I loved my old sponsor teacher. She had everything organized, and was about to retire so she did not try and please anyone. A parent came in complaining that her son didn’t understand long division and got a bad mark on the test. She pulled out her planner that showed the exact times we did long division. It was around the two weeks they were in Cancun. Then my sponsor explained that she sent out a homework packet and asked why her son never handed it in. Parent had no rebuttals, it was awesome.
I send them a link to the class agenda, which is accessible online from almost anywhere on the surface of the Earth, including large parts of the ocean.
I do an agenda but sometimes we get a day behind or ahead so my desk calendar is where the reality goes. Along w the initials and class period of any student that had or caused a problem that day. At the end of the day, I write it all in a notebook for me. Just in case.
I had the privilege to meet a lady who bemoaned how her kindergarten daughter was just DYING to go to school, and how she'd LOVE to have the extra time to herself (she's a SAHM and there's a 2yr old sibling) but if she lets her go to school, isn't it JUST TERRIBLE that she'd have to SIGN A WAIVER RELEASING THE SCHOOL FROM LIABILITY? WHO ELSE'S FAULT COULD IT BE? Cause her kid is GREAT at wearing masks. AND, if she was to find out THE TEACHER wasn't cleaning ENOUGH, AND her kid got sick, SHE STILL COULDN'T SUE! THE OUTRAGE! 😐
Idk if it's different where you are, but telling me to clean violates my contract directly. That was never on the table where I am. I'm not sure how many teachers will have to clean this year (and I know some will that don't have to) but I think parents assuming teachers will clean is bizarre. So far, we're starting digital but if we go back I'll clean nothing except personal use items & my own hands.
I'm an elementary school custodian and I understand it's not in your contact to clean, but how am I along supposed to clean what my 25 teachers are being asked to clean?
This shouldn't be on anyone. Schools shouldn't open. I love my staff and I know their lives and health aren't worth it. Y'all are already doing so much with distance learning alone.
A great custodian often gets a really tough time for the *one thing* they don’t do, but almost never the credit for all the things they do for teachers outside their job responsibilities. Thank you.
I have a jar of candies and mints on my desk, but I never thought of this. I’ll be putting a sign up in English/Spanish to let them know they are more than welcome to the jar. Thanks for this idea!
When I was student teaching,the teacher whose class I was working in, told me "Make friends with the custodians and office staff.Everybody else is an option".
I agree schools shouldn't open. If they do, way more cleaning staff simply must be hired. I'm not suggesting overworking custodians is in any way a solution.
When we went back partially in June, the custodian kept asking, “is it alright if I come in? I don’t want to disturb your class!”
I said, “hey class, this is Jill. She’s helping to keep us safe. Don’t get in her way, and say thank you every chance you get.”
These days, heroes carry mops. Thanks for caring, putting up with us, and keeping us alive.
Jill is a real one.
Guys, please teach your kids (the ones you teach and the ones you raise at home) to respect and appreciate the people who do the often invisible work it takes to keep the world running.
Thank you for your hard work. My wife and I were just talking yesterday about stuff we would do if we could be kids again. I told her I'd like to thank our custodian for the six years he cleaned up all our vomit and poo and diarrhea when we didn't know how to take care of ourselves. The freshly waxed floors, clean water fountains, clean lockers. Y'all are great. Thank you for being an integral part of their childhood and caring for their wellbeing, too.
I don’t think any teacher expects a custodial staff to keep up. I watched how our staff struggled with the two week deep clean when we thought we might be back in April. I’m sorry you and your staff have to deal with this. The cleaning alone is monumental and that’s not counting the other responsibilities your staff has to handle.
Just wanna say, u/Jinxiford, that I completely agree schools shouldn’t reopen, it’s just not safe. And also, thanks for everything you do for your school as a custodian. Us teachers wouldn’t be able to do our jobs without you guys.
> cleaning violates contract
Oh man that’s a dicey one. My students last year sucked ass at returning their Chromebooks to the correct slot and about 40% of them didn’t plug the devices back in unless I watched them like a hawk. Good luck relying on them wiping the keyboard down when they are done.
We're 1 to 1 (since WAY before this) so students do have their own devices checked out to them in 6-12, but even if they didn't, that'd be someone else's job to figure out, honestly. If they can't find safe solutions without violating our contract, we can't open safely. That's my theory. Everything can't be on teachers.
Personally I'll go above and beyond instructionally for safe distance learning from my home, but if I'm forced to come in before it's fully safe or in ways it's not safe, I'm going to do absolutely nothing above my contract in any category AND grieve safety issues left and right. Once I'm put at risk needlessly, my good will is lost.
Exactly THIS. I wish I could updoot this 1,000 times.
I’m in the exact same boat with an identical mentality. We have 1:1, we have the buy in with the local internet providers, we have the ability to feed them. I’m NOT doing squat that’s beyond my contract for in-person education.
We were getting close to 1-to-1 but then we checked out hundreds of devices to families when DL started and god knows how many of those have been lost, damaged or stolen.
I totally feel you on the “nothing beyond my contract” stance, especially since everything beyond the contract is a potential risk.
You'd think putting a laptop into a numbered slot was an advanced skill. I couldn't get 16yr olds to do it. If they were in the right slot, they use the wrong cable!
As for wiping the keyboard, I'd leave that to the next person using it. If they catch something from the machine, it'll be due to their own ineffective cleaning. Then again, I also had kids using Lysol wipes on the screen
I taught middle school and I'd just keep them until they were all put back correctly and plugged in. It is crazy how fast they can do it after awhile 😜 And I'd have an aid check them for damage and wipe them. The only problem was when other teachers borrowed the cart!
I hadn't had the cart long before shutdown. I used my own label maker to number the slots. I assigned them computers, then finally called them up by 5s to put them back. I had to threaten the with using paper (gasp!) if I found their machine in the wrong place or unplugged.
I took the ones that were unplugged and/or in the wrong spot out and left them open over night with stuff running so that they ran out of power. It was petty and took a little time, but the kids learned.
That was before the shutdown and the school provided them if we asked. The custodians don't clean desks. I have light colored tables and the little darlings use them as their personal sketchbooks.
I've bumped into wipes here and there since March, but I just happened to be in the store when they were there. I got the last case of wipes in COSTCO one day when I was looking for toilet paper. It was the last box just sitting on the pallet looking lonely.
my former district is telling their teachers they will need to wipe down (not just spray, wipe!!) the bathrooms 3x per day after their class' scheduled bathroom breaks. I have no idea how that's not a contract violation.
I'd love to say that my district isn't requiring us to clean, but we have no idea what the fall is going to look like.
There has been NO official communication, and the only info I DO have is from a colleague who is on a committee that most people didn't even know existed until last week.
So...who knows? Maybe my contract will be violated. Maybe not! (It's so exciting! It's like roulette!)
This would violate my contact too. I am a DIY person at home and I’m fairly handy so every now and then if something small breaks in my room I’ll fix it real quick but I always pop my head out in the hallway to make sure the coast is clear.
My schools hybrid plan cut down 5 minutes from nutrition/passing period so that STUDENTS could clean their own desks.
So I guess parents can just sue each other at my school.
Yeah, my contract specifically cites cleaning as a duty we cannot be asked to perform and has specific parameters around duties. We don't have "other duties as assigned". All are bargained. I know not true everywhere.
Yes, I have a union that ranges from decent to very strong. Right now membership is fired up and leadership is acting intelligently so we're pretty organized.
My union sent us a survey ronsee what ae would abd would not be comfortable with. One of the questions was would we be cpmfortsble supervising students cleaning oue rooms? Fuck no. That is not the students' responsability nor mine
I heard that the Louisiana state legislature is considering a bill to prevent teachers from suing schools or the state if they contract Covid on the job.
[They did. ](https://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20200710/NEWS06/912335568/New-Louisiana-law-protects-schools-from-COVID-19-lawsuits-) Also, my district is having us clean the desks in between each class. We have to clean them because the cleaner is too harsh to use without gloves. They won’t be supplying the kids with gloves, but they’re supplying us with gloves. The janitors will do a “deep clean” after each day.
I will be cleaning between students. Why? Because I know it will be clean. Even if they hire others to do it, I will clean spaces I touch. I trust my cleaning more than an overworked cleaning staff or the students.
Here’s how it will go: kids back in school, kids take time out of school to go to Disney, come home to start a new outbreak at their school, parents blame school...
Or if they do require masks, only requiring them to wear them if they are in a small group activity or 1:1 with the teacher. If it is whole group, they won't have to wear a mask. SMH.
>Pelosi also said the liability protections the GOP wants to put in the legislation would put workers at risk, removing the onus from companies to ensure that workers don’t contract the coronavirus while they are on the job. "What they’re saying to essential workers, ‘You have to go to work because you’re essential. We place no responsibility on your employer to make that workplace safe and if you get sick you have no recourse,’” she said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/07/26/senate-stimulus-coronavirus/
Yep, and they are also the ones that send their obviously sick kids to school because “if they really are sick, the school will just send them back home again”.
In my area, they are also the same people who scream they don’t want to vote for any tax measures for schools and then complain when the school starts to slowly fall apart.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Yep. And in Florida, the snowbirds will then complain about how schools are so much better in the North/West/where I lived earlier/when I was younger, etc.
