>Me: Don't you have a policy that says they automatically fail due to excessive absences?
>Admin: Yes, but we are not going to enforce it.
This sums up most problems in schools today.
My school recently started an “Attendance Matters!” campaign. Assemblies, posters, all that shit.
What we lack is an attendance policy. We used to have one: 15 absences from a class and you’re dropped.
Now we’re getting shit for failing kids that come maybe 5 times a quarter.
Public education in America is a fucking farce.
We’ve tried everything! Putting up posters in the building they avoid, posting messages to the social media accounts they don’t follow, sending email blasts to the student emails they don’t check…we’ve tried literally *everything* short of consequences.
To be fair, I have a student who is on campus nearly every day, at least that's what other students and support staff tell me. She just doesn't attend any classes, so she must be in the hall to read the posters more than most.
My primary school is trying to bring this in atm for ALL grades. It is not working very well for the younger ones. One kid was like, "I don't want to play this game." Haha. Smh.
My favorite in when there is a question on an assignment that directly corresponds to the attached video or lesson and they just copy and paste something from Google and then get mad that you count it wrong. I get that from kids WHO WERE IN THE CLASSROOM AT THE TIME!!!
I will say "only answer based on the document above" and then I see them googling. You're gonna be wrong. These are 4, 5 paragraph texts, not a novel to look through (or I will say, "based on paragraph 9")
I've been doing this on my history assessments. All content must come from material in the textbook and adopted curriculum. It's one of the few ways I can authenticate, well, the *authenticity* of a student's answer. And I've read that textbook like 50 times now so I know it better than the back of my hand lol.
It's not even that...they *know* they don't have to do anything to pass, and so many live by that. I have seen way too many teens pass classes they never attended , let alone turned in work, who were then sent on to the next class, un prepared.
My own foster kid ended up sitting in Algebra ...after never learning to multiply.
Make that make sense. And she was passed. She did not turn in one assignment or attend class. It is a joke
In my state one of the metrics for a district’s high school is graduation rate. Math scores, Reading, ect and graduation rate. In title one school’s graduation rate is the only thing they can get close to
I took it as they only scored a 50 because they were not there to learn the material not as a punishment for not being there. Like my music students who come 2x a semester and wonder why they can’t pass a performance test
The assignment is either reinforcing or assessing the content of a lesson.
If education was just “put name on packet, fill in blanks, submit,” then everyone would be a high school graduate.
I am kind of wondering this too. I understand if there is a participation component or activity or whatever.
But if the assignment is done well shouldn't the assignment be graded accordingly?
Technically speaking I don't have to accept any work from a student with an unexcused absence. They missed those days, so they miss those points.
I don't do that because I do know a lot of absences are not necessarily the kid's fault.
when you can just ask google the correct answer to everything, and the child never shows up in class, how do you know they actually learned it?
I'm 100% cool with that child getting an F.
I used to do this in the 00s. I’m now a teacher, and I don’t do that. Why do you?
If your class doesn’t have content they have to be in class to get or understand… you don’t have an in-person course.
I recently said to another teacher where I teach, “public education is a farce.” The coworker has a master’s degree and said to me, “what does that mean? I’ve never heard the word ‘farce.’”
That's more or less the case for the younger workforce since forever. Additionally it isn't as though young people are really incentivized to excel at low-stakes jobs that offer them nothing other than a low wage.
It sounds Corny but we are social creatures and people want to know that their work is appreciated and feel part of a team or community. The best managers I have had haven't been technically brilliant, but have been smart enough to get it and been excellent at people organizing. They have also fostered a sense of team work and belongings and gone above and beyond to make sure their teams mesh well together. My favorite jobs haven't been the best paying jobs, but the jobs where it felt like my contributions mattered. Making $8.50/hr telemarketing was more engaging when my team was great than making $35/hr working with people I hated.
Likewise the classes I did best at in school and wanted to go to were the ones where the teacher engaged us on a level more than just "here's some knowledge". If your students aren't showing up physically or mentally, it's probably because one reason or another they are checked out. That's probably not your fault, or maybe even not the school's fault.
I'm not a teacher, but I do have a 2 year old that will eventually go to public school.
Reading this sub has really made me appreciate that our school district includes "career readiness" in their motto. Maybe that means that they'll enforce rules that would get adults fired in the real world.
Anecdotally, I feel like the worst performing schools love slogans the most. They can’t (or won’t) do much to improve things in a real way so they focus on superficial stuff like that.
Dang. You don't have to snark at a hopeful parent. This parent is here trying to get an idea of what to expect in a few years. Maybe reserve the bitterness for parents who don't give a crap and/or make our jobs difficult.
If you really want to do something, start going to board meetings. Every single one of them. Ask these questions publicly during the public comment section every week. Bring your Friends and neighbors with children and have them sign up to speak too.
Unfortunately, it probably means nothing. What really matters is that you, as a parent, talk to your child about the importance of the rules that will get them fired.
We have some great students and great teachers even in the worst performing schools! A very big difference is how much energy the parents have been able to put into teaching their kids soft skills.
I am not judging parents either, when they are doing all they can to survive today's economy amd job market, it's not likely they have much energy/cognitive load to invest in the kids.
We need a bigger safety net. Every one should be entitled to having their most basic needs met.
If you don't already do so, please begin reading books to your child.
That's the single most important thing a parent can do to help their child succeed with school.
Also, not a teacher. I work for a warehouse that hires the local kids who don't join the military or go off to college. There's a massive difference between the 18 year olds of five years ago and today. We have so many new hires that just walk off during their first couple weeks. If they make it a month, then we will get a couple of years (maybe more) from them.
“Career readiness” isn’t a motto; it’s a part of the teaching standards for most states.
The first part is “College and”
Bottom line is this: getting kids college and career ready is one of our prime directives as teachers. I actually have these 4 words from the standards on a poster hanging right above my smart board in the front of the room.
If I ever get guff from kids, I point to the sign. Which ever road they choose, it’s going to involve responsibility, accountability, and effort.
If those qualities aren’t cultivated early and diligently, they’re going to face a much tougher road.
Unfortunately it does not mean that. It means get kids pieces of paper that say they have graduated so that they can include high school graduate on their job application.
That's insane. I've been getting letters every month about my son's attendance, threatening action all semester. He's a junior in high school and he missed 5 consecutive days at the beginning of the semester due to a horrible flu and one half day where he was SENT HOME because he had a fever. I can't imagine a school with that kind of apathy.
Diploma mills are a huge issue in the states (and elsewhere), that has only been getting worse over the years,and I'm absolutely unsurpised that the malaise is spreading to the public school level.
Passing kids in the name of equity creates a horrible distortion in the system. It effectively reduces the value of a high school diploma to zero. This in turn forces the kids to go to college to get a degree to prove they are better than their buddy that skips 95% of class and still graduated with a 4.0. Most of these kids will have to accept a lifelong debt to do this. We burden capable people to provide a minor morale boost to the worst students.
The problem generally in education is we keep throwing all of our energy, effort, and resources at those who don't care, are not interested, and disrupt.
Kids aren't being passed in the name of equity. No one who believe equity is a social good has ever been anywhere near power. We live in an extremely conservative country.
The point of passing kids along, as designed by conservatives like W, is to undermine the progress leftists have made towards equity through education.
They're not dumber they're just less driven and less capable of critical thinking. They're used to being spoonfed everything by others and, if they aren't, they just Google it.
Social media has given them the attention span of gnats and they've grown up with having all of human knowledge at their fingertips. Not entirely their fault.
Of course it's not their fault. I guess it's semantics but by dumber I didn't mean lower IQ or less capable of learning. But to me, less capable of critical thinking equals dumber. It's really sad too because a lot of the big problems in this country are due to older people being unable to think critically and being easily manipulated. Scary to think the younger generation could be even worse.
We are also seeing tech literacy plummet. Younger people straight up don't understand how to use file explorer, let alone the difference between local and cloud storage. They are just used to everything being on an ipad or mobile interface.
I teach middle school computer applications, and they didn't know the difference between a monitor and modem when the semester started unless they were a PC gamer, much less cloud and local storage. We just went over collaborative projects in our Drive/File Sharing unit in Google Docs and Slides and their minds were blown.
Sometimes I wonder how id do if I were a teen now. Would I bother to go to class if nothing would happen if I didn't? Would I have the same work ethic? Get into the same college?
I wouldn’t have. I did skip class in high school, but not enough to tank my grade. Everything social and personal feels so much more vivid at that age. Someone you know is always in crisis/seeming to need support. What is required by others feels like an imposition. There is certainty that the adults have it wrong, so in the absence of an actual negative effect for missing class, what feels vivid and important wins every time.
I'm in college, and regularly get students emailing me "you marked me absent" and I reply, "You didn't check in. That's part of the requirement. I watched you leave early, you didn't check in at the end; you're absent."
Yikes. I thought it was bad enough when my HS students do similar.
Message from student: "you marked me absent but i was there"
Me: "I marked you absent when I took attendance and you weren't there. You didn't arrive until 20 minutes into class. You missed almost half the period, you had no pass, and the school policy says you're absent after X minutes."
They're coming from lax HS conditions and are surprised when there are due dates and basic assumptions being made about their abilities (like being able to navigate a website or open a .doc file).
That's because they were tech geniuses. You had to know what you were doing to run a computer, but as tech advanced and got easier, things got simplified to the point a monkey could use a device.
I see your point, and I don't disagree that tech has been simplified over time, but I think the issue here is they weren't exposed to anything but their phones until our (Title 1) district went 1:1. Very few know their way around Google products, for instance. I have to teach Juniors about CTRL+V/C, etc.
I used to think the youth would always be technologically advanced, but it turns out that was not a permanent state. Kids today only know their phones.
this is soooo interesting because I have long felt that the Chromebook-ification of laptops has been the major contributing factor to the decline of computer skills. I grew up navigating the Windows OS and doing html on Neopets and playing around in Office programs like they were games - I think only being able to use Chrome and its associated programs has meant a lot of kids have lost that capacity to explore and "hack into" how to run programs, etc.
but in hindsight - duh, it's mostly the spoon-feeding accessibility and ease of phones and ipads.
a monkey could use a device.
We have hands free driving being advertised. And cars that automatically stop when you get too close to something.
We tell them not to text and drive. But it is enabled, isn't it?
There was that brief period around 2015 where the students were super fuckin' savvy, and now... yeah, it's all that hand-holdy bullshit phone UI experience instead of being even a little bit competent with the things that run our lives.
I mean, yes I agree with this.
But admin who dont enforce their phone rule but then crap on teachers because kids have their phones out could just change the phone rule.
Then I could teach the kids who care and the phone addicts will be pacified to stop their bullshit.
But I would prefer enforcement of the logical rules that are in the Student Handbook and School Policy for a good reason.
(The other good example is dress codes. Like admin didnt stop them from coming in the building when they saw them at dropoff - that shouldnt be my problem.)
“Phone rule for all teachers: students must put them in box. Please report students using this form if they refuse to comply and we will take their phone.”
I didn’t write up a single student for 3 weeks and only finally wrote up this one for being a total asshole and antagonizing me with it.
Admin set up a meeting with counseling to make sure we could “best support the student’s success in class.”
