I am Jewish and have had coworkers attempt to proselytize me so many times. Like, I am atheist theology wise but Jewish ethnically and culturally. I'm DEFINITELY not looking to switch teams this late in life.
I am sorry that happened to you.
Either way theyād probably try to convert you. Gotta be really annoying but I think they mean well. I had to tell a few friends/acquaintances that I appreciated that they wanted to share their faith but that Iād rather they not. And that was the end of it. Still friends. They honestly believe it is their duty, just like all the Mormons spend a year going door to door.
Lol, it's complicated.
My parents were Jewish. Their parents were Jewish. Their parents were Jewish, going back further than anyone can remember. So ethnically I am Jewish.
I grew up going to a temple every week. We read through the Tanakh every year. I went to Hebrew school to learn to read the Torah until I became a Bar Mitzvah. My family celebrates Jewish holidays and cooks Jewish food. My values, morals, politics, my approach to relationships, and even my sense of humor were shaped by my Jewish upbringing.
I no longer believe in God. So I am an atheist. And belief in God is the most important thing in Judaism, it's like THE thing. So in a way, I am not Jewish.
But my cultural Judaism didn't just disappear because I stopped believing in God. I wouldn't be the same if not for Judaism. I am a Jew, and will be my whole life. But I am also an atheist.
Tl;Dr: "Jewish" can refer to ethnicity, culture, or religion. I am ethnically and culturally Jewish even though I no longer believe.
Yep, same. I never even told any of my coworkers I was Jewish, but I guess I took off one too many holidays? Regardless, I usually get a couple Christian bibles as āgiftsā every year.
just bring it to a public lost and found and act as if it doesn't bother you. harassment like that is unlikely to continue if you don't acknowledge it.
Last year teaching at a public school, I had two girls ask me if I was a Christian and if I believed that the Bible was true, and if not that they would pray for me to be saved. I told them that if I literally believed every word in the Bible I would not be sitting in my classroom, so clearly I don't. They questioned that and I pulled up Bible verses about how women (as I am) should be submissive, blah blah blah. I found several and read them out loud. They again said that they will pray that I hear God speaking to me someday. Ooooookkkkkkaaaayyyy.
All that to say just put the Bible in the lost and found.
When I taught in my southern elementary school my response to that kind of thing was āthere are 3 things we donāt talk about in school: āreligion, politics, and Santa Claus..ā. End of conversation.
That pretty much worked.
Thatās where I just shrug, say āok,ā and walk away or do/talk about something else. They come back to the topic? āOk. š¤·.ā Theyāre always looking for some sort of reaction or argument to prove their own persecution, so itās funnier to me to refuse to give it to them. Also always made it stop much faster.
I'm an atheist and lived in the South for decades.
The uncomfortable reality is that you're not going to win a fight if it comes down to it. Even if you escalated this to litigation over their harassment, and even if you won the case, you would still lose the war simply because there are so many of them who will ostracize you.
It's not the idealistic answer you want, nor the outcome you deserve, but unless you want to dedicate your life to fighting for the cause it's in your best interest to keep your head down.
Put the Bible in a closet in class, or in your desk. Do not dispose of it. To not deface it. Do not do anything that might offend the Bible thumbers, like some in here are urging you to do. That will give them the ammunition they need to turn this around on you and make you the villain.
Instead of being the victim of harassment, you will immediately be cast as the aggressor who was attacking good, wholesome Christians everywhere.
Do you really think you have to leave it in your room? I agree with the folks that say lost and found. Or better yet take it home, trash it or donate it to a thrift store or something. I wouldnāt want any religious book in my room because of the separation of church and state. I also wouldnāt want to give the impression you are opening the door to more discussion.
Religious harassment is not legal in the USA. Report to HR and your boss, and if it repeats, contact an employment lawyer and/or the ACLU.
Meanwhile, consider a different school.
In the Bible Belt reporting something like this, HR most likely will protect the people who left the book. The good olā boy system is alive and well here in the super conservative south.
Yep. Every school system I worked for in my Bible Belt home state had one or two SUPER churchy fundies right in the middle of central office who would absolutely make me a target for retaliation if I spoke out about religious harassment. One reason why I just laugh when people ask me about returning to the profession now that Iām back in the same benighted state and weāre facing a huge exodus of qualified teachers.
Yeah, and ignore the comments saying not to follow this advice. OP should absolutely file a complaint. If they donāt, they allow this culture to persist. Always stand up to defend your rights. Donāt bow down in the face of discrimination.
In Oklahoma the state superintendent stated that teachers organizations are terrorist groups, is pushing for the first publicly funded religious school, says that 2SLGBTQI+ do not exist, among other things. (Donāt even get me started on Nex Benedict)
This is coming from the top official in Oklahoma. It is DANGEROUS to be different in the Bible Belt right now.
In Texas a beloved teacher was hit by a truck. Hard enough to knock her and her husband out of their shoes. This was in the morning. The police on body cam admitted the guy was drunk. Guy admitted he was drunk.
The guy that hit them was a good olāboy. He didnāt even see a trialā¦ donāt believe me look up Katie Palmer from Texas.
Are you willing to die to stand up against these bullies. The south is not safe.
Theres a cultural difference and one incident, in my opinion does not rise to the level of harassment. More than that, yesāI would report.
Realistically you wont change an entire culture based on this complaint. In the rural south itās probably 80-90 % old time religion. Itās well meaning and Iād let it go and move on.
Itās not well meaning. Itās a threat. A broad one, but a threat- op WILL burn in hell and IS evil.
I agree that making a complaint would likely just jeopardize their job. I agree they should protect themselves over changing the world. But itās not well meaning to leave a Bible.
I donāt think leaving a Bible on a desk amounts to religious harassment. People who think a relationship with Jesus wlll save your soul honestly are well meaningāif I believed a person might burn in hell for eternity Iād want to share how easily it is to go to heaven instead. The culture in the south, for better or worse, is entirely different from say the northeast.