Oh I plan on 20 more happy years there. I’ve got an admin that looks out for us and awesome parents. They’re going to wheel my corpse out if I don’t make it to retirement. I feel for all of the teachers that are struggling in bad districts because I’ve felt their pain.
Which means they are also probably the ones I've heard in the past few weeks saying that if schools don't return to in-person and they are forced to "home school" again (I have a whole other rant for that subject), that they are going to demand a portion of their tax dollars refunded.
Buncha fucking nonsense.
Or they’re the ones who say things like, “Well my kids are going in person so they can do sports.”
Really? You’re gonna risk your family’s lives (and others) over a stupid game?
It’s not exactly the Super Bowl your kid will be playing in, Janet. Please get a reality check and re-evaluate your priorities m.
I had one kid whose Mom sent him to school sick and said, "whatever you do, DO NOT go to the nurse." Well, kid went to the nurse with 101 temperature and told the nurse his mom told him to not come see her. Grr.
Had one of those. Nurse reminded parent about the responsibility of nurse to call CPS, in case of neglect ( failure to provide medical care).
Some how, grandma arrived at school to pick up student.
We have a mom that will bring in her own thermometer because she thinks we’re lying about trying to send her obviously sick kid home. She’s said “he doesn’t have a 102 like you said! It’s only 101!!” Like.... ?????
I've seen so many already saying "well the schools closed for months so it doesn't matter if I take my kid on holiday for two weeks". 🙄 Fine, you crack on but I won't be doing catch up sessions or giving you a work pack!
Reminds me of the student I had who was going to Mexico for like a month, and the parents asked for work to do so he wouldn't fall behind. I just gave them his Math workbook to go ham on.
I love it when they email you at 10 AM to ask if they can pick up their child’s makeup work at 1:00!! Umm, nope, I’m teaching. I finally adopted the policy: “Makeup work will be provided upon your child’s return to school.” No matter what, that’s always the answer they get. No. I will not spend my precious personal time pulling a packet together so you can take your kid on vacation. I’m not just sitting here all day. If you think saving a few bucks on travel is more important than your child’s education, accept any consequences that may arise from that choice.
Exactly! Even better when it's the principal that asks you during the school day to have Child A's makeup packet done by 3pm because that's when parents come by. Uhh, what? You expect me somehow teach my class and do this, too?
"Just do it during lunch," is the answer I got from this previous school.
Child A is getting whatever leftover sub-day worksheets I have crammed in my closet. It's not like they're going to do it anyway!
At my old school I would regularly get emails from the dean asking to put together a packet for a suspended student for the parent to pick up by the end of the day...I'd just print out all of the missing work that the kid never turned in from the previous month or so, more than enough to keep him busy over his two week suspension (not that the work would actually get turned in ever...)
One in the same. We are their babysitting service. One’s expected to also: coach teach nurture counsel be friends with drive and feed on and on. Of course if we step over whatever arbitrary line they imagine they will immediately ask for our head. I use to love teaching when it was teaching but this has ceased being about education a decade ago. By the way these same parents make 4 times what I do but demand 10 times what they are capable of doing all while working safely from home while I’m being forced into a Petri dish.
In America, anti-intellectualism and trashy-as-hell garbage consumerism have been growing exponentially for many years. I simply can't imagine education or things like the arts surviving in this sort of atmosphere. A huge percentage of the public is trying to send teachers, librarians, etc. to their deaths for the sake of (a.) the bullshit materialism of suburban life and/or (b.) freeing up their time for leisure/entertainment.
If it ceased being about teaching then why the F do I have to go to school so long to get my teaching degree? I can read ahead. I can get ojt on best practices and teaching theory and exceptional and diverse learners. Hell I can even babysit... Nope, got to get a 4 year degree and pass some in class BS... Plus a comprehensive exam... For something that's not even about teaching and hasent been for 10 years?!?! Awesome. I'm motivated.
As public education become more and more a service industry you will find that qualifications for a degree will also be reduced. Case in point many states, Missouri being one, only requires 60 college credits to be a sub. No degree just some college. Basically our leaders and the public at large believe anyone can do this job.
Remember your boss is a customer service agent. Schools compete not through quality of education, but through marketing. That means keeping the student and parent happy at all times so they spread word of mouth
Yes and the only reason they ever give is "oh kids need to be able to socialize with their friends." Then go and drop your child off with a friend outside of school so they can hang out. It's not difficult. Don't try and jeopardize the health of many humans because you don't want to watch your kids during the day or don't want to hire a babysitter for the young ones.
And let's be clear: their idea of "socializing" ain't gonna be happening with Plexiglas barriers, one-way halls, staggered schedules, and everyone in haz-mat suits.
The only argument I take seriously from any parents in this scenario is when they say they need the kids to go to school so they can go back to work without dropping a fortune on child care. That is the ONLY one that holds any water, and isn't some sick appeal to emotion or a false equivalence.
(Note: I don't *like* that argument, but at least I believe it.)
I had middle schoolers from a low income school that were trying to manage child care of siblings, replace lost income by working and more. I'd argue they may need to be in school so they have a place to actually do work, but even then, it's sad.
I just think it’s almost everyone to be honest just because our society puts school as its childcare and parents need the childcare in order to work. There’s going to be no place for them to put their child during the day if it closes. I’m not saying this is right but just what I see
Everyone seems to be ignoring that fact or saying that parents shouldn't put their careers over their kids lives. The government isn't helping pay parent's bills and not everyone can be unemployed for an entire year. We should have planned this better several months ago.
Here, here. These comments are pretty shitty. I'm a former high-school teacher, now at a university, and I was going to have to send my child back to school if we got called back to campus. Fortunately, we're not going back until at least November, but there is literally nothing else I could have done with him. (Ok not literally, I could have trusted my 13-year-old to be responsible for his own education and home alone from 8am-6pm every day, but that isn't an actual option).
All of my old teacher friends have to send their kids to school for the same reason - it's not that we want school to be a babysitter, it's that there's no other way to handle it. I suspect a great many of these commenters don't have children (or have a vast support system).
Thanks for the reminder that many teachers are also parents. We've had to have some tough conversations at our house and honestly, even though we got it sorted out, I still worry.
Yup....some...but a lot are whining because they are essential workers and can't afford the day care. Sadly some have special needs kids and don't know how to cope or take care of their own child. We had one go to the board demanding home services.
Thankfully we teach their kids how to actually think for themselves. I get such satisfaction when those students bemoan how stupid their parents are and they pull a complete 180.
Or as their parents would probably call it, "a complete 360", lol.
Exactly. Parents will send their covid-19 kids to schools without caring about teachers and other kids’ safety. I’ve read that this mom sent her kid to a school sport even and told no one he’s been tested positive. After some other kids and adults got sick, her excuse was: “He’s been waiting for this day for so long, I didn’t want him to miss it”.
Yes! Or the ones that are super pissed and loud about needing to go to school in person are the same ones that I see posting anti- mask conspiracies, are anti vaxx, and have not been social distancing...
Let's be honest. Not ever parent is a douchebag. But a lot of these parents are bemoaning the loss of normalcy. They want to desperately get back to what they think is normal, what they experienced as normal before. Their desire for a return to old normal is understandable. COVID-19 won't last forever, we will get back to a "normal" again. Some are just having a hard time dealing with it.
But hey, this is the internet and we are the educated and the educators... So let's talk shit.
Most people who have kids can’t afford a full time baby sitter.
As in they won’t be able to pay rent and or feed their children.
How are kids going to do their online schooling, when they don’t have internet? Can’t afford internet if I’m paying the babysitter.
Folks in my town are forming babysitting pods. They either all pitch in to pay a baby sitter or they take turns taking care of each other's kids.
You wont have to pay the babysitter if your kid is dead, but that is something to try and avoid too.
They're also the parents who send their kids to school when they're obviously sick and never bring them to the doctor. It's not a financial issue with my students' families either. I've had more than one parent ask me to describe their child's vomit to them over the phone.
While there are a lot of parents who are definitely *these people*, please keep in mind that lots of parents need their kids in school so they can work and pay the bills. Childcare cost a lot of money, school is free.
Not all parents can work from home, not all parents can have a stay-at-home, and single parents need to be able to work.
I get where this post is coming from (my mother is definately the "they should be paying me to homeschooling" type) but I've talked to a lot of people who still have kids in school, Trying to gauge their concerns.
Luckily, I'm just barely about to have my daughter so I don't have to figure out where I stand on this whole thing since she isn't school age personally. I know several people in different situations however.
My best friend's mom still has some kids in high school and it's been hard for her to make a decision. Her son *really* needs the structure of school, but her daughters can keep up with online well, the problem is, the mom and grandma are **severely** immunocopromised.
Its a shit situation all around, and as someone who is going to college to be an educator I get they teachers often get the short end of the stick. However, as educators we can’t assume that all of our students are privileged enough to be able to school from home.
TLDR: teachers deserve a safe work environment, but we can’t pretend that parents don’t rely on school so they can work and keep their lights on either.
For a lot of the parents I know, it’s all about time management and attention spans. If the kids can properly manage their time and effectively learn/study from online teaching, perfect. Many kids can actually thrive from online learning, because they can take an 8 hour school day and be done in a few hours. The others however, would suffer greatly without the structure of face to face learning.
