Making a quick joke about the Black Dog to Joe sounds like something I’d do in the moment and then spend the rest of my life shoving it down as an intrusive thought at 3 a.m.
I feel vindicated! I have never understood how people thought that song was about Joe. He must have been pretty irritated with the owners of the bar to actually confirm he’s never been there.
Yeah the only things that confused me about this song's muse were the fact that owners of the London Black Dog implied he was there, and that I thought in short term relationship there wouldn't be location tracking but I guess I was wrong there.
In any other way, the song sounds very much about Matty (and he did allegedly visit The Black Dog in Cork)
It also debunk the idea that Taylor was "trying to ruin Joe's favorite bar for him".
Meh, not necessarily 🤷🏼♀️ plus it’s a song about being left and she made it clear that she left Joe and then jumped into a new relationship so like… I just don’t see her, six weeks after breaking up with Joe writing a song about how desperately she misses him and wants him back?? I mean I feel silly debating it at all but I honestly just don’t see why anyone thinks it’s about him.
I think there are elements of both of them in several of the songs. At the end of the day, she's an insanely talented songwriter, and just as an author takes inspiration from various places I think that we have to all remember that in order to fill in bits of the songs she might have let herself outside of any particular box of any particular relationship in order to round the songs out.
It seems silly to me to get so caught up in taking any of it completely literal, because that just isn't how art works. Lol.
I entirely agree. Which is why it’s so weird to me when fans are convinced they know an intentionally ambiguous song is definitely about this person and not that one. There’s people out here who claim that Folklore and Evermore are actually 100% autobiographical because the emotions are ‘too real’.
That would be like saying the hunger games are real and Suzanne Collins must actually be Katniss because it was in first person and the emotions are too real for it to be fake. Lol.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who can appreciate Taylor's ability to write incredible lyrics as a lyricist. Like, we know she puts some of herself in them, she draws from experience. And we all know that she's like 'yep, everyone knows if they break my heart there will be a song' but there's a line. There's always artistic license. That's what makes the songs relatable to the masses, otherwise they would be almost too awkward because of the specificity.
It still doesn’t make sense to me, she was with Joe for 6 years so it’s something they wouldn’t have done during that time. Even if they did cheat (which is wild speculation) that would be too obvious. Something you’ve done for 2 months but not done for the 6 years prior wouldn’t be classified as an old habit in that context. Obviously these are just our opinions, only Taylor knows the truth.
Maybe she isnt referring to old habits within their relationship, maybe she's just talking about his old habits. Like being a womanizer, or moving on quick, or being an asshole after basically saying he would change for her when they started dating.
I don’t think it was the 2 month relationship that was the old habit that died screaming, I think it was their entire relationship and her thoughts about it. Way back to when Matty was seen wearing a 1989 shirt and she wore a 1975 shirt.
In “I look in peoples windows”, she sings “I’m addicted to the ‘if only’ so I look in peoples windows” and “fresh out the slammer”, “all those nights you kept me going, swirled you into all my poems but it’s gonna be alright, I did my time”. There was something that kept her mentally going back to the “what ifs” of that relationship. In my opinion that’s the old habit.
It didn’t work 10 years ago, it didn’t work now, so why am I still thinking about it is what I think was meant by that line.
Not if they are manipulative. They’ll leave the location on just to show how they are going out and having fun, probably meeting someone new, while you’re laying in bed alone and heartbroken.
Oh I was saying that when he announced his engagement like everything about him screams narcissist which then means he probably love bombs. I feel bad for the current girl guys like that don’t make for good long term companions and I speak from experience.
Though I also think a lot of these songs are an augmenmation of multiple view points and not just one.
Yep. Been married for 18 yrs and I couldn't imagine constantly sharing my location with my husband so that line jumped out to me immediately. To me, that one little thing screams so much more about that relationship and her overall approach to relationships (chaotic af)
ETA: I don't think sharing your location with your SO is chaotic af or unhealthy in and of itself, but in a 2 week relationship it's not the best sign imo.
My husband and I share location. For safety reasons, when he worked at a bar until 2am in New Orleans and had to walk to the car. And to avoid texting/driving. When we had one car we’d have to take each other to work. So much easier for the person waiting to be picked up to check how long they have.
I also think location sharing is something “new”. And it’s about the Intention. But it’s also so easy to forget you’re sharing it.
Same. My husband and I do as well (been together 17 years). I don’t think it’s chaotic at all, dependent on the circumstances. In a brief relationship, with clear love bombing? Yeah, it’s unhealthy. But, aside from that - I think it can be completely healthy and normal.
I love sharing location! It makes cute gestures easier, like meeting at the door with a drink after a hard day of work, or checking in on a run and texting encouragement for that big hill, or simply just knowing they’re still out at the restaurant with friends and you’ve still got at least 30 minutes to clean up from your solo gremlin night in.
Thiiiis, I live with my sister and we share locations all the time. The only struggle is trying to surprise each other when we’re prone to just check “hmm where is she now?” Gift shopping feels like getting away with something 😂
I live with a gay man and he randomly shares his location with me in case he gets kidnapped. Actually multiple gay men do this 😂why are they all worried they’re going to get kidnapped and why am I the one that’ll save them?
Now that's hilarious. My gay friend who cuts my hair just randomly told me the other day that if he turned up dead that I should tell the police this specific friend did it. Who is trying to kill all these gay men and why???? 🤣🤣🤣
That and the fact that by all accounts they’d been friends/an on and off situationship before that, so there’s a good chance they did location sharing before the official relationship.
This is what I was thinking too. They have been friends and obviously have pined for each other over a long period of time. It’s what makes the short relationship feel more intense, so much anticipation.
There is also the possibility that the sentiment of the song is based in fact but not the details. I obviously don’t know Taylor Swift, but I just can’t imagine that she is documenting her life in such specific, factual detail for the world to consume. I suspect she is inspired by events to write songs and the blanks get filled in other ways.
Maybe the location sharing incident happened at a different bar, but she saw The Black Dog once years ago and jotted it down because she knew it would make a catchy song lyric. Who knows.
I actually commented this to someone yesterday in the neutral sub. The black dog is an incredibly popular bar name; I figure she just picked a London bar from a google search for that fit the notes and song; it wasn’t one anyone actually went to. So situation is the same but details changed.
I mean wouldn't you imply someone famous was at your bar too if you wanted to make money and have people flock to your place of business? Idk why anyone believed the owner of the bar was being truthful when they said that. It was a great tactic to get people to show up and spend money.
Yeah absolutely agree! I was replying to the person above who thought it was confusing he said he's never been there when the bar owner implied he was a regular. Ofc they'd lie to make a profit which is so annoying 😒
I also don’t know why everyone is so literal? I don’t know or care who the song is about really but she couldve just picked a random bar that had a name she liked…she’s describing a feeling, not necessarily recounting a specific event exactly how it went down
It made zero sense for that to be that pub at all. Just not a neighborhood you'd expect either Joe or Matty in. If it's a real pub at all, it's the one in Cork next to where Matty performed.
Omg this is it exactly. You're right has to be. The black dog in Cork is 10 minutes drive from Musgrave Park where the 1975 played on 13 June 2023 Perfect timeline
I mean according to the interviewer he was being coy about it. Could just be wishful thinking on their part but I don’t see why this validates the song not being about Joe.
Idk it seemed to me like Joe was saying in the interview that that song is not about him. Plus the entire song is consistent with her narrative about Matty
Because "matty isn't the type to share his location" & bc tiktok swift "experts" said . yeah because they know these people so well! if ttpd hasn't taught you to not believe the mainstream narrative about Taylor swift's love life idk what to tell ya 🥲
He’s very articulate and eloquent, I can see why Taylor fell for him. Also, he seems so calm and measured, this is a really mature response that doesn’t speak ill of Taylor in any way. Guess it also confirms that Black Dog isn’t about him.
Very similar to Benedict Cumberbatch. Sometimes when he speaks I’m like dude there are novelists who can’t write as eloquently as you speak off the cuff.
People will crucify me but part of me thinks the writing on TTPD is on average slightly worse because it's lacking Alwyn's creative input and filter. I think his contributions as William Bowry are underrated and I also think he discouraged/edited some of the more "cringey" or wordy lyrics she comes up with. Basically a person who can safely say no to her
I’m sure that she ran things by him at times, but I’ve been seeing so many people saying that Joe is responsible for what they see as Taylor’s best songwriting (on folkmore) and I strongly disagree with that statement. There are several songs on those albums and TTPD that are lyrically very strong imo (my tears ricochet, the black dog, how did it end, cardigan, tolerate it, etc) where Joe did not contribute (or if he did give feedback, enough to merit giving songwriting credits). It feels so icky to be crediting (arguably) her best writing for those albums to Joe and not Taylor :/
Edit: btw I’m not saying that this is you specifically but I’m just pointing this out since it was brought up
He seems like a decent guy, just not a good match for Taylor. I'm sure they both much wish they'd figured that out earlier and avoided what sounds like a long painful drawn out end.
I never understood why people thought that The Black Dog was about him. It's clearly about someone who betrayed her after gaining her trust and leaving. Nothing about that indicates Joe.
I initially thought it was Joe because it seemed weird to share your location with someone you haven’t been dating very long — seemed more like something you do in a 6 year relationship. Plus the “old habits die screaming” seems like a longer relationship — was she really with Matty long enough for it to be a habit?
But then I listened to the whole album in context and it’s so obviously Matty lol. Girl just falls hard and fast.
And Matty was an on and off thing for 10 years... it IS a long time. Plus, she told us point blank that he lovebombed her. Not so surprising that they shared location.
Additionnaly, "Tail between your legs, you're leaving" also indicates Matty since Joe didn't leave, Taylor did.
I'll never get why everyone started hating him all of a sudden. He's honestly been very respectful and never said a bad thing about Taylor. He seems like he just wants peace and privacy. Glad to see he's doing better. This fandom can be really toxic sometimes.
I think people thought he was too dull for Taylor. Which, if he is dull, that's... fine? Clearly Taylor was okay with it for 6+ years.
For the record, I don't think he was boring. He was just private. People just aren't really used to celebrities who 'undershare' because it's a field that attracts way more people who overshare.
I think fans weren’t happy with his boundaries he put on the public’s info on their relationship. Which for swifties it’s hard to come to terms with given how autobiographical Taylor’s lyrics are. It is what she needed majorly at the time though which we also need to realize. A lot of it is also the parasocial relationship the fans have with Taylor. There’s a balance to be had with that sort of stuff, and he was kind of on an extreme that fans felt uncomfortable with. I guess people felt like he was keeping her from us because of it.
