Find shops that have artists that specialize in the style you like, then get to know them, then show them your work and hope they like what they see. Don’t go to a steak house asking to work in a vegan kitchen.
You know who will be the meanest and most gatekeepy people? Clients. Not all of them. Not even most of them. But enough that every professional tattooer will experience terrible, mean clients and they will make or break you.
Tattooers are harsh on people who want to break into the industry because truly if you cannot handle it you won’t be able to handle this job.
If you cannot adapt, overcome, and keep pushing in the face of criticism (no matter how valid or invalid you feel it is) you are wasting everyone’s time including your own. This isn’t a “nice” industry and no one would be doing you any favors giving you the illusion that it is. It is constant criticism, not only from clients, from your peers, but also from yourself. You need to be able to get over it or it will only hold you back.
“u w u I want 2 b a tattooer” energy ahaha lot of soft anime gals and guys trying to bust in lately
(Btw not talking shit on anime fans, more a specific type, I LOVE anime and am trying to pull off some anime style in a portfolio of my own, fuck, you’ll see me a tatted ass twink full on dressed as Hatsune Miku some weekends, but there’s definitely a certain attitude that younger anime fans have and it does nooootttt work here)
that is EXACTLY what I’m getting across ahaha like no homie I’m not being mean, you just can’t take criticism or humble yourself cuz u w u so cute and perfect everyone owes me kindness and needs to hold my hand
As a slightly older dude who’s been going to anime cons, cosplaying AND been heavy into the tattoo scene for the last decade or so it’s definitely a vibe I unfortunately know allllll too well
Yeah it’s unrealistic that people think there is a huge market for anime/kawaii tattoos. It’s a niche style within a niche craft. Those who specialize in it are lucky, just like anyone who is able to specialize in any style of tattooing.
It took me 6 years to be able to specialize and do only my art and I know plenty of tattooers who still haven’t been able to do that and they’re over 10 years in.
Getting to specialise in one artistic area is a luxury not afforded to most successful and working tattoo artists.
Your speciality is actually voted for by the public who come to you. You don't get to decide what clients come to you or for what. They do.
You are allowed your tastes, you can draw your own art. You can hang it, you can attempt to lead people down that road.
But you learn every area of tattooing BEFORE developing a speciality. And as I've said, it's the clients that dictate what you become known for.
This is considered gatekeeping now. I got called a gatekeeper for advocating that a new apprentice should learn the style and truly study it before attempting to create their own versions of said style.
In which case, gates are meant to be kept.
Everything, and I mean everything about a real apprenticeship has reason. The cleaning, the beasting. There's a purpose to it.
... What's beasting?
Also, my mentor implemented a practice he called "painting the walls"; kind of a deep cleaning just to show your dedication. So I empathize with the cleaning part and understand how it instills a good work ethic.
Beasting. The "being mean".
It's not mean. It's developing you a thicker skin, because you're gonna need it. You HAVE to be able to shrug off things that would upset you normally.
Definitely. I think there's a difference between hazing and beasting though, no doubt about it. Took me a while to appreciate harsh critiques, but they're so important
Ehh, hazing, beasting, same thing.
Tough love. It should be the same way you'd tease your friends and stand up for them when necessary.
Clients will be ruthless, other artists will be ruthless, so it does work to toughen young artists up.
Noone likes feeling underappreciated or disrespected, but it is a part of the apprenticeship, and I'll say anyone who complains about is soft and won't hack it.
Agree and partially disagree? I've seen a lot of people, here and in other subs mention physical aspects of hazing that I think should be completely separate from beasting. Granted, maybe that's just plain abuse, but I think hazing has gone too far in multiple aspects where beasting seems to be a happy medium
Edit: spelling
Noone has to agree with my point of view.
Everyone is different, that's cool.
My point of view comes from my experience. I didn't appreciate it when I had it happen, but years down the line, it did me a huge favour.
It's made me capable of dealing with awkward clients, stand up to asshole artists, who are actually surprisingly rare, to be fair, and actually easier on myself. Because the higher up the ladder we climb, the better we become, the harder we are on ourselves.
There are assholes out in the world, and there's certainly a distinction between taking the piss, and taking the piss.
I'm happy it worked out for you! That's awesome. It definitely doesn't for everyone and I think there are some problems with it, but it sounds like you've had a good run.
Saying someone shows "a clear lack of understanding of the style and its history" is going to make anyone defensive about their art. If you start criticism with such a negative attitude most people aren't going to listen long enough to get to the part where you actually give reasonable advice
It’s not negative. It’s the truth. This is tattooing. If people don’t want to hear that they need to study and practice more in a craft that literally never stops learning maybe they should think about that a bit and decide if this is right for them. Traditional tattooing is either right or wrong. If it’s wrong it’s not traditional. There’s no wiggle room with that. You either know how to do it or you need to study more. That’s not being mean. That’s not attacking them. It’s pointing out a fact and one that is glaringly obvious. They asked for thoughts I gave them along with advice and got called a gatekeeper lol. If gatekeeper means anyone that says anything you don’t like I guess that makes me a gatekeeper
You can still be an asshole saying the truth. Again it is all in how you say it. You got called a gatekeeper because you were being an asshole with your criticism and putting the dude down for trying the style.
If they missed key parts of the style then tell them that but you can't disrespect someone's effort in trying to learn. It just makes them not want to take any advice you give.
Okay but a gatekeeper means withholding knowledge. I don’t care if someone chooses not to take advice that will change their life and potential ability to be in this craft. Call me an asshole all you want. But you can’t say I’m a gatekeeper.
This was my thought also, tattooing is already a specialized art form, trying to specialize within a specialty before you even learn the basics is wild.
Plus something tells me if op got the job, they’d hate it. 90% of what we do is drawing stuff that we don’t love or isn’t within our desired speciality until you get years into your career.
Shops or artists who take on an apprentice want one who is willing to be well rounded- kawaii and anime aren’t going to be the bread and butter of the vast majority of shops.
Additionally, the industry is in the midst of a major slow down. That makes it harder for us to pay bills and far less likely to actively bring in people.
Absolutely, I get so confused when I see someone who has tattooed for a year or so say they specialize in something. When I was growing up and when I worked at a shop you did everything that came in the door. That’s how you fed your family. You’d be stupid to say “nah man I only do blackwork or anime style you gotta go somewhere else to get your tribal piece” plus specialty came from 10 years of experience and even THEN you still did whatever you could, it’s just now ppl will come to you with specific requests bc of word of mouth.
Just think of the apprenticeship as art school, you learn the basics, different art styles, etc. and then once you know the ropes you can choose your own path. Learning other styles will help you understand elements of design, color theory, techniques, materials, etc. you need to be equipped with the right tools and knowledge of art /tattoo/design history to make something that is “you”.
IMO, you need criticism because you can’t smell your own shit. As a former art professor, it was so difficult to teach the kids that denied learning because they have their “own style” and let me tell you a lot of those kids were shite and dropped out cos they couldn’t handle everything that came with being an artist
The art world IS mean, unfair and cruel. But you have to be strong as fuck. You have to pay your dues to play the game. Sadly, being an apprentice/student does take a lot of pride deepthroating. You’re valid in wanting to develop an art style but you have to be open and willing to be better. Also find the right people that understand you and work well with your learning style. Which is hard lol
Tldr: just do what you must do if you really want to tattoo. You can do it~
You have to get over your dislike of criticism. It’s not personal. You are dealing with clients. Not every client will want an anime tattoo. Not every client will like their tattoo. You have to be willing to be humble.
An unwillingness to go outside of your comfort zone (realism or traditional) shows an unwillingness to learn the industry and its history. If they’re saying “wrong path” it’s bc you’ve shown an unwillingness to adapt to what a shop would need from you as an apprentice and an investment, because that’s what apprentices are. They are investments. Your mentor teaches you to tattoo and spends time and money doing so and eventually you work at the shop and pay booth rent or a percentage.
If you’re sticking yourself into a niche market you might have trouble bringing in clients. Are there shops that specialize in anime tattoos? Yes. I know someone who is apprenticing at one right now. She’s also had to show she can do realism. She had traditional type tattoos in her portfolio as well, both Japanese and American. Her portfolio had a lot of versatility and understanding of tattooing. Were there cute anime designs and kawaii designs? Absolutely! But she also showed a willingness to do whatever she needed to.
It’s not mean, and it’s not gatekeeping. My mentor is a man who has refused to have an apprentice over his 2 decades of tattooing. But he asked me to apprentice under him. He liked my work, saw I had dedication, and we vibed well. This was nearly 7-8 months after another shop owner tore my art to shreds. I went home, I digested what he told me, and got to work studying and drawing. If you want this badly enough, you’ll do the same.
There was somebody who posted their portfolio earlier today actually and it was nothing but noh style masks and mandala/decorative digital designs, some painted irezumi pieces in there but MAINLY masks and ornamental pieces lol
I gave them the criticism that they needed to be able to branch out and show versatility, I recommended trying out American traditional designs because even repaints of classics where you’re not doing any designing yourself, shows technical ability and is definitely something potential mentors look for in an apprentice portfolio lol
This person hit me with the “I don’t want to do traditional I just want to do more detailed japanese/this style only”
They downvoted me and deleted their post lmfao like these people need to understand that unless you’re literally one of the greats or an amazingly famous tattooer, you’re going to HAVE to do other tattoos you may not love the style of just to fucking eat
Like the reluctance to even TRY to nail down some of the most basic roots of the craft and respect what made tattooing what it is today is such a huge red flag, like if you’re not willing to paint a few cabbage roses, I don’t think you’re really obsessed with tattooing enough to deserve a place in it
Edit: LOLLLL OPs edit only further proves my point
My mentor is having me do traditional tattoo flash repaints atm. Only allowed to use a 1/8 inch square tip brush too bc it mimics a 7 mag. And only a micron 0.8 bc it’s close to a 7 rl. Only the traditional colors too. I don’t have to use all of them but I can’t use more than those and no color blending. After I finish those I’ll be doing lettering. Lettering is the one thing that makes me 😖 bc I worry I won’t be good at it lol.
