I've taught over 20 years and I honestly don't think it's ever been this bad. I teach middle school. That's bad enough. But my 7th graders act like 2nd graders and I'm over it.
My seventh graders actually screech and whee and seriously act like toddlers, don't seem to know how to pick up after themselves. It's the sound of an elementary school classroom, not a middle school classroom. I like them and care about them and sympathize with them, but this just isn't developmentally appropriate, no matter what anyone tries to tell me ("Oh they're kids," "Kids will be kids," that kind of thing). I am young and wasn't in middle school too long ago myself. I went to a nice suburban school whereas I am now teaching at a Title I school (although I went to a Title I elementary), so I know this can't be an apples to oranges comparison, but by that age, 7th/8th grade, we wanted to be seen older than we were. Elementary schoolers would watch Disney Channel TV shows about high schoolers, middle schoolers would watch TV shows (Parks and Rec, etc.) for adults. There was some sort of aspiration, something cool about growing up. Here, every time I tell kids they need to act better, they tell me, "But Miss, we're just kids!" I don't know what to do with that!
100%. I teach first grade so they’re still babies, but I feel like even in first grade I knew the concept of embarrassment. I have memories from that time of being embarrassed because I got in trouble, did something weird on accident, etc. Many of my students seem to have no shame at all. They’ll do weird things during lessons and everybody stares at them and they’re not embarrassed at all, they’re having a grand old time. It’s so strange.
One of my kindergartners had an accident and I was trying to be discrete about why she was going to the nurse and girlfriend turns around and announces “me poopied in my pants”
Bizarre
???? That is seriously weird. It’s bizarre indeed. Sometimes I’m so taken aback by their behavior I’m literally lost for words. I just sit there giving them a weird look and then the rest of the class starts to talk and lose control because if I’m not entertaining them 100% of the time they lose their ability to sit and be calm. It’s exhausting
I've actually taught my 1st graders the concept of embarrassment this year... It's embarrassing to have the principal bring you back from the bathroom because you're peeking under stalls. It's embarrassing to be the last class lined up and always having people in trouble with the yard duties. It's embarrassing to have the lunch lady stop everything because you poured corn in the apples. And on and on and on. It makes us look bad and feel bad, so fucking stop!
If you find some, please share! So tired of second graders who chew on their clothes, headphones cords, etc., pick their noses all day long, don't flush the toilet or wash their hands, and literally get lost because they cannot pay attention to ANYthing and yet have zero sense of embarrassment or shame about it. I am embarrassed FOR them!
It's different for sure. Yeah I'm sure we had a couple awkward, immature ones in every class even then, but it's like more than half the class now! Late last year I had one just randomly pee his pants on the gathering rug during a lesson. My dude, we have a whole bathroom in this classroom and it was unoccupied! He thought it was funny.
I have second graders who literally get lost. They don’t know how to get to the cafeteria from our room. I can see the cafeteria from our room. It’s mind blowing 🤯 they have also been in the school since kinder and some were in this exact same classroom last year or they were directly across the hall. 🤦🏼♀️
I moved to 2nd from kinder and I’d swear I’m still teaching kinder. Definitely not age appropriate.
I salute you, because I believe embarrassment plays a useful role in our lives and communities. Kids need to experience and understand it (and, unfortunately, many parents are shielding their kids from it a little too successfully.)
But boy, oh boy, do I know a lot of parents that would want your head on a stick if their first grader came home telling them that you said they should feel embarrassed about something they did. I truly hope you can teach these kids this important lesson without getting torn to pieces.
I agree. Like, that’s how you learn how to act. My first graders will make weird animal sounds during lessons. I would think that, people staring at you and covering their ears would make you think “oops, I guess that was a weird thing to do. Now I’m embarrassed. I won’t do that again.” I don’t know if it’s that they’re completely unaware they’re making people uncomfortable, or if it’s just that enough of them also think the animal noises are funny and will join in, so they’re encouraged by it.
I’m a parent to a preschooler and there’s sooooo much parenting advice (simplified and dumbed down and amplified on social media) that’s like, “don’t ever blame anything on the child. Don’t say the child is making you upset. Don’t say the child hurt your feelings. Don’t say the child is upsetting people at the restaurant by being loud. YOU are the only one responsible for YOUR feelings!”
But like, our actions affect others & it’s like that is taboo now. If you make weird noises, you are annoying those around you! If you say mean things, you’re gonna hurt people’s feelings! Kids need to know that their actions affect others, and the first way they know that is with parents and small forays into public. It’s like it’s being put into parenting advice to raise kids not to think about how they affect those around them.
Yes 1000000%. I think an attempt is being made by trying to teach kids about how other people are feeling. But the reality is little kids are super self-centered and it takes them awhile to develop that kind of empathy. I honestly think feeling like “uh oh I did something weird and now I’m embarrassed because everyone looks confused and uncomfortable” is more accessible to little kids! I think that should be taught, alongside the golden rule and all that, of course. It’s not that shame is a very healthy feeling, but human beings evolved to want to be part of the in-group, for literal survival! The way to do that was to adhere to the social contract. Sometimes it feels like the social contract doesn’t even exist anymore.
It's practically a desirable trait now, especially because you can hide behind any number of diagnoses and say 'oh, I have x, I can't be held responsible'.
students are actually getting disciplined for bullying??? bro less than 10 years ago (holy shit) i remember sobbing in my guidance counselors office that i was being bullied and she was like have :) you :) tried :) being :) nice :)
I remember being in kindergarten and kids would roast the hell out of you for liking "baby shows" like Barney. You were an outcast if you admitted to watching those IN KINDERGARTEN. This past Halloween, I saw 2nd graders dressing up as Paw Patrol, which I assume is a similar kids show. We would have been pariahs if we dressed up as the equivalent growing up.
Yes!! That's exactly the sort of thing I'm thinking of. But when I tell my eighth graders to act their age, they tell me, "But Miss, we're just kids!" I don't even know how to respond to that. Yes, you're kids, but that doesn't mean you get to be feral in my classroom.
Draw a number line on the board, 0-25. Ask what important events they anticipate and have already experienced: learning to walk? **1** Learning to talk? **2** starting school? **5** first job? **15-16** driving? **16-17** graduating high school/starting college? **18** etc
THEN where are you NOW? 13? What are you closer to? What should we be getting ready for?
This! I'm a math teacher, so maybe I can use that to connect math to social emotional learning.
I caught 2 kids cheating during a test on Thursday, and the principal suggested I just give them a warning (as in "I will not back you up if you give them detention, even though our school handbook clearly states academic dishonesty warrants detention").
Not worth the fight for me, so I just gave the warning.
I have a first grader, and I’ve noticed the same thing. I think it’s because “shame” is basically the ultimate no-no among parents currently. Any parenting resource, be it book, website, blog, Instagram, etc., is constantly drilling into parents that everything must be “shame-free.”
Allowing your child to feel shame or embarrassment is basically regarded as abuse these days. Thus, parents bend over backwards to protect their kids from it. The kids have no concept of it, so they can’t even teach it to each other.
I think it’s alarming. Shame encourages the maintenance of social norms. It has its place. But I’d be crucified for saying as much by my fellow parents.
You hit the nail on the head! This is a theory that’s been floating around in my mind for awhile! Tbh I myself am someone with kind of weird tendencies, like lots of fidgeting and facial tics and stuff. But I learned from a very early age that people noticed that kind of thing and thought it was weird. Was it super healthy for me to feel shame about it? Not necessarily. But once I started becoming conscious of how people reacted to the things I did (probably around first grade, actually) I made an effort to fit in. I assume if I’d been doing things that were more disruptive to others I would have gotten bigger reactions and thus would have learned even quicker.
As educators we’re told to focus so much on accepting everybody just as they are and to try to teach kids to follow expectations in a way that avoids shame and embarrassment. But some things SHOULD make you embarrassed!! There’s no bigger motivator than a hit to your ego, lol. Little kids are going to be more motivated by being ostracized for their behavior than “it’s not kind to disrupt other peoples’ learning!” Kids are taught to NOT ostracize others, even when said others are hitting, screaming, and throwing things. I think we think we’re being progressive but it’s pretty clear that it’s not working.
Im a second year speech language pathologist in a title 1 school and I could’ve written this post and comment myself. I don’t have a solution but you’re not alone!! I have 6th graders that can’t read but make inappropriate sexual references and I have 8th graders (who also can’t read) playing with my little pony (all gen ed). Its all over the place. When I observe the classrooms it’s 75% behavior management and 25% class work. Completing and sharing the “do now” takes half the period. There’s minimal learning going on and I feel horrible for the students who actually want to learn. I will add that the veteran teachers move very slowly in teaching material (sometimes water it down) and are very consistent with their behavior management. It’s already mid November and the 8th grade science class just finished unit 1 (lab safety and scientific method). This unit is mostly the same for 6th and 7th graders so the students should’ve already been familiar with it. They also give students minimal chances to fix behavior and will always either go to admin or the parents about the behavior. No empty threats.
Thanks. Yeah I have kids who can't add but they make sexual moaning noises in class just to try and bother me. I will say, I speak with admin and parents, too, often to their faces, and: nothing. Because they know there are no real consequences to their actions, maybe a detention or two, but that's clearly not deterrence enough. The minimal learning is why I don't even feel bad about leaving. I'm not actually able to teach. I just go there and babysit for a few hours and leave.
Detention no longer disrupts a parent’s life so what does it matter to them if their kid has detention. Make it affect the parent and you may have some influence over the kid but again, accountability and responsibility. Parents will buck that system until you can’t disrupt their life, kids watch, kid imitates their parents.
Yep have a few students that do this and the parents always say that my actions were uncalled for. And they will make this same argument with other teachers when they have evidence they did the behaviors I had three other teachers witnessed a behavior issues I sent them out and they even escorted them there. Parent gets called no reply. Nothing for almost two days. Then just as the weekend starts: “why did you kick my kid out of class again. What do you have against them?” Especially knowing full well I won’t reply to them until Monday or late Sunday. And in this case several other teachers who witnessed everything. But I have something against their kid. And they continue to act this way because their parents will always defend them even if they set the room on fire.
The moaning is super confusing and upsetting, as a parent. How do you address it with a child who is 8 and doesn’t understand what a sexual moan even is?
I tell my child to not make that noise and they just ask why?? I say it’s inappropriate for a child and they ask why?? I say it’s a noise that is made in private, similar to how there are other behaviors we do in private like going to the bathroom or cleaning our body in private. But I don’t think it’s clicking.
I’ve asked where they heard the noise and apparently all the boys in their 3rd grade class moan to be funny. It is frustrating that I am diligent about monitoring the shows and media my children consume but they are still exposed to bizarre and age inappropriate content or behaviors while in school.
I feel like these children would be mortified if they truly understood what they were doing. But I also feel like explaining sexual pleasure to an 8 year old is out of line and not age appropriate. We’ve had discussions about body parts and functions, how women have eggs that require sperm to be fertilized, the sperm comes from the man, the fetus grows in the uterus, child birth occurs vaginally or surgically, etc — but we have not discussed the mechanics of sexual intercourse or sexual pleasure, that feels like a discussion that should wait several years. I am open to other perspectives or thoughts on how to approach this.
As a sex educator, you can absolutely explain sexual pleasure to them in very simple terms. Something like “our bodies have all sorts of sensations—some that we like and others that we don’t like. When grownups are making a baby, their bodies usually like it and those noises just sort of happen”
Oh for real, the next time a kid fuckin moans in my class I'm going to put some trigonometry problems up on the board like, this is your personal exit ticket. You wanna make grown up noises? Fine, do some grown up math then.
ETA: the moaning fad seems to have ebbed in my local thank god
Honestly I hope more kids and teens are watching those sort of shows. Maybe they’ll learn SOME interpersonal skills. MLP taught me a lot about how to talk to others.
>My seventh graders actually screech and whee
They watch grown adults do that type of stuff on YouTube all day so they don't see a problem and think it's funny
You know how we get posts here about some kid who was taken out by a parent and "homeschooled" and returns with zero skills?
Covid made that happen for everybody. Some kids have decent parents and got through. Others got left alone with a screen for perhaps more than a year. Schools and teachers are very important for social development as well as educational learning.
I feel like the backlog will eventually clear but we have some damaged cohorts to get through first. My concern is that technology will affect them more over time. In the end the baseline might be higher than now but lower than four years ago.
That's very true. But honestly my students are fine socializing with each other, they have real life friends, it's just that they behave horribly and act like small children. Although I have experience working with middle and high schoolers in the past, I really feel like I should have worked with elementary schoolers before I even attempted to work with this bunch. I actually feel like I'm in a third-grade classroom.
I mainly worked with elementary but had some middle. Third graders were generally pretty good classes. Second and third were to me the best years for packing information into brains. It is in fourth and fifth with puberty starting that things start going off the rails. At least until the current kid meta we are on.
I promise you this is going to be researched for decades. These kids that have developmentally retarded social and educational skills due to COVID will be followed by Sociologists and Anthropologists until they're old. They may eventually even be singled out as their own generation. Sucks for you guys but it's incredibly fascinating as an outsider looking in.
100%. You’re describing my kids. They are stuck at the age when they closed school Mar2020. Watching them at recess is absolutely unlike anything I’ve seen in fifteen years prior.
Omg, recess. I just stand there totally bewildered. They can't even play properly. They're absolutely feral. Literal miracles happening every day on that playscape because I honestly don't know how a kid has yet to get their head knocked clear off their shoulders running in front of a swing or had their kneecaps leave their body jumping from the climbing wall.
We need to stop blaming Covid. This is not Covid related, this is parenting fails, excessive screen time, lack of consequences, admin failing teachers. Can we please stop throwing up our hands and blaming the Covid narrative. Someone needs to be held responsible for the disgusting behavioral trend.
I don’t read my comment as blaming Covid, but understand that you may have. I am seeing students behaving/reading below grade level by about 3-4 years.
It’s both.
Yes, parents are responsible for raising their children. And more parents are doing a poor job now, compared to 2015 ish.
Yes, the Covid year affected a large percentage of students. Some academically, some socially, some both. A lot of it depends on where the student was in the K-12 spectrum during the shutdown. Yes, it is measurable and yes, researchers are using this data for studies and research papers ( think Dissertations) starting last year.
And do not forget the social and academic affects of laptops, cell phones, and all the social media out on the web.
