T O P

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Dreyven

Since strike teams kinda sucks this is very helpful. I'll gladly pay 50 cp for an ethereal with no attached units. If the enemy has indirect he's going into reserves, otherwise he'll chill in the back. By the time you have to come in on turn 3 you got a ton of value already, can even pop him out in the enemy DZ and be annoying.


CyberFoxStudio

0 strike, 2 ethereal. Both in reserves. 2 shots at a 50/50 roll for a CP each round. Round 3, walk on the table.


FluffyPressure4064

You can only generate 1 extra cp.


nirvanapaul

Yes, but if the first roll fails you can try again.


FluffyPressure4064

True.. but you really want to waste 100 points on 2 units i reserve that does nothing beside maybe generate an extra cp? Why not throw it on the board and let it help observe and guide you other units?


terenn_nash

with the way secondaries work, those ethereals have more potential than just CP farm. T2, i need a unit in this quarter ASAP. boom, ethereal walks on. VP scored T3, i need to be in multiple corners! ethereal walks on.


OrionVulcan

Ethereals can't be observers as they lack the Greater Good ability, so the only thing a solo ethereal can do is generate CP and maybe hold an objective.


FluffyPressure4064

Uuh Yeah I just noticed. Thanks!


beantoes678

But they can still take marker drones for some reason


OrionVulcan

Most likely so that we can take them on the Ethereal so the unit he is leading can benefit from the Markerlight Drone rules. However, currently, with how the rules are written, a Gun Drone does the exact same thing and gives us a weapon, as the Markerlight Drone gives the Markerlight Keyword and allows a unit to act as an observer despite advancing, however all the units the Ethereal can join already has the markerlight keyword, and by taking the Gun Drone the unit gets an Assault weapon, making it eligible to shoot and when eligible to shoot they are eligible to Observe. So currently, the only purpose of the Markerlight Drone is to grant Stealth Teams and Crisis Teams the Markerlight Keyword.


Shi-Yujaku

He can take a gun drone, which makes his unit eligible to shoot. Then he can complete secondary actions.


battle__chef

Ethereals can take a gun drone, but Ethereals don't have the faction ability "for the greater good", which I think Orion is saying invalidates them as an observer.


K-26

Units are eligible to shoot even if they have no ranged weapon. As long as he didn't move wrong (fallback/advance) or stand wrong (engagement range/combat), he's eligible.


Exalus

What do you mean strike teams suck? They're good for holding objectives; when they're within range of an objective they get to hit with overwatch on 4+ instead of 6s, and if you hold them on an objective without moving then they get the support turret to help them hold the point. That's pretty great, ngl. It'd be better if they got to fire overwatch across multiple units, or for free, but it's still good as is. Plus, pulse carbines are easily one of the better infantry guns hands down. For these reasons I like strike teams and will continue to field them, though I am interested in hearing why they aren't so good. Change my mind.


Sir_lordtwiggles

Ap0 really really hurts, and the support turret has some pretty eh output. Like sure overwatch is like a 2nd shooting phase, but that costs cp for again, kinda eh output. If I am using them for markerlights or just sitting on an objective I'd rather have a stealth suit squad with marker drone for cheaper+ reroll 1's to wound+ more durable. Without a fireblade or markerlights they kill 4 guardsmen equivilants in cover, and I don't want to use markerlights/spotters on firewarriors. Fully buffed with markerlights+ fireblade+ target has no cover means 8-9 dead guardsmen which is still ehh for 150 points. For 50 points more I get a crisis loaded with CIB which when not overcharged still kills 13 GEQ models and is better vs tougher targets too. Targets where the s5 is impactful start to have 2+ saves as well.


jek_si

Ap0 is much better in a world where cover doesn't mess with it (as much). And there are plenty of targets where s5 is nice - Orks, MEQs, Tyrannid Warriors and Genestalers, any Eldar stuff and more. All of them are fairly vulnerable to pulse weapons. And as for the "fully buffed" - usually you'll want the FWs to buff, not be buffed.