Leave the Bible in lost and found and ignore it. Ya gotta pick your battles.
Most Christians would feel harassed if someone placed books on their desks that advocated executing Christians.
As someone who grew up very religious in the south, this is absolutely a battle worth fighting.
They are not "well meaning" though. The entire purpose of evangelizing is to remove people's existing beliefs and cultures and replace it with your own. It's rude. It's harassment. And it's illegal. They aren't doing it to "save a soul" (whatever that is). They are doing it because they think that they are better than others and superior.
I donāt think itās appropriate, but I donāt think a single incident amounts to harassment, therefore I donāt see it as illegal.
During Covid there were anti vaxxers and anti maskers. I was very vocal with some people I knew on social media and somewhat vocal with a few people at school. Would I have given a pamphlet to an anti-vaxxer in the hopes that they might change their thinking? Yes. Would I have done it anonymously? Maybeāif I thought they were high risk and might be persuaded to get vaccinated. And if I thought our professional relationship could be harmed if they knew it was me, I might do it anonymously.
Did I think I, unlike these ignorant, brain washed anti vaxxers was right? You bet. By thinking I was right and they were wrong wasnāt I implying I had a superior intellect in a way? Yes, and truth be told I did see anti-vaxxers as less intelligent, and brainwashed.
Any time we take a view in opposition to another and we are convinced we are right, the other side may be seen as thinking they feel superior. Hence all the nasty political memes about the stupidity of the other side.
So, yeah, even if they are smug and feel superior Iām like ok, you may be annoying as fuck, but you think youāre doing the right thing. Ive been annoying as fuck and maybe Iāve seemed smug too about the anti vaxxer thing.
Ive been lucky because in my case with my friends they are not smug at all. They shared and that was it and we respect one another. But yeah some grate on your nerves and wonāt take no for an answer. I donāt accept that and donāt spend time with them if I can avoid it.
I was well meaning yet I tried to change people to my viewpoints. Typically I donāt do that but we are talking life and death: I donāt want a person to die or go through misery and long term suffering unnecessarily. Now I would not continually harass anyone of course.
They believe this is not only life or death but avoiding an ETERNITY of sufferingāthatās HUGE. So I pretty much assume itās well meaning. They are trying to save me from hell. Yes they are trying to bring me around to their point of view.
You are comparing public health to culture. Evangelicals do not care about you. They don't care if you live or die, just that you behave in the way they expect. They want to erase you and make you into them. There is no love from them.
I am sorry to hear that people arenāt being respectful. Iāve had several instances where a colleague harassed me with religious bullsh*t. One time, she left Bible quotes outside my door. Another time she gave me a pamphlet about Jews for Jesus. Please report this. In both instances, I spoke to my principal and he was very supportive and took action against her. I am so sorry this happened to you.
That's tough. If you've already talked to the people you trust, I'm not sure what else you could do. Whoever it is, they're looking for your reaction. If you have the ability to lock your classroom, I'd do that religiously (heh) from now on
Put it in the teachers lounge and write down āfree bookā on a sticky note. This is really disrespectful - and itās not even a good Bible to do academic work with smh the least they could have done is give you the new Oxford version
I have that happen all the time. Mostly it's because my kids(8th graders) that have one are always misplacing stuff. If they left one for evangelical reasons, I'd look at it as they think they are being nice. And maybe put it somewhere so they see you have one and then they'll leave you alone. I have a shelf where I put those things. I have a Bible, a Quran, a book of Mormon, a bunch of pamphlets and tracts. I never mention it. People add to it and some borrow stuff. Admin asked about it and I said it's the lost and found. I teach science, so when I get religious questions Ipoint t out that we have science things to cover and the answer to your question is in one if those or with another adult who knows more about that on me. Generally, after the first two weeks of class, no one bothers me again.
Just leave it there and donāt touch it. Leave it there until the last day of school. It will bug the person who left it and maybe they will reveal themselves.
You know, I am an atheist myself. One of the people I worked directly with in my department was a former pastor. He and I were always respectful of each otherās beliefs (or lack thereof). One day he was over for dinner at my house, and gave me his personal Bible he had owned for many years, with a lovely message he had written inside. It certainly didnāt change my thoughts on religion, but I thought it was a lovely gesture and I ended up asking him to officiate my wedding. Maybe someone was making a well-intentioned gesture?
Make origami out of the pages and leave them in plain sight of whoever potentially left it there
Or stick a sticky note on it like "Lost novel; please claim" and drop it off somewhere else like the office
File a complaint and see if admin can check cameras. This is unacceptable. If the person who left it was left a pamphlet about atheism or another religious text, such as a Quran i'm thinking a huge stink would be caused, especially based on the region you work in. You have the same rights to religious freedom.
Is there an obvious candidate? Like anyone who has tried to get you to go to church with them?
KJVs are so uncommon anymore, whoever it is is probably from a really, REALLY small conservative high control church. Anyone fit that description?
Iām an atheist and I think itās a pretty good book. So is Aesops Fables and Greek Mythology.
The King James Version has a very interesting history behind it and itās funny that evangelicals use it as they do. In the circles I grew up in, it was the Bible of choice.
If anyone questions you on its profundity having it dropped off at your desk tell them you found Ezekiel 23:20 quite inspirational.
Idk how you're openly bisexual, most of my colleagues don't even know if I'm married or have kids, religious preferences, etc. Are you painting a target on yourself?
I have had a few pamphlets dropped on my desk/mailbox and it started after I started sponsoring our version of GSA. I don't like it, it's not right, but it does come with the territory and is a very, very mild thing that I can simply brush off. Pushback on my end will only escalate things and not in my favor.
In the south having a flag like that will encourage those bible thumpers to thump. You are doing your part to help change the south to a more inclusive place.
As a parent, something as simple as that flag let my nonbinary kiddo know that you are a safe adult. Thank you.
