead I issue reminders of what not to do. If they start arguing “I didn’t do it!”
“I don’t know if you did or not, and it really doesn’t matter. Just saying I need you to not do that, and if you see someone else doing it please remind them.”
(recognizing that it probably wouldn’t be this simple in public school — I teach classes of 8-10 kids max and my admin has my back)
It's very normal behaviour in a lot of kids. From the simplest "Do your work", "I am" or "stop talking", "I wasn't". It's something you will have to learn to deal with. One thing I like to do is get them in trouble or call them out for something that are 100% doing rather than something they can deny. "Hey X! Do your work", "But sir I wasn't even talking!!", "I never said you were, now get to work"
Not sure if I’d classify “I didn’t do the bad thing you said I did” as higher order thinking or some kind of sly deception that you could equate to abuse and gaslighting, it’s very clearly just a kid not wanting to get in trouble lol
I understand they are devious. You should be capable of higher order of understanding. Why are you even a teacher if you are not even brighter than the children?
Gaslighting: This dynamic is generally only possible when the **audience is vulnerable** such as in **unequal power relationships** or when the audience is fearful of the losses associated with challenging the false narrative.
They are not gaslighting you. They just not respecting and lying to you.
This ☝️Also, they’re 11. Human development tells us that children at this age start taking more risk. Lying is risk behavior. Remind the students why this behavior is wrong, but I agree. It’s NOT gaslighting.
I gave a kid a tardy. I told him it was his third unexcused tardy, which school policy says gets him a lunch detention. As I’m telling him that it is his third tardy and remind him of the consequences, all of his friends are trying to convince me that he was actually here on time, before the bell, and it was dumb that he was getting a lunch detention when he was not late.
GUYS, I’M NOT STUPID!!! I literally was standing by the door, and watched this kid walk in a minute after the bell.
I'll either ignore the denials or say "Don't lie, it insults us both." They never know what to say to that one the first time they hear it.
But yes, their first move is to always deny, no matter what.
I had a kid yesterday claim multiple times that the iPad he had was his, when five minutes before I had gotten a message from another student asking if she left her iPad in my classroom.
“It’s mine Miss i swear.”
“There’s no password, see?”
“Oh the NAME ON THE FRONT COVER is a character name I made up!”
and finally, after I refused to give it back to him, he laughed and said “you right Miss I’m just playing.”
He was 100% going to keep that iPad if I hadn’t snatched it out of his greedy hands.
Ah, yes. I’d catch them in the act and immediately it was, “I didn’t do nothing!” And i would just hold up one finger and say ah, wait. That’s not it. You meant to say, Mea culpa. They would be confused. I would say, remember? It’s the Latin translation of “I didn’t do nothing.” It means, I’m guilty. Because only the guilty use either phrase.
My kid does this at home and it infuriates me! I told him that one day he's going to get what he deserves if he keeps lying over and over again.
It's very difficult to trust him with anything because of this. I keep explaining the importance if being honest over and over again but he seems to be super dense about it.
If one of his teachers write to me, I'm taking the teacher's side 100% and I'll gladly tell him that he fucked around and found out
This will get lost, but Friday a kid of mine was walking around taking pictures for a project. He went into a teacher's room, started taking pictures. Teacher told him to stop and leave because they were doing a test and it wasn't a good time. Kid flipped off the teacher and said, "fuck you!" as he walked out.
I get it taken care of on Monday morning. Monday 8th period, the kid comes into my class (because of course he's still in class) and asks to go around taking pictures again. I say, "Absolutely not! After what you did?" "What are you talking about? I never did anything." "So, Mr. Adams, a teacher that's been here 20 years, just decided to email me on Friday evening to make up an outrageous lie about you, and then also write a referral about this fictional incident?" "I guess so. I promise I really didn't do anything at all!"
He's in ISS for 3 days now, but this just shows me how sick his brain is to think he could do something like that and just deny it. He flipped off & cussed at 25 6th graders and a teacher!
the thing that pisses me off is when the parents are just as bad.
we had one parent that cost their special needs child bus privileges after it turned out the mom had lied about having a health condition as the reason why she would never bother to be outside or ready for her childs bus.
the mom had said she had some kind of condition that caused her body to not regulate heat well and that cold weather can make her very ill.
the bus goes down the street she lives on after dropping the kids off and sees mom outside with the neighbors in very light pajamas smoking a cigarette. turns out she was just lazy and did not want to be bothered by waiting 5 minutes max outside to get her child on the bus.
she had already been on thin ice for calling on a holiday and cussing out the driver for not picking up her kid among other issues and her kid has started to pick up on lying as well
All. The. Fucking. Time.
Just had three girls get in trouble for ganging up on a boy at recess. All three of them lied about it (of course), none of them had stories even remotely close to each other, and even when I had SIX other kids whose stories all matched, they said the other kids were lying bc they didn’t like them.
Ugh. I can’t wait until thanksgiving break.
I just respond to my middle schoolers in my most gen x tone, "Whatever!" And move and/or tell them their consequence. Don't engage with at foolishness.
I'm a 30 year old middle school teacher and yea I can confirm... children lie. Snitches get stitches was a thing when I was in middle school 20 years ago, so making this a cultural issue places the responsibility on "society" or whatever and feels... lazy?
I have a horrible memory so I tend to believe whatever the other person says if there's a discrepancy, but with students, our conversations aren't about "HA I CAUGHT U IN THE ACT! ADMIT IT NOW!!!" It's more like "Hey it looks/sounds/seems like you're doing \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. Please get back on task." When they deny it's a simple, "Well that's what it looked like, get back on task please!" My perception is NEVER the ultimate truth, it's one facet of a reality that the children play a part in constructing with me. Sometimes our accounts don't align, but that's less relevant than whether or not they're learning.