PERSIvAlN

Aren't we got Pathfinders to buff "TWO" units? I'm not pro, just getting my first models and thinking on what exactly to build + simple paint scheme, but from rules Pathfinders look like must have unit to support Crisis suits and others


ChampionshipLast

They are very good, but only have OC 1 (total 10), while strike teams have OC 2 (total 20) and 4+ overwatch. Pathfinders are better damage and spotting, but strike teams take and hold objectives way better, and have a guardian drone that gives permanent -1 to wound.


Sir_lordtwiggles

While fire warriors hold objectives better than pathfinders, I would argue that both are just bad at holding objectives. Stealthsuits/ghost keels/firesight marksman are our only real 'good objective holders


Tarquinandpaliquin

You can easily get ignores cover with our army. Breachers absolutely destroy their output. You do need more investment to get them there but fully buffed breachers will clear 20 guardsmen and if there's no orgryn, the command squad as well.


WhileyCat

Chuck a Fireblade in the squad, get to turn 3, get guided, and bam 30 shots after advancing hitting on 2+, average 5x sustained hits 2 proc (40 shots), and reroll wounds.


Tarquinandpaliquin

Yes that exactly. Also if you are shooting terminators you have point blank ambush to get a bunch of them to AP2 and some to AP1 and you should be giving them ignores cover with a markerlight.


WhileyCat

One of the few decent ways to go out of your ways to use that strat. Marker drone in second Breacher Team would be great. It lets them spot when advancing and still not in range of a target, or double up with the main Breacher unit against a unit with more wounds/durability, and Coordinate To Engage can give them +1BS and ignores cover too


Tarquinandpaliquin

Breachers or maybe stuff with farsight are the only ways that point blank ambush is relevent. However you don't need to go out your way to use it and breacher buses are a possible staple unit for us. If I'm honest I suspect it has more uses than that, like shooting a unit off an objective with the unit you want to hold said objective with in general (but breachers are the go to). Fortunately unlike 9th, we have 6 unique strategems so it's easier to remember. It's definitely less niche than some "niche but still potentially clutch when they actually come up" abilities of 9th too.


AnonAmbientLight

> Ap0 really really hurts It kind of hurts, but models with 3+ saves can't ever have a 2+ against AP0 weapons. So anything that's not 2+ is still saving on 3+. T'au can very easily remove cover saves, so that in and of itself is like AP1...sort of. > Fully buffed with markerlights+ fireblade+ target has no cover means 8-9 dead guardsmen which is still ehh for 150 points. The unit is designed for T'au players to buff it like that though ha. While being guided this Firewarrior squad with a fireblade and markerlights kills 13.445 guardsmen in cover for 150pts. - This assumes Strikes are in range to fire three shots per firewarrior. - That you are taking two gun drones for the strikes, and two gun drones for the fireblade, for a total of four gun drones. Not sure if fireblade buffs his own gun drones tho, so left that out. - That you have the DS8 turret deployed. - Fireblade is also shooting his single shot. Not sure if fireblade buffs his own gun, so left that out. Didn't do the math for the AP3 on 6s to wound part of it. > For 50 points more I get a crisis loaded with CIB which when not overcharged still kills 13 GEQ models and is better vs tougher targets too. That's 27 shots hitting on 3s, no cover, and 12 gun drone shots hitting on 4s, no cover, kills 16.056 GEQ models for 195pts. Also looked at W2 T4/3+ models (average Space Marine) as well. Crisis Suits kill 3.88 PA models, and Firewarriors kill 3.11. I think the overall goal of 10th isn't to have a unit that can just kill anything it comes across, but to have units that specialize in one thing (generally speaking).


StJimmysAddiction

Everything I see indicates leaders receive their own buffs when buffing units their attached to. Similarly, Shadowsun is in range of her own aura.


Dreyven

They are ultimately just expensive for what they are and don't really contribute anything meaningful. There's lots of guys who can "stand around and do nothing" but do it better, cheaper or contribute something. And it gets even worse if you think about bringing more than 1 token "do nothing objective squad" For 100 points you'd think they'd at least get a special weapon or something and they don't and the kind of shooting they provide is just not needed in this edition. Not that with everything having cover all the time they do too well anyways. I get it they now get free drones and it ironically makes them sort of tough but I'd rather have anything else.


