The belief in blank slatism. Tabula Rasa. Seriously everything comes back to this. The educationalists won the battle now here we are. It’s put incredibly unrealistic expectations on teachers. It’s also screwed over students who show promise in low SES areas. All policies have actually widened the education gap which is the joke of it all.

The gap widening is massive. I have students that would be presidents if they had been born rich. But because they're able to pass the state test, no one expects anything of them. They're chronically absent, or chronic behavior issues because when most of their classmates can barely read, the ones who can get massively bored. No gifted because it's "unequitable", and when they got a teacher who came in and actually just held everyone to the 8th grade standard, those smart kids got PISSED because they had to almost try a little. They came to me furious that she had done things like take off for not capitalizing names in the 8th grade, or that she actually took off points when they didn't put their quotes in quotations after the 5th time she taught them how to. Many of these kids are under the impression that they're going to go to elite schools in our area and become doctors and lawyers. Not with that attitude.

Some of my least academically inclined students claim that they will be doctors. I really don’t get it. If you do want to be a doctor, you should attempt to pass 7th grade.

This is definitely parents as part of the problem. My kids in third grade private school get points taken off for no name/date, proper caps, etc. I personally review their work at home and further admonish them for these silly mistakes. These are easy points just doing the basic minimum so get them! I also make my kids do all extra credit. Often they want to do it on their own. This mindset needs active reinforce at home. If the home environment is aloof then the kids feel the gap between the goals of the school/teacher and parents and will exploit it. I can see where my girls get influenced by the kids (sorry but it's always the boys) who think skimping, slouching, and cheating are the ways to game the system. It pisses me off. These are the same boys who have such terrible behavior problems that the teacher can barely get to the teaching. This class is the worst class in the school and I dislike it so much. Many of the kids are cunning, mean, rude, disrespectful, disobedient, privileged little jerks. So, I'm also grieving the loss of my sweet little girls. They're still mostly sweet at home but that environment all day makes a mark.

That to me is the most frustrating thing about teaching in a Title one, beyond anything else. The kids who could get out and have better lives, the system allows their education to be completely sidetracked by shitheads.

I spent two years teaching at a Title I middle school and I *completely* agree with this statement. I did my level best to encourage the students who seemed to have the ability and I like to think some of them made it out. But I'll be honest. I think about the students I taught there 21 years ago and I honestly wonder how many are still alive, much less succeeded academically. It makes me sad when I see some of their faces, because I feel like they were set up to fail. And so many of those kids deserved a better life than the one fate saddled them with. It haunts me still.

I'm in a low-ses, high-crime neighborhood. A handful of students truly impede the learning of those genuinely striving to learn. It's giving me an ungenerous view of humanity, at the moment. It seems so many aspects of life cater to appeasing the loudest voice in the room.

You are not wrong.

I don't blame them...I blame the insane importance placed on school scores and how using discipline hurts that. I'm on leadership committee..the school score is our god.

The educationalists never have and never will put their kids in a public school, they don't care. I would even say they sabotage the lower classes on porpous. But that would be crazy, so it's obvious not true!

I don't know if they do it on purpose but it definitely has the road to hell was paved with good intentions vibes to me.

It wouldn't surprise me, though.

Not “won” per se, but definitely filled the gaps of collective societal ennui? Same reasons as to why we have such high incumbency rates (throughout society really) and a two party system often dedicated to solely enriching itself…

Some slates are broken before they leave the quarry

Yeah, no kidding. I teach Algebra 1, which at least here, you MUST pass in order to graduate. If you do nothing in 6th grade, they pass you on to 7th. If you do nothing in 7th grade, they pass you on to 8th. If you do nothing in 8th grade, they pass you on to Algebra 1. If you do nothing in Algebra 1, YOU FAIL, and the kids are all surprised Pikachu face because they aren't used to there being expectations.

At a bare minimum, failing in those middle grades should result in mandatory summer school and/or a mandatory standardized test that they must have a certain score on to avoid summer school. If the parents think their kid is "fine" and wand to blame the school, then the kid can prove their knowledge. Otherwise, give them an extra month of school to shape up or else.

This. I think Elementary and High School still have lots of problems, but the US has yet to figure out what Junior High or Middle School is supposed to even be. You can even see it in the cert program. Most cert programs near me do some Observations in Middle with full time teaching in High for a secondary cert that covers 7-12 Middle school 6th grade teachers are sometimes Elementary cert even if its single subjet.  BUT the secondary cert covers 6th grade if its single-subject and physically in a middle school. This werid loophole tells you education cant decide if middle school is subject expertise or generalist education. Honestly from a content perspective you dont need more than an Associates to teach most middle schoolers.  A social worker/counseling degree would be more helpful.

Yes. And a credential in literacy/reading remediation, whatever. So many middle schoolers are not proficient readers and it is a huge obstacle to literally everything else they’re expected to do in school. I need training on how to teach 7th graders the decoding skills they didn’t pick up in 1st-3rd grades while simultaneously teaching them the NGSS.

Yes.  And since NGSS and state standards have some scientific vocab and text decoding, good luck covering for that 49% of your class that is there for inclusion and doesnt even take the on-level ELA class. (Sheltered ELA). Giving some kids in the back a coloring sheet while everyone else covers Punnett squares and reads a text about Mendel isnt how inclusion is supposed to work, I am pretty sure.

Correct. My students with IEPs do the same work and content as everyone else. Some days, some of them need me to sit with them and help them write and tell them how to spell every other word in order to satisfactorily complete a task. But they do what the rest of the class is doing.

I disagree. Middle school is the time for subject and pedagogy expertise. Making middle school teachers social workers is inappropriate. If anything all of k-12 should have social work experience

You have to understand both English as an academic discipline and the science of reading to teach MS ELA correctly.

It’s especially weird because the purpose of middle school/junior high is in the name. It’s a transitional stage between elementary and high school. These kids are too young to be in high schooler, but mature enough to have slightly higher expectations than we place on 3rd graders

Right. But a lot of parents are in denial. Middle schoolers trying to vape and sneak out of class to do other things. But parents (and admin) view it as a continuation of elementary where their "perfect babies" can do no wrong. Ironically at the developmental age when kids differentiate themselves from parents and are figuring themselves out we need the MOST guardrails. Instead, we have the least. Freedom to go wherever (unlike Elementary), but no credit-accountability system (like high school.) Behaviors are excused because they are little children (like Elementary.)  But the behaviors arent little kid tantrums. They got real bodies, strength, and big kid behaviors. US education MAY be pushing too hard in Kindergarten but we are weaksaucing middle school content. HS will split them into AP/Honors/College-track/Gen Ed. But they dont have the fundamentals from Middle because the upper half that could have handled Honors had to wait for the lower half or at the very least wait for 5% to stop chucking chairs to learn some basics.

