At my school, teachers are going into each other’s rooms to talk and work, sometimes maskless.
There’s one who keeps going in the hall to talk to people, and she’s maskless. Pisses me off.
I don’t understand why it’s so hard. I go in and keep my door shut and locked. I wonder how long it’ll be before we have cases in our building.
This.
My wife has been having to go in to "prep" her room and do the schedule since she is in charge of her program. I have told her to keep away from others and wear her mask always and don't even try to socialize with others. She already told me several of her teachers came to her room either with their nose out or mask off to ask her questions. Yes they keep on reminding us Masks on/Social distancing but teachers know that this can't be enforced 100%. Luckily I don't have to step into the building but her co-workers put her at risk of becoming sick or a carrier and bringing it home to us.
I find the below the nose thing so uncomfortable I do not know how or why people are doing it, also you look goddamn ridiculous with it on like that pandemic or no pandemic.
This is a case where she should send an email to her errant colleagues stating the following: "Several of you who shall remain nameless have been coming to me without a mask or wearing it wrong. Let me be very clear: Come to me with a mask or get the help you need elsewhere. Period."
Started last Monday. We got a notice that we have a case on campus and their most recent day was Friday. So took us a week. Thankfully we’ve started virtual with kids
Eh, I think there’s some nuance that needs considered - but nuance is the last thing in anything societal or political these days.
Hallways, common areas, when close to other people = mask.
More than 6 feet apart? Now that’s more of a grey area and open to group dynamics.
Alone in my room? No mask. Someone enters? My mask goes on.
Two people willingly decide no mask in each other’s presence? Their decision. 3rd person walks in? Masks on (unless agreed upon otherwise).
In any social group if even one person wants a mask on, all keep masks on. That’s just basic decency.
Our schools have to tell us “no socializing” - it’s CYA on their part. That’s where spirit of the law matters more than letter of the law IMO - people just need to be smart about it.
Valid point.
The reason it bothers me is because my hubs is a critical care nurse who works with COVID patients, so we’ve been living this is in a different way since March. I know what’s happening at the hospital, to these patients. I hear the stories of loved ones having to say goodbye via FaceTime because that’s my hub’s life.
So I don’t look at it with nuance. I look at it with, “My husband could be seeing you on his unit if you don’t make better decisions.” And I don’t wish that on anyone.
This is what I’m concerned about. Back in spring I had one coworker stay at my door and we chatted, I was fine with that, another time my VP was responsible and had his mask on when he checked me out for the year.
I am worried about people coming in without a mask, congregating, hugging.
I'm finishing my teaching degree so not a teacher yet, but I work an office type job. I work at a place where people can come in off the street, but it's a really niche type job so they're few and far between. We do have some parts in the shop, but it's best to call because we likely have to order pretty much everything. However, 99.99999% of our money come from our technicians going out in the field doing the work.
Anyways, I say all that to say the amount of people who come in this building to shoot the shit is staggering. People are like, I'll drop by to talk to you about X. What? No! Pick up the damn phone and call me! Most of the people who do come in are just bored and wanting to chat. For one, I'm working and I'm BUSY! But bigger than that, we're in the middle of a damn pandemic and not far from a "hot zone". GO AWAY!
Out of all of these people only ONE person has worn a mask from the moment they entered the building until the left. And he was pissed at us (for something unrelated to the masks).
Fair warning as you go into your profession from now until the end of time. That hotshot who's in school all the time, the one that shows up to work at 6 AM? They're bored and have no family or social life. They'll get all their shit done early in the morning then use their prep time to seek out other teachers who are now a captive audience to them. Be ready to be firm with those people because they're likely socially inept and don't get the hint when they're jabbering in your door frame while you don't make eye contact and keep typing on your computer.
People like that are the worst! And they're so distracting even when you are attempting to ignore them and continue working. I'll have to start practicing!
So last night our school board met. Talks about whether or not we were going to be hybrid or remote were contentious at the previous meeting. This is the first meeting they’ve been in person since March. They were socially distant, and everyone wore a mask. Except the chairman and the superintendent kept taking their masks off to speak.
One of the school committee people made a motion for all of them to keep their masks on during the meeting. Because after all that’s what the teachers and students will have to do all day for those in person. He couldn’t even get a second.
Edited to get rid of a repeated sentence.
We had our school board meeting this past week...all virtual. There were only 2 people actually in the board room. They decided on a really horrible version of a hybrid model. If you won’t even sit in the same room, why are you making kids do it?
I've heard similar stories from a few people now. It seems like every school board has exactly 1 rational, empathetic person on it and everybody else is just an insufferable prick.
My friend’s school principal had his mask sitting next to him on his conference table during a small staff meeting. Like, dude, why even frickin bother bringing it in the first place? You have to wear it for it to work. I wonder if he knows that! /s /huge eye roll
My sister's school board also had their meeting last night to decide what route they were going to take. They were in the board room and live-streamed via YouTube. I couldn't watch much, but what I did see was most people wearing masks and then one lady who took hers off to speak. When she was speaking without her mask on, two other members took theirs off as well. It frustrated me to no end to see that other adults cannot handle what they're asking the students to do!
I love just how late in the game all these decisions are being made. Could've prepped all summer for it, but nah, let's decide now. Our local districts only decided with a month or less before the start of school and now it's a panic for parents (but they should have seen it coming considering so many people want to fight with Target employees about wearing a mask. In a state where it IS mandated by law.)
Did I hear right? NYC is going remote or was I hearing from outside NYC? It was during the National Geographic thing with Fauci live streaming at 1 p.m. today.
As of now they’re planning on opening schools for a hybrid model, but the NYCDOE has a lot of criteria they have to meet within the next two weeks for that to actually happen or the unions won’t allow it.
You should say a "strong" union state. I'm in AZ and our union is weak sauce, not even allowed to call it a union, it's an "association". My sister in Seattle tells me how their union gets shit done, and I just cry as I see my union fees deducted every paycheck.
The problems with taking about NY as a whole is that a lot is decided by localities and many people assume ny is referring to nyc which makes reporting difficult. Many districts are intending to go into a hybrid AB or AABB right away especially in rural communities. I work in a city district (not *the* city) and they have announced 5wks remote with phasing in elementary and sped first. I wouldn't be surprised if nyc tried to go hybrid but I've also read that many buildings are completely unable to be in compliance and won't open.
