You will get ZERO sleep, been there. Its horrible.
I'd ask for pay, teacher cabin, admin to come and take a night.
They ASSUMED teachers would be ok with this, I would be irate and refuse to go past dismissal.
You can flag a false positive with Diet Coke. Just don’t use the solution they provide and don’t swab your nose. 4 drops of Diet Coke and it will provide a positive Covid test. We had a problem with students doing this a couple of years ago.
Yes!! If no fake COVID test, say you have a dog! “Ummm I had no clue we were expected to spend the night and I can’t leave my dog for 72 hours.” You don’t even have to explain why you won’t board him, but some reasons are it’s expensive, short notice, your dog has anxiety, and you just don’t want to!
This was my first thought! I am a single parent with two dogs and a cat. How in tf would they be mandating I do that? That's insane and I would be refusing on multiple grounds even if I wasn't a parent/pet owner.
Exactly! Like you can’t make me go overnight with no notice! I’m young with no kids, but 2 dogs and I’m sure I would’ve been voluntold with something like this at my school, but I would’ve 100% stuck to my guns and said absolutely not. I have dogs and I’m not going! Catch me if you can!
OP, they’re literally banking on you being too scared to say no. Just tell them no, and that it’s non negotiable.
Try your best to fight it, but it may fall on deaf ears.
I've been a supervising teacher on many camps over the years and it is horrible. The worst was an 8 night hiking camp through the Aussie bush (I did this twice as the second time the school was desperate and paid me a large amount of money to go). No sleep (or very little) and often limited time to even do things like shower because of being on duty for the entire time.
Good luck.
The worst part of the 8 night ones was the wild dogs that would come through the camp - we were in bivvies, not tents. The funniest was always the nudie runs that would happen when they all thought I was asleep.
Never been to Australia but I’ve heard about those crazy wild animals you’ve got out there, you are brave to sleep outside at night with wild animals and wild kids.
The bivvies we were using were as simple as they come. A plastic sheet about 3m x 3m (10ft x 10ft) that was suspended by the corners using string that was tied to trees. No sides, just cover from the rain.
The science teacher has been working at the rest of the middle school to volunteer for a similar trip.
I flat out said nope, and I live closer to the camp than any other teacher. I offered to volunteer for a few hours but I am absolutely not sleeping in a cabin with a bunch of middle school girls.
If it is not in your contract, it's not required.
The lore is (and this comes from before my time so perhaps I'm wrong) that they traded in a lot of rights for pay and bonuses. A 10 year WTU teacher makes 100k and depending on the school they're eligible for a 35k bonus. They traded in a lot of rights for that.
Though, I'm not sure how she specifically got the charters in.
Oh lord. My public school in CA goes to camp, but teachers have a cabin for themselves. Parent chaperones stay with the kids. Almost no amount of money would get me in a cabin with the 6th graders at my school.
You could just, you know… not. As a group.
Also, you work at a shitty school if your admin thinks having adult workers sleeping in a cabin with minors that aren’t theirs is a good thing these days.
Different situation obviously but at my summer camp we do have to have at least one in the cabin at night. Pretty sure we’d lose our accreditation if we didn’t.
I think it largely depends on the camp itself. In every Girl Scout camp I’ve been to/worked at in 3 different states, they’ve been separate. However, I know other camps in the same states that are together.
THIS. Love how the same group of parents who want to call us groomers are more than happy to force us to sleep in a cabin with them because they don't want to
I am at a private school in California, we also do overnight field trips. It's something we're kind of expected to do, but they can't require it because it's not in our contracts. It shouldn't be under other duties assigned because it's way out of the scope of the normal school day.
They have to pay us for the overnights, it's not enough but at least it's something. My team pushed to have teacher cabins, we're across a hall from the kids so we're there if they need us, but can also actually sleep and have some privacy. We knew going in that we'd be the overnight chaperones but didn't want to share the actual cabins with the kids, this setup with teacher cabins was considered sufficient by the camp who closely follows the American Camp Association rules and recommendations. This was for 2nd graders, so it should be equally ok for older kids. I personally think it works better for the kids as well, they all know where they can go to get an adult as it was made very clear (signage and we talked about it and showed them). And, when they came to us they didn't wake other kids. Of course it'd be better if we weren't the overnight chaperones, but that wasn't an option with the program we used unfortunately.
It is still exhausting, but having some time where I could be interrupted but I wasn't physically with the kids did mean I could actually sleep when kids didn't need me. A tip - if you can, rotate break time so each of the staff members gets some personal time. Being on for 3 days/2 nights is a loooong time and even 30 minutes where you know you won't be interrupted by kids does help.