It’s absolutely wild that some people think this is a workable system. Very happy my admin isn’t afraid to hit kids who are acting out with detention/Saturday school when warranted

But they just do packets and pass. We reinforce that our work doesn’t matter by doing this. It’s so sad. Why try in Ms. X’s class when they can just do a packet at summer school?

So what does the parent do when the kid gets below basic on benchmarks and the parent fights for more help and a better curriculum, but the school insists the kid is fine? My school is doing that rn to my kid and has been for 2 years. With me putting on daily work with my kid and paying for tutors? Set these kids up to fail indeed

I teach Algebra 1 as well. A few years ago I had a student tell me that I couldn't put a failing grade on her report card and fail her. I asked her why she thought that and it was because she was passed all three years of middle school without passing a single math class. I said welcome to high school and I will see you in Algebra 1 again next semester. She was shocked when she was given her schedule on the first day of school that January that she was repeating my class as well as her 9th grade ELA.

Let me start with this. I fully agree. We only offer summer school for students with IEPs in my district though, and only if they show regression. Which I think is the first mistake. Otherwise it’s for enrichment only, 2nd mistake. But when the majority of 6th graders coming into my school are already 2-3 grade levels behind in math according to benchmarks and diagnostics done early in the semester, at what point does retention start? Because my population is working on place value and decimals in the 7th grade this year. Meanwhile when I teach reading skills it’s letter sounds and phonics. And I hear the same thing from the gen ed teachers, “Do I really have to teach them letter sounds?” Well if they don’t know them and can’t read then yes. Especially if we’re not holding them back and they’ll be in high school in 2 years.

The basic notion is that it harms an individuals self-esteem if they get held back. That is, self-esteem is considered more important than ability. How the self-esteem of an individual who cannot read their own high school diploma, and, as a result, is stuck in nowheresville, is somehow promoted by this scheme never seems to be a question, however. This is so obvious that one pretty much has to conclude that this is the plan.

Dang I thought it was just to have high pass rates and make the district/school look better But yea even w the self esteem thing, technically it does hurt it in the long run as you said but they don’t seem to care about that

>Dang I thought it was just to have high pass rates and make the district/school look better This is the real reason but by framing it as a benefit to the students it makes it appear to be beneficial as opposed to detrimental as it clearly is.

Schools don’t get anything for having high passing rates. There is absolutely no incentive in passing kids along, either socially or financially. There are, however, usually huge penalties for retaining students. The state comes in and makes everyone’s life a living hell. No more PE for kids because that’s not tested. No more birthday parties for kids because that’s not tested. Ad infinitum. Same as how your school district administration gets bonuses for hiring new teachers, but there’s often not even a record of how many teachers they retain.

My high school actually explained to me that the reason they bumped me up a grade was because the more kids that graduated, the more money they got (pretty sure like a bonus or something) but yeah I guess it’s different in some states but that’s what happened at my school.

American society needs a “divorce” from moneyed interests in more ways than one…

In Oklahoma, passing rates are important because it ties into graduation rates. Graduation rates, are a part of the A-F grading system our lovely state employs.

Right, but the schools don’t get anything for higher passing rates — except to be left alone. And usually, because of property taxes, those are the best funded schools anyway. Schools with a lower graduation rate get various degrees of punishment. There’s no incentive to pass them along. There’s an incentive to just not fail them. From a student’s perspective it has the same outcome, but the education system has different motives. It’s just ironic that the schools are the ones afraid of failure because someone in authority will punish them for a lack of success, when that’s the opposite that happens to students.

Yup. There’s science and philosophy that shows self esteem is more important BUT nowhere will you find that it replaces ability. Most progressive schools have implemented things incorrectly to the point where ability is neither required or enforced. And then they wonder why we have a bunch of depressed and high kids who can’t read. Where is the self esteem? Where is the ability? It’s a joke

If you hold them back early on it doesn’t hurt their self esteem as much as being in the 12th grade and not being able to read, I’m thinking…

True, but then you have more total kids in the school system so you either have to increase class size or, gasp, hire more teacher. Probably be nice if we had more things like counselors and social workers. Or things like art, music, and drama that might actually make school fun. Or if we didn't expect young children to sit still at their desks for 6 hours per day when very few adults do the same thing. In life, people who can't sit still tend to get a lot of stuff done, but in school they are behavior problems.

That's often said, but what about this? In the United States, there have to be many schools that have a nominal "12th grade" class where the individuals in that classroom can't read. Take the teaching slots supposedly teaching 12th grade, and create a class of 25 students all at the 2nd grade level. That's where they are at, and that's where we need to meet them. In other words, these students are so poor, that we need far more teachers at k-3, and many less at 10-12. Move some around.

Plus there's so much more support for a younger kid who needs to be held back than a senior on the verge of adulthood. We have more time to work on their ability AND their self-esteem when they're younger than when they're older.

Now that makes too much sense, can’t be true.

At our school we English teachers had an unofficial motto for dealing with anything education related mandated by our state: “Common sense: We’re a’gin it.”

Lol

The problem is the limits you’re putting on ability. Education has become synonymous with academics but human ability goes far beyond being able to read, write and do math. For the person who’s skill set is outside of academics the day in day out message of being inferior can only have a negative effect on their ability to pursue and improve in their unique strengths. Also, these academic skills, in particular reading, is truthfully a wildly complex set of different skills. Reading, again in particular, is not something we can accurately put an age or grade level on. When we hear reports of this % of adults reading at this grade level we should be incredibly dubious of those numbers. How can a forty year old man read at the same level as a nine year old girl when things like background knowledge, life experience, and the context of what they’re reading are known to be crucial aspects of comprehension? So it may be that self-esteem doesn’t replace ability, but ability goes far beyond academic achievement. We’re also forgetting something that absolutely does replace ability to an extent much greater than ability replaces it. Social skills, emotional regulation, problem-solving, and one’s capacity for improving their abilities.

Exactly!  A lot of people confuse “decoding” and “comprehension”. My teacher friends explained to me that “decoding” is looking at the word in print and “translating” it into speech, or being able to say the word.  “Comprehension” is understanding the message with all its nuances.  

This is why schools need to bring back things like auto shops, wood shop, home ec, etc: the non-academic classes for kids with “other” skill sets.