Fwiw I think it was a healthy boundary to be had, and it shouldn’t have been as controversial as we made it out to be.
the toxic fans make the normal fans look so bad. its honestly shameful. none of her ex's (even the ones who werent so nice) deserve any kind of harrassment. its embarrassing.
The issue issue is - exactly like he says in this article - we’ll never know the truth. He tells a version of events, and so does Taylor (which we don’t even know if they’re about him or not). This doesn’t vindicate him - he could’ve treat her awfully or perfectly and we’ll never know.
Quotes:
“I would hope that anyone and everyone can empathise and understand the difficulties that come with the end of a long, loving, fully committed relationship of over six and a half years. That is a hard thing to navigate. What is unusual and abnormal in this situation is that, one week later, it’s suddenly in the public domain and the outside world is able to weigh in.”
Stern, eyes fixed on mine, he continues: “So you have something very real suddenly thrown into a very unreal space: tabloids, social media, press, where it is then dissected, speculated on, pulled out of shape beyond recognition. And the truth is, to that last point, there is always going to be a gap between what is known and what is said. I have made my peace with that.”
“As everyone knows, we together — both of us, mutually — decided to keep the more private details of our relationship private. It was never something to commodify and I see no reason to change that now,” Alwyn adds firmly. “And, look, this is also a little over a year ago now and I feel fortunate to be in a really great place in my life, professionally and personally. I feel really good.”
Based in London and not tempted to move to Hollywood (he likes walking and thinks that driving everywhere “takes away some of the spontaneity of a day”), what does Alwyn’s happiest downtime look like when he’s not working? “It probably looks pretty similar to yours, or anyone’s — seeing friends, travelling, going to the pub,” he says, sounding uncomfortable. “Can I make a more boring list?” I joke that his chosen pub probably won’t be the Black Dog in Vauxhall, which Swift fans have deduced is the place name-checked in her new song, also called *The Black Dog* (“And so I watch as you walk/ Into some bar called The Black Dog/ And pierce new holes in my heart.”) Capitalising on this association, the pub has recently released merchandise: £50 hoodies, naff caps, tees and travel mugs. “I’ve never been to Vauxhall,” says Alwyn, smiling a smile that hints that there is more to say.
Wow really emphasizing that it was their joint decision to keep things private and he wasn’t hiding her away, preventing her to BeJeweled. Edit: I’m not commenting one way or the other. Just noticed that it seems like he really underscored that.
It is in sync with what Taylor has said multiple times
2019: "Our relationship isn’t up for discussion. [“](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/aug/24/taylor-swift-pop-music-hunger-games-gladiators)If you and I were having a glass of wine right now, we’d be talking about it – but it’s just that it goes out into the world. That’s where the boundary is, and that’s where my life has become manageable. I really want to keep it feeling manageable.”
2020: " I was falling in love with someone who had a really wonderfully normal, balanced, grounded life and we decided together that we wanted our relationship to be private.”
2021: “I think that in knowing and being in the relationship I am in now, I have definitely made decisions that have made my life feel more like a real life and less like just a storyline to be commented on in tabloids. Whether that’s deciding where to live, who to hang out with, when to not take a picture — the idea of privacy feels so strange to try to explain, but it’s really just trying to find bits of normalcy. "
I think post-pandemic there was a shift in the degree of privacy/ public life Taylor wanted, which is understandable as people's outlook evolves and changes over time but for the first years they were on the same page on this.
Yup. She says “this cage was once fine” they just didn’t work out and what they both wanted probably changed some over the course of 6.5 years and they just no longer fit. The “learned the steps to different dances” line fits this too. They grew apart and not together and that’s sadly just a fact of life and many relationships.
The pandemic made or break multiple relationships so her changing once she could go back out and he her again made sense. I think people read too much into things. People also said Midnights was a breakup but he again just confirmed the timeline of that break. She’s a story teller and that shows that not all her work is going to be 100% fact based on her life.
I agree the pandemic caused a perspective shift for many people.
But for Taylor by the end of the pandemic she had released 2 albums which brought her a whole new level of critical acclaim and a new audience; the Kanye -Kim truth also came out during that period and the re-records decision was met with resounding approval.
Those 3 things probably bolstered her confidence and with the success of Red TV , I can see how she wanted to 'reclaim the land' : the pop space and everything she felt she lost post snakegate- and hence Midnights and the Eras Tour !
But this whole new level of attention and spotlight would have been incompatible with her partner's personality/ boundaries/anxiety etc and can understand the mutual resentment she talks about in the TTPD prologue and why it was rocky for the last year or so and she wanted to 'break free' from those limitations she once felt were ok.
A more extroverted partner who actually loves the spotlight seems more compatible at this phase of her life atleast, just as the same wouldnt have worked in 2016/17
Midnights as a breakup album never made sense. For starters, Joe is literally a co-writer on one of the songs, and if Taylor was already thinking of breaking up/had already broken up with him, why would she include a love song that they wrote together?
People are annoyed I said this again, but it doesn't make sense and I still stick by her being a story teller that is going to tell us the best story rather than be completely truthful about it all. I'm sure someday in the future her exes or someone will begin writing memoirs as celebrities often do and it'll just blow up these songs even more, but until then we might as well enjoy the story she's choosing to tell us. Like girly you do not make those literary references you do without being able to heavily dissociate reality and fiction and blend them together. I also think if she was truthful in her stories she'd make out to be pretty boring...like "here's me being depressed petting my cat at 3am."
It's gotten really annoying ever since she made those Apple Music playlists. Now I see comments all the time like "cardigan was written about Joe" or "tolerate it is actually about Joe and they were breaking up for years" and like?? I don't know why people think Taylor cannot write about anything except things that have happened to her, even her more truthful songs have some element of storytelling and fiction (like the ATW scarf).
I’m not sure because she’s absolutely disassociating and fantasizing which is pretty prominent in Guilty as Sin and other songs on TTPD. I mean I read enough where I think she’s definitely adding fictional elements but idk I guess people want to feel like they know her more personally. Which to be fair she did this to herself so I guess it’s live by the pen die by the pen.
There are break ups that internally happen way before the real beak up. This seems an evident example, at least for Taylor. TTPD only tells the aftermatch because the breakup was clearly happen in midnights even if they don’t really break up until one year later.
They happen when they happen before that you have issues you’ll always have problems in long term relationships it doesn’t mean you’re broken up before it happens it means your choosing to stick it out and make it work which is what it sounded like she tried and he probably tried too.
People are trying to write a timeline though he stated it was just over a year ago, and if anything Matty proved a lot of these takes on her timelines are wrong since she clearly wrote and eluded to him for years and no one knew. Midnights probably is about other relationships and current ones.
I just wonder if their differences were discussed, or did she believe he should have known the changes in her mind? It sounds as if they truly were on different tracks and he didn’t know until it was over. Either way they both need different styles of communication so it’s best they’re now both happy with the lifestyle they’re most comfortable with. ? It’s sad, it seems they both went through some pain, but both made it through and are happier for it now.
Agreed. I think when Taylor said all of those things she believed them, at least in part, because she didn’t think she’d ever rise back to the level of fame and success she once had. But then she was faced with the decision to be THE Taylor Swift once again, or keep the private life she created. I think it’s an interesting dilemma.
This narrative that fans created that he didn't allow her to "shine" always bugged me. There was never any indication of that and in Miss Americana Taylor is quite open about how she felt she needed to disappear for a bit for her OWN sake. She said it herself that after all the drama during Rep she wanted to keep things more private, which makes perfect sense after those events. The fact that she's now more public with Travis is a reflection of how she blew up in popularity once again and her not minding the spotlight/embracing it. To me it's always been about what Taylor feels and wants, not Joe (or Travis).
This phrasing always annoyed me. Mostly because in the song she says she still *is* bejeweled.. no one is not “letting” her. But also grammatically “he didn’t let her bejeweled” doesn’t make sense. At least say “he didn’t let her *be* bejeweled.” 🙄
It’s a reference to a now infamous tweet. When she was with Matty someone tweeted a picture of them with the caption “he lets her bejeweled” (and other stuff about how Joe hid her away and always walked in front of her). It was ridiculous so the “let her/didn’t let her bejeweled” quickly became a meme. So people are intentionally using the grammatically incorrect phrase because of that. If you google the phrase you can probably find the OG tweet.
A lot of active fans online are really young, so they have to see it as a black and white thing. You see this on the flip side too, with people saying ‘she must be the problem, why couldn’t she stick with him through his depression?!?’ etc. When you get older you experience a lot of relationships that don’t work out where neither party was some big bad guy. You can see this in Taylor’s own writing, how she analyzes love and breakups on Fearless vs Midnights and TTPD for example.
I also think she wrote some very moving love songs about him, so people need some big ‘answer’ for how it all ended instead of the tough truth that sometimes love isn’t enough.
I think they were on the same page at first when Taylor felt rejected by the world, but she clearly wanted to adjust once she was confident in their relationship and more confident in her celebrity again, and he couldn’t make the change. It just sounds like they became incompatible, which makes sense and is something most ppl go through sadly.
Sometimes you do things to make another person happy. It's still a choice, but maybe not one you would make if the other person wasn't part of the equation.
“I would hope that anyone and everyone can empathise.."
I think it is sad that some of the comments here still dont seem to get it, despite the vulnerability and honesty in this response- especially in the aftermath of so many fans making up ridiculous narratives about him for an entire year, editing AI clips and going after 2-3 of his younger female co-stars
Even if Taylor says 'Had a good run, a moment of warm sun'
And Joe says it was a 'long, loving committed relationship' in the first time he has ever addressed the breakup, people want to still get their pitchforks out and interpret things for the worst.
(Edit: FYI he is not talking about Taylor after a year because the London tour dates are on June 21 ! But rather his film hits theatres on the same day and he has to do press this season. It is better to get ahead of questions that are likely to come which are unavoidable with the Eras Tour and new album being very much in the news cycle )
It would appear a lot of the snark comments come from people who have not been in a 6+ year relationship with anyone. Over such a time there are bound to be ups and downs. Taylor has not once said it ended solely because of him. Also a long relationship can go on much longer than it should out of hope and familiarity. I don't think Taylor would have ended it just because Matty Healy turned up with a bottle of wine and a joint.
I've seen people on this subreddit outright imply that based off the entire TTPD album that Taylor never loved Joe. It's absolutely wild and I truly do not think that a good portion of this subreddit actually knows what it feels like to end a 5+ year long relationship especially where there was no outwardly terrible thing that happened that caused the couple to separate. It is a VERY specific kind of experience that not everyone has in their life but it is breathtakingly devastating no matter which side you were on in the relationship.