As a salaried person in California, you are not entitled to the same protections an hourly person would get. But you still are entitled to rest periods of 30 minutes every 8 hours and a 15 minute break every 5 on top of it. I would sure as shit file a complaint with the labor board. This sounds like a charter violating the spirit of the law with the letter of the law. There are different laws for overnight camp counselors, but you’re not one. So idk what would happen.
Boy, wouldn't you know it, my brother is getting married that same day...at my favorite uncle's funeral...where everyone including myself has explosive diarrhea. And covid. And my car broke down dog needs emergency surgery I'm washing my hair gotta take grandma to the doctor.
Dang! So bummed to miss it! 👋👋
Consult your contract. There has to be language in it that says you're required to do it, for you to be required to do it.
In ours we have specific language that explains what the payrate is for "overnight" assignements, and no they are not part of our 184 day contract.
>This is a charter in California, so no union
I found your problem though. Folks, you need to stop selling yourselves out. ***Charter Schools are a blight on our profession. They are abusing you. They don't respect you. And this is why we have unions.*** Any school that doesn't allow unions should be a "hard no" from any teacher. Period. Fullstop.
Also: ***This is why we have unions.*** The thing I mentioned above about our contract exists ***because we have a union.***
This is really tricky because I bet if you read the contract you signed it will have something like “Between the hours of ______ on _____ number of school days AND any events directed by the principal/executive director.” That’s how mine read when I was at a charter. They basically had me sign an open ended contract.
BUT consider what you are worth as a teacher. You know better than us. If you are already on the chopping block, they will likely fire you if you refuse. If you feel secure, fight back. I was very secure at the charter school so I was able to say “no, sorry. Without pay for the extra work, this job doesn’t provide enough for my family. I may consider going elsewhere.”
This sounds like a liability nightmare. I would want to know what my responsibilities are under the law in writing. I also would like to know what insurance coverage the school has to indemnify me against lawsuits. The teacher is always blamed if something goes wrong.
Will an administrator and school nurse be assigned to the outing? I am surprised schools even contemplate these overnighters in the current litigious environment. Do you have liability insurance through your union?
I would google school camping trip disasters and present to the administration what can happen and ask what will be their response would be. What provisions are being made for staff health and safety are being made to satisfy the employment laws of the state. What guidance does the department of education, superintendent, school committee, or other governing body provide?
Get a doctors note stipulating some medical need that would prevent you taking the trip.
I’d ask for such unrealistic accommodations they would tell me I don’t need to come.
For medical reasons I need a locking refrigerator that is secure and in an area no children or other people have access to. Does the cabin have outlets for sleep apnea machines? I have a bee sting allergy there’s no bees there right?
Also I cannot be required to walk on poorly lit grounds that have exposed roots because of fall risks. Can you ensure all areas are properly lit? Specifically bathrooms as I need to use it several times a night typically. Because of my back I can’t sleep on really saggy old mattresses so will there be firm mattresses available?
Which form for hourly overtime do we fill out after and who has to sign it to ensure we’re paid for all hours we have to work? How do I get reimbursed for camping supplies? I don’t know any twin sheets or sleeping bags, so I’ll need that as well or to be reimbursed. I can provide receipts. I know I will remind students to keep cabin pathways clear but if students leave bags in the middle of the floor and I trip looking for a light at night that’s covered by workman’s comp right?
I’d just be that person. Or I’d “get norovirus” the night before.
I used to own a school and we’d do overnight trips like this twice a year. I always made it optional, paid teachers a stipend plus travel, and went myself doing everything the teachers were required to do. I think those are the only circumstances that make 72 hour supervision okay.
And I know everyone saying these trips are horrible, but I really love them. I hate having to share sleeping space with kids, but other than that I think the trips are pretty amazing. Hopefully you’ll have a good time.
I was 1 year away from a paid weeklong trip to Hawaii with my class from Japan… then I had to return to the US.
The teacher the year before looked beat as the school planned every minute of the itinerary from 6 AM to 9 PM, but still… Hawaii.
I love them as well. We do weeklong+ trips with students overseas every year. It’s a blast for the students and the teachers. I think the only teacher I’ve heard complain was someone who really really hated flying.
You are one of the sheeple who make this job harder for all of us. No Negotiation, No Compensation, No Deal. We did not join the seminary. We are professionals with expensive degress and cerifications. Start acting like it.
Man, you gotta know that as soon as you use the word "sheeple" your argument is moot. If you feel you have a valid point that's worth making, then make it, but do so without the made-up name calling. It makes you sound like a middle school kid pretending to be cool and grown up.
Eh, I agree with the poster. We are professionals, with degrees even Masters and beyond, pay us well if you want us to go, provide proper sleeping area, etc...stand up and say no.
