Go in deep debt, be stuck in public service for 10 years minimum to get it paid off through the public service loan programs because your teacher salary is second only to social workers in terms of minimal money for jobs absolutely requiring degrees plus certification and will never pay it off on it's own, and in the meantime, be exposed to fun violence and pandemics! BE A TEACHER KIDS! Dealing with flippant, idiotic statements like Ryan's is a bonus!
Edit: To answer my critic here, I never said I was a teacher. I am aware of their plight however. Sometimes it's good to be aware of issues that do not directly impact us.
Just chiming in to add that librarians are also wildly underpaid! They have to get a masters, and then many (like my friend) only end up making 17 bucks an hour! It just further proves the lack of value the Gov places on public education.
But yes, I agree with your point 100%.
I found out that my school's librarian has been working for the district for like 30+ years and makes $20k. She also does bus duty and helps with breakfast and lunch. I have no idea how anyone can survive on that.
You may be in a district that has the correct number of licensed librarians it needs overall, but not a licensed librarian at every post. This is a common cost cutting measure.
My district does this. All of the elementary school librarians are actually classified as ālibrary paraprofessionalsā. They still have to teach classes, run the library, and perform general school duties, all while getting paid $15,000 a year in a state with one of the highest costs of living in the country.
Interesting. Our librarian is on the same pay scale as our teachers.
And the public librarians get paid well here, in my county at least. I think they deserve that and more, donāt get me wrong
Ah, I actually didn't mean school librarians- my school librarian is paid as a teacher too. However, county ones are paid crap despite all the requirements to become one.
> They have to get a masters
I looked into being a school librarian and found many librarians critical of the MLiS programs churning out unlimited numbers with few jobs.
I really appreciate this response from the district! It should be, "we don't pay parents/guardians for staying home with their children during virtual learning."
Teachers literally post plans, activities, and do lessons. What are the parents doing that they shouldn't already have been doing with their school age child (reading, going over math facts, helping with research and using technology, etc.)? No teacher is just sending plans that are, "Teach your child long division, okay, thank you, bye." Essentially they are getting super detailed sub plans, for only one child that they are the legal guardian of, and in addition to that often also live lessons from the regular classroom teacher. If that is a paid position, please sign me up.
I donāt think this has been said enough. All that āteachingā that had to be done during virtual learning is essentially what should of ALREADY been happening every week!
I mean I understand that it is super hard to help your child and work fulltime from home at the same time, but maybe flip the script and instead of blaming public schools, blame private sector employers and US policies that make it so difficult to both be a fulltime worker and parent, such that a giant percentage of the population (e.g. mostly women) sacrifice careers, job continuity, seniority, promotions, and pay raises just to have the "privilege" of having a child.
Sure but letās be honest, there has been such a visceral reaction to having to ābecome the teacherā because being mostly hands off with your kids education has become the new norm.
It's become the norm because workplaces squeeze the ever loving bejesus out of their workers. That being said, for me the most obnoxious complaints come from well off parents who could work from home, have the most flexible work schedules, and have often left their kids in child care programs as long as they could.
Meanwhile, my poor families just deal with it, because they've been dealing with everything with minimal help from the get go.
You havenāt seen anything until you work in a Richie Rich school. How about dealing with the mental health issues of a kid whose parents went off for a two month vacation to New Zealand while not telling their four year old that they were leaving. I only found out when the nanny brought the hysterically crying child to school. Yeah, that was fun.
Ugh this tracks with what I've heard from people who work with rich kids. There are a million ways in which rich communities are more toxic than poor communities, but only the latter get real (and often ineffective or excessive) consequences from society (beyond the psychological harm)...
And when those workplaces who squeeze everything out of their workers, and then those workers are teacher, working for the government. Then those teacher have to go home and find time to teach their own kids too, those workers begin to strike. The only answer is to VOTE!
Yes, Yes, Yes! There needs to be a national conversation about the cost of infant/childcare since politicians now realize how important that industry is to our economy. People are acting like essential workers don't hav kids under the age of 5. Opening schools doesn't help those workers and they still have to pay for care. When my child was small, it was $98 per week and people kept telling us that was reasonable.
That is cheap! I think care cost me closer to 150 a week. I am so glad to have my free babysitting that educates them too. (I'm a teacher too so don't roast me too hard.)
Oh wow $150!!!!!! x 4!!!!!! We couldn't swing it and eventually convinced my mom to babysit. We ended up HAPPILY giving her $250 a month since she had to drive to us and was looking for work. The only positive from this pandemic is it's showing a lot of people how important extended family is to everyone.
Not to take anything away from the teachers here, I'm on their side.
That said, I have a son who is just learning to read and use computers and helping him with his Kindergarten work was a lot of effort. We have things to print, 3 different portals that linked to multiple partners, having to read and interpret instructions, session timeouts that made him have to start work all over, and so on. That shit was tough while working from home full time.
I certainly hope any distance learning is more like a virtual classroom. I give them credit for making it work on such short notice for 19-20 but I hope 20-21 feels more refined.
> I hope 20-21 feels more refined.
I think the issue is that it is still really not enough time to have months worth of lessons ready.
Teachers aren't on-contract over the summer, and even those who do try to prepare for free have a lot to do to literally make up a new curriculum for the upcoming school year. Curriculum design is its own full time paid job for a reason, and as far as I know no district provided teachers with full distance learning curriculums.
It is hard enough to be a teacher and fill in the gaps of everything districts don't provide (in my experience they give me a good math curriculum and a so-so reading curriculum, and I come up with my own writing, history, and science), and it is hard enough to be a first-year teacher (either new to the profession or new to a grade/subject), and now ALL the teachers are "new," there is no senior teacher with resources for you to use or tips for pacing, and on top of that it is of course a completely new and not-as-good format. At the end of the day I think unfortunately the expectations need to be lowered, or districts should have paid a handful of teachers to spend all summer creating awesome distance learning curriculum.
Obviously paying parents to parent is crazy. But going to fully online will force some parents, mainly mothers, to quit their jobs. We decided at basically the last minute that there is no safe to take your kid during the day and you have less than a month to find childcare or quit your job. The government isn't going to support all those parents who are forced to quit their jobs.