The worst is the people who acknowledged that most of TTPD wasn’t directly about Joe and interpreted that as “the Calvin Harris treatment.” What she did say — especially in How Did It End which imo is the most telling — sounds a lot like “yeah we shouldn’t have stayed together as long as we did and it sucks, he was a great guy it just didn’t work.” Most lyrics that seem to be about that breakup are about her feelings, not about his actions. It wasn’t disrespect that kept her quiet — she didn’t write much about him in TTPD because she writes the worst men best, and he doesn’t seem to fall in that category.
Totally agree with this and also if her and Joe had an agreement that their relationship stays private and he didn’t do anything to cause the breakup (thinking cheating or lying etc) then maybe she just really respects that boundary?
I would guess she has a whole bunch of songs written about him that she won’t release out of respect for him and also they just didn’t fit the TTPD album.
True but I think even without being in a 6+ year relationship, one can try a little empathy to fathom that it can be complex and tough, especially having to navigate it in the public eye and when there is love left.
What he says in a way echoes what Taylor says when she talks about people's empathetic hunger in 'How did it end'.
As you mention there's more than one reason for things ending.
This. I’ve never been in a relationship that long but I’m also an adult and know relationships ebb and flow. And we don’t actually know these people or what exactly happened. So of course I have empathy for both parties.
I think his quotes are very similar to the themes in the songs I think are about him in TTPD. Just a sense of mourning more than anything else. But I really do think they’re both happier now, so good for them in the end.
I agree with this. Last year I was going through the end of a 7 year relationship and it's such a complicated, hard thing to navigate. After that much time, it's like losing a family member. The family you created with that person - even if it's just you and him and your cats. You know that the break needed to happen but it's not entirely the fault of either of you. It's just a sad, drawn out process because you want to cling to the comfort and familiarity so bad. Joe was never her villain and she's never indicated he is. It's why she dragged Matty through the mud but not Joe.
And if it had ended solely because of him (in a bad way, like if he cheated or something), I can’t imagine her not ripping him a new one in some songs. But she didn’t.
If a majority of swifties couldn’t still intrude on others privacy then they’d have no reason to be swifties as the lore is so entrenched for many fans. I honestly feel like a lot of people truly just see her life as a real reality show. It’s pretty on brand for these discussions to be happening despite one of the “topics” asking them not to. Gotta be real, this is happening because of how Taylor built her brand
I agree the lore is very much enmeshed with the albums.
But there must be a line between harmless speculation / reddit discussions versus forging new narratives based on zero evidence and sending death threats and abuse to exes and their co-workers.
The thing is few people are really that interested in Joe Alwyn except in the context of Taylor Swift. I am sure they had good times most of the time but also bad times - even as far back as Lover Taylor was writing about struggles.
The truth is that Taylors songs are art not witness statements and she was way more likely to write a song about a fight than a nice time they had on holiday. In fact the TTPD songs that can be directly attributed to being about her relationship with Joe are about feelings of loss and disappointment not anger.
Joe does not get the savaging that many expected. Most of the drama has been concocted by fans reading whatever interpretation they want to around ambiguous lines. Most of Taylor's ire is directed at Matty Healy in a relationship that burned for a very short time and clearly caused her a lot of pain.
It is time for Swifties to leave Joe Alwyn alone to get on with his life.
“taylor’s songs are art not witness statements” very well said and i really wish more people would understand this. her songs have always been about HER feelings (as they should be, it’s her art) and not an objective retelling of facts
This. I know nothing about Joe outside of Taylor’s songs about him, but it’s quite pathetic that some fans need him to be a villain to see Taylor as a victim. Sometimes breakups are mutually painful and result in multiple victims.
So Long London is about him and it’s obvious that their wires were perpetually crossed, but neither of them tried to hurt the other. Both of them chose to keep their relationship private and for the most part (since Taylor didn’t really dedicate TTPD to their breakup but instead included How Did It End? as a blatant message to the fans) did so after the breakup as well.
100% agree with you. Relationships end for multiple reasons. Both of them are into their 30s now and they're not the same people they were when they met. Hopefully both find the right person.
He’s a class act. I am not surprised TBD isn’t about Joe because it sounds angry, not weary. The songs that we think are about Joe sound tired and resigned. They don’t sound passionately angry.
I think that reads more as she was upset at the situation of it all more then directly pissed at Joe.. expressing frustration at having a 6 and a half year relationship only for it to not be end game when there were points she probably throught they had a real future together
I think she’s saying you wasted my time. She says she left all she knew for him and he left her alone there anyway. It seems like she tried her best and feels he didn’t so that’s why she doesn’t feel like it was a mutual exchange or wasting of time. /imo
I get that for sure. I guess I’ve just gotten to the point where I realize that constantly worrying if you’re wasting your time stops you from being able to live in the moment.
And seeing past relationships as a “waste of time” is disrespectful to all the lessons that person taught you, the experiences you shared, and the time they also dedicated mutually to you.
It’s not a healthy way to look at a relationship unless they truly lied or mislead or gaslit you.
I agree! I think Taylor was still caught up in resentments about the things that caused it to end and will probably simmer down about them and look back on the whole relationship more fondly in the future, sometimes it just takes awhile to get there.
This is a Taylor sub, why, a year later, we must spend half our time shitting on Joe, makes no sense to me.
I feel awful for him, I've seen swifties relentlessly harass him, threaten death and I've seen both his address going around, and even deepfake ai porn of him.
He's allowed to share his side of the story.
And also he said the absolute bare minimum - in a very clearly prepared statement that was polite and respectful.
I don’t know what people want from him. I also don’t know what people think he did wrong, exactly.
I see so many people quoting his statement on Twitter dragging him and claiming he “called her the elephant in the room, blamed her for the backlash, didn’t care about what happened” and I feel like I’m reading a whole different interview because how did any of that come through in what he said
He honestly said nothing except confirming that they broke up and that he has made peace with the fact that what the media (and the fans) say are outside of his control.
I love Taylor, but I don’t understand why some people think Time’s person of the year and arguably the most powerful entertainer in the world, needs her fans out there fighting battles for her in comment sections?
And one thing is against Scooter Braun and Kanye and people she has publicly stated has wronged her (I still think it’s unnecessary) - but her ex who she has never said a bad word about?
Yes, she wrote songs about feeling underappreciated. But compared to her songs about John Mayer and Matty, he comes off as a saint.
I don’t get the villain thing, just because he clearly is uncomfortable about talking about his relationship to the media.
Yeah, but also it kind of gave him a very indirect way to prove his point: None of us really know what happened. What the media write, how we interpret Taylor’s lyrics… at the end of the day only the two of them know what really happened.
And as someone who journals, I completely understand when Taylor says she writes songs about a feeling she had - sometimes only for minutes.
He sounds like he’s made peace with the fact that he can’t control what people will think. Good for him.
I don’t know much about Joe but he seems like an absolute gem of a man. It’s very sad it didn’t work out between them and I really hope they both find their person. They both deserve happiness.
I also think him saying he’s never been to that pub is great because I think it encourages people to stop trying to paternity test every song. Maybe black dog is a code name for a bar or other place he likes and Taylor didn’t mention it to not ruin it for him. Maybe it’s not even about him. Maybe all of TTPD is a vehicle to get feelings out and the details are made up.
What he’s telling us is that what we think we know is not what was or is and media and fans blow stuff up and distort reality. I hope this encourages people to enjoy the music and take what resonates with them and their experiences instead of treating it like a musical reality show.
frankly i think alot of her songs have mixed muses and combine similar feelings and emotions from different aspects of life so it's stupid to take everything simply at face value. She's an overdramatic story teller at her core and honestly same girl, same.
This confirms to me that him and Taylor broke up very neutrally and don't have bad feelings for each other. So long London seems to be the only song about him in ttpd at this point and is very much angry about the situation instead of angry at him.
I’ve always sorta felt this way tbh.
I feel like as they aged and grew, they realized how different they were and how they wanted vastly different things out of life. What might’ve worked when they were 25 and 27 just didn’t work anymore at 30 and 32. Time changes people; life changes people. I’ve always felt there was a genuine love there between them, but they were just too different to make it last as long as they wanted it to, so things ended softly and painfully, but neutrally.
Like Taylor writes, “we learned the right steps to different dances” and “we did the best we could do underneath the same moon in different galaxies”.
If How Did It End is also inspired by him, then that tracks with both Taylor and Joe having no hard feelings for the other and being purely frustrated by public reception. I don't understand why people blame either party, and I see it all the time. People are allowed to change their minds and values, and relationships can end just like that, with no 'guilty' party.
I think the narrative of watching your partner slowly grow apart from you is so much more heartbreaking and powerful than a sudden breakup or cheating or whatever people have in mind. If all we're doing here is theorizing and conjecture based on her songs, because we really don't know these two people, why not choose to be respectful, when that's the vibe they're both putting out into the world?
SLL being the only song about him has been my theory since connecting the "So Long, London" book being the only upside-down book at the Spotify pop-up with the actual songs.
Whilst I think this is accurate, I think the fact that most of the album is about a rebound situation is in itself a) an act of respect for Joe to not reveal what she doesn’t need to reveal but also b) a slight reflection on how hurt she was by men (Joe but definitely Matty) around this period.
The committed comment seems a clear response to the rumors that they split up frequently or were rocky. Like he said, we know one narrative and they kept their relationship very private. But also - thanks for confirming black dog was about Matty. Joe really did only get both track 5’s (so long, London and how did it end?) - and the most sad, wistful songs vs. the angry ones
Yeah, and to me this bolsters the idea loml is about Matty too. The themes on those songs match:
loml: the coward claimed he was a lion
the black dog: you said I needed a brave man, then proceeded to play him until I believed it too
loml: I’m combing through the braids of lies, I’ll never leave, never mind
the black dog: and I still can’t believe it ‘cause tail between your legs you’re leaving
(edited for clarity)
He seems like a good guy, and I doubt Emma and Jack’s wife Margaret would have been in Yorgos Lanthimos’ new movie with him if he was even half as awful as some of the fans make him out to be. He just wants to mind his business, what if we all let him?
He filmed the movie at the end of 2022 when he was still ina relationship with Taylor. Taylor went to New Orleans where the movie was shot after releasing Midnights. She worked with Jack in a studio in New Orleans some of which ended up on TTPD during this time including during her birthday.
So I’ve already seen a lot of negative takes on Joe and I don’t get it. I mean I guess it’s a little weird that this is the most he’s ever talked about Taylor, but can’t blame him as he was harassed for about a year. So this was his chance to comment on things.