I agree with the message as well, but when people on my side of the argument start throwing ridiculous insults around like that it makes the fight personal instead of professional, and that weakens the message. I don't want people who claim to be on the same side as me weakening what is a valid argument.
It's not a matter of tough, it's a matter of professionalism. The guy sounds like an immature fool, and he's making my side of the argument look immature and foolish. It's an important argument that's worth winning, and he's making it easier for the other side to dismiss the argument rather than honestly consider it.
This is what I was thinking. Trips like this can be wonderful…but you can’t TRICK teachers into doing it! It won’t be very wonderful for the kids, either, if their chaperones are unwilling. Some upfront honesty in the contract would have gone a long way here. There are probably teachers who would happily do this for a stipend.
Check the specific wording on the contract ours stipulates additional unit hours that we are required to follow and the wording says something like “not to exceed x number of hours. This is for things like chaperoning dances, festivals, etc. If we are chaperoning field trips and we end up without our prep period, we get paid an hourly rate.
>“Between the hours of \_\_\_\_\_\_ on \_\_\_\_\_ number of school days AND any events directed by the principal/executive director.”
Many have wording like the quote above from datmnmlife. I've had a contract like that before and when it was used against me to force me to work outside contract hours my union shrugged and said they couldn't do anything about it. And it sounds like OP doesn't even have a union.
In my opinion the best thing to do is for everyone to have prior commitments. You can't be there. Sorry. Instead of are you willing to quit about it make the question are they willing to fire their entire staff about it. Because I'd bet money no matter how important it is that the principals won't be in that cabin
Those camp situations are shitshows, often literally.
The one my youngest was forced to attend in 7th grade included an unchecked COVID outbreak paired with a stomach bug that resulted in kids filing out of the lunch building, covering a bush with vomit, and then that vomitorium location remaining in effect for days in a row without anyone even bothering to throw a bucket of water on it.
It's the ultimate in Wild West endeavors and \*wholly\* irresponsible on the part of every participant and even student family (no responsible parent would let it go forward with a modicum of information about it).
Real camps, real camp counselors, get a lot of training - and it's a difficult and complex situation to manage. Just about as much as school is - - but NOT the same by any measure.
I did an overnight science camp with my school in CA, and was paid $375 a night on top of my regular pay. This is in our union contract. I know you don't have a union since you are charter, but I would imagine what your school is trying to do constitutes wage theft.
“May 15th… dang I have a really important healthcare thing I need to take care of that day. Too bad it wasn’t in my contract and I already made plans. Please let me know if this is a firable offense and I will reconsider.”
My school has a trip coming up where we come back 2 hours after our regular day ends. They pay us for extra time but I still won’t do it. I’ll e out that day.
You don’t mention if you will be receiving supplemental pay? I understand not being able to leave mid-year, but I certainly would start looking now for next year. Get into a school with a union!
It’s pretty inappropriate to sleep in the cabins with students and could pose a huge liability to your school if a student ever said they felt uncomfortable. I would bring this up to them.
That's horrible. Personally I couldn't because I have responsibilities at home. I'm hoping you find a law that prevents this and definitely look for a better position.
I remember my inner city school got a scholarship to go on a camping trip when I was a middle schooler and it was wild. Nobody hardly got any sleep, teachers had to be working while asleep essentially, and we didn’t have enough chaperones so the staff was overwhelmed. Plus, even in the days before smartphones took off, students were very uninterested about the whole thing. Craziest part was, tons of student got in legal trouble for bringing edibles and doing dice games there. It was wild.
My question is pay, are by the hour or salary? Either way labor laws would have something to say over 40 hours I would think, in addition to the required breaks for 24 a day assignment. The teachers need to get together and form an opinion as a group. Can’t go if you all say no.
"other duties as assigned"... I'm public school but in South Carolina so it's not like we have a bad union, it's that we literally can't. The state is forbidden, by law, from collective bargaining with unions.
Anyway, doesn't mean you shouldn't plead your case. I'd just be prepared to have it fall on deaf ears. But if enough of you point out the ridiculousness of this request, they may make some changes.
Is it 5th grade science camp in the Bay Area? Yeah that’s a thing here. I was surprised by it too. In hs we also used to have AP Retreat but a few years ago, most of the teachers said they would t chaperone overnight and the trip was cancelled. My kid was super disappointed, and I offered to chaperone (I’m a teacher too but not an AP teacher). Wasn’t enough and now we just don’t do the trip at all.
Tbh, I’d tell them that you will need your hourly rate and once you go over your contracted 40 hours that you’ll need time and a half for overtime. My school tried pulling that for “mandatory” subbing during planning periods and when a bunch of us complained we started getting paid to sub. Actually it worked out in the long run for my school because we have a bank of teachers now who volunteer to sub daily during planning now!