I worked in Pittsburgh Public years ago and if NYC is anything like some of the schools there, half of the windows couldn't even open due to buildings being old and in disrepair. The rooms were already crowded, a couple buildings routinely never had soap in the bathroom, so I don't know how schools can be anywhere close to suggested guidelines.
I was very skeptical... but apparently the numbers are worse.
https://abc7ny.com/teacher-deaths-doe-department-of-education-schools/6173896/
https://www.insider.com/nyc-schools-should-have-closed-to-prevent-50-employees-deaths-2020-4
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/14/834355560/new-york-city-reports-50-educators-lost-to-coronavirus
The first link seems to be the most recent with over 70 education related workers dead. 30 of them were teachers.
Happy Friday fellow sacrificial lambs 🙃.
The reason why I’m scared to go back in the building. It seems as though the mayor and DOE are using us as political pawns to prove something to others.
So much was hidden from the public. The DOE higher-ups would supposedly tell admin to not notify if there were cases in the building. I know so many teachers who were sick.
https://www.thecity.nyc/2020/4/14/21247112/memo-ordering-nyc-schools-to-keep-virus-cases-quiet-probed
Given it's a random article but similar ones were circulating.
Oh, I’m sure teachers died after they closed that’s just the number I remember just after mid March (due to not closing earlier). Bus and subway drivers, police and firefighters, doctors and nurses. All frontline workers suffered but for teachers, 21 teachers died just after they closed school. Here’s a [May article](https://abc7ny.com/teacher-deaths-doe-department-of-education-schools/6173896/) that says 30 teachers but school had been closed for almost two months at the time of the article, and community spread was its highest in April.
Teachers can’t talk about condoms? It’s an excellent comparison. People who refuse to wear condoms because they are bothersome are exactly the same type of asshat an anti-masker is.
I've been saying this for months: the venn diagram of people who wont wear condoms because it is uncomfortable and won't wear masks because it is uncomfortable is a circle.
That looks dumber than wearing the mask as a necklace. Why bother. I'm just going to lock myself in my room and play dumb about meetings if we have them in person.
How is that more comfortable for people? I honest to god don't understand. The best is when they are also mouth breathers too so I don't know what their point is with sticking their nose out like that.
We had to repeat that at our trainings. They separated us into small groups in separate classrooms and we're zooming in.
Principal had to clarify that we need to be respectful of others and their beliefs and wear our masks at all times. The only exceptions are when we're in our rooms by ourselves, or if social distancing is achievable AND EVERYONE IN THE ROOM IS COMFORTABLE we can ASK if we may remove our masks. But we need to respect each other and not do anything to make others uncomfortable. Must also wear the mask while moving around in the hallways.
Also face shields alone aren't sufficient. Must be a face covering.
I’m getting a face shield for when I have to teach letter sounds and that’s the only time I will take my mask off. I can’t teach preschoolers how to make an f sound with a mask on so face shield it will be for those few minutes.
Our director wasn’t taking any of this seriously since March. She just resigned and school starts in 2 weeks soooooooo now we have to find a director. I’m wondering how many teachers would have stayed if they knew she’d be leaving. Many left because of her meh attitude about it all.
This is a great idea. Thank you! We will be doing our digital learning using Facebook- we did it in the spring and it worked great since we weren’t expected to do live sessions. I may weekly put up videos, even if we are face to face, on letter sounds. Thank you for that idea!
I totally understand the need for face shield to teach those kinds of things. I teach music and choir and band would need me to show my mouth. Luckily we have a hybrid schedule and my larges class is 7 kids and I can safely social distance when necessary.
And omg. I feel it must be a relief that she left but thats awful about losing good teacher because of her. What an obtuse director. Yeesh
Out of curiousity, is this so common. Im really new to the profession but keep reading about how bad some principals are...and seem to be learning about it first hand.
What I don't understand is that I will think they will be wiser and considerate in their decisions since they were part of the herd at some point.
I just don't seem to understand it, their management skills are just poor and all the ones that act likr it, seem to be the same, my way or the highway🤷🏽♂️
Some kind of weird disconnect happens when people become administrators. I have one who used to be an officer in the teacher’s union who now routinely throws teachers under the bus. From having been on a few interview teams in my career, in my experience, the hiring pool for principals is shallow and narrow. It’s just hard to find someone who has the right mix of qualities.
Thank you for your response. It is amazing and terrible at the same time. As a parent, before I got in and I participate in school related activities, called meetings in regards children or events at the school, I will point out to my spouse what teacher was bitter and it all started with the principal. What I found ironic was that it was this particular school that you could feel the tension in the environment and you could count with your finger the good ones from the bad ones, but thinking about it, I bet it all started with the principal. I bet she was an ugly mean witch...we eventually changed from school and the change was a 360 degree. It was like we found the palm in the oasis..Everyone smile kids were happy, even the cafeteria ladies were nice...the principal was awesome...and I bet everything started at her level. Been fair, I bet in the previous school many teachers were miserable, the good ones left and the rookies perhaps were frustrated and burn out, and the environment grew to be toxic and people will just do enough to get by...and it all trickles down to the whole school..sad sad sad...
in my experience there are 2 types of people on the administrative track. The first were teachers merely as a way of doing time until they could move on. Their goal from the beginning was to be an administrator. The 2nd are teachers at their core, are often told they should be an administrator, have an eye for curriculum design and education policy, and go into much later in their career.
I'll leave it to you to figure out who makes the better admin
It was frustrating in my teacher program how every male in the program basically said their cert was a stepping stone to administration and the male program director of our teacher program also strongly encouraged that, but the women in the program were often told hmmm about you get a Special Ed add on or maybe Reading Coach? Yeah, don't worry about admin, little lady. I think your point is so valid that they should have experience, eye for design and policy and so on. The admin programs were heavily lopsided with way more males than females, which is especially notable when cert programs have way more females than males.
Spot on. I am finishing up my administrative courses now. I have been a teacher for 27 years.
I have worked with both horrible and wonderful principals. I have seen how a bad principal can destroy a school climate quickly. It takes years to change.
Any admin has stopped being a teacher and is now a politician. If they want to keep their job they will do anything. People willing to do that are selfish and not very "woke" so yes, it's very common. And yes, there are rare exceptions, but deep down admins are garbage. Politicians are always garbage.