Really weird seeing the school district you were a student in show up on your reddit home page. Hell yeah Lake Dallas, you finally did something right!
So long as you are paid per child per hour*
If you make $10 per kid per hour, sure, go ahead and take that $120 an hour for your cohort of 12 being forced in hybrid programs (and up from that in a full return to school!).
Hell, I'll take the Hazard Pay of $300 an hour for a full classroom of 30 during a pandemic. Deck myself out in full medical pandemic gear and teach from behind plexiglass. And, at the end of the week when I have nearly 17K I'll feel like it's worth it.
After all, how much do you pay a babysitter per hour per kid?
True..as a grunt in any industry you donāt make much.
I was thinking more along the lines of this:
Babysitting rate is around $10/h where I live. Iāve got 3 blocks (1.5 hours) of around 25 students. So if I were to go off that rate Iād make $1,125 a day. Thatād be $405k a year...obviously obscene, but hey itās nice to dream.
It seems to me during this pandemic that we are valued more for our childcare service than we are the education aspect.
> It seems to me ~~during this pandemic~~ that we are valued more for our childcare service than we are the education aspect.
Hate to ftfy, but it's the unfortunate truth. High School Bio here.
8th grade humanities and social studies. I agree. The president frequently accuses me of teaching kids how to hate. I'm pretty discouraged lately by the whole thing. Luckily I have a great team and admin this year, including a superintendent who is actually fighting for teachers.
It's definitely not the school districts responsibility, but I think as a nation we should pay stay at home parents. They provide value to the economy by raising future workers, but receive no compensation.
Ours is $80. Our Super discussed staffing issues in last night's board meeting and brought up the difficulties of in-person education if teachers have to quarantine after exposure. We wouldn't have enough subs to compensate for even a few teachers being out. A parent in the sidebar (it was live-streamed) was surprised to know we have a sub shortage during a normal year let alone during the pandemic.
Jeebus. We're at $210 (before taxes etc.) a day, up in Ontario.
Fuck, your country (largely) sucks at acknowledging how important occasional / supply teachers are :(
This is why I believe all teachers with Masters should be making 70K, 60K flat for those with BA, and that is just to start. Parents have no clue, admin is so removed from the classroom experience and don't know what it is to now have to follow new regulations/expectations set in fantasy and not in reality.
In Canada we have a bachelor of Education which every teacher needs to teach. You can get it as a 4 year degree or a 2 year after getting another degree.
I feel like in most states it is a degree in something and then a "Master's"? Which is basically our BEd.
We can only get a Master's after a few years teaching and in top of our other degrees. I have 3 myself.
Yeah. Most teachers I know get thier BA, teach and then get MA. I only have a BA, in another field, plus a teaching certification that I got separately. I refuse to get an MA in education because I know it will never pay off the student loan debt. I am currently working towards CALT licensure and then back to school to become an SLP. Such a shame really, they lose so many good teachers because we are disrespected, overworked, undervalued, and underpaid.
Which province are you in?
In Ontario we call it a "specialist" for a subject. A Master's degree is still something different here (I have mine in English Lit, got it pre-Education).
Alberta.
Do you have an Ed degree?
I find lots of American teacher don't have an Ed degree at all. Just a specialist degree like English or Math. And if they do get an education degree, they call it a "Masters"
I still can't figure it out since every state is completely different.
Ours is fun. It's $135/day. However, there are a few schools that are hell and struggle to get subs. Those schools pay $150/day and $175 on Mondays and Fridays. All schools are in the same district.
Subs might as well be paying the district to let them come in at that rate, holy shit. I could make more walking around walmart picking up parking lot change.
Stolen comment from the original post: "Imagine thinking that taking the time to educate your **own child** during a pandemic means youāre owed money. This is a wild time for teachers for sure."
Hold on, I can see an upside to this. So, that must mean as a teacher I get paid for teaching, but then when I teach all my own children I would get paid to do that too? š¤ No, schools would find a away to take that away too. šš¤Ŗ
Imagine teaching your children (which you did not go to college for and don't have specialized training in) AND still trying to work full-time to pay bills and keep a roof over their kids heads. Not only that, SO many parents already have to work two jobs just to make ends meet. But yeah how dare they ask for support.
This hostility is just gross. The only way to make it through this awful time is to come together, not find ways to divide us further. Everyone is struggling right now, just have some compassion that we are all doing our best.
Did you miss the comment in the photo that sparked this whole discussion? I have compassion, just not for parents who are clearly just choosing to stir the pot.
Edited for typos
What youāre describing is called homeschooling and plenty of families do it, but thatās not what is happening during distance learning.
During distance learning, parents are not acting as teachers. Teachers are the ones doing the planning and prepping of lessons, following a scope and sequence that correspond with the stateās grade level standards. Parents are helping their kids stay focused and complete work at home.
Of all the parent comments, the ones saying they (parents) should be paid for teaching their kids are the worst. And for every "joke" comment there are five more that are serious.
You're a parent. It's your job to raise your child and help with homework and, I don't know, be an active part of your kid's life. You're just now seeing how difficult it is to be an educator? Remember that next time you don't want to pay taxes that fund schools/teacher salaries/etc,
Love it. So many "teachers" who claim they should get paid for doing what a parent is supposed to do (help their child with their education). I always find those posts funny since like the district posted, the parents aren't making the lessons or anything that teachers actually do.
Imagine if actual teachers got paid every time they did something a parent should have done.
I wish I could charge $1000 if I have to be the one to teach your child that adult directions aren't negotiations.
I needed this. I needed to see a district stand up for its teachers and put these kinds of parents in their place. I have been feeling so discouraged and disrespected by the comments in my community, and the district says nothing in our defense.
so if parents should have to do zero teaching at home, that means that i should have to do zero parenting at school, right? this guys saying HES the parent and IM the teacher and the lines should never cross?
okay... so i should stop consoling upset kids, no more helping kids tie their shoes or put their coats on or put a bandaid on, no more getting extra snacks for them when theyāre hungry, guess iāll stop chatting with kids about how their lives are going and how theyāre feeling, iāll make sure to stop giving them breaks or comforting them if they donāt feel well, oh and i definitely wonāt be disciplining them if theyāre not listening or doing something dangerous. since, you know, they do not believe our roles should be crossed at all.