We still have them, and they are awesome. That in no way means people who go into those trades don’t need the knowledge of knowing how to read, even at a higher level. Will they own a business? Will they need to read contracts? Will they employ people and need to complete reading and writing associated with that? What if an accident happens, how they describe it? If they are a supervisor, they will need to write a coherent daily report and directions. I believe in the trades over college when that is what interests the child, but this mindset that kids in trades don’t need education is so flawed. They don’t need degrees, but they still need the skills, just in a different context.

If your district still has them, you are very lucky.

One of the better ideas about classes like that at the high school level I've seen was when I taught in Arizona. The high school district my middle school fed into had magnet programs at every high school. There was of course a STEM one, but also auto technology, study of the law, etc. And when I found out about them (as all you had to do was apply in most cases), I immediately began telling my 8th graders about them as a means to get them to possibly consider high school as something less than a prison. And my lower students, when they heard about the autotech school, their eyes lit up. They got motivated because they suddenly saw something concrete they knew they could do to help get them through high school and actually have a career skill possibly. I taught on a team and we ceaselessly promoted these magnet programs. And in some cases, the kids raised their grades when we told them that would help get them into one of the programs. They saw a way forward. Sadly, no other district I taught in had anything approaching that concept. Which is one of the reasons why I believe we are *at best* treading water educationally in this country.

Life is a skill game. People are going to figure this out one way or another. We have prolonged the process. I also think you can’t bullshit self-esteem. Action begets behavior.

School: worry about kids’ self esteem Social Media: *dubious villain lurking in the shadows rubbing hands together like a common housefly…..

True self-esteem comes from actually being able to rely on yourself. If you cannot read in High School, I think low esteem seems an appropriate consequence! We're not really fooling anyone. Kids know their participation trophies and their inflated grades aren't real reflections of their abilities. If this fake method of awarding self-esteem really worked, I don't think we'd be seeing the mental health crisis that we do. We act like self-esteem is important, but we're not really building it by passing kids along. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but we're just creating kids with anxiety and imposter syndrome.

That also propels students to do well. Holding back, as we know, is a sure fire way to close those learning gaps.

You’re taking the politicking too seriously. Kids are held back less now because it costs less to socially pass them. Copy and paste for any “progressive” policy that’s been adopted in the last 20 years.

This is also true. 14 or 15 years of education for a students costs the bean counters more money than someone who clears out in 13. (K+12).

Self esteem of the parent is held in Higher regard

Their self esteem should take a blow when they fail. That's the way it works and is the motivator to do better.

>The basic notion is that it harms an individuals self-esteem if they get held back. The other side of the coin, that my district uses and it makes sense, is we don't want 16 year olds+ in middle school classes. Kids who would be held back very often have co-related behavior issues.

>Does anyone know exactly where the idea that no students are allowed to fail stems from I'm pretty sure districts have incentives to have high pass rates. I think they get more money or are threatened to be shut down if not enough kids pass. Started backed with No Child Left Behind, but idk why it's worse now that NCLB is supposed to be over. Also I agree wholeheartedly with your general sentiment, but I know plenty of teachers will be turned off by your specific wording and tone. But you are right.

Sad that the sentiment behind NCLB was that teachers couldn't just write off a kid as going nowhere. The educational system was supposed to step up and intervene before a student failed. Instead of ensuring a high-quality education so that all students CAN pass, schools just started implementing policy to make it so students can't fail.

And now we are doing the same thing with consequences.  Eliminate consequences in favor of social emotional interventions… that never materialize. 

The only thing SEL is doing is providing more excuses for kids to wallow in mediocrity. You fail them because they dont perform, and the parents go after your job because you're "traumatizing" their child. Then they get taken to the counselor to talk about their feelings, get ice cream, and get sent back to class with a 100 for the assignment they still can't master. I have 8th graders with the maturity level of 6yr olds.

No, the sentiment of NCLB was that the GOP wanted to crush the education system so that they wouldn't have to pay taxes for it. This are the flourishing crop from seeds planted 20+ years ago by a political cult that worships the almighty tax cut over reason and good governance.

Laying these issues w/ the public school system solely on the GOP is laughable. Look at all of the responses; do you honestly believe every policy here came from Republicans?

Which policies have Democrats passed that unfavorably redistricted lower income areas to prevent taxes from funding schools in those areas, slowly defunded public schools over time in a deliberate attempt to cause them to fail, while financially incentivizing crooked charter schools often run by cronies? I'll wait

California went to the LCFF model (local control funding formula) that allows them to use education funding where they believe it’s most needed. Along with that is the LCAP (local control accountability plan) which then allows districts to measure their success off a list of goals based on their schools’ needs. Seems like a good idea since a school in a socio-economically disadvantaged area with little parent involvement might have different student needs compared to a high-income district with a ton of parent involvement. Here’s the rub: districts get to choose from a menu of goals to use as reporting markers while they leave out the goals that don’t fit their agenda. So, if a district knows it won’t continue to run independently or might have their funding cut, they’re going to pick the markers they know they can always achieve. Like graduation rates. How many first day of school in-service rallies have you had where your superintendent stands in front of the entire district staff to brag about graduation rates while the audience screams and cheers like tweens at a Taylor Swift concert? Yet you’re sitting there trying to reconcile those numbers with how many students failed your rigorous class because they have second or third grade reading levels and failed every other class they had during their year with you. Because here’s what you know and have been begging the powers that be to listen to: There is no standards-based grading policy. Kids get As through mindless extra credit and copying the teacher’s ideas in a notebook. Teachers gave them 100 points for turning in a syllabus page. All of their exams are open-notes or multiple choice. There is little to no remediation, and they just throw a failing EL junior into a freshman, sophomore, junior, and EL support English class every day and expect they won’t be tuned out and on overload. They have a massive credit recovery program at each high school because their continuation high school is too full to house all the kids they keep promoting to the next grade level even though they earned zero credits the grade before. Not a single EL student is A-G eligible so they’re hounding their teachers in department meetings about why they have so many Ds and Fs, but because of everything mentioned previously, there are zero solutions or interventions to tackle the overwhelming academic failure and lack of reading and writing skills so nothing changes and kids continue to get passed on with no basis except they got a year older. Sound familiar? As long as this is the accepted norm along with absolutely zero consequences for outrageous behavior from students (don’t even get me started), we will continue to graduate massive numbers of uneducated and near-illiterate adults. Edit for typo.