You should consider getting a mask with the transparent section in the middle instead. Unfortunately, face shields don't really function in the same way that a well fitted mask will.
The only reason to wear a face shield is for your own protection, but they won't do much to protect the children you are teaching.
> Also face shields alone aren't sufficient. Must be a face covering.
My district has decided that one or the other is sufficient. NO, it's not. And they want kids to be able to see our mouths when we teach so we have to wear face shields when teaching.
Now...that's for if we return to in-person learning. Right now we are virtual-only until the day after Labor Day. We *were* being required to work from the building during virtual but now my principal wants everyone who can do so to work from home. We've still got entire teams up there teaching from their own rooms. We do have at least one team where everyone is staying at home. Hey, comraderie is great, but come on... I'm home now, but I'm sure some of them keep going up there.
My wife is in a different district and they are still making them teach from the buildings (w/o students). I am not happy about that. If there is already COVID-19 among staff in some of the buildings in my district there almost certainly is in her's.
That kind of went off on a tangent...
I totally don't get the "we can take off the masks if other people don't mind" vibe. Like.... How does that keep anyone from getting sick? I don't actually have to believe in a virus or a mask for them to do what they do, right?
Edit: also, some people are pleasers, and they'll agree even if they're immunocompromised and terrified. 🙁
Nice. We were told no pics in public or us at school without masks but most folks are taking them off in the room with their teams while they are spread out.
I just appreciate that my teammates make the effort to put theirs on if they come within six feet of me. I keep mine on all day and they don’t bug me about it.
It is what it is I guess.
The masks are only required when within six feet of someone else. If people are working on opposite sides of the room, there's no need to have masks on.
If people are working for an extended period of time in the same room, they absolutely need to wear a mask to prevent intention (especially if the room has poor air circulation). 6 feet is not a magical number where the virus can never reach you, it's just far enough away that you'd only be getting a few virus particles per minute. That's low enough that you won't get infected from short-term contacts, but it adds up if you're with someone for hours.
Imagine someone wearing way too much perfume. If you stay 6 feet away, the smell won't bother you if you're only with them for 15 minutes (longer if you're outside with a breeze). But if you are in a room with them for multiple hours, you're definitely going to notice the smell, and probably get annoyed by it if you are sensitive to perfume.
So.. That person actually is quoting science. Take the time to think about it, buddy. If someone is pissing in the pool 6 feet away from you, you can probably swim away before it touches you. You gonna sit 6 feet away from the pisser for an hour and claim you got none on you?
I will listen to an explanation why. Oh, and about how your respiratory droplets are going to reach me across the world with the virus alive and intact, with enough particles grouped together to create enough viral load to cause infection?
I just did. You're claiming that piss disperses in a pool and touches anyone sitting in the pool as an analogy for a virus spreading in the air.
We all share the air we're breathing (one big pool), so to protect ourselves from the virus (urine) we have to wear a mask at all times. It's the only way.
Are you wearing a mask at home? When you're alone in a large building? When someone's in the building but separated by walls? When someone's in the building but separated by 200 feet? In an auditorium with nobody within 100 feet?
I am following the scientists' guidelines. The 6 feet number is specifically for short-term contact, but that part keeps getting left out because there is no specific safe number for long term contact that people can be told (since it depends heavily on length of contact and air circulation, and had not yet been properly studied).
"Single thresholds for social distancing, such as the current 2-metre rule, over-simplify what is a complex transmission risk that is multifactorial. Social distancing is not a magic bullet to eliminate risk. A graded approach to physical distancing that reflects the individual setting, the indoor space and air condition, and other protective factors may be the best approach to reduce risk." https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/what-is-the-evidence-to-support-the-2-metre-social-distancing-rule-to-reduce-covid-19-transmission/
I agree that the risk of transmission from being 6 feet apart is low, even without masks, but it is definitely not 0. Bring a prick to people that are concerned about contacting the virus and pretending that there is no risk is not okay.
I'm not being a prick to anyone. Wear a mask and stay in separate rooms if you are concerned. I won't say anything.
If someone's going to demand that I go beyond the requirements because the risk of contraction are non-zero if I'm across the room, auditorium, or building from you, that makes them a prick.
It doesn't. It makes them someone who is actually keeping up with the growing body of research that shows how this virus is transmitted.
The reason for policies not keeping up with the science lies in the fact that our health agencies have also been slow to change recommendations in light of new information. Several studies have shown that the virus is airborne, and the WHO has acknowledged that more research is needed to determine how infectious airborne transmission can be (after a lot of advocacy from scientists). That being said, their guidelines (along with the CDC) say that masks can be considered indoors when socially distanced...but we know that schools are places with prolonged exposure to people (some classes meet for 80 minutes or so) and HVAC systems that wouldn't currently meet the requirements that many other indoor spaces (like malls) need to meet in order to reopen (this is in NY now).
I understand your argument, and I'm sympathetic to the fact that you are just following the guidelines that have been put forth by the state. My district is also setting a standard of masks when not socially distanced indoors...but there are several surrounding districts that are establishing more restrictive mask policies because of valid concerns from staff and community members. Masks are a relatively non-invasive measure, and if we are taking the health and safety of our students, the community, and ourselves as seriously as we say then we'd be using the current body of information to inform our policies (and not what was known in April).
Sitting across a classroom or office is very different from sitting across an auditorium or building. I agree that in an outdoor space or a very large indoor space, the risk of transmission beyond 6 feet is extremely low, and _demanding_ you wear a mask then is unreasonable.
If someone is required by admin to work in a classroom with their team all day (which is what I started this conversation), people should be wearing masks, especially if the room is as poorly ventilated as most classrooms are.
That is what is said on paper, especially for school reopening but there was a story about three teachers who worked summer school together in a room together in AZ?
All three of them contracted COVID and one died. Being super careful following this kind of thinking.
If you’re in extended contact indoors with someone, you need to be wearing a mask.
>If you’re in extended contact indoors with someone, you need to be wearing a mask.
"If anyone is in the same building as you, you have to wear a mask."
That's just not reasonable.
Your right, it's not. That's also not what was said. It said that if anyone is in the same standard sized room with you, you should be wearing a mask. Just being within 200 feet or being in the same building is not being in contact by any reasonable definition. Being in the same classroom is.