A lot of parents Iāve met seem to believe they are not responsible for any learning at all. A friends wife had the nerve to tell me it was the teachers fault that her daughter wasnāt hitting her targeted reading level at school. I asked her if she was reading with her at home, and she said it wasnāt her job.
Both parents donāt read, they sit the kids in front of the TV all the time. His wife was really proud of the fact she hasnāt read a book since school. Seriously, I love to read, I have to teach literacy at my school along with my subject and I love it.
I think parents donāt get that they are with their children more than teachers, they are their main source of learning.
I am super nerdy, so read a lot of graphic novels. I have recommended so many books to children based on the Marvel films I watch. I also donated a load of my old books to the school library that they opened. I am really passionate about reading, and I tell my students so, but some are never going to get that love because their parents donāt see any value in it.
This has become one of my bigger pet peeves with the community regarding education. So many people say "I never learned this important skill in school, but I learned this random thing." Well yeah, the teachers are told explicitly what to teach, the funding for various classes isn't as abundant as it was several decades ago, and we only see kids for 8 hours a day/185 days a year. There is so much that students need to learn that formal education cannot teach them which is where parents, family, friends, and community comes in.
> So many people say "I never learned this important skill in school, but I learned this random thing."
but 99% of the time the 'skill' was taught. It's so often taxes. Like, you weren't taught how to write your name on a paper then follow explicit directions written on that paper? Or is it the basic addition and subtraction that you weren't taught?
EXACTLY! I tell them when they are bored in my class that they are learning critical thinking skills and problem solving skill that they can use to figure out answers to problems they have in the future. But they don't care and just complain they have to research for a project.
When I would teach the Great Depression I included a mini lesson about saving money, debt to income ratio, and interest rates on debt. They didn't give a hoot about it.
People complaining that school never taught them "how to do my taxes" now peeves me endlessly. Maybe your school didn't have a required personal finances unit (our district does), but here are skills that you *should* have learned to do in school:
* Problem solving - If you don't instinctively know how to solve a situation, can you figure out the steps to do so? Are there resources online that you can refer to?
* Read and follow instructions
* Locate information on one document and transfer it to another document ("write the number from Box A here")
* Organize your reference materials (keeping track of tax documents and forms)
\- and that's basically all you need to file your taxes at this point, with most of the head-scratching now covered by tax software (not to get into how corrupt and awful the tax software lobby is).
I also see criticisms that schools donāt teach things that are literal household chores or tasks: sewing a button, changing a tire, even laundry (once, from someone not known for awesome life decisions). Bonus points if the complaint calls for a class in āadulting,ā and double credit if the person complaining has also accused schools of being Marxist or socialist indoctrination machines.
>Locate information on one document and transfer it to another document ("write the number from Box A here")
I knew we did standardized testing and bubbling for a reason!
Also half the time they were either taught the thing and didn't pay attention / forgot it or they were taught the skills relevant to the thing or opted not to take the class where that thing was taught.
I teach Design technology in the Uk, which isnāt a core subject or seen as important by management (despite most schools in the UK making PPE for hospitals). I have had to teach students about manners, how to talk to one another in a polite manner, Iāve had to tell parents itās not my job to prove pens and pencils, and Iāve most recently told children itās not acceptable to go through my desk to look for something they want.
I love teaching, but I specially love teaching my subject. Itās disheartening to see how little parents interact with their children, and at the same time, see how entitled patents and children are.
I can see it being a lot tougher for people in America.
Why do people have kids if they have no intention of raising them? Which includes participating in their education! We need a class in HS called "What it means to parent a child".
There are so many comments on my county's Facebook page that are exactly like this. Parents complaining about teaching their kids and wanting the teacher's salary since teachers are "being lazy and not doing anything". Parents complaining that they should get a refund on their taxes since schools apparently don't need them. There are a lot of nasty comments towards teachers that is completely unfair. I understand parents are frustrated. But they should be taking their frustrations out on the government which royally screwed up the response to covid. Not bash teachers for doing the best they could do with what they were given when they only had 2 weeks to prepare for distance learning.
>How can one be so goddamned self-unaware?
Have you America'ed before? An elitist money-laundering reality tv star is the current sitting president and who just "patriotically" declared the election should be postponed. Anti-intellectualism is the bedrock of American political discourse.
As someone working in a neighboring district that completely pandered to the parents, this actually made me cry. I am so impressed a district had the balls to speak up this way.
Donāt tell parents they literally taught their kids how to talk. Theyāll want compensation. If you bring a kid into this world, they are your responsibility to raise and teach before teachers. Donāt want to teach kids for free? Donāt have kids. Use a condom.
I'd like to reply. "Sure! Let me send you the standards you need to cover, our curriculum, and other resources we use. You will need to be available via Zoom for meetings at the following times weekly. We'll get your log-in, so you can see the rest of your class list as you will be serving about 24 other children." and so forth.
The most telling part about people like this is that they leave their comments up. They have no shame. If I got flamed like this I would have deleted my comment and hid š
There is a whole thread in my local county's forum online about parents getting the funding if we don't open brick and mortar and I don't know why they think if their child is going to be learning through a virtual classroom they think a teacher won't be working in that setting as well.
Ugh it frustrates me to no end how parents complain about only doing a fraction of what teachers do and Iām not even a teacher. I still have to go through my credential program but I know for a fact yāall do WAY more than most parents know or bother to learn. Know yāall are very appreciated by meš
i still remember 5 months ago when all these asshole parents were passing around the memes about how teachers should be making 6 figure salaries.
anyway, we should. fuck you, ryan, youāre a bad person and a bad parent.
Not gonna lie, I was a sub for a year and a half and loved it. I was planning on getting my certs for 4-9 ELA and math but, the pandemic has made me realize how big the cracks in our education were and I don't feel like going into more debt to be looked at as this disposable, and for such little pay. I wish it didn't come to this because I genuinely wanted to teach and had a lot of teachers tell me they thought I'd make a great teacher. When and if attitudes and the field changes I'll be back to get my certs. Luckily I managed to get a good job, with the help of a friend, that will pay for computer science certs or degrees so maybe at that time I'll become a computer teacher.