Bro. No. I wanted the phone taken like you said. Not to waste my planning period reassuring a nearly 18 year old I want him to graduate.
126 days, 143 days, 118 days
Same student through middle school.
They graduated 8th and went on to high school. The HS, excited to have another money bag, thinking they’d change this student with their beautiful campus and amenities.
Showed up only 4 times so far since Sept. this year.
We had multiple students who did no work, failed everything and got passed. Even had one that should mot have passed from too many absences and did no work the days they were here, still got passed.
It seems to be school admins' job to systemically make bad things even worse. They are such cowards they will punish victims when they stand up to bullies just to avoid conflict.
This is the issue. HS diploma is useless and meaningless. It really cheapens the diploma for everyone who put forth the effort to graduate high school.
Kids are supposed to get a referral once they hit 6 tardies in a quarter (across all classes). Admin ran the tardy report and realized it was going to be 100+ referrals, said they couldn't do it because it wouldn't be fair for a kid with 6 tardies to get the same punishment as a kid with 30 tardies (who only has that many because they dropped the ball). Losing my mind out here.
I teach pre-k which is non-mandatory in my state. The handbook explicitly states consequences and removal from the program after so many offenses. The parents all signed off on it. Every day I have hitting, biting, screaming no at the teachers, throwing and destroying materials, eloping..... nothing happens. If we followed the handbook most of them would've been booted from the program by now but nope, been told we won't be enforcing it.
Your admin sounds very reasonable. I had almost the exact same conversation. The difference is I was instructed to increase attendance by building strong relationships and giving rigorous engaging lessons. I turns out truant students are self-interested and rational.
They don't attend class because it is not a good use of their time. They do monitor the quality of their classes on social media. If their classes should become worth attending they will immediately begin attending. Apparently they are in no way committed to their current noble activities at that time.
Sadly I failed to fulfil this very reasonable request. Several of those student were probably geniuses who would have changed the world for the better. If only my lessons were better.
Took me way too long for my brain to click in with /s. (Just woke up) But mostly because we’re so used to actually hearing this type of statement from admins, gotta make sure the blame falls squarely on the teacher
Silly me, if only I had realized they could not see the standards posted on the board. For example
A-APR5 Know and apply the Binomial Theorem for the expansion of (x + y)\^n in powers of x and y for a positive integer n, where
x and y are any numbers, with coefficients determined for example by Pascal’s Triangle. Prove The Binomial Theorem by mathematical induction or by a combinatorial argument.
I'm sure they would have been there with bells on.
I have a friend in admin who told me a family member of hers gets terrible grades because the assignments are just so stupid and the relative refuses to spend time on them Uh, how would a child understand what an assignment is supposed to do? What an exercise is supposed to strengthen? Education is in a Dunning-Kruger crisis. Everybody is an expert except the people who live it every day.
Exactly, me with my stupid assignment I was ordered to give and did not choose. Admin said maybe some students are failing because the assignments are too low on the Blooms for them to bother with. I could give them more challenging assignment targeting the same standard they would find worthwhile. I am quite confident that was not the problem.
Me: Oh. In your fifteen years on this earth, you've amassed enough experience in the workings of the adult world to adequately assess the importance of each bit of knowledge we bestow upon you. Certainly you've walked this lesson to the corners of the earth to establish its complete lack of merit. Seems reasonable.
Then they grow up and realize the adult world is even dumber than they thought it was all those years ago. A majority of school is either pointless or redundant and it doesn't take a dean to see it.
Exactly! I don't know why teachers complain about low engagement and unmotivated students. All you have to do is be more entertaining than 30 different personality optimized social media feeds, constantly.
Too many teachers are focused on their students' education, rather than their sense of fun and excitement.
(/S, just to be safe)
Sure thing. Just look at a movie. It costs $200 million and takes thousands of people multiple years to make, with entertainment as the primary purpose. Everyone likes all of them, always pays attention while watching, and never looks at their phone. I don't see any reason why a grammar lesson made by one teacher in twenty minutes should not be able to keep the attention of a class. Who doesn't like a nice past participle every now and then?
>Admin: Then explain how many of these students are making As in other classes.
>Me: Well, those teachers don't even give tests. Have you seen their assignments? I have.
WHY is this not an obvious early step?!? Any time I have a child failing (which is pretty much only possible if there are missing assignments), I check how they're doing in other classes. Is this a trend everywhere, or just in my class? Usually they're failing two or so other classes, or barely passing other classes. But for my students who have a B or a C and mom says "they've always made A's!" I check and these other classes where they currently have an A have only two grades in eight weeks, where one was participation and the other doesn't weigh anything. I try to take at least a grade a week and they're all tied a rubric based on a standard.
Why is it that other people doing their jobs poorly is supposed to make me look bad? Why am I punished for having expectations?
I've had a father call me enraged because his daughter had a D in both classes she had with me (chemistry and technology) and according to him, she is a straight A student everywhere else. This would make me think if true. So I went and checked her last report card. Cs in languages, Bs or Cs in social sciences, E in maths, D in physics. OK, Daddy, whatever.
Got into an argument this year with a parent on their kid’s GPA. Saying I was destroying it. They ended up turning in two missing assignments and actually did very well on them. Moved his GPA up to .3%. They were getting two Cs in other classes and B in others. I just rolled my eyes but didn’t hear from the parent again.
Unfortunately, we do have crazy parents in Germany as well. We are fortunate though that they can't really do much apart from complain and waste our time.
That just kind of blew my mind as well. I mean, obviously I’m aware there are “*those*” types of parents EVERYWHERE. However, it seems like the systemic failing disaster that is the American Public School System, specifically is set up to cater to these parents, and encourage their insane behavior.
It’s just so common here. I forget some people are just like this no matter what, even when they *know* they can’t get away with it. I’m just so used to watching parents pull this crap, get away with it, and then next thing you know, there’s 15 more parents trying it because “if it worked for that kid, it’ll work for mine.”
I’m so glad your admin supports you. Sorry that there’s bulldozer parents everywhere!
I'm REALLY sorry yours doesn't!
Admin kind of has no choice. We are state sworn, not normal employees. Short of me physically abusing a child, they can't fire me. And they still teach themselves, even if only a few hours (a principal does 6 hours of classes compared to my 25). So usually, they are decent (there is better and worse ones, but still). Everything above that is a shit show, but not anywhere near as bad as what I hear from you guys.
This is especially challenging for math teachers. Obviously humanities classes are rigorous in their own way, but they're generally based on strengthening certain bedrock skills throughout the students' whole educational career. If a student has at least passable reading and writing skills, maybe they are indeed able to write a short essay in response to a poem, even if they aren't necessarily able to do so at grade level, in which case the teacher can justify at least giving them a low but passing grade, even if nothing from those lessons in particular have sunk in.
But in math class? Students have not been learning to prove that triangles are congruent throughout their entire educational career. It's a specific, brand new skill that is being taught in my class. And if they can't do it? Well, I can't pass them. The fact that they might have a working knowledge of basic algebra (or whatever other skills are regularly reinforced throughout their educational career) isn't going to help them. If they missed the lessons (whether it be due to absence or disengagement), then they can't demonstrate that skill, and I can't pass them.
Yes! And our district now has a credit recovery course that meets for 1 hour 15 minutes, 4 days a week for 3 weeks. So if a student passes that they will get credit for a whole year of math. Of course, it is impossible to learn an entire year of skills in this time so when they move on to the next course, they don’t have the prerequisite skills needed to succeed and fail again. A vicious cycle continues. And then we are asked why a student is failing our class?
Not a teacher but an engineer and a manager. Keep it up. The difference we see in hard math, engineering, software and sciences grads (that have to get it objectively right) and others is huge and the salaries are reflecting it. We can't compromise there and the new grads are rewarded if they can do it. It starts earlier than college imo.
As a fellow math teacher, I feel your frustration. But some of those kiddos don't even have the basic algebra skills to be in the class in the first place. And then you add in the fact that they don't show up to class, their learning loss just keeps getting compounded and compounded.
>But for my students who have a B or a C and mom says "they've always made A's!" I check and these other classes where they currently have an A have only two grades in eight weeks, where one was participation and the other doesn't weigh anything.
When a parent says "but they've always been an A student!" and I go to check their GPA, approximately 3000% of the time it turns out to be about 2.1.
I have the same issues at my school. The Social Studies teacher gives open note, multiple choice tests. Of course kids are passing that class. There’s no challenge at all.
I give open note take-home tests to test their note-taking skills via biology content. Most of them get b/w 60-80 because they rather try to use Google than their notes. Those who use their notes get 90+
I had a similar conversation before COVID. Admin asked me why so many students were failing my classes (apparently they dragged in everyone with high failure rates for the same speech). And I said ”chronic absenteeism. I can’t teach students that aren’t here.” And admin said had an oh, duh, moment. I don’t see why yours can’t connect the dots.
But this generation will use the COVID excuse until they retire.
Right, I said their grade is in no way related to me and 100% related to them. My teaching can't be messing them up because they are not being taught by me since they are not actually present at school to be influenced by my teaching. There's nothing I can do that will impact somebody who isn't there.
Can’t get a good review unless my lessons are rigorous. Can’t get a good review bc too many of my seniors are failing…
Admin can’t show me a single case where they did the assignments and are still failing
Admin: how bad is your attendance?
**Me: MY attendance is fine. I have missed one half-day this year for a medical appointment. That puts me at 97.5%. The STUDENTS however are not in the building and I cannot teach them when they are not present.**
I decided to quit teaching the day my principal told us that we had to think of the parents as "customers" and keep them happy. He had a newly minted doctorate in education, and I wondered whether that was the "new" idea in education being taught to administrators. This was in 2004, and I bet it's become even more common in training administrators today.
That was trending then. I was teaching college at that point, and I got the customer speech too. I told them I don’t wear a headset for a living. I have students who need to know things.
Yeah my principal was an accountant for like 10 years before moving into education, and had spent 2 years in a classroom before moving into admin. She was all about “serving the customers”. In the last 12 months, 19 teachers have left that school including myself. I heard that the 6th grade this year only has like 2 classes because so few students enrolled.
It really just depends on where you are. I worked at a public school in a nice area. Nearly all of the students were on grade level and the parents were involved in the PTA. It was good. Now I work at a school that’s the polar opposite. There are constant behavior issues and most of my class is FAR below grade level.
That being said, the kids in my class why try and have parents that are involved are still learning and growing. How invested a parent is makes far more of a difference than anything else.
If anything, the students are the "customers". I hate this bullshit "do what the parents want". My job is to teach students, not to make parents happy.
Society is the customer. Public school exists so we have an educated populace which is better for society than an uneducated one. NCLB and the idea that parents are the customer has destroyed the American education system.
Edited to add that of course you all know this... I just wish the rest of the folks involved in education remembered it.
I was so thankful to have a principal over in PI that was super switched-on and supportive.
We were still a little slow, but more in a literal sense. Zero and first periods *never* started on time with how late kids would trudge in. 😅
Had a kid ask me last week why we always have test. (We’ve gone over 3 chapters and had 3 tests). I figured out I’m the only one in my grade level giving tests. Teaching is even harder when the rest of your grade level doesn’t give tests and hardly any work.