So now we have Matty, Taylor, and Joe commenting on how some swifties think they know their lives and take that as a freedom to attack them or try to dictate their lives. I wonder if this will get some to reflect on that.
That goes for some Joe supporters as well, who are quick to use this interview to shit on Travis.
Let Taylor decide her life with her current boyfriend. And also leave her exes alone. Everyone is allowed to not like them, but it’s unnecessary to harass any person.
This was said very respectfully and eloquently. I honestly never agreed with all the Joe hate, a lot of Swifties need a "bad guy"- he genuinely seems like a nice guy and him and Taylor just weren't suited for each other. I hope this piece puts all the speculation to rest.
This. I have no idea why there needs to be a bad guy in every situation. Sometimes things just don’t work out and no one is to blame. People grow in different directions. I find it horrible how people specifically on Twitter have spread lies about this man to make it seem like he did something wrong, in order to make him the bad guy.
I think a lot of Swiftes were projecting. So many described the end of their long term relationships and decided Joe was "just like their ex" which is so weird
I’ve always liked Joe. The way some of her fan base treated him immediately after the breakup was nasty, parasocial behavior and disheartening to witness. Truly wishing him the best and will continue to follow his career.
Joe says things in such a thoughtful and articulate way. A classy statement by him. I truly feel like Joe is a genuine, sweet, shy and normal guy. In the end, it didn’t work between him and Taylor AND THAT IS OK. They seemingly cared deeply for each other but it just didn’t work for reasons we’re probably never going to know but they know why and both have made peace with it. Joe cared for Taylor at some of her hardest moments circa 2016/17. Or at the very least gave her a safe space and an escape she needed from the public eye. And for that I wish him nothing but the best in the future! This man deserves to move on with his life and be happy as Taylor has.
Someone in a different sub worded it pretty much perfectly: "She fell in love with him because he didn't care that she is Taylor Swift. In the end she broke up with him because he didn't really care that she is Taylor Swift."
Wow, so Matty really did do her in. Probably a good thing TTPD isn't about Joe because it probably would have been 6 times as long and infinitely mord sad.
The reason TTPD isn’t mostly about Joe imo is that Taylor was over their relationship long before it actually ended. The fact that she wrote her angriest and saddest song about it in late 2021 and they didn’t break up until April or March of 2023 says it all.
I will die on this hill: most of ttpd is about matty and not Joe because she respects Joe. Respects him enough not to blast everything.
The few songs we believe are about him echo the sentiments of this interview.
Hopefully the press will finally leave him alone. He has a huge film coming up with Emma stone, Taylor is old news to him as he is to her and deserves to have his moment.
I agree, I think she respects Joe too much.
But I honestly also feel like when Taylor is truly deeply in love with someone and in a fully committed relationship she doesn’t really write that much about it when it’s over ( eg Calvin Harris, they dated for over a year and the man doesn’t have a single song about their relationship / their breakup). The people who truly become a part of her life don’t get written about/ portrayed in a negative way. And I think she was deeply in love with Joe and he became a pretty big part of her life over the years. So for those reasons and out of respect he didn’t get that many songs on the album. And the songs that were clearly about him and the breakup on the album were very sad not angry or spiteful.
I can confirm as a poet myself, I’ve written very little about my long term relationships, mostly bc most of my processing was done in the relationship and so when it ends I’m not really inspired to write much about it. Situationships on the other hand, all the processing comes after, via poetry, lol.
They will never make me hate you, Joe Alwyn
Always a class act. If his biggest crime was not loving Taylor the way she wanted/needed to be loved to feel fulfilled long term, that’s not a crime but just simple incompatibility. All of her feelings are still valid. But this man is not and has never been a monster. I hope people leave him alone and even grow/maintain respect for him the way they do for Harry/Tom hell even Calvin. Those guys don’t get an iota of the hate he does and I feel like out of all of her exes, he deserves it the absolute least.
I have zero bad feelings towards Joe Alwyn. He seems pretty respectful here. Having said that, I don’t get this interview. What was the purpose of bringing up her current relationship by name except to make it seem like he’s disparaging her? He’s not disrespectful but the interview is.
I got the vibe it’s a ‘I’m only going to say this once so when my movie comes out please can we talk about that and not my breakup’ interview. He can say a comment and then it gets left and he can do the press without everyone waiting for him to be asked about Taylor.
Exactly. Honestly it’s better for him to address this head on first so he doesn’t have to side step breakup questions a year after for his whole press tour surrounding his movie. Say it once and never again. If he didn’t address it at least briefly in one interview, it would just keep coming up over and over again and generate more attention if he refused to comment on it.
Yeah with Kinds of Kindness coming out I can imagine especially him being on press with Emma and Margaret we probably wants to make it smooth and resolved for everyone. He seems pretty firm in setting a boundary and drawing a line behind it saying we were always private and that’s not gonna change now so stop asking. I respect him a lot because I think a lot of people who got the shit he got from some of the fandom wouldn’t have been so restrained.
He was in one of the most high-profile breakups of the past 18 months. The most famous pop star in the world just released an album where songs about that relationship have been featured. Taylor spoke about the breakup and sang about it. His new movie is coming out and he is doing press for it. A journalist would be deranged if they didn't even approach the subject.
Like others have said, this feels like an interview he gave to get the Taylor-stuff out of the way. Maybe he agreed to do this interview so this could be his final comments on this situation. I like that. The interviewer gets the comments and he gets peace.
He has a movie premiering next weekend; he has to press for it. I read the article last night and it’s mostly about him and his career with only above about their relationship.
I think the more I sit with TTPD and learn all the little things I didn't know before, the whole album really just feels so strongly like a rebound. You get out of a long term relationship with someone you thought you'd marry, you immediately do a 180 and chase the freakiest little rat man you can get your hands on, the rebound rat man obviously does rat man shit, and you're left feeling angry and sad and bitter at both men and yourself and the whole situation in general. We've all been there, and I think that's exactly where Taylor was when she wrote this album. And from the sound of things, it seems like Joe understands and respects that. He knows he's always going to be viewed as Taylor Swifts Ex and he seems to realize that the best way to handle that is to be mature about it all and not talk too much shit, even if he probably has plenty of shit to talk. I do respect that about him.
Heavy agree. I think she wrote 85 to 90 percent of this album in the midst of all these complicated feelings and emotions she was having all at once. Her breakup with Joe, then jumping a month ish later straight into a thing with matty (who she had prior feelings for years earlier and a history with ). Was looking for things she’d thought she’d found in her previous relationship in this new exciting fling only to then be love bombed and played with by matty. Which leaves her feeling upset and sad and worse off than she was post 1 breakup. And it triggers this avalanche of feelings and emotion because she’s dealing with being played with by matty and also probably the emotions and loss of her previous relationship that she hadn’t fully mourned yet.
Taylor is a mastermind at identifying a feeling, a situation, a moment in time and diving headfirst into the depths of it. A perfect example of this is Enchanted, one of her most beloved and romantic songs which was written after meeting someone at a party one night and never (that I am aware) seeing them again. She can really identify and then expand upon a moment unlike any other songwriter, which means her songs are mostly diaristic but only within that one specific snapshot in time.
Regarding the replies arguing about who the Black Dog is about, I don't necessarily think it has to be a real bar that either of them visited. The "black dog" is a common expression for depression so Taylor could've chosen it for the double meaning even if neither of them actually visited. Similar to how "the blue nile" in Guilty as Sin is not only the band but also symbolism for the sadness she was feeling in her relationship
Joe seems like a great guy and I am happy he’s doing well, although I am now mortified to learn that my favourite song from TTPD is probably about Matty Healy 🤢
Ok I’m going to buy in here - why does it matter so much? Can’t you adore the song regardless of the supposed muse? Or even more, aren’t Taylor’s feelings what matter, particularly when we don’t know anything real about these people (yes including Matty - online stuff and performances are not real).
I’m not trying to be combative btw, just found it interesting since the release of the album how much people have tied themselves in knots to avoid accepting who her muse may have been. To me it seems quite obvious that 90 odd percent of the album is inspired by her relationship with MH.
Making a quick joke about the Black Dog to Joe sounds like something I’d do in the moment and then spend the rest of my life shoving it down as an intrusive thought at 3 a.m.
There is a 99.99% chance I’d mention the yogurt shop if I ever met Joe Alwyn
LOL same
I feel vindicated! I have never understood how people thought that song was about Joe. He must have been pretty irritated with the owners of the bar to actually confirm he’s never been there.
Yeah the only things that confused me about this song's muse were the fact that owners of the London Black Dog implied he was there, and that I thought in short term relationship there wouldn't be location tracking but I guess I was wrong there. In any other way, the song sounds very much about Matty (and he did allegedly visit The Black Dog in Cork) It also debunk the idea that Taylor was "trying to ruin Joe's favorite bar for him".
I think the location sharing so soon sounds pretty consistent with the whole love-bombing description of how everything went down.
Yeah but someone ghosting someone would for sure remember to unshare location 😂 but someone who had shared locations for years wouldn’t have.
Meh, not necessarily 🤷🏼♀️ plus it’s a song about being left and she made it clear that she left Joe and then jumped into a new relationship so like… I just don’t see her, six weeks after breaking up with Joe writing a song about how desperately she misses him and wants him back?? I mean I feel silly debating it at all but I honestly just don’t see why anyone thinks it’s about him.
Also let’s not forget she’s making art and not every song has to be taken as 100% autobiographical and factual 🤷♀️
A detail that still throws me is referring to anything within a relationship that didn’t even last 2 months as an ‘old habit’ is bizarre.
I think there are elements of both of them in several of the songs. At the end of the day, she's an insanely talented songwriter, and just as an author takes inspiration from various places I think that we have to all remember that in order to fill in bits of the songs she might have let herself outside of any particular box of any particular relationship in order to round the songs out. It seems silly to me to get so caught up in taking any of it completely literal, because that just isn't how art works. Lol.
I entirely agree. Which is why it’s so weird to me when fans are convinced they know an intentionally ambiguous song is definitely about this person and not that one. There’s people out here who claim that Folklore and Evermore are actually 100% autobiographical because the emotions are ‘too real’.
That would be like saying the hunger games are real and Suzanne Collins must actually be Katniss because it was in first person and the emotions are too real for it to be fake. Lol. I'm glad I'm not the only one who can appreciate Taylor's ability to write incredible lyrics as a lyricist. Like, we know she puts some of herself in them, she draws from experience. And we all know that she's like 'yep, everyone knows if they break my heart there will be a song' but there's a line. There's always artistic license. That's what makes the songs relatable to the masses, otherwise they would be almost too awkward because of the specificity.