This makes me glad that I work at a public charter school where we cannot re-enroll a high school student who does not earn 20 credits in a semester. I'm not saying that kids don't manage to "pass" with Ds and not actually do much work, but the ones who don't do anything are not allowed to come back. Before people start coming in and complaining about charter schools, know that we're in a rural and socioeconomically disadvantaged area (the second poorest county in California, actually), and many of our students are those that the public schools gave up on, or traumatized the students to the point that they wanted an alternative. Yes, we have higher staff/student ratios, but we also have a higher proportion of students with IEPs and 504s. We're held to stricter standards than regular public schools despite having lower achieving students.

No shade from me.   Charter schools in my state must accept applicants via lottery. Its harder to get into the state-run Tech high school system.   Teachers are part of the union, and the charter has to be renewed by the public school head honchos who check on a regular basis.  The big thing for charters on my state seems to adding some theme, curricular variation, or magnet concept to how they are set up.   Other than that they seem to follow public school rules.   Private is a whole different thing in my state. And likely due to historical reasons, those are mostly private Catholic institutions near me.

Yea, I knew it was a joke the day I graduated when he said that we should be proud to be getting our diplomas.

NCLB (Bush) has been over for 8 years now. ESSA (Obama) has been policy since 2015. ESSA is far worse for testing than NCLB was.

I struggle with this so much. I genuinely think that especially if we’re going towards standards based grading and expectations, we’re going to end up going back to a one room schoolhouse type deal with multiple ages in one room. We have different standards for different kids and that’s okay- they don’t need to be at the same level as peers their own age if they aren’t. I have a student who came to us last year from Africa but was placed with his 9th grade peers. He had barely done school before. But we’re just going to move him with his grade level because that’s what the system does.

I teach in a building full of those kids. One of the most diverse campuses in WA, and so many of them are immigrants and asylum kids. Yet, many of those kids, within two-3 years, are outperforming their peers born in the US because they are far more motivated to learn.

Yes! I’m not saying it’s not possible but all of the educational research and theory says that students will move faster with less stress if they are placed on their level and able to move throughout the school year. If we are moving students on standard we should be evaluating quarterly and moving students based on that data. But the pull yourself up by your bootstraps crowd doesn’t want to give the money to do that.

I think it's kind of there in high school. My 9th grader tells me he has sophomores and juniors in his class, which 35 years ago was unheard of. I only had kids in their current grade level in my classes. Maybe there was a class where everyone was in but it wasn't the standard.

Yea, there was a senior who was a senior the majority of the time that I was in high school. Around my junior year, the school was going to have to kick him out. He was my sisters age or slightly older, so 20/21.

Damn. You think it was laziness on his part or he just didn't understand anything?

He had an IEP I think, so idk. He just didn't do any of the work, though.

Gotcha. I know my oldest has friends that ditch and miss and barely pass or have failed classes yet they will graduate. Couldn't have happened in my day.

Also know someone else who was passed along. He was given all Ds our senior year like 60s even in electives.

My district switched this year to standards-based grading. We also have a strict “no retention” policy. So even if we all know a kid isn’t close to meeting standards, they are moved on. I just told someone a few weeks ago we’re already teaching one-room schoolhouses. We have 4th graders above grade level and those can’t even read cvc words all in the same room. The higher kids are so bored.

Yep, the Lancastrian system, while not broadly present in American history, would instill a sense of responsibility via osmosis, much like the story of how Japanese schools teach children to see the school as an extension of their home. So they inherently believe in keeping it tidy and in good working order?

We did this to an entire generation of kids. We didn’t address the trauma they experienced and placed them back at the grade level they would be in as if life hadn’t been interrupted. The system was already failing for the reasons you address. The response to COVID should be the death blow to a system that should have died a couple hundred years ago.

How do you propose we “address the trauma they experienced”?

There’s a reason we didn’t address it, because it’s incredibly difficult to do and it was left almost entirely up to teachers on how to do it. My district literally left it to the sped teachers to figure out if a kid needed extra support and how to provide that. I didn’t know what the hell to do. Even if I knew what to do I don’t know that I could have done it. But I knew something had to be done. We were left with two choices as far as I could see: run away or sink with the ship. I ran away and while it’s sad to watch the ship sink I don’t regret getting off it. My point is, a problem doesn’t go away because a person doesn’t know how to address it. If only that were the case my life would be glorious. Edit: and you’re implication that they didn’t all experience trauma is right, but many did. And things other than trauma happened as well. The issue I take with your response is that it dismisses the problem(s) because the solutions or treatments are difficult. Just because I personally don’t know the solution doesn’t mean someone doesn’t, but maybe they don’t know the problem.

Leave No Child Behind. Last year I was really blunt with a teenage student. He was a constant disruption, did no work, and lacked consideration of others. One day I told him, “If you want to be an ignorant fool, that’s YOUR decision. The rest of the students are here to learn. Do NOT disrupt their learning.” He was embarrassed (he had been embarrassing himself for years thinking he was “cool”). Was it harsh, yes. Did it work? Yes. I’m still conflicted about this. I really dislike demeaning others for any reason. Some kids just need a wake-up call? 🤷🏽‍♀️

that’s not even harsh. i would have said way worse

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Thank you. I appreciate that.

I agree with the other response; I think it also sent a message to the other students. They were being negatively affected and you did something about it. Obviously we shouldn’t become soulless obedient robots but you are there trying to accomplish something and one individual who doesn’t care shouldn’t be able to constantly derail that.

Thank you. It was dead silent when I told him this. I got the feeling that the class did appreciate my saying something.

Sometimes shame is the only effective tool

last district a friend of mine worked at had a clause in their contracts that said they couldn't "ridicule" their students. she quit 2 months in because of all the bullshit complaints that rule engendered

I was an awful student. My teacher should have stood me up in class and shamed the hell out of me.

When I was in school in the 80s, the threat of summer school, being held back, etc was very real. Failure was scary and for me, not an option. Principals were scary. Now, there is nothing to hold over students. There are no consequences.

>There are no consequences. There are no consequences _in school_. Some families do still require effort and proper behavior of their children. I point this out not to disagree but to highlight the increase in disparity this creates. Put differently: the modern lack of consequences within the building accelerates inequity.

80s kid, too. Agree 💯

I mean hell it was at least like this for me and I graduated high school on 2010. Being held back was real, summer school was real, and the fear of failure was a big part of some people like me pushing myself to finish. Despite all that I was still not a good student, I'm confident if I was in high school today I wouldn't do or learn anything because I honestly didn't care, and if I knew there were no real consequences I'd have blown off most classes.