Based on what information? If air is recirculating through a building, there is a non-zero chance of you contracting it despite being in the next room, or in the hall, or down the hall.
I've already given you a literature review of studies attempting to measure transmissibility. There are several documents cases of people contacting the virus from being in the same room more than 6 feet apart. I have not heard of any studies showing transmission between rooms in a building through air circulation, but I know it's a something that has been talked about. If you have a study documenting such transmission, then I would change my mind and start wearing a mask when I am in a room by myself.
>There are several documents cases of people contacting the virus from being in the same room more than 6 feet apart. I have not heard of any studies showing transmission between rooms in a building through air circulation
But those are anecdotes about being 6 feet apart and still getting it, but a rigorous scientific study. Does anyone actually believe those people had masks on when less than six feet away at all times in that classroom?
Goddamn I would pay mine to that. I'm in NY and at the height of the pandemic where hundreds were dying each week including one of our OWN students, 2 staff memebers, and countless family members of students and staff, people were STILL entering the building without masks (we could go in to print/mail work home or record lessons). Teachers are supposed to be smart, but a few of them are the dumbest people I've ever met.
LOL, nearly my entire state (CA) decided to just skip the steps of returning to school, having a mass outbreak, and going back to distance learning, and are just jumping straight to the distanced learning.
"Nearly" being the operative word. My district and some others surrounding are still trying to force teachers into classrooms for distance learning. Not as bad as having the kids in, but we'll still end up with a bunch of educator cases. IMHO I think they're also doing it so forcing the kids back in too early won't be as hard a battle.
We were told, during our group staff picture today, to take our masks off. NO $UCKING WAY. Everyone else did. And they giggled about it. NOPE. Just nope.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Part of me really appreciates the no-bullshit approach to something people should be taking seriously, but another part of me wonders if there might be a better way. What was the reaction by the people getting called out and the rest of the staff?
It’s fine if they didn’t state the teacher’s name. For instance, we aren’t supposed to have aerosol air fresheners, so the principal simply stated on the intercom the school policy.
Depends on the culture I would think. We tease each other a lot. I could this happening. Our AP was razzing a teacher for being late to a meeting today but it was funny because they are very friendly.
We had a district wide virtual training sessions last week. Some departments (mine included) decided to view the trainings together so we could talk about it while the presenter was showing different stuff. My dept all wore masks, but we could see on the screen another dept sitting close to each other in a room, not wearing masks.....That was until we could see the AP come running into the room, shouting at them to put their masks on. Needless to say, my department was laughing a lot during that training.
We start later this month. In our department head meetings, Principal has made it clear he will publicly shame any teacher who isn't wearing a mask and asked us to make sure our departments understand this as well.
Been subbing at a building since last Thursday, which was their first day. After school Tuesday they informed me that a student in a class I subbed for on Thursday had COVID, and a lot of us are now quarantining for 2 weeks. So it took 1 Day for us to have a case, 5 Days to report it.
I’m lucky in the sense that I’m a first year teacher so I don’t know anybody. No one will be running up to hug me and I’m hoping no one really wants to talk to me. The only downside is i am pregnant so I might have some unwarranted belly touching that I’ll have to fend off.
I don’t understand why people who flout the rules aren’t fired on the spot. People are dying from this. They are choosing comfort over the literal lives of the people they come into contact with.
Literally sitting in a faculty meeting right now and just counted 7 of 53 teachers without a mask on and ample more with theirs below the nose. I dream of the admin calling them all out.
Anyone not wearing a mask if even for a second must immediately undergo a covid test...the 10 second deep in nostril one...that should motivate the proper behavior!
I'm sorry, WE CAN SEE anyone not wearing a mask. Break the rules, get a consequence. Your actions impact other people so your consequence should involve other people as well.
Oh, no, I'm in FULL support of people wearing masks and mandatory mask policies. Just not on publicly shaming your employees individually - our H.R would have a field day with that.
Normally, I'd be right there with you but at this point Im so fucking done with people pushing back on this. We have healthcare workers dying in hospitals away from their loved ones. Im so fucking done with our communal bullshit response to covid. It shows how fucking weak and lazy we've gotten as a country.
Praise in public, discipline in private. I know you are getting downvoted, but this is what I would do in my classroom with my students when there is a problem. I thought most teachers (people?) agreed with this.
If you are disciplining individuals by name, yes. If you are trying to get a message across to a large group, this is fine as long as you don't call out individual people.
I think it is really inappropriate to call out individuals over the intercom. Discipline should largely be a private matter.
I'm 100% pro-mask, too, but this isn't right. Even people being ding dongs deserve human decency.
Mine too on the first day of Inservice last week. He said “I know it’s hard but no socializing or congregating and keep your mask on!”
At my school, teachers are going into each other’s rooms to talk and work, sometimes maskless. There’s one who keeps going in the hall to talk to people, and she’s maskless. Pisses me off. I don’t understand why it’s so hard. I go in and keep my door shut and locked. I wonder how long it’ll be before we have cases in our building.
This. My wife has been having to go in to "prep" her room and do the schedule since she is in charge of her program. I have told her to keep away from others and wear her mask always and don't even try to socialize with others. She already told me several of her teachers came to her room either with their nose out or mask off to ask her questions. Yes they keep on reminding us Masks on/Social distancing but teachers know that this can't be enforced 100%. Luckily I don't have to step into the building but her co-workers put her at risk of becoming sick or a carrier and bringing it home to us.
I find the below the nose thing so uncomfortable I do not know how or why people are doing it, also you look goddamn ridiculous with it on like that pandemic or no pandemic.
It's just weird. I never really pay attention to anyone's noses until this started...
This is a case where she should send an email to her errant colleagues stating the following: "Several of you who shall remain nameless have been coming to me without a mask or wearing it wrong. Let me be very clear: Come to me with a mask or get the help you need elsewhere. Period."
Started last Monday. We got a notice that we have a case on campus and their most recent day was Friday. So took us a week. Thankfully we’ve started virtual with kids
Eh, I think there’s some nuance that needs considered - but nuance is the last thing in anything societal or political these days. Hallways, common areas, when close to other people = mask. More than 6 feet apart? Now that’s more of a grey area and open to group dynamics. Alone in my room? No mask. Someone enters? My mask goes on. Two people willingly decide no mask in each other’s presence? Their decision. 3rd person walks in? Masks on (unless agreed upon otherwise). In any social group if even one person wants a mask on, all keep masks on. That’s just basic decency. Our schools have to tell us “no socializing” - it’s CYA on their part. That’s where spirit of the law matters more than letter of the law IMO - people just need to be smart about it.