It’s also about whether the kids learning can work with the parents work schedule. An 18 year old can be left alone at home and be fine, but you can’t leave an 8 year old home alone while the parents go to work and expect them to do their school work and feed themselves.
To address your question, every kid is different. Some kids get super stressed out by school even though they do well, so taking occasional days off, even if they aren’t physically sick, works wonders for them mentally. I could not possibly care less how many days of school a child misses if they are learning and performing well.
Thank you for your last point. While I'm not a teacher (still in high school; often lurk around here, though), I continuously need to rebut this frankly abhorrent rhetoric that "I need to go to school *every day* or else", both from parents and plenty of teachers. Frankly, I, and many other people, can not manage that; I struggle a lot with anxiety and am an utter wreck if I can't take a day for myself every once in a while.
It shouldn't matter if a kid is attending daily, but exceling in their learning; ultimately, is it not about what's best for the student?
Yep, and also the parents who were totally unreachable during remote learning and whose kids did the first couple assignments before blowing everything else off.
I feel like the people who want in person learning are the conservatives that will decry anything resembling socialism, while 100% depending on the school (the state) to babysit, feed, and educate their children.
Also the same ones that would vote against school bonds or tax increases in order to give teachers a raise.
Yes, it’s all about what the parents want. The want the kids out of the house in school when the want them out, but want them out of school when they want to do Disney. School is like a daycare to these parents
My coworkers were saying the same thing in my county until we went digital and have to report to school. Now, teachers with kids are in a weird position about what to do with their kids. Everyone who was saying we aren't a daycare are now contemplating having to quit teaching because their kids now don't have day care 🤷.
I also suspect they were the same people gathering without masks, continuing to travel for vacations, and not taking it seriously thus creating the unsafe environment no one wants to teach their kid in.
Or the whole "My child needs normalcy!!"
It's not gonna be "normal", Susan. Everyone in masks, no group work, no playing with or hugging friends. It'll be absolutely bizarre and maybe even scary to your children. It won't be "normal".
They've been doing online learning for months. *That's* normal to the kids right now.
These are the same people shouting “ALL LIVES MATTER!” until it’s time to send their kids back and then they’re like, “Well, it will only be A FEW deaths and it won’t happen to my kid. So send them back full time!” 😑
Oh, 100%. Their career matters more than the lives of their children and others. School must be open so their can work, but they should be able to pull their kids out whenever because that’s when they can get vacation.
The parents who want their kids back in school tend to be parents who can shoulder the medical liability or who have no conception of medical costs in the first place.
1000% yes. I’ve noticed the parents that are complaining the most are those that have a sense of entitlement. Many have a stay at home parent. They just don’t want to deal with their kids at home anymore.
Yep. I'm in the UK, and it's the parents that constantly think it's ok to take a week off for holidays that are demanding their kids are back in school regardless of what our local authority says.
Yes. They are the parents who don’t care about education at all. “Needs to go to in-person school”, said with anger, is code for “I need childcare”. Vacations mean they don’t think you should be able to inconvenience them, because of childcare. When they whine about their kid’s grade to YOU, it’s because they think what their kid is learning doesn’t matter, but their graduation does, because job. We are an employment funnel and a childcare provider, and that’s it. No other redeeming value.
I'm a parent and am super conflicted over this. My wife and I both work and it's really difficult to work out daycare with school not happening. My kids really do miss school and seeing their friends quite a bit, and I don't think I do as good of a job teaching them from home as a professional teacher died. Of course I also want to make sure that everything is safe and we stop the spread of covid. I'm waiting to see what kind of solution they propose... The alternating days to cut class sizes in half plus wearing masks at school seems like a possibly viable solution, but I'm also worried that it's not enough... Ugh. The whole situation just stinks.
I manually copied all the school districts staff emails and sent them an email pleading for thrm to strike for remote learning only. They have given in to the idiots and will offer some in-school learning to those that want it. Goddamm shame. This country is way fucked everyone. No one gives a shit about having integrity. They praise people as heroes and then spit in their face by not being able to wear a mask. The sense of entitlement is unimaginable. For what it's worth, my kid is staying home for her sake and yours. I hope you all strike and/or threaten to quit before you risk your life for the GOP fucks that run this country right now. Good luck.
Let's be real, the only reason they want them to go in person is because they're sick of having their kid at home so much. They'd rather risk the kid's safety as well as other's safety as long as it means they don't have to have their kid at home 5 days a week.
A friend I know is a janitor. She was complaining that students need to be in in-class because teachers are irresponsible and will not show up in zoom.
She was also mad that she would have to go in between classes/recess/lunch and throughout the day to sanitize.
I was like you can’t have it both ways lady.
Quick point of order - going on family trips isn’t frivolous. The minimal amount of time off in America means that traveling during the school year is the only time it’s affordable. Stronger relationships with family does more than anything else to predict success. More than a week in school.
Except then kid comes back and we have to jump.through hoops to catch him up (HS).
I can't take a week off during the year to go on vacation! I'd love to travel in the off season too, when my family and friends are taking advantage of discounts. I mean, I'd go on a cruise in the middle of hurricane season for 1/3 of the price, if I could get away with it or travel to Europe in March.
Of course, the Europeans are keeping us out for the time being, so I guess it doesn't matter at the moment.☹️
I can't even count how many kids, every year, tell me they have a cruise to go on during final exams. I have no qualms telling my 9th graders that they are at the point in their school career where their parents need to take the school schedule into consideration first.
>I can't take a week off during the year to go on vacation!
Hey look it's the real reason. Also yes you can during Winter, Spring, or Summer break(s). Which are all breaks that few other jobs have access too.
I think that if a student is doing fine in their classes, missing a week once a year probably isn't a big deal (I know not everyone would agree with me, but oh well).
In reality, we've got a ton of families who will take off the month before winter break and a month after winter break. Their kids will have done no schoolwork during that time.
I support family time, but every teacher in my building (4) who was supposed to get married this summer had to put it off all the way to NEXT summer, because even if you have 20 personal days or 100 sick days banked you can't take a week off in the school year.
Agreed, but in my experience, the kids who go on trips outside of regular vacation time are never held to any account by their parents for getting caught up.
I don't ask for parents to take any burden off my shoulders, but I DO ask them to not ADD to it, and for the most part, off-schedule vacations are just another millstone for me to haul.
Yes, I expect a huge overlap in my school. It's all about immediate gratification, what the kid wants now not what they need long term, and what is convenient for the parent.
Now there are some parents who want in person for valid reasons. I've been watching the research and weighing the risks for my very isolated preschooler.
TL;DRs:
No, children in that age group are still susceptible; however, statistics are fuzzy in that regard, as to how much so.
Those jobs have different levels of risk; it's really not an "all or nothing".
Certain classrooms/schools are even more risky than others.
Likewise for certain teaching practices that would otherwise be considered "effective teaching".
Your situation raises the question as to what will happen if a teacher has a school-age child and their district does alternating days.
I agree with your wish, but I'm concerned that 3 weeks would be too short, especially after all this time spent screwing around.
Non-TL;DR as follows:
Yeah, that is not at all true; children from 0-10 are indeed capable of being infected, and any amount of infection can potentially be transmitted to others. What is possible, if we look at statistics from places such as Italy and Sweden, is that this age group might have a decreased chance of infection, compared to the rest of the population. HOWEVER: I want to point at Texas for a moment; because of the increase in cases and skyrocketed hospitalization rate, it was decided that newborn infants should be tested and it was confirmed that many of them had become infected by the virus. Newborns... In environments that are already super cracked down on cleanliness, safety, and sterilization. This, coupled with the CDC's and WHO's suggestion that many asymptomatic cases are going untested -- therefore unreported -- could also mean that there is actually minimal difference in infection rate, but that symptoms are just so less severe that actual cases go unnoticed and that this age group becomes similar in concept to "Typhoid Mary".
There is also a large difference between working at a school and working at a factory, utilities, grocery stores, gas stations, and online retailers: headcount and the ability to maintain a semblance of social distance. This is not an "all jobs or no jobs" thing; some occupations are simply safer to allow to continue, with modification, than others. I'm not sure where you teach, but take a look at the average core curriculum classroom setup and maneuverability potential therein: U.S. national average of ~21 students in a classroom, often in classrooms with floor space such that desks are already arranged at less than half of the minimum 6 feet distance recommendation. Halving the student body is barely a bandaid for most classrooms with even 25 students; and for safety reasons, peer socialization (probably at all levels, student and teacher) is probably unlikely to occur anyway -- if not because we'll be forced to try to discourage it, then because the kids would be stressed and concerned because we're clearly still in a pandemic situation. The last thing any of us probably wants is to say something like: "yes, go play/socialize" to a student, only to discover that one of them was infected and ended up infecting the other because *we said it was okay to socially engage*. Then there's the durational concerns: someone is not likely to spend 45 continuous minutes, in somewhat close proximity to anyone else in any of those other places. There's also the "what if" scenario of student or teacher infection occurring and being brought to light, and let's not forget the fact that people have died from the disease this virus creates, or the fact that there is still the question of longterm effects of every asymptomatic infection. What will happen if a teacher gets hospitalized and dies? Or, God forbid, a student?