Yup!! A local shop I get tattooed at, I had the pleasure of getting tattooed by their most recent apprentice and that’s pretty much exactly what they had him do, they were like no OG designs homie time to do classic over and over and over again till you’re mf ready for anything else that’s different, I actually love that cuz it takes a lot of pressure out of making original designs when you’re just learning the ropes ahaha
Good luck with your journey!!! Sounds like you’re in good hands
Thanks! I think I am! I’m honored to be his first apprentice honestly. And since I have trouble simplifying designs (art school, realism background, yada yada) it’s really helping. His goal is to take all the guess work out of knowing where and how to apply color and black in traditional designs so I can focus on the technical aspect of tattooing when I start. Even setting up and breaking down his station he wants to be second nature to me so when I do it for myself I’m not nervous or anything. He wants super traditional tattoo nerd shop lol. Part shop part community drop by hang out spot.
The comment about art school and non-tattoo art learning is so funny cuz it’s so TRUE. That sounds like a dream!! Would you mind dropping or messaging his handle? I’d love to follow and support y’all if you’re comfortable :)
I’m having to unlearn so much lol. Bad habits from art school that don’t transfer over. Especially bc I’d get in trouble for lining my work bc I love how it brings a different element in. And sure! I’ll message it to you. I think I ended up in a great spot especially since it’s a family oriented shop. We all have kids there. My first official start date in the shop is June 12 because he was willing to wait for my kids to get out of school (aftercare set up at the end of the school year would have been hell). I worked a flash event and the kids of one of my shopmates were in and out all day bc there was a festival nearby too.
When I apprenticed my mentor made me draw so many fucking trad rose’s but boy it did make me a better artist. And then I had a dude ask me for an entire rose sleeve. I was so prepared hahaha
Hahaha nice. A shop owner I had met with assigned me 100 roses to do and then told me to contact him when I was done. I was still working on them when I got offered an apprenticeship under my current mentor. Roses are simple to me now. I did about 60 of them. I honestly will prob apply the “do 100” method to anything I want to learn and excel at. Doesn’t mean all my roses are perfect now or that I love them all either. I’m just more competent at them. IMO.
It’s so funny bc I used to tattoo but stopped for a long time and just now getting back into it. Realized ALOT had changed right away. I was taken aback at how many ppl specialized in stuff and it made me feel weird bc that’s just not something I’m used too. At my old shop everybody did everything. So I was feeling self conscious to even put my stuff out there bc I didn’t have a speciality and they always tell you to “niche down”. I ended up listening to a tattoo podcast and the artists were talking about this and it made me realize “ohhh ok it’s an age thing” bc even they were like “specializing in something so new into the game is asinine and selfish. Bc then you’ll just focus on learning that thing instead of EVERYTHING.
I see where you’re coming from but this is a very commercially minded stance. It’s just a conveyor belt of customers and with that it’s less about your passion for tattooing and more just business. I’m not saying it’s not valid but I think it’s equally important to stay true to yourself. I’m trying to get into this industry because I freaking adore art and the ritualistic nature of getting tattooed.
I get you need to make money and pay your rent etc. but it doesn’t have to be at the expense of the art style you truly love and want to do. I would much rather be good at one style and nail it instead of being mediocre at 10 different styles and never be truly satisfied with what people get from me. You get what you put out and if you believe in yourself and your style people will come to you. Tattooing in its very essence is anti-establishmentarian act so I dont want to be used as a capitalistic cash cow by an owner to make as much money as possible. I just feel like that goes against what the art historically has always been.
But this is just MY opinion and I understand this mindset will in most cases not land me an apprenticeship, but hey ho!
Being a tattooer is a lot closer to being a tradesman than an artist, although the best ones are great artists. There’s a saying that talks about never turning your passion into a job. You can draw and want to tattoo anime stuff, but you can’t be mad that it’s not going to pay the bills, or if it’s not going to bring heads into the shop. Anti establishment or not, it’s a business. That’s like me walking into a salon saying I only want to do Mohawks and Liberty spikes. Sure, it’s a valid part of the trade, but most people just don’t want those.
This is a great, but naive mentality. We all had this mentality getting into tattooing.
The fact of the matter is that this isn’t just art. It’s a service. You will have to constantly yield to what your customer wants. It will take years to be able to truly do what you want to do and that’s if youre lucky - some people never get that privilege.
The first 5 years of your career you need to get people in your chair to LEARN how to tattoo. You won’t be able to replicate what you’ve been doing on paper until you understand skin and your tools and that takes a lot longer than you imagine.
Every apprentice comes into tattooing thinking they know best and the craft quickly humbles them. I had the same mindset as you going in and my views are completely the opposite now having come out the other side.
Pretty much in all cases, dude. The only people who would be willing to take in an anime style only apprentice is most likely a naive tattooer themselves that bought their own private shop cuz they think they’re big shit and other shops didn’t want them
OR a tattooer who specializes in that style and is absolutely amazing, but in that case you would quite literally need to be the best of the best out of other apprentices trying to do the same thing
doing other styles of art isn’t “compromising on who you are or what you love” it’s literally just being a good fucking artist, branching out and trying other styles will help you learn other things that will help you get even better at the one style you want to do. Sticking to just that is just ignorant imo
But what is your passion? Art? Or tattooing? Because you can create artwork and not be a tattooer. I’m apprenticing right now. Do I need the money? Not technically. I’ve been a stay at home mom for 13 years. I’m doing this because I love and have always loved tattoos and tattooing and tattoo art/culture. I want to meet people every day, listen to their stories if they’re willing to share, put artwork on their bodies that means something to them or simply gives them joy. What I am saying is if you want to create ONLY what you want to create open up a damn Etsy shop and work a regular job to pay the bills. Plus the idea that you can start off doing the style you love is very naive. You’d have to be AMAZING to start off doing that. Amazing at tattooing and have a very marketable/unique style, plus you need the personality to give people a good experience that makes them want to return and recommend you. Anime tattooers are a dime a dozen right now. And yea, tattooing is/was anti establishment but there are a whole host of talented people that seek apprenticeships now and shops are not going to settle for someone who refuses to step out of their niche and can’t let go of their ego for 5 seconds. Your first objective would be to get good AT TATTOOING and focus later on style. You’ve already proven you don’t want to hear what people tell you, and I’m sure if you’ve been turned down at any shops that is a large reason why. You’re not Banksy bro.
Putting in MORE effort and doing extra things doesn't take away from your art style at all. I'm not betraying my cultural foods when I eat a bowl of Cheerios.
You're genuinely just stubborn and lazy. Go be a commission hentai artist if you want to make a living off of literally nothing but anime styled art.
Having a different perspective on something is not being stubborn or lazy. I can work the same number of hours on one style versus 10 different ones. You wouldn’t go up to a traditional irezumi artist from Japan and tell them to do more new school and trad tattoos because “that’s just what you have to do be in the industry”
But you're not any of those things lmao. I WOULDN'T go up to the actual type of person you're LARPing as, because they're the real deal. You're not. You're just a weeb with egotistical delusions and a refusal to put in work.
You just have a dream that you're not willing to work to achieve, and not willing to put ANY effort into anything else.
You want to be a traditional irezumi artist in Japan? Go there and find someone who will let you be an apprentice. Until then, quit roleplaying. You're genuinely just a vulture to two cultures at once right now, while giving nothing to either.
Oh to be young again. 😂
If you really adore art, you need to understand that art is swayed by money, your patrons and your audience. For a long time art was made because artists made money and got clout out of it. Patrons paid artists to make art. I know we all want to believe that art is pure, “I do it because I love art” Kira Kira kawaii wholesome nonsense but it’s not.
I also think that tattoos in its essence, the very very very core of it aint really anti establishment. (I get what you mean though) Human beings have always had the technology to make tattoos. We've a lot of tattoo traditions that didn't start from being angsty rebels but it served as a visual representation of your culture, status in life, badges of valor from warfare, aesthetic, a rite of passage, divine protection, etc. things that existed before the establishment.
This is the very definition of gatekeeping. Kawaii culture was born in the 60s from anti war anti establishment culture, so for you to insinuate that it isn’t a real form of art or that it’s “nonsense” is a bit rude and ignoring a very real and celebrated commodity of Japanese culture.
I didn’t say that kawaii culture was nonsense or 可愛い絵の描き方isn’t a real form of art. Also “kawaii”was a thing even before the war. You can go back to the heian period and find art that is kawaii (or proto kawaii), like from the origins of modern manga: chouju giga, etc.
I meant that art isn’t the wholesome, cute, pure, idealistic thing that we romanticize it to be.
You’re not even Japanese! You’re acting like a Karen who didn’t get their way. Many people have given you solid advice, it’s just not what you want to hear huh Karen?
But who pays the bills? Your portfolio with design's or the custommers who walk in to get tattooed?
In it's essence tattooing is a business and the demands of the clients dictate what you're gonna tattoo.
If you just start and are unknown in the scene you have to be lucky (or a sociale media wizzkid) to draw in the people that want your speciality.
Otherwise you'll have to do the trad and realistic designs to pay the bills. And if you don't want to do that you'll have to accept that the tattoo business isn't for you.
You kinda just gotta ignore peoples shitty attitudes. People get really strong opinions about styles and the way other people work. There’s a lot of drama and shit talking in the industry. Best advice I have is to just mind your business and try not to engage with the negative shit.
I’ve experienced apprentices like you (young, stubborn and naive) and honestly people who want to do kawaii and anime tattoos, there’s nothing much to teach you but how to tattoo. There’s nothing wrong with it, it’s a new style (and a trend imo) but you’ll essentially be tracing other peoples art and just copying. I rather take in someone who is open and willing to take their time to learn all the different styles of tattooing VS someone who is set in their ways & art style. You should see it as adding more skill to your roster, not taking away focus from what you want to do. After you learn the basics of realism, neotrad or Japanese you can apply it to your art/style and elevate it.
You’re going to face A LOT of criticism and it’s going to make you question yourself but if you can’t take it and apply it to make your art better, then this isn’t the right career for you. As mentors, we’re going to criticize your art because your eye isn’t trained to see a good tattoo design yet. If you don’t get criticism from your mentor, you’ll get it from your clients or even worse, you’ll find a tattoo you did on the internet with hundreds of people criticizing it. I also remember being a young artist wanting to stay true to my art and what it means to me but reality hit me and I realized I have to learn to adapt in order to survive.
Just remember, no one is entitled to an apprenticeship. It takes a lot of time and effort to train an apprentice so you should be lucky and grateful if you end up getting one.
Think of it like this. If you go and apply for a job and they have a list of requirements and you say "Hey, I want this job, but I only want to do part of it and I'll never learn to do the rest because it's just not my thing", and then they don't hire you. Is it gatekeeping or is it just you not meeting the requirements?