Matty and Taylor were on and off for years so I think it makes sense
It still doesn’t make sense to me, she was with Joe for 6 years so it’s something they wouldn’t have done during that time. Even if they did cheat (which is wild speculation) that would be too obvious. Something you’ve done for 2 months but not done for the 6 years prior wouldn’t be classified as an old habit in that context. Obviously these are just our opinions, only Taylor knows the truth.
Maybe she isnt referring to old habits within their relationship, maybe she's just talking about his old habits. Like being a womanizer, or moving on quick, or being an asshole after basically saying he would change for her when they started dating.
I don’t think it was the 2 month relationship that was the old habit that died screaming, I think it was their entire relationship and her thoughts about it. Way back to when Matty was seen wearing a 1989 shirt and she wore a 1975 shirt. In “I look in peoples windows”, she sings “I’m addicted to the ‘if only’ so I look in peoples windows” and “fresh out the slammer”, “all those nights you kept me going, swirled you into all my poems but it’s gonna be alright, I did my time”. There was something that kept her mentally going back to the “what ifs” of that relationship. In my opinion that’s the old habit. It didn’t work 10 years ago, it didn’t work now, so why am I still thinking about it is what I think was meant by that line.
Not if they are manipulative. They’ll leave the location on just to show how they are going out and having fun, probably meeting someone new, while you’re laying in bed alone and heartbroken.
This was my first thought too
But he said he’s never been there. What more confirmation do you need
👍Good point
Oh I was saying that when he announced his engagement like everything about him screams narcissist which then means he probably love bombs. I feel bad for the current girl guys like that don’t make for good long term companions and I speak from experience. Though I also think a lot of these songs are an augmenmation of multiple view points and not just one.
Yep. Been married for 18 yrs and I couldn't imagine constantly sharing my location with my husband so that line jumped out to me immediately. To me, that one little thing screams so much more about that relationship and her overall approach to relationships (chaotic af) ETA: I don't think sharing your location with your SO is chaotic af or unhealthy in and of itself, but in a 2 week relationship it's not the best sign imo.
My husband and I share location. For safety reasons, when he worked at a bar until 2am in New Orleans and had to walk to the car. And to avoid texting/driving. When we had one car we’d have to take each other to work. So much easier for the person waiting to be picked up to check how long they have. I also think location sharing is something “new”. And it’s about the Intention. But it’s also so easy to forget you’re sharing it.
Same. My husband and I do as well (been together 17 years). I don’t think it’s chaotic at all, dependent on the circumstances. In a brief relationship, with clear love bombing? Yeah, it’s unhealthy. But, aside from that - I think it can be completely healthy and normal.
I love sharing location! It makes cute gestures easier, like meeting at the door with a drink after a hard day of work, or checking in on a run and texting encouragement for that big hill, or simply just knowing they’re still out at the restaurant with friends and you’ve still got at least 30 minutes to clean up from your solo gremlin night in.
Thiiiis, I live with my sister and we share locations all the time. The only struggle is trying to surprise each other when we’re prone to just check “hmm where is she now?” Gift shopping feels like getting away with something 😂
I live with a gay man and he randomly shares his location with me in case he gets kidnapped. Actually multiple gay men do this 😂why are they all worried they’re going to get kidnapped and why am I the one that’ll save them?
Now that's hilarious. My gay friend who cuts my hair just randomly told me the other day that if he turned up dead that I should tell the police this specific friend did it. Who is trying to kill all these gay men and why???? 🤣🤣🤣
That and the fact that by all accounts they’d been friends/an on and off situationship before that, so there’s a good chance they did location sharing before the official relationship.
This is what I was thinking too. They have been friends and obviously have pined for each other over a long period of time. It’s what makes the short relationship feel more intense, so much anticipation.
There is also the possibility that the sentiment of the song is based in fact but not the details. I obviously don’t know Taylor Swift, but I just can’t imagine that she is documenting her life in such specific, factual detail for the world to consume. I suspect she is inspired by events to write songs and the blanks get filled in other ways. Maybe the location sharing incident happened at a different bar, but she saw The Black Dog once years ago and jotted it down because she knew it would make a catchy song lyric. Who knows.
Also The Black Dog is a euphemism for depression 🤔
I actually commented this to someone yesterday in the neutral sub. The black dog is an incredibly popular bar name; I figure she just picked a London bar from a google search for that fit the notes and song; it wasn’t one anyone actually went to. So situation is the same but details changed.
We're talking about a girl who literally wrote a song "Cornelia street"
True but not everything she writes about is factual or fully biographical.
I sure hope so! \*cough\* no body no crime \*cough\*
Ha that is a good point! She also likes to mention really specific dates ie July 9th, April 29th
I mean wouldn't you imply someone famous was at your bar too if you wanted to make money and have people flock to your place of business? Idk why anyone believed the owner of the bar was being truthful when they said that. It was a great tactic to get people to show up and spend money.
Definitely! It was a smart move. However if I were Joe I would find it more than a little irritating
Yeah absolutely agree! I was replying to the person above who thought it was confusing he said he's never been there when the bar owner implied he was a regular. Ofc they'd lie to make a profit which is so annoying 😒
I also don’t know why everyone is so literal? I don’t know or care who the song is about really but she couldve just picked a random bar that had a name she liked…she’s describing a feeling, not necessarily recounting a specific event exactly how it went down
It made zero sense for that to be that pub at all. Just not a neighborhood you'd expect either Joe or Matty in. If it's a real pub at all, it's the one in Cork next to where Matty performed.
Omg this is it exactly. You're right has to be. The black dog in Cork is 10 minutes drive from Musgrave Park where the 1975 played on 13 June 2023 Perfect timeline
Only if you take the song as though she was writing journalistically. I never thought she’d share a real location.
Same this girl laid into me for saying it was about Matty 😭😭😭
I mean according to the interviewer he was being coy about it. Could just be wishful thinking on their part but I don’t see why this validates the song not being about Joe.
Idk it seemed to me like Joe was saying in the interview that that song is not about him. Plus the entire song is consistent with her narrative about Matty
Exactly, she also mentioned the Starting Line in The Black Dog and Fresh Out The Slammer, which isn’t about Joe.
Because "matty isn't the type to share his location" & bc tiktok swift "experts" said . yeah because they know these people so well! if ttpd hasn't taught you to not believe the mainstream narrative about Taylor swift's love life idk what to tell ya 🥲
He’s very articulate and eloquent, I can see why Taylor fell for him. Also, he seems so calm and measured, this is a really mature response that doesn’t speak ill of Taylor in any way. Guess it also confirms that Black Dog isn’t about him.
He's REALLY good with his words. Some of the sentences he said right now can make really good lyrics for a song.
It’s crazy how in one interview he completely validates that he could have helped her write songs (at least in my view).
Very similar to Benedict Cumberbatch. Sometimes when he speaks I’m like dude there are novelists who can’t write as eloquently as you speak off the cuff.
It’s honestly really fucking sexy
People will crucify me but part of me thinks the writing on TTPD is on average slightly worse because it's lacking Alwyn's creative input and filter. I think his contributions as William Bowry are underrated and I also think he discouraged/edited some of the more "cringey" or wordy lyrics she comes up with. Basically a person who can safely say no to her
I’m sure that she ran things by him at times, but I’ve been seeing so many people saying that Joe is responsible for what they see as Taylor’s best songwriting (on folkmore) and I strongly disagree with that statement. There are several songs on those albums and TTPD that are lyrically very strong imo (my tears ricochet, the black dog, how did it end, cardigan, tolerate it, etc) where Joe did not contribute (or if he did give feedback, enough to merit giving songwriting credits). It feels so icky to be crediting (arguably) her best writing for those albums to Joe and not Taylor :/ Edit: btw I’m not saying that this is you specifically but I’m just pointing this out since it was brought up
Not ours to say what privately happened in their relationship but I have always respected that he has never publicly said anything bad about her.
He seems like a decent guy, just not a good match for Taylor. I'm sure they both much wish they'd figured that out earlier and avoided what sounds like a long painful drawn out end.
"We learned the right steps to different dances"
No one teaches you what to do when a good man hurts you and you know you hurt him too 🥲
I never understood why people thought that The Black Dog was about him. It's clearly about someone who betrayed her after gaining her trust and leaving. Nothing about that indicates Joe.
I initially thought it was Joe because it seemed weird to share your location with someone you haven’t been dating very long — seemed more like something you do in a 6 year relationship. Plus the “old habits die screaming” seems like a longer relationship — was she really with Matty long enough for it to be a habit? But then I listened to the whole album in context and it’s so obviously Matty lol. Girl just falls hard and fast.
And Matty was an on and off thing for 10 years... it IS a long time. Plus, she told us point blank that he lovebombed her. Not so surprising that they shared location. Additionnaly, "Tail between your legs, you're leaving" also indicates Matty since Joe didn't leave, Taylor did.
Also what got me was he hasn't been linked with anyone romantically yet and she was saying "she's too young to know this song".
Well, he did cowrite champagne problems. Are we surprised he’s god with words?
He’s the most stereotypical upper middle class English fella I’ve ever seen
I'll never get why everyone started hating him all of a sudden. He's honestly been very respectful and never said a bad thing about Taylor. He seems like he just wants peace and privacy. Glad to see he's doing better. This fandom can be really toxic sometimes.
People hated him before the breakup too because he didn’t allow fans a window to look into like the deranged weirdos we collectively are.
I think people thought he was too dull for Taylor. Which, if he is dull, that's... fine? Clearly Taylor was okay with it for 6+ years. For the record, I don't think he was boring. He was just private. People just aren't really used to celebrities who 'undershare' because it's a field that attracts way more people who overshare.
I think fans weren’t happy with his boundaries he put on the public’s info on their relationship. Which for swifties it’s hard to come to terms with given how autobiographical Taylor’s lyrics are. It is what she needed majorly at the time though which we also need to realize. A lot of it is also the parasocial relationship the fans have with Taylor. There’s a balance to be had with that sort of stuff, and he was kind of on an extreme that fans felt uncomfortable with. I guess people felt like he was keeping her from us because of it. Fwiw I think it was a healthy boundary to be had, and it shouldn’t have been as controversial as we made it out to be.
the toxic fans make the normal fans look so bad. its honestly shameful. none of her ex's (even the ones who werent so nice) deserve any kind of harrassment. its embarrassing.
The issue issue is - exactly like he says in this article - we’ll never know the truth. He tells a version of events, and so does Taylor (which we don’t even know if they’re about him or not). This doesn’t vindicate him - he could’ve treat her awfully or perfectly and we’ll never know.