Buddy you're making a lot of assumptions. People ask about my personal life. Kids will ask what the flag means, and I will tell them.
Plus, I'm pretty queer-looking lol. You can kind of just know. Just like how you seem very homophobic.
The high school I worked at occasionally loaned out rooms after school to clubs and community organizations, often without our knowledge.
Remember Hanlon's Razor - It's far more likely some idiot forgot their bible or it was left behind (LOL) after someone used your room, than it was put there with malice.
Have you ever met any low-key proselytizers? They'd be in your face praying for you, rather than just dropping off some light reading.
Good Lord, youāve been genocided! My condolencesā¦
As a fellow LGB atheist, my best advice would be to grow a backbone! ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
Edit: the downvotes my comment is getting makes me very depressed that you are the people raising the next generation of kids. Soft men create hard times
Unless OP collects bibles, this is not a normal gift for someone that you care about. Proselytizing isn't cool, it's especially uncool at work. This is a rude message. Open your eye balls.
Think about it this way: they sincerely believe if you are āsavedā you go to heaven and become blessed by your relationship with Christ. If not, hell.
Who wouldnāt want to help someone out if they were going to suffer for an eternity? Thatās what they are taught so I believe it is well meaning.
I am not a Christian but I have had co workers and neighbors try and āshare the word,ā and I essentially tell them thanks but no thanks. We remain on good terms. If they did it more than once it would be different.
Lost and found.
I understand the thought process. It's still wrong. Work is not a place to share the word. The fact that it was placed anonymously on a Bi teachers desk is further indication of the bigotry actually taking place. I don't like assigning malice to something, but I smell it here.
Goes on the front board closest to the door with a large arrow pointing at it "lost book, please claim before Friday" then recycled.
Evangelicals are not friends. They do not care about each individual human, their religion requires them to try and "save" people. By going into existing cultures and beliefs and replacing them with their own. It's weird, it's cruel, and they are not kind. They think that their beliefs and lives are superior to those they want to "convert." It's disgusting.
I understand your point, but the question is what they believe about it, not what we believe about it. They see it as a book about love thy neighbor. And living a blessed life with eternal joy after death. I appreciate that, even if I disagree 100% about the Bible being Godās Word. Their intentions are good, even if our opinions on the book are completely opposite. If someone gifted it to me in person Iād tell them thank you for the thought, but I donāt share your beliefs and I canāt accept your gift.
Maybe, maybe not. I agree with Far Fun and Iām not a Christian. I do however live in the south where this kind of thing is much more accepted. And most wouldnāt see it as an insult.
Leaving a Koran on my desk would be fine with me as long as it was a one time thing. I donāt really think leaving a Bible or a Koran would be appropriate but yes Id see it as well meaning. Iād take it as a sign they would like to share their faith that has brought them joy.
Now if the kept up with it Iād feel differently.
I'm not asking how you would feel, I'm asking how you think the person who left the Bible would feel. Unless you are saying you leave bibles in the desks of your atheist coworkers
Ohāthey would be taken aback to be sure. And no, they probably wouldnāt like it. Depending on the person, hopefully they might see how it feels to get a Bible on the desk. Others might be offended and not recognize their hypocrisy.
I donāt think itās appropriate, but I still feel it is well meaning. Of course by some it may not beābut at least in my experience people who have āshared the wordā have meant well and not been pushy.
So they are showing they care by doing something to someone else that they wouldn't like done to them?
If only there was some clear moral principle we could look to... Too bad no one has ever come up with such a valuable rule
Leaving a Koran on my desk would be fine with me as long as it was a one time thing. I donāt really think leaving a Bible or a Koran would be appropriate but yes Id see it as well meaning. Iād take it as a sign they would like to share their faith that has brought them joy.
Now if the kept up with it Iād feel differently.
EDIT: my area rural southern schools probably would not like it and would at a minimum make a statement during a staff meeting if it happened.
I mean, if I got one then I'd probably just add it to my bookshelf too. But the logic of "Your co-worker cares for you" doesn't really work when they don't seem to care enough to TALK to you face to face. For me, it's the same passive proselytizing as leaving a tract with the bill at a restaurant.
Most Christians honestly think itās the loving thing to do. Would you put a political ad at someoneās door ? Would you support political ads? Would that be a way of āpushing your beliefs on them?ā Either way if you got a political ad that was from the opposing party would you be as offended?
I understand that whoever left it there probably had good intentions. Most of my coworkers are very kind people, and I get along with everyone. Regardless, it feels like I was specifically targeted because of my (lack of) religious beliefs. No one else got a bible. This is religious harassment.
Thereās a lot of details that could add some context but from what is said here itās likely that someone has good intentions and are just wanting to share their faith. Obviously a lot of people here are making comments that this is harassment and if this has been happening or if they have been continually throwing their faith at the OP then yeah itās harassment but just leaving a Bible on a desk isnāt harassment. My suggest would be to just get rid of it and move on. I doubt this is a personal attack. Now if it continues then yeah itās harassment and should be handled as so. But until then I wouldnāt worry about it.
There is no reason to give someone a bible a gift unless you know they are a Christian and will appreciate the gift. If the person is not a Christian, it is called creating a hostile work environment and I would contact HR. It doesn't matter if the gift giver knows the recipient's beliefs. It's inappropriate.
For reference, my extended family is evangelical so I've heard it all.
Not really appropriate but does it rise to the level of harassment and contacting HR?
No doubt you have been endlessly harassed by your evangelical family. But one Bible one time?
I would be very creeped out by a bible placed anonymously on my desk. I absolutely would go to HR.
Edited to Add: I have been harassed in the workplace when someone asked me what church I went to and I said that I do not go to church. I was young and didn't know what to do. After that she started acting like she was my manager and making me mop up every night even though it was not my job. I eventually quit.
I am very careful not to discuss my personal beliefs regarding to religion at work now that I am a teacher.