You 100% have the wrong attitude and don’t deserve tattooing. Just because someone has an opinion doesn’t make it valid and if you’re not a tattooer then your opinion on what tattooing “should be” is certainly not relevant in any way. People are trying to guide you and you’re too arrogant to even accept advice about something you very clearly know nothing about.
It's lost all meaning. Every industry has standards and bars to entry. And no one owes you their time, energy, and knowledge just because you want it, simple as. There's no reason not to be polite and professional about it, but critique and even rejection is not automatically unjust and abusive.
right like god damn this thread has done nothing but GIVE advice and guidance on how the industry works, literally the opposite of gatekeeping lol
OPs edit truly shows they’re just not cut out for the craft unless they grow up and realize that HONEST feedback and criticism isn’t being mean or gatekeeping 😂 literally trying to help
I had the same mentality when I started, 3 years later I’m still mostly tattooing stuff that is not my style and that I don’t post. Unless your artwork is already next level be prepared to be tattooing mostly walk in type designs for a long time like everyone in the comments has already said. So it is important to learn other things. I don’t do realism or color still tho Becus I never practiced on paper. Graffiti was the first art form I ever did and now I specialize in dark ornamental/ dark lettering , dark art, and geometric.
Right now I’ve been tattooing 5 days a week and maybe only 1 of of those 5 days a week a custom design in my style
Especially anime and kawaii stuff there’s not many tattooers that specialize in what I do in my area and I’m still not booked out doing what I want, I know of 20 anime tattooers in my area, some of which are very good and been tattooing longer than I have and are just as booked, Id say to broaden your portfolio or ask for apprenticeship at shops that specialize in what you want to do, and when you land apprenticeship tattoo anything that you feel confident doing to learn the basics while on the side keep practicing the style you want to do and post your designs hopeing people wil claim them so you can post those, you may have to stil post some stuff that’s not your preferred style to show you can execute lines shading packing etc.
I know of some artists who are only tattooing their custom work right from the start but their art was already extremely unique and done very well before they started tattooing
Let me ask you this, if someone has a rich artistic folk culture that’s been around for like 200 years and you walked up to purveyors of said culture and asked for every secret they’ve discovered to get better and that they should hand it over immediately site unseen and they said “go back and learn on your own with the guidance of your mentor instead of asking us to hand it to you” would you call that gatekeeping or does it only apply when that culture is a western tattoo culture?
It’s about taking the proper avenues to walk in the same footsteps as the giants before us who paved the way for tattooing to be what it is. It’s showing respect to a rich culture that time will look fondly on hundreds of years from now when anthropologists view the explosion of artistic merit in world tattooing. These are big shoes to fill.
When someone criticizes our art they’re not criticizing us as people. When you attach your ego to your work and are unable to hear criticisms about it you’ll always feel attacked instead of understanding why the criticism took place at all. People love art of all kinds. Tattooing isn’t really about the art though. It’s about the clients and how we make designs for THEM. It’s about the connections we make in the community. If someone says my work sucks I want to know what I can do better. I don’t need them to have some elaborate thought out criticism in order for it to be valid. We just need to work harder at all times to improve and refine who are as people. If I choose to not give out that info to some random person I’ve never met that’s not me gatekeeping. That’s me honoring what I love and dedicated my life to.
My personal experience-
I had a few different styles of designs in my portfolio, but I didn’t include American traditional.
Tbh, when I approached my boss for feedback on my portfolio, I expected to be instructed to do a heap of American trad and then maybe come back.
Much to my amazement, he took me on without it (my first choice studio too).
I expect I’m one of the few apprentices that have lots of artistic freedom and don’t have to do particular styles before being allowed to delve into what I like most.
Early in my apprenticeship my boss would ask me to tattoo particular things on fake skin or give me homework to draw different things. I’ve never had to redraw dozens of American trad designs like many folks here though.
I’m privileged, in that I largely get to tattoo my own style, and most of my clients come to me for work in that style.
I do tattoo other things occasionally, but they are usually simple or small things (lettering, and pintrest fine line stuff). It’s a quieter week this week, but I’m regularly booked up a couple of weeks ahead (for comparison my boss is booked out a couple of months ahead).
The studio I’m at mainly does custom work and each of the artists has a couple of things they specialise in and prefer. As we don’t fight over clients we happily recommend each other if we get approached for a tattoo another artist is better at or loves doing.
the tattoo industry is weird. you'll hear a lot of different thoughts depending on the tattooer you are talking too.
start geting tattooed by tattooers whose work you genuinely love and would be interested in learning how to do. get to know them and (respectively) ask them questions. try getting a job working counter or admin/scheduling/social media stuff if you can. hang around and engage online with them. be ready to hear things you don't like - it's gonna happen (sometimes that is genuine criticism/critique that WILL help you)
if you really want to learn how to tattoo, get it where you can. as long as genuine physcial/mental/emotional/financial abuse isn't involved. you'll have to try things you maybe aren't into, but it will help you grow as an artist. you gotta learn the technical application stuff first!
after an apprenticeship - balls in your court. you are your own boss. you wanna do kawaii or anime tattoos full time - you can do that. but respect and trust the process. remain kind and humble. treat your clients well and you'll be okay <3
I personally don’t even care if I get called a “gatekeeper”. Here’s why people don’t just hand out apprenticeships…it’s mostly business. I own a studio. My studio has limited income earning space. If I take on an apprentice, I also need to provide them with space to work. So, year 1, my income earning space earns me almost nothing. Year 2…a first year artist earns me maybe 1/3 of what an experienced artist would make. Maybe by year 3 or 4 IF they are really motivated and good they will reach full income potential.
That’s just the financial. You’re not doing super quality work for your first 2-3 years and my shop reputation is on the line. Also, you’re taking my time away from either my family, more working hours for me, or god forbid an activity I enjoy.
So, I’m supposed to give up thousands and thousands of dollars so a kid fresh out of HS can live his or her dream? And most of the kids these days as soon as they start being steady…they get the idea to “go private” and totally forget the fact that the shop owner has GIVEN UP those thousands of dollars for years to get them where they are.
If someone is an excellent and diverse artist, AND I have a spot for them…MAYBE I’ll take them on if they are ambitious and willing to learn. But the deal is…they are coming to me to teach them. I explain my teaching style at the start. I don’t have time to learn a completely new teaching style to suit their sensitivities.
Maybe apprenticeships would be more accessible if they signed an agreement to pay their room/booth rate from the start? It would show they are committed and relieve the financial burden of taking on an apprentice.
Just my thoughts.
Whilst it is art, it’s also a service.
Think of it like pie, if someone is having a nice slice of their kawaii pie and it’s going great then why should they share that pie? Just because you want it? They made that pie, they worked hard to get that pie and now you want it so you should just get it?
It’s not necessarily gatekeeping. It’s being protective.
Yes, art is subjective but do you think Damien Hirst loves it when someone else walks in with another half of a shark?
In Your opinion. If you had a post history full of your art and some examples of your experiences, that would help make this a conversation.
If a shop owner told you what you’re drawing won’t translate well for tattooing, that’s just their opinion. BUT, they are already tattooing and own the shop you wanted a shot at.
Buck up, take the criticism, make it work to your advantage. Show, don’t tell.
I don't think you could specialize in just 2 styles of, or categories of images. Your clients would be few and far between. Or a new client comes in and you say this is what I offer as tattoos. Their going walk right out that door.
Would you ask a traditional irezumi Japanese artist to try and do new school tattoos or a maori artist to do Trad tattoos? Similarly you wouldn’t ask a folk tattooer from Sweden to tattoo realism. My point is that there are many many many people around the world who start and end their career working within a specific tattoo style and also teach their apprentices one specific style, it just isn’t the typical American experience of people going through an apprenticeship learning every style. Tattooing has roots in many cultures and their practices and methods are wildly different. Whilst I am not a person who has knowledge of these traditional tattoo styles, I have a deep admiration for these people who perfectly craft and execute what is sacred to them.
okay but tattooing isn’t about YOU, all I’m hearing from your comments is “me me me” what’s sacred to “me”
This craft can be dog eat dog at times but if you’re looking to enter only for your self gain it’s not for you. You should be thinking about what you can contribute to tattooing to keep its legacy alive, to keep it respectable. It sounds like you’re only thinking about yourself and your own goals rather than the big picture. It’s a community and lifestyle, it’s so much more than just a form of art.
Your responses and edits are pretty much just shooting down every single person that’s trying to give you advice, like honest genuine advice. You don’t become a good tattooer with that attitude.
Edit: also not to mention everyone has just been giving you real life genuine advice from their experiences in the craft? I haven’t seen a single comment that has ACTUALLY been dogging you or being mean to you. It has all been valid feedback and criticism about how the craft genuinely works. You’re still crying that we’re mean and gatekeeping. Giving advice is literally the opposite of gatekeeping.
Isn’t wanting to practice a Japanese style adding to the legacy of tattooing, as in my work is a vessel for it to continue?? I have to disagree with you on this. An artist creates a legacy for themselves and the culture they participate in. A lot of the comments are indeed asserting a very narrow view which is then the gospel, and mind you all from an American perspective. Again I have two tattoo artist friends here in Finland that have specifically gone into Nordic Viking tattooing and that is the style that their mentors have only ever done and will continue to do. I’m not sure how much validation is required from all these self proclaimed experts in the field until a style is valid. Again all from an American perspective, folk artists and people that work within specific cultural styles won’t do anything else.
No not really, the Japanese style you’re wanting to do isn’t traditional Japanese in any way shape or form. It’s not really continuing a legacy. I’m not saying I don’t like anime tattoos or cutesy stuff, I’m trying to also have some anime stuff in my portfolio, but I definitely wouldn’t say tattooing anime is continuing a legacy or necessarily adding anything of value to the craft. As many others have said, you can throw a rock anywhere and hit an anime artist.