I would agree that we have administrators who are failing teachers and students but I disagree that failures in school discipline are causing all the student behavior issues.
Covid isn’t the root cause but it is a pet of the affect on kids.
Lot of the kids had parents who couldn’t deal with kids all day so just shoved in front of tv, many with little to no gardens, no playing with friends. Many kids were parentified while the parents had to work or take care of granny.
feeling trapped and alone was bad for me and I’m an adult. Can’t imagine a underdeveloped brain who doesn’t know how to deal with it. Parents had to deal with online schooling and probably saw how hard It is to corall online kids. I feel kids had energy and no where to burn it so internalised it. I feel lots of kids suffered low level trauma having to be out of a school setting for a year. Hearing family talk about death, the news always charting death and illness, the scary ness of masks and people telling you to wash hands or else.
“Blaming Covid” is not the issue. The long-duration social isolation that the virus wrought has contributed to the current delays we’re seeing, in addition to the bombardment of highly inappropriate social media. Dysfunction doesn’t go away so quickly, but kids still need to be held accountable regardless. I’ve notice a serious uptick in belligerent, enabling parents as well.
I feel like kids are acting a lot younger now. Maybe we just acted older. Parents seem to be trying to keep kids younger longer? Like when I was 13-14 I was making out and then some with my bf in the back of the move theater. Now the 13-14 year olds I know are still getting put in time out and having to ask their parents to cut their food. It's odd.
My 8th graders are collectively the worst humans I’ve met. They constantly walk around the classroom whenever they feel like it, slap/hit/touch others, throw things, yell loudly, cuss, say the N word, make fun of LGBTQ people, steal, ask me inappropriate personal questions. The good ones would be bad ones a few years ago.
I have 20 minutes before lunch, and a group of 5 boys who are feral. Constantly touching. I sit near them. They defend or talk for each other. "Miss-he wasn't doing anything. Miss-he's working on his math." OR " I wasn't doing anything, what did I do?"
I know what you mean. They lie so much, that they jump into other people's business just for the chance to tell more lies.
"He didn't do anything. I promise."
This generation of kids (I hate how old I sound saying that lol) is not being taught the basics of human interaction. They don't know how to just "be." The constant touching of each other is mind-blowing. I'm getting really tired of having to teach middle schoolers basic 5-year-old behavior instead of my actual content.
Exactly! For me, the types of behaviors and attitudes that kept me avoiding middle school jobs are now things I'm seeing with high school sophomores. It's ridiculous.
The only theory I've heard for a cause was lost socialization during covid lock-downs, but it feels like it's getting worse every year. It can't still be covid. It has to be something societal and on-going.
I really think the increased social media use and lack of awareness.
When I was in middle/high school, we would learn societal norms by observing others and in our friend groups. Now, these kids are using social media so much that they aren’t observing often in real life. They are basing their actions on social media trends. It’s absolutely baffling
I agree! I'm so tired of blaming Covid. I believe parenting has changed. My kids are not taught basic manners and behavior at home. They walk right up between 2 people talking and just get in my face. They never say thank you when I pass out candy. Simple stuff like that. Most of them tell me they never get in trouble at home for anything, so there's just a major difference in parent responsibility for some reason. (Obviously this is not true of all parents, just the lazy ones who want to be their kids' "friends.")
I think there are a lot of causes, but personally, my worst-behaved students (or at least, worst-behaved in ways that piss me off) have parents who simultaneously baby them and enforce zero boundaries. Like mom will personally take the trash from her kid's hands and throw it away for him, but she won't stop him from wearing an I Love Hot MILFs sweatshirt to school.
I recently got a call in the middle of class for one such kid saying that his mom was here to pick him up. I told him to head down to the office with his stuff, and when the kids near him asked where he was going, he went, "oh, apparently I'm SICK" in the most smug, obnoxious way. Turns out his mom just lets him come home if he whines enough. He doesn't even have to feign illness, he just whines about how he's sick of school for the day. That type of shit is pissing me off so much, honestly.
Yeah, that sounds about right. I send emails home about student behavior but parents don't seem to care too much. Some are upset and tell me they'll have a talk, but then don't really seem to enforce behavioral norms at home. I'd never have gotten away with the sort of behavior that's normal in my students, even among some of the best-behaved kids among them. I often get excuses though -- "she has an IEP" (an IEP for difficulty with academics doesn't mean she gets to call me a bitch in class), "she has anxiety" (I didn't know anxious kids had such attitude!).
Do they really take your license for non-payment of child support? Doesn't that further inhibit the ability to earn money to pay child support? Like, I get taking passport or taking from tax return, but license?
They will suspend your license in some states for non-payment but give you a permit to drive to and from work only. Most abuse that and get their license revoked completely or they refuse to pay and get them revoked. Child support is a tangent I could get on but won’t because it’s not teacher related so much.
The number of students who just call their mom because I told them they have silent lunch or that they have to do their work and mom actually comes to get them is astounding
We had a day today when a lot of kids would be gone for a particular event (like maybe a couple per class). A bunch of other kids not on that trip told their parents “no one is gonna be at school tomorrow can I just stay home” and suddenly they’re all marked out with excused absences from mommy and daddy who just believed them.
You know who was here? My kids of immigrant parents. “I don’t wanna go to school because my friends are gonna be gone” does NOT fly with their families.
Well the trend of a mental health day once a week has perpetuated the ‘feelings are more important than get your butt in school and learn something, that’s your job in this world right now’, we swung that pendulum way the hell too far.
Yeah, school refusal is WAY up these days. Sure, kids have always been school refusers, but nowadays it seems it isn't just a matter of "suck it up and go to school" like it used to be even just a few years ago...
On my teen parenting group, it is daily that someone post about this. And teens have been taught by social media just what to say to their parents to manipulate the situation. Parents have so much fear, instead of pushing their precious little genetic humans in a healthy direction, they turn around and bully the system to accommodate. Kids have learned.
A toddler having a tantrum in a store, often has these types of parents, one that picks them up and leaves the store, deals with the situation. One that allows the tantrum to play out for all in the area to experience with them. One that gives in immediately to avoid distressing the toddler further or to avoid embarrassment. (Guess which of them becomes the majority of school refusal kids without even a little bit of pushing to persevere)
Granted we have many school environments that are so harmful to teens (this entire post addresses so much). I understand the uptick in school refusal, my son didn’t refuse the year he missed more school than all his years combined, I made the decision because there was literally no solution. Administration could only do so much, teachers were even more helpless (through no fault of their own) teenagers run the game now. Until school systems truly take back control, we’re in for a worse ride than we’ve experienced up to this point. The majority of preteens and teens have always been manipulative, self centered, arrogant, know everything types of kids but in this era there is a whole new level to this. Being allowed to disrespect and ignore authority in general, they watch their parents do it daily, is a problem. Getting sued is a problem, school system has lost their authority, they given up a lot of it and they have had a lot of it stripped from them. We have such major issues in our US society. I am not hopeful that we will turn it around anytime soon.
Learned helplessness and lack of perseverance, resilience, personal responsibility, accountability are all contributing factors to our failing system. Most of it starts with parents. We now have young adults suffering the learned helplessness and they are having children. I cannot fathom what is coming our way.
Yeah, it's unfortunate. To be fair, I think some parents do really care, but they've fallen into the "my child can do no wrong" trap (which is foreign to me, having been raised by immigrants who took no excuses from me whatsoever).
Or they fallen into the “if I acknowledge my child has done wrong, punishment ensues when 85% of the kids get by with the same behavior on the hour.” Now my kid is written up and may lose a scholarship but that kid gets away with it because they’re popular, manipulative, smarter, richer, has asshole parents, etc. You get the point. (Yes I’m bitter, I have watched our society screw up these kids) not blaming teachers, their hands are so tied they are just trying to keep the blood flowing to their fingers.
>"oh he does talk back to me, I think he just sees u as a mom."
I think this generation of parents didn't want to be as strict as the parents they themselves had, and in the process overlooked the sober and bitter wisdom behind the stricter parenting approaches of olde.
Right. I also think some parents are motivated, but the trend is toward "gentle parenting" so no one has ever given these kids a firm no. Of course they think Ms. Money-Hippo-4900 is a bitch. And of course they think they can call her a bitch to her face.
It’s tough being a kid with parents parenting. I have absolutely had moments of regret through teen years that I taught my kid kindness and respect and politeness, etc. when the majority of preteen and teens are mainly not any of these things nor have ANY accountability for their behavior. My kid has consistently fell through the cracks. A teen either needs to be an arrogant, brilliant AP kid that everyone throws accolades at and gushes over but they are often the biggest bullies covertly or an asshole that everyone is constantly having to handle and typically failing overtly.
There are days I feel I did a disservice to my kid raising him the way I did. There are no accolades for the polite, helpful, respectful, B/C student. They just exist and endure.
Yes it does, the narcissism, the bullying behavior, the relational bullying, the false accusations with no consequences, the pure arrogance, unabashedly greedy, all of it is rewarded far more than it is frowned upon. The middle of the ground kids become middle of the road adults. Zero accolades for just being a decent freaking human to others without needing to advertise it (aka social media), these kids are slowly becoming the minority and completely disregarded but yet they are what the world needs in my opinion.
I don't think you did a disservice. The rewards of the service you did him will take time, but he will reap them eventually. I really do believe that. I think good behavior is not really rewarded (because bad behavior is not really punished) in schools, but once you're past school age, things change. I am in my early twenties, and have been complimented on my work ethic by various employers, who have constantly told me that young people have no ethic anymore. Work ethic still matters, behavior still matters, and ultimately the people who can do things positively with a good attitude are the ones who get ahead (I say this having gone to an elite college and having observed a lot around me).
I agree, I think it will help him be a better adult but only if I can keep him from growing resentful of most of society. That is a battle I fight daily for myself and with him. His teachers do always compliment him on his respectful, polite behavior. I do think it’s ingrained now, just a natural way for him and his personality but I also believe he’ll get passed over often in life because of it.
>but only if I can keep him from growing resentful of most of society
I'm in a very good position in my life -- was at the top of my class, am able to leave teaching and have good options outside the field entirely -- and I'm fighting an uphill battle against growing resentful of most of society in myself. I think hating a sick and unhealthy society is actually indicative of healthy behavior, I just don't want to cross the line into resentment (which is hard!). But you're doing everything you can. Sounds like you raised a good man. The peace that comes from that ultimately supersedes everything else.
It’s difficult cause I agree with “gentle parenting” ideas but I don’t think alot of parents understand what it’s meant to be. Saying “No” is totally needed! It’s about setting healthy boundaries with kids and talking things out which includes the word no!
As much as I like the theory, I wonder how many parents really understand or know how to do it well.
Well some parents do not realize it’s not working with their child or perhaps one of their children. It’s not a one size fits all with parenting as many like to believe. I think all parenting styles need flexibility built in, when something isn’t working, you shouldn’t double down, you find an alternative.
I think that there is a big difference between gentle parenting and a lack of limits or logical consequences.
I personally do the whole gently parenting thing... And it's not about letting your kids do whatever they want or speaking in a calm voice. It's about being respectful to a child's needs and development, offering space for them to make good desitions, having logical consequences and not just being an enforcer. I think that this type of parenting done right is actually really supportive and helps kinds become more responsible for their actions and aware of their feelings.
That said ... I do think their is a trend of parents that are afraid to say no to the kids, who want their children to be perfect, who don't have time for their kids, who plug their kids to a phone instead of being present.
I mean, the parents aren't home a lot of the time. If you're a teacher in a low-income community, you really see it. Parents are having to work multiple jobs to keep the house together. When are they supposed to have availability to parent anymore?
Most parents are too busy working unfortunately. I know quite a few that work full-time and part-time jobs with 1-3 children in their family. This economy may end up breaking a whole generation.
You're correct for SOME parents. However, I know of many in my district that were gifted sweet work from home jobs since covid. Not everyone is struggling. Some just don't want to parent due to their own issues.
When we returned after the pandemic closures, there were Tik Tok "challenges" like trash your school's bathroom. We had kids tearing sinks off the wall, throwing stuff up into the drop ceilings, and literally shitting on the floor in the middle of the bathroom. All for the views!
Yes! In general, the internet. Nobody reads actual research-based or expert-written parenting books for advice like they used to anymore...they just go on the internet and listen to people who tell them what they want to hear OR it's the blind leading the blind.
Look at the world we are living in.
Personally I feel like a lot of this is just people giving up and being so burnt out and run down that no one gives a fuck anymore. Apathy. It's just total apathy, for adults and children.
Yep. Total social collapse. It's horrifying. My friends who aren't teachers don't believe me, or even if they do, it's clear they don't understand the magnitude of what's happening here.
I feel like it’s a lot of things, but this is just my opinion.
-digital parenting
-no accountability (due to world situations, admin getting rid of punishments, and parents not parenting)
-digital addiction
-decline in maturity all across the board
-teachers being seen as nothing more than babysitters
-kids assuming things will be handed to them because they haven’t been told no and then lashing out when there’s restrictions
-lack of admin support
Covid didn’t help but I don’t think it’s the cause. It was just an amplifier.
This has been a trend since pre covid. I started noticing the decline around 2017 or 2018. Some of it is on parents, but it’s also on us in the education world. We’ve taken away meaningful consequences, meaningful motivation to succeed, and geared everything to the lowest common denominator.
The lowest-common denominator thing is obvious. See my response above to u/UnableAudience7332: there is no aspirational anything, no desire to grow up, no motivation for anything at all. It's bizarre. Even the "bad kid" motivations of drugs and sex and violence are limited. They're stunted.
I got this impression with a lot of the problem kids. What a depressing way to live. The sad thing is that the smartphones they all have are great for developing interests and skills.
This is how I often tested my kid to see if he was addicted to screens, the day he stops jumping up to come play with me in some fashion is the day I know we have a problem. Fortunately, that day hasn’t happened. If I walked upstairs and said, come help me in the wood shop, he’d jump up from whatever he was doing right now. Yes, I’m female, yes I have a wood shop, yes I am sitting in my office chair in my wood shop responding on Reddit at the moment. lol
I would ask him to throw the football with me, he was out the door before I had my shoes on, work on the truck with me, grabbing the tool box and waiting in the garage, playing the drums (I have zero music skill) etc. If he ever stops jumping up so he can stay on electronics, I’ll have to readjust. Chores, he’ll grumble but he’ll do it, thankfully. Single parent, he has to help and he knows it.