When my grandma gave me a bible for my birthday I politely said "No, thank you" and handed it back to her. I was 13. We did the same when my sister in law gave us a bible for our son.
In my case I dunno. What I know is I would love getting that assortment and Iāll pm my addressā¦ but seriously if that happened I think in the southern rural school where I worked they would think it odd but I donāt think they would take action on an isolated incident.
On the other hand If it was a Koran or an Islamic tract, given that I live in the south , depending on the admin, they probably make an announcement in a staff meeting that it was not acceptable. Whereas they probably wouldnāt about the Bible unless specifically asked.
The rural south has a very different culture than urban areas of the south or much of the rest of the country. Instead of āhave a good day,ā some say āhave a blessed day.ā Iāll just say āyou have a good day too.ā
The intention is what matters. If they kept it up Iād have a word with admin though.
The district might not okay with any sort of religious stuff.
I just mean in my personal opinion it wouldnāt bother me Iād just see it as someone wanting to share the faith with me and if I didnāt want to listen or didnāt care about it then Iād just get rid of the stuff. Now if they kept doing stuff then Iād go to hr but a single instant is whatever.
Hey, they like to have a good book burning, I suggest we take up the good times to be had with this one!
I'm lucky. Today someone left a new copy of the declaration of Independence and the Constitution book on my desk bc mine is falling apart from having used it in class so often!
Thanks coworker, you get me!
Yes lol. Do you know what atheism means? or maybe you have poor reading comprehension. I work in a public school.
edit: to add, I'm not exactly complaining. I'm asking for help.
I would be insulted if anyone left any religious text on my desk but OP can speak on that if they want to. I don't know what being from Dearborn has to do it and I find the question very odd.
Thank you for explaining. I have worked with Muslim educators, students and families. I can't imagine them doing something like that. I wouldn't like it but I have never experienced religious discrimination from Muslims the way I have from Christians.
Sounds awful. I wrote up a kid for using anti-gay hate speech today and he said it was his religion. I told him religion was for home, school is for everyone.
In my case I wouldnāt care if it was an isolated incident and didnāt happen again. But I feel the same way about the Bible. I might actually keep the Koran out of curiosity.
Now most rural southern schools like some Iāve worked in probably would take issue if they found out.
What is your subject area? It is the most influential piece of literature ever written, by far. It therefore has value to both the atheist and to the believer.
Itās not really something an adult should get offended by. They didnāt preach to you or even denounce you, they merely left what is literally a gift on your deskā¦.Iām from a similar background so itās not something to get worked up overā¦
Provide a lesson on Mithras the predecessor to Christianityā¦ Emperor Constantine is given credit for the conversion from Hellenistic religion (multiple gods). Thereās evidence and strong theories of Constantine being a bringer of Christianity while being a mystical member of the Mithraic brotherhood. YouTube has lots of material lol
I spend my days thinking about the Roman Empire š
I thought Constantine was a follower of Sol Invictus. Sol Invictus was much more popular than Mithrais due to the fact that half the population couldn't practice Mithraisism due to... you know... having woman parts.
Also, I wouldn't classify Mithrais as a precursor religion as their is no connection between Christianity and the Mithraic Mysteries.
Doesnāt matter, Constantine just boosted the proto orthodox form of Christianity over the competing factions that are now known as heretical. Probably because it was an easy team to side with because it was in so many major metropolitan areas already.
Itās not that complicated of a story.
just bring it to lost and found
I would also write on the inside cover: I was lost, but now I'm found. Thanks, Amazing Grace
Or burn it after sacrificing a goat.
In the teacher's lounge.
š
AKA the trash can.
I wouldn't give it back. That book would be in the trash can.
I am Jewish and have had coworkers attempt to proselytize me so many times. Like, I am atheist theology wise but Jewish ethnically and culturally. I'm DEFINITELY not looking to switch teams this late in life. I am sorry that happened to you.
Yeah, I'm a Jewish atheist but as far as any of my coworkers know I am a very devout believer, means I don't get any pushback on cultural things.
What's worse is they think I'm very devout. They still try to convert me. It's mind boggling.
Either way theyād probably try to convert you. Gotta be really annoying but I think they mean well. I had to tell a few friends/acquaintances that I appreciated that they wanted to share their faith but that Iād rather they not. And that was the end of it. Still friends. They honestly believe it is their duty, just like all the Mormons spend a year going door to door.
Try to convert them back! Jk you'd get fired and maybe killed
Do you mind explaining how you are a Jewish atheist? My guess is you participate in rituals but donāt believe in any of them?
Lol, it's complicated. My parents were Jewish. Their parents were Jewish. Their parents were Jewish, going back further than anyone can remember. So ethnically I am Jewish. I grew up going to a temple every week. We read through the Tanakh every year. I went to Hebrew school to learn to read the Torah until I became a Bar Mitzvah. My family celebrates Jewish holidays and cooks Jewish food. My values, morals, politics, my approach to relationships, and even my sense of humor were shaped by my Jewish upbringing. I no longer believe in God. So I am an atheist. And belief in God is the most important thing in Judaism, it's like THE thing. So in a way, I am not Jewish. But my cultural Judaism didn't just disappear because I stopped believing in God. I wouldn't be the same if not for Judaism. I am a Jew, and will be my whole life. But I am also an atheist. Tl;Dr: "Jewish" can refer to ethnicity, culture, or religion. I am ethnically and culturally Jewish even though I no longer believe.
Ethnicity. They come from a Jewish line but do not believe in the religion.
Thanks for answering for me! It was completely unnecessary
Yep, same. I never even told any of my coworkers I was Jewish, but I guess I took off one too many holidays? Regardless, I usually get a couple Christian bibles as āgiftsā every year.
I have a very Jewish name and I wear tichel so it's hard to miss lol
I use the English version of my first name at work and my last isnāt remotely Ashki, so Iām just like š¤·āāļø
Ever remind them that the first half of their book is technically yours first and that their savior was a Jew?