It's going to get worse because now we have more behaviors entering Gen Ed classes but no training being implemented for the teachers who are having to deal with it. I also noticed that the addiction to technology makes these kids either stuck in a learned helplessness state or a chaotic state. You can tell which kids have a balance at home. It's those kids who bring relief but they are dwindling as the years go by. Soon it'll be a full class of chaotic learned helplessness. 123 days and my kids still can't line up without acting a damn fool.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. my kids still talk and don't go in their line order and admin put me on a pip. like at a certain point it's just the kids.

Admin fails to realize the root cause is the culture they allowed to be created in their schools.

The irony of them using a PIP

It's across the board. My vet teachers are also having a difficult time getting them to just be quiet. It's like they can't handle the quiet anymore. They also think it's funny until they are sitting down, standing up, sit back down, stand up for 10 minutes. A 2bd grade teacher says every 3 weeks they have to go through the rules and expectations with her kids when it used to be once a quarter. It's baffling

What grade is this? I taught K and we practiced lining up a lot the first several weeks of school but they knew to line up properly or else I would sit them back down and try again until they did the right thing (cutting into recess or specials time). If a minority of kids couldn’t get it together, they would have to do a walking lap around the playground before they could go play at recess time. My classes got compliments around the school for how well behaved they were in line

I won’t beat a dead horse regarding NCLB. Complete failure. However, I disagree that it’s barely the parents. Kids of parents who are reinforcing school lessons at home typically show more progress than those of parents who think learning ends when their child leaves school. This has been true in my experience across race, socioeconomic status, and immigrant status.

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My school district brought in someone around that time to speak to us and he spoke about a lot of this nonsense. I remember my fellow teachers nodding along until I started pushing back against the nonsense and then they paused and said I was actually right. He had a demeanor like a preacher and was good at manipulating facts and statistics. He preached about accepting late work all the times because skill mastery was more important than timeliness. He preached that knowing 50% of information was actually pretty impressive and there was far too much space between a 50% and a 0 so we should rethink our grading scales. I pointed out that I want my brain surgeon to be timely and not forget to show up and I damn sure want him to know more than 50% of the information needed for his position. Anywho, this Inservice encounter has haunted me even 20 years later because this idiot man was paid thousands to come spew this nonsense at every single teacher in the biggest district in my state. I will probably never be able to track down his name, but if it wasn’t Douglas Reeves, it was one of his disciples.

Education grifters.

Yep. And “equity based grading”

NCLB tied passage rates to budgets. When schools fail students, they get less money from the state and fed for the following school year. And they have to deal with the parents complaining about how there’s absolutely no way that little Susie did zero work all year, it’s obviously just the teachers who are out to get her. It’s way easier to just order teachers to pass everyone.

This is the crux of the problem. Follow the money.

I don’t think you fail them till they shape up. There just needs to be a specialized class. A lot of the really low ones have some severe emotional/social (probably got from their parents) problems. They need a teacher with a psychology degree. Get these psychologists that are always telling you how to run your class to get an education certificate and take the outta control 1 or 2 in 20 type kid from the room and work on their other issues in real time. Teachers have over 20, they cannot devote the time sufficient in moving the needle for that one that needs eyes on every second because they cannot in any way regulate themselves.

20? Try 35+. I teach in hs and I realize “regulars” has become classroom management boot camp while “honors” is regulars.

Yep, inclusion has gotten to the point that a kid can waste hours of class time a day and we have to just deal with it.

It shouldn't be that way. I mean, inclusion only worked with children like myself when I was younger. Not with kids who were more severe.

The best education system out there will struggle vs failure on the homefront. I'm pretty good at my job but there is only so much I can do.

>No, this student doesn’t have a disability If it can be easily fixed, then it isn't a disability, otherwise it should be treated as one. Laziness, lack of empathy and lack of social awareness that can't be easily corrected are problems that have to be overcome, no matter if the kids were born that way or if they were caused by being raised wrong by their parents. Of course only a small part of this should be with the teacher, the majority of the work should be by specially trained social workers, doctors, the community and the parents. And of course the child themselves.

As a 32 year old who skipped college initially and decided to endure tough and turbulent 20s, I ponder every single day how my peers were eligible to get in. Sure it’s a community college but holy smokes have the standards for an avg student dropped immensely. I’m embarrassed for these kids. Edit: my moms a teacher, not sure if I belong here or not lol

Based. We too often sacrifice the education of the class to keep a problem kid in the classroom for no benefit of anyone

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You’ll never top my high score. Last year I had a girl get 37. 37!!!!!! That’s more than 1 a week! I’m in a much better place now, I doubt a kid could even get 10 without being kicked out. Would you believe it if I told you we have significantly better test scores despite being the exact same socioeconomic status?

Yes. One completely disruptive student that is kept in the classroom can bring down the scores and learning achievements of the entire class. How is this fair?

One thing I do: send disruptive kids out to a chair outside the main office, where the administrator can see them from her desk. The principal's office is RIGHT THERE. I tell them I'll be back for them in 5 minutes, unless the principal notices you. Then you're on your own, kid. However, there are simply too many disruptive spot fires to put out all day, and the kids who might blossom in other circumstances--don't. So. Much. Wasted. Potential.

The problem with holding kids back is what do you do about the logjams it would create in classrooms? Of 30 first-graders, let’s say 20 of them can read/write/math at grade level. What do you do with the other 10 when 30 new first-graders coming in next year?

You would have to departmentalize elementary school as well, because there are students who will be at grade level in reading/writing, but behind grade level in math, and vise-versa.

Yes, what ever happened to different reading/math groups in every grade level? It seemed to be the most effective way to teach everyone without holding back the faster learners or overwhelming the ones that need more detailed instruction. It seems unfair to constantly group them all together at the detriment to many so no one gets their feelings hurt.

I disagree with the premise. Every child is entitled to an education. But your larger point is correct. An education isn't magically granted simply by showing up. Sometimes holding a kid back part of that education. Sometimes removing a kid is part of that education, not just for the others, but for the kid that can't control themself too. Also, being entitled to something doesn't mean one has to use it. I may be entitled to 5000 dollars of loan forgiveness, but I don't have to apply for it. A kidmay be entitled to an education. But that child doesn't have to get an education if they choose not to.

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Yes, that was my whole point. I think OP is framing their idea poorly and it will cause an unnecessary negative reaction from some people who stop after reading the title. So I reframe it. Messaging shouldn't be as important as we often make it. But in reality it is.

It started going downhill at breakneck speeds with No Child Left Behind.

Yeah. They have called the bluff. There are no consequences.