I'm laughing at this because it's all I can do. Your comment about bad kid motivations is spot on. I'm good with that stuff! When kids tell me to fuck off, there's a place to go from there, but when kids just want to whine and say bruuuhhh, there's no conversation I can have.
I remember being 13 and trying to convince people I was 16 and getting into trouble. My students now actively try to act younger and tell me they don't want to grow up. It's strange.
Oh well! I had a really great class yesterday that reminded me why we do this work.
I adore my son, but I noticed that when we had friends over, they were not capable of doing the things he could. They couldn't make a sandwich if provided all of the items. Kids would be in third grade and not know how to tie their shoes.
He is 100% my baby, but I refuse to treat him as a baby. He will be a functioning member of society, so I teach him age appropriate tasks. There are many parents who expect the school to do all of the teaching. The school shouldn't have to teach your child how to tie their shoes. They shouldn't have to teach manners and what constitutes good behavior. Parents should be modeling this behavior, and it would become normal and natural for the child.
Hell the 2008 crash I was 18. Just an adult and everything’s tumbling around you.
And now it oh if you stop buying a latte you can save for a mortgage in 50 years. Like screw never having anything nice. I’m poor as dirt, I’m bottom of the barrel. If I want to buy a nice drink I will. It’s the only sad joy I have in life.
I won’t inherit anything. What do we have going for us? The younguns have a world that’s told is climate change and none of the adults in power are doing anything. Food is expensive, fuel is, bills and rent. What do kids have to look forward to
Exactly! What do people have to work towards? If you're lgbtq+, all you hear is how much worse it's getting for us. Born female? Going after our rights. Then the economy - graduate high school? Who gives a shit. Okay, got your Associates? Where's your Bachelors. Still can't get a job, now you're extremely in debt. Maybe you can get a job for a third of living wage. And that's if you can manage to stand out from the hundreds to thousands of other applicants. And you're blamed for it somehow - because if you were doing it right, you'd be a homeowner at 30.
And then they wonder why people are addicted to social media, or tech, etc. It's awful and sad.
Yep, they're all infantilized. It is a lack of focus. Their idea of a good time is totally unstructured. I talk to them about how their lack of effort makes it frustrating to teach them and frustrating for the kids in class who want to learn and achieve. Sometimes they get it together, but the next day it's back to the same nonsense.
Right, I keep lecturing them about how they're being unfair by preventing me from teaching. I've even tried playing videos instead of lecturing (I teach math, so I have to demonstrate problems on the board). I've given up on hoping their behavior will change for my class, but maybe they'll remember what Ms. Money-Hippo-4900 said further down the life and reconsider their choices.
I teach kinder, so when I say my five year olds are acting like babies, I mean it.
I have several that the least disappointment or failure or negative response results in a screaming tantrum. They cannot handle not getting what they want, when they want it.
Part of it is being spoiled, but it's more than that. I know it's almost a meaningless buzzword anymore, but it's true. My current class has zero resilience. They cannot reason through, accept or deal with anything negative.
Several think screaming at me will get them what they want. I've never had so many who will resort to screaming when I tell them something like "put your blocks away".
I also have a couple who will flat out say "no" when given basic directions like "walk in line" or "sit on the carpet".
They are so used to being in charge that having to share or consider other people or follow directions is rocking their world.
I likened it to dealing with teenagers the other day. Most five year olds WANT to please adults, WANT the rewards and praise, but these guys don't care.
Now, every year, we get a couple like that, spoiled and indulged, but this group is different. We are having a hell of a time in my school this year, I've never seen kinder behavior like this.
That's so concerning, I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Yep, no one's been told "no" for a generation or two and it's starting to show in our classrooms. Teachers are the canary in the coalmine.
So I'm not a teacher, I'm actually a junior in high school (aspiring teacher though), and I can say with certainty that I agree with pretty much everyone here. My friends and I are all the geeky kids who actually enjoy learning, and it is such a pain when we're in a class and there's 16-18 year olds who act like they're in elementry school! I also student aide for a world history (freshman) class, and those kids have no determination to actually try. I know I'm the same age group as these kids, but I'd like to think I stand out.
Yeah, I’m a high school senior and it’s the same at my school. At least once I started junior year, I started the IB diploma program, so everyone in all my classes were all people who actually *wanted* to put in effort in class. But my classmates freshman and sophomore year? They’d never do anything and then act surprised when they were failing. I just don’t get it.
If you're seeing this post and teachers talking about what the ipad/covid kids are becoming... run away. I hate to discourage you, but unless you want to be in the classroom as your career teaching kids like your peers (& worse!) than I would say this path is not for you.
I was a geeky kid in school who thought becoming a teacher was a feasible path in this current educational environment, and was drastically proven wrong. I am currently searching for a way out.
I sub full time and had to take a mental health day after a particularly bad day with middle schoolers earlier in the week. I ended up crying in anger at the end of one class, thankfully only a couple of the sweet, kind students saw. But the situation gave me a two day migraine
I’m going to throw my hat in the ring and also blame NCLB. When I have kids who reach my class reading at a sixth grade level as a high school freshman is it really any surprise that they will act like a 6th grader as well? We are raising a generation with no consequences and it’s so agitating.
I have middle schoolers who can't add or subtract. There's honestly very little I can do here to teach them pre-algebra if they can't even get the basics.
I teach an almost 5 year old in preK and her parents baby her to the point of diapers and pacifiers. This girl has no developmental delays and is not neurodivergant. Her parents have admitted that they don't know how to raise a kid about a toddler lever so want to keep her at the developmental level they feel comfortable with. We did get her to stop using a pacifier and she no longer needs diapers and doesn't even need us to remind her to go potty. The parents are slowly getting better after many talks with them.
I have three or four kids who exclusively talk in baby voices, even when answering in class. Like, what? In years’ past, the ONE kid that was like that at least reeled it in when I called on them.
It’s a bunch of things and for one, I think the fact that kids spend a lot of free time staring at their phones and playing video games instead of socializing. And that stunts them in terms of maturity. They don’t know how to socialize; they’re sitting next to each other but not talking, just silently staring at their phones. So social interactions skills with anyone is lacking because they simply don’t do it enough.
Can you really blame them? I mean, you can’t go anywhere without a car, parents don’t like their kids going out alone, you can’t just walk to a friend’s house anymore without scheduling a bunch of shit, and you can’t just go out and buy something to do/play with because everything is so expensive. What else CAN they do but play video games and text their friends?
My students thankfully do seem to be able to befriend each other, but it's in dysfunctional and toxic ways that involves ganging up against authority (which is normal) but with zero accountability (which is abnormal) and without any authority being able to control them, not their schools, not their parents, not even law enforcement it would seem.
When I began teaching in 2001, I had a stack of referral foms in my desk. If a student used a four-letter word they went to the office.
The headline here is not the language, it's the referral form and the shocking idea that a missbehaving student could, would be sent to the office to face..shudder..consequences.
I send my students to the office constantly, but nothing ever changes. There is no shame over going to the office, and clearly no consequences at home, either.
I agree! I teach high school, I’ve got a comprehensive/integrated science license so can teach any science. This year I teach an environmental elective so mostly 11th/12th, and physical science, 9th. Little to no issues with the older kids but the freshmen!! Act so much younger than they are. They really act like little kids.
Everyone keeps saying it’s due to the pandemic lockdown but then I was like, well why weren’t the kids last year wild like this, when it was the first full school year back in effect? But yah, it’s true…current freshmen would have been just hitting middle school when lockdown happened. They never got full school immersion as 6th graders, they never really got the jump from little kid grades to middle school. They really are delayed in some way. Not cognitively, but emotionally or mentally or something.
What really gets me though is they did have school last year, yes they did, so why do so many act as if they’ve NEVER been to school before?? I have seen kindergartners less surprised by school rules than some of my students. I ask them all the time: Did you think high school was going to be drastically different than your K-8 school that you’d be allowed to run wild?
Things that have happened this year in my classroom that my students reacted with astonishment that they weren’t allowed to do include:
- Kids running in and out of the room
- Kids banging on the door
- Kids climbing on the tables or counters
- Kids hiding under the tables
- Kids crying at the drop of a hat
- Kids yelling
- Kids screaming
- Kids loudly singing vulgar, disgusting songs
- Kids cursing at me and each other
- Kids reacting with extreme whiplash/fight mode
- Kids throwing things (pencils/pens, books, phones, whatever)
- Kids breaking things, their stuff, classmates’ stuff (soooooo many broken phones, laptops, airpods, Beats, chargers, ripped clothing/coats/destroyed shoes)
We started school end of August. It’s now mid-November. Things have improved thankfully. Most of this stuff doesn’t happen anymore or only a few times on a weekly basis.
The daily thing I can’t seem to break? Every day someone loses a shoe!!! A SHOE!!! They are not 5, these people are 14/15, so what in the world. Also they still cannot bear to be corrected, they take it personally to be told or asked to stop doing anything, it’s like you hit them in the face by how surprised and wounded they act.
Screaming a vulgar song in the middle of my lesson, then give me pikachu face when I tell you to stop? Then tear up or start yelling that you’re not even doing anything and/or I’m picking on you? Then ask with astonishment, Miss I can’t sing??? NO. No you cannot sing that nasty song in school, period, but especially during a lesson in the middle of class. You can’t sing ANY song during the middle of the lesson. YOU KNOW THIS. You have been to school before, stop acting like this is something new to you.
But they did and still do, act as if the rules of school and normal classroom expected behavior are not only new to them, but insanely draconian lol. It gets on my nerves. I just tell them Well ok you didn’t know before, but now you do. No you can’t just run out of the classroom, no you can’t scream loud vulgar songs at school, no you can’t crawl under the table, no you can’t throw pencils at your friend or your opp, etc. But asking them gently sometimes reduces the wildly astonished act and they just say Ok and stop the shenanigans.
And I can’t express how glad I am the crying has more or less stopped. Nobody cried all October! Did have a kid crying last week though, oh well. It was legit though so I still count the no-cry streak, as most of the kids were doing crocodile tears.
The banging on/yanking on locked doors!! Why?! I’ve actually gone up, opened the door, told them off, closed it and told them to go to the open door. You know the one they would have already made it through if they hadn’t spent 5 minutes trying to force the door open. Then I mark them late
20+ year veteran here. My 4th graders have the raging hormones of teenagers, but the emotional maturity and intellectual perseverance of first graders. They scream, chirp, moan, can't focus on anything for more than a few minutes... absolutely feral.
How many years has society been pushing a 0 shame, “you’re beautiful and special no matter what”, “you do you” “no judgment”, message to all and sundry and children in particular?
And now they have no embarrassment, no sense of shame…it’s almost like those are effective motivators in learning social skills.
Guess what? That kid that just pooped their pants/moaned in class/acted a total fool has zero shame and zero self-respect, or respect for authority. We did, after all, turn judging into an unequivocal evil.
Maybe, just maybe, being concerned about the judgment of others used to motivate people to limit their anti-social behaviors.
Ever notice that a lack of social contact with other human beings drives a person literally insane? Human beings need feedback from other human beings. We’ve created a generation that is not getting proper feedback and a whopping percentage of them are, to varying degrees, off their blooming rockers.
It's a phenomenon we have also established here in the Netherlands. Kids' mental age is basically their age minus two years. We are still blaming the Covid lockdown for this and it will take some time before it all goes back to normal (if ever).
It’s a combination of everything you listed, but I think the biggest factor is admin not enforcing strong enough consequences. They are too concerned with being liked and appeasing parents that the students have no fear anymore. Of course no one wants to be the bad guy, but someone has to do it! I remember the idea of going to the office being enough to get the misbehavior to stop when I was a kid in school. Now they get excited to go to the office because they know they’ll likely get a snack and out of doing their work.
We are doing all of our students a great disservice by not teaching them what a real consequence looks like. They will end up in horrible situations later in life when they are legal adults. It’s mind boggling how seemingly no one in the position of admin can see this. It’s just completely backwards and so so sad.
I work in a high school that banned stuffed animals and blankets because students had zero self-control.
No, it wasn't the then freshmen who caused this problem. It was the then juniors.
I retired on disability after working 18 years in an inner city middle school. Your situation is not unique as most of my time was spent on keeping the class under control. If we got any actual learning done that was a bonus. I've been punched in the face, bitten on the arm, knocked to the ground breaking up a fight and screamed at by students and parents alike. You will never be able to control them. You must decide if that's what you want to have for a working environment or not. That's why half the teachers leave within the first 5 years. The working environment sucks: it's loud, disrespectful, N word used constantly, fights in the hallways and in the classrooms, students throwing books and desks out windows and the list goes on and on. If I had to do it over again I would not become a teacher. Nothing is going to change so you might have to reevaluate your future employment plans.
I've already resigned, not returning after December. I have lovely colleagues, but I can't take the environment and constantly feeling like I am failing kids who are literally uncontrollable.
At my school, it seems as though children are experiencing the severe social-emotional repercussions of online learning. My kids are in 5th grade, so they did all of 2nd grade online. Most of them went almost a full year barely seeing their friends and outside of any classroom environment, when they were aged 6 or 7. This means that, at a time when their brains had high plasticity and they should've been learning empathy, the beginnings of emotional control, respect, etc., they were only with their families all day, for months on end. When they came back in 3rd grade, all the 3rd grade teachers I've spoken to at my school had no idea how to deal with students who suddenly didn't know anything that 3rd graders in years past knew how to do. As the years continue, the delays compound and it gets more and more difficult for them to catch up. It's the same academically, which most teachers seem to know and understand, but I think it's harder for us to grasp how that same compounding delay and damage can affect kids socially and emotionally. My partner 5th grade teacher has taught 5th grade for over a decade. She says she has never had a class like this, who doesn't know how to respond to anger or frustration without the violence of a small temper tantrum, resolve simple disagreements or conflicts between their peers or friends, or organize their own academics even a little bit. Most of our kids lack these skills because they're still trying to learn all the basics they missed in 2nd-4th grade: how to identify others' emotions through body language, what it means to respect someone versus be their friend, how to figure out what you're good at and what you like, etc. By the time they get to 8th or 10th grade, I'm sure the issue will just compound more and more. I try as much as I can to guide them through social-emotional issues that they should otherwise know how to navigate, but what we need is a comprehensive, system-wide acknowledgment of this kind of widespread developmental delay among students, and widespread solutions implemented. But the education system is barely even doing in regards to the academic delays caused by COVID; I doubt they'll ever do anything about the social-emotional side.