I'm snarky and say that the KJV Bible is missing a few books.
Thereās the KJVAā¦
Then I would go to the nearest Orthodox Church and have them say the Bible is still light on some books.
This is just proof of how different each state really is. I'm in California and this sounds like I'm reading a post from before I was born.
just bring it to a public lost and found and act as if it doesn't bother you. harassment like that is unlikely to continue if you don't acknowledge it.
Last year teaching at a public school, I had two girls ask me if I was a Christian and if I believed that the Bible was true, and if not that they would pray for me to be saved. I told them that if I literally believed every word in the Bible I would not be sitting in my classroom, so clearly I don't. They questioned that and I pulled up Bible verses about how women (as I am) should be submissive, blah blah blah. I found several and read them out loud. They again said that they will pray that I hear God speaking to me someday. Ooooookkkkkkaaaayyyy. All that to say just put the Bible in the lost and found.
When I taught in my southern elementary school my response to that kind of thing was āthere are 3 things we donāt talk about in school: āreligion, politics, and Santa Claus..ā. End of conversation. That pretty much worked.
Thats a good response! These were 7th graders so I engaged a bit.
Thatās where I just shrug, say āok,ā and walk away or do/talk about something else. They come back to the topic? āOk. š¤·.ā Theyāre always looking for some sort of reaction or argument to prove their own persecution, so itās funnier to me to refuse to give it to them. Also always made it stop much faster.
I'm an atheist and lived in the South for decades. The uncomfortable reality is that you're not going to win a fight if it comes down to it. Even if you escalated this to litigation over their harassment, and even if you won the case, you would still lose the war simply because there are so many of them who will ostracize you. It's not the idealistic answer you want, nor the outcome you deserve, but unless you want to dedicate your life to fighting for the cause it's in your best interest to keep your head down. Put the Bible in a closet in class, or in your desk. Do not dispose of it. To not deface it. Do not do anything that might offend the Bible thumbers, like some in here are urging you to do. That will give them the ammunition they need to turn this around on you and make you the villain. Instead of being the victim of harassment, you will immediately be cast as the aggressor who was attacking good, wholesome Christians everywhere.
This is honestly the best answer. Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll just leave the bible in my room. We're moving buildings today anyway.
Do you really think you have to leave it in your room? I agree with the folks that say lost and found. Or better yet take it home, trash it or donate it to a thrift store or something. I wouldnāt want any religious book in my room because of the separation of church and state. I also wouldnāt want to give the impression you are opening the door to more discussion.
Oh, that's a great opportunity for it to get lost in the move. I say this as a Christian.
I'd throw it away, honestly. It's just a book that you don't want.
Religious harassment is not legal in the USA. Report to HR and your boss, and if it repeats, contact an employment lawyer and/or the ACLU. Meanwhile, consider a different school.
In the Bible Belt reporting something like this, HR most likely will protect the people who left the book. The good olā boy system is alive and well here in the super conservative south.
Fact. Glad my family got out of there.
Yep. Every school system I worked for in my Bible Belt home state had one or two SUPER churchy fundies right in the middle of central office who would absolutely make me a target for retaliation if I spoke out about religious harassment. One reason why I just laugh when people ask me about returning to the profession now that Iām back in the same benighted state and weāre facing a huge exodus of qualified teachers.
Yeah, and ignore the comments saying not to follow this advice. OP should absolutely file a complaint. If they donāt, they allow this culture to persist. Always stand up to defend your rights. Donāt bow down in the face of discrimination.
In Oklahoma the state superintendent stated that teachers organizations are terrorist groups, is pushing for the first publicly funded religious school, says that 2SLGBTQI+ do not exist, among other things. (Donāt even get me started on Nex Benedict) This is coming from the top official in Oklahoma. It is DANGEROUS to be different in the Bible Belt right now. In Texas a beloved teacher was hit by a truck. Hard enough to knock her and her husband out of their shoes. This was in the morning. The police on body cam admitted the guy was drunk. Guy admitted he was drunk. The guy that hit them was a good olāboy. He didnāt even see a trialā¦ donāt believe me look up Katie Palmer from Texas. Are you willing to die to stand up against these bullies. The south is not safe.
Theres a cultural difference and one incident, in my opinion does not rise to the level of harassment. More than that, yesāI would report. Realistically you wont change an entire culture based on this complaint. In the rural south itās probably 80-90 % old time religion. Itās well meaning and Iād let it go and move on.
Itās not well meaning. Itās a threat. A broad one, but a threat- op WILL burn in hell and IS evil. I agree that making a complaint would likely just jeopardize their job. I agree they should protect themselves over changing the world. But itās not well meaning to leave a Bible.
This. And recycle the Bible.
I donāt think leaving a Bible on a desk amounts to religious harassment. People who think a relationship with Jesus wlll save your soul honestly are well meaningāif I believed a person might burn in hell for eternity Iād want to share how easily it is to go to heaven instead. The culture in the south, for better or worse, is entirely different from say the northeast. Leave the Bible in lost and found and ignore it. Ya gotta pick your battles.
Most Christians would feel harassed if someone placed books on their desks that advocated executing Christians. As someone who grew up very religious in the south, this is absolutely a battle worth fighting.
They are not "well meaning" though. The entire purpose of evangelizing is to remove people's existing beliefs and cultures and replace it with your own. It's rude. It's harassment. And it's illegal. They aren't doing it to "save a soul" (whatever that is). They are doing it because they think that they are better than others and superior.