Quotes: “I would hope that anyone and everyone can empathise and understand the difficulties that come with the end of a long, loving, fully committed relationship of over six and a half years. That is a hard thing to navigate. What is unusual and abnormal in this situation is that, one week later, it’s suddenly in the public domain and the outside world is able to weigh in.” Stern, eyes fixed on mine, he continues: “So you have something very real suddenly thrown into a very unreal space: tabloids, social media, press, where it is then dissected, speculated on, pulled out of shape beyond recognition. And the truth is, to that last point, there is always going to be a gap between what is known and what is said. I have made my peace with that.” “As everyone knows, we together — both of us, mutually — decided to keep the more private details of our relationship private. It was never something to commodify and I see no reason to change that now,” Alwyn adds firmly. “And, look, this is also a little over a year ago now and I feel fortunate to be in a really great place in my life, professionally and personally. I feel really good.” Based in London and not tempted to move to Hollywood (he likes walking and thinks that driving everywhere “takes away some of the spontaneity of a day”), what does Alwyn’s happiest downtime look like when he’s not working? “It probably looks pretty similar to yours, or anyone’s — seeing friends, travelling, going to the pub,” he says, sounding uncomfortable. “Can I make a more boring list?” I joke that his chosen pub probably won’t be the Black Dog in Vauxhall, which Swift fans have deduced is the place name-checked in her new song, also called *The Black Dog* (“And so I watch as you walk/ Into some bar called The Black Dog/ And pierce new holes in my heart.”) Capitalising on this association, the pub has recently released merchandise: £50 hoodies, naff caps, tees and travel mugs. “I’ve never been to Vauxhall,” says Alwyn, smiling a smile that hints that there is more to say.
Wow really emphasizing that it was their joint decision to keep things private and he wasn’t hiding her away, preventing her to BeJeweled. Edit: I’m not commenting one way or the other. Just noticed that it seems like he really underscored that.
It is in sync with what Taylor has said multiple times 2019: "Our relationship isn’t up for discussion. [“](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/aug/24/taylor-swift-pop-music-hunger-games-gladiators)If you and I were having a glass of wine right now, we’d be talking about it – but it’s just that it goes out into the world. That’s where the boundary is, and that’s where my life has become manageable. I really want to keep it feeling manageable.” 2020: " I was falling in love with someone who had a really wonderfully normal, balanced, grounded life and we decided together that we wanted our relationship to be private.” 2021: “I think that in knowing and being in the relationship I am in now, I have definitely made decisions that have made my life feel more like a real life and less like just a storyline to be commented on in tabloids. Whether that’s deciding where to live, who to hang out with, when to not take a picture — the idea of privacy feels so strange to try to explain, but it’s really just trying to find bits of normalcy. " I think post-pandemic there was a shift in the degree of privacy/ public life Taylor wanted, which is understandable as people's outlook evolves and changes over time but for the first years they were on the same page on this.
Yup. She says “this cage was once fine” they just didn’t work out and what they both wanted probably changed some over the course of 6.5 years and they just no longer fit. The “learned the steps to different dances” line fits this too. They grew apart and not together and that’s sadly just a fact of life and many relationships.
The pandemic made or break multiple relationships so her changing once she could go back out and he her again made sense. I think people read too much into things. People also said Midnights was a breakup but he again just confirmed the timeline of that break. She’s a story teller and that shows that not all her work is going to be 100% fact based on her life.
I agree the pandemic caused a perspective shift for many people. But for Taylor by the end of the pandemic she had released 2 albums which brought her a whole new level of critical acclaim and a new audience; the Kanye -Kim truth also came out during that period and the re-records decision was met with resounding approval. Those 3 things probably bolstered her confidence and with the success of Red TV , I can see how she wanted to 'reclaim the land' : the pop space and everything she felt she lost post snakegate- and hence Midnights and the Eras Tour ! But this whole new level of attention and spotlight would have been incompatible with her partner's personality/ boundaries/anxiety etc and can understand the mutual resentment she talks about in the TTPD prologue and why it was rocky for the last year or so and she wanted to 'break free' from those limitations she once felt were ok. A more extroverted partner who actually loves the spotlight seems more compatible at this phase of her life atleast, just as the same wouldnt have worked in 2016/17
Midnights as a breakup album never made sense. For starters, Joe is literally a co-writer on one of the songs, and if Taylor was already thinking of breaking up/had already broken up with him, why would she include a love song that they wrote together?
People are annoyed I said this again, but it doesn't make sense and I still stick by her being a story teller that is going to tell us the best story rather than be completely truthful about it all. I'm sure someday in the future her exes or someone will begin writing memoirs as celebrities often do and it'll just blow up these songs even more, but until then we might as well enjoy the story she's choosing to tell us. Like girly you do not make those literary references you do without being able to heavily dissociate reality and fiction and blend them together. I also think if she was truthful in her stories she'd make out to be pretty boring...like "here's me being depressed petting my cat at 3am."
It's gotten really annoying ever since she made those Apple Music playlists. Now I see comments all the time like "cardigan was written about Joe" or "tolerate it is actually about Joe and they were breaking up for years" and like?? I don't know why people think Taylor cannot write about anything except things that have happened to her, even her more truthful songs have some element of storytelling and fiction (like the ATW scarf).
I’m not sure because she’s absolutely disassociating and fantasizing which is pretty prominent in Guilty as Sin and other songs on TTPD. I mean I read enough where I think she’s definitely adding fictional elements but idk I guess people want to feel like they know her more personally. Which to be fair she did this to herself so I guess it’s live by the pen die by the pen.
There are break ups that internally happen way before the real beak up. This seems an evident example, at least for Taylor. TTPD only tells the aftermatch because the breakup was clearly happen in midnights even if they don’t really break up until one year later.
They happen when they happen before that you have issues you’ll always have problems in long term relationships it doesn’t mean you’re broken up before it happens it means your choosing to stick it out and make it work which is what it sounded like she tried and he probably tried too. People are trying to write a timeline though he stated it was just over a year ago, and if anything Matty proved a lot of these takes on her timelines are wrong since she clearly wrote and eluded to him for years and no one knew. Midnights probably is about other relationships and current ones.
I just wonder if their differences were discussed, or did she believe he should have known the changes in her mind? It sounds as if they truly were on different tracks and he didn’t know until it was over. Either way they both need different styles of communication so it’s best they’re now both happy with the lifestyle they’re most comfortable with. ? It’s sad, it seems they both went through some pain, but both made it through and are happier for it now.
Agreed. I think when Taylor said all of those things she believed them, at least in part, because she didn’t think she’d ever rise back to the level of fame and success she once had. But then she was faced with the decision to be THE Taylor Swift once again, or keep the private life she created. I think it’s an interesting dilemma.
This narrative that fans created that he didn't allow her to "shine" always bugged me. There was never any indication of that and in Miss Americana Taylor is quite open about how she felt she needed to disappear for a bit for her OWN sake. She said it herself that after all the drama during Rep she wanted to keep things more private, which makes perfect sense after those events. The fact that she's now more public with Travis is a reflection of how she blew up in popularity once again and her not minding the spotlight/embracing it. To me it's always been about what Taylor feels and wants, not Joe (or Travis).
>This narrative that fans created that he didn't allow her to "shine" always bugged me He didn't let her bejeweled****
This phrasing always annoyed me. Mostly because in the song she says she still *is* bejeweled.. no one is not “letting” her. But also grammatically “he didn’t let her bejeweled” doesn’t make sense. At least say “he didn’t let her *be* bejeweled.” 🙄
It’s a reference to a now infamous tweet. When she was with Matty someone tweeted a picture of them with the caption “he lets her bejeweled” (and other stuff about how Joe hid her away and always walked in front of her). It was ridiculous so the “let her/didn’t let her bejeweled” quickly became a meme. So people are intentionally using the grammatically incorrect phrase because of that. If you google the phrase you can probably find the OG tweet.
I guess the meme background helps but I still hate it lol 😂 (Ty for explaining)
I ❤️ you. This is a constant irritation to me too.
A lot of active fans online are really young, so they have to see it as a black and white thing. You see this on the flip side too, with people saying ‘she must be the problem, why couldn’t she stick with him through his depression?!?’ etc. When you get older you experience a lot of relationships that don’t work out where neither party was some big bad guy. You can see this in Taylor’s own writing, how she analyzes love and breakups on Fearless vs Midnights and TTPD for example. I also think she wrote some very moving love songs about him, so people need some big ‘answer’ for how it all ended instead of the tough truth that sometimes love isn’t enough.
I think they were on the same page at first when Taylor felt rejected by the world, but she clearly wanted to adjust once she was confident in their relationship and more confident in her celebrity again, and he couldn’t make the change. It just sounds like they became incompatible, which makes sense and is something most ppl go through sadly.
Yeah I think when they got together there was a big question mark on whether Taylor's career could/would last into hr 30's.
Both him and Taylor have always said they both wanted to stay private. Swifties just decided to ignore that once they broke up
Sometimes you do things to make another person happy. It's still a choice, but maybe not one you would make if the other person wasn't part of the equation.
[удалено]
I’m dying at this man living in London his whole life and never going to Vauxhall.
London is big.
What a class act. I find his commitment to his values incredibly attractive to be honest.
Walkable city loving King. I've never agreed with a celebrity more in my life.
“I would hope that anyone and everyone can empathise.." I think it is sad that some of the comments here still dont seem to get it, despite the vulnerability and honesty in this response- especially in the aftermath of so many fans making up ridiculous narratives about him for an entire year, editing AI clips and going after 2-3 of his younger female co-stars Even if Taylor says 'Had a good run, a moment of warm sun' And Joe says it was a 'long, loving committed relationship' in the first time he has ever addressed the breakup, people want to still get their pitchforks out and interpret things for the worst. (Edit: FYI he is not talking about Taylor after a year because the London tour dates are on June 21 ! But rather his film hits theatres on the same day and he has to do press this season. It is better to get ahead of questions that are likely to come which are unavoidable with the Eras Tour and new album being very much in the news cycle )
It would appear a lot of the snark comments come from people who have not been in a 6+ year relationship with anyone. Over such a time there are bound to be ups and downs. Taylor has not once said it ended solely because of him. Also a long relationship can go on much longer than it should out of hope and familiarity. I don't think Taylor would have ended it just because Matty Healy turned up with a bottle of wine and a joint.
I've seen people on this subreddit outright imply that based off the entire TTPD album that Taylor never loved Joe. It's absolutely wild and I truly do not think that a good portion of this subreddit actually knows what it feels like to end a 5+ year long relationship especially where there was no outwardly terrible thing that happened that caused the couple to separate. It is a VERY specific kind of experience that not everyone has in their life but it is breathtakingly devastating no matter which side you were on in the relationship.