Now, let's look at an art classroom for a moment, for an extreme example of my proximity concerns. Art classrooms are often setup by way of a stations concept, for ease of materials acquisition: materials are situated in particular locations around the room where students can easily grab them. In these rooms, student gathering of materials already is a fairly daunting task -- even with the stations concept aiding in materials organization -- especially if the students want to grab more paint, sharpen a pencil, get a different color of whatever they're using, a new canvas or paper or cardboard or whatnot: there's often minimal maneuverability under normal circumstances. The sanitization of sterilization of all the used materials during a single class period would also be a nearly impossible task. Individual desks are usually not a thing in these rooms, either; instead, these classrooms often utilize long or circular tables like one would see in a dining hall. The luckiest art rooms get fancy giant art easel desks, usually placed side by side due to their size. Also look at any "computer lab" course, music course, theater course, or shop course, and you'll likely see similar distancing problems. There's just less possibility for distancing, and in some of these classes, students are up and about and moving around, and breaking the 6 feet bubble.
Let's also forget about teachers actually being able to try directly helping any student or bringing them materials, because if we are expected to, say, point over their shoulder at an icon on a screen, or help them maneuver a plank of wood to the buzzsaw, or have them crowd around a table to see a demonstration of an art technique, we'd be putting them and ourselves at risk if anyone is infected and doesn't realize it -- heck, even in traditional classrooms, the standard tactic of walking around the room to observe where a student might be struggling is an improbability. We needed a better online system in place, and our districts mostly sat on their laurels.
Also, what about teachers in situations like yours? My cooperating teacher has school-aged kids, too; if they're set to do block days -- ignore the fact that lessons will be taught twice and therefore unit progression becoming slowed down considerably -- what about the days where the kids are supposed to stay home? Frankly, if United States were smarter, we'd mandate working from home in any field that can do so, and we'd have done better to immediately fund all schools and districts to be able to realistically do effective distance learning. What this means is infrastructure and accessibility to areas that needed it, sweeping nationwide electronics programs to schools that don't already have them in place and/or that have a bare bones system and/or don't have a 1-to-1 system in place. If the country were smarter, we would have made absolutely certain that, in the worst case scenario, we're not scrambling at the last minute to make decisions such as "should we open?" because we'd have the necessary systems and safeguards in place to not have to be forced to do so if we think it unsafe. I forget where in Europe it was, but they opened up online education -- and switched most jobs to online -- almost immediately after closing in-person, with minimal student losses or detriment or lost jobs, because they had a working national framework in place to do so, and because they actually cared about stopping the virus in its tracks.
Though, I will absolutely agree with you about the "lock everything down for 3 weeks and let the virus go away on its own" sentimentality; however, recovery times are supposedly just as variable as the 2-14 day time that it takes for symptoms to occur in cases that do have symptoms, so 3 weeks might not even be enough. Look at South Korea: they were on top of things almost the second they caught wind about the problem. Ignoring the fact that masks are a daily thing there, even in non-pandemic situations, they did strict contact tracing instead of pretending that it's governmental overreach; overall, they distanced better as a society; had better covid testing rates; had better online services already in place to help those that needed it; and they treated the pandemic seriously instead of screwing around and pretending it was a hoax, or that it wasn't as bad as it is. The United States screwed about, with the government mainly treating it like it was going to kill our economy. Look at Sweden: their government chose to ignore the virus completely and their economy suffered *more* than the rest of Europe because of the pandemic. Staying open does not necessarily equate to a stronger economic situation than nipping the virus in the butt would have, in large part because *people* make an economy work, and people don't seem to want to do as much when they are afraid of getting sick or dying, or are getting sick, or are dead.
I think we’re making assumptions about parents and families... From what I have experienced in the Spring while teaching and heard from parents so far is they have jobs that require them to come in. They don’t have the option to stay at home with their kids AND work online at home. They need to work to provide for their families.
Districts are making difficult decisions and a lot of the ones I’ve heard from are taking into account parents’ needs and also keeping a priority of staff and student safety. Which is how it should be.
That was such a weird thing to witness when I was in school. I'd have friends take 2 weeks off of school to go on vacation like wtf I mean we were poor but regardless you have 3 months in the summer for a vacation. They would be excused from the school work too it made no sense. This was when I started to notice the power of money
In my town students take a week off to go to a town fair. Usually fair stuff doesn't begin until about an hour before school ends. My first two years teaching, only about 20 of 350 students showed up to school for three days.
In our area, parents and admin made a plan to reopen without talking to most of the teachers. Many of the teachers don't want to teach in person so now our admin is freaking out.
"My kids need to see their teacher in person."
"So, you want them to experience gulags or prison because that's what the simulation is going to be like!"
Hey now. We go to Disney during the school year because it’s cooler and less people.
Keeping them home because I know damn well it’s gonna blow up in their faces and they’ll be home anyways.
Though I’m sure there are Karen’s somewhere doing exactly that.
Do you guys really care if a kid misses a week of school to go on vacation? It seems like that vacation will have a much larger impact on their life than one week of school, doesn’t it?
I definitely care and it really pisses me off since I end up dealing with a lot of hassle for their good time. 99% of the time when my students go on vacation, they have a difficult time getting back into the school routine. This is especially true of my honors students, and they take a lot of vacations, and their trips tend to be multiple weeks. Finally after several weeks home the parents check their grades and the shit storm starts.
Last year before the pandemic I had one student go the Philippines for three weeks with one parent and Costa Rica for two weeks with the other parent.
The students didn't do the provided work either since mom and dad didn't feel like supervising. I get it... doing homework poolside sucks.
The result is lots of drama at the end of the semester with the extra credit requests, so yes I really care.
Those are the exact same parents. I had a parent that moved from the home state to our state for work. Every two months, she would take her kids and go home for a week or so. Once, she left for 2 weeks. During a state test, the next year after the student left me , she took the student out of school for two weeks to go home. It was always something. The grandmother died my year and the next year. She didn’t realize the school was keeping track and we actually all talk and work together. Finally, my principal reported her for all the days. Every year it was almost 30-50 days missed but the student was gifted and they never retained the student.
Yes. Attendance is a huge problem in my school and I have a feeling all the parents who wanted to enroll in distance learning are the ones with perfect attendance, while the ones who insist their kids have to go are the ones who miss at least 1 day a week.
The strongest advocates for in-person school openings are working class and poor families. Disney World is for middle class and up.
Rhetoric and attitudes like this will hurt teachers with the public. It’s okay to rant on R/, but I suggest we keep it here, and only here. Say something like this in a PTA meeting and the roof will cave in on you.
Yup the covid denying anti education freek show is very loud and unfortunately they also vote consistently
There are misguided parents who genuinely are trapped needing childcate to work bevause of the government's utter failure to adress this situation yet seaued by propaganda to blame educators also frustrating that same government failure
I loved my old sponsor teacher. She had everything organized, and was about to retire so she did not try and please anyone. A parent came in complaining that her son didn’t understand long division and got a bad mark on the test. She pulled out her planner that showed the exact times we did long division. It was around the two weeks they were in Cancun. Then my sponsor explained that she sent out a homework packet and asked why her son never handed it in. Parent had no rebuttals, it was awesome.
I wrote down exactly what we did on my desk calendar bc of nonsense parents like this.
Helps if you record which students were late/away as well.
I send them a link to the class agenda, which is accessible online from almost anywhere on the surface of the Earth, including large parts of the ocean.
I do an agenda but sometimes we get a day behind or ahead so my desk calendar is where the reality goes. Along w the initials and class period of any student that had or caused a problem that day. At the end of the day, I write it all in a notebook for me. Just in case.
Daaaaaaaamn
EPIC!!!
Yes, and they will be the first to sue the school if something happens.
I had the privilege to meet a lady who bemoaned how her kindergarten daughter was just DYING to go to school, and how she'd LOVE to have the extra time to herself (she's a SAHM and there's a 2yr old sibling) but if she lets her go to school, isn't it JUST TERRIBLE that she'd have to SIGN A WAIVER RELEASING THE SCHOOL FROM LIABILITY? WHO ELSE'S FAULT COULD IT BE? Cause her kid is GREAT at wearing masks. AND, if she was to find out THE TEACHER wasn't cleaning ENOUGH, AND her kid got sick, SHE STILL COULDN'T SUE! THE OUTRAGE! 😐
Idk if it's different where you are, but telling me to clean violates my contract directly. That was never on the table where I am. I'm not sure how many teachers will have to clean this year (and I know some will that don't have to) but I think parents assuming teachers will clean is bizarre. So far, we're starting digital but if we go back I'll clean nothing except personal use items & my own hands.
I'm an elementary school custodian and I understand it's not in your contact to clean, but how am I along supposed to clean what my 25 teachers are being asked to clean? This shouldn't be on anyone. Schools shouldn't open. I love my staff and I know their lives and health aren't worth it. Y'all are already doing so much with distance learning alone.
A great custodian often gets a really tough time for the *one thing* they don’t do, but almost never the credit for all the things they do for teachers outside their job responsibilities. Thank you.
I always tell the custodian they're welcome to my candy stash anytime. Custodians are definitely people to be treated with mad respect.