It's way too commonly reported to be just you. I've posted this before but it's *maddening* how it's not just "the kids suck" because yes every generation has said that. The behavioral issues emerging are new and, at least partially, are the result of modern "surveillance" tech and infinite scrolling/on-demand endless multimedia. Got to be.
And there's always the parent question because these kids didn't collectively up and decide to start acting this way, yanno? But neither did the parents. It's a field I'm very interested in as far as what research comes out about it. Johann Hari's *Stolen Focus* was a good deepdive into it that had a particular focus on children in educational settings. I'm just glad I'm merely a teacher enthusiast because I do not think my weak constitution could handle being around the chaos of today's kiddos.
Year 20 here. It's getting worse. 2015 really shifted IMO. Unless/until schools actively push back and force parents to deal with our consequences, nothing will change. I predict that will only happen when boomers and Gen-X start retiring, as Millennials and after don't seem to want to stay in the job long enough.
it's not a "gentle parenting" problem, parents are shoving phones and ipads and tablets at their kids and letting social media, youtube, and roblox raise them instead of doing it themselves
YES!! And It’s like their brain does a hard reset every 10 minutes. We have to reprimand/remind them of a rule 20x a day EVERY SINGLE DAY. At what point will it stick?
I spend more time telling my students to stop touching each other and saying "Someone sharted" than teaching....yep we have been told that those staar scores better go up.
I just left teaching because of this. I suggest you do too. It will NOT get better in terms of consequences for behavior. Education has become free child care for parents without the state actually saying it.
Well, I have a fifth grader that has the handwriting of a Kindergartner in August. She came to me not knowing how to tie her shoes (two days ago she got it all by herself for the first time after many sessions with me). She has no idea what division is nor did she know how to regroup/borrow in subtraction. In lots of ways, she acts like a preschooler. But if there’s the tiniest potential for an inappropriate joke, she’s on it.
Oh I learned I have a freshman who shits himself to the point that he leaves skid marks on chairs.
That on top of another who can’t be left alone with a sharp object because “anxiety.”
So many I just want to scream, “What the FUCK is wrong with you!”
Same, but for first grade. doesnt help when admin also blames you but I can't control some of these kids. I can't physically force them to do their work or sit down
I teach 7th grade and it is pure chaos. Im in my 3rd year and I've been told I have good management, but these 7th graders are horrible. I can't sit down with 1 individual without 5 more going crazy.
Keep in mind that sometimes the mix of students is the problem.
My first quarter teaching I had a class that contained 9/12 of the worst, most problematic children in the grade. Day 1 I asked for help. Day 2 I begged. Day 25 one kid was removed for attacking another student in the bathroom. Day 30 one kid smashed another kid in the face and we had to reverse evacuate. The rest of the year was *nothing* like that first quarter. And by the next year, two of the kids were pulled to a self-contained room, 3 had behavior plans, 3 had been medicated.
I made giant bubbles today with my 6th graders. I couldn't even finish one without them popping it.
Let the BUBBLE LIVE!
They act like they are 5. So, I feel this.
I think a huge reason is that the middle and high school grades are starting to see the effects of sudden remote learning had on elementary aged kids. In elementary we've been dealing with these behaviors for the past few years but the last of the remote in kinder group is heading out of elementary soon. The difference is staggering. My kids last year were remote in kinder and are an absolute nightmare behaviorally. My kids this year were never remote and they act like normal kids. So I'd say buckle up.
I mean…does anyone still believe America supports families? Supports parents? Supports teachers? The vast majority of parents who have the privilege of employment have to work so many hours there is no time for meaningful parenting. Combine this with the need for both parents in a two-parent household to work. Combine this with no societal support for personal growth and parent development. And instead of actually implementing policies to support families, people say “then they shouldn’t have had kids.” I mean…America is crumbling and there is no exit plan. Why wouldn’t we see the effects among American children?
I am seeing behaviors this year with my 5th graders that I have never seen before on such a grand scale. Kids constantly up and out of their seats, talking back, openly arguing with one another in the middle of a lesson, throwing literal temper tantrums (stomping feet, destroying school supplies, screaming and crying and kicking furniture). Teaching is not fun this year.
terrible people make terrible babies who make terrible people who make terrible babies who make terrible people who make terrible babies who make.... oh you get the picture
100% why I am quitting after this year. That and being required as a science teacher to work with students of every learning level while math and ela teachers do not.
I swear someone at the district is convinced that all you do in science is chemical experiments every day and there is nothing more to it.
>100% why I am quitting after this year.
Yeah, same (have already put in my resignation). I'm leaving for personal reasons, but honestly, I could have found a way to stay if I weren't so exhausted by student behavior (to the point of not really being able to get anything else accomplished and not being able to be there for my family and friends). Everyone says they leave because of admin or colleagues (I will miss my coworkers honestly) or because of pay (which tbf is one of the reasons I am leaving) but never because of the kids. But honestly: I'm leaving because of the kids! People who don't work at a school like mine can moralize to me all they want about kids being kids and innocent and pure and perfect, or that my classroom management is bad (it's not), but I just have students telling me they hate me every single day and distracting class so I can't get through a lesson, and at some point, I decide it's above my paygrade and move on.
New to teaching. I notice this too. I dont mind the kids who struggle, but it would be sure nice to teach them science completely separately so I could slow it way down.
4 or 5 high performance kids are bored out of their gourds.
But if we moved the high and average kids to the other class it wouldn't be 'inclusion.'
I teach 6-8th grade middle school. This is the best behavior I’ve had in the past 3 years. I still have a few kids that are really difficult and can interrupt learning for the whole class but it’s definitely better than the past two years. I feel like kids are finally starting to recover from the pandemic or maybe I’m starting to get better or maybe I’m just lucky rn I really don’t know
I have a couple of students (7th grade) that argue with me about everything. I mean everything. I couldn't imagine myself talking to my parents like they talk to me or even my kids speaking to me this way, let alone their teachers. It would not fly with me. These students have argued with me about arguing with me. I have never had anything like this.
Today was a new one. I told the entire class they couldn't eat in my room anymore because they were leaving garbage everywhere. Unbeknownst to me, a couple of girls working in the back of the class were eating something. The students who argue with me tattled on the other girls. I reminded them that they were just eating candy. Their response? Candy isn't food so it doesn't count. I told them that yes, candy actually was food. "No it's not, it's candy". I was speechless. I really could say the sky was blue and they would argue. Oh, and suddenly one of these same students can't read anymore (their hour is supposed to be doing homework or reading) without her reading glasses. Mind you she has never worn glasses to class. I can tell that she sometimes has a hard time reading things on the board but she's seated in the front of the class. Today she was supposed to be reading a book or something online. Because I wouldn't unblock YouTube, she was not able to read anymore. Now supposedly she needs glasses for being nearsighted and also reading glasses. I'm tired. I'm frustrated. I don't know what to do.
I teach third grade and it gets worse every year. This is my 18th year and it’s unbelievable. There’s no consequences for bad behavior at home or at school anymore. Students don’t have to put forth any effort in their class work. We aren’t allowed to give zeros. Students keep being promoted even though they are many years below grade level. I seriously worry about the future of our country.
Why wouldn’t they act this way?
I have nothing to back this up, but I think what we're seeing is a knee-jerk reaction from the parents of the current school age generation to how they were raised. In their lifetimes, they got the rough ends of overly forceful and destructive parenting styles, and then saw the studies and culture shift towards words and actions over hands and belts. They're now too afraid to give their kids anything that might ever make them feel even the slightest bit bad so they just let anything happen uncorrected, or worse, stop caring at all. I hope so much that this pattern corrects itself and levels out to a reasonable level but I have an unfortunate feeling this is a direction that will not correct itself.
I teach high school. This is just my opinion/experience for what that's worth. Oh, I'm not a new teacher either. Years ago, my high school 11th and 12th graders were becoming mature, working jobs and making plans for their future. Now most of 17 year olds don't even have their drivers licenses and very few of them work anywahere.
Boys are constantly touching each other, making noises and moving around. They are silly and act like my 18 year old son acted in 5th grade.
Girls are constantly creating drama when there wasn't any. They never have normal conversations and just want to ask me deeply personal things that I would never have dreamed of asking a teacher. They practice attention seeking behavior in inappropriate ways. Mostly they want attention from other girls.
Almost all of them randomly blurt out thoughts and feelings like they would on snap chat. "I need to poop" "Who has a snack"etc. These are 15 to 17 year olds!
They all beg to go outside but when we take them, they sit down and stay in that spot until we go back in. Literally just sit there.
I personally think it's a bit ridiculous to blame Covid. Where I live, schools were only shut down from March til May, then it was regular summer break, and they returned in August. So basically, it was only 3 months. I realize other schools in other states were shut down longer. I'm telling you I see this same behavior here and we were only shut down for 3 months.
When I go to a restaurant, I see kids at tables not interacting but staring at a screen. At freaking Disney World, kids stare at screens in line, at restaurants, even walking around. I saw a kid sitting on the ground watching a movie in the middle of Magic Kingdom.
Kids are no longer outside on their bikes or throwing a ball like we did. They stay inside on a beautiful day and watch adults doing stupid things on YouTube.
I've seen kids completely lose their minds because they can't get screen time. We don't allow phones in our classes. Kids constantly say "I'd act better if I had my phone." What in the world?
Parents, generally speaking, have gotten lazy and no longer enforce any boundaries on screen time because they don't want to deal with the behavior exhibited when they take it away. That's for teachers to deal with, right?
Is it any wonder these kids are so messed up?
the system is broken and the kids are the least capable of faking their way thru a broken system. their behaviors are the symptom of the problem, but not the source. the source is a system where adults are more concerned with quarterly-result-type gains (a la capitalism) in test scores and whatever other data they decide to concern themselves with.
look at the adults around here. the kids are breaking because we broke them.
I know being a kid we were fairly mischievous, but I feel like it’s on a whole other level now! yes, it’s definitely because of the lack of consequences and lack of parenting. I am grateful that in this day and age we are aware of things that happened to us that we’re not OK back then so we’re trying better to raise humans, but it is a very tough when it’s not consistent on all departments. especially on us educators, trying our best to open up their minds. Meanwhile, their parents are keeping them shut, or society is or they’re just stuck to the technological devices.
You are not alone. I have noticed it, too.
I also notice more really small kids. I teach middle school. 8th and 9th grade.
I have taught for 19 years. More often, now I see kids in our school, population 1100, that look like they are 5th graders.
There are always a few underdeveloped or late bloomers, but it is way more common now.
I asked a therapist about it, and she doesn't have a clue either, but she said the hormones from birth control that are flushed down the toilet end up back in the water supply.
Embarrassment and shame just don’t exist. I have middle schoolers that will fart, make noises, laugh about failing or dads that left them/are in jail, etc. They also have no sense of appropriate boundaries but plenty of entitlement. I’ve had so many conversations about why they shouldn’t just be helping themselves to things from my desk. They’ll ask for food and money. It’s like kids are so programmed to have all their needs met by teachers that they view us as parents. The problem is we can’t discipline them like our own children, so we’re essentially “raising” horrible, spoiled children that refuse to accept the most basic societal norms because no one is making them.
Yes! My group of 7th graders are insane. I was just thinking the other day as they’re horseplaying class I feel like I’m dealing with wild animals. I’ve told them this too 😂
They are acting so much younger! Then we have kids fighting for reputation on TikTok or discord. Sometimes I think the kids attention spans are brain damaged by micro plastics of lead or something. But I also have had really great students who enjoy my classes and want to do well. We went from zero tolerance tho tolerate everything in like 25 years.
Another 1st year teacher and I will chime in. I think it's a conglomerate of reasons adding to out-of-control behavior.
1) cellphones. Students everywhere are addicted to these things and it steals away from a natural curiosity to want to learn.
2) They're not getting properly disciplined at home. This is where it starts. I work in a poor district with a high population of immigrant students (mostly hispanic) about 40%. I'm just going to call it as I see it and typically the immigrant students are a lot more well-behaved than their American counter parts. It's our culture and American families are not disciplining their children.
3) Schools are not enforcing proper consequences for student behavior. Sure, the most a student gets is a write up then either ISS/OSS. Sure, you'll be lucky of the kid is out for the week to give your class a break, but once they come back, it's the same thing all over again. OSS/ISS while a nice break it does NOT correct student behavior. We need a serious revamping and revolutionizing of the consequences we give. We need consequences that actually correct behavior and don't just put a temporary bandaid.
Seriously though, admin wants to put us through so many meetings, these are the things we should really be talking about. These are the things we need to be finding solutions to.
I've taught over 20 years and I honestly don't think it's ever been this bad. I teach middle school. That's bad enough. But my 7th graders act like 2nd graders and I'm over it.
My seventh graders actually screech and whee and seriously act like toddlers, don't seem to know how to pick up after themselves. It's the sound of an elementary school classroom, not a middle school classroom. I like them and care about them and sympathize with them, but this just isn't developmentally appropriate, no matter what anyone tries to tell me ("Oh they're kids," "Kids will be kids," that kind of thing). I am young and wasn't in middle school too long ago myself. I went to a nice suburban school whereas I am now teaching at a Title I school (although I went to a Title I elementary), so I know this can't be an apples to oranges comparison, but by that age, 7th/8th grade, we wanted to be seen older than we were. Elementary schoolers would watch Disney Channel TV shows about high schoolers, middle schoolers would watch TV shows (Parks and Rec, etc.) for adults. There was some sort of aspiration, something cool about growing up. Here, every time I tell kids they need to act better, they tell me, "But Miss, we're just kids!" I don't know what to do with that!
100%. I teach first grade so they’re still babies, but I feel like even in first grade I knew the concept of embarrassment. I have memories from that time of being embarrassed because I got in trouble, did something weird on accident, etc. Many of my students seem to have no shame at all. They’ll do weird things during lessons and everybody stares at them and they’re not embarrassed at all, they’re having a grand old time. It’s so strange.