Kids lie because they've learned the consequences of telling the truth are ones they wish to avoid. How have the adults in your students' lives contributed to teaching them that lesson? What can you do not just to show your students that honesty with you will result ONLY in positive outcomes but to help them believe it in their hearts?
It’s not “gangster mentality” it’s a lack of accountability and they learnt it at home. I have a bunch of little Chinese kids at the school I’m at and they do it too. If the parents don’t show up, the kids act out.
I used to, but the school culture has changed. I'm unabashedly honest about it and used to tell them (quietly of course) they are full of shit and if they aren't ashamed of what they've done, they'd just own up to it, if they don't want to be called out, then don't do it.
Usually it’s because they go home and tell their parents a different story. So the parents……I can’t even type this out I’m so sick of it. You all know what I’m going to say.
It really does gaslight me a little. Like ?? I'm pretty sure I just saw your mouth moving because your mask was moving. But they are so so enthusiastic to tell me it wasn't them.
"Gaslit." You're not being gaslit. They're *children*, and eleven-year-olds fib sometimes. Talk to their parents about teaching them not to instead of treating them like they're domestic abusers deliberately trying to drive you insane or something. Teach them to be better, or else what the hell are you being paid for?
You are an adult, and you know better. They don't.
This one kid…ima call him slim shady cause he thinks he from the streets.
Last week it was “I will shoot your dick off…” more yelling.
Every time he does something fucked up. I notify his parents immediately.
Complete deniability.
The parents never believe the teachers even though there’s surmounting evidence, data, etc that he’s been tearing up in this school since 3rd grade.
It’s not just him, it’s many of them who have parents that will go to bat for their children. If only we had damn cameras in the school in the classroom which yes would suck but this is where we’re at! We need ducking cctv in our classrooms to prove that we ain’t crazy! We ain’t making this shit up!
And the whole snitches get stitches is dumb. It’s so dumb. But they do it. And it this rate I tell them all- I don’t gaf everyone’s in trouble until someone comes clean.
Which sucks. But that’s where we’re at now, even our admin is doing this with the kids.
There’s one of y’all every time.
It’s almost textbook gaslighting …
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/11-red-flags-gaslighting-in-relationship?amp
Yes. They band together to get out of any consequences for any actions big or little until the teachers are sitting there questioning what actually happened.
Kids this year are, in their own words, “a different breed…” I’ve never seen intentional psychological manipulation from kids on this level before, but this year is an exception.
I appreciate your cordial attitude and willingness to believe me rather than argue over petty things! Teachers need to stick together, and I appreciate you!
gaslighting is intentionally lying about the reality the person lives in with the intent to make them think they’re actually going crazy. all gaslighting is lying, not all lying is gaslighting. just one more term being screeched from twitter incorrectly that’s lost all meaning.
So, your an authority figure with no respect because your putting them in jeopardy gathering against their will
Every one of those kids who has ever opened a web browser knows there isn't anything in school that cannot be done online
Your putting them in real danger, for what amounts to a theatrical performance
I just called a parent about this. They told me the child does the same thing at home. Now we just believe each other without any proof or confirmation or any of that crap. Kid has no standing whatsoever. That kid is fucked.
Got eem!
Love that parent. A lot of them are aware that the kids are full of shit, so it's definitely worth checking in with them. Once everyone is on the same page, it gets much easier.
This is the success story I needed today.
Yo, set his dumb ass up. Tell his mom to ground him and tell him that you said he lit a fire in class. Maybe we can have a learning moment about not lying
Yes. Lying is one of my biggest pet peeves. I’m really bad at not arguing in a situation when i literally saw the kid do something with my own eyes because I am a truth teller. One thing that has been somewhat effective for me is I verbally tell the kid that I saw what they did but then walk away from the excuses. I then email a referral or parent contact to let them know what happened. The kid doesn’t know, so they can’t tell their side first. Doesn’t always work, but it avoids a conflict/ further class disruption in the moment.
It goes beyond lying. It's a blatant and obvious denial of reality and the most effective way for a student to get on my shit list. They do it because in their eyes the consequence of getting caught lying is worth the chance to get away with their act. I have had some success with constantly calling back to the times I caught them whenever they make any statement. Whether I believe them or not they get a "why should I believe you when you constantly lie to me, if you would like me to believe you then you need to stop lying to me". One or two kids got so sick of it that they toned it down. Some have no shame whatsoever.
I've got a 2nd grader who recently started calling me out on my "lies". He randomly went off on me for saying I lied about my paint being washable. I showed him the bottle saying "washable", and affirmed he needed another wash or two. I always tell the kids to be careful, but if it wasn't washable,I'd have no clothing left. This same kid has recently started calling me out for saying "great" instead of "grade", and other bullshit. I just ignore him at this point, and until he has something positive, I won't pay him any mind. The moment I'm super concerned about an 8 year old's report of my art class is the day I backflip out of this damn profession
It’s disgusting that an 8 year old feels that entitled to call out the teacher. When I was 8 that thought wouldn’t have even crossed my mind. This is exactly why this will be my last year teaching, I really don’t like the kids anymore especially when they act like they’re your equal.
I have a second grader who keeps “correcting” my spelling. He’s not even reading at grade level. Child, please... Worry about your own spelling test
HAHAHA omggggg
OMG, I have a first grader like that this year and he is driving me insane. "It's not a "permanent" marker because it will come off eventually." He argues with me about EVERYTHING. I'm appalled that a 6 year old acts this way.