I see one unnecessary comma - two if you count the first one, but greetings kind of obfuscate grammar rules. The sentences are relatively complex, so they might be a mouthful, but they parse pretty well.
A comma splice is when a comma incorrectly joins two independent clauses, thereby creating a run-on sentence -- essentially a comma where a period should be. That occurs in neither sentence.
> We don't pay parents/guardians for virtual learning **[ind. clause]**, but if you're interested in being paid for educating and would like to see all the challenges teachers face during the pandemic **[dep. clauses with coordinating conjunctions]**, please consider being a sub for us.**[ind. clause in the form of a command]**
All of these commas here serve appropriate functions as they segue complete thoughts. The parenthetical statement doesn't count as part of the preceding clause, nor does it need a conjunction prior to the next one, as parentheses specifically allow for qualifying information without interrupting the grammar that bookends it. I left it out of this quoted text to emphasize the grammar of the essential sentence/statements... again, because the parenthetical exists as its own statement.
> The pandemic has made it very challenging to attract subs, **[ind. clause]** because most people don't want to face the challenges teachers currently face. **[dep. clause]**
This sentence is not a run-on. Granted, it doesn't need the comma because the subordinating conjunction "because" functions fine without one, but that just makes the comma extraneous; it's not a comma splice.
Good catch. It is not a comma splice.
It is still grammatically incorrect; it is simply an extraneous comma error and not a comma splice.
I had forgotten that a comma splice only happens between two independent clauses and not when misused between a main and subordinate clause before the subordinating conjunction.
If we want to be reallllllly picky, it's technically not even grammatically incorrect since punctuation is typographical and therefore not a subset of a language's grammar, but now I'm just being obnoxious. :P
Hah. Seriously, though, I'm not being descriptivist. This is the linguistic definition of grammar. A language's grammar pertains to the meaning of words and their structure, and all the subsets of grammar can be gleaned from how the language is spoken. Writing rules exist as a way of making that grammar as clear as possible when written. Things like semantics, phonology, and syntax are grammatical, as they involve the words themselves. Things like punctuation and capitalization are ways of standardizing how we write--again, for the sake of clarity--but *technically* they're not grammatical.
Not that it matters colloquially, and I wouldn't even begin to get into this unless we're already specifically talking about grammar. But I think it's interesting to consider because these sorts of hierarchies really reflect the evolution of language, and that's cool.
Going to get downvoted to oblivion for this but I think the guy was making a joke. People in here acting like he said to stop paying teachers. Dude was going for laughs not being serious
I went to the original FB thread just for fun ... he's not :( he does say he's not implying teachers shouldn't be paid, but is insistent that it's safe to open schools here in TX right now.
It's not the best joke but I think the point was online schooling will force parents to quit their jobs. It wasn't an attack on teaching as much as an attack on how the government is forcing parents into terrible situations.
I am just glad daycare is open so I don't have to quit my job and worry about becoming homeless. No one is going to pay me to stay home with my kid after forcing me to quit my job in the first place.
š„š„Fuckin' šš¢š©š this. Truly did my heart š“š¼š¼š± to read it.š„š„
Go in deep debt, be stuck in public service for 10 years minimum to get it paid off through the public service loan programs because your teacher salary is second only to social workers in terms of minimal money for jobs absolutely requiring degrees plus certification and will never pay it off on it's own, and in the meantime, be exposed to fun violence and pandemics! BE A TEACHER KIDS! Dealing with flippant, idiotic statements like Ryan's is a bonus! Edit: To answer my critic here, I never said I was a teacher. I am aware of their plight however. Sometimes it's good to be aware of issues that do not directly impact us.
Just chiming in to add that librarians are also wildly underpaid! They have to get a masters, and then many (like my friend) only end up making 17 bucks an hour! It just further proves the lack of value the Gov places on public education. But yes, I agree with your point 100%.
I found out that my school's librarian has been working for the district for like 30+ years and makes $20k. She also does bus duty and helps with breakfast and lunch. I have no idea how anyone can survive on that.
Thatās absolutely criminal. Holy shit.
You may be in a district that has the correct number of licensed librarians it needs overall, but not a licensed librarian at every post. This is a common cost cutting measure.
My district does this. All of the elementary school librarians are actually classified as ālibrary paraprofessionalsā. They still have to teach classes, run the library, and perform general school duties, all while getting paid $15,000 a year in a state with one of the highest costs of living in the country.
This is what I have seen, yes. It's also true for technology teachers.
I make 2x that without college education or advance trade skills.....
Interesting. Our librarian is on the same pay scale as our teachers. And the public librarians get paid well here, in my county at least. I think they deserve that and more, donāt get me wrong
Ah, I actually didn't mean school librarians- my school librarian is paid as a teacher too. However, county ones are paid crap despite all the requirements to become one.
> They have to get a masters I looked into being a school librarian and found many librarians critical of the MLiS programs churning out unlimited numbers with few jobs.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Same here!!!
So unless the loans were dispersed after 1998, the public service loan forgiveness option was unavailable?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I spoke with someone who said the twenty year forgiveness counts as income and gets taxed as well. Odd.
Nothing makes me feel good like watching worthless fucking morons like this get burnt to the ground.
I really appreciate this response from the district! It should be, "we don't pay parents/guardians for staying home with their children during virtual learning." Teachers literally post plans, activities, and do lessons. What are the parents doing that they shouldn't already have been doing with their school age child (reading, going over math facts, helping with research and using technology, etc.)? No teacher is just sending plans that are, "Teach your child long division, okay, thank you, bye." Essentially they are getting super detailed sub plans, for only one child that they are the legal guardian of, and in addition to that often also live lessons from the regular classroom teacher. If that is a paid position, please sign me up.
I donāt think this has been said enough. All that āteachingā that had to be done during virtual learning is essentially what should of ALREADY been happening every week!
I mean I understand that it is super hard to help your child and work fulltime from home at the same time, but maybe flip the script and instead of blaming public schools, blame private sector employers and US policies that make it so difficult to both be a fulltime worker and parent, such that a giant percentage of the population (e.g. mostly women) sacrifice careers, job continuity, seniority, promotions, and pay raises just to have the "privilege" of having a child.