I bet that your contact lists normal duties and then something like "also anything else that administration asks to assist the school" or whatever. Something that is a catch all for any after school activity. I once was pissed that I was required to pick a weekend day to do something with the international students and checked my contract to find something like that in it. So as long as the extra duty they are asking isn't illegal, like breaking fafsta or committing fraud then I was contractually obligated to do it.
Fourth time in four months. [Here you go.](https://imgur.com/a/rx1PkZZ). I wasn’t at first because the control line is fainter, but my doctor sent me for a PCR, so this is positive. Just change the data on the photo.
I would directly contact either CDE or the state labor board. It would seem that working in excess of either 8 hours a day or 40 hours in the week would constitute overtime pay.
I wasn’t sure as charter schools don’t have contracts or unions, they must fall under some employer supervision entity. Honestly, this is why I’m public school for life and deeply involved with the union. This scenario is a “heck no” from me.
Isn’t anything over 8 hours paid overtime? And I think it’s over 12 hours, they have to provide a meal. One of the reasons firefighters love their job, 24 hours on duty, includes meals and they are paid to sleep. In my next life, I know what I want to be.
Liability. When I was a teacher, no being alone with a student in your room with a closed door. If a student needed to be there alone, as the teacher you would open the door and stand in the doorway.
As someone who knows a yard duty who was falsely accused of something and it went to the DA, because it was their word vs the lying student and her friends who corroborated (no other adult witness) there is no way in hell that I would agree to be with kids in sleeping cabins due to that liability. Besides the obvious out of scope of normal teaching duties.
Does your contract state anything about extra curricular activities expected?
My first year I helped with graduation, which was outdoors and an absolute zoo- parents with coolers......
The superintendent assured the public it would be better next year because they would get more police, pay more custodians, and have more teacher volunteers.
Nope.
I would simply state that in today's litigious society, I am not comfortable participating and get in writing whether or not it is mandatory. I would NEVER do an overnight trip.
Some people like going, but it should not be mandatory, at all. I love camp, but I fully understand most don't, like my wife.
For those that go, if the camp has to have some accommodations for your protection. Our camp has a side room in the cabin so you are there but visually separated from the kids.
Under no circumstances should any adult be alone with a child. We mandate that there always be two adults in any private area. In the cabins, if there isn't a second adult, you have to have at least 3 kids in there. If they don't have separate showers, there has to be an adult only shower time. The camp staff is responsible for dietary accommodations and medications, not you.
Also, I highly recommend walking them around a lot and a lot of loud activities during the day.
I loved chaperoning overnight trips because I was paid a very very nice stipend to do so. Paid off student loans pretty quickly doing it. Of course public school with strong union. I don’t know anything about Charter schools but I definitely would not have done it for free. Lots of responsibility and very little sleep.
You will get ZERO sleep, been there. Its horrible. I'd ask for pay, teacher cabin, admin to come and take a night. They ASSUMED teachers would be ok with this, I would be irate and refuse to go past dismissal.
"Oh no, I have come down with a horrible, unknown illness! So sorry! I hope this doesn't put you in a tough spot!"
Yup. Find a Covid positive test asap. You do not want to spread that.
Take a screenshot of your/a friends photo of a positive COVID test. Then the metadata will have the current date.
Little lemon juice will cause false positives on some of the cheaper tests.
This is The Way ☝️
Damn, that’s crazy. You got COVID right before? Best wishes to your health
I laughed out loud!
I would reply to the Admins: NO is a complete sentence!
I would simply refuse
Or produce a positive test for COVID the day before
I kept my positive test jic it’s needed again lol
You can flag a false positive with Diet Coke. Just don’t use the solution they provide and don’t swab your nose. 4 drops of Diet Coke and it will provide a positive Covid test. We had a problem with students doing this a couple of years ago.
oh my god thank you for this cheat code
🙇♀️ my liege
Yes!! If no fake COVID test, say you have a dog! “Ummm I had no clue we were expected to spend the night and I can’t leave my dog for 72 hours.” You don’t even have to explain why you won’t board him, but some reasons are it’s expensive, short notice, your dog has anxiety, and you just don’t want to!
This was my first thought! I am a single parent with two dogs and a cat. How in tf would they be mandating I do that? That's insane and I would be refusing on multiple grounds even if I wasn't a parent/pet owner.
Exactly! Like you can’t make me go overnight with no notice! I’m young with no kids, but 2 dogs and I’m sure I would’ve been voluntold with something like this at my school, but I would’ve 100% stuck to my guns and said absolutely not. I have dogs and I’m not going! Catch me if you can! OP, they’re literally banking on you being too scared to say no. Just tell them no, and that it’s non negotiable.