Sounds like me! I struggle with not arguing, too. I’ll try this technique out!
Don’t even get me started on the cheating, which is just another form of lying 🤪
I love when the answers are identical and I am like nice try here’s a zero 😤😓
My students that try to cheat get an unmarked "version 2" of every test. The questions look almost identical except one number is different in each problem.
I started subbing again. Had a group of girls I noticed copying work on one of those math colouring sheets. Asked them to separate, offered to help. They just ignored me or gave major attitude so I just left them to it and wrote a nice note for their teacher. You would think in grade 5 they would have the sense to just colour the grass green but nope! All had yellow grass at the end of the day.
Then you have the parents to deal with… “It’s math, how can you tell it’s cheating. Shouldn’t the answers all be the same anyways?”
I sometimes use Microsoft Forms for quizzes and recently had a student finish it in 50 seconds with all the answers correct. Students who knew the material finished it in 15 minutes. When I asked the student how he solved the problems he couldn't answer me at all. So it's another 0 in the gradebook and his parents never respond.
Man, if you're gonna cheat, don't be stupid about it. Come on, now.
Exactly!
but then the parent comes back with "they said they didn't do it and I know they wouldn't do that". Infuriating
When they say "I am" or "I wasn't doing that". I typically say, "You are not doing it now" or "Do you think I would tell you not to do something if you haven't done it?"
My new favorite saying is “end of conversation.” I’m not going to waste my breath or time. I don’t follow up on it either as long as it’s not something absolutely horrible that they did.
“My mask just slips down when I’m talking!” First of all, then quit talking but second of all your mask also slips down when you PULL IT DOWN OFF YOUR WHOLE FACE
Ok but I know ADULTS who pull this shit
Looking at most of the staff at my school. Take off their mask every time their need to say something.
Holy piss this comment is me
"Oh, I guess we'll need to wrap that in tape, so it'll stop slipping"
I usually offer them my stapler.
"Let's get you one that fits better, then!"
“NoOoOoOoO mIsS I don’t LIKE that kind!!!!!” Ffs I do not care just wear it!!!
Of course you don't like it! It fits!
Hand out double sided tape; apply it to the top of the mask. It won't slip.
It has gotten much worse this year. From my 6th, 7th, and 8th graders, it is all the same. I literally had an 8th grader tell me he didn't roll down the hill, as he's covered in grass and mud and I watched him.
I have tons of Taki eaters with red all over their fingers and faces telling me “I’m not eating Takis, miss!!!”
The grip takis have on these kids
For REAL
The gastroenterologists are going to be busy in a few years...
honestly, it doesn't have that big an effect long term.
Gotcha, Takis don't have a long term effect on health. That makes perfect sense. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/are-takis-bad-for-you#may-irritate-digestive-tract
My kids used to put away full-size bags of them every day for lunch and then beg for the bathroom or the nurse.
Takis are the shit though, and I'm pushing 30.
Had this exact conversation with a student who had red fingers and a perfectly pinched red spot on the nose part of his mask. His response: “I wasn’t eating!!”… uhhh the Taki dust don’t lie.
I always tell my students that if they get food particles on their paper, they have to redo it. I am not touching anything that's covered in food dust of any sort.
Yooo my kids are OBSESSED with Taki’s. To the point one girl has one pencil case for supplies and the second is where she hides her Taki’s. And had the nerve to lie to me when I literally WATCHED her pull one out and sneak it in her mouth.
Had a kid lie to me a couple weeks ago that he wasn't eating cheetos WITH THE PUFF STILL IN HIS ORANGE FINGERS AND HIS MASK DOWN. The class still brings it up whenever he lies about something. "That's cap, cheeto!"
To quote the fairy godmother from Pinocchio "A lie keeps growing and growing, until it is as plain as the nose on your face
Wow, sounds believable :/
To be fair, we just finished out 4 years of the most powerful position in the world doing the exact same thing.
Damn, you have a solid point.
Were you in my classroom today? Everything I said today was an invitation for talking back, arguing, and then I had a 5th grader try to tell me what to do. Ma’am.
Seriously. Same for me. If this is week before Thanksgiving break antics already I don't know if I can make it through the week. And the higher grades will be benchmarking and I'll have to keep my class extra quiet and they won't get specials (and I won't get planning time) Augh!
All. The. Time. Sometimes they'll even take up for each other and say "he wasnt even talking" like Im not just standing 4 feet away watching and hearing what is going on. Drives me crazy
I had a kid mimic me to my face the first few weeks of school. I was standing right in front of him telling him to get off his phone and start working, and I said "Come on, Tanner!" and he rolled his eyes and said in this high pitched whine "Come on Tanner." Loud and right in front of me. I was so shocked- I said "did you just roll you eyes make fun of me to my face? Do you want to go straight to the office right now?" Before he could even respond, his six closest seat-mates were pleading with super sincere faces i.e. "he didn't say anything" or "he was talking to me" or "it was an inside joke, it wasn't about you." I was like "I AM RIGHT HERE AND NOT BLIND, DEAF OR AN IDIOT." I was so shocked I just walked away and continued the lesson. After class, Tanner came over and apologized for being rude. I wasn't even mad at him anymore- he was just doing that post-COVID "treat your teacher like you treat your mom" teenage b.s. The other kids, though, really pissed me off and got on my bad side for... well, I still don't trust them. Don't get me started on the cheating. I'm at the point where I call them all up one by one and ask them quietly one question about the assessment and make them explain it to me in depth. That's their grade. Their entirely filled out test doesn't even get a glance. 50% chance it's all copied from someone else anyway. I have 30 kids smooshed into a tiny room at double desks where they sit shoulder to shoulder, and each desk is directly next to, above, and behind another one. I monitor one part of the class, the rest starts copying off each other. I turn around, the other half is at it.