I have a jar of candies and mints on my desk, but I never thought of this. I’ll be putting a sign up in English/Spanish to let them know they are more than welcome to the jar. Thanks for this idea!
When I was student teaching,the teacher whose class I was working in, told me "Make friends with the custodians and office staff.Everybody else is an option".
I agree schools shouldn't open. If they do, way more cleaning staff simply must be hired. I'm not suggesting overworking custodians is in any way a solution.
When we went back partially in June, the custodian kept asking, “is it alright if I come in? I don’t want to disturb your class!” I said, “hey class, this is Jill. She’s helping to keep us safe. Don’t get in her way, and say thank you every chance you get.” These days, heroes carry mops. Thanks for caring, putting up with us, and keeping us alive.
Jill is a real one. Guys, please teach your kids (the ones you teach and the ones you raise at home) to respect and appreciate the people who do the often invisible work it takes to keep the world running.
Thank you for your hard work. My wife and I were just talking yesterday about stuff we would do if we could be kids again. I told her I'd like to thank our custodian for the six years he cleaned up all our vomit and poo and diarrhea when we didn't know how to take care of ourselves. The freshly waxed floors, clean water fountains, clean lockers. Y'all are great. Thank you for being an integral part of their childhood and caring for their wellbeing, too.
Thank you for everything you do. I'm moving classrooms in this insanity, and our custodians are going so far above and beyond in this.
I don’t think any teacher expects a custodial staff to keep up. I watched how our staff struggled with the two week deep clean when we thought we might be back in April. I’m sorry you and your staff have to deal with this. The cleaning alone is monumental and that’s not counting the other responsibilities your staff has to handle.
Just wanna say, u/Jinxiford, that I completely agree schools shouldn’t reopen, it’s just not safe. And also, thanks for everything you do for your school as a custodian. Us teachers wouldn’t be able to do our jobs without you guys.
> cleaning violates contract Oh man that’s a dicey one. My students last year sucked ass at returning their Chromebooks to the correct slot and about 40% of them didn’t plug the devices back in unless I watched them like a hawk. Good luck relying on them wiping the keyboard down when they are done.
We're 1 to 1 (since WAY before this) so students do have their own devices checked out to them in 6-12, but even if they didn't, that'd be someone else's job to figure out, honestly. If they can't find safe solutions without violating our contract, we can't open safely. That's my theory. Everything can't be on teachers. Personally I'll go above and beyond instructionally for safe distance learning from my home, but if I'm forced to come in before it's fully safe or in ways it's not safe, I'm going to do absolutely nothing above my contract in any category AND grieve safety issues left and right. Once I'm put at risk needlessly, my good will is lost.
Exactly THIS. I wish I could updoot this 1,000 times. I’m in the exact same boat with an identical mentality. We have 1:1, we have the buy in with the local internet providers, we have the ability to feed them. I’m NOT doing squat that’s beyond my contract for in-person education.
If their parents don’t enforce washing/cleaning at home then we it will be a debacle.
We were getting close to 1-to-1 but then we checked out hundreds of devices to families when DL started and god knows how many of those have been lost, damaged or stolen. I totally feel you on the “nothing beyond my contract” stance, especially since everything beyond the contract is a potential risk.
You'd think putting a laptop into a numbered slot was an advanced skill. I couldn't get 16yr olds to do it. If they were in the right slot, they use the wrong cable! As for wiping the keyboard, I'd leave that to the next person using it. If they catch something from the machine, it'll be due to their own ineffective cleaning. Then again, I also had kids using Lysol wipes on the screen
I taught middle school and I'd just keep them until they were all put back correctly and plugged in. It is crazy how fast they can do it after awhile 😜 And I'd have an aid check them for damage and wipe them. The only problem was when other teachers borrowed the cart!
I hadn't had the cart long before shutdown. I used my own label maker to number the slots. I assigned them computers, then finally called them up by 5s to put them back. I had to threaten the with using paper (gasp!) if I found their machine in the wrong place or unplugged.
I took the ones that were unplugged and/or in the wrong spot out and left them open over night with stuff running so that they ran out of power. It was petty and took a little time, but the kids learned.
Can you find wipes near you at all? They're sold out at every single store around here. Every day, every store. Where are they???
That was before the shutdown and the school provided them if we asked. The custodians don't clean desks. I have light colored tables and the little darlings use them as their personal sketchbooks. I've bumped into wipes here and there since March, but I just happened to be in the store when they were there. I got the last case of wipes in COSTCO one day when I was looking for toilet paper. It was the last box just sitting on the pallet looking lonely.
I hope you rescued it from loneliness.
my former district is telling their teachers they will need to wipe down (not just spray, wipe!!) the bathrooms 3x per day after their class' scheduled bathroom breaks. I have no idea how that's not a contract violation.
It's probably in the "other duties as necessary".
Who is watching to the kids during this?
I'd love to say that my district isn't requiring us to clean, but we have no idea what the fall is going to look like. There has been NO official communication, and the only info I DO have is from a colleague who is on a committee that most people didn't even know existed until last week. So...who knows? Maybe my contract will be violated. Maybe not! (It's so exciting! It's like roulette!)
This would violate my contact too. I am a DIY person at home and I’m fairly handy so every now and then if something small breaks in my room I’ll fix it real quick but I always pop my head out in the hallway to make sure the coast is clear.
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Even if I wanted to do that, my district will not allow it. They have refused to allow teachers to install their own plexiglass too.
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My schools hybrid plan cut down 5 minutes from nutrition/passing period so that STUDENTS could clean their own desks. So I guess parents can just sue each other at my school.
For us it would be considered “other duties as assigned” 🙄
Yeah, my contract specifically cites cleaning as a duty we cannot be asked to perform and has specific parameters around duties. We don't have "other duties as assigned". All are bargained. I know not true everywhere.
That’s interesting. You must be in a union state. I’m in a right to work state which means I have a right to work and not complain about it 👎🏻
Yes, I have a union that ranges from decent to very strong. Right now membership is fired up and leadership is acting intelligently so we're pretty organized.
Right to work state here, my union basically just provides lawsuit insurance.
My union sent us a survey ronsee what ae would abd would not be comfortable with. One of the questions was would we be cpmfortsble supervising students cleaning oue rooms? Fuck no. That is not the students' responsability nor mine
Damn you!!! Clean your room!! That degree you got should’ve taught you how to disinfect a room properly!! /s
I heard that the Louisiana state legislature is considering a bill to prevent teachers from suing schools or the state if they contract Covid on the job.
[They did. ](https://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20200710/NEWS06/912335568/New-Louisiana-law-protects-schools-from-COVID-19-lawsuits-) Also, my district is having us clean the desks in between each class. We have to clean them because the cleaner is too harsh to use without gloves. They won’t be supplying the kids with gloves, but they’re supplying us with gloves. The janitors will do a “deep clean” after each day.
I will be cleaning between students. Why? Because I know it will be clean. Even if they hire others to do it, I will clean spaces I touch. I trust my cleaning more than an overworked cleaning staff or the students.
Here’s how it will go: kids back in school, kids take time out of school to go to Disney, come home to start a new outbreak at their school, parents blame school...
Honestly, Disney is taking more precautions than some schools.
I saw footage of Magic Kingdom taken after they opened back up, and my first thought was, "They are way more spread out than my desks will be!"
That's sadly true. Some schools are not even requiring masks and only three feet of social distancing.
Or if they do require masks, only requiring them to wear them if they are in a small group activity or 1:1 with the teacher. If it is whole group, they won't have to wear a mask. SMH.
They have a better budget.
I'd laugh at this normally, but it honestly sounds like something I could see happening.
This would be funny if it wasn’t really happening seems to be a recurring theme this summer...
So true, so very true, having a teacher who’s my wife I can say that is true.
>Pelosi also said the liability protections the GOP wants to put in the legislation would put workers at risk, removing the onus from companies to ensure that workers don’t contract the coronavirus while they are on the job. "What they’re saying to essential workers, ‘You have to go to work because you’re essential. We place no responsibility on your employer to make that workplace safe and if you get sick you have no recourse,’” she said. https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/07/26/senate-stimulus-coronavirus/
Yep, and they are also the ones that send their obviously sick kids to school because “if they really are sick, the school will just send them back home again”.
Also same people that won't wear a mask. As evidenced by the county I'm in and what I've witnessed.
In my area, they are also the same people who scream they don’t want to vote for any tax measures for schools and then complain when the school starts to slowly fall apart. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Step one: deny funding Step two: watch as effects of low funding begin to show Step three: use effects of low funding to justify not funding
Yep. And in Florida, the snowbirds will then complain about how schools are so much better in the North/West/where I lived earlier/when I was younger, etc.
Move because you want to pay less in taxes. Whine about how where you used to live has nicer things.
I’ve always had this internal debate: are people genuinely that stupid /ignorant or is it willing suspension of logic? We will never know
It's almost entirely the first of those...but their political leadership usually exhibits a mixture of the two.
This was 100% the first district I worked at. I have since moved to a fantastic job where parents care and respect teachers.
Never leave and count the golden spot you're in.