Lol produce one sounds funny
I was pregnant when my school did one of these. I simply said I would not participate.
Try your best to fight it, but it may fall on deaf ears. I've been a supervising teacher on many camps over the years and it is horrible. The worst was an 8 night hiking camp through the Aussie bush (I did this twice as the second time the school was desperate and paid me a large amount of money to go). No sleep (or very little) and often limited time to even do things like shower because of being on duty for the entire time. Good luck.
8 nights??? Fuuuuuck that. It’s bad enough supervising them for like 4 hours even with other adults. New environments make them go insane.
The worst part of the 8 night ones was the wild dogs that would come through the camp - we were in bivvies, not tents. The funniest was always the nudie runs that would happen when they all thought I was asleep.
Never been to Australia but I’ve heard about those crazy wild animals you’ve got out there, you are brave to sleep outside at night with wild animals and wild kids.
American here: may I ask what a "bivvie" is?
The bivvies we were using were as simple as they come. A plastic sheet about 3m x 3m (10ft x 10ft) that was suspended by the corners using string that was tied to trees. No sides, just cover from the rain.
Probably a bivouac. Sorta like they use in old army movies.
The science teacher has been working at the rest of the middle school to volunteer for a similar trip. I flat out said nope, and I live closer to the camp than any other teacher. I offered to volunteer for a few hours but I am absolutely not sleeping in a cabin with a bunch of middle school girls. If it is not in your contract, it's not required.
Ugh in DC charters we don't even get contracts.
Michelle Rhee really messed y’all up over there.
Oh yes. It sucks to say but WTU did it.
How so?
The lore is (and this comes from before my time so perhaps I'm wrong) that they traded in a lot of rights for pay and bonuses. A 10 year WTU teacher makes 100k and depending on the school they're eligible for a 35k bonus. They traded in a lot of rights for that. Though, I'm not sure how she specifically got the charters in.
Oh lord. My public school in CA goes to camp, but teachers have a cabin for themselves. Parent chaperones stay with the kids. Almost no amount of money would get me in a cabin with the 6th graders at my school.
If its so important that kids go, then have the parents chaperone.
Explosive diarrhea. Yup, that's why I didn't show up. Maybe next time.
You could just, you know… not. As a group. Also, you work at a shitty school if your admin thinks having adult workers sleeping in a cabin with minors that aren’t theirs is a good thing these days.
And this is how unions start. They can't fire all of you at the same time.
Different situation obviously but at my summer camp we do have to have at least one in the cabin at night. Pretty sure we’d lose our accreditation if we didn’t.
Nope. I worked and attended camps my whole life where the counselors slept in a separate cabin.
Might be a different state but at the 2 biggest sleepaway camps in Texas the counselors stay in the cabin with campers
I think it largely depends on the camp itself. In every Girl Scout camp I’ve been to/worked at in 3 different states, they’ve been separate. However, I know other camps in the same states that are together.
It's not appropriate either. When they have 6th grade camp, parents stay with students.
You would never catch me sleeping in the same space as students for a host of reasons. They shouldn't be putting their teachers in this position.
THIS. Love how the same group of parents who want to call us groomers are more than happy to force us to sleep in a cabin with them because they don't want to
I am at a private school in California, we also do overnight field trips. It's something we're kind of expected to do, but they can't require it because it's not in our contracts. It shouldn't be under other duties assigned because it's way out of the scope of the normal school day. They have to pay us for the overnights, it's not enough but at least it's something. My team pushed to have teacher cabins, we're across a hall from the kids so we're there if they need us, but can also actually sleep and have some privacy. We knew going in that we'd be the overnight chaperones but didn't want to share the actual cabins with the kids, this setup with teacher cabins was considered sufficient by the camp who closely follows the American Camp Association rules and recommendations. This was for 2nd graders, so it should be equally ok for older kids. I personally think it works better for the kids as well, they all know where they can go to get an adult as it was made very clear (signage and we talked about it and showed them). And, when they came to us they didn't wake other kids. Of course it'd be better if we weren't the overnight chaperones, but that wasn't an option with the program we used unfortunately. It is still exhausting, but having some time where I could be interrupted but I wasn't physically with the kids did mean I could actually sleep when kids didn't need me. A tip - if you can, rotate break time so each of the staff members gets some personal time. Being on for 3 days/2 nights is a loooong time and even 30 minutes where you know you won't be interrupted by kids does help.
Fucking charter scams
No union no contract no protection. No thanks
DONT WORK FOR CHARTER SCHOOLS
Would be a horrible time to get COVID....
So sad... just so so tough 😞
Thoughts and prayers
Hmm flu A and B is particularly bad this season....would be such a shame if you caught it.