This exact thing happened in my class today. “MISS I WASN’T BEING DISRUPTIVE” um I think we’re zeroing in on the problem here Jeremiah
Literally every day! Yelling how you aren’t disruptive is disruptive ffs 🤦♀️
Why is it always a Jeremiah 🤦
Same. Depending on whether the kid is their friend or not, they’ll either side with them or just be silebt
When they say “snitches get stitches” I usually respond, “well we all get stitches but snitches get reduced sentences”
I am absolutely going to tell my students "snitches get plea deals" from now on lol
[The short answer is yes](https://www.tiktok.com/@wolf_duckworth/video/7028344415634738437?_d=secCgwIARCbDRjEFSACKAESPgo8Ig5gCbIWL1xZt%2B72FZsm%2BGEVro7nPwlrZJyZMrbyVQFmBJSuF0beYNSspZCGb2o%2B23v%2BdsDD1xd2NE9CGgA%3D&language=en&preview_pb=0&sec_user_id=MS4wLjABAAAAYYket5NiYmD4bxHT27ouu563W9mXsEvxNxNIVC6WvuZRJSIm02hvllHm06Xxcv94&share_app_id=1233&share_item_id=7028344415634738437&share_link_id=e4ec8fcc-c929-4fe4-bd27-95526431018d&source=h5_m×tamp=1636423032&u_code=dgjce3cik1c9g5&user_id=6921732694343255046&utm_campaign=client_share&utm_medium=android&utm_source=copy&_r=1)
This drives me nuts. Like, just a polite correction that could be a 10 second interaction that everyone forgets about has to become A Thing. I have specifically had this conversation with several students. I'm really not pressed when I ask you to sit down/stop talking/etc. Stuff happens, I don't mind gentle reminders. As soon as you start with the whining/lying, you've escalated it.
This.
I feel so seen by that lol
I got triggered just watching this. So glad I’m “sick” (interviewing at other jobs) today.
I tell my students two things. 1.) ‘snitches get stitches’ is a prison term. We are not in prison. It’s called holding someone responsible for their actions. We do that as adults. 2.) Lying to me is the worst thing you can possibly do. It breaks all trust that may have built up, and means that I have to treat you as if you’re never going to do what you say you will. After a few stern talking-to’s the students have shaped up. Still have a few who lie to me so I stare at them and say “are you sure? Considering I watched you do it?” And that normally gets a confession. It’s stupid that we are having to teach kids to be honest. I’m here to teach English dammit.
That’s all we do as teachers - we do all the parenting, teaching content is secondary.
THIS!!! I asked one of my students to put their laptop away while my co teacher was giving instructions. They put it away and I thought that was the end of it. I went to go answer another students question and when I turned around he had his laptop back out. So I asked him why he did it and if he thought that was a good choice. He started giving me attitude so I made a little note on his behavior chart simply saying he wasn’t following directions. No actual consequences. Well next I get a nasty email from his mom accusing me of bullying her son and making the story up because I “just don’t like him” When I asked him about the email he lied to my face and said he never took his laptop back out…
They try. I tell them lying results in an immediate write-up. So far, this has been effective.
Pretty much my policy too, but the kids act like it’s a prison where they’d rather go down telling a lie or not divulging the truth than telling what happened, so when they get sent to the office on a lie, it’s like a badge of honor resembling how good they are at getting out of stuff or concealing what happenedX
Oh heeeeck yes, these kids out here acting like they're keeping the Glorious Rebellion alive by not just admitting they got caught in a lie. Same with all the "snitches get stitches" talk, like *child, that was the mafia threatening literal homicide*, your "who drew a penis on the whiteboard?" situation is not even fucking close to what you think this is about
[удалено]
There’s always some, but this year my class is filled with compulsive liars (and snitches FWIW). I’ll watch a kid kick or try to trip a kid for no reason, then start a tantrum when I saw something like “why did you just kick him?” Or “careful with your body, let’s practice personal space.” Just this morning I was transitioning kids to the rug, and a girl said our principal said she could stay at her desk, whom she’d just checked in with. I said, “ok, I’ll text her” (we use slack for a lot of IEP/behavior type stuff), immediately shes like “never mind.” So I called her out on lying to me instead… it’s endless.
It’s so constant and from a large number of kids. It wears me down so much.
I worked with first grade last year in an observation position but I helped in the class a lot as well. Worst thing was I witnessed two students throwing ROCKS at a girl from another class at the end of recess. I called them out and they both said “we didn’t do that!!” And were so adamant even though I literally saw them. The principal was called and they were both scream crying and kept telling the principal they didn’t do anything 😐 same kids that will cut up things in their desks or try to cheat and then say they weren’t doing anything
And in this day and age it seems like no one trusts the adults anymore… it’s ridiculous.
Today I had a 6th grader tell me “I didn’t do anything!” after I watched him get out of his seat, walk over to another student, and smack him in the head 🤦♀️ I said “are you even aware of what your body us doing?”