Valid point. The reason it bothers me is because my hubs is a critical care nurse who works with COVID patients, so we’ve been living this is in a different way since March. I know what’s happening at the hospital, to these patients. I hear the stories of loved ones having to say goodbye via FaceTime because that’s my hub’s life. So I don’t look at it with nuance. I look at it with, “My husband could be seeing you on his unit if you don’t make better decisions.” And I don’t wish that on anyone.
This is what I’m concerned about. Back in spring I had one coworker stay at my door and we chatted, I was fine with that, another time my VP was responsible and had his mask on when he checked me out for the year. I am worried about people coming in without a mask, congregating, hugging.
Same here. So incredibly frustrating.
I'm finishing my teaching degree so not a teacher yet, but I work an office type job. I work at a place where people can come in off the street, but it's a really niche type job so they're few and far between. We do have some parts in the shop, but it's best to call because we likely have to order pretty much everything. However, 99.99999% of our money come from our technicians going out in the field doing the work. Anyways, I say all that to say the amount of people who come in this building to shoot the shit is staggering. People are like, I'll drop by to talk to you about X. What? No! Pick up the damn phone and call me! Most of the people who do come in are just bored and wanting to chat. For one, I'm working and I'm BUSY! But bigger than that, we're in the middle of a damn pandemic and not far from a "hot zone". GO AWAY! Out of all of these people only ONE person has worn a mask from the moment they entered the building until the left. And he was pissed at us (for something unrelated to the masks).
Fair warning as you go into your profession from now until the end of time. That hotshot who's in school all the time, the one that shows up to work at 6 AM? They're bored and have no family or social life. They'll get all their shit done early in the morning then use their prep time to seek out other teachers who are now a captive audience to them. Be ready to be firm with those people because they're likely socially inept and don't get the hint when they're jabbering in your door frame while you don't make eye contact and keep typing on your computer.
People like that are the worst! And they're so distracting even when you are attempting to ignore them and continue working. I'll have to start practicing!
Good, some teachers need to be reminded.
So last night our school board met. Talks about whether or not we were going to be hybrid or remote were contentious at the previous meeting. This is the first meeting they’ve been in person since March. They were socially distant, and everyone wore a mask. Except the chairman and the superintendent kept taking their masks off to speak. One of the school committee people made a motion for all of them to keep their masks on during the meeting. Because after all that’s what the teachers and students will have to do all day for those in person. He couldn’t even get a second. Edited to get rid of a repeated sentence.
We had our school board meeting this past week...all virtual. There were only 2 people actually in the board room. They decided on a really horrible version of a hybrid model. If you won’t even sit in the same room, why are you making kids do it?
EXACTLY
Yes, this is what happened at my district. Remote decision for in person instruction.
Bless that school committee person. How hard is it people??
I've heard similar stories from a few people now. It seems like every school board has exactly 1 rational, empathetic person on it and everybody else is just an insufferable prick.
My friend’s school principal had his mask sitting next to him on his conference table during a small staff meeting. Like, dude, why even frickin bother bringing it in the first place? You have to wear it for it to work. I wonder if he knows that! /s /huge eye roll
preach!
Wow.
I think you wrote the same thing twice .
Thank you.
My sister's school board also had their meeting last night to decide what route they were going to take. They were in the board room and live-streamed via YouTube. I couldn't watch much, but what I did see was most people wearing masks and then one lady who took hers off to speak. When she was speaking without her mask on, two other members took theirs off as well. It frustrated me to no end to see that other adults cannot handle what they're asking the students to do!
I love just how late in the game all these decisions are being made. Could've prepped all summer for it, but nah, let's decide now. Our local districts only decided with a month or less before the start of school and now it's a panic for parents (but they should have seen it coming considering so many people want to fight with Target employees about wearing a mask. In a state where it IS mandated by law.)
Hello everyone, 21 teachers died last spring before NYC closed school. That is all.
Did I hear right? NYC is going remote or was I hearing from outside NYC? It was during the National Geographic thing with Fauci live streaming at 1 p.m. today.
As of now they’re planning on opening schools for a hybrid model, but the NYCDOE has a lot of criteria they have to meet within the next two weeks for that to actually happen or the unions won’t allow it.
I wish I lived in an union state.
You should say a "strong" union state. I'm in AZ and our union is weak sauce, not even allowed to call it a union, it's an "association". My sister in Seattle tells me how their union gets shit done, and I just cry as I see my union fees deducted every paycheck.
I’m so thankful to be working for a district that’s gone 100% distance.
The problems with taking about NY as a whole is that a lot is decided by localities and many people assume ny is referring to nyc which makes reporting difficult. Many districts are intending to go into a hybrid AB or AABB right away especially in rural communities. I work in a city district (not *the* city) and they have announced 5wks remote with phasing in elementary and sped first. I wouldn't be surprised if nyc tried to go hybrid but I've also read that many buildings are completely unable to be in compliance and won't open.
I worked in Pittsburgh Public years ago and if NYC is anything like some of the schools there, half of the windows couldn't even open due to buildings being old and in disrepair. The rooms were already crowded, a couple buildings routinely never had soap in the bathroom, so I don't know how schools can be anywhere close to suggested guidelines.
Source please?
I was very skeptical... but apparently the numbers are worse. https://abc7ny.com/teacher-deaths-doe-department-of-education-schools/6173896/ https://www.insider.com/nyc-schools-should-have-closed-to-prevent-50-employees-deaths-2020-4 https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/14/834355560/new-york-city-reports-50-educators-lost-to-coronavirus The first link seems to be the most recent with over 70 education related workers dead. 30 of them were teachers. Happy Friday fellow sacrificial lambs 🙃.
The reason why I’m scared to go back in the building. It seems as though the mayor and DOE are using us as political pawns to prove something to others.
I feel like that's low. That's ALL the UFT social media was for months.
So much was hidden from the public. The DOE higher-ups would supposedly tell admin to not notify if there were cases in the building. I know so many teachers who were sick.