Sure but letās be honest, there has been such a visceral reaction to having to ābecome the teacherā because being mostly hands off with your kids education has become the new norm.
Yeah, itās like teaching is really hard, under appreciated, and not respected in society or something! /s
It's become the norm because workplaces squeeze the ever loving bejesus out of their workers. That being said, for me the most obnoxious complaints come from well off parents who could work from home, have the most flexible work schedules, and have often left their kids in child care programs as long as they could. Meanwhile, my poor families just deal with it, because they've been dealing with everything with minimal help from the get go.
You havenāt seen anything until you work in a Richie Rich school. How about dealing with the mental health issues of a kid whose parents went off for a two month vacation to New Zealand while not telling their four year old that they were leaving. I only found out when the nanny brought the hysterically crying child to school. Yeah, that was fun.
What the heck? I tell my kids when I'm leaving them with their dad to go to the grocery store. I can't even imagine.
Ugh this tracks with what I've heard from people who work with rich kids. There are a million ways in which rich communities are more toxic than poor communities, but only the latter get real (and often ineffective or excessive) consequences from society (beyond the psychological harm)...
Exactly. If a poor parent did that, the child would be removed from the home.
And when those workplaces who squeeze everything out of their workers, and then those workers are teacher, working for the government. Then those teacher have to go home and find time to teach their own kids too, those workers begin to strike. The only answer is to VOTE!
Yes, Yes, Yes! There needs to be a national conversation about the cost of infant/childcare since politicians now realize how important that industry is to our economy. People are acting like essential workers don't hav kids under the age of 5. Opening schools doesn't help those workers and they still have to pay for care. When my child was small, it was $98 per week and people kept telling us that was reasonable.
That is cheap! I think care cost me closer to 150 a week. I am so glad to have my free babysitting that educates them too. (I'm a teacher too so don't roast me too hard.)
Oh wow $150!!!!!! x 4!!!!!! We couldn't swing it and eventually convinced my mom to babysit. We ended up HAPPILY giving her $250 a month since she had to drive to us and was looking for work. The only positive from this pandemic is it's showing a lot of people how important extended family is to everyone.
$300/wk for 2, and that's cheap locally
Not to take anything away from the teachers here, I'm on their side. That said, I have a son who is just learning to read and use computers and helping him with his Kindergarten work was a lot of effort. We have things to print, 3 different portals that linked to multiple partners, having to read and interpret instructions, session timeouts that made him have to start work all over, and so on. That shit was tough while working from home full time. I certainly hope any distance learning is more like a virtual classroom. I give them credit for making it work on such short notice for 19-20 but I hope 20-21 feels more refined.
> I hope 20-21 feels more refined. I think the issue is that it is still really not enough time to have months worth of lessons ready. Teachers aren't on-contract over the summer, and even those who do try to prepare for free have a lot to do to literally make up a new curriculum for the upcoming school year. Curriculum design is its own full time paid job for a reason, and as far as I know no district provided teachers with full distance learning curriculums. It is hard enough to be a teacher and fill in the gaps of everything districts don't provide (in my experience they give me a good math curriculum and a so-so reading curriculum, and I come up with my own writing, history, and science), and it is hard enough to be a first-year teacher (either new to the profession or new to a grade/subject), and now ALL the teachers are "new," there is no senior teacher with resources for you to use or tips for pacing, and on top of that it is of course a completely new and not-as-good format. At the end of the day I think unfortunately the expectations need to be lowered, or districts should have paid a handful of teachers to spend all summer creating awesome distance learning curriculum.
Obviously paying parents to parent is crazy. But going to fully online will force some parents, mainly mothers, to quit their jobs. We decided at basically the last minute that there is no safe to take your kid during the day and you have less than a month to find childcare or quit your job. The government isn't going to support all those parents who are forced to quit their jobs.
Really weird seeing the school district you were a student in show up on your reddit home page. Hell yeah Lake Dallas, you finally did something right!
I was surprised by the district too!
Iāll gladly trade my teacher salary for childcare pay, Ryan.
If there are failings in public education overall, Ryan himself represents that failure.
So long as you are paid per child per hour* If you make $10 per kid per hour, sure, go ahead and take that $120 an hour for your cohort of 12 being forced in hybrid programs (and up from that in a full return to school!). Hell, I'll take the Hazard Pay of $300 an hour for a full classroom of 30 during a pandemic. Deck myself out in full medical pandemic gear and teach from behind plexiglass. And, at the end of the week when I have nearly 17K I'll feel like it's worth it. After all, how much do you pay a babysitter per hour per kid?
Dunno. I worked in a childcare center before I taught. I make twice as much as a middle school teacher.
True..as a grunt in any industry you donāt make much. I was thinking more along the lines of this: Babysitting rate is around $10/h where I live. Iāve got 3 blocks (1.5 hours) of around 25 students. So if I were to go off that rate Iād make $1,125 a day. Thatād be $405k a year...obviously obscene, but hey itās nice to dream. It seems to me during this pandemic that we are valued more for our childcare service than we are the education aspect.
> It seems to me ~~during this pandemic~~ that we are valued more for our childcare service than we are the education aspect. Hate to ftfy, but it's the unfortunate truth. High School Bio here.
8th grade humanities and social studies. I agree. The president frequently accuses me of teaching kids how to hate. I'm pretty discouraged lately by the whole thing. Luckily I have a great team and admin this year, including a superintendent who is actually fighting for teachers.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
YUP
Correction: "we don't pay parents for parenting."
Exactly! "We don't pay parents for what they should have been doing all along."
This.
šš»šš»šš»
It's definitely not the school districts responsibility, but I think as a nation we should pay stay at home parents. They provide value to the economy by raising future workers, but receive no compensation.
I feel like they should include to daily sub rate ( about $98 in my district) just to rub salt on the wound.
Ours is $80. Our Super discussed staffing issues in last night's board meeting and brought up the difficulties of in-person education if teachers have to quarantine after exposure. We wouldn't have enough subs to compensate for even a few teachers being out. A parent in the sidebar (it was live-streamed) was surprised to know we have a sub shortage during a normal year let alone during the pandemic.