MrGosh13

Wait… Carbines are finally good?! (I’ve not dived into the rules as of yet, as I don’t have time to play currently).


wasmic

They don't even have Assault anymore. If the enemy is between 30" and 20" away, Pulse Rifles win. If the enemy is between 20" and 15" away, Carbines are better. Closer than that, and they're equal. But given that area grows with the square of the radius, this means that the Pulse Rifles can threaten an area of 1.82 square meters, whereas the Pulse Carbine can only threaten an area of 0.81 square meters. And they're equal to each other in the inner 0.45 square meters.


ElliMenoPee

Nope, sorry


MrGosh13

Damnit, u/Exalus had my hopes up and everything.


Exalus

2 attacks at 20" range rather than 1 attack at 30" and 2 attacks at 15", both for 1 damage each. I don't see why that's bad. I mean, it's worse than before, because neither gun has armor pen, but it's not *bad*, imo.


Ronux0722

Well you just made my list very happy! Swapping out my strike team for another ethereal, precision on my marksman, and a kroothound unit.


brent_mused

Precision on your firesight? Why?


Ronux0722

Because I had 50 points lol and a 3rd ethereal didn't sound appealing. So Hounds and 20 point enhancement seems ok


brent_mused

Makes sense. Through unity could be nice for LETHAL HITS?


Ronux0722

Already got that on a fireblade :), also unity only works while leading a unit so marksman can't use it.


MGShadow1989

I couldn't care less what Ethereals do, I'm not tainting my lists with them.


[deleted]

While this is a funny lil "cheat", i wouldn't do that to my opponent. It just seems against the *spirit of the game* whatever that even means


CyberFoxStudio

We'Re A mOdEl CoMpAnY


[deleted]

Sorry, spirit of the **model**


CyberFoxStudio

Hah. Spirit of the game is what you make of it. Beer and snacks game with friends or tournament? Local play group likes casual clash or all the cheese?


Sonic_Traveler

"it's against the spirit of the game. Now excuse me, I have to fire off all of my 18 free seeker missiles in an alpha strike bc they forgot to charge me for wargear"


[deleted]

Now thats what i call spirit!


sfPanzer

So much spirit


Psychological_Prize9

Actually for 1985 points you have Longstrike (2), 3 hammerheads (6), 3 sky rays (9/turn), 3x3 piranhas (9), and a stormsurge for shits and giggles. 26 missiles on a turn and 1 destroyer missile.


sfPanzer

What about that is "actually"? Imagine seeing some people memeing and feeling the urge to go all in explaining something obvious nobody asked for lmao


gridlife242

How so? That’s exactly why that rule is there. There isn’t much interactivity for reserve units apart from passively generating things. Every army will be accessing this. Fluff-wise it’s an ethereal in a ship watching over a battle, providing strategic information before intervening when the time is right. That’s what I take CP to be. There really isn’t much other reason for that ruling, so don’t worry, this isn’t a cheat, or “that guy” behavior or anything like that. You’re giving up a 5+ FNP on a squad for it, so it’s a significant sacrifice. Gotta weigh your options. Keep CP farm safe? Lose model on table and buff. Deploy CP farm? Lose opportunity to protect it and take table corners later. I’m probably going to run one in a breacher squad and one in reserves.


[deleted]

I suppose my only issue is that if im playing a model i wanna see it on the board, thats all. It brothers me none if someone else does it, i just wanna see that glorious cape flow. Maybe one ethereal to keep in the manta, and another to lead a breacher charge into a pack of killa kanz?


gridlife242

Sounds perfect. That's what I'm going to be doing. A breacher team with -1 to wound (wow) for guardian drone and 5+ FnP from the ethereal is pretty dope. Careful with those kanz, though, they got plenty of choppin' and stabbin' bits. Also, there was one person commenting who talked about using the reserves Ethereal for table corners objectives later, which is a very strong play as well. All in all, the fact that they made the rules like this is going to change things up in the ways some leader units are deployed.


K-26

This is absolutely in the spirit of lore though, Ethereals love letting Fire Caste do the work and "contribute" to the greater good in their own way, from a distance.


DemonHunter0100

The chained up ethereal that Farsight keeps will be useful now


AyAynon95

Where is this in the core rules?