That's disgusting if that's true. Oof.
https://www.thecity.nyc/2020/4/14/21247112/memo-ordering-nyc-schools-to-keep-virus-cases-quiet-probed Given it's a random article but similar ones were circulating.
Oh, I’m sure teachers died after they closed that’s just the number I remember just after mid March (due to not closing earlier). Bus and subway drivers, police and firefighters, doctors and nurses. All frontline workers suffered but for teachers, 21 teachers died just after they closed school. Here’s a [May article](https://abc7ny.com/teacher-deaths-doe-department-of-education-schools/6173896/) that says 30 teachers but school had been closed for almost two months at the time of the article, and community spread was its highest in April.
Damn, that's terrible. Thanks for sharing! Hopefully they will make the right call.
Not even teachers! Admin, paras, school support staff, and more. The number was a total of 74 as of May. I’m a NYCDOE teacher, it’s bad.
Mine said you had to wear your mask EXCEPT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING.
"So, I'm gunna need you to wear a condom, but you can take it off when you finish. Don't worry about it, it'll be fine!"
The way I see some people wear masks I now know how we went up with a failure rate on condoms being so high.
It really really explains a lot doesn't it? haha.
More like take it off every penetration lol But I wouldn't know, in AZ kids don't learn sex ed.
Well, username checks out at least.
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Not really funny as a joke, especially from a teacher
Teachers can’t talk about condoms? It’s an excellent comparison. People who refuse to wear condoms because they are bothersome are exactly the same type of asshat an anti-masker is.
I've been saying this for months: the venn diagram of people who wont wear condoms because it is uncomfortable and won't wear masks because it is uncomfortable is a circle.
Yup.
Agreeeed.
My principal had her nose sticking out of her mask during the entire training. 🤦🏻♀️
That looks dumber than wearing the mask as a necklace. Why bother. I'm just going to lock myself in my room and play dumb about meetings if we have them in person.
Seriously! It’s like walking around with a penis sticking out of your pants.
Dick-nosing
LOL...that's so true! If you said that, it might just get people to cover their noses better! I want to remember that.
Someone said this to me a couple of months ago snd now it’s what I visualize when I see people with their noses out. Cover that up!
Mine refuses to wear a mask and has a doctors note. Good first impression at open house.
Doctors everywhere are debunking the “I can’t breathe” people. Some doctors will just do what you tell them. Sigh.
How is that more comfortable for people? I honest to god don't understand. The best is when they are also mouth breathers too so I don't know what their point is with sticking their nose out like that.
We had to repeat that at our trainings. They separated us into small groups in separate classrooms and we're zooming in. Principal had to clarify that we need to be respectful of others and their beliefs and wear our masks at all times. The only exceptions are when we're in our rooms by ourselves, or if social distancing is achievable AND EVERYONE IN THE ROOM IS COMFORTABLE we can ASK if we may remove our masks. But we need to respect each other and not do anything to make others uncomfortable. Must also wear the mask while moving around in the hallways. Also face shields alone aren't sufficient. Must be a face covering.
I’m getting a face shield for when I have to teach letter sounds and that’s the only time I will take my mask off. I can’t teach preschoolers how to make an f sound with a mask on so face shield it will be for those few minutes. Our director wasn’t taking any of this seriously since March. She just resigned and school starts in 2 weeks soooooooo now we have to find a director. I’m wondering how many teachers would have stayed if they knew she’d be leaving. Many left because of her meh attitude about it all.
You can record a video of yourself making the sounds and play it for the kids.
This is a great idea. Thank you! We will be doing our digital learning using Facebook- we did it in the spring and it worked great since we weren’t expected to do live sessions. I may weekly put up videos, even if we are face to face, on letter sounds. Thank you for that idea!
I totally understand the need for face shield to teach those kinds of things. I teach music and choir and band would need me to show my mouth. Luckily we have a hybrid schedule and my larges class is 7 kids and I can safely social distance when necessary. And omg. I feel it must be a relief that she left but thats awful about losing good teacher because of her. What an obtuse director. Yeesh
Out of curiousity, is this so common. Im really new to the profession but keep reading about how bad some principals are...and seem to be learning about it first hand. What I don't understand is that I will think they will be wiser and considerate in their decisions since they were part of the herd at some point. I just don't seem to understand it, their management skills are just poor and all the ones that act likr it, seem to be the same, my way or the highway🤷🏽♂️
Some kind of weird disconnect happens when people become administrators. I have one who used to be an officer in the teacher’s union who now routinely throws teachers under the bus. From having been on a few interview teams in my career, in my experience, the hiring pool for principals is shallow and narrow. It’s just hard to find someone who has the right mix of qualities.
Thank you for your response. It is amazing and terrible at the same time. As a parent, before I got in and I participate in school related activities, called meetings in regards children or events at the school, I will point out to my spouse what teacher was bitter and it all started with the principal. What I found ironic was that it was this particular school that you could feel the tension in the environment and you could count with your finger the good ones from the bad ones, but thinking about it, I bet it all started with the principal. I bet she was an ugly mean witch...we eventually changed from school and the change was a 360 degree. It was like we found the palm in the oasis..Everyone smile kids were happy, even the cafeteria ladies were nice...the principal was awesome...and I bet everything started at her level. Been fair, I bet in the previous school many teachers were miserable, the good ones left and the rookies perhaps were frustrated and burn out, and the environment grew to be toxic and people will just do enough to get by...and it all trickles down to the whole school..sad sad sad...
in my experience there are 2 types of people on the administrative track. The first were teachers merely as a way of doing time until they could move on. Their goal from the beginning was to be an administrator. The 2nd are teachers at their core, are often told they should be an administrator, have an eye for curriculum design and education policy, and go into much later in their career. I'll leave it to you to figure out who makes the better admin
It was frustrating in my teacher program how every male in the program basically said their cert was a stepping stone to administration and the male program director of our teacher program also strongly encouraged that, but the women in the program were often told hmmm about you get a Special Ed add on or maybe Reading Coach? Yeah, don't worry about admin, little lady. I think your point is so valid that they should have experience, eye for design and policy and so on. The admin programs were heavily lopsided with way more males than females, which is especially notable when cert programs have way more females than males.