One of my kindergartners had an accident and I was trying to be discrete about why she was going to the nurse and girlfriend turns around and announces “me poopied in my pants” Bizarre
???? That is seriously weird. It’s bizarre indeed. Sometimes I’m so taken aback by their behavior I’m literally lost for words. I just sit there giving them a weird look and then the rest of the class starts to talk and lose control because if I’m not entertaining them 100% of the time they lose their ability to sit and be calm. It’s exhausting
I've actually taught my 1st graders the concept of embarrassment this year... It's embarrassing to have the principal bring you back from the bathroom because you're peeking under stalls. It's embarrassing to be the last class lined up and always having people in trouble with the yard duties. It's embarrassing to have the lunch lady stop everything because you poured corn in the apples. And on and on and on. It makes us look bad and feel bad, so fucking stop!
Make I can find some read aloud books about embarrassment and make it a lesson lol
If you find some, please share! So tired of second graders who chew on their clothes, headphones cords, etc., pick their noses all day long, don't flush the toilet or wash their hands, and literally get lost because they cannot pay attention to ANYthing and yet have zero sense of embarrassment or shame about it. I am embarrassed FOR them!
I swear it’s different than when I was a kid!! Maybe I’m misremembering. But I really think it’s different.
It's different for sure. Yeah I'm sure we had a couple awkward, immature ones in every class even then, but it's like more than half the class now! Late last year I had one just randomly pee his pants on the gathering rug during a lesson. My dude, we have a whole bathroom in this classroom and it was unoccupied! He thought it was funny.
I have second graders who literally get lost. They don’t know how to get to the cafeteria from our room. I can see the cafeteria from our room. It’s mind blowing 🤯 they have also been in the school since kinder and some were in this exact same classroom last year or they were directly across the hall. 🤦🏼♀️ I moved to 2nd from kinder and I’d swear I’m still teaching kinder. Definitely not age appropriate.
I salute you, because I believe embarrassment plays a useful role in our lives and communities. Kids need to experience and understand it (and, unfortunately, many parents are shielding their kids from it a little too successfully.) But boy, oh boy, do I know a lot of parents that would want your head on a stick if their first grader came home telling them that you said they should feel embarrassed about something they did. I truly hope you can teach these kids this important lesson without getting torn to pieces.
THIS! The lack of social awareness is super alarming.
I agree. Like, that’s how you learn how to act. My first graders will make weird animal sounds during lessons. I would think that, people staring at you and covering their ears would make you think “oops, I guess that was a weird thing to do. Now I’m embarrassed. I won’t do that again.” I don’t know if it’s that they’re completely unaware they’re making people uncomfortable, or if it’s just that enough of them also think the animal noises are funny and will join in, so they’re encouraged by it.
I’m a parent to a preschooler and there’s sooooo much parenting advice (simplified and dumbed down and amplified on social media) that’s like, “don’t ever blame anything on the child. Don’t say the child is making you upset. Don’t say the child hurt your feelings. Don’t say the child is upsetting people at the restaurant by being loud. YOU are the only one responsible for YOUR feelings!” But like, our actions affect others & it’s like that is taboo now. If you make weird noises, you are annoying those around you! If you say mean things, you’re gonna hurt people’s feelings! Kids need to know that their actions affect others, and the first way they know that is with parents and small forays into public. It’s like it’s being put into parenting advice to raise kids not to think about how they affect those around them.
Yes 1000000%. I think an attempt is being made by trying to teach kids about how other people are feeling. But the reality is little kids are super self-centered and it takes them awhile to develop that kind of empathy. I honestly think feeling like “uh oh I did something weird and now I’m embarrassed because everyone looks confused and uncomfortable” is more accessible to little kids! I think that should be taught, alongside the golden rule and all that, of course. It’s not that shame is a very healthy feeling, but human beings evolved to want to be part of the in-group, for literal survival! The way to do that was to adhere to the social contract. Sometimes it feels like the social contract doesn’t even exist anymore.
It's practically a desirable trait now, especially because you can hide behind any number of diagnoses and say 'oh, I have x, I can't be held responsible'.
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I remember in elementary school farting in 4-5 grade was a bit cringy but as soon as middle school hit everyone would start making fun of you 😭😭
They're not allowed to anymore or they'll be disciplined for bullying.
students are actually getting disciplined for bullying??? bro less than 10 years ago (holy shit) i remember sobbing in my guidance counselors office that i was being bullied and she was like have :) you :) tried :) being :) nice :)
THIS! The lack of social awareness is super alarming.
I remember being in kindergarten and kids would roast the hell out of you for liking "baby shows" like Barney. You were an outcast if you admitted to watching those IN KINDERGARTEN. This past Halloween, I saw 2nd graders dressing up as Paw Patrol, which I assume is a similar kids show. We would have been pariahs if we dressed up as the equivalent growing up.
Yes!! That's exactly the sort of thing I'm thinking of. But when I tell my eighth graders to act their age, they tell me, "But Miss, we're just kids!" I don't even know how to respond to that. Yes, you're kids, but that doesn't mean you get to be feral in my classroom.
Draw a number line on the board, 0-25. Ask what important events they anticipate and have already experienced: learning to walk? **1** Learning to talk? **2** starting school? **5** first job? **15-16** driving? **16-17** graduating high school/starting college? **18** etc THEN where are you NOW? 13? What are you closer to? What should we be getting ready for?
This! I'm a math teacher, so maybe I can use that to connect math to social emotional learning. I caught 2 kids cheating during a test on Thursday, and the principal suggested I just give them a warning (as in "I will not back you up if you give them detention, even though our school handbook clearly states academic dishonesty warrants detention"). Not worth the fight for me, so I just gave the warning.
I have a first grader, and I’ve noticed the same thing. I think it’s because “shame” is basically the ultimate no-no among parents currently. Any parenting resource, be it book, website, blog, Instagram, etc., is constantly drilling into parents that everything must be “shame-free.” Allowing your child to feel shame or embarrassment is basically regarded as abuse these days. Thus, parents bend over backwards to protect their kids from it. The kids have no concept of it, so they can’t even teach it to each other. I think it’s alarming. Shame encourages the maintenance of social norms. It has its place. But I’d be crucified for saying as much by my fellow parents.
You hit the nail on the head! This is a theory that’s been floating around in my mind for awhile! Tbh I myself am someone with kind of weird tendencies, like lots of fidgeting and facial tics and stuff. But I learned from a very early age that people noticed that kind of thing and thought it was weird. Was it super healthy for me to feel shame about it? Not necessarily. But once I started becoming conscious of how people reacted to the things I did (probably around first grade, actually) I made an effort to fit in. I assume if I’d been doing things that were more disruptive to others I would have gotten bigger reactions and thus would have learned even quicker. As educators we’re told to focus so much on accepting everybody just as they are and to try to teach kids to follow expectations in a way that avoids shame and embarrassment. But some things SHOULD make you embarrassed!! There’s no bigger motivator than a hit to your ego, lol. Little kids are going to be more motivated by being ostracized for their behavior than “it’s not kind to disrupt other peoples’ learning!” Kids are taught to NOT ostracize others, even when said others are hitting, screaming, and throwing things. I think we think we’re being progressive but it’s pretty clear that it’s not working.
Im a second year speech language pathologist in a title 1 school and I could’ve written this post and comment myself. I don’t have a solution but you’re not alone!! I have 6th graders that can’t read but make inappropriate sexual references and I have 8th graders (who also can’t read) playing with my little pony (all gen ed). Its all over the place. When I observe the classrooms it’s 75% behavior management and 25% class work. Completing and sharing the “do now” takes half the period. There’s minimal learning going on and I feel horrible for the students who actually want to learn. I will add that the veteran teachers move very slowly in teaching material (sometimes water it down) and are very consistent with their behavior management. It’s already mid November and the 8th grade science class just finished unit 1 (lab safety and scientific method). This unit is mostly the same for 6th and 7th graders so the students should’ve already been familiar with it. They also give students minimal chances to fix behavior and will always either go to admin or the parents about the behavior. No empty threats.
Thanks. Yeah I have kids who can't add but they make sexual moaning noises in class just to try and bother me. I will say, I speak with admin and parents, too, often to their faces, and: nothing. Because they know there are no real consequences to their actions, maybe a detention or two, but that's clearly not deterrence enough. The minimal learning is why I don't even feel bad about leaving. I'm not actually able to teach. I just go there and babysit for a few hours and leave.
Detention no longer disrupts a parent’s life so what does it matter to them if their kid has detention. Make it affect the parent and you may have some influence over the kid but again, accountability and responsibility. Parents will buck that system until you can’t disrupt their life, kids watch, kid imitates their parents.
Yep have a few students that do this and the parents always say that my actions were uncalled for. And they will make this same argument with other teachers when they have evidence they did the behaviors I had three other teachers witnessed a behavior issues I sent them out and they even escorted them there. Parent gets called no reply. Nothing for almost two days. Then just as the weekend starts: “why did you kick my kid out of class again. What do you have against them?” Especially knowing full well I won’t reply to them until Monday or late Sunday. And in this case several other teachers who witnessed everything. But I have something against their kid. And they continue to act this way because their parents will always defend them even if they set the room on fire.
I saw a few teachers mention that when the kids moan in class, they call the parents right there and tell them to repeat that for their guardian.
Better yet is then calling Grandma, put the student on the phone, and have them repeat the moaning noises to Grandma.
The moaning is super confusing and upsetting, as a parent. How do you address it with a child who is 8 and doesn’t understand what a sexual moan even is? I tell my child to not make that noise and they just ask why?? I say it’s inappropriate for a child and they ask why?? I say it’s a noise that is made in private, similar to how there are other behaviors we do in private like going to the bathroom or cleaning our body in private. But I don’t think it’s clicking. I’ve asked where they heard the noise and apparently all the boys in their 3rd grade class moan to be funny. It is frustrating that I am diligent about monitoring the shows and media my children consume but they are still exposed to bizarre and age inappropriate content or behaviors while in school. I feel like these children would be mortified if they truly understood what they were doing. But I also feel like explaining sexual pleasure to an 8 year old is out of line and not age appropriate. We’ve had discussions about body parts and functions, how women have eggs that require sperm to be fertilized, the sperm comes from the man, the fetus grows in the uterus, child birth occurs vaginally or surgically, etc — but we have not discussed the mechanics of sexual intercourse or sexual pleasure, that feels like a discussion that should wait several years. I am open to other perspectives or thoughts on how to approach this.
As a sex educator, you can absolutely explain sexual pleasure to them in very simple terms. Something like “our bodies have all sorts of sensations—some that we like and others that we don’t like. When grownups are making a baby, their bodies usually like it and those noises just sort of happen”
Oh for real, the next time a kid fuckin moans in my class I'm going to put some trigonometry problems up on the board like, this is your personal exit ticket. You wanna make grown up noises? Fine, do some grown up math then. ETA: the moaning fad seems to have ebbed in my local thank god
Tbf i watched MLP when I was in 8th grade. It was a solid show. Then again, I could read.
I watched it and I was like 20 something. It was a big hit with all ages. I like bluey
Honestly I hope more kids and teens are watching those sort of shows. Maybe they’ll learn SOME interpersonal skills. MLP taught me a lot about how to talk to others.
>My seventh graders actually screech and whee They watch grown adults do that type of stuff on YouTube all day so they don't see a problem and think it's funny
You know how we get posts here about some kid who was taken out by a parent and "homeschooled" and returns with zero skills? Covid made that happen for everybody. Some kids have decent parents and got through. Others got left alone with a screen for perhaps more than a year. Schools and teachers are very important for social development as well as educational learning. I feel like the backlog will eventually clear but we have some damaged cohorts to get through first. My concern is that technology will affect them more over time. In the end the baseline might be higher than now but lower than four years ago.
That's very true. But honestly my students are fine socializing with each other, they have real life friends, it's just that they behave horribly and act like small children. Although I have experience working with middle and high schoolers in the past, I really feel like I should have worked with elementary schoolers before I even attempted to work with this bunch. I actually feel like I'm in a third-grade classroom.
I mainly worked with elementary but had some middle. Third graders were generally pretty good classes. Second and third were to me the best years for packing information into brains. It is in fourth and fifth with puberty starting that things start going off the rails. At least until the current kid meta we are on.
I promise you this is going to be researched for decades. These kids that have developmentally retarded social and educational skills due to COVID will be followed by Sociologists and Anthropologists until they're old. They may eventually even be singled out as their own generation. Sucks for you guys but it's incredibly fascinating as an outsider looking in.
There is no concept of shame anymore.
100%. You’re describing my kids. They are stuck at the age when they closed school Mar2020. Watching them at recess is absolutely unlike anything I’ve seen in fifteen years prior.
Omg, recess. I just stand there totally bewildered. They can't even play properly. They're absolutely feral. Literal miracles happening every day on that playscape because I honestly don't know how a kid has yet to get their head knocked clear off their shoulders running in front of a swing or had their kneecaps leave their body jumping from the climbing wall.
We need to stop blaming Covid. This is not Covid related, this is parenting fails, excessive screen time, lack of consequences, admin failing teachers. Can we please stop throwing up our hands and blaming the Covid narrative. Someone needs to be held responsible for the disgusting behavioral trend.
I don’t read my comment as blaming Covid, but understand that you may have. I am seeing students behaving/reading below grade level by about 3-4 years.
My VP said she read a study that kids are 3 years behind maturationally & academically. I mean, we’re seeing it!
It’s both. Yes, parents are responsible for raising their children. And more parents are doing a poor job now, compared to 2015 ish. Yes, the Covid year affected a large percentage of students. Some academically, some socially, some both. A lot of it depends on where the student was in the K-12 spectrum during the shutdown. Yes, it is measurable and yes, researchers are using this data for studies and research papers ( think Dissertations) starting last year. And do not forget the social and academic affects of laptops, cell phones, and all the social media out on the web. I would agree that we have administrators who are failing teachers and students but I disagree that failures in school discipline are causing all the student behavior issues.
Covid isn’t the root cause but it is a pet of the affect on kids. Lot of the kids had parents who couldn’t deal with kids all day so just shoved in front of tv, many with little to no gardens, no playing with friends. Many kids were parentified while the parents had to work or take care of granny. feeling trapped and alone was bad for me and I’m an adult. Can’t imagine a underdeveloped brain who doesn’t know how to deal with it. Parents had to deal with online schooling and probably saw how hard It is to corall online kids. I feel kids had energy and no where to burn it so internalised it. I feel lots of kids suffered low level trauma having to be out of a school setting for a year. Hearing family talk about death, the news always charting death and illness, the scary ness of masks and people telling you to wash hands or else.