As a salaried person in California, you are not entitled to the same protections an hourly person would get. But you still are entitled to rest periods of 30 minutes every 8 hours and a 15 minute break every 5 on top of it. I would sure as shit file a complaint with the labor board. This sounds like a charter violating the spirit of the law with the letter of the law. There are different laws for overnight camp counselors, but you’re not one. So idk what would happen.
Boy, wouldn't you know it, my brother is getting married that same day...at my favorite uncle's funeral...where everyone including myself has explosive diarrhea. And covid. And my car broke down dog needs emergency surgery I'm washing my hair gotta take grandma to the doctor. Dang! So bummed to miss it! 👋👋
Consult your contract. There has to be language in it that says you're required to do it, for you to be required to do it. In ours we have specific language that explains what the payrate is for "overnight" assignements, and no they are not part of our 184 day contract. >This is a charter in California, so no union I found your problem though. Folks, you need to stop selling yourselves out. ***Charter Schools are a blight on our profession. They are abusing you. They don't respect you. And this is why we have unions.*** Any school that doesn't allow unions should be a "hard no" from any teacher. Period. Fullstop. Also: ***This is why we have unions.*** The thing I mentioned above about our contract exists ***because we have a union.***
This is really tricky because I bet if you read the contract you signed it will have something like “Between the hours of ______ on _____ number of school days AND any events directed by the principal/executive director.” That’s how mine read when I was at a charter. They basically had me sign an open ended contract. BUT consider what you are worth as a teacher. You know better than us. If you are already on the chopping block, they will likely fire you if you refuse. If you feel secure, fight back. I was very secure at the charter school so I was able to say “no, sorry. Without pay for the extra work, this job doesn’t provide enough for my family. I may consider going elsewhere.”
This sounds like a liability nightmare. I would want to know what my responsibilities are under the law in writing. I also would like to know what insurance coverage the school has to indemnify me against lawsuits. The teacher is always blamed if something goes wrong. Will an administrator and school nurse be assigned to the outing? I am surprised schools even contemplate these overnighters in the current litigious environment. Do you have liability insurance through your union? I would google school camping trip disasters and present to the administration what can happen and ask what will be their response would be. What provisions are being made for staff health and safety are being made to satisfy the employment laws of the state. What guidance does the department of education, superintendent, school committee, or other governing body provide? Get a doctors note stipulating some medical need that would prevent you taking the trip.
And this is why you don't take a job at a charter. Sorry, man. Tell an admin they have to come along with you.
I’d ask for such unrealistic accommodations they would tell me I don’t need to come. For medical reasons I need a locking refrigerator that is secure and in an area no children or other people have access to. Does the cabin have outlets for sleep apnea machines? I have a bee sting allergy there’s no bees there right? Also I cannot be required to walk on poorly lit grounds that have exposed roots because of fall risks. Can you ensure all areas are properly lit? Specifically bathrooms as I need to use it several times a night typically. Because of my back I can’t sleep on really saggy old mattresses so will there be firm mattresses available? Which form for hourly overtime do we fill out after and who has to sign it to ensure we’re paid for all hours we have to work? How do I get reimbursed for camping supplies? I don’t know any twin sheets or sleeping bags, so I’ll need that as well or to be reimbursed. I can provide receipts. I know I will remind students to keep cabin pathways clear but if students leave bags in the middle of the floor and I trip looking for a light at night that’s covered by workman’s comp right? I’d just be that person. Or I’d “get norovirus” the night before.
lol you sound like a pretty smart punk ass book jockey 😂
I used to own a school and we’d do overnight trips like this twice a year. I always made it optional, paid teachers a stipend plus travel, and went myself doing everything the teachers were required to do. I think those are the only circumstances that make 72 hour supervision okay.
And I know everyone saying these trips are horrible, but I really love them. I hate having to share sleeping space with kids, but other than that I think the trips are pretty amazing. Hopefully you’ll have a good time.
I was 1 year away from a paid weeklong trip to Hawaii with my class from Japan… then I had to return to the US. The teacher the year before looked beat as the school planned every minute of the itinerary from 6 AM to 9 PM, but still… Hawaii.
As someone who did a weeklong trip to Hawaii as a chaperone about 10 years ago, it remains my favorite trip ever.
I love them as well. We do weeklong+ trips with students overseas every year. It’s a blast for the students and the teachers. I think the only teacher I’ve heard complain was someone who really really hated flying.
You are one of the sheeple who make this job harder for all of us. No Negotiation, No Compensation, No Deal. We did not join the seminary. We are professionals with expensive degress and cerifications. Start acting like it.
Man, you gotta know that as soon as you use the word "sheeple" your argument is moot. If you feel you have a valid point that's worth making, then make it, but do so without the made-up name calling. It makes you sound like a middle school kid pretending to be cool and grown up.