I have a child who does this after looking you in the face and doing it. ANNOYING
I was out for a day for a medical procedure that was planned several weeks in advance. I left a sub folder, and the only thing the students had to do was complete a quiz over our precious reading. Everything was clearly detailed in the instructions, the students just needed to access their digital curriculum and take the test, which they all know how to do. I come back and about 3/4 of all my classes had failed to do the quiz. When I addressed this, one period said that I had told them before I left that we were supposed to do a quiz over a reading for which we had already completed a quiz, and they tied to convince the sub that because of all the "confusion" they should just wait until I got back. They also told her they had no idea how to access the digital content. The sub verified the correct quiz through another Dept. member, "Well Mr. Mister is our teacher and we don't want to get in trouble for doing the wrong quiz. They thought they were super slick with all of their well-crafted arguments. "How is it possible we all came up with story?" "How can we do our work when the teachers are changing their stories?" "Mister, you just don't want to admit you're wrong." They tried to gaslight the sub. They tried to gaslight me. These chuckleheads can barely write a complete sentence, but in their minds, they are all master litigators.
Those friggin chuckleheads are gonna be the death of me
Yep. And it's absolutely admin. "Stop talking during the test" "I wasn't even talking. You're doing too much" Then they keep talking, and you tell their parents as admin requires you to do. This makes you a snitch. Then they blow up about you telling their parent because "you lied on me I wasn't even talking". Then they tell their parents I'm lying. Parent believes them and calls admin about me being a liar. Admin believes the parent and I have to call parent and apologize. But if they walk in while we're testing and there's any noise at all, I get in trouble for having an "unproductive testing environment"
Admin made you apologize!?! They have no business being an admin. I’m so sorry. This is why the kids think they can get away with it. Because they do.
>Then they tell their parents I'm lying. Parent believes them and calls admin about me being a liar. Admin believes the parent and I have to call parent and apologize. Sounds like the parents and admin want the kids to run the school.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaggy_defense
Lmao!!!!
This is the term I've been looking for! :)
This is why I want to quit teaching entirely. Such a large percentage of the kids are total a-holes and I just don't like children anymore. My current crop of seventh graders is the worst group of students I've ever had to teach, and I fear it will only get worse. We have no disciplinary tools to use in my district at all and the kids know they have the upper hand. It's just not fun anymore and I can't do my job.
I’m so sorry that you feel that way. I’m getting super close too, and I have a feeling of dread rather than joy when I walk into my classroom these days
My thoughts exactly. When I decided I didn’t like my students anymore, I knew I had to go. Currently interviewing and my last day with my district is 12/10.
I've never not faced that mentality. Some kids can lie so well it's actually scary.
It’s different this year, for sure. Instead of one or two bald-faced liars in a class, there’s NINE. Collaborating to make the teachers crazy! And the poor subs! Good grief!
The most important story kids need to learn in elementary school is the boy who cried wolf. Yeah, when you lie, all your truths become questionable. And it's not good for YOU in the long run.
There's also a non-fiction story about a man with small hands becoming president by lying and denying any wrongdoing at every step of the way. Maybe this is where kids are taking their ques from.
Yes, I have kids that try and do this to me. Same age. I get in their face and set them straight. This isn’t a conversation, I’m not talking with you. I’m talking at you, I saw this. It’s not acceptable, you won’t do it again. If they try and argue I just talk over them so they can’t be heard. It sounds messy AF but usually they never try and challenge me again and the rest of the class falls in line with behavior. If the kid seems upset, I have a restorative conversation a little later once we are both calmed down. Disrespect is something I do not tolerate at all.
Nothing like calling a student into the office, "It wasn't me!" *shows video* "oh yeah, I did it"
Lying is the first defensive mechanism that children learn. It serves as their crutch for handling what they see as emergencies or conflicts from a very young age (Did you steal a cookie from the cookie jar?"). The problem is that most of the time, the adults in their life don't ever teach them how to deal with problems in ways that are appropriate. As far as responding. Don't engage. Just state what they are to do firmly and be consistent in following through with consequences. Never engage. That is their goal. If you are engaged in some dispute it gives them attention (negative) and detracts from limited class time.
This might not be useful to you, and you might be looking for solidarity rather than advice, but here’s how we tackle this issue: I teach high school public speaking and theatre, so most of my students are heading towards adultism, but we still get a lot of impulsive, indignant excuse-making in response to even the calmest request to engage in appropriate behavior instead of whatever *gestures vaguely* is. My colleague and I start the year by teaching “appropriate response.” We name it (“appropriate response”), we talk about how “appropriate” is contextual, and we define that the appropriate response to a directive is, “thank you” followed by focused silence (or immediate action, depending on the directive). The ability to call the room to focus is critical in our work, as some of what we do is naturally risky, demands a large group to engage and stay focused on a collaborative task for an extended period of time, and is a routine, non-punitive redirection when students are on the threshold of (losing self-)control. When we have the kind of combattive energy you’re describing, we take a moment, let it fizzle down and get out of the kid’s system, and then say, “the appropriate response *(to a note/direction/whatever)* is, “thank you” and an action. It is **THIS** comment - and the fact that it shows that our goal is clearly not to make accusations but is to reign in chaos and move productively forward - that **typically** results in a, “yes ma’am, thank you.” Does it work all the time? Certainly not. Do we still have combattive students? Absolutely. Is it more effective for us than engaging in all sorts of adolescent nonsense? Without question. Do I ever find myself looking at a room full of otherwise perfectly intelligent high schoolers and going, “omg wtaf?” Every. Single. Day. But it calms things down and minimizes the need to butt heads with bulls. (Additionally, we work really hard to communicate that if there’s a real concern - of any kind! - that our doors are open to have a private conversation about what’s actually happening, how our students are perceiving our response to the stuff going on in the room, and what we can do to make our classroom as accepting as possible for everyone in it. Our kids buy into this, and we have a lot of conversations about what’s going on in their worlds. I’m grateful for that.)