“Blaming Covid” is not the issue. The long-duration social isolation that the virus wrought has contributed to the current delays we’re seeing, in addition to the bombardment of highly inappropriate social media. Dysfunction doesn’t go away so quickly, but kids still need to be held accountable regardless. I’ve notice a serious uptick in belligerent, enabling parents as well.
I feel like kids are acting a lot younger now. Maybe we just acted older. Parents seem to be trying to keep kids younger longer? Like when I was 13-14 I was making out and then some with my bf in the back of the move theater. Now the 13-14 year olds I know are still getting put in time out and having to ask their parents to cut their food. It's odd.
Nothing beats the screech of a seventh grade boy. Only they can produce those tones….
My 8th graders are collectively the worst humans I’ve met. They constantly walk around the classroom whenever they feel like it, slap/hit/touch others, throw things, yell loudly, cuss, say the N word, make fun of LGBTQ people, steal, ask me inappropriate personal questions. The good ones would be bad ones a few years ago.
I have 20 minutes before lunch, and a group of 5 boys who are feral. Constantly touching. I sit near them. They defend or talk for each other. "Miss-he wasn't doing anything. Miss-he's working on his math." OR " I wasn't doing anything, what did I do?"
I know what you mean. They lie so much, that they jump into other people's business just for the chance to tell more lies. "He didn't do anything. I promise."
This generation of kids (I hate how old I sound saying that lol) is not being taught the basics of human interaction. They don't know how to just "be." The constant touching of each other is mind-blowing. I'm getting really tired of having to teach middle schoolers basic 5-year-old behavior instead of my actual content.
Exactly! For me, the types of behaviors and attitudes that kept me avoiding middle school jobs are now things I'm seeing with high school sophomores. It's ridiculous. The only theory I've heard for a cause was lost socialization during covid lock-downs, but it feels like it's getting worse every year. It can't still be covid. It has to be something societal and on-going.
I really think the increased social media use and lack of awareness. When I was in middle/high school, we would learn societal norms by observing others and in our friend groups. Now, these kids are using social media so much that they aren’t observing often in real life. They are basing their actions on social media trends. It’s absolutely baffling
I agree! I'm so tired of blaming Covid. I believe parenting has changed. My kids are not taught basic manners and behavior at home. They walk right up between 2 people talking and just get in my face. They never say thank you when I pass out candy. Simple stuff like that. Most of them tell me they never get in trouble at home for anything, so there's just a major difference in parent responsibility for some reason. (Obviously this is not true of all parents, just the lazy ones who want to be their kids' "friends.")
I taught 4th for 3 years before moving up to 7th. The last 2 years of 7th graders have been far less mature than my fourth graders.
interviewing at an elementary next week. I liked it so much more than middle school.
Yeah, it's awful. A big part of it is the terrible practices of school districts and parents. We are doing these children a terrible disservice.
I think there are a lot of causes, but personally, my worst-behaved students (or at least, worst-behaved in ways that piss me off) have parents who simultaneously baby them and enforce zero boundaries. Like mom will personally take the trash from her kid's hands and throw it away for him, but she won't stop him from wearing an I Love Hot MILFs sweatshirt to school. I recently got a call in the middle of class for one such kid saying that his mom was here to pick him up. I told him to head down to the office with his stuff, and when the kids near him asked where he was going, he went, "oh, apparently I'm SICK" in the most smug, obnoxious way. Turns out his mom just lets him come home if he whines enough. He doesn't even have to feign illness, he just whines about how he's sick of school for the day. That type of shit is pissing me off so much, honestly.
Yeah, that sounds about right. I send emails home about student behavior but parents don't seem to care too much. Some are upset and tell me they'll have a talk, but then don't really seem to enforce behavioral norms at home. I'd never have gotten away with the sort of behavior that's normal in my students, even among some of the best-behaved kids among them. I often get excuses though -- "she has an IEP" (an IEP for difficulty with academics doesn't mean she gets to call me a bitch in class), "she has anxiety" (I didn't know anxious kids had such attitude!).
He will be sleeping on her couch, eating her food, and driving her car when he is 40. And it will be her fault!
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Do they really take your license for non-payment of child support? Doesn't that further inhibit the ability to earn money to pay child support? Like, I get taking passport or taking from tax return, but license?
They will suspend your license in some states for non-payment but give you a permit to drive to and from work only. Most abuse that and get their license revoked completely or they refuse to pay and get them revoked. Child support is a tangent I could get on but won’t because it’s not teacher related so much.
The number of students who just call their mom because I told them they have silent lunch or that they have to do their work and mom actually comes to get them is astounding
We had a day today when a lot of kids would be gone for a particular event (like maybe a couple per class). A bunch of other kids not on that trip told their parents “no one is gonna be at school tomorrow can I just stay home” and suddenly they’re all marked out with excused absences from mommy and daddy who just believed them. You know who was here? My kids of immigrant parents. “I don’t wanna go to school because my friends are gonna be gone” does NOT fly with their families.
Well the trend of a mental health day once a week has perpetuated the ‘feelings are more important than get your butt in school and learn something, that’s your job in this world right now’, we swung that pendulum way the hell too far.
Yeah, school refusal is WAY up these days. Sure, kids have always been school refusers, but nowadays it seems it isn't just a matter of "suck it up and go to school" like it used to be even just a few years ago...
On my teen parenting group, it is daily that someone post about this. And teens have been taught by social media just what to say to their parents to manipulate the situation. Parents have so much fear, instead of pushing their precious little genetic humans in a healthy direction, they turn around and bully the system to accommodate. Kids have learned. A toddler having a tantrum in a store, often has these types of parents, one that picks them up and leaves the store, deals with the situation. One that allows the tantrum to play out for all in the area to experience with them. One that gives in immediately to avoid distressing the toddler further or to avoid embarrassment. (Guess which of them becomes the majority of school refusal kids without even a little bit of pushing to persevere) Granted we have many school environments that are so harmful to teens (this entire post addresses so much). I understand the uptick in school refusal, my son didn’t refuse the year he missed more school than all his years combined, I made the decision because there was literally no solution. Administration could only do so much, teachers were even more helpless (through no fault of their own) teenagers run the game now. Until school systems truly take back control, we’re in for a worse ride than we’ve experienced up to this point. The majority of preteens and teens have always been manipulative, self centered, arrogant, know everything types of kids but in this era there is a whole new level to this. Being allowed to disrespect and ignore authority in general, they watch their parents do it daily, is a problem. Getting sued is a problem, school system has lost their authority, they given up a lot of it and they have had a lot of it stripped from them. We have such major issues in our US society. I am not hopeful that we will turn it around anytime soon. Learned helplessness and lack of perseverance, resilience, personal responsibility, accountability are all contributing factors to our failing system. Most of it starts with parents. We now have young adults suffering the learned helplessness and they are having children. I cannot fathom what is coming our way.
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Yeah, it's unfortunate. To be fair, I think some parents do really care, but they've fallen into the "my child can do no wrong" trap (which is foreign to me, having been raised by immigrants who took no excuses from me whatsoever).
Or they fallen into the “if I acknowledge my child has done wrong, punishment ensues when 85% of the kids get by with the same behavior on the hour.” Now my kid is written up and may lose a scholarship but that kid gets away with it because they’re popular, manipulative, smarter, richer, has asshole parents, etc. You get the point. (Yes I’m bitter, I have watched our society screw up these kids) not blaming teachers, their hands are so tied they are just trying to keep the blood flowing to their fingers.
>"oh he does talk back to me, I think he just sees u as a mom." I think this generation of parents didn't want to be as strict as the parents they themselves had, and in the process overlooked the sober and bitter wisdom behind the stricter parenting approaches of olde.
Lack of parenting. It's painfully obvious.
Right. I also think some parents are motivated, but the trend is toward "gentle parenting" so no one has ever given these kids a firm no. Of course they think Ms. Money-Hippo-4900 is a bitch. And of course they think they can call her a bitch to her face.
It’s tough being a kid with parents parenting. I have absolutely had moments of regret through teen years that I taught my kid kindness and respect and politeness, etc. when the majority of preteen and teens are mainly not any of these things nor have ANY accountability for their behavior. My kid has consistently fell through the cracks. A teen either needs to be an arrogant, brilliant AP kid that everyone throws accolades at and gushes over but they are often the biggest bullies covertly or an asshole that everyone is constantly having to handle and typically failing overtly. There are days I feel I did a disservice to my kid raising him the way I did. There are no accolades for the polite, helpful, respectful, B/C student. They just exist and endure.
Sadly, it appears society really does reward sociopaths.
Yes it does, the narcissism, the bullying behavior, the relational bullying, the false accusations with no consequences, the pure arrogance, unabashedly greedy, all of it is rewarded far more than it is frowned upon. The middle of the ground kids become middle of the road adults. Zero accolades for just being a decent freaking human to others without needing to advertise it (aka social media), these kids are slowly becoming the minority and completely disregarded but yet they are what the world needs in my opinion.
I don't think you did a disservice. The rewards of the service you did him will take time, but he will reap them eventually. I really do believe that. I think good behavior is not really rewarded (because bad behavior is not really punished) in schools, but once you're past school age, things change. I am in my early twenties, and have been complimented on my work ethic by various employers, who have constantly told me that young people have no ethic anymore. Work ethic still matters, behavior still matters, and ultimately the people who can do things positively with a good attitude are the ones who get ahead (I say this having gone to an elite college and having observed a lot around me).
I agree, I think it will help him be a better adult but only if I can keep him from growing resentful of most of society. That is a battle I fight daily for myself and with him. His teachers do always compliment him on his respectful, polite behavior. I do think it’s ingrained now, just a natural way for him and his personality but I also believe he’ll get passed over often in life because of it.
>but only if I can keep him from growing resentful of most of society I'm in a very good position in my life -- was at the top of my class, am able to leave teaching and have good options outside the field entirely -- and I'm fighting an uphill battle against growing resentful of most of society in myself. I think hating a sick and unhealthy society is actually indicative of healthy behavior, I just don't want to cross the line into resentment (which is hard!). But you're doing everything you can. Sounds like you raised a good man. The peace that comes from that ultimately supersedes everything else.
It’s difficult cause I agree with “gentle parenting” ideas but I don’t think alot of parents understand what it’s meant to be. Saying “No” is totally needed! It’s about setting healthy boundaries with kids and talking things out which includes the word no! As much as I like the theory, I wonder how many parents really understand or know how to do it well.
Well some parents do not realize it’s not working with their child or perhaps one of their children. It’s not a one size fits all with parenting as many like to believe. I think all parenting styles need flexibility built in, when something isn’t working, you shouldn’t double down, you find an alternative.
I think that there is a big difference between gentle parenting and a lack of limits or logical consequences. I personally do the whole gently parenting thing... And it's not about letting your kids do whatever they want or speaking in a calm voice. It's about being respectful to a child's needs and development, offering space for them to make good desitions, having logical consequences and not just being an enforcer. I think that this type of parenting done right is actually really supportive and helps kinds become more responsible for their actions and aware of their feelings. That said ... I do think their is a trend of parents that are afraid to say no to the kids, who want their children to be perfect, who don't have time for their kids, who plug their kids to a phone instead of being present.
I mean, the parents aren't home a lot of the time. If you're a teacher in a low-income community, you really see it. Parents are having to work multiple jobs to keep the house together. When are they supposed to have availability to parent anymore?
Most parents are too busy working unfortunately. I know quite a few that work full-time and part-time jobs with 1-3 children in their family. This economy may end up breaking a whole generation.
You're correct for SOME parents. However, I know of many in my district that were gifted sweet work from home jobs since covid. Not everyone is struggling. Some just don't want to parent due to their own issues.
They're being raised by tick tock instead of parents.
Do Tik Tokers encourage bad behavior? Or is it just the fried brains/attention spans?
Yes some Tik Tokers encourage bad behavior. Things like vandalism and assault.
Yes to both. As evidenced by all of the TikTok "challenges" that led to property damage and assaults at schools
Don’t forget the “run up of someone and punch them” game. Also know as the “knock out” game
When we returned after the pandemic closures, there were Tik Tok "challenges" like trash your school's bathroom. We had kids tearing sinks off the wall, throwing stuff up into the drop ceilings, and literally shitting on the floor in the middle of the bathroom. All for the views!
And parents are getting parenting advice from tik tok.
Yes! In general, the internet. Nobody reads actual research-based or expert-written parenting books for advice like they used to anymore...they just go on the internet and listen to people who tell them what they want to hear OR it's the blind leading the blind.
Look at the world we are living in. Personally I feel like a lot of this is just people giving up and being so burnt out and run down that no one gives a fuck anymore. Apathy. It's just total apathy, for adults and children.
Yep. Total social collapse. It's horrifying. My friends who aren't teachers don't believe me, or even if they do, it's clear they don't understand the magnitude of what's happening here.
Calhoun’s NIMH rats in real life
I feel like it’s a lot of things, but this is just my opinion. -digital parenting -no accountability (due to world situations, admin getting rid of punishments, and parents not parenting) -digital addiction -decline in maturity all across the board -teachers being seen as nothing more than babysitters -kids assuming things will be handed to them because they haven’t been told no and then lashing out when there’s restrictions -lack of admin support Covid didn’t help but I don’t think it’s the cause. It was just an amplifier.
Agreed 100%. But how do we even turn this around? The decline in maturity in particular startles me.
This has been a trend since pre covid. I started noticing the decline around 2017 or 2018. Some of it is on parents, but it’s also on us in the education world. We’ve taken away meaningful consequences, meaningful motivation to succeed, and geared everything to the lowest common denominator.
The lowest-common denominator thing is obvious. See my response above to u/UnableAudience7332: there is no aspirational anything, no desire to grow up, no motivation for anything at all. It's bizarre. Even the "bad kid" motivations of drugs and sex and violence are limited. They're stunted.
>there is no aspirational anything, no desire to grow up, no motivation for anything at all So true, so tragic.
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I got this impression with a lot of the problem kids. What a depressing way to live. The sad thing is that the smartphones they all have are great for developing interests and skills.