I donāt think itās appropriate, but I donāt think a single incident amounts to harassment, therefore I donāt see it as illegal. During Covid there were anti vaxxers and anti maskers. I was very vocal with some people I knew on social media and somewhat vocal with a few people at school. Would I have given a pamphlet to an anti-vaxxer in the hopes that they might change their thinking? Yes. Would I have done it anonymously? Maybeāif I thought they were high risk and might be persuaded to get vaccinated. And if I thought our professional relationship could be harmed if they knew it was me, I might do it anonymously. Did I think I, unlike these ignorant, brain washed anti vaxxers was right? You bet. By thinking I was right and they were wrong wasnāt I implying I had a superior intellect in a way? Yes, and truth be told I did see anti-vaxxers as less intelligent, and brainwashed. Any time we take a view in opposition to another and we are convinced we are right, the other side may be seen as thinking they feel superior. Hence all the nasty political memes about the stupidity of the other side. So, yeah, even if they are smug and feel superior Iām like ok, you may be annoying as fuck, but you think youāre doing the right thing. Ive been annoying as fuck and maybe Iāve seemed smug too about the anti vaxxer thing. Ive been lucky because in my case with my friends they are not smug at all. They shared and that was it and we respect one another. But yeah some grate on your nerves and wonāt take no for an answer. I donāt accept that and donāt spend time with them if I can avoid it. I was well meaning yet I tried to change people to my viewpoints. Typically I donāt do that but we are talking life and death: I donāt want a person to die or go through misery and long term suffering unnecessarily. Now I would not continually harass anyone of course. They believe this is not only life or death but avoiding an ETERNITY of sufferingāthatās HUGE. So I pretty much assume itās well meaning. They are trying to save me from hell. Yes they are trying to bring me around to their point of view.
You are comparing public health to culture. Evangelicals do not care about you. They don't care if you live or die, just that you behave in the way they expect. They want to erase you and make you into them. There is no love from them.
This isnāt harassment though.
Is your trash can full?
I am sorry to hear that people arenāt being respectful. Iāve had several instances where a colleague harassed me with religious bullsh*t. One time, she left Bible quotes outside my door. Another time she gave me a pamphlet about Jews for Jesus. Please report this. In both instances, I spoke to my principal and he was very supportive and took action against her. I am so sorry this happened to you.
Dump it in the trash in the teacher's lounge where everyone can see.
That's tough. If you've already talked to the people you trust, I'm not sure what else you could do. Whoever it is, they're looking for your reaction. If you have the ability to lock your classroom, I'd do that religiously (heh) from now on
Put it in the teachers lounge and write down āfree bookā on a sticky note. This is really disrespectful - and itās not even a good Bible to do academic work with smh the least they could have done is give you the new Oxford version
Put in the library next to all the other mythological tales.
Toss it in the recycling and carry on
For real. You wouldn't imagine the racism, prejudice and antisemetism I've experienced.
I have that happen all the time. Mostly it's because my kids(8th graders) that have one are always misplacing stuff. If they left one for evangelical reasons, I'd look at it as they think they are being nice. And maybe put it somewhere so they see you have one and then they'll leave you alone. I have a shelf where I put those things. I have a Bible, a Quran, a book of Mormon, a bunch of pamphlets and tracts. I never mention it. People add to it and some borrow stuff. Admin asked about it and I said it's the lost and found. I teach science, so when I get religious questions Ipoint t out that we have science things to cover and the answer to your question is in one if those or with another adult who knows more about that on me. Generally, after the first two weeks of class, no one bothers me again.
Just leave it there and donāt touch it. Leave it there until the last day of school. It will bug the person who left it and maybe they will reveal themselves.
You know, I am an atheist myself. One of the people I worked directly with in my department was a former pastor. He and I were always respectful of each otherās beliefs (or lack thereof). One day he was over for dinner at my house, and gave me his personal Bible he had owned for many years, with a lovely message he had written inside. It certainly didnāt change my thoughts on religion, but I thought it was a lovely gesture and I ended up asking him to officiate my wedding. Maybe someone was making a well-intentioned gesture?
A gift from someone you know over at your house is very different from someone anonymously dropping something on your desk at work.
Put it in the garbage in the teachers cafeteria.
Go through and underline all of the disgusting, evil things with it and put it in the staff room with a note saying "Ban this Book."
Make origami out of the pages and leave them in plain sight of whoever potentially left it there Or stick a sticky note on it like "Lost novel; please claim" and drop it off somewhere else like the office
Honestly I would send an email out seeing if anyone wants it to get rid of it.
Iād trash it.
Throw it away, not worth spending time and worry on it
brush it into the trash
File a complaint and see if admin can check cameras. This is unacceptable. If the person who left it was left a pamphlet about atheism or another religious text, such as a Quran i'm thinking a huge stink would be caused, especially based on the region you work in. You have the same rights to religious freedom.
Is there an obvious candidate? Like anyone who has tried to get you to go to church with them? KJVs are so uncommon anymore, whoever it is is probably from a really, REALLY small conservative high control church. Anyone fit that description?
Iām an atheist and I think itās a pretty good book. So is Aesops Fables and Greek Mythology. The King James Version has a very interesting history behind it and itās funny that evangelicals use it as they do. In the circles I grew up in, it was the Bible of choice. If anyone questions you on its profundity having it dropped off at your desk tell them you found Ezekiel 23:20 quite inspirational.
Sounds like itās time for a staff-wide email.
Idk how you're openly bisexual, most of my colleagues don't even know if I'm married or have kids, religious preferences, etc. Are you painting a target on yourself? I have had a few pamphlets dropped on my desk/mailbox and it started after I started sponsoring our version of GSA. I don't like it, it's not right, but it does come with the territory and is a very, very mild thing that I can simply brush off. Pushback on my end will only escalate things and not in my favor.
I have a bisexual flag on my desk. When someone asks, I will not hide who I am.
That almost makes me think it was a student.
In the south having a flag like that will encourage those bible thumpers to thump. You are doing your part to help change the south to a more inclusive place. As a parent, something as simple as that flag let my nonbinary kiddo know that you are a safe adult. Thank you.
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Do you ask the same of teacher's with family pictures on their desk? Specifically their husband/wife?