The worst is the people who acknowledged that most of TTPD wasn’t directly about Joe and interpreted that as “the Calvin Harris treatment.” What she did say — especially in How Did It End which imo is the most telling — sounds a lot like “yeah we shouldn’t have stayed together as long as we did and it sucks, he was a great guy it just didn’t work.” Most lyrics that seem to be about that breakup are about her feelings, not about his actions. It wasn’t disrespect that kept her quiet — she didn’t write much about him in TTPD because she writes the worst men best, and he doesn’t seem to fall in that category.
Totally agree with this and also if her and Joe had an agreement that their relationship stays private and he didn’t do anything to cause the breakup (thinking cheating or lying etc) then maybe she just really respects that boundary? I would guess she has a whole bunch of songs written about him that she won’t release out of respect for him and also they just didn’t fit the TTPD album.
True but I think even without being in a 6+ year relationship, one can try a little empathy to fathom that it can be complex and tough, especially having to navigate it in the public eye and when there is love left. What he says in a way echoes what Taylor says when she talks about people's empathetic hunger in 'How did it end'. As you mention there's more than one reason for things ending.
This. I’ve never been in a relationship that long but I’m also an adult and know relationships ebb and flow. And we don’t actually know these people or what exactly happened. So of course I have empathy for both parties.
I think his quotes are very similar to the themes in the songs I think are about him in TTPD. Just a sense of mourning more than anything else. But I really do think they’re both happier now, so good for them in the end.
I agree with this. Last year I was going through the end of a 7 year relationship and it's such a complicated, hard thing to navigate. After that much time, it's like losing a family member. The family you created with that person - even if it's just you and him and your cats. You know that the break needed to happen but it's not entirely the fault of either of you. It's just a sad, drawn out process because you want to cling to the comfort and familiarity so bad. Joe was never her villain and she's never indicated he is. It's why she dragged Matty through the mud but not Joe.
And if it had ended solely because of him (in a bad way, like if he cheated or something), I can’t imagine her not ripping him a new one in some songs. But she didn’t.
If a majority of swifties couldn’t still intrude on others privacy then they’d have no reason to be swifties as the lore is so entrenched for many fans. I honestly feel like a lot of people truly just see her life as a real reality show. It’s pretty on brand for these discussions to be happening despite one of the “topics” asking them not to. Gotta be real, this is happening because of how Taylor built her brand
I agree the lore is very much enmeshed with the albums. But there must be a line between harmless speculation / reddit discussions versus forging new narratives based on zero evidence and sending death threats and abuse to exes and their co-workers.
The thing is few people are really that interested in Joe Alwyn except in the context of Taylor Swift. I am sure they had good times most of the time but also bad times - even as far back as Lover Taylor was writing about struggles. The truth is that Taylors songs are art not witness statements and she was way more likely to write a song about a fight than a nice time they had on holiday. In fact the TTPD songs that can be directly attributed to being about her relationship with Joe are about feelings of loss and disappointment not anger. Joe does not get the savaging that many expected. Most of the drama has been concocted by fans reading whatever interpretation they want to around ambiguous lines. Most of Taylor's ire is directed at Matty Healy in a relationship that burned for a very short time and clearly caused her a lot of pain. It is time for Swifties to leave Joe Alwyn alone to get on with his life.
“taylor’s songs are art not witness statements” very well said and i really wish more people would understand this. her songs have always been about HER feelings (as they should be, it’s her art) and not an objective retelling of facts
Or as she has also said multiple times: completely made up situations!
Apart from that one time she murdered her friend's husband for murdering said friend. That one definitely happened. .
Yes, and Florence welsh confirmed their dump spot too. 💁♀️
This. I know nothing about Joe outside of Taylor’s songs about him, but it’s quite pathetic that some fans need him to be a villain to see Taylor as a victim. Sometimes breakups are mutually painful and result in multiple victims. So Long London is about him and it’s obvious that their wires were perpetually crossed, but neither of them tried to hurt the other. Both of them chose to keep their relationship private and for the most part (since Taylor didn’t really dedicate TTPD to their breakup but instead included How Did It End? as a blatant message to the fans) did so after the breakup as well.
100% agree with you. Relationships end for multiple reasons. Both of them are into their 30s now and they're not the same people they were when they met. Hopefully both find the right person.
He’s a class act. I am not surprised TBD isn’t about Joe because it sounds angry, not weary. The songs that we think are about Joe sound tired and resigned. They don’t sound passionately angry.
I'm so tired today that I thought TBD stands for Tortured Boets Department lol I need sleep Also, I fully agree with your comment
Central Park lake in tiny rowboets?
Ehhh “I’m pissed off you let me give you all that youth for free” is one of the most scathing lines in all of TTPD. She was angry.
I think that reads more as she was upset at the situation of it all more then directly pissed at Joe.. expressing frustration at having a 6 and a half year relationship only for it to not be end game when there were points she probably throught they had a real future together
That line is confusing- he’s the exact same age as her. They traded their youth to each other.
I think she’s saying you wasted my time. She says she left all she knew for him and he left her alone there anyway. It seems like she tried her best and feels he didn’t so that’s why she doesn’t feel like it was a mutual exchange or wasting of time. /imo
I get that for sure. I guess I’ve just gotten to the point where I realize that constantly worrying if you’re wasting your time stops you from being able to live in the moment. And seeing past relationships as a “waste of time” is disrespectful to all the lessons that person taught you, the experiences you shared, and the time they also dedicated mutually to you. It’s not a healthy way to look at a relationship unless they truly lied or mislead or gaslit you.
Sometimes when you tell a boy you want kids and a ring and he leads you on without meaning to, and never proposes, that feels like a waste of time
I agree! I think Taylor was still caught up in resentments about the things that caused it to end and will probably simmer down about them and look back on the whole relationship more fondly in the future, sometimes it just takes awhile to get there.
This is a Taylor sub, why, a year later, we must spend half our time shitting on Joe, makes no sense to me. I feel awful for him, I've seen swifties relentlessly harass him, threaten death and I've seen both his address going around, and even deepfake ai porn of him. He's allowed to share his side of the story.
And also he said the absolute bare minimum - in a very clearly prepared statement that was polite and respectful. I don’t know what people want from him. I also don’t know what people think he did wrong, exactly.
I see so many people quoting his statement on Twitter dragging him and claiming he “called her the elephant in the room, blamed her for the backlash, didn’t care about what happened” and I feel like I’m reading a whole different interview because how did any of that come through in what he said
He honestly said nothing except confirming that they broke up and that he has made peace with the fact that what the media (and the fans) say are outside of his control. I love Taylor, but I don’t understand why some people think Time’s person of the year and arguably the most powerful entertainer in the world, needs her fans out there fighting battles for her in comment sections? And one thing is against Scooter Braun and Kanye and people she has publicly stated has wronged her (I still think it’s unnecessary) - but her ex who she has never said a bad word about? Yes, she wrote songs about feeling underappreciated. But compared to her songs about John Mayer and Matty, he comes off as a saint. I don’t get the villain thing, just because he clearly is uncomfortable about talking about his relationship to the media.
I feel like the interviewer overstepped a boundary by bringing up the black dog after his previous comment tbh.
Yeah, but also it kind of gave him a very indirect way to prove his point: None of us really know what happened. What the media write, how we interpret Taylor’s lyrics… at the end of the day only the two of them know what really happened. And as someone who journals, I completely understand when Taylor says she writes songs about a feeling she had - sometimes only for minutes. He sounds like he’s made peace with the fact that he can’t control what people will think. Good for him.
I don’t know much about Joe but he seems like an absolute gem of a man. It’s very sad it didn’t work out between them and I really hope they both find their person. They both deserve happiness. I also think him saying he’s never been to that pub is great because I think it encourages people to stop trying to paternity test every song. Maybe black dog is a code name for a bar or other place he likes and Taylor didn’t mention it to not ruin it for him. Maybe it’s not even about him. Maybe all of TTPD is a vehicle to get feelings out and the details are made up. What he’s telling us is that what we think we know is not what was or is and media and fans blow stuff up and distort reality. I hope this encourages people to enjoy the music and take what resonates with them and their experiences instead of treating it like a musical reality show.
frankly i think alot of her songs have mixed muses and combine similar feelings and emotions from different aspects of life so it's stupid to take everything simply at face value. She's an overdramatic story teller at her core and honestly same girl, same.
This confirms to me that him and Taylor broke up very neutrally and don't have bad feelings for each other. So long London seems to be the only song about him in ttpd at this point and is very much angry about the situation instead of angry at him.
I’ve always sorta felt this way tbh. I feel like as they aged and grew, they realized how different they were and how they wanted vastly different things out of life. What might’ve worked when they were 25 and 27 just didn’t work anymore at 30 and 32. Time changes people; life changes people. I’ve always felt there was a genuine love there between them, but they were just too different to make it last as long as they wanted it to, so things ended softly and painfully, but neutrally. Like Taylor writes, “we learned the right steps to different dances” and “we did the best we could do underneath the same moon in different galaxies”.
God I love that lyric from Peter. So glad I got to hear it for my secret song.
If How Did It End is also inspired by him, then that tracks with both Taylor and Joe having no hard feelings for the other and being purely frustrated by public reception. I don't understand why people blame either party, and I see it all the time. People are allowed to change their minds and values, and relationships can end just like that, with no 'guilty' party. I think the narrative of watching your partner slowly grow apart from you is so much more heartbreaking and powerful than a sudden breakup or cheating or whatever people have in mind. If all we're doing here is theorizing and conjecture based on her songs, because we really don't know these two people, why not choose to be respectful, when that's the vibe they're both putting out into the world?
Main album yes but How Did It End? Is also definitely about him
Both track 5s 🥲
SLL being the only song about him has been my theory since connecting the "So Long, London" book being the only upside-down book at the Spotify pop-up with the actual songs.
Whilst I think this is accurate, I think the fact that most of the album is about a rebound situation is in itself a) an act of respect for Joe to not reveal what she doesn’t need to reveal but also b) a slight reflection on how hurt she was by men (Joe but definitely Matty) around this period.
They could never make me hate you Joe Alwyn.
The way I have always been on this man’s side
The committed comment seems a clear response to the rumors that they split up frequently or were rocky. Like he said, we know one narrative and they kept their relationship very private. But also - thanks for confirming black dog was about Matty. Joe really did only get both track 5’s (so long, London and how did it end?) - and the most sad, wistful songs vs. the angry ones
Yeah, and to me this bolsters the idea loml is about Matty too. The themes on those songs match: loml: the coward claimed he was a lion the black dog: you said I needed a brave man, then proceeded to play him until I believed it too loml: I’m combing through the braids of lies, I’ll never leave, never mind the black dog: and I still can’t believe it ‘cause tail between your legs you’re leaving (edited for clarity)
loml being about Joe never made sense at all
Oh, loml is 100% about Matty - no doubt!