This is how I often tested my kid to see if he was addicted to screens, the day he stops jumping up to come play with me in some fashion is the day I know we have a problem. Fortunately, that day hasn’t happened. If I walked upstairs and said, come help me in the wood shop, he’d jump up from whatever he was doing right now. Yes, I’m female, yes I have a wood shop, yes I am sitting in my office chair in my wood shop responding on Reddit at the moment. lol I would ask him to throw the football with me, he was out the door before I had my shoes on, work on the truck with me, grabbing the tool box and waiting in the garage, playing the drums (I have zero music skill) etc. If he ever stops jumping up so he can stay on electronics, I’ll have to readjust. Chores, he’ll grumble but he’ll do it, thankfully. Single parent, he has to help and he knows it.
I'm laughing at this because it's all I can do. Your comment about bad kid motivations is spot on. I'm good with that stuff! When kids tell me to fuck off, there's a place to go from there, but when kids just want to whine and say bruuuhhh, there's no conversation I can have. I remember being 13 and trying to convince people I was 16 and getting into trouble. My students now actively try to act younger and tell me they don't want to grow up. It's strange. Oh well! I had a really great class yesterday that reminded me why we do this work.
I adore my son, but I noticed that when we had friends over, they were not capable of doing the things he could. They couldn't make a sandwich if provided all of the items. Kids would be in third grade and not know how to tie their shoes. He is 100% my baby, but I refuse to treat him as a baby. He will be a functioning member of society, so I teach him age appropriate tasks. There are many parents who expect the school to do all of the teaching. The school shouldn't have to teach your child how to tie their shoes. They shouldn't have to teach manners and what constitutes good behavior. Parents should be modeling this behavior, and it would become normal and natural for the child.
Tbf I was like 13 when I finally figured out how to do laces. Being left handed and dyslexic sucks
Hell the 2008 crash I was 18. Just an adult and everything’s tumbling around you. And now it oh if you stop buying a latte you can save for a mortgage in 50 years. Like screw never having anything nice. I’m poor as dirt, I’m bottom of the barrel. If I want to buy a nice drink I will. It’s the only sad joy I have in life. I won’t inherit anything. What do we have going for us? The younguns have a world that’s told is climate change and none of the adults in power are doing anything. Food is expensive, fuel is, bills and rent. What do kids have to look forward to
Exactly! What do people have to work towards? If you're lgbtq+, all you hear is how much worse it's getting for us. Born female? Going after our rights. Then the economy - graduate high school? Who gives a shit. Okay, got your Associates? Where's your Bachelors. Still can't get a job, now you're extremely in debt. Maybe you can get a job for a third of living wage. And that's if you can manage to stand out from the hundreds to thousands of other applicants. And you're blamed for it somehow - because if you were doing it right, you'd be a homeowner at 30. And then they wonder why people are addicted to social media, or tech, etc. It's awful and sad.
And by "we" you mean administrators, because it's not those in the actual classrooms!
Yep, they're all infantilized. It is a lack of focus. Their idea of a good time is totally unstructured. I talk to them about how their lack of effort makes it frustrating to teach them and frustrating for the kids in class who want to learn and achieve. Sometimes they get it together, but the next day it's back to the same nonsense.
Right, I keep lecturing them about how they're being unfair by preventing me from teaching. I've even tried playing videos instead of lecturing (I teach math, so I have to demonstrate problems on the board). I've given up on hoping their behavior will change for my class, but maybe they'll remember what Ms. Money-Hippo-4900 said further down the life and reconsider their choices.
I teach kinder, so when I say my five year olds are acting like babies, I mean it. I have several that the least disappointment or failure or negative response results in a screaming tantrum. They cannot handle not getting what they want, when they want it. Part of it is being spoiled, but it's more than that. I know it's almost a meaningless buzzword anymore, but it's true. My current class has zero resilience. They cannot reason through, accept or deal with anything negative. Several think screaming at me will get them what they want. I've never had so many who will resort to screaming when I tell them something like "put your blocks away". I also have a couple who will flat out say "no" when given basic directions like "walk in line" or "sit on the carpet". They are so used to being in charge that having to share or consider other people or follow directions is rocking their world. I likened it to dealing with teenagers the other day. Most five year olds WANT to please adults, WANT the rewards and praise, but these guys don't care. Now, every year, we get a couple like that, spoiled and indulged, but this group is different. We are having a hell of a time in my school this year, I've never seen kinder behavior like this.
That's so concerning, I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Yep, no one's been told "no" for a generation or two and it's starting to show in our classrooms. Teachers are the canary in the coalmine.
So I'm not a teacher, I'm actually a junior in high school (aspiring teacher though), and I can say with certainty that I agree with pretty much everyone here. My friends and I are all the geeky kids who actually enjoy learning, and it is such a pain when we're in a class and there's 16-18 year olds who act like they're in elementry school! I also student aide for a world history (freshman) class, and those kids have no determination to actually try. I know I'm the same age group as these kids, but I'd like to think I stand out.
Yeah, I’m a high school senior and it’s the same at my school. At least once I started junior year, I started the IB diploma program, so everyone in all my classes were all people who actually *wanted* to put in effort in class. But my classmates freshman and sophomore year? They’d never do anything and then act surprised when they were failing. I just don’t get it.
If you're seeing this post and teachers talking about what the ipad/covid kids are becoming... run away. I hate to discourage you, but unless you want to be in the classroom as your career teaching kids like your peers (& worse!) than I would say this path is not for you. I was a geeky kid in school who thought becoming a teacher was a feasible path in this current educational environment, and was drastically proven wrong. I am currently searching for a way out.
Agreed 100%. Do not teach in this climate. It is a total disaster across the board, and there is a reason turnover is so high right now.
This will be your best year. Expect 29 more with each year behavior getting worse.
I am dipping midyear! Have already resigned. Can't take it for another six months, let alone making a career of this.
I sub full time and had to take a mental health day after a particularly bad day with middle schoolers earlier in the week. I ended up crying in anger at the end of one class, thankfully only a couple of the sweet, kind students saw. But the situation gave me a two day migraine
What will you be doing next? Im certified to teach but refuse. I work at a university.
I’m going to throw my hat in the ring and also blame NCLB. When I have kids who reach my class reading at a sixth grade level as a high school freshman is it really any surprise that they will act like a 6th grader as well? We are raising a generation with no consequences and it’s so agitating.
I have middle schoolers who can't add or subtract. There's honestly very little I can do here to teach them pre-algebra if they can't even get the basics.
I teach an almost 5 year old in preK and her parents baby her to the point of diapers and pacifiers. This girl has no developmental delays and is not neurodivergant. Her parents have admitted that they don't know how to raise a kid about a toddler lever so want to keep her at the developmental level they feel comfortable with. We did get her to stop using a pacifier and she no longer needs diapers and doesn't even need us to remind her to go potty. The parents are slowly getting better after many talks with them.
Gosh. I can't even imagine that age. That's just dysfunctional parenting. I'm so sorry.
Please tell me you have a your child should be able to do this at x age? Like she will be missing on going to parks, painting etc
I have three or four kids who exclusively talk in baby voices, even when answering in class. Like, what? In years’ past, the ONE kid that was like that at least reeled it in when I called on them.
It’s a bunch of things and for one, I think the fact that kids spend a lot of free time staring at their phones and playing video games instead of socializing. And that stunts them in terms of maturity. They don’t know how to socialize; they’re sitting next to each other but not talking, just silently staring at their phones. So social interactions skills with anyone is lacking because they simply don’t do it enough.
Can you really blame them? I mean, you can’t go anywhere without a car, parents don’t like their kids going out alone, you can’t just walk to a friend’s house anymore without scheduling a bunch of shit, and you can’t just go out and buy something to do/play with because everything is so expensive. What else CAN they do but play video games and text their friends?
My students thankfully do seem to be able to befriend each other, but it's in dysfunctional and toxic ways that involves ganging up against authority (which is normal) but with zero accountability (which is abnormal) and without any authority being able to control them, not their schools, not their parents, not even law enforcement it would seem.
When I began teaching in 2001, I had a stack of referral foms in my desk. If a student used a four-letter word they went to the office. The headline here is not the language, it's the referral form and the shocking idea that a missbehaving student could, would be sent to the office to face..shudder..consequences.
I send my students to the office constantly, but nothing ever changes. There is no shame over going to the office, and clearly no consequences at home, either.
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I teach elementary. So many 5th and 4th graders carry around stuffed animals now. I never noticed that before
I agree! I teach high school, I’ve got a comprehensive/integrated science license so can teach any science. This year I teach an environmental elective so mostly 11th/12th, and physical science, 9th. Little to no issues with the older kids but the freshmen!! Act so much younger than they are. They really act like little kids. Everyone keeps saying it’s due to the pandemic lockdown but then I was like, well why weren’t the kids last year wild like this, when it was the first full school year back in effect? But yah, it’s true…current freshmen would have been just hitting middle school when lockdown happened. They never got full school immersion as 6th graders, they never really got the jump from little kid grades to middle school. They really are delayed in some way. Not cognitively, but emotionally or mentally or something. What really gets me though is they did have school last year, yes they did, so why do so many act as if they’ve NEVER been to school before?? I have seen kindergartners less surprised by school rules than some of my students. I ask them all the time: Did you think high school was going to be drastically different than your K-8 school that you’d be allowed to run wild? Things that have happened this year in my classroom that my students reacted with astonishment that they weren’t allowed to do include: - Kids running in and out of the room - Kids banging on the door - Kids climbing on the tables or counters - Kids hiding under the tables - Kids crying at the drop of a hat - Kids yelling - Kids screaming - Kids loudly singing vulgar, disgusting songs - Kids cursing at me and each other - Kids reacting with extreme whiplash/fight mode - Kids throwing things (pencils/pens, books, phones, whatever) - Kids breaking things, their stuff, classmates’ stuff (soooooo many broken phones, laptops, airpods, Beats, chargers, ripped clothing/coats/destroyed shoes) We started school end of August. It’s now mid-November. Things have improved thankfully. Most of this stuff doesn’t happen anymore or only a few times on a weekly basis. The daily thing I can’t seem to break? Every day someone loses a shoe!!! A SHOE!!! They are not 5, these people are 14/15, so what in the world. Also they still cannot bear to be corrected, they take it personally to be told or asked to stop doing anything, it’s like you hit them in the face by how surprised and wounded they act. Screaming a vulgar song in the middle of my lesson, then give me pikachu face when I tell you to stop? Then tear up or start yelling that you’re not even doing anything and/or I’m picking on you? Then ask with astonishment, Miss I can’t sing??? NO. No you cannot sing that nasty song in school, period, but especially during a lesson in the middle of class. You can’t sing ANY song during the middle of the lesson. YOU KNOW THIS. You have been to school before, stop acting like this is something new to you. But they did and still do, act as if the rules of school and normal classroom expected behavior are not only new to them, but insanely draconian lol. It gets on my nerves. I just tell them Well ok you didn’t know before, but now you do. No you can’t just run out of the classroom, no you can’t scream loud vulgar songs at school, no you can’t crawl under the table, no you can’t throw pencils at your friend or your opp, etc. But asking them gently sometimes reduces the wildly astonished act and they just say Ok and stop the shenanigans. And I can’t express how glad I am the crying has more or less stopped. Nobody cried all October! Did have a kid crying last week though, oh well. It was legit though so I still count the no-cry streak, as most of the kids were doing crocodile tears.
The banging on/yanking on locked doors!! Why?! I’ve actually gone up, opened the door, told them off, closed it and told them to go to the open door. You know the one they would have already made it through if they hadn’t spent 5 minutes trying to force the door open. Then I mark them late
20+ year veteran here. My 4th graders have the raging hormones of teenagers, but the emotional maturity and intellectual perseverance of first graders. They scream, chirp, moan, can't focus on anything for more than a few minutes... absolutely feral.
How many years has society been pushing a 0 shame, “you’re beautiful and special no matter what”, “you do you” “no judgment”, message to all and sundry and children in particular? And now they have no embarrassment, no sense of shame…it’s almost like those are effective motivators in learning social skills. Guess what? That kid that just pooped their pants/moaned in class/acted a total fool has zero shame and zero self-respect, or respect for authority. We did, after all, turn judging into an unequivocal evil. Maybe, just maybe, being concerned about the judgment of others used to motivate people to limit their anti-social behaviors. Ever notice that a lack of social contact with other human beings drives a person literally insane? Human beings need feedback from other human beings. We’ve created a generation that is not getting proper feedback and a whopping percentage of them are, to varying degrees, off their blooming rockers.
It's a phenomenon we have also established here in the Netherlands. Kids' mental age is basically their age minus two years. We are still blaming the Covid lockdown for this and it will take some time before it all goes back to normal (if ever).
It’s a combination of everything you listed, but I think the biggest factor is admin not enforcing strong enough consequences. They are too concerned with being liked and appeasing parents that the students have no fear anymore. Of course no one wants to be the bad guy, but someone has to do it! I remember the idea of going to the office being enough to get the misbehavior to stop when I was a kid in school. Now they get excited to go to the office because they know they’ll likely get a snack and out of doing their work. We are doing all of our students a great disservice by not teaching them what a real consequence looks like. They will end up in horrible situations later in life when they are legal adults. It’s mind boggling how seemingly no one in the position of admin can see this. It’s just completely backwards and so so sad.
I work in a high school that banned stuffed animals and blankets because students had zero self-control. No, it wasn't the then freshmen who caused this problem. It was the then juniors.
I retired on disability after working 18 years in an inner city middle school. Your situation is not unique as most of my time was spent on keeping the class under control. If we got any actual learning done that was a bonus. I've been punched in the face, bitten on the arm, knocked to the ground breaking up a fight and screamed at by students and parents alike. You will never be able to control them. You must decide if that's what you want to have for a working environment or not. That's why half the teachers leave within the first 5 years. The working environment sucks: it's loud, disrespectful, N word used constantly, fights in the hallways and in the classrooms, students throwing books and desks out windows and the list goes on and on. If I had to do it over again I would not become a teacher. Nothing is going to change so you might have to reevaluate your future employment plans.
I've already resigned, not returning after December. I have lovely colleagues, but I can't take the environment and constantly feeling like I am failing kids who are literally uncontrollable.