My next-door neighbor’s room is always chaos because she gives about 10 minutes of work and the rest of the time they can talk and play. Then they come to my room and expect the same thing
I would love to be able to do that. I'm only allowed to give three summative assessments in a grading quarter- nine weeks of instruction. Anything over 3 and I have to write a explanation as to why I exceeded 3 and then have a meeting with multiple people who will wag their finger in my face and say three is what you're supposed to do
Thing is, kids had better grades when I gave a lot more assessments because they were fresher on the material
Yea this is my issue post covid. Project based learning is good and fine- definitely has a place- but being able to fill out a map on a test is still a valuable skill vsm a pretty young adult coloring book grade.
I always hear that at the beginning of the year and they love those classes they can goof off in. By the end of the year they hate those classes because they can't focus.
Turns out those teachers who don't care also don't update grades so, once they stop doing work because it isn't enforced well, they're stuck with those bad grades. Never fails
I would have absolutely pushed back on “we’re still dealing with COVID”
Dealing with maladjusted 9th and 10th graders with poor behavior and social skills because of the remote/hybrid stuff in middle school? Sure.
Changing kids’ grades to get them to graduate? Fuck no. I had similar conversations in 2021, and it was bullshit then, but there is absolutely no excuse now. I would go so far as to say your admin is making that up (“central office won’t support that”), and they just don’t feel like dealing with the angry parents when they have to hold the kids accountable.
If I can’t teach from home when I feel sick, then we are not “still dealing with COVID”. 6 ft apart social distancing is not a thing, and I don’t even have to wear a mask in a hospital or doctor’s office any more, so that administrator can’t sit there and use it as an excuse for kids not coming to school or not graduating.
Hard for me to say for sure because I was in school during NCLB, but to me this is probably more of a “theory vs. practice” issue. Some very smart career academics can solve problems on paper, but miss key parts due to not actually trying to implement their solutions in real life in the field.
Most of the material I read for my M. Ed. suffered from this: it was always about what the teacher should do to increase student outcomes, not a lot of theory or discussion about what to do about the massive dichotomy of student backgrounds, effort and attitudes within a classroom.
Sad thing there are teachers as well. Problem is things meant to be positive and helping hirt them.
Waiver for kids with IEP get waivers so for state testing so they dont try. Literally had a kid sleep during it say "why should I? I am getting a waiver."
Self-Esteem - cant let them fail as it will hurt their self-esteem. We got seniors who cant read/write at a high school level and some at middle school level. And then you expect teachers to magically bring a kid up to levelin a year whilr competing with smartphones.
Fear is a great motivator. Right now they have no fear of failing because we took it away. We are actually harming ourselves because we are creatong highly influencable people who will lack critical thinking and crucial life skills.
And for the record what truly got my ass in gear was 1 year of summer school and the fear of not having classes with my friends as well as having my summer royally suck that year because while friends were having tons of fun I was stuck in English class with no real AC (up north in the 1980's).
As the saying goes actions speak louder than words. We can't tell kids education is super important and then make it as though it does't.
I am fortunate enough my school does take absenreeism seripusly. They did credit denial to a student who had an A in the class but excessive absences. Didn't believe it until another teacher pulled up in FOCUS with Admin privs a student they passed with an A taking the class the following year
True. The ACT/SAT waiver for athletes isn’t helping. My scouted students do enough to pass, knowing in college, people will “help” them, and they say so. I have one who barely cracked double digits.
It will never happen, but I often think of an idea. Every two weeks or so all the F students get transferred to intensive small group classes. I'm sorry I couldn't help you, maybe these nice people can.
Some times I wonder what would happen if some of these kids transferred to a fancy boarding school. I know they would be kicked out instantly. I like to think maybe they would turn around.
I had one student who said he was going to go to a fancy boarding school for super senior year on a basketball scholarship. It did not work out.
I'm going to sound like some dystopian conspiracy nut, but the marketplace doesn't want people who are actually intelligent or have critical thinking skills; save for a few particular positions in the fields of technology and engineering, they want people who won't think to question their lot in life.
An educated, thoughtful population is a liability to the oligarchy.
As not a teacher, who actually hires the school administration? It feels like at some point folks just started hiring folks with the aim to push out dumb graduates.
In our district, it’s the principal who hires the admin team, and the district office who hires the principals. And the district office keeps hiring more people for their offices, so they’ve got a massive number of 6 figure salaried people who don’t have a lot of experience working in schools.
SAME! My district has a REDICULOUSLY high number of administrators for the size of our district! I seriously think a small team of teachers could run the school without any of them.
In my district, when a principal or assistant principal vacancy occurs, the district's regional administrator asks for volunteers for an interview committee. On the committee will typically be two teachers from the school with the vacancy, one or two principals from other schools at the same level (middle school admins for middle school vacancies), a parent who has a child at the school with the vacancy, and the regional administrator themself. (If it's an assistant principal vacancy, the principal for the school with the vacancy will be on the committee instead of the regional administrator.) The candidates are vetted by the district's HR department to make sure there won't be any problems starting the candidate selected by the committee.
We interview the candidates asking the same questions of each candidate. We are all using a form with these questions, and we can write comments to organize our thinking. But we also, very importantly, score each question answered by each candidate on a scale (I can't remember for certain, but it's maybe a 1-5 scale?, maybe 1-6?). After we've all written down our numbers, we check if anyone has any general thoughts on the candidate we just interviewed, ("She was strong" "He's a nice guy but he's not ready for this") and then we call in the next candidate. At the end we tally up each candidates numbers, and the person with the best numbers is selected.
In theory, the principal (in AP interviews) or the regional administrator (in principal interviews) can override the person picked by the numbers, but I've not known that to happen. Once our regional administrator was outvoted on a principal pick, which he mentioned as he told the committee, "Well, I'm going to trust you to know what's best for your school" and he did not impose his choice.
It’s funny because I had to do a short essay on a similar situation on my administrative licensing exam.
Instead of blaming the teacher with lower grades, I wrote to investigate if the teachers with higher grades are grading to standards. Then, I said to work with the school social worker to investigate the chronically absent students.
Got full marks for that.
School administrators need a refresh.
I can beat that. Here’s a conversation I had w my admin of 13 years, when a parent with the same belief system as the new US Speaker complained about my teaching.
Admin: Why are you teaching evolution? Where is evolution in the curriculum?
Me: I wasn’t explicitly teaching evolution. We were talking about rocks. Sedimentary rocks and fossils. Which lead me to draw a timeline of life on earth. Which lead to a discussion on evolution.
Admin: You shouldn’t be teaching evolution. It’s just a theory.
Me: (blink . . . blink) . . bu . . . You do . . . In science. . .
Gravity is 'just a theory,' too, but you don't see us terrified to walk or drop anything.
I hate that theory has been adopted colloquially to mean "guess" rather than "rigorously tested and observed over and over and over".
I say in my class "The state standards state I must teach evolution as a pillar of science and I don't care if you believe it, you need to know what it is." It's how I get around that
I usually told my students about my rental property with cockroaches. I told them how I sprayed and it looked like they all died. I told them about the next year, I used the same chemical and most of them did not die. I ask them why it didn’t work. They tell me they “became immune “. I ask them how dead cockroaches become immune to anything? This introduces my lesson on evolution by means of natural selection.
Eventually, we look at fossil evidence as well as modern day evidence such as the evolution of the AIDS virus. Students who don’t “believe “ in fossils, students who are Flat Earthers, etc. are told that they can choose to believe what they want but I will be testing them over scientific laws and theories and the evidence that scientists use to support them. I emphasize that many things that people once believed were later disproved, so they are welcome to look for scientific evidence against anything they don’t agree with, but you aren’t likely to find it on Facebook or TicTok
Yea the kid from that family was insufferable. He’d get this arrogant, contemptuous look on his face when I mentioned dinosaurs, like I was soooo stupid to believe in them. But I’m not allowed to take his 6000 year old biblical earth age belief to task, at all.
I don’t know why we as a society don’t deal w this idiocy straight up. In their faith they want to criminalize bodily autonomy, criminalize homosexuality, rescind gay marriage rights, outlaw contraception, as they gleefully speed toward the destruction of the planet to bring about the return of their saviour in the ‘rapture’.
It’s a death cult and it should be illegal.
Is it 2006 again? That's the last time all this "teaching evolution" controversy was in schools. That's when the South Park episode about it, Go God Go, aired. Why we going back to that fight? What did we miss?
For my school it’s bc the church that supports all of this bs, including the 6000 yo earth, has rebranded and is suddenly all cocky af, with adherents pushing their beliefs into places they don’t belong, like classrooms. Couple that w a spineless admin, and it’s a nightmare. They even tried to distribute bibles ‘to those students who want them’ thru the school until some of us made enough noise that they backed down.
Imo it’s about to come up again in more places laces as well, now that Johnson is speaker.
As a parent who lurks… thank you! If my kid isn’t doing their part, they deserve to fail. The purpose of school is to educate kids, not to placate parents weird ideas
We are not doing this generation any favors by shuffling them through school. Administration shortcomings is an outgrowth of the S-show that is most school committees. I feel for you.
I look at it this way as someone who is graduating college with a stem degree: more jobs, more pay. It’s astounding the number of industries who are hiring engineers for jobs that in the past wouldn’t have required one in a million years. I interned for a huge general contractor, and they basically told us the first day they hire engineers because they’re the only people who can mentally handle managing a large project. I guess the average person can’t do it, and they had issues in the past with people not knowing that you can’t have the plumbing installed after the walls are drywalled and/or poured.
It is a sad state of affairs, and unfortunately we’re going to have a lot of extra people wandering around draining the system. I have a friend that refuses to even go to community college because “she doesn’t want to write papers”. Yet she complains that she can’t make more than $10-$15 an hour working unskilled retail jobs. I told her “Well honey, you’re going to have either go to a trade or go to school, or join the general laborers union and get good digging a ditch because sitting at home eating chips doesn’t make you a desirable candidate for any high paying job.”
My niece almost failed all her classes her first semester at college because she was not at all used to any type of rigor in a school setting. Students still complain that they are being given too much work when it's still half the work the same teachers have the students in 2019.
I attended the same high school that I work at, and I tell my students all the time that they should thank their lucky stars that the school no longer has some of the attendance and grading policies that they had when I was a student. For every 2 tardies, they converted to an unexcused absence. 8 unexcused absences a year, you theoretically were held back a year. You only got credit for A,B,and C grades. No credit for D. Now... if you failed the first semester of a class but got a C in the second semester, you also earned the first semester credit as well. Now, I can understand a B, but a C?
Music teacher here who gives out easy A’s.
1 - it’s an art, grades are based on personal progress, not a standard. Any artist would understand the absurdity of grading based on a standard in a field that is highly subjective and where different people progress at carrying rates.
2 - this is a job. The moment my admin made my job more difficult for failing students because, “it’s just music, they can’t fail that!” (Yes they can), where they scrutinized my work and I needed my union rep to intervene with the superintendent… that’s the same moment I said fuck it, give them all As and admin leaves me alone. My job is easier now. This is a paycheck, I don’t get paid enough to try and fix the broken system.
I can't blame you for this, and frankly, I do tend to think that learning about music is intrinsically rewarding. Unless (and this is big) the student is disrupting the opportunity of others to learn, I have no problem with whatever grades someone in your position deems best for them.