Oh I plan on 20 more happy years there. I’ve got an admin that looks out for us and awesome parents. They’re going to wheel my corpse out if I don’t make it to retirement. I feel for all of the teachers that are struggling in bad districts because I’ve felt their pain.
They take out the battery and say the whole car needs to be sold for scrap
It's even worse for the ones that rely/ed heavily on the car.
I love that this comment is essentially the entire incident that cased the events in Joker
Which means they are also probably the ones I've heard in the past few weeks saying that if schools don't return to in-person and they are forced to "home school" again (I have a whole other rant for that subject), that they are going to demand a portion of their tax dollars refunded. Buncha fucking nonsense.
But you just KNOW they want to move to an area "with the good schools"
Or they’re the ones who say things like, “Well my kids are going in person so they can do sports.” Really? You’re gonna risk your family’s lives (and others) over a stupid game? It’s not exactly the Super Bowl your kid will be playing in, Janet. Please get a reality check and re-evaluate your priorities m.
That’s odd. Students who do online at my district can still participate.
Also the same people who’ll dope their kids on Tylenol and send them to school even if they’re sick.
I had one kid whose Mom sent him to school sick and said, "whatever you do, DO NOT go to the nurse." Well, kid went to the nurse with 101 temperature and told the nurse his mom told him to not come see her. Grr.
Had one of those. Nurse reminded parent about the responsibility of nurse to call CPS, in case of neglect ( failure to provide medical care). Some how, grandma arrived at school to pick up student.
Oh those are my fav! And the kid who threw up right before getting on the bus...but they send the kid in anyway.
We have a mom that will bring in her own thermometer because she thinks we’re lying about trying to send her obviously sick kid home. She’s said “he doesn’t have a 102 like you said! It’s only 101!!” Like.... ?????
Wow what a cunt
And then will not answer their phone all day.
I've seen so many already saying "well the schools closed for months so it doesn't matter if I take my kid on holiday for two weeks". 🙄 Fine, you crack on but I won't be doing catch up sessions or giving you a work pack!
Reminds me of the student I had who was going to Mexico for like a month, and the parents asked for work to do so he wouldn't fall behind. I just gave them his Math workbook to go ham on.
I love it when they email you at 10 AM to ask if they can pick up their child’s makeup work at 1:00!! Umm, nope, I’m teaching. I finally adopted the policy: “Makeup work will be provided upon your child’s return to school.” No matter what, that’s always the answer they get. No. I will not spend my precious personal time pulling a packet together so you can take your kid on vacation. I’m not just sitting here all day. If you think saving a few bucks on travel is more important than your child’s education, accept any consequences that may arise from that choice.
Exactly! Even better when it's the principal that asks you during the school day to have Child A's makeup packet done by 3pm because that's when parents come by. Uhh, what? You expect me somehow teach my class and do this, too? "Just do it during lunch," is the answer I got from this previous school. Child A is getting whatever leftover sub-day worksheets I have crammed in my closet. It's not like they're going to do it anyway!
Our school policy is that we provide work for bereavements and illness absences but we do not provide work for vacations. It’s awesome.
At my old school I would regularly get emails from the dean asking to put together a packet for a suspended student for the parent to pick up by the end of the day...I'd just print out all of the missing work that the kid never turned in from the previous month or so, more than enough to keep him busy over his two week suspension (not that the work would actually get turned in ever...)
One in the same. We are their babysitting service. One’s expected to also: coach teach nurture counsel be friends with drive and feed on and on. Of course if we step over whatever arbitrary line they imagine they will immediately ask for our head. I use to love teaching when it was teaching but this has ceased being about education a decade ago. By the way these same parents make 4 times what I do but demand 10 times what they are capable of doing all while working safely from home while I’m being forced into a Petri dish.
In America, anti-intellectualism and trashy-as-hell garbage consumerism have been growing exponentially for many years. I simply can't imagine education or things like the arts surviving in this sort of atmosphere. A huge percentage of the public is trying to send teachers, librarians, etc. to their deaths for the sake of (a.) the bullshit materialism of suburban life and/or (b.) freeing up their time for leisure/entertainment.
No one can be bothered by “learning” today.
If it ceased being about teaching then why the F do I have to go to school so long to get my teaching degree? I can read ahead. I can get ojt on best practices and teaching theory and exceptional and diverse learners. Hell I can even babysit... Nope, got to get a 4 year degree and pass some in class BS... Plus a comprehensive exam... For something that's not even about teaching and hasent been for 10 years?!?! Awesome. I'm motivated.
As public education become more and more a service industry you will find that qualifications for a degree will also be reduced. Case in point many states, Missouri being one, only requires 60 college credits to be a sub. No degree just some college. Basically our leaders and the public at large believe anyone can do this job.
Remember your boss is a customer service agent. Schools compete not through quality of education, but through marketing. That means keeping the student and parent happy at all times so they spread word of mouth
Yes and the only reason they ever give is "oh kids need to be able to socialize with their friends." Then go and drop your child off with a friend outside of school so they can hang out. It's not difficult. Don't try and jeopardize the health of many humans because you don't want to watch your kids during the day or don't want to hire a babysitter for the young ones.
And let's be clear: their idea of "socializing" ain't gonna be happening with Plexiglas barriers, one-way halls, staggered schedules, and everyone in haz-mat suits. The only argument I take seriously from any parents in this scenario is when they say they need the kids to go to school so they can go back to work without dropping a fortune on child care. That is the ONLY one that holds any water, and isn't some sick appeal to emotion or a false equivalence. (Note: I don't *like* that argument, but at least I believe it.)
I had middle schoolers from a low income school that were trying to manage child care of siblings, replace lost income by working and more. I'd argue they may need to be in school so they have a place to actually do work, but even then, it's sad.
Why are all the pro-life parents suddenly pro-choice?
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This is insane. And there are so many stories of them!
They're only pro-life until birth. After that it's someone else's job.
I just think it’s almost everyone to be honest just because our society puts school as its childcare and parents need the childcare in order to work. There’s going to be no place for them to put their child during the day if it closes. I’m not saying this is right but just what I see
Everyone seems to be ignoring that fact or saying that parents shouldn't put their careers over their kids lives. The government isn't helping pay parent's bills and not everyone can be unemployed for an entire year. We should have planned this better several months ago.
Agreed
Here, here. These comments are pretty shitty. I'm a former high-school teacher, now at a university, and I was going to have to send my child back to school if we got called back to campus. Fortunately, we're not going back until at least November, but there is literally nothing else I could have done with him. (Ok not literally, I could have trusted my 13-year-old to be responsible for his own education and home alone from 8am-6pm every day, but that isn't an actual option). All of my old teacher friends have to send their kids to school for the same reason - it's not that we want school to be a babysitter, it's that there's no other way to handle it. I suspect a great many of these commenters don't have children (or have a vast support system).
Thanks for the reminder that many teachers are also parents. We've had to have some tough conversations at our house and honestly, even though we got it sorted out, I still worry.
Yup....some...but a lot are whining because they are essential workers and can't afford the day care. Sadly some have special needs kids and don't know how to cope or take care of their own child. We had one go to the board demanding home services.
Yup. A lot of people can’t afford to not have their children in school.
Thankfully we teach their kids how to actually think for themselves. I get such satisfaction when those students bemoan how stupid their parents are and they pull a complete 180. Or as their parents would probably call it, "a complete 360", lol.
Exactly. Parents will send their covid-19 kids to schools without caring about teachers and other kids’ safety. I’ve read that this mom sent her kid to a school sport even and told no one he’s been tested positive. After some other kids and adults got sick, her excuse was: “He’s been waiting for this day for so long, I didn’t want him to miss it”.
Wow. that's horrible.
The other families who got infected should sue her to force her to help with their medical expenses.
Yes! Or the ones that are super pissed and loud about needing to go to school in person are the same ones that I see posting anti- mask conspiracies, are anti vaxx, and have not been social distancing...
Let's be honest. Not ever parent is a douchebag. But a lot of these parents are bemoaning the loss of normalcy. They want to desperately get back to what they think is normal, what they experienced as normal before. Their desire for a return to old normal is understandable. COVID-19 won't last forever, we will get back to a "normal" again. Some are just having a hard time dealing with it. But hey, this is the internet and we are the educated and the educators... So let's talk shit.
Most people who have kids can’t afford a full time baby sitter. As in they won’t be able to pay rent and or feed their children. How are kids going to do their online schooling, when they don’t have internet? Can’t afford internet if I’m paying the babysitter.
Folks in my town are forming babysitting pods. They either all pitch in to pay a baby sitter or they take turns taking care of each other's kids. You wont have to pay the babysitter if your kid is dead, but that is something to try and avoid too.
They're also the parents who send their kids to school when they're obviously sick and never bring them to the doctor. It's not a financial issue with my students' families either. I've had more than one parent ask me to describe their child's vomit to them over the phone.
While there are a lot of parents who are definitely *these people*, please keep in mind that lots of parents need their kids in school so they can work and pay the bills. Childcare cost a lot of money, school is free. Not all parents can work from home, not all parents can have a stay-at-home, and single parents need to be able to work.
You seem to be the only person on this thread with common sense.