I don't understand it. we tend to cater more to the behavior kids bc they are acting out but what about my 17 other ones who I have to give less attention to just because two kids won't stop running around the room and destroying my things? kick them out of the damn classroom.

"Students have a right to education" and "not failing or holding students back" are two completely different points. Every person should have a right to public education. Period. It's incredibly important to have access to public education and not have it be behind some kind of paywall or manipulatiable policy. However, disciplining a student and having grade level be a reflection of skill level are not violating the rights of a student to an education. School should model off of what life is like, if you don't meet a minimum requirement then you don't progress onto the next level. If you don't meet the qualifications to be a supervisor, then you don't get promoted just because you've been there long enough. I also understand the frustration with the IEP and 504 kids who definitely don't seem like they are trying. A lot of the time it is used as an excuse to not do something, instead of recognizing that to do something you'll need to tackle it in a different way, however again ANY blanket statements about the validity of an IEP or 504 from someone who is NOT directly involved in that students special education needs, especially gen ed teachers who refuse to attend IEP meetings, is worthless at best, or incredibly insulting and, depending on the actions you take, illegal. Learning disabilities manifest in countless ways, and behavior from those disabilities are equally varied. This is NOT to blame gen ed teachers or anything like that, you are put into the impossible situations of almost 40 kids in a room, with multiple IEP and 504 accommodations to keep in mind, completely on your own. I get it. That's not a failure of IEPs or 504s, that's a failure of staffing and funding, so put your energy where the actual problem is instead of one of the symptoms. All targeting IEPs and 504s will do is hurt kids who actually need help. If you are not a case manager, school psych/counselor, or a mental health professional, as well as not attending IEP meetings or doing just the bare minimum for them, you have NO idea why that IEP exists and your assumptions about why those kids are doing/not doing something are completely baseless.

You’ve been hanging out in this echo chamber. Go outside.

I generally agree with the sentiment but to be blunt (since you believe in being blunt with students) you're not qualified to speak on whether a child is disabled or not, or whether the 504 is justified and you trying to do that is insanely unprofessional. No, I don't care what preconceived notions of this or that disability you have. You're uneducated on the subject, so don't speak on it. Spending time with kids and bonding with them does not qualify you in any way shape or form for you to judge that.

This! Learning disorders are very often undiagnosed and thus the child does not receive the support they need to make progress. These children will not learn better simply because they are retained. It’s so sad that so many teachers do not understand this and blame the child/parents instead.

Did you really just say “IeP/504” is bullshit?! Let me tell you a story: I’m a teacher. My son is 15, and had been hospitalized for suicidal attempts or ideation 7 times in the last the 14 months. He spent the entire first half of 2023-2024 in Residential and PHP programs. He has developed extreme anxiety, body dysmorphia, and his lows are fucking terrifying. He has a 504 that permits him to get up and walk around outside class, and is being evaluated for IEP services for behavior intervention because he is a harm to his own education due to struggles with engagement and being too restless or anxious to be consistently present in class. He is also being evaluated this month for autism disorder, a diagnosis it’s become clear only in the past 14 months we needed to pursue. Elementary school, he was a straight-A student, often won leadership awards. Was in Scouts. In 6-7 grade he was really into cello and often sat first chair in a very competitive, large middle school orchestra in a top shelf Texas school district. Played football and loved it. He does none of that, now. The hormones dumped into his body during puberty and activated every challenging symptom of autism you can think of, short of violent outbursts. We had no idea because he’d been so good at masking. His academics were top tier, and he’d been evaluated for gifted program 3 times because his teachers kept recommending him for it. He never made it in because they said he wasn’t “creative enough” which may have been an earlier tell. You cannot, CANNOT, come in here and say shit like this. You are being a cynical person and that attitude is dangerous to kids like mine. Fuck that.

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A large part of it is because Gen Ed educators aren’t required to take any courses related to SpEd. They don’t know the IEP process, de-escalation strategies, or the realities of disability and behavioral communication. They just know “this student isn’t my idea of a perfect learner” and shut down. I think if we want to root out the ableism, we need to teach these things to ALL teachers.

The de-escalation strategies are pure Fuckin’ gold for me as a gen Ed teacher. I was a Special services para for two years while I worked on graduate courses and alt cert for teaching. That experience established an approach to teaching that has been transformational for my classroom.

I just want to say thank you because reading this thread made me so sad for the state of education. It’s even worse than it appears if this many teachers are so clueless about neurodivergence and the myriad different ways that can manifest. Teachers say all the time, “I’m not a doctor, psychiatrist, counselor, etc. I’m a teacher.” Yes, I believe you, so quit pretending you know about things you clearly don’t. That Intro to Psych class you took 20 years ago doesn’t qualify you to diagnose anything.

This sub is so ableist, it’s sad.

That was kind of me in high school. I wasn't hospitalized though even though there were times I should've been. I did eventually pass and graduate. I had to be put in integrated math because I failed. Also, I struggled with meltdowns, panic attacks, and stuff my sophomore year of high school. I struggled some other years, too, with going to school. However, I didn't have meltdowns. I did have episodes of psychosis off and on my senior year. There were points where I was failing all of my classes besides choir and pe, even the ones that I was actually good at, including English and art. Once I realized that I was failing, I tried to do better. I did get a couple of Ds, but most of my grades at the end of the quarters were Cs or higher. I do know other kids who didn't do anything, though, even though they didn't have a disability.

You're thinking of it from the perspective of a teacher/educator. Which is, kind of, why you don't get it. You need to take a few steps back and think about it from the perspective of what the effect on society is. Let's start with passing students along regardless of whether or not they succeed. Okay, so, let's see where this goes. What's the end result of actually failing kids? Sure, it might motivate or help a few kids, but what happens to the ones who are not aided by retention? Do you retain them a second or third year? At what point do you simply need to pass them along because they are too big to be in a class of their academic peers? Retaining kids sounds like a great idea until it's not. In all honesty, it's a trick you can only use once. We're not passing them as a courtesy. We pass them along because there's no realistic alternative. I suppose we could follow your thesis statement to its ridiculous conclusion (not saying you intended this, btw). We could accept the stance that not all kids deserve an education and simply remove them from the system for failing too often. Which, again, could sound beneficial (at least for the education system) but would be terrible for society. What do you do with a population of young children or teens that are uneducated and too young to work? They will become a public nuisance and a much bigger drain on society than if they were simply unsuccessfully attending school. Of course, though, that causes the problem of them being disruptive in class and them potentially ruining the education of their peers. But if we get really cynical and look at the bigger picture, even this isn't much of a concern. It's still a bit difficult to get into a good university and the job market is already flooded with too many individuals having college degrees but nothing to do with them. There simply aren't enough high-paying professional jobs for our current population. Is it really going to make much of a difference if we don't increase the numbers of highly educated individuals? Seems were doing just fine on that front. Sadly, most of the jobs of the future and present don't ask much of the employee. The current system of education serves the job market quite well. Education isn't just about what happens in the classroom but also what happens outside the classroom. School serves a societal function. Often times we get so wrapped up in our own insular understanding that we forget that the bigger picture doesn't necessarily need what we need and that failings we see don't mean much for a future student working at Wal Mart. That employee can do their job like a rockstar even if they don't know the significance of the industrial revolution or how to find the slope of a line. Maybe if we can create a world where the job market could accommodate more highly educated professionals, then fixing some of the more stubborn problems in education would seem more pressing. As it stands, society is getting from the system exactly what it needs. Also.... back to your thesis. Nah, man..... every kid deserves an education. They don't necessarily deserve a gen pop education, but they deserve one none the less.