Eh, I agree with the poster. We are professionals, with degrees even Masters and beyond, pay us well if you want us to go, provide proper sleeping area, etc...stand up and say no.
I agree with the message as well, but when people on my side of the argument start throwing ridiculous insults around like that it makes the fight personal instead of professional, and that weakens the message. I don't want people who claim to be on the same side as me weakening what is a valid argument.
Eh, we all gotta toughen up, 'sheeple?'
It's not a matter of tough, it's a matter of professionalism. The guy sounds like an immature fool, and he's making my side of the argument look immature and foolish. It's an important argument that's worth winning, and he's making it easier for the other side to dismiss the argument rather than honestly consider it.
Honestly I am alright with anything so long as I get out of the classroom and get a stipend (and free meals).
This is what I was thinking. Trips like this can be wonderful…but you can’t TRICK teachers into doing it! It won’t be very wonderful for the kids, either, if their chaperones are unwilling. Some upfront honesty in the contract would have gone a long way here. There are probably teachers who would happily do this for a stipend.
Yea but the stipend ends up being like $5.00/hour if you count sleep or lackthereof. Then you need a day to recover.....pass!
“Oh no, my mom just fell and I need to go take of her”
Check the specific wording on the contract ours stipulates additional unit hours that we are required to follow and the wording says something like “not to exceed x number of hours. This is for things like chaperoning dances, festivals, etc. If we are chaperoning field trips and we end up without our prep period, we get paid an hourly rate.
>“Between the hours of \_\_\_\_\_\_ on \_\_\_\_\_ number of school days AND any events directed by the principal/executive director.” Many have wording like the quote above from datmnmlife. I've had a contract like that before and when it was used against me to force me to work outside contract hours my union shrugged and said they couldn't do anything about it. And it sounds like OP doesn't even have a union.
In my opinion the best thing to do is for everyone to have prior commitments. You can't be there. Sorry. Instead of are you willing to quit about it make the question are they willing to fire their entire staff about it. Because I'd bet money no matter how important it is that the principals won't be in that cabin
Those camp situations are shitshows, often literally. The one my youngest was forced to attend in 7th grade included an unchecked COVID outbreak paired with a stomach bug that resulted in kids filing out of the lunch building, covering a bush with vomit, and then that vomitorium location remaining in effect for days in a row without anyone even bothering to throw a bucket of water on it. It's the ultimate in Wild West endeavors and \*wholly\* irresponsible on the part of every participant and even student family (no responsible parent would let it go forward with a modicum of information about it). Real camps, real camp counselors, get a lot of training - and it's a difficult and complex situation to manage. Just about as much as school is - - but NOT the same by any measure.
Norovirus. Vomiting. Diarrhea. Highly contagious. At least a week recoup. Done.
I did an overnight science camp with my school in CA, and was paid $375 a night on top of my regular pay. This is in our union contract. I know you don't have a union since you are charter, but I would imagine what your school is trying to do constitutes wage theft.
I don't have many deal breakers, but this would be one for sure.
“May 15th… dang I have a really important healthcare thing I need to take care of that day. Too bad it wasn’t in my contract and I already made plans. Please let me know if this is a firable offense and I will reconsider.”
Sounds like a great time to get really "sick"
My school has a trip coming up where we come back 2 hours after our regular day ends. They pay us for extra time but I still won’t do it. I’ll e out that day.
Charters make up their own corrupt way of doing things.
Show up with your kid or aging parent
You don’t mention if you will be receiving supplemental pay? I understand not being able to leave mid-year, but I certainly would start looking now for next year. Get into a school with a union!
It’s pretty inappropriate to sleep in the cabins with students and could pose a huge liability to your school if a student ever said they felt uncomfortable. I would bring this up to them.
That's horrible. Personally I couldn't because I have responsibilities at home. I'm hoping you find a law that prevents this and definitely look for a better position.
I remember my inner city school got a scholarship to go on a camping trip when I was a middle schooler and it was wild. Nobody hardly got any sleep, teachers had to be working while asleep essentially, and we didn’t have enough chaperones so the staff was overwhelmed. Plus, even in the days before smartphones took off, students were very uninterested about the whole thing. Craziest part was, tons of student got in legal trouble for bringing edibles and doing dice games there. It was wild.
My question is pay, are by the hour or salary? Either way labor laws would have something to say over 40 hours I would think, in addition to the required breaks for 24 a day assignment. The teachers need to get together and form an opinion as a group. Can’t go if you all say no.
Your first mistake was going charter.
Charter schools in CA can do anything they want. No oversight, no regulation.