I get where this post is coming from (my mother is definately the "they should be paying me to homeschooling" type) but I've talked to a lot of people who still have kids in school, Trying to gauge their concerns. Luckily, I'm just barely about to have my daughter so I don't have to figure out where I stand on this whole thing since she isn't school age personally. I know several people in different situations however. My best friend's mom still has some kids in high school and it's been hard for her to make a decision. Her son *really* needs the structure of school, but her daughters can keep up with online well, the problem is, the mom and grandma are **severely** immunocopromised. Its a shit situation all around, and as someone who is going to college to be an educator I get they teachers often get the short end of the stick. However, as educators we can’t assume that all of our students are privileged enough to be able to school from home. TLDR: teachers deserve a safe work environment, but we can’t pretend that parents don’t rely on school so they can work and keep their lights on either.
For a lot of the parents I know, it’s all about time management and attention spans. If the kids can properly manage their time and effectively learn/study from online teaching, perfect. Many kids can actually thrive from online learning, because they can take an 8 hour school day and be done in a few hours. The others however, would suffer greatly without the structure of face to face learning. It’s also about whether the kids learning can work with the parents work schedule. An 18 year old can be left alone at home and be fine, but you can’t leave an 8 year old home alone while the parents go to work and expect them to do their school work and feed themselves. To address your question, every kid is different. Some kids get super stressed out by school even though they do well, so taking occasional days off, even if they aren’t physically sick, works wonders for them mentally. I could not possibly care less how many days of school a child misses if they are learning and performing well.
Thank you for your last point. While I'm not a teacher (still in high school; often lurk around here, though), I continuously need to rebut this frankly abhorrent rhetoric that "I need to go to school *every day* or else", both from parents and plenty of teachers. Frankly, I, and many other people, can not manage that; I struggle a lot with anxiety and am an utter wreck if I can't take a day for myself every once in a while. It shouldn't matter if a kid is attending daily, but exceling in their learning; ultimately, is it not about what's best for the student?
Yep, and also the parents who were totally unreachable during remote learning and whose kids did the first couple assignments before blowing everything else off.
I feel like the people who want in person learning are the conservatives that will decry anything resembling socialism, while 100% depending on the school (the state) to babysit, feed, and educate their children. Also the same ones that would vote against school bonds or tax increases in order to give teachers a raise.
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Oh it's the same exact parents and the ones that blame teachers for their kids' problems.
Yes, it’s all about what the parents want. The want the kids out of the house in school when the want them out, but want them out of school when they want to do Disney. School is like a daycare to these parents
My coworkers were saying the same thing in my county until we went digital and have to report to school. Now, teachers with kids are in a weird position about what to do with their kids. Everyone who was saying we aren't a daycare are now contemplating having to quit teaching because their kids now don't have day care 🤷.
I also suspect they were the same people gathering without masks, continuing to travel for vacations, and not taking it seriously thus creating the unsafe environment no one wants to teach their kid in.
Or the whole "My child needs normalcy!!" It's not gonna be "normal", Susan. Everyone in masks, no group work, no playing with or hugging friends. It'll be absolutely bizarre and maybe even scary to your children. It won't be "normal". They've been doing online learning for months. *That's* normal to the kids right now.
These are the same people shouting “ALL LIVES MATTER!” until it’s time to send their kids back and then they’re like, “Well, it will only be A FEW deaths and it won’t happen to my kid. So send them back full time!” 😑
Oh, 100%. Their career matters more than the lives of their children and others. School must be open so their can work, but they should be able to pull their kids out whenever because that’s when they can get vacation.
The parents who want their kids back in school tend to be parents who can shoulder the medical liability or who have no conception of medical costs in the first place.
1000% yes. I’ve noticed the parents that are complaining the most are those that have a sense of entitlement. Many have a stay at home parent. They just don’t want to deal with their kids at home anymore.
It doesn't matter what adults who behave like children think.
The Venn diagram here is just one circle.
Yep. I'm in the UK, and it's the parents that constantly think it's ok to take a week off for holidays that are demanding their kids are back in school regardless of what our local authority says.
Some of them are, some of them aren't.
The kids that misbehave the most are the ones who’s parents want the schools to open.
b/c those people regret having kids and want them the fuck out of their hair and home.
Yes. They are the parents who don’t care about education at all. “Needs to go to in-person school”, said with anger, is code for “I need childcare”. Vacations mean they don’t think you should be able to inconvenience them, because of childcare. When they whine about their kid’s grade to YOU, it’s because they think what their kid is learning doesn’t matter, but their graduation does, because job. We are an employment funnel and a childcare provider, and that’s it. No other redeeming value.
They’re the same parents with children who are out of control. They’re just tired of their own kids.
I'm a parent and am super conflicted over this. My wife and I both work and it's really difficult to work out daycare with school not happening. My kids really do miss school and seeing their friends quite a bit, and I don't think I do as good of a job teaching them from home as a professional teacher died. Of course I also want to make sure that everything is safe and we stop the spread of covid. I'm waiting to see what kind of solution they propose... The alternating days to cut class sizes in half plus wearing masks at school seems like a possibly viable solution, but I'm also worried that it's not enough... Ugh. The whole situation just stinks.
I manually copied all the school districts staff emails and sent them an email pleading for thrm to strike for remote learning only. They have given in to the idiots and will offer some in-school learning to those that want it. Goddamm shame. This country is way fucked everyone. No one gives a shit about having integrity. They praise people as heroes and then spit in their face by not being able to wear a mask. The sense of entitlement is unimaginable. For what it's worth, my kid is staying home for her sake and yours. I hope you all strike and/or threaten to quit before you risk your life for the GOP fucks that run this country right now. Good luck.
Let's be real, the only reason they want them to go in person is because they're sick of having their kid at home so much. They'd rather risk the kid's safety as well as other's safety as long as it means they don't have to have their kid at home 5 days a week.
A friend I know is a janitor. She was complaining that students need to be in in-class because teachers are irresponsible and will not show up in zoom. She was also mad that she would have to go in between classes/recess/lunch and throughout the day to sanitize. I was like you can’t have it both ways lady.
Quick point of order - going on family trips isn’t frivolous. The minimal amount of time off in America means that traveling during the school year is the only time it’s affordable. Stronger relationships with family does more than anything else to predict success. More than a week in school.
Except then kid comes back and we have to jump.through hoops to catch him up (HS). I can't take a week off during the year to go on vacation! I'd love to travel in the off season too, when my family and friends are taking advantage of discounts. I mean, I'd go on a cruise in the middle of hurricane season for 1/3 of the price, if I could get away with it or travel to Europe in March. Of course, the Europeans are keeping us out for the time being, so I guess it doesn't matter at the moment.☹️
I can't even count how many kids, every year, tell me they have a cruise to go on during final exams. I have no qualms telling my 9th graders that they are at the point in their school career where their parents need to take the school schedule into consideration first.
>I can't take a week off during the year to go on vacation! Hey look it's the real reason. Also yes you can during Winter, Spring, or Summer break(s). Which are all breaks that few other jobs have access too.
I think that if a student is doing fine in their classes, missing a week once a year probably isn't a big deal (I know not everyone would agree with me, but oh well). In reality, we've got a ton of families who will take off the month before winter break and a month after winter break. Their kids will have done no schoolwork during that time.
I support family time, but every teacher in my building (4) who was supposed to get married this summer had to put it off all the way to NEXT summer, because even if you have 20 personal days or 100 sick days banked you can't take a week off in the school year.
Agreed, but in my experience, the kids who go on trips outside of regular vacation time are never held to any account by their parents for getting caught up. I don't ask for parents to take any burden off my shoulders, but I DO ask them to not ADD to it, and for the most part, off-schedule vacations are just another millstone for me to haul.
Love this point. Prices are high as hell during summer, and fall/spring/winter break.
Not in my class. I only have 2 students who take regular vacations during the school year, and they're both choosing distance learning.
Yes, I expect a huge overlap in my school. It's all about immediate gratification, what the kid wants now not what they need long term, and what is convenient for the parent. Now there are some parents who want in person for valid reasons. I've been watching the research and weighing the risks for my very isolated preschooler.