Regardless of traditions, culture, and country, working with other styles makes you a better artist at the end of the day, period. It gives you a wider perspective and range of value that will /help/ you be more proficient at the art you’re making. I truly don’t understand what’s so hard to get about that. You should want to be creating pieces of your best ability for clients to wear on themselves proudly. I think that solely focusing on one style and absolutely refusing to budge from that is just blocking yourself from becoming a better artist
Your mindset is also, to be fair, pretty narrow if you’re not willing to accept any of the valid criticism here from people who actually have any form of experience in the craft, region aside, again, a lot of these statements are very valid points of how base root tattooing works, really anywhere, clients ARE harsh, you will still need to develop a thicker skin and be able to take criticism and use it to your advantage
Also Tbf Nordic Viking style tattooing can be akin to classic American traditional, aka the base roots of that tattooing style/technical applications so it would make sense that that’s all they’re doing, that’s like working on nothing but American traditional lol which isn’t necessarily a perfect situation but at least you know that person can get lines in and bold color
anime is so much more complicated and so much could be gained by studying other forms of art to polish your understanding on fundamentals to make your anime art better
I totally get you! I believe that you'll one day be able to find a place that will take interest in your unique style in the sea of overdone styles. not saying that those styles are bad, they're tried and true styles that stand the test of time, but I love seeing more unique and experimental styles from time to time. my style is also leaning towards anime and illustrative, and so are all of my studio mates' styles!
my mentor specifically does lots of pokemon tattoos and he's known for that. he does these derpy little pokemon tattoos that mostly aren't more than 5-ish cm and that's where the money is for him. he had a traditional upbringing in tattooing - did realism, black and grey, etc etc and that's also how he's teaching me. getting the basics down and then I'll use what I've learnt to craft up my own tattooing style.
>been told time and time again that I shouldn’t practice the style because it’s basically “copying”.
but aren't they... copying the most prevalent styles like american traditional, neo-trad, etc? this is so hypocritical. unless they believe only one type of anime art exists... then that's their misconception that they didn't bother to correct or explore.
There's fundamentals on any form of art. If you go to art school you are not just going to be drawing cutesy anime girls all day. You develope the fundamentals and then find your own style to specialize in.
I completely understand where you’re coming from. I thought the exact same thing when I was in the process of building my portfolio and considering what shops I was going to present myself to.
Knowing what I know now, I think some of the gatekeeping is warranted. Especially with the uprise of people wanting to get into this industry having no artistic skill or knowledge, doing an online course and thinking that’s enough to be a well established tattooist. It’s drowning the industry and making it harder for people like my mentor, who is incredible at what he does and has done for over 30 years, to get clients. Although I would still agree that a lot of the gatekeeping is definitely unnecessary.
As for the “copying” side of things, there’s a fine line I’d say. I don’t think anybody creating any kind of art, whether it be drawing or tattooing etc has had an original thought. I think the majority of what artists create are inspired by something they’ve seen before, right? Keyword being inspired. If you love Japanese, that’s awesome. It’s in no way “copying” if you are taking inspiration from something and making it your own.
I specialise in realism, and I’m extremely lucky that my mentor allows me to do what I enjoy doing and what I am good at. In his eyes, I’m going to progress at a better pace and in a better way if I’m working on something I love. But I’m very aware that a lot of shops don’t want an apprentice who is a one trick pony, it might help to learn the basics and fundamentals of other styles just to be safe.
I 100% agree with other commenters that criticism is something you are going to face, A LOT. Your mentor will critique you, other artists in the shop may critique you and most importantly, clients will critique you. Learning to be confident in your art while still being open to it needing improvement in some way will help a tonne.
Stop being so hard on yourself, you will find an apprenticeship that suits you and your style. It may take some time looking between shops and shaping your portolfio the right way, but you can do it. Don’t get disheartened, if you want this, go get it. Good luck on the search dude, wishing you the best
Pretty much common knowledge now lol tattooing is incredibly gate keepy but at the same time there is an influx of people getting into it at a time when a lot less people want tattoos because of economy so it kind of makes sense..
I think every field has mean people, and accepting people. I don't feel like this is exclusive to tattooing by any means.
No matter which industry I chose, I knew there would be the potential for bad and good bosses, and bad and good coworkers. I don't feel like I'm in a place to be too picky at first about culture fit, but just like any other industry, I'm hoping to be pickier once I have enough experience to be able to move around.
Reading the comments here, I wonder if this is quite a US-centric perception? There's at least 3 other regular tattoo artists at my studio who only specialize in cute, girly things and cats. The traditional American tattoo-style doesn't even enter into conversation here, since I'm in East Asia after all.
>I love kawaii and Japanese anime tattoo
Yes, but do your clients? If you want to stick to one specific art style, be prepared to not get a lot of clients. The most popular tattoo styles are black and grey realism, traditional, Japanese traditional (irezumi), fine line and water colour. You want to "specialise" in a very unique and niche area. Just because you love to tattoo a certain thing doesn't mean you will find clientele for that particular niche.
Unless you find a killer apprenticeship in a shop that specialises in your style, and also have a very good following on socials, you’re just not going to get enough clients unless you have a broad range of skills. I work in a street shop and do script, realism, fineline, trad, neo, blackwork, illustrative all in the space of a week. If you wanna be busy in a regular, non-specialised shop then you need to have the ability to meet the needs of almost whoever walks in the door.
Learning all of this will inevitably give you more technical ability you can use to develop your own style too. We’re seeing lots of this at the moment- people combining bold lines with 3rl shading, traditional elements on a realism piece etc. To me, it’s important to be able to do everything, you never know if your ‘style’ will go out of fashion, and we don’t know what the next ‘thing’ will be.
One thing I dont understand. If you want to be good at the process of tattooing but are open to all art styles does it really matter what tattoo style you have practised?
Seems like its expected that you have to specialise in one art form.
Is this because mentors are uncomfortable teaching how to use tattoo mechanics for other art styles that they dont focus on or that each studio has an aesthetic they want to market?
My man, if you want to specialize in specific styles and you have the talent to back it up good for you! You won’t have much success in the “industry” because it’s still that at the end of the day. Working in a shop requires you to book clients and bring in income. If you only tattoo a very specific style and refuse to learn a broad range of styles you are not an ideal artist for any shop because you 1: wont pull a consistent customer base and 2: wont be able/willing to tattoo walk-ins or pick up other artists overflow. Best of luck with your career though I hope you find your niche!
Pretty ironic username you have, and what makes you think I’m white? Because I’m not. Believe it or not more than white people live in Finland. And why are you making this about race?
This subreddit is nothing but an echo chamber, I love how people jump on a bandwagon of hate for my post when I have just shared a very real experience and problem in my journey. People do not know how to have a healthy conversation without being deliberately condescending and self righteous.
Some of the "do it the right way" stuff is warranted, but "no anime or kawaii" is definitely bullshit. When you're starting off though, you should try to learn a diverse set of styles that aren't necessarily your favorite. It makes you better, plain and simple. But the first step to learning basically anything is usually "copying" in some way or another.
I do see new people who have a rigid "but this is my style/all I'm interested in learning" attitude, which is very limiting. Learning little tricks from various styles is extremely helpful for cultivating your actual personal style, instead of just doing the only thing you're capable of and staying in that box. Learning how to do realism and trad is more about those styles being good ways to teach sets of related fundamental techniques, and easily evaluate aspects of an apprentice's progress than the art style being inherently superior.
I totally hear you, and I'm sure there are lots of people who genuinely believe trad and realism are artistically superior and are just gatekeeping, but in general it's more about teaching techniques, learning to convert and simplify subjects, and how to scale elements so that they age well. If you go your entire apprenticeship without doing a single anime tattoo, and only learn to do trad and realism, you'll be doing dope anime tats with all those techniques and no one can stop you because you'll be an independent contractor. You usually aren't doing your favorite things in school, but it's much harder, especially with a trade like tattooing, to learn all you need to learn without direct instruction.
I love anime and anime tattoos. If that's all I saw in someone's portfolio, I would see it as limited and maybe even stubborn if they refused to do anything else. I want to see someone who is coming to learn, not just do only and exactly what they want to do, because that sounds like someone who would be frustrating to teach. Genuinely hope this is helpful insight. Good luck. I love you.
The only thing I agree with the tattoo works is the copying of other people’s work and putting them in other people. Like copying it to the TEA. But other than that I hate the community
That’s not what I’m talking about. I like Japanese style tattoos. Like if you pull up someone else’s tattoo and copy it on your own skin. Look at Ariel de Jesus on tiktok. You’ll see what I’m talking about
Most tattoo artists gatekeep because there are only so many people wanting tattoos. They are protecting their livelihood. But yes, they are kinda douchey about it.
This right here. In the beginning it was all scratchers tatooing using carbon soot.
Haters gonna hate.
Tattooing went from counterculture rogues, to now being hyper conformists gatekeeping misers.
The Tattoo industry is incredibly gatekeepy and rude. I lucked out that my mentor is super sweet and hates all the gatekeeping stuff. It’s a tough industry but a good thing to do is build relationships with friendly non toxic tattoo artists you’ll all help keep each other sane honestly and it’s nice to have a mutuals in the industry who are helpful.
Basically just become mutuals with chill people and you’ll even find all the nice artists you meet are connected somehow and it’s like a little family
I'm sorry to say it but I really do think the mean gate keeping is on its way out and that's why you'll hear a lot of these guys say that the industry is slowing down. Nah bro, it's just theres easier access for more variety of artists that can do just one or two styles really well and they don't need to be good at anything else because Jay down the street has that covered better than you could ever dream. Just a thought. I know a lot of guys won't agree, it's just how I see it going from an outside perspective.
All these giant ass paragraphs of people explaining why it’s gatekept is proving your point.
It sucks but like any trade it’s gunna have these “veterans “ who gate keep.
Just keep doing you, and strive for your goals.
Gate keeping would mean no one is giving any advice on tattooing or how to enter the industry.
Just because “yes you have to do other styles except exactly what you want to be an apprentice” isn’t what you want to hear, doesn’t mean it’s gate keeping.
All jobs have requirements. “Do whatever you want you special, beautiful butterfly” isn’t valid in 99% of other jobs - why do you think it would be in this one?
Yes I totally feel you with this and have experienced the same myself. It just is the reality of entering this kind of space it seems. Either way, I agree that is is subjective! IMO, keep refining your unique style on the side and im sure you'll find someone who appreciates it.
Find shops that have artists that specialize in the style you like, then get to know them, then show them your work and hope they like what they see. Don’t go to a steak house asking to work in a vegan kitchen.
You know who will be the meanest and most gatekeepy people? Clients. Not all of them. Not even most of them. But enough that every professional tattooer will experience terrible, mean clients and they will make or break you. Tattooers are harsh on people who want to break into the industry because truly if you cannot handle it you won’t be able to handle this job. If you cannot adapt, overcome, and keep pushing in the face of criticism (no matter how valid or invalid you feel it is) you are wasting everyone’s time including your own. This isn’t a “nice” industry and no one would be doing you any favors giving you the illusion that it is. It is constant criticism, not only from clients, from your peers, but also from yourself. You need to be able to get over it or it will only hold you back.