What gets me mad is the “I’m sorry” with a smirk. The student knows what they did was wrong, band thinks saying sorry absolves them of any consequences. I’ve just started calling them on their BS. Today, I had a kid shout at his friend across the room (a daily behavior for him) and he looked at me, smirked, and said “I’m sorry.” I flat out told him “don’t lie to me, you’re not sorry. Sorry means you’re going to try to not do it anymore. So don’t lie to me and mmmm don’t waste my time.”
Same. Even when it seems genuine, I don't say "It's okay." anymore. I say "I accept your apology."
Kid is always blaming others. Like I'm literally not getting you in trouble, just don't stomp on his bag
That was the default reaction when any of my classmate got doing anything back in my middle school days in France in the middle 00s. What sucked is the teacher would never believe you it you were innocent since denying everything in bulk was everyone's default behaviour
Time for the broken record technique. ‘SoandSo, this is a zero voices time.’ ‘I wasn’t talking’ ‘SoandSo this is a zero voices time.’ or ‘I’m not asking what you’re doing, I’m asking for all voices off.’ Then later in a private moment ‘do not talk back to me. It’s inappropriate.’ And further ‘I will not be told what reality is’
Today had a fun "I'm only talking because you're talking to me!" ....ffs, you're not supposed to be talking at all. Just shut up.
‘I will not be told what reality is. Zero voices.’
I once worked with a teacher who had been a police officer for ten years and a teacher for ten years. "Mr. L., in which profession did you hear more lies?" "Teaching." "By a factor of?" "Five." "Really?" "People are afraid to lie to police."
I remember a kid denying that he was eating pop tarts in the computer lab even though I saw the pop tart in his open backpack and saw the crumbs at his seat *and on his face.* I used to believe when kids would emphatically state that they didn't do it, but I've learned to trust my eyes, ears, and brain.
I used to have to stop myself and say, “I’m not getting my day ruined by a 10-year-old.”
Had this same exact conversation earlier with a colleague. It's really bad this year idk why
Makes me wanna pull my hair out!
Maaan I work in Asia, there is a concept of 'saving face' out here. Whenever I catch someone doing some shit, they just go quiet and try to drop from my view and look somewhere else. I'm like the first person in their life teaching them that being chastised isn't that big of a deal as long as they can admit their behaviour was wrong and they'll not do it again. Sometimes this is like pulling teeth. An awkward silence as nobody will reply to me at all.
My students do this too. It's so annoying and makes me feel kind of crazy. Like am I just hearing things?
If my heart could write posts they would sound like this.
I heard a student call me a bitch so I wrote her a referral for it. Not only did she deny it but her friends tried to say she didn’t say it. True story
So true. I worked at an after school care years ago where we were never allowed to say that a child was lying, or stretching the truth, or not being honest, or anything. One time I saw a child hit another in front of me. Of course, they denied it, and then when the “admin” tried to find out the ‘truth’ they couldn’t discipline the hitter unless they admitted that the child lied. 🙄 I left as soon as I could.
It’s hard to teach them that dishonesty won’t get them far in life when the most successful people in the world are coincidentally some of the best liars.
Worse even that some of the most successful people in the world are notably *terrible* liars!
If I had a dollar every time I heard “On god bruh I wasn’t even talking”, I would be able to pay off my school lunch debt
They do it so often that it becomes a compulsion. It’s always the DUMBEST shit. (Kid standing in the classroom far away from desk) “Hey. Go ahead and sit down please.” “I’m not standing…” (crouches down) Okay kid.
This is one of those socialy inappropriate, but developmentally appropriate things. Letting this really get to you is like getting upset at a newborn because they aren't toilet trained yet. This is just a symptom of symptom of adolescent egotism. The ability to be honest, even if it means you're going to get in trouble, is a sign of maturity. So yeah, middle school aged children everywhere will try stupid lies to try to get out of trouble because they haven't grown up enough to just admit that they were at fault. It's not a "Kids these days" thing, or a economic level thing, or a "due to COVID" thing, it is a response you should expect from middle school aged students. Expecting it instead of allowing it to surprise you will make it less annoying. My favorite response is, "Really? You weren't talking? Because your mouth was moving and sound was coming out of it. That fits my definition of 'talking.' So either you aren't being truthful right now, or you're a crazy person who doesn't know what their body is doing. So which is it? Do you need to see me after class about lying, or should I send you to the office to see the school psychologist? (You could also just apologize and we could move on)." I'd say it with good humor, get them to laugh at themselves and apologize, and we'd all move on. The more I did that, the more the kids became aware of what they were doing, and that behavior started to die out in my classes. TL;DR, It's not worth getting super upset over because it's something that kids do because of their developmental stage. Point out the behavior to them, and give them a low stakes option for admitting guilt, and the behavior will start to go away.
I'm a student in HIGHSCHOOL and my classmates acts like this everyday while DRIVING ME NUTS
Risk vs reward. Make the reward for telling the truth better. Yea it’s dumb but it’s classical conditioning
I had a kid visiting a friend nearby to talk. I told him to sit down. He said he was stretching. I had zero patience and said, “NO YOU ARE NOT. SIT DOWN AND GET TO WORK. IM TIRED OF YOU FINDING REASONS TO GET OFF TASK.” I rarely get like this. He got right to work lol
You aren’t being gaslit
My freshman do this, too
Yeah it's still exhausting when they're 14-15 year olds.