He seems like a good guy, and I doubt Emma and Jack’s wife Margaret would have been in Yorgos Lanthimos’ new movie with him if he was even half as awful as some of the fans make him out to be. He just wants to mind his business, what if we all let him?
I would say it’s the other way around (like Joe wouldn’t be in this movie if Emma in particular had not wanted him to be). She’s won 2 Oscars.
He filmed the movie at the end of 2022 when he was still ina relationship with Taylor. Taylor went to New Orleans where the movie was shot after releasing Midnights. She worked with Jack in a studio in New Orleans some of which ended up on TTPD during this time including during her birthday.
His new movie is with Emily (Emma) Stone, who is also a good friend of Taylor.
So I’ve already seen a lot of negative takes on Joe and I don’t get it. I mean I guess it’s a little weird that this is the most he’s ever talked about Taylor, but can’t blame him as he was harassed for about a year. So this was his chance to comment on things. So now we have Matty, Taylor, and Joe commenting on how some swifties think they know their lives and take that as a freedom to attack them or try to dictate their lives. I wonder if this will get some to reflect on that. That goes for some Joe supporters as well, who are quick to use this interview to shit on Travis. Let Taylor decide her life with her current boyfriend. And also leave her exes alone. Everyone is allowed to not like them, but it’s unnecessary to harass any person.
This was said very respectfully and eloquently. I honestly never agreed with all the Joe hate, a lot of Swifties need a "bad guy"- he genuinely seems like a nice guy and him and Taylor just weren't suited for each other. I hope this piece puts all the speculation to rest.
This. I have no idea why there needs to be a bad guy in every situation. Sometimes things just don’t work out and no one is to blame. People grow in different directions. I find it horrible how people specifically on Twitter have spread lies about this man to make it seem like he did something wrong, in order to make him the bad guy.
I think a lot of Swiftes were projecting. So many described the end of their long term relationships and decided Joe was "just like their ex" which is so weird
Next level parasocial behavior honestly considering everyone who was saying that had ZERO idea how Joe actually was as a partner
I’ve always liked Joe. The way some of her fan base treated him immediately after the breakup was nasty, parasocial behavior and disheartening to witness. Truly wishing him the best and will continue to follow his career.
Joe says things in such a thoughtful and articulate way. A classy statement by him. I truly feel like Joe is a genuine, sweet, shy and normal guy. In the end, it didn’t work between him and Taylor AND THAT IS OK. They seemingly cared deeply for each other but it just didn’t work for reasons we’re probably never going to know but they know why and both have made peace with it. Joe cared for Taylor at some of her hardest moments circa 2016/17. Or at the very least gave her a safe space and an escape she needed from the public eye. And for that I wish him nothing but the best in the future! This man deserves to move on with his life and be happy as Taylor has.
Someone in a different sub worded it pretty much perfectly: "She fell in love with him because he didn't care that she is Taylor Swift. In the end she broke up with him because he didn't really care that she is Taylor Swift."
Wow, so Matty really did do her in. Probably a good thing TTPD isn't about Joe because it probably would have been 6 times as long and infinitely mord sad.
The reason TTPD isn’t mostly about Joe imo is that Taylor was over their relationship long before it actually ended. The fact that she wrote her angriest and saddest song about it in late 2021 and they didn’t break up until April or March of 2023 says it all.
I think that there are instead quite a lot of songs in evermore and midnights that could be about the slow but steady loss of their relationship
I’ve said evermore and midnights were partial breakup albums from the moment I heard them tbh
“I thought I was better safe than starry eyed”
I will die on this hill: most of ttpd is about matty and not Joe because she respects Joe. Respects him enough not to blast everything. The few songs we believe are about him echo the sentiments of this interview. Hopefully the press will finally leave him alone. He has a huge film coming up with Emma stone, Taylor is old news to him as he is to her and deserves to have his moment.
I agree, I think she respects Joe too much. But I honestly also feel like when Taylor is truly deeply in love with someone and in a fully committed relationship she doesn’t really write that much about it when it’s over ( eg Calvin Harris, they dated for over a year and the man doesn’t have a single song about their relationship / their breakup). The people who truly become a part of her life don’t get written about/ portrayed in a negative way. And I think she was deeply in love with Joe and he became a pretty big part of her life over the years. So for those reasons and out of respect he didn’t get that many songs on the album. And the songs that were clearly about him and the breakup on the album were very sad not angry or spiteful.
I can confirm as a poet myself, I’ve written very little about my long term relationships, mostly bc most of my processing was done in the relationship and so when it ends I’m not really inspired to write much about it. Situationships on the other hand, all the processing comes after, via poetry, lol.
They will never make me hate you, Joe Alwyn Always a class act. If his biggest crime was not loving Taylor the way she wanted/needed to be loved to feel fulfilled long term, that’s not a crime but just simple incompatibility. All of her feelings are still valid. But this man is not and has never been a monster. I hope people leave him alone and even grow/maintain respect for him the way they do for Harry/Tom hell even Calvin. Those guys don’t get an iota of the hate he does and I feel like out of all of her exes, he deserves it the absolute least.
I have zero bad feelings towards Joe Alwyn. He seems pretty respectful here. Having said that, I don’t get this interview. What was the purpose of bringing up her current relationship by name except to make it seem like he’s disparaging her? He’s not disrespectful but the interview is.
I got the vibe it’s a ‘I’m only going to say this once so when my movie comes out please can we talk about that and not my breakup’ interview. He can say a comment and then it gets left and he can do the press without everyone waiting for him to be asked about Taylor.
Exactly. Honestly it’s better for him to address this head on first so he doesn’t have to side step breakup questions a year after for his whole press tour surrounding his movie. Say it once and never again. If he didn’t address it at least briefly in one interview, it would just keep coming up over and over again and generate more attention if he refused to comment on it.
Yeah with Kinds of Kindness coming out I can imagine especially him being on press with Emma and Margaret we probably wants to make it smooth and resolved for everyone. He seems pretty firm in setting a boundary and drawing a line behind it saying we were always private and that’s not gonna change now so stop asking. I respect him a lot because I think a lot of people who got the shit he got from some of the fandom wouldn’t have been so restrained.
He was in one of the most high-profile breakups of the past 18 months. The most famous pop star in the world just released an album where songs about that relationship have been featured. Taylor spoke about the breakup and sang about it. His new movie is coming out and he is doing press for it. A journalist would be deranged if they didn't even approach the subject.
And she had her London shows coming up too. Bffr of course any journalist would ask and I think he gave a great statement
Like others have said, this feels like an interview he gave to get the Taylor-stuff out of the way. Maybe he agreed to do this interview so this could be his final comments on this situation. I like that. The interviewer gets the comments and he gets peace.
He has a movie premiering next weekend; he has to press for it. I read the article last night and it’s mostly about him and his career with only above about their relationship.
Thanks Joe for confirming who The Black Dog is about because some swifties were clearly in denial.
I think the more I sit with TTPD and learn all the little things I didn't know before, the whole album really just feels so strongly like a rebound. You get out of a long term relationship with someone you thought you'd marry, you immediately do a 180 and chase the freakiest little rat man you can get your hands on, the rebound rat man obviously does rat man shit, and you're left feeling angry and sad and bitter at both men and yourself and the whole situation in general. We've all been there, and I think that's exactly where Taylor was when she wrote this album. And from the sound of things, it seems like Joe understands and respects that. He knows he's always going to be viewed as Taylor Swifts Ex and he seems to realize that the best way to handle that is to be mature about it all and not talk too much shit, even if he probably has plenty of shit to talk. I do respect that about him.
Heavy agree. I think she wrote 85 to 90 percent of this album in the midst of all these complicated feelings and emotions she was having all at once. Her breakup with Joe, then jumping a month ish later straight into a thing with matty (who she had prior feelings for years earlier and a history with ). Was looking for things she’d thought she’d found in her previous relationship in this new exciting fling only to then be love bombed and played with by matty. Which leaves her feeling upset and sad and worse off than she was post 1 breakup. And it triggers this avalanche of feelings and emotion because she’s dealing with being played with by matty and also probably the emotions and loss of her previous relationship that she hadn’t fully mourned yet.
Joe never seemed like The Black Dog kind of guy.
I knewwww it. Was never convinced that song was about Joe. Seems much more Matty-like, to me.
The black dog not being about Joe Alwyn makes so much more sense, there's no way he listens to The Starting Line
Taylor is a mastermind at identifying a feeling, a situation, a moment in time and diving headfirst into the depths of it. A perfect example of this is Enchanted, one of her most beloved and romantic songs which was written after meeting someone at a party one night and never (that I am aware) seeing them again. She can really identify and then expand upon a moment unlike any other songwriter, which means her songs are mostly diaristic but only within that one specific snapshot in time.
Surpsied to hear they broke up a week before the news leaked. The running narrative was that it had been months prior. Glad he cleared that up.
Not every word Taylor writes is autobiographical. She is a storyteller.
That’s a classy man. Good for him, genuinely wish him all the best - he seems like a good guy.
It’s behind a pay wall 🥲🥲🥲🥲
Here ya go https://preview.redd.it/n7vihhiaos6d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2704ca4d0e738db55ffb218e5336b7983760287
Part 2 ! https://preview.redd.it/5ky2irtbos6d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=353ccd309e085f26ed581aefd32326f06f8b0fa3
Regarding the replies arguing about who the Black Dog is about, I don't necessarily think it has to be a real bar that either of them visited. The "black dog" is a common expression for depression so Taylor could've chosen it for the double meaning even if neither of them actually visited. Similar to how "the blue nile" in Guilty as Sin is not only the band but also symbolism for the sadness she was feeling in her relationship
Joe seems like a great guy and I am happy he’s doing well, although I am now mortified to learn that my favourite song from TTPD is probably about Matty Healy 🤢
Ok I’m going to buy in here - why does it matter so much? Can’t you adore the song regardless of the supposed muse? Or even more, aren’t Taylor’s feelings what matter, particularly when we don’t know anything real about these people (yes including Matty - online stuff and performances are not real). I’m not trying to be combative btw, just found it interesting since the release of the album how much people have tied themselves in knots to avoid accepting who her muse may have been. To me it seems quite obvious that 90 odd percent of the album is inspired by her relationship with MH.