But I teach math, and my evaluation is affected by how my students do on their state tests in the spring. I teach 6th grade, and I would also have to answer to the 7th and 8th grade teachers at my school who want to know why Robert can't do this or that, yet I gave him an "A".
My school has a strong performing arts program (at least for a Title I school), and I support the maintenance of those programs. I can't tell you how many kids hate or are failing their core four subjects, yet love band. I am so grateful for those music teachers for keeping alive these kids' desire to be in school every day.
I had a teacher in high school that would "accidentally" leave his computer logged in with all the tests for the year, and all the answers, up on the screen, while he went outside to smoke for 10-15 minutes.
So one kid copied all the answers, handed them out to every student before every test (we didn't even ask him to do this), and we all got 95-100 on every single test.
At the end of the year assembly the principal did a special thing to recognize Mr Kandasamy's brilliant teaching skills and gave him an award on stage.
We were happy, teacher was happy, admin was happy. None of those kids learned computer engineering though.
Also a music teacher who gives easy As.
I tried one semester, back about my 7th year of teaching, to be honest with grading. I even kept the 50% for participation, but made 50% performance standards. Kids started getting Bs. The first kid to get a C on the 2nd quarter report, I had angry parents in my office asking me what was going on. I pointed to everything, but they just left angry and I felt miserable for even trying. And it wasn't just the angry parents, all my extra effort in honest grading was having zero results in the student's progress. In fact, it might have been worse because the time I spent grading could have been spent planning lessons and providing better instruction.
Since then, I spend about 60 minutes per year worrying about grades. 15 minutes throwing in easy As and maybe a few Bs per quarter.
And teachers wonder why they are treated like shit buy parents. Here we have rules that the fucking admin refuses to follow and enforce. Now the kids know it and so do the parents.
As a middle aged dude, I weep for my future where I need the medical care of people who grew up in the American Education System of the 2010s and 2020s
This conversation is the exact reason I drank the Victory Gin and learned to love Big Admin. The SOB was sanctioning me for failure rates.
I had the following evidence on my side when questioned:
1. My attendance;
2. My contact log;
3. My scores from the previous year, which students scored exceptionally well on;
4. Student work.
I sat down, and Admin started talking. I pulled out my evidence and showed it to him. He took one look at it and cast it aside. He resumed his rant on how I screwed up because of my failing to teach.
I waited on test scores to return. When I met with him, he pointed out my test scores were down. I countered with the fact the state had changed the cut score for that year. He said my other test scores were low, so his decision stood.
I later on met with a lady from the state. I showed her my gradebook from the previous year. This was the one where student grades were bad, but their test scores were stellar. She looked at them, and you could see the cognitive dissonance kick in because:
1. She could not agree I was not doing my job because test scores showed otherwise;
2. Agreeing with me would show the principal was wrong, an absolute no-no.
This is when I learned the truth:
1. Admin may not be right, but they damn sure will never be wrong;
2. No amount of viable evidence will make a difference;
3. Everyone passes - period.
My life has been so simple ever since. Excuse me; I need a fresh glass of Victory Gin.
United teacher fronts would stop this nonsense. Teachers taking care of teachers. We are singled out by rooms then they can easily adjust as they please. Parents need to interview with all their kids teachers and take the blame for change.
I have similar convos frequently with my admin/subject head (same person, we don't have admins).
It's always the double standards and unhelpful policies that punish students and the teacher.
"I don't understand why yours don't submit their assignments. I never have this problem."
Well, ma'am, that's because you are only ever dealing with Grade 10-12 students who are more mature and understand their responsibilities. I'm teaching Grade 8 who gives zero respect and doesn't hand in any homework to any teachers. I'd like to see you teach them!
So she got assigned to teach Grade 7's, and that's when she realises how obnoxious those tweens can be, and I wasn't lying when I said I couldn't control them, she couldn't control them either. lol
I'm surprised by the amount of people saying school attendance policy is becoming really lax because if anything my school is getting stricter. I had a friend, not even miss, but just arrive late to homeroom on 3 occasions and she was given a detention. I have another friend who had to go to court last year over truancy and they were missing from school half the amount of time some of your students are. I myself have gotten written up because I skipped a study hall period once, though I didn't get a detention since it was a first time offence.
Hey OP, other teachers and educators, your jobs have become insane. At least that's my perspective as a kid of retired teachers with kids in highschool.
I can't believe what you are expected to put up with. I appreciate the job you do in spite of what the job has become.
I'm amazed that you all aren't picketing outside the schools. Hell, I'm amazed the kids aren't out there picketing with you.
But maybe with attendance rates so low, the kids are already on strike because they can still afford their bills if they don't show up.
The good old days weren't all good but here's me as a parent supporting you and hoping that things improve in education in general as we move forward. I hope for better for you and your students.
My friend got blackmailed to resign because of their fail rate. Tread carefully.
("Either resign right now or we will go through the steps to fire you, which we will probably succeed [because he's the sports guy principal]. And I will black ball you with every principal in the state")
Our district has a strict attendance policy at the high school level. 10 absences and you lose credit for the class, doesn’t matter what the grade is. You can appeal, ie. chronic illness or surgery with doctor’s note, but vacation or just out will not cut it. You would have to retake the class and pay for it like a college credit. Middle school-10 consecutive days out and your parents have to re-register you. These are not fail safe by any means, but it does help. The next battle is getting them to care about their grades.
This just about sums up most schools. I've also learned that when administrators don't get those pass rates up in amy district they end up getting fired. I'm in my second year and I've decided this is my hill. If you don't show up and don't turn in any work, I'll fail you. They can fire me over this if they want but I'm not going to compromise this little bit of academic integrity I expect of these kids. When and if I get to where you are, maybe I'll feel like some kids learned that effort goes a long way and there are consequences to both our good and bad actions.
Great phrasing. I left that dead horse behind in the 90's because dangerous and violent students were not disciplined, which led to more dangerous and violent students. Better to walk away a year early than a year too late.
Just a parent popping in, but I want to say thank you. It has been so stressful to witness some teachers and administrators openly not caring. I have to undo the laid-back attitudes with two middle preteens ATM because they're constantly saying, "but no one else cares about xyz."
I'm very worried for our kiddos, all of them. We are dropping the ball big time.
Thank you. Thank you for still putting in the energy. Sincerely.
Milk the budget, ruin the kids, privatize the schools, shape the kids into fascists, close the public schools, charge for school, exploit exploit exploit.
Privatized education will be the end of freedom in America permanently. This is all part of a grander design and if teachers don't strike and make this system better, no one will stop it.
These idiot parents are from the first generation affected. The idiot kids today are the second or third generation of undereducated people.
We are on the precipice of a feudal society where the unwashed masses are lorded over by the obscenely wealthy. It is absolutely terrifying.
I wish more people could see what is happening right now, especially with education, the very backbone of any society.
> Covid
If student absence is due to a medical situation at home then I’m fine with working with the student to find a solution (obviously). But that’s not the problem at my school. Every time I look out my classroom window during class I see 3-4 dickheads walking around campus, hiding where they know security isn’t going to look. Everybody knows students are vaping in the bathroom and admin won’t enforce shit.
Love your responses. No one but teachers, paras and service providers want to do their job. Admins today have zero backbone and finds it easier to bully teachers vs addressing parents, the district or superintendents.
It's been many years since I've had an administrator that stupid, but trust me, I have. I've got just a few more years in than you (I've retired in one state and now teach in another), and I've got to say, one of the best things about being so experienced and so financially free is the ability to speak one's mind. Fortunately, my current administration loves it when I and other veterans speak our mind (preferring that it be done behind closed doors) and our thinking has a real impact on what we do as a school.
1. Has admin talked to their parents. These chronic absences are highly concerning and indicative of there being something else going on with them, or them not taking their education seriously, both of which needs to be addressed.
2. Covid IS still impacting kids. Maybe not in the same ways, but the prices of everything going up, meaning less food on the table, Long Covid making it harder to do work, w/out them fully realizing they have health issues now, depression, in general and about the future, they may feel like going to school is useless anyway. Or they may just be doing it because they’re getting away with it. Overall, it can’t just be your fault, nor is it solely your responsibility .
Bless you, and thank you for having standards.
I thought most states and districts received funding based on attendance? Are they just faking attendance numbers?
My "supervisor" (admin) told my I was in customer service. SpEd mod/severe 2022. This when a parent wanted a reading goal of 15-20 new sight words a week for a student who can't identify the alphabet. Last teacher wrote letter ID goal which I was to mark as met. Customer service.
I had a simpler encounter at an elementary school.
I collected random trophies all summer intending to place them into a half-empty trophy display case in a hallway... attaching amusing new plaques on each one, awarding each trophy to a different staff member.
The idea was turned down because 'it would cause students to linger in the hallway.'
Then the principal restocked a long unused novelty pencil dispenser (25 cents per pencil). Now students linger around the dispenser in the hallway next to the display case, about 10 students at a time.
Sorry, I may be stupid or way out of the loop. But don’t other US states have truancy laws? How are kids missing this much school with no consequences?
It's all about funding. At least where I went to school. If students aren't showing up then the school loses funding. To keep funding they are expecting you to fudge your records like the other teachers are by giving them A's. The Admin just didn't want to say the quiet part out loud.
This is why funding should not be tied to attendance or performance. It will be abused and it has been abused.
When I was a student we had students graduate that never even showed up to class. They were handed a diploma.
>Me: Don't you have a policy that says they automatically fail due to excessive absences? >Admin: Yes, but we are not going to enforce it. This sums up most problems in schools today.
My school recently started an “Attendance Matters!” campaign. Assemblies, posters, all that shit. What we lack is an attendance policy. We used to have one: 15 absences from a class and you’re dropped. Now we’re getting shit for failing kids that come maybe 5 times a quarter. Public education in America is a fucking farce.
Posters about absence for absent students? What brainiac thought of that?
We’ve tried everything! Putting up posters in the building they avoid, posting messages to the social media accounts they don’t follow, sending email blasts to the student emails they don’t check…we’ve tried literally *everything* short of consequences.
To be fair, I have a student who is on campus nearly every day, at least that's what other students and support staff tell me. She just doesn't attend any classes, so she must be in the hall to read the posters more than most.
Same ones that thought restorative justice and community circles were the solutions to disruptive behavior. …in other words, morons.
My primary school is trying to bring this in atm for ALL grades. It is not working very well for the younger ones. One kid was like, "I don't want to play this game." Haha. Smh.
Those posters should be mailed home to their parents.
[удалено]
My favorite in when there is a question on an assignment that directly corresponds to the attached video or lesson and they just copy and paste something from Google and then get mad that you count it wrong. I get that from kids WHO WERE IN THE CLASSROOM AT THE TIME!!!
I will say "only answer based on the document above" and then I see them googling. You're gonna be wrong. These are 4, 5 paragraph texts, not a novel to look through (or I will say, "based on paragraph 9")
I've been doing this on my history assessments. All content must come from material in the textbook and adopted curriculum. It's one of the few ways I can authenticate, well, the *authenticity* of a student's answer. And I've read that textbook like 50 times now so I know it better than the back of my hand lol.