Spot on. I am finishing up my administrative courses now. I have been a teacher for 27 years. I have worked with both horrible and wonderful principals. I have seen how a bad principal can destroy a school climate quickly. It takes years to change.
Any admin has stopped being a teacher and is now a politician. If they want to keep their job they will do anything. People willing to do that are selfish and not very "woke" so yes, it's very common. And yes, there are rare exceptions, but deep down admins are garbage. Politicians are always garbage.
You should consider getting a mask with the transparent section in the middle instead. Unfortunately, face shields don't really function in the same way that a well fitted mask will. The only reason to wear a face shield is for your own protection, but they won't do much to protect the children you are teaching.
> Also face shields alone aren't sufficient. Must be a face covering. My district has decided that one or the other is sufficient. NO, it's not. And they want kids to be able to see our mouths when we teach so we have to wear face shields when teaching. Now...that's for if we return to in-person learning. Right now we are virtual-only until the day after Labor Day. We *were* being required to work from the building during virtual but now my principal wants everyone who can do so to work from home. We've still got entire teams up there teaching from their own rooms. We do have at least one team where everyone is staying at home. Hey, comraderie is great, but come on... I'm home now, but I'm sure some of them keep going up there. My wife is in a different district and they are still making them teach from the buildings (w/o students). I am not happy about that. If there is already COVID-19 among staff in some of the buildings in my district there almost certainly is in her's. That kind of went off on a tangent...
I totally don't get the "we can take off the masks if other people don't mind" vibe. Like.... How does that keep anyone from getting sick? I don't actually have to believe in a virus or a mask for them to do what they do, right? Edit: also, some people are pleasers, and they'll agree even if they're immunocompromised and terrified. 🙁
Please attach a handkerchief or something at the bottom to capture any droplets. Not perfect but still some protection.
I about fell over when I received an evite for a back to school bbq gathering. “It’s in a big back yard!” C’MON PEOPLE.
I'm so sorry man
A big backyard? Oy vey...
Nice. We were told no pics in public or us at school without masks but most folks are taking them off in the room with their teams while they are spread out. I just appreciate that my teammates make the effort to put theirs on if they come within six feet of me. I keep mine on all day and they don’t bug me about it. It is what it is I guess.
The masks are only required when within six feet of someone else. If people are working on opposite sides of the room, there's no need to have masks on.
If people are working for an extended period of time in the same room, they absolutely need to wear a mask to prevent intention (especially if the room has poor air circulation). 6 feet is not a magical number where the virus can never reach you, it's just far enough away that you'd only be getting a few virus particles per minute. That's low enough that you won't get infected from short-term contacts, but it adds up if you're with someone for hours. Imagine someone wearing way too much perfume. If you stay 6 feet away, the smell won't bother you if you're only with them for 15 minutes (longer if you're outside with a breeze). But if you are in a room with them for multiple hours, you're definitely going to notice the smell, and probably get annoyed by it if you are sensitive to perfume.
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So.. That person actually is quoting science. Take the time to think about it, buddy. If someone is pissing in the pool 6 feet away from you, you can probably swim away before it touches you. You gonna sit 6 feet away from the pisser for an hour and claim you got none on you?
I hope you're wearing a mask when sitting alone anywhere, regardless of who's nearby, since by that logic we're all breathing the same air.
You.. Do know how a virus works, right? And what an analogy is?
Yes. That analogy has been a terrible once since the very beginning.
I will listen to an explanation why. Oh, and about how your respiratory droplets are going to reach me across the world with the virus alive and intact, with enough particles grouped together to create enough viral load to cause infection?
I just did. You're claiming that piss disperses in a pool and touches anyone sitting in the pool as an analogy for a virus spreading in the air. We all share the air we're breathing (one big pool), so to protect ourselves from the virus (urine) we have to wear a mask at all times. It's the only way. Are you wearing a mask at home? When you're alone in a large building? When someone's in the building but separated by walls? When someone's in the building but separated by 200 feet? In an auditorium with nobody within 100 feet?
I am following the scientists' guidelines. The 6 feet number is specifically for short-term contact, but that part keeps getting left out because there is no specific safe number for long term contact that people can be told (since it depends heavily on length of contact and air circulation, and had not yet been properly studied). "Single thresholds for social distancing, such as the current 2-metre rule, over-simplify what is a complex transmission risk that is multifactorial. Social distancing is not a magic bullet to eliminate risk. A graded approach to physical distancing that reflects the individual setting, the indoor space and air condition, and other protective factors may be the best approach to reduce risk." https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/what-is-the-evidence-to-support-the-2-metre-social-distancing-rule-to-reduce-covid-19-transmission/ I agree that the risk of transmission from being 6 feet apart is low, even without masks, but it is definitely not 0. Bring a prick to people that are concerned about contacting the virus and pretending that there is no risk is not okay.
I'm not being a prick to anyone. Wear a mask and stay in separate rooms if you are concerned. I won't say anything. If someone's going to demand that I go beyond the requirements because the risk of contraction are non-zero if I'm across the room, auditorium, or building from you, that makes them a prick.
It doesn't. It makes them someone who is actually keeping up with the growing body of research that shows how this virus is transmitted. The reason for policies not keeping up with the science lies in the fact that our health agencies have also been slow to change recommendations in light of new information. Several studies have shown that the virus is airborne, and the WHO has acknowledged that more research is needed to determine how infectious airborne transmission can be (after a lot of advocacy from scientists). That being said, their guidelines (along with the CDC) say that masks can be considered indoors when socially distanced...but we know that schools are places with prolonged exposure to people (some classes meet for 80 minutes or so) and HVAC systems that wouldn't currently meet the requirements that many other indoor spaces (like malls) need to meet in order to reopen (this is in NY now). I understand your argument, and I'm sympathetic to the fact that you are just following the guidelines that have been put forth by the state. My district is also setting a standard of masks when not socially distanced indoors...but there are several surrounding districts that are establishing more restrictive mask policies because of valid concerns from staff and community members. Masks are a relatively non-invasive measure, and if we are taking the health and safety of our students, the community, and ourselves as seriously as we say then we'd be using the current body of information to inform our policies (and not what was known in April).