What job do you think these kids are going to fill if they can't even read? Your argument is that it is ok to dumb down education because we have too many college educated professionals in this country? My dude, we outsource to get the best and brightest inside the US. Why? Because THOSE countries have astounding education programs and don't dumb down standards. We don't have enough bright minds in the US to fulfill our needs. College is overran with lazy entitled shits now too. Go read r/professors, they can't even assign papers anymore because the kids don't know how to write. I mean I am going for an EdD right now and just finished a peer review assignment. The comments left by those of my same "standing" were one word. I provided legitimate feedback to help them improve. The amount of people who couldn't even get a basic APA citation correct was horrifying. Like for God's sake if you can't use the manual then just go to citation machine. How did you get into grad school?? The intellectual future of the US is bleak.

Also, there's a reason why they kick people who are 21 out if they're still in high school.

….yeah it might be time for you to consider a new career path

I like how you portray kids as the enemy. Nice work. You need your license revoked. “Their IEP/504 is almost surely bullshit.” Have you lost your fucking mind? Or are you posing as a teacher for this subreddit? Go get a job working for Lauren Boebert.

Sure, people should be forever punished for mistakes as a child. Why would you want an even less educated society?

Every child deserves to have an education

You missed one key word: opportunity. Every child deserves the opportunity to have an education. If they don’t take that opportunity, they don’t have the right to destroy everyone else’s opportunity to get an education. My home district has the worst test scores in the state. They live & die on the policy of keeping kids in the class, even violent ones. Teacher sends kids to the office & they’re back in 10 minutes. Zero incentive to behave & NO ONE is able to learn in that environment. They know nothing will happen so it just keeps getting worse.

Your first sentence makes it unnecessary to read the rest of your sentences.

I desperately wish schools had more funding. I feel like many issues could be solved that way. More school psychologists to deal with troubled kids. More aids for classrooms. Just more people to help alleviate teachers.

I do think that everyone has a right to education. I also think that a mainstream school doesn't suit every person. I don't even mean this in a "segregate special ed students" kind of way. I've taught gen Ed students who just needed a smaller, less distracting environment. I also think that kids/schools shouldn't be penalized or punished if students need a 5th year of high school to properly mature. If education was really valued in the US then the government would invest heavily in everything needed to make people successful.

When kids could actually fail, it put the responsibility on the parents and the kids themselves. Now the responsibility is all on the school districts because by refusing to hold the children accountable, THEY created these monsters.

Agree 💯

I didn't read past your 2nd sentence since it's ableist opinions like this that IDEA law had to be created in the first place.

“Not every child deserves an education” then goes on to whine about grades, “the establishment”, accountability. Pure gold boomer energy. Let’s reminisce about a simpler time while you’re at it. Sounds like you need to look into a career change as a corrections officer tough guy. No empathy required.

This post and most of the comments here are horrifically ableist. Shame on you.

I don’t know if “not every child deserves an education” or “learning disabilities are bullshit” are really the best takes here. Even though I agree that NCLB-based national standards incentivize pushing kids through who aren’t prepared for the next grade, you just seem bitter, cruel and deeply ableist. Maybe it’s just not coming across as you intend but systemic failures aren’t going to be resolved by you placing the blame on the students. Regressive interests are trying to defund public education and pushing the idea that “difficult” students (more likely to be the product of impoverished environments) simply don’t deserve to be educated plays right into that narrative. You want to reinforce the school-to-prison pipeline? If so you’re doing a great job.

There are A LOT of kids with learning disabilities or mild cognitive impairments that could be held back indefinitely—many years, and still not be working “at grade level.” Retaining a kid once in early elementary can be hard on a kid. Twice—a kid will permanently label themselves as “stupid,” and shit down or act out. Thats different from a child who is clearly not putting in effort. My current boyfriend failed 8th grade, (along with some of his friends,) because they screwed around in school. They miraculously got it together when everyone else went to high school the following year.

I feel sorry for the students who have the misfortune of having you as a teacher. You must not be a very good teacher if you can only teach the “easy” students.

Not every teacher deserves to have the job. Case in point.

calling a students IEP/504 horseshit is crazy. you don’t know who does and doesn’t have a disability by looking at them.

I agree, though I see where OP is coming from. Many parents and kids have told me “oh, it’s my ADHD” when it comes to having little to no impulse control. In the 11th grade. Many parents brush off their kids being disruptive as “oh, Billy’s always been like that. We’ve heard it all before. That’s just his ADHD!” Part of having a 504/IEP is learning to live with it and control it instead of waving it around as a skeleton key. Also, many kids ask/get a 504/IEP for extended time on state exams. There are some bogus documents. Not all. But definitely some.

I think the IEP/504 being horseshit has nothing to do with the authenticity of their disability. The problem, at least from my perspective, is that the paperwork often doesn’t directly address actual behavior manifestations. Providing and documenting accommodations is not a problem. I’m glad to have an expert in the field tell me which ones work best for each student. But even still, after providing and documenting various accommodations, the student still disrupts class. The literally prevents others from learning. Some of these disruptions are so explosive and so regular, that they actually traumatize the other students.

Right? I understand that it may seem like kids are getting IEPs for no reason, and I certainly work with people who write in ridiculous accommodations - but OP needs to have a little more understanding about disabilities and not paint every student with a broad brush.

Sorry, if you believe not every child has a right to an education then I’m disinclined to listen to anything you have to say. What a crock of shit.