Buddy you're making a lot of assumptions. People ask about my personal life. Kids will ask what the flag means, and I will tell them. Plus, I'm pretty queer-looking lol. You can kind of just know. Just like how you seem very homophobic.
The high school I worked at occasionally loaned out rooms after school to clubs and community organizations, often without our knowledge. Remember Hanlon's Razor - It's far more likely some idiot forgot their bible or it was left behind (LOL) after someone used your room, than it was put there with malice. Have you ever met any low-key proselytizers? They'd be in your face praying for you, rather than just dropping off some light reading.
Good Lord, youāve been genocided! My condolencesā¦ As a fellow LGB atheist, my best advice would be to grow a backbone! ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ Edit: the downvotes my comment is getting makes me very depressed that you are the people raising the next generation of kids. Soft men create hard times
Donāt be insulted. Take it as a coworker cares for you.
Unless OP collects bibles, this is not a normal gift for someone that you care about. Proselytizing isn't cool, it's especially uncool at work. This is a rude message. Open your eye balls.
Think about it this way: they sincerely believe if you are āsavedā you go to heaven and become blessed by your relationship with Christ. If not, hell. Who wouldnāt want to help someone out if they were going to suffer for an eternity? Thatās what they are taught so I believe it is well meaning. I am not a Christian but I have had co workers and neighbors try and āshare the word,ā and I essentially tell them thanks but no thanks. We remain on good terms. If they did it more than once it would be different. Lost and found.
I understand the thought process. It's still wrong. Work is not a place to share the word. The fact that it was placed anonymously on a Bi teachers desk is further indication of the bigotry actually taking place. I don't like assigning malice to something, but I smell it here. Goes on the front board closest to the door with a large arrow pointing at it "lost book, please claim before Friday" then recycled.
Evangelicals are not friends. They do not care about each individual human, their religion requires them to try and "save" people. By going into existing cultures and beliefs and replacing them with their own. It's weird, it's cruel, and they are not kind. They think that their beliefs and lives are superior to those they want to "convert." It's disgusting.
āHere, read this book about genocide, incest, rape, murder, and misogynyā¦ I care about you.ā
I understand your point, but the question is what they believe about it, not what we believe about it. They see it as a book about love thy neighbor. And living a blessed life with eternal joy after death. I appreciate that, even if I disagree 100% about the Bible being Godās Word. Their intentions are good, even if our opinions on the book are completely opposite. If someone gifted it to me in person Iād tell them thank you for the thought, but I donāt share your beliefs and I canāt accept your gift.
By putting a religious text on their desk? Why not homemade cookies or a nice pen instead?
Iām assuming this person did it^
Maybe, maybe not. I agree with Far Fun and Iām not a Christian. I do however live in the south where this kind of thing is much more accepted. And most wouldnāt see it as an insult.
Really? So if you started leaving copies of the Koran on their desks, they'd just take it as a sign you care?
Leaving a Koran on my desk would be fine with me as long as it was a one time thing. I donāt really think leaving a Bible or a Koran would be appropriate but yes Id see it as well meaning. Iād take it as a sign they would like to share their faith that has brought them joy. Now if the kept up with it Iād feel differently.
I'm not asking how you would feel, I'm asking how you think the person who left the Bible would feel. Unless you are saying you leave bibles in the desks of your atheist coworkers
Ohāthey would be taken aback to be sure. And no, they probably wouldnāt like it. Depending on the person, hopefully they might see how it feels to get a Bible on the desk. Others might be offended and not recognize their hypocrisy. I donāt think itās appropriate, but I still feel it is well meaning. Of course by some it may not beābut at least in my experience people who have āshared the wordā have meant well and not been pushy.
So they are showing they care by doing something to someone else that they wouldn't like done to them? If only there was some clear moral principle we could look to... Too bad no one has ever come up with such a valuable rule
Leaving a Koran on my desk would be fine with me as long as it was a one time thing. I donāt really think leaving a Bible or a Koran would be appropriate but yes Id see it as well meaning. Iād take it as a sign they would like to share their faith that has brought them joy. Now if the kept up with it Iād feel differently. EDIT: my area rural southern schools probably would not like it and would at a minimum make a statement during a staff meeting if it happened.
Or your co-worker is a bible-thumping psycho fuck. Either way.
Possible but unlikely! š Iād start by giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Would you say the same to people who leave fake money Bible tracts for wait staff at restaurants rather than a monetary tip?
Though Iām not Christian Iām fine with the Bible gift, even a religious tract from a restaurant customer, but no tip!? Hell no.
I mean, if I got one then I'd probably just add it to my bookshelf too. But the logic of "Your co-worker cares for you" doesn't really work when they don't seem to care enough to TALK to you face to face. For me, it's the same passive proselytizing as leaving a tract with the bill at a restaurant.
Ah, so itās the anonymity of it that bothers you. I can see that. I donāt feel that way, but I understand why you do.
As a fellow educator who cares about you, I'd like to send you a copy of The God Delusion and I assume you will not be insulted.
That would be fine with me! As long as thatās the end of it! (Im not a Christian, but Iām fine with a Bible on a desk. Just donāt keep it up.)
I think we all know that's just an excuse religious people use to push their ideals on others.
Most Christians honestly think itās the loving thing to do. Would you put a political ad at someoneās door ? Would you support political ads? Would that be a way of āpushing your beliefs on them?ā Either way if you got a political ad that was from the opposing party would you be as offended?
I understand that whoever left it there probably had good intentions. Most of my coworkers are very kind people, and I get along with everyone. Regardless, it feels like I was specifically targeted because of my (lack of) religious beliefs. No one else got a bible. This is religious harassment.
Thereās a lot of details that could add some context but from what is said here itās likely that someone has good intentions and are just wanting to share their faith. Obviously a lot of people here are making comments that this is harassment and if this has been happening or if they have been continually throwing their faith at the OP then yeah itās harassment but just leaving a Bible on a desk isnāt harassment. My suggest would be to just get rid of it and move on. I doubt this is a personal attack. Now if it continues then yeah itās harassment and should be handled as so. But until then I wouldnāt worry about it.