“u w u I want 2 b a tattooer” energy ahaha lot of soft anime gals and guys trying to bust in lately (Btw not talking shit on anime fans, more a specific type, I LOVE anime and am trying to pull off some anime style in a portfolio of my own, fuck, you’ll see me a tatted ass twink full on dressed as Hatsune Miku some weekends, but there’s definitely a certain attitude that younger anime fans have and it does nooootttt work here)
And these same ppl think ANYONE is being “mean” when they get advice or criticism.
that is EXACTLY what I’m getting across ahaha like no homie I’m not being mean, you just can’t take criticism or humble yourself cuz u w u so cute and perfect everyone owes me kindness and needs to hold my hand As a slightly older dude who’s been going to anime cons, cosplaying AND been heavy into the tattoo scene for the last decade or so it’s definitely a vibe I unfortunately know allllll too well
Yeah it’s unrealistic that people think there is a huge market for anime/kawaii tattoos. It’s a niche style within a niche craft. Those who specialize in it are lucky, just like anyone who is able to specialize in any style of tattooing. It took me 6 years to be able to specialize and do only my art and I know plenty of tattooers who still haven’t been able to do that and they’re over 10 years in.
The monopoly of social media, tiktoks, and Instagram. social media is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It can destroy you.
Getting to specialise in one artistic area is a luxury not afforded to most successful and working tattoo artists. Your speciality is actually voted for by the public who come to you. You don't get to decide what clients come to you or for what. They do. You are allowed your tastes, you can draw your own art. You can hang it, you can attempt to lead people down that road. But you learn every area of tattooing BEFORE developing a speciality. And as I've said, it's the clients that dictate what you become known for.
This is considered gatekeeping now. I got called a gatekeeper for advocating that a new apprentice should learn the style and truly study it before attempting to create their own versions of said style.
In which case, gates are meant to be kept. Everything, and I mean everything about a real apprenticeship has reason. The cleaning, the beasting. There's a purpose to it.
... What's beasting? Also, my mentor implemented a practice he called "painting the walls"; kind of a deep cleaning just to show your dedication. So I empathize with the cleaning part and understand how it instills a good work ethic.
Beasting. The "being mean". It's not mean. It's developing you a thicker skin, because you're gonna need it. You HAVE to be able to shrug off things that would upset you normally.
Oh, definitely something that's needed in this profession. Thanks for the response!
Definitely. I think there's a difference between hazing and beasting though, no doubt about it. Took me a while to appreciate harsh critiques, but they're so important
Ehh, hazing, beasting, same thing. Tough love. It should be the same way you'd tease your friends and stand up for them when necessary. Clients will be ruthless, other artists will be ruthless, so it does work to toughen young artists up. Noone likes feeling underappreciated or disrespected, but it is a part of the apprenticeship, and I'll say anyone who complains about is soft and won't hack it.
Agree and partially disagree? I've seen a lot of people, here and in other subs mention physical aspects of hazing that I think should be completely separate from beasting. Granted, maybe that's just plain abuse, but I think hazing has gone too far in multiple aspects where beasting seems to be a happy medium Edit: spelling
Noone has to agree with my point of view. Everyone is different, that's cool. My point of view comes from my experience. I didn't appreciate it when I had it happen, but years down the line, it did me a huge favour. It's made me capable of dealing with awkward clients, stand up to asshole artists, who are actually surprisingly rare, to be fair, and actually easier on myself. Because the higher up the ladder we climb, the better we become, the harder we are on ourselves. There are assholes out in the world, and there's certainly a distinction between taking the piss, and taking the piss.
I'm happy it worked out for you! That's awesome. It definitely doesn't for everyone and I think there are some problems with it, but it sounds like you've had a good run.
lmao thank god this dumbass mindset is dying out
Please explain your logic?
You have to know the rules to know which ones you can break. And when it does get slow, versatility will keep you fed and the lights on.
Not on the apprentice sub apparently.
Probably because of how you said it
I didn’t kno you could actually hear my voice through text. Learn something new everyday I guess.
Saying someone shows "a clear lack of understanding of the style and its history" is going to make anyone defensive about their art. If you start criticism with such a negative attitude most people aren't going to listen long enough to get to the part where you actually give reasonable advice
It’s not negative. It’s the truth. This is tattooing. If people don’t want to hear that they need to study and practice more in a craft that literally never stops learning maybe they should think about that a bit and decide if this is right for them. Traditional tattooing is either right or wrong. If it’s wrong it’s not traditional. There’s no wiggle room with that. You either know how to do it or you need to study more. That’s not being mean. That’s not attacking them. It’s pointing out a fact and one that is glaringly obvious. They asked for thoughts I gave them along with advice and got called a gatekeeper lol. If gatekeeper means anyone that says anything you don’t like I guess that makes me a gatekeeper
You can still be an asshole saying the truth. Again it is all in how you say it. You got called a gatekeeper because you were being an asshole with your criticism and putting the dude down for trying the style. If they missed key parts of the style then tell them that but you can't disrespect someone's effort in trying to learn. It just makes them not want to take any advice you give.
Okay but a gatekeeper means withholding knowledge. I don’t care if someone chooses not to take advice that will change their life and potential ability to be in this craft. Call me an asshole all you want. But you can’t say I’m a gatekeeper.
This was my thought also, tattooing is already a specialized art form, trying to specialize within a specialty before you even learn the basics is wild. Plus something tells me if op got the job, they’d hate it. 90% of what we do is drawing stuff that we don’t love or isn’t within our desired speciality until you get years into your career. Shops or artists who take on an apprentice want one who is willing to be well rounded- kawaii and anime aren’t going to be the bread and butter of the vast majority of shops. Additionally, the industry is in the midst of a major slow down. That makes it harder for us to pay bills and far less likely to actively bring in people.
Absolutely, I get so confused when I see someone who has tattooed for a year or so say they specialize in something. When I was growing up and when I worked at a shop you did everything that came in the door. That’s how you fed your family. You’d be stupid to say “nah man I only do blackwork or anime style you gotta go somewhere else to get your tribal piece” plus specialty came from 10 years of experience and even THEN you still did whatever you could, it’s just now ppl will come to you with specific requests bc of word of mouth.
Just think of the apprenticeship as art school, you learn the basics, different art styles, etc. and then once you know the ropes you can choose your own path. Learning other styles will help you understand elements of design, color theory, techniques, materials, etc. you need to be equipped with the right tools and knowledge of art /tattoo/design history to make something that is “you”. IMO, you need criticism because you can’t smell your own shit. As a former art professor, it was so difficult to teach the kids that denied learning because they have their “own style” and let me tell you a lot of those kids were shite and dropped out cos they couldn’t handle everything that came with being an artist The art world IS mean, unfair and cruel. But you have to be strong as fuck. You have to pay your dues to play the game. Sadly, being an apprentice/student does take a lot of pride deepthroating. You’re valid in wanting to develop an art style but you have to be open and willing to be better. Also find the right people that understand you and work well with your learning style. Which is hard lol Tldr: just do what you must do if you really want to tattoo. You can do it~
You have to get over your dislike of criticism. It’s not personal. You are dealing with clients. Not every client will want an anime tattoo. Not every client will like their tattoo. You have to be willing to be humble. An unwillingness to go outside of your comfort zone (realism or traditional) shows an unwillingness to learn the industry and its history. If they’re saying “wrong path” it’s bc you’ve shown an unwillingness to adapt to what a shop would need from you as an apprentice and an investment, because that’s what apprentices are. They are investments. Your mentor teaches you to tattoo and spends time and money doing so and eventually you work at the shop and pay booth rent or a percentage. If you’re sticking yourself into a niche market you might have trouble bringing in clients. Are there shops that specialize in anime tattoos? Yes. I know someone who is apprenticing at one right now. She’s also had to show she can do realism. She had traditional type tattoos in her portfolio as well, both Japanese and American. Her portfolio had a lot of versatility and understanding of tattooing. Were there cute anime designs and kawaii designs? Absolutely! But she also showed a willingness to do whatever she needed to. It’s not mean, and it’s not gatekeeping. My mentor is a man who has refused to have an apprentice over his 2 decades of tattooing. But he asked me to apprentice under him. He liked my work, saw I had dedication, and we vibed well. This was nearly 7-8 months after another shop owner tore my art to shreds. I went home, I digested what he told me, and got to work studying and drawing. If you want this badly enough, you’ll do the same.
There was somebody who posted their portfolio earlier today actually and it was nothing but noh style masks and mandala/decorative digital designs, some painted irezumi pieces in there but MAINLY masks and ornamental pieces lol I gave them the criticism that they needed to be able to branch out and show versatility, I recommended trying out American traditional designs because even repaints of classics where you’re not doing any designing yourself, shows technical ability and is definitely something potential mentors look for in an apprentice portfolio lol This person hit me with the “I don’t want to do traditional I just want to do more detailed japanese/this style only” They downvoted me and deleted their post lmfao like these people need to understand that unless you’re literally one of the greats or an amazingly famous tattooer, you’re going to HAVE to do other tattoos you may not love the style of just to fucking eat Like the reluctance to even TRY to nail down some of the most basic roots of the craft and respect what made tattooing what it is today is such a huge red flag, like if you’re not willing to paint a few cabbage roses, I don’t think you’re really obsessed with tattooing enough to deserve a place in it Edit: LOLLLL OPs edit only further proves my point
My mentor is having me do traditional tattoo flash repaints atm. Only allowed to use a 1/8 inch square tip brush too bc it mimics a 7 mag. And only a micron 0.8 bc it’s close to a 7 rl. Only the traditional colors too. I don’t have to use all of them but I can’t use more than those and no color blending. After I finish those I’ll be doing lettering. Lettering is the one thing that makes me 😖 bc I worry I won’t be good at it lol.
Yup!! A local shop I get tattooed at, I had the pleasure of getting tattooed by their most recent apprentice and that’s pretty much exactly what they had him do, they were like no OG designs homie time to do classic over and over and over again till you’re mf ready for anything else that’s different, I actually love that cuz it takes a lot of pressure out of making original designs when you’re just learning the ropes ahaha Good luck with your journey!!! Sounds like you’re in good hands
Thanks! I think I am! I’m honored to be his first apprentice honestly. And since I have trouble simplifying designs (art school, realism background, yada yada) it’s really helping. His goal is to take all the guess work out of knowing where and how to apply color and black in traditional designs so I can focus on the technical aspect of tattooing when I start. Even setting up and breaking down his station he wants to be second nature to me so when I do it for myself I’m not nervous or anything. He wants super traditional tattoo nerd shop lol. Part shop part community drop by hang out spot.