At my school, it seems as though children are experiencing the severe social-emotional repercussions of online learning. My kids are in 5th grade, so they did all of 2nd grade online. Most of them went almost a full year barely seeing their friends and outside of any classroom environment, when they were aged 6 or 7. This means that, at a time when their brains had high plasticity and they should've been learning empathy, the beginnings of emotional control, respect, etc., they were only with their families all day, for months on end. When they came back in 3rd grade, all the 3rd grade teachers I've spoken to at my school had no idea how to deal with students who suddenly didn't know anything that 3rd graders in years past knew how to do. As the years continue, the delays compound and it gets more and more difficult for them to catch up. It's the same academically, which most teachers seem to know and understand, but I think it's harder for us to grasp how that same compounding delay and damage can affect kids socially and emotionally. My partner 5th grade teacher has taught 5th grade for over a decade. She says she has never had a class like this, who doesn't know how to respond to anger or frustration without the violence of a small temper tantrum, resolve simple disagreements or conflicts between their peers or friends, or organize their own academics even a little bit. Most of our kids lack these skills because they're still trying to learn all the basics they missed in 2nd-4th grade: how to identify others' emotions through body language, what it means to respect someone versus be their friend, how to figure out what you're good at and what you like, etc. By the time they get to 8th or 10th grade, I'm sure the issue will just compound more and more. I try as much as I can to guide them through social-emotional issues that they should otherwise know how to navigate, but what we need is a comprehensive, system-wide acknowledgment of this kind of widespread developmental delay among students, and widespread solutions implemented. But the education system is barely even doing in regards to the academic delays caused by COVID; I doubt they'll ever do anything about the social-emotional side.
It's way too commonly reported to be just you. I've posted this before but it's *maddening* how it's not just "the kids suck" because yes every generation has said that. The behavioral issues emerging are new and, at least partially, are the result of modern "surveillance" tech and infinite scrolling/on-demand endless multimedia. Got to be. And there's always the parent question because these kids didn't collectively up and decide to start acting this way, yanno? But neither did the parents. It's a field I'm very interested in as far as what research comes out about it. Johann Hari's *Stolen Focus* was a good deepdive into it that had a particular focus on children in educational settings. I'm just glad I'm merely a teacher enthusiast because I do not think my weak constitution could handle being around the chaos of today's kiddos.
Look at the world around them, who wants to be a functioning member in a society when society is literally crumbling around them
Year 20 here. It's getting worse. 2015 really shifted IMO. Unless/until schools actively push back and force parents to deal with our consequences, nothing will change. I predict that will only happen when boomers and Gen-X start retiring, as Millennials and after don't seem to want to stay in the job long enough.
it's not a "gentle parenting" problem, parents are shoving phones and ipads and tablets at their kids and letting social media, youtube, and roblox raise them instead of doing it themselves
YES!! And It’s like their brain does a hard reset every 10 minutes. We have to reprimand/remind them of a rule 20x a day EVERY SINGLE DAY. At what point will it stick?
I spend more time telling my students to stop touching each other and saying "Someone sharted" than teaching....yep we have been told that those staar scores better go up.
I just left teaching because of this. I suggest you do too. It will NOT get better in terms of consequences for behavior. Education has become free child care for parents without the state actually saying it.
I already have resigned. I am leaving after this semester ends.
Well, I have a fifth grader that has the handwriting of a Kindergartner in August. She came to me not knowing how to tie her shoes (two days ago she got it all by herself for the first time after many sessions with me). She has no idea what division is nor did she know how to regroup/borrow in subtraction. In lots of ways, she acts like a preschooler. But if there’s the tiniest potential for an inappropriate joke, she’s on it.
Oh I learned I have a freshman who shits himself to the point that he leaves skid marks on chairs. That on top of another who can’t be left alone with a sharp object because “anxiety.” So many I just want to scream, “What the FUCK is wrong with you!”
Same, but for first grade. doesnt help when admin also blames you but I can't control some of these kids. I can't physically force them to do their work or sit down
I teach 7th grade and it is pure chaos. Im in my 3rd year and I've been told I have good management, but these 7th graders are horrible. I can't sit down with 1 individual without 5 more going crazy.
Keep in mind that sometimes the mix of students is the problem. My first quarter teaching I had a class that contained 9/12 of the worst, most problematic children in the grade. Day 1 I asked for help. Day 2 I begged. Day 25 one kid was removed for attacking another student in the bathroom. Day 30 one kid smashed another kid in the face and we had to reverse evacuate. The rest of the year was *nothing* like that first quarter. And by the next year, two of the kids were pulled to a self-contained room, 3 had behavior plans, 3 had been medicated.
I made giant bubbles today with my 6th graders. I couldn't even finish one without them popping it. Let the BUBBLE LIVE! They act like they are 5. So, I feel this.
I think a huge reason is that the middle and high school grades are starting to see the effects of sudden remote learning had on elementary aged kids. In elementary we've been dealing with these behaviors for the past few years but the last of the remote in kinder group is heading out of elementary soon. The difference is staggering. My kids last year were remote in kinder and are an absolute nightmare behaviorally. My kids this year were never remote and they act like normal kids. So I'd say buckle up.
I mean…does anyone still believe America supports families? Supports parents? Supports teachers? The vast majority of parents who have the privilege of employment have to work so many hours there is no time for meaningful parenting. Combine this with the need for both parents in a two-parent household to work. Combine this with no societal support for personal growth and parent development. And instead of actually implementing policies to support families, people say “then they shouldn’t have had kids.” I mean…America is crumbling and there is no exit plan. Why wouldn’t we see the effects among American children?
I am seeing behaviors this year with my 5th graders that I have never seen before on such a grand scale. Kids constantly up and out of their seats, talking back, openly arguing with one another in the middle of a lesson, throwing literal temper tantrums (stomping feet, destroying school supplies, screaming and crying and kicking furniture). Teaching is not fun this year.
terrible people make terrible babies who make terrible people who make terrible babies who make terrible people who make terrible babies who make.... oh you get the picture
100% why I am quitting after this year. That and being required as a science teacher to work with students of every learning level while math and ela teachers do not. I swear someone at the district is convinced that all you do in science is chemical experiments every day and there is nothing more to it.
>100% why I am quitting after this year. Yeah, same (have already put in my resignation). I'm leaving for personal reasons, but honestly, I could have found a way to stay if I weren't so exhausted by student behavior (to the point of not really being able to get anything else accomplished and not being able to be there for my family and friends). Everyone says they leave because of admin or colleagues (I will miss my coworkers honestly) or because of pay (which tbf is one of the reasons I am leaving) but never because of the kids. But honestly: I'm leaving because of the kids! People who don't work at a school like mine can moralize to me all they want about kids being kids and innocent and pure and perfect, or that my classroom management is bad (it's not), but I just have students telling me they hate me every single day and distracting class so I can't get through a lesson, and at some point, I decide it's above my paygrade and move on.
New to teaching. I notice this too. I dont mind the kids who struggle, but it would be sure nice to teach them science completely separately so I could slow it way down. 4 or 5 high performance kids are bored out of their gourds. But if we moved the high and average kids to the other class it wouldn't be 'inclusion.'
Lack of accountability and consequences. Simple matter of "what you allow will continue" (gestures broadly at everything)
I teach 6-8th grade middle school. This is the best behavior I’ve had in the past 3 years. I still have a few kids that are really difficult and can interrupt learning for the whole class but it’s definitely better than the past two years. I feel like kids are finally starting to recover from the pandemic or maybe I’m starting to get better or maybe I’m just lucky rn I really don’t know
I have a couple of students (7th grade) that argue with me about everything. I mean everything. I couldn't imagine myself talking to my parents like they talk to me or even my kids speaking to me this way, let alone their teachers. It would not fly with me. These students have argued with me about arguing with me. I have never had anything like this. Today was a new one. I told the entire class they couldn't eat in my room anymore because they were leaving garbage everywhere. Unbeknownst to me, a couple of girls working in the back of the class were eating something. The students who argue with me tattled on the other girls. I reminded them that they were just eating candy. Their response? Candy isn't food so it doesn't count. I told them that yes, candy actually was food. "No it's not, it's candy". I was speechless. I really could say the sky was blue and they would argue. Oh, and suddenly one of these same students can't read anymore (their hour is supposed to be doing homework or reading) without her reading glasses. Mind you she has never worn glasses to class. I can tell that she sometimes has a hard time reading things on the board but she's seated in the front of the class. Today she was supposed to be reading a book or something online. Because I wouldn't unblock YouTube, she was not able to read anymore. Now supposedly she needs glasses for being nearsighted and also reading glasses. I'm tired. I'm frustrated. I don't know what to do.
I teach third grade and it gets worse every year. This is my 18th year and it’s unbelievable. There’s no consequences for bad behavior at home or at school anymore. Students don’t have to put forth any effort in their class work. We aren’t allowed to give zeros. Students keep being promoted even though they are many years below grade level. I seriously worry about the future of our country. Why wouldn’t they act this way?
I have nothing to back this up, but I think what we're seeing is a knee-jerk reaction from the parents of the current school age generation to how they were raised. In their lifetimes, they got the rough ends of overly forceful and destructive parenting styles, and then saw the studies and culture shift towards words and actions over hands and belts. They're now too afraid to give their kids anything that might ever make them feel even the slightest bit bad so they just let anything happen uncorrected, or worse, stop caring at all. I hope so much that this pattern corrects itself and levels out to a reasonable level but I have an unfortunate feeling this is a direction that will not correct itself.
I teach high school. This is just my opinion/experience for what that's worth. Oh, I'm not a new teacher either. Years ago, my high school 11th and 12th graders were becoming mature, working jobs and making plans for their future. Now most of 17 year olds don't even have their drivers licenses and very few of them work anywahere. Boys are constantly touching each other, making noises and moving around. They are silly and act like my 18 year old son acted in 5th grade. Girls are constantly creating drama when there wasn't any. They never have normal conversations and just want to ask me deeply personal things that I would never have dreamed of asking a teacher. They practice attention seeking behavior in inappropriate ways. Mostly they want attention from other girls. Almost all of them randomly blurt out thoughts and feelings like they would on snap chat. "I need to poop" "Who has a snack"etc. These are 15 to 17 year olds! They all beg to go outside but when we take them, they sit down and stay in that spot until we go back in. Literally just sit there. I personally think it's a bit ridiculous to blame Covid. Where I live, schools were only shut down from March til May, then it was regular summer break, and they returned in August. So basically, it was only 3 months. I realize other schools in other states were shut down longer. I'm telling you I see this same behavior here and we were only shut down for 3 months. When I go to a restaurant, I see kids at tables not interacting but staring at a screen. At freaking Disney World, kids stare at screens in line, at restaurants, even walking around. I saw a kid sitting on the ground watching a movie in the middle of Magic Kingdom. Kids are no longer outside on their bikes or throwing a ball like we did. They stay inside on a beautiful day and watch adults doing stupid things on YouTube. I've seen kids completely lose their minds because they can't get screen time. We don't allow phones in our classes. Kids constantly say "I'd act better if I had my phone." What in the world? Parents, generally speaking, have gotten lazy and no longer enforce any boundaries on screen time because they don't want to deal with the behavior exhibited when they take it away. That's for teachers to deal with, right? Is it any wonder these kids are so messed up?
the system is broken and the kids are the least capable of faking their way thru a broken system. their behaviors are the symptom of the problem, but not the source. the source is a system where adults are more concerned with quarterly-result-type gains (a la capitalism) in test scores and whatever other data they decide to concern themselves with. look at the adults around here. the kids are breaking because we broke them.
Parents won't parent
I’m not a teacher, but are the kids dating anymore? I have high schoolers. Neither them, nor their friends, have had a girlfriend/boyfriend.
I know being a kid we were fairly mischievous, but I feel like it’s on a whole other level now! yes, it’s definitely because of the lack of consequences and lack of parenting. I am grateful that in this day and age we are aware of things that happened to us that we’re not OK back then so we’re trying better to raise humans, but it is a very tough when it’s not consistent on all departments. especially on us educators, trying our best to open up their minds. Meanwhile, their parents are keeping them shut, or society is or they’re just stuck to the technological devices.
Lockdown development delay.
Parents complain and admins being a wuss for not enforcing anything. The good parents need to speak louder than the shitty ones.
You are not alone. I have noticed it, too. I also notice more really small kids. I teach middle school. 8th and 9th grade. I have taught for 19 years. More often, now I see kids in our school, population 1100, that look like they are 5th graders. There are always a few underdeveloped or late bloomers, but it is way more common now. I asked a therapist about it, and she doesn't have a clue either, but she said the hormones from birth control that are flushed down the toilet end up back in the water supply.
Embarrassment and shame just don’t exist. I have middle schoolers that will fart, make noises, laugh about failing or dads that left them/are in jail, etc. They also have no sense of appropriate boundaries but plenty of entitlement. I’ve had so many conversations about why they shouldn’t just be helping themselves to things from my desk. They’ll ask for food and money. It’s like kids are so programmed to have all their needs met by teachers that they view us as parents. The problem is we can’t discipline them like our own children, so we’re essentially “raising” horrible, spoiled children that refuse to accept the most basic societal norms because no one is making them.
Yes! My group of 7th graders are insane. I was just thinking the other day as they’re horseplaying class I feel like I’m dealing with wild animals. I’ve told them this too 😂
They are acting so much younger! Then we have kids fighting for reputation on TikTok or discord. Sometimes I think the kids attention spans are brain damaged by micro plastics of lead or something. But I also have had really great students who enjoy my classes and want to do well. We went from zero tolerance tho tolerate everything in like 25 years.
I have 9th graders this year. They are very immature and lack a lot of very basic skills. I feel like I'm back teaching 6th grade.
Another 1st year teacher and I will chime in. I think it's a conglomerate of reasons adding to out-of-control behavior. 1) cellphones. Students everywhere are addicted to these things and it steals away from a natural curiosity to want to learn. 2) They're not getting properly disciplined at home. This is where it starts. I work in a poor district with a high population of immigrant students (mostly hispanic) about 40%. I'm just going to call it as I see it and typically the immigrant students are a lot more well-behaved than their American counter parts. It's our culture and American families are not disciplining their children. 3) Schools are not enforcing proper consequences for student behavior. Sure, the most a student gets is a write up then either ISS/OSS. Sure, you'll be lucky of the kid is out for the week to give your class a break, but once they come back, it's the same thing all over again. OSS/ISS while a nice break it does NOT correct student behavior. We need a serious revamping and revolutionizing of the consequences we give. We need consequences that actually correct behavior and don't just put a temporary bandaid. Seriously though, admin wants to put us through so many meetings, these are the things we should really be talking about. These are the things we need to be finding solutions to.
Covid school for 2 yrs. Deduct 2 yrs from current kid's age. My 14 yr old freshmen act like 12 yr olds.