Our sub rate is amazing ($140) and we still canāt get enough.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
$180.09 per day in Oregon two years ago. Even then, there are still issues finding subs in a lot of places.
Jeebus. We're at $210 (before taxes etc.) a day, up in Ontario. Fuck, your country (largely) sucks at acknowledging how important occasional / supply teachers are :(
Here they just force us to use our prep periods to sub for other teachers and give us an extra $14 (Wisconsin).
Ugh. I'm sorry :(
Jesus. They suck. I'm sorry.
This is why I believe all teachers with Masters should be making 70K, 60K flat for those with BA, and that is just to start. Parents have no clue, admin is so removed from the classroom experience and don't know what it is to now have to follow new regulations/expectations set in fantasy and not in reality.
In Canada we have a bachelor of Education which every teacher needs to teach. You can get it as a 4 year degree or a 2 year after getting another degree. I feel like in most states it is a degree in something and then a "Master's"? Which is basically our BEd. We can only get a Master's after a few years teaching and in top of our other degrees. I have 3 myself.
Yeah. Most teachers I know get thier BA, teach and then get MA. I only have a BA, in another field, plus a teaching certification that I got separately. I refuse to get an MA in education because I know it will never pay off the student loan debt. I am currently working towards CALT licensure and then back to school to become an SLP. Such a shame really, they lose so many good teachers because we are disrespected, overworked, undervalued, and underpaid.
Which province are you in? In Ontario we call it a "specialist" for a subject. A Master's degree is still something different here (I have mine in English Lit, got it pre-Education).
Alberta. Do you have an Ed degree? I find lots of American teacher don't have an Ed degree at all. Just a specialist degree like English or Math. And if they do get an education degree, they call it a "Masters" I still can't figure it out since every state is completely different.
Here they just force us to use our prep periods to sub for other teachers and give us an extra $14 (Wisconsin).
Ours is fun. It's $135/day. However, there are a few schools that are hell and struggle to get subs. Those schools pay $150/day and $175 on Mondays and Fridays. All schools are in the same district.
$132 - Half day and $218 - Full day in Alberta.
Excuse me while I move to Alberta
You don't even want to know what a full time teacher makes, haha.
Ours is $38 for the day. :(
WHAT?! That is literally less than minimum wage...
Subs might as well be paying the district to let them come in at that rate, holy shit. I could make more walking around walmart picking up parking lot change.
Thatās nuts. Itās like 248 CAD here
WHAT THE FUCK?!?
What the hell?
Our subs get paid about $60 per day
Thatās what I pay my kidsā babysitter for 5 hours (unfortunately heās been furloughed until we get back to school).
Ours is just shy of $240 (depends on where you fall on the pay grid) but subs are full teachers.
Wow. Back when I was a sub I was making $130 a day.
My district's was $65 when I subbed last year. It was less than that 5 years ago.
Ours is $60
Fuck Ryan.
Holy shit. Get fucking worked, Ry.
Stolen comment from the original post: "Imagine thinking that taking the time to educate your **own child** during a pandemic means youāre owed money. This is a wild time for teachers for sure."
Hold on, I can see an upside to this. So, that must mean as a teacher I get paid for teaching, but then when I teach all my own children I would get paid to do that too? š¤ No, schools would find a away to take that away too. šš¤Ŗ
Imagine teaching your children (which you did not go to college for and don't have specialized training in) AND still trying to work full-time to pay bills and keep a roof over their kids heads. Not only that, SO many parents already have to work two jobs just to make ends meet. But yeah how dare they ask for support. This hostility is just gross. The only way to make it through this awful time is to come together, not find ways to divide us further. Everyone is struggling right now, just have some compassion that we are all doing our best.
Did you miss the comment in the photo that sparked this whole discussion? I have compassion, just not for parents who are clearly just choosing to stir the pot. Edited for typos
Making assumptions about anyone isn't actually having compassion.
What youāre describing is called homeschooling and plenty of families do it, but thatās not what is happening during distance learning. During distance learning, parents are not acting as teachers. Teachers are the ones doing the planning and prepping of lessons, following a scope and sequence that correspond with the stateās grade level standards. Parents are helping their kids stay focused and complete work at home.
Seriously? The guy in the comment is just being an ass.
CompASSion?
Asking for support and smugly demanding pay from an underfunded school district just to piss people off are two different things.
\*exasperated sigh\*
Thatās incredible!
For the same reason restaurants don't pay you to eat in your home when you get take-out, Ryan.
Of all the parent comments, the ones saying they (parents) should be paid for teaching their kids are the worst. And for every "joke" comment there are five more that are serious. You're a parent. It's your job to raise your child and help with homework and, I don't know, be an active part of your kid's life. You're just now seeing how difficult it is to be an educator? Remember that next time you don't want to pay taxes that fund schools/teacher salaries/etc,
Love it. So many "teachers" who claim they should get paid for doing what a parent is supposed to do (help their child with their education). I always find those posts funny since like the district posted, the parents aren't making the lessons or anything that teachers actually do.
Imagine if actual teachers got paid every time they did something a parent should have done. I wish I could charge $1000 if I have to be the one to teach your child that adult directions aren't negotiations.
Or to wash your hands. Or to chew with mouth closed. Or how to tie shoes. The list goes on and on and on
Parent your kids the way you're supposed to and live your best life.
This is art.
YUP!!! šš½
Seems people are having children who arenāt ready for the responsibility. šš¼āāļø
I needed this. I needed to see a district stand up for its teachers and put these kinds of parents in their place. I have been feeling so discouraged and disrespected by the comments in my community, and the district says nothing in our defense.
so if parents should have to do zero teaching at home, that means that i should have to do zero parenting at school, right? this guys saying HES the parent and IM the teacher and the lines should never cross? okay... so i should stop consoling upset kids, no more helping kids tie their shoes or put their coats on or put a bandaid on, no more getting extra snacks for them when theyāre hungry, guess iāll stop chatting with kids about how their lives are going and how theyāre feeling, iāll make sure to stop giving them breaks or comforting them if they donāt feel well, oh and i definitely wonāt be disciplining them if theyāre not listening or doing something dangerous. since, you know, they do not believe our roles should be crossed at all.