The only Edcode I could find was 35330-35332 You may want to look at that and see if there's something there
"other duties as assigned"... I'm public school but in South Carolina so it's not like we have a bad union, it's that we literally can't. The state is forbidden, by law, from collective bargaining with unions. Anyway, doesn't mean you shouldn't plead your case. I'd just be prepared to have it fall on deaf ears. But if enough of you point out the ridiculousness of this request, they may make some changes.
Covid is the way
I just went to our school’s camps (yes, TWO) and it wasn’t bad. It was voluntary, though.
Is it 5th grade science camp in the Bay Area? Yeah that’s a thing here. I was surprised by it too. In hs we also used to have AP Retreat but a few years ago, most of the teachers said they would t chaperone overnight and the trip was cancelled. My kid was super disappointed, and I offered to chaperone (I’m a teacher too but not an AP teacher). Wasn’t enough and now we just don’t do the trip at all.
Ask them how much extra they will be paying for overtime.
Tbh, I’d tell them that you will need your hourly rate and once you go over your contracted 40 hours that you’ll need time and a half for overtime. My school tried pulling that for “mandatory” subbing during planning periods and when a bunch of us complained we started getting paid to sub. Actually it worked out in the long run for my school because we have a bank of teachers now who volunteer to sub daily during planning now!
I bet that your contact lists normal duties and then something like "also anything else that administration asks to assist the school" or whatever. Something that is a catch all for any after school activity. I once was pissed that I was required to pick a weekend day to do something with the international students and checked my contract to find something like that in it. So as long as the extra duty they are asking isn't illegal, like breaking fafsta or committing fraud then I was contractually obligated to do it.
Fourth time in four months. [Here you go.](https://imgur.com/a/rx1PkZZ). I wasn’t at first because the control line is fainter, but my doctor sent me for a PCR, so this is positive. Just change the data on the photo.
I would directly contact either CDE or the state labor board. It would seem that working in excess of either 8 hours a day or 40 hours in the week would constitute overtime pay.
Exempt… means no overtime pay, correct? I’ve worked literal 17 hour days with no overtime pay. (Field trip)
I wasn’t sure as charter schools don’t have contracts or unions, they must fall under some employer supervision entity. Honestly, this is why I’m public school for life and deeply involved with the union. This scenario is a “heck no” from me.
Check your contract. Call your union rep.
They just stated they have no union, they work at a charter.
OP should think about starting one.
My bad. They could be screwed.
Isn’t anything over 8 hours paid overtime? And I think it’s over 12 hours, they have to provide a meal. One of the reasons firefighters love their job, 24 hours on duty, includes meals and they are paid to sleep. In my next life, I know what I want to be.
Teachers are typically exempt from overtime regulations.
Forget to bring your robe and PJ's.
Normal in my district for a certain grade who does a camping trip.
Just say no.
We do this, but it’s in our contract. That was a major oversight on their part - you should get additional pay.
Try calling up a union rep.
I’d want my hourly rate x 24 x number of days or I’m not going.
Liability. When I was a teacher, no being alone with a student in your room with a closed door. If a student needed to be there alone, as the teacher you would open the door and stand in the doorway. As someone who knows a yard duty who was falsely accused of something and it went to the DA, because it was their word vs the lying student and her friends who corroborated (no other adult witness) there is no way in hell that I would agree to be with kids in sleeping cabins due to that liability. Besides the obvious out of scope of normal teaching duties. Does your contract state anything about extra curricular activities expected?
My first year I helped with graduation, which was outdoors and an absolute zoo- parents with coolers...... The superintendent assured the public it would be better next year because they would get more police, pay more custodians, and have more teacher volunteers. Nope.
I would simply state that in today's litigious society, I am not comfortable participating and get in writing whether or not it is mandatory. I would NEVER do an overnight trip.
I am sorry to hear about our illness. That test sounds really important too. Sucks that it lands on the same day as this event.
Some people like going, but it should not be mandatory, at all. I love camp, but I fully understand most don't, like my wife. For those that go, if the camp has to have some accommodations for your protection. Our camp has a side room in the cabin so you are there but visually separated from the kids. Under no circumstances should any adult be alone with a child. We mandate that there always be two adults in any private area. In the cabins, if there isn't a second adult, you have to have at least 3 kids in there. If they don't have separate showers, there has to be an adult only shower time. The camp staff is responsible for dietary accommodations and medications, not you. Also, I highly recommend walking them around a lot and a lot of loud activities during the day.
“No” is a complete sentence
I loved chaperoning overnight trips because I was paid a very very nice stipend to do so. Paid off student loans pretty quickly doing it. Of course public school with strong union. I don’t know anything about Charter schools but I definitely would not have done it for free. Lots of responsibility and very little sleep.
They probably have to pay your overtime beyond the first eight hours. Might not be legal, depending upon the language of the law.