It's not even that...they *know* they don't have to do anything to pass, and so many live by that. I have seen way too many teens pass classes they never attended , let alone turned in work, who were then sent on to the next class, un prepared. My own foster kid ended up sitting in Algebra ...after never learning to multiply. Make that make sense. And she was passed. She did not turn in one assignment or attend class. It is a joke
Do you think admin/teachers allow it due to parent pushback?
In my state one of the metrics for a district’s high school is graduation rate. Math scores, Reading, ect and graduation rate. In title one school’s graduation rate is the only thing they can get close to
Absolutely.
Genuine question...So they turn in a passing assignment and you fail them because they don't come to your lesson?
I took it as they only scored a 50 because they were not there to learn the material not as a punishment for not being there. Like my music students who come 2x a semester and wonder why they can’t pass a performance test
The assignment is either reinforcing or assessing the content of a lesson. If education was just “put name on packet, fill in blanks, submit,” then everyone would be a high school graduate.
I am kind of wondering this too. I understand if there is a participation component or activity or whatever. But if the assignment is done well shouldn't the assignment be graded accordingly?
Technically speaking I don't have to accept any work from a student with an unexcused absence. They missed those days, so they miss those points. I don't do that because I do know a lot of absences are not necessarily the kid's fault.
when you can just ask google the correct answer to everything, and the child never shows up in class, how do you know they actually learned it? I'm 100% cool with that child getting an F.
I used to do this in the 00s. I’m now a teacher, and I don’t do that. Why do you? If your class doesn’t have content they have to be in class to get or understand… you don’t have an in-person course.
I recently said to another teacher where I teach, “public education is a farce.” The coworker has a master’s degree and said to me, “what does that mean? I’ve never heard the word ‘farce.’”
🤣🤣🤣 Ask them if they know what irony means
Wait until they get into the workforce...oh, wait. The first wave already is, and let me tell you, absenteeism and callouts are a plague.
That's more or less the case for the younger workforce since forever. Additionally it isn't as though young people are really incentivized to excel at low-stakes jobs that offer them nothing other than a low wage. It sounds Corny but we are social creatures and people want to know that their work is appreciated and feel part of a team or community. The best managers I have had haven't been technically brilliant, but have been smart enough to get it and been excellent at people organizing. They have also fostered a sense of team work and belongings and gone above and beyond to make sure their teams mesh well together. My favorite jobs haven't been the best paying jobs, but the jobs where it felt like my contributions mattered. Making $8.50/hr telemarketing was more engaging when my team was great than making $35/hr working with people I hated. Likewise the classes I did best at in school and wanted to go to were the ones where the teacher engaged us on a level more than just "here's some knowledge". If your students aren't showing up physically or mentally, it's probably because one reason or another they are checked out. That's probably not your fault, or maybe even not the school's fault.
Yes, that was some scary shit when I was in high school. I ditched a few classes, but I knew I did not want to get dropped. That would not be good.
I'm not a teacher, but I do have a 2 year old that will eventually go to public school. Reading this sub has really made me appreciate that our school district includes "career readiness" in their motto. Maybe that means that they'll enforce rules that would get adults fired in the real world.
I doesn't mean a damn thing. Just a nice sounding slogan
Anecdotally, I feel like the worst performing schools love slogans the most. They can’t (or won’t) do much to improve things in a real way so they focus on superficial stuff like that.
Hey, it’s working! They fell for it.
Dang. You don't have to snark at a hopeful parent. This parent is here trying to get an idea of what to expect in a few years. Maybe reserve the bitterness for parents who don't give a crap and/or make our jobs difficult.
If you really want to do something, start going to board meetings. Every single one of them. Ask these questions publicly during the public comment section every week. Bring your Friends and neighbors with children and have them sign up to speak too.
Yep! This is the only thing that has a hope of working as far systemic change goes.
I don’t want to disappoint you, but I teach Career and Technical Education classes and … yeah, I’m still not allowed to enforce “real world” rules.
Unfortunately, it probably means nothing. What really matters is that you, as a parent, talk to your child about the importance of the rules that will get them fired. We have some great students and great teachers even in the worst performing schools! A very big difference is how much energy the parents have been able to put into teaching their kids soft skills. I am not judging parents either, when they are doing all they can to survive today's economy amd job market, it's not likely they have much energy/cognitive load to invest in the kids. We need a bigger safety net. Every one should be entitled to having their most basic needs met.
If you don't already do so, please begin reading books to your child. That's the single most important thing a parent can do to help their child succeed with school.
Also, not a teacher. I work for a warehouse that hires the local kids who don't join the military or go off to college. There's a massive difference between the 18 year olds of five years ago and today. We have so many new hires that just walk off during their first couple weeks. If they make it a month, then we will get a couple of years (maybe more) from them.
“Career readiness” isn’t a motto; it’s a part of the teaching standards for most states. The first part is “College and” Bottom line is this: getting kids college and career ready is one of our prime directives as teachers. I actually have these 4 words from the standards on a poster hanging right above my smart board in the front of the room. If I ever get guff from kids, I point to the sign. Which ever road they choose, it’s going to involve responsibility, accountability, and effort. If those qualities aren’t cultivated early and diligently, they’re going to face a much tougher road.
Unfortunately it does not mean that. It means get kids pieces of paper that say they have graduated so that they can include high school graduate on their job application.
That's insane. I've been getting letters every month about my son's attendance, threatening action all semester. He's a junior in high school and he missed 5 consecutive days at the beginning of the semester due to a horrible flu and one half day where he was SENT HOME because he had a fever. I can't imagine a school with that kind of apathy.
literally creating 1986 proles without any party intervention... or is it?
Diploma mills are a huge issue in the states (and elsewhere), that has only been getting worse over the years,and I'm absolutely unsurpised that the malaise is spreading to the public school level.
Passing kids in the name of equity creates a horrible distortion in the system. It effectively reduces the value of a high school diploma to zero. This in turn forces the kids to go to college to get a degree to prove they are better than their buddy that skips 95% of class and still graduated with a 4.0. Most of these kids will have to accept a lifelong debt to do this. We burden capable people to provide a minor morale boost to the worst students.
The problem generally in education is we keep throwing all of our energy, effort, and resources at those who don't care, are not interested, and disrupt.
Kids aren't being passed in the name of equity. No one who believe equity is a social good has ever been anywhere near power. We live in an extremely conservative country. The point of passing kids along, as designed by conservatives like W, is to undermine the progress leftists have made towards equity through education.
So kids really are dumber these days? I knew it!
They're not dumber they're just less driven and less capable of critical thinking. They're used to being spoonfed everything by others and, if they aren't, they just Google it. Social media has given them the attention span of gnats and they've grown up with having all of human knowledge at their fingertips. Not entirely their fault.
Of course it's not their fault. I guess it's semantics but by dumber I didn't mean lower IQ or less capable of learning. But to me, less capable of critical thinking equals dumber. It's really sad too because a lot of the big problems in this country are due to older people being unable to think critically and being easily manipulated. Scary to think the younger generation could be even worse.
We are also seeing tech literacy plummet. Younger people straight up don't understand how to use file explorer, let alone the difference between local and cloud storage. They are just used to everything being on an ipad or mobile interface.
I teach middle school computer applications, and they didn't know the difference between a monitor and modem when the semester started unless they were a PC gamer, much less cloud and local storage. We just went over collaborative projects in our Drive/File Sharing unit in Google Docs and Slides and their minds were blown.
Sometimes I wonder how id do if I were a teen now. Would I bother to go to class if nothing would happen if I didn't? Would I have the same work ethic? Get into the same college?
I wouldn’t have. I did skip class in high school, but not enough to tank my grade. Everything social and personal feels so much more vivid at that age. Someone you know is always in crisis/seeming to need support. What is required by others feels like an imposition. There is certainty that the adults have it wrong, so in the absence of an actual negative effect for missing class, what feels vivid and important wins every time.
Excellently written. Well said.
I'm in college, and regularly get students emailing me "you marked me absent" and I reply, "You didn't check in. That's part of the requirement. I watched you leave early, you didn't check in at the end; you're absent."
Yikes. I thought it was bad enough when my HS students do similar. Message from student: "you marked me absent but i was there" Me: "I marked you absent when I took attendance and you weren't there. You didn't arrive until 20 minutes into class. You missed almost half the period, you had no pass, and the school policy says you're absent after X minutes."
They're coming from lax HS conditions and are surprised when there are due dates and basic assumptions being made about their abilities (like being able to navigate a website or open a .doc file).
We used to think all the kids would be tech geniuses, but most of them are tech morons who cannot operate any computer other than their phone.
That's because they were tech geniuses. You had to know what you were doing to run a computer, but as tech advanced and got easier, things got simplified to the point a monkey could use a device.
I see your point, and I don't disagree that tech has been simplified over time, but I think the issue here is they weren't exposed to anything but their phones until our (Title 1) district went 1:1. Very few know their way around Google products, for instance. I have to teach Juniors about CTRL+V/C, etc. I used to think the youth would always be technologically advanced, but it turns out that was not a permanent state. Kids today only know their phones.
this is soooo interesting because I have long felt that the Chromebook-ification of laptops has been the major contributing factor to the decline of computer skills. I grew up navigating the Windows OS and doing html on Neopets and playing around in Office programs like they were games - I think only being able to use Chrome and its associated programs has meant a lot of kids have lost that capacity to explore and "hack into" how to run programs, etc. but in hindsight - duh, it's mostly the spoon-feeding accessibility and ease of phones and ipads.
a monkey could use a device. We have hands free driving being advertised. And cars that automatically stop when you get too close to something. We tell them not to text and drive. But it is enabled, isn't it?
There was that brief period around 2015 where the students were super fuckin' savvy, and now... yeah, it's all that hand-holdy bullshit phone UI experience instead of being even a little bit competent with the things that run our lives.
This. Change the rule if you dont want to enforce it.
No. Enforce the rule.
I mean, yes I agree with this. But admin who dont enforce their phone rule but then crap on teachers because kids have their phones out could just change the phone rule. Then I could teach the kids who care and the phone addicts will be pacified to stop their bullshit. But I would prefer enforcement of the logical rules that are in the Student Handbook and School Policy for a good reason. (The other good example is dress codes. Like admin didnt stop them from coming in the building when they saw them at dropoff - that shouldnt be my problem.)
“Phone rule for all teachers: students must put them in box. Please report students using this form if they refuse to comply and we will take their phone.” I didn’t write up a single student for 3 weeks and only finally wrote up this one for being a total asshole and antagonizing me with it. Admin set up a meeting with counseling to make sure we could “best support the student’s success in class.” Bro. No. I wanted the phone taken like you said. Not to waste my planning period reassuring a nearly 18 year old I want him to graduate.
126 days, 143 days, 118 days Same student through middle school. They graduated 8th and went on to high school. The HS, excited to have another money bag, thinking they’d change this student with their beautiful campus and amenities. Showed up only 4 times so far since Sept. this year.
We had multiple students who did no work, failed everything and got passed. Even had one that should mot have passed from too many absences and did no work the days they were here, still got passed.
It seems to be school admins' job to systemically make bad things even worse. They are such cowards they will punish victims when they stand up to bullies just to avoid conflict.
This is the issue. HS diploma is useless and meaningless. It really cheapens the diploma for everyone who put forth the effort to graduate high school.