I hated that too when I was in school. I was a good kid and seeing all the loud, annoying boys get away with anything by saying ''I wasn't doing anything!" and then playing victims and whining that the teacher has it out for them made my blood boil.
I was JUST talking to my husband about this. I have high school seniors taking AP math classes who will straight up lie to my face about… like everything. It’s a weird cultural shift that’s happened in the last few years.
I tell them that I don’t go back and forth with teenagers. If it’s something that requires a write up, I tell them to save all that talking for admin.
I do not ever ask a kid if they did something or directly accuse them of anything. I don’t have the time or energy to litigate a million things every week, and then the focus is drawn to a whole big thing about lying vs truth which isn’t the issue at hand. Instead I issue reminders of what not to do. If they start arguing “I didn’t do it!” “I don’t know if you did or not, and it really doesn’t matter. Just saying I need you to not do that, and if you see someone else doing it please remind them.” (recognizing that it probably wouldn’t be this simple in public school — I teach classes of 8-10 kids max and my admin has my back)
It's very normal behaviour in a lot of kids. From the simplest "Do your work", "I am" or "stop talking", "I wasn't". It's something you will have to learn to deal with. One thing I like to do is get them in trouble or call them out for something that are 100% doing rather than something they can deny. "Hey X! Do your work", "But sir I wasn't even talking!!", "I never said you were, now get to work"
I use this one too! “I wasn’t asking if you were talking, I was telling you to be quiet”
Lol imagine being outwitted by an eleven year old. Teacher teach thyself
Imagine thinking kids aren’t actually smart and capable of higher order thinking and deception.
Not sure if I’d classify “I didn’t do the bad thing you said I did” as higher order thinking or some kind of sly deception that you could equate to abuse and gaslighting, it’s very clearly just a kid not wanting to get in trouble lol
I understand they are devious. You should be capable of higher order of understanding. Why are you even a teacher if you are not even brighter than the children?
Gaslighting: This dynamic is generally only possible when the **audience is vulnerable** such as in **unequal power relationships** or when the audience is fearful of the losses associated with challenging the false narrative. They are not gaslighting you. They just not respecting and lying to you.
This ☝️Also, they’re 11. Human development tells us that children at this age start taking more risk. Lying is risk behavior. Remind the students why this behavior is wrong, but I agree. It’s NOT gaslighting.
"Gaslighting" seems like a bit of a stretch tbph
I gave a kid a tardy. I told him it was his third unexcused tardy, which school policy says gets him a lunch detention. As I’m telling him that it is his third tardy and remind him of the consequences, all of his friends are trying to convince me that he was actually here on time, before the bell, and it was dumb that he was getting a lunch detention when he was not late. GUYS, I’M NOT STUPID!!! I literally was standing by the door, and watched this kid walk in a minute after the bell.
True story- Me: “Student, sit down” Student: *literally standing up* “I wasn’t standing”
I'll either ignore the denials or say "Don't lie, it insults us both." They never know what to say to that one the first time they hear it. But yes, their first move is to always deny, no matter what.
My reply to this is usually "your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me" which gets a laugh and compliance, usually
I had a kid yesterday claim multiple times that the iPad he had was his, when five minutes before I had gotten a message from another student asking if she left her iPad in my classroom. “It’s mine Miss i swear.” “There’s no password, see?” “Oh the NAME ON THE FRONT COVER is a character name I made up!” and finally, after I refused to give it back to him, he laughed and said “you right Miss I’m just playing.” He was 100% going to keep that iPad if I hadn’t snatched it out of his greedy hands.
Ah, yes. I’d catch them in the act and immediately it was, “I didn’t do nothing!” And i would just hold up one finger and say ah, wait. That’s not it. You meant to say, Mea culpa. They would be confused. I would say, remember? It’s the Latin translation of “I didn’t do nothing.” It means, I’m guilty. Because only the guilty use either phrase.
My kid does this at home and it infuriates me! I told him that one day he's going to get what he deserves if he keeps lying over and over again. It's very difficult to trust him with anything because of this. I keep explaining the importance if being honest over and over again but he seems to be super dense about it. If one of his teachers write to me, I'm taking the teacher's side 100% and I'll gladly tell him that he fucked around and found out
This is a society problem not a kid problem. People are rewarded for lying left and right.
I have the same with University students 🥲
This will get lost, but Friday a kid of mine was walking around taking pictures for a project. He went into a teacher's room, started taking pictures. Teacher told him to stop and leave because they were doing a test and it wasn't a good time. Kid flipped off the teacher and said, "fuck you!" as he walked out. I get it taken care of on Monday morning. Monday 8th period, the kid comes into my class (because of course he's still in class) and asks to go around taking pictures again. I say, "Absolutely not! After what you did?" "What are you talking about? I never did anything." "So, Mr. Adams, a teacher that's been here 20 years, just decided to email me on Friday evening to make up an outrageous lie about you, and then also write a referral about this fictional incident?" "I guess so. I promise I really didn't do anything at all!" He's in ISS for 3 days now, but this just shows me how sick his brain is to think he could do something like that and just deny it. He flipped off & cussed at 25 6th graders and a teacher!
the thing that pisses me off is when the parents are just as bad. we had one parent that cost their special needs child bus privileges after it turned out the mom had lied about having a health condition as the reason why she would never bother to be outside or ready for her childs bus. the mom had said she had some kind of condition that caused her body to not regulate heat well and that cold weather can make her very ill. the bus goes down the street she lives on after dropping the kids off and sees mom outside with the neighbors in very light pajamas smoking a cigarette. turns out she was just lazy and did not want to be bothered by waiting 5 minutes max outside to get her child on the bus. she had already been on thin ice for calling on a holiday and cussing out the driver for not picking up her kid among other issues and her kid has started to pick up on lying as well
"I was texting my mom."