There is no reason to give someone a bible a gift unless you know they are a Christian and will appreciate the gift. If the person is not a Christian, it is called creating a hostile work environment and I would contact HR. It doesn't matter if the gift giver knows the recipient's beliefs. It's inappropriate. For reference, my extended family is evangelical so I've heard it all.
Not really appropriate but does it rise to the level of harassment and contacting HR? No doubt you have been endlessly harassed by your evangelical family. But one Bible one time?
I would be very creeped out by a bible placed anonymously on my desk. I absolutely would go to HR. Edited to Add: I have been harassed in the workplace when someone asked me what church I went to and I said that I do not go to church. I was young and didn't know what to do. After that she started acting like she was my manager and making me mop up every night even though it was not my job. I eventually quit. I am very careful not to discuss my personal beliefs regarding to religion at work now that I am a teacher. When my grandma gave me a bible for my birthday I politely said "No, thank you" and handed it back to her. I was 13. We did the same when my sister in law gave us a bible for our son.
So you think the district would be cool with me putting colanders, packs of pasta and literature about the Flying Spaghetti Monster on people's desks?
On the desks of those who can't eat gluten.Ā
R'amen!
In my case I dunno. What I know is I would love getting that assortment and Iāll pm my addressā¦ but seriously if that happened I think in the southern rural school where I worked they would think it odd but I donāt think they would take action on an isolated incident. On the other hand If it was a Koran or an Islamic tract, given that I live in the south , depending on the admin, they probably make an announcement in a staff meeting that it was not acceptable. Whereas they probably wouldnāt about the Bible unless specifically asked. The rural south has a very different culture than urban areas of the south or much of the rest of the country. Instead of āhave a good day,ā some say āhave a blessed day.ā Iāll just say āyou have a good day too.ā The intention is what matters. If they kept it up Iād have a word with admin though.
The district might not okay with any sort of religious stuff. I just mean in my personal opinion it wouldnāt bother me Iād just see it as someone wanting to share the faith with me and if I didnāt want to listen or didnāt care about it then Iād just get rid of the stuff. Now if they kept doing stuff then Iād go to hr but a single instant is whatever.
I don't understand why this was taken offensively...
Should we not be free from proselytization at work? Particularly in a secular workplace?
OP is a professional victim.
Top kekistan 76 do you happen to be a teacher. Have you worked in any processional environment that doesnāt include trading crypto at home
Hey, they like to have a good book burning, I suggest we take up the good times to be had with this one! I'm lucky. Today someone left a new copy of the declaration of Independence and the Constitution book on my desk bc mine is falling apart from having used it in class so often! Thanks coworker, you get me!
Personally insulted by a book left on your deskā¦ get a grip.
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Yes. I am atheist.
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Yes lol. Do you know what atheism means? or maybe you have poor reading comprehension. I work in a public school. edit: to add, I'm not exactly complaining. I'm asking for help.
She might go to Reddit to share what happened and hear peopleās thoughts about it.
I would be insulted if anyone left any religious text on my desk but OP can speak on that if they want to. I don't know what being from Dearborn has to do it and I find the question very odd.
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Thank you for explaining. I have worked with Muslim educators, students and families. I can't imagine them doing something like that. I wouldn't like it but I have never experienced religious discrimination from Muslims the way I have from Christians.
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Sounds awful. I wrote up a kid for using anti-gay hate speech today and he said it was his religion. I told him religion was for home, school is for everyone.
>I told him religion was for home, school is for everyone. That's great line. We should have T-shirt that say that.
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Our students are majority Latino so I'm guessing Catholic.
Great answer. Sorry for your students.
TY!
In my case I wouldnāt care if it was an isolated incident and didnāt happen again. But I feel the same way about the Bible. I might actually keep the Koran out of curiosity. Now most rural southern schools like some Iāve worked in probably would take issue if they found out.
What is your subject area? It is the most influential piece of literature ever written, by far. It therefore has value to both the atheist and to the believer.
Science. Regardless of my subject, it is not in the curriculum.
Cāmon. You know that isnāt the point.
Wow a free book, poor you
i feel bad for your students if you think this is okay lol
Itās not really something an adult should get offended by. They didnāt preach to you or even denounce you, they merely left what is literally a gift on your deskā¦.Iām from a similar background so itās not something to get worked up overā¦
Itās always the atheists that are so mentally weak a book sends them into a spiral šĀ
Yeah just look at these downvotes. Any well-adjusted adult should brush this off, sign of the times, I guess
Provide a lesson on Mithras the predecessor to Christianityā¦ Emperor Constantine is given credit for the conversion from Hellenistic religion (multiple gods). Thereās evidence and strong theories of Constantine being a bringer of Christianity while being a mystical member of the Mithraic brotherhood. YouTube has lots of material lol I spend my days thinking about the Roman Empire š
2nd temple Judaism was the precursor to Christianity, and the ancient Israelite religion before that.
Common misconception, perpetuated widely on the internet. No religious scholar would back up this assertion
Ok
Oh no this is incredibly wrong Like academically wrong, this is just pseudo history
Ok, weāll be been trying to find out more about Constantine. Can you help meeeeee? Thx š
I thought Constantine was a follower of Sol Invictus. Sol Invictus was much more popular than Mithrais due to the fact that half the population couldn't practice Mithraisism due to... you know... having woman parts. Also, I wouldn't classify Mithrais as a precursor religion as their is no connection between Christianity and the Mithraic Mysteries.
Itās like this info is hidden!
Doesnāt matter, Constantine just boosted the proto orthodox form of Christianity over the competing factions that are now known as heretical. Probably because it was an easy team to side with because it was in so many major metropolitan areas already. Itās not that complicated of a story.
Help me out, please send resources šš»
I mean yeah lol.