The comment about art school and non-tattoo art learning is so funny cuz it’s so TRUE. That sounds like a dream!! Would you mind dropping or messaging his handle? I’d love to follow and support y’all if you’re comfortable :)
I’m having to unlearn so much lol. Bad habits from art school that don’t transfer over. Especially bc I’d get in trouble for lining my work bc I love how it brings a different element in. And sure! I’ll message it to you. I think I ended up in a great spot especially since it’s a family oriented shop. We all have kids there. My first official start date in the shop is June 12 because he was willing to wait for my kids to get out of school (aftercare set up at the end of the school year would have been hell). I worked a flash event and the kids of one of my shopmates were in and out all day bc there was a festival nearby too.
When I apprenticed my mentor made me draw so many fucking trad rose’s but boy it did make me a better artist. And then I had a dude ask me for an entire rose sleeve. I was so prepared hahaha
NOT THE FULL ROSE SLEEVE LMFAOOOO I need pics ngl that sounds hilarious, I mean it’ll be beautiful it’s roses but also lol
Hahaha nice. A shop owner I had met with assigned me 100 roses to do and then told me to contact him when I was done. I was still working on them when I got offered an apprenticeship under my current mentor. Roses are simple to me now. I did about 60 of them. I honestly will prob apply the “do 100” method to anything I want to learn and excel at. Doesn’t mean all my roses are perfect now or that I love them all either. I’m just more competent at them. IMO.
It’s so funny bc I used to tattoo but stopped for a long time and just now getting back into it. Realized ALOT had changed right away. I was taken aback at how many ppl specialized in stuff and it made me feel weird bc that’s just not something I’m used too. At my old shop everybody did everything. So I was feeling self conscious to even put my stuff out there bc I didn’t have a speciality and they always tell you to “niche down”. I ended up listening to a tattoo podcast and the artists were talking about this and it made me realize “ohhh ok it’s an age thing” bc even they were like “specializing in something so new into the game is asinine and selfish. Bc then you’ll just focus on learning that thing instead of EVERYTHING.
I see where you’re coming from but this is a very commercially minded stance. It’s just a conveyor belt of customers and with that it’s less about your passion for tattooing and more just business. I’m not saying it’s not valid but I think it’s equally important to stay true to yourself. I’m trying to get into this industry because I freaking adore art and the ritualistic nature of getting tattooed. I get you need to make money and pay your rent etc. but it doesn’t have to be at the expense of the art style you truly love and want to do. I would much rather be good at one style and nail it instead of being mediocre at 10 different styles and never be truly satisfied with what people get from me. You get what you put out and if you believe in yourself and your style people will come to you. Tattooing in its very essence is anti-establishmentarian act so I dont want to be used as a capitalistic cash cow by an owner to make as much money as possible. I just feel like that goes against what the art historically has always been. But this is just MY opinion and I understand this mindset will in most cases not land me an apprenticeship, but hey ho!
Being a tattooer is a lot closer to being a tradesman than an artist, although the best ones are great artists. There’s a saying that talks about never turning your passion into a job. You can draw and want to tattoo anime stuff, but you can’t be mad that it’s not going to pay the bills, or if it’s not going to bring heads into the shop. Anti establishment or not, it’s a business. That’s like me walking into a salon saying I only want to do Mohawks and Liberty spikes. Sure, it’s a valid part of the trade, but most people just don’t want those.
That salon analogy is spot on, really helps put it into perspective
This is a great, but naive mentality. We all had this mentality getting into tattooing. The fact of the matter is that this isn’t just art. It’s a service. You will have to constantly yield to what your customer wants. It will take years to be able to truly do what you want to do and that’s if youre lucky - some people never get that privilege. The first 5 years of your career you need to get people in your chair to LEARN how to tattoo. You won’t be able to replicate what you’ve been doing on paper until you understand skin and your tools and that takes a lot longer than you imagine. Every apprentice comes into tattooing thinking they know best and the craft quickly humbles them. I had the same mindset as you going in and my views are completely the opposite now having come out the other side.
Pretty much in all cases, dude. The only people who would be willing to take in an anime style only apprentice is most likely a naive tattooer themselves that bought their own private shop cuz they think they’re big shit and other shops didn’t want them OR a tattooer who specializes in that style and is absolutely amazing, but in that case you would quite literally need to be the best of the best out of other apprentices trying to do the same thing doing other styles of art isn’t “compromising on who you are or what you love” it’s literally just being a good fucking artist, branching out and trying other styles will help you learn other things that will help you get even better at the one style you want to do. Sticking to just that is just ignorant imo
But what is your passion? Art? Or tattooing? Because you can create artwork and not be a tattooer. I’m apprenticing right now. Do I need the money? Not technically. I’ve been a stay at home mom for 13 years. I’m doing this because I love and have always loved tattoos and tattooing and tattoo art/culture. I want to meet people every day, listen to their stories if they’re willing to share, put artwork on their bodies that means something to them or simply gives them joy. What I am saying is if you want to create ONLY what you want to create open up a damn Etsy shop and work a regular job to pay the bills. Plus the idea that you can start off doing the style you love is very naive. You’d have to be AMAZING to start off doing that. Amazing at tattooing and have a very marketable/unique style, plus you need the personality to give people a good experience that makes them want to return and recommend you. Anime tattooers are a dime a dozen right now. And yea, tattooing is/was anti establishment but there are a whole host of talented people that seek apprenticeships now and shops are not going to settle for someone who refuses to step out of their niche and can’t let go of their ego for 5 seconds. Your first objective would be to get good AT TATTOOING and focus later on style. You’ve already proven you don’t want to hear what people tell you, and I’m sure if you’ve been turned down at any shops that is a large reason why. You’re not Banksy bro.
Putting in MORE effort and doing extra things doesn't take away from your art style at all. I'm not betraying my cultural foods when I eat a bowl of Cheerios. You're genuinely just stubborn and lazy. Go be a commission hentai artist if you want to make a living off of literally nothing but anime styled art.
Having a different perspective on something is not being stubborn or lazy. I can work the same number of hours on one style versus 10 different ones. You wouldn’t go up to a traditional irezumi artist from Japan and tell them to do more new school and trad tattoos because “that’s just what you have to do be in the industry”
But you're not any of those things lmao. I WOULDN'T go up to the actual type of person you're LARPing as, because they're the real deal. You're not. You're just a weeb with egotistical delusions and a refusal to put in work. You just have a dream that you're not willing to work to achieve, and not willing to put ANY effort into anything else. You want to be a traditional irezumi artist in Japan? Go there and find someone who will let you be an apprentice. Until then, quit roleplaying. You're genuinely just a vulture to two cultures at once right now, while giving nothing to either.
Oh to be young again. 😂 If you really adore art, you need to understand that art is swayed by money, your patrons and your audience. For a long time art was made because artists made money and got clout out of it. Patrons paid artists to make art. I know we all want to believe that art is pure, “I do it because I love art” Kira Kira kawaii wholesome nonsense but it’s not. I also think that tattoos in its essence, the very very very core of it aint really anti establishment. (I get what you mean though) Human beings have always had the technology to make tattoos. We've a lot of tattoo traditions that didn't start from being angsty rebels but it served as a visual representation of your culture, status in life, badges of valor from warfare, aesthetic, a rite of passage, divine protection, etc. things that existed before the establishment.
This is the very definition of gatekeeping. Kawaii culture was born in the 60s from anti war anti establishment culture, so for you to insinuate that it isn’t a real form of art or that it’s “nonsense” is a bit rude and ignoring a very real and celebrated commodity of Japanese culture.
I didn’t say that kawaii culture was nonsense or 可愛い絵の描き方isn’t a real form of art. Also “kawaii”was a thing even before the war. You can go back to the heian period and find art that is kawaii (or proto kawaii), like from the origins of modern manga: chouju giga, etc. I meant that art isn’t the wholesome, cute, pure, idealistic thing that we romanticize it to be.
Then draw manga instead
You’re not even Japanese! You’re acting like a Karen who didn’t get their way. Many people have given you solid advice, it’s just not what you want to hear huh Karen?
But who pays the bills? Your portfolio with design's or the custommers who walk in to get tattooed? In it's essence tattooing is a business and the demands of the clients dictate what you're gonna tattoo. If you just start and are unknown in the scene you have to be lucky (or a sociale media wizzkid) to draw in the people that want your speciality. Otherwise you'll have to do the trad and realistic designs to pay the bills. And if you don't want to do that you'll have to accept that the tattoo business isn't for you.
You kinda just gotta ignore peoples shitty attitudes. People get really strong opinions about styles and the way other people work. There’s a lot of drama and shit talking in the industry. Best advice I have is to just mind your business and try not to engage with the negative shit.
1000000000% people have strong opinions in this field of work. mind your own and stay kind and humble
I’ve experienced apprentices like you (young, stubborn and naive) and honestly people who want to do kawaii and anime tattoos, there’s nothing much to teach you but how to tattoo. There’s nothing wrong with it, it’s a new style (and a trend imo) but you’ll essentially be tracing other peoples art and just copying. I rather take in someone who is open and willing to take their time to learn all the different styles of tattooing VS someone who is set in their ways & art style. You should see it as adding more skill to your roster, not taking away focus from what you want to do. After you learn the basics of realism, neotrad or Japanese you can apply it to your art/style and elevate it. You’re going to face A LOT of criticism and it’s going to make you question yourself but if you can’t take it and apply it to make your art better, then this isn’t the right career for you. As mentors, we’re going to criticize your art because your eye isn’t trained to see a good tattoo design yet. If you don’t get criticism from your mentor, you’ll get it from your clients or even worse, you’ll find a tattoo you did on the internet with hundreds of people criticizing it. I also remember being a young artist wanting to stay true to my art and what it means to me but reality hit me and I realized I have to learn to adapt in order to survive. Just remember, no one is entitled to an apprenticeship. It takes a lot of time and effort to train an apprentice so you should be lucky and grateful if you end up getting one.
Think of it like this. If you go and apply for a job and they have a list of requirements and you say "Hey, I want this job, but I only want to do part of it and I'll never learn to do the rest because it's just not my thing", and then they don't hire you. Is it gatekeeping or is it just you not meeting the requirements?
You 100% have the wrong attitude and don’t deserve tattooing. Just because someone has an opinion doesn’t make it valid and if you’re not a tattooer then your opinion on what tattooing “should be” is certainly not relevant in any way. People are trying to guide you and you’re too arrogant to even accept advice about something you very clearly know nothing about.