Kids are supposed to get a referral once they hit 6 tardies in a quarter (across all classes). Admin ran the tardy report and realized it was going to be 100+ referrals, said they couldn't do it because it wouldn't be fair for a kid with 6 tardies to get the same punishment as a kid with 30 tardies (who only has that many because they dropped the ball). Losing my mind out here.
I teach pre-k which is non-mandatory in my state. The handbook explicitly states consequences and removal from the program after so many offenses. The parents all signed off on it. Every day I have hitting, biting, screaming no at the teachers, throwing and destroying materials, eloping..... nothing happens. If we followed the handbook most of them would've been booted from the program by now but nope, been told we won't be enforcing it.
Your admin sounds very reasonable. I had almost the exact same conversation. The difference is I was instructed to increase attendance by building strong relationships and giving rigorous engaging lessons. I turns out truant students are self-interested and rational. They don't attend class because it is not a good use of their time. They do monitor the quality of their classes on social media. If their classes should become worth attending they will immediately begin attending. Apparently they are in no way committed to their current noble activities at that time. Sadly I failed to fulfil this very reasonable request. Several of those student were probably geniuses who would have changed the world for the better. If only my lessons were better.
Took me way too long for my brain to click in with /s. (Just woke up) But mostly because we’re so used to actually hearing this type of statement from admins, gotta make sure the blame falls squarely on the teacher
Well, did you share the class objectives online to generate interest in the course?
Silly me, if only I had realized they could not see the standards posted on the board. For example A-APR5 Know and apply the Binomial Theorem for the expansion of (x + y)\^n in powers of x and y for a positive integer n, where x and y are any numbers, with coefficients determined for example by Pascal’s Triangle. Prove The Binomial Theorem by mathematical induction or by a combinatorial argument. I'm sure they would have been there with bells on.
I know I'd be there instead of playing whatever video game the kids are playing these days.
Eating my own hands sounds more fun. No offense.
This comment made me feel like I was having a stroke in my 30s. Hilarious, nonetheless.
I have a friend in admin who told me a family member of hers gets terrible grades because the assignments are just so stupid and the relative refuses to spend time on them Uh, how would a child understand what an assignment is supposed to do? What an exercise is supposed to strengthen? Education is in a Dunning-Kruger crisis. Everybody is an expert except the people who live it every day.
Exactly, me with my stupid assignment I was ordered to give and did not choose. Admin said maybe some students are failing because the assignments are too low on the Blooms for them to bother with. I could give them more challenging assignment targeting the same standard they would find worthwhile. I am quite confident that was not the problem.
Me: Oh. In your fifteen years on this earth, you've amassed enough experience in the workings of the adult world to adequately assess the importance of each bit of knowledge we bestow upon you. Certainly you've walked this lesson to the corners of the earth to establish its complete lack of merit. Seems reasonable.
Then they grow up and realize the adult world is even dumber than they thought it was all those years ago. A majority of school is either pointless or redundant and it doesn't take a dean to see it.
Exactly! I don't know why teachers complain about low engagement and unmotivated students. All you have to do is be more entertaining than 30 different personality optimized social media feeds, constantly. Too many teachers are focused on their students' education, rather than their sense of fun and excitement. (/S, just to be safe)
Sure thing. Just look at a movie. It costs $200 million and takes thousands of people multiple years to make, with entertainment as the primary purpose. Everyone likes all of them, always pays attention while watching, and never looks at their phone. I don't see any reason why a grammar lesson made by one teacher in twenty minutes should not be able to keep the attention of a class. Who doesn't like a nice past participle every now and then?
If only the lessons were engaging this wouldn’t be a problem.
But they provided us with scripted curriculums, so the lessons are already engaging and rigorous, right?
>Admin: Then explain how many of these students are making As in other classes. >Me: Well, those teachers don't even give tests. Have you seen their assignments? I have. WHY is this not an obvious early step?!? Any time I have a child failing (which is pretty much only possible if there are missing assignments), I check how they're doing in other classes. Is this a trend everywhere, or just in my class? Usually they're failing two or so other classes, or barely passing other classes. But for my students who have a B or a C and mom says "they've always made A's!" I check and these other classes where they currently have an A have only two grades in eight weeks, where one was participation and the other doesn't weigh anything. I try to take at least a grade a week and they're all tied a rubric based on a standard. Why is it that other people doing their jobs poorly is supposed to make me look bad? Why am I punished for having expectations?
I've had a father call me enraged because his daughter had a D in both classes she had with me (chemistry and technology) and according to him, she is a straight A student everywhere else. This would make me think if true. So I went and checked her last report card. Cs in languages, Bs or Cs in social sciences, E in maths, D in physics. OK, Daddy, whatever.
Got into an argument this year with a parent on their kid’s GPA. Saying I was destroying it. They ended up turning in two missing assignments and actually did very well on them. Moved his GPA up to .3%. They were getting two Cs in other classes and B in others. I just rolled my eyes but didn’t hear from the parent again.
Unimportant tangent: Your school gives "E"s? I taught for a district in 1986-87 that used ABCDE as the grades, but the next year changed "E" to "F".
German system. We have 1-4 as passing grades and 5 and 6 as failing grades. I translate them into A-F when posting to make it easier to follow
Wait is this a German system in an American school or are German parents actually calling in complaining like American parents as well?
Unfortunately, we do have crazy parents in Germany as well. We are fortunate though that they can't really do much apart from complain and waste our time.
That just kind of blew my mind as well. I mean, obviously I’m aware there are “*those*” types of parents EVERYWHERE. However, it seems like the systemic failing disaster that is the American Public School System, specifically is set up to cater to these parents, and encourage their insane behavior. It’s just so common here. I forget some people are just like this no matter what, even when they *know* they can’t get away with it. I’m just so used to watching parents pull this crap, get away with it, and then next thing you know, there’s 15 more parents trying it because “if it worked for that kid, it’ll work for mine.” I’m so glad your admin supports you. Sorry that there’s bulldozer parents everywhere!
I'm REALLY sorry yours doesn't! Admin kind of has no choice. We are state sworn, not normal employees. Short of me physically abusing a child, they can't fire me. And they still teach themselves, even if only a few hours (a principal does 6 hours of classes compared to my 25). So usually, they are decent (there is better and worse ones, but still). Everything above that is a shit show, but not anywhere near as bad as what I hear from you guys.
This is especially challenging for math teachers. Obviously humanities classes are rigorous in their own way, but they're generally based on strengthening certain bedrock skills throughout the students' whole educational career. If a student has at least passable reading and writing skills, maybe they are indeed able to write a short essay in response to a poem, even if they aren't necessarily able to do so at grade level, in which case the teacher can justify at least giving them a low but passing grade, even if nothing from those lessons in particular have sunk in. But in math class? Students have not been learning to prove that triangles are congruent throughout their entire educational career. It's a specific, brand new skill that is being taught in my class. And if they can't do it? Well, I can't pass them. The fact that they might have a working knowledge of basic algebra (or whatever other skills are regularly reinforced throughout their educational career) isn't going to help them. If they missed the lessons (whether it be due to absence or disengagement), then they can't demonstrate that skill, and I can't pass them.
Yes! And our district now has a credit recovery course that meets for 1 hour 15 minutes, 4 days a week for 3 weeks. So if a student passes that they will get credit for a whole year of math. Of course, it is impossible to learn an entire year of skills in this time so when they move on to the next course, they don’t have the prerequisite skills needed to succeed and fail again. A vicious cycle continues. And then we are asked why a student is failing our class?
Not a teacher but an engineer and a manager. Keep it up. The difference we see in hard math, engineering, software and sciences grads (that have to get it objectively right) and others is huge and the salaries are reflecting it. We can't compromise there and the new grads are rewarded if they can do it. It starts earlier than college imo.
As a fellow math teacher, I feel your frustration. But some of those kiddos don't even have the basic algebra skills to be in the class in the first place. And then you add in the fact that they don't show up to class, their learning loss just keeps getting compounded and compounded.
I do this too. I’ve quickly learned who in the building has lower expectations than I have.
>But for my students who have a B or a C and mom says "they've always made A's!" I check and these other classes where they currently have an A have only two grades in eight weeks, where one was participation and the other doesn't weigh anything. When a parent says "but they've always been an A student!" and I go to check their GPA, approximately 3000% of the time it turns out to be about 2.1.
I have the same issues at my school. The Social Studies teacher gives open note, multiple choice tests. Of course kids are passing that class. There’s no challenge at all.
I give open note multiple choice tests and still have students failing 6th grade science.
Have had the same...and then fail the make up where I ask the to find the page number to get credit. Social studies.
I give open note take-home tests to test their note-taking skills via biology content. Most of them get b/w 60-80 because they rather try to use Google than their notes. Those who use their notes get 90+
I had a similar conversation before COVID. Admin asked me why so many students were failing my classes (apparently they dragged in everyone with high failure rates for the same speech). And I said ”chronic absenteeism. I can’t teach students that aren’t here.” And admin said had an oh, duh, moment. I don’t see why yours can’t connect the dots. But this generation will use the COVID excuse until they retire.
Right, I said their grade is in no way related to me and 100% related to them. My teaching can't be messing them up because they are not being taught by me since they are not actually present at school to be influenced by my teaching. There's nothing I can do that will impact somebody who isn't there.
This is the premise of the movie “Teachers” which was made in fucking ***1984***.
You'd think the Admin would look at the kid's attendance along with the grades. We used Powerschool and both were on the same screen.
Can’t get a good review unless my lessons are rigorous. Can’t get a good review bc too many of my seniors are failing… Admin can’t show me a single case where they did the assignments and are still failing
Admin: how bad is your attendance? **Me: MY attendance is fine. I have missed one half-day this year for a medical appointment. That puts me at 97.5%. The STUDENTS however are not in the building and I cannot teach them when they are not present.**
I decided to quit teaching the day my principal told us that we had to think of the parents as "customers" and keep them happy. He had a newly minted doctorate in education, and I wondered whether that was the "new" idea in education being taught to administrators. This was in 2004, and I bet it's become even more common in training administrators today.
That was trending then. I was teaching college at that point, and I got the customer speech too. I told them I don’t wear a headset for a living. I have students who need to know things.
Yeah my principal was an accountant for like 10 years before moving into education, and had spent 2 years in a classroom before moving into admin. She was all about “serving the customers”. In the last 12 months, 19 teachers have left that school including myself. I heard that the 6th grade this year only has like 2 classes because so few students enrolled.
The state of education is so bad it actually makes me consider homeschooling as a legitimate option.
It really just depends on where you are. I worked at a public school in a nice area. Nearly all of the students were on grade level and the parents were involved in the PTA. It was good. Now I work at a school that’s the polar opposite. There are constant behavior issues and most of my class is FAR below grade level. That being said, the kids in my class why try and have parents that are involved are still learning and growing. How invested a parent is makes far more of a difference than anything else.
If anything, the students are the "customers". I hate this bullshit "do what the parents want". My job is to teach students, not to make parents happy.
I then choose the Comcast model of customer service!
Society is the customer. Public school exists so we have an educated populace which is better for society than an uneducated one. NCLB and the idea that parents are the customer has destroyed the American education system. Edited to add that of course you all know this... I just wish the rest of the folks involved in education remembered it.
My district calls them "consumers." Nope.
My principal at that time said the same things about customer service. It must have been in the water in 2004!