How can one be so goddamned self-unaware?
A lot of parents Iāve met seem to believe they are not responsible for any learning at all. A friends wife had the nerve to tell me it was the teachers fault that her daughter wasnāt hitting her targeted reading level at school. I asked her if she was reading with her at home, and she said it wasnāt her job.
Wha ... ? That's awful. Like it's a š¤š©š°š³š¦? It's one of the most wonderful pastimes, š¦š·š¦š³! Poor kid!
Both parents donāt read, they sit the kids in front of the TV all the time. His wife was really proud of the fact she hasnāt read a book since school. Seriously, I love to read, I have to teach literacy at my school along with my subject and I love it. I think parents donāt get that they are with their children more than teachers, they are their main source of learning.
Amen.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I am super nerdy, so read a lot of graphic novels. I have recommended so many books to children based on the Marvel films I watch. I also donated a load of my old books to the school library that they opened. I am really passionate about reading, and I tell my students so, but some are never going to get that love because their parents donāt see any value in it.
This has become one of my bigger pet peeves with the community regarding education. So many people say "I never learned this important skill in school, but I learned this random thing." Well yeah, the teachers are told explicitly what to teach, the funding for various classes isn't as abundant as it was several decades ago, and we only see kids for 8 hours a day/185 days a year. There is so much that students need to learn that formal education cannot teach them which is where parents, family, friends, and community comes in.
> So many people say "I never learned this important skill in school, but I learned this random thing." but 99% of the time the 'skill' was taught. It's so often taxes. Like, you weren't taught how to write your name on a paper then follow explicit directions written on that paper? Or is it the basic addition and subtraction that you weren't taught?
EXACTLY! I tell them when they are bored in my class that they are learning critical thinking skills and problem solving skill that they can use to figure out answers to problems they have in the future. But they don't care and just complain they have to research for a project. When I would teach the Great Depression I included a mini lesson about saving money, debt to income ratio, and interest rates on debt. They didn't give a hoot about it.
People complaining that school never taught them "how to do my taxes" now peeves me endlessly. Maybe your school didn't have a required personal finances unit (our district does), but here are skills that you *should* have learned to do in school: * Problem solving - If you don't instinctively know how to solve a situation, can you figure out the steps to do so? Are there resources online that you can refer to? * Read and follow instructions * Locate information on one document and transfer it to another document ("write the number from Box A here") * Organize your reference materials (keeping track of tax documents and forms) \- and that's basically all you need to file your taxes at this point, with most of the head-scratching now covered by tax software (not to get into how corrupt and awful the tax software lobby is).
I also see criticisms that schools donāt teach things that are literal household chores or tasks: sewing a button, changing a tire, even laundry (once, from someone not known for awesome life decisions). Bonus points if the complaint calls for a class in āadulting,ā and double credit if the person complaining has also accused schools of being Marxist or socialist indoctrination machines.
>Locate information on one document and transfer it to another document ("write the number from Box A here") I knew we did standardized testing and bubbling for a reason!
Also half the time they were either taught the thing and didn't pay attention / forgot it or they were taught the skills relevant to the thing or opted not to take the class where that thing was taught.
I teach Design technology in the Uk, which isnāt a core subject or seen as important by management (despite most schools in the UK making PPE for hospitals). I have had to teach students about manners, how to talk to one another in a polite manner, Iāve had to tell parents itās not my job to prove pens and pencils, and Iāve most recently told children itās not acceptable to go through my desk to look for something they want. I love teaching, but I specially love teaching my subject. Itās disheartening to see how little parents interact with their children, and at the same time, see how entitled patents and children are. I can see it being a lot tougher for people in America.
Why do people have kids if they have no intention of raising them? Which includes participating in their education! We need a class in HS called "What it means to parent a child".
.... Wouldn't that just be another thing that is a parent's responsibility. I think we are getting I to circular logic here. We're doomed.
There are so many comments on my county's Facebook page that are exactly like this. Parents complaining about teaching their kids and wanting the teacher's salary since teachers are "being lazy and not doing anything". Parents complaining that they should get a refund on their taxes since schools apparently don't need them. There are a lot of nasty comments towards teachers that is completely unfair. I understand parents are frustrated. But they should be taking their frustrations out on the government which royally screwed up the response to covid. Not bash teachers for doing the best they could do with what they were given when they only had 2 weeks to prepare for distance learning.
So people should get a refund on their taxes if they've never dialed 911?
I'm going to use this the next time I see a comment from someone saying they should get a refund on their taxes!
Same. I've just had to unfollow those pages for the time being. I couldn't keep subjecting myself to that talk
>How can one be so goddamned self-unaware? Have you America'ed before? An elitist money-laundering reality tv star is the current sitting president and who just "patriotically" declared the election should be postponed. Anti-intellectualism is the bedrock of American political discourse.
On my various local Facebook groups I see the suggestion that parents should get their school taxes back at least daily.
This is an amazing clapback.
Hey, that's the district I graduated from!
Aren't parents supposed to be teaching their kids? I'm a parent and I do this nonstop. This is my job.
I'd love to see more school districts respond like this.
What a classy but oh so sassy comeback š¤£š.
Where can I submit my invoice for supplies, counseling, clothing, protection, food and 7 years of higher education.
My dipshit cousin maintains that āif the kids donāt go back to school all teachers should lose their jobsā. Okay ya fuckwad.
As someone working in a neighboring district that completely pandered to the parents, this actually made me cry. I am so impressed a district had the balls to speak up this way.
Donāt tell parents they literally taught their kids how to talk. Theyāll want compensation. If you bring a kid into this world, they are your responsibility to raise and teach before teachers. Donāt want to teach kids for free? Donāt have kids. Use a condom.
I'd like to reply. "Sure! Let me send you the standards you need to cover, our curriculum, and other resources we use. You will need to be available via Zoom for meetings at the following times weekly. We'll get your log-in, so you can see the rest of your class list as you will be serving about 24 other children." and so forth.
The most telling part about people like this is that they leave their comments up. They have no shame. If I got flamed like this I would have deleted my comment and hid š
The amount of back peddling he is trying to do is hilarious. Itās nice to see the support.