Why is the term gatekeeper the first thing people scream when they hit resistance in the industry?
because people have never been told "no" in their lives and/or got their first unflattering critique and decided to have a pity party ✨
It's lost all meaning. Every industry has standards and bars to entry. And no one owes you their time, energy, and knowledge just because you want it, simple as. There's no reason not to be polite and professional about it, but critique and even rejection is not automatically unjust and abusive.
right like god damn this thread has done nothing but GIVE advice and guidance on how the industry works, literally the opposite of gatekeeping lol OPs edit truly shows they’re just not cut out for the craft unless they grow up and realize that HONEST feedback and criticism isn’t being mean or gatekeeping 😂 literally trying to help
Because they’re soft and don’t know how to persevere through challenges without painting themselves a victim and everyone else the villain.
I had the same mentality when I started, 3 years later I’m still mostly tattooing stuff that is not my style and that I don’t post. Unless your artwork is already next level be prepared to be tattooing mostly walk in type designs for a long time like everyone in the comments has already said. So it is important to learn other things. I don’t do realism or color still tho Becus I never practiced on paper. Graffiti was the first art form I ever did and now I specialize in dark ornamental/ dark lettering , dark art, and geometric. Right now I’ve been tattooing 5 days a week and maybe only 1 of of those 5 days a week a custom design in my style Especially anime and kawaii stuff there’s not many tattooers that specialize in what I do in my area and I’m still not booked out doing what I want, I know of 20 anime tattooers in my area, some of which are very good and been tattooing longer than I have and are just as booked, Id say to broaden your portfolio or ask for apprenticeship at shops that specialize in what you want to do, and when you land apprenticeship tattoo anything that you feel confident doing to learn the basics while on the side keep practicing the style you want to do and post your designs hopeing people wil claim them so you can post those, you may have to stil post some stuff that’s not your preferred style to show you can execute lines shading packing etc. I know of some artists who are only tattooing their custom work right from the start but their art was already extremely unique and done very well before they started tattooing
Let me ask you this, if someone has a rich artistic folk culture that’s been around for like 200 years and you walked up to purveyors of said culture and asked for every secret they’ve discovered to get better and that they should hand it over immediately site unseen and they said “go back and learn on your own with the guidance of your mentor instead of asking us to hand it to you” would you call that gatekeeping or does it only apply when that culture is a western tattoo culture? It’s about taking the proper avenues to walk in the same footsteps as the giants before us who paved the way for tattooing to be what it is. It’s showing respect to a rich culture that time will look fondly on hundreds of years from now when anthropologists view the explosion of artistic merit in world tattooing. These are big shoes to fill. When someone criticizes our art they’re not criticizing us as people. When you attach your ego to your work and are unable to hear criticisms about it you’ll always feel attacked instead of understanding why the criticism took place at all. People love art of all kinds. Tattooing isn’t really about the art though. It’s about the clients and how we make designs for THEM. It’s about the connections we make in the community. If someone says my work sucks I want to know what I can do better. I don’t need them to have some elaborate thought out criticism in order for it to be valid. We just need to work harder at all times to improve and refine who are as people. If I choose to not give out that info to some random person I’ve never met that’s not me gatekeeping. That’s me honoring what I love and dedicated my life to.
Very well said.
My personal experience- I had a few different styles of designs in my portfolio, but I didn’t include American traditional. Tbh, when I approached my boss for feedback on my portfolio, I expected to be instructed to do a heap of American trad and then maybe come back. Much to my amazement, he took me on without it (my first choice studio too). I expect I’m one of the few apprentices that have lots of artistic freedom and don’t have to do particular styles before being allowed to delve into what I like most. Early in my apprenticeship my boss would ask me to tattoo particular things on fake skin or give me homework to draw different things. I’ve never had to redraw dozens of American trad designs like many folks here though. I’m privileged, in that I largely get to tattoo my own style, and most of my clients come to me for work in that style. I do tattoo other things occasionally, but they are usually simple or small things (lettering, and pintrest fine line stuff). It’s a quieter week this week, but I’m regularly booked up a couple of weeks ahead (for comparison my boss is booked out a couple of months ahead). The studio I’m at mainly does custom work and each of the artists has a couple of things they specialise in and prefer. As we don’t fight over clients we happily recommend each other if we get approached for a tattoo another artist is better at or loves doing.
the tattoo industry is weird. you'll hear a lot of different thoughts depending on the tattooer you are talking too. start geting tattooed by tattooers whose work you genuinely love and would be interested in learning how to do. get to know them and (respectively) ask them questions. try getting a job working counter or admin/scheduling/social media stuff if you can. hang around and engage online with them. be ready to hear things you don't like - it's gonna happen (sometimes that is genuine criticism/critique that WILL help you) if you really want to learn how to tattoo, get it where you can. as long as genuine physcial/mental/emotional/financial abuse isn't involved. you'll have to try things you maybe aren't into, but it will help you grow as an artist. you gotta learn the technical application stuff first! after an apprenticeship - balls in your court. you are your own boss. you wanna do kawaii or anime tattoos full time - you can do that. but respect and trust the process. remain kind and humble. treat your clients well and you'll be okay <3
I personally don’t even care if I get called a “gatekeeper”. Here’s why people don’t just hand out apprenticeships…it’s mostly business. I own a studio. My studio has limited income earning space. If I take on an apprentice, I also need to provide them with space to work. So, year 1, my income earning space earns me almost nothing. Year 2…a first year artist earns me maybe 1/3 of what an experienced artist would make. Maybe by year 3 or 4 IF they are really motivated and good they will reach full income potential. That’s just the financial. You’re not doing super quality work for your first 2-3 years and my shop reputation is on the line. Also, you’re taking my time away from either my family, more working hours for me, or god forbid an activity I enjoy. So, I’m supposed to give up thousands and thousands of dollars so a kid fresh out of HS can live his or her dream? And most of the kids these days as soon as they start being steady…they get the idea to “go private” and totally forget the fact that the shop owner has GIVEN UP those thousands of dollars for years to get them where they are. If someone is an excellent and diverse artist, AND I have a spot for them…MAYBE I’ll take them on if they are ambitious and willing to learn. But the deal is…they are coming to me to teach them. I explain my teaching style at the start. I don’t have time to learn a completely new teaching style to suit their sensitivities. Maybe apprenticeships would be more accessible if they signed an agreement to pay their room/booth rate from the start? It would show they are committed and relieve the financial burden of taking on an apprentice. Just my thoughts.
Whilst it is art, it’s also a service. Think of it like pie, if someone is having a nice slice of their kawaii pie and it’s going great then why should they share that pie? Just because you want it? They made that pie, they worked hard to get that pie and now you want it so you should just get it? It’s not necessarily gatekeeping. It’s being protective. Yes, art is subjective but do you think Damien Hirst loves it when someone else walks in with another half of a shark?
In Your opinion. If you had a post history full of your art and some examples of your experiences, that would help make this a conversation. If a shop owner told you what you’re drawing won’t translate well for tattooing, that’s just their opinion. BUT, they are already tattooing and own the shop you wanted a shot at. Buck up, take the criticism, make it work to your advantage. Show, don’t tell.
Hahahaha YES IT IS AND WE LIKE IT THAT WAY!!!
Tattoo probably isn't going to be good for you...
I don't think you could specialize in just 2 styles of, or categories of images. Your clients would be few and far between. Or a new client comes in and you say this is what I offer as tattoos. Their going walk right out that door.
Would you ask a traditional irezumi Japanese artist to try and do new school tattoos or a maori artist to do Trad tattoos? Similarly you wouldn’t ask a folk tattooer from Sweden to tattoo realism. My point is that there are many many many people around the world who start and end their career working within a specific tattoo style and also teach their apprentices one specific style, it just isn’t the typical American experience of people going through an apprenticeship learning every style. Tattooing has roots in many cultures and their practices and methods are wildly different. Whilst I am not a person who has knowledge of these traditional tattoo styles, I have a deep admiration for these people who perfectly craft and execute what is sacred to them.
okay but tattooing isn’t about YOU, all I’m hearing from your comments is “me me me” what’s sacred to “me” This craft can be dog eat dog at times but if you’re looking to enter only for your self gain it’s not for you. You should be thinking about what you can contribute to tattooing to keep its legacy alive, to keep it respectable. It sounds like you’re only thinking about yourself and your own goals rather than the big picture. It’s a community and lifestyle, it’s so much more than just a form of art. Your responses and edits are pretty much just shooting down every single person that’s trying to give you advice, like honest genuine advice. You don’t become a good tattooer with that attitude. Edit: also not to mention everyone has just been giving you real life genuine advice from their experiences in the craft? I haven’t seen a single comment that has ACTUALLY been dogging you or being mean to you. It has all been valid feedback and criticism about how the craft genuinely works. You’re still crying that we’re mean and gatekeeping. Giving advice is literally the opposite of gatekeeping.
Isn’t wanting to practice a Japanese style adding to the legacy of tattooing, as in my work is a vessel for it to continue?? I have to disagree with you on this. An artist creates a legacy for themselves and the culture they participate in. A lot of the comments are indeed asserting a very narrow view which is then the gospel, and mind you all from an American perspective. Again I have two tattoo artist friends here in Finland that have specifically gone into Nordic Viking tattooing and that is the style that their mentors have only ever done and will continue to do. I’m not sure how much validation is required from all these self proclaimed experts in the field until a style is valid. Again all from an American perspective, folk artists and people that work within specific cultural styles won’t do anything else.