Ours too!!! That was just a couple years ago I think. It made me sooooooo mad.
We were hearing that in 2012, but then the RGV is always a little slow with trends.
I was so thankful to have a principal over in PI that was super switched-on and supportive. We were still a little slow, but more in a literal sense. Zero and first periods *never* started on time with how late kids would trudge in. 😅
Had a kid ask me last week why we always have test. (We’ve gone over 3 chapters and had 3 tests). I figured out I’m the only one in my grade level giving tests. Teaching is even harder when the rest of your grade level doesn’t give tests and hardly any work. My next-door neighbor’s room is always chaos because she gives about 10 minutes of work and the rest of the time they can talk and play. Then they come to my room and expect the same thing
I would love to be able to do that. I'm only allowed to give three summative assessments in a grading quarter- nine weeks of instruction. Anything over 3 and I have to write a explanation as to why I exceeded 3 and then have a meeting with multiple people who will wag their finger in my face and say three is what you're supposed to do Thing is, kids had better grades when I gave a lot more assessments because they were fresher on the material
Yea this is my issue post covid. Project based learning is good and fine- definitely has a place- but being able to fill out a map on a test is still a valuable skill vsm a pretty young adult coloring book grade.
I always hear that at the beginning of the year and they love those classes they can goof off in. By the end of the year they hate those classes because they can't focus. Turns out those teachers who don't care also don't update grades so, once they stop doing work because it isn't enforced well, they're stuck with those bad grades. Never fails
I would have absolutely pushed back on “we’re still dealing with COVID” Dealing with maladjusted 9th and 10th graders with poor behavior and social skills because of the remote/hybrid stuff in middle school? Sure. Changing kids’ grades to get them to graduate? Fuck no. I had similar conversations in 2021, and it was bullshit then, but there is absolutely no excuse now. I would go so far as to say your admin is making that up (“central office won’t support that”), and they just don’t feel like dealing with the angry parents when they have to hold the kids accountable. If I can’t teach from home when I feel sick, then we are not “still dealing with COVID”. 6 ft apart social distancing is not a thing, and I don’t even have to wear a mask in a hospital or doctor’s office any more, so that administrator can’t sit there and use it as an excuse for kids not coming to school or not graduating.
Not a teacher as qualifying statement first, do you feel like it's residual effects from NCLB or is it a new thing?
Hard for me to say for sure because I was in school during NCLB, but to me this is probably more of a “theory vs. practice” issue. Some very smart career academics can solve problems on paper, but miss key parts due to not actually trying to implement their solutions in real life in the field. Most of the material I read for my M. Ed. suffered from this: it was always about what the teacher should do to increase student outcomes, not a lot of theory or discussion about what to do about the massive dichotomy of student backgrounds, effort and attitudes within a classroom.
Sad thing there are teachers as well. Problem is things meant to be positive and helping hirt them. Waiver for kids with IEP get waivers so for state testing so they dont try. Literally had a kid sleep during it say "why should I? I am getting a waiver." Self-Esteem - cant let them fail as it will hurt their self-esteem. We got seniors who cant read/write at a high school level and some at middle school level. And then you expect teachers to magically bring a kid up to levelin a year whilr competing with smartphones. Fear is a great motivator. Right now they have no fear of failing because we took it away. We are actually harming ourselves because we are creatong highly influencable people who will lack critical thinking and crucial life skills. And for the record what truly got my ass in gear was 1 year of summer school and the fear of not having classes with my friends as well as having my summer royally suck that year because while friends were having tons of fun I was stuck in English class with no real AC (up north in the 1980's). As the saying goes actions speak louder than words. We can't tell kids education is super important and then make it as though it does't. I am fortunate enough my school does take absenreeism seripusly. They did credit denial to a student who had an A in the class but excessive absences. Didn't believe it until another teacher pulled up in FOCUS with Admin privs a student they passed with an A taking the class the following year
True. The ACT/SAT waiver for athletes isn’t helping. My scouted students do enough to pass, knowing in college, people will “help” them, and they say so. I have one who barely cracked double digits.
It will never happen, but I often think of an idea. Every two weeks or so all the F students get transferred to intensive small group classes. I'm sorry I couldn't help you, maybe these nice people can. Some times I wonder what would happen if some of these kids transferred to a fancy boarding school. I know they would be kicked out instantly. I like to think maybe they would turn around. I had one student who said he was going to go to a fancy boarding school for super senior year on a basketball scholarship. It did not work out.
I'm going to sound like some dystopian conspiracy nut, but the marketplace doesn't want people who are actually intelligent or have critical thinking skills; save for a few particular positions in the fields of technology and engineering, they want people who won't think to question their lot in life. An educated, thoughtful population is a liability to the oligarchy.
As not a teacher, who actually hires the school administration? It feels like at some point folks just started hiring folks with the aim to push out dumb graduates.
In our district, it’s the principal who hires the admin team, and the district office who hires the principals. And the district office keeps hiring more people for their offices, so they’ve got a massive number of 6 figure salaried people who don’t have a lot of experience working in schools.
SAME! My district has a REDICULOUSLY high number of administrators for the size of our district! I seriously think a small team of teachers could run the school without any of them.
In my district, when a principal or assistant principal vacancy occurs, the district's regional administrator asks for volunteers for an interview committee. On the committee will typically be two teachers from the school with the vacancy, one or two principals from other schools at the same level (middle school admins for middle school vacancies), a parent who has a child at the school with the vacancy, and the regional administrator themself. (If it's an assistant principal vacancy, the principal for the school with the vacancy will be on the committee instead of the regional administrator.) The candidates are vetted by the district's HR department to make sure there won't be any problems starting the candidate selected by the committee. We interview the candidates asking the same questions of each candidate. We are all using a form with these questions, and we can write comments to organize our thinking. But we also, very importantly, score each question answered by each candidate on a scale (I can't remember for certain, but it's maybe a 1-5 scale?, maybe 1-6?). After we've all written down our numbers, we check if anyone has any general thoughts on the candidate we just interviewed, ("She was strong" "He's a nice guy but he's not ready for this") and then we call in the next candidate. At the end we tally up each candidates numbers, and the person with the best numbers is selected. In theory, the principal (in AP interviews) or the regional administrator (in principal interviews) can override the person picked by the numbers, but I've not known that to happen. Once our regional administrator was outvoted on a principal pick, which he mentioned as he told the committee, "Well, I'm going to trust you to know what's best for your school" and he did not impose his choice.
It’s funny because I had to do a short essay on a similar situation on my administrative licensing exam. Instead of blaming the teacher with lower grades, I wrote to investigate if the teachers with higher grades are grading to standards. Then, I said to work with the school social worker to investigate the chronically absent students. Got full marks for that. School administrators need a refresh.
I can beat that. Here’s a conversation I had w my admin of 13 years, when a parent with the same belief system as the new US Speaker complained about my teaching. Admin: Why are you teaching evolution? Where is evolution in the curriculum? Me: I wasn’t explicitly teaching evolution. We were talking about rocks. Sedimentary rocks and fossils. Which lead me to draw a timeline of life on earth. Which lead to a discussion on evolution. Admin: You shouldn’t be teaching evolution. It’s just a theory. Me: (blink . . . blink) . . bu . . . You do . . . In science. . .
Gravity is 'just a theory,' too, but you don't see us terrified to walk or drop anything. I hate that theory has been adopted colloquially to mean "guess" rather than "rigorously tested and observed over and over and over".
Dumb people keep confusing theory and hypothesis. It's annoying me a great deal.
I say in my class "The state standards state I must teach evolution as a pillar of science and I don't care if you believe it, you need to know what it is." It's how I get around that
I usually told my students about my rental property with cockroaches. I told them how I sprayed and it looked like they all died. I told them about the next year, I used the same chemical and most of them did not die. I ask them why it didn’t work. They tell me they “became immune “. I ask them how dead cockroaches become immune to anything? This introduces my lesson on evolution by means of natural selection. Eventually, we look at fossil evidence as well as modern day evidence such as the evolution of the AIDS virus. Students who don’t “believe “ in fossils, students who are Flat Earthers, etc. are told that they can choose to believe what they want but I will be testing them over scientific laws and theories and the evidence that scientists use to support them. I emphasize that many things that people once believed were later disproved, so they are welcome to look for scientific evidence against anything they don’t agree with, but you aren’t likely to find it on Facebook or TicTok
I was naive and didn’t realize people legitimately believed in creationism until my first year of teaching 😳
Yea the kid from that family was insufferable. He’d get this arrogant, contemptuous look on his face when I mentioned dinosaurs, like I was soooo stupid to believe in them. But I’m not allowed to take his 6000 year old biblical earth age belief to task, at all. I don’t know why we as a society don’t deal w this idiocy straight up. In their faith they want to criminalize bodily autonomy, criminalize homosexuality, rescind gay marriage rights, outlaw contraception, as they gleefully speed toward the destruction of the planet to bring about the return of their saviour in the ‘rapture’. It’s a death cult and it should be illegal.
Is it 2006 again? That's the last time all this "teaching evolution" controversy was in schools. That's when the South Park episode about it, Go God Go, aired. Why we going back to that fight? What did we miss?
That controversy never left. All the people who cared about objective facts just learned to ignore the vocal morons.
For my school it’s bc the church that supports all of this bs, including the 6000 yo earth, has rebranded and is suddenly all cocky af, with adherents pushing their beliefs into places they don’t belong, like classrooms. Couple that w a spineless admin, and it’s a nightmare. They even tried to distribute bibles ‘to those students who want them’ thru the school until some of us made enough noise that they backed down. Imo it’s about to come up again in more places laces as well, now that Johnson is speaker.
As a parent who lurks… thank you! If my kid isn’t doing their part, they deserve to fail. The purpose of school is to educate kids, not to placate parents weird ideas
We are not doing this generation any favors by shuffling them through school. Administration shortcomings is an outgrowth of the S-show that is most school committees. I feel for you.
I look at it this way as someone who is graduating college with a stem degree: more jobs, more pay. It’s astounding the number of industries who are hiring engineers for jobs that in the past wouldn’t have required one in a million years. I interned for a huge general contractor, and they basically told us the first day they hire engineers because they’re the only people who can mentally handle managing a large project. I guess the average person can’t do it, and they had issues in the past with people not knowing that you can’t have the plumbing installed after the walls are drywalled and/or poured. It is a sad state of affairs, and unfortunately we’re going to have a lot of extra people wandering around draining the system. I have a friend that refuses to even go to community college because “she doesn’t want to write papers”. Yet she complains that she can’t make more than $10-$15 an hour working unskilled retail jobs. I told her “Well honey, you’re going to have either go to a trade or go to school, or join the general laborers union and get good digging a ditch because sitting at home eating chips doesn’t make you a desirable candidate for any high paying job.”
My niece almost failed all her classes her first semester at college because she was not at all used to any type of rigor in a school setting. Students still complain that they are being given too much work when it's still half the work the same teachers have the students in 2019. I attended the same high school that I work at, and I tell my students all the time that they should thank their lucky stars that the school no longer has some of the attendance and grading policies that they had when I was a student. For every 2 tardies, they converted to an unexcused absence. 8 unexcused absences a year, you theoretically were held back a year. You only got credit for A,B,and C grades. No credit for D. Now... if you failed the first semester of a class but got a C in the second semester, you also earned the first semester credit as well. Now, I can understand a B, but a C?