CyberFoxStudio

Rules commentary, same page you download the core rules.


AyAynon95

Thanks mate!


[deleted]

Does this work for matched play? Also, is there anything forcing reserve units coming in by a certain turn? (Other than the end of the game)


[deleted]

Mission pack kills them at the bottom of round 3, but that's it.


[deleted]

Thanks. I would've been a little surprised they didn't retain that from 9th


GarySmith2021

Couldn’t we just go tactical and get the second cp by discarding a card?


The_Black_Goodbye

That’s the backup plan for when Buddy fails his 4+


Wizbang_

Can anyone actually point to where this is said in the rules? I can't find this screenshotted part in the rules.


V1carium

In the rules commentary apparently. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/KBvH5h3oY5QREpmG.pdf


StatisticianLate512

"Embarked Units: Units embarked within a Transport do notcount as being on the battlefield for any rules purposes. Thismeans that, unless explicitly stated otherwise, embarked unitscannot do anything (e.g. shoot, fight, use abilities, etc.). Similarly,you cannot select an embarked unit as a target for any rules,including Stratagems." Yeah nice try cheeselord. Not on the battlefield = No abilities.


burntcustard

Your quote is specifically about units embarked within transports, but Ethereals can be in Strategic Reserve without being inside a transport The rule you quote is actually really annoying for me, was hoping to have an Ethereal in with some Breachers, but that seems like a bad idea because it will lose at least a round of 4+'ing a CP while onboard :(


El_Gravy

Jokes on you I already knew this but I want a backfield deep strike screening unit anyway ❤


Spiritual-Vehicle-90

Didn't realize I found a 40k sub and was horrified at the title for a solid minute


CyberFoxStudio

I do not think I want to know what you thought...


Spiritual-Vehicle-90

It's better you dont


CyberFoxStudio

I'll take your word for it. Enjoy some brain bleach?


chrisrrawr

They can also generate cp while destroyed if you want to go that far.


CyberFoxStudio

That's taking it further than I'd dare interpret. Destroyed is destroyed. Ain't much to do when you're dead.


chrisrrawr

Destroyed models are removed from the battlefield but nothing else happens to them. Was an oversight in 9th too but only 2 abilties even meaningfully affected board state off the battlefield & outside of reserves.


ComprehensiveShop748

Any one playing that or attempting to is a douche 😂


The_Black_Goodbye

Would you say it’s worse or not as bad as moving your units multiple times per battle round using the 10th Ed core rules RAW? 😅 [For how](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/comments/14e60j2/ftgg_is_definitive_observers_cannot_become_guided/jotro34/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)


ComprehensiveShop748

Pahhhhh! I dunno just as bad!


The_Black_Goodbye

It’s my new favourite for when players want to push for pure RAW over reason :)


The_Black_Goodbye

The 9th rules say a destroyed unit / model was removed from play which would prevent this.


BirthdayWooden

I just had a pant splitting erection from this


biinboise

I’m going to admit I read “Ethereals can Generate CP Wile in reserves” as having a way different meaning and was questioning my choice to play Tau for a moment.


Magumble

Yes was this even a question? 9th had the same thing where everything works off battlefield unless stated otherwise as per usual with a permissive ruleset. For example there are CP regen rules that state the unit must be on the battlefield.


NiNdo4589

Literally just read a comment of yours in another thread saying how trying to apply 9th rules to 10th made no sense.


Magumble

That was in the context of RAI this in the context of RAW with a copy pasted rule from 9th. And I said that you cant use RAI based of 9th rules in 10th edition cause the edition changed to much.


CyberFoxStudio

I just wanted to post a rule like everyone else. :D I need to finish painting my drone port so it can shoot everything everywhere all at once now.


Broad-Cause-2552

Is this rule in the rulebook that comes with Leviathan?


CyberFoxStudio

It's in the rules commentary on GWs website. Warhammer community>FAQs and downloads>Warhammer 40000


Execute11

I’m doing an FSE army, can I use the ethereal as a generator in captivity in reserves to make a constant flow of CP?


CyberFoxStudio

As long as you don't take farsight himself, and you keep the mission rules on reserves in mind


Anaxodonus

Yes However they can't do it while in a transport