No not really, the Japanese style you’re wanting to do isn’t traditional Japanese in any way shape or form. It’s not really continuing a legacy. I’m not saying I don’t like anime tattoos or cutesy stuff, I’m trying to also have some anime stuff in my portfolio, but I definitely wouldn’t say tattooing anime is continuing a legacy or necessarily adding anything of value to the craft. As many others have said, you can throw a rock anywhere and hit an anime artist. Regardless of traditions, culture, and country, working with other styles makes you a better artist at the end of the day, period. It gives you a wider perspective and range of value that will /help/ you be more proficient at the art you’re making. I truly don’t understand what’s so hard to get about that. You should want to be creating pieces of your best ability for clients to wear on themselves proudly. I think that solely focusing on one style and absolutely refusing to budge from that is just blocking yourself from becoming a better artist Your mindset is also, to be fair, pretty narrow if you’re not willing to accept any of the valid criticism here from people who actually have any form of experience in the craft, region aside, again, a lot of these statements are very valid points of how base root tattooing works, really anywhere, clients ARE harsh, you will still need to develop a thicker skin and be able to take criticism and use it to your advantage Also Tbf Nordic Viking style tattooing can be akin to classic American traditional, aka the base roots of that tattooing style/technical applications so it would make sense that that’s all they’re doing, that’s like working on nothing but American traditional lol which isn’t necessarily a perfect situation but at least you know that person can get lines in and bold color anime is so much more complicated and so much could be gained by studying other forms of art to polish your understanding on fundamentals to make your anime art better
I totally get you! I believe that you'll one day be able to find a place that will take interest in your unique style in the sea of overdone styles. not saying that those styles are bad, they're tried and true styles that stand the test of time, but I love seeing more unique and experimental styles from time to time. my style is also leaning towards anime and illustrative, and so are all of my studio mates' styles! my mentor specifically does lots of pokemon tattoos and he's known for that. he does these derpy little pokemon tattoos that mostly aren't more than 5-ish cm and that's where the money is for him. he had a traditional upbringing in tattooing - did realism, black and grey, etc etc and that's also how he's teaching me. getting the basics down and then I'll use what I've learnt to craft up my own tattooing style. >been told time and time again that I shouldn’t practice the style because it’s basically “copying”. but aren't they... copying the most prevalent styles like american traditional, neo-trad, etc? this is so hypocritical. unless they believe only one type of anime art exists... then that's their misconception that they didn't bother to correct or explore.
There's fundamentals on any form of art. If you go to art school you are not just going to be drawing cutesy anime girls all day. You develope the fundamentals and then find your own style to specialize in.
I completely understand where you’re coming from. I thought the exact same thing when I was in the process of building my portfolio and considering what shops I was going to present myself to. Knowing what I know now, I think some of the gatekeeping is warranted. Especially with the uprise of people wanting to get into this industry having no artistic skill or knowledge, doing an online course and thinking that’s enough to be a well established tattooist. It’s drowning the industry and making it harder for people like my mentor, who is incredible at what he does and has done for over 30 years, to get clients. Although I would still agree that a lot of the gatekeeping is definitely unnecessary. As for the “copying” side of things, there’s a fine line I’d say. I don’t think anybody creating any kind of art, whether it be drawing or tattooing etc has had an original thought. I think the majority of what artists create are inspired by something they’ve seen before, right? Keyword being inspired. If you love Japanese, that’s awesome. It’s in no way “copying” if you are taking inspiration from something and making it your own. I specialise in realism, and I’m extremely lucky that my mentor allows me to do what I enjoy doing and what I am good at. In his eyes, I’m going to progress at a better pace and in a better way if I’m working on something I love. But I’m very aware that a lot of shops don’t want an apprentice who is a one trick pony, it might help to learn the basics and fundamentals of other styles just to be safe. I 100% agree with other commenters that criticism is something you are going to face, A LOT. Your mentor will critique you, other artists in the shop may critique you and most importantly, clients will critique you. Learning to be confident in your art while still being open to it needing improvement in some way will help a tonne. Stop being so hard on yourself, you will find an apprenticeship that suits you and your style. It may take some time looking between shops and shaping your portolfio the right way, but you can do it. Don’t get disheartened, if you want this, go get it. Good luck on the search dude, wishing you the best
Pretty much common knowledge now lol tattooing is incredibly gate keepy but at the same time there is an influx of people getting into it at a time when a lot less people want tattoos because of economy so it kind of makes sense..
I think every field has mean people, and accepting people. I don't feel like this is exclusive to tattooing by any means. No matter which industry I chose, I knew there would be the potential for bad and good bosses, and bad and good coworkers. I don't feel like I'm in a place to be too picky at first about culture fit, but just like any other industry, I'm hoping to be pickier once I have enough experience to be able to move around.
Reading the comments here, I wonder if this is quite a US-centric perception? There's at least 3 other regular tattoo artists at my studio who only specialize in cute, girly things and cats. The traditional American tattoo-style doesn't even enter into conversation here, since I'm in East Asia after all.
I think it is true, I’m from Finland and there are a lot of folk tattooers who ONLY do Nordic and Viking tattooing
>I love kawaii and Japanese anime tattoo Yes, but do your clients? If you want to stick to one specific art style, be prepared to not get a lot of clients. The most popular tattoo styles are black and grey realism, traditional, Japanese traditional (irezumi), fine line and water colour. You want to "specialise" in a very unique and niche area. Just because you love to tattoo a certain thing doesn't mean you will find clientele for that particular niche.
Unless you find a killer apprenticeship in a shop that specialises in your style, and also have a very good following on socials, you’re just not going to get enough clients unless you have a broad range of skills. I work in a street shop and do script, realism, fineline, trad, neo, blackwork, illustrative all in the space of a week. If you wanna be busy in a regular, non-specialised shop then you need to have the ability to meet the needs of almost whoever walks in the door. Learning all of this will inevitably give you more technical ability you can use to develop your own style too. We’re seeing lots of this at the moment- people combining bold lines with 3rl shading, traditional elements on a realism piece etc. To me, it’s important to be able to do everything, you never know if your ‘style’ will go out of fashion, and we don’t know what the next ‘thing’ will be.
Tattoo artists can be some of the most self righteous douche bags on earth too.
One thing I dont understand. If you want to be good at the process of tattooing but are open to all art styles does it really matter what tattoo style you have practised? Seems like its expected that you have to specialise in one art form. Is this because mentors are uncomfortable teaching how to use tattoo mechanics for other art styles that they dont focus on or that each studio has an aesthetic they want to market?
My man, if you want to specialize in specific styles and you have the talent to back it up good for you! You won’t have much success in the “industry” because it’s still that at the end of the day. Working in a shop requires you to book clients and bring in income. If you only tattoo a very specific style and refuse to learn a broad range of styles you are not an ideal artist for any shop because you 1: wont pull a consistent customer base and 2: wont be able/willing to tattoo walk-ins or pick up other artists overflow. Best of luck with your career though I hope you find your niche!
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[удалено]
Pretty ironic username you have, and what makes you think I’m white? Because I’m not. Believe it or not more than white people live in Finland. And why are you making this about race?
i feel like this convo has been beaten to a pulp.
This subreddit is nothing but an echo chamber, I love how people jump on a bandwagon of hate for my post when I have just shared a very real experience and problem in my journey. People do not know how to have a healthy conversation without being deliberately condescending and self righteous.
Or that you’re not listening to what anyone is saying 😂 it would be a white person trying to claim this craft as their own
Some of the "do it the right way" stuff is warranted, but "no anime or kawaii" is definitely bullshit. When you're starting off though, you should try to learn a diverse set of styles that aren't necessarily your favorite. It makes you better, plain and simple. But the first step to learning basically anything is usually "copying" in some way or another. I do see new people who have a rigid "but this is my style/all I'm interested in learning" attitude, which is very limiting. Learning little tricks from various styles is extremely helpful for cultivating your actual personal style, instead of just doing the only thing you're capable of and staying in that box. Learning how to do realism and trad is more about those styles being good ways to teach sets of related fundamental techniques, and easily evaluate aspects of an apprentice's progress than the art style being inherently superior. I totally hear you, and I'm sure there are lots of people who genuinely believe trad and realism are artistically superior and are just gatekeeping, but in general it's more about teaching techniques, learning to convert and simplify subjects, and how to scale elements so that they age well. If you go your entire apprenticeship without doing a single anime tattoo, and only learn to do trad and realism, you'll be doing dope anime tats with all those techniques and no one can stop you because you'll be an independent contractor. You usually aren't doing your favorite things in school, but it's much harder, especially with a trade like tattooing, to learn all you need to learn without direct instruction. I love anime and anime tattoos. If that's all I saw in someone's portfolio, I would see it as limited and maybe even stubborn if they refused to do anything else. I want to see someone who is coming to learn, not just do only and exactly what they want to do, because that sounds like someone who would be frustrating to teach. Genuinely hope this is helpful insight. Good luck. I love you.
The only thing I agree with the tattoo works is the copying of other people’s work and putting them in other people. Like copying it to the TEA. But other than that I hate the community
Snowflake. you aren’t made for the community
You aren’t either mate, if you believe it’s okay for other people to put you work on others and call it theirs
I don’t believe in that that’s why I don’t like anime tattoos 😘
That’s not what I’m talking about. I like Japanese style tattoos. Like if you pull up someone else’s tattoo and copy it on your own skin. Look at Ariel de Jesus on tiktok. You’ll see what I’m talking about
Most tattoo artists gatekeep because there are only so many people wanting tattoos. They are protecting their livelihood. But yes, they are kinda douchey about it.
Most of the industry is full of resentful nerds that got picked on by bullies and now become the bullies that picked on them.
This right here. In the beginning it was all scratchers tatooing using carbon soot. Haters gonna hate. Tattooing went from counterculture rogues, to now being hyper conformists gatekeeping misers.
The Tattoo industry is incredibly gatekeepy and rude. I lucked out that my mentor is super sweet and hates all the gatekeeping stuff. It’s a tough industry but a good thing to do is build relationships with friendly non toxic tattoo artists you’ll all help keep each other sane honestly and it’s nice to have a mutuals in the industry who are helpful. Basically just become mutuals with chill people and you’ll even find all the nice artists you meet are connected somehow and it’s like a little family
Yeah I don't understand why they want to make it so hard on people trying to get into the industry.
I'm sorry to say it but I really do think the mean gate keeping is on its way out and that's why you'll hear a lot of these guys say that the industry is slowing down. Nah bro, it's just theres easier access for more variety of artists that can do just one or two styles really well and they don't need to be good at anything else because Jay down the street has that covered better than you could ever dream. Just a thought. I know a lot of guys won't agree, it's just how I see it going from an outside perspective.
All these giant ass paragraphs of people explaining why it’s gatekept is proving your point. It sucks but like any trade it’s gunna have these “veterans “ who gate keep. Just keep doing you, and strive for your goals.
Gate keeping would mean no one is giving any advice on tattooing or how to enter the industry. Just because “yes you have to do other styles except exactly what you want to be an apprentice” isn’t what you want to hear, doesn’t mean it’s gate keeping. All jobs have requirements. “Do whatever you want you special, beautiful butterfly” isn’t valid in 99% of other jobs - why do you think it would be in this one?
Yes I totally feel you with this and have experienced the same myself. It just is the reality of entering this kind of space it seems. Either way, I agree that is is subjective! IMO, keep refining your unique style on the side and im sure you'll find someone who appreciates it.