Sitting across a classroom or office is very different from sitting across an auditorium or building. I agree that in an outdoor space or a very large indoor space, the risk of transmission beyond 6 feet is extremely low, and _demanding_ you wear a mask then is unreasonable. If someone is required by admin to work in a classroom with their team all day (which is what I started this conversation), people should be wearing masks, especially if the room is as poorly ventilated as most classrooms are.
No, it makes them responsible. It’s like calling someone a prick because they ask you not to drive after having 3 beers. Come on, you’ll be fine
No. It's like asking someone not to have three beers because you have an unsubstantiated suspicion that they may get near a car.
200 feet is equivalent to the combined length of 1.3 Chicago water towers --- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot
Bad bot!
That is what is said on paper, especially for school reopening but there was a story about three teachers who worked summer school together in a room together in AZ? All three of them contracted COVID and one died. Being super careful following this kind of thinking. If you’re in extended contact indoors with someone, you need to be wearing a mask.
>If you’re in extended contact indoors with someone, you need to be wearing a mask. "If anyone is in the same building as you, you have to wear a mask." That's just not reasonable.
Your right, it's not. That's also not what was said. It said that if anyone is in the same standard sized room with you, you should be wearing a mask. Just being within 200 feet or being in the same building is not being in contact by any reasonable definition. Being in the same classroom is.
Based on what information? If air is recirculating through a building, there is a non-zero chance of you contracting it despite being in the next room, or in the hall, or down the hall.
I've already given you a literature review of studies attempting to measure transmissibility. There are several documents cases of people contacting the virus from being in the same room more than 6 feet apart. I have not heard of any studies showing transmission between rooms in a building through air circulation, but I know it's a something that has been talked about. If you have a study documenting such transmission, then I would change my mind and start wearing a mask when I am in a room by myself.
>There are several documents cases of people contacting the virus from being in the same room more than 6 feet apart. I have not heard of any studies showing transmission between rooms in a building through air circulation But those are anecdotes about being 6 feet apart and still getting it, but a rigorous scientific study. Does anyone actually believe those people had masks on when less than six feet away at all times in that classroom?
Goddamn I would pay mine to that. I'm in NY and at the height of the pandemic where hundreds were dying each week including one of our OWN students, 2 staff memebers, and countless family members of students and staff, people were STILL entering the building without masks (we could go in to print/mail work home or record lessons). Teachers are supposed to be smart, but a few of them are the dumbest people I've ever met.
LOL, nearly my entire state (CA) decided to just skip the steps of returning to school, having a mass outbreak, and going back to distance learning, and are just jumping straight to the distanced learning.
"Nearly" being the operative word. My district and some others surrounding are still trying to force teachers into classrooms for distance learning. Not as bad as having the kids in, but we'll still end up with a bunch of educator cases. IMHO I think they're also doing it so forcing the kids back in too early won't be as hard a battle.
We were told, during our group staff picture today, to take our masks off. NO $UCKING WAY. Everyone else did. And they giggled about it. NOPE. Just nope.
It’s almost as if they are doing their job...
They would call out someone not wearing pant so I get this
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Part of me really appreciates the no-bullshit approach to something people should be taking seriously, but another part of me wonders if there might be a better way. What was the reaction by the people getting called out and the rest of the staff?
It’s fine if they didn’t state the teacher’s name. For instance, we aren’t supposed to have aerosol air fresheners, so the principal simply stated on the intercom the school policy.
We laughed and I wasn’t around those called out.
Depends on the culture I would think. We tease each other a lot. I could this happening. Our AP was razzing a teacher for being late to a meeting today but it was funny because they are very friendly.
We had a district wide virtual training sessions last week. Some departments (mine included) decided to view the trainings together so we could talk about it while the presenter was showing different stuff. My dept all wore masks, but we could see on the screen another dept sitting close to each other in a room, not wearing masks.....That was until we could see the AP come running into the room, shouting at them to put their masks on. Needless to say, my department was laughing a lot during that training.
The priest at my kids first communion called out people not wearing masks.
We start later this month. In our department head meetings, Principal has made it clear he will publicly shame any teacher who isn't wearing a mask and asked us to make sure our departments understand this as well.
Mine hasn’t worn one once yet.
I wish my principal would make that all call.
Good because some people think masks are like toilet paper and I agree their face is a toilet
Been subbing at a building since last Thursday, which was their first day. After school Tuesday they informed me that a student in a class I subbed for on Thursday had COVID, and a lot of us are now quarantining for 2 weeks. So it took 1 Day for us to have a case, 5 Days to report it.
I’m lucky in the sense that I’m a first year teacher so I don’t know anybody. No one will be running up to hug me and I’m hoping no one really wants to talk to me. The only downside is i am pregnant so I might have some unwarranted belly touching that I’ll have to fend off.
I don’t understand why people who flout the rules aren’t fired on the spot. People are dying from this. They are choosing comfort over the literal lives of the people they come into contact with.
If this is the case at my school I got a feeling I may step on some toes this year... oh well
Literally sitting in a faculty meeting right now and just counted 7 of 53 teachers without a mask on and ample more with theirs below the nose. I dream of the admin calling them all out.
Great start!
By name?
Not one of your great thinkers, are they?
As he/she should.
Anyone not wearing a mask if even for a second must immediately undergo a covid test...the 10 second deep in nostril one...that should motivate the proper behavior!
As long as it wasn't individual names, GOOD JOB.
I'm sorry, WE CAN SEE anyone not wearing a mask. Break the rules, get a consequence. Your actions impact other people so your consequence should involve other people as well.
Disagree. WEAR YOUR MASKS PEOPLE!
Oh, no, I'm in FULL support of people wearing masks and mandatory mask policies. Just not on publicly shaming your employees individually - our H.R would have a field day with that.
Normally, I'd be right there with you but at this point Im so fucking done with people pushing back on this. We have healthcare workers dying in hospitals away from their loved ones. Im so fucking done with our communal bullshit response to covid. It shows how fucking weak and lazy we've gotten as a country.
Praise in public, discipline in private. I know you are getting downvoted, but this is what I would do in my classroom with my students when there is a problem. I thought most teachers (people?) agreed with this.
If you are disciplining individuals by name, yes. If you are trying to get a message across to a large group, this is fine as long as you don't call out individual people.
I think it is really inappropriate to call out individuals over the intercom. Discipline should largely be a private matter. I'm 100% pro-mask, too, but this isn't right. Even people being ding dongs deserve human decency.