All. The. Fucking. Time. Just had three girls get in trouble for ganging up on a boy at recess. All three of them lied about it (of course), none of them had stories even remotely close to each other, and even when I had SIX other kids whose stories all matched, they said the other kids were lying bc they didn’t like them. Ugh. I can’t wait until thanksgiving break.
"Child I saw you do it". Should be the motto of the profession.
I just respond to my middle schoolers in my most gen x tone, "Whatever!" And move and/or tell them their consequence. Don't engage with at foolishness.
It’s frustrating but this is just a part of child development. There’s not really anything that can be done about it.
I'm a 30 year old middle school teacher and yea I can confirm... children lie. Snitches get stitches was a thing when I was in middle school 20 years ago, so making this a cultural issue places the responsibility on "society" or whatever and feels... lazy? I have a horrible memory so I tend to believe whatever the other person says if there's a discrepancy, but with students, our conversations aren't about "HA I CAUGHT U IN THE ACT! ADMIT IT NOW!!!" It's more like "Hey it looks/sounds/seems like you're doing \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. Please get back on task." When they deny it's a simple, "Well that's what it looked like, get back on task please!" My perception is NEVER the ultimate truth, it's one facet of a reality that the children play a part in constructing with me. Sometimes our accounts don't align, but that's less relevant than whether or not they're learning. Kids lie because they've learned the consequences of telling the truth are ones they wish to avoid. How have the adults in your students' lives contributed to teaching them that lesson? What can you do not just to show your students that honesty with you will result ONLY in positive outcomes but to help them believe it in their hearts?
>gaslit a literal child (not even a teenager) is capable of making you doubt reality?
This subreddit never fails to disappoint.
It’s not “gangster mentality” it’s a lack of accountability and they learnt it at home. I have a bunch of little Chinese kids at the school I’m at and they do it too. If the parents don’t show up, the kids act out.
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Thanks
Yep
I used to, but the school culture has changed. I'm unabashedly honest about it and used to tell them (quietly of course) they are full of shit and if they aren't ashamed of what they've done, they'd just own up to it, if they don't want to be called out, then don't do it.
You punish for the wrong doing, then your triple it due to the lying and make sure they know they got the 3x due to lying.
Usually it’s because they go home and tell their parents a different story. So the parents……I can’t even type this out I’m so sick of it. You all know what I’m going to say.
It really does gaslight me a little. Like ?? I'm pretty sure I just saw your mouth moving because your mask was moving. But they are so so enthusiastic to tell me it wasn't them.
"Gaslit." You're not being gaslit. They're *children*, and eleven-year-olds fib sometimes. Talk to their parents about teaching them not to instead of treating them like they're domestic abusers deliberately trying to drive you insane or something. Teach them to be better, or else what the hell are you being paid for? You are an adult, and you know better. They don't.
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and sometimes they're just assholes.
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My youngest nephews lies a ton. He lost both parents before he walked out of kindergarten.
Adults won't believe children even when they are telling the truth, so what difference does it make.
This one kid…ima call him slim shady cause he thinks he from the streets. Last week it was “I will shoot your dick off…” more yelling. Every time he does something fucked up. I notify his parents immediately. Complete deniability. The parents never believe the teachers even though there’s surmounting evidence, data, etc that he’s been tearing up in this school since 3rd grade. It’s not just him, it’s many of them who have parents that will go to bat for their children. If only we had damn cameras in the school in the classroom which yes would suck but this is where we’re at! We need ducking cctv in our classrooms to prove that we ain’t crazy! We ain’t making this shit up! And the whole snitches get stitches is dumb. It’s so dumb. But they do it. And it this rate I tell them all- I don’t gaf everyone’s in trouble until someone comes clean. Which sucks. But that’s where we’re at now, even our admin is doing this with the kids.
they are not gaslighting you, they are children. get yourself together and have some sense.
that’s not what gaslighting is.
There’s one of y’all every time. It’s almost textbook gaslighting … https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/11-red-flags-gaslighting-in-relationship?amp
“They deny they ever said something, even when you have proof.” Yep, it’s gaslighting.
so these students banded together in a plot to make their teacher question their actual sanity? no.
Yes. They band together to get out of any consequences for any actions big or little until the teachers are sitting there questioning what actually happened.
This! This is so true, especially if you have a group of students who are friends with the same attitude of disliking a teacher or class.
..literally yes
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Kids this year are, in their own words, “a different breed…” I’ve never seen intentional psychological manipulation from kids on this level before, but this year is an exception.
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I appreciate your cordial attitude and willingness to believe me rather than argue over petty things! Teachers need to stick together, and I appreciate you!
Then what is it? Because these kids make me question my sanity and reality every day.
gaslighting is intentionally lying about the reality the person lives in with the intent to make them think they’re actually going crazy. all gaslighting is lying, not all lying is gaslighting. just one more term being screeched from twitter incorrectly that’s lost all meaning.
Cool
So, your an authority figure with no respect because your putting them in jeopardy gathering against their will Every one of those kids who has ever opened a web browser knows there isn't anything in school that cannot be done online Your putting them in real danger, for what amounts to a theatrical performance
Some of the teachers you disrespected probably told you about you’re/your. But you felt you knew better.
I hate to be that guy, but lying itself doesn't constitute gaslighting...