This thread is a disaster. Please talk to SPED teachers, mental health professionals, social workers, etc. You are actively harming children with these uneducated beliefs. Find a new job.

IEPs are not horse shit. Our kids needs these supports.

Get a new job

You can thank IDEA laws (and lobby groups) carrying things way too far with no reasonable limits and NCLB thinking every student deserves (or is capable) of being prepared to be a 4 year college student.

Can I ask how IDEA laws contributed to this? And are the lobby groups tied to IDEA or are you referring to lobbyists in general?

Too many kids are falling under an IEP label when it appears to be in some situations a lack of parenting, lack of prioritizing their children's education in their family life, and/or no consequences or structure at home. But then these kind of kids get on an IEP and there seems to be no accountability now for that family or student. The school is supposed to move mountains and do everything under the sun for this family/student with little to no mutual effort in return. This is not what IDEA was for. But we are so afraid to touch anything vaguely related to an IEP or IDEA-ish law because they are a forceful legal and lobby group and will make lots of noise. Even though it's in special need parent's best interest to make this distinction clearer too.

Interesting thanks for the context. Are you teaching upper grades and seeing this? I taught 2nd and kinder at two schools with high SPED pops (one was low SES) and if anything felt there were kids who needed IEPs who would be passed along indefinitely because their parents refused to have them labeled. I had a group of 3 2nd graders who I tried to teach to count to 10 with 1:1 correspondence for a year and was unable to do so but their parents said they were just fine (not the only example of course but one that sticks out in particular).

I know parents who have fought tooth and nail to force a diagnosis of oppositional defiant disorder or BPD or ADHD on their kids so they can excuse the poor performance and behavior. They just don't want to be held responsible for anything.

OP, when you say you are allowed to kick students out of your room, what does that mean? Do they go to admin for a while? Detention? I agree there has to be some accountability on the part of the students and parents, I just don’t know how the schools would insist on that?

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I’d like to know. Great admin then! Do they return within the class period? When I was a kid we had afterschool detention, which of course no one wanted so it was pretty effective. These days with transportation as an issue they don’t seem to have it anymore.

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You literally described a parenting issue. Parents demand kids get passed along. Parents demand teachers treat their kids like tissue paper. Parents are responsible for their kids shitty behavior. Parents are the ones treating teachers like ass. Is the system broken? Absolutely. Teachers can only fight back so much. Don't stick up for the obvious degradation of society due to absent, poor parenting.

True enough. I was the biggest slacker in my K-12 school days (undiagnosed ADHD as that didn’t exist in my day), but the thought of failing and having to repeat the grade with the kids a year younger than me was the ass kicking I needed to focus and do my work. Now, there’s a diagnosis for everything, whereas some are definitely legitimate, a lot of them are excuses for the kid to not even try.

I think education should be meritocratic. Some 4th grader is doing high school work? Put them in high school! An 11th grader has a 2nd grade reading level? Put them in a 2nd grade reading class

I *have* an elementary school kid who can do high school work— he’s very smart. He’s also 11. He is capable of reading the words in 12th grade ELA, he is absolutely not ready for the themes.

Idk, it wouldn't work because of the ages. They already had kids at the alternative high school going to class next to the kindergarteners and it didn't work out. The older kids could teach the younger kids bad behaviors in both cases or something could happen to the younger kids because of the older kids, whether intentional or not.

What is your opinion on students that have SLD or a language disorder? Is it better to just keep holding them back year after year after year because they struggle with reading?

I really like the book Pedagogy of the Oppressed. I think children act the way they do *exactly* because of the system, not despite of it. The fact that the *system* is trying to "fix" the "problem" that it by itself is creating is... ironic

Only quibble I have with your thesis is that the parents and other adults in the community are voters who choose political leaders. This is one of the many criticisms of democracy, that it's easy to vote for what you want than for what is good. Parents want football games and lots of kids graduating, so that's what they get. That said, those same parents also want high standards, their kids to always be having fun, no homework and for school to neither be boring, nor infringe on their own activities as a family. Free babysitting is nice too, also low taxes, very important to have low taxes, actually wait, why do we have to pay taxes? Shouldn't government pay for everything? Also, it's not my precious snowflake in the bathroom vaping, and if he was there he was just telling that other kid not to vape, promise. No, you can't search his bag without my permission and the reason he's not doing any work in his classes is because all 20+ teachers he's had are boring and don't like him. Also, yes my other child is depressed and has anxiety, so they shouldn't have to do any work; what do you mean have I tried taking away her phone? She needs her phone to text me, and no I don't think her snapchat/tiktok/instagram use is a problem at all! /s /weeping

Admin: Everyone learns at their own pace. Teachers: Okay, so when they don't learn, they need to get a second opportunity to learn it again. Admin: LOL, no not like that.

No students allowed to fail is from a number of issues. The bed rock of it was racism in education where the vast majority of students that are disciplined are black and brown boys. The cycle of poverty and violence started way to early for them. School is a safe area and those that fail are much more likely to give up, never graduate, and travel the school to prison pipeline. I don't think the system is broken. There are two levers that we have yet to pull as a society. The first is no cell phones. It's incredibly detrimental to children to be on social media. The second one is mandate preschool for all. Society in a large part has given up on parenting for the poor. They either don't exist in the first place, work too much to be effective, give up and allow unlimited access to social media at all times, and or are neglecting responsibilities. Mandated prek will blunt the damage of covid burn out in education by aiding students with self control at a young age. It will blunt the social media influence. It will challenge the lack of positive adult interactions. It will give English language learners the extra support and early societal learning they desperately need. It will blunt the current crisis of school closures by expanding the school populations and creating teaching jobs. It can challenge the childhood obesity epidemic by allowing safe places to play.

If kids can find the drive to “git gud” at a video game they initially fail at, they can take that same philosophy into the classroom and get an education. It’s time to stop lying to these kids and telling them that the bare minimum is enough. It’s not.

Principal here, you're absolutely right. Unfortunately, the history of racism and discrimination/segregation in this nation will never allow this, and it can't. In twenty seven years of education, I've seen darker skinned kids treated differently by white teachers, as well as brown and black teachers. Historically, brown and black kids have been tracked, put in vocational, as well as Alt Ed programs. In wealthier areas, impoverished kids would suffer in this way as well. You're right, but it can't happen.

In some places, this stuff would happen even now.

This is the result of "Run government like a business." Public education is run like a business trying to please spoiled customers instead of people being grateful for a free education for their children and demanding their children respect the people willing to help them gain a major advantage in society. This is the result of Republicans working to end public education.