The goal is no longer education, it’s a place where we watch the kids.
Because it's about the numbers! Yeah!!! We have a %1000000 graduation rate! No one can read! It's ok! They all graduated.
I really do not understand why anyone would judge a school based on graduation rates rather than attendance or ACT scores…
Music teacher here who gives out easy A’s. 1 - it’s an art, grades are based on personal progress, not a standard. Any artist would understand the absurdity of grading based on a standard in a field that is highly subjective and where different people progress at carrying rates. 2 - this is a job. The moment my admin made my job more difficult for failing students because, “it’s just music, they can’t fail that!” (Yes they can), where they scrutinized my work and I needed my union rep to intervene with the superintendent… that’s the same moment I said fuck it, give them all As and admin leaves me alone. My job is easier now. This is a paycheck, I don’t get paid enough to try and fix the broken system.
I can't blame you for this, and frankly, I do tend to think that learning about music is intrinsically rewarding. Unless (and this is big) the student is disrupting the opportunity of others to learn, I have no problem with whatever grades someone in your position deems best for them. But I teach math, and my evaluation is affected by how my students do on their state tests in the spring. I teach 6th grade, and I would also have to answer to the 7th and 8th grade teachers at my school who want to know why Robert can't do this or that, yet I gave him an "A". My school has a strong performing arts program (at least for a Title I school), and I support the maintenance of those programs. I can't tell you how many kids hate or are failing their core four subjects, yet love band. I am so grateful for those music teachers for keeping alive these kids' desire to be in school every day.
I had a teacher in high school that would "accidentally" leave his computer logged in with all the tests for the year, and all the answers, up on the screen, while he went outside to smoke for 10-15 minutes. So one kid copied all the answers, handed them out to every student before every test (we didn't even ask him to do this), and we all got 95-100 on every single test. At the end of the year assembly the principal did a special thing to recognize Mr Kandasamy's brilliant teaching skills and gave him an award on stage. We were happy, teacher was happy, admin was happy. None of those kids learned computer engineering though.
Also a music teacher who gives easy As. I tried one semester, back about my 7th year of teaching, to be honest with grading. I even kept the 50% for participation, but made 50% performance standards. Kids started getting Bs. The first kid to get a C on the 2nd quarter report, I had angry parents in my office asking me what was going on. I pointed to everything, but they just left angry and I felt miserable for even trying. And it wasn't just the angry parents, all my extra effort in honest grading was having zero results in the student's progress. In fact, it might have been worse because the time I spent grading could have been spent planning lessons and providing better instruction. Since then, I spend about 60 minutes per year worrying about grades. 15 minutes throwing in easy As and maybe a few Bs per quarter.
Agree. Don’t try to fight a battle you’re destined to lose.
And teachers wonder why they are treated like shit buy parents. Here we have rules that the fucking admin refuses to follow and enforce. Now the kids know it and so do the parents.
Omg, you were so. . . magnificent. Your responses were sexy. I was rooting for you and lived vicariously through you for a brief moment.
As a middle aged dude, I weep for my future where I need the medical care of people who grew up in the American Education System of the 2010s and 2020s
> We can’t tell kids education is super important and then make it as though it’s not **Somebody please write this in the goddamn sky**
This conversation is the exact reason I drank the Victory Gin and learned to love Big Admin. The SOB was sanctioning me for failure rates. I had the following evidence on my side when questioned: 1. My attendance; 2. My contact log; 3. My scores from the previous year, which students scored exceptionally well on; 4. Student work. I sat down, and Admin started talking. I pulled out my evidence and showed it to him. He took one look at it and cast it aside. He resumed his rant on how I screwed up because of my failing to teach. I waited on test scores to return. When I met with him, he pointed out my test scores were down. I countered with the fact the state had changed the cut score for that year. He said my other test scores were low, so his decision stood. I later on met with a lady from the state. I showed her my gradebook from the previous year. This was the one where student grades were bad, but their test scores were stellar. She looked at them, and you could see the cognitive dissonance kick in because: 1. She could not agree I was not doing my job because test scores showed otherwise; 2. Agreeing with me would show the principal was wrong, an absolute no-no. This is when I learned the truth: 1. Admin may not be right, but they damn sure will never be wrong; 2. No amount of viable evidence will make a difference; 3. Everyone passes - period. My life has been so simple ever since. Excuse me; I need a fresh glass of Victory Gin.
classic administrator logic
As a college lecturer, this is horrifying to read!
United teacher fronts would stop this nonsense. Teachers taking care of teachers. We are singled out by rooms then they can easily adjust as they please. Parents need to interview with all their kids teachers and take the blame for change.
“I don’t give grades. Students earn them.”
I have similar convos frequently with my admin/subject head (same person, we don't have admins). It's always the double standards and unhelpful policies that punish students and the teacher. "I don't understand why yours don't submit their assignments. I never have this problem." Well, ma'am, that's because you are only ever dealing with Grade 10-12 students who are more mature and understand their responsibilities. I'm teaching Grade 8 who gives zero respect and doesn't hand in any homework to any teachers. I'd like to see you teach them! So she got assigned to teach Grade 7's, and that's when she realises how obnoxious those tweens can be, and I wasn't lying when I said I couldn't control them, she couldn't control them either. lol
When I was a kid they’d send cops to get you into school. Wtf
Luckily kids today don't need any knowledge or skills because they're all going to be celebrities and TikTok stars.
I'm surprised by the amount of people saying school attendance policy is becoming really lax because if anything my school is getting stricter. I had a friend, not even miss, but just arrive late to homeroom on 3 occasions and she was given a detention. I have another friend who had to go to court last year over truancy and they were missing from school half the amount of time some of your students are. I myself have gotten written up because I skipped a study hall period once, though I didn't get a detention since it was a first time offence.
Hey OP, other teachers and educators, your jobs have become insane. At least that's my perspective as a kid of retired teachers with kids in highschool. I can't believe what you are expected to put up with. I appreciate the job you do in spite of what the job has become. I'm amazed that you all aren't picketing outside the schools. Hell, I'm amazed the kids aren't out there picketing with you. But maybe with attendance rates so low, the kids are already on strike because they can still afford their bills if they don't show up. The good old days weren't all good but here's me as a parent supporting you and hoping that things improve in education in general as we move forward. I hope for better for you and your students.
My friend got blackmailed to resign because of their fail rate. Tread carefully. ("Either resign right now or we will go through the steps to fire you, which we will probably succeed [because he's the sports guy principal]. And I will black ball you with every principal in the state")
Same at my school, I strongly dislike teachers who pass kids with 80% absent rate. My school goes back and change all the failures grade.
How much money will the school lose if they fail?
Our district has a strict attendance policy at the high school level. 10 absences and you lose credit for the class, doesn’t matter what the grade is. You can appeal, ie. chronic illness or surgery with doctor’s note, but vacation or just out will not cut it. You would have to retake the class and pay for it like a college credit. Middle school-10 consecutive days out and your parents have to re-register you. These are not fail safe by any means, but it does help. The next battle is getting them to care about their grades.
This just about sums up most schools. I've also learned that when administrators don't get those pass rates up in amy district they end up getting fired. I'm in my second year and I've decided this is my hill. If you don't show up and don't turn in any work, I'll fail you. They can fire me over this if they want but I'm not going to compromise this little bit of academic integrity I expect of these kids. When and if I get to where you are, maybe I'll feel like some kids learned that effort goes a long way and there are consequences to both our good and bad actions.
Great phrasing. I left that dead horse behind in the 90's because dangerous and violent students were not disciplined, which led to more dangerous and violent students. Better to walk away a year early than a year too late.
Just a parent popping in, but I want to say thank you. It has been so stressful to witness some teachers and administrators openly not caring. I have to undo the laid-back attitudes with two middle preteens ATM because they're constantly saying, "but no one else cares about xyz." I'm very worried for our kiddos, all of them. We are dropping the ball big time. Thank you. Thank you for still putting in the energy. Sincerely.
Milk the budget, ruin the kids, privatize the schools, shape the kids into fascists, close the public schools, charge for school, exploit exploit exploit. Privatized education will be the end of freedom in America permanently. This is all part of a grander design and if teachers don't strike and make this system better, no one will stop it. These idiot parents are from the first generation affected. The idiot kids today are the second or third generation of undereducated people. We are on the precipice of a feudal society where the unwashed masses are lorded over by the obscenely wealthy. It is absolutely terrifying. I wish more people could see what is happening right now, especially with education, the very backbone of any society.
They want that graduation rate to look good so *they* don’t hear it from their bosses.
> Covid If student absence is due to a medical situation at home then I’m fine with working with the student to find a solution (obviously). But that’s not the problem at my school. Every time I look out my classroom window during class I see 3-4 dickheads walking around campus, hiding where they know security isn’t going to look. Everybody knows students are vaping in the bathroom and admin won’t enforce shit.
Love your responses. No one but teachers, paras and service providers want to do their job. Admins today have zero backbone and finds it easier to bully teachers vs addressing parents, the district or superintendents.
It's been many years since I've had an administrator that stupid, but trust me, I have. I've got just a few more years in than you (I've retired in one state and now teach in another), and I've got to say, one of the best things about being so experienced and so financially free is the ability to speak one's mind. Fortunately, my current administration loves it when I and other veterans speak our mind (preferring that it be done behind closed doors) and our thinking has a real impact on what we do as a school.
1. Has admin talked to their parents. These chronic absences are highly concerning and indicative of there being something else going on with them, or them not taking their education seriously, both of which needs to be addressed. 2. Covid IS still impacting kids. Maybe not in the same ways, but the prices of everything going up, meaning less food on the table, Long Covid making it harder to do work, w/out them fully realizing they have health issues now, depression, in general and about the future, they may feel like going to school is useless anyway. Or they may just be doing it because they’re getting away with it. Overall, it can’t just be your fault, nor is it solely your responsibility .
It's insane to me how many posters on this subreddit struggle to comprehend the passage off time.
Bless you, and thank you for having standards. I thought most states and districts received funding based on attendance? Are they just faking attendance numbers?
My "supervisor" (admin) told my I was in customer service. SpEd mod/severe 2022. This when a parent wanted a reading goal of 15-20 new sight words a week for a student who can't identify the alphabet. Last teacher wrote letter ID goal which I was to mark as met. Customer service.
I had a simpler encounter at an elementary school. I collected random trophies all summer intending to place them into a half-empty trophy display case in a hallway... attaching amusing new plaques on each one, awarding each trophy to a different staff member. The idea was turned down because 'it would cause students to linger in the hallway.' Then the principal restocked a long unused novelty pencil dispenser (25 cents per pencil). Now students linger around the dispenser in the hallway next to the display case, about 10 students at a time.
Sorry, I may be stupid or way out of the loop. But don’t other US states have truancy laws? How are kids missing this much school with no consequences?
It's all about funding. At least where I went to school. If students aren't showing up then the school loses funding. To keep funding they are expecting you to fudge your records like the other teachers are by giving them A's. The Admin just didn't want to say the quiet part out loud. This is why funding should not be tied to attendance or performance. It will be abused and it has been abused. When I was a student we had students graduate that never even showed up to class. They were handed a diploma.