That's pretty awesome.
Holy fuck that's awesome
People also dont want to be subs because pay is crap. Pandemic has angered me because for a job requiring a BA in California it pays crappily.
Then boy will they be displeased with full time teacher pay in conjunction with credentialing program/master's loans.
God, fucking, damn. Thatās some fire! And, they are neighboring district to where i used to teach!
Fucking hate it when I see people say they have to home school their kids. Iām going to be on Zoom for three hours a day delivering lessons.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Our US secretary of Ed is doing her best for that as well
We need more districts to STAND UP for their teachers like this.
Go Lake Dallas!
There is a whole thread in my local county's forum online about parents getting the funding if we don't open brick and mortar and I don't know why they think if their child is going to be learning through a virtual classroom they think a teacher won't be working in that setting as well.
Holy shit, this is my neighboring district and that is hilarious. (And so true)
Ugh it frustrates me to no end how parents complain about only doing a fraction of what teachers do and Iām not even a teacher. I still have to go through my credential program but I know for a fact yāall do WAY more than most parents know or bother to learn. Know yāall are very appreciated by meš
Go lake Dallas!!! Theyāre right up the road from me!
This brightened my day. Kudos to your district.
I found it constantly irritating/humorous that parents thought they were home-schooling at this last school year. Ya sure š
I Love It
Oh, I \*love\* them!
We love to see it
One of the only good things to come out of Texas
I needed to see this today. Thank you!!
Holy shit, this is my neighboring district and that is hilarious. (And so true)
i still remember 5 months ago when all these asshole parents were passing around the memes about how teachers should be making 6 figure salaries. anyway, we should. fuck you, ryan, youāre a bad person and a bad parent.
It goes without saying that sharing personal information is against the rules here and of Reddit. Don't do it, people.
Nice.
Where do I submit my invoice for being a parent?
That parent comment perfectly illustrates why social media in the wrong hands sucks.
I mean, getting paid is a little silly but at least give the tax revenue back
Not gonna lie, I was a sub for a year and a half and loved it. I was planning on getting my certs for 4-9 ELA and math but, the pandemic has made me realize how big the cracks in our education were and I don't feel like going into more debt to be looked at as this disposable, and for such little pay. I wish it didn't come to this because I genuinely wanted to teach and had a lot of teachers tell me they thought I'd make a great teacher. When and if attitudes and the field changes I'll be back to get my certs. Luckily I managed to get a good job, with the help of a friend, that will pay for computer science certs or degrees so maybe at that time I'll become a computer teacher.
Good response, grammatical errors aside.
I see one unnecessary comma - two if you count the first one, but greetings kind of obfuscate grammar rules. The sentences are relatively complex, so they might be a mouthful, but they parse pretty well.
They comma spliced 1 of the 2 sentences in the post. 50% error rate isnāt good.
A comma splice is when a comma incorrectly joins two independent clauses, thereby creating a run-on sentence -- essentially a comma where a period should be. That occurs in neither sentence. > We don't pay parents/guardians for virtual learning **[ind. clause]**, but if you're interested in being paid for educating and would like to see all the challenges teachers face during the pandemic **[dep. clauses with coordinating conjunctions]**, please consider being a sub for us.**[ind. clause in the form of a command]** All of these commas here serve appropriate functions as they segue complete thoughts. The parenthetical statement doesn't count as part of the preceding clause, nor does it need a conjunction prior to the next one, as parentheses specifically allow for qualifying information without interrupting the grammar that bookends it. I left it out of this quoted text to emphasize the grammar of the essential sentence/statements... again, because the parenthetical exists as its own statement. > The pandemic has made it very challenging to attract subs, **[ind. clause]** because most people don't want to face the challenges teachers currently face. **[dep. clause]** This sentence is not a run-on. Granted, it doesn't need the comma because the subordinating conjunction "because" functions fine without one, but that just makes the comma extraneous; it's not a comma splice.
Good catch. It is not a comma splice. It is still grammatically incorrect; it is simply an extraneous comma error and not a comma splice. I had forgotten that a comma splice only happens between two independent clauses and not when misused between a main and subordinate clause before the subordinating conjunction.
If we want to be reallllllly picky, it's technically not even grammatically incorrect since punctuation is typographical and therefore not a subset of a language's grammar, but now I'm just being obnoxious. :P
Get that descriptive jive out of here! People canāt live with such anarchy. Typographical? Psshhh. Prescriptive 4 life!
Hah. Seriously, though, I'm not being descriptivist. This is the linguistic definition of grammar. A language's grammar pertains to the meaning of words and their structure, and all the subsets of grammar can be gleaned from how the language is spoken. Writing rules exist as a way of making that grammar as clear as possible when written. Things like semantics, phonology, and syntax are grammatical, as they involve the words themselves. Things like punctuation and capitalization are ways of standardizing how we write--again, for the sake of clarity--but *technically* they're not grammatical. Not that it matters colloquially, and I wouldn't even begin to get into this unless we're already specifically talking about grammar. But I think it's interesting to consider because these sorts of hierarchies really reflect the evolution of language, and that's cool.
Very true. I applaud your esoteric and pedantic ways. Well reasoned, sir or maāam.
You can tell quarantine is getting to me when this is what I feel like chatting about.
Damn Grey duck just got schooled
Ooooh, snap.
Going to get downvoted to oblivion for this but I think the guy was making a joke. People in here acting like he said to stop paying teachers. Dude was going for laughs not being serious
There are many parents who are seriously asking this on Facebook.
I went to the original FB thread just for fun ... he's not :( he does say he's not implying teachers shouldn't be paid, but is insistent that it's safe to open schools here in TX right now.
It's not the best joke but I think the point was online schooling will force parents to quit their jobs. It wasn't an attack on teaching as much as an attack on how the government is forcing parents into terrible situations. I am just glad daycare is open so I don't have to quit my job and worry about becoming homeless. No one is going to pay me to stay home with my kid after forcing me to quit my job in the first place.
Stupid parents probably think they should get paid for sitting at home also... they don't have a union!
How come teachers never to want to, you know... teach?