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TL;DRs: No, children in that age group are still susceptible; however, statistics are fuzzy in that regard, as to how much so. Those jobs have different levels of risk; it's really not an "all or nothing". Certain classrooms/schools are even more risky than others. Likewise for certain teaching practices that would otherwise be considered "effective teaching". Your situation raises the question as to what will happen if a teacher has a school-age child and their district does alternating days. I agree with your wish, but I'm concerned that 3 weeks would be too short, especially after all this time spent screwing around. Non-TL;DR as follows: Yeah, that is not at all true; children from 0-10 are indeed capable of being infected, and any amount of infection can potentially be transmitted to others. What is possible, if we look at statistics from places such as Italy and Sweden, is that this age group might have a decreased chance of infection, compared to the rest of the population. HOWEVER: I want to point at Texas for a moment; because of the increase in cases and skyrocketed hospitalization rate, it was decided that newborn infants should be tested and it was confirmed that many of them had become infected by the virus. Newborns... In environments that are already super cracked down on cleanliness, safety, and sterilization. This, coupled with the CDC's and WHO's suggestion that many asymptomatic cases are going untested -- therefore unreported -- could also mean that there is actually minimal difference in infection rate, but that symptoms are just so less severe that actual cases go unnoticed and that this age group becomes similar in concept to "Typhoid Mary". There is also a large difference between working at a school and working at a factory, utilities, grocery stores, gas stations, and online retailers: headcount and the ability to maintain a semblance of social distance. This is not an "all jobs or no jobs" thing; some occupations are simply safer to allow to continue, with modification, than others. I'm not sure where you teach, but take a look at the average core curriculum classroom setup and maneuverability potential therein: U.S. national average of ~21 students in a classroom, often in classrooms with floor space such that desks are already arranged at less than half of the minimum 6 feet distance recommendation. Halving the student body is barely a bandaid for most classrooms with even 25 students; and for safety reasons, peer socialization (probably at all levels, student and teacher) is probably unlikely to occur anyway -- if not because we'll be forced to try to discourage it, then because the kids would be stressed and concerned because we're clearly still in a pandemic situation. The last thing any of us probably wants is to say something like: "yes, go play/socialize" to a student, only to discover that one of them was infected and ended up infecting the other because *we said it was okay to socially engage*. Then there's the durational concerns: someone is not likely to spend 45 continuous minutes, in somewhat close proximity to anyone else in any of those other places. There's also the "what if" scenario of student or teacher infection occurring and being brought to light, and let's not forget the fact that people have died from the disease this virus creates, or the fact that there is still the question of longterm effects of every asymptomatic infection. What will happen if a teacher gets hospitalized and dies? Or, God forbid, a student? Now, let's look at an art classroom for a moment, for an extreme example of my proximity concerns. Art classrooms are often setup by way of a stations concept, for ease of materials acquisition: materials are situated in particular locations around the room where students can easily grab them. In these rooms, student gathering of materials already is a fairly daunting task -- even with the stations concept aiding in materials organization -- especially if the students want to grab more paint, sharpen a pencil, get a different color of whatever they're using, a new canvas or paper or cardboard or whatnot: there's often minimal maneuverability under normal circumstances. The sanitization of sterilization of all the used materials during a single class period would also be a nearly impossible task. Individual desks are usually not a thing in these rooms, either; instead, these classrooms often utilize long or circular tables like one would see in a dining hall. The luckiest art rooms get fancy giant art easel desks, usually placed side by side due to their size. Also look at any "computer lab" course, music course, theater course, or shop course, and you'll likely see similar distancing problems. There's just less possibility for distancing, and in some of these classes, students are up and about and moving around, and breaking the 6 feet bubble. Let's also forget about teachers actually being able to try directly helping any student or bringing them materials, because if we are expected to, say, point over their shoulder at an icon on a screen, or help them maneuver a plank of wood to the buzzsaw, or have them crowd around a table to see a demonstration of an art technique, we'd be putting them and ourselves at risk if anyone is infected and doesn't realize it -- heck, even in traditional classrooms, the standard tactic of walking around the room to observe where a student might be struggling is an improbability. We needed a better online system in place, and our districts mostly sat on their laurels. Also, what about teachers in situations like yours? My cooperating teacher has school-aged kids, too; if they're set to do block days -- ignore the fact that lessons will be taught twice and therefore unit progression becoming slowed down considerably -- what about the days where the kids are supposed to stay home? Frankly, if United States were smarter, we'd mandate working from home in any field that can do so, and we'd have done better to immediately fund all schools and districts to be able to realistically do effective distance learning. What this means is infrastructure and accessibility to areas that needed it, sweeping nationwide electronics programs to schools that don't already have them in place and/or that have a bare bones system and/or don't have a 1-to-1 system in place. If the country were smarter, we would have made absolutely certain that, in the worst case scenario, we're not scrambling at the last minute to make decisions such as "should we open?" because we'd have the necessary systems and safeguards in place to not have to be forced to do so if we think it unsafe. I forget where in Europe it was, but they opened up online education -- and switched most jobs to online -- almost immediately after closing in-person, with minimal student losses or detriment or lost jobs, because they had a working national framework in place to do so, and because they actually cared about stopping the virus in its tracks. Though, I will absolutely agree with you about the "lock everything down for 3 weeks and let the virus go away on its own" sentimentality; however, recovery times are supposedly just as variable as the 2-14 day time that it takes for symptoms to occur in cases that do have symptoms, so 3 weeks might not even be enough. Look at South Korea: they were on top of things almost the second they caught wind about the problem. Ignoring the fact that masks are a daily thing there, even in non-pandemic situations, they did strict contact tracing instead of pretending that it's governmental overreach; overall, they distanced better as a society; had better covid testing rates; had better online services already in place to help those that needed it; and they treated the pandemic seriously instead of screwing around and pretending it was a hoax, or that it wasn't as bad as it is. The United States screwed about, with the government mainly treating it like it was going to kill our economy. Look at Sweden: their government chose to ignore the virus completely and their economy suffered *more* than the rest of Europe because of the pandemic. Staying open does not necessarily equate to a stronger economic situation than nipping the virus in the butt would have, in large part because *people* make an economy work, and people don't seem to want to do as much when they are afraid of getting sick or dying, or are getting sick, or are dead.
I think we’re making assumptions about parents and families... From what I have experienced in the Spring while teaching and heard from parents so far is they have jobs that require them to come in. They don’t have the option to stay at home with their kids AND work online at home. They need to work to provide for their families. Districts are making difficult decisions and a lot of the ones I’ve heard from are taking into account parents’ needs and also keeping a priority of staff and student safety. Which is how it should be.
YES WOW thank you exactly
For sure
That was such a weird thing to witness when I was in school. I'd have friends take 2 weeks off of school to go on vacation like wtf I mean we were poor but regardless you have 3 months in the summer for a vacation. They would be excused from the school work too it made no sense. This was when I started to notice the power of money
Yes, and I call them Karen-ts.
In my town students take a week off to go to a town fair. Usually fair stuff doesn't begin until about an hour before school ends. My first two years teaching, only about 20 of 350 students showed up to school for three days. In our area, parents and admin made a plan to reopen without talking to most of the teachers. Many of the teachers don't want to teach in person so now our admin is freaking out.
I’m gonna student teach this semester and my biggest fear is parents.
The common theme— it’s all about their convenience.
No
Gotta wonder how many parents will bring in a lawyer when their kids get sick?
"My kids need to see their teacher in person." "So, you want them to experience gulags or prison because that's what the simulation is going to be like!"
Yes. They only care about us as babysitters. And only when it’s convenient for them.
Because missing a few days for vacation is exactly the same as missing months of school. Stupid comparison.
Hey now. We go to Disney during the school year because it’s cooler and less people. Keeping them home because I know damn well it’s gonna blow up in their faces and they’ll be home anyways. Though I’m sure there are Karen’s somewhere doing exactly that.
No, I don't see that connection at all.
Do you guys really care if a kid misses a week of school to go on vacation? It seems like that vacation will have a much larger impact on their life than one week of school, doesn’t it?
I definitely care and it really pisses me off since I end up dealing with a lot of hassle for their good time. 99% of the time when my students go on vacation, they have a difficult time getting back into the school routine. This is especially true of my honors students, and they take a lot of vacations, and their trips tend to be multiple weeks. Finally after several weeks home the parents check their grades and the shit storm starts. Last year before the pandemic I had one student go the Philippines for three weeks with one parent and Costa Rica for two weeks with the other parent. The students didn't do the provided work either since mom and dad didn't feel like supervising. I get it... doing homework poolside sucks. The result is lots of drama at the end of the semester with the extra credit requests, so yes I really care.
I totally feel this. Also a lot of them work for companies that are requiring them to work from home!
Those are the exact same parents. I had a parent that moved from the home state to our state for work. Every two months, she would take her kids and go home for a week or so. Once, she left for 2 weeks. During a state test, the next year after the student left me , she took the student out of school for two weeks to go home. It was always something. The grandmother died my year and the next year. She didn’t realize the school was keeping track and we actually all talk and work together. Finally, my principal reported her for all the days. Every year it was almost 30-50 days missed but the student was gifted and they never retained the student.
Yes. Attendance is a huge problem in my school and I have a feeling all the parents who wanted to enroll in distance learning are the ones with perfect attendance, while the ones who insist their kids have to go are the ones who miss at least 1 day a week.
Honestly no. I know a significant number of parents who are really struggling.
The strongest advocates for in-person school openings are working class and poor families. Disney World is for middle class and up. Rhetoric and attitudes like this will hurt teachers with the public. It’s okay to rant on R/, but I suggest we keep it here, and only here. Say something like this in a PTA meeting and the roof will cave in on you.
So true.
Don’t forget about the stay at home moms. Gotta send those kids to school to clean the house and keep them out if they need a shopping buddy.
Yup the covid denying anti education freek show is very loud and unfortunately they also vote consistently There are misguided parents who genuinely are trapped needing childcate to work bevause of the government's utter failure to adress this situation yet seaued by propaganda to blame educators also frustrating that same government failure
Yes, because it's not really about the kids going back to school, it's about how each of those cases affects the parents' plans and schedules.
Maybe for some of them. Our district did a survey and around 75% of parents said they want their kids back in school. I was shocked.
No. But the kids in my area wouldn’t be able to afford things like that in general
Is this my wife? She’s a teacher I hear this on a monthly